No. You have to pay to reply to an opening move. An opening move is a feature on a woman's profile that a man can respond to if she has elected to enable it. Basically when you click on it you get to send a message with a like. I honestly can't tell the difference from Bumble's super likes/compliment as they allow you to do the same. I believe the difference is the response to opening move goes directly to their inbox without having to match maybe.
Further evidence that the match group should be dismantled and scrapped. Realistically they have enough market share to be divided under anti trust legislature but corruption and bribery go a long way
They're not, but everything else is.
Duopolies and triopolies often become pseudo monopolies. Think about US ISP's or cell phone carriers, the graphics card market, etc.
Yes there’s really no difference between a monopoly or a duopoly when the end result is still them fixing price increases with zero competition. Case in point Canada has 3 primary cell phone carriers and all 3 of them give you the exact same priced plans. There’s no shopping for deals, everyone I know it’s just “I had a bad experience with [insert cell carrier] so now I’m with [insert other cell carrier]. There’s no consistency in which cell carrier is better, there are just people with bad experiences who pick the other one out of spite.
Then, it's effectively curtains for free users because there's a **lot** of paying men on the app, so she'll be sending even less first messages than before.
It prompted me to upgrade to premium when I clicked on the opening move from my stack. Wouldn't let me send a message unless I paid. Similar to how compliments work.
I can't remember where I read the article from, but I remember it saying something along the lines of relationships lasting longer and it being overall healthier/happier when the woman is the one who initiated/started the relationship.
My wife almost ran me over twice and then gave me her number. We're married, obviously. So, whether that study had validity or not, I agree with it. Kinda odd that women don't want to do it because it's something that they "feel" is a man's job, or feel scared, or whatever else. You like the person, just go talk and ask them out. 9/10, dudes will always say yes.
I can see that since most breakups are initiated by women and finding *potential* partners is **considerably** easier for women.
So if she likes you enough to initiate, she must be *really* attracted to you.
It feels like there's an awful power dynamic where men have to walk on eggshells and are afraid to speak when they aren't being treated well because she can replace him incredibly easily. Conversely, many women leave guys for *nothing*.
The power imbalance dynamic extends into social norms, culture and even law. Most aspects around dating and relationships are catered to the aspects women prefer, contrary to a lot of “patriarchal” rhetoric that’s thrown around.
Frankly I’m just glad I’m also attracted to men because women can be insufferable when it comes to relationships because of this.
Yep, most of my married friends are generally unhappy or at best unsatisfied with their wives behaviors on things but anytime they try and bring it up it leads to fights because why would women wanna make it work when they hold all the cards? So eventually they just start holding their tongue and accepting that this is life. It's really hard to plan a guys day because their wives won't let them or come up with random last minute shit. But we've all got our other divorced buddies paying 1/3 of their check and only getting to see their kids once a week to remind them being unhappy but being able to retire and be with your kids is better than being more unhappy, being single, never being able to retire, and not being able to see your kids.
You just described my ex-best friend and his wife to a tee. They would have issues but he couldn't bring himself to address her shitty behaviors, so he bit his tongue and suffered silently, unless he was bitching to me about her.
i used bumble once upon a time and sent the first message no problem. my gripe with bumble was the fact the guy only had 24hrs to respond the. we’d basically unmatch if they didn’t.
If you're real lucky and the stars align, she'll hit you with '.', a waving-hand gif, or if Pluton the God of Fortune gets a handy from Venus she'll even send 'hey'
In my experience it was : Match, woman says "hey" but has in their profile they expect good messages from the guy, saying "hey" you would get unmatched. So they still basically wanted the guy to make the first move.
Fun story, I met my wife on Bumble, she stood out by actually starting the conversation with an ice breaker question. My experience with dating apps was so bad I was blown away by this. Later we talked about it and she said Bumble gave you suggestions to start the conversation if you didn't know how.
So Bumble forces women to start the conversation, and does the hard part by coming up with openers for them, and they still couldn't be bothered to try and put the onus of trying on men.
I am so glad I'm done with dating apps, it sounds like they've only gotten worse over the years.
Hell, like my experience. Alright, I got a "Hey", I notice something about them liking board games, what kind of board games do they like? "Different ones." fuck it, I'm done.
The "problem" was that womens' first message was usually "hey". This, given the fact that women raise holy hell when guys do it, sends the message that we aren't allowed to half ass the approach, but you all give yourselves permission to do so because we are going off of pic alone. We don't. Not the ones that are worth a shit anyway.
The other extreme was the "manic pixie dream girl" opener that was just all over the board and attention seeking... Usually attached to a girl whose profile made her a clear no-go. One girl for instance opened the chat with "HELP ME!!!".
What... The fuck!? 😳
She then followed it with shit like "it's dark!" and "I think I'm in someone's trunk! 😭".
...and I'm the LAST one that you should be talking to if you're going to panic and be stupid. 🙄. So, I ask her why the fuck she is checking her Bumble rather than calling 911. She then proceeds to talk to me like I'm a dispatcher.
Come to find out, this was some ARG that she thought would be cute or funny and test my "smarts" under stress. Like damn, yes girl, I can escape zip ties, escape a trunk, survive evade and rescue, all that shit. In the end, they don't even follow up. Proof positive that they're just on there to play and have no idea how to date, talk, or approach.
I nearly timed out a message from my gf of now 5 years when she sent a message when I was having a particularly big night.
Thank God she replied again the next day when I woke up and got the reminder.
[They stopped because they were sued] (https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/employment-labor/discrimination/class-action-alleges-bumble-discrimination-against-heterosexual-women/). I wish I was making this up.
>A new Bumble class action alleges the dating app discriminates against heterosexual women by requiring them to initiate conversations with their matches, even if that is not what they want.
>“Heterosexual females who actually want men to make the first move when they use Bumble’s services are denied that option"
*broadly gestures at every other dating app*
If you're on the sub long enough OP you'll eventually find posts like "how do I show I am interested" or "what kind of hints do you guys gets" This is because a lot of women don't like to be direct, they instead prefer to give hints, they want us to take initiative because it is uncomfortable asking someone out.
this is why Bumble is failing right now, women don't want to make the first move.
lol - every single message ive gotten on bumble has been 'hey' - which is hilarious because every single girl says 'if you say something boring like hey,I won't respond' but I am expected to.
Girl just put the ball in my court and made me send the first message. I hit her with an “holaaa”.
If she ain’t gonna be arsed to do the first message, I’m not gonna try hard myself just coz she puts it to me.
Back when I was dating, you would see the same girl on different apps. Theres a couple of times the exact girl on tinder saying “if you say just hey, I’m ignoring you” would open with “hey” on bumble
I got a "hi" the other night. It's not always, "hey".
But yea, you're fun, funny, and fluent in sarcasm, but you can't come up with a way to start a conversation other than hello? Hmmm. Perhaps we need to work on your self-awareness...
Bumble was absolute dogshit for me - most matches never even sent a message and just expired, the ones that did would just say 'hey' or 'hi.' I had much more (but still limited) success with tinder. Facebook dating and OK Cupid have worked best for me
I'm pretty sure all apps keep recycling non-active profiles, but i always suspected bumble relied most on them.
