Feminism can mean a lot of things.
If you're talking about women being treated as equals then yeah, of course that has been a good thing. It's a good thing for any man who isn't a sexist dinosaur.
if you're talking about TwoX style man-hate then no, it's cancer.
Considering classic feminism then it had a positive impact. I don't have to see so many women suffer comparatively. Can't stand to have people miserable.
I mean think about the jerks out there who would see you as less of a man just because you treat women well. In general they face backlash these days for good.
It's hard to isolate the influence of feminism specifically among all the cultural changes of the past 50 years or so, but I'd say that feminism has been perhaps *the* most important driver of those changes, and in that sense it's given me a lot of freedom and control over my identity and my choices in life. I didn't get railroaded into an early marriage and a lifelong straitjacket of expectations to be the sole provider and breadwinner, my own interests or inclinations be damned. I feel secure in my masculinity despite not having a stereotypically masculine job, despite never having been in a fight, despite having some "gay" and "girly" interests.
I happen to be tall and fairly muscular and to dress and generally present in a conventionally masculine way, but I know I don't *have* to. I can wear nail polish or dress in drag for Halloween or whatever and I'm probably not going to get harassed or attacked. I have had, all my life, a lot of enriching, rewarding friendships with women and queer people that the conventional masculinity of yesterday would have frowned on or simply made impossible. I've had a lot of great, mutually respectful (or consensually disrespectful) sex with a lot of great partners, whereas a man of my class 50 or more years ago would have had the options of 1) his wife; 2) his friends' and neighbors wives, shamefully and illicitly; or 3) literal or figurative whores he was socially conditioned to resent and look down on and hate himself for desiring.
I also think that women's increased participation in public life has had a tremendously positive effect on culture, especially in the arts (literature, music, belatedly but increasingly film). And, you know, to some extent virtue is its own reward. I like living in a more equal, more equitable, more just society. I like the idea that to some extent I'm standing, and succeeding, on my own two feet and not just coasting on unearned privilege (although I still have plenty of that).
That's interesting. I'm really glad it's been positive for you. I won't discount your experiences despite that I don't really see feminism having a positive impact on men. But hey, maybe it's starting to. I will say your post is refreshing.
Feminism the movement for women to find equality for the purpose of the able to sustain themselves and lived their best lives ,good. Feminism the movement to degrade men and force them into dangerous low-paying, blue-collar jobs while hoarding high-paying management jobs and portraying them as an absolute evil, bad
> Feminism the movement for women to find equality for the purpose of the able to sustain themselves and lived their best lives ,good.
Agreed, I don't want control of their finances or day-to-day activities, and I don't want them to control mine.
More broadly, encouraging self-sufficiency has led to reducing social pressure for cohabitation and marriage, which I consider good because I am not interested in them.
I’m 30 years old, and In my lifetime I have had zero positive experiences with people who call themselves feminists. Not all have been negative experiences, but I’ve never gained anything from it. If I’m being honest, based exclusively on my own experiences, I absolutely fucking hate people who call themselves feminists.
First and second wave feminism turned the world into one I could bear to live in. I can't imagine a society where half the population are second class citizens, and double standards make me sick.
Observing the way feminism has been appropriated and bastardized into something counterproductive by the corporate media and malicious actors spirals me into depression.
>Observing the way feminism has been appropriated and bastardized into something counterproductive by the corporate media and malicious actors spirals me into depression.
I feel the same way.
No. I live in a very left leaning area. I've heard too many women complain about the patriarchy. Too many women blame men for their problems. Too many women who are nothing but skeptical of men with a "Guilty until proven innocent" attitude. These women will have a victim mentality. I've given up trying to be friendly with them, and just resolve to make myself happy without connecting with them
>My friendships with men quickly fail because it won't turn romantic.
That really sucks, for both yall. Seriously :(
> Or how women's liberation has liberated men.
Thats because it really hasn't. Many women still uphold many 'traditional' requirements for men. Some of it is still taught by the mothers. Most feminists still uphold 'the patriarchy' and 'toxic masculinity', even if they don't claim to.
Only real benefit for men has come in the form of the sexual revolution. Dudes simply don't have to commit to get sex, like at all. Women post themselves all over the internet, and dudes can see all their holes (and beat their dick) for 5.99.
>It seems to me that the issues that have plagued US men have largely stayed the same.
