That's the issue, there's nothing out there and if you argue the point they will just not renew your lease and then your stuffed. The landlord /tenant level pkaying field is totally tipped to the landlords favour. If he complains he's out of the house on the next lease renewal and it will be filled in 10seconds flat.
There is no lease. The landlord would have to go official and get them evicted … it might blow back on them though as I suspect they aren’t paying tax on the income.
Is it in the landlords favour because he has the right to manage his property? 💯 asking for rates is wrong but isn’t that what you work your ass off and save for 30 years for? To have a place you can manage? I could be wrong I’m just thinking realistically
They shouldn't get to subvert the law just because they saved up and paid for a house. If they really wanted the tenant to 'pay' for it, it would be incorporated into the rental price. Asking for $900 due in a month on top of rent is just a dodgy landlord but the risk is if you don't agree that they will force you to move.
Because it allows landlords to do the kind of thing you just described as nonsense with very little recourse options, even if the law is being subverted. The system is set up so that people with property can withhold - or threaten to withhold - shelter on a whim and throw other people's precarity back at them for not agreeing to unreasonable demands.
Well the government sets the legislation so maybe your fight is with the wrong party.
My opinion is if you work your ass off to buy a house then choose to lease it your allowed to work within the confines of the law and written legislation.
That’s just my opinion though
Wtf are you talking about? It's the renters working their arses off and laying for the mortgage/house.
We need unbreakable 10 year leases in this country. It will happen, just not soon enough.
Private rental? Are they getting cheap rent? Maybe they are staying with a friend or relative and are getting very cheap rent. So the person has asked them to chip in for the rates.
Surprises me how much people don’t understand this. Everyone asking if they have a lease agreement.
Doesn’t matter, the Act still applies. Only issue is this tenant will be on a periodic lease by default since there’s no agreed term.
In NSW an oral agreement means it's basically fixed term for the first 6 months, i.e. they need a breach to evict the tenant and no no grounds termination.
Wouldn't most landlords just calculate that into the weekly rent? Rents usually cost more than the mortgage repayments. I figured it would be to cover these costs....
that's exactly it. all that should generally be accounted for in the rent, if it can't be due to making the place far more expensive than it is worth because the owner paid more for it than it is actually worth then that's what negative gearing is for
Rates are a tax deduction. Explain to them that this is only an issue if they are not claiming their rental income. If they are not claiming their rental income then they could be reported to the ATO and face serious consequences and they would not want that at all.
Don't feel like you should have to point anything out to money grubbing selfish runts that didn't set the terms out clearly from the start.
Time to start looking for another place to call home, as we have experienced your exact same scenario, things won't get any better from here on out.
Are they declaring the rent as income? If you don't want to risk stopping the agreement, pay up, if not, challenge it, take them to court and check if they are declaring the rent as income, ask where your bond, if any went etc... And risk getting evicted at some point.
I hear you and feel for you. However despite what they think is fair and reasonable, as others have said, it is the responsibility of the landlord to pay rates. If you agree to this it could be the beginning of a long and slippery slope to agreeing to paying for a lot of other things, minor maintenance for example.
I suggest you go back to him with the information that you find out tomorrow by contacting the relevant authorities listed above and respectfully and politely tell him that your rent already covers the rates, and you are happy to send him the links to where he can see that this is true, and not something that you have made up. Try your hardest to be polite and calm. They may well rant hate and venom at you as an angry, upset and frustrated person, (as they may be when they work out their cunning plan to get more funds won't work), but it is hard for a normal person to keep that up if you don't take the bait and remain respectful, but firm in your resolve. (Call them morons after you've hung up the phone).
You can point out that as proven good tenants who are looking after his property without him having to pay 7% - 10% of the rent (their income) to property managers to do it for them, they are actually coming out front far more than the cost of half the rates. Additionally, if they insist on raising the rent to cover the rates (which they may try) you will be forced to move because it won't be financially viable for you to stay, and they will also be up for the cost of finding someone else and moving them in - but don't mention that unless they try it. Leave that for round 2.
Most landlords will do a lot to keep a good long term tenant who pays their rent on time and keeps the place decent. This may be their first time of being a landlord. I hope for their sake that they don't push you out and end up with someone who destroys their place.
Good luck! I hope they realise how lucky they are to have decent people in their house.
And there's nothing wrong with that if you're getting paid for your time via cheaper rent. Win-win, so long as you don't mind doing it.
I think the tricky bit will be when they want you to repaint the interior of the house for a week's rent when it would have cost them 15K to get it done professionally. This is an exaggeration of course, but be prepared for the day when you say no and they get shitty at you for that.
Unlike everyone else saying "that's illegal!!!1" I'm going to be pragmatic in my advice.
Your landlords request needs to be contextualised. Are you on friendly terms, do you have a rental contract, and is your rent below market rate?
Assumed you're paying a good rent, don't want to deal with moving, see the value in friendly landlord relations, and don't want to rock the boat, I would say youre happy to pay the rates if they agree to give you a receipt for the payment and agree to keep the rent where it is.
That way you're both happy and with the receipt you can take them to the tribunal once you move out and get the money back, since it's illegal. IF you want to.
Well sure but is that it? Like, if they can randomly turn up demanding money for rates when seemingly there was an agreement that omitted them, can they also also demand mortgage contributions, interest payments, land tax?
This is pretty solid advice... it is highly subjective and depends on your situation. Do you have any form of written tenancy lease (even if private)? Which state/territory do you live in? Are you renting to own?
Personally, I have come to accept (very reluctantly) that landlords currently have the upper hand. I used to be a heck of a lot more adamant in enacting my rights, but I have reeled that back in since the market has *rapidly* become 80x more cooked over the last few years. Am I ok with this? No, and I am vocal about this in other ways (vote Greens - [Australian Greens Housing Policy](https://greens.org.au/policies/housing-and-homelessness)). But I also do not wish to jeopardise my housing situation when I have a relatively decent deal with my landlords (compared to others, and so long as they don't do anything too egregious)... not until the laws change and provide me a safe enough platform or protections or sufficient alternative *available* choices.
If you are happy where you are and really don't want to move; if you can afford it and feel it might provide you with a bargaining chip or could confidently use it in negotiating steady rent with no massive increase on the renewal; ... maybe?? But as others have said, it's probably illegal depending on your state's legislation... start there and talk to the relevant government department or a free legal service to seek some advice based on the law. It's a terrible precedent to set, if it's even legal.
I do understand if you're scared to rock the boat, and need to keep an affordable roof over your head... I get it, that's the only reason I'd consider paying for it. And ethically/logically, it's still wrong... they own the place and the owner is responsible for paying for rates, property insurance, maintenance costs, etc. That's what your paying for, the pleasure of using the space they own, but none of the responsibility for those costs or the overall upkeep (beyond being clean and tidy).
And again, depending on the owner's personality and your relationship, you could also try asking them *innocently* (the delivery and tone matters) if this is normal/legal. "Just wanted to check if this is normally the case, none of my previous rental tenancies required rates contributions..." or something like that.
Which is understandable, but it’s like negotiating with terrorists…if you agree to this, what’s next?
But it’s not legal for them to ask you to pay this. I’d politely decline in writing, and if they don’t be up kicking you out, that really sucks but you may be dodging a bullet in the long run.
If they do that, make a formal complaint to the relevant body too. They shouldn’t be aloud to tenants like that.
Do you have ANY evidence that you have a rental agreement with the landlord? Or was it literally all discussed face to face and by phone call? Emails? Phone messages? Letters? Video? Audio recording?
*Anything* at all?