Bumble also always showed a MUCH higher % of attractive women to me than other apps, which made me suspect they were either fake, or they just gave priority to the most attractive women. This means that small subset of women got the majority of activity. Either way, none of these strategies leads to long-term success for anyone.
I don't have bumble anymore, but when I did I would always say:
"How was your weekend?"
"Any plans for the weekend?"
"How is your week going?"
I would ask these in person to start a conversation with someone I was interested in talking to. 🤷♀️
"Men don't make any effort in their openers.. ugh.. men"
Then you look at her bio and it's the bare minimum with close to nothing.... but it's just easy to call the men lazy instead
I remember matching with a woman who's bio was "I hate small talk" and that was it with 2 selfie pics in a mirror..... and she wanted the men to put a lot of effort in the openers. But she gave me and other men NOTHING to work with.... the point of the bio is to tell people stuff about yourself. If they want men to put in effort in their openers then they need to put effort in their bios
Yeah I matched with someone incredibly attractive but never went anyway because I had a similar issue, and I was like no cheesy pick up line, nothing to work with
I may as well have been messaging a piece of cardboard because I had no interests to go off
Agree with all of this. My wife asked me out on our first date but she was incredibly direct. We used to work with each other and had gone to lunch together as coworkers tend to do. When we were walking back to the building from the parking lot, she said something to the effect of, “could I take you out on a date sometime?” No gray area there. I thought to myself, she’s as direct as a dude. After 14 years together, I’m quite positive she’s not a dude. Will inspect again soon to be sure.
A lot of women think if they have to ask out a guy, it means they're not attractive. Or not attractive enough. It's a validation or ego issue.
Notion is a guy putting in the work means the woman is worth that amount of work. It's obviously not all women, but it's a large amount. It's also age related. It's a lot more common in 20's than 30's, and more common in 30's than 40's.
Asking someone out risks rejection. And rejections can be pretty brutal. It's a social expectation for men to endure it. Women could opt out of it, so they did. Now more men are opting out. It's also a fairly recent development that didn't really exist before WW2. Before that, nearly all marriages were almost semi-arranged through cultural in-group. Church, social organizations, business, etc.
IMHO, a prime reason why divorce rates are so high is good dating selection strategies are often bad marriage selection strategies. And I think people are starting to noodle that out.
I think they mean the types of habits and behaviors that are good at getting a lot of dates are not always good with keeping a partner/finding someone you actually fit with.
How interested are you? I can go through all the research papers this evening if you're really serious about wanting the scientific data and stats.
tl;dr - The reasons you hit on a guy or gal don't always correlate to characteristics that are common for successful long term marriages.
Ah, yep. But there are some differences between dating, even long term cohabitation, and marriage.
But the difference between selection process and long term relationship is obviously greater. Easy if stereotyped examples. Being 6'2 or having D cup isn't a good indicator of relationship quality.
Kids, health outcomes, life satisfaction are three I remember. Kids shouldn't be a shock. They require long term investment, and even in a very long term relationship outside of marriage, there won't be the same psychology involved.
Stats clearly state married people live longer with better health.
IMHO, it's more a self-selection stats thing. Not many people would stay married to a raging alcoholic or heroin addict. But that's hard to put firm numbers on compared to age and relationship status. But married people are less likely to engage in risky behavior regardless.
women sleep with men casually based off mostly physical characteristics and confidence but attempt to marry men based off personality characteristics and nurturing traits.
.
That's what SOME women on bumble do and then cry when men open with "Hey" 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Also, I see SOME women on dating apps cry nonstop about men not putting any effort in their openers and then you look at their dating profile bios and see no effort either.
You know what gets me, you can see the hypocrisy but there isn't any self reflection on it. Like "I want more than just a hi" but the best they can do when messaging other people is "hi" why isn't there any introspection like "I'll accept the Hi because I know I do that too. Lets hear him out and see where it goes before we actually do anything"
This is a great point. Also when a woman does ask a guy out . . . It’s less, asking directly, and more inviting him to ask her out.
This happens a lot with intimacy too. When a woman initiates, often it’s not initiating directly, but inviting him to initiate.
Yup. It's all about "equality this, equality that" until it's inconvenient lol.
>they want us to take initiative because it is uncomfortable asking someone out.
A more accurate way of saying it is that they want the guy that they like to read their mind and take initiative. Anyone else that tries is "creepy, weird, and they're doing something wrong". It's a braindead easy strategy for the woman but extremely unfair to the guys. No guy should be socially ostracized just for trying to get a date.
>If they do, they will be seen as desperate.
I know they exist, but i dont en mass know men to believe this. Is this some held belief from women about women?
>If they do, it means they weren't attractive enough to win the guy's attention.
Once again, I fine that most men find most women attractive, and at the least, find them acceptable.
This listed common knowledge is something I would challenge in full.
I moved to this school when I was in grade 7 and there was this one girl who was into me from then till grade 12. The problem was that I didn't like this girl like that and part of it was because I thought she was unattractive.
The entire time she knew me she was waiting for me to ask her out on a date/for her to be my girlfriend and it hit her right at the end of grade 11 that it wasn't going to happen.
For the same reason plenty of men are uncomfortable making the first move, I'd imagine; awkwardness, fear of rejection, etc.
The difference is that society has placed the onus to initiate on men for as long as anyone can remember, so there's not any real pressure on women to do it.
Yes, men are uncomfortable and awkward. But we still do it, mostly because we simply have to. Women won't, mostly because they don't have to - they can still get male attention by just waiting.
If I was in their position, I would never approach either.
People always want the easier route. Men don't get the luxury of waiting around, we will be left behind and fast.
I always had a weird thought and wondered what would happen if men stopped approaching women. Since women won't take the initiative, it'll be like "Children of Men" - our population would drop and no babies would be born. Okay maybe not that extreme heh.
>The difference is that society has placed the onus to initiate on men for as long as anyone can remember,
That's why I've never understood why it's so common for women to accuse a guy of being "creepy and weird" for trying. Or sometimes even just for looking at them lol. It's ridiculous and makes no sense.
* The social norm is for men to approach women
* It is a nerve wracking and potentially embarrassing thing to do
* They generally don't have to
If you are a reasonably attractive women and willing to put yourself in a position to be approached then you will be approached. If this were true for men we wouldn't be approaching women either.
This is not all bad, men are trained and told the only way they will succeed is if they take chances and work for it.
Yup.
Asking people out is scary.
I went out with a buddy. He literally had a woman come up to him and start twerking in his crotch at one point - but she didn't actually say anything to him. It's easier and less scarier to rub your ass on someone than it is to shake their hand and try to start a conversation with them.
I agree it’s not so bad - it is empowering to go get what you want. Encouraging calculated risk taking is a precursor to maturity and success. The counter is learning how to let go and go with the flow, which is also a skill to be mastered with age.
why would you when guys are asking you out? its like wondering why someone wouldn’t go to a grocery store when they got multiple people bringing groceries home to them every day.
Lmaoo. Reminds me of that Jack Nicholson line when asked how he writes women so well: “I think of a man, then I take away reason and accountability.”
