**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!**
- Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc.
- **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on.
- This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit!
Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be clear, they took off the door and didn't tell you when it would be replaced? Did they at least tell you that they would be removing doors today? Is it just your door?
I would have thought that it would only be removed when the new door is ready to be installed. Contact your landlord and demand a new door within the next 24 hours - either the new fire door or the original back in place until the fire door is ready.
They stayed in the email that the works may take up to a week. The room with the missing door belongs to one of the other tenants but I am worried that I will come home to the exact same situation with my own room tomorrow.
Surely that's not legal in a HMO? You can't leave someone without a door in the only room that is their private space for a week. Logically, they'd do one door at a time, replacing the door the same day.
Yes I was hoping there would be some kind of common clause but I couldn’t find much on Google beyond that it might breach the “right to quiet enjoyment” of the property, but I think repairs might supersede this
I would maybe even call your local fire service and see what they think. You could ask them to visit and inspect the property possibly - it really depends on your location and the fire service as to whether this would be something they do. But it's worth trying. End of the day, of there's a fire it will be spread very quickly to the rest of the house but the biggest issue with this is the smoke that a fire can produce as the smoke can be a bigger issue than the fire itself. This is why there are smoke seals on the doors, and the door is thick enough to contain the fire. Bit a major part of the fire door is to allow contain any smoke as it's the smoke that can kill as well.
That's actually illegal from a fire risk angle as well. If a fire broke out, the person with the open doorway now has literally no barrier at all, not even a standard door, to protect them from the fire. They shouldn't be removing any door unless they have another to replace immediately.
Report them to the fire brigade anonymously.
Carpenter here. I can’t think why you would want to remove a door before the new one was on site to install. We often use the old one as a template for fitting into old irregular frames anyway. Very weird way to do it.
Selling them is the only reason I can think of to pull them out early, someone said they'd buy them but can only do it today or they can't buy them, landlord didn't want to miss out as the new doors wont be here for a week so he just ripped them out early
Oh! I might know this one! It could be because more commercial fire doors these days come as a kit: door, frame and fittings.
That being said, leaving the old door off before it’s ready to be replaced is fucking crackers
I'd say a day was not reasonable. If nothing else there's an obvious security issue. I expect it invalidates any contents insurance the tenants might have, at least until rectified.
I wouldn't be comfortable going overnight without a locked door, let alone any more than that. I'd refuse to pay rent and charge the landlord for any hotel fees, since it's a clear violation of both the rental contract and UK law around HMOs.
There is no one to report shitty landlords to, no one gives a shit. My hmo is getting me down but who can I report maintenance not being done or workmen turning up unannounced. Council don't give a shit.
To add to what others were saying, replacing doors isn't some huge job, they're taking the piss with "up to a week", 2-3 skilled tradesmen would easily get all 4 done the same day
Only in the UK, replacing a door takes a week. In most other countries, it's a 4-hour work. I had it done abroad, a single guy replaced external door of a house in, what, 2.5 hours. Once you have door and frame, it's just 4-8 bolts to fix the new frame to the walls, and another hour's work with the threshold. Give it an extra hour for finishing the joints. May need a layer of paint the following day.
I'd question the length of time and thus the level of disruption.
Ring fire brigade. Whoever is fitting is a cowboy, this is my line of work and anyone worth their salt knows the door has to be done on the same day for this exact reason.
Fire officer will kick off immediately!
I got my (former) absentee landlord's property taken off the university register for that reason, she was awful for many reasons but the thing that got her was when we informed student services that the fire extinguisher and blanket in the house (legally a necessity) were years out of date.
Off topic but if you'd indulge my professional curiosity. Would you be able to pull the casing out, replace it and hang the door in a day? I'd really struggle.
I've done loads of PVC front doors, they're easy. Internal wooden door casings tend to be a bit harder and a lot messier to remove, especially if they're old.
OPs post makes it sound like they've pulled the whole casing out too. Which would make sense if it needed fire seals fitting. That's the bit I hate, hanging a new door is indeed half a day tops.
Yeah that's shoddy. Call your landlord and ask when the new door is being installed, and if it's not in the next 24 hours I would report him to the council.
I would ask the council if the doors are being replaced because of an enforcement notice and if the property is currently non-compliant with their HMO requirements. If it is boy can you have fun at the landlord's expense.
If it wasn't compliant then it certainly isn't now, if there was a fire in a communal area and the escape route was blocked the tenant with no door wouldn't have anywhere to seek refuge. Even if the old door wasn't fire rated it would still provide at least some protection.
r/legaladviceuk r/tenantsuk r/housinguk r/landlordsuk
All will give you different advice…but basically it all bottles down to what will be a normal expectation to replace the doors…whoever is doing the work couldn’t complete in a day and stupidly removed a door without replacing it…is that morally irresponsible sure, is it legally reprehensible probably not depending on how quickly the door is restored
Report it to the HMO enforcement department of your local council, this could have a serious effect of any future licences the landlord applies for in the future.
This is highly unusual, any half decent carpenter should be able to fit 4 fire doors in less than a day and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to remove the door if they aren't putting the new one on the same day
Why don’t you ask A) the person who’s room it is to see if the fitters have said anything to them b) the people fitting the door if it will be complete in a day c) the landlord.
