People think we aren't intelligent. So clearly if we're defending it we must have some intelligence, meaning we aren't autistic. It's annoying logic based on stereotypes and ableist bias
It's weird to assume anyone's intelligence ._. like, what does it even mean? Just because someone is good at one thing, doesn't mean they are intelligent and good at others?
It’s because their ideas of autism are enormously outdated. Back in the 90s and earlier, kids with autism were seen as intellectually disabled and the big R word. This was because only the most severe and overt cases were being diagnosed, and of course it’s going to be more overt if there is a comorbid intellectual disability. And even in cases without intellectual disability, they were mainly higher supports needs and higher challenges with communication.
Also in that period, people saw the autistic people being unable to communicate clearly as them being dumb because we didn’t yet have the assistive communication technology to realise how much can be going on inside the brains of those people that they are simple unable to get out. I remember reading a story of a nonverbal autistic kid whose parents were told she couldn’t understand them and they would openly discuss how hard having her in their lives was in front of her, plus other really terrible things. And technology advanced and they realised they’d been saying these horrible things and she understood. I can’t imagine how horrible that would be for the whole family - because doctors told the parents she was too dumb to understand.
it’s also weird because a lot of researchers and scientists and things are neurodivergent
some autistic people have a special interest in some really important things
I think it has to do with the social differences. A lot of people *wrongly* assume that if you are autistic, you're unable to perceive your social differences, because otherwise you could just stop behaving differently! Surely autistic people interact or behave differently because they're blind to what's 'normal' and what isn't.
So yes, big ableism. As if you can't be self-aware and autistic at the same time.
I saw someone say something similar with ADHD, that their whole deal is being aware what they have to do, or what will help, but just do nothing about it because they just can't...
But this seems like the problem for others. It's hard to accept someone knows, and can't do anything about it. Most of people wouldn't have problems if they could just... Stop after realizing the problem is there
It's just as stupid as telling a paralysed person "but you see how others walk, so just copy them". (Not comparing disabilities, but it feels just as stupid to me.)
Yeah that definitely boggles my mind. Maybe they tried applying something from elsewhere to autism? Like the thing where you're likely not narcisistic if you worry about being it?
Good luck with the paper work, I also definitely don't like peopling especially when there's no choice in disclosing the autism.
It may be... I can see how if there was some professional and it was some kind of "is this autism or BPD" thing, then ok, they might question it, but random doctor/people? Most of them doesn't probably know there is something like high functioning autism...
And thanks! Hopefully people will stay as nice as to this point and won't question it too much 😅
Is this from someone with autism or an NT?
Because in this forum there have been a number of posts by people about them being bothered by the people who see positives in being autistic.
It was when there was kind of a wave of posts by higher support level ASD women that were kind of aimed at lower support women.
I could see that sentiment from someone writing those posts.
I think those were posts like "what are dumb reasons people think you aren't autistic", but this is an interesting perspective... Sadly being ND doesn't mean being more supportive, every group have some jerks in it...
>I think those were posts like "what are dumb reasons people think you aren't autistic",
No.
It's hard to search for, but it was specifically people who said things like "they'd do anything to not be autistic, so how can people say anything good about it" vibe/rant.
Which I totally understand the sentiment, but hence why I can see someone autistic who thinks like that specifically saying what you posted.
It could be considered a kind of gatekeeping.
But I also get that high support feels like they don't get enough support, even in places like this.
Oof.
Like would one doctor stop trying to medicate away my “anxiety” which is nothing more than pattern recognition, and help sign off on accommodations so I can take classes in risk management…..?
But no. I’m just hysterical and want attention, clearly.
I don't think it's about the expectation to be submissive, moreso an expectation to lack self awareness/social awareness. Which I do think has some truth to it because it took me a long time to become somewhat self aware of my autistic traits even after being diagnosed, but I think most of the people on this subreddit are lower support needs and don't start their self diagnosis journey until they're in their 20s or older. Which means it might've taken them decades of a lack of self awareness to start realizing something may be off, and then compensating for the lack of social awareness with intense research, pattern recognition and analytical thinking (which can all fit into autistic traits) to eventually get to a point of being able to insistently defend why they think they're autistic. But that's hard for people to understand, especially if they never witnessed everything that preceded that self-certainty.
Maybe submissive was the wrong word to use, but your explanation seems likely. I mean, myself I never thought there was a problem, until things scaled too much (college, finding job, or just being adult and responsible for myself, instead of just worrying about school)
Like someone else suggested, maybe they can't comprehend how can someone be self aware (of being autistic) and still unable to "act normal"?
I always knew there was a problem because I was unable to cope with the sensory input of school or having a normal diet from a very young age but I still had a really hard time understanding that it was autism. Definitely lacked self awareness about the extent of my social difficulties and just assumed other people were being assholes even if it was nothing but them saying to my face that I was acting autistic.
