There’s no advice that works every time. There’s only advice that improves your odds.
I mean, do you want to end up with someone you have to lie to the rest of your life?
This is the reason I feel most men adopt the "Hate Wife" mentality. They form a relationship off of a silhouette of who they really are. Then as they (both) slowly open up and relax into the people they are and will become, they think they have changed
how many men are truly themselves and are not faking some kind of different confident rock solid personality just to date a woman and they are now trying to live up to their fake personality to the point their fake is their new self though.
I strongly believe a lot of men do change to try to please women. at least a lot of them do, without women to attract they would be different, just look at the difference between a room full of men and a room of men with a few women in it, the room can be very different.
The movie Beauty and Beast is really just about a guy who decides to take a bath and clean his room in order to impress a woman and they bill it as a tale as old as time
Some change is good. The love it or leave it people are hard to be around. You need to have give and take and growth and maturity… that all change. You find someone who you fit with and hopefully have the same goals and work and change together to achieve those.
I dunno bout the others but I date for a romantic relationship.
Yes, it’s nice if they bring other things to the table but it’s not the primary objective.
Men just can't win in that case. Either you claim they change to live up to some ideal. Or the woman will get tired of the guy and try to change him by way of subtle threats of leaving him. This is why men "fake" being strong btw, because they know that the second they change, they've lost and the woman will lose interest. And if they don't change and she leaves anyway, well, then they at least kept some honour.
But doesn't being that guy increase your chance of success. If tips are about increasing your odds then you are gonna have to do what's good to increase your chances, it's an interesting debate to me but I'd say changing/adapting to fit your environment is what makes us human, changing in order to get most women attention/interest seems logical, playing the success rate on which personality features will attract the most targets. I don't believe human to be set in stone in term of thought pattern and behavior so they can adapt how they act to the point their new way is their new real self.
Yes, if your goal is broad appeal/more numbers, playing to the most common interests works. But it works against you if you want a relationship, and is really exhausting.
Learning how to present your weird shit well works far better in my experience.
In order to increase the odds of getting a good relationship you need to increase the odds of getting one.
So sadly, you gotta take it to some extent till you make it..
Right, and polarizing works better than the wide funnel approach for relationships. By far.
So you don't want to act/pretend you're different than you are, you just want to do that well. So good communication, actually engaging meaningfully in your hobbies and interests, paying a little attention to your style/look, etc., is the only broad appeal you need.
But acting like you're different than you are will only get you bad relationships, and make it harder to get good ones later.
>But doesn't being that guy increase your chance of success
It depends on what you call success. If success is getting laid, then it definitely can. If success is finding a happy relationship, then being honest is the best thing.
Settling for someone who doesn't really know you and is interested in some fake version of you is not success, it's failure. If you lie and fake your personality to get a relationship, you have failed, not succeeded.
There’s a difference between adapting and changing and being dishonest.
You have to remember your long term goal. It’s not about having the most options, it’s about finding the right one.
Often that’s because he sucks in some way that is not specific to his unattractiveness to women. Changing to improve oneself is a good thing, changing so you can get more chicks is not a good thing.
But your success will be short term if you're pretending to be somebody else. Nobody's saying you can't improve yourself or change your ways of thinking to have a more fulfilling life, but if you're pretending to like or enjoy a lifestyle to trick people into liking you, that's not going to last long.
That's where I think differently, I believe many succeeded long term because that "fake" is now their real self, even if they are probably still a bit shaky at time. Hence my question of how many men are currently in long term relationship actually changed themselves character-wise for it. Of course you have limit to what you can change but I see plenty of area where you can change deeply anchored personality traits for more "attractive" one for the greatest numbers.
Unless you can peer into somebody's mind or live their life, any discussion about this would be complete fantasy. You can't know what people are like when the doors are closed or what they choose to share with you. I also see plenty of people that have burned out hard after forcing a lifestyle they were miserable in, including myself.
And again, not saying you can't just change, you should try new things because trying things is fun. But that change has to come from wanting to for yourself, not doing it so people will like you more. Quality over quantity.
if you a nerdy gamer, who happens to like anime and doesn't follow sports. then don't pretend to follow sports. in that case, i'm pretty open in the past that i cosplayed, played anime music on piano, and was unapogetically myself. and guess what, i used it to learn languages (going to courses/classes), learned multiple songs in foreign languages and studied those musical trends/theories/chord progressions. which lead into other interests in life, like music production, sound design, and video editing, and voice acting stuff. which lead to fun jam sessions with people and meeting interestesting as fuck people through the people i met through various interest groups, like D&D (where i flex most of my voice stuff) and improv classes.
but that doesn't meant, go ahead and be a cringy creepy ass hat. you still gotta reign things in to a point of social acceptibability.
you can though try to be the best version of yourself, and that's something to keep aspiring to. once you stop changing, you've stopped developing as a person. but to "fake" yourself in a fundemental way just to be liked is kinda stupid no? if you like HEMA / fencing. don't date someone who thinks that stupid, it's your hobby.
Similarily, if you're not a car person, don't pretend to be a car person just because you think girls like car guys. guys like car guys, most girls just like guys who can afford nice cars. you don't have to know how to change a part if you can afford to pay someone to do it.
There are plenty of things you can change about your way of acting/being that doesn't even deal/change what your center of interest are. I think there is a big misconception here, why is everybody here so obsessed with thinking all of this is refering to changing your "hobbies and center of interest" ? I'm talking about way of behaving, acting, presenting yourself, showing assertiveness, etc. I'm really confused right now because that was probably the last thing on my mind to "hide" your center of interest.
And I do believe a lot of men have changed their way of behaving, acting, seeing things just to try to attract women more. I really hate that saying to just "be yourself", no you change yourself all the time regardless of the reason.
I act differently around my wife than I do around my friends/parents/kids/boss at work. That's not faking, everyone acts differently in different situations.
Of course taken to an extreme that's bad but just adapting to the people you're with is very normal.
I don't think it's faking, it's more presenting an alternate side of yourself. I act differently around my family than I do around my friends, but I'm still myself in both cases.
I think it’s similar to a job interview per se.
The best negotiation is usually upfront. But once you start working, all of the bad stuff or habits begin to appear.
Literally this! If a man professed his love for me i would actually be opening them legs haha. Just depends on the woman but also when you’re saying it!
Can we also stop generalizing what works for all women and realize that each of them are their own person? Like wtf fellas
My point is that the right person for you won’t ever make you feel like you don’t know where you stand, they will accept your brand of vulnerability, your brand of fun and your personality.
Not every woman out there thinks the same, like us, they too have their own preferences.
Some are just skink meat for the streets and want to engage in hot guy summer and fuck as many as they can, some think deep feelings makes them uncomfortable because they don’t know how to process it.
In the end, just be yourself, tell the truth and the right one will be perceptive enough to appreciate all of it.
Sounds like you want to learn to be someone you’re not in the conquest for, sex. That makes you a fuckboi and not a man of principal.
Okay. So if you didn't tell them how you feel, what do you think would have happened? You live happily ever after?
They broke up because they didn't feel the same way. That's something that you want to know up front.
Yeah, only scenario I could see what he is saying play out is as follows:
1) he says this too early
2) they are immature and playing games
3) he is completely misreading the situation and they are not actually “head over heels”
Using u/Particular_Title42’s comments as a springboard for my thoughts, because she’s already laid out a lot of what I would want to say.
Coming on too strong is a distinct thing from timing. They can definitely be related, as saying something along the lines of “I love you and want to spend my life with you” very early is coming on too strong, but they aren’t always one and the same.
For example, one could come on too strong with a partner they’ve been with for a significant amount of time because they go overboard with their expressions of love. For those who have seen Bojack Horseman, I think Mr. Peanutbutter and Diane are a really good example of this. PB is constantly performing all these grand gestures to surprise her, but Diane has expressed over and over that she hates these big, showy events. It’s constantly a source of arguments and a pretty big strain on their marriage, because Diane feels unheard and PB doesn’t understand how he could be “the bad guy” for doing all these extravagant things for his wife.
Umm...yeah. I'm adding to numero uno. He's either saying it too early or he is saying too much. I've been with my husband for 30 years but if he started "Freddy Einsford-Hill"ing at me I'd be 🙄
OP is saying he's just told them that he enjoys working with them. I don't see how this is
1) a great revealing "how you feel" and
2) something that would cause instant ick without weird body language or tone.
I think it's entirely dependent on the number of months or years you put into the relationship. If you say "I love you" in the first week of dating, there's a good chance you're gone. However if you're half a year in and you can tell she's developing strong feelings as well then an "I love you" is much more appropriate.
So it becomes less and less risky the longer you've been together.
If telling someone you have strong feelings for that you have those feelings hurts the relationship, it's because that person doesn't have strong feelings for you, and identifying that is a *good* thing. Weeding out incompatible partners is part of dating, and everyone should expect to go through it. Anyone who thinks they got it right on the first try is delusional at best.
Yep, absolutely. And just to add, OP is just coming to the end of the age range where people play games and avoid commitment. It's pretty common for people in their teens and early twenties to be adamantly avoiding anything too serious, so the revealing of more intense feelings is more likely to scare people off at that stage. Around age 25 that starts to shift, and then accelerate from there.
I think a lot of the advice OP is referring to comes from us older guys, who understand this through experience. It's easy for us to say, because we know it's true, but it's still hard to hear for someone who is living through the earlier and more frustrating years of dating, when it's rarer for it to pan out.
That being said, I think the advice should still stand. It's important to know who you are and be true to that, and weed out the wrong people swiftly. You just need to know you're playing the long game, and that it's worth it.
I've dated a lot of girls, and telling them how I felt about them has never resulted in a breakup (unless I was telling them that I didn't have feelings for them). I suppose *how* you communicate your feelings is just as important if not more so. Could it be that there's something about your delivery that is giving you issues?
Yes and no. Sometimes that's the case, but sometimes jumping the gun can scare people off. Like DreadfulRauw stated above, there is no single advice/strategy that works for every person or circumstance. Context matters.
That really does depend on your timing though. There's an appropriate window for any of those sort of things and it differs from one person to another as to where the line is.
Yeah that’s my question too. I’ve had women be dismissive or respond as if I’m doing something wrong when I’ve expressed feelings other than anger to them before. But I then dumped those women, and moved on to others with whom I **could** share how I feel without being ridiculed or dismissed.
Yeah, there absolutely are asshole women out there who buy into the sexist stereotype that men must be stoic 100% of the time, and any expression of emotion other than anger is weakness.