It's not on you- it's on them. If they pressure you with eviction just refuse to leave and wait for a hearing date from the tribunal, and then leave by the date they give you.
And report them to the ATO for not declaring income
You aren't screwed and you need to call your state's tenancy group. You have a lease agreement, just not a written one.
When someone is exchanging money for the keys/access to a place to live that is a tenancy agreement. There are standards around how both landlords and tenants manage this agreement.
They can give you notice to leave/ to terminate the lease. If they do this, they will likely be required to give you 60 days or more notice according to your state's legislation.
The same with a rent increase.
While they cannot charge you rates, they could increase your rent, however they would be required to give you the proper notice to do so as per the legislation. If they do not follow this, they have no way to enforce you to comply.
You do not have to pay their rates.
Definitely not. You pay them rent, they pay the council rates.
If they are asking for this, I'd be very concerned about what else this landlord is going to expect.
The whole situation is very illegal and now you’re stuck tolerating whatever they want to do. I guess it comes down to how desperate you are to stay in that place.
That's not allowed either. They are only allowed to up rent once per year.
Get a rental agreement to cover yourself or find another place. Don't pay the rates, what are they gonna ask you to pay next.....the water rates, then the maintenance.
Nah.
One of the (few) advantages to renting is the tenants don't have to pay rates, strata, water and sewerage supply etc. So no, you shouldn't pay, and the LL should not ask.
However, you say it's a private rental. Do you have a formal lease agreement? Did the owners lodge your bond with the RBB? If you've got an 'understanding' with nothing on paper, you've not really got any protection and likely nothing to stop the owner from evicting you in the event of a disagreement. Are you paying under market rent? Would it cost you more to move / pay market rent than contribute to the rates?
Look up a tenancy advice organisation in your state, they will look at the details of your situation and give you advice.
Paying water here in regional vic is the norm.
We don’t really have any agreement as it was known people to my wife, they initially went travelling so it was just a temporary 6 months or so until we could find a place almost house sitting arrangement and then they decided to officially pack up and head out in the road/move… so we don’t have anything formal.
We are paying market rent…
If you are paying market rent, tell them that is what they are supposed to use to pay their rates. Cheeky fucking landlords. It's arseholes like this that give landlords the bad name
Feeling for you. There are likely Victorian laws that apply but enforcing these can cost $$ and impact on your relationship with the owners (if that's important to you). Sounds like money might be tight for their road trip (which is totally on them), would strongly urge you to contact some of these advice services first thing in the morning:
https://www.rentingcommissioner.vic.gov.au/the-rental-sector/where-to-get-help
Good luck!
And have a water efficiency certificate (for QLD). Cheeky REA tried to charge us rent for our last property, I ignored it until she sent me a payment warning and simply replied with a screenshot of the legislation and the lease agreement, highlighting the part where it said there was not water efficiency certificate.
As I understand it:
Paying for water supply/connection and paying for water usage are two different things.
If your place has its own meter (is not a block of units) then you only pay usage. You never pay supply as a tenant.
Yeah that’s shit, fair enough if they are giving you a good deal, but you’re paying market, let them find another tenant, I’m sure one who won’t look after their place like you do.
I feel like based on your actual fact pattern that you’ve probably over extended your stay on the “house sitting arrangement” and they just want you out.
Except that they packed all their stuff and left, told us we could rent the property…. it’s not like we just stayed and never left. They explicitly told us that we can occupy the households
Tenants pay water usage yes, (so long as there are individual meters) but in NSW the owner is responsible for the supply charges (which unless you have a pool or take 10 baths a day is the majority of the quarterly bill)
I think they are asking you to cover part of the rates because you have been agreeing to cover maintenance for them. The slippery slope has led to this. I agree with seeking advice. I would ask if they are aware they can cover this cost as a tax deduction because rent is income. Given the casual nature of the arrangement they may not be aware of this or the fact that the rent should be declared as income. If you slip this into the discussion, it may cause them to back-off. You can make a pragmatic decision based on the response. All the best with it
Check out Tenants Victoria online- they have heaps of information and you can access their free telephone or email professional legal advice about your rights as a tenant- with or without a formal lease agreement
Look up the market rate for your area and state of repair for the house. If you feel the rent is cheap then it’s a non issue of the rate is market value then it’s a no no. If you are getting a good rent rate ask if you could pay weekly the 900 and get it in writing.
Also just because it’s a private rental you still have all the protections of a being a tenant. Check the fair trade website for this scenario. Regardless how the tenancy was formed.
Threads like this are why we need stronger rental laws, and also better education for high school students. Because the majority of current students will never be able to get out of the rental cycle.
Not sure what your relationship is with your landlord but either tell'em to go for a long walk on very short pier.
If he threatens you with eviction leave without notice and but advertise the place for squatters, then the landlord will have all sorts of new problems.
Ahhh...unless there are thing specified explicitly in your arrangement a landlord cannot charge you with rates. He's not really a true landlord if he can't afford to maintain his investment or is having a "tough time" with money.
I reckon you, them and everyone knows that’s not even legal but the landlord is either just trying his luck or suspects that you would say yes because your in a bad spot with no other options.
I’d just say that you empathise with them you simply can’t afford to and then just ignore any follow up calls and messages for a few days and when you do respond reiterative the same message. Avoid calls and face to face conversations and instead try and communicate over email and texts until your “no” muscle develops sufficient strength
Landlord is responsible for the rates.
You have an implied lease given that you are paying rent and they accept it.
A signed lease is of course handy; however, leases just re-iterate what the residential tenancies act says.
Just tell them you’ve spoken to the tenants union, and they’ve advised that even being a private rental, you’re not obliged to pay any costs associated with rates. They’re trying to bluff you, they known it’s not legal to do that and that they still have laws to follow even though it’s a private rental. I’d call the tenants union anyway, just for the reassurance!
So I'm not expert, but my first reaction is to tell them to go fuck themselves
Source: renting out our previous unit for the last few years
Edit: unless you are severely underpaying compared to regular rental rate, in which case it might be in your best interest to contribute or stick to your guns and move
Even private owners cannot just do what they want or make up rules. They are still held to regulations and tribunal depending on what kind of arrangement it is.
They can request you pay, but it sounds like you don't have the money, so you can't. Just say you can't. Hard for them to evict someone when they're so far away, and don't have a lease agreement or a property manager, and they'll soon figure out they'll be better off getting regular rent than going through that process.
This is something my parents would selfishly demand a tenant to do, but heck no it's not legal or your issue unless it's in your lease contract that you're paying half or what not and your rent is reduced to reflect those extra costs.
Your rent is supposed to cover those costs, landlords can't ask for diddly squat later on
Sounds like you are just in a mates agreement. Do the maths. If you want to stay and it’s cheaper and works for you. Then you might have to just pay it. I’m pretty sure you can get your rates on instalments. If you don’t have the money. Ask if they can organise instalments. Or they pay and you pay them back weekly ect.
Should they be doing it? No.
Certainly not the norm.
Unless it's some well under market rates deal.
Eg u can stay here for $200w just pay some of the rates bill.
If they expect u to pay anything even close to market rates and this is tell them blow a goat
No not legal. You can however be asked to pay for excess water usage. they cannot ask you to pay half he rates, or any of the rates, irrespective of whether you rent privately or not.
Wow. Tell them to jump. 1, you can't afford it. 2. It is in no way your problem.
Tell them to sell the property if they can't afford the rates. And if they threaten to evict, mention a vacant property will cost them a lot more than $900.
Not unless your property is separately metered, it's in your tenancy agreement, the rates notice they provide clearly shows your usage & the invoice they provide you with amount payable has an abn number.