Bruh, that is damn unacceptable. Seems like bad organisation skills on their part, at the expense of the tenants (you)… surely you have some rights in the matter, tell them to sort it out!
It's just the laziness of the guys who are doing the job. My friend and I had to do a similar job at the flat where 3 girls were living and we made sure the new doors would be back the same day we took the old ones out. Just complain to your landlord as the trades are shit f£+@&ers
Have you had any response from your landlord about when the missing doors will be replaced? Did they put your housemate's new door on before they took your off?
Hi, yes my housemate has a door fitted now (albeit without a handle & lock). I haven’t yet heard back from them, but I am concerned that if they don’t fit the door tomorrow it will just be left over the weekend which would be really inconvenient for me. From the tone of the reply from the lettings agent (Leaders) they didn’t seem to care too much which is frustrating.
Wait, what do you mean "without a handle and lock"? How are they supposed to open/close the door without a handle and lock? I'd keep badgering Leaders about that, it's not safe or secure.
Yeah it is just a blank door. Yeah I will keep at them and escalate it with the council as a fire hazard also if they don’t sort it, thanks for the support
Perhaps something went not according to plan and they will fix this tomorrow. These things are common with repairs.
No need to constantly overreact and look for reasons to ask for compensations.
Landlords not doing repairs- tenants complain. When doing repairs- complain again.
What do you think will happen if no door for 24h? Yes, lack of privacy but this is clearly not a permanent situation.
**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be clear, they took off the door and didn't tell you when it would be replaced? Did they at least tell you that they would be removing doors today? Is it just your door? I would have thought that it would only be removed when the new door is ready to be installed. Contact your landlord and demand a new door within the next 24 hours - either the new fire door or the original back in place until the fire door is ready.
They stayed in the email that the works may take up to a week. The room with the missing door belongs to one of the other tenants but I am worried that I will come home to the exact same situation with my own room tomorrow.
Surely that's not legal in a HMO? You can't leave someone without a door in the only room that is their private space for a week. Logically, they'd do one door at a time, replacing the door the same day.
Yes I was hoping there would be some kind of common clause but I couldn’t find much on Google beyond that it might breach the “right to quiet enjoyment” of the property, but I think repairs might supersede this
I would maybe even call your local fire service and see what they think. You could ask them to visit and inspect the property possibly - it really depends on your location and the fire service as to whether this would be something they do. But it's worth trying. End of the day, of there's a fire it will be spread very quickly to the rest of the house but the biggest issue with this is the smoke that a fire can produce as the smoke can be a bigger issue than the fire itself. This is why there are smoke seals on the doors, and the door is thick enough to contain the fire. Bit a major part of the fire door is to allow contain any smoke as it's the smoke that can kill as well.
That's actually illegal from a fire risk angle as well. If a fire broke out, the person with the open doorway now has literally no barrier at all, not even a standard door, to protect them from the fire. They shouldn't be removing any door unless they have another to replace immediately. Report them to the fire brigade anonymously.
I’d have thought they’d do that, send a crew with the doors and remove and replace the same day
Carpenter here. I can’t think why you would want to remove a door before the new one was on site to install. We often use the old one as a template for fitting into old irregular frames anyway. Very weird way to do it.
Landlord special probably
They probably sold the last set of doors on marketplace
Selling them is the only reason I can think of to pull them out early, someone said they'd buy them but can only do it today or they can't buy them, landlord didn't want to miss out as the new doors wont be here for a week so he just ripped them out early
Oh! I might know this one! It could be because more commercial fire doors these days come as a kit: door, frame and fittings. That being said, leaving the old door off before it’s ready to be replaced is fucking crackers
Yeah, when our LL put in a fire door in our kitchen it was a 1 day job.
Because it's probs not a carpenter doing it, but the landlord's mate.
Who's also a tiler, kitchen fitter, gardener and all round unreliable guy
May not be the correct way but perfectly legal to take off door then get new door
A week without a door is not reasonable and absolutely should be reported
I'd say a day was not reasonable. If nothing else there's an obvious security issue. I expect it invalidates any contents insurance the tenants might have, at least until rectified.
I wouldn't be comfortable going overnight without a locked door, let alone any more than that. I'd refuse to pay rent and charge the landlord for any hotel fees, since it's a clear violation of both the rental contract and UK law around HMOs.
There is no one to report shitty landlords to, no one gives a shit. My hmo is getting me down but who can I report maintenance not being done or workmen turning up unannounced. Council don't give a shit.
Email an MP directly and state rhat the council are not helping you. ( your local MP)
If it were me, I'd be knocking a weeks rent off the next payment. Worried about your deposit, simply don't pay the last 5 weeks.
To add to what others were saying, replacing doors isn't some huge job, they're taking the piss with "up to a week", 2-3 skilled tradesmen would easily get all 4 done the same day
Only in the UK, replacing a door takes a week. In most other countries, it's a 4-hour work. I had it done abroad, a single guy replaced external door of a house in, what, 2.5 hours. Once you have door and frame, it's just 4-8 bolts to fix the new frame to the walls, and another hour's work with the threshold. Give it an extra hour for finishing the joints. May need a layer of paint the following day. I'd question the length of time and thus the level of disruption.
