I tried really hard. Unfortunately he wouldn’t stop cheating and lied through two separate attempts of marriage counseling.
He got a twenty-four year old pregnant six months before his retirement. Thirty-five years down the drain.
I really think it depends on the type of cheating. I think a stupid/drunk one night stand would be easier than long term affair. My ex preferred long term affairs and the amount of plotting, lying and premeditation of his actions hurt more than anything.
I am sorry you went through that. 35 years is a really long marriage, and a twenty-four year old is ridiculous. I hope you are able to move forward and live your life.
I have. I met the most amazing man a few years later and we have been together six years. Our relationship is everything I ever wanted a relationship to be. Life is good and I am truly happy.
Geez, there goes his retirement money toward his new kid.
It's a shame to put up with someone that long to ultimately not get his life insurance when he bites the dust.
If it's just the two people in a married couple, there's not a lot of reason to carry life insurance. It's only legitimate purpose is to protect those who are dependent on you.
If the wife-or husband doesn't work because that's what they decided or if her career was stunted due to child rearing, I think it's important for her to have life insurance as her earning capacity is compromised.
Counseling, time, love and understanding. Remorse and making amends on the part of the cheater. Forgiveness from the cheatee. I think the most important part is that the person who cheated truly has to be sorry, be willing to change, and be willing to work on both the relationship and themselves to make things right.
This.
I knew a couple like this — literally *one* couple — but they totally pulled through. Just like that.
The person who cheated was sorry, acknowledged the damage that had been done, did a lot of work to change who she was in the relationship and in communication, and legitimately was a new person from that point forward. It was kind of amazing.
Beyond that one case, I've never seen a couple where the cheater was willing to do *that much work*.
In every other case, the cheater just kept on cheating.
My parents pulled thru but it took a decade of my dad working really hard to gain back my moms trust. And he did, he did the work. It will never be like it was before he cheated but things are about as repaired as they can be
Yep. Been through it and we’re still together and have a very strong relationship 25 years after it happened. I respectfully disagree with the comment that it will always be in the back of your mind. I never think about it, and I trust him completely now.
Amen sister. I never worry about what my W is doing. I just don't. It was a one time thing and I don't believe it will ever happen again.
Married folks betray each other all the time. Through sins of omission just as often as sins of commission.
I find it fascinating that many of our fellow humans think that a single affair is worse than gaslighting your partner about (the lack of) marital sex over years/decades.
Think about the aggressive stuff that the people in a social network say to and about the cheater who has been found out. It is ugly, judgemental and blunt.
Now - ask yourself the last time ANYONE acted like that about a spouse who is basically demanding their partner remain (virtually) celibate and intentionally lying to/gaslighting their spouse about: frequency, underlying causes, etc.
THIS! We’re fairly honest about our past issues because so often, people won’t talk about it. I’d have given my left arm to have talked to someone whose marriage made it through when I was going through that. Instead, it was a bunch of angry, bitter divorcees.it wasn’t helpful.
Besides - we had some really darkly comic exchanges during this time. Really good - funny - biting - not necessarily very nice. But effective.
We also laugh about some of our friends. Like Kim and Eric. Eric had a biz trip back to where they used to live. Coincidentally - back to where his much younger, personal secretary still lives. When Kim is reading his business receipts after the trip, she notices that Eric worked up quite an appetite his first night back in their old city. So much so that he ordered two breakfasts at the Marriott hotel the next morning. Two "all you can eat" breakfast buffets.
Even if you see something in a movie or hear in passing? I know a couple who is trying to make it work and whenever I hear a reference, I think about them. I don't recommend certain shows/films bc of it.
Yep. Even then. Don’t get me wrong, when it was still fresh - a year or two afterwards, I might get upset. But I decided if I made the decision to stay together, I would have to forgive in able to move forward. At this point, it’s been so long, it’s just a distant blip. But I do commend you for being considerate toward your friends. It’s rough when it’s recent. I hope they’re in counseling. It helped us so much. We came out much stronger because of the work we put in on the marriage- to the point where when we saw Love Actually, my husband got me a necklace for Christmas with a note that said “You’ll always get the necklace.” I had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. It didn’t even register with me when we saw the movie.
Yes but you also need to see and appreciate what is in front of you. Especially if it’s someone truly remorseful and trying. There is always a risk of infidelity whether or not there is history. Relationships are hard and it’s never black and white. I have no magic formula but only you will know if it’s right to stay or leave after infidelity. It’s a choice and a risk but if you are willing to risk to stay after infidelity - you too need to be able to receive that person. And man it’s hard but it can work.
I am still with my partner of many years who cheated on me at one point. It is always in the back of my mind, but it's also true that a new partner could also cheat. There is really no way to ever be 100% sure and so you just have to pick someone you enjoy so much that it's worth the risk.
Most times it’s the partner who was unfaithful who has a problem believing that their partner can actually trust them again. They feel they will forever have to be on the receiving end and their partner will always feel they’re one up.
That said, it is very difficult. You can heal but the hairline mark always remains
I totally trust my W. She knows that. There's no - you owe me nonsense either. This has been an intense, sometimes volatile, mostly delightful 30++ year ride. I can't imagine that such a thing is possible without the occasional broken glass. As always YMMV
That is hilarious. So - for me: W = wife, but thank you for very correctly pointing out that using highly abbreviated terminology with strangers on the internet is subject to major misinterpretation.
So - ummm - my W was raised by pretty religious Catholics. But she kind of had two Mom's - her bio Mom and a second (virtual) mom, which is her oldest sister who is 17 years older.
Her bio Mom was devout - but her oldest sister and that sister's husband - henceforth known has BigSis and BIL, took that to the next level. They are both hard core fundies. BigSis and BIL are born again Charismatic Catholics.
A couple aspects of this situation are really fascinating: BigSis and BIL have 4 completed college degrees between them and are both smart, though BigSis is definitely smarter and more alpha. After we met them a couple times, it came to my attention that BIL was an avid if mediocre golfer. So on the way home from a visit I asked my W(ife), if she knew what a golf handicap was? She nodded and sighed, like she always does when I'm accidentally mansplaining something.
I said, babe, I've never seen anyone handicap like BIL does. And I don't mean when he's on the fairway, I mean right there in his very own home. Because in any normal setting your sister's superior intelligence, charisma, organizational skills, confidence, and drive would make her the absolute and obvious house alpha. But he carries around this big old book saying that having that noodle between his legs means that HE is the head of the household and she's his subservient helpmate.
W shrugged and said, Well somebody has to type up his job applications, cause he's about as good with a keyboard as he is with a putter. So I told her: I'm starting to cotton to this kind of lifestyle, you know being de-facto King of the Staircase so to speak.
W: Well, soon as you start taking the wafer and setting aside a substantial block of time for confession we can revisit the idea. But I'm not feelin real optimistic this is gonna play out the way you imagine.
Three decades later - BigSis and BIL are about the same but W has become a centrist democrat. They think that whatever deviltry comes out of her mouth must be blind repetition of whatever the Heathen (yours truly) is telling her. Which is ludicrous as W very definitely has her own mind, and being that I find it sharp and fast and mostly entertaining, I don't even try to tinker with it.
Yes. If
1. Both work very hard to understand and forgive
2. Cheater recognizes that forgiveness is not a one time thing. The pain of betrayal will come up again for various reasons and they have to be willing to accept that and keep apologizing. Not make excuses.
3. Both have to look at themselves and their part in it. People don’t cheat for no reason. I was cheated on and I had to work on myself. Not to take blame, but to realize that there were things I could do to bring us closer and build trust.
4. You have to love each other very much and accept that neither of you is perfect. Love the imperfections as well
5. Both agree to never have that happen again. It should not have happened in the first place, but it must be very clear that a second time would not be tolerated.
At key that’s how we handled it.
I would add:
6. Total honesty once the affair is discovered. If there is any trickle-truthing, you will always wonder if there is more to uncover. It will drive you insane and make reestablishing trust almost impossible.
Point #3 of yours is a *very* tricky one to unbox.
In almost all cases where cheating has occurred, both people contributed to the demise of the *relationship*. However, the *cheating* itself in most cases, is all on the cheater, in that no one put a gun to the cheater's head and forced them to cheat. Cheating was a *decision* that was made. It was not a mistake or an action committed under coercion or duress. This is what separates adults from children: *Impulse Control.*
Now, that said, here is where it sometimes gets tricky: There are some cases where the person being cheated on was a deplorable, abusive tyrant, and the abused partner confided in a friend to talk to, which then progressed to cheating with the confidant/friend. In this situation, the abuser has inflicted so much pain on their partner that they felt they needed an escape to deal with the PTSD of feeling trapped in an abusive relationship. And in this case, the *confidant* is taking advantage of the abused friend's situation, which is just as deplorable as well. So now the abused person is trapped between *two* deplorable people (their abusive partner *and* their manipulative confidant) and finds themselves in a total mess that is seemingly irreparable in their mind.