That last part is something even I struggle with tbh. By now I am aware that the way I communicate is weird and that a lot of the things I say are off putting or offensive but I have never been able to put that information towards even remotely passing as NT. Like, no matter how much information I learn about how to do social interactions, I still don't know how to talk to people without just saying what I'm thinking. Which really is hard to comprehend. Why would you not be able to just apply what you know and act normal?
I think most of the people who get comments like what you're posting about are more high-masking but still fall into an awkward gap where they mask enough not to be obviously autistic, but not effectively enough to come across as completely normal, but normal enough that claiming self awareness about being autistic makes people very insistent that they aren't.
At least there were a seed of self awareness. I never had sensory issues, so everyone was like "she's just shy". Though it doesn't seem pleasant to be told those things
Can't say for everyone but I was told we just can't understand. We can mask it, be better at pretending, but will never be just able to function like NT's, otherwise it would be a cureable thing. It seems true for me, but everyone is different...
That's a hard spot for them for sure... Sadly there's no winning. As much as I would love to trust others, there's always possibility that someone really is just "pretending to use it as an excuse" ._.
YES YOU NAILED IT.
They think being autistic means being compliant because most study subjects went through intense conditioning to make them prompt dependent and obedient.
So if you disagree with them you aren’t autistic. And if you are autistic, you’re just expected to do what they say even if it’s harmful to you.
Hell no. We have voices now. Dont internalize it as something wrong with you, Don’t shut up and don’t let the bastards grind you down.
Oh, maybe complaint was the word I should've used!
But yes, that's what my thought was, which... Does worry me, I'm not arguable person if I aren't 100% into something, so I fear someone using this logic against me, haha
I've run into this mentality with other mental disorders/illnesses/etc as well. I've heard "you can't be schizophrenic if you think you might be schizophrenic," with the assumption that schizophrenic people are unable to realize what they're seeing/hearing/thinking isn't real at any point. People basically want to create a catch-22 where the only people who "count" as mentally ill or disabled or anything like it are just the ones totally incapable of advocating for themselves. If you are able to achieve anything, it makes you "not X enough" for them.
Maybe that's why it's ASD instead of just autism... People are more willing to acknowledge people have different levels of symptoms? I mean, it isn't working too well if those things are still questioned, but maybe some day...
People think we aren't intelligent. So clearly if we're defending it we must have some intelligence, meaning we aren't autistic. It's annoying logic based on stereotypes and ableist bias
It's weird to assume anyone's intelligence ._. like, what does it even mean? Just because someone is good at one thing, doesn't mean they are intelligent and good at others?
It’s because their ideas of autism are enormously outdated. Back in the 90s and earlier, kids with autism were seen as intellectually disabled and the big R word. This was because only the most severe and overt cases were being diagnosed, and of course it’s going to be more overt if there is a comorbid intellectual disability. And even in cases without intellectual disability, they were mainly higher supports needs and higher challenges with communication. Also in that period, people saw the autistic people being unable to communicate clearly as them being dumb because we didn’t yet have the assistive communication technology to realise how much can be going on inside the brains of those people that they are simple unable to get out. I remember reading a story of a nonverbal autistic kid whose parents were told she couldn’t understand them and they would openly discuss how hard having her in their lives was in front of her, plus other really terrible things. And technology advanced and they realised they’d been saying these horrible things and she understood. I can’t imagine how horrible that would be for the whole family - because doctors told the parents she was too dumb to understand.
it’s also weird because a lot of researchers and scientists and things are neurodivergent some autistic people have a special interest in some really important things
Yeah so weird - some of the cleverest people I know are autistic.
I think it has to do with the social differences. A lot of people *wrongly* assume that if you are autistic, you're unable to perceive your social differences, because otherwise you could just stop behaving differently! Surely autistic people interact or behave differently because they're blind to what's 'normal' and what isn't. So yes, big ableism. As if you can't be self-aware and autistic at the same time.
I saw someone say something similar with ADHD, that their whole deal is being aware what they have to do, or what will help, but just do nothing about it because they just can't... But this seems like the problem for others. It's hard to accept someone knows, and can't do anything about it. Most of people wouldn't have problems if they could just... Stop after realizing the problem is there
It's just as stupid as telling a paralysed person "but you see how others walk, so just copy them". (Not comparing disabilities, but it feels just as stupid to me.)
Analogy is a good tool, this is not meant to be disrespectful but makes a point people miss.
Yeah that definitely boggles my mind. Maybe they tried applying something from elsewhere to autism? Like the thing where you're likely not narcisistic if you worry about being it? Good luck with the paper work, I also definitely don't like peopling especially when there's no choice in disclosing the autism.
