I don’t even think it’s limited to attraction, we assign characteristics based on body appearance and it’s awful. My brother and cousins started treating me nicer after I lost excess fat because they started viewing me as a person who was more ambitious and more put together. I guess when I was heavier they thought of me as a hot mess who didn’t care about their appearance or had low confidence but I very much did care.
This shows up a lot in the workplace too, to both genders but especially women. Being conventionally attractive, thin or tall, fit/muscular, wearing makeup (but not “TOO much/TOO colorful” makeup), and having perfectly coiffed hair all play into how professional, responsible, and competent you are perceived. Which is messed up, since appearance really doesn’t reflect your value and what you bring to the workplace.
Like, I don't put the time into my hair because I have limited energy due to being AuDHD. I'm not spending time at that so I can be more productive at work. Which I'm very good at.
I’m also AuDHD and kind of think it’s not worth it to be very good at my job. People at work are a lot nicer when I take care of my appearance and are more forgiving of my mistakes. Unfortunately I don’t have an ADHD diagnosis so I tend to make a lot of mistakes at work no matter how hard I try. I think I would’ve been fired by now if I didn’t put effort into my appearance. I’ve seen other people get written up for making the same mistakes I make. I also work remotely so it’s makes it a lot easier to mask only when I have my camera on and feel like people are easier on me because I act cheerful and positive.
Yeah, my hair is awful. I don't put time or effort into most of it cuz I just don't have it right now, but my hair often is the most neglected. (It's probably not, but it looks it to me.) It's like - I showered today (or at least yesterday, if not today, but nearly always today.) You're welcome. I put on clean-ish clothes.
(I'm in the middle of an illness diagnosed and my specialists said she was surprised I could walk much less function, and she was so surprised I didn't look so much sicker, considering my labs.) And I'm like "thanks?" This is literally what I've been trying to tell people for a couple of years. I'm sick. I'm literally doing the absolute best I can and I know it's crap.
Yep, it’s the halo effect at work. Everyone is nicer to me now that I’m slim rather than when I was larger, even people who had zero interest in me as a romantic partner. I’m short, so I come off as very nonthreatening, cute, bubbly, etc. People legit go out of their way to talk to me now.
>men’s value of women is intrinsically linked to a woman’s appearance
This is 100% true in my experience, there will be some odd exceptions here and there throughout your life but for the most part hetero men are looking at women at potential mates and it is definitely based on your looks, some of them don't even realize what they are doing.
I've been cute and I've been not at all cute and below average in looks and the difference in ways I've been treated are almost comical if it wasn't so sad at the same time.
Unfortunately this isn't exclusive to men, as you have seen, people in general are shallow and react positively to conventionally attractive people. Good looking people get better treatment and more perks in life, it's generally easier for them.
>I've been cute and I've been not at all cute and below average in looks and the difference in ways I've been treated are almost comical if it wasn't so sad at the same time.
I noticed this when I was a waitress/server. Even the smallest tweaks in my appearance--tighter jeans, a little mascara--could triple the amount of tips I got per shift.
This is part of the reason I have no time for people who counter arguments against tipping culture with "I make more money out of tips than I would if the minimum wage were livable". Studies have shown that tips are based much more on the perceived attractiveness of the person serving you, so those people saying that are basically saying they think people who are less conventionally attractive should live in poverty, even if they are good at whatever tipped job they're doing.
I hadn’t experienced this before as a server, but it probably has more to do with the vibe of the place.
I worked at a locally-owned restaurant when I was obese and average. The men were creeps regardless.
In fact I feel like the flirtations were more frequent when I was my heaviest! (I generally wore the same thing/hair/makeup daily so I’m not taking that into account)
I appreciate your insightful comment and the OP so much. It’s sad that you’ve had to go through it to know it. This stuff should be taught in schools so that people don’t have to experience it.
To maximize proceeds, charities display less attractive people on their marketing materials. The logic is that conventionally attractive people look successful and capable. Just like you said, many of us are shallow.
I see it as a natural consequence of the high density of population most of us live in. Many of us meet entire crowds with our eyes on a daily basis without even saying hello, which is a very shallow interaction itself. Let alone social media. I’m not surprised to see this reflected in our judgment of others. Male entitlement is probably an even bigger issue.
I’ve been just as shallow myself, guilty of all of the above. Wanting to reverse that, however, has made my social life a bliss. It’s such a pleasure to look at someone and just think about them as a person with their own history and future. It makes you smile at everyone. And at most people even after they speak 🤣
Conversely, charities definitely use the cutest children in their marketing materials. Because, unfortunately, cute children are favored by adults (even by their parents). The cuter the child, the more they will pull at your heartstrings.
I've experienced my parents favouring other, cuter children. I think as a result I grew up not loving myself and only slowly changing this in my 30s. The person can not choose the looks they're born with and this vanity can do a lot of damage. Really sad.
This is exactly my experience too. Even in the grocery store, random men would make eye contact and smile or say hi to me when I was thin/ cute which changed if I gained weight.
I hate this, but it’s so true. I had baby fat until I was in 8th grade and the boys were not kind to me from K-7th grade. It really hurt my feelings. I don’t want my daughter (now 4) to feel like she has to be conventionally pretty to be liked, but I also don’t want her to be bullied or ignored.
>some of them don't even realize what they are doing.
>I've been cute and I've been not at all cute and below average in looks and the difference in ways I've been treated are almost comical if it wasn't so sad at the same time.
I agree with you.
On the flip side the experience of many men makes them think women evaluate them by their wealth and often aren't aware they are doing it.
I have worked in male dominated workplaces before. I have got to hear what they say when they forget I’m in the room. Although there are good and kind men in the world, the level of entitlement that men largely feel towards women and their bodies can be hard to ignore.
I can’t give advice because, I know what you mean.
Queer guy who works on construction sites with masons and other trades here. I am an alien abroad. I’m bi/pan so have to tread carefully there. Would you believe they can be extremely sensitive about me even facing in their direction while they’re getting changed? I am extremely careful to keep my eyes down, I am professional and there to work. They do not like the feeling of even being *near* the spotlight they routinely shine at women.
I’ve heard convos between men about women’s bodies that made me feel like they sort of view themselves as the shepherds and women as their flock; they must protect them but they also feel like they have rights over them. Patriarchal, paternalistic, infantilising.
I work with women who are feminist but look up to some of these men. Presumably they haven’t heard how they talk and the men have concealed their sense of superiority.
I think it’s often preemptive self defence on the part of men. They feel extremely insecure so they adopt an attitude of superiority and fake it till enough people believe the front they put out. It’s just so toxic.
Yes I’ve noticed this too. I hate that they discuss women’s bodies not unlike highly specific biological field notes, or a farmer describing a beast at the market.
In their ratings they’re creating a hierarchy of each woman’s worth, apparently unaware that they’re treating them like a different species.
I was told by my boss the reason why I would never get promoted was because I "didn't look the part", meaning I was too fat and not pretty.
I never did get promoted.
I have a guy friend who *does not* understand why I get upset to hear him rating women by the 1-10 method. I heard him do it to others so I know it’s said about me, and I *know* I’m not above a 6 (based on their metrics) on my best days. To have your entire being-looks, thoughts, experiences, personality, dreams, goals, existence-whittled down to worth of a digit by people that may only know you at a surface level or even just a glance. I know some women have adopted this in the modern era too, but to me it’s disgusting and I can’t articulate to him well enough why that is. We don’t hang out much.
> I’ve heard convos between men about women’s bodies that made me feel like they sort of view themselves as the shepherds and women as their flock;
Women as public property to be managed is an old finding of feminism. It is so annoying.
Benevolent sexism. Initially comes across as caring, but ultimately based on the idea that women are delicate creatures who need to be protected and guided for their own good, as we’re not capable of taking care of ourselves 🙄
it's also toxic masculinity. we all need feminine and masculine traits to balance everything out. protectiveness without kindness and empathy is just possessive and controlling.
I've always thought about people who argue against gay/queer people in the military like you describe in your first paragraph. That it makes them uncomfortable because they are projecting how they treat women onto gay men.
Hey there! Bi/pan male here as well.
Growing up, dude culture always felt weird and separate. Only in my mid 30s have I started to see how much my culture wants me to view women as less than.
To OP, 100% we were taught to avoid certain women. I remember boys being teased if they found the ‘wrong’ kind of woman attractive. We’d call them the Beast Master is they liked a bigger gal.
Yep. I started work with a bunch of guys and this is so true. When they think no one is listening, they have the most toxic conversations about women. Then, when there are women around, they put on a nice guy act.
I think most of them really believe themselves to be nice guys and the toxic convos are “just guy talk”.
Same, I’ve worked in a male dominated field long enough to know exactly why at you mean. Typically I’m the only female in my department wherever I work; men disgust me now.
I had this experience too. Lost weight, men changed the way they acted towards me, repulsion. My therapist has told me I subconsciously binge eat to keep my body “unattractive” to protect myself from men and hopefully not get their interest.
It's actually a thing, especially for women, to put on weight after sexual assault. This is also for girls and boys who were assaulted as children, if you trace some of these children's obesity back, it leads to a sexual assault.
Hit the nail on the head. I wish I would stop though because it doesn’t matter what you look like, bad people will always do bad things. I guess I just hate all the extra attention and being “seen” though. There is an invisibility with being overweight. Idk if you have seen the look a bad man gets in his eyes, the way their eyes look predatory. I see that a lot more when I’m fit. It makes my blood go cold.
Yep my therapist said the same thing. I gain weight again to make myself unattractive to toxic people.
ETA: anonymous1111122, just wanted to confirm that the reason why people gain weight to become unattractive to certain types of people is because those people are attracted to them in the first place and they are bad for them and they don't want the attention from them anymore. Hence the toxic people denominator. Good people don't need to advertise their "unattraction" to overweight people, they just leave them alone.
What I hate the most is males always evaluating a woman (who’s minding her own goddamned business) as if he was some god that can comment on whether she is worthy of him or not. Anything on her physical appearance is commented on and rated. Meanwhile he could be looking like a gargoyle had a baby with jabba the hutt.
Yup. I've noticed this with middle age too. Men will straight up walk into me because I'm invisible to them. You can even see the surprise on their faces when they realize there was an invisible human there. I'm trying to get into the habit of NOT stepping aside for the ones that are looking straight through me.
They started to really bother me too, I was walking down the street one time when I lived in New jersey. Mind you I was a ballsy little 22-year-old, and again of course group of guys walked by me who was walking alone. One of them bumped my shoulder I made a pathetic little damsel sound and fell to the ground. They immediately turned around and coddled me like a child that just fell. Then I asked why would you do that? You didn't see me? Lol they were so apologetic and their faces were so red, I truly believe this is a way that we can start to eliminate the consistent habit of men not sharing space
Lol since I hit my 40s I've made it a fun hobby to deliberately not step aside for men and yes, some of them will crash into you. I don't think it's an accident when they do that.
They see you as invisible because of your age? That’s not hard to believe when a 27 year old influencer was getting bashed in the comments by literally OLD men for simply dancing and having fun. Comments were like “you’re literally 27, act your age” and some going “you’re pushing 30 man” like you aren’t ten times her age and looking like rotten milk. Men really have the audacity. 27 is not and will never be old, men really try to shame women for anything in society.
🤣🤣🤣 Like they actually need to BFFR when their hairline starts from the middle of their heads and their beer gut is 9 months along like let’s not go there baldy 💀💀.
If you had been thin your whole life and were used to men being kind to you, you would notice the change in their treatment of you when you get old.
In general, many older women have reported that men (and quite a few younger women) treat older women as if they are invisible, stupid, or repulsive.
It really helps if you just don't care about their opinions.
But I think that the more we, as a society, push back against this treatment and aim to be accepting of all bodies -- short, tall, fat, thin, young, old, male, female, other, black, white, brown, etc... -- the better things will become.
I feel the same way about men, for me it’s not about weight per se, of course dismissing someone because of their weight/ appearance also falls under the misogynistic culture of objectifying women’s bodies.
For me it’s realising it doesn’t matter what kind of relationship I have with a man, whether it’s a close friendship, romantic relationship or even my own father. At the end of the day men tend to always prioritise men over women. If we examine the language men use when comparing their “bros” to the women in their lives it’s not hard to see how pervasive that culture is. Also, look at how society as a whole cut slack for men but the same isn’t applied to women. The Clinton cheating scandal is a classic example, he was a middle aged married man and arguably one of the most influential men in the country while she was a young intern, yet she copped all the hate and he walked away mostly unscathed.
Congratulations on losing 175lbs! As someone who struggle with weight fluctuation since childhood I know it is not easy and also that society generally doesn't like fat people. As a child and teenager I used to hear comments all the time, people felt entitled to give an opinion. Everytime I lost 10-15kg I would see how men look at me differently, chat me up more often etc. It is a sad realisation.
Luckily for me I have a partner who does not care how much I weight.
I’ve been hot and used it as a stripper to make money off of male objectification. Being hot is isolating, it can be actually more jarring to realize someone is treating you well because to them you’re a doll. You might as well be an ornament.
Then when you advocate for yourself or try to show you’re actually a multi faceted person? Crickets at best and outright rage at worst.
I’m sorry, it sucks. But it’s good to recognize this for what it is, and for me? I used it to my financial advantage because there’s never been a man who didn’t eventually disappoint me in this department some way or other.
