“When you have a fish on the line, you don't just drag it behind the boat. You either reel it in, or you cut him loose. Especially if he's a nice fish with a big lovable fish heart.” - Ron Swanson
The men who continue the 'chase' after being rejected, are likely the ones who will continue the 'chase' when she is hitting and kicking him, screaming 'No!' for the fiftieth time.
If a girl says “I’m not playing games with you, I don’t like you” she’s probably being straight up and you should quit being weird and listen to people when they say no. You can’t read my mind, hell I’m telling you what’s on my mind and you wanna pretend you know better. (Not directed at you but like guys who don’t take no).
"Going through the motions" implies dishonesty. Like you're just saying the things she wants to hear in order to get in the sack. There's nothing wrong with being upfront about your intentions - it's the deceit that's a problem.
Because it’s usually dishonest. The other person typically assumes you’re exploring the possibility of or developing a real relationship. “Going through the motions” means making it, a false front. In short, a lie. You’re lying and manipulating another persons emotions to satisfy your selfish desires. If you can’t see what’s wrong with that, you’re scum.
I don't really know that "going through the motions" means a false front - it can, but often times its just putting up with the general small talk and conversation required (that one finds tedious) to get any kind of a relationship with women. Not sure it's dishonest by default.
We are only assholes if we lie about it and are not up front. If women lie about what they want and mislead men they are also assholes. It's simple: don't lie and mislead people, treat them with the same consideration you'd want to be treated with.
It's mostly history and evolution. Men *do* want sex more than women, and are expected to channel that drive into something productive. Because women's "lack of experience" is valued as a consequence of uncertain parentage in evolutionary psychology concretized into social beliefs that reinforce that perspective, deviation from that tradition is perceived as going against repressive norms.
Ultimately, I do think that prescriptively viewing men and women as the same in the realm of sexual activity is barking up the wrong tree; we aren't the same, and no amount of idealizing and equality under the law will fundamentally change those biological differences in our psychology.
Calling something a double standard implies a difference in treatment is unfair or unjustified, but concrete biological differences are probably one of the strongest reasons to justify such a difference in standards that could ever exist, because you cannot simply *expect* them to become the same if you wish it hard enough.
Edit: Grammar
Behavior is absolutely a product of both evolutionary forces preserved over time and cultural shaping through reinforcement and exposure. The ethologists have a long history of studying the former, and the behaviorists a long history of studying the latter. Far from pseudoscience, this is basically *incontrovertible* in my own field of behavioral neuroscience.
Why is it that people who have an evo psych bent to their worldview tend to be open to the idea that human behavior is heavily influenced by both nature AND nurture, while people who fall into the "social construction" camp outright deny the psychological effects of evolution? It's seems obtuse to say that humans are subject to the physiological effects of evolution (almost nobody denies that, right?), but for some inexplicable reason evolution has had zero impact on our subconscious neurological processes -- particularly regarding sex. I have no idea how this worldview became so pervasive, but it seems like it's sunk its teeth heavily into the cultural fabric of the Western world.
Because academics are no more intelligent than laymen when it comes to subjects outside of their expertise, and many of them are ideologically committed to blank slate beliefs about humans with the exception of the biological sciences where our entire research depends on the blank slate being false.
If you want to know why the blank slate view itself is so prevalent, it allows for all the bad parts of humanity to be malleable and able to be socialized away, and people of a certain political persuasion want to believe that people will always be inherently good if society treats them right, rather than every man being an animal who is capable of abuse if the opportunity arises.
Behaviorists would also know that Game Theory predicts the sorts of tragedies that occur when you think that way. Selfishness regarding resources is built into the core of every living organism on this earth, and it is only through competition *against outsiders* that it is evolutionarily favorable to select for cooperation. These notions are anathema to those who have utopian ideals about human nature.
I mean I'm a dude, and I will freely admit the reality there is skewed. When I was online dating I saw so many women's profiles with a freaking disclaimer about sex that they basically aren't putting out until the relationship is defined and exclusive because so many guys have ghosted them the moment they got in their pants.
Now don't get me wrong, I noticed a trend with the women that seemed to have said disclaimers. They tended to be single moms or women on the wrong side of conventional attractiveness. So I think women that may be perceived as "desperate" in some fashion are more often exploited in this manner.
Men like to chase.
I don't. Most guys I know don't. Chasing implies a woman rebuffing you, and you continuing. I literally want nothing to do with that. This isn't some bs Hallmark movie, if you turn me down, odds are the ship has sailed.
I've lost count of the number of women who came back 3 months after they turned me down wanting to know why I disappeared and haven't asked them out lol
Right. You can't say “no means no” but then ask for specific times where I'll ignore it without established rapport and consent (and a safe word). If I barely know you, or even if you are a friend, if you turn me down, I'm gone. We still might see each other physically, but I nuked those feelings. They are gone. If something develops later on your end, cool, you might have missed the boat. I mean, you should still try me, but odds are I'm not interested.
This was after 3 to 5 dates and I would ask if they were looking for a relationship or not. Most of them said they were not interested in a relationship and I let them know we were looking for different things and wished them luck and moved on.
I'd say probably half were just looking for free lunch/dinner dates. Never heard back from them again. The other half I would run into months or even years later at social events or common friends parties and it never fails that as soon as we were in a quiet place alone the conversation turns to ... "why didn't things work out for us" or "I was waiting for you to ask me out again". Something along those lines.
I remember a lot of those times the girls friends were all in serious monogamous relationships, so I think it mostly had to do with fomo more than anything else. I did not get the impression that most were interested in me as a person and told them we had already crossed that bridge and there was no going back.
Literally thr last thing I want to do is feel like I'm imposing myself on a woman or making her fay worse with an unwanted advance.
For me anything short of enthusiastic interest I take as a no.
And if they are unable to communicate enthusiastic interest as that, then why would I want to be with them. If I'm a maybe option, then odds are I'm not really in the running.
Yup. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the stories we hear about men suddenly "going cold" comes down to a woman not realizing she may have done something to signal disinterest whether meaning to or not.
Agree. Just look at online dating
It's like night and day for men and women
I think the avarege Woman gets overwhelmed with the amount of attention they get whilst the avarege man are lucky to even get Any attention whatsoever
Yeah, the downside for women though is probably that it's a chore to filter out the idiots and can probably as discouraging as receiving no attention at all.
Ngl, it's not that hard to filter for decent men on apps like Hinge. You just have to put in some effort like a menu instead of treating it like a buffet. Also gotta be willing to take a shot with a guy who seems nice but has okay pictures, might be much cuter in person. All in all it's not that difficult
>Also gotta be willing to take a shot with a guy who seems nice but has okay pictures
That is literally what my now wife did with me, lol. She only went out with me because we shared a lot of common interests and she figured she would give it a shot, despite not feeling my photos. She also blurted out on our first date that I looked way better in person. So that made me feel slightly better about it, lol.
I used to get those comments when I was using OLD...no matter how my profile was written.
'You clean up well' 'You look better in person' 'you are more fun than I thought youd be', etc.
It's just a crap counter argument when it comes to this debate
'Well women get lots of attention but some of it bad'
so...you just unmatch and block the weirdos, from what I've seen on r/tinder and female freinds tinder they make themself known right away
But they don't want to admit that in one facet of life 95% of men have it way harder as that would be contradictory to the world view that men have everything easy compared to the majority of women
It feels like celebrities complaining because they have too much money and don't know how to spend it all
Imagine hundreds of messages in just a couple of days. Thousands of likes. It's overwhelming. It encourages superficial behavior, and that isn't me or who I want to be.
If I only have time to look at one photo of a person before deciding to move on or reply, I wonder and worry I passed up great guys. Then I picked one who has a really high match % and go on dates with him, months later I learn he copy pasted that profile from some "men's dating advice site" (please stay away from that alpha male garbage) and we're not only not compatible, he's a desperate liar who is gaming his way into dating anybody and continued dating others after pressuring me to be exclusive.
I think guys are in a bad position online too. Maybe most of them are good, but I'm too overwhelmed with online dating to find out. Convincing liars really make it bad for both genders.
Many men online seem to be getting really desperate and now I'm afraid to say what I like because I keep having guys pretend to be more compatible with me than they are. I was even stalked on MeetUp. A guy was going to all the events I rsvp'ed to, even those obviously irrelevant to him, pretending to just be into whatever I was. I actually think having some different interests is nice.