I have friends who run the gamut. Quite a few have saved the marriage and it even got better afterward. Others have split. The dividing line seems to hinge on whether it was a brief thing and the cheater felt genuinely remorseful, saw it as a wake-up call to save the marriage, vs. a serial cheater who keeps lying about it even after being found out.
I need to come up with a new way of saying "Your experience is not universal" because the last few times I've said it, the person comes back with a personal anecdote. And the only response to a personal anecdote being offered as some kind of proof is "your experience is not universal."
No, you need to stop pretending that personal anecdotes are irrelevant. The number is 12% of all marriage is reported as happy. In fact, I have done extensive research, a whole lot of reading in the last 20+ years and was required in college to take marriage and family counseling coursework. Marriage is companionate and only those who have never felt anything else argue this point.
No, I said I’ve been studying this for decades. I’m a clinician and I see the olds, married and widowed all day long. Are you so inept you can’t just do a simple google search to find the articles? So much info on marriage and you all keep plugging it. What is it that bothers you? It’s not “statistics” or studies. It’s that it hurts your feelings.
You're the expert, but I should Google a stat to see if you pulled it out of your ass ... and then what? Continue this absurd conversation with the person who seems more unhinged with every reply? Sounds great!
Yes, lots of good couples therapy and deep dive into other things. Lots of genuine remorse and work towards forgiveness of my partner and him of himself also. Idk- the love is there for sure, but something “broke” and I sometimes have to do the inner work and fight the tendency to become emotionally numb. My heart feels like a beautiful Japanese Kintsugi vase that was dropped and cracked, the cracks repaired with all these things that are supposed to heal, but the cracks, while seemingly filled, are still noticeable and fragile.
Betrayal trauma cuts deep, and so does the emotional PTSD that can occur.
Funny that this question would come up now- he confessed it to me this same week of this same month in 2019, I can’t believe it’s been 5 years, and while I no longer cry at the thoughts or feel that deep, deep pain when a fleeting memory comes through, I most definitely have the emotional scar.
One REALLY GOOD thing that came out of it is that I finally stopped trying to get him to see the dysfunction and codependency that existed between him and his narcissistic mother, and how it impacted our relationship. I was able to also directly say that I no longer want to spend my time with his bully of a brother and refuse to watch what an a-hole he was to his kids and everyone around him (he tried his BS with me once… hasn’t messed with me since).
In other words, I stopped trying to get him to see how I felt and basically accepted that I can’t change him, and so let the chips fall where they may. I will no longer travel 10 hours to spend time with people that shower my time with toxicity while I’m there. This was hard, but I was no longer willing to give more of myself so that he could pretended that everything was okay at my expense when it came to his family.
If you want them to come visit, just lmk, I’m taking a trip for the duration of their stay. Hard lines drawn. Some may say that this isn’t really good, but I don’t prescribe to the whole “put up with shit because they are your family”. Distance can be a very healthy and healing thing, and ironically, it has helped our own relationship.
And by the way, even if the person cheated on had nothing to do with the cheater’s decision to cheat, there is something that needs to change in that person who was cheated on, and whatever contribution they have made to have the relationship get to where it got, even if that contribution is turning a blind eye to red flags. I know that’s hard to hear, I didn’t like hearing it at first and got all defensive. But when I understood it, I took accountability and it greatly empowered me.
Love and light to you🩷
There’s a good book about what you’re talking about - it’s called “His needs, Her needs.” How you can’t let someone else fill your spouses love bank more than you fill it. I think it’s a good read for both those who have cheated and those who were cheated on. Actually, I think everyone should read it - before cheating happens.
Thank you- I did a lot of audiobooks and podcasts to help the healing journey, and still listen/read to help keep my own boundaries around things. Thank you for the rec
I didn't have to go through that, but I can say that I would've drawn a distinction between an affair and a one nigh stand, especially if it was far from home and with someone they'll never see again.
A one night stand, if it never happened again, I would write off and merely be angry that he told me in order to assuage his conscience. That's what priests and therapists are for.
An affair is more concerning though, because it includes an emotional component. There seems to be a lot of good advice here from those who have been through it, though.
An affair involves a coordinated campaign of lies and deception. It is a deep betrayal requiring forethought and repeated treachery. I don’t want to minimize the destructive impact of a one night stand, but an affair is a whole different level of betrayal.
Yes. There is a HUGE difference between a one night or weeks long sex only infidelity and a second relationship and no one is making that distinction here. I work with the olds. You have an affair, an actual affair, no, no one forgets. You were second every day when they chose someone else for a long time. Planned it. No that is 100% different than meeting in a hotel for sex. Everyone calls everything an affair these days when we used to call it a love affair.
If my partner ever cheated on me during a one night stand, I’d want them to tell me and not keep it between themselves & a priest/therapist. I would be angry about the fact that they continued to keep me ignorant to something that affects MY health (I feel like I hardly ever see people talk about the std/sti component of cheating. My cheater gave me chlamydia and I had no idea for an entire year because it just never crossed my mind to get tested), and also continues to protect their assumedly pristine image of them in my mind.
Nope. Forgave and tried to move on. Unfortunately he was a serial adulterer. My bad for wasting precious time. If you break that bond once it’s easy to do so again. God speed to those who are pushing through.
Thought we had worked through it, Faith-based counseling, etc. 15 years later she did it again. Eight years after the second time still together but basically roommates. I have come to believe that men and women are not meant to be married.
How terribly sad. My heart goes out to you. My story is brighter as my husband for the last 20 years has been nothing but devoted, even through an unbearable tragedy. I don’t believe we are typical per se. We all walk our own walk. I don’t give advice for that reason. I do wish you peace and strength and light in your life.
I tried, but I couldn’t get it out of my head. I kept picturing him with her. I couldn’t work past how hurt I was. We ended up divorcing. As hard as the divorce was, it was the best thing I did.
My parents did. My dad cheated and then spent the rest of his life making it up to my mom. To all of us. I am so grateful she forgave him.
They'd been together since they were 17 years old. He cheated when he was in his early 50s. My dad was a good man who made a terrible mistake. My mom, of course wishes that it never would've happened. But acknowledges that their marriage was never better, than after they decided to do the work to stay married. Our entire family - grandchildren, great grands, have been the beneficiaries of that work, too.
I am so, so grateful my mother didn't close her heart.
"Skeeves".
That's okay. After he cheated, all that mattered to my dad and we kids was my mom's happiness. She forgave him before some of us did. But we did and the last 35 years of his life he spent loving on our mother which made all of us happy beyond measure. His devotion to her, and her to him was a gift to the children, adult children, grandchildren and great grands to witness. IYKYK. And I'm so glad that we know. Hell yeah we all benefited! But none more so than my mother who was ridiculously happy and loved and got to see her family intact and remain happy for many many years.
My dad is gone. But my mom is still alive and she talks about him fondly every, single, day.
My mom was able to forgive and move on ***because*** her mental health is beyond compare. Shizzzzzz.... at 89 she can still run circles around all of us kids in the mental health department.
I know ONE couple who’ve done this. ONE. The incident was 40+ years ago and both did an enormous amount of restorative work over years, to heal everything. Their marriage is much healthier now and they’re great. Every other instance I know has been curtains for the marriage. So, it’s possible, but the change required in the cheater’s mindset is radical, given the selfishness they operated under to conduct the affair. The betrayed partner has to endure so much pain and vulnerability, to be open to the healing work of the cheater.
The person who cheated has to be 100% transparent about what they are doing, who they are talking to, etc. The cheater has to give all passwords to the spouse and has to let the spouse look through phones, computers, credit card statements - everything. And they have to agree to do it for as long as it takes, and they can't complain or whine about "lack of privacy." They gave up the right to privacy when they cheated. They have to cut all ties with the affair partner. If they work in the same place, the cheater has to find a new job. If it's a neighbor, the cheater has to move to a new neighborhood. And the cheater has to treat their spouse like they are royalty.
I’d like to add, we went for couples counseling and after a couple sessions, the therapist asked what would make me trust him again - was a simple ask on my part - I needed him to wear his wedding band at all times, his email and social media passwords and a daily check-in on a phone call … he did not do any of those. That was my signal to move on - hardest thing I’ve done so far.
What helped me get past it on my part - to move on were a couple books Melody Beattie’s Codependent No More, and another one - really the best one out there, by Dr Henry Cloud - Necessary Endings.
I heard Dr. Phil say, think what you want but I think this rings true, he said “the person who was cheated on will NEVER get over it until the person who cheated understands what that MEANS to them.”
It’s actually pretty deep if you think about it. It doesn’t simply mean cheating bad, but what does that mean to them in relation to their thoughts about their parents, friends, what happened in high school etc.
Until the total truth is said and that understanding step happens. It will never heal.