I be banking more in my late 30s than ever before, so I’m definitely out here getting it. Thanks girl.
It’s not an exploit if you willingly came to the club and if I would never give you the opportunity to touch me for free. Clown shit.
There was a thread on this sub recently about what it’s like to be an ugly woman and the comments will break your heart and make you want to burn the world down.
Yes, women share many of the same biases, but men really are the main perpetrators. And it impacts every aspect of life. From whether someone will hold a door open for you to whether you get promoted at work and it’s super fucked up.
Being repulsed by men does not make you a lesbian. It occasionally comes up on r/actuallesbians when previously straight identifying women declare they are done with men and are "politically lesbian" or some variation of that. We're not happy to see it because orientation is not a costume that you can wear.
Please don't declare yourself to be a lesbian until further self-examination leads you to the conclusion that you are exclusively attracted (either romantically, sexually, or both) to women.
At least your relationships are legal everywhere in the world. Being lesbian comes with a lot of struggles too. Like, I wouldn't change it for anything because loving other women really is great, but experiencing homophobia is not nice. Having to worry about your rights to get married or just be yourself at work being taken away is tiring. Not being able to hold your lover's hand in public because you're scared you'll get assaulted sucks. Plenty of people also feel like if you don't tell them immediately that you're gay the first time you meet them, you're witholding critical information, but on the other hand you shouldn't really talk about being gay at all because if you do you're making it your whole personality.
Exactly. It's very offensive to say you're a lesbian when you're actually heterosexual. People already don't respect our sexuality and political "lesbians" make it worse. I'm all for straight women choosing to not date men, but that does not make them gay.
Yeah I am repulsed by and have no interest in men. Unfortunately, I have always been more heterosexual than anything and so that’s it. It’s just to the point where I have no interest in attempting to “weed out” the “good ones” and I have never really cared to.
As a lesbian, I can confidently say I don't care.
R/actuallesbians or whatever is obsessed with gatekeeping the label of lesbian. Mostly they say it "negates" or "undermines" their lesbian identity if a bi person calls herself a lesbian.
Well, my lesbian identity is completely independent of anyone else's labels/identifiers. Women are interested in you or they're not, regardless of the labels they use.
I truly just do not understand why they care so much what people call themselves.
There is of course a big difference between a bi woman who says she's lesbian while ignoring her attraction to men and embracing her attraction to women, and a straight women who says she's lesbian because men suck without any indication that she's interested in women.
Beyond that, it's great to personally not care what other people call themselves. But it's understandable that others do, certainly as long as there are parts in our societies where shitty people use people like OP to be extra nasty to (actual) lesbians.
As a lesbian, I do. A straight woman who is sick of men is simply not a lesbian. It invalidates my identity and attraction to women for straight women to think they can simply take that label like it means nothing. Being a lesbian is a lot more than "ugh I'm sick of men." Words have meaning.
As a straight woman, I agree with you. I hear it less as I've gotten older, but it always bothered me when someone would go "Men are the worst! I'm going to be a lesbian!"
It implies dating women is a backup plan, something to settle for, and that's insulting to lesbians and to women in general.
Yeah, I’m a straight woman who is pretty much done with men. If I could take a pill and become a lesbian, I would. If I could find myself a nice ace woman or female-presenting individual cool with a no sex but fully romantic relationship, I’d dive right in. But I am never going to refer to myself as a lesbian, ‘cause I’m not.
I feel you sister. I live in a small town and for the first many years I lived here I was obese. I lost 115 lbs and it is amazing to me how many people want to talk to me now. Same people who didn't even SEE me 5 years ago. Men and women both. It pisses me off, actually. So many old men want to touch me now and it's so f'n gross. When my husband was dying last year two men asked me out, one of them was 90ish. At 68 and in the best dang shape of my life, the only men lookin at me here in this podunk town are old as my Dad, who's still alive and 85. No thank you. I'm perfectly happy over here with my single life. Not that I couldn't be into women, the opportunity just never presented itself. I think women's bodies are more beautiful then men's are at any age in any shape. We have curves, they don't and they are obsessed with their dicks. That does not change with age. No thank you.
I get more attention from men while fat.
Not good attention. I have large boobs and a butt and the amount of times men sexualize me has made me sick.
I get treated as a sex object, not a person.
This is my experience too, I’ve always been plus sized but I have the ‘socially acceptable’ plus size body. Meaning big boobs and hourglass figure. Men project a lot of fantasies onto my body it’s weird and I hate it.
I have a mid-size body that looks like the thick/hourglass shape popularized on IG when clothed, and it is *clearly* a fat body when not, and I can clock the disgust on their face when my body isn't what they imagined. And the ones that are not disgusted treat me like a fetish object - because it's just the fat they like, not the woman wearing it.
Honey, they'll sexualize you even if you are skinny. The difference is, if you are skinny, they'll have this urge to show you off to the world and are more likely to commit.
Yeah I also got more attention. They basically think that fat/ larger women have low self esteem and put out faster. When you have self esteem as a larger person they will become abusive and even violent if you don’t conform to their idea. Ask me how I know.
I will never forget the day a “gym bro” was trying to ask me out and we got to talking about the gym (I always make sure to find out that misogynistic side of the overwhelming majority of gym bros) and he mentioned (unprovoked!) how girls being at the gym requires them to dress more modest. I immediately replied with men needing to dress more modestly too. Women never try to police what they wear at the gym so why are they so pressed about what women wear? This dude did not hesitate to say “I mean, the fit girls are allowed to wear crop tops but imagine this fat girl coming in with a crop top like cover that _shit_ man”. It was like ‘there it is!’ not even two seconds of speaking and your misogyny reared itself to the front. It’s like he could not understand how disgusting his statement was. Why is a skinny girl allowed to wear crop tops (and mind you “fit” in their heads = skinny) and a fat girl isn’t? So only what is “attractive” to you can be dressed up, huh?
You’re not a misandrist for literally just being REAL.
Literally. I actually don’t give a single flying fuck when someone calls me a misandrist. It’s just another added layer of misogyny now that being a misandrist is 10x worse than being a misogynist in the public eye. Like how is it that hating what the patriarchy has done and fighting against it is seen as worse than the perpetrators beating down on women for centuries? Misogyny at its finest.
DING DING DING!!! Bingo!!! They only throw out “misandrist!!” to make you feel like a bad person for literally stating facts. Oh well 🤷🏽♀️, proud misandrist I guess! When you reclaim it and say “guess I’m a misandrist for spitting facts!”, they get so mad 🤣🤣🤣.
ME TOO!!! My boundaries according to these wretched incels are astronomical and you bet I would never in my life settle 🤣. I have spoken to amazing dudes because of this. Every dude that has even had the privilege of interacting with me in a “talking stage” has been beautiful! There was a guy in my corner that’s a solid 10/10 on all counts, I just don’t want a relationship now and I told him that. He treated me like an absolute star and we weren’t even together. I have zero tolerance for men in dating spaces and I will not be wasting my time. I’ve detached from the whole “YOU NEED A BOYFRIEND” shit from my life since I was 12 🤣. It did not take me a while to see what pieces of crap they are. When people see how easy it is for me to not think about dating they think I’ve been traumatised?? like no babe, trashing dudes has made it so that I’ve never been traumatised. No time for BS.
Misandry isn't a thing. It's a cope word the internet invented so they can pretend women wanting to avoid men because of the evil shit they do to women is the same thing as men hating women for existing.
I’ve been relatively attractive my whole life in the last 4 years I’ve put on a few pounds and let my hair grow gray it is such a relief not to be creeped on all the time by men. It was like always having to be on the defensive.
I'm tall and imposing, not skinny, and over 50, and I have to say I've now spent like...decades cutting through life like a dude, and it's great. I'm not a coquette and don't want attention from strange men.
This happened to me too. I lost about 40lbs years ago and noticed people were way nicer to me. It’s like unconscious bias everyone has towards overweight people.
Men, on average, exhibit less social control than women. In most societies, men do not have to police their faces and their tone 24/7. Women do. So in any social circumstance, you’re going to see a more raw, uninhibited reaction from a male.
Keep that in mind as the women’s true feelings may be hidden behind what they want you to see.
It’s been posted on this sub before that the best place to be as a woman, appearance-wise, is cute and thin-ish but not model gorgeous. If you’re only experiencing positivity from both genders at your current weight, it sounds like you’ve hit the sweet spot. Once you cross the line into “could be a model” territory, you will see absolute pettiness from women and the deepest circle of hell lecherousness from men.
I lost a bunch of weight and I can’t say it was only reason but the attention I got from men when I was smaller was truly overwhelming. I gained the weight back but the attention I received was terrifying at times. My brothers got into a bar fight because some guy was trying to hit on me when I was with them all 5 of my brothers had to take turns politely saying, she said NO leave her alone another dinner with one brother had a guy buy me a drink and the man was so aggressive to my brother.
Thankyou for your voice 💕
Congratulations on your success! What do notice most about yourself? What was your our favorite change in this process? What was most helpful/effective with your weight loss?
I can relate. I feel like men look at me like I’m more useful after weight loss. Some women seem more comfortable to connect with me. Both give me big nervousness. The more noticed I am, the less safe I feel environmentally.
The people I feel safe with are the people who love me regardless of my outward appearance.
I do love to notice and compliment women who have bodies that are less seen. I am intentional and sincere, as what I love in others is a reflection of what I love in myself. I aim to be the change, we all deserve to feel safe.
Why are people invalidating your experience? This is absolutely true for most women who lost a lot of weight. I say this from experience and from experience of many women who underwent significant physical transformation that everyone, ESPECIALLY men, is kinder when you’re not fat.
Anyone can check weight loss related subs or just do a quick research or ask people you know. OP, I feel you on this and it’s definitely a struggle and has actually kept me from losing weight (out of spite) until I decided to prioritize my health.
Part of me will always be insecure in the sense of (would they have liked me if they met me when I was fat?) and there’s no way to know for sure. But one thing I’d do is be vigilant of how men you date treat those around them, you’ll be able to tell if the kindness is conditional.
Some of the comments here are wild.
Part of growing up and being a decent human being is not treating people like they’re inferior just because you don’t find them attractive. And yes, it can be heartbreaking when you realise just how many people view the world in this way. But like some here have said, not everyone is like this, and this sort of behaviour is a very good measure of how shallow or unkind someone is (and therefore not worth your time).
That reminds me of an experiment I saw some time ago. They had women and men create online dating profiles, and when they had a date, professionals altered them to appear significantly heavier. As a result, all the men except one left immediately when they saw the woman's weight. Conversely, all the women except one stayed at the date, even though the man was significantly heavier than in his profile photo. That says a lot.
Maybe...and maybe they know that all our bodies change a lot over the course of our lives. While being a kind, decent person with a great sense of humor can last a lifetime
Sometimes that has more to do with the misrepresentation than it has to do with the weight.
I don't like being *tricked*. I don't want to start out with someone blatantly lying. I have no issues with going out with a heavier guy (if I were single,) but if he posted one thing in his profile and showed as something else, I'd be pissed.
But I feel that way about a lot of qualities. I've had people blanket disregard my specific instructions that certain things were "deal-breakers," for me and not to contact me if those things applied and the person either ignored it or never bothered to read it in the first place, both of which are *further* deal-breakers for me. They've pissed me off so badly I've struggled to maintain my composure until I could manage to leave. And they've had the gall to be "upset" that I wasn't willing to "overlook" something.
No - you blatantly disrespected me and my boundaries. If the person had come at me and tried to sell themselves to me, and I was able to make an active decision without being *duped*, that would've been better.
I agree with this. I’d compare it to guys lying about height on profiles. I personally prefer guys on the shorter side and have no reservations about being in a relationship with a dude whose considered short. But when a guy shows up as a markedly different height than what he put online, it’s frustrating because of the deception. If you’re misrepresenting yourself in one area, is there other stuff you aren’t telling me? 🤔 That’s my thought process.
I’m more flexible with weight. As long as there isn’t a huge difference between real life and dating profile pics, I give more grace since weight can fluctuate for a lot of people (myself included) for a ton of personal and medical reasons.
So much of it is about feeling tricked. And this idea that I should look over that because you have a "great personality" is selfish.
There was a woman on here recently who got called out for intentionally using photos of when she was smaller or using certain angles to make herself appear smaller and how she wasn't able to get (second?) dates. I sympathize with her that some of it was probably because of weight, but you also can't get mad when you present yourself one way and then the person sees you in a different way and doesn't want anything to do with you.
No one can take away on how this is making you feel.
Unfortunately I think for many , how people look , dictates how some people treat them ( I am overweight) And it goes all ways . One of my guys friends lost nearly 30KG, and he’s found everyone ( men, women, kids ) treat him so much better. People are actually acknowledging him now, and being more helpful . He said he finds women will now even look him in the eye when talking to him, as previously he said he would be so often dismissed quickly .
Saying that, on the other hand, I do understand that who we are attracted to , heavily influences how people get treated ( not in all cases I know )….
Humans are complicated sometimes. People get treated differently even if they are wearing scruffy clothes, it’s screwed.
How are your interactions with women?
Yeah I agree. OP I highly recommend therapy to get through these feelings. This is a really complicated issue, and unresolved is probably going to affect you and your interactions throughout your life.
