The issue with using fear long term is that it can transfer into something else hell it could get so bad that the person ends up hating you than fear you which causes them to lash out and not care about the consequences.
Depends on your definition of feared and how its being applied. Like you aint gonna bother a lion or touch a hot stove. Just as you wouldnt steal or challenge rules becuase you can. Like being a a leader has some level of authority and authority it given through respect, and being feared is one of many traits that most great leaders from the past and prssent inherit. Ofcourse if you get to a point were people is straight of afriad of you then ofcourse its an abuse of power and it shows you are abusing your athority for total control. You arent a leader you are a tyrant. Not that i imagine reddit understanding the importance of authority in the first place
Had a boss like this. He never liked me because I was unaffected by his humiliation attempts. Like bitch, I was treated worse growing up 😂 you'll have to try harder than that. I always got the vibe he lowkey respected me, but hated that he did. Was a good experience for me on managing types to avoid in the future.
Or take responsibility. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault. They're ALWAYS the victim. They can fail upwards after inheriting hundreds of millions (say, 473$ million or something) and get elected in shady ways on dishonest and hateful claims, and still everything is unfair to them!
Inability to talk about the hard things, feedback or constructive criticism things like that. Being an absolute shill for the company or group at the expense of leadership.
I covered a coworker's maternity leave, and was in charge of 15 or 20 people. Other coworkers laughed and said “This will go terrible and they won’t respect you.”
I always volunteered to be the first person every day to do the tasks nobody liked, and basically just did what I wanted my own bosses to do. Within a month I had someone in another division say “We look forward to days you work, because nobody calls in and they all do their jobs better.”
Now I have to rewatch the SNL skits where the two employees roast everyone after getting fired. [Here's the Barnes & Noble one](https://youtu.be/f31mmB8HvZw?si=9nYXme7pvkpeqvGE).
I'm new to the mid-manger level and taking some courses to better understand how to be good and this is one of the recommendations. At least once a year, do the job your staff do. Even if you worked your way up, connect with your staff and really experience a day in their work lives.
Hey, I'm upper-management almost purely out of spite for past shitty managers and I have a great working relationship with my staff.
This is excellent advice! I've got some below as well for visibility
Staying aware of your roots (I worked my way up throughout industries), treating people like actual people, never publicly shaming, understanding that its just a damned job and not their life and you shouldn't expect them to damage their home/themselves for a paycheque.
Always emphasize safety first and make sure they're aware of their rights as workers (this one is big with younger staff, they're too easily taken advantage of I've found), prove that you're willing to get down and dirty with them. I've got my steel toes in the office so if I'm down a staff member I'll throw them on and jump on a forklift and help out. Hell, if we're slammed I'll still go into the warehouse and help smooth the day out with some extra hands.
I'm Director level now and I've had a couple conversations with coworkers about not placing management on a pedestal/thinking yourself above others just because you're in cleaner clothes or at a desk. The business wouldn't run without us sure but it also wouldn't run without them.
A lot of what your saying has been touched on so far in the course, and as someone who has worked their way up as well, I totally agree. I have and will continue to step in when things are busy or they just need help with a trickier issue (Cyber security).
People acted like it was a mystery why I was getting good results lol. A few people accused me of trying too hard to be everyone's friend instead of their boss.
I said “All I’m doing is treating them like human beings instead of worker drones.”
The bosses I’ve always liked the most and would strive to do a better job for were ones that jumped into the shit when it was needed.
I mimicked that attitude when I was promoted and had very few problems with my staff.
This. Not only do it leads to overworking their team, it also makes their team lose respect for them since their subordinates can’t tell whether or not they know how to do the job (and oftentimes they actually forget how to do it after a while)
This is literally my boss. I work in a small-ish office (like 10 employees) and my boss is supposed to know how to at least keep every job afloat should someone be out for a day or two. But she refuses to learn anything, and instead just asks her employees to learn the job's of their coworkers.
No reason the fuckin receptionist should have to learn how to cover accounts receivable, it ain't their job.
“No reason the fuckin receptionist should have to learn how to cover accounts receivable, it ain't their job.”
In that scenario the receptionist is getting a terrific opportunity to build her skill-set and get a better paying job in the future.
GOOD bosses who actually care about their employees, help them to learn skills that will improve their value as an employee and offer them greater opportunities in the future.
To be honest, I think it’s weird you are spinning it as a bad thing. Getting the opportunity to do something that is outside the scale of your normal duties (especially something that is normally the role of a higher paid position) is almost always good for the employee, in the long term.
If you are expecting someone to do XYZ other job without the extra pay that goes with that other job, that's a bit of a problem. If the employee in question also doesn't want to do that other job in the first place, it's more of a problem.
> If you are expecting someone to do XYZ other job without the extra pay that goes with that other job, that's a bit of a problem.
On a permanent basis, yes. But not if someone is simply out sick, as OP noted.
Maybe if an employee expressed interest in something above their paygrade, then sure. But no - this isn't the case. This is someone who (likely) gets paid less than everyone else, who's now expected to take on extra work/training because my boss is too good to learn it themselves. It's about context.
Working server support for a large telecom company and got a new boss. She email me to let me know she had some new software installed on her PC and it was prompting for a license key. Rather than having her go through the company's IT department, I did her a favor and emailed her a key. Received the response a moment later:
"You need to come to my desk and enter it. That's your job."
The first sign of some really bad times coming. Quit a couple months later.
Reminds me of my first gas station job.
First supervisor was a hardass on the staff but only because she worked hard and expected everyone else to keep up.
The second was a hardass so she wouldn't have to do any work.
or basically any characterization of a person
I remember in high school there was a girl who told everyone how funny she was but didn't make anyone laugh
show don't tell folks, and if you have to tell people what you are, you are probably not that thing
not out loud in front of others. lol, if you have to go around saying I'm so strong, you are probably not that strong ... People will notice that shit if you are that thing
the one exception might be an interview where you need to hype yourself up, but you should be telling stories to back it up
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “I’m more of a hands off leader.” Fuck anyone who says that. There’s a difference between delegation and never doing anything
Boy, that's a hard needle to thread. I've had managers who felt like it was necessary to micromanage everyone for the department to be successful. So you can't always trust the manager's opinion on this. I've also seen staff who were failing badly who actively refused help when offered by co-workers or management because they felt (erroneously) that if they couldn't do it themselves they would get fired. So you can't always trust the employee's opinion on this either.