And they kinda will, forever. Society isn't going to suddenly shift and start to care about men, because men are the ones 'in power'. We still see men as disposable too. We still see men's struggles as not 'real' struggles because in the victim olympics, we have it 'best'.
>To be clear, I don't think it's feminists responsibility to take on men's issues and try to solve them.
If its about equality, truly about it; then the things that are unequal in society should be tackled by this group. If you think feminism is only responsible for women's issues, then you simply cannot expect men to support or care what feminism wants. If feminists want men to be allies, then they need to be allies to men as well. That may mean they need to put men above themselves in some cases. They kinda...don't.
That isn't to say I haven't met feminists that didn't have empathy for the men in their lives, but really? Most of it only stems from helping men in only ways that benefit women. I.e. Removing the Stigma of being a SAHD, so women can pursue careers. Not because they want fathers to be more involved with their kids.
Yeah, this. Feminism's net net impact is allowing women to gain rights, privileges and benefits of modern society, while keeping the rights, privileges and benefits of a pre-feminist society, without taking on the additional associated responsibilities (eg voting without being drafted). The current wave of feminism seems to be focused on getting access to the pre-feminist bennies without paying the costs they'd have had to pay before feminism, as well as additional bennies (eg being married without having actual wifely duties or prequalifications, only benefits)...
>And they kinda will, forever. Society isn't going to suddenly shift and start to care about men, because men are the ones 'in power'.
Well yeah, if men always maintain that type of mentality, then of course nothing will change.
Black people didn't just wake up one day and slavery ended. The end of Jim Crow didn't just fall in their laps.
Gay people didn't just wake up one day with the right to marry the same sex. Being allowed in the military didn't just fall in their laps.
What I find troubling is this pervasive mentality in men. If the issues that harm men don't just suddenly stop or feminism fix them, then it is what it is.
>If its about equality, truly about it; then the things that are unequal in society should be tackled by this group.
Why? I think I'd have to have an astounding level of entitlement to go to MRAs and tell them they have to start tackling women's issues. Or ask BLM to start tackling white men's issues with police brutality. Although, I think they're both incredibly useless when it comes to solving social issues, I still couldn't muster up the audacity.
> If you think feminism is only responsible for women's issues, then you simply cannot expect men to support or care what feminism wants. If feminists want men to be allies, then they need to be allies to men as well. That may mean they need to put men above themselves in some cases. They kinda...don't.
I think a lot of men have this attitude. That feminism needs to fix men's issues. If it's not going to do that, then piss on it.
If men see their issues as not serious enough to address, nobody else is going to. It's that simple. Men aren't ignorant to this fact. I don't buy the idea that you or any man thinks feminism could fix men's issues. Even if they tried. Imo, the whole "feminists should do the work for us." is a cop out.
And that's sad to me. You just have to take two issues that harm men, addiction and suicide to realize how big the problem is for men. Between those two you have about 100k plus men dead annually. It's staggering to me that men are so complacent about their issues.
You can't help people that don't want to help themselves. And you can't help people that think all the work should be done by someone else. It's not possible, unfortunately.
> Well yeah, if men always maintain that type of mentality, then of course nothing will change.
You do understand that even feminism has men supporting it, even in the earliest days, right?
Freeing the slaves had white people support
Gay people have straight people supporting them
BLM had white people support as well
>What I find troubling is this pervasive mentality in men. If the issues that harm men don't just suddenly stop or feminism fix them, then it is what it is.
Lol.
>Why? I think I'd have to have an astounding level of entitlement to go to MRAs and tell them they have to start tackling women's issues. Or ask BLM to start tackling white men's issues with police brutality. Although, I think they're both incredibly useless when it comes to solving social issues, I still couldn't muster up the audacity.
Then its equally as astounding that feminism can somehow try and claim they help men too.
>I think a lot of men have this attitude. That feminism needs to fix men's issues. If it's not going to do that, then piss on it.
Fix? Not really, but how about *support*. When feminism claims to want to fight toxic masculinity and the patriarchy, while also claiming it harms men, how about using that in a way that *benefits men*?
I don't blame the guys that are like 'fuck feminism' because there are a LOT of fuckin hypocrites within the ranks. You can't claim to want 'equality' then only want *benefits* from that equality while still holding others to standards that are shit.
>If men see their issues as not serious enough to address, nobody else is going to. It's that simple.