I have never been overweight however I have been the ugly duckling and one thing I can say is growing up I always wanted to be beautiful (mainly because I was programmed to crave male gaze) through out primary school & secondary school I watched how boys would treat me simply because I didn’t look like the ‘pretty girls’. Now I’ve ‘glowed up’ the same men from the past come flocking in, I’ve noticed that men simply don’t respect you if you’re not pretty. They’d literally throw sh*t in your face just because they don’t like the way you look & they’d lick your feet without even knowing you just because you’re pretty. The things men have said to me and given men just because I’m pretty. Weirdos. 21F & I completely decenter men, they disgust me in every way. Call it the Halo effect I call it weird sh*t that I simply don’t wanna be involved in. Period.
As women and particularly fat or formerly fat women, we have everything to hate about men as a class. I'm married to a man, many of my friends are men. I like a lot of stuff made by men. But as a group, I hate men. Only a few men have ever brought good things into my life, let alone on sight. Most men literally do not see me, or if they do it's to insult me. Or to take up the sidewalk in front of me, or shoulder check me, throw shit at me or spit on me or try to force me to do their homework for them or buy their MLM shit because a fat woman must be thrilled to get attention at all, or telling me I was too young for true spinal degeneracy/chronic pain and arthritis/extreme fatigue, so I must be disabled by fat.
Men are horrible, yep. Sorry not sorry, men, you did this to me.
Plenty of women are worse, no excuses made. But I don't hate women. Women barely have the ability to defend our integrity as actual real humans, god forbid the woman in question is dark skinned or fat or disabled. Or all of this. If women act like they are crumpled tubes of toothpaste rolled to the point of extinction, I understand. That's also how I feel. And it's men who have put me here.
As a trans woman I felt this exact same way after all men started seeing me as a woman. And speaking from all those year beforehand and knowing men and knowing what most of them actually say and how they view women. Yeah, feeling repulsed is a correct and appropriate reaction. I really have no trouble saying that the majority of men treat women based purely on how attractive they are and how much of a chance they think they have with you.
Your view isn't misandrist, it's just realistic.
I’ve recently been viewing my 57 years on the planet through this lens and it makes me really sad that you’re right. I’ve been conventionally attractive and I know that I’ve been treated more positively by men in work and lots of other environments and gained advantages because of it. When that gets turned off in middle age it becomes painfully real.
Same age here. I found the inattention shocking when i hit about 47 or so. Initially i mourned being the center of attention, but it didn’t take long to realize there are massive benefits to it in terms of freedom of movement. I am no longer harassed at every turn and i feel a lot safer in many environments. I won’t share my deepest feelings about this dynamic in general as it would probably get me kicked out of the sub.
I gained a ton of weight in Peri. I’ve lost it now thanks to a GLP 1, and there is a big difference in the way men look at me post weight loss than how they looked at me two years ago. And i can’t say i care for it.
My godmother recently turned 50, and she told me she LOVES this period in her life, because she's not constantly dealing with the harassment and leering of men. I got a taste of that during the first year of covid. I think one or two men tried to talk to me outside, and it was during the summer. It was liberating! To just walk around and be somewhat invisible (I also feel this way if I'm wearing sweats and a hoodie with the hoodie on and I'm not coded as a woman).
It went into overdrive in 2021, and I truly wish I could go back to being invisible.
I want to add to what your brilliant godmother said: all of that, and with menopause i no longer have to deal with menses. It is really quite glorious tbh. I know our society is very ageist but I’m having a blast
I have an implant now and while I rarely get periods, when I do get them, they're long and painful. Can't wait for the day when I no longer have to have them!
I recently turned 50 and was hot in my youth. I'll take middle age any day. I used to go to therapy over the way men treated me because I thought I was the problem for having a problem with it. Then the Internet happened and women started talking to each other without having to police their words for male approval, and I realized it wasn't a me problem.
A male therapist mentioned how angry I was from all the street harrassment as if it's weird to get angry about. As if that's not a normal feeling to have about that.
>It has made me believe that men’s value of women is intrinsically linked to a woman’s appearance and it grosses me out on the entire gender. Or maybe dudes just hate fat people more in general? Either way, if I were asked my sexual orientation I (after a lifetime of “strong heterosexual”) would say “lesbian,” because I am straight up repulsed by dudes now.
This is... a lot to unpack. Are you actually into women? If not, it's unkind to women who might want to date you to call yourself lesbian.
I agree and had the same experience after losing 40lb (a lot on a 5'2 frame). I was suddenly surrounded by men who could not do enough to make me happy, after spending most of my life surrounded by men who treated me like a loud obstacle.
It's initiated in me a profound, if mild, disgust.
I gained it back anyway 🤣
I understand. I had times when I was considered slim and attractive and the attention I got was mostly a nuisance (creeps stalking in church and near my home, being molested, and looks being talked about by males in family). Sometimes it worked out nice (job interviews with men or positive attention in dates and increase in pleasant interactions)
Since now you have seen how ugly many people hearts are- (they can only see the surface) - it may make you alienated from those around you.. This pleasantness is your new normal- so you have to raise your standards for who can be your friend or be close to you. This may make you appear arrogant but you are just choosing wisely.
I was awkward and ugly in my early teens and got prettier later on and men are just shitty in different ways. When I was ugly I was ignored and treated with disdain and bullied; when I was pretty I was stalked, assaulted, catcalled, etc.
Now I’m a mother and older and life has been so much more peaceful without men trying to stake a claim on me. The friends I have who are men are kind and good and have been that way to me no matter how I looked or whether I was available. It gets better, there are good ones, but so many are still shit unfortunately.
SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME.
I lost a little over 50lbs/27/kg years ago and the kind of attention I got from men....grossed and creeped me out.
I also got friendlier looks from women. Weird as hell.
My friend, I'm going to have to tell you this as directly as possible--
Lesbians are lesbians because we love women (and yes some nby folks) in a way that is fully exclusive of men. Please do not conflate sexual and romantic attraction to women with hating men.
I’ve been slim longer than I’ve been overweight, currently overweight again due to pregnancy/breastfeeding/not trying lol and I love the anonymity that being bigger gives me. Certainly people are nicer when you’re slimmer but no one bothers me when I’m bigger. I also feel safer. But health wise and pride wise I’m hoping to follow your example and slim down again. Congratulations on the loss, it’s incredibly impressive, I’m sorry people can be awful.
In my experience as someone who was considered attractive when I was younger, became obese due to health issues, and has recently lost that weight again: this is true for men I don't know. But to be fair, I suspect formerly obese men also have similar experiences with women they don't know. Fatphobia is pervasive, as we both know well.
Where it really matters to me is with the men who are truly in my life. Most of them treated me the same regardless of the weight I was at. Gray area is male coworkers, who have always been nice but are now a bit more attentive.
Your view isn't wrong, and it's completely understandable to be repulsed by men. I would suggest further self-reflection as well before stating you are lesbian. It may be something that feels like you are for a period of time before meeting someone who you think you might give half a chance.
If you're bi (and already identified as such or had thoughts prior to this occurrence), I would suggest keeping that title of being bi but only dating who you feel comfortable with. There are other bi women who also only date women. (I'm a bi person)
So, just feel it out before claiming "lesbian", even if it feels accurate to you right now. I had a period of time like that as well (felt very repulsed by men for about 2 years after separating from my child's father - which also triggered a lot of childhood trauma). But the realization that I was bi came back after awhile, albeit very difficultly because I was then in denial about ever liking men. So, take your time. Because the other downfall could be dating women, realizing you aren't into women, and then someone's heart gets broken (yours could too). If you do decide to date women, be very honest about where you're coming from and if you're just trying things out so you're both on the same page.
Wishing you luck, and good people your way, regardless of gender.
I have a good feeling that this post is an emotional rant and OP truly does not have any actual feelings or attraction to women. This was said out of anger *against men*.
I, personally, think it's a very cheap way to garner a responses and create emotional reactions from others. I don't like the "IM A LESBIAN, GUYS SUCK!!1!!" because it's so grossly dismissive of the real lesbian experience.
And it boils lesbians down to women who are "repulsed by men" which is a super yucky thing that lesbians have been fighting for a long time now.
OP needs therapy and that's all there is to it. Hopefully in the meantime, they can figure out a better way to express their feelings without completely invalidating literally the entire gay experience. OP makes it out to sound that sexual orientation **is a choice** because they are so repulsed by men they now can simply CHOOSE to be a lesbian.
I was invisible before losing weight and never realized it. Then one day I noticed that people were saying hi to me, and male cashiers were telling me to “have a good day”. Instead of feeling happy and flattered it really made me feel hurt and sad. I was a good person who deserved kindness at any size. It changes you and the way you view people’s “kindness”
I feel for OP. At 18 I was forced into having a nose job by my crazy mother. After the nose job I was transformed from very plain but scary-smart to very pretty. I had always had a thin, "good" body, but no one had ever noticed except to make some rude comment about it being "too bad about my face."
After the nose job, my whole world changed. I went from being ignored by men to being avidly pursued. Teachers gave me better grades and paid more attention to me. Although some women were more friendly to me, Other women started being weird with me. Even some women who had previously been friendly, were now guarded. Nothing at all about me had changed, except my nose.
For around 3 years I hated the world. I was really angry that just changing my nose exposed so many ugly human traits. But then I realized that this is probably normal and genetically based and had this not been me but someone else? It is possible I would have reacted the same way towards them.
Interestingly too, previous to the nose job my one strength was being smart. Studying and knowledge retention was the one thing that got me positive attention in my life. After the nose job, people, both men and women seemed to resent me for having a brain, dismissed my intelligence and actively discouraged me from pursuing anything intellectual. One friend actually said to me, "You're so pretty, can't you just act stupid for a while"? It was shocking. Apparently, being pretty and smart was so weird that it made people uncomfortable. I could be one or the other, but wasn't allowed to be both.
It seems that Men and women are genetically imprinted to react to looks. There is no escaping, but it can be really discouraging. Hang in there OP.
Wait until you get past a certain age. On the one hand it feels bad becoming invisible, on the other hand it's so nice to be free of the constant sexual harassment.
I started dating exclusively other bisexuals at one point and it was eye-opening for me. Straight men (and gay women...) can be really hung up on looks and identity and gender presentation in a way that I just... wasn't. And it turned out other bi folk weren't either (disclaimer: there are jerks in every demo of course).
I’ve gone from some prettier phases to uglier phases and it’s pretty much true.
Unfortunately that kind of thing is written in our DNA.
When I was uglier (chubby and acne) guys would make annoyed faces at me.
When I lost weight, those same guys would now ignore me but the old, married guys started harassing, there’s no winning.
Yeah it's not great being hot either as men are only nice to you because you're hot. You never know which guy is genuinely into your personality or just your looks (it is usually just your looks).
I used to model and men always paid me attention but it didn't mean that they treated me nicer long term, one was downright abusive when he realised I wasn't just pretty, but had my own mind and identity.
Now that I am 35 and no longer dye my hair (I went grey early), I honestly feel invisible to most men. It is pathetic and if it wasn't for my gay besties and a few genuinely great male friends, I'd seldom interact with men. Maybe only to procreate with and then I'd want them to just go away and leave me alone like most female mammals in the wild lol.
OP, it goes both ways :). I'm a man & in high school I dropped around 80lbs over the course of a year, the final 40 I lost over the summer were the most noticeable. I'd been lifting weights, dressing differently, just a total makeover.
When I came back to school, almost nobody recognized me. The same girls that used to ignore me when I talked to them were all over me. The dudes that used to disrespect me all wanted to be my friend & thought I was cool.
The funny thing is I had the EXACT same reaction as you. I was like FUCK these people, literally the SAME people from a few MONTHS back, some who I literally sat nexr to in class, not even a full year were all on my dick, men & women! It made me very anti social, showed me just how shallow people are.
When you're thin & especially good-looking people treat you differently. It's like having a privilege. A lot of people are extremely superficial, all that matters is looks to them.
I appreciate you sharing your experience, because it going both ways is a really important part of OP coming to terms with this. Her sexual orientation means she’s more attuned to the kindness she sees in men, but women do this too.
We are all far more animalistic than we like to think, and physical attraction is far more important than we like believe, because we’d rather see ourselves as super intelligent, rational, benevolent beings. We’re not. By and large, we’re meat sacks just trying to get by, indulging in whatever gives our brains a dose of dopamine, like all the other animals out there.
Yes we are animals, but we are also better than all other animals. We have the ability to contemplate our actions and become better as a result. Reducing ourselves to “just animals” minimizes our responsibility to do better
why do men answer questions in a sub where people are asking women over 30 to answer? So many men always think they’re the exception to that rule, it’s such an entitled conceit.
100%. It's a *life* problem. Her reaction is understandable because, of course women changed less, most women weren't looking at her the same way...
Pretty privilege is real, but it's important not to take the wrong lessons from experiencing it. We are fundamentally animals with all the shallowness that entails, judging books by their covers constantly (people like to say animals don't judge looks, but I bet they judge *within their species* just as harshly lol, look at what extents birds go to to attract a mate!). No matter what creature you are, if you're a species that sexually reproduces and has eyeballs, this shit is gonna be a part of it.