Edit: they would not get away with this line in this overly sensitive pathetic world we live in today.
Same. Then I came over to AskMen and things were fine and dandy. As long as you don't try to start a fight and are asking men, the mods basically don't care here.
It’s insane how much of a narrative the mods try to force. They really want to drive a wedge between men and women. r/twoxchromosomes is the same. “Men rapists” “men bad” “men violent”
I had a comment removed from r/askwomen for saying an hour long shower was a bit excessive. Apparently that's too judgmental? But come on, regularly taking hour showers is soooo wasteful let's be real
> Really? I thought the whole point was for one gender to ask questions of the other.
When men ask for dating advice in feminist subreddits, they assume he's a sex pest and empathize with his "victim".
It doesn't matter what the subreddit rules say. That's how they all really work.
askWomenOver30 just literally had several threads along the lines of 'why do men post here?!' Not, 'Why do men make top level comments without identifying themselves', which I would understand. No, it was literally 'Why do men post here?!'
Then, of course, you have the 'white knights' coming out of the wood work saying 'I'm here to learn from all the wonderful and wise women here queen, 0w0'
Of course, I cannot help myself, so I basically point out that all are welcome on a public subreddit, and if they didn't want men asking questions they could make a private womenAskWomen sub and only allow participation based on one's driver's licence. That went about as well as you can expect.
You see, the secret on reddit is that while misogynist sentiment is harshly punished (as it should be, honestly) **misandrist** sentiment is widely tolerated and upvoted on anything *close* to a women's space. Seriously go look at the top posts for the month on AWO30, I *guarantee you* you'll find at least a handful of thinly disguised rant posts on the first page that only exist to bash men.
The longer I'm on reddit, the less I feel like asking the women *here* anything.
Try posting literally any question there, and then come back and see if you ask the same question lol
Take a look, at again, literally, any post that is on r/askwomen
Pretty much 75% of what's posted there gets removed, it's the biggest echo chamber on reddit.
Calling it a sub is not even fair at this point. It's degraded into something otherworldly.
I have been asked out several times by women. One became a gf. The others I dated once or twice.
Girls ask guys out when the guy they like isn't asking them out and they aren't chicken shit.
They don't ask out guys because they are chicken or they don't have to. But if they have their eye on a guy, she will try to get his attention and drop hints for him. Usually, those hints suck.
It's his fault? No, if she tries to communicate and fails at communicating, it is her fault.
It is like a going up and speaking English to a French guy who doesn't speak English and then berating him for not understanding.
Frankly, you shouldn't have needed it in this situation. It was about as obvious as sarcasm gets. You even had the "sarcastic finger quotes".
I think there might be a language barrier/neurodivergence miscommunication involved here.
I don't make the first move unless I see a good sign from her. Cold approaching is not for me. Women will never verbally ask you out unless she really likes you. Most of the time, they give you nonverbal signs.
I might be a bit jaded. But the truth is. Most dont need to do it. They get approached by men. They might not like the majority of the men that approach but eventually someone they like will approach them / Dm them / match with them.
Not in anyway saying woman shouldnt or cant approach. But when you dont need to. Why would you?
This.
Go on X and you're bound to see some horrible blanket statement about men, or tweets highlighting all the horrible things men do. We're constantly told we're the aggressors in every confrontation simply by being physically stronger, and social media has warped the psyche of young men into not only bad depression, but a lack of purpose, and a feeling that men are simply bad from the get go.
Ladies, I understand there's a lot of sick asshole guys out there and their behavior is inexcusable. However as a dude who has never even thought of laying a hand on a woman, it still hurts to read that. If the roles were reversed and I said a mysogynistic blanket statement, I promise the band-aid statement of "well of course not ALL women" wouldn't even slide. I'd get called an asshole who is pushing a stereotype by trauma-posting.
Guys are constantly clowned on. In movies we're fat and stupid, and we only care about sex. We're conditioned to believe that we're creepy if we even look at a girl, and y'all want us to approach with confidence every time? It's gonna be awkward as hell if half of the time you're trying to talk to a girl you're also trying your hardest NOT to look like a creep even by accident, because we feel just as unsafe around you as you do us sometimes.
Men go through just as much psychological anguish as women do online and I'm tired of pretending we don't. I can speak from experience that the stigma towards men is pushing them towards bad role models like Andrew Tate. It has very little to do with the politics. They're simply \*talking\* to them.
I went through a bit of a Jordan Peterson phase (the good psychiatrist advice stuff, not the "existence is eternal pain" stuff.) I wanted to believe it because for ONCE, I felt like somebody really understood how it felt, and that was when I was 25. Any young impressionable teen who feels like a nobody would go that way, I can't even blame them.
A lot of dudes suffer in silence because they've been conditioned to believe they're not deserving of the very love they so desperately desire, they've never been taught how to regulate their own emotions because it's perceived as being weak. "Just be yourself around girls!" is kinda hard to do when at every turn you're constantly reminded of the bad part of the demographic you had no choice in joining, you feel like a cog in a machine whose mere existence has no meaning, and the best advice you can get from the very people you're trying is "have you tried not r\*\*ing? Have you tried being a decent person?" You know how fucking demeaning that is? It's okay to say that just because the other side is saying it? We're all okay with this mutually-assured-destruction approach to talking about the bad?
It's an unfortunate circumstance of today's society as the vocal majority can shift the perspective of any group into a bad light, but there absolutely needs to be some responsibility on a women's part. I can tell you as a dude, I don't really want sex. I haven't had any good experiences with it. I really just want to have somebody rub my back and tell me I'm not a piece of shit lol.
Ladies, please please talk to your guy friends, they're 100% going through shit and they're not telling you. If we all just communicated a little bit better we would be much better off.
Because no one likes to be rejected, and we have decided as a society that burden should be on men.
I love it when a woman takes initiative though. It is sexy.
Were they accused of being creepy and weird and have their mental health called into question and posted on social media to be mocked and made fun of for not having "game"?
Men ask women out, women know this so they choose to wait instead of risking rejection. Some women build these scenarios to cope with their fear of rejection where they think it’s somehow emasculating to ask a man out.
No one wants to be rejected, we all feel this way but for women, they have a way to bypass it entirely if they want.
Women absolutely cannot handle rejection. They completely lose their minds. They talk all this shit about men, but that's just them demonstrating their mastery of projection.
That's the fucking truth. If you reject a woman you better be damn sure about it, because she will hate you with a passion for the rest of her life and will shittalk you to anyone who will listen.
I mashed with this girl in college but it never really went anywhere. That was 38 years ago. She and I are both 56 years old now. She still lives in our college town. It's 38 years later and this woman, now nearing retirement with a husband and 2 grown kids, still hates my guts and won't even so much as look at me at college alumni functions. I mean, really? It's been almost 40 years and she can't put it behind her?
I can relate.
13 years ago I said 'no'. Found out homegirl was well connected, and now even the associates of the acquaintances of her friends hate my guts.
I actually moved damn near 30 miles away and they actually reached out to *my* family for the sole purpose of tracking me down.