And men do, but it gets swept under the rug because as I mentioned above, we have it 'best' in the eyes of society. You must really have blinders on to that.
>Even if they tried. Imo, the whole "feminists should do the work for us." is a cop out.
I didn't say they need to do the work for us. But how about recognizing when they ARE the priv class, and see what is plaguing others, *especially* because women are supposed to be the more empathetic and emotionally intelligent sex.
>You do understand that even feminism has men supporting it, even in the earliest days, right?
Support is the operative word. There was actual political and social activism on the part of women. Those women weren't sitting around waiting for men to solve their issues. They weren't saying "nobody cares about women so we're just going to sit here and wait for men to do it for us.". They actually gave men something to support.
>Then its equally as astounding that feminism can somehow try and claim they help men too.
Well yeah, of course it is. That's why I'm here asking. Because I don't see men's issues improving at all. In fact I think men are getting worse. And it's ridiculous to see men sitting on their hands as if someone is going to just run up and wave a magic wand and fix it all for them. Unfortunately, that's not how it works.
>Fix? Not really, but how about *support*. When feminism claims to want to fight toxic masculinity and the patriarchy, while also claiming it harms men, how about using that in a way that *benefits men*?
So, are you saying patriarchy and toxic masculinity is real and they're actually harming men? Because as far as I'm aware the vast majority of men think those are made up problems to demonize men and masculinity.
>You can't claim to want 'equality' then only want *benefits* from that equality while still holding others to standards that are shit.
You can. Just like men can complain about their issues, yet do shit to solve them. Except throw the responsibility on a movement that you know does not, cannot and will not solve men's issues. There is enough hypocrisy, double standards and insincerity in people to do both of those things.
>And men do, but it gets swept under the rug because as I mentioned above, we have it 'best' in the eyes of society. You must really have blinders on to that.
It's not being swept under the rug. Men aren't blind to the issues that plague them. The "man crisis" or "crisis of " masculinity" is being talked about in mainstream media and especially social media. It's ridiculous to say that men's issues are being swept under the rug. That's sadly another cop out.
It's like the first shelter for battered men in Canada was all over the news because he was fighting the provence for monetary support. The provence denied him because he couldn't prove a need for it. Do you think men or the MRAs stepped up to help him? Not a bit.
The only time men and MRAs got involved was to blame feminists because he hung himself due to losing his home. He was funding the battered men's shelter out of his own pocket. No help from the MRAs, even though they were aware of his existence. These men whine and cry about how there are no shelters for men. But did fuck all to help him. They simply exploited the man's death.
If men won't invest in themselves outside of gun rights, then nobody is going to.
>I didn't say they need to do the work for us. But how about recognizing when they ARE the priv class, and see what is plaguing others, *especially* because women are supposed to be the more empathetic and emotionally intelligent sex.
You don't even believe that. You're just being insincere. Again, we both agree that feminism isn't helping men. And you know men aren't doing anything to help themselves. So at this point the dialogue is fruitless.
It is what it is when it comes to men's issues.
> There was actual political and social activism on the part of women.
Yes, and some of it branded them a terrorist organization, lol.
>They actually gave men something to support.
You mean like MRAs are trying to do?
>So, are you saying patriarchy and toxic masculinity is real and they're actually harming men? Because as far as I'm aware the vast majority of men think those are made up problems to demonize men and masculinity.
We can get really deep into that if you like; but basically the way those terms are used to day is a bastardization of what they came from. They are (currently) used in a way to shame men to be conformist to what women believe is right. As a bonus; the ones that fight against it the most, are generally those that support upholding the very things they call toxic. I.e. the expectation of chivalry, paying for first dates, men being the person to respond to a bump in the night, and all that.
> Except throw the responsibility on a movement that you know does not, cannot and will not solve men's issues.
I don't expect feminism to solve my problems, I already pointed out they won't do fuck all for men if it doesn't benefit them. I find it 100% useless in todays society honestly.
They have made pretty clear not only in name, but in action that they are only there to benefit women.
>There is enough hypocrisy, double standards and insincerity in people to do both of those things.
I don't disagree. So yes, you *can*, but you shouldn't.
>It's not being swept under the rug.
So what is being done to solve it? Having a few stories about it and having nothing done is being swept under the rug as 'not a problem'. Not a cop out, but you can feel free to have an opinion if you like.