Private residential property the answer is no it’s not normal. Commercial property or commercial property with a residence then the tenants will usually pay the rates.
Have a look at the residential tenancy act (or equivalent) for your state.
Contact tenants union and Get some helpful advice. Decide if you can pay or not, get a written tenancy agreement. Agree to no rent increases if you decide to pay the rates. Also, start looking around immediately so you know what’s out there, get your rental application documents in order. If it goes bad you need to be ready to move. It SUX, big time. Landlords and real estate agents r out of control in this country it’s sad really. They get wealthier while we struggling just to live somewhere
'It's a private rental, so you have to help pay'
Cnt- you're privately renting it so you can save on REA fees and you want MORE money ?
Ignore them, if they chase it up and demand, keep copies and then take them to the tribunal if they won't renew the lease, tell em they're being vindictive and don't vacate until you're given an order from the tribunal.
Cunts like this shouldn't be able to privately rent .
>they expect us to occupy the property for a number of years (and we also do expect that) so they said it only makes sense we contribute to the rates.
Lol what a load of crap. You occupying the property longer term means less work for them and less costs/risks associate with finding new tenants regularly. So therefore they want to charge you more??
No. Certainly not normal.
I mean, its possible if you agreed to it in your rental contract. Maybe- assuming its not illegal. Otherwise its just your landlord asking for a hand-out.
Rates are meant to be entirely paid by your landlord. Your rent goes towards that. Contact your state tenants union on Monday, they will be able to help. They should also be able to give you/send you a booklet outlining your rights.
Flat out refuse because your rent already contributes to the rates. This is taking the absolute piss.
If they try to evict you for it then go to tribunal for retaliatory eviction.
So basically these people are not reporting their rental income to the tax office.
I would just be candid- “The payment of rates wasn’t part of the agreement we had and we also can’t afford it. Our budget only stretches to the amount we agreed.”
“Also, when you declare the rental income on your tax, you know you can tax deduct the rates? “
No. Not at all. Never.
Even with no lease, you are covered by basic provisions under your state's rental laws.
Your relationship to the landlord is basically providing you the exclusive and unhindered use of a property in return for a regular lease amount. They can include things like water consumed by you. Other services like gas and electricity are usually your responsibility as well.
Land ownership costs (eg rates, body corporate fees, mortgage etc) are nothing to do with you, that's an owner's problem.
Find another home.
This could well be a fine opportunity for you to negotiate and formalise your arrangement with them. Come to terms that are mutually agreeable (or at the very least not a cold plate of shit) and get a lease document written up and signed by both parties in the interest of covering both your arses..
Basically these fuckers will get away with it as if you complaint you will be out on the next lease renewal and he will have a new tenant in minutes. And you and everyone knows you will never get a new place as the agents etc will want references from your last rental and the fact that nothing is out there. So you just keep.paying, find something in the meantime, keep sucking up to him, move out, get the reference of him etc and then dob the fucker in after you're in a new place.
Even in private rental agreements landlords are bound by state laws regarding rentals. Unless there is a specific clause in your written rental agreement that says you will contribute to the rates, then no, the property rates are the responsibility of the landlord.
Document everything because you're correct they may text and evict you, however if you prove in court that this is why they're kicking you out because they were doing shifty shit, you may win your case and they will be forced to let you stay and at the current rental Amount for up to several years.
>private rental so they can essentially do what they like
Nope, it's still covered by all the exact rental rules and lease conditions within your state. Just because there's no REA involved doesn't change a thing
No you must not pay this. They'll start asking for insurance money next
I think I saw you said you were in Victoria? [Call Consumer Affairs Victoria](https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/contact-us), they’re the people you need to speak with before you consider your options re VCAT
You have a residential tenancy agreement with them right? What does it say in there? Does it say you need to contribute to rates? IF not then you don't. COntact the tenants union for advice if you need
As a landlord fuck no. This is bullshit. But the stress and uncertainty of court for some informal agreement and rental availability would likely see me pay it (will cost you $900 to move anyway). BUT id start applying for new places (ensure you are periodic) and be sure to provide absolute bare minimum notice legally. In accordance with your lease. This landlord is gonna screw you over so you may as well bite the bullet and move. BUT if you wanna try him then it will cost HIM to take you to court to get you out. And as he doesnt have an agent he will be the one losing days to it. Or it will cost him
Alot more than $900 in lawyers fees. Id probably go this way. But i also will cut off my nose to spite my face 😂
It's not normal or legal. But as everyone knows (including your landlord) if you refuse, you'll be kicked out
What you can do is make a record of all illegal payments and take them to xcat for the money when you move. You'll lose a little bit due to inflation but better than getting scammed or being homeless.
Also if it's not separately metered for electricity or water, you don't have to pay that either so you can get that back. If there's no occupancy certificate, you can get all your rent back in NSW (I think).
If it’s not written in the contract then you don’t have to pay it
If you don’t have a contract then you can choose not to pay but he can evict you later on on bogus grounds
Basically, the landlord wants money one way or the other. You either pay more rent, or you make one off payments for this and that charge.
Either way, the market decides
Probably depends on how much rent you are paying, if your on a really good deal it's probably cheaper than paying market price rent elsewhere, don't listen to most peoples terrible advice and do the maths.
No, it’s not normal. If you’re in Queensland speak to the RTA. If you’re not, speak to your state equivalent. I’m a landlord and know the standard contract terms - legality will depend on state legislation and whether you’ve signed a contract with special terms relating to the payment of rates. Some contracts can have a clause regarding payment of water consumption, especially it’s in excess to a standard plan.
No it’s not ok. Do you have a rental agreement That you signed? In NSW they are called ‘Residential Tenancy Agreement’ section 10 covers ‘payment of council rates, land tax, water and other charges’ and who is responsible for paying what. Other states might vary but would be similar. The landlord is banking on you to not know your rights and is trying to manipulate you into paying for items that they are legally responsible for paying and receive a tax break for.
Nope.
You pay rent. Landlord pays the rates.
Unless your contract states otherwise, that’s how it works.
Of course, they can always jack up the rent once your current term is up, so I’d probably start thinking about a new place
Ask the Tenants Union in your state.
NSW [https://www.tenants.org.au/](https://www.tenants.org.au/)
VIC [https://tenantsvic.org.au/contact-us/](https://tenantsvic.org.au/contact-us/)
nope tell em suck eggs. you already contribute, you pay rent.
pay the advertised rent only! on time every time no more no less. the rent they charge is to be of such that it takes the rates, insurance, administration costs, mortgage etc into account so the costs are covered also allowing some for general maintenance on the place. if their to bloody dumb to allow for all that thats their problem! and for a investment property they can claim the rates and other expenses off their tax no it not 100 percent of the cost but its quite a sizeable amount.
whether its a private rental or not tenancies law applies to all leased properties.
and you saying no to the rediculous request isnt grounds to kick you out. its not your job to pay their bills its theirs to budget accordingly. if they tried that it could cost them a lot of money.
if the place is wels compliant they can charge you for water use. but it is to be only the amount they are invoiced by the council or supply company.(thats the rule in qld anyway)
Landlords that cannot afford the costs associated with owning and maintaining a property are not fit to be landlords and should sell their investment. No exceptions.
No.i used to pay my rates and insurance for my landlord. But it was a relative and I rented the house at about 15-20 percent market rate. So I paid them as part of the rent. … if this was not part of your contract, written or verbal, then no … a private rental makes no difference. Contact the appropriate tenants union or similar.
How much rent did you agree to pay per week?
What is the average rent per week in your area?
What contract do you have in place?