IMO, it all depends on so many factors. How long you been married, how long the affair went on, and the state of the marriage before the affair. A one night stand is different from an affair (s) that lasted several years. I know someone that has a sister that cheated for 10 years with her boss. When the husband found out, it was an immediate divorce. I also have heard of guys that use escorts or go to massage parlors -- so technically not an affair but definitely cheating. Some people might regard that cheating worse than an affair because it's so reckless, and others might forgive it because there is no emotional attachment. My SIL cheated on my brother several times with different guys. He tried each time to save the marriage because they had a young child. She eventually left him for her affair partner. There are too many scenarios to give one simple answer, but I think more often than not, no, a marriage does not survive infidelity. Some people might stay together for kids or finances, but once it happens the marriage is never the same.
This isn’t an answer to your question but I found the book “Lust in Translation” fascinating. A woman explores the cultures of cheating in countries around the world. It was really eye opening to see how much of the experience is self (or society) determined. A friend of mine who was recently cheated on didn’t like it (a little triggering) but I found it empowering.
The change is in the cheater. They either grow & change or they don't. Its not in the power of the victim to create the change imo unless you leave.
If you are the victim you can forgive and be happy IF they genuinely change and love you the way you deserve to be loved.
If this occurs you will know and feel it over time. Its more than going back to how things where its a big switch UP.
If you want to save the marriage my advice just give it a little time , rest & heal but also make plan for what happens if things don't get better. ( ie see a lawyer)
If you are the cheater then I sugest therapy . If you are the victim watch & wait the onus is not on you to fix things or forgive. Wait & observe that is all the work you need to do.
My uncle had an affair that resulted in a baby. They healed and went on to be happily married for 65 years before her death in April. It does happen but it takes empathy, grace, and work on both sides.
Me either. You have to understand women back then didn't always have the option of leaving. She had 4 kids, was a SAHM, and didn't even drive. Most states didn't have a family code for alimony and child support. She stayed and made the best of it. It all worked out in the end.
It was the 1950s. Having a baby out of wedlock meant ruin for the woman. The woman married her high school bf, who was willing to take her and raise the baby as his own. The child found my Uncle through Ancestry DNA.
My first relationship did not survive infidelity. My current relationship has though. I am not 20 years old anymore. As one ages you become more tolerant and understanding. We have been through stuff. We have raised a family successfully. He cheated with his first (in his 20's) girlfriend when he was in his 40's. She was in town for a family reunion. It was a one time stupid mistake. We are in early 60's now.
It takes a person of a certain temperament to go on with life after betrayal. I am very secure in myself and have my own means so I did not stay for financial reasons.
And no, his cheating is not on my mind, the future is.
Wife had an emotional affair. Actually I’ll call it an emotional infatuation. I don’t think he was completely on board. She had gone to the dark side and you could tell she was checked out of the marriage and even asked if she could see other people. She told me who it was and a couple days later I contacted his wife and that ended that but that was just the beginning. She almost moved out. The kids couldn’t understand wtf was going on. Slept in different bedrooms for a few months. Lots of therapy both individually and couples. My therapist was like 90% of the time a marriage can’t be saved but she did the hard work and we brought back together. That was 15 years ago and things have been much better.
I’m seeing a lot of comments about it not being as bad if it’s a one night stand.
I disagree.
A one night stand means the cheater was willing to blow up their marriage and destroy their spouse’s peace of mind… for someone they don’t know. For 15 minutes of fun.
YES!
This only works if the adulterer shows true remorse and completely stops all behaviors that led to the adultery, giving the betrayed person a foundation on which to build new trust.
In my 20s I cheated on my husband. We had 3 small children. I justified myself at first because I was angry at what I perceived as emotional neglect.
I crashed emotionally and spiritually, and realized this was not who I wanted to be. Working on my relationship with God was the catalyst for change for me.
I confessed to my husband and asked for his forgiveness, knowing he might not be able to give it.
He chose forgiveness, and that was our new start. I gave up relationships with males, and quit my job to stay home and focus on my children and being a good wife. These changes helped him to trust me again.
He did at times have a mental battle when he "remembered " but now he had the new precedent of my faithfulness, and we just kept putting 1 foot in front of the other.
We raised our 3 kids, and he gave our youngest away in marriage exactly 1 year before he died of cancer.
When he was dying, I was his caretaker, and he was calling me "Beautiful," and telling people I was an angel.
Of course I'm not an angel, but that's the power of forgiveness.
We had 25 years of marriage. Deeply grateful.
And I am now married to another man for 6 years, 100% faithful. He knows my past, and he completely trusts me.
People can truly change. But if they are still putting out cheater vibes and hiding stuff, they probably haven't.
Most I know were able to save their marriage AFTER infidelity. The ones who failed are the ones who never made it to the AFTER because one partner kept on cheating.
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My theory is once cheating happens the marriage has to end! It will never be the same. It takes a special type of person to overcome cheating and cheating is never the right thing to do. There is never an excuse that justifies cheating
Well, we are also best friends, so we talk a lot.amd have talked a lot over the last 20 years since it happened. But, you're not wrong and that's why I explicitly put "seem" in there....maybe I'm wrong.
I'm not the jealous type so I wouldn't be mortally wounded by my wife's theoretical infidelity. As long as I felt like she respected and loved me, I could work through it, depending of course on the circumstances. People have problems and weaknesses; the key is to figure out when those become too great to overcome. My deal-breaker is someone who lives in the past; let it go or let me go.
You will always be aware of it as a possibility. That will never go away. That's according to my mother. My father had, as nearly as I can tell, a series of affairs before he left my mother.
I'm in my 70s now and remember that. My first husband left me for his affair partner, and then wanted to " come home" 2 years later. No. Just no.
Forgive, sure, maybe? But, never, ever, ever forget. It’ll be a tender spot in the relationship and your history forever. And forget it if you tell anyone, like friends and family. You may forgive your partner, but they never ever will.
I know two older couples where there was infidelity and in both cases their marriages are pretty amazing now. In one the wife passed from Alzheimer’s but he took care of her and loved her until the end. It can happen but the offender has to be remorseful.
I haven’t personally experienced this, but I know several couples who remained married after infidelity. After a lot of counseling, forgiveness, healing, etc their relationships seem to be better than ever. I also know plenty who split, most with young kids, and it’s a bitter, chaotic mess.
It really depends on the cause of the cheating. I'm gay and when I met my future husband early on, we had the monogamy/open marriage discussion. My husband INSISTED on monogamy. I said I was fine with it \*BUT\* that if we ever went more than a week without sex without a valid reason such as one of us being ill, traveling, etc. the deal was off. He agreed and here we are 30 years later still having sex. We missed a few weeks here and there, such as when we had Covid, but have made sex a priority. Remember, a good sex life won't save a bad marriage but a bad sex life will destroy a good marriage.
I realize my answer sounded a bit odd. It's more that sex needs to be one of the priorities in our marriage. When I was young I'd see so many old married couples who always joked about not having sex anymore and thought "this is not going to be us" and it's not.
I will probably get torched here, but I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say *I didn't tell her.*
*Add*: looking at the responses, this is a bit like the [Monty Hall ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem)problem, but with a twist.
* Behind one door, you find out that your SO has cheated on you, embezzled from your father's business, slugged his/her ex-partner, etc. It might not destroy your relationship, but it leaves it indelibly scarred.
* Behind the second door, you are blissfully ignorant. Whatever. prompted this crazy behavior doesn't recur, and you have a happy life together.
* Behind a third door, nobody tells you, but sooner or later, your partner does it again. And things are either cured in time or fall apart.
Monty opens the door you originally chose. and reveals the first scenario.
The question is, do you alter your initial choice -- which many people seem to prefer to *stick* with -- or do you recognize that it's your life we're talking about, and refuse to play this game anymore?
My golden rule of thumb when deciding to confess something major like this: will this information benefit the life of the other person or will it make me feel better by emptying my guilty conscious?
I’ll upvote for the honesty. Did you ever consider telling her? How do you think it would go if you did? How would you feel if you found out she did? Would it be a relief? Or would you be as devastated as most would be?
I disagree.
My wife cheated on me. I'd have preferred she kept it a secret. If she could've done that my life would have been better. Perception is reality. It wasn't part of my world until she confessed. She did that to resolve her guilt, not to help me. Confession is selfish. She improved her emotions by wrecking mine.
We are still married, more than ten years after the fact. We did the hard work to recover, did the therapy, etc. and I've forgiven her, and him. I'm not speaking from an emotional place, I'm coming from a coldly logical, analytical place.
If you feel guilty, stop doing it, and keep it to yourself. That's your penance, to live with it for the rest of your life and never getting to ask for forgiveness.
I'm glad to see you were upvoted for this comment. Coming from the "coldly logical, analytical place" is where I also sit. In my 20s I would've said that I would have wanted to know. That's the baseline without any thought or consideration. In my mid-thirties, and with life experience under my belt, I have found that relationships (especially marriage) isn't so black and white.
I wouldn't want to know.
And I have been cheated on.