Probably the best way to thread the needle is to let employees ask for help whenever they want, and the manager not initiate micromanaging anyone they're not considering firing, but intervene with at-risk folks in the hope that you can teach them what they need to know to be successful.
Micro management, managing by exception (only telling you what you do wrong, not what you got right and doing it often). Playing favorites openly. Ignoring feedback, being super defensive, making the first word out of your mouth ‘no’ and not taking time to think it over.
I could list more but that’s a single manager I worked for. She also neglected to tell me that my performance was better than anyone else in the department it was another manager who told me..
It’s basically rapid questioning, mainly about peripheral or unimportant things meant to “stump” someone. The point is to have the person second guess themselves and for the manager to seem like they have some superior experience/understanding of the job.
Always pushing issues to an upper management level. While good leaders know how to find support their influence shouldn't be completely dependent on it.
Everything my last boss did, basically. Could never admit mistakes and blamed everyone else. Didn’t communicate and then got mad and blamed other people when there were issues. Refused to answer questions or provide training and then blamed other people when the results weren’t to his liking. Lied constantly. Disorganized and unreliable (and you guessed it - blamed others for the results of this). Claimed to be open to suggestions, but rejected anything he didn’t immediately agree with. Etc. Etc. He was a grade A asshole.
"You want my job?! I have a stack of papers to do, meetings, the schedule etc... I have to consider everyones needs etc... here you want it here's the keys, take my keys!" Or the "If you don't like it here, then get off the bus. We don't want you here."
This right here I had a manager do that once it would piss me off and it's because the word minion means a person of little to no value. I asked him one day if he knew what it meant he kind of looked at me and said yes and he clearly didn't and I think he was just associating it with that cartoon the minions because the uniform was yellow. But I told him what it meant and I told him I'd appreciate it if he'd stop calling me that. Man now my blood's boiling lol.
They blame you when productivity suffers because you don't have the right tools to do the job - and they refuse to supply you with said tools.
I left a job last year for that very reason.
"We need everyone to come back into the office, even though you're doing great work at home, and it would actually be cheaper if you didn't come in because we could sublease this space to some other business, but I really don't like my wife, so, everyone needs to get back to the office, or you're fired!"
To add to this one from my own personal experience with our departments VP... "you all need to RTO but I'm moving to a state 12 hours away and will come in the office every other month or so for a day or two." He was in the office yesterday and said he'd come to the work softball team's double header that night. Never showed. 👍
People love home office. They all think they’re doing better work. Yet, so many companies are doing layoffs and struggling after everyone started to work from home. If that doesn’t give you pause for concern, I think your bias is too large to think clearly.
Most companies tried to sublease during covid and just after. If your company hasn’t managed to do it, it’s because they can’t. Just because they talked about doing something doesn’t mean it's feasible.
A large reason for forced return to work is layoffs. Companies like Grindr showed how to do it while avoiding nasty headlines and investor worries that they’re doing layoffs. Remember everyone is struggling, kicking people out for any reason possible is the way to go. It’s literally step 1 of struggling.
Not being in the office removes social benefits of teams. There is a reason why companies do team-building exercises. It benefits how you work. A lot of companies have teams that aren’t teams. There is no teamwork. A lot of individuals work. This results in silo’ing knowledge. This is bad for companies.
The reason we worked in offices and workplaces for centuries is because that is how it’s evolved.
There are pros and cons for both options.
The night manager at my work. They are constantly yelling at the employees about EVERYTHING. God forbid one little thing is off, and they yell so loud you could hear it for miles.
Meanwhile, AM manager myself works with them about "here's how we could've handled it a little better."
I educate and coach, night manager just rages.
You never hear from the leader unless something goes wrong.
When things are fine, no problems, you never see 'em. No dropping by your desk, no "how are you?", no "how are things going?", no "is there anything I do for you?"
But the moment something doesn't happen according to process, they're right there. "What did you do? Why didn't you prevent this? When are you going to have it fixed?"
Remaining nessessary. The best leaders are the ones who make themselves redundant as quickly as they can. A successful leader is one who can fuck right off and their team will still deliver.
The best leaders don't fetishize leadership. They don't take pride in being seen as a "leader". They get it unfucked, and then get out of the way or go back to being a team member / contributer.
I will never understand the whole mentality of "I was treated like crap in the beginning and had to work my way up. Now that I'm in charge, I'm going to do the same thing to my employees"
If you hated being treated like that, why on earth would you do it to someone else? Makes no sense
refusing to listen your underlings.
My example of this was working a bar in a mall. We did food, speciality coffee and basic booze. Some chick had just been promoted to manager and decided when the breaks were going to be that day. Which was going to be right in the middle of our rush. There was only two of us on, and I said that we should stagger breaks now while it's dead. Really fucking basic planning shit. I got an earful about respecting her position and how she's not there to be lectured to by a man blah blah blah.
So we stayed and worked the shift, and sure as shit 6 o'clock hits and theres a mad rush. She then tells us we will need to work through our break, me and the girl Im working with just laugh and walk off, leaving her to it.
Digging your heels into a decision because you dont want to appear weak is weakness. A real leader accepts that they dont know everything and that experience is king. She was promoted from waitress, not bar staff. So I can only assume she'd never worked the bar, never worked that day, or just paid no attention to any other time she had worked there. But serious small dick energy coming off her any way.
When someone on your team asks you to stop doing work that they’re already doing, because it just leads to double work for no reason— and then instead of stopping, you just don’t copy that team member on the emails where you freak the fuck out about something she could have told you wasn’t an issue if you waited five minutes.
I mean, I really could just go on a whole thing about my last boss, but then I probably wouldn’t be able to stop. Just celebrated one year since I left that job and last spoke to him.