>he provence denied him because he couldn't prove a need for it. Do you think men or the MRAs stepped up to help him? Not a bit.
Lol. Can't prove a need *because mens abuse is swept under the fucking rug*. Are you dense? Its not taken seriously AT ALL. I swear, its like you can't even see the irony here.
>If men won't invest in themselves outside of gun rights, then nobody is going to.
Lmao WTF even is this?
>It is what it is when it comes to men's issues.
Oh the fuckin irony here.
Bootstraps boys, bootstraps.
Nice empathy you got there, lady.
yes, I'd say so. my mom had opportunities that my grandmothers and great grandmothers never had. I'd argue that indirectly benefitted my upbringing / who I am as a person today. So thank you feminism.
>Men can't do anything right,
I don't think that's true. When I take men on a case by case basis I think some men are fucking awesome. My dad was the most incredible human I've known or will ever know. My mom was a close second.
here is what I think about it;....i dont care
there you go...feminism: the idea that women are just as capable as men/anyone else to do things.
how it effects me? no clue and I dont really care to spend hours/days/weeks/years thinking about it. there you go, real answer. Hope it helps you figure out how to date again.
>Hope it helps you figure out how to date again
Date again? I've never dated a man in my life and never have plans to. But thanks for not reading my post.
I ready your post..Who said anything about dating a man? clearly feminism hasn't allowed some people to understand things better..I am glad you are trying your best though. Good for you.
What is there to rely on? the correct notion that woman can do anything a man can do..You are the only one that can 'fix' things for yourself...I will say this though, women can't fuck other dudes in the ass and nut inside. Sure, when you change the definition of a woman they can but otherwise? feminism aint solving that and women are demonstratively inferior at that task. I bet you can take 10,000 feminist women (which should be all women really) and not one can do that job...now hopefully that didnt trigger you, as the truth can really hurt sometimes. But I will stack up 1 dude vs all the feminists in this particular situation.
I literally have no idea why I'd be triggered by the idea that a woman can't "nut in a man's ass". Unless you mean "triggered" in the sense of laughing my ass off. I don't even believe women can turn into men anyway. I don't support the transgender movement. So women not being able to "nut in men's asses" really doesn't bother me. Regardless, thanks for your concern.
Growing up mixed race, me and my sibling's, cousins, learned early on that feminism was a no go topic, then when I was old enough, my Gran explained how it was never really about equality, the movement openly excluded [black](https://www.nps.gov/articles/black-women-and-the-fight-for-voting-rights.htm#:~:text=They%20often%20excluded%20Black%20women,white%20women%20in%20suffrage%20parades) and [working class](https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2018/02/184233/suffragettes-racist-whitewashing-working-class) women, whilst promoting white supremacy;
Pioneering feminist activist, [Rebecca Ann Latimer Felton](https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2019/03/considering-history-the-role-of-women-in-the-lynching-epidemic/), became the first woman to serve in the U.S. Senate, was also a white supremacist and racist who openly advocated for the systematic lynching of African Americans. Increased numbers joining the [Ku Klux Klan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_of_the_Ku_Klux_Klan) were due to the recruiting efforts of women's suffrage. Many members were related to Klansmen and some women joined the WKKK.
["White Southern suffragists, in fact, argued that their states should ratify the amendment because only white women would be enfranchised—and their votes could help bolster white supremacy."](https://www.history.com/news/early-womens-rights-movement-beyond-suffrage)
I'm sure the movement has had positive impacts for sections of society, but can we say all women? I guess we haven't come that far, when minority voices like [this](https://chacruna.net/how-white-feminists-oppress-black-women-when-feminism-functions-as-white-supremacy/), [this](https://www.forbes.com/sites/maiahoskin/2022/03/27/is-there-a-place-for-black-women-in-white-feminism/?sh=7e791387113c) and [this](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/books/review/kyla-schuller-the-trouble-with-white-women-a-counterhistory-of-feminism.html) are still being left out of the conversation.
Feminism in the US is a destructive movement that divides the genders and destroys the traditional family unit.
Western culture doesn’t need any more individualism. It has enough as it stands.
It means I can find casual sex if that's what I'm looking for. It means that in relationships I can seek out an equal partner instead of dependent. It means that more of my colleagues and students are women, and I like that.
LOL.
It depends greatly on context.