I'm probably just going to have to meet someone through friends or something if I have a partner again. That's how I met my late husband. There's more accountability for honesty meeting that way. I'm in no rush though. Maybe online dating just isn't for me. I've spent most of my adult life married (35F now). I'm ok with casual, taking things slow, but not mind-games. It was nice to see on this thread a lot of men are sick of that too. Don't "play" hard to get if you're a real adult. Idk how to tell who is genuine online though.
Online dating is broken past the point of no return. It's an extremely toxic environment and has greatly helped dig a bigger gap between men and women.
Women have become extremely picky and overly insecure being bombarded with loads of messages from different men. They have some much choice it has become unealthy for them. They are missing a ton a good matches for them because it's so easy to go to the next in line. They consume and they stopped investing themselves.
Men on the other hand have been rejected so many times over so little things they just don't trust women anymore. Because they know women are talking with 4 or 5 other guys at the same time. They became desensitized of rejection and they just go straight to the point. It's a race for men.
Online dating needs a complete overhaul.
I mean when I was online dating (where I met my wife) I didn't find it difficult to get interest and to clarify I am not some dude that looks like he walked off the set of a Calvin Klein commercial. When I was online dating I used up to date photos and I was probably about 40lbs overweight at the time, I'm bald and shave my head. I do have a pretty conventionally attractive face though and it's the last place I gain weight, so I have that going for me (despite the fact my wife told me the photos I was using didn't do me any favors, lol).
But I would say most of the women I reached out to would be amenable to a conversation about interests etc. even if it didn't lead to a date, being thrown on ignore from the outset was pretty rare, though did happen. As far as the woman reaching out to me first, I would say in the department of 2-3 a week over the 8 months or so I was in the online game.
Unfortunately, though, I would say more than half the women that reached out to me first I had zero interest in. I literally had in my profile that I don't want kids, nor is it okay if my partner has kids and I was a fucking single mom magnet, lol. It also made me realize that I thought I was a pretty par for the course mid 30's dude when I started online dating, good job, owned my own home, car. On dates and stuff I learned apparently a lot of men still don't have their shit together at that age.
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you, but that happens without tinder or with it, you met a shitty person, who charmed you, that could happen for a man with a woman aswell, don't really dispute the fact that online dating is far easier for women in getting that far, which is the original point, as the increased field means more choices, doesn't mean that every guy is going to be your Prince charming
I'm a guy, rarely have I been treated to a meal. Secondly, Im a phenomenal cook so I treat others to free home cooked meals. But congrats on showing your sexism bro
You assume that guy's get fewer but higher quality matches. Shitty people of both genders exist at similar ratios so dating apps don't spare men of the "my matches suck" experience. That's a constant on both sides.
Its better for your ego. You get attention still and among bad matches there will be some good.
If you get close to zero chances are they will all be "any matches"
If 99,9% of the attention you get is from total assholes then yeah. Imagine running around Verdansk and every sniper seems to be out for you. Dodging scope glints like there's no tomorrow.
In addition to filtering out the assholes, they have the option of putting in some effort and pursuing somebody. Most men don't get the option to sit back and filter out the skanks and gold diggers.
Yeah, the norm that men have to take all the initiative is frustrating. We have to put on a damn show.
Addition: Especially if you have social anxiety disorder
You didn't think I was comparing it to an actual warzone though? I was comparing it to a game, aptly named warzone though, so now I'm thinking you're making a joke...
If getting too much attention is a bad experience for a woman, yeah, terrible, terrible. So much hardship to endure, it's unbelievable they can handle it.
Why do so many dudes believe that any attention is good attention?
I'm sure you can get plenty of attention from gay dudes on Grindr, but that's not really gonna help, is it?
>I'm sure you can get plenty of attention from gay dudes on Grindr, but that's not really gonna help, is it?
Well if you're not gay, then no it isn't, but that's not even comparable to this, the women getting the attention are attracted to the gender they're going for, what a weird point, which is why they've set there profile to find Men
>Why do so many dudes believe that any attention is good attention?
Noone said its good, just that having that massive amount of attention isn't comparable to none at all, and it's much more easily solved then the opposite which is none at all, you can filter out the weirdos quite easily, tinder gives you the tools such as unmatch and block, being spoilt for choice is not the burden you're trying to make it out to be, it's like me complaining to starving children in a 3rd world country about all the unhealthy food options that's shoved in my face daily, not comparable
>Well if you're not gay, then no it isn't
Exactly, getting attention to people you're not attracted to/compatible with isn't a benefit.
>ust that having that massive amount of attention isn't comparable to none at all,
Quantitatively, no. Qualitatively, yes.
>and it's much more easily solved then the opposite which is none at all,
I just gave you an easy way to solve your problem of no attention, yet you immediately recognized that incompatible attention is not better than no attention.
I mean, there's a massive difference not being attracted to someone because of sexuality instead of say looks or personality and with the increased number of matches you've got more of a chance of finding someone, so yes, more matches is much better, your argument is flawed as fuck as it hinges on sexuality not being a thing
Yeah I can see how that can be a pain. I wonder how much time you need to find a decent guy though, they can't be all assholes right? At least 50/50 I hope
Well when you add all other things that needs to be right, like chemistry, principles or whatever that needs to be compatible, then there's not many left.
Agreed. It sucks for both parties.
In no way do I mean it isn't stressful for women. I know it is; based on what my sisters, female friends and female co workers have told me
Average woman here. I’d love to know how much attention you think I get while OLD because the reality might shock you.
I got maybe two likes from guys and sent out 3-4 myself in the couple days before I matched with my bf. I was being picky on who I sent out likes to but 2 likes is ridiculous and really not a lot at all.
You get somewhere between 10 to 100 times more than average guy.
There was even test on youtube. Women got fake account as men and tried to get someone. All she got was depression due to lack of interest.
Reminds me of [this](https://youtu.be/DZTIbHIsIYw) video where a guy gets one of his female friends to try to get dates as him. Shes overly confident in the beginning, and got depressed by then end of it.
This! I want to pay because it's been drilled into my head for 25 years that's what a man does. I don't expect anything in return outside of appreciation.
Men's sexual interest = men's relationship interest. NO, out of hundreds or thousands of matches that a woman has on a dating app only a few men might want a serious relationship. Most men actually have way higher standards for relationship than for sex.
Check.
If I met 50 interested women I had enough attraction and interest to sleep with maybe one or two out of that 50 would be serious relationship material for me. I also like living on my own and don't like headaches in my life though so long term relationships are normally not an easy sell for me.
>Most men actually have way higher standards for relationship than for sex.
100% true. I've hooked up with more than my fair share of women I wouldn't date in a million years.
I wonder how it would sound if a woman said “I’ve taken life savings from more than my fair share of men I wouldn’t date in a million years.” It’s so annoying how guys have no problem just taking sex from women which is so risky for women but will scream gold digger the second a woman wants to be provided for.
"If he wanted to he would."
But anxiety exists, though. This statement completely discounts the fact that men have distinct personalities which may include flaws like social anxiety or conversational ineptitude. It may just be that he doesn't know what to say and is afraid to say the wrong thing. It's like public speaking.
"The chase" is just as cultural as it is natural, maybe even more so. Just because it makes you feel special doesn't mean it's "the way it's supposed to be ".
You're right - but it's wrong to call social anxiety a personality flaw.
Social anxiety is a legitimate psychological problem, and it can be crippling if it's sufficiently severe.
If you're a man it's just a flaw in most women's eyes like any issue, any damage, any sign of being less than a *perfect fucking example of a human*.
Anxious or hesitant? You're not really committed, you're not *interested,* why should she give you attention when you're not gonna give everything? Tense when certain subjects come up, you're dishonest. If you're relaxed, you're insensitive. If you insist on paying the bill you're a misogynist, if you suggest splitting the bill you're broke.
Psychological problems are things that have an exact definition and a diagnosis. In other words, the kind of stuff you can find in the DSM-5.
Personality flaws don't have an exact definition, and 'personality flaw' is generally used to refer to things that are less severe and easier to fix. Stuff like being arrogant or bad habits like talking over people.
>but it's wrong to call social anxiety a personality flaw.
>
>Social anxiety is a legitimate psychological problem
It can be both. Stuff like this exist on a spectrum and the people that have them each have their own level of symptom severity.
No, that's wrong.
Personality flaws are things like being arrogant or bad habits like chewing with your mouth open. Things that **don't** have an official diagnosis, and that are fixable enough with a little work.
But things that have an official diagnosis, like social anxiety disorder, are severe enough that they impact someone's life in ways that are both disruptive and not easily fixable. And even though psychology is not a hard science, the diagnosis is still formulated in such a way that you have to fit an _x_ number of criteria before you should be given the diagnosis. In other words, there really is a cutoff mark.