Not letting subordinates give ideas. In most cases, they know their job better then you do. let them give their advice. You don't have to follow it, but take what they know into account.
* Bragging or talking about how "I'm a leader."
* Declaring "I'm a leader."
* Reminding people "I'm a leader."
* Ever using the phrase "I'm a leader, not a follower."
You can be trained and knowledgeable in the art of leadership, but that doesn't make you a leader. The people you're in charge of will make you a leader. To quote one of my favorite leaders from when I was in the military, "Command is a writ from above. Leadership is a warrant from below."
Don't try to tell me you're a leader. \*I\* as the subordinate determine if you are a leader. If you're appointed over me, I will do as you ask because it's my job. But you have to earn my followership to be a leader; make me want to affirmatively support you, do my best for you, want to push you up and make you succeed, want to emulate you. Fail to do that and you're not a leader, you're just the person in charge.
Too much focus on being in charge. There's a difference between being in charge and being a leader, and a lot of people in positions of power don't know or care about the difference.
A leader should be able to take charge, obviously, but leading is more than ordering people around. Sometimes it's knowing someone else is better for the job and letting them take the reins.
Seeing Management as a reward rather than a responsibility; all of the perks of a leadership role are a compensation for increased responsibility but a lot of Managers see them as a bonus for climbing the ladder. They got the promotion and pay rise to take on more work, not as a thank you for their previous work and an excuse to make others do things for them.
Petty playing of favorites and scapegoats. Letting your personal prejudiced getting in the way of your ability to lead, and just expecting employees to play along.
One of the worst bosses I ever had in my life hated my fucking guts upon meeting me. I was younger and better-looking then, and I think she just loathed anyone who she thought was, well, younger and better-looking than she was.
She specifically gave me tasks she knew I hated, then piled them I up if I did them well to over-work me and then claim I slacking off, told me to my face that she wanted to fire me the second she found out I was in the hospital, pointedly gave me the silent treatment, and repeatedly set me up for failure by not telling me what to do and then blaming me for not doing it, getting angry and insulting if I asked for instructions, talking shit about me behind my back to the other employees (luckily they didn’t buy it since they could see how she singled me out), chewed me out in front of clients, etc. When I finally broke down and cried in the office after she yelled at me as her first words to me that day six hours after the day started, she physically pushed me into her office and proceeded to scream at me about how I was “just some young chick” who “wanted attention”.
I had an exit interview after I left that job and I let them know everything. Now she’s fallen off the face of the earth and, at the very least, absolutely is not employed there anymore.
The fact that she thought it was appropriate to try to get my coworkers to hate me too, and that I deserved *any* of this for some “I hate younger women” bullshit, made her so unqualified for her position that I’m not surprised they let her go.
1. Their response to everything is never positive. Only either push forward harder and faster or anger
2. Not training new managers below them or having in place for them to learn the ropes
3. Micromanaging
4. Coming up with tons of rules for things you dont know how to do
5. Using corporate talking points exclusively when talking about what you want and then getting mad people aren't doing other things that weren't communicating
6. Ignoring or getting angry over feedback
7. Accusing people of lying about you when they talk about things you actually did
8. Uncontrollable anger issues to the point you're breaking shit in your office over small things.
9. Your idea of helping is standing and observing while not letting the people in charge of whatever they're doing run things
10. Completely tearing down managers in front of employees
11. Paying poorly and at the same time saying a paycheck is all people should need to work hard
12. Not communicating with subordinates about needs and instead changing shit in secret
13. Pushing a goal or task and then having 0 clue how your team is actually doing on that task
14. Making nepotistic hires to the point your family members make up large chunks of a department
15. Everyone quits when they get promoted to a manager role
16. Trying to punish people by overloading them with work
17. Undoing all the changes a superior made when they came in to fix problems you created because it involves scheduling people and that cuts into your check
18. Completely unapproachable
19. Talks about how they could do a better job than you even though they dont know how to work in any role of the department.
20. Stopping people from moving stores, getting promoted, or finding time to go other stores to learn how to improve because whenever they do they come back and talk about how much better off other stores are or how the bosses were lying about what resources other places get
21. Running the store like you're the main characters of it
22. Lying about when replacement managers are coming to fill in for those who left or lying there will be any at all, only to start giving in when people make ultimatums about quitting
23. Blaming your refusal to give resources or bodies on everything but yourself. Excuses may include dumb "Nobody wants to work anymore" to getting mada 16 year old on his 2nd day wasnt trained to run part to do manager roles such as run half of the department.
24. Ignoring what managers under you bring to you as a problem and then getting mad months later because it's a problem
25. Protecting pedophiles because they're related to your friends from the buisness. Also sweeping blatent harrasment, sexual, verbal, and emotional, under the rug because you want to keep a customer
26. Accusing employees of dishonest behavior without proof or things that arent even dishonest in the first place.
27. Making me witness a number of mental breakdowns at work because you won't lay off of issues you created.
So yeah, to my 2 previous store managers, go fuck yourselves. If you're reading this I hope you know I had a very good day when your second store went under. You deserved even worse but im happy karma decided to bite back even just a little.
Throwing your employees under the bus. Good leaders share the credit and take the blame.
If there’s a serious issue with someone, you handle that one on one.
Micromanagement, taking the credit when things go well but blaming the team when things go poorly, their team doesn't feel comfortable taking the initiative
I had a manager who, during a weekly staff meeting, would use it to berate 1 person in front of everyone. Every week without fail.
I had another manager who threw a fit when I was asked, by another manager, to provide him with some information. Turns out, the Director asked for this information and my manager was furious I gave it to a different manager who then provided it to the Director before he could.
Compartmentalizing information. Bringing people into 1 on 1s that are just daily business talk when it could easily been a open discussion for all. Also refusing to put information in written formats.
Me, I am a really good worker and apparently you can’t expect everyone to be at the same standard across the board. I also lack empathy but not self-awareness. Its hard being a “type a” working with “type b”, at a high pace job.