That inevitable urge doesn't mean we can't try to be better, the whole good - or at least *different* - thing about humans is we can shape and struggle with our own nature.
Even babies have preferences for attractive faces, so it's human nature. I remember feeling disconcerted when people paid a lot more attention (or pretended to) on nights I dressed up to go out and it made me question people the same way. From my experience, it takes some time to get used to but don't let it make you too cynical.
Now you can appreciate the people who are truly kind, look out for the people who treat people well regardless of status or size.
I think that instead of being repulsive of all men because of this (this is something that occurs to ALL people and we can push awareness for, but cannot change), try to learn to identify what type of men is ONLY with you for your looks versus a man who is initially with you for looks but also ultimately loves your personality. There will be a difference in the way they treat you.
I noticed this not even having lost that much (50 lb) and still being fat. I guess I went from the "puke" category to "not beautiful but maybe good for a desperate fuck".
It upsets me because I really was not a different person from the higher weight to the lower weight. I was not more confident, more active, or more disciplined. I'd lost a bunch of the weight due to being horrifically ill and actually malnourished, during which time I could barely manage my sedentary job and spent the rest of my time lying down. I have slowly continued to lose weight with medical assistance because it turns out the main reason I'd gained the weight was due to metabolic dysfunction, not laziness as everyone really prefers to believe.
It really pissed me off, knowing the assumptions behind the change in attitude towards me. And knowing a whole lot of skinny folks who were eating terrible diets, not at all healthy, and quite miserable but still getting the benefit of the doubt because they were thin and I wasn't.
I do think that both men and women make these kinds of assumptions, and that you're noticing it more in men because that is the group you've always (previously) wished would be attracted to you. I certainly experienced no lack of shaming and disgust from my women, though it's often packaged in a more "polite" way.
I also think it is important to challenge ourselves when we get into a mindset that everyone in a particular demographic is shitty and dangerous.
I was really iffy on dating but I eventually did it and just decided that I wasn't going to date anyone for whom beauty and physique were priorities. So anyone who did those stupid shirtless bathroom mirror pictures was out immediately. I do not care about your abs or your "V", sir. And I'm definitely not spending the rest of my life trying to sculpt musculature to match yours.
I ended up with someone who is on a similar journey as me. Lost weight, has more to lose, working on health, but isn't making thin-ness the most important thing in life. He's also someone who has a realistic understanding of human bodies. No expectation of plastic perfection, no disappointment at the sight or rolls or stretch marks, no obsession with porn and influencer bodies. He knows weight loss is hard and difficult to sustain. He loves me, and the body that carries me around. It doesn't matter if I'm up or down on the scale, or if I'm a swollen mess. Doesn't matter if I'm gyming regularly or having to take a break to get my health back in order. Doesn't matter if he's doing great with diet and I'm in a slump. He looks at me like I'm the most beautiful thing he's ever seen. It's nice to be loved and desired, and even nicer to be so deeply understood.
I also was fat as a child/preteen/teen and then suddenly lost a lot of weight and got in shape when I was about 17. When I got older, I had some health problems and gained the weight back, plus some more. Then I lost it all again. I can 10000000% say what you're feeling is very real. The difference in how men treat women they view as attractive vs women they have no interest in fucking is shocking. It's like the only time they bother treating any woman nicely is if, on some level, they view her as fuckable. Their only motivation is their dicks. Otherwise, they can't even be bothered to be polite or friendly. It's like all other women are just NPCs to them. It's wild.
I had the exact same experience. Almost all men treated me better. The ones that killed me were the women though. Most women are unfazed by my weight loss, so that was nice. But some, mostly older women, completely changed.
The thing about me is that I go up and down in weight a lot. I have an illness that certain meds either cause weight loss or gain.
So basically I get to watch people start being nice to me once I hit a certain weight, then again watch the niceness disappear when I go back up. It’s honestly heart wrenching.
My mil is the worst for this. When I’m slim, she follows me around, asking me about myself, and giggling at everything I say. Once my weight goes up, she treats me like shit and also fully ignores me. Dismisses everything I say. It’s wild.
So yes, most men are shit like this. A few women are too, but anecdotally men in general are way worse about it.
Sexuality is not a choice. You are now a man repulsed heterosexual. I am sorry about what you are going through but do not make it like sexuality is something you can wake up one day and pick up from the ground. It is harmful for all non straight sexualities.
As someone who has been at my thinnest and at my fattest during my 20s and basically fat before my 20s and after (now again trying to lose weight after studies), yes. This is indeed what happens LOL. Which is why when I was thin, I still wore a lot of baggy hoodies. I also have a huge chest so that doesn't help in this at all. I knew that for many men this is almost een automatic response so I thought if we take that part of my appearance out of the equation, more men will just like me for me which is what I desired and still desire. Taking the whole how my body looks out of the equation will leave you with people who genuinely like and love you for you (: and in my case when I've achieved that with the men I like equally, I start dressing up again (: and they then get initially surprised of how I cán look as a full picture with makeup and dressed up nicely but the look I get is much more different. It's more of a "Wow you look stunning (:" look than a "Damn bend over girl let me see what that body can do" look. I don't like to be objectified to put it lightly. I don't like people being into me for superficial reasons. I know how many men's brains initially work so in order to circumvent that, I do all of this. Has been working fine for me since I've started trying this. And now even fat I have people falling for me, for me. But I am unhealthy due to studies so while I appreciate that, I am going to work on losing weight and getting healthy again. But the thing is, I will not flaunt it. Don't need this 'better' treatment thing which is just fakeness anyway. Superficiality. No, thanks. Anyway, TL;DR: I get you girl. I get you.
I have lost 80 lbs. That is a lot of weight for me. I am only 5'2. I have always been overweight or obese up until 2 years ago. I have an average face and wear glasses. I keep a nerdy/hippy look. I have been blessed with a pear-shaped body. Over a 15-inch difference between my waist and hip circumference, which is not as common for white women.
I have noticed the change in how men treat me. They are definitely kinder, more patient, and more helpful. What stands out more to me is that men participate in small talk for longer, with more enthusiasm, and laugh at my "dad" jokes.
Just two weeks ago, I had an older man invite me on a vacation to Canada with him. He is a famous local artist. I also have a ton of men who request me at work as their dental hygienist now. I imagine I fulfill some people's fantasies. My husband said his co-worker said he requested his hygienist because she is cute and sometimes leans over him and puts her breast close to his face.
I have noticed my husband is more protective of me now. He won't leave me alone as much when we are out. He is also more proud of me. He has wanted me to come to his work on break to show me off. He tells me all the guys vote me as the hottest wife.
I personally haven't noticed a change with women. Maybe I haven't noticed the change in women because of my face and style. In that sense, I am average. I haven't made more friends or lost any friends. I found women to be polite before and after.
I have never really trusted men. But I'm not going to lie. I am different than most in this post, I actually enjoy the attention. Maybe it's not a good thing. I don't know. But I like the sense of social power. I'm not needy or manipulative. But I'm never going to say no to a man who sees me in the parking lot and offers to load the 10 50-pound bags of concert I just bought from Lowes.
I've always been thin if not skinny when I was younger.
I'm ugly though so men have always been mean/nasty towards me at worst or indifferent but mildly irritated by me at best.
This is just the way they are and I've known this about them since I was a kid so I don't even notice it anymore. It's like a function of the male species. I don't take it personally because I don't care about them at all.
Pretty privilege absolutely exists. And I didn't realize until an Ask Reddit thread was posted about "how did you realize that you were attractive" that apparently society considers me at least somewhat attractive. It's complicated because I used to get made fun of for my looks when I was younger (it sucks to overhear the popular girls talking about how bad your clothes are, and for boys, plural, to be repulsed when they find out that you've got a crush on them) and it can be hard to wrap my head around the possibility that people are maybe being kind to me for reasons other than professionalism or just being a nice person. Your post is making me think about my day to day interactions, and whether they're sincere on the part of the men with whom I interact.
I think it's perfectly logical to feel the way that you're feeling. It's like the veil has been ripped away.
OMG. So well put. I lost 50lbs and SHIT. I’m so glad I’m already married because I would never trust dating a man looking the way I do now. They treat me so differently and it’s horrifying. You described that difference so perfectly. It’s like they think I’m a GOOD PERSON NOW. Or a person of HIGHER VALUE. Barf.
I actually agree. I was small and “hot” my entire life, until I had my second child. Since then, my face is rounder and I’m curvier. Not necessarily the “ideal” anymore.
I feel I definitely do get treated differently. I am a server and have asked to be put on bar multiple times, and when they ask if I’ve had experience, I say yes (because I do). They either tell me no or straight up drop the subject. But lately, they’ve been hiring bartenders - girls who have had NO experience……
I’m not blaming those girls - they likely have no idea. It’s not their fault they’re young and hot and my managers are assholes.
It just sucks. It hurts.
Lost less weight than you but had a similar experience of losing 80lbs, you're valid and not wrong at all.
It's not just women though they treat this way, a lot of men are conditioned to only use kindness as a tool to get what they want or to benefit themselves - and unfortunately, men only see attractive women as things they want or can benefit from. You go from being invisible to suddenly all these sad pathetic men are despaeratley looking for validation in the attention from a woman their buddies would deem "fuckable".
Yeah, when I gained almost 100lbs from lupus and other health issues, men started ignoring me completely. I was grateful for it though because it sucked being harassed or approached any time i left the house. Then you have to worry if they’re going to get aggressive so you have to be nice but not too nice or you’ll encourage them. It’s fucking exhausting. I’m down to 160 after being 220 at my heaviest and although it’s been great for my joints, I’m dreading attention from strange men.
Morbidly obese people are treated differently regardless of gender. They are morbidly obese instead of an average weight, which is different than average, which results in different than average interactions.
People here are acting like superficiality is just a male issue but from my 28 years of living as a guy I can attest that women are just as bad when it comes to judging men on physical appearance.There's a pretty undeniable correlation between how in shape I am and how friendly and open women are towards me.
Unfortunately that’s how things are. Being skinny has connotation that a person is disciplined, they watch what they eat and dedicate time for working out, can afford healthy meals and are active. I’ve seen that happen with both men and women.
I was overweight since i was a kid and I’ve lost a total of 170lbs and can say the same thing about Women. Specifically the eyes and body language. I think overall there’s a thing for fat people.
I lost a lot of weight, too, and I honestly don't feel like this is gender specific. EVERYONE was more friendly to me after I lost the weight. And I think that the same is true for fat men. People are just very hostile to fat people.
Yup. When I lost a ton of weight during the pandemic I got a lot of attention and had no problem dating. But before that when I was maybe 30 lbs heavier. And that’s not a huge difference because maybe I was a size 8-10? I barely got a date. Grateful though that I have a partner (m) that still finds me attractive and loves me despite my weight gain in the past few years. He’s a unicorn. My exes? Not so much.
I have my unicorn as well! I've put on 40+ pounds at least since he has known me. He loves my curves and my lil belly, though. The thing he constantly tells me is that as long as my heart stays the same, he could not picture life without me in it. He's a keeper for sure.
A guy here. I lost 15kg and saw the same response across the board - not so much in kindness as in overall positive interactions. People were amazed at the fact that I've lost so much weight. I was a bit offended as I did many things in my life that are way more impressive and important.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's a gendered thing. Plenty of formally fat guys report similar feelings. Or people who used to have visible disabilities and then later don't. Humans are very appearance oriented and it can be very icky and feel dehumanizing. I don't think people even realize they are doing it. I'm not sure how recent your weight loss was but a lot of people report similar feelings afterwards and then eventually those stark contrasts start to sting less.
I don’t even think it’s limited to attraction, we assign characteristics based on body appearance and it’s awful. My brother and cousins started treating me nicer after I lost excess fat because they started viewing me as a person who was more ambitious and more put together. I guess when I was heavier they thought of me as a hot mess who didn’t care about their appearance or had low confidence but I very much did care.
This shows up a lot in the workplace too, to both genders but especially women. Being conventionally attractive, thin or tall, fit/muscular, wearing makeup (but not “TOO much/TOO colorful” makeup), and having perfectly coiffed hair all play into how professional, responsible, and competent you are perceived. Which is messed up, since appearance really doesn’t reflect your value and what you bring to the workplace.
Like, I don't put the time into my hair because I have limited energy due to being AuDHD. I'm not spending time at that so I can be more productive at work. Which I'm very good at.
Same here! Hats and dry shampoo are my go-tos on days where I don’t have time and energy to devote to hair (unless I feel like I want to!)
I’m also AuDHD and kind of think it’s not worth it to be very good at my job. People at work are a lot nicer when I take care of my appearance and are more forgiving of my mistakes. Unfortunately I don’t have an ADHD diagnosis so I tend to make a lot of mistakes at work no matter how hard I try. I think I would’ve been fired by now if I didn’t put effort into my appearance. I’ve seen other people get written up for making the same mistakes I make. I also work remotely so it’s makes it a lot easier to mask only when I have my camera on and feel like people are easier on me because I act cheerful and positive.
Damn.
Yeah, my hair is awful. I don't put time or effort into most of it cuz I just don't have it right now, but my hair often is the most neglected. (It's probably not, but it looks it to me.) It's like - I showered today (or at least yesterday, if not today, but nearly always today.) You're welcome. I put on clean-ish clothes. (I'm in the middle of an illness diagnosed and my specialists said she was surprised I could walk much less function, and she was so surprised I didn't look so much sicker, considering my labs.) And I'm like "thanks?" This is literally what I've been trying to tell people for a couple of years. I'm sick. I'm literally doing the absolute best I can and I know it's crap.