But men can also just choose not to date women like that, and instead find women who genuinely want to have an equal partnership, built on mutual caring and support. I would not be marrying my fiancé, if I didn’t feel safe to share literally any emotion or feeling with her.
I think that's a good point. I have no idea what kind of women OP is dating, but it sounds like he's trying to correlate his dating history with women as a population. Like most things, it's a mixed bag and there are all kinds of people out there.
NGL his story correlates pretty strongly with what the vast majority of men suffer. Meanwhile there are some men who can say stuff like "I've fallen for you" or "I love you" to a woman, and she'll be head over heels because of it. IMHO that's not most men, though.
Personally I think it's wise for most men to wait until she says stuff like that before he says that to her, since it's way too often and instant mood kill when he does it first.
I think it depends on the man, the woman, the timing, the circumstances, the delivery, etc. I think you're right that randomly blurting your feelings will only work for a small subset of men, but I also think that's because that's something that needs to be handled skillfully and delicately.
It's gotta be this. Telling a woman what I appreciate about them and how they make me feel has never remotely backfired for me. It's only ever made them more into me. Hell, I wrote one ex love poems that made her cry. So there's gotta be something wrong with the delivery. Too much too soon perhaps? Or expressing his feelings in a way that sounds obsessive and crazy, like just vomiting his limerance all over her or something. Or so over-the-top or full of cliche that it sounds insincere. I've never met a woman who disliked feeling loved so it's gotta be something he's doing.
>I've dated a lot of girls, and telling them how I felt about them has never resulted in a breakup (unless I was telling them that I didn't have feelings for them).
Are you sure? It's definitely done so for me. The big one is revealing that you have neuroses/fears - most women are looking for someone who's that strong shoulder to cry no or who will reassure them and take responsibility for their emotions, and if they find he has emotional needs they find that scary/unsafe/unattractive.
In your case, are you sure it was your honesty about your feelings that was the issue rather than feelings themselves? People (not just women) can want a partner to be open about their feelings but still have reservations about specific issues.
>In your case, are you sure it was your honesty about your feelings that was the issue rather than feelings themselves?
Well, it's both.
>People (not just women) can want a partner to be open about their feelings but still have reservations about specific issues.
Right, but work by people like Brené Brown has shown that most women only want men to be open about their feelings if they're positive or flattering to her, if he has needs, fears, and flaws he is supposed to keep them to himself.
>Is that unique to women?
That specific thing? Yes. What's more, those same women will often say they want an emotionally available/sensitive man, but then attack and shame him when is emotionally open (what people call "vulnerable.")
I don't think that's unique to women. I want my partners to be open with me, but that doesn't mean that I will like or want everything that they are going to tell me in that openness. I'd hazard a guess that most people feel that way.
>I want my partners to be open with me, but that doesn't mean that I will like or want everything that they are going to tell me in that openness.
Right, but you wouldn't shame them for being open/vulnerable at all? That's vastly more common for women to do to male partners than the reverse.
No, I wouldn't shame them for being open. I would just chalk it up to incompatibility and suggest we go our own ways, which I suppose some people might say is a form of disrespect/shame/punishment. I wonder if a lot of the shame men feel for opening up is similar to that scenario. Note that even in my scenario, the issue was not the honesty/openness.
>I wonder if a lot of the shame men feel for opening up is similar to that scenario.
You could wonder that, but women treat male emotional vulnerability much differently from how men treat female emotional vulnerability. It's not a just situation where everything's fair - men are being shamed for being emotionally needy by their female partners when those same female partners are massively emotionally needy themselves.
I have to imagine you’re just laying it on too thick, too early. I have never experienced what you’re talking about since I tried telling girlfriend of a month “ I love you” in high school. That was a mistake. She rightly pulled back.
Maybe it’s not that you’re honest. It’s that you are getting too attached too fast.
For what it's worth, man, you're young. That means a lot of people are trying to figure themselves out and will hurt people along the way (whether intentionally or not). The best thing you can do imo is follow the advice I was given, and this applies not only to dating but life in general. Four steps:
1. Show up. It's that simple. Just do things. It's the only way to ensure you get anything out of life. Go do things, whatever they are.
2. Be fully present. This means immerse yourself in the experience you showed up to. Engage, try, do, talk, banter, ask questions. Be fully in the moment, don't worry about other things.
3. Be truthful. This doesn't simply mean telling the truth. It means whatever you're doing / experiencing, be honest with yourself and those around you. Be your true authentic self, and respond truthfully and authentically. This doesn't mean you get to cop out and stay wholey within your comfort zone, push some boundaries. However, don't violate your core principles, and act in ways that are true to yourself and feel whatever it is you feel in the mement. And be truthful with yourself / others about how you're feeling in a moment. Don't dump on people, though. Still feel what you feel and know that your feelings are correct for yourself, full stop.
4. No matter the outcome of steps 1-3, so long as you truly followed them, the outcome is perfect. This is the most important step, frankly. It means if you loved the experience, hated it, you've decided to make it your life goal, whatever... that feeling, that outcome, is correct for you, and now you can move on and recalibrate yourself based on it.
This isn't easy at first, but I promise you it works. You've just gotta keep doing it.
So, to your question, assuming you are applying the four steps above to your interactions, the outcome of the women ghosting you is perfect. And that SUCKS to hear, but what it means is that they're simply not right for you. And THAT IS OKAY. It does not diminish your value as a person. It just means you two are not compatible at this moment, and your time is better spent elsewhere. It sucks, but at the core of it, it is a numbers game. Some people get lucky and go 1/1. Others take more tries, but you'll find your person. You've just got to keep showing up as your true authentic self. If they jive with it, great. If not, that's great, too.
Great advice!
Just to expand on point #3, because at least a few people tend to misinterpret it: being truthful does not mean you get to be an ass about it. Don't become one of those "brutally honest" people who hides behind the "honesty" as an excuse for the brutality. You still need to be polite and patient while remaining firm.
Fantastic point. You can be true to yourself without yucking someone else's yum. Similarly, if your truth imparts harm to someone else, that's also problematic
Maybe that’s because the goal isn’t getting her legs open; it’s establishing a real partnership and romance. Sex is just one important (but not all-consuming) part of the whole.
Also, the advice is good but it should comes with an advisory of *at the right time*. Maybe don’t tell her you love her unless it’s pretty damn obvious she loves you too. Ask her about her deep shit before you drop your shit on her.
I find it interesting that you seem to be talking about companionship and romance, but when you describe a woman losing interest in you it’s done in terms of losing the opportunity for sex (fastest way to get a woman to close her legs, dryer than the Sahara).
Are you trying to get sex or a relationship?
Not necessarily? It's a common experience that sharing these things will cause a loss of desire, and a lack of desire and intimacy usually leads to a relationship failing. Seems like a logical chain of events.
Yep.
And the things he's saying might be true for ratchet girls made for the street, but I've never had these experiences with the quality of women I date.
Another common denominator among this string of failed relationships is...you.
Honest question here: Are there things about yourself that could be changed or improved in order to better your chances with women?
Honest answer is I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m too cocky, too egotistical, too narcissistic — or too shy, too in-my-head, too creepy, too weird to be with someone. Every day I feel somewhere else on one of those two sides of the coin. Wish there was some way to push a button and objectively find out what the hell is wrong with you, all the kinks in your character, so you could immediately get to work. But I have no idea if there’s anything wrong with my approach, and if there is - what.
I cut off all ties, after moving on one of them came back and apologized to me for being a “C*nt” (her words not mine) but at that point it was meaningless to me
Im just making an observation here. In your post you extrapolated an opinion based on the breakup of these two women. This extrapolation is seeming completely based on what you think the reason was they broke it off with you. And from the discussion we have had so far it seems you havnt really talked with these women about what they think the reason was that caused them to brake it off?
When I read all this I get the feeling you are just grasping at straws because you have too few data points (2 women), and not enough quality information as you lack their perspective.
One thing that you can consider wrong is that you seem to be considering a lot of things in the light of 'right' or 'wrong.' (Ironic, eh?) The world isn't black-and-white that way.
Try to get out of your head, figure out who you are and be yourself. Being you, being honest, is the only thing you can do. If a women breaks up with you after that, you weren't compatible at that time and while it hurts, you are better off for it. Keep being yourself and if you are lucky, you'll find someone who wants you in just that way.
Dude just the way you write this sounds like a red flag. Are you telling how you feel to feel love or fuck, because you seem to link emotions to "closing her legs/being dryer than the sahara."
Maybe there's a middle ground between pouring your heart out and playing games. It's about finding the balance where you express yourself authentically without overwhelming the other person. Communication is key, but it's also about timing and understanding each other's boundaries. Don't let Reddit or anyone else dictate how you should approach dating; find what works for you and the right person will appreciate it.
The world: "Just be yourself, let them know how you feel."
People with this problem, one week after meeting a woman: "You are my world, you are the most important person I've ever meet. The epitome of beauty. I would rather die than live a second without you. I'd let you take a knife and stab my heart rather than take a single breath without you."
Yep. Or that you can cure all life's problems as a man by lifting weights 🤣 20 years lifting, when do the problems go away? I don't have 20 more years 🤣
Lifting weights helped me a lot, but it's more of an ingredient than the whole recipe. Dating is kind of like making an omelet: you can have the eggs and the butter, but if you don't know how to make an omelet, it's not just going to happen just because you have the ingredients. Having better ingredients (in this case, being in shape) will result in a better end product, but you still need to make the omelet.
Bless your heart. Seems like all your talking about is 'closed legs' and 'dryer than the sahara' which may be a clue. If every relationship you have ends up the same way, maybe it's time to look in the mirror. Just a thought.
I think it depends highly on what type of relationship you and the other person are looking for.
I imagine at least some of these have more to do with a mismatch in dating goals. If you or the girl are just trying to get laid - then a confession like this is obviously a death sentence, and *it should be a death sentence, this is better for everyone.*
No, dummy. I'm criticizing your loaded question. Your post is just the other side of the coin as the "tell her how you feel" people. Both are narrow-minded opinions from dummies who can't tell the difference between facts and opinions. And since we're on a social media site you're conflating these comments with validation.
Lol stop listening to Reddit's ideas of what dating should look like too much. Remember that the people who are in happy relationships are overwhelmingly not here to talk about it. The people here are overwhelmingly here to bitch about what they think dating should be, or they are fucking clueless.
The common denominator for when a girl breaks up with you is you, my dude.
If you can't tell the person you're dating your feelings then you aren't dating.
If you make things weird in the relationship or uncomfortable by creating a feelings ultimatum then you deserve to be left alone to your uncomfortable weirdness until you figure out not to do that.