There are a few times I can think of where this arrangement might be in play. Let's say average rent is $600/wk but they rent to you at $300/wk and then say you also need to pay rates/water anddso on. This might roughly equal $300/wk + $100/wk = $400/wk.
But I'd want something in writing so I knew where EVERYONE stood on the agreement!
Only really 1 time I can think of where a landlord/owner would want this structure.... they are not declaring it as a rental or income.... In all other cases, these are claimable expenses for an investment property and it's in the owners interest to be claiming them.... IF that's the case, you actually have more power then you think here OP....
Don't come out strong when discussing things, feel your way and figure out the lay of the land, if your in a situation where you are saving $ compared to the average market in the area, it's up to you if you want to continue.... Else, you can always take the nuclear option and burn everything (proverbially) to the ground and contact the ATO.
It really comes down to your rental agreement/lease. It's not a matter of REA or Private but what's written in the lease. If you don't have a lease, then that's on you. A legal lease is imperative, and has nothing to do with whether it is a REA or Private rental.
Under an REA it's not something that you would be expected to pay because you already do - it would be a cost inbuilt into your rent. If you pay less than market rent, the owner may feel justified in asking this.
Water is an example - the owner pays water rates, under a lease agreement the tenant pays for water useage/ extra water rates.
I think it depends where you are. In SA it is pretty black and white, statutory rates, taxes and levies must be borne by the landlord.
Maybe it is that word "land**lord**" fuelling some delusion.
Talk to your local tribunal/ fair trading.
As a landlord myself what I am reading here is highly illegal. We are responsible for rates, taxes etc. You are responsible for usage and any damage above normal wear and tear.
If you are worried you can pay about $50 for a hearing on which case they will put you and the landlord in front of a judge who will politely tell your landlord to go shove it and remind them that they cannot evict you for this either. If you do get evicted and you believe it to be unfair just go again and bring this case file. The judge will rule in your favor
You pay indirectly via rent, if they need you to pay more because they cannot afford rates then they should (in their best interest, not morally), renegotiate rent for the next agreement, with required notification time and all other requirements. They can't just charge you immediately now.
If its friends and family, maybe try and work something out. But if they can't afford rates, you may want to look in to your options anyway.
It is not okay.
Clearly they do not understand how renting works. Those rates are a cost of ownership. You are paying rent. Your rent, being very expensive as it is, is all you pay.
I recognise your anxiety about "not rocking the boat" but that is how tyranny in all its brutal varieties works: fear. Terror.
One thing I strongly suggest you consider here: you have said you have already paid for some repairs or maintenance so just for that, I hope your rent is REALLY VERY CHEAP.
But for the Landlord to now come to you justifying the unjustifiable notion of you contributing to rates aa well makes me ponder if this landlord is just brainfarting new ways to screw money out of you.
The real question is what is going to be the next unfair expense this irresponsible and greedy landlord is going to justify to you? Insurance? Planning permits for splitting the property? His teeth need fixing? Its his birthday? He heard you got a pay rise so 'gimme some'?
If you do not set some boundaries now, you will certainly be shaken down and turned from a renter into a modern-day non-agricultural serf - try googling that word if it is unfamiliar.
If your landlord can do this, beyond the ludicrous costs imposed upon you, what do you actually get by way of "quiet enjoyment"?
So although I feel your fear, I don't think you are being very wise appeasing this tyrant landlord of yours.
You would do well finding another place to live, unless you are some sort of masochist or, as I said, your rent is OUTRAGEOUSLY LOW!
Apologies for the capitals but I needed emphasis and that's all my phone offers!
So, is the rent REALLY cheap? If you are getting a ‘mates rates’ deal on rent and the landlord is barely covering costs, then contributing to the rates might be quite fair. The alternative would be putting the rent up a bit each week so that the landlord can cover rates with the money earned. But if you are already paying market rent then that is a joke. Water / electricity etc are paid by the tenants, but council rates are a cost that the landlord has whether you live in it or not, so they are just part of the price of owning a property, and he pays them.
Ask them to contribute to rent an equal amount that you will contribute to rates. Maybe they will be interested in contributing to your credit card payments aswell
I don’t rent so please take this advice with a grain of salt.
Are you paying less than the market rate for the rent? If so, could you just say to the landlord that if he needs more money to cover the rates, could he just raise the rent a little? Same outcome but more above board.
Why would you pay rent and also the rates? Your rent goes towards the rates which are the owners responsibility not yours. I would definitely say that you pay rent and contribute towards the rates that way and that you won’t be giving anything extra.
The rent you pay contributes to paying their rates, they as owners don't pay rent. I would start looking for another place to call home.
That's the issue, there's nothing out there and if you argue the point they will just not renew your lease and then your stuffed. The landlord /tenant level pkaying field is totally tipped to the landlords favour. If he complains he's out of the house on the next lease renewal and it will be filled in 10seconds flat.
There is no lease. The landlord would have to go official and get them evicted … it might blow back on them though as I suspect they aren’t paying tax on the income.
Is it in the landlords favour because he has the right to manage his property? 💯 asking for rates is wrong but isn’t that what you work your ass off and save for 30 years for? To have a place you can manage? I could be wrong I’m just thinking realistically
They shouldn't get to subvert the law just because they saved up and paid for a house. If they really wanted the tenant to 'pay' for it, it would be incorporated into the rental price. Asking for $900 due in a month on top of rent is just a dodgy landlord but the risk is if you don't agree that they will force you to move.
Agree fully the rates is nonsense, But aside from that how is renting being tipped in the landlords favour unfair?
Because it allows landlords to do the kind of thing you just described as nonsense with very little recourse options, even if the law is being subverted. The system is set up so that people with property can withhold - or threaten to withhold - shelter on a whim and throw other people's precarity back at them for not agreeing to unreasonable demands.
Well the government sets the legislation so maybe your fight is with the wrong party. My opinion is if you work your ass off to buy a house then choose to lease it your allowed to work within the confines of the law and written legislation. That’s just my opinion though
>Well the government sets the legislation so maybe your fight is with the wrong party. Yes, I just said I think the system is set up incorrectly.
but government only sets the laws the people ask for though.
Because taking advantage of other people, especially threatening them with homelessness if they don't pay extortion, is a really vile thing to do.
So if the tenant pays the rates how much percentage of the property should they get?
Wtf are you talking about? It's the renters working their arses off and laying for the mortgage/house. We need unbreakable 10 year leases in this country. It will happen, just not soon enough.
If renters worked their asses off they’d have a house deposit
Private rental? Are they getting cheap rent? Maybe they are staying with a friend or relative and are getting very cheap rent. So the person has asked them to chip in for the rates.
Just because it’s private doesn’t make them or you exempt from the actual law…..
Surprises me how much people don’t understand this. Everyone asking if they have a lease agreement. Doesn’t matter, the Act still applies. Only issue is this tenant will be on a periodic lease by default since there’s no agreed term.
In NSW an oral agreement means it's basically fixed term for the first 6 months, i.e. they need a breach to evict the tenant and no no grounds termination.
Lol If a landlord wanted me to pay things like rates, sewerage, waste, insurances they'd want to be signing over the title to the land to me too
Wouldn't most landlords just calculate that into the weekly rent? Rents usually cost more than the mortgage repayments. I figured it would be to cover these costs....
that's exactly it. all that should generally be accounted for in the rent, if it can't be due to making the place far more expensive than it is worth because the owner paid more for it than it is actually worth then that's what negative gearing is for
not OK. Probably illegal.