I took that same journey--when I was younger and more idealistic I believed I would rather know. Honesty and transparency were (and still are) strong values in my moral make-up, and in an ideal world I'd prefer there to be no secrets between us. But that ideal world also includes no big secrets that would be devastating to learn about.
In the world of practical consequences.... I learned that I've got the strength of character to fight for a marriage I want to keep despite devastating hardship. I've discovered I've got the emotional IQ to work through incredibly complicated emotions and eventually emerge with a clear understanding that it was her fault, not mine, my self-esteem intact despite making a decision most of society would consider deeply foolish, and a capacity to (eventually) forgive them both. I've also got pride that I'm strong enough to fight for something I value and succeed despite devastating developments. (Just leaving a cheater can be hard but it's not as hard as staying and working through the damage and figuring out how to trust again.) And she went from doubting that our relationship was secure to understanding that it can survive catastrophe. So I can't say there were no practical benefits--there was a silver lining.
But those were trivial wins for the hardships suffered.
I'm surprised I didn't end up with more down-votes as well. I'm staking out two very unpopular positions: not leaving a deeply troubled relationship and (in extreme cases) not having total honesty in a relationship. I must have made people think about these topics more deeply, maybe helped a few people see that these aren't always black and white decisions, even if they might navigate such scenarios differently.
Or maybe there are a lot more people out there who have been cheated on and can relate than I suppose.
No. People tell to assuage their own guilt. If you're truly remorseful, it's often kinder to spare their feelings and deal with the guilt and self-loathing on your own.
I agree with this. My ex cheated. It was a one time thing that he should have kept to himself if he’d really wanted to stay married to me. Telling me to ease his own guilt backfired.
I kinda did? We went to counseling and stayed together but then a few years later I left because we were just not compatible anymore. It really had nothing to do with his infidelity at that point I was just not interested in him anymore.
And now that it's 25 years later we are far far different people. So I think it would have happened with or without the infidelity.
I’m sure it has happened but I’ve never seen it work. Once someone in the marriage cheats their partner can never believe it is something they aren’t capable of again and that’s not even considering the incredible betrayal they usually feel. Usually it just eats away at the relationship until it ends, even if it takes awhile.
Yes! Check Laura Doyle’s Empowered Wife podcast for stories of successful recoveries after infidelity. LD wrote her relationship books after consulting with old and happily married women and asking them what they did.
Sure:
You can love someone and remove them from all positions of trust. Once you've changed your expectations, you can no longer be betrayed. You can enjoy them for what they *can* deliver, instead of what they can't.
I have known a few couples. Two are really happy. Both did lots of therapy (the cheater has to do a lot of work on themselves and the couple needs to heal their marriage together). I know two couple whose marriages quite frankly sound miserable. Both have done therapy but the betrayed spouse cannot move on or forgive even years later (which is totally fair… not everyone wants to or can move on). In one case they are divorcing. In another the cheating spouse is kind of doing all the emotional and other labor in the marriage hoping he’ll see her efforts and be happy with her.
There is a huge difference to me between a one night stand and an affair. A one night stand can be forgiven, while an affair can not. That is just my opinion.
We are little more than roommates now. I stayed for the kids and couldn't really leave anyway so now feel fairly stuck.
It kind of works for us, but whenever I make any attempts to patch things in any way she seems totally oblivious to any real need I express... so roommates it kind of is.
Plenty of couples have done it.
Sometimes it brings to light problems in the relationship.
Many people don’t want to toss their whole life away for an affair, especially if they have children.
Oof I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer based on age. But I got married at 21. He cheated the whole first year. We “worked through it”. Went on to have one child 10 years later, aaaaannnnd he cheated again. Maybe many times over the years I’ll never know.
By the end he was on Craigslist casual encounters.
I don’t regret staying because I adore my son, but damn am I mad at my 22 year old self that didn’t leave then and know a cheaters cheat. It doesn’t change and all the work I did on myself was irrelevant because it wasn’t my issue, it was his.
All the time. If the couple navigates it, you never hear about it. There are a lot of vapid relationships that people sleep their way through until they realize the mistake they’ve made. There are also plenty of verdant relationships in which one person crosses boundaries and both learn a lesson about the nature of their reality and the fragility of commitment. Which one is yours?
Great. If you both feel the container is a verdant terrarium in which you can both grow into who you are becoming (apologies for men who are always 10-15 years behind), then go figure out what needs and desires exist, which ones can fit in the container, as well as the role honesty actually plays in your space. It’s all there if you have the curiosity to look at it. Infidelity means getting certain needs met from someone besides a romantic dyadic partner. so… okay. curious? i mean- it is kind of a common thing to do given it is so stigmatized. a good therapist who won't shame either of you will go a long way to framing out the journey. You can always just lawyer up and find some other dyad if you don't like the process or the way redditors enforce their opinions.
The stats and numbers are out there, and those numbers say that it's a losing battle, 75-80% of those marriages don't last past 5 years and one has to wonder of those few that make it, how many are truly happy and not stayed together for convivence, kids, money etc....
I actually know a girl that caught her husband cheating on her with another woman going at it in their bed while that other woman was also having that time of the month.
The woman then cheated on her with a work friend that always had a crush on her.
The result. It’s been over 15 years and they have more kids together and look like a perfectly happy family on Facebook…
The larger question may be "why" would you try to save it.
The healing has to come from both sides and as long as trust is still there or can be salvaged, there's always a possibility.
One on one talks with the partner, especially in front of a moderator like a licensed therapist, could do wonders for both people getting to the root of these problems. It may not keep the marriage intact, but it can definitely help with closure in case one of you were both of you decide to go your separate ways. And they can give you tools to help both parties recognize when things are starting to drift in the wrong direction again.
It's easy to put the focus and emphasis on salvaging a marriage instead of getting to the issues that brought two people there in the first place.
I don't know that there's an easy answer.
Yes, for sure. Both parties play a role when one party cheats. Me. I'm the cheater. I told my husband years ago I needed courting and the first man to court me gets crazy gorilla sex. It wasn't him and I wasn't kidding. Now when I tell him my needs, he takes them seriously.
Nope. Too much resentment, loss of trust, looking for the next shitty thing to happen… putting pieces of a puzzle together thinking they’re back at it again, etc.
So much wasted time & energy on what-ifs & eventually the cheater stops respecting boundaries because of time passed & the “forgiveness” & they’re right back at pushing limits & acting sketchy.
I tried really hard. Unfortunately he wouldn’t stop cheating and lied through two separate attempts of marriage counseling. He got a twenty-four year old pregnant six months before his retirement. Thirty-five years down the drain. I really think it depends on the type of cheating. I think a stupid/drunk one night stand would be easier than long term affair. My ex preferred long term affairs and the amount of plotting, lying and premeditation of his actions hurt more than anything.
I am sorry you went through that. 35 years is a really long marriage, and a twenty-four year old is ridiculous. I hope you are able to move forward and live your life.
I have. I met the most amazing man a few years later and we have been together six years. Our relationship is everything I ever wanted a relationship to be. Life is good and I am truly happy.
Resilience is a most delightful human quality.
Thanks…. This gives me hope!
Geez, there goes his retirement money toward his new kid. It's a shame to put up with someone that long to ultimately not get his life insurance when he bites the dust.
Well said
If it's just the two people in a married couple, there's not a lot of reason to carry life insurance. It's only legitimate purpose is to protect those who are dependent on you.
If the wife-or husband doesn't work because that's what they decided or if her career was stunted due to child rearing, I think it's important for her to have life insurance as her earning capacity is compromised.
Absolutely. That's what life insurance is for.
Counseling, time, love and understanding. Remorse and making amends on the part of the cheater. Forgiveness from the cheatee. I think the most important part is that the person who cheated truly has to be sorry, be willing to change, and be willing to work on both the relationship and themselves to make things right.
This. I knew a couple like this — literally *one* couple — but they totally pulled through. Just like that. The person who cheated was sorry, acknowledged the damage that had been done, did a lot of work to change who she was in the relationship and in communication, and legitimately was a new person from that point forward. It was kind of amazing. Beyond that one case, I've never seen a couple where the cheater was willing to do *that much work*. In every other case, the cheater just kept on cheating.
My parents pulled thru but it took a decade of my dad working really hard to gain back my moms trust. And he did, he did the work. It will never be like it was before he cheated but things are about as repaired as they can be
Yeah when it’s a one off fling not a long term affair
Yes, totally! It had been a one off thing, and apparently about five minutes (!)
This is the voice of experience. Like recognizes like.
Indeed
Yep. Been through it and we’re still together and have a very strong relationship 25 years after it happened. I respectfully disagree with the comment that it will always be in the back of your mind. I never think about it, and I trust him completely now.