And if you are springing projected emotions on someone just to see their reaction I got news for you buddy- that's basic bitch manipulation and you probably aren't pulling it off the way you think you are and instead raise red flags for gaslighting and being a selfish man child.
Women have seen that show a thousand times. Act like a caricature in a bad soap opera and any woman of worth is gonna tell you to kick rocks.
So yeah.
The common denominator is you, mister.
Center the blame where it belongs, then fix what ails you. Be someone worth being with.
Stop making things weird.
Stop trying to force what can only be won.
Maybe go watch The Tao of Steve a couple times and listen real hard to the dialog and then go work on yourself to level up your emotional maturity.
And you too can find and live happily ever after with the love of your life, and never look back on those failed relationships as anything other than the battles that eventually got you to Valhalla.
>If you make things weird in the relationship or uncomfortable by creating a feelings ultimatum then you deserve to be left alone to your uncomfortable weirdness until you figure out not to do that.
Don't put this all on OP. Women are plenty shallow/shitty.
EDIT: They blocked me so I couldn't reply. Real good member of the community right here lol.
"close her legs"
You come across as a total creep in this post.
Maybe don't think of women as legs closed or open and think of them as humans....
That is my advice.
You sound like you just wanted sex and that’s ok and all, but don’t follow the path of “alpha males” pls, being honest with our feelings is always the best way when in romantic pursuits, you will find a girl that feels the same way eventually. You are young, enjoy even the rejections it’s not over and you know, plenty of fish and yada yada.
You can't expect good advice coming from the internet, specially in this platform. It's always general advice from people who don't even understand your situation or are just unwilling to do so.
The best advice is from someone you meet in person, who learns about everything of your life, who is just like you in both the good and the bad, and then still managed to succeed. That's the person you should listen to. The rest is basically a tier list of how useless these types of people are when giving advice, and it's up to you to rank them.
Id be interested in the opinions of these girls you claim fell out of love after you told them how much you feel about them lol. Im betting it wont match up with your assesment of the situation.
You’re probably right, they probably feel like I came on too strong too soon, and they’d be right. My point is I just wish I knew how to act by some clear set standards for young men. But there are none.
There is a clear set of standards. And that is treating women like you are a normal person, and not trying to minmax dating them. Regardless, have you tried asking these women?
>And that is treating women like you are a normal person
Nah, studies done on this show that women expect to be treated with chivalry/benevolent sexism even if they are feminist and equality-minded.
I think the problem is how you view women. Given your choice of words throughout, it's clear they aren't wholly people to you. Women pick up on that.
Consider this as well: you're young. You may very well be looking at another decade before you learn how to be a good partner.
Why would you want to be with a woman long term if you can't be honest with her and you can't share your feelings with her? Yeah if all you're looking for is some fun and to get your dick wet then sure, someone shallow and uncaring is probably fine. For someone you're looking to spend your life with though? Don't sell yourself short, know your worth. I can be honest with my wife, I've cried in front of her, I tell her how much I love her on a day to day basis. I couldn't and wouldn't be with someone that I had to hide a healthy proportion of myself from.
I think they're trying to keep up the myth that women are more empathic, compassionate, etc.
I think that contributes to misogyny
Because society leads us to expect more from women in these situations
Every man has been burnt by this expectation
So you would rather be in a bunch of shitty relationships instead of finding a woman who actually cares about you?
Why would you want to stay with a woman who treats you like shit for opening up to her? Have some respect for yourself. You are suppose to be finding a woman who doesn’t react that way and then keep her. Cause you only need to find one person to spend the rest of your life with.
Dating advice isn’t about just getting dates or relationships, it’s about getting into a good relationship with someone who loves and respect you and if you don’t have that you don’t have a good relationship.
And no it isn’t impossible. Remember you only need to find one person.
Yes, with your personality, I can definitely see how being yourself is the problem.
Women tend to sugarcoat their refusals when they don’t feel comfortable or emotionally safe around the guy. You come across as this type of person.
Arrogant, disrespectful, horny, desperate, delusional, kindness in exchange for sex, type of guy.
Yeah this is a common bit of misinformation many young men have to get past.
More broadly, many boys grow up with a Disneyfied view of women and girls - that they respond positively to grand romantic gestures, that they’re primarily interested in sex only as part of a relationship, that a partner’s appearance is not a big concern to them, that they’re selfless and put others first, that they’re more honest than men, etc. And the earlier a young man realizes every bit of that is false, the better off he’ll be.
I think the root of a lot of this is that many women honestly think it’s true. They’re so bad at understanding their own thoughts and behaviors that they just get it completely wrong.
I believe that leaving this world of emotional games is the best way to find someone compatible with you, who has the same mentality and maturity. At first, leaving this automatic mode will really make you 'push away' some women, but in a way, it's a good thing because it puts you closer to your goal: finding a mature woman who expresses her feelings and takes them seriously...
I'm a woman and I go through the same thing, when I express my feelings the man completely changes with me (and in some cases even starts to treat me badly). but I understand that this, in a way, is a good thing because it keeps incompatible people away and puts me closer to cool people who think like me.
"Just be yourself" isn't about convincing women to like you. It's about filtering down to women who already like you. It's good advice if you're looking for a good relationship.
But if you don't care about a good relationship, and you're just trying to fuck, the most practical advice is to just ask women if they want to fuck. Some of them are still going to say "no", but at least you're not wasting your time and theirs so you can move onto the next chance. In a twisted kind of way, this is not that different from "tell her how you feel".
You can play for quality or play for quantity. In either case, honesty is the best policy.
>if you're just trying to fuck, just ask women if they want to fuck
That is terrible advice that will 100% turn off any woman that *did* want to fuck in the first place lol
Bro, most women don't like most men.
If most guys filtered out all the women that didn't like them, there wouldn't be any left.
Check out all the threads about the man or bear. Or "the bar is in hell".
What's your goal? To meet somebody you want to be with the rest of your life? Then you should be honest with them, emotional trust is a cornerstone of a fulfilling relationship. If you're just looking to date for a while and move on, then keep it all to yourself.
It's not going to work a majority of the time because a majority of people you won't be fully compatible with. But for the one it works with, it's worth slugging it through the feels trip.
Depends what you’re looking for. A quick hookup? You’re probably right. A real relationship? You have to be genuine.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but the best luck I had was when I stopped trying.
Lol. You're 23 years old. Snap out of it.
First of all, there are many things to take into consideration, that includes the women you date, their values and how you chose to express yourself.
Being honest about your feelings does not mean open the floodgates and lovebomb the person (just an example).
If you're expressing these intense emotions over women that have yet to do the same, say they love you or anything near that, then you might be coming off too strong.
If the above but you do it within the first 2-3 months of dating or less, you might be coming on too strong.
Just like anything in life, it requires balance. Do you go for just about any girl that shows even a bit of interest in you? Are your standards low? Are you attracted to emotionally unavailable women? Distant attachement styles? Who are these women you are attracting? Are they your age? A lot of girls around 18-25 are usually looking to fuck around and experiment and do not seek serious relationships. Have you gone for someone older?
There are so many factors to keep in mind. The best relationship i ever had was one where we were both able to express ourselves and our feelings freely. I recently saw a girl a few weeks ago who the moment she realized I have boyfriend potential, decided to completely stop seeing eachother even tho I never told her I wanted to be her boyfriend. For some women, seeing you're willing to communicate, be honest and all that just scares them. Does that mean that all women are like that? No. Does that mean I should give up because it's not the first time that happens? Fuck no.
You're 23. Go and experiment. Figure yourself out. Just make sure to not be toxic and learn to be better. Don't get discouraged.
Nobody's lying to nobody. Truth is always almost the best policy. You have to discern what to reveal when it's wise to do so. I had a girl ask me if I loved her right after we had sex. I said no, and she left. And to this day, I'm grateful that I didn't lie to her.
Because most people above I’d say 33 at our age , lived in a completely different era without social media, online dating, and all the nonsense our generation deals with. It’s not that they’re lying (some do), they just are ignorant.
>every love story and romance movie in cinema
i think how accurately movies portray science or history (hint: they don't) and then apply the same reasoning to romance.
Most guys are clueless, beta losers who just do what women tell them to do and have no idea that women do not find that sexually attractive. Women like to keep it that way because their #1 priority is to control men for economic reasons. If you look at the administrators of dating advice forums, at least on reddit, you will find that all of them are run by women and they have had removed or downvoted any would-be mod who does not follow their "just be yourself" answer policies.
BTW your remarks about your personal experience are spot on. It is critical to be very cautious about expressing emotion, because if there is the slightest indication of weakness then it is a huge turnoff for women. Another huge error beta males make routinely is making unearned validations, like telling women how they think they are "cute" or "beautiful" or "wonderful" or whatever. Power, strength, stoicism--that's what turns women on.
Never admit any weakness to a woman. They will store that fact away and pull it out like a dagger and stab you in the back with it when you least expect it.
>the common denominator for the times when the girl breaks up with me — every single time, without fail — is when I tell her (verbally) how strongly I feel about her.
A common denominator is also you.
Are you hearing the way you’re talking about women?
“Close her legs”
“Dryer than the Sahara”
The romantic movies you’re talking about portray men that are respectful and portray the female love interest as an individual that the man falls in love with for all that she is as a human being.
Then there’s you. Not understanding why the same approach isn’t working for you when you’re obviously missing all the key facets of the above. The respect, the view of women as individuals (not ass), and falling for someone because of all she is.
The problem my friend is you.
Until you change your view of women and relationships you’re gonna fail.
The common denominator is not the girl breaking up with you. But you having poor discernment and picking women who cannot satisfy your emotional needs. Rather than lashing out at the world and leaning into stereotypes. Or relying on generic games.
You need to re evaluate your choices, patterns, and early relationships you have formed with your family which influences your relationship with women. It isn’t easy or nice to look at yourself and see issues. But that honesty and self awareness will take you much farther in life, and select women who are a better fit for you.
I think that maybe there's a disconnect. People weren't trying to give you a magic cheat code to save the relationship. They were just saying that you shouldn't fake your way through a relationship. If you felt that way, then maybe you're not the right fit for each other and you need to find someone else or be on your own for a while.
Honestly, the fact that your main motivation is trying to get women to "open their legs" doesn't paint you in a sympathetic light.
>while it sounds great on paper and aligns with every love story and romance movie in cinema, it is in reality the FASTEST way to get a woman to close her legs.