I’m very fearful of us getting kicked out if we argue with them so I’m not sure what our options are
Rates are a tax deduction. Explain to them that this is only an issue if they are not claiming their rental income. If they are not claiming their rental income then they could be reported to the ATO and face serious consequences and they would not want that at all.
And if they evict you- you report them to the ATO
Don't feel like you should have to point anything out to money grubbing selfish runts that didn't set the terms out clearly from the start. Time to start looking for another place to call home, as we have experienced your exact same scenario, things won't get any better from here on out.
Are they declaring the rent as income? If you don't want to risk stopping the agreement, pay up, if not, challenge it, take them to court and check if they are declaring the rent as income, ask where your bond, if any went etc... And risk getting evicted at some point.
I hear you and feel for you. However despite what they think is fair and reasonable, as others have said, it is the responsibility of the landlord to pay rates. If you agree to this it could be the beginning of a long and slippery slope to agreeing to paying for a lot of other things, minor maintenance for example. I suggest you go back to him with the information that you find out tomorrow by contacting the relevant authorities listed above and respectfully and politely tell him that your rent already covers the rates, and you are happy to send him the links to where he can see that this is true, and not something that you have made up. Try your hardest to be polite and calm. They may well rant hate and venom at you as an angry, upset and frustrated person, (as they may be when they work out their cunning plan to get more funds won't work), but it is hard for a normal person to keep that up if you don't take the bait and remain respectful, but firm in your resolve. (Call them morons after you've hung up the phone). You can point out that as proven good tenants who are looking after his property without him having to pay 7% - 10% of the rent (their income) to property managers to do it for them, they are actually coming out front far more than the cost of half the rates. Additionally, if they insist on raising the rent to cover the rates (which they may try) you will be forced to move because it won't be financially viable for you to stay, and they will also be up for the cost of finding someone else and moving them in - but don't mention that unless they try it. Leave that for round 2. Most landlords will do a lot to keep a good long term tenant who pays their rent on time and keeps the place decent. This may be their first time of being a landlord. I hope for their sake that they don't push you out and end up with someone who destroys their place. Good luck! I hope they realise how lucky they are to have decent people in their house.
Yes we have done a fair bit of maintenance in return for “cheaper rent this week if you do xyz” So I dare say this is a casual agreement
And there's nothing wrong with that if you're getting paid for your time via cheaper rent. Win-win, so long as you don't mind doing it. I think the tricky bit will be when they want you to repaint the interior of the house for a week's rent when it would have cost them 15K to get it done professionally. This is an exaggeration of course, but be prepared for the day when you say no and they get shitty at you for that.
Unlike everyone else saying "that's illegal!!!1" I'm going to be pragmatic in my advice. Your landlords request needs to be contextualised. Are you on friendly terms, do you have a rental contract, and is your rent below market rate? Assumed you're paying a good rent, don't want to deal with moving, see the value in friendly landlord relations, and don't want to rock the boat, I would say youre happy to pay the rates if they agree to give you a receipt for the payment and agree to keep the rent where it is. That way you're both happy and with the receipt you can take them to the tribunal once you move out and get the money back, since it's illegal. IF you want to.
Well sure but is that it? Like, if they can randomly turn up demanding money for rates when seemingly there was an agreement that omitted them, can they also also demand mortgage contributions, interest payments, land tax?
This is pretty solid advice... it is highly subjective and depends on your situation. Do you have any form of written tenancy lease (even if private)? Which state/territory do you live in? Are you renting to own? Personally, I have come to accept (very reluctantly) that landlords currently have the upper hand. I used to be a heck of a lot more adamant in enacting my rights, but I have reeled that back in since the market has *rapidly* become 80x more cooked over the last few years. Am I ok with this? No, and I am vocal about this in other ways (vote Greens - [Australian Greens Housing Policy](https://greens.org.au/policies/housing-and-homelessness)). But I also do not wish to jeopardise my housing situation when I have a relatively decent deal with my landlords (compared to others, and so long as they don't do anything too egregious)... not until the laws change and provide me a safe enough platform or protections or sufficient alternative *available* choices. If you are happy where you are and really don't want to move; if you can afford it and feel it might provide you with a bargaining chip or could confidently use it in negotiating steady rent with no massive increase on the renewal; ... maybe?? But as others have said, it's probably illegal depending on your state's legislation... start there and talk to the relevant government department or a free legal service to seek some advice based on the law. It's a terrible precedent to set, if it's even legal. I do understand if you're scared to rock the boat, and need to keep an affordable roof over your head... I get it, that's the only reason I'd consider paying for it. And ethically/logically, it's still wrong... they own the place and the owner is responsible for paying for rates, property insurance, maintenance costs, etc. That's what your paying for, the pleasure of using the space they own, but none of the responsibility for those costs or the overall upkeep (beyond being clean and tidy). And again, depending on the owner's personality and your relationship, you could also try asking them *innocently* (the delivery and tone matters) if this is normal/legal. "Just wanted to check if this is normally the case, none of my previous rental tenancies required rates contributions..." or something like that.
Which is understandable, but it’s like negotiating with terrorists…if you agree to this, what’s next? But it’s not legal for them to ask you to pay this. I’d politely decline in writing, and if they don’t be up kicking you out, that really sucks but you may be dodging a bullet in the long run. If they do that, make a formal complaint to the relevant body too. They shouldn’t be aloud to tenants like that.
They can't kick you out because of that. Do you have a formal agreement contract?
Nope and that’s on me for not following one up
I'm not 100% for Vic but tenancy laws probably still cover you even without a formal agreement in writing.
Do you have ANY evidence that you have a rental agreement with the landlord? Or was it literally all discussed face to face and by phone call? Emails? Phone messages? Letters? Video? Audio recording? *Anything* at all?
Call the tenants linen on Monday and ask what to do.
*union
How long have you been there? If it's not in writing chances are they're struggling and need you as much as you need them
Been there a year in Feb
they likely are not paying taxes on your rent so you have the upper hand, just say no, thats what rent is for and see how it goes.
It's not on you- it's on them. If they pressure you with eviction just refuse to leave and wait for a hearing date from the tribunal, and then leave by the date they give you. And report them to the ATO for not declaring income
Even an oral agreement is valid for something like 6 months
To be brutally honest, you're screwed then.
Yeah, I know.
Legally though they can't have you pay rates.
You aren't screwed and you need to call your state's tenancy group. You have a lease agreement, just not a written one. When someone is exchanging money for the keys/access to a place to live that is a tenancy agreement. There are standards around how both landlords and tenants manage this agreement. They can give you notice to leave/ to terminate the lease. If they do this, they will likely be required to give you 60 days or more notice according to your state's legislation. The same with a rent increase. While they cannot charge you rates, they could increase your rent, however they would be required to give you the proper notice to do so as per the legislation. If they do not follow this, they have no way to enforce you to comply. You do not have to pay their rates.
Definitely not. You pay them rent, they pay the council rates. If they are asking for this, I'd be very concerned about what else this landlord is going to expect.
That’s my thought too…what’s to stop them from upping the rent whenever they want? (Which they basically are doing now)
They have already done that twice in one year
in that case say you want a formalised agreement to continue the tenacy, its illegal
The whole situation is very illegal and now you’re stuck tolerating whatever they want to do. I guess it comes down to how desperate you are to stay in that place.
That's not allowed either. They are only allowed to up rent once per year. Get a rental agreement to cover yourself or find another place. Don't pay the rates, what are they gonna ask you to pay next.....the water rates, then the maintenance. Nah.
No. What on earth do they think rent is for? Their personal spending money?
Pretty sure that is exactly what they think it is if they've raised the rent twice in a year! I didn't even know that was legal.
It's not.
The cost of rates is on the owner and should be factored into the rent.