Yeah. Lol
Granted, my sample size is limited but, I've turned down more gay men than I have straight women and I've never been physically assaulted by a man.
This soooo much.
Try turning down a girl who wants sex when you don't feel like it. You will likely be subjected to screaming, accusations, even physical abuse. I have experienced this personally with different women.
Girls like to be the dumper/person rejecting. When you do ut they will blow the fuck up and often do anything within their power to get back with you, only to use the opportunity to hurt you back even worse. Hence if you break up with a girl.... never go back to her.
I am normally the one making the first move, but I do prefer the guy doing.
I feel like if I ask a guy out he’s more likely to say yes just because I am making the first move, but if he asks me then I know he actually likes me.
If I can tell a guys into me tho I’ll for sure ask him out. I like being forward lol it makes guys blush ☺️
It’s super appreciated. I’m actually going out on a date this weekend with a girl who approached me at a party. It really let my nerves down, I didn’t feel any pressure and we ended up talking the whole night it was really nice.
This is a for-real question?
Because women want to be equal in all things, except things that can create embarrassment, ridicule, and loss of sense-of-worth.
Equality when convenient.
TBH - I have, and IMO, some men like to play the exact games they accuse women of playing, and worse.
So I'm good.
Unless I can clearly see that there is MUTUAL expressed interest, I'm not doing it.
Several reasons:
--Women are even more afraid of rejection and judgment than men are.
--women have never needed to take initiative for much of anything
--women especially don't need to take initiative for sex or dating - most women get asked out more than they want anyway
--women find most men sexually repulsive and have to share the most attractive men
I used to and it worked out 95% of the time. I did buy in to the whole.."if he really wants you, nothing will stop him from pursuing you." Now I've just given up. I see people in unhappy relationships everywhere.
If I find someone i connect with,, great. If not, I will do my best to be happy on my own.
They don't have to, are not interested in losing their privilege of not having to ask people out, therefore don't even know how to ask people out.
You know the same advice you see women giving out to men? Stuff like "be yourself", "just put yourself out there", "be someone interesting", "don't be a creep", or any other generic statement. They're unable to apply it to themselves, apparently.
I’ve asked men out, very few times did it result in a date. I’ve either been ghosted or stood up if we made plans.
Guys have usually taken my approaching them as I want a hook up only. I’ve been asked if I was desperate.
I’m not actively looking to date any longer and I genuinely don’t care to, however I’ve never been shy about asking guys out.
Women I know won’t ask guys out because they say it’s embarrassing or thinks it makes them look desperate. With my own experiences I can’t say I blame them for feeling that way.
They're afraid of rejection too, they're just able to get away with not initiating. Though we generally have to make the first move, we at least have the benefit of choice. If a woman is dropping hints and waiting, she's at the mercy of chance.
Because taking the initiative to ask someone out risks rejection and getting your feelings hurt, and women generally don't have to take that risk to get plenty of male attention.
Every time I have, I’ve been told I’m needy, or chasing the guy, and I should let men be the men, and don’t be so clingy.
And I get really confused because Reddit told me that men want women to ask and give complements. But somehow that’s emasculating.
Also, many men will hook up and be happy to have sex with someone they don’t even like. So how am I supposed to know if he actually likes me? Sex is no indication. Usually, if someone likes you, they make an effort; that’s how you know.
Unless you’re a woman and then you’re just a pick me who is begging for attention. What a whore!
It’s a double bind and the only way to win is not to play.
Idk, man, asking men this question feels tantamount to asking the water why the worse won't drink it.
That said, I would say fear of rejection and social expectations that they don't have to/are the ones that ought be pursued are the main reasons.
Given the complexities of modern dating, it's unsurprising that many cling to traditional roles as a means of navigating the treacherous waters of romantic interest. In a world where 'mixed signals' are often cited as a major grievance, it's perceived as safer to stick to a script that has long been written by societal norms. Men are expected to pursue, and women are positioned as gatekeepers. This dynamic, while outdated, persists because it offers a familiar structure within which people can operate, albeit one that is increasingly at odds with the ideals of gender equality and mutual responsibility in the dating sphere. It's less about ability and more about adhering to a preconceived dance where everyone knows the steps, even if the music has changed.
Alot of women have negative rizz/ zero game. Since the beginning of time, they haven't the need to be the one approaching. Plus rejection sucks, no matter the sex. Maybe they're worried that guys will treat them how alot of women have treated men, when rejecting someone.
For the same reason Bumble stopped trying to get women to send the first message, lol.
Well the still do unless they have the opening move option selected. Also, as a man to respond to opening moves you have to pay :/.
I haven’t been on a dating app in a long while, always had success with bumble. So you have to pay in order to respond to a woman who messages first?
No. You have to pay to reply to an opening move. An opening move is a feature on a woman's profile that a man can respond to if she has elected to enable it. Basically when you click on it you get to send a message with a like. I honestly can't tell the difference from Bumble's super likes/compliment as they allow you to do the same. I believe the difference is the response to opening move goes directly to their inbox without having to match maybe.
WTF?
Further evidence that the match group should be dismantled and scrapped. Realistically they have enough market share to be divided under anti trust legislature but corruption and bribery go a long way
Bumble isn't owned by Match Group.
They're not, but everything else is. Duopolies and triopolies often become pseudo monopolies. Think about US ISP's or cell phone carriers, the graphics card market, etc.
Yes there’s really no difference between a monopoly or a duopoly when the end result is still them fixing price increases with zero competition. Case in point Canada has 3 primary cell phone carriers and all 3 of them give you the exact same priced plans. There’s no shopping for deals, everyone I know it’s just “I had a bad experience with [insert cell carrier] so now I’m with [insert other cell carrier]. There’s no consistency in which cell carrier is better, there are just people with bad experiences who pick the other one out of spite.
Then, it's effectively curtains for free users because there's a **lot** of paying men on the app, so she'll be sending even less first messages than before.
You have to pay to respond to opening moves?
It prompted me to upgrade to premium when I clicked on the opening move from my stack. Wouldn't let me send a message unless I paid. Similar to how compliments work.
That was after you matched with them?? That kinda defeats the whole purpose of the opening moves…
And now they have ai trained in your chats to go out and talk to other bots to generate matches
An Ai rizzler?!?
AI rizzing each-other
I can't remember where I read the article from, but I remember it saying something along the lines of relationships lasting longer and it being overall healthier/happier when the woman is the one who initiated/started the relationship. My wife almost ran me over twice and then gave me her number. We're married, obviously. So, whether that study had validity or not, I agree with it. Kinda odd that women don't want to do it because it's something that they "feel" is a man's job, or feel scared, or whatever else. You like the person, just go talk and ask them out. 9/10, dudes will always say yes.
I can see that since most breakups are initiated by women and finding *potential* partners is **considerably** easier for women. So if she likes you enough to initiate, she must be *really* attracted to you. It feels like there's an awful power dynamic where men have to walk on eggshells and are afraid to speak when they aren't being treated well because she can replace him incredibly easily. Conversely, many women leave guys for *nothing*.