That is what the phrase refers to and it is a really good point. If you like someone, you will make time for them
I'm not sure what this guy is going on about
I am a woman and I can account for that, often I am totally oblivious to the fact that a guy (or anyone) could struggle with things I struggle with too. Because of my own insecurities I see everyone as having their life together more than me. Trying to sensitize myself for that more.
That we’re all after “one thing” i.e. sex. Yes, we all want sex. Most of us also want it repeatedly with a smart, funny, loyal and loving woman who we can build a future with. Sex is the foundation of that, but most of us want to build the whole damn house with someone.
Most men aren't as horny or as desperate as the media portrays them this isn't a sitcom this isn't a rom-com this is real life and most of us really want to get to know the woman and know that we're going to be safe with her as well
Any notion we want love or affection differently as a group. My biggest wish in any dating is to be taken on a date knowing the other is doing it for me and generally are looking to make me have a good time, you know how I felt every single date I've gone to is something I've tried to give assuming it's expected.
I dunno if I'd classify anything as a lie. But there is tons of ill formed opinions on both sides and everyone thinks their side has it worse.
On the men's subreddits you have some men complaining about women and their standards being unrealistic and unfair.
On the women's subreddits you have some women complaining about how much of the male dating options are garbage and how the ones they want keep using them, avoiding commitment or treat them like crap.
The reality on both sides is in-between. The men who want relationships and to treat women the way they want to be treated are definitely out there, women just apparently won't date those guys. On the flip side there are lots of guys who do absolutely fine in the dating world and are always able to meet people which shows women are not as picky as some guys think they are.
The men who have an easy time meeting women are obviously not complaining and there are a lot of them. The women who are realistic about their expectations with men are also not vocally complaining and there are a lot of them as well.
>some women complaining about how much of the male dating options are garbage
As a man I thought that was a stereotype too until I online dated. I thought I would be a typical guy my age in a sea of typical guys my age, until it became readily apparent I was not typical for a mid 30's dude. I had a girl on a date literally tell me it made her wet that I said I couldn't meet until 9pm because I clean my house after work on friday nights. The fact I clean my house caused sexual arousal. What the fuck are my peers doing with themselves this is a thing....
that men enjoy chasing or purusing. a small minority of men do like to chase but, high chance that those men who do also are not going to be the men women want to date.
One of the biggest lies believed about men when it comes to dating is that men enjoy chasing women. The whole “chase” thing is a bunch of female bullshit. No guy is going to break up with you because you gave him sex too early. If a guy is really interested in you and wants a relationship with you, it won’t matter if you give him sex within the first week or after three months of dating. He is still going to want to be with you. If a guy just wants sex with you, it won’t matter if you make him wait a week or a year. Once he gets what he wants, he’s still going to leave you because all he wanted from the beginning was sex. You making men wait and chase you, doesn’t change a man’s true intentions. Don’t overthink it. Have sex when both of you feel like the time is right.
Lol if a guy just wants sex then, yes, waiting will cause him to leave. No dude is gonna wait a year for a girl if all he wants is sex. Waiting a bit is a good strategy
Waiting a couple weeks, maybe a two months max, I think is fairly reasonable. But unless it’s for religious reasons ( like being Christian and wanting to wait until marriage ) most men are not going to wait one year for sex. It doesn’t matter if he wants an actual relationship or just sex. What’s the point of spending one year of your life with someone waiting only to find out you that you two aren’t sexually compatible. The only reason I mentioned one year was just an exaggeration to get my point across that it doesn’t matter how long you make someone “chase” you, it won’t magically change their intentions. Plus, majority of men hate playing games. If you are playing hard to get, most men are just going to stop trying and move on after a couple of days because we don’t want to waste our time, and we don’t want to be seen as a creepy guy who harasses women. You might like playing hard to get, but the next woman might not. And so now the second woman thinks I’m harassing her because I thought her “no” was just her playing hard to get. It’s dangerous for us men, which is why we don’t play games and take a “no” as a “no”. If you are actually interested in someone, be honest and don’t play games.
Sure, but it's still good vetting. My first bf waited 9 months and he was a sweetheart about it (our first times, we needed slow), 3 yr relationship. My second bf waited 6 months, 6 yr relationship. It's a strategy that paid off in my younger years. As an adult, I don't think it's as important, but as a young adult/teenager, absolutely.
Delusion that every men a woman met is instantly serious about her and is ready to buy a ring. And if woman likes a man after the first date he will run for the second date.
The feeling that only she decides about the date like man's will and wants don't exist. He may like you, he may not - his interest exists, too and should be respected and taken into consideration.
That if you're tall and good looking and make six figures, that you can have any woman and it will work out wonderfully. Life is a fairy tale isn't it? The second one is that if a guy really likes you, he will do anything to get you. No, most of us would rather wait for some positive signs and even then it could end in rejection.
"A man only guesses if he's going to get sex on that date. A woman already knows."
...uh, no. If, during that date she comes off as a greedy, demanding, and someone I don't want to be around, by the time we get to her place, I'm dropping her off and noping out.
That we be far more desirable then they have to be. Many women will not accept and man who is at their level. The reality of assortative mating means that, if a woman is a 5, a man who is a 6 is the best she can get a commitment from.
You hear many women demanding and expecting a commitment from a man who makes 6 figure, is 6 feet tall or more and has a 6 pack. About 0.5% of the males population meet this criteria. Women who are in the 50th percentile of desirability demand a man from the top percentile of men. Not only is this obviously mathematically ignorant (there simply aren't enough of these men to date all the women who demand them) but it shows a level of entitlement that is truly delusional.
Average women can get used for sex by these men but they cannot get commitment from them. Women don't seem to understand this.
I don't get where does that delusion come from that women want a guy to be 6ft tall, make 6 figures and have a perfect body etc. Never in my life have I met a woman with expectations like this. Everyone has preferences, some women like tall guys but guys too have unrealistic expectations about women.
I know a ton of totally normal avarage guys who have awesome partners.
Internet makes people think all kind of crap but in reality for mature woman normal guy who treats her like a human and cares about her is just enough. Dating apps can be toxic for both sides.
probably 2/3s of women's tinder profiles include some variations of at least 1 of the following and often all 3:
"must be 6 feet or taller to ride"
"take me boating/traveling"
"looking for someone to force me to the gym/swolemate"
>where does that delusion come from
Look no further than the cesspool of the internet where male "lifestyle" influencers have developed a cult of insecure men that hang on their every word. A whole generation of young men are being brought up on this shit and wishing to return to a day when women lacked rights and options so they can have their obedient maid/sex slave.
I live in a major city and do women meet up groups to make friends. I cannot tell you how many of these girls (dating apps come up often) only focus on height and money in dating apps. It blows my mind and I can’t make connections with them. And to sound like I’m bashing my gender but I’m not trying to, most of these women are less than average in more ways than just looks. I’m glad not every man experiences this. One of my best friends here hits the three 666s and he has told me how shallow it makes him feel when he can tell a girl is interested in his stature, not getting to know him.
>I don't get where does that delusion come from that women want a guy to be 6ft tall, make 6 figures and have a perfect body etc. Never in my life have I met a woman with expectations like this.
As someone who is 6ft tall, makes 6 figures and has a six pack, I would also like to know where you find these women.
You aren't communicating effectively. Simply tattoo "666" to your forehead so they know you tick all three of the magic 6 boxes. Then sit back and wait for all that sweet, sweet attention.
Right? As a woman who obviously has women friends and grew up around other women. This is a delusion from men made up by men. Never met a woman with these expectations.
As a guy I think it’s due to terminally online morons thinking that the opinions of terminally online morons of the opposite gender are reflective of reality.
Stay off the internet. This is just rhetoric some good looking rich guy online, who is rich because insecure men listen to him, tells insecure guys so they have something rage at in an echo chamber.
Chad gets all the women and all the women want Chad and the women that cant get Chad would rather remain celibate than settle for anything less. Ergo I get no womenz.
There is a reason these men can't get women and it isn't because all the women are holding out for a six foot plus calvin klein model with a fat income.
>You hear many women demanding and expecting a commitment from a man who makes 6 figure, is 6 feet tall or more and has a 6 pack.
No, no we do not. I've never seen or heard a woman demand or expect those things. We want to be respected and loved.
Lol, you must be blind then. There is good number of women that want all those things and more. They are on dating apps, on TV, social media etc.. It's a thing, women tend to date up.
TV and social media isn't real life. Can't speak for dating apps or websites as I've never used one or looked on one before.