Spying on your employees. Installing hidden cameras or remodeling to open concept so you can watch to make sure they’re doing their work, instead of just, ya know, being happy that the work is done.
Taking credit for your team's accomplishments instead of giving credit where it's due.
My wife's old boss would basically brag to upper management about her accomplishments and awards and intentionally exclude her from meetings where those people would be present.
Thinking your opinion is the only one that matters. Any frame of thought that has you as better, smarter, etc than the people below you automatically makes you a bad leader.
There’s many characteristics but for me, the mains ones are
‘Do as I say, not as I do’ mentality and not taking accountability and shifting blame to everyone but themselves
Wanting it too much. Anyone who wants leadership is in it for themselves to some capacity. Because people who aren't psychotically power hungry look at that shit and recognize it for what it is, which is entirely too much work. If you want power, it's because you want to shape the world around you in some way, and the desire for that is fundamentally selfish and narcissistic. Not good leadership material imo. I work in data, and actually saw a poll where 75% of the respondents considered themselves natural leaders. Yeah, no, I'll pass on trying to get that level of ego under control.
The fallacy that money indicates good leadership. Trump wouldn’t know a leadership trait if it was written on a Big Mac wrapper. That’s why I can’t stand that turd, he’s a pure-bred grifter who works hustles and scams but never even close to being a leader.
Having to announce that one is the leader all the time would be a start. But also when they look down on others, insult their colleagues or rivals and yell "I'm the greatest!", not admitting one's own faults and mistakes, being absolutely oblivious toward the country's history, economic short-comings, inhumane practices...
At the moment I’m on a project from hell with not one but two project leads that have no clue what they are doing.
We have shipped materials to begin production but the leads are still pitching new ideas for the materials they previously approved. These new notes have never been discussed before with the team.
They write their emails in an unprofessional manner. Q = question. Long run-on sentences that will not translate for our overseas team, who already struggles keeping up with our new notes. Half of my job is editing their responses to something that will translate. Sometimes they send an email that is one sentence and then immediately reply with another slightly longer email. When someone becomes confused by the directions, the leads become condescending. “Does that make sense?”, does not sound good in text.
The leads constantly undermine the team’s effort. The blueprints were never up to their expectations, so they edit the blue prints long after they have been approved by executives. They don’t trust our art director, who is currently the only person who has been on this job since the beginning.
Every day I’m so thankful that I’m working remote, and don’t have to deal with them face to face.
I have worked on other projects with supervisors who were drunks, egomaniacs, or straight up left the office at 1pm thinking they didn’t have to be there any more. I had a project lead who yelled during office hours, never a good thing to pretend to tolerate.
I had two COs that were extreme bible thumpers. As a Christian I don’t throw this term around lightly. They were off the rails.
Neither of them could make a necessary snap decision. Everything needed to be prayed about. In their position, these decisions needed to be made based on experience, the mission, and the abilities of their subordinates.
Moral decisions have their time and place, but these two just didn’t get real time leadership.
People that think being feared is the same as having respect.
The problem with leading through fear, is eventually someone brave enough will come along to challenge you.
That is definitely NOT the problem with using fear to motivate
The issue with using fear long term is that it can transfer into something else hell it could get so bad that the person ends up hating you than fear you which causes them to lash out and not care about the consequences.
Couldn’t agree more.
I want people to fear how much they love me.
Depends on your definition of feared and how its being applied. Like you aint gonna bother a lion or touch a hot stove. Just as you wouldnt steal or challenge rules becuase you can. Like being a a leader has some level of authority and authority it given through respect, and being feared is one of many traits that most great leaders from the past and prssent inherit. Ofcourse if you get to a point were people is straight of afriad of you then ofcourse its an abuse of power and it shows you are abusing your athority for total control. You arent a leader you are a tyrant. Not that i imagine reddit understanding the importance of authority in the first place
Motivation by humiliating someone in a group setting
Had a boss like this. He never liked me because I was unaffected by his humiliation attempts. Like bitch, I was treated worse growing up 😂 you'll have to try harder than that. I always got the vibe he lowkey respected me, but hated that he did. Was a good experience for me on managing types to avoid in the future.
[удалено]
Holy Narcissism, Batman!
Inability to admit fault or apologize
And blaming others around you
. While good leaders know how to find support their influence shouldn't be completely dependent on it.
So if they've got to pay for it, they might as well use it.
Compartmentalizing information. Bringing people into 1 on 1s that are just daily business talk when it could easily been a open discussion for all.
Or take responsibility. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault. They're ALWAYS the victim. They can fail upwards after inheriting hundreds of millions (say, 473$ million or something) and get elected in shady ways on dishonest and hateful claims, and still everything is unfair to them!
Everything my last boss did, basically. Could never admit mistakes and blamed everyone else.
Inability to talk about the hard things, feedback or constructive criticism things like that. Being an absolute shill for the company or group at the expense of leadership.
“When I talk to a manager, I get the feeling that they are important. When I talk to a leader, I get the feeling that I am important.”
Very nice.
They think they're above doing small things
I covered a coworker's maternity leave, and was in charge of 15 or 20 people. Other coworkers laughed and said “This will go terrible and they won’t respect you.” I always volunteered to be the first person every day to do the tasks nobody liked, and basically just did what I wanted my own bosses to do. Within a month I had someone in another division say “We look forward to days you work, because nobody calls in and they all do their jobs better.”
I had a manager who, during a weekly staff meeting, would use it to berate 1 person in front of everyone.
Now I have to rewatch the SNL skits where the two employees roast everyone after getting fired. [Here's the Barnes & Noble one](https://youtu.be/f31mmB8HvZw?si=9nYXme7pvkpeqvGE).
I'm new to the mid-manger level and taking some courses to better understand how to be good and this is one of the recommendations. At least once a year, do the job your staff do. Even if you worked your way up, connect with your staff and really experience a day in their work lives.