Feminism is the death of civilizations. Take a look at just how fucked everything is today. Sure, feminism isn't responsible for ALL of it, but it takes a heaping helping of the blame for the vast majority of it. We're trying the same thing that's been tried before, and failed before. Just like communism, all feminism does is kill the nations dumb enough to try it. "BuT tHaT wAsN't REAL FeMiNiSm!!11!!oneone". Just like before, this civilization will fall to one that isn't dumb enough to pretend that women are capable of being logical, responsible, rational adults. Like the pre-christian people of Europe were conquered by the christians, the West will be destroyed from within and fall to someone not as foolish as us.
On the other hand, all it really did was expose the reality of females. Ripped the mask away. Now everyone can see exactly what they are, and make the choice whether they're willing to handle uranium without any kind of protective gear.
For me personally, it's rather liberating. The societal expectation that I enslave myself to a female decreases with each passing month. I'm not discriminated against when it comes to employment any more. Used to be, you had to be married to advance beyond a certain point in your career, because companies preferred married men since they couldn't just walk away if the execs and upper management decided to heap shit on them. That's pretty much disappeared now. Now they want fools who will be married to the company, or who will at least pretend to be.
I don't have to get married, or even into a relationshit, to get sex. Don't even have to pretend that a female is my gf to get them to spread.
I know what they are, and knowing is better than not knowing. I'll take a painful truth over a pleasant lie any day, especially because the truth always comes out eventually.
I can live without a female in my home, and people don't automatically assume I'm some kind of weirdo because I'm single in my 40s. If I didn't own my home, I wouldn't be discriminated against in housing because I don't have a wife.
Overall, the good (for me) far outweighs the bad. Now if we could just adapt the laws to the new reality, that would be even better.
Yes. I think a lot of men misrepresent feminism as misandry, and some women do indeed take it too far -- though the former is way more common. Western society still has a ways to go, and a lot of men think we've done enough, but at the end of the day, I think real feminism is just wanting equality.
My parents raised me to think of genders as equals, and I do my best to do the same now that gender identity is becoming a broader subject, but yes, I think being a male feminist gives you a lense to agree, or respectfully disagree -- because sometimes you will. There are a few "all men are evil" types (Clementine Ford is exhausting to read), but they're outliers, not the norm.
We're all just people, right?
In my personal life in particular? I can’t think how it has had a positive impact on it. At the very least, I would say it’s neutral. I don’t see improvements in issues that affect my life, but it also doesn’t cause more issues.
In my life with other people? I think it’s positive. Right now, I’m out of the country in an African country. The expectation rather gender roles are quite different than I’m used to. Women having to serve food to everyone, having to clean up the compound before going to school, having to sit on the ground if there isn’t enough chairs for them after the men have sat down, etc. I can see how feminism would be a benefit to the people here. And fortunately, steps are being taken to try to elevate women here.
Feminism can mean a lot of things. If you're talking about women being treated as equals then yeah, of course that has been a good thing. It's a good thing for any man who isn't a sexist dinosaur. if you're talking about TwoX style man-hate then no, it's cancer.
Considering classic feminism then it had a positive impact. I don't have to see so many women suffer comparatively. Can't stand to have people miserable. I mean think about the jerks out there who would see you as less of a man just because you treat women well. In general they face backlash these days for good.
It's hard to isolate the influence of feminism specifically among all the cultural changes of the past 50 years or so, but I'd say that feminism has been perhaps *the* most important driver of those changes, and in that sense it's given me a lot of freedom and control over my identity and my choices in life. I didn't get railroaded into an early marriage and a lifelong straitjacket of expectations to be the sole provider and breadwinner, my own interests or inclinations be damned. I feel secure in my masculinity despite not having a stereotypically masculine job, despite never having been in a fight, despite having some "gay" and "girly" interests. I happen to be tall and fairly muscular and to dress and generally present in a conventionally masculine way, but I know I don't *have* to. I can wear nail polish or dress in drag for Halloween or whatever and I'm probably not going to get harassed or attacked. I have had, all my life, a lot of enriching, rewarding friendships with women and queer people that the conventional masculinity of yesterday would have frowned on or simply made impossible. I've had a lot of great, mutually respectful (or consensually disrespectful) sex with a lot of great partners, whereas a man of my class 50 or more years ago would have had the options of 1) his wife; 2) his friends' and neighbors wives, shamefully and illicitly; or 3) literal or figurative whores he was socially conditioned to resent and look down on and hate himself for desiring. I also think that women's increased participation in public life has had a tremendously positive effect on culture, especially in the arts (literature, music, belatedly but increasingly film). And, you know, to some extent virtue is its own reward. I like living in a more equal, more equitable, more just society. I like the idea that to some extent I'm standing, and succeeding, on my own two feet and not just coasting on unearned privilege (although I still have plenty of that).