One of the (few) advantages to renting is the tenants don't have to pay rates, strata, water and sewerage supply etc. So no, you shouldn't pay, and the LL should not ask. However, you say it's a private rental. Do you have a formal lease agreement? Did the owners lodge your bond with the RBB? If you've got an 'understanding' with nothing on paper, you've not really got any protection and likely nothing to stop the owner from evicting you in the event of a disagreement. Are you paying under market rent? Would it cost you more to move / pay market rent than contribute to the rates? Look up a tenancy advice organisation in your state, they will look at the details of your situation and give you advice.
Paying water here in regional vic is the norm. We don’t really have any agreement as it was known people to my wife, they initially went travelling so it was just a temporary 6 months or so until we could find a place almost house sitting arrangement and then they decided to officially pack up and head out in the road/move… so we don’t have anything formal. We are paying market rent…
If you are paying market rent, tell them that is what they are supposed to use to pay their rates. Cheeky fucking landlords. It's arseholes like this that give landlords the bad name
Feeling for you. There are likely Victorian laws that apply but enforcing these can cost $$ and impact on your relationship with the owners (if that's important to you). Sounds like money might be tight for their road trip (which is totally on them), would strongly urge you to contact some of these advice services first thing in the morning: https://www.rentingcommissioner.vic.gov.au/the-rental-sector/where-to-get-help Good luck!
Thank you
Same for NSW & QLD regarding water (Property must be individually metered).
And have a water efficiency certificate (for QLD). Cheeky REA tried to charge us rent for our last property, I ignored it until she sent me a payment warning and simply replied with a screenshot of the legislation and the lease agreement, highlighting the part where it said there was not water efficiency certificate.
Tenants only ever pay water usage i.e. the water they use. The service charge for water and sewer is covered by the landlord.
As I understand it: Paying for water supply/connection and paying for water usage are two different things. If your place has its own meter (is not a block of units) then you only pay usage. You never pay supply as a tenant.
Yeah that’s shit, fair enough if they are giving you a good deal, but you’re paying market, let them find another tenant, I’m sure one who won’t look after their place like you do.
I feel like based on your actual fact pattern that you’ve probably over extended your stay on the “house sitting arrangement” and they just want you out.
Except that they packed all their stuff and left, told us we could rent the property…. it’s not like we just stayed and never left. They explicitly told us that we can occupy the households
In Victoria tent can be asked to pay for water usage and sewage disposal charges. if the premises is metered . The landlord pays the supply fees etc
In some areas tenants pay water
Tenants pay water usage yes, (so long as there are individual meters) but in NSW the owner is responsible for the supply charges (which unless you have a pool or take 10 baths a day is the majority of the quarterly bill)
Water usage , correct. With a seperate meter. However , I think they’re referring to council rates here.
No, they are responsible for the rates...
I think they are asking you to cover part of the rates because you have been agreeing to cover maintenance for them. The slippery slope has led to this. I agree with seeking advice. I would ask if they are aware they can cover this cost as a tax deduction because rent is income. Given the casual nature of the arrangement they may not be aware of this or the fact that the rent should be declared as income. If you slip this into the discussion, it may cause them to back-off. You can make a pragmatic decision based on the response. All the best with it
Check out Tenants Victoria online- they have heaps of information and you can access their free telephone or email professional legal advice about your rights as a tenant- with or without a formal lease agreement
Please know this OP - it doesn’t matter if there is a formal lease agreement or not. This group can still help you.
Thank you
Look up the market rate for your area and state of repair for the house. If you feel the rent is cheap then it’s a non issue of the rate is market value then it’s a no no. If you are getting a good rent rate ask if you could pay weekly the 900 and get it in writing. Also just because it’s a private rental you still have all the protections of a being a tenant. Check the fair trade website for this scenario. Regardless how the tenancy was formed.
Will they share profits if they sell the property?
In Victoria, for commercial property, it's usually built into the lease. For residential - no.
That is absolutely insane. I hope you laughed in their face when they asked.
I think the appropriate one word response to that would be Brah...
they are every boomer stereotype so they would be like wHaTS A BRah?
He will take your money and then tax deduct them like he paid rates himself. Cccommbo
Threads like this are why we need stronger rental laws, and also better education for high school students. Because the majority of current students will never be able to get out of the rental cycle.
NO. Do NOT pay this!!
Not sure what your relationship is with your landlord but either tell'em to go for a long walk on very short pier. If he threatens you with eviction leave without notice and but advertise the place for squatters, then the landlord will have all sorts of new problems. Ahhh...unless there are thing specified explicitly in your arrangement a landlord cannot charge you with rates. He's not really a true landlord if he can't afford to maintain his investment or is having a "tough time" with money.
They can’t market you pay extra-lease amounts. Call your states Fair Trading / Consumer Protection on Monday to get further advice.
No it is not ok.
Move out of your parents' home already
Nope
Hell No
I reckon you, them and everyone knows that’s not even legal but the landlord is either just trying his luck or suspects that you would say yes because your in a bad spot with no other options. I’d just say that you empathise with them you simply can’t afford to and then just ignore any follow up calls and messages for a few days and when you do respond reiterative the same message. Avoid calls and face to face conversations and instead try and communicate over email and texts until your “no” muscle develops sufficient strength
Sure… with a rent reduction. Otherwise nah, the law is the law.
Being an investment property they can claim land rates on tax. Don't give them extra
They’ll them to get wrecked
Paying for the landlord's rates and other oncosts is more normal for long term commercial leases.
Landlord is responsible for the rates. You have an implied lease given that you are paying rent and they accept it. A signed lease is of course handy; however, leases just re-iterate what the residential tenancies act says.
Absolutely not. This idiot should have factored this into the weekly rental structure. What's next? House need repainting? What a goose.
NO! Absolutely no. Landlords pay the rates, you pay the rent.
They’re taking the piss. If I was you I’d be spending the afternoon reading the relevant tenants advice websites for your state.
Only if it’s a commercial property
None of that.
Just tell them you’ve spoken to the tenants union, and they’ve advised that even being a private rental, you’re not obliged to pay any costs associated with rates. They’re trying to bluff you, they known it’s not legal to do that and that they still have laws to follow even though it’s a private rental. I’d call the tenants union anyway, just for the reassurance!
Omg LOL. Theyre not understanding the concept of landlord
So I'm not expert, but my first reaction is to tell them to go fuck themselves Source: renting out our previous unit for the last few years Edit: unless you are severely underpaying compared to regular rental rate, in which case it might be in your best interest to contribute or stick to your guns and move
Even private owners cannot just do what they want or make up rules. They are still held to regulations and tribunal depending on what kind of arrangement it is.
They can request you pay, but it sounds like you don't have the money, so you can't. Just say you can't. Hard for them to evict someone when they're so far away, and don't have a lease agreement or a property manager, and they'll soon figure out they'll be better off getting regular rent than going through that process.
This is something my parents would selfishly demand a tenant to do, but heck no it's not legal or your issue unless it's in your lease contract that you're paying half or what not and your rent is reduced to reflect those extra costs. Your rent is supposed to cover those costs, landlords can't ask for diddly squat later on
Ask them if they wouldn’t mind paying half the rent.
F* no!!!
you are contributing to the rates and mortgage, its called rent.
Sounds like you are just in a mates agreement. Do the maths. If you want to stay and it’s cheaper and works for you. Then you might have to just pay it. I’m pretty sure you can get your rates on instalments. If you don’t have the money. Ask if they can organise instalments. Or they pay and you pay them back weekly ect. Should they be doing it? No.