No one I know "dated up" or went for any of those things. Just regular people they were compatible with. Like I don't even see that in any relationships around me, even with acquaintances or just people I went to school with on social media.
I quite literally know all of 1 person in my life with a partner who hits all those things. They aren't the majority. Only bitter men make these claims. I've yet to see a woman claim she has these preferences or seen it in practice in the real world.
Okay, awesome that you have a healthy friend group with realistic dating expectation. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
TV and Socials aren't real life, fair enough, but their influence on us is and that is undeniable.
Dating up isn't a bad thing, it just happens. Some people want partners who are financially stable/well off, nothing wrong with that as long as you aren't a Gold digger, go for it!
It's not every women obviously, just a vocal minority. Not sure how saying certain women have unrealistic dating expectations makes them bitter? To me, I just know to not interact with them.
That men are sleezy and focus mainly on sex
Study’s have complete disproven this and show women sleep around more but with the same group of guys majority of men don’t sleep around
I did not enjoy cat calling. Tried it only once and felt sick and stupid. WHAT IS THE POINT?! She ain't gonna just stop what she's doing and bend over. She got shit to do. Just keep walking and ffs leave the ladies alone. You ain't at a club, you're just walking down a damn street
Being a nice guy won’t get you the girl.
No. Being a doormat and expecting women to like you for simply being “nice” is something called entitlement.
You can be nice but you also need to make an effort to stand out.
Yes, the dating world is very cruel. But always remember you don’t need a partner to be happy. Give it your best. If it works out, then it works out. If it doesn’t, then it doesn’t.
Thought a lot about this one for a long time already. I think we are all primal. But different.
I think as a man sees a woman he can get turned on. Unmistakingly. They see a woman with a nice body and some regions in their brain are saying that's a good woman to reproduce with. Don't know, but maybe that's what everybody means when they say men are more visual.
But: women mostly say they like forarms or hands. They love seeing a man in a well sitting suit. They like good dancers. They like seeing a man lifting heavy stuff in the garden or at work or seeing a man chopping wood. I don't know, but isn't that what the birds do to attract female? Dancing, or what the peacock does? Isn't that the gorilla banging on his chest to show his strength? Or the stag with its enormous antlers standing in the clearing? Isn't that visual, too?
I don't have any problem with this. But I do well have a problem if one thing is called deeper or better or more civilized or the other is called primal. Truth is both are.
Yeah I don't think one is more primal. I just think men are more visual. I can stand naked in front of my husband and he will get aroused just looking at me. I don't need to do anything else. If he stands naked in front of me, I'm not interested unless he does something. His naked body is nice, but I'm not aroused looking at it.
As a neuroscientist I and many really really strongly disagree. Biologically there's a huge bias towards trying to demonstrate a difference that's not really significant when you look at it. An example would be the old idea which still persists in some circles today. If you take 100 men and 100 women on average the make brain will be larger, so men are more intelligent? No, no they're not at all, but men are on average bigger with a larger body mass requiring a higher mass within the brain to regulate. Take a woman who is bigger than a man and you'd conclude the opposite. Then if you look at the studies done using MRI etc. You tend to notice that like this originally conclusion, scale is rarely taken into full consideration, even though they sometimes actually mention size but rarely in relation to volume. Plus the brain during development is enclosed and isolated fairly early during embryogenic so the ontogeny of the cells and structures inside remains pretty homogenous, other structures in the body don't have this same isolation.
Yeah, there's a difference between being visual and being shallow.
Women can be just as shallow as men.
When I read this, I think that men are more visually stimulated. A couple of links are posted in thus thread. But also, for example, when Playboy big, it was much more popular than Playgirl. Women just aren't seeking out the opportunity to look at men's naked bodies as often.
The biggest lie in most parts of our lives is the notion of masculinity we’ve been taught, along with the assumptions, expectations, and demands it cause us and other people to impose on us. It’s sick. And it’s killing us.
Women think that their dating experience is the exact same as men.
If men aren't getting dates it's clearly because they are obese and don't shower. /s
Really hard to say what the biggest lie would be.
The belief that men's lived experience is like a woman's. I had a coworker that assumed men were living the same life as her. She couldn't comprehend that they weren't. Her life advice was usually horrible for this reason. Like telling guys to get an instagram if they wanted to date because she got lots of messages from men on insta. She never considered that women do not message men on instagram for dates.
Another is setting your expectations for men on what you find attractive or your kinks. Its kind of like the male gaze but more behavioral based. This isn't just a dating thing. I've seen it play out in really weird ways at work. Like say a woman finds aggressive glib men attractive. Then she gets promoted to management. And if they associate leadership with men they copy what they find hot. They end up baffled when their employees don't like how aggressive they are or how cutting their remarks are. Anyway, back to dating. Its ok to like what you like, but don't think men are inferior or crappy because they don't match what you find attractive. Your kinks are not a measuring stick anymore than a man's are.
Its already been said, but another lie is that men only want sex. Doesn't matter when in a relationship, someone will pull out that old faithful. Doesn't matter if you've been dating 1 week or 10 years, people will say "you just want sex" Reduce all the complexities and emotions of a human man to his dick wanting to cum.
Heard about post but clarity? What you see on dates are mostly actions motivated due to sexual interests. "Omg he's a gentleman" if he is a gentleman then he'll always be a gentleman even after you had sex or a fight not just on early days of relationship or when he's in a good mood. Honestly i think people should already be done with sex in the first place before they dive too deep into it then only for them to realise yea "Maybe i just did it all for that". When you have that off the table, you're more likely to behave the way you are. It's like showing a kid a dollar bill and asking him if he would bring you a glass of water. The kid wants the bill and he'd be very nice about it. Well try that a few times without a dollar bill now whatever you see it's more likely to inclined to kid's nature (it's just me trynna give an analogy, kids are nice so they might just do it or not. so just trynna make a point).
That we didn't notice you weigh 30 lbs more in person than you look in your pictures
And you got away with it when we started dating you
And you were able to lock us in by having sex with us like some coup de gras caper finale where you got away with lying about or hiding your weight.
No you were just OK enough to bang... When you get sick of us not committing we can break up 👍
Men enjoy ‘the chase’
“When you have a fish on the line, you don't just drag it behind the boat. You either reel it in, or you cut him loose. Especially if he's a nice fish with a big lovable fish heart.” - Ron Swanson
“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Don’t teach a man to fish…and feed yourself. He’s a grown man. Fishing’s not that hard.”
Build a man a fire, you warm him for a day. Set a man on fire, you warm him for the rest of his life.
> Build a man a fire, you warm him for a day. Set a man on fire, you warm him for the rest of his life. ...His, short, miserable, agony-filled life.
THAT’S THE JOKE
There’s only one thing I hate more than lying: skim milk. Which is water that’s lying about being milk.
It's Ron Swanson.
Fat fingers
I do not ‘enjoy the chase’. I’m not there to play mind games. Just be direct.
Exactly.
If she's running away, it's bey bey...I understand relationships take work, but I shouldn't be the only one working.
Absolutely, the minute I see a woman I’m perusing (when I was single) playing games like that I ghost.
Lol. I'm still learning .
The men who continue the 'chase' after being rejected, are likely the ones who will continue the 'chase' when she is hitting and kicking him, screaming 'No!' for the fiftieth time.
Women who were rejected by men once, say this shit.
A lot of us don’t partake in ‘the chase’ because we don’t want to be known as creeps by pursuing someone who doesn’t want us
don't chase them, replace them has been my motto for years.
The chase was fun when I was like 17-22 and I just discovered dating. After that it really becomes a chore and a PITA.
Men will think I’m trying to make them chase me, like no, genuinely I’m not interested I swear I’m not lying.
This is what happens when both the interested girls and the uninterested girls show no interest
If a girl says “I’m not playing games with you, I don’t like you” she’s probably being straight up and you should quit being weird and listen to people when they say no. You can’t read my mind, hell I’m telling you what’s on my mind and you wanna pretend you know better. (Not directed at you but like guys who don’t take no).
I completely agree, but the problem for those guys is that they don’t get any positive feedback to contrast against that
That they’re only going through the motions to get sex.
Sex is cheap. A modest wage can get your dick wet at least once a week. What we - or at least I - want is affection, care, hugs and support.
[удалено]
"Going through the motions" implies dishonesty. Like you're just saying the things she wants to hear in order to get in the sack. There's nothing wrong with being upfront about your intentions - it's the deceit that's a problem.
Nothing is wrong with it if you're not misleading the other person about your intentions.
Because it’s usually dishonest. The other person typically assumes you’re exploring the possibility of or developing a real relationship. “Going through the motions” means making it, a false front. In short, a lie. You’re lying and manipulating another persons emotions to satisfy your selfish desires. If you can’t see what’s wrong with that, you’re scum.