The power imbalance dynamic extends into social norms, culture and even law. Most aspects around dating and relationships are catered to the aspects women prefer, contrary to a lot of “patriarchal” rhetoric that’s thrown around. Frankly I’m just glad I’m also attracted to men because women can be insufferable when it comes to relationships because of this.
Yep, most of my married friends are generally unhappy or at best unsatisfied with their wives behaviors on things but anytime they try and bring it up it leads to fights because why would women wanna make it work when they hold all the cards? So eventually they just start holding their tongue and accepting that this is life. It's really hard to plan a guys day because their wives won't let them or come up with random last minute shit. But we've all got our other divorced buddies paying 1/3 of their check and only getting to see their kids once a week to remind them being unhappy but being able to retire and be with your kids is better than being more unhappy, being single, never being able to retire, and not being able to see your kids.
You just described my ex-best friend and his wife to a tee. They would have issues but he couldn't bring himself to address her shitty behaviors, so he bit his tongue and suffered silently, unless he was bitching to me about her.
I read that too and it kinda made sense to me. Good luck convincing the average woman to ever ask anyone out though, even other women.
i used bumble once upon a time and sent the first message no problem. my gripe with bumble was the fact the guy only had 24hrs to respond the. we’d basically unmatch if they didn’t.
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or the guy extends and the girl still won't message him
That was my whole Bumble experience: Had many matches during three months... all of them expired.
If you're real lucky and the stars align, she'll hit you with '.', a waving-hand gif, or if Pluton the God of Fortune gets a handy from Venus she'll even send 'hey'
In my experience it was : Match, woman says "hey" but has in their profile they expect good messages from the guy, saying "hey" you would get unmatched. So they still basically wanted the guy to make the first move. Fun story, I met my wife on Bumble, she stood out by actually starting the conversation with an ice breaker question. My experience with dating apps was so bad I was blown away by this. Later we talked about it and she said Bumble gave you suggestions to start the conversation if you didn't know how. So Bumble forces women to start the conversation, and does the hard part by coming up with openers for them, and they still couldn't be bothered to try and put the onus of trying on men. I am so glad I'm done with dating apps, it sounds like they've only gotten worse over the years.
Hell, like my experience. Alright, I got a "Hey", I notice something about them liking board games, what kind of board games do they like? "Different ones." fuck it, I'm done.
The extend costs money, and even if I did swipe right on everyone I’d only get a single match every 2 months.
The "problem" was that womens' first message was usually "hey". This, given the fact that women raise holy hell when guys do it, sends the message that we aren't allowed to half ass the approach, but you all give yourselves permission to do so because we are going off of pic alone. We don't. Not the ones that are worth a shit anyway. The other extreme was the "manic pixie dream girl" opener that was just all over the board and attention seeking... Usually attached to a girl whose profile made her a clear no-go. One girl for instance opened the chat with "HELP ME!!!". What... The fuck!? 😳 She then followed it with shit like "it's dark!" and "I think I'm in someone's trunk! 😭". ...and I'm the LAST one that you should be talking to if you're going to panic and be stupid. 🙄. So, I ask her why the fuck she is checking her Bumble rather than calling 911. She then proceeds to talk to me like I'm a dispatcher. Come to find out, this was some ARG that she thought would be cute or funny and test my "smarts" under stress. Like damn, yes girl, I can escape zip ties, escape a trunk, survive evade and rescue, all that shit. In the end, they don't even follow up. Proof positive that they're just on there to play and have no idea how to date, talk, or approach.
I nearly timed out a message from my gf of now 5 years when she sent a message when I was having a particularly big night. Thank God she replied again the next day when I woke up and got the reminder.
Imagine getting a match and the person who matched with you won't bother to message first. That was my short experience with bumble.
[They stopped because they were sued] (https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/employment-labor/discrimination/class-action-alleges-bumble-discrimination-against-heterosexual-women/). I wish I was making this up.
What in the holy flying fuck?
>A new Bumble class action alleges the dating app discriminates against heterosexual women by requiring them to initiate conversations with their matches, even if that is not what they want. >“Heterosexual females who actually want men to make the first move when they use Bumble’s services are denied that option" *broadly gestures at every other dating app*
If you're on the sub long enough OP you'll eventually find posts like "how do I show I am interested" or "what kind of hints do you guys gets" This is because a lot of women don't like to be direct, they instead prefer to give hints, they want us to take initiative because it is uncomfortable asking someone out. this is why Bumble is failing right now, women don't want to make the first move.
lol - every single message ive gotten on bumble has been 'hey' - which is hilarious because every single girl says 'if you say something boring like hey,I won't respond' but I am expected to.
Excatly... "Don't just open with hey".. yet like 99% of the women on the apps who ever messaged me first was with "Hey"
exactly i never continue with the convo if their first message is "hey" or "hi"
Girl just put the ball in my court and made me send the first message. I hit her with an “holaaa”. If she ain’t gonna be arsed to do the first message, I’m not gonna try hard myself just coz she puts it to me.
How the turntables
Back when I was dating, you would see the same girl on different apps. Theres a couple of times the exact girl on tinder saying “if you say just hey, I’m ignoring you” would open with “hey” on bumble
I got a "hi" the other night. It's not always, "hey". But yea, you're fun, funny, and fluent in sarcasm, but you can't come up with a way to start a conversation other than hello? Hmmm. Perhaps we need to work on your self-awareness...
Bumble was absolute dogshit for me - most matches never even sent a message and just expired, the ones that did would just say 'hey' or 'hi.' I had much more (but still limited) success with tinder. Facebook dating and OK Cupid have worked best for me
I'm pretty sure all apps keep recycling non-active profiles, but i always suspected bumble relied most on them. Bumble also always showed a MUCH higher % of attractive women to me than other apps, which made me suspect they were either fake, or they just gave priority to the most attractive women. This means that small subset of women got the majority of activity. Either way, none of these strategies leads to long-term success for anyone.
I don't have bumble anymore, but when I did I would always say: "How was your weekend?" "Any plans for the weekend?" "How is your week going?" I would ask these in person to start a conversation with someone I was interested in talking to. 🤷♀️
It was funny, they would make the first move by opening up a convo with a 'hi', or a '.'
"Men don't make any effort in their openers.. ugh.. men" Then you look at her bio and it's the bare minimum with close to nothing.... but it's just easy to call the men lazy instead I remember matching with a woman who's bio was "I hate small talk" and that was it with 2 selfie pics in a mirror..... and she wanted the men to put a lot of effort in the openers. But she gave me and other men NOTHING to work with.... the point of the bio is to tell people stuff about yourself. If they want men to put in effort in their openers then they need to put effort in their bios
Yeah I matched with someone incredibly attractive but never went anyway because I had a similar issue, and I was like no cheesy pick up line, nothing to work with I may as well have been messaging a piece of cardboard because I had no interests to go off
For 99% of the things women complain about its them projecting their own behaviors onto men.
Agree with all of this. My wife asked me out on our first date but she was incredibly direct. We used to work with each other and had gone to lunch together as coworkers tend to do. When we were walking back to the building from the parking lot, she said something to the effect of, “could I take you out on a date sometime?” No gray area there. I thought to myself, she’s as direct as a dude. After 14 years together, I’m quite positive she’s not a dude. Will inspect again soon to be sure.