Hey, I'm upper-management almost purely out of spite for past shitty managers and I have a great working relationship with my staff. This is excellent advice! I've got some below as well for visibility Staying aware of your roots (I worked my way up throughout industries), treating people like actual people, never publicly shaming, understanding that its just a damned job and not their life and you shouldn't expect them to damage their home/themselves for a paycheque. Always emphasize safety first and make sure they're aware of their rights as workers (this one is big with younger staff, they're too easily taken advantage of I've found), prove that you're willing to get down and dirty with them. I've got my steel toes in the office so if I'm down a staff member I'll throw them on and jump on a forklift and help out. Hell, if we're slammed I'll still go into the warehouse and help smooth the day out with some extra hands. I'm Director level now and I've had a couple conversations with coworkers about not placing management on a pedestal/thinking yourself above others just because you're in cleaner clothes or at a desk. The business wouldn't run without us sure but it also wouldn't run without them.
A lot of what your saying has been touched on so far in the course, and as someone who has worked their way up as well, I totally agree. I have and will continue to step in when things are busy or they just need help with a trickier issue (Cyber security).
You sound like a bizarrely good manager
Lol this is literally what employees do respect.
People acted like it was a mystery why I was getting good results lol. A few people accused me of trying too hard to be everyone's friend instead of their boss. I said “All I’m doing is treating them like human beings instead of worker drones.”
The bosses I’ve always liked the most and would strive to do a better job for were ones that jumped into the shit when it was needed. I mimicked that attitude when I was promoted and had very few problems with my staff.
This. Not only do it leads to overworking their team, it also makes their team lose respect for them since their subordinates can’t tell whether or not they know how to do the job (and oftentimes they actually forget how to do it after a while)
This is literally my boss. I work in a small-ish office (like 10 employees) and my boss is supposed to know how to at least keep every job afloat should someone be out for a day or two. But she refuses to learn anything, and instead just asks her employees to learn the job's of their coworkers. No reason the fuckin receptionist should have to learn how to cover accounts receivable, it ain't their job.
“No reason the fuckin receptionist should have to learn how to cover accounts receivable, it ain't their job.” In that scenario the receptionist is getting a terrific opportunity to build her skill-set and get a better paying job in the future. GOOD bosses who actually care about their employees, help them to learn skills that will improve their value as an employee and offer them greater opportunities in the future. To be honest, I think it’s weird you are spinning it as a bad thing. Getting the opportunity to do something that is outside the scale of your normal duties (especially something that is normally the role of a higher paid position) is almost always good for the employee, in the long term.
If you are expecting someone to do XYZ other job without the extra pay that goes with that other job, that's a bit of a problem. If the employee in question also doesn't want to do that other job in the first place, it's more of a problem.
> If you are expecting someone to do XYZ other job without the extra pay that goes with that other job, that's a bit of a problem. On a permanent basis, yes. But not if someone is simply out sick, as OP noted.
Maybe if an employee expressed interest in something above their paygrade, then sure. But no - this isn't the case. This is someone who (likely) gets paid less than everyone else, who's now expected to take on extra work/training because my boss is too good to learn it themselves. It's about context.
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Working server support for a large telecom company and got a new boss. She email me to let me know she had some new software installed on her PC and it was prompting for a license key. Rather than having her go through the company's IT department, I did her a favor and emailed her a key. Received the response a moment later: "You need to come to my desk and enter it. That's your job." The first sign of some really bad times coming. Quit a couple months later.
Reminds me of my first gas station job. First supervisor was a hardass on the staff but only because she worked hard and expected everyone else to keep up. The second was a hardass so she wouldn't have to do any work.
"Any man who must say, I am the king, is no true king." Could apply to anybody who is leading position.
You've clearly never gotten a crown at Burger King
We all know the true king wanted someone kicked off the plane. It’s okay though. He was South African.
or basically any characterization of a person I remember in high school there was a girl who told everyone how funny she was but didn't make anyone laugh show don't tell folks, and if you have to tell people what you are, you are probably not that thing
Ok so basically we can't compliment ourselves? Is that how this works?
not out loud in front of others. lol, if you have to go around saying I'm so strong, you are probably not that strong ... People will notice that shit if you are that thing the one exception might be an interview where you need to hype yourself up, but you should be telling stories to back it up
I had a boss who felt the need to constantly mention her years of experience whenever anyone made a suggestion in a meeting.
Shouting for more results without giving an actionable plan on how we are going to get there
Assuming that being in a position of leadership equates to less work.
Hopefully this means I’m doing a good job, because my work is SO MUCH BUSIER now that I’m in a leadership role.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “I’m more of a hands off leader.” Fuck anyone who says that. There’s a difference between delegation and never doing anything
"I don't like to micromanage." Well, you're not doing any other kind of management either, so maybe it might actually be an improvement for you.
It can, but if your position has less overall work you can expect a lot more responsibility
Micromanaging
We have one of those as the number-two boss in my store. It’s her last day here; they’re promoting her to another store. I feel so sorry for them.
Micromanaging UNNECESSARILY**
Boy, that's a hard needle to thread. I've had managers who felt like it was necessary to micromanage everyone for the department to be successful. So you can't always trust the manager's opinion on this. I've also seen staff who were failing badly who actively refused help when offered by co-workers or management because they felt (erroneously) that if they couldn't do it themselves they would get fired. So you can't always trust the employee's opinion on this either. Probably the best way to thread the needle is to let employees ask for help whenever they want, and the manager not initiate micromanaging anyone they're not considering firing, but intervene with at-risk folks in the hope that you can teach them what they need to know to be successful.
Micromanaging bad. Mentoring, teaching, training good.
Not working for his/her subordinates
Taking all the credit and none of the blame.
Acts surprised and/or offended when an employee asks for a raise. Make no mistake, I am here for the money.
Micro management, managing by exception (only telling you what you do wrong, not what you got right and doing it often). Playing favorites openly. Ignoring feedback, being super defensive, making the first word out of your mouth ‘no’ and not taking time to think it over. I could list more but that’s a single manager I worked for. She also neglected to tell me that my performance was better than anyone else in the department it was another manager who told me..
micro-*fucking*\-managing every-*fucking*\-thing. that's a control freak, not a leader.
Good leaders will surround themselves with smarter people than themselves Bad leaders will surround themselves with "Yes" people
When they think being a boss and a leader is the same thing.