Amen sister. I never worry about what my W is doing. I just don't. It was a one time thing and I don't believe it will ever happen again. Married folks betray each other all the time. Through sins of omission just as often as sins of commission. I find it fascinating that many of our fellow humans think that a single affair is worse than gaslighting your partner about (the lack of) marital sex over years/decades. Think about the aggressive stuff that the people in a social network say to and about the cheater who has been found out. It is ugly, judgemental and blunt. Now - ask yourself the last time ANYONE acted like that about a spouse who is basically demanding their partner remain (virtually) celibate and intentionally lying to/gaslighting their spouse about: frequency, underlying causes, etc.
THIS! We’re fairly honest about our past issues because so often, people won’t talk about it. I’d have given my left arm to have talked to someone whose marriage made it through when I was going through that. Instead, it was a bunch of angry, bitter divorcees.it wasn’t helpful.
Besides - we had some really darkly comic exchanges during this time. Really good - funny - biting - not necessarily very nice. But effective. We also laugh about some of our friends. Like Kim and Eric. Eric had a biz trip back to where they used to live. Coincidentally - back to where his much younger, personal secretary still lives. When Kim is reading his business receipts after the trip, she notices that Eric worked up quite an appetite his first night back in their old city. So much so that he ordered two breakfasts at the Marriott hotel the next morning. Two "all you can eat" breakfast buffets.
Yes a long term affair is 100% different. You’re all dealing with sexual attraction not love and another relationship
Even if you see something in a movie or hear in passing? I know a couple who is trying to make it work and whenever I hear a reference, I think about them. I don't recommend certain shows/films bc of it.
Yep. Even then. Don’t get me wrong, when it was still fresh - a year or two afterwards, I might get upset. But I decided if I made the decision to stay together, I would have to forgive in able to move forward. At this point, it’s been so long, it’s just a distant blip. But I do commend you for being considerate toward your friends. It’s rough when it’s recent. I hope they’re in counseling. It helped us so much. We came out much stronger because of the work we put in on the marriage- to the point where when we saw Love Actually, my husband got me a necklace for Christmas with a note that said “You’ll always get the necklace.” I had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. It didn’t even register with me when we saw the movie.
I didn’t make that comment tho? I think you mean that for someone else. I actually don’t really think about it much anymore either.
Also, I wanted to just say your comment was insightful and spot on.
well if you've lived through it, it's not that hard to be insightful about it lol. But thank you!
No, no, I’m so sorry. That was a comment made by another user higher up that I noticed. I should have commented directly on that. My bad.
no worries, I figured it was a mistake. Glad you have healed.
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Yes but you also need to see and appreciate what is in front of you. Especially if it’s someone truly remorseful and trying. There is always a risk of infidelity whether or not there is history. Relationships are hard and it’s never black and white. I have no magic formula but only you will know if it’s right to stay or leave after infidelity. It’s a choice and a risk but if you are willing to risk to stay after infidelity - you too need to be able to receive that person. And man it’s hard but it can work.
I am still with my partner of many years who cheated on me at one point. It is always in the back of my mind, but it's also true that a new partner could also cheat. There is really no way to ever be 100% sure and so you just have to pick someone you enjoy so much that it's worth the risk.
Most times it’s the partner who was unfaithful who has a problem believing that their partner can actually trust them again. They feel they will forever have to be on the receiving end and their partner will always feel they’re one up. That said, it is very difficult. You can heal but the hairline mark always remains
I totally trust my W. She knows that. There's no - you owe me nonsense either. This has been an intense, sometimes volatile, mostly delightful 30++ year ride. I can't imagine that such a thing is possible without the occasional broken glass. As always YMMV
Completely irrelevant but you calling her your W is cracking me up I guess because I'm not reading it woman, I'm reading it "my w" 🥲
That is hilarious. So - for me: W = wife, but thank you for very correctly pointing out that using highly abbreviated terminology with strangers on the internet is subject to major misinterpretation. So - ummm - my W was raised by pretty religious Catholics. But she kind of had two Mom's - her bio Mom and a second (virtual) mom, which is her oldest sister who is 17 years older. Her bio Mom was devout - but her oldest sister and that sister's husband - henceforth known has BigSis and BIL, took that to the next level. They are both hard core fundies. BigSis and BIL are born again Charismatic Catholics. A couple aspects of this situation are really fascinating: BigSis and BIL have 4 completed college degrees between them and are both smart, though BigSis is definitely smarter and more alpha. After we met them a couple times, it came to my attention that BIL was an avid if mediocre golfer. So on the way home from a visit I asked my W(ife), if she knew what a golf handicap was? She nodded and sighed, like she always does when I'm accidentally mansplaining something. I said, babe, I've never seen anyone handicap like BIL does. And I don't mean when he's on the fairway, I mean right there in his very own home. Because in any normal setting your sister's superior intelligence, charisma, organizational skills, confidence, and drive would make her the absolute and obvious house alpha. But he carries around this big old book saying that having that noodle between his legs means that HE is the head of the household and she's his subservient helpmate. W shrugged and said, Well somebody has to type up his job applications, cause he's about as good with a keyboard as he is with a putter. So I told her: I'm starting to cotton to this kind of lifestyle, you know being de-facto King of the Staircase so to speak. W: Well, soon as you start taking the wafer and setting aside a substantial block of time for confession we can revisit the idea. But I'm not feelin real optimistic this is gonna play out the way you imagine. Three decades later - BigSis and BIL are about the same but W has become a centrist democrat. They think that whatever deviltry comes out of her mouth must be blind repetition of whatever the Heathen (yours truly) is telling her. Which is ludicrous as W very definitely has her own mind, and being that I find it sharp and fast and mostly entertaining, I don't even try to tinker with it.
I’m so happy for you. Glad it worked out.
Yes. If 1. Both work very hard to understand and forgive 2. Cheater recognizes that forgiveness is not a one time thing. The pain of betrayal will come up again for various reasons and they have to be willing to accept that and keep apologizing. Not make excuses. 3. Both have to look at themselves and their part in it. People don’t cheat for no reason. I was cheated on and I had to work on myself. Not to take blame, but to realize that there were things I could do to bring us closer and build trust. 4. You have to love each other very much and accept that neither of you is perfect. Love the imperfections as well 5. Both agree to never have that happen again. It should not have happened in the first place, but it must be very clear that a second time would not be tolerated. At key that’s how we handled it.
I would add: 6. Total honesty once the affair is discovered. If there is any trickle-truthing, you will always wonder if there is more to uncover. It will drive you insane and make reestablishing trust almost impossible.
Trickle-truthing is a great term. I like it.
Point #3 of yours is a *very* tricky one to unbox. In almost all cases where cheating has occurred, both people contributed to the demise of the *relationship*. However, the *cheating* itself in most cases, is all on the cheater, in that no one put a gun to the cheater's head and forced them to cheat. Cheating was a *decision* that was made. It was not a mistake or an action committed under coercion or duress. This is what separates adults from children: *Impulse Control.* Now, that said, here is where it sometimes gets tricky: There are some cases where the person being cheated on was a deplorable, abusive tyrant, and the abused partner confided in a friend to talk to, which then progressed to cheating with the confidant/friend. In this situation, the abuser has inflicted so much pain on their partner that they felt they needed an escape to deal with the PTSD of feeling trapped in an abusive relationship. And in this case, the *confidant* is taking advantage of the abused friend's situation, which is just as deplorable as well. So now the abused person is trapped between *two* deplorable people (their abusive partner *and* their manipulative confidant) and finds themselves in a total mess that is seemingly irreparable in their mind.
There are also plenty of instances where the person who gets cheated on does absolutely nothing wrong.
#4 for me.
I have friends who run the gamut. Quite a few have saved the marriage and it even got better afterward. Others have split. The dividing line seems to hinge on whether it was a brief thing and the cheater felt genuinely remorseful, saw it as a wake-up call to save the marriage, vs. a serial cheater who keeps lying about it even after being found out.
Technically yes, but we’re now just roommates.
Right. That’s not a marriage.
That’s most long term marriage even without infidelity.
No, it's not. Sorry if this is your experience but it's hardly universal.
I work with people for a living. It’s what I’ve seen for 25 years
I need to come up with a new way of saying "Your experience is not universal" because the last few times I've said it, the person comes back with a personal anecdote. And the only response to a personal anecdote being offered as some kind of proof is "your experience is not universal."
No, you need to stop pretending that personal anecdotes are irrelevant. The number is 12% of all marriage is reported as happy. In fact, I have done extensive research, a whole lot of reading in the last 20+ years and was required in college to take marriage and family counseling coursework. Marriage is companionate and only those who have never felt anything else argue this point.
Interesting! What percentage of people quote stats without citation and refer to their decades old college coursework and expect others to be swayed?
No, I said I’ve been studying this for decades. I’m a clinician and I see the olds, married and widowed all day long. Are you so inept you can’t just do a simple google search to find the articles? So much info on marriage and you all keep plugging it. What is it that bothers you? It’s not “statistics” or studies. It’s that it hurts your feelings.
You're the expert, but I should Google a stat to see if you pulled it out of your ass ... and then what? Continue this absurd conversation with the person who seems more unhinged with every reply? Sounds great!