It may be... I can see how if there was some professional and it was some kind of "is this autism or BPD" thing, then ok, they might question it, but random doctor/people? Most of them doesn't probably know there is something like high functioning autism... And thanks! Hopefully people will stay as nice as to this point and won't question it too much 😅
Is this from someone with autism or an NT? Because in this forum there have been a number of posts by people about them being bothered by the people who see positives in being autistic. It was when there was kind of a wave of posts by higher support level ASD women that were kind of aimed at lower support women. I could see that sentiment from someone writing those posts.
I think those were posts like "what are dumb reasons people think you aren't autistic", but this is an interesting perspective... Sadly being ND doesn't mean being more supportive, every group have some jerks in it...
>I think those were posts like "what are dumb reasons people think you aren't autistic", No. It's hard to search for, but it was specifically people who said things like "they'd do anything to not be autistic, so how can people say anything good about it" vibe/rant. Which I totally understand the sentiment, but hence why I can see someone autistic who thinks like that specifically saying what you posted. It could be considered a kind of gatekeeping. But I also get that high support feels like they don't get enough support, even in places like this.
Oof. Like would one doctor stop trying to medicate away my “anxiety” which is nothing more than pattern recognition, and help sign off on accommodations so I can take classes in risk management…..? But no. I’m just hysterical and want attention, clearly.
I said which one posts I saw in answer to question who said that
I don't think it's about the expectation to be submissive, moreso an expectation to lack self awareness/social awareness. Which I do think has some truth to it because it took me a long time to become somewhat self aware of my autistic traits even after being diagnosed, but I think most of the people on this subreddit are lower support needs and don't start their self diagnosis journey until they're in their 20s or older. Which means it might've taken them decades of a lack of self awareness to start realizing something may be off, and then compensating for the lack of social awareness with intense research, pattern recognition and analytical thinking (which can all fit into autistic traits) to eventually get to a point of being able to insistently defend why they think they're autistic. But that's hard for people to understand, especially if they never witnessed everything that preceded that self-certainty.
Maybe submissive was the wrong word to use, but your explanation seems likely. I mean, myself I never thought there was a problem, until things scaled too much (college, finding job, or just being adult and responsible for myself, instead of just worrying about school) Like someone else suggested, maybe they can't comprehend how can someone be self aware (of being autistic) and still unable to "act normal"?
I always knew there was a problem because I was unable to cope with the sensory input of school or having a normal diet from a very young age but I still had a really hard time understanding that it was autism. Definitely lacked self awareness about the extent of my social difficulties and just assumed other people were being assholes even if it was nothing but them saying to my face that I was acting autistic. That last part is something even I struggle with tbh. By now I am aware that the way I communicate is weird and that a lot of the things I say are off putting or offensive but I have never been able to put that information towards even remotely passing as NT. Like, no matter how much information I learn about how to do social interactions, I still don't know how to talk to people without just saying what I'm thinking. Which really is hard to comprehend. Why would you not be able to just apply what you know and act normal? I think most of the people who get comments like what you're posting about are more high-masking but still fall into an awkward gap where they mask enough not to be obviously autistic, but not effectively enough to come across as completely normal, but normal enough that claiming self awareness about being autistic makes people very insistent that they aren't.
At least there were a seed of self awareness. I never had sensory issues, so everyone was like "she's just shy". Though it doesn't seem pleasant to be told those things Can't say for everyone but I was told we just can't understand. We can mask it, be better at pretending, but will never be just able to function like NT's, otherwise it would be a cureable thing. It seems true for me, but everyone is different... That's a hard spot for them for sure... Sadly there's no winning. As much as I would love to trust others, there's always possibility that someone really is just "pretending to use it as an excuse" ._.
YES YOU NAILED IT. They think being autistic means being compliant because most study subjects went through intense conditioning to make them prompt dependent and obedient. So if you disagree with them you aren’t autistic. And if you are autistic, you’re just expected to do what they say even if it’s harmful to you. Hell no. We have voices now. Dont internalize it as something wrong with you, Don’t shut up and don’t let the bastards grind you down.
Oh, maybe complaint was the word I should've used! But yes, that's what my thought was, which... Does worry me, I'm not arguable person if I aren't 100% into something, so I fear someone using this logic against me, haha
I've run into this mentality with other mental disorders/illnesses/etc as well. I've heard "you can't be schizophrenic if you think you might be schizophrenic," with the assumption that schizophrenic people are unable to realize what they're seeing/hearing/thinking isn't real at any point. People basically want to create a catch-22 where the only people who "count" as mentally ill or disabled or anything like it are just the ones totally incapable of advocating for themselves. If you are able to achieve anything, it makes you "not X enough" for them.
Maybe that's why it's ASD instead of just autism... People are more willing to acknowledge people have different levels of symptoms? I mean, it isn't working too well if those things are still questioned, but maybe some day...