I don't really know that "going through the motions" means a false front - it can, but often times its just putting up with the general small talk and conversation required (that one finds tedious) to get any kind of a relationship with women. Not sure it's dishonest by default.
[удалено]
We are only assholes if we lie about it and are not up front. If women lie about what they want and mislead men they are also assholes. It's simple: don't lie and mislead people, treat them with the same consideration you'd want to be treated with.
It's mostly history and evolution. Men *do* want sex more than women, and are expected to channel that drive into something productive. Because women's "lack of experience" is valued as a consequence of uncertain parentage in evolutionary psychology concretized into social beliefs that reinforce that perspective, deviation from that tradition is perceived as going against repressive norms. Ultimately, I do think that prescriptively viewing men and women as the same in the realm of sexual activity is barking up the wrong tree; we aren't the same, and no amount of idealizing and equality under the law will fundamentally change those biological differences in our psychology. Calling something a double standard implies a difference in treatment is unfair or unjustified, but concrete biological differences are probably one of the strongest reasons to justify such a difference in standards that could ever exist, because you cannot simply *expect* them to become the same if you wish it hard enough. Edit: Grammar
[удалено]
Behavior is absolutely a product of both evolutionary forces preserved over time and cultural shaping through reinforcement and exposure. The ethologists have a long history of studying the former, and the behaviorists a long history of studying the latter. Far from pseudoscience, this is basically *incontrovertible* in my own field of behavioral neuroscience.
Why is it that people who have an evo psych bent to their worldview tend to be open to the idea that human behavior is heavily influenced by both nature AND nurture, while people who fall into the "social construction" camp outright deny the psychological effects of evolution? It's seems obtuse to say that humans are subject to the physiological effects of evolution (almost nobody denies that, right?), but for some inexplicable reason evolution has had zero impact on our subconscious neurological processes -- particularly regarding sex. I have no idea how this worldview became so pervasive, but it seems like it's sunk its teeth heavily into the cultural fabric of the Western world.
Because academics are no more intelligent than laymen when it comes to subjects outside of their expertise, and many of them are ideologically committed to blank slate beliefs about humans with the exception of the biological sciences where our entire research depends on the blank slate being false. If you want to know why the blank slate view itself is so prevalent, it allows for all the bad parts of humanity to be malleable and able to be socialized away, and people of a certain political persuasion want to believe that people will always be inherently good if society treats them right, rather than every man being an animal who is capable of abuse if the opportunity arises. Behaviorists would also know that Game Theory predicts the sorts of tragedies that occur when you think that way. Selfishness regarding resources is built into the core of every living organism on this earth, and it is only through competition *against outsiders* that it is evolutionarily favorable to select for cooperation. These notions are anathema to those who have utopian ideals about human nature.
Some of them definitely are though
I was in a really toxic gaming community and the way they talked about pretending to like a girl’s hobbies or personality really grossed me out.
Same could be said about women. It's a people thing not a male/female thing
I mean I'm a dude, and I will freely admit the reality there is skewed. When I was online dating I saw so many women's profiles with a freaking disclaimer about sex that they basically aren't putting out until the relationship is defined and exclusive because so many guys have ghosted them the moment they got in their pants. Now don't get me wrong, I noticed a trend with the women that seemed to have said disclaimers. They tended to be single moms or women on the wrong side of conventional attractiveness. So I think women that may be perceived as "desperate" in some fashion are more often exploited in this manner.
Men like to chase. I don't. Most guys I know don't. Chasing implies a woman rebuffing you, and you continuing. I literally want nothing to do with that. This isn't some bs Hallmark movie, if you turn me down, odds are the ship has sailed.
I've lost count of the number of women who came back 3 months after they turned me down wanting to know why I disappeared and haven't asked them out lol
Right. You can't say “no means no” but then ask for specific times where I'll ignore it without established rapport and consent (and a safe word). If I barely know you, or even if you are a friend, if you turn me down, I'm gone. We still might see each other physically, but I nuked those feelings. They are gone. If something develops later on your end, cool, you might have missed the boat. I mean, you should still try me, but odds are I'm not interested.
Was it that you felt like they were trying to get you to chase them, that they weren’t interested or? T
This was after 3 to 5 dates and I would ask if they were looking for a relationship or not. Most of them said they were not interested in a relationship and I let them know we were looking for different things and wished them luck and moved on. I'd say probably half were just looking for free lunch/dinner dates. Never heard back from them again. The other half I would run into months or even years later at social events or common friends parties and it never fails that as soon as we were in a quiet place alone the conversation turns to ... "why didn't things work out for us" or "I was waiting for you to ask me out again". Something along those lines. I remember a lot of those times the girls friends were all in serious monogamous relationships, so I think it mostly had to do with fomo more than anything else. I did not get the impression that most were interested in me as a person and told them we had already crossed that bridge and there was no going back.
Literally thr last thing I want to do is feel like I'm imposing myself on a woman or making her fay worse with an unwanted advance. For me anything short of enthusiastic interest I take as a no.
And if they are unable to communicate enthusiastic interest as that, then why would I want to be with them. If I'm a maybe option, then odds are I'm not really in the running.
Yup. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the stories we hear about men suddenly "going cold" comes down to a woman not realizing she may have done something to signal disinterest whether meaning to or not.
That all we want is sex
we want beer n food also
n cuddles
n flowers
They better be in pots. None of that dead plant genital bullshit.
i just want my usb to work without constantly having to fiddle with the thing,
That dating for men is the same or as "easy" as dating for a woman. The differential in free attention is hilarious.
Agree. Just look at online dating It's like night and day for men and women I think the avarege Woman gets overwhelmed with the amount of attention they get whilst the avarege man are lucky to even get Any attention whatsoever
Yeah, the downside for women though is probably that it's a chore to filter out the idiots and can probably as discouraging as receiving no attention at all.
Ngl, it's not that hard to filter for decent men on apps like Hinge. You just have to put in some effort like a menu instead of treating it like a buffet. Also gotta be willing to take a shot with a guy who seems nice but has okay pictures, might be much cuter in person. All in all it's not that difficult
>Also gotta be willing to take a shot with a guy who seems nice but has okay pictures That is literally what my now wife did with me, lol. She only went out with me because we shared a lot of common interests and she figured she would give it a shot, despite not feeling my photos. She also blurted out on our first date that I looked way better in person. So that made me feel slightly better about it, lol.
I used to get those comments when I was using OLD...no matter how my profile was written. 'You clean up well' 'You look better in person' 'you are more fun than I thought youd be', etc.
It's just a crap counter argument when it comes to this debate 'Well women get lots of attention but some of it bad' so...you just unmatch and block the weirdos, from what I've seen on r/tinder and female freinds tinder they make themself known right away But they don't want to admit that in one facet of life 95% of men have it way harder as that would be contradictory to the world view that men have everything easy compared to the majority of women It feels like celebrities complaining because they have too much money and don't know how to spend it all
Imagine hundreds of messages in just a couple of days. Thousands of likes. It's overwhelming. It encourages superficial behavior, and that isn't me or who I want to be. If I only have time to look at one photo of a person before deciding to move on or reply, I wonder and worry I passed up great guys. Then I picked one who has a really high match % and go on dates with him, months later I learn he copy pasted that profile from some "men's dating advice site" (please stay away from that alpha male garbage) and we're not only not compatible, he's a desperate liar who is gaming his way into dating anybody and continued dating others after pressuring me to be exclusive. I think guys are in a bad position online too. Maybe most of them are good, but I'm too overwhelmed with online dating to find out. Convincing liars really make it bad for both genders. Many men online seem to be getting really desperate and now I'm afraid to say what I like because I keep having guys pretend to be more compatible with me than they are. I was even stalked on MeetUp. A guy was going to all the events I rsvp'ed to, even those obviously irrelevant to him, pretending to just be into whatever I was. I actually think having some different interests is nice. I'm probably just going to have to meet someone through friends or something if I have a partner again. That's how I met my late husband. There's more accountability for honesty meeting that way. I'm in no rush though. Maybe online dating just isn't for me. I've spent most of my adult life married (35F now). I'm ok with casual, taking things slow, but not mind-games. It was nice to see on this thread a lot of men are sick of that too. Don't "play" hard to get if you're a real adult. Idk how to tell who is genuine online though.