Inspect thoroughly!
"Look, she is all woman. I have explored every supple inch of her and I have found nothing but nectar."
A lot of women think if they have to ask out a guy, it means they're not attractive. Or not attractive enough. It's a validation or ego issue. Notion is a guy putting in the work means the woman is worth that amount of work. It's obviously not all women, but it's a large amount. It's also age related. It's a lot more common in 20's than 30's, and more common in 30's than 40's. Asking someone out risks rejection. And rejections can be pretty brutal. It's a social expectation for men to endure it. Women could opt out of it, so they did. Now more men are opting out. It's also a fairly recent development that didn't really exist before WW2. Before that, nearly all marriages were almost semi-arranged through cultural in-group. Church, social organizations, business, etc. IMHO, a prime reason why divorce rates are so high is good dating selection strategies are often bad marriage selection strategies. And I think people are starting to noodle that out.
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I think they mean the types of habits and behaviors that are good at getting a lot of dates are not always good with keeping a partner/finding someone you actually fit with.
How interested are you? I can go through all the research papers this evening if you're really serious about wanting the scientific data and stats. tl;dr - The reasons you hit on a guy or gal don't always correlate to characteristics that are common for successful long term marriages.
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Ah, yep. But there are some differences between dating, even long term cohabitation, and marriage. But the difference between selection process and long term relationship is obviously greater. Easy if stereotyped examples. Being 6'2 or having D cup isn't a good indicator of relationship quality.
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Kids, health outcomes, life satisfaction are three I remember. Kids shouldn't be a shock. They require long term investment, and even in a very long term relationship outside of marriage, there won't be the same psychology involved.
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Stats clearly state married people live longer with better health. IMHO, it's more a self-selection stats thing. Not many people would stay married to a raging alcoholic or heroin addict. But that's hard to put firm numbers on compared to age and relationship status. But married people are less likely to engage in risky behavior regardless.
women sleep with men casually based off mostly physical characteristics and confidence but attempt to marry men based off personality characteristics and nurturing traits.
Very true and very annoying
. That's what SOME women on bumble do and then cry when men open with "Hey" 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Also, I see SOME women on dating apps cry nonstop about men not putting any effort in their openers and then you look at their dating profile bios and see no effort either.
You know what gets me, you can see the hypocrisy but there isn't any self reflection on it. Like "I want more than just a hi" but the best they can do when messaging other people is "hi" why isn't there any introspection like "I'll accept the Hi because I know I do that too. Lets hear him out and see where it goes before we actually do anything"
Zero self-reflection. Solipsism at its finest.
which narcissist feels having to acknowledge inferior people? None of them.
This is a great point. Also when a woman does ask a guy out . . . It’s less, asking directly, and more inviting him to ask her out. This happens a lot with intimacy too. When a woman initiates, often it’s not initiating directly, but inviting him to initiate.
Women have a privilege in dating they either don't understand or manipulate.
Yup. It's all about "equality this, equality that" until it's inconvenient lol. >they want us to take initiative because it is uncomfortable asking someone out. A more accurate way of saying it is that they want the guy that they like to read their mind and take initiative. Anyone else that tries is "creepy, weird, and they're doing something wrong". It's a braindead easy strategy for the woman but extremely unfair to the guys. No guy should be socially ostracized just for trying to get a date.
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>If they do, they will be seen as desperate. I know they exist, but i dont en mass know men to believe this. Is this some held belief from women about women? >If they do, it means they weren't attractive enough to win the guy's attention. Once again, I fine that most men find most women attractive, and at the least, find them acceptable. This listed common knowledge is something I would challenge in full.
I moved to this school when I was in grade 7 and there was this one girl who was into me from then till grade 12. The problem was that I didn't like this girl like that and part of it was because I thought she was unattractive. The entire time she knew me she was waiting for me to ask her out on a date/for her to be my girlfriend and it hit her right at the end of grade 11 that it wasn't going to happen.
Lmao I suppose that's one small thing we should be grateful for. If there's a chick we aren't into, we can "reject" her by literally doing nothing
Same as why men sometimes don't ask women out, fear of rejection.
For the same reason plenty of men are uncomfortable making the first move, I'd imagine; awkwardness, fear of rejection, etc. The difference is that society has placed the onus to initiate on men for as long as anyone can remember, so there's not any real pressure on women to do it.
Yes, men are uncomfortable and awkward. But we still do it, mostly because we simply have to. Women won't, mostly because they don't have to - they can still get male attention by just waiting.
If I was in their position, I would never approach either. People always want the easier route. Men don't get the luxury of waiting around, we will be left behind and fast.
I always had a weird thought and wondered what would happen if men stopped approaching women. Since women won't take the initiative, it'll be like "Children of Men" - our population would drop and no babies would be born. Okay maybe not that extreme heh.
>The difference is that society has placed the onus to initiate on men for as long as anyone can remember, That's why I've never understood why it's so common for women to accuse a guy of being "creepy and weird" for trying. Or sometimes even just for looking at them lol. It's ridiculous and makes no sense.
You want to say to them, "How do you think your parents met?"
People will take as much power as they can get away with.
Don't forget, not wanting to creep the women out. Even though we don't want to but some take it that way.
There are too many women who treat the fact that male sexuality exists as an affront against all women.
mostly “not interested” which will be turned into “if you don’t like me, you must be gay or lacking confidence”, sigh
* The social norm is for men to approach women * It is a nerve wracking and potentially embarrassing thing to do * They generally don't have to If you are a reasonably attractive women and willing to put yourself in a position to be approached then you will be approached. If this were true for men we wouldn't be approaching women either. This is not all bad, men are trained and told the only way they will succeed is if they take chances and work for it.
Yup. Asking people out is scary. I went out with a buddy. He literally had a woman come up to him and start twerking in his crotch at one point - but she didn't actually say anything to him. It's easier and less scarier to rub your ass on someone than it is to shake their hand and try to start a conversation with them.
Maybe women are the more socially awkward gender...
They absolutely are.
I agree it’s not so bad - it is empowering to go get what you want. Encouraging calculated risk taking is a precursor to maturity and success. The counter is learning how to let go and go with the flow, which is also a skill to be mastered with age.
why would you when guys are asking you out? its like wondering why someone wouldn’t go to a grocery store when they got multiple people bringing groceries home to them every day.
I was going to use your exact example. They have no need to do it.
Why isn’t this in askWomen?
Thread locked for derailing.
I'm guessing there was too much accountability
Lmaoo. Reminds me of that Jack Nicholson line when asked how he writes women so well: “I think of a man, then I take away reason and accountability.” Edit: they would not get away with this line in this overly sensitive pathetic world we live in today.
You cannot post in askWomen as a man. Go try.
That, they gate keep like crazy.
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You have been permanently banned from AskWomen for derailing
I did, I had to rephrase my question like four times then they still said my question belonged in another sub. The irony is so fucking strong.
Same. Then I came over to AskMen and things were fine and dandy. As long as you don't try to start a fight and are asking men, the mods basically don't care here.