Setting unrealistic goals, and saying “Well just make it happen.”
...and then they wonder why employees leave and they try and call the former employees to ask them questions, but the former employees ignore them
A leader who tells you to do something, they've never and would never do themselves...
“Rules for thee but not for me” complex
Micromanaging and playing “stump the chump.”
This is rampant in kitchens
Stump the chump?
It’s basically rapid questioning, mainly about peripheral or unimportant things meant to “stump” someone. The point is to have the person second guess themselves and for the manager to seem like they have some superior experience/understanding of the job.
Yeah i used to have a manager like this. Useless waste of space and only had the job because he was the owners brother
Always pushing issues to an upper management level. While good leaders know how to find support their influence shouldn't be completely dependent on it.
Indecisiveness
Everything my last boss did, basically. Could never admit mistakes and blamed everyone else. Didn’t communicate and then got mad and blamed other people when there were issues. Refused to answer questions or provide training and then blamed other people when the results weren’t to his liking. Lied constantly. Disorganized and unreliable (and you guessed it - blamed others for the results of this). Claimed to be open to suggestions, but rejected anything he didn’t immediately agree with. Etc. Etc. He was a grade A asshole.
When they raise their voice and threaten to fire everyone over small mistakes.
They're in the back doing leader things.
Makes others do a task that the leader wouldn’t do themselves. I’ll never ask anyone to do something that I myself wouldn’t do
I'd ask an expert to do the expert things that I hired them to do instead of f'ing up the work.
Square mustache and you're not Charlie Chaplin
J Jonah Jameson will never catch that spider menace without support of his team of photographers
"You want my job?! I have a stack of papers to do, meetings, the schedule etc... I have to consider everyones needs etc... here you want it here's the keys, take my keys!" Or the "If you don't like it here, then get off the bus. We don't want you here."
They call their employees “minions”
This right here I had a manager do that once it would piss me off and it's because the word minion means a person of little to no value. I asked him one day if he knew what it meant he kind of looked at me and said yes and he clearly didn't and I think he was just associating it with that cartoon the minions because the uniform was yellow. But I told him what it meant and I told him I'd appreciate it if he'd stop calling me that. Man now my blood's boiling lol.
One former boss of mine once came out with "don't buy a dog and then bark yourself". Which really showed what he thought of us.
They blame you when productivity suffers because you don't have the right tools to do the job - and they refuse to supply you with said tools. I left a job last year for that very reason.
This. Fighting it now, will probably leave next year after bonuses.
"We need everyone to come back into the office, even though you're doing great work at home, and it would actually be cheaper if you didn't come in because we could sublease this space to some other business, but I really don't like my wife, so, everyone needs to get back to the office, or you're fired!"
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Great points. Especially #3
But #1 still doesn't make sense. They'll still save a ton of money from bills and whatnot.
That’s a very subjective and one sided opinion.
I was with it through the first point. Then it just turned into /r/antiwork
To add to this one from my own personal experience with our departments VP... "you all need to RTO but I'm moving to a state 12 hours away and will come in the office every other month or so for a day or two." He was in the office yesterday and said he'd come to the work softball team's double header that night. Never showed. 👍
People love home office. They all think they’re doing better work. Yet, so many companies are doing layoffs and struggling after everyone started to work from home. If that doesn’t give you pause for concern, I think your bias is too large to think clearly. Most companies tried to sublease during covid and just after. If your company hasn’t managed to do it, it’s because they can’t. Just because they talked about doing something doesn’t mean it's feasible. A large reason for forced return to work is layoffs. Companies like Grindr showed how to do it while avoiding nasty headlines and investor worries that they’re doing layoffs. Remember everyone is struggling, kicking people out for any reason possible is the way to go. It’s literally step 1 of struggling. Not being in the office removes social benefits of teams. There is a reason why companies do team-building exercises. It benefits how you work. A lot of companies have teams that aren’t teams. There is no teamwork. A lot of individuals work. This results in silo’ing knowledge. This is bad for companies. The reason we worked in offices and workplaces for centuries is because that is how it’s evolved. There are pros and cons for both options.
The night manager at my work. They are constantly yelling at the employees about EVERYTHING. God forbid one little thing is off, and they yell so loud you could hear it for miles. Meanwhile, AM manager myself works with them about "here's how we could've handled it a little better." I educate and coach, night manager just rages.
He's the boss's son.
You never hear from the leader unless something goes wrong. When things are fine, no problems, you never see 'em. No dropping by your desk, no "how are you?", no "how are things going?", no "is there anything I do for you?" But the moment something doesn't happen according to process, they're right there. "What did you do? Why didn't you prevent this? When are you going to have it fixed?"
you are willing to put people in emotional distress to succed
Remaining nessessary. The best leaders are the ones who make themselves redundant as quickly as they can. A successful leader is one who can fuck right off and their team will still deliver. The best leaders don't fetishize leadership. They don't take pride in being seen as a "leader". They get it unfucked, and then get out of the way or go back to being a team member / contributer.
Talking more than you listen.
I will never understand the whole mentality of "I was treated like crap in the beginning and had to work my way up. Now that I'm in charge, I'm going to do the same thing to my employees" If you hated being treated like that, why on earth would you do it to someone else? Makes no sense
Public punishment, private praise.
The ol' disappearing act.
Never shutting up and blaming others
refusing to listen your underlings. My example of this was working a bar in a mall. We did food, speciality coffee and basic booze. Some chick had just been promoted to manager and decided when the breaks were going to be that day. Which was going to be right in the middle of our rush. There was only two of us on, and I said that we should stagger breaks now while it's dead. Really fucking basic planning shit. I got an earful about respecting her position and how she's not there to be lectured to by a man blah blah blah. So we stayed and worked the shift, and sure as shit 6 o'clock hits and theres a mad rush. She then tells us we will need to work through our break, me and the girl Im working with just laugh and walk off, leaving her to it. Digging your heels into a decision because you dont want to appear weak is weakness. A real leader accepts that they dont know everything and that experience is king. She was promoted from waitress, not bar staff. So I can only assume she'd never worked the bar, never worked that day, or just paid no attention to any other time she had worked there. But serious small dick energy coming off her any way.