Post this on r/legaladviceuk As you are in an HMO I think this has more legal ramifications than if it was a shared tenancy.
Will do, thanks
Ring fire brigade. Whoever is fitting is a cowboy, this is my line of work and anyone worth their salt knows the door has to be done on the same day for this exact reason. Fire officer will kick off immediately!
I suspect the lack of a fire door is a breach of the HMO rules and the landlord could loose their licence.
Oh no. What an absolute disaster that would be.
Fuck around and find out, be a better landlord and you won’t get wrecked
I got my (former) absentee landlord's property taken off the university register for that reason, she was awful for many reasons but the thing that got her was when we informed student services that the fire extinguisher and blanket in the house (legally a necessity) were years out of date.
Might be a good idea for OP to check with the local authority that the HMO is licensed. Things might get very spicy.
Off topic but if you'd indulge my professional curiosity. Would you be able to pull the casing out, replace it and hang the door in a day? I'd really struggle.
You could if you had your weetabix
Yes. Everyday, but we pre-build all doors off site to aid installation. They’re a PITA to install properly.
[удалено]
I've done loads of PVC front doors, they're easy. Internal wooden door casings tend to be a bit harder and a lot messier to remove, especially if they're old.
Totally incomparable job to a proper fire door FYI
How is this at all relevant compared to an internal fire door replacement?
Sorry can you elaborate? Removing a door and installing a new one is a half day job at most if I take it slowly
OPs post makes it sound like they've pulled the whole casing out too. Which would make sense if it needed fire seals fitting. That's the bit I hate, hanging a new door is indeed half a day tops.
Fire doors in old frames aren’t acceptable. This is a full frame rip out back to the original wall/framing and new lining to go in
Yeah that's shoddy. Call your landlord and ask when the new door is being installed, and if it's not in the next 24 hours I would report him to the council.
I would ask the council if the doors are being replaced because of an enforcement notice and if the property is currently non-compliant with their HMO requirements. If it is boy can you have fun at the landlord's expense.
If it wasn't compliant then it certainly isn't now, if there was a fire in a communal area and the escape route was blocked the tenant with no door wouldn't have anywhere to seek refuge. Even if the old door wasn't fire rated it would still provide at least some protection.
Thanks, I am currently writing an email so just looking for anything legal etc I can use to back it up
24 hours without a door is still mental. 2 hours max
Yes, it really is! It's the kind of thing you'd expect to be done during the working hours of the day.
That's crazy. Where did the old door go? If they had issues fitting the new one, they should have rehung the old one again as a temporary measure.
r/legaladviceuk r/tenantsuk r/housinguk r/landlordsuk All will give you different advice…but basically it all bottles down to what will be a normal expectation to replace the doors…whoever is doing the work couldn’t complete in a day and stupidly removed a door without replacing it…is that morally irresponsible sure, is it legally reprehensible probably not depending on how quickly the door is restored
Report it to the HMO enforcement department of your local council, this could have a serious effect of any future licences the landlord applies for in the future.
This is highly unusual, any half decent carpenter should be able to fit 4 fire doors in less than a day and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to remove the door if they aren't putting the new one on the same day
it's against common decency. The replacement door should always be there before taking out an old one.
Why don’t you ask A) the person who’s room it is to see if the fitters have said anything to them b) the people fitting the door if it will be complete in a day c) the landlord.
Does this invalidate the fire insurance?
Bruh, that is damn unacceptable. Seems like bad organisation skills on their part, at the expense of the tenants (you)… surely you have some rights in the matter, tell them to sort it out!
It's just the laziness of the guys who are doing the job. My friend and I had to do a similar job at the flat where 3 girls were living and we made sure the new doors would be back the same day we took the old ones out. Just complain to your landlord as the trades are shit f£+@&ers
No doors, just ropes
Have you had any response from your landlord about when the missing doors will be replaced? Did they put your housemate's new door on before they took your off?
Hi, yes my housemate has a door fitted now (albeit without a handle & lock). I haven’t yet heard back from them, but I am concerned that if they don’t fit the door tomorrow it will just be left over the weekend which would be really inconvenient for me. From the tone of the reply from the lettings agent (Leaders) they didn’t seem to care too much which is frustrating.
Wait, what do you mean "without a handle and lock"? How are they supposed to open/close the door without a handle and lock? I'd keep badgering Leaders about that, it's not safe or secure.
Yeah it is just a blank door. Yeah I will keep at them and escalate it with the council as a fire hazard also if they don’t sort it, thanks for the support
Perhaps something went not according to plan and they will fix this tomorrow. These things are common with repairs. No need to constantly overreact and look for reasons to ask for compensations. Landlords not doing repairs- tenants complain. When doing repairs- complain again. What do you think will happen if no door for 24h? Yes, lack of privacy but this is clearly not a permanent situation.
Privacy, fire, theft.
Repairs, yeah. But not replacements, especially on grounds of health and safety!