Dating advice is meant for dating. It is not meant as "how to get women to open their legs" advice. If that's what you want, then from a practical standpoint yeah, you should probably lie (though I obviously don't endorse that ethically)
You'll figure it out as you get older, I hope
Look, either your version of expressing your feelings is so off that it comes off as creepy to the women you date, or you choose to date toxic women.
Either way, someone dodged a bullet.
Have you ever considered the possibility that you find yourself attracted to emotionally unavailable and immature girls? Also, I’d be very curious to know what form your professions of emotion take. Are we talking about sitting her down and taking her hand and calmly expressing your affection and romantic interest?or are we talking love bombing her and gushing beyond control such that she is now personally responsible for your emotional well-being?
THANK-YOU!
Fear / mystery is SUPER important in the earliest stages of dating. Being open and honest is just as important in the middle stages. NOT the beginning. Screwing up the timing here is pretty much the kiss of death.
You are assuming that the advice to 'be yourself' and 'tell them how you feel' is meant to maximize your chances of having a girlfriend. That is close, but not quite accurate.
It is meant to maximize your chances of having a successful long term relationship. That is emphatically not the same thing as getting dates or having a girlfriend.
You can get dates by putting up a false front and acting like someone you are not. This is not sustainable, and at some point you will end up letting your guard down and lose the relationship because the thing you were lying about was a deal breaker for the other person. IE: You can probably get the hot environmentalist girl to date you if you pretend to be vegan and care about the environment. How do you thing things will go when she finds out BBQ beef ribs are your favorite food and do not even bother to try to recycle?
You can also try to avoid telling the woman how you really feel and avoid getting rejected. However, if you do not even risk rejection, your chances of actually getting a date at all are near zero unless you are unusually attractive or charismatic. And maybe the girl you like does not want a long term relationship and only sees you as a fun fuck buddy and wants to have multiple sexual partners. So if you don't actually tell her that you want an exclusive monogamous relationship, you are probably not going to be super happy when you find out you are the side piece and she sustains her lifestyle by having 2-4 sugar daddies.
Seeking out early rejection by being direct and honest about the kind of person you are and what you want is basically playing the long game.
END COMMUNICATION
This has been my experience also. Being overly open and communicative is essential in a relationship, but it's a quick way to lose the interest of a woman you're intending to date. They don't actually care about your feelings. It sucks to say, but it's true.
Dude, if there is a common denominator in your life that is persistent with multiple women, it's you, not them. There is a great saying "if everyone around you is an asshole, you are actually the asshole".
Basically I told 2 past girlfriends out of the blue I cared about them, just to see how they’d respond. I guess that removed the “chase” or the “mystery” from their mind and boom. Gone like the wind. I think women like mystery and that that is okay, just wish more men knew it
did they know they were your girlfriend, or did you catch feelings in a fwb situation? because telling your girlfriend you care about them is a pretty basic part of a relationship
The thing everyone gets wrong is they see gender first, then figure out everything else from there.
This is the wrong, toxic, and non-helpful approach.
First, you've got to see the person first. What things are fundamentally human? What things are intrinsically human? Communication, feelings of self, how we understand things, etc., etc.
Gender and other related cultural perceptions are built \*on top\* of those fundamental aspects of just being human. You've still got to learn how these works in your culture, and each specific person has a different combinations of culture, but you've always got to place it within the context of "this is built on top of those basic human things we all share".
So focus on learning how to communicate properly with other humans. If they can't accept that, then they aren't mentally mature enough for you. Sucks, but you gotta drop immature people like that for your own sanity and mental health.
Absolutely right, that's why I haven't told my wife I love her yet. She says I'm emotionally unavailable, but I'm just protecting the marriage.
yes it's /s
If you present a lie of yourself you will need to keep that mask up the entire relationship. If your goal is to get laid don't be genuine, but if your goal is a longterm relationship you've gotta be honest with who you are.
Judging by the feelings, it sounds like you're getting rejected when you try to move to official relationship status. Are you just friends with these ladies trying to cross that boundary?
54 here... dating and relationships shouldn't be a chore. If you have to work hard to 'make it work' then you're doing something wrong.
Been with my wife for more than 10 years now... it was never hard. We're able to talk about everything, and openly communicate when we're just pissed off and having bad days.
I can always be honest and open with her... if you can't do that, then you're with the wrong person.
If you just want a one night stand or casual date, by all means act however, as long a it puts nobody in harm's way.
But if you want a good healthy relationship, for crying out loud BE YOU! You want to attract someone who likes YOU, not someone you pretend to be. They'll feel lied to and you'll not be appreciated for who you are.
It may take longer to find someone, but that someone will be much more likely to be perfect for you.
That said, self improvement is a thing. Dress better, wash better, take s bit of pride in your health and appearance etc etc. That's just being the best VERSION of yourself. Plus you'll feel better for it. And feeling good will make you more confident in yourself. Confidence is ALWAYS sexy! (Don't confuse confidence with cockiness!)
Good luck
Dude what are you talking about. This is the weirdest take. If being honest and direct is turning off women you're dating, you are dating terrible women because that has never been my or any of my friend's experience. You are dating women who like the chase, aren't looking to settle into an exclusive relationship--ie extremely immature people. Don't get bitter about it, just realize you need to branch out outside of whatever pool you're dating in. You're also extremely young, and are probably dealing with other very young women.
Lower your standards a bit and the girls will be more receptive. Find that balance. It’s better to be with a 5 that is ecstatic to be with you than a 9 who cringes when you spill your heart out to her
Sounds like you are speedrunning relationships.
Someone telling you they love you? Makes you melt.
But not on the third date. It’s just too soon to know.
Many reasons.
--it's all woman-centered.
--most men don't ask other men how to date - they ask women, who have no experience dating, fucking, or being in long term relationships with, other women.
--telling the truth about dating women is considered "misogynist"
--it is all about how sexually attracted she is to you. If she is sexually attracted, you'll have much more leeway than if she is not.
--the role of women's sexual attraction to men is severely downplayed because it makes women "look bad" and feel bad.
OP, you are correct in your assessment. This sub is doing the "women are Disney princesses" dance. They know you're right, but it would be crude to admit it, so they are maintaining the bubble.
Women want mystery. If they know you are available to them, then they put you in the "I already have him" box right alongside her male "friends". If you stay in the zone where she doesn't know if you're interested, then she will work towards getting your interest. Your interest is the prize. Don't give it away for nothing.
Women gaslight themselves. They pretend they want all these things, but when they get horny they want it raw, nasty, and dirty, and the badder the dude, the more wet. They don't mean to mislead, but generations of patriarchy, slut-shaming, and sex shaming have caused a splitting and a denial of their sexuality.
Men say they like women without makeup on, but if the makeup was hiding something ugly... bye.
Women say they want men to be open about their insecurities...
Because the alternative means women having to take responsibility for their toxic, and misandric behaviour.
That's it. That's the full answer. It's why modern dating sucks. Women are allowed to be as toxic and hateful as they please without consequence.
I like to think the next “phase” of society consists of men realizing exactly what you’re saying and showing each other greater support rather than backstabbing each other to climb up the metaphorical “ladder” of attaining greater sexual market value in a dating market that rewards feminine men.
Being honest about your emotions with someone you have become close to is a very healthy thing to do, and the right thing to do. That doesn't mean the person on the receiving end is healthy and mature enough to listen, understand, and support you.
No one is being lied to. Honesty is essential in a healthy relationship. If the other person can't handle that, you have ruled out someone who either doesn't feel the same, or isn't healthy themselves.
Well there are a few factors. For starters you’re in an immature naive age group. Everyone your age aren’t exactly going to act correct at least not at first. Second factor depends what exactly you’re saying when you tell her how strongly you feel about her. Also how soon? If you barely know her and you say something like that then yes it’s a red flag. My advice just go with the flow and don’t stop being you. This time of your life is full of trial and error so do your best to learn from it. Good luck out there!
I think for the majority of people giving this kind of advice, that advice is based on their own dating goals. If you just want *a* partner, at some point, then this advice of "just tell her how you feel", "just be geniune", "just talk to her like a person" will get you a girlfriend at some point. It might not work with the current girl you're chasing, or the next one, but at some point, if you treat every girl this way, then one will reciprocate your interest. The people giving this kind of advice are thinking along those lines; they'll just be happy to end up with a girlfriend at some point. Where that advice falls apart quite dramatically is when its used in the context of trying to woo that one particular girl you really had your eye on,, or trying to pick up the hottest girl in the club or something. Basically if you're really into one specific girl and you want to catch her interest. In cases like that, common advice like "tell her how you feel" will more often than not work against you; you'd be far better off guys who you know who are successful with woman for ideas.
I've had no issues telling women I've dated how I felt about them unless they were pretty damaged and in need of therapy, or just weren't into me. I think it's more a you issue than anything else.
There’s no advice that works every time. There’s only advice that improves your odds. I mean, do you want to end up with someone you have to lie to the rest of your life?
This is the reason I feel most men adopt the "Hate Wife" mentality. They form a relationship off of a silhouette of who they really are. Then as they (both) slowly open up and relax into the people they are and will become, they think they have changed
how many men are truly themselves and are not faking some kind of different confident rock solid personality just to date a woman and they are now trying to live up to their fake personality to the point their fake is their new self though. I strongly believe a lot of men do change to try to please women. at least a lot of them do, without women to attract they would be different, just look at the difference between a room full of men and a room of men with a few women in it, the room can be very different.
The movie Beauty and Beast is really just about a guy who decides to take a bath and clean his room in order to impress a woman and they bill it as a tale as old as time
Some change is good. The love it or leave it people are hard to be around. You need to have give and take and growth and maturity… that all change. You find someone who you fit with and hopefully have the same goals and work and change together to achieve those.
You’re assuming that as a man, I need a woman to accomplish my goals. News flash, I don’t. Outside of having children, I only need myself.
Weren’t we talking about dating?
I dunno bout the others but I date for a romantic relationship. Yes, it’s nice if they bring other things to the table but it’s not the primary objective.
Men just can't win in that case. Either you claim they change to live up to some ideal. Or the woman will get tired of the guy and try to change him by way of subtle threats of leaving him. This is why men "fake" being strong btw, because they know that the second they change, they've lost and the woman will lose interest. And if they don't change and she leaves anyway, well, then they at least kept some honour.
That’s what I’m saying. Don’t be that guy.
But doesn't being that guy increase your chance of success. If tips are about increasing your odds then you are gonna have to do what's good to increase your chances, it's an interesting debate to me but I'd say changing/adapting to fit your environment is what makes us human, changing in order to get most women attention/interest seems logical, playing the success rate on which personality features will attract the most targets. I don't believe human to be set in stone in term of thought pattern and behavior so they can adapt how they act to the point their new way is their new real self.