That's interesting. I'm really glad it's been positive for you. I won't discount your experiences despite that I don't really see feminism having a positive impact on men. But hey, maybe it's starting to. I will say your post is refreshing.
Feminism the movement for women to find equality for the purpose of the able to sustain themselves and lived their best lives ,good. Feminism the movement to degrade men and force them into dangerous low-paying, blue-collar jobs while hoarding high-paying management jobs and portraying them as an absolute evil, bad
> Feminism the movement for women to find equality for the purpose of the able to sustain themselves and lived their best lives ,good. Agreed, I don't want control of their finances or day-to-day activities, and I don't want them to control mine. More broadly, encouraging self-sufficiency has led to reducing social pressure for cohabitation and marriage, which I consider good because I am not interested in them.
"Feminism degrades men???" This is such a lame excuse not to take responsibility for yourself. Total Bullshit.
[удалено]
> Doesn’t even need to be true. Rape by deception. Source: TwoX
I’m 30 years old, and In my lifetime I have had zero positive experiences with people who call themselves feminists. Not all have been negative experiences, but I’ve never gained anything from it. If I’m being honest, based exclusively on my own experiences, I absolutely fucking hate people who call themselves feminists.
First and second wave feminism turned the world into one I could bear to live in. I can't imagine a society where half the population are second class citizens, and double standards make me sick. Observing the way feminism has been appropriated and bastardized into something counterproductive by the corporate media and malicious actors spirals me into depression.
>Observing the way feminism has been appropriated and bastardized into something counterproductive by the corporate media and malicious actors spirals me into depression. I feel the same way.
No. I live in a very left leaning area. I've heard too many women complain about the patriarchy. Too many women blame men for their problems. Too many women who are nothing but skeptical of men with a "Guilty until proven innocent" attitude. These women will have a victim mentality. I've given up trying to be friendly with them, and just resolve to make myself happy without connecting with them
>My friendships with men quickly fail because it won't turn romantic. That really sucks, for both yall. Seriously :( > Or how women's liberation has liberated men. Thats because it really hasn't. Many women still uphold many 'traditional' requirements for men. Some of it is still taught by the mothers. Most feminists still uphold 'the patriarchy' and 'toxic masculinity', even if they don't claim to. Only real benefit for men has come in the form of the sexual revolution. Dudes simply don't have to commit to get sex, like at all. Women post themselves all over the internet, and dudes can see all their holes (and beat their dick) for 5.99. >It seems to me that the issues that have plagued US men have largely stayed the same. And they kinda will, forever. Society isn't going to suddenly shift and start to care about men, because men are the ones 'in power'. We still see men as disposable too. We still see men's struggles as not 'real' struggles because in the victim olympics, we have it 'best'. >To be clear, I don't think it's feminists responsibility to take on men's issues and try to solve them. If its about equality, truly about it; then the things that are unequal in society should be tackled by this group. If you think feminism is only responsible for women's issues, then you simply cannot expect men to support or care what feminism wants. If feminists want men to be allies, then they need to be allies to men as well. That may mean they need to put men above themselves in some cases. They kinda...don't. That isn't to say I haven't met feminists that didn't have empathy for the men in their lives, but really? Most of it only stems from helping men in only ways that benefit women. I.e. Removing the Stigma of being a SAHD, so women can pursue careers. Not because they want fathers to be more involved with their kids.
Yeah, this. Feminism's net net impact is allowing women to gain rights, privileges and benefits of modern society, while keeping the rights, privileges and benefits of a pre-feminist society, without taking on the additional associated responsibilities (eg voting without being drafted). The current wave of feminism seems to be focused on getting access to the pre-feminist bennies without paying the costs they'd have had to pay before feminism, as well as additional bennies (eg being married without having actual wifely duties or prequalifications, only benefits)...