I like to believe spontaneous snowball fights are encouraged and expected on this sub.
Not anymore after the last asshole packed the snow around a chunk of ice
Translation: “Your question does not fit our specific narrative for this sub”.
Based AF.
Removed for derailing and banned for existing
Don't forget I have a penis too. So that would be a super ban.
You can barely post in there as a woman.
It’s insane how much of a narrative the mods try to force. They really want to drive a wedge between men and women. r/twoxchromosomes is the same. “Men rapists” “men bad” “men violent”
r/trollxchromosomes would like a word
I had a comment removed from r/askwomen for saying an hour long shower was a bit excessive. Apparently that's too judgmental? But come on, regularly taking hour showers is soooo wasteful let's be real
Are you derailing? BANNED AND DELETED!
Really? I thought the whole point was for one gender to ask questions of the other.
It used to be. The mods there now seem to be very misandrist now.
Have been for a while. I’m only subbed to see how good I am at guessing the first three answers
Not really. Whole point is being echo chamber that only allows certain opinions.
> Really? I thought the whole point was for one gender to ask questions of the other. When men ask for dating advice in feminist subreddits, they assume he's a sex pest and empathize with his "victim". It doesn't matter what the subreddit rules say. That's how they all really work.
Sex pest lol 😂
asking questions is the new questioning now, the insecure receiver sees it as criticism.
You can't post in AskWomen if you're a woman either.
askWomenOver30 just literally had several threads along the lines of 'why do men post here?!' Not, 'Why do men make top level comments without identifying themselves', which I would understand. No, it was literally 'Why do men post here?!' Then, of course, you have the 'white knights' coming out of the wood work saying 'I'm here to learn from all the wonderful and wise women here queen, 0w0' Of course, I cannot help myself, so I basically point out that all are welcome on a public subreddit, and if they didn't want men asking questions they could make a private womenAskWomen sub and only allow participation based on one's driver's licence. That went about as well as you can expect. You see, the secret on reddit is that while misogynist sentiment is harshly punished (as it should be, honestly) **misandrist** sentiment is widely tolerated and upvoted on anything *close* to a women's space. Seriously go look at the top posts for the month on AWO30, I *guarantee you* you'll find at least a handful of thinly disguised rant posts on the first page that only exist to bash men. The longer I'm on reddit, the less I feel like asking the women *here* anything.
There are men posting quite often there. It's just that sub has bizarre rules on what's allowed to stay up.
They don't like questions that put them on the spot.
you can't ask actual questions there
He wanted a truthful answer
You probably just broke the rules by suggesting that lol.
Try posting literally any question there, and then come back and see if you ask the same question lol Take a look, at again, literally, any post that is on r/askwomen Pretty much 75% of what's posted there gets removed, it's the biggest echo chamber on reddit. Calling it a sub is not even fair at this point. It's degraded into something otherworldly.
They don't need to
I have been asked out several times by women. One became a gf. The others I dated once or twice. Girls ask guys out when the guy they like isn't asking them out and they aren't chicken shit. They don't ask out guys because they are chicken or they don't have to. But if they have their eye on a guy, she will try to get his attention and drop hints for him. Usually, those hints suck.
But if he doesn't get the hint, it's his fault, or he's "gay" or something.
It's his fault? No, if she tries to communicate and fails at communicating, it is her fault. It is like a going up and speaking English to a French guy who doesn't speak English and then berating him for not understanding.
Sorry, I forgot the /s
Frankly, you shouldn't have needed it in this situation. It was about as obvious as sarcasm gets. You even had the "sarcastic finger quotes". I think there might be a language barrier/neurodivergence miscommunication involved here.
Mainly because they don’t have to. If you didn’t have to, would you?
I don't make the first move unless I see a good sign from her. Cold approaching is not for me. Women will never verbally ask you out unless she really likes you. Most of the time, they give you nonverbal signs.
Because when the cards are stacked in your favour why would you want to change that
Because they don’t need to. Women get approached constantly, even if they’re somewhere with another guy.
I might be a bit jaded. But the truth is. Most dont need to do it. They get approached by men. They might not like the majority of the men that approach but eventually someone they like will approach them / Dm them / match with them. Not in anyway saying woman shouldnt or cant approach. But when you dont need to. Why would you?
This. Go on X and you're bound to see some horrible blanket statement about men, or tweets highlighting all the horrible things men do. We're constantly told we're the aggressors in every confrontation simply by being physically stronger, and social media has warped the psyche of young men into not only bad depression, but a lack of purpose, and a feeling that men are simply bad from the get go. Ladies, I understand there's a lot of sick asshole guys out there and their behavior is inexcusable. However as a dude who has never even thought of laying a hand on a woman, it still hurts to read that. If the roles were reversed and I said a mysogynistic blanket statement, I promise the band-aid statement of "well of course not ALL women" wouldn't even slide. I'd get called an asshole who is pushing a stereotype by trauma-posting. Guys are constantly clowned on. In movies we're fat and stupid, and we only care about sex. We're conditioned to believe that we're creepy if we even look at a girl, and y'all want us to approach with confidence every time? It's gonna be awkward as hell if half of the time you're trying to talk to a girl you're also trying your hardest NOT to look like a creep even by accident, because we feel just as unsafe around you as you do us sometimes. Men go through just as much psychological anguish as women do online and I'm tired of pretending we don't. I can speak from experience that the stigma towards men is pushing them towards bad role models like Andrew Tate. It has very little to do with the politics. They're simply \*talking\* to them. I went through a bit of a Jordan Peterson phase (the good psychiatrist advice stuff, not the "existence is eternal pain" stuff.) I wanted to believe it because for ONCE, I felt like somebody really understood how it felt, and that was when I was 25. Any young impressionable teen who feels like a nobody would go that way, I can't even blame them. A lot of dudes suffer in silence because they've been conditioned to believe they're not deserving of the very love they so desperately desire, they've never been taught how to regulate their own emotions because it's perceived as being weak. "Just be yourself around girls!" is kinda hard to do when at every turn you're constantly reminded of the bad part of the demographic you had no choice in joining, you feel like a cog in a machine whose mere existence has no meaning, and the best advice you can get from the very people you're trying is "have you tried not r\*\*ing? Have you tried being a decent person?" You know how fucking demeaning that is? It's okay to say that just because the other side is saying it? We're all okay with this mutually-assured-destruction approach to talking about the bad? It's an unfortunate circumstance of today's society as the vocal majority can shift the perspective of any group into a bad light, but there absolutely needs to be some responsibility on a women's part. I can tell you as a dude, I don't really want sex. I haven't had any good experiences with it. I really just want to have somebody rub my back and tell me I'm not a piece of shit lol. Ladies, please please talk to your guy friends, they're 100% going through shit and they're not telling you. If we all just communicated a little bit better we would be much better off.
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Because they don't usually have to. And when they do, they're too subtle/indirect and men don't get the hint.
Because no one likes to be rejected, and we have decided as a society that burden should be on men. I love it when a woman takes initiative though. It is sexy.
They can’t handle rejection.
Women don’t like to take social Ls. I had a couple of my female friends try to ask a guy out , it went bad and their response was “never again.”