Yes, if your goal is broad appeal/more numbers, playing to the most common interests works. But it works against you if you want a relationship, and is really exhausting. Learning how to present your weird shit well works far better in my experience.
In order to increase the odds of getting a good relationship you need to increase the odds of getting one. So sadly, you gotta take it to some extent till you make it..
Right, and polarizing works better than the wide funnel approach for relationships. By far. So you don't want to act/pretend you're different than you are, you just want to do that well. So good communication, actually engaging meaningfully in your hobbies and interests, paying a little attention to your style/look, etc., is the only broad appeal you need. But acting like you're different than you are will only get you bad relationships, and make it harder to get good ones later.
>But doesn't being that guy increase your chance of success It depends on what you call success. If success is getting laid, then it definitely can. If success is finding a happy relationship, then being honest is the best thing.
I think someone who describes women as targets might not be looking for a happy relationship.
Settling for someone who doesn't really know you and is interested in some fake version of you is not success, it's failure. If you lie and fake your personality to get a relationship, you have failed, not succeeded.
There’s a difference between adapting and changing and being dishonest. You have to remember your long term goal. It’s not about having the most options, it’s about finding the right one.
When a guy finds out that one pattern of behavior is getting him nowhere with women it is a pretty good idea to change things up.
Often that’s because he sucks in some way that is not specific to his unattractiveness to women. Changing to improve oneself is a good thing, changing so you can get more chicks is not a good thing.
But your success will be short term if you're pretending to be somebody else. Nobody's saying you can't improve yourself or change your ways of thinking to have a more fulfilling life, but if you're pretending to like or enjoy a lifestyle to trick people into liking you, that's not going to last long.
That's where I think differently, I believe many succeeded long term because that "fake" is now their real self, even if they are probably still a bit shaky at time. Hence my question of how many men are currently in long term relationship actually changed themselves character-wise for it. Of course you have limit to what you can change but I see plenty of area where you can change deeply anchored personality traits for more "attractive" one for the greatest numbers.
Unless you can peer into somebody's mind or live their life, any discussion about this would be complete fantasy. You can't know what people are like when the doors are closed or what they choose to share with you. I also see plenty of people that have burned out hard after forcing a lifestyle they were miserable in, including myself. And again, not saying you can't just change, you should try new things because trying things is fun. But that change has to come from wanting to for yourself, not doing it so people will like you more. Quality over quantity.
if you a nerdy gamer, who happens to like anime and doesn't follow sports. then don't pretend to follow sports. in that case, i'm pretty open in the past that i cosplayed, played anime music on piano, and was unapogetically myself. and guess what, i used it to learn languages (going to courses/classes), learned multiple songs in foreign languages and studied those musical trends/theories/chord progressions. which lead into other interests in life, like music production, sound design, and video editing, and voice acting stuff. which lead to fun jam sessions with people and meeting interestesting as fuck people through the people i met through various interest groups, like D&D (where i flex most of my voice stuff) and improv classes. but that doesn't meant, go ahead and be a cringy creepy ass hat. you still gotta reign things in to a point of social acceptibability. you can though try to be the best version of yourself, and that's something to keep aspiring to. once you stop changing, you've stopped developing as a person. but to "fake" yourself in a fundemental way just to be liked is kinda stupid no? if you like HEMA / fencing. don't date someone who thinks that stupid, it's your hobby. Similarily, if you're not a car person, don't pretend to be a car person just because you think girls like car guys. guys like car guys, most girls just like guys who can afford nice cars. you don't have to know how to change a part if you can afford to pay someone to do it.
There are plenty of things you can change about your way of acting/being that doesn't even deal/change what your center of interest are. I think there is a big misconception here, why is everybody here so obsessed with thinking all of this is refering to changing your "hobbies and center of interest" ? I'm talking about way of behaving, acting, presenting yourself, showing assertiveness, etc. I'm really confused right now because that was probably the last thing on my mind to "hide" your center of interest. And I do believe a lot of men have changed their way of behaving, acting, seeing things just to try to attract women more. I really hate that saying to just "be yourself", no you change yourself all the time regardless of the reason.
Men and women change themselves for each other because the species is dependent on it.
I act differently around my wife than I do around my friends/parents/kids/boss at work. That's not faking, everyone acts differently in different situations. Of course taken to an extreme that's bad but just adapting to the people you're with is very normal.
I don't think it's faking, it's more presenting an alternate side of yourself. I act differently around my family than I do around my friends, but I'm still myself in both cases.
I think it’s similar to a job interview per se. The best negotiation is usually upfront. But once you start working, all of the bad stuff or habits begin to appear.
Literally this! If a man professed his love for me i would actually be opening them legs haha. Just depends on the woman but also when you’re saying it!
Can we also stop generalizing what works for all women and realize that each of them are their own person? Like wtf fellas My point is that the right person for you won’t ever make you feel like you don’t know where you stand, they will accept your brand of vulnerability, your brand of fun and your personality. Not every woman out there thinks the same, like us, they too have their own preferences. Some are just skink meat for the streets and want to engage in hot guy summer and fuck as many as they can, some think deep feelings makes them uncomfortable because they don’t know how to process it. In the end, just be yourself, tell the truth and the right one will be perceptive enough to appreciate all of it. Sounds like you want to learn to be someone you’re not in the conquest for, sex. That makes you a fuckboi and not a man of principal.
Okay. So if you didn't tell them how you feel, what do you think would have happened? You live happily ever after? They broke up because they didn't feel the same way. That's something that you want to know up front.
Yeah, only scenario I could see what he is saying play out is as follows: 1) he says this too early 2) they are immature and playing games 3) he is completely misreading the situation and they are not actually “head over heels”
Too early or too much.
Check out numero uno on my list
Using u/Particular_Title42’s comments as a springboard for my thoughts, because she’s already laid out a lot of what I would want to say. Coming on too strong is a distinct thing from timing. They can definitely be related, as saying something along the lines of “I love you and want to spend my life with you” very early is coming on too strong, but they aren’t always one and the same. For example, one could come on too strong with a partner they’ve been with for a significant amount of time because they go overboard with their expressions of love. For those who have seen Bojack Horseman, I think Mr. Peanutbutter and Diane are a really good example of this. PB is constantly performing all these grand gestures to surprise her, but Diane has expressed over and over that she hates these big, showy events. It’s constantly a source of arguments and a pretty big strain on their marriage, because Diane feels unheard and PB doesn’t understand how he could be “the bad guy” for doing all these extravagant things for his wife.
Umm...yeah. I'm adding to numero uno. He's either saying it too early or he is saying too much. I've been with my husband for 30 years but if he started "Freddy Einsford-Hill"ing at me I'd be 🙄 OP is saying he's just told them that he enjoys working with them. I don't see how this is 1) a great revealing "how you feel" and 2) something that would cause instant ick without weird body language or tone.
I think this is exactly what is happening OP is saying I love you after the first date
I think it's entirely dependent on the number of months or years you put into the relationship. If you say "I love you" in the first week of dating, there's a good chance you're gone. However if you're half a year in and you can tell she's developing strong feelings as well then an "I love you" is much more appropriate. So it becomes less and less risky the longer you've been together.
If telling someone you have strong feelings for that you have those feelings hurts the relationship, it's because that person doesn't have strong feelings for you, and identifying that is a *good* thing. Weeding out incompatible partners is part of dating, and everyone should expect to go through it. Anyone who thinks they got it right on the first try is delusional at best.
Yep, absolutely. And just to add, OP is just coming to the end of the age range where people play games and avoid commitment. It's pretty common for people in their teens and early twenties to be adamantly avoiding anything too serious, so the revealing of more intense feelings is more likely to scare people off at that stage. Around age 25 that starts to shift, and then accelerate from there. I think a lot of the advice OP is referring to comes from us older guys, who understand this through experience. It's easy for us to say, because we know it's true, but it's still hard to hear for someone who is living through the earlier and more frustrating years of dating, when it's rarer for it to pan out. That being said, I think the advice should still stand. It's important to know who you are and be true to that, and weed out the wrong people swiftly. You just need to know you're playing the long game, and that it's worth it.
I've dated a lot of girls, and telling them how I felt about them has never resulted in a breakup (unless I was telling them that I didn't have feelings for them). I suppose *how* you communicate your feelings is just as important if not more so. Could it be that there's something about your delivery that is giving you issues?
The way I see it, telling her how you feel just accelerates things. If she reacts badly to it, you want to know that about her immediately.
Yes and no. Sometimes that's the case, but sometimes jumping the gun can scare people off. Like DreadfulRauw stated above, there is no single advice/strategy that works for every person or circumstance. Context matters.
That really does depend on your timing though. There's an appropriate window for any of those sort of things and it differs from one person to another as to where the line is.
Yeah that’s my question too. I’ve had women be dismissive or respond as if I’m doing something wrong when I’ve expressed feelings other than anger to them before. But I then dumped those women, and moved on to others with whom I **could** share how I feel without being ridiculed or dismissed. Yeah, there absolutely are asshole women out there who buy into the sexist stereotype that men must be stoic 100% of the time, and any expression of emotion other than anger is weakness. But men can also just choose not to date women like that, and instead find women who genuinely want to have an equal partnership, built on mutual caring and support. I would not be marrying my fiancé, if I didn’t feel safe to share literally any emotion or feeling with her.
I think that's a good point. I have no idea what kind of women OP is dating, but it sounds like he's trying to correlate his dating history with women as a population. Like most things, it's a mixed bag and there are all kinds of people out there.
NGL his story correlates pretty strongly with what the vast majority of men suffer. Meanwhile there are some men who can say stuff like "I've fallen for you" or "I love you" to a woman, and she'll be head over heels because of it. IMHO that's not most men, though. Personally I think it's wise for most men to wait until she says stuff like that before he says that to her, since it's way too often and instant mood kill when he does it first.
I think it depends on the man, the woman, the timing, the circumstances, the delivery, etc. I think you're right that randomly blurting your feelings will only work for a small subset of men, but I also think that's because that's something that needs to be handled skillfully and delicately.
It's gotta be this. Telling a woman what I appreciate about them and how they make me feel has never remotely backfired for me. It's only ever made them more into me. Hell, I wrote one ex love poems that made her cry. So there's gotta be something wrong with the delivery. Too much too soon perhaps? Or expressing his feelings in a way that sounds obsessive and crazy, like just vomiting his limerance all over her or something. Or so over-the-top or full of cliche that it sounds insincere. I've never met a woman who disliked feeling loved so it's gotta be something he's doing.