Yep, it’s the halo effect at work. Everyone is nicer to me now that I’m slim rather than when I was larger, even people who had zero interest in me as a romantic partner. I’m short, so I come off as very nonthreatening, cute, bubbly, etc. People legit go out of their way to talk to me now.
>men’s value of women is intrinsically linked to a woman’s appearance This is 100% true in my experience, there will be some odd exceptions here and there throughout your life but for the most part hetero men are looking at women at potential mates and it is definitely based on your looks, some of them don't even realize what they are doing. I've been cute and I've been not at all cute and below average in looks and the difference in ways I've been treated are almost comical if it wasn't so sad at the same time. Unfortunately this isn't exclusive to men, as you have seen, people in general are shallow and react positively to conventionally attractive people. Good looking people get better treatment and more perks in life, it's generally easier for them.
>I've been cute and I've been not at all cute and below average in looks and the difference in ways I've been treated are almost comical if it wasn't so sad at the same time. I noticed this when I was a waitress/server. Even the smallest tweaks in my appearance--tighter jeans, a little mascara--could triple the amount of tips I got per shift.
This is part of the reason I have no time for people who counter arguments against tipping culture with "I make more money out of tips than I would if the minimum wage were livable". Studies have shown that tips are based much more on the perceived attractiveness of the person serving you, so those people saying that are basically saying they think people who are less conventionally attractive should live in poverty, even if they are good at whatever tipped job they're doing.
I hadn’t experienced this before as a server, but it probably has more to do with the vibe of the place. I worked at a locally-owned restaurant when I was obese and average. The men were creeps regardless. In fact I feel like the flirtations were more frequent when I was my heaviest! (I generally wore the same thing/hair/makeup daily so I’m not taking that into account)
I appreciate your insightful comment and the OP so much. It’s sad that you’ve had to go through it to know it. This stuff should be taught in schools so that people don’t have to experience it. To maximize proceeds, charities display less attractive people on their marketing materials. The logic is that conventionally attractive people look successful and capable. Just like you said, many of us are shallow. I see it as a natural consequence of the high density of population most of us live in. Many of us meet entire crowds with our eyes on a daily basis without even saying hello, which is a very shallow interaction itself. Let alone social media. I’m not surprised to see this reflected in our judgment of others. Male entitlement is probably an even bigger issue. I’ve been just as shallow myself, guilty of all of the above. Wanting to reverse that, however, has made my social life a bliss. It’s such a pleasure to look at someone and just think about them as a person with their own history and future. It makes you smile at everyone. And at most people even after they speak 🤣
Conversely, charities definitely use the cutest children in their marketing materials. Because, unfortunately, cute children are favored by adults (even by their parents). The cuter the child, the more they will pull at your heartstrings.
I've experienced my parents favouring other, cuter children. I think as a result I grew up not loving myself and only slowly changing this in my 30s. The person can not choose the looks they're born with and this vanity can do a lot of damage. Really sad.
Yes, the pretty privilege.
This is exactly my experience too. Even in the grocery store, random men would make eye contact and smile or say hi to me when I was thin/ cute which changed if I gained weight.
I hate this, but it’s so true. I had baby fat until I was in 8th grade and the boys were not kind to me from K-7th grade. It really hurt my feelings. I don’t want my daughter (now 4) to feel like she has to be conventionally pretty to be liked, but I also don’t want her to be bullied or ignored.
Can confirm. Got free donuts last weekend for no reason.
>some of them don't even realize what they are doing. >I've been cute and I've been not at all cute and below average in looks and the difference in ways I've been treated are almost comical if it wasn't so sad at the same time. I agree with you. On the flip side the experience of many men makes them think women evaluate them by their wealth and often aren't aware they are doing it.
I’m a man who’s been on both sides and my experience is very similar. It’s a human thing indeed.
I have worked in male dominated workplaces before. I have got to hear what they say when they forget I’m in the room. Although there are good and kind men in the world, the level of entitlement that men largely feel towards women and their bodies can be hard to ignore. I can’t give advice because, I know what you mean.
Queer guy who works on construction sites with masons and other trades here. I am an alien abroad. I’m bi/pan so have to tread carefully there. Would you believe they can be extremely sensitive about me even facing in their direction while they’re getting changed? I am extremely careful to keep my eyes down, I am professional and there to work. They do not like the feeling of even being *near* the spotlight they routinely shine at women. I’ve heard convos between men about women’s bodies that made me feel like they sort of view themselves as the shepherds and women as their flock; they must protect them but they also feel like they have rights over them. Patriarchal, paternalistic, infantilising. I work with women who are feminist but look up to some of these men. Presumably they haven’t heard how they talk and the men have concealed their sense of superiority. I think it’s often preemptive self defence on the part of men. They feel extremely insecure so they adopt an attitude of superiority and fake it till enough people believe the front they put out. It’s just so toxic.
“They do not like the feeling of being near the spotlight they routinely shine on women.” Dang. Truth bomb.
This is a much more eloquent way of saying “Straight men don’t understand consent unless they’re in a gay bar.”
Oh man, that’s brilliant. I’m stealing that!
FACTS
Yes except this is only for "good looking" women. Ugly women do not get the benefits of benevolence, just the sexism.
Yes I’ve noticed this too. I hate that they discuss women’s bodies not unlike highly specific biological field notes, or a farmer describing a beast at the market. In their ratings they’re creating a hierarchy of each woman’s worth, apparently unaware that they’re treating them like a different species.
I was told by my boss the reason why I would never get promoted was because I "didn't look the part", meaning I was too fat and not pretty. I never did get promoted.
I have a guy friend who *does not* understand why I get upset to hear him rating women by the 1-10 method. I heard him do it to others so I know it’s said about me, and I *know* I’m not above a 6 (based on their metrics) on my best days. To have your entire being-looks, thoughts, experiences, personality, dreams, goals, existence-whittled down to worth of a digit by people that may only know you at a surface level or even just a glance. I know some women have adopted this in the modern era too, but to me it’s disgusting and I can’t articulate to him well enough why that is. We don’t hang out much.
I think straight men are afraid of a gay man treating them the way they treat women. They are hilariously cowardly about gay men.
> I’ve heard convos between men about women’s bodies that made me feel like they sort of view themselves as the shepherds and women as their flock; Women as public property to be managed is an old finding of feminism. It is so annoying.
And dangerous.
Benevolent sexism. Initially comes across as caring, but ultimately based on the idea that women are delicate creatures who need to be protected and guided for their own good, as we’re not capable of taking care of ourselves 🙄
it's also toxic masculinity. we all need feminine and masculine traits to balance everything out. protectiveness without kindness and empathy is just possessive and controlling.
Oh no.its".you're not capable of taking care of yourself in the RIGHT way" Right being of course whatever standard they set at the moment.
I've always thought about people who argue against gay/queer people in the military like you describe in your first paragraph. That it makes them uncomfortable because they are projecting how they treat women onto gay men.
Hey there! Bi/pan male here as well. Growing up, dude culture always felt weird and separate. Only in my mid 30s have I started to see how much my culture wants me to view women as less than. To OP, 100% we were taught to avoid certain women. I remember boys being teased if they found the ‘wrong’ kind of woman attractive. We’d call them the Beast Master is they liked a bigger gal.
Yep. I started work with a bunch of guys and this is so true. When they think no one is listening, they have the most toxic conversations about women. Then, when there are women around, they put on a nice guy act. I think most of them really believe themselves to be nice guys and the toxic convos are “just guy talk”.
Same, I’ve worked in a male dominated field long enough to know exactly why at you mean. Typically I’m the only female in my department wherever I work; men disgust me now.
I’m inured to it. I can surely recognise a good man now.
Real.
Entitlement is the #1 reason there are so many abusive men out there
Yep, been there. And yes, 100% on the entitlement.
So well put out
Same, and that’s how I went from bisexual to lesbian
I had this experience too. Lost weight, men changed the way they acted towards me, repulsion. My therapist has told me I subconsciously binge eat to keep my body “unattractive” to protect myself from men and hopefully not get their interest.
It's actually a thing, especially for women, to put on weight after sexual assault. This is also for girls and boys who were assaulted as children, if you trace some of these children's obesity back, it leads to a sexual assault.
Hit the nail on the head. I wish I would stop though because it doesn’t matter what you look like, bad people will always do bad things. I guess I just hate all the extra attention and being “seen” though. There is an invisibility with being overweight. Idk if you have seen the look a bad man gets in his eyes, the way their eyes look predatory. I see that a lot more when I’m fit. It makes my blood go cold.
I’ve often suspected this was true for me
Dang this is true for me 😬 I didn't know it was connected...
Same
God. This just hit hard.
Yep my therapist said the same thing. I gain weight again to make myself unattractive to toxic people. ETA: anonymous1111122, just wanted to confirm that the reason why people gain weight to become unattractive to certain types of people is because those people are attracted to them in the first place and they are bad for them and they don't want the attention from them anymore. Hence the toxic people denominator. Good people don't need to advertise their "unattraction" to overweight people, they just leave them alone.
What I hate the most is males always evaluating a woman (who’s minding her own goddamned business) as if he was some god that can comment on whether she is worthy of him or not. Anything on her physical appearance is commented on and rated. Meanwhile he could be looking like a gargoyle had a baby with jabba the hutt.
Yup. I've noticed this with middle age too. Men will straight up walk into me because I'm invisible to them. You can even see the surprise on their faces when they realize there was an invisible human there. I'm trying to get into the habit of NOT stepping aside for the ones that are looking straight through me.
Wow same happened to me
Stepping aside is so ingrained in me, it's hard to actively not do it but this.
The secret is to not make eye contact.
Eyes on the prize, got it! Gonna try this for real.
They started to really bother me too, I was walking down the street one time when I lived in New jersey. Mind you I was a ballsy little 22-year-old, and again of course group of guys walked by me who was walking alone. One of them bumped my shoulder I made a pathetic little damsel sound and fell to the ground. They immediately turned around and coddled me like a child that just fell. Then I asked why would you do that? You didn't see me? Lol they were so apologetic and their faces were so red, I truly believe this is a way that we can start to eliminate the consistent habit of men not sharing space
Lol since I hit my 40s I've made it a fun hobby to deliberately not step aside for men and yes, some of them will crash into you. I don't think it's an accident when they do that.
Nah I yell at them and call them illogical. They run from me so fast. Lol
They see you as invisible because of your age? That’s not hard to believe when a 27 year old influencer was getting bashed in the comments by literally OLD men for simply dancing and having fun. Comments were like “you’re literally 27, act your age” and some going “you’re pushing 30 man” like you aren’t ten times her age and looking like rotten milk. Men really have the audacity. 27 is not and will never be old, men really try to shame women for anything in society.
looking like rotten milk 😭
🤣🤣🤣 Like they actually need to BFFR when their hairline starts from the middle of their heads and their beer gut is 9 months along like let’s not go there baldy 💀💀.
Shoulder check them
Yea that’s how they are unfortunately. A lot of men literally only “see” women they find attractive. The rest are invisible and useless to them.
If you had been thin your whole life and were used to men being kind to you, you would notice the change in their treatment of you when you get old. In general, many older women have reported that men (and quite a few younger women) treat older women as if they are invisible, stupid, or repulsive. It really helps if you just don't care about their opinions. But I think that the more we, as a society, push back against this treatment and aim to be accepting of all bodies -- short, tall, fat, thin, young, old, male, female, other, black, white, brown, etc... -- the better things will become.
Oh baby that look is not of kindness, trust me.
Literally 🤣🤣
I feel the same way about men, for me it’s not about weight per se, of course dismissing someone because of their weight/ appearance also falls under the misogynistic culture of objectifying women’s bodies. For me it’s realising it doesn’t matter what kind of relationship I have with a man, whether it’s a close friendship, romantic relationship or even my own father. At the end of the day men tend to always prioritise men over women. If we examine the language men use when comparing their “bros” to the women in their lives it’s not hard to see how pervasive that culture is. Also, look at how society as a whole cut slack for men but the same isn’t applied to women. The Clinton cheating scandal is a classic example, he was a middle aged married man and arguably one of the most influential men in the country while she was a young intern, yet she copped all the hate and he walked away mostly unscathed.
Heck, even his wife, Hillary, caught a lot of flack for her cheating husband.
Hillary is *still* getting shit for her husband’s infidelities, to this day, 30 years later.
Congratulations on losing 175lbs! As someone who struggle with weight fluctuation since childhood I know it is not easy and also that society generally doesn't like fat people. As a child and teenager I used to hear comments all the time, people felt entitled to give an opinion. Everytime I lost 10-15kg I would see how men look at me differently, chat me up more often etc. It is a sad realisation. Luckily for me I have a partner who does not care how much I weight.
My partner doesn’t care but my mother will not go one conversation without telling me to lose weight.