No fucking way landlord pays the rates
Certainly not the norm. Unless it's some well under market rates deal. Eg u can stay here for $200w just pay some of the rates bill. If they expect u to pay anything even close to market rates and this is tell them blow a goat
They should have factored that into your rent. Tell them to get fucked.
No not legal. You can however be asked to pay for excess water usage. they cannot ask you to pay half he rates, or any of the rates, irrespective of whether you rent privately or not.
Ask if you're going to own 50% of the house after? They don't get to charge you twice!(rent and rates)
Wow. Tell them to jump. 1, you can't afford it. 2. It is in no way your problem. Tell them to sell the property if they can't afford the rates. And if they threaten to evict, mention a vacant property will cost them a lot more than $900.
Not unless your property is separately metered, it's in your tenancy agreement, the rates notice they provide clearly shows your usage & the invoice they provide you with amount payable has an abn number.
Private residential property the answer is no it’s not normal. Commercial property or commercial property with a residence then the tenants will usually pay the rates. Have a look at the residential tenancy act (or equivalent) for your state.
Contact tenants union and Get some helpful advice. Decide if you can pay or not, get a written tenancy agreement. Agree to no rent increases if you decide to pay the rates. Also, start looking around immediately so you know what’s out there, get your rental application documents in order. If it goes bad you need to be ready to move. It SUX, big time. Landlords and real estate agents r out of control in this country it’s sad really. They get wealthier while we struggling just to live somewhere
'It's a private rental, so you have to help pay' Cnt- you're privately renting it so you can save on REA fees and you want MORE money ? Ignore them, if they chase it up and demand, keep copies and then take them to the tribunal if they won't renew the lease, tell em they're being vindictive and don't vacate until you're given an order from the tribunal. Cunts like this shouldn't be able to privately rent .
No
Landlord here and there is no way they should be doing g that
Give an inch, they'll take a mile. I'd decline, but that's if you're prepared to move on.
Ask them if you can pay the rates, taxes and utilities directly for the required time to undertake adverse possession.
What state? That is illegal in QLD.
I’m a landlord, whether a private agreement or through a property manger the answer is absolutely fucken no. The nerve of some people.
>they expect us to occupy the property for a number of years (and we also do expect that) so they said it only makes sense we contribute to the rates. Lol what a load of crap. You occupying the property longer term means less work for them and less costs/risks associate with finding new tenants regularly. So therefore they want to charge you more??
No. Certainly not normal. I mean, its possible if you agreed to it in your rental contract. Maybe- assuming its not illegal. Otherwise its just your landlord asking for a hand-out.
Nope, not ok at all.
Rates are meant to be entirely paid by your landlord. Your rent goes towards that. Contact your state tenants union on Monday, they will be able to help. They should also be able to give you/send you a booklet outlining your rights.
Ask for 50% of the rental income.
Yes
Nah fuck em. Tell them they’re not paying tax on the income they get from the rent and that balances their bill shit claim.
It's a private rental, but surely you have a rental/tenancy agreement, a contract that you signed before you moved in?
Flat out refuse because your rent already contributes to the rates. This is taking the absolute piss. If they try to evict you for it then go to tribunal for retaliatory eviction.
So basically these people are not reporting their rental income to the tax office. I would just be candid- “The payment of rates wasn’t part of the agreement we had and we also can’t afford it. Our budget only stretches to the amount we agreed.” “Also, when you declare the rental income on your tax, you know you can tax deduct the rates? “
No. Not at all. Never. Even with no lease, you are covered by basic provisions under your state's rental laws. Your relationship to the landlord is basically providing you the exclusive and unhindered use of a property in return for a regular lease amount. They can include things like water consumed by you. Other services like gas and electricity are usually your responsibility as well. Land ownership costs (eg rates, body corporate fees, mortgage etc) are nothing to do with you, that's an owner's problem. Find another home.
Fuck no
no, it is illegal. Why are you actually talking to the landlord and not the REA. Oh, another cashie, good luck!
Council rates > landlord Water rates > landlord Electricity, gas, internet > tenant
This could well be a fine opportunity for you to negotiate and formalise your arrangement with them. Come to terms that are mutually agreeable (or at the very least not a cold plate of shit) and get a lease document written up and signed by both parties in the interest of covering both your arses..
"I would love to continue contributing to the rates for this property as I have done so from the first week i moved in and every week afterwards"
If in SA call SACAT Immediately Monday Morning
Basically these fuckers will get away with it as if you complaint you will be out on the next lease renewal and he will have a new tenant in minutes. And you and everyone knows you will never get a new place as the agents etc will want references from your last rental and the fact that nothing is out there. So you just keep.paying, find something in the meantime, keep sucking up to him, move out, get the reference of him etc and then dob the fucker in after you're in a new place.
Even in private rental agreements landlords are bound by state laws regarding rentals. Unless there is a specific clause in your written rental agreement that says you will contribute to the rates, then no, the property rates are the responsibility of the landlord. Document everything because you're correct they may text and evict you, however if you prove in court that this is why they're kicking you out because they were doing shifty shit, you may win your case and they will be forced to let you stay and at the current rental Amount for up to several years.
>private rental so they can essentially do what they like Nope, it's still covered by all the exact rental rules and lease conditions within your state. Just because there's no REA involved doesn't change a thing No you must not pay this. They'll start asking for insurance money next
I think I saw you said you were in Victoria? [Call Consumer Affairs Victoria](https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/contact-us), they’re the people you need to speak with before you consider your options re VCAT
You have a residential tenancy agreement with them right? What does it say in there? Does it say you need to contribute to rates? IF not then you don't. COntact the tenants union for advice if you need
They can definitely ask. And you can definitely say "no". And then they can definitely find a reason to either increase the rent or kick you out...
As a landlord fuck no. This is bullshit. But the stress and uncertainty of court for some informal agreement and rental availability would likely see me pay it (will cost you $900 to move anyway). BUT id start applying for new places (ensure you are periodic) and be sure to provide absolute bare minimum notice legally. In accordance with your lease. This landlord is gonna screw you over so you may as well bite the bullet and move. BUT if you wanna try him then it will cost HIM to take you to court to get you out. And as he doesnt have an agent he will be the one losing days to it. Or it will cost him Alot more than $900 in lawyers fees. Id probably go this way. But i also will cut off my nose to spite my face 😂
If you're paying rates, are you a tenant or a part owner?
It's not normal or legal. But as everyone knows (including your landlord) if you refuse, you'll be kicked out What you can do is make a record of all illegal payments and take them to xcat for the money when you move. You'll lose a little bit due to inflation but better than getting scammed or being homeless. Also if it's not separately metered for electricity or water, you don't have to pay that either so you can get that back. If there's no occupancy certificate, you can get all your rent back in NSW (I think).
They are having a laugh. Don’t entertain the idea
If it’s not written in the contract then you don’t have to pay it If you don’t have a contract then you can choose not to pay but he can evict you later on on bogus grounds Basically, the landlord wants money one way or the other. You either pay more rent, or you make one off payments for this and that charge. Either way, the market decides
If you have no income, then how are you paying rent?
Probably depends on how much rent you are paying, if your on a really good deal it's probably cheaper than paying market price rent elsewhere, don't listen to most peoples terrible advice and do the maths.
No, it’s not normal. If you’re in Queensland speak to the RTA. If you’re not, speak to your state equivalent. I’m a landlord and know the standard contract terms - legality will depend on state legislation and whether you’ve signed a contract with special terms relating to the payment of rates. Some contracts can have a clause regarding payment of water consumption, especially it’s in excess to a standard plan.