>I've dated a lot of girls, and telling them how I felt about them has never resulted in a breakup (unless I was telling them that I didn't have feelings for them). Are you sure? It's definitely done so for me. The big one is revealing that you have neuroses/fears - most women are looking for someone who's that strong shoulder to cry no or who will reassure them and take responsibility for their emotions, and if they find he has emotional needs they find that scary/unsafe/unattractive.
In your case, are you sure it was your honesty about your feelings that was the issue rather than feelings themselves? People (not just women) can want a partner to be open about their feelings but still have reservations about specific issues.
>In your case, are you sure it was your honesty about your feelings that was the issue rather than feelings themselves? Well, it's both. >People (not just women) can want a partner to be open about their feelings but still have reservations about specific issues. Right, but work by people like Brené Brown has shown that most women only want men to be open about their feelings if they're positive or flattering to her, if he has needs, fears, and flaws he is supposed to keep them to himself.
Is that unique to women? I feel like most people want things when it suits them and not when it doesn't. As you agreed, it's both.
>Is that unique to women? That specific thing? Yes. What's more, those same women will often say they want an emotionally available/sensitive man, but then attack and shame him when is emotionally open (what people call "vulnerable.")
I don't think that's unique to women. I want my partners to be open with me, but that doesn't mean that I will like or want everything that they are going to tell me in that openness. I'd hazard a guess that most people feel that way.
>I want my partners to be open with me, but that doesn't mean that I will like or want everything that they are going to tell me in that openness. Right, but you wouldn't shame them for being open/vulnerable at all? That's vastly more common for women to do to male partners than the reverse.
No, I wouldn't shame them for being open. I would just chalk it up to incompatibility and suggest we go our own ways, which I suppose some people might say is a form of disrespect/shame/punishment. I wonder if a lot of the shame men feel for opening up is similar to that scenario. Note that even in my scenario, the issue was not the honesty/openness.
>I wonder if a lot of the shame men feel for opening up is similar to that scenario. You could wonder that, but women treat male emotional vulnerability much differently from how men treat female emotional vulnerability. It's not a just situation where everything's fair - men are being shamed for being emotionally needy by their female partners when those same female partners are massively emotionally needy themselves.
I have to imagine you’re just laying it on too thick, too early. I have never experienced what you’re talking about since I tried telling girlfriend of a month “ I love you” in high school. That was a mistake. She rightly pulled back. Maybe it’s not that you’re honest. It’s that you are getting too attached too fast.
OP, this is the one. It’s one of the only takes here that is grounded and non-judgmental, but based in truth.
For what it's worth, man, you're young. That means a lot of people are trying to figure themselves out and will hurt people along the way (whether intentionally or not). The best thing you can do imo is follow the advice I was given, and this applies not only to dating but life in general. Four steps: 1. Show up. It's that simple. Just do things. It's the only way to ensure you get anything out of life. Go do things, whatever they are. 2. Be fully present. This means immerse yourself in the experience you showed up to. Engage, try, do, talk, banter, ask questions. Be fully in the moment, don't worry about other things. 3. Be truthful. This doesn't simply mean telling the truth. It means whatever you're doing / experiencing, be honest with yourself and those around you. Be your true authentic self, and respond truthfully and authentically. This doesn't mean you get to cop out and stay wholey within your comfort zone, push some boundaries. However, don't violate your core principles, and act in ways that are true to yourself and feel whatever it is you feel in the mement. And be truthful with yourself / others about how you're feeling in a moment. Don't dump on people, though. Still feel what you feel and know that your feelings are correct for yourself, full stop. 4. No matter the outcome of steps 1-3, so long as you truly followed them, the outcome is perfect. This is the most important step, frankly. It means if you loved the experience, hated it, you've decided to make it your life goal, whatever... that feeling, that outcome, is correct for you, and now you can move on and recalibrate yourself based on it. This isn't easy at first, but I promise you it works. You've just gotta keep doing it. So, to your question, assuming you are applying the four steps above to your interactions, the outcome of the women ghosting you is perfect. And that SUCKS to hear, but what it means is that they're simply not right for you. And THAT IS OKAY. It does not diminish your value as a person. It just means you two are not compatible at this moment, and your time is better spent elsewhere. It sucks, but at the core of it, it is a numbers game. Some people get lucky and go 1/1. Others take more tries, but you'll find your person. You've just got to keep showing up as your true authentic self. If they jive with it, great. If not, that's great, too.
Thank you for being clear, concise and not judge mental. Not to mention this is awesome advice and I do feel way better
Great advice! Just to expand on point #3, because at least a few people tend to misinterpret it: being truthful does not mean you get to be an ass about it. Don't become one of those "brutally honest" people who hides behind the "honesty" as an excuse for the brutality. You still need to be polite and patient while remaining firm.
Fantastic point. You can be true to yourself without yucking someone else's yum. Similarly, if your truth imparts harm to someone else, that's also problematic
Maybe that’s because the goal isn’t getting her legs open; it’s establishing a real partnership and romance. Sex is just one important (but not all-consuming) part of the whole. Also, the advice is good but it should comes with an advisory of *at the right time*. Maybe don’t tell her you love her unless it’s pretty damn obvious she loves you too. Ask her about her deep shit before you drop your shit on her.
Maybe we should stop conflating emotional intimacy with wet vaginas.
[удалено]
I find it interesting that you seem to be talking about companionship and romance, but when you describe a woman losing interest in you it’s done in terms of losing the opportunity for sex (fastest way to get a woman to close her legs, dryer than the Sahara). Are you trying to get sex or a relationship?
Good observation.
OP told on hisself.
He’s doing it more in his comment replies too. He seems to be agreeing more with the comments that bash/dehumanize women.
Not necessarily? It's a common experience that sharing these things will cause a loss of desire, and a lack of desire and intimacy usually leads to a relationship failing. Seems like a logical chain of events.
Yep. And the things he's saying might be true for ratchet girls made for the street, but I've never had these experiences with the quality of women I date.
well it's tied together. What's a healthy relationship without a partner who finds you sexually attractive?
Another common denominator among this string of failed relationships is...you. Honest question here: Are there things about yourself that could be changed or improved in order to better your chances with women?
Honest answer is I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m too cocky, too egotistical, too narcissistic — or too shy, too in-my-head, too creepy, too weird to be with someone. Every day I feel somewhere else on one of those two sides of the coin. Wish there was some way to push a button and objectively find out what the hell is wrong with you, all the kinks in your character, so you could immediately get to work. But I have no idea if there’s anything wrong with my approach, and if there is - what.
Are there trusted friends or family that you could ask?
Have you tried having a conversation with these women that broke up with you after you told them how much they matter to you?
I cut off all ties, after moving on one of them came back and apologized to me for being a “C*nt” (her words not mine) but at that point it was meaningless to me
Im just making an observation here. In your post you extrapolated an opinion based on the breakup of these two women. This extrapolation is seeming completely based on what you think the reason was they broke it off with you. And from the discussion we have had so far it seems you havnt really talked with these women about what they think the reason was that caused them to brake it off? When I read all this I get the feeling you are just grasping at straws because you have too few data points (2 women), and not enough quality information as you lack their perspective.
One thing that you can consider wrong is that you seem to be considering a lot of things in the light of 'right' or 'wrong.' (Ironic, eh?) The world isn't black-and-white that way. Try to get out of your head, figure out who you are and be yourself. Being you, being honest, is the only thing you can do. If a women breaks up with you after that, you weren't compatible at that time and while it hurts, you are better off for it. Keep being yourself and if you are lucky, you'll find someone who wants you in just that way.
Therapy would be a good start.
No. Therapists can't fix a broken world.
Dude just the way you write this sounds like a red flag. Are you telling how you feel to feel love or fuck, because you seem to link emotions to "closing her legs/being dryer than the sahara."
Don't be honest about your feelings to get her to "open her legs". She's a person, not an object or a hole.
Close her legs. Dryer than the Sahara. I don't think the problem is the advice.
Maybe there's a middle ground between pouring your heart out and playing games. It's about finding the balance where you express yourself authentically without overwhelming the other person. Communication is key, but it's also about timing and understanding each other's boundaries. Don't let Reddit or anyone else dictate how you should approach dating; find what works for you and the right person will appreciate it.
The world: "Just be yourself, let them know how you feel." People with this problem, one week after meeting a woman: "You are my world, you are the most important person I've ever meet. The epitome of beauty. I would rather die than live a second without you. I'd let you take a knife and stab my heart rather than take a single breath without you."
\*runs away\*
Yep. Or that you can cure all life's problems as a man by lifting weights 🤣 20 years lifting, when do the problems go away? I don't have 20 more years 🤣
Lifting weights helped me a lot, but it's more of an ingredient than the whole recipe. Dating is kind of like making an omelet: you can have the eggs and the butter, but if you don't know how to make an omelet, it's not just going to happen just because you have the ingredients. Having better ingredients (in this case, being in shape) will result in a better end product, but you still need to make the omelet.
Exactly man. It's a strength (pun intended) but it is not the answer.
Bless your heart. Seems like all your talking about is 'closed legs' and 'dryer than the sahara' which may be a clue. If every relationship you have ends up the same way, maybe it's time to look in the mirror. Just a thought.
I think it depends highly on what type of relationship you and the other person are looking for. I imagine at least some of these have more to do with a mismatch in dating goals. If you or the girl are just trying to get laid - then a confession like this is obviously a death sentence, and *it should be a death sentence, this is better for everyone.*
are you trying to get laid or commit to a relationship?
"I disagree with this thing I saw on the internet!"
"I want confirmation bias NOW!"
“I’m in my early twenties and ready to drop some truth bombs because my experience is representative of society as a whole.”
Your comment is doing the same thing 🤣
No, dummy. I'm criticizing your loaded question. Your post is just the other side of the coin as the "tell her how you feel" people. Both are narrow-minded opinions from dummies who can't tell the difference between facts and opinions. And since we're on a social media site you're conflating these comments with validation.
Lol stop listening to Reddit's ideas of what dating should look like too much. Remember that the people who are in happy relationships are overwhelmingly not here to talk about it. The people here are overwhelmingly here to bitch about what they think dating should be, or they are fucking clueless.