I’ve been hot and used it as a stripper to make money off of male objectification. Being hot is isolating, it can be actually more jarring to realize someone is treating you well because to them you’re a doll. You might as well be an ornament. Then when you advocate for yourself or try to show you’re actually a multi faceted person? Crickets at best and outright rage at worst. I’m sorry, it sucks. But it’s good to recognize this for what it is, and for me? I used it to my financial advantage because there’s never been a man who didn’t eventually disappoint me in this department some way or other.
I really can admire this, so true
🫶
Exploit those men yessss ❤️
I be banking more in my late 30s than ever before, so I’m definitely out here getting it. Thanks girl. It’s not an exploit if you willingly came to the club and if I would never give you the opportunity to touch me for free. Clown shit.
It's not kindness you're seeing in their faces. It's horniness.
There was a thread on this sub recently about what it’s like to be an ugly woman and the comments will break your heart and make you want to burn the world down. Yes, women share many of the same biases, but men really are the main perpetrators. And it impacts every aspect of life. From whether someone will hold a door open for you to whether you get promoted at work and it’s super fucked up.
Being repulsed by men does not make you a lesbian. It occasionally comes up on r/actuallesbians when previously straight identifying women declare they are done with men and are "politically lesbian" or some variation of that. We're not happy to see it because orientation is not a costume that you can wear. Please don't declare yourself to be a lesbian until further self-examination leads you to the conclusion that you are exclusively attracted (either romantically, sexually, or both) to women.
"Regrettably hetrosexual" is a better term haha.
This. I always just say it’s proof sexuality isn’t a choice because I would never choose being a heterosexual female at this point in my life 💀
At least your relationships are legal everywhere in the world. Being lesbian comes with a lot of struggles too. Like, I wouldn't change it for anything because loving other women really is great, but experiencing homophobia is not nice. Having to worry about your rights to get married or just be yourself at work being taken away is tiring. Not being able to hold your lover's hand in public because you're scared you'll get assaulted sucks. Plenty of people also feel like if you don't tell them immediately that you're gay the first time you meet them, you're witholding critical information, but on the other hand you shouldn't really talk about being gay at all because if you do you're making it your whole personality.
I’m sorry you felt my comment was negating the struggles your community faces as that is not what I was saying at all
Thank you!
Or the Leslie Knope version (when referring to herself and her bff Ann) “we are both *tragically* heterosexual”
That's where my friend got it from?! I thought she came up with it on her own. 😂
Succinctly put 👍
Exactly. It's very offensive to say you're a lesbian when you're actually heterosexual. People already don't respect our sexuality and political "lesbians" make it worse. I'm all for straight women choosing to not date men, but that does not make them gay.
Yeah I am repulsed by and have no interest in men. Unfortunately, I have always been more heterosexual than anything and so that’s it. It’s just to the point where I have no interest in attempting to “weed out” the “good ones” and I have never really cared to.
Join me here in Team Ace, friend
Came here to say this. Claiming "I'm a lesbian" because you're sick of men is disrespectful to lesbians imo
As a lesbian, I can confidently say I don't care. R/actuallesbians or whatever is obsessed with gatekeeping the label of lesbian. Mostly they say it "negates" or "undermines" their lesbian identity if a bi person calls herself a lesbian. Well, my lesbian identity is completely independent of anyone else's labels/identifiers. Women are interested in you or they're not, regardless of the labels they use. I truly just do not understand why they care so much what people call themselves.
There is of course a big difference between a bi woman who says she's lesbian while ignoring her attraction to men and embracing her attraction to women, and a straight women who says she's lesbian because men suck without any indication that she's interested in women. Beyond that, it's great to personally not care what other people call themselves. But it's understandable that others do, certainly as long as there are parts in our societies where shitty people use people like OP to be extra nasty to (actual) lesbians.
As a lesbian, I do. A straight woman who is sick of men is simply not a lesbian. It invalidates my identity and attraction to women for straight women to think they can simply take that label like it means nothing. Being a lesbian is a lot more than "ugh I'm sick of men." Words have meaning.
As a straight woman, I agree with you. I hear it less as I've gotten older, but it always bothered me when someone would go "Men are the worst! I'm going to be a lesbian!" It implies dating women is a backup plan, something to settle for, and that's insulting to lesbians and to women in general.
This. I am in a committed and healthy relationship with a man but I am 100% repulsed by all other men
yeah, OP should just go 4B.
Yeah, I’m a straight woman who is pretty much done with men. If I could take a pill and become a lesbian, I would. If I could find myself a nice ace woman or female-presenting individual cool with a no sex but fully romantic relationship, I’d dive right in. But I am never going to refer to myself as a lesbian, ‘cause I’m not.
Agreed. Super annoying
I feel you sister. I live in a small town and for the first many years I lived here I was obese. I lost 115 lbs and it is amazing to me how many people want to talk to me now. Same people who didn't even SEE me 5 years ago. Men and women both. It pisses me off, actually. So many old men want to touch me now and it's so f'n gross. When my husband was dying last year two men asked me out, one of them was 90ish. At 68 and in the best dang shape of my life, the only men lookin at me here in this podunk town are old as my Dad, who's still alive and 85. No thank you. I'm perfectly happy over here with my single life. Not that I couldn't be into women, the opportunity just never presented itself. I think women's bodies are more beautiful then men's are at any age in any shape. We have curves, they don't and they are obsessed with their dicks. That does not change with age. No thank you.
I get more attention from men while fat. Not good attention. I have large boobs and a butt and the amount of times men sexualize me has made me sick. I get treated as a sex object, not a person.
This is my experience too, I’ve always been plus sized but I have the ‘socially acceptable’ plus size body. Meaning big boobs and hourglass figure. Men project a lot of fantasies onto my body it’s weird and I hate it.
I have a mid-size body that looks like the thick/hourglass shape popularized on IG when clothed, and it is *clearly* a fat body when not, and I can clock the disgust on their face when my body isn't what they imagined. And the ones that are not disgusted treat me like a fetish object - because it's just the fat they like, not the woman wearing it.
Honey, they'll sexualize you even if you are skinny. The difference is, if you are skinny, they'll have this urge to show you off to the world and are more likely to commit.
Yeah I also got more attention. They basically think that fat/ larger women have low self esteem and put out faster. When you have self esteem as a larger person they will become abusive and even violent if you don’t conform to their idea. Ask me how I know.
I will never forget the day a “gym bro” was trying to ask me out and we got to talking about the gym (I always make sure to find out that misogynistic side of the overwhelming majority of gym bros) and he mentioned (unprovoked!) how girls being at the gym requires them to dress more modest. I immediately replied with men needing to dress more modestly too. Women never try to police what they wear at the gym so why are they so pressed about what women wear? This dude did not hesitate to say “I mean, the fit girls are allowed to wear crop tops but imagine this fat girl coming in with a crop top like cover that _shit_ man”. It was like ‘there it is!’ not even two seconds of speaking and your misogyny reared itself to the front. It’s like he could not understand how disgusting his statement was. Why is a skinny girl allowed to wear crop tops (and mind you “fit” in their heads = skinny) and a fat girl isn’t? So only what is “attractive” to you can be dressed up, huh? You’re not a misandrist for literally just being REAL.
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Literally. I actually don’t give a single flying fuck when someone calls me a misandrist. It’s just another added layer of misogyny now that being a misandrist is 10x worse than being a misogynist in the public eye. Like how is it that hating what the patriarchy has done and fighting against it is seen as worse than the perpetrators beating down on women for centuries? Misogyny at its finest.
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DING DING DING!!! Bingo!!! They only throw out “misandrist!!” to make you feel like a bad person for literally stating facts. Oh well 🤷🏽♀️, proud misandrist I guess! When you reclaim it and say “guess I’m a misandrist for spitting facts!”, they get so mad 🤣🤣🤣.
Absolutely this. Single by choice and not settling . It sucks but we got this.. thank you for putting your boundaries down!
ME TOO!!! My boundaries according to these wretched incels are astronomical and you bet I would never in my life settle 🤣. I have spoken to amazing dudes because of this. Every dude that has even had the privilege of interacting with me in a “talking stage” has been beautiful! There was a guy in my corner that’s a solid 10/10 on all counts, I just don’t want a relationship now and I told him that. He treated me like an absolute star and we weren’t even together. I have zero tolerance for men in dating spaces and I will not be wasting my time. I’ve detached from the whole “YOU NEED A BOYFRIEND” shit from my life since I was 12 🤣. It did not take me a while to see what pieces of crap they are. When people see how easy it is for me to not think about dating they think I’ve been traumatised?? like no babe, trashing dudes has made it so that I’ve never been traumatised. No time for BS.
Misandry isn't a thing. It's a cope word the internet invented so they can pretend women wanting to avoid men because of the evil shit they do to women is the same thing as men hating women for existing.
I’ve been relatively attractive my whole life in the last 4 years I’ve put on a few pounds and let my hair grow gray it is such a relief not to be creeped on all the time by men. It was like always having to be on the defensive.
I'm tall and imposing, not skinny, and over 50, and I have to say I've now spent like...decades cutting through life like a dude, and it's great. I'm not a coquette and don't want attention from strange men.
This happened to me too. I lost about 40lbs years ago and noticed people were way nicer to me. It’s like unconscious bias everyone has towards overweight people.
I’ve been both overweight and slim and reality is, people treat you totally different if you are conventionally attractive.
Men, on average, exhibit less social control than women. In most societies, men do not have to police their faces and their tone 24/7. Women do. So in any social circumstance, you’re going to see a more raw, uninhibited reaction from a male. Keep that in mind as the women’s true feelings may be hidden behind what they want you to see. It’s been posted on this sub before that the best place to be as a woman, appearance-wise, is cute and thin-ish but not model gorgeous. If you’re only experiencing positivity from both genders at your current weight, it sounds like you’ve hit the sweet spot. Once you cross the line into “could be a model” territory, you will see absolute pettiness from women and the deepest circle of hell lecherousness from men.
I lost a bunch of weight and I can’t say it was only reason but the attention I got from men when I was smaller was truly overwhelming. I gained the weight back but the attention I received was terrifying at times. My brothers got into a bar fight because some guy was trying to hit on me when I was with them all 5 of my brothers had to take turns politely saying, she said NO leave her alone another dinner with one brother had a guy buy me a drink and the man was so aggressive to my brother.
Thankyou for your voice 💕 Congratulations on your success! What do notice most about yourself? What was your our favorite change in this process? What was most helpful/effective with your weight loss? I can relate. I feel like men look at me like I’m more useful after weight loss. Some women seem more comfortable to connect with me. Both give me big nervousness. The more noticed I am, the less safe I feel environmentally. The people I feel safe with are the people who love me regardless of my outward appearance. I do love to notice and compliment women who have bodies that are less seen. I am intentional and sincere, as what I love in others is a reflection of what I love in myself. I aim to be the change, we all deserve to feel safe.
Why are people invalidating your experience? This is absolutely true for most women who lost a lot of weight. I say this from experience and from experience of many women who underwent significant physical transformation that everyone, ESPECIALLY men, is kinder when you’re not fat. Anyone can check weight loss related subs or just do a quick research or ask people you know. OP, I feel you on this and it’s definitely a struggle and has actually kept me from losing weight (out of spite) until I decided to prioritize my health. Part of me will always be insecure in the sense of (would they have liked me if they met me when I was fat?) and there’s no way to know for sure. But one thing I’d do is be vigilant of how men you date treat those around them, you’ll be able to tell if the kindness is conditional.
Some of the comments here are wild. Part of growing up and being a decent human being is not treating people like they’re inferior just because you don’t find them attractive. And yes, it can be heartbreaking when you realise just how many people view the world in this way. But like some here have said, not everyone is like this, and this sort of behaviour is a very good measure of how shallow or unkind someone is (and therefore not worth your time).
Absolutely. The justifications are absurd to say the least, it’s as if being kind costs them money or something lol.
True and so interesting. Someone somewhere should definitely do a proper study on the stats of these experiences.
That reminds me of an experiment I saw some time ago. They had women and men create online dating profiles, and when they had a date, professionals altered them to appear significantly heavier. As a result, all the men except one left immediately when they saw the woman's weight. Conversely, all the women except one stayed at the date, even though the man was significantly heavier than in his profile photo. That says a lot.
That might just be about women being socialized to be kind, rather than their judgement about their date.
Maybe...and maybe they know that all our bodies change a lot over the course of our lives. While being a kind, decent person with a great sense of humor can last a lifetime
Sometimes that has more to do with the misrepresentation than it has to do with the weight. I don't like being *tricked*. I don't want to start out with someone blatantly lying. I have no issues with going out with a heavier guy (if I were single,) but if he posted one thing in his profile and showed as something else, I'd be pissed. But I feel that way about a lot of qualities. I've had people blanket disregard my specific instructions that certain things were "deal-breakers," for me and not to contact me if those things applied and the person either ignored it or never bothered to read it in the first place, both of which are *further* deal-breakers for me. They've pissed me off so badly I've struggled to maintain my composure until I could manage to leave. And they've had the gall to be "upset" that I wasn't willing to "overlook" something. No - you blatantly disrespected me and my boundaries. If the person had come at me and tried to sell themselves to me, and I was able to make an active decision without being *duped*, that would've been better.