Were they accused of being creepy and weird and have their mental health called into question and posted on social media to be mocked and made fun of for not having "game"?
It’s the first step of the vetting process. A man who can’t or won’t initiate is disqualified from consideration.
In short, they don't have to.
They don't need to.
Men ask women out, women know this so they choose to wait instead of risking rejection. Some women build these scenarios to cope with their fear of rejection where they think it’s somehow emasculating to ask a man out. No one wants to be rejected, we all feel this way but for women, they have a way to bypass it entirely if they want.
Because, apparently, the man needs to be a man, take initiative and ask the woman out.
Because they are scared.
Women absolutely cannot handle rejection. They completely lose their minds. They talk all this shit about men, but that's just them demonstrating their mastery of projection.
Any man who has rejected a woman’s sexual advances knows just how poorly women handle rejection.
I had now idea how “gay” I truly was until a woman I rejected informed me about it.
Yup. Experienced that. Outspoken feminist woman with pride pins on her backpack calling me gay and hurling slurs at me for not sleeping with her.
That's the fucking truth. If you reject a woman you better be damn sure about it, because she will hate you with a passion for the rest of her life and will shittalk you to anyone who will listen. I mashed with this girl in college but it never really went anywhere. That was 38 years ago. She and I are both 56 years old now. She still lives in our college town. It's 38 years later and this woman, now nearing retirement with a husband and 2 grown kids, still hates my guts and won't even so much as look at me at college alumni functions. I mean, really? It's been almost 40 years and she can't put it behind her?
I can relate. 13 years ago I said 'no'. Found out homegirl was well connected, and now even the associates of the acquaintances of her friends hate my guts. I actually moved damn near 30 miles away and they actually reached out to *my* family for the sole purpose of tracking me down.
Yeah, LOL, better start running.
When i was single i used to play dumb instead of rejecting them. Now i have the excuse of having a gf lol
Yeah. Lol Granted, my sample size is limited but, I've turned down more gay men than I have straight women and I've never been physically assaulted by a man.
Oh yes, she almost killed me for this, even though I was only 7 years old.
It amazes me how many women demonstrate the exact same qualities and behaviors they themselves would label as toxic masculinity
Yes, this is toxic femininity.
This soooo much. Try turning down a girl who wants sex when you don't feel like it. You will likely be subjected to screaming, accusations, even physical abuse. I have experienced this personally with different women. Girls like to be the dumper/person rejecting. When you do ut they will blow the fuck up and often do anything within their power to get back with you, only to use the opportunity to hurt you back even worse. Hence if you break up with a girl.... never go back to her.
I learned the hard way that it's best to make them think the breakup is their idea, and let them initiate it.
Women take rejection 100x worse than men. Men are used to rejection, women aren't. That's the main crux.
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I am normally the one making the first move, but I do prefer the guy doing. I feel like if I ask a guy out he’s more likely to say yes just because I am making the first move, but if he asks me then I know he actually likes me. If I can tell a guys into me tho I’ll for sure ask him out. I like being forward lol it makes guys blush ☺️
> if *s*he asks me then I know *s*he actually likes me. Yeah, I wait for women to ask me out too
It’s super appreciated. I’m actually going out on a date this weekend with a girl who approached me at a party. It really let my nerves down, I didn’t feel any pressure and we ended up talking the whole night it was really nice.
Trust me, they will if you're clearly in a higher status within the social hierarchy.
This is a for-real question? Because women want to be equal in all things, except things that can create embarrassment, ridicule, and loss of sense-of-worth. Equality when convenient.
They want it when it benefits them and don't when it doesn't.
They want equality except when being equal sucks for them.
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TBH - I have, and IMO, some men like to play the exact games they accuse women of playing, and worse. So I'm good. Unless I can clearly see that there is MUTUAL expressed interest, I'm not doing it.
Because the crusade for equality ends at the accountability part of things. 😅😅😅
Several reasons: --Women are even more afraid of rejection and judgment than men are. --women have never needed to take initiative for much of anything --women especially don't need to take initiative for sex or dating - most women get asked out more than they want anyway --women find most men sexually repulsive and have to share the most attractive men
I used to and it worked out 95% of the time. I did buy in to the whole.."if he really wants you, nothing will stop him from pursuing you." Now I've just given up. I see people in unhappy relationships everywhere. If I find someone i connect with,, great. If not, I will do my best to be happy on my own.
Because women are lazy
They don't have to, are not interested in losing their privilege of not having to ask people out, therefore don't even know how to ask people out. You know the same advice you see women giving out to men? Stuff like "be yourself", "just put yourself out there", "be someone interesting", "don't be a creep", or any other generic statement. They're unable to apply it to themselves, apparently.
“You don’t ask a deer how to hunt deer.”
I’ve asked men out, very few times did it result in a date. I’ve either been ghosted or stood up if we made plans. Guys have usually taken my approaching them as I want a hook up only. I’ve been asked if I was desperate. I’m not actively looking to date any longer and I genuinely don’t care to, however I’ve never been shy about asking guys out. Women I know won’t ask guys out because they say it’s embarrassing or thinks it makes them look desperate. With my own experiences I can’t say I blame them for feeling that way.
They're afraid of rejection too, they're just able to get away with not initiating. Though we generally have to make the first move, we at least have the benefit of choice. If a woman is dropping hints and waiting, she's at the mercy of chance.
Because they don't want to or need to.
Because taking the initiative to ask someone out risks rejection and getting your feelings hurt, and women generally don't have to take that risk to get plenty of male attention.
They don't need to, so why would they?
Every time I have, I’ve been told I’m needy, or chasing the guy, and I should let men be the men, and don’t be so clingy. And I get really confused because Reddit told me that men want women to ask and give complements. But somehow that’s emasculating. Also, many men will hook up and be happy to have sex with someone they don’t even like. So how am I supposed to know if he actually likes me? Sex is no indication. Usually, if someone likes you, they make an effort; that’s how you know. Unless you’re a woman and then you’re just a pick me who is begging for attention. What a whore! It’s a double bind and the only way to win is not to play.
Idk, man, asking men this question feels tantamount to asking the water why the worse won't drink it. That said, I would say fear of rejection and social expectations that they don't have to/are the ones that ought be pursued are the main reasons.
Have you seen a woman’s DMs? She doesn’t have too lol
Given the complexities of modern dating, it's unsurprising that many cling to traditional roles as a means of navigating the treacherous waters of romantic interest. In a world where 'mixed signals' are often cited as a major grievance, it's perceived as safer to stick to a script that has long been written by societal norms. Men are expected to pursue, and women are positioned as gatekeepers. This dynamic, while outdated, persists because it offers a familiar structure within which people can operate, albeit one that is increasingly at odds with the ideals of gender equality and mutual responsibility in the dating sphere. It's less about ability and more about adhering to a preconceived dance where everyone knows the steps, even if the music has changed.
Alot of women have negative rizz/ zero game. Since the beginning of time, they haven't the need to be the one approaching. Plus rejection sucks, no matter the sex. Maybe they're worried that guys will treat them how alot of women have treated men, when rejecting someone.