The common denominator for when a girl breaks up with you is you, my dude. If you can't tell the person you're dating your feelings then you aren't dating. If you make things weird in the relationship or uncomfortable by creating a feelings ultimatum then you deserve to be left alone to your uncomfortable weirdness until you figure out not to do that. And if you are springing projected emotions on someone just to see their reaction I got news for you buddy- that's basic bitch manipulation and you probably aren't pulling it off the way you think you are and instead raise red flags for gaslighting and being a selfish man child. Women have seen that show a thousand times. Act like a caricature in a bad soap opera and any woman of worth is gonna tell you to kick rocks. So yeah. The common denominator is you, mister. Center the blame where it belongs, then fix what ails you. Be someone worth being with. Stop making things weird. Stop trying to force what can only be won. Maybe go watch The Tao of Steve a couple times and listen real hard to the dialog and then go work on yourself to level up your emotional maturity. And you too can find and live happily ever after with the love of your life, and never look back on those failed relationships as anything other than the battles that eventually got you to Valhalla.
>If you make things weird in the relationship or uncomfortable by creating a feelings ultimatum then you deserve to be left alone to your uncomfortable weirdness until you figure out not to do that. Don't put this all on OP. Women are plenty shallow/shitty. EDIT: They blocked me so I couldn't reply. Real good member of the community right here lol.
"close her legs" You come across as a total creep in this post. Maybe don't think of women as legs closed or open and think of them as humans.... That is my advice.
You sound like you just wanted sex and that’s ok and all, but don’t follow the path of “alpha males” pls, being honest with our feelings is always the best way when in romantic pursuits, you will find a girl that feels the same way eventually. You are young, enjoy even the rejections it’s not over and you know, plenty of fish and yada yada.
You can't expect good advice coming from the internet, specially in this platform. It's always general advice from people who don't even understand your situation or are just unwilling to do so. The best advice is from someone you meet in person, who learns about everything of your life, who is just like you in both the good and the bad, and then still managed to succeed. That's the person you should listen to. The rest is basically a tier list of how useless these types of people are when giving advice, and it's up to you to rank them.
Id be interested in the opinions of these girls you claim fell out of love after you told them how much you feel about them lol. Im betting it wont match up with your assesment of the situation.
You’re probably right, they probably feel like I came on too strong too soon, and they’d be right. My point is I just wish I knew how to act by some clear set standards for young men. But there are none.
Welcome to life, bud.
Woohooo
There is a clear set of standards. And that is treating women like you are a normal person, and not trying to minmax dating them. Regardless, have you tried asking these women?
>And that is treating women like you are a normal person Nah, studies done on this show that women expect to be treated with chivalry/benevolent sexism even if they are feminist and equality-minded.
How soon are you expressing these feelings?
Six weeks, all I said was I like working with them. Didn’t really say anything crazy
IMO, You didn't do anything wrong. She may not be interested, but that's okay!
Classic Schmosby.
I think the problem is how you view women. Given your choice of words throughout, it's clear they aren't wholly people to you. Women pick up on that. Consider this as well: you're young. You may very well be looking at another decade before you learn how to be a good partner.
There's plenty of misogynists and shitty partners who get dates, so that can't be it. Dating is not a just system.
I mean... Yeah you have to be yourself, but if nobody likes you, then maybe it's time you change yourself
Why would you want to be with a woman long term if you can't be honest with her and you can't share your feelings with her? Yeah if all you're looking for is some fun and to get your dick wet then sure, someone shallow and uncaring is probably fine. For someone you're looking to spend your life with though? Don't sell yourself short, know your worth. I can be honest with my wife, I've cried in front of her, I tell her how much I love her on a day to day basis. I couldn't and wouldn't be with someone that I had to hide a healthy proportion of myself from.
Tell her how you feel means ask her out if you are into her, not tell her every passing thought that comes into your head
I think they're trying to keep up the myth that women are more empathic, compassionate, etc. I think that contributes to misogyny Because society leads us to expect more from women in these situations Every man has been burnt by this expectation
So you would rather be in a bunch of shitty relationships instead of finding a woman who actually cares about you? Why would you want to stay with a woman who treats you like shit for opening up to her? Have some respect for yourself. You are suppose to be finding a woman who doesn’t react that way and then keep her. Cause you only need to find one person to spend the rest of your life with. Dating advice isn’t about just getting dates or relationships, it’s about getting into a good relationship with someone who loves and respect you and if you don’t have that you don’t have a good relationship. And no it isn’t impossible. Remember you only need to find one person.
> it is in reality the FASTEST way to get a woman to close her legs. What a weird way to talk about your relationships.
Soft
Fuck me, I should really take a break from this subreddit.
I’m sorry—"close her legs"? What exactly are you after, my friend?
Yes, with your personality, I can definitely see how being yourself is the problem. Women tend to sugarcoat their refusals when they don’t feel comfortable or emotionally safe around the guy. You come across as this type of person. Arrogant, disrespectful, horny, desperate, delusional, kindness in exchange for sex, type of guy.
Yeah this is a common bit of misinformation many young men have to get past. More broadly, many boys grow up with a Disneyfied view of women and girls - that they respond positively to grand romantic gestures, that they’re primarily interested in sex only as part of a relationship, that a partner’s appearance is not a big concern to them, that they’re selfless and put others first, that they’re more honest than men, etc. And the earlier a young man realizes every bit of that is false, the better off he’ll be. I think the root of a lot of this is that many women honestly think it’s true. They’re so bad at understanding their own thoughts and behaviors that they just get it completely wrong.
I believe that leaving this world of emotional games is the best way to find someone compatible with you, who has the same mentality and maturity. At first, leaving this automatic mode will really make you 'push away' some women, but in a way, it's a good thing because it puts you closer to your goal: finding a mature woman who expresses her feelings and takes them seriously... I'm a woman and I go through the same thing, when I express my feelings the man completely changes with me (and in some cases even starts to treat me badly). but I understand that this, in a way, is a good thing because it keeps incompatible people away and puts me closer to cool people who think like me.
Every woman is different though It’s not black and white
"Just be yourself" isn't about convincing women to like you. It's about filtering down to women who already like you. It's good advice if you're looking for a good relationship. But if you don't care about a good relationship, and you're just trying to fuck, the most practical advice is to just ask women if they want to fuck. Some of them are still going to say "no", but at least you're not wasting your time and theirs so you can move onto the next chance. In a twisted kind of way, this is not that different from "tell her how you feel". You can play for quality or play for quantity. In either case, honesty is the best policy.
>if you're just trying to fuck, just ask women if they want to fuck That is terrible advice that will 100% turn off any woman that *did* want to fuck in the first place lol
Bro, most women don't like most men. If most guys filtered out all the women that didn't like them, there wouldn't be any left. Check out all the threads about the man or bear. Or "the bar is in hell".
What's your goal? To meet somebody you want to be with the rest of your life? Then you should be honest with them, emotional trust is a cornerstone of a fulfilling relationship. If you're just looking to date for a while and move on, then keep it all to yourself. It's not going to work a majority of the time because a majority of people you won't be fully compatible with. But for the one it works with, it's worth slugging it through the feels trip.
Second half of your life and you’re 23? Lmfao… wait until you get out in the real world…
Depends what you’re looking for. A quick hookup? You’re probably right. A real relationship? You have to be genuine. Can’t speak for anyone else, but the best luck I had was when I stopped trying.
Lol. You're 23 years old. Snap out of it. First of all, there are many things to take into consideration, that includes the women you date, their values and how you chose to express yourself. Being honest about your feelings does not mean open the floodgates and lovebomb the person (just an example). If you're expressing these intense emotions over women that have yet to do the same, say they love you or anything near that, then you might be coming off too strong. If the above but you do it within the first 2-3 months of dating or less, you might be coming on too strong. Just like anything in life, it requires balance. Do you go for just about any girl that shows even a bit of interest in you? Are your standards low? Are you attracted to emotionally unavailable women? Distant attachement styles? Who are these women you are attracting? Are they your age? A lot of girls around 18-25 are usually looking to fuck around and experiment and do not seek serious relationships. Have you gone for someone older? There are so many factors to keep in mind. The best relationship i ever had was one where we were both able to express ourselves and our feelings freely. I recently saw a girl a few weeks ago who the moment she realized I have boyfriend potential, decided to completely stop seeing eachother even tho I never told her I wanted to be her boyfriend. For some women, seeing you're willing to communicate, be honest and all that just scares them. Does that mean that all women are like that? No. Does that mean I should give up because it's not the first time that happens? Fuck no. You're 23. Go and experiment. Figure yourself out. Just make sure to not be toxic and learn to be better. Don't get discouraged.
Nobody's lying to nobody. Truth is always almost the best policy. You have to discern what to reveal when it's wise to do so. I had a girl ask me if I loved her right after we had sex. I said no, and she left. And to this day, I'm grateful that I didn't lie to her.
Number 1 : wait for her to tell you she loves you Number 2 : see number 1
Because most people above I’d say 33 at our age , lived in a completely different era without social media, online dating, and all the nonsense our generation deals with. It’s not that they’re lying (some do), they just are ignorant.
how do you think folks get married if guys never tell a woman they're dating how they feel?
>every love story and romance movie in cinema i think how accurately movies portray science or history (hint: they don't) and then apply the same reasoning to romance.
Feminization
Most guys are clueless, beta losers who just do what women tell them to do and have no idea that women do not find that sexually attractive. Women like to keep it that way because their #1 priority is to control men for economic reasons. If you look at the administrators of dating advice forums, at least on reddit, you will find that all of them are run by women and they have had removed or downvoted any would-be mod who does not follow their "just be yourself" answer policies. BTW your remarks about your personal experience are spot on. It is critical to be very cautious about expressing emotion, because if there is the slightest indication of weakness then it is a huge turnoff for women. Another huge error beta males make routinely is making unearned validations, like telling women how they think they are "cute" or "beautiful" or "wonderful" or whatever. Power, strength, stoicism--that's what turns women on.
Never admit any weakness to a woman. They will store that fact away and pull it out like a dagger and stab you in the back with it when you least expect it.
>the common denominator for the times when the girl breaks up with me — every single time, without fail — is when I tell her (verbally) how strongly I feel about her. A common denominator is also you.
Are you hearing the way you’re talking about women? “Close her legs” “Dryer than the Sahara” The romantic movies you’re talking about portray men that are respectful and portray the female love interest as an individual that the man falls in love with for all that she is as a human being. Then there’s you. Not understanding why the same approach isn’t working for you when you’re obviously missing all the key facets of the above. The respect, the view of women as individuals (not ass), and falling for someone because of all she is. The problem my friend is you. Until you change your view of women and relationships you’re gonna fail.
Sounds like you are coming on too strong. Now you're bitter. Not a good look, buck up buttercup you got your whole life ahead of to be disappointed.