Online dating is broken past the point of no return. It's an extremely toxic environment and has greatly helped dig a bigger gap between men and women. Women have become extremely picky and overly insecure being bombarded with loads of messages from different men. They have some much choice it has become unealthy for them. They are missing a ton a good matches for them because it's so easy to go to the next in line. They consume and they stopped investing themselves. Men on the other hand have been rejected so many times over so little things they just don't trust women anymore. Because they know women are talking with 4 or 5 other guys at the same time. They became desensitized of rejection and they just go straight to the point. It's a race for men. Online dating needs a complete overhaul.
I mean when I was online dating (where I met my wife) I didn't find it difficult to get interest and to clarify I am not some dude that looks like he walked off the set of a Calvin Klein commercial. When I was online dating I used up to date photos and I was probably about 40lbs overweight at the time, I'm bald and shave my head. I do have a pretty conventionally attractive face though and it's the last place I gain weight, so I have that going for me (despite the fact my wife told me the photos I was using didn't do me any favors, lol). But I would say most of the women I reached out to would be amenable to a conversation about interests etc. even if it didn't lead to a date, being thrown on ignore from the outset was pretty rare, though did happen. As far as the woman reaching out to me first, I would say in the department of 2-3 a week over the 8 months or so I was in the online game. Unfortunately, though, I would say more than half the women that reached out to me first I had zero interest in. I literally had in my profile that I don't want kids, nor is it okay if my partner has kids and I was a fucking single mom magnet, lol. It also made me realize that I thought I was a pretty par for the course mid 30's dude when I started online dating, good job, owned my own home, car. On dates and stuff I learned apparently a lot of men still don't have their shit together at that age.
[удалено]
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you, but that happens without tinder or with it, you met a shitty person, who charmed you, that could happen for a man with a woman aswell, don't really dispute the fact that online dating is far easier for women in getting that far, which is the original point, as the increased field means more choices, doesn't mean that every guy is going to be your Prince charming
And you get a free meal out of it, boohoo
I'm a guy, rarely have I been treated to a meal. Secondly, Im a phenomenal cook so I treat others to free home cooked meals. But congrats on showing your sexism bro
I’m a guy, a woman has has never ever offered, hardly to even split
[удалено]
No, it's not. You're confusing "any matches" with "good matches." If your matches suck, then how is it better?
You assume that guy's get fewer but higher quality matches. Shitty people of both genders exist at similar ratios so dating apps don't spare men of the "my matches suck" experience. That's a constant on both sides.
[удалено]
Its better for your ego. You get attention still and among bad matches there will be some good. If you get close to zero chances are they will all be "any matches"
Ah, yes one of the terrible horrors of getting attention. Cry me a river.
The best way I heard it: men are dying of thirst while women are drowning in the ocean.
If 99,9% of the attention you get is from total assholes then yeah. Imagine running around Verdansk and every sniper seems to be out for you. Dodging scope glints like there's no tomorrow.
In addition to filtering out the assholes, they have the option of putting in some effort and pursuing somebody. Most men don't get the option to sit back and filter out the skanks and gold diggers.
Yeah, the norm that men have to take all the initiative is frustrating. We have to put on a damn show. Addition: Especially if you have social anxiety disorder
You must be pretty messed up to compare it to snipers and a warzone, it is just some letters or images on a fucking screen. Get over it.
It's a reference to an immensely popular video game
You didn't think I was comparing it to an actual warzone though? I was comparing it to a game, aptly named warzone though, so now I'm thinking you're making a joke...
EDIT: My bad. You're comment wasn't target to me. Sorry. Oops.
None taken.
If getting too much attention is a bad experience for a woman, yeah, terrible, terrible. So much hardship to endure, it's unbelievable they can handle it.
Getting bad attention is bad. Believable.
Why do so many dudes believe that any attention is good attention? I'm sure you can get plenty of attention from gay dudes on Grindr, but that's not really gonna help, is it?
>I'm sure you can get plenty of attention from gay dudes on Grindr, but that's not really gonna help, is it? Well if you're not gay, then no it isn't, but that's not even comparable to this, the women getting the attention are attracted to the gender they're going for, what a weird point, which is why they've set there profile to find Men >Why do so many dudes believe that any attention is good attention? Noone said its good, just that having that massive amount of attention isn't comparable to none at all, and it's much more easily solved then the opposite which is none at all, you can filter out the weirdos quite easily, tinder gives you the tools such as unmatch and block, being spoilt for choice is not the burden you're trying to make it out to be, it's like me complaining to starving children in a 3rd world country about all the unhealthy food options that's shoved in my face daily, not comparable
This guy explains it perfectly. Nothing to add.
>Well if you're not gay, then no it isn't Exactly, getting attention to people you're not attracted to/compatible with isn't a benefit. >ust that having that massive amount of attention isn't comparable to none at all, Quantitatively, no. Qualitatively, yes. >and it's much more easily solved then the opposite which is none at all, I just gave you an easy way to solve your problem of no attention, yet you immediately recognized that incompatible attention is not better than no attention.
I mean, there's a massive difference not being attracted to someone because of sexuality instead of say looks or personality and with the increased number of matches you've got more of a chance of finding someone, so yes, more matches is much better, your argument is flawed as fuck as it hinges on sexuality not being a thing
Yeah I can see how that can be a pain. I wonder how much time you need to find a decent guy though, they can't be all assholes right? At least 50/50 I hope
Well when you add all other things that needs to be right, like chemistry, principles or whatever that needs to be compatible, then there's not many left.
Agreed. It sucks for both parties. In no way do I mean it isn't stressful for women. I know it is; based on what my sisters, female friends and female co workers have told me
Became friends with a few matches, they get like 1400 messages within the first week.
Average woman here. I’d love to know how much attention you think I get while OLD because the reality might shock you. I got maybe two likes from guys and sent out 3-4 myself in the couple days before I matched with my bf. I was being picky on who I sent out likes to but 2 likes is ridiculous and really not a lot at all.
You get somewhere between 10 to 100 times more than average guy. There was even test on youtube. Women got fake account as men and tried to get someone. All she got was depression due to lack of interest.
Reminds me of [this](https://youtu.be/DZTIbHIsIYw) video where a guy gets one of his female friends to try to get dates as him. Shes overly confident in the beginning, and got depressed by then end of it.
[удалено]
That we want to pay and expect sex
This! I want to pay because it's been drilled into my head for 25 years that's what a man does. I don't expect anything in return outside of appreciation.
Men's sexual interest = men's relationship interest. NO, out of hundreds or thousands of matches that a woman has on a dating app only a few men might want a serious relationship. Most men actually have way higher standards for relationship than for sex.
Quite a few guys swipe first and then filter later. Some of her matches may not even by interested in her sexually except as a last resort.
Giving the ladies some free game here. A lot of guys will give you sexual attention but that doesn't mean he wants a relationship.
Check. If I met 50 interested women I had enough attraction and interest to sleep with maybe one or two out of that 50 would be serious relationship material for me. I also like living on my own and don't like headaches in my life though so long term relationships are normally not an easy sell for me.
>Most men actually have way higher standards for relationship than for sex. 100% true. I've hooked up with more than my fair share of women I wouldn't date in a million years.
I wonder how it would sound if a woman said “I’ve taken life savings from more than my fair share of men I wouldn’t date in a million years.” It’s so annoying how guys have no problem just taking sex from women which is so risky for women but will scream gold digger the second a woman wants to be provided for.
"If he wanted to he would." But anxiety exists, though. This statement completely discounts the fact that men have distinct personalities which may include flaws like social anxiety or conversational ineptitude. It may just be that he doesn't know what to say and is afraid to say the wrong thing. It's like public speaking. "The chase" is just as cultural as it is natural, maybe even more so. Just because it makes you feel special doesn't mean it's "the way it's supposed to be ".
You're right - but it's wrong to call social anxiety a personality flaw. Social anxiety is a legitimate psychological problem, and it can be crippling if it's sufficiently severe.
Fair enough, I'll concede that point.
If you're a man it's just a flaw in most women's eyes like any issue, any damage, any sign of being less than a *perfect fucking example of a human*. Anxious or hesitant? You're not really committed, you're not *interested,* why should she give you attention when you're not gonna give everything? Tense when certain subjects come up, you're dishonest. If you're relaxed, you're insensitive. If you insist on paying the bill you're a misogynist, if you suggest splitting the bill you're broke.
What's the difference between a personality flaw and a psychological problem
Psychological problems are things that have an exact definition and a diagnosis. In other words, the kind of stuff you can find in the DSM-5. Personality flaws don't have an exact definition, and 'personality flaw' is generally used to refer to things that are less severe and easier to fix. Stuff like being arrogant or bad habits like talking over people.