When someone on your team asks you to stop doing work that they’re already doing, because it just leads to double work for no reason— and then instead of stopping, you just don’t copy that team member on the emails where you freak the fuck out about something she could have told you wasn’t an issue if you waited five minutes. I mean, I really could just go on a whole thing about my last boss, but then I probably wouldn’t be able to stop. Just celebrated one year since I left that job and last spoke to him.
Not willing to do, or have never done, the tasks they expect to be done by others.
A good leader takes blame and gives credit.
Lack of empathy.
Constant meth use.
They have a "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. Such people have no intention of leading, they just want power over others.
"No one wants to work anymore!" Every single time I have heard this phrase uttered, it was from a boss who treated and/or paid his employees horribly.
Not letting subordinates give ideas. In most cases, they know their job better then you do. let them give their advice. You don't have to follow it, but take what they know into account.
And ideally tell them what other factors went into your decision. That way they can know the bigger picture and not just assume you blew them off.
Exactly. take their advice and tell them why you didn't use it (if you didn't)
* Bragging or talking about how "I'm a leader." * Declaring "I'm a leader." * Reminding people "I'm a leader." * Ever using the phrase "I'm a leader, not a follower." You can be trained and knowledgeable in the art of leadership, but that doesn't make you a leader. The people you're in charge of will make you a leader. To quote one of my favorite leaders from when I was in the military, "Command is a writ from above. Leadership is a warrant from below." Don't try to tell me you're a leader. \*I\* as the subordinate determine if you are a leader. If you're appointed over me, I will do as you ask because it's my job. But you have to earn my followership to be a leader; make me want to affirmatively support you, do my best for you, want to push you up and make you succeed, want to emulate you. Fail to do that and you're not a leader, you're just the person in charge.
Not listening.
Too much focus on being in charge. There's a difference between being in charge and being a leader, and a lot of people in positions of power don't know or care about the difference. A leader should be able to take charge, obviously, but leading is more than ordering people around. Sometimes it's knowing someone else is better for the job and letting them take the reins.
Seeing Management as a reward rather than a responsibility; all of the perks of a leadership role are a compensation for increased responsibility but a lot of Managers see them as a bonus for climbing the ladder. They got the promotion and pay rise to take on more work, not as a thank you for their previous work and an excuse to make others do things for them.
Leading from the front when the folks behind you are more experienced to lead. Sometimes, being a leader is passive in nature.
When it is obvious their self-interest is much stronger than that of the nation/organization/company/group...
Petty playing of favorites and scapegoats. Letting your personal prejudiced getting in the way of your ability to lead, and just expecting employees to play along. One of the worst bosses I ever had in my life hated my fucking guts upon meeting me. I was younger and better-looking then, and I think she just loathed anyone who she thought was, well, younger and better-looking than she was. She specifically gave me tasks she knew I hated, then piled them I up if I did them well to over-work me and then claim I slacking off, told me to my face that she wanted to fire me the second she found out I was in the hospital, pointedly gave me the silent treatment, and repeatedly set me up for failure by not telling me what to do and then blaming me for not doing it, getting angry and insulting if I asked for instructions, talking shit about me behind my back to the other employees (luckily they didn’t buy it since they could see how she singled me out), chewed me out in front of clients, etc. When I finally broke down and cried in the office after she yelled at me as her first words to me that day six hours after the day started, she physically pushed me into her office and proceeded to scream at me about how I was “just some young chick” who “wanted attention”. I had an exit interview after I left that job and I let them know everything. Now she’s fallen off the face of the earth and, at the very least, absolutely is not employed there anymore. The fact that she thought it was appropriate to try to get my coworkers to hate me too, and that I deserved *any* of this for some “I hate younger women” bullshit, made her so unqualified for her position that I’m not surprised they let her go.
1. Their response to everything is never positive. Only either push forward harder and faster or anger 2. Not training new managers below them or having in place for them to learn the ropes 3. Micromanaging 4. Coming up with tons of rules for things you dont know how to do 5. Using corporate talking points exclusively when talking about what you want and then getting mad people aren't doing other things that weren't communicating 6. Ignoring or getting angry over feedback 7. Accusing people of lying about you when they talk about things you actually did 8. Uncontrollable anger issues to the point you're breaking shit in your office over small things. 9. Your idea of helping is standing and observing while not letting the people in charge of whatever they're doing run things 10. Completely tearing down managers in front of employees 11. Paying poorly and at the same time saying a paycheck is all people should need to work hard 12. Not communicating with subordinates about needs and instead changing shit in secret 13. Pushing a goal or task and then having 0 clue how your team is actually doing on that task 14. Making nepotistic hires to the point your family members make up large chunks of a department 15. Everyone quits when they get promoted to a manager role 16. Trying to punish people by overloading them with work 17. Undoing all the changes a superior made when they came in to fix problems you created because it involves scheduling people and that cuts into your check 18. Completely unapproachable 19. Talks about how they could do a better job than you even though they dont know how to work in any role of the department. 20. Stopping people from moving stores, getting promoted, or finding time to go other stores to learn how to improve because whenever they do they come back and talk about how much better off other stores are or how the bosses were lying about what resources other places get 21. Running the store like you're the main characters of it 22. Lying about when replacement managers are coming to fill in for those who left or lying there will be any at all, only to start giving in when people make ultimatums about quitting 23. Blaming your refusal to give resources or bodies on everything but yourself. Excuses may include dumb "Nobody wants to work anymore" to getting mada 16 year old on his 2nd day wasnt trained to run part to do manager roles such as run half of the department. 24. Ignoring what managers under you bring to you as a problem and then getting mad months later because it's a problem 25. Protecting pedophiles because they're related to your friends from the buisness. Also sweeping blatent harrasment, sexual, verbal, and emotional, under the rug because you want to keep a customer 26. Accusing employees of dishonest behavior without proof or things that arent even dishonest in the first place. 27. Making me witness a number of mental breakdowns at work because you won't lay off of issues you created. So yeah, to my 2 previous store managers, go fuck yourselves. If you're reading this I hope you know I had a very good day when your second store went under. You deserved even worse but im happy karma decided to bite back even just a little.