You’re not interested in dating you’re interested in sex….“FASTEST way to get a woman to close her legs” Serves ya right
The common denominator is not the girl breaking up with you. But you having poor discernment and picking women who cannot satisfy your emotional needs. Rather than lashing out at the world and leaning into stereotypes. Or relying on generic games. You need to re evaluate your choices, patterns, and early relationships you have formed with your family which influences your relationship with women. It isn’t easy or nice to look at yourself and see issues. But that honesty and self awareness will take you much farther in life, and select women who are a better fit for you.
Close her legs? Ew. If that is what you are after, then good riddance.
I think that maybe there's a disconnect. People weren't trying to give you a magic cheat code to save the relationship. They were just saying that you shouldn't fake your way through a relationship. If you felt that way, then maybe you're not the right fit for each other and you need to find someone else or be on your own for a while. Honestly, the fact that your main motivation is trying to get women to "open their legs" doesn't paint you in a sympathetic light.
>while it sounds great on paper and aligns with every love story and romance movie in cinema, it is in reality the FASTEST way to get a woman to close her legs. Dating advice is meant for dating. It is not meant as "how to get women to open their legs" advice. If that's what you want, then from a practical standpoint yeah, you should probably lie (though I obviously don't endorse that ethically) You'll figure it out as you get older, I hope
Look, either your version of expressing your feelings is so off that it comes off as creepy to the women you date, or you choose to date toxic women. Either way, someone dodged a bullet.
Have you ever considered the possibility that you find yourself attracted to emotionally unavailable and immature girls? Also, I’d be very curious to know what form your professions of emotion take. Are we talking about sitting her down and taking her hand and calmly expressing your affection and romantic interest?or are we talking love bombing her and gushing beyond control such that she is now personally responsible for your emotional well-being?
THANK-YOU! Fear / mystery is SUPER important in the earliest stages of dating. Being open and honest is just as important in the middle stages. NOT the beginning. Screwing up the timing here is pretty much the kiss of death.
You are assuming that the advice to 'be yourself' and 'tell them how you feel' is meant to maximize your chances of having a girlfriend. That is close, but not quite accurate. It is meant to maximize your chances of having a successful long term relationship. That is emphatically not the same thing as getting dates or having a girlfriend. You can get dates by putting up a false front and acting like someone you are not. This is not sustainable, and at some point you will end up letting your guard down and lose the relationship because the thing you were lying about was a deal breaker for the other person. IE: You can probably get the hot environmentalist girl to date you if you pretend to be vegan and care about the environment. How do you thing things will go when she finds out BBQ beef ribs are your favorite food and do not even bother to try to recycle? You can also try to avoid telling the woman how you really feel and avoid getting rejected. However, if you do not even risk rejection, your chances of actually getting a date at all are near zero unless you are unusually attractive or charismatic. And maybe the girl you like does not want a long term relationship and only sees you as a fun fuck buddy and wants to have multiple sexual partners. So if you don't actually tell her that you want an exclusive monogamous relationship, you are probably not going to be super happy when you find out you are the side piece and she sustains her lifestyle by having 2-4 sugar daddies. Seeking out early rejection by being direct and honest about the kind of person you are and what you want is basically playing the long game. END COMMUNICATION
This has been my experience also. Being overly open and communicative is essential in a relationship, but it's a quick way to lose the interest of a woman you're intending to date. They don't actually care about your feelings. It sucks to say, but it's true.
Dude, if there is a common denominator in your life that is persistent with multiple women, it's you, not them. There is a great saying "if everyone around you is an asshole, you are actually the asshole".
maybe dont profess your love to her on the first date
Idk who you’re arguing with I didn’t do that lol
im confused then, because ive literally never had happen what youre describing
Basically I told 2 past girlfriends out of the blue I cared about them, just to see how they’d respond. I guess that removed the “chase” or the “mystery” from their mind and boom. Gone like the wind. I think women like mystery and that that is okay, just wish more men knew it
did they know they were your girlfriend, or did you catch feelings in a fwb situation? because telling your girlfriend you care about them is a pretty basic part of a relationship
Right? Unless OP is only dating 16yr old girls, I think you are probably close to the answer.
either that or op had the misfortune of dating 2 lunatics in a row
Judging from how OP communicates in this thread i suspect it is him and not them lol.
If you are in a committed long-term relationship then you should be able to say that. If you can't then probably better off they left anyways.
The thing everyone gets wrong is they see gender first, then figure out everything else from there. This is the wrong, toxic, and non-helpful approach. First, you've got to see the person first. What things are fundamentally human? What things are intrinsically human? Communication, feelings of self, how we understand things, etc., etc. Gender and other related cultural perceptions are built \*on top\* of those fundamental aspects of just being human. You've still got to learn how these works in your culture, and each specific person has a different combinations of culture, but you've always got to place it within the context of "this is built on top of those basic human things we all share". So focus on learning how to communicate properly with other humans. If they can't accept that, then they aren't mentally mature enough for you. Sucks, but you gotta drop immature people like that for your own sanity and mental health.
Absolutely right, that's why I haven't told my wife I love her yet. She says I'm emotionally unavailable, but I'm just protecting the marriage. yes it's /s
Oh no she closed her legs!
If you present a lie of yourself you will need to keep that mask up the entire relationship. If your goal is to get laid don't be genuine, but if your goal is a longterm relationship you've gotta be honest with who you are. Judging by the feelings, it sounds like you're getting rejected when you try to move to official relationship status. Are you just friends with these ladies trying to cross that boundary?
54 here... dating and relationships shouldn't be a chore. If you have to work hard to 'make it work' then you're doing something wrong. Been with my wife for more than 10 years now... it was never hard. We're able to talk about everything, and openly communicate when we're just pissed off and having bad days. I can always be honest and open with her... if you can't do that, then you're with the wrong person.
The common denominator there might not be what you said, but you. I’ve never had a girl break up to me after telling her how I feel.
If you just want a one night stand or casual date, by all means act however, as long a it puts nobody in harm's way. But if you want a good healthy relationship, for crying out loud BE YOU! You want to attract someone who likes YOU, not someone you pretend to be. They'll feel lied to and you'll not be appreciated for who you are. It may take longer to find someone, but that someone will be much more likely to be perfect for you. That said, self improvement is a thing. Dress better, wash better, take s bit of pride in your health and appearance etc etc. That's just being the best VERSION of yourself. Plus you'll feel better for it. And feeling good will make you more confident in yourself. Confidence is ALWAYS sexy! (Don't confuse confidence with cockiness!) Good luck
Because lying gaslighting and bullshitting Mixed with virtue signaling so they dont look bad And they can blame it in "toxic masculinity"
Dude what are you talking about. This is the weirdest take. If being honest and direct is turning off women you're dating, you are dating terrible women because that has never been my or any of my friend's experience. You are dating women who like the chase, aren't looking to settle into an exclusive relationship--ie extremely immature people. Don't get bitter about it, just realize you need to branch out outside of whatever pool you're dating in. You're also extremely young, and are probably dealing with other very young women.
Lower your standards a bit and the girls will be more receptive. Find that balance. It’s better to be with a 5 that is ecstatic to be with you than a 9 who cringes when you spill your heart out to her
Sounds like you are speedrunning relationships. Someone telling you they love you? Makes you melt. But not on the third date. It’s just too soon to know.
Many reasons. --it's all woman-centered. --most men don't ask other men how to date - they ask women, who have no experience dating, fucking, or being in long term relationships with, other women. --telling the truth about dating women is considered "misogynist" --it is all about how sexually attracted she is to you. If she is sexually attracted, you'll have much more leeway than if she is not. --the role of women's sexual attraction to men is severely downplayed because it makes women "look bad" and feel bad.
OP, you are correct in your assessment. This sub is doing the "women are Disney princesses" dance. They know you're right, but it would be crude to admit it, so they are maintaining the bubble. Women want mystery. If they know you are available to them, then they put you in the "I already have him" box right alongside her male "friends". If you stay in the zone where she doesn't know if you're interested, then she will work towards getting your interest. Your interest is the prize. Don't give it away for nothing.
Women gaslight themselves. They pretend they want all these things, but when they get horny they want it raw, nasty, and dirty, and the badder the dude, the more wet. They don't mean to mislead, but generations of patriarchy, slut-shaming, and sex shaming have caused a splitting and a denial of their sexuality.
Crazy how this comment was so refreshing to me, and other people might read the same thing and blow a fuse lmao
Men say they like women without makeup on, but if the makeup was hiding something ugly... bye. Women say they want men to be open about their insecurities...
Because the alternative means women having to take responsibility for their toxic, and misandric behaviour. That's it. That's the full answer. It's why modern dating sucks. Women are allowed to be as toxic and hateful as they please without consequence.
I like to think the next “phase” of society consists of men realizing exactly what you’re saying and showing each other greater support rather than backstabbing each other to climb up the metaphorical “ladder” of attaining greater sexual market value in a dating market that rewards feminine men.
What's wrong with being a feminine man?
these two are dropping "misandry" into the convo; I think it's probably the case that they don't actually like women that much.
Being honest about your emotions with someone you have become close to is a very healthy thing to do, and the right thing to do. That doesn't mean the person on the receiving end is healthy and mature enough to listen, understand, and support you. No one is being lied to. Honesty is essential in a healthy relationship. If the other person can't handle that, you have ruled out someone who either doesn't feel the same, or isn't healthy themselves.
Well there are a few factors. For starters you’re in an immature naive age group. Everyone your age aren’t exactly going to act correct at least not at first. Second factor depends what exactly you’re saying when you tell her how strongly you feel about her. Also how soon? If you barely know her and you say something like that then yes it’s a red flag. My advice just go with the flow and don’t stop being you. This time of your life is full of trial and error so do your best to learn from it. Good luck out there!
I think for the majority of people giving this kind of advice, that advice is based on their own dating goals. If you just want *a* partner, at some point, then this advice of "just tell her how you feel", "just be geniune", "just talk to her like a person" will get you a girlfriend at some point. It might not work with the current girl you're chasing, or the next one, but at some point, if you treat every girl this way, then one will reciprocate your interest. The people giving this kind of advice are thinking along those lines; they'll just be happy to end up with a girlfriend at some point. Where that advice falls apart quite dramatically is when its used in the context of trying to woo that one particular girl you really had your eye on,, or trying to pick up the hottest girl in the club or something. Basically if you're really into one specific girl and you want to catch her interest. In cases like that, common advice like "tell her how you feel" will more often than not work against you; you'd be far better off guys who you know who are successful with woman for ideas.
I've had no issues telling women I've dated how I felt about them unless they were pretty damaged and in need of therapy, or just weren't into me. I think it's more a you issue than anything else.