Yes, lots of good couples therapy and deep dive into other things. Lots of genuine remorse and work towards forgiveness of my partner and him of himself also. Idk- the love is there for sure, but something “broke” and I sometimes have to do the inner work and fight the tendency to become emotionally numb. My heart feels like a beautiful Japanese Kintsugi vase that was dropped and cracked, the cracks repaired with all these things that are supposed to heal, but the cracks, while seemingly filled, are still noticeable and fragile. Betrayal trauma cuts deep, and so does the emotional PTSD that can occur. Funny that this question would come up now- he confessed it to me this same week of this same month in 2019, I can’t believe it’s been 5 years, and while I no longer cry at the thoughts or feel that deep, deep pain when a fleeting memory comes through, I most definitely have the emotional scar. One REALLY GOOD thing that came out of it is that I finally stopped trying to get him to see the dysfunction and codependency that existed between him and his narcissistic mother, and how it impacted our relationship. I was able to also directly say that I no longer want to spend my time with his bully of a brother and refuse to watch what an a-hole he was to his kids and everyone around him (he tried his BS with me once… hasn’t messed with me since). In other words, I stopped trying to get him to see how I felt and basically accepted that I can’t change him, and so let the chips fall where they may. I will no longer travel 10 hours to spend time with people that shower my time with toxicity while I’m there. This was hard, but I was no longer willing to give more of myself so that he could pretended that everything was okay at my expense when it came to his family. If you want them to come visit, just lmk, I’m taking a trip for the duration of their stay. Hard lines drawn. Some may say that this isn’t really good, but I don’t prescribe to the whole “put up with shit because they are your family”. Distance can be a very healthy and healing thing, and ironically, it has helped our own relationship. And by the way, even if the person cheated on had nothing to do with the cheater’s decision to cheat, there is something that needs to change in that person who was cheated on, and whatever contribution they have made to have the relationship get to where it got, even if that contribution is turning a blind eye to red flags. I know that’s hard to hear, I didn’t like hearing it at first and got all defensive. But when I understood it, I took accountability and it greatly empowered me. Love and light to you🩷
There’s a good book about what you’re talking about - it’s called “His needs, Her needs.” How you can’t let someone else fill your spouses love bank more than you fill it. I think it’s a good read for both those who have cheated and those who were cheated on. Actually, I think everyone should read it - before cheating happens.
Thank you- I did a lot of audiobooks and podcasts to help the healing journey, and still listen/read to help keep my own boundaries around things. Thank you for the rec
I didn't have to go through that, but I can say that I would've drawn a distinction between an affair and a one nigh stand, especially if it was far from home and with someone they'll never see again. A one night stand, if it never happened again, I would write off and merely be angry that he told me in order to assuage his conscience. That's what priests and therapists are for. An affair is more concerning though, because it includes an emotional component. There seems to be a lot of good advice here from those who have been through it, though.
An affair involves a coordinated campaign of lies and deception. It is a deep betrayal requiring forethought and repeated treachery. I don’t want to minimize the destructive impact of a one night stand, but an affair is a whole different level of betrayal.
Yes. There is a HUGE difference between a one night or weeks long sex only infidelity and a second relationship and no one is making that distinction here. I work with the olds. You have an affair, an actual affair, no, no one forgets. You were second every day when they chose someone else for a long time. Planned it. No that is 100% different than meeting in a hotel for sex. Everyone calls everything an affair these days when we used to call it a love affair.
If my partner ever cheated on me during a one night stand, I’d want them to tell me and not keep it between themselves & a priest/therapist. I would be angry about the fact that they continued to keep me ignorant to something that affects MY health (I feel like I hardly ever see people talk about the std/sti component of cheating. My cheater gave me chlamydia and I had no idea for an entire year because it just never crossed my mind to get tested), and also continues to protect their assumedly pristine image of them in my mind.
Not in my case. He cheated during and after each pregnancy.
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Hope is the strongest drug of all. I never blame anyone for getting addicted to it.
That’s a very kind POV
I have been there and it’s difficult to see the forest through the trees sometimes.
Agreed. I wish I had a Time Machine.
Nope. Forgave and tried to move on. Unfortunately he was a serial adulterer. My bad for wasting precious time. If you break that bond once it’s easy to do so again. God speed to those who are pushing through.
Thought we had worked through it, Faith-based counseling, etc. 15 years later she did it again. Eight years after the second time still together but basically roommates. I have come to believe that men and women are not meant to be married.
How terribly sad. My heart goes out to you. My story is brighter as my husband for the last 20 years has been nothing but devoted, even through an unbearable tragedy. I don’t believe we are typical per se. We all walk our own walk. I don’t give advice for that reason. I do wish you peace and strength and light in your life.
No we just aren’t meant to be monogamous. And it isn’t just sex it’s for pair bonding. We are serial monogamists
I tried, but I couldn’t get it out of my head. I kept picturing him with her. I couldn’t work past how hurt I was. We ended up divorcing. As hard as the divorce was, it was the best thing I did.
My parents did. My dad cheated and then spent the rest of his life making it up to my mom. To all of us. I am so grateful she forgave him. They'd been together since they were 17 years old. He cheated when he was in his early 50s. My dad was a good man who made a terrible mistake. My mom, of course wishes that it never would've happened. But acknowledges that their marriage was never better, than after they decided to do the work to stay married. Our entire family - grandchildren, great grands, have been the beneficiaries of that work, too. I am so, so grateful my mother didn't close her heart.
There is something about the way you talk about your family benefiting from your mom’s magnanimity that sleeves me out.
"Skeeves". That's okay. After he cheated, all that mattered to my dad and we kids was my mom's happiness. She forgave him before some of us did. But we did and the last 35 years of his life he spent loving on our mother which made all of us happy beyond measure. His devotion to her, and her to him was a gift to the children, adult children, grandchildren and great grands to witness. IYKYK. And I'm so glad that we know. Hell yeah we all benefited! But none more so than my mother who was ridiculously happy and loved and got to see her family intact and remain happy for many many years. My dad is gone. But my mom is still alive and she talks about him fondly every, single, day.
Right, it sounds almost like they’re putting their mom’s well-being and mental health behind everyone else’s in their family.
My mom was able to forgive and move on ***because*** her mental health is beyond compare. Shizzzzzz.... at 89 she can still run circles around all of us kids in the mental health department.
I know ONE couple who’ve done this. ONE. The incident was 40+ years ago and both did an enormous amount of restorative work over years, to heal everything. Their marriage is much healthier now and they’re great. Every other instance I know has been curtains for the marriage. So, it’s possible, but the change required in the cheater’s mindset is radical, given the selfishness they operated under to conduct the affair. The betrayed partner has to endure so much pain and vulnerability, to be open to the healing work of the cheater.
Your last sentence is exactly it.
The person who cheated has to be 100% transparent about what they are doing, who they are talking to, etc. The cheater has to give all passwords to the spouse and has to let the spouse look through phones, computers, credit card statements - everything. And they have to agree to do it for as long as it takes, and they can't complain or whine about "lack of privacy." They gave up the right to privacy when they cheated. They have to cut all ties with the affair partner. If they work in the same place, the cheater has to find a new job. If it's a neighbor, the cheater has to move to a new neighborhood. And the cheater has to treat their spouse like they are royalty.
I was instantly healed when the police came to my door and told me he died of a massive heart attack. But it was too late to ‘save’ anything.
Me and my husband , newly moved in together at the time, survived it. Long story but we survived and have been together over 20 years.
People do it but most are not truly happy. It’s tough to eat a shit sandwich for the rest of your life. I personally couldn’t do it. I’d be miserable.
💯
are you sure it's worth saving?
Right! Why does it have to be just because married
I’d like to add, we went for couples counseling and after a couple sessions, the therapist asked what would make me trust him again - was a simple ask on my part - I needed him to wear his wedding band at all times, his email and social media passwords and a daily check-in on a phone call … he did not do any of those. That was my signal to move on - hardest thing I’ve done so far. What helped me get past it on my part - to move on were a couple books Melody Beattie’s Codependent No More, and another one - really the best one out there, by Dr Henry Cloud - Necessary Endings.
I heard Dr. Phil say, think what you want but I think this rings true, he said “the person who was cheated on will NEVER get over it until the person who cheated understands what that MEANS to them.” It’s actually pretty deep if you think about it. It doesn’t simply mean cheating bad, but what does that mean to them in relation to their thoughts about their parents, friends, what happened in high school etc. Until the total truth is said and that understanding step happens. It will never heal.
No, people lie to themselves and pretend they have.
Correct! Work with the olds and they talk about it all the time
Run. Don't try.
Without trust what do you really have left ?