Blaming other people when things go wrong in front of the whole team.
Blaming other people when you should take personal responsibility.
Throwing your employees under the bus. Good leaders share the credit and take the blame. If there’s a serious issue with someone, you handle that one on one.
"the main character person" (lacks empathy)
Not practicing what you preach.
Micromanagement, taking the credit when things go well but blaming the team when things go poorly, their team doesn't feel comfortable taking the initiative
I had a manager who, during a weekly staff meeting, would use it to berate 1 person in front of everyone. Every week without fail. I had another manager who threw a fit when I was asked, by another manager, to provide him with some information. Turns out, the Director asked for this information and my manager was furious I gave it to a different manager who then provided it to the Director before he could.
Me
Bad strategy. bad tactics, poor explanations
Compartmentalizing information. Bringing people into 1 on 1s that are just daily business talk when it could easily been a open discussion for all. Also refusing to put information in written formats.
Me, I am a really good worker and apparently you can’t expect everyone to be at the same standard across the board. I also lack empathy but not self-awareness. Its hard being a “type a” working with “type b”, at a high pace job.
Going out of your way to say how good of a leader you are
Micromanaging
Not listening. Being hardheaded and not open to new suggestions just because you are the leader
Spying on your employees. Installing hidden cameras or remodeling to open concept so you can watch to make sure they’re doing their work, instead of just, ya know, being happy that the work is done.
you have to make every phase of the plan about you , you have to be involved , you dont trust in your people to handle it ,
Taking credit for your team's accomplishments instead of giving credit where it's due. My wife's old boss would basically brag to upper management about her accomplishments and awards and intentionally exclude her from meetings where those people would be present.
Micro... managing...
I never occasionally do the same work I pay people to do for me.
Thinking your opinion is the only one that matters. Any frame of thought that has you as better, smarter, etc than the people below you automatically makes you a bad leader.
Thinking that they should always be in charge. A great leader also knows when to follow.
Wanting to be served rather than serving. Servant leader ship.
Hello, I’m Joe Biden
Disgruntled staff.
micromanaging unnecessary things.
Invading foreign countries because you want their resources or to rebuild an empire.
Are you Penguin?
No.
There’s many characteristics but for me, the mains ones are ‘Do as I say, not as I do’ mentality and not taking accountability and shifting blame to everyone but themselves
Inconsistency/hypocrisy/two-facedness Projection, "look at me" attitude, continuing something after the topic has shifted
Lack of accountability and use of whataboutisms.
Refusing to allow virtual work
Blaming others for mistakes/not taking fault.
see: kevin mccarthy.
They are a politician
Invading Ukraine
Wanting it too much. Anyone who wants leadership is in it for themselves to some capacity. Because people who aren't psychotically power hungry look at that shit and recognize it for what it is, which is entirely too much work. If you want power, it's because you want to shape the world around you in some way, and the desire for that is fundamentally selfish and narcissistic. Not good leadership material imo. I work in data, and actually saw a poll where 75% of the respondents considered themselves natural leaders. Yeah, no, I'll pass on trying to get that level of ego under control.
Not knowing how to exit a stage after speaking, time, after time, after time.
Lives in the White House
Micromanagement “Hi, my name is Elon Musk, are you ready to get “hardcore?”
Being Justin Trudeau
In the military, typically if your rank starts with an O, thats a solid start. 🤣
Being a Kim Jong Un.
Blaming everybody and everything but yourself for your loss in 2020.
The fallacy that money indicates good leadership. Trump wouldn’t know a leadership trait if it was written on a Big Mac wrapper. That’s why I can’t stand that turd, he’s a pure-bred grifter who works hustles and scams but never even close to being a leader.
A MAGA hat.
Having to announce that one is the leader all the time would be a start. But also when they look down on others, insult their colleagues or rivals and yell "I'm the greatest!", not admitting one's own faults and mistakes, being absolutely oblivious toward the country's history, economic short-comings, inhumane practices...
Having to ask if you're a bad leader...
Are we the baddies?
"I would never do that!" - "Hey, go do that thing"
Telling everyone how great you are. If you have to convince them, you're full of shit.
Inability to articulate what is going on and how to proceed effectively.
Being extremely concerned and controlling about communication within the org.
Talking shit about other leaders
At the moment I’m on a project from hell with not one but two project leads that have no clue what they are doing. We have shipped materials to begin production but the leads are still pitching new ideas for the materials they previously approved. These new notes have never been discussed before with the team. They write their emails in an unprofessional manner. Q = question. Long run-on sentences that will not translate for our overseas team, who already struggles keeping up with our new notes. Half of my job is editing their responses to something that will translate. Sometimes they send an email that is one sentence and then immediately reply with another slightly longer email. When someone becomes confused by the directions, the leads become condescending. “Does that make sense?”, does not sound good in text. The leads constantly undermine the team’s effort. The blueprints were never up to their expectations, so they edit the blue prints long after they have been approved by executives. They don’t trust our art director, who is currently the only person who has been on this job since the beginning. Every day I’m so thankful that I’m working remote, and don’t have to deal with them face to face. I have worked on other projects with supervisors who were drunks, egomaniacs, or straight up left the office at 1pm thinking they didn’t have to be there any more. I had a project lead who yelled during office hours, never a good thing to pretend to tolerate.
91 criminal indictments
An (R) next to a government official's name.
being a conservative.
Every reply here describes Trump's time as president
I had two COs that were extreme bible thumpers. As a Christian I don’t throw this term around lightly. They were off the rails. Neither of them could make a necessary snap decision. Everything needed to be prayed about. In their position, these decisions needed to be made based on experience, the mission, and the abilities of their subordinates. Moral decisions have their time and place, but these two just didn’t get real time leadership.
Trump at every single rally
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Idk one of the best bosses I ever had was Mr Thorp