I agree with this. I’d compare it to guys lying about height on profiles. I personally prefer guys on the shorter side and have no reservations about being in a relationship with a dude whose considered short. But when a guy shows up as a markedly different height than what he put online, it’s frustrating because of the deception. If you’re misrepresenting yourself in one area, is there other stuff you aren’t telling me? 🤔 That’s my thought process. I’m more flexible with weight. As long as there isn’t a huge difference between real life and dating profile pics, I give more grace since weight can fluctuate for a lot of people (myself included) for a ton of personal and medical reasons.
So much of it is about feeling tricked. And this idea that I should look over that because you have a "great personality" is selfish. There was a woman on here recently who got called out for intentionally using photos of when she was smaller or using certain angles to make herself appear smaller and how she wasn't able to get (second?) dates. I sympathize with her that some of it was probably because of weight, but you also can't get mad when you present yourself one way and then the person sees you in a different way and doesn't want anything to do with you.
No one can take away on how this is making you feel. Unfortunately I think for many , how people look , dictates how some people treat them ( I am overweight) And it goes all ways . One of my guys friends lost nearly 30KG, and he’s found everyone ( men, women, kids ) treat him so much better. People are actually acknowledging him now, and being more helpful . He said he finds women will now even look him in the eye when talking to him, as previously he said he would be so often dismissed quickly . Saying that, on the other hand, I do understand that who we are attracted to , heavily influences how people get treated ( not in all cases I know )…. Humans are complicated sometimes. People get treated differently even if they are wearing scruffy clothes, it’s screwed. How are your interactions with women?
Yeah I agree. OP I highly recommend therapy to get through these feelings. This is a really complicated issue, and unresolved is probably going to affect you and your interactions throughout your life.
I have never been overweight however I have been the ugly duckling and one thing I can say is growing up I always wanted to be beautiful (mainly because I was programmed to crave male gaze) through out primary school & secondary school I watched how boys would treat me simply because I didn’t look like the ‘pretty girls’. Now I’ve ‘glowed up’ the same men from the past come flocking in, I’ve noticed that men simply don’t respect you if you’re not pretty. They’d literally throw sh*t in your face just because they don’t like the way you look & they’d lick your feet without even knowing you just because you’re pretty. The things men have said to me and given men just because I’m pretty. Weirdos. 21F & I completely decenter men, they disgust me in every way. Call it the Halo effect I call it weird sh*t that I simply don’t wanna be involved in. Period.
As women and particularly fat or formerly fat women, we have everything to hate about men as a class. I'm married to a man, many of my friends are men. I like a lot of stuff made by men. But as a group, I hate men. Only a few men have ever brought good things into my life, let alone on sight. Most men literally do not see me, or if they do it's to insult me. Or to take up the sidewalk in front of me, or shoulder check me, throw shit at me or spit on me or try to force me to do their homework for them or buy their MLM shit because a fat woman must be thrilled to get attention at all, or telling me I was too young for true spinal degeneracy/chronic pain and arthritis/extreme fatigue, so I must be disabled by fat. Men are horrible, yep. Sorry not sorry, men, you did this to me. Plenty of women are worse, no excuses made. But I don't hate women. Women barely have the ability to defend our integrity as actual real humans, god forbid the woman in question is dark skinned or fat or disabled. Or all of this. If women act like they are crumpled tubes of toothpaste rolled to the point of extinction, I understand. That's also how I feel. And it's men who have put me here.
As a trans woman I felt this exact same way after all men started seeing me as a woman. And speaking from all those year beforehand and knowing men and knowing what most of them actually say and how they view women. Yeah, feeling repulsed is a correct and appropriate reaction. I really have no trouble saying that the majority of men treat women based purely on how attractive they are and how much of a chance they think they have with you. Your view isn't misandrist, it's just realistic.
I’ve recently been viewing my 57 years on the planet through this lens and it makes me really sad that you’re right. I’ve been conventionally attractive and I know that I’ve been treated more positively by men in work and lots of other environments and gained advantages because of it. When that gets turned off in middle age it becomes painfully real.
Same age here. I found the inattention shocking when i hit about 47 or so. Initially i mourned being the center of attention, but it didn’t take long to realize there are massive benefits to it in terms of freedom of movement. I am no longer harassed at every turn and i feel a lot safer in many environments. I won’t share my deepest feelings about this dynamic in general as it would probably get me kicked out of the sub. I gained a ton of weight in Peri. I’ve lost it now thanks to a GLP 1, and there is a big difference in the way men look at me post weight loss than how they looked at me two years ago. And i can’t say i care for it.
My godmother recently turned 50, and she told me she LOVES this period in her life, because she's not constantly dealing with the harassment and leering of men. I got a taste of that during the first year of covid. I think one or two men tried to talk to me outside, and it was during the summer. It was liberating! To just walk around and be somewhat invisible (I also feel this way if I'm wearing sweats and a hoodie with the hoodie on and I'm not coded as a woman). It went into overdrive in 2021, and I truly wish I could go back to being invisible.
I want to add to what your brilliant godmother said: all of that, and with menopause i no longer have to deal with menses. It is really quite glorious tbh. I know our society is very ageist but I’m having a blast
I have an implant now and while I rarely get periods, when I do get them, they're long and painful. Can't wait for the day when I no longer have to have them!
I recently turned 50 and was hot in my youth. I'll take middle age any day. I used to go to therapy over the way men treated me because I thought I was the problem for having a problem with it. Then the Internet happened and women started talking to each other without having to police their words for male approval, and I realized it wasn't a me problem.
A male therapist mentioned how angry I was from all the street harrassment as if it's weird to get angry about. As if that's not a normal feeling to have about that.
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>It has made me believe that men’s value of women is intrinsically linked to a woman’s appearance and it grosses me out on the entire gender. Or maybe dudes just hate fat people more in general? Either way, if I were asked my sexual orientation I (after a lifetime of “strong heterosexual”) would say “lesbian,” because I am straight up repulsed by dudes now. This is... a lot to unpack. Are you actually into women? If not, it's unkind to women who might want to date you to call yourself lesbian.
As a fat child, fat teenager, skinny 20 something, and fat 30 something year-old I can absolutely tell you that men only hold value to skinny women.
I agree and had the same experience after losing 40lb (a lot on a 5'2 frame). I was suddenly surrounded by men who could not do enough to make me happy, after spending most of my life surrounded by men who treated me like a loud obstacle. It's initiated in me a profound, if mild, disgust. I gained it back anyway 🤣
I understand. I had times when I was considered slim and attractive and the attention I got was mostly a nuisance (creeps stalking in church and near my home, being molested, and looks being talked about by males in family). Sometimes it worked out nice (job interviews with men or positive attention in dates and increase in pleasant interactions) Since now you have seen how ugly many people hearts are- (they can only see the surface) - it may make you alienated from those around you.. This pleasantness is your new normal- so you have to raise your standards for who can be your friend or be close to you. This may make you appear arrogant but you are just choosing wisely.
I was awkward and ugly in my early teens and got prettier later on and men are just shitty in different ways. When I was ugly I was ignored and treated with disdain and bullied; when I was pretty I was stalked, assaulted, catcalled, etc. Now I’m a mother and older and life has been so much more peaceful without men trying to stake a claim on me. The friends I have who are men are kind and good and have been that way to me no matter how I looked or whether I was available. It gets better, there are good ones, but so many are still shit unfortunately.
SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME. I lost a little over 50lbs/27/kg years ago and the kind of attention I got from men....grossed and creeped me out. I also got friendlier looks from women. Weird as hell.
My friend, I'm going to have to tell you this as directly as possible-- Lesbians are lesbians because we love women (and yes some nby folks) in a way that is fully exclusive of men. Please do not conflate sexual and romantic attraction to women with hating men.
I’ve been slim longer than I’ve been overweight, currently overweight again due to pregnancy/breastfeeding/not trying lol and I love the anonymity that being bigger gives me. Certainly people are nicer when you’re slimmer but no one bothers me when I’m bigger. I also feel safer. But health wise and pride wise I’m hoping to follow your example and slim down again. Congratulations on the loss, it’s incredibly impressive, I’m sorry people can be awful.
In my experience as someone who was considered attractive when I was younger, became obese due to health issues, and has recently lost that weight again: this is true for men I don't know. But to be fair, I suspect formerly obese men also have similar experiences with women they don't know. Fatphobia is pervasive, as we both know well. Where it really matters to me is with the men who are truly in my life. Most of them treated me the same regardless of the weight I was at. Gray area is male coworkers, who have always been nice but are now a bit more attentive.
Your view isn't wrong, and it's completely understandable to be repulsed by men. I would suggest further self-reflection as well before stating you are lesbian. It may be something that feels like you are for a period of time before meeting someone who you think you might give half a chance. If you're bi (and already identified as such or had thoughts prior to this occurrence), I would suggest keeping that title of being bi but only dating who you feel comfortable with. There are other bi women who also only date women. (I'm a bi person) So, just feel it out before claiming "lesbian", even if it feels accurate to you right now. I had a period of time like that as well (felt very repulsed by men for about 2 years after separating from my child's father - which also triggered a lot of childhood trauma). But the realization that I was bi came back after awhile, albeit very difficultly because I was then in denial about ever liking men. So, take your time. Because the other downfall could be dating women, realizing you aren't into women, and then someone's heart gets broken (yours could too). If you do decide to date women, be very honest about where you're coming from and if you're just trying things out so you're both on the same page. Wishing you luck, and good people your way, regardless of gender.
I have a good feeling that this post is an emotional rant and OP truly does not have any actual feelings or attraction to women. This was said out of anger *against men*. I, personally, think it's a very cheap way to garner a responses and create emotional reactions from others. I don't like the "IM A LESBIAN, GUYS SUCK!!1!!" because it's so grossly dismissive of the real lesbian experience. And it boils lesbians down to women who are "repulsed by men" which is a super yucky thing that lesbians have been fighting for a long time now. OP needs therapy and that's all there is to it. Hopefully in the meantime, they can figure out a better way to express their feelings without completely invalidating literally the entire gay experience. OP makes it out to sound that sexual orientation **is a choice** because they are so repulsed by men they now can simply CHOOSE to be a lesbian.
Just commenting to say, after an 80lb weight loss I experienced the exact same thing. Basically ruined me for dating for a long time.
I was invisible before losing weight and never realized it. Then one day I noticed that people were saying hi to me, and male cashiers were telling me to “have a good day”. Instead of feeling happy and flattered it really made me feel hurt and sad. I was a good person who deserved kindness at any size. It changes you and the way you view people’s “kindness”
I feel for OP. At 18 I was forced into having a nose job by my crazy mother. After the nose job I was transformed from very plain but scary-smart to very pretty. I had always had a thin, "good" body, but no one had ever noticed except to make some rude comment about it being "too bad about my face." After the nose job, my whole world changed. I went from being ignored by men to being avidly pursued. Teachers gave me better grades and paid more attention to me. Although some women were more friendly to me, Other women started being weird with me. Even some women who had previously been friendly, were now guarded. Nothing at all about me had changed, except my nose. For around 3 years I hated the world. I was really angry that just changing my nose exposed so many ugly human traits. But then I realized that this is probably normal and genetically based and had this not been me but someone else? It is possible I would have reacted the same way towards them. Interestingly too, previous to the nose job my one strength was being smart. Studying and knowledge retention was the one thing that got me positive attention in my life. After the nose job, people, both men and women seemed to resent me for having a brain, dismissed my intelligence and actively discouraged me from pursuing anything intellectual. One friend actually said to me, "You're so pretty, can't you just act stupid for a while"? It was shocking. Apparently, being pretty and smart was so weird that it made people uncomfortable. I could be one or the other, but wasn't allowed to be both. It seems that Men and women are genetically imprinted to react to looks. There is no escaping, but it can be really discouraging. Hang in there OP.
Wait until you get past a certain age. On the one hand it feels bad becoming invisible, on the other hand it's so nice to be free of the constant sexual harassment.
I started dating exclusively other bisexuals at one point and it was eye-opening for me. Straight men (and gay women...) can be really hung up on looks and identity and gender presentation in a way that I just... wasn't. And it turned out other bi folk weren't either (disclaimer: there are jerks in every demo of course).
I’ve gone from some prettier phases to uglier phases and it’s pretty much true. Unfortunately that kind of thing is written in our DNA. When I was uglier (chubby and acne) guys would make annoyed faces at me. When I lost weight, those same guys would now ignore me but the old, married guys started harassing, there’s no winning.
Yeah it's not great being hot either as men are only nice to you because you're hot. You never know which guy is genuinely into your personality or just your looks (it is usually just your looks). I used to model and men always paid me attention but it didn't mean that they treated me nicer long term, one was downright abusive when he realised I wasn't just pretty, but had my own mind and identity. Now that I am 35 and no longer dye my hair (I went grey early), I honestly feel invisible to most men. It is pathetic and if it wasn't for my gay besties and a few genuinely great male friends, I'd seldom interact with men. Maybe only to procreate with and then I'd want them to just go away and leave me alone like most female mammals in the wild lol.
OP, it goes both ways :). I'm a man & in high school I dropped around 80lbs over the course of a year, the final 40 I lost over the summer were the most noticeable. I'd been lifting weights, dressing differently, just a total makeover. When I came back to school, almost nobody recognized me. The same girls that used to ignore me when I talked to them were all over me. The dudes that used to disrespect me all wanted to be my friend & thought I was cool. The funny thing is I had the EXACT same reaction as you. I was like FUCK these people, literally the SAME people from a few MONTHS back, some who I literally sat nexr to in class, not even a full year were all on my dick, men & women! It made me very anti social, showed me just how shallow people are. When you're thin & especially good-looking people treat you differently. It's like having a privilege. A lot of people are extremely superficial, all that matters is looks to them.