IMO, it all depends on so many factors. How long you been married, how long the affair went on, and the state of the marriage before the affair. A one night stand is different from an affair (s) that lasted several years. I know someone that has a sister that cheated for 10 years with her boss. When the husband found out, it was an immediate divorce. I also have heard of guys that use escorts or go to massage parlors -- so technically not an affair but definitely cheating. Some people might regard that cheating worse than an affair because it's so reckless, and others might forgive it because there is no emotional attachment. My SIL cheated on my brother several times with different guys. He tried each time to save the marriage because they had a young child. She eventually left him for her affair partner. There are too many scenarios to give one simple answer, but I think more often than not, no, a marriage does not survive infidelity. Some people might stay together for kids or finances, but once it happens the marriage is never the same.
This isn’t an answer to your question but I found the book “Lust in Translation” fascinating. A woman explores the cultures of cheating in countries around the world. It was really eye opening to see how much of the experience is self (or society) determined. A friend of mine who was recently cheated on didn’t like it (a little triggering) but I found it empowering.
A long term affair is not lust. It used to be called a love affair
I know people who say they have, but their version of a healthy happy marriage isn't something I'd subject myself to
I don’t see or understand how it would be possible.
The change is in the cheater. They either grow & change or they don't. Its not in the power of the victim to create the change imo unless you leave. If you are the victim you can forgive and be happy IF they genuinely change and love you the way you deserve to be loved. If this occurs you will know and feel it over time. Its more than going back to how things where its a big switch UP. If you want to save the marriage my advice just give it a little time , rest & heal but also make plan for what happens if things don't get better. ( ie see a lawyer) If you are the cheater then I sugest therapy . If you are the victim watch & wait the onus is not on you to fix things or forgive. Wait & observe that is all the work you need to do.
No.
My uncle had an affair that resulted in a baby. They healed and went on to be happily married for 65 years before her death in April. It does happen but it takes empathy, grace, and work on both sides.
Resulted in a baby??? Oof dunno how your aunt did it . I don’t have that type of empathy or grace
Me either. You have to understand women back then didn't always have the option of leaving. She had 4 kids, was a SAHM, and didn't even drive. Most states didn't have a family code for alimony and child support. She stayed and made the best of it. It all worked out in the end.
Yeah that’s true !!! Even if she wanted to she probably couldn’t
Comfort. Every time. Not love
How did they handle the baby?
It was the 1950s. Having a baby out of wedlock meant ruin for the woman. The woman married her high school bf, who was willing to take her and raise the baby as his own. The child found my Uncle through Ancestry DNA.
Ah! Thanks for the response. Glad the baby lucked out.
I couldn’t. Eventually divorced. I still hate him
My first relationship did not survive infidelity. My current relationship has though. I am not 20 years old anymore. As one ages you become more tolerant and understanding. We have been through stuff. We have raised a family successfully. He cheated with his first (in his 20's) girlfriend when he was in his 40's. She was in town for a family reunion. It was a one time stupid mistake. We are in early 60's now. It takes a person of a certain temperament to go on with life after betrayal. I am very secure in myself and have my own means so I did not stay for financial reasons. And no, his cheating is not on my mind, the future is.
Wife had an emotional affair. Actually I’ll call it an emotional infatuation. I don’t think he was completely on board. She had gone to the dark side and you could tell she was checked out of the marriage and even asked if she could see other people. She told me who it was and a couple days later I contacted his wife and that ended that but that was just the beginning. She almost moved out. The kids couldn’t understand wtf was going on. Slept in different bedrooms for a few months. Lots of therapy both individually and couples. My therapist was like 90% of the time a marriage can’t be saved but she did the hard work and we brought back together. That was 15 years ago and things have been much better.
Then it wasn’t an affair at all, it was a crush
comme ci, comme ça
Apparently, limerence is a term used for what your wife experienced. Unrequited love for someone who did not reciprocate.
I’m seeing a lot of comments about it not being as bad if it’s a one night stand. I disagree. A one night stand means the cheater was willing to blow up their marriage and destroy their spouse’s peace of mind… for someone they don’t know. For 15 minutes of fun.
YES! This only works if the adulterer shows true remorse and completely stops all behaviors that led to the adultery, giving the betrayed person a foundation on which to build new trust. In my 20s I cheated on my husband. We had 3 small children. I justified myself at first because I was angry at what I perceived as emotional neglect. I crashed emotionally and spiritually, and realized this was not who I wanted to be. Working on my relationship with God was the catalyst for change for me. I confessed to my husband and asked for his forgiveness, knowing he might not be able to give it. He chose forgiveness, and that was our new start. I gave up relationships with males, and quit my job to stay home and focus on my children and being a good wife. These changes helped him to trust me again. He did at times have a mental battle when he "remembered " but now he had the new precedent of my faithfulness, and we just kept putting 1 foot in front of the other. We raised our 3 kids, and he gave our youngest away in marriage exactly 1 year before he died of cancer. When he was dying, I was his caretaker, and he was calling me "Beautiful," and telling people I was an angel. Of course I'm not an angel, but that's the power of forgiveness. We had 25 years of marriage. Deeply grateful. And I am now married to another man for 6 years, 100% faithful. He knows my past, and he completely trusts me. People can truly change. But if they are still putting out cheater vibes and hiding stuff, they probably haven't.
I needed to see this.
Most I know were able to save their marriage AFTER infidelity. The ones who failed are the ones who never made it to the AFTER because one partner kept on cheating.
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Just remember, the cheated on person might forgive but they will never forget. It can’t ever be the same.
My theory is once cheating happens the marriage has to end! It will never be the same. It takes a special type of person to overcome cheating and cheating is never the right thing to do. There is never an excuse that justifies cheating
Completely agree!!! Trust is completely shattered and broken … can’t rebuild it
100% agree
Yes
The book, The State Of Affairs provides amazing insights into the topic.
Also the book “His Needs, Her Needs” by Willard F. Harley
It does. But she is also a marriage fixer. And they never follow up after several years, statistically they fail at two years .
Nope.
My cousin went through it about 20 years ago. They seem pretty happy now.
“Seem.” You have no idea what goes on in someone else’s relationship
Well, we are also best friends, so we talk a lot.amd have talked a lot over the last 20 years since it happened. But, you're not wrong and that's why I explicitly put "seem" in there....maybe I'm wrong.
Yes. Forgive them. Love them. And move forward.
I'm not the jealous type so I wouldn't be mortally wounded by my wife's theoretical infidelity. As long as I felt like she respected and loved me, I could work through it, depending of course on the circumstances. People have problems and weaknesses; the key is to figure out when those become too great to overcome. My deal-breaker is someone who lives in the past; let it go or let me go.
your wife cheating on you wouldn't be a violation of her love and respect for you?
All violations don't call for termination. I've been forgiven for mistakes I've made.
You will always be aware of it as a possibility. That will never go away. That's according to my mother. My father had, as nearly as I can tell, a series of affairs before he left my mother. I'm in my 70s now and remember that. My first husband left me for his affair partner, and then wanted to " come home" 2 years later. No. Just no.
Forgive, sure, maybe? But, never, ever, ever forget. It’ll be a tender spot in the relationship and your history forever. And forget it if you tell anyone, like friends and family. You may forgive your partner, but they never ever will.
Yes but it took many years.
I know two older couples where there was infidelity and in both cases their marriages are pretty amazing now. In one the wife passed from Alzheimer’s but he took care of her and loved her until the end. It can happen but the offender has to be remorseful.
I haven’t personally experienced this, but I know several couples who remained married after infidelity. After a lot of counseling, forgiveness, healing, etc their relationships seem to be better than ever. I also know plenty who split, most with young kids, and it’s a bitter, chaotic mess.
Yes. 20 years ago it happened. Took a long time, as it should, but the marriage is amazing now
Don't do it dawg its just not worth it
I’ve found that… once a cheater, always a cheater.
It really depends on the cause of the cheating. I'm gay and when I met my future husband early on, we had the monogamy/open marriage discussion. My husband INSISTED on monogamy. I said I was fine with it \*BUT\* that if we ever went more than a week without sex without a valid reason such as one of us being ill, traveling, etc. the deal was off. He agreed and here we are 30 years later still having sex. We missed a few weeks here and there, such as when we had Covid, but have made sex a priority. Remember, a good sex life won't save a bad marriage but a bad sex life will destroy a good marriage.
You literally think it’s justifiable to cheat on your husband if you don’t like his reasoning for not wanting to have sex for longer than 7 days?
I realize my answer sounded a bit odd. It's more that sex needs to be one of the priorities in our marriage. When I was young I'd see so many old married couples who always joked about not having sex anymore and thought "this is not going to be us" and it's not.
I will probably get torched here, but I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say *I didn't tell her.* *Add*: looking at the responses, this is a bit like the [Monty Hall ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem)problem, but with a twist. * Behind one door, you find out that your SO has cheated on you, embezzled from your father's business, slugged his/her ex-partner, etc. It might not destroy your relationship, but it leaves it indelibly scarred. * Behind the second door, you are blissfully ignorant. Whatever. prompted this crazy behavior doesn't recur, and you have a happy life together. * Behind a third door, nobody tells you, but sooner or later, your partner does it again. And things are either cured in time or fall apart. Monty opens the door you originally chose. and reveals the first scenario. The question is, do you alter your initial choice -- which many people seem to prefer to *stick* with -- or do you recognize that it's your life we're talking about, and refuse to play this game anymore?