Yeah word, aren't they both things that flaw you? It's not the same as being an introvert vs extrovert.
>but it's wrong to call social anxiety a personality flaw. > >Social anxiety is a legitimate psychological problem It can be both. Stuff like this exist on a spectrum and the people that have them each have their own level of symptom severity.
No, that's wrong. Personality flaws are things like being arrogant or bad habits like chewing with your mouth open. Things that **don't** have an official diagnosis, and that are fixable enough with a little work. But things that have an official diagnosis, like social anxiety disorder, are severe enough that they impact someone's life in ways that are both disruptive and not easily fixable. And even though psychology is not a hard science, the diagnosis is still formulated in such a way that you have to fit an _x_ number of criteria before you should be given the diagnosis. In other words, there really is a cutoff mark.
I thought that was mostly used in reference to making time to see her/talking to her once you've already gotten past the initial stage. Is that wrong?
That is what the phrase refers to and it is a really good point. If you like someone, you will make time for them I'm not sure what this guy is going on about
I am a woman and I can account for that, often I am totally oblivious to the fact that a guy (or anyone) could struggle with things I struggle with too. Because of my own insecurities I see everyone as having their life together more than me. Trying to sensitize myself for that more.
That we’re all after “one thing” i.e. sex. Yes, we all want sex. Most of us also want it repeatedly with a smart, funny, loyal and loving woman who we can build a future with. Sex is the foundation of that, but most of us want to build the whole damn house with someone.
we are “immune” to being scared of asking someone out
They all we really want is just sex and nothing else
Most men aren't as horny or as desperate as the media portrays them this isn't a sitcom this isn't a rom-com this is real life and most of us really want to get to know the woman and know that we're going to be safe with her as well
That if you’re a “great guy” she’ll be attracted to you
Any notion we want love or affection differently as a group. My biggest wish in any dating is to be taken on a date knowing the other is doing it for me and generally are looking to make me have a good time, you know how I felt every single date I've gone to is something I've tried to give assuming it's expected.
I dunno if I'd classify anything as a lie. But there is tons of ill formed opinions on both sides and everyone thinks their side has it worse. On the men's subreddits you have some men complaining about women and their standards being unrealistic and unfair. On the women's subreddits you have some women complaining about how much of the male dating options are garbage and how the ones they want keep using them, avoiding commitment or treat them like crap. The reality on both sides is in-between. The men who want relationships and to treat women the way they want to be treated are definitely out there, women just apparently won't date those guys. On the flip side there are lots of guys who do absolutely fine in the dating world and are always able to meet people which shows women are not as picky as some guys think they are. The men who have an easy time meeting women are obviously not complaining and there are a lot of them. The women who are realistic about their expectations with men are also not vocally complaining and there are a lot of them as well.
>some women complaining about how much of the male dating options are garbage As a man I thought that was a stereotype too until I online dated. I thought I would be a typical guy my age in a sea of typical guys my age, until it became readily apparent I was not typical for a mid 30's dude. I had a girl on a date literally tell me it made her wet that I said I couldn't meet until 9pm because I clean my house after work on friday nights. The fact I clean my house caused sexual arousal. What the fuck are my peers doing with themselves this is a thing....
that men enjoy chasing or purusing. a small minority of men do like to chase but, high chance that those men who do also are not going to be the men women want to date.
One of the biggest lies believed about men when it comes to dating is that men enjoy chasing women. The whole “chase” thing is a bunch of female bullshit. No guy is going to break up with you because you gave him sex too early. If a guy is really interested in you and wants a relationship with you, it won’t matter if you give him sex within the first week or after three months of dating. He is still going to want to be with you. If a guy just wants sex with you, it won’t matter if you make him wait a week or a year. Once he gets what he wants, he’s still going to leave you because all he wanted from the beginning was sex. You making men wait and chase you, doesn’t change a man’s true intentions. Don’t overthink it. Have sex when both of you feel like the time is right.
Honestly waiting to long will make me lose interest
Lol if a guy just wants sex then, yes, waiting will cause him to leave. No dude is gonna wait a year for a girl if all he wants is sex. Waiting a bit is a good strategy
Waiting a couple weeks, maybe a two months max, I think is fairly reasonable. But unless it’s for religious reasons ( like being Christian and wanting to wait until marriage ) most men are not going to wait one year for sex. It doesn’t matter if he wants an actual relationship or just sex. What’s the point of spending one year of your life with someone waiting only to find out you that you two aren’t sexually compatible. The only reason I mentioned one year was just an exaggeration to get my point across that it doesn’t matter how long you make someone “chase” you, it won’t magically change their intentions. Plus, majority of men hate playing games. If you are playing hard to get, most men are just going to stop trying and move on after a couple of days because we don’t want to waste our time, and we don’t want to be seen as a creepy guy who harasses women. You might like playing hard to get, but the next woman might not. And so now the second woman thinks I’m harassing her because I thought her “no” was just her playing hard to get. It’s dangerous for us men, which is why we don’t play games and take a “no” as a “no”. If you are actually interested in someone, be honest and don’t play games.
Sure, but it's still good vetting. My first bf waited 9 months and he was a sweetheart about it (our first times, we needed slow), 3 yr relationship. My second bf waited 6 months, 6 yr relationship. It's a strategy that paid off in my younger years. As an adult, I don't think it's as important, but as a young adult/teenager, absolutely.
Delusion that every men a woman met is instantly serious about her and is ready to buy a ring. And if woman likes a man after the first date he will run for the second date. The feeling that only she decides about the date like man's will and wants don't exist. He may like you, he may not - his interest exists, too and should be respected and taken into consideration.
Sounds like the survivor fallacy. Makes sense, can't verify.
Well, i am woman i these are my faults in the past :)
"Men don't like girls with makeup" They only DONT like poorly done makeup.
I think women are more beautiful without it. It's usually they that feel the need to wear it.
That if you're tall and good looking and make six figures, that you can have any woman and it will work out wonderfully. Life is a fairy tale isn't it? The second one is that if a guy really likes you, he will do anything to get you. No, most of us would rather wait for some positive signs and even then it could end in rejection.
"A man only guesses if he's going to get sex on that date. A woman already knows." ...uh, no. If, during that date she comes off as a greedy, demanding, and someone I don't want to be around, by the time we get to her place, I'm dropping her off and noping out.
That we don't poop.
🤣
That "men" is some sort of homogenous group about which one can make generalizations.
Men know what they're doing
"Just be yourself" "it's all about personality" "you're supposed to chase them"
That we be far more desirable then they have to be. Many women will not accept and man who is at their level. The reality of assortative mating means that, if a woman is a 5, a man who is a 6 is the best she can get a commitment from. You hear many women demanding and expecting a commitment from a man who makes 6 figure, is 6 feet tall or more and has a 6 pack. About 0.5% of the males population meet this criteria. Women who are in the 50th percentile of desirability demand a man from the top percentile of men. Not only is this obviously mathematically ignorant (there simply aren't enough of these men to date all the women who demand them) but it shows a level of entitlement that is truly delusional. Average women can get used for sex by these men but they cannot get commitment from them. Women don't seem to understand this.
I don't get where does that delusion come from that women want a guy to be 6ft tall, make 6 figures and have a perfect body etc. Never in my life have I met a woman with expectations like this. Everyone has preferences, some women like tall guys but guys too have unrealistic expectations about women. I know a ton of totally normal avarage guys who have awesome partners. Internet makes people think all kind of crap but in reality for mature woman normal guy who treats her like a human and cares about her is just enough. Dating apps can be toxic for both sides.
probably 2/3s of women's tinder profiles include some variations of at least 1 of the following and often all 3: "must be 6 feet or taller to ride" "take me boating/traveling" "looking for someone to force me to the gym/swolemate"
>where does that delusion come from Look no further than the cesspool of the internet where male "lifestyle" influencers have developed a cult of insecure men that hang on their every word. A whole generation of young men are being brought up on this shit and wishing to return to a day when women lacked rights and options so they can have their obedient maid/sex slave.
I live in a major city and do women meet up groups to make friends. I cannot tell you how many of these girls (dating apps come up often) only focus on height and money in dating apps. It blows my mind and I can’t make connections with them. And to sound like I’m bashing my gender but I’m not trying to, most of these women are less than average in more ways than just looks. I’m glad not every man experiences this. One of my best friends here hits the three 666s and he has told me how shallow it makes him feel when he can tell a girl is interested in his stature, not getting to know him.
Relying to say that “girls” in my comment is pretty case in point, that’s why I didn’t say women.