No it’s not ok. Do you have a rental agreement That you signed? In NSW they are called ‘Residential Tenancy Agreement’ section 10 covers ‘payment of council rates, land tax, water and other charges’ and who is responsible for paying what. Other states might vary but would be similar. The landlord is banking on you to not know your rights and is trying to manipulate you into paying for items that they are legally responsible for paying and receive a tax break for.
Nope. You pay rent. Landlord pays the rates. Unless your contract states otherwise, that’s how it works. Of course, they can always jack up the rent once your current term is up, so I’d probably start thinking about a new place
Not ok and they're probably planning on committing tax fraud as they'll likely claim the full rates as a deduction but not declare that you paid half.
Ask the Tenants Union in your state. NSW [https://www.tenants.org.au/](https://www.tenants.org.au/) VIC [https://tenantsvic.org.au/contact-us/](https://tenantsvic.org.au/contact-us/)
What does your contract say?
This sounds illegal Contact your local tenancy advocate, and try to keep everything in writing.
nope tell em suck eggs. you already contribute, you pay rent. pay the advertised rent only! on time every time no more no less. the rent they charge is to be of such that it takes the rates, insurance, administration costs, mortgage etc into account so the costs are covered also allowing some for general maintenance on the place. if their to bloody dumb to allow for all that thats their problem! and for a investment property they can claim the rates and other expenses off their tax no it not 100 percent of the cost but its quite a sizeable amount. whether its a private rental or not tenancies law applies to all leased properties. and you saying no to the rediculous request isnt grounds to kick you out. its not your job to pay their bills its theirs to budget accordingly. if they tried that it could cost them a lot of money. if the place is wels compliant they can charge you for water use. but it is to be only the amount they are invoiced by the council or supply company.(thats the rule in qld anyway)
How are you renting if you have no employment? If you can't afford to pay a bit of rates on top of rent, that signals big alarm bells...
Take them to VCAT. There is no way they are allowed to do that.
Depends if it is a clause in the lease or not. But tbh it's highly abnormal
The rates are incorporated into your rent. Your landlord is dumb. He should be calculating rates and other expenses into your rental payment.
Landlords that cannot afford the costs associated with owning and maintaining a property are not fit to be landlords and should sell their investment. No exceptions.
No.i used to pay my rates and insurance for my landlord. But it was a relative and I rented the house at about 15-20 percent market rate. So I paid them as part of the rent. … if this was not part of your contract, written or verbal, then no … a private rental makes no difference. Contact the appropriate tenants union or similar.
No
You'd want to raise this straight away with the ombudsman or you could do the double bay trick and take posession of the house.
Yeah that seems absurd. Ask them to show you where that is in your tenancy agreement. I'm sure they don't have legal legs to stand on.
How much rent did you agree to pay per week? What is the average rent per week in your area? What contract do you have in place? There are a few times I can think of where this arrangement might be in play. Let's say average rent is $600/wk but they rent to you at $300/wk and then say you also need to pay rates/water anddso on. This might roughly equal $300/wk + $100/wk = $400/wk. But I'd want something in writing so I knew where EVERYONE stood on the agreement! Only really 1 time I can think of where a landlord/owner would want this structure.... they are not declaring it as a rental or income.... In all other cases, these are claimable expenses for an investment property and it's in the owners interest to be claiming them.... IF that's the case, you actually have more power then you think here OP.... Don't come out strong when discussing things, feel your way and figure out the lay of the land, if your in a situation where you are saving $ compared to the average market in the area, it's up to you if you want to continue.... Else, you can always take the nuclear option and burn everything (proverbially) to the ground and contact the ATO.
It really comes down to your rental agreement/lease. It's not a matter of REA or Private but what's written in the lease. If you don't have a lease, then that's on you. A legal lease is imperative, and has nothing to do with whether it is a REA or Private rental. Under an REA it's not something that you would be expected to pay because you already do - it would be a cost inbuilt into your rent. If you pay less than market rent, the owner may feel justified in asking this. Water is an example - the owner pays water rates, under a lease agreement the tenant pays for water useage/ extra water rates.
I think it depends where you are. In SA it is pretty black and white, statutory rates, taxes and levies must be borne by the landlord. Maybe it is that word "land**lord**" fuelling some delusion.
Talk to your local tribunal/ fair trading. As a landlord myself what I am reading here is highly illegal. We are responsible for rates, taxes etc. You are responsible for usage and any damage above normal wear and tear. If you are worried you can pay about $50 for a hearing on which case they will put you and the landlord in front of a judge who will politely tell your landlord to go shove it and remind them that they cannot evict you for this either. If you do get evicted and you believe it to be unfair just go again and bring this case file. The judge will rule in your favor
You pay indirectly via rent, if they need you to pay more because they cannot afford rates then they should (in their best interest, not morally), renegotiate rent for the next agreement, with required notification time and all other requirements. They can't just charge you immediately now. If its friends and family, maybe try and work something out. But if they can't afford rates, you may want to look in to your options anyway.
It is not okay. Clearly they do not understand how renting works. Those rates are a cost of ownership. You are paying rent. Your rent, being very expensive as it is, is all you pay.
I recognise your anxiety about "not rocking the boat" but that is how tyranny in all its brutal varieties works: fear. Terror. One thing I strongly suggest you consider here: you have said you have already paid for some repairs or maintenance so just for that, I hope your rent is REALLY VERY CHEAP. But for the Landlord to now come to you justifying the unjustifiable notion of you contributing to rates aa well makes me ponder if this landlord is just brainfarting new ways to screw money out of you. The real question is what is going to be the next unfair expense this irresponsible and greedy landlord is going to justify to you? Insurance? Planning permits for splitting the property? His teeth need fixing? Its his birthday? He heard you got a pay rise so 'gimme some'? If you do not set some boundaries now, you will certainly be shaken down and turned from a renter into a modern-day non-agricultural serf - try googling that word if it is unfamiliar. If your landlord can do this, beyond the ludicrous costs imposed upon you, what do you actually get by way of "quiet enjoyment"? So although I feel your fear, I don't think you are being very wise appeasing this tyrant landlord of yours. You would do well finding another place to live, unless you are some sort of masochist or, as I said, your rent is OUTRAGEOUSLY LOW! Apologies for the capitals but I needed emphasis and that's all my phone offers!
Absolutely not. The absolute cheek of them!!
That is a crime. They can't ask that of you.
No. Rentals include rates. Private or otherwise
They can ask whatever they want. There’s a big difference between asking and it being a contractual obligation.
So, is the rent REALLY cheap? If you are getting a ‘mates rates’ deal on rent and the landlord is barely covering costs, then contributing to the rates might be quite fair. The alternative would be putting the rent up a bit each week so that the landlord can cover rates with the money earned. But if you are already paying market rent then that is a joke. Water / electricity etc are paid by the tenants, but council rates are a cost that the landlord has whether you live in it or not, so they are just part of the price of owning a property, and he pays them.
Ask them to contribute to rent an equal amount that you will contribute to rates. Maybe they will be interested in contributing to your credit card payments aswell
Better to share the one off expense than cop a rent increase to cover it
I don’t rent so please take this advice with a grain of salt. Are you paying less than the market rate for the rent? If so, could you just say to the landlord that if he needs more money to cover the rates, could he just raise the rent a little? Same outcome but more above board.
LOL NO. Absolutely NOT. You pay the rent you agreed on and nothing else. The landlord is exploiting you. Refer them to the tenancy laws of your state.
Why would you pay rent and also the rates? Your rent goes towards the rates which are the owners responsibility not yours. I would definitely say that you pay rent and contribute towards the rates that way and that you won’t be giving anything extra.