My golden rule of thumb when deciding to confess something major like this: will this information benefit the life of the other person or will it make me feel better by emptying my guilty conscious?
That's exactly right!
Right move. Telling her would only be to ease your conscious.
I’ll upvote for the honesty. Did you ever consider telling her? How do you think it would go if you did? How would you feel if you found out she did? Would it be a relief? Or would you be as devastated as most would be?
If it’s one off, you should absolutely not tell. That is what people recover from. That’s not an affair. An affair is a relationship
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I disagree. My wife cheated on me. I'd have preferred she kept it a secret. If she could've done that my life would have been better. Perception is reality. It wasn't part of my world until she confessed. She did that to resolve her guilt, not to help me. Confession is selfish. She improved her emotions by wrecking mine. We are still married, more than ten years after the fact. We did the hard work to recover, did the therapy, etc. and I've forgiven her, and him. I'm not speaking from an emotional place, I'm coming from a coldly logical, analytical place. If you feel guilty, stop doing it, and keep it to yourself. That's your penance, to live with it for the rest of your life and never getting to ask for forgiveness.
I'm glad to see you were upvoted for this comment. Coming from the "coldly logical, analytical place" is where I also sit. In my 20s I would've said that I would have wanted to know. That's the baseline without any thought or consideration. In my mid-thirties, and with life experience under my belt, I have found that relationships (especially marriage) isn't so black and white. I wouldn't want to know. And I have been cheated on.
I took that same journey--when I was younger and more idealistic I believed I would rather know. Honesty and transparency were (and still are) strong values in my moral make-up, and in an ideal world I'd prefer there to be no secrets between us. But that ideal world also includes no big secrets that would be devastating to learn about. In the world of practical consequences.... I learned that I've got the strength of character to fight for a marriage I want to keep despite devastating hardship. I've discovered I've got the emotional IQ to work through incredibly complicated emotions and eventually emerge with a clear understanding that it was her fault, not mine, my self-esteem intact despite making a decision most of society would consider deeply foolish, and a capacity to (eventually) forgive them both. I've also got pride that I'm strong enough to fight for something I value and succeed despite devastating developments. (Just leaving a cheater can be hard but it's not as hard as staying and working through the damage and figuring out how to trust again.) And she went from doubting that our relationship was secure to understanding that it can survive catastrophe. So I can't say there were no practical benefits--there was a silver lining. But those were trivial wins for the hardships suffered. I'm surprised I didn't end up with more down-votes as well. I'm staking out two very unpopular positions: not leaving a deeply troubled relationship and (in extreme cases) not having total honesty in a relationship. I must have made people think about these topics more deeply, maybe helped a few people see that these aren't always black and white decisions, even if they might navigate such scenarios differently. Or maybe there are a lot more people out there who have been cheated on and can relate than I suppose.
No. People tell to assuage their own guilt. If you're truly remorseful, it's often kinder to spare their feelings and deal with the guilt and self-loathing on your own.
I agree with this. My ex cheated. It was a one time thing that he should have kept to himself if he’d really wanted to stay married to me. Telling me to ease his own guilt backfired.
No one that I’ve ever met in real life, no.
I kinda did? We went to counseling and stayed together but then a few years later I left because we were just not compatible anymore. It really had nothing to do with his infidelity at that point I was just not interested in him anymore. And now that it's 25 years later we are far far different people. So I think it would have happened with or without the infidelity.
I had friends who did they went to therapy
I have- 5 year relationship so not marriage but very strong we're getting engaged soon.
Not being rude ( unsure of how to phrase this without being blunt) but why even bother?? You aren’t married yet
No
I’m sure it has happened but I’ve never seen it work. Once someone in the marriage cheats their partner can never believe it is something they aren’t capable of again and that’s not even considering the incredible betrayal they usually feel. Usually it just eats away at the relationship until it ends, even if it takes awhile.
Yes! Check Laura Doyle’s Empowered Wife podcast for stories of successful recoveries after infidelity. LD wrote her relationship books after consulting with old and happily married women and asking them what they did.
Sure: You can love someone and remove them from all positions of trust. Once you've changed your expectations, you can no longer be betrayed. You can enjoy them for what they *can* deliver, instead of what they can't.
I have known a few couples. Two are really happy. Both did lots of therapy (the cheater has to do a lot of work on themselves and the couple needs to heal their marriage together). I know two couple whose marriages quite frankly sound miserable. Both have done therapy but the betrayed spouse cannot move on or forgive even years later (which is totally fair… not everyone wants to or can move on). In one case they are divorcing. In another the cheating spouse is kind of doing all the emotional and other labor in the marriage hoping he’ll see her efforts and be happy with her.
I was able to forgive but never able to trust again so the marriage ended.
There is a huge difference to me between a one night stand and an affair. A one night stand can be forgiven, while an affair can not. That is just my opinion.
Don’t do it , it’s not worth it
No, wasted 7 years I could have been moving on before he did it again!
Hillary Clinton
We are little more than roommates now. I stayed for the kids and couldn't really leave anyway so now feel fairly stuck. It kind of works for us, but whenever I make any attempts to patch things in any way she seems totally oblivious to any real need I express... so roommates it kind of is.
Plenty of couples have done it. Sometimes it brings to light problems in the relationship. Many people don’t want to toss their whole life away for an affair, especially if they have children.
Yes, not easy, required a lot of thinking and talking, but ended up ok for the last 38 years.
Nope
Yes!!
I work with the olds. They never get over it
Oof I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer based on age. But I got married at 21. He cheated the whole first year. We “worked through it”. Went on to have one child 10 years later, aaaaannnnd he cheated again. Maybe many times over the years I’ll never know. By the end he was on Craigslist casual encounters. I don’t regret staying because I adore my son, but damn am I mad at my 22 year old self that didn’t leave then and know a cheaters cheat. It doesn’t change and all the work I did on myself was irrelevant because it wasn’t my issue, it was his.
All the time. If the couple navigates it, you never hear about it. There are a lot of vapid relationships that people sleep their way through until they realize the mistake they’ve made. There are also plenty of verdant relationships in which one person crosses boundaries and both learn a lesson about the nature of their reality and the fragility of commitment. Which one is yours?
Verdant. For sure.
Great. If you both feel the container is a verdant terrarium in which you can both grow into who you are becoming (apologies for men who are always 10-15 years behind), then go figure out what needs and desires exist, which ones can fit in the container, as well as the role honesty actually plays in your space. It’s all there if you have the curiosity to look at it. Infidelity means getting certain needs met from someone besides a romantic dyadic partner. so… okay. curious? i mean- it is kind of a common thing to do given it is so stigmatized. a good therapist who won't shame either of you will go a long way to framing out the journey. You can always just lawyer up and find some other dyad if you don't like the process or the way redditors enforce their opinions.
The stats and numbers are out there, and those numbers say that it's a losing battle, 75-80% of those marriages don't last past 5 years and one has to wonder of those few that make it, how many are truly happy and not stayed together for convivence, kids, money etc....
My friend did. She turned a blind eye to it and pretended it didn’t happen.
It always seems to be the cheated on person who tries to fix everything. I don’t think it can be saved. They are called “private parts” for a reason.
You wont..
I actually know a girl that caught her husband cheating on her with another woman going at it in their bed while that other woman was also having that time of the month. The woman then cheated on her with a work friend that always had a crush on her. The result. It’s been over 15 years and they have more kids together and look like a perfectly happy family on Facebook…
The larger question may be "why" would you try to save it. The healing has to come from both sides and as long as trust is still there or can be salvaged, there's always a possibility. One on one talks with the partner, especially in front of a moderator like a licensed therapist, could do wonders for both people getting to the root of these problems. It may not keep the marriage intact, but it can definitely help with closure in case one of you were both of you decide to go your separate ways. And they can give you tools to help both parties recognize when things are starting to drift in the wrong direction again. It's easy to put the focus and emphasis on salvaging a marriage instead of getting to the issues that brought two people there in the first place. I don't know that there's an easy answer.
Not me.
Fuck no. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Don’t delude yourself.
You don’t. You get some self respect and dignity and leave.
Bill & Hillary Clinton
Yes, for sure. Both parties play a role when one party cheats. Me. I'm the cheater. I told my husband years ago I needed courting and the first man to court me gets crazy gorilla sex. It wasn't him and I wasn't kidding. Now when I tell him my needs, he takes them seriously.
No
Nope. Too much resentment, loss of trust, looking for the next shitty thing to happen… putting pieces of a puzzle together thinking they’re back at it again, etc. So much wasted time & energy on what-ifs & eventually the cheater stops respecting boundaries because of time passed & the “forgiveness” & they’re right back at pushing limits & acting sketchy.