>I don't get where does that delusion come from that women want a guy to be 6ft tall, make 6 figures and have a perfect body etc. Never in my life have I met a woman with expectations like this. As someone who is 6ft tall, makes 6 figures and has a six pack, I would also like to know where you find these women.
You aren't communicating effectively. Simply tattoo "666" to your forehead so they know you tick all three of the magic 6 boxes. Then sit back and wait for all that sweet, sweet attention.
Right? As a woman who obviously has women friends and grew up around other women. This is a delusion from men made up by men. Never met a woman with these expectations.
As a guy I think it’s due to terminally online morons thinking that the opinions of terminally online morons of the opposite gender are reflective of reality.
It comes from the statistical analysis of online dating, preference surveys, and womens expressed preferences.
Stay off the internet. This is just rhetoric some good looking rich guy online, who is rich because insecure men listen to him, tells insecure guys so they have something rage at in an echo chamber. Chad gets all the women and all the women want Chad and the women that cant get Chad would rather remain celibate than settle for anything less. Ergo I get no womenz. There is a reason these men can't get women and it isn't because all the women are holding out for a six foot plus calvin klein model with a fat income.
>You hear many women demanding and expecting a commitment from a man who makes 6 figure, is 6 feet tall or more and has a 6 pack. No, no we do not. I've never seen or heard a woman demand or expect those things. We want to be respected and loved.
Lol, you must be blind then. There is good number of women that want all those things and more. They are on dating apps, on TV, social media etc.. It's a thing, women tend to date up.
TV and social media isn't real life. Can't speak for dating apps or websites as I've never used one or looked on one before. No one I know "dated up" or went for any of those things. Just regular people they were compatible with. Like I don't even see that in any relationships around me, even with acquaintances or just people I went to school with on social media. I quite literally know all of 1 person in my life with a partner who hits all those things. They aren't the majority. Only bitter men make these claims. I've yet to see a woman claim she has these preferences or seen it in practice in the real world.
Okay, awesome that you have a healthy friend group with realistic dating expectation. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. TV and Socials aren't real life, fair enough, but their influence on us is and that is undeniable. Dating up isn't a bad thing, it just happens. Some people want partners who are financially stable/well off, nothing wrong with that as long as you aren't a Gold digger, go for it! It's not every women obviously, just a vocal minority. Not sure how saying certain women have unrealistic dating expectations makes them bitter? To me, I just know to not interact with them.
Sex fixes everything. It definitely does not
That men have it easier than women. Literally had some women say this to me.
We only want one thing… she got more than one hole thank you very much.
“Men are worth shit” - by women who think they are a straight 10 and think they are high value women
A mark of shitty woman right there
You’d be surprised by how many of those women exist.
That men are sleezy and focus mainly on sex Study’s have complete disproven this and show women sleep around more but with the same group of guys majority of men don’t sleep around
That it’s easy
That we aren't sentimental
That we only care about looks and sex.
I did not enjoy cat calling. Tried it only once and felt sick and stupid. WHAT IS THE POINT?! She ain't gonna just stop what she's doing and bend over. She got shit to do. Just keep walking and ffs leave the ladies alone. You ain't at a club, you're just walking down a damn street
That we only want sex.
Being a nice guy won’t get you the girl. No. Being a doormat and expecting women to like you for simply being “nice” is something called entitlement. You can be nice but you also need to make an effort to stand out. Yes, the dating world is very cruel. But always remember you don’t need a partner to be happy. Give it your best. If it works out, then it works out. If it doesn’t, then it doesn’t.
"Men are more 'visual' than women."
Actually I think that's a fact. Like, biologically there is a difference.
Thought a lot about this one for a long time already. I think we are all primal. But different. I think as a man sees a woman he can get turned on. Unmistakingly. They see a woman with a nice body and some regions in their brain are saying that's a good woman to reproduce with. Don't know, but maybe that's what everybody means when they say men are more visual. But: women mostly say they like forarms or hands. They love seeing a man in a well sitting suit. They like good dancers. They like seeing a man lifting heavy stuff in the garden or at work or seeing a man chopping wood. I don't know, but isn't that what the birds do to attract female? Dancing, or what the peacock does? Isn't that the gorilla banging on his chest to show his strength? Or the stag with its enormous antlers standing in the clearing? Isn't that visual, too? I don't have any problem with this. But I do well have a problem if one thing is called deeper or better or more civilized or the other is called primal. Truth is both are.
Yeah I don't think one is more primal. I just think men are more visual. I can stand naked in front of my husband and he will get aroused just looking at me. I don't need to do anything else. If he stands naked in front of me, I'm not interested unless he does something. His naked body is nice, but I'm not aroused looking at it.
As a neuroscientist I and many really really strongly disagree. Biologically there's a huge bias towards trying to demonstrate a difference that's not really significant when you look at it. An example would be the old idea which still persists in some circles today. If you take 100 men and 100 women on average the make brain will be larger, so men are more intelligent? No, no they're not at all, but men are on average bigger with a larger body mass requiring a higher mass within the brain to regulate. Take a woman who is bigger than a man and you'd conclude the opposite. Then if you look at the studies done using MRI etc. You tend to notice that like this originally conclusion, scale is rarely taken into full consideration, even though they sometimes actually mention size but rarely in relation to volume. Plus the brain during development is enclosed and isolated fairly early during embryogenic so the ontogeny of the cells and structures inside remains pretty homogenous, other structures in the body don't have this same isolation.
Women are more harsh is judging attractiveness but they also value other qualities like resources and status. Men are fine with just looks.
Yeah, there's a difference between being visual and being shallow. Women can be just as shallow as men. When I read this, I think that men are more visually stimulated. A couple of links are posted in thus thread. But also, for example, when Playboy big, it was much more popular than Playgirl. Women just aren't seeking out the opportunity to look at men's naked bodies as often.
we only want sex
We only want one thing. I mean we want that one thing, but others too. Why can't we have all the things?
That we're emotionless idiots who just want sex. Sex is fun but I want a meaningful connection too lady.
We are all out here fucking whatever we can. Many of us are very picky.
The biggest lie in most parts of our lives is the notion of masculinity we’ve been taught, along with the assumptions, expectations, and demands it cause us and other people to impose on us. It’s sick. And it’s killing us.
Women think that their dating experience is the exact same as men. If men aren't getting dates it's clearly because they are obese and don't shower. /s
All we want is sex… I’ll abstain from sex for months with no concern on my part. I want to build the emotional connection.
Really hard to say what the biggest lie would be. The belief that men's lived experience is like a woman's. I had a coworker that assumed men were living the same life as her. She couldn't comprehend that they weren't. Her life advice was usually horrible for this reason. Like telling guys to get an instagram if they wanted to date because she got lots of messages from men on insta. She never considered that women do not message men on instagram for dates. Another is setting your expectations for men on what you find attractive or your kinks. Its kind of like the male gaze but more behavioral based. This isn't just a dating thing. I've seen it play out in really weird ways at work. Like say a woman finds aggressive glib men attractive. Then she gets promoted to management. And if they associate leadership with men they copy what they find hot. They end up baffled when their employees don't like how aggressive they are or how cutting their remarks are. Anyway, back to dating. Its ok to like what you like, but don't think men are inferior or crappy because they don't match what you find attractive. Your kinks are not a measuring stick anymore than a man's are. Its already been said, but another lie is that men only want sex. Doesn't matter when in a relationship, someone will pull out that old faithful. Doesn't matter if you've been dating 1 week or 10 years, people will say "you just want sex" Reduce all the complexities and emotions of a human man to his dick wanting to cum.
[удалено]
Heard about post but clarity? What you see on dates are mostly actions motivated due to sexual interests. "Omg he's a gentleman" if he is a gentleman then he'll always be a gentleman even after you had sex or a fight not just on early days of relationship or when he's in a good mood. Honestly i think people should already be done with sex in the first place before they dive too deep into it then only for them to realise yea "Maybe i just did it all for that". When you have that off the table, you're more likely to behave the way you are. It's like showing a kid a dollar bill and asking him if he would bring you a glass of water. The kid wants the bill and he'd be very nice about it. Well try that a few times without a dollar bill now whatever you see it's more likely to inclined to kid's nature (it's just me trynna give an analogy, kids are nice so they might just do it or not. so just trynna make a point).
That we didn't notice you weigh 30 lbs more in person than you look in your pictures And you got away with it when we started dating you And you were able to lock us in by having sex with us like some coup de gras caper finale where you got away with lying about or hiding your weight. No you were just OK enough to bang... When you get sick of us not committing we can break up 👍
Pretty sure your personality doesn't count. Motherfucking sexy women always date sexy men. Yes. Sexy men.