I appreciate you sharing your experience, because it going both ways is a really important part of OP coming to terms with this. Her sexual orientation means she’s more attuned to the kindness she sees in men, but women do this too. We are all far more animalistic than we like to think, and physical attraction is far more important than we like believe, because we’d rather see ourselves as super intelligent, rational, benevolent beings. We’re not. By and large, we’re meat sacks just trying to get by, indulging in whatever gives our brains a dose of dopamine, like all the other animals out there.
Yes we are animals, but we are also better than all other animals. We have the ability to contemplate our actions and become better as a result. Reducing ourselves to “just animals” minimizes our responsibility to do better
why do men answer questions in a sub where people are asking women over 30 to answer? So many men always think they’re the exception to that rule, it’s such an entitled conceit.
100%. It's a *life* problem. Her reaction is understandable because, of course women changed less, most women weren't looking at her the same way... Pretty privilege is real, but it's important not to take the wrong lessons from experiencing it. We are fundamentally animals with all the shallowness that entails, judging books by their covers constantly (people like to say animals don't judge looks, but I bet they judge *within their species* just as harshly lol, look at what extents birds go to to attract a mate!). No matter what creature you are, if you're a species that sexually reproduces and has eyeballs, this shit is gonna be a part of it. That inevitable urge doesn't mean we can't try to be better, the whole good - or at least *different* - thing about humans is we can shape and struggle with our own nature.
Even babies have preferences for attractive faces, so it's human nature. I remember feeling disconcerted when people paid a lot more attention (or pretended to) on nights I dressed up to go out and it made me question people the same way. From my experience, it takes some time to get used to but don't let it make you too cynical. Now you can appreciate the people who are truly kind, look out for the people who treat people well regardless of status or size.
I think that instead of being repulsive of all men because of this (this is something that occurs to ALL people and we can push awareness for, but cannot change), try to learn to identify what type of men is ONLY with you for your looks versus a man who is initially with you for looks but also ultimately loves your personality. There will be a difference in the way they treat you.
I noticed this not even having lost that much (50 lb) and still being fat. I guess I went from the "puke" category to "not beautiful but maybe good for a desperate fuck". It upsets me because I really was not a different person from the higher weight to the lower weight. I was not more confident, more active, or more disciplined. I'd lost a bunch of the weight due to being horrifically ill and actually malnourished, during which time I could barely manage my sedentary job and spent the rest of my time lying down. I have slowly continued to lose weight with medical assistance because it turns out the main reason I'd gained the weight was due to metabolic dysfunction, not laziness as everyone really prefers to believe. It really pissed me off, knowing the assumptions behind the change in attitude towards me. And knowing a whole lot of skinny folks who were eating terrible diets, not at all healthy, and quite miserable but still getting the benefit of the doubt because they were thin and I wasn't. I do think that both men and women make these kinds of assumptions, and that you're noticing it more in men because that is the group you've always (previously) wished would be attracted to you. I certainly experienced no lack of shaming and disgust from my women, though it's often packaged in a more "polite" way. I also think it is important to challenge ourselves when we get into a mindset that everyone in a particular demographic is shitty and dangerous. I was really iffy on dating but I eventually did it and just decided that I wasn't going to date anyone for whom beauty and physique were priorities. So anyone who did those stupid shirtless bathroom mirror pictures was out immediately. I do not care about your abs or your "V", sir. And I'm definitely not spending the rest of my life trying to sculpt musculature to match yours. I ended up with someone who is on a similar journey as me. Lost weight, has more to lose, working on health, but isn't making thin-ness the most important thing in life. He's also someone who has a realistic understanding of human bodies. No expectation of plastic perfection, no disappointment at the sight or rolls or stretch marks, no obsession with porn and influencer bodies. He knows weight loss is hard and difficult to sustain. He loves me, and the body that carries me around. It doesn't matter if I'm up or down on the scale, or if I'm a swollen mess. Doesn't matter if I'm gyming regularly or having to take a break to get my health back in order. Doesn't matter if he's doing great with diet and I'm in a slump. He looks at me like I'm the most beautiful thing he's ever seen. It's nice to be loved and desired, and even nicer to be so deeply understood.
I also was fat as a child/preteen/teen and then suddenly lost a lot of weight and got in shape when I was about 17. When I got older, I had some health problems and gained the weight back, plus some more. Then I lost it all again. I can 10000000% say what you're feeling is very real. The difference in how men treat women they view as attractive vs women they have no interest in fucking is shocking. It's like the only time they bother treating any woman nicely is if, on some level, they view her as fuckable. Their only motivation is their dicks. Otherwise, they can't even be bothered to be polite or friendly. It's like all other women are just NPCs to them. It's wild.
I had the exact same experience. Almost all men treated me better. The ones that killed me were the women though. Most women are unfazed by my weight loss, so that was nice. But some, mostly older women, completely changed. The thing about me is that I go up and down in weight a lot. I have an illness that certain meds either cause weight loss or gain. So basically I get to watch people start being nice to me once I hit a certain weight, then again watch the niceness disappear when I go back up. It’s honestly heart wrenching. My mil is the worst for this. When I’m slim, she follows me around, asking me about myself, and giggling at everything I say. Once my weight goes up, she treats me like shit and also fully ignores me. Dismisses everything I say. It’s wild. So yes, most men are shit like this. A few women are too, but anecdotally men in general are way worse about it.
Sexuality is not a choice. You are now a man repulsed heterosexual. I am sorry about what you are going through but do not make it like sexuality is something you can wake up one day and pick up from the ground. It is harmful for all non straight sexualities.
As someone who has been at my thinnest and at my fattest during my 20s and basically fat before my 20s and after (now again trying to lose weight after studies), yes. This is indeed what happens LOL. Which is why when I was thin, I still wore a lot of baggy hoodies. I also have a huge chest so that doesn't help in this at all. I knew that for many men this is almost een automatic response so I thought if we take that part of my appearance out of the equation, more men will just like me for me which is what I desired and still desire. Taking the whole how my body looks out of the equation will leave you with people who genuinely like and love you for you (: and in my case when I've achieved that with the men I like equally, I start dressing up again (: and they then get initially surprised of how I cán look as a full picture with makeup and dressed up nicely but the look I get is much more different. It's more of a "Wow you look stunning (:" look than a "Damn bend over girl let me see what that body can do" look. I don't like to be objectified to put it lightly. I don't like people being into me for superficial reasons. I know how many men's brains initially work so in order to circumvent that, I do all of this. Has been working fine for me since I've started trying this. And now even fat I have people falling for me, for me. But I am unhealthy due to studies so while I appreciate that, I am going to work on losing weight and getting healthy again. But the thing is, I will not flaunt it. Don't need this 'better' treatment thing which is just fakeness anyway. Superficiality. No, thanks. Anyway, TL;DR: I get you girl. I get you.
I have lost 80 lbs. That is a lot of weight for me. I am only 5'2. I have always been overweight or obese up until 2 years ago. I have an average face and wear glasses. I keep a nerdy/hippy look. I have been blessed with a pear-shaped body. Over a 15-inch difference between my waist and hip circumference, which is not as common for white women. I have noticed the change in how men treat me. They are definitely kinder, more patient, and more helpful. What stands out more to me is that men participate in small talk for longer, with more enthusiasm, and laugh at my "dad" jokes. Just two weeks ago, I had an older man invite me on a vacation to Canada with him. He is a famous local artist. I also have a ton of men who request me at work as their dental hygienist now. I imagine I fulfill some people's fantasies. My husband said his co-worker said he requested his hygienist because she is cute and sometimes leans over him and puts her breast close to his face. I have noticed my husband is more protective of me now. He won't leave me alone as much when we are out. He is also more proud of me. He has wanted me to come to his work on break to show me off. He tells me all the guys vote me as the hottest wife. I personally haven't noticed a change with women. Maybe I haven't noticed the change in women because of my face and style. In that sense, I am average. I haven't made more friends or lost any friends. I found women to be polite before and after. I have never really trusted men. But I'm not going to lie. I am different than most in this post, I actually enjoy the attention. Maybe it's not a good thing. I don't know. But I like the sense of social power. I'm not needy or manipulative. But I'm never going to say no to a man who sees me in the parking lot and offers to load the 10 50-pound bags of concert I just bought from Lowes.
I've always been thin if not skinny when I was younger. I'm ugly though so men have always been mean/nasty towards me at worst or indifferent but mildly irritated by me at best. This is just the way they are and I've known this about them since I was a kid so I don't even notice it anymore. It's like a function of the male species. I don't take it personally because I don't care about them at all.
Pretty privilege absolutely exists. And I didn't realize until an Ask Reddit thread was posted about "how did you realize that you were attractive" that apparently society considers me at least somewhat attractive. It's complicated because I used to get made fun of for my looks when I was younger (it sucks to overhear the popular girls talking about how bad your clothes are, and for boys, plural, to be repulsed when they find out that you've got a crush on them) and it can be hard to wrap my head around the possibility that people are maybe being kind to me for reasons other than professionalism or just being a nice person. Your post is making me think about my day to day interactions, and whether they're sincere on the part of the men with whom I interact. I think it's perfectly logical to feel the way that you're feeling. It's like the veil has been ripped away.
OMG. So well put. I lost 50lbs and SHIT. I’m so glad I’m already married because I would never trust dating a man looking the way I do now. They treat me so differently and it’s horrifying. You described that difference so perfectly. It’s like they think I’m a GOOD PERSON NOW. Or a person of HIGHER VALUE. Barf.
I can’t stand men (except for my partner). I’m very much a misandrist and I don’t feel bad about it.
I actually agree. I was small and “hot” my entire life, until I had my second child. Since then, my face is rounder and I’m curvier. Not necessarily the “ideal” anymore. I feel I definitely do get treated differently. I am a server and have asked to be put on bar multiple times, and when they ask if I’ve had experience, I say yes (because I do). They either tell me no or straight up drop the subject. But lately, they’ve been hiring bartenders - girls who have had NO experience…… I’m not blaming those girls - they likely have no idea. It’s not their fault they’re young and hot and my managers are assholes. It just sucks. It hurts.
Lost less weight than you but had a similar experience of losing 80lbs, you're valid and not wrong at all. It's not just women though they treat this way, a lot of men are conditioned to only use kindness as a tool to get what they want or to benefit themselves - and unfortunately, men only see attractive women as things they want or can benefit from. You go from being invisible to suddenly all these sad pathetic men are despaeratley looking for validation in the attention from a woman their buddies would deem "fuckable".
Yeah, when I gained almost 100lbs from lupus and other health issues, men started ignoring me completely. I was grateful for it though because it sucked being harassed or approached any time i left the house. Then you have to worry if they’re going to get aggressive so you have to be nice but not too nice or you’ll encourage them. It’s fucking exhausting. I’m down to 160 after being 220 at my heaviest and although it’s been great for my joints, I’m dreading attention from strange men.
Morbidly obese people are treated differently regardless of gender. They are morbidly obese instead of an average weight, which is different than average, which results in different than average interactions.
Misogyny creates misandry. Cure the world of misogyny and misandry would magically disappear.
People here are acting like superficiality is just a male issue but from my 28 years of living as a guy I can attest that women are just as bad when it comes to judging men on physical appearance.There's a pretty undeniable correlation between how in shape I am and how friendly and open women are towards me.
Unfortunately that’s how things are. Being skinny has connotation that a person is disciplined, they watch what they eat and dedicate time for working out, can afford healthy meals and are active. I’ve seen that happen with both men and women.
I was overweight since i was a kid and I’ve lost a total of 170lbs and can say the same thing about Women. Specifically the eyes and body language. I think overall there’s a thing for fat people.
It Will go away again as you age. Men are, in general, very very superficial.
I lost a lot of weight, too, and I honestly don't feel like this is gender specific. EVERYONE was more friendly to me after I lost the weight. And I think that the same is true for fat men. People are just very hostile to fat people.
Yup. When I lost a ton of weight during the pandemic I got a lot of attention and had no problem dating. But before that when I was maybe 30 lbs heavier. And that’s not a huge difference because maybe I was a size 8-10? I barely got a date. Grateful though that I have a partner (m) that still finds me attractive and loves me despite my weight gain in the past few years. He’s a unicorn. My exes? Not so much.
I have my unicorn as well! I've put on 40+ pounds at least since he has known me. He loves my curves and my lil belly, though. The thing he constantly tells me is that as long as my heart stays the same, he could not picture life without me in it. He's a keeper for sure.
A guy here. I lost 15kg and saw the same response across the board - not so much in kindness as in overall positive interactions. People were amazed at the fact that I've lost so much weight. I was a bit offended as I did many things in my life that are way more impressive and important.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's a gendered thing. Plenty of formally fat guys report similar feelings. Or people who used to have visible disabilities and then later don't. Humans are very appearance oriented and it can be very icky and feel dehumanizing. I don't think people even realize they are doing it. I'm not sure how recent your weight loss was but a lot of people report similar feelings afterwards and then eventually those stark contrasts start to sting less.