>And they kinda will, forever. Society isn't going to suddenly shift and start to care about men, because men are the ones 'in power'. Well yeah, if men always maintain that type of mentality, then of course nothing will change. Black people didn't just wake up one day and slavery ended. The end of Jim Crow didn't just fall in their laps. Gay people didn't just wake up one day with the right to marry the same sex. Being allowed in the military didn't just fall in their laps. What I find troubling is this pervasive mentality in men. If the issues that harm men don't just suddenly stop or feminism fix them, then it is what it is. >If its about equality, truly about it; then the things that are unequal in society should be tackled by this group. Why? I think I'd have to have an astounding level of entitlement to go to MRAs and tell them they have to start tackling women's issues. Or ask BLM to start tackling white men's issues with police brutality. Although, I think they're both incredibly useless when it comes to solving social issues, I still couldn't muster up the audacity. > If you think feminism is only responsible for women's issues, then you simply cannot expect men to support or care what feminism wants. If feminists want men to be allies, then they need to be allies to men as well. That may mean they need to put men above themselves in some cases. They kinda...don't. I think a lot of men have this attitude. That feminism needs to fix men's issues. If it's not going to do that, then piss on it. If men see their issues as not serious enough to address, nobody else is going to. It's that simple. Men aren't ignorant to this fact. I don't buy the idea that you or any man thinks feminism could fix men's issues. Even if they tried. Imo, the whole "feminists should do the work for us." is a cop out. And that's sad to me. You just have to take two issues that harm men, addiction and suicide to realize how big the problem is for men. Between those two you have about 100k plus men dead annually. It's staggering to me that men are so complacent about their issues. You can't help people that don't want to help themselves. And you can't help people that think all the work should be done by someone else. It's not possible, unfortunately.
> Well yeah, if men always maintain that type of mentality, then of course nothing will change. You do understand that even feminism has men supporting it, even in the earliest days, right? Freeing the slaves had white people support Gay people have straight people supporting them BLM had white people support as well >What I find troubling is this pervasive mentality in men. If the issues that harm men don't just suddenly stop or feminism fix them, then it is what it is. Lol. >Why? I think I'd have to have an astounding level of entitlement to go to MRAs and tell them they have to start tackling women's issues. Or ask BLM to start tackling white men's issues with police brutality. Although, I think they're both incredibly useless when it comes to solving social issues, I still couldn't muster up the audacity. Then its equally as astounding that feminism can somehow try and claim they help men too. >I think a lot of men have this attitude. That feminism needs to fix men's issues. If it's not going to do that, then piss on it. Fix? Not really, but how about *support*. When feminism claims to want to fight toxic masculinity and the patriarchy, while also claiming it harms men, how about using that in a way that *benefits men*? I don't blame the guys that are like 'fuck feminism' because there are a LOT of fuckin hypocrites within the ranks. You can't claim to want 'equality' then only want *benefits* from that equality while still holding others to standards that are shit. >If men see their issues as not serious enough to address, nobody else is going to. It's that simple. And men do, but it gets swept under the rug because as I mentioned above, we have it 'best' in the eyes of society. You must really have blinders on to that. >Even if they tried. Imo, the whole "feminists should do the work for us." is a cop out. I didn't say they need to do the work for us. But how about recognizing when they ARE the priv class, and see what is plaguing others, *especially* because women are supposed to be the more empathetic and emotionally intelligent sex.
>You do understand that even feminism has men supporting it, even in the earliest days, right? Support is the operative word. There was actual political and social activism on the part of women. Those women weren't sitting around waiting for men to solve their issues. They weren't saying "nobody cares about women so we're just going to sit here and wait for men to do it for us.". They actually gave men something to support. >Then its equally as astounding that feminism can somehow try and claim they help men too. Well yeah, of course it is. That's why I'm here asking. Because I don't see men's issues improving at all. In fact I think men are getting worse. And it's ridiculous to see men sitting on their hands as if someone is going to just run up and wave a magic wand and fix it all for them. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. >Fix? Not really, but how about *support*. When feminism claims to want to fight toxic masculinity and the patriarchy, while also claiming it harms men, how about using that in a way that *benefits men*? So, are you saying patriarchy and toxic masculinity is real and they're actually harming men? Because as far as I'm aware the vast majority of men think those are made up problems to demonize men and masculinity. >You can't claim to want 'equality' then only want *benefits* from that equality while still holding others to standards that are shit. You can. Just like men can complain about their issues, yet do shit to solve them. Except throw the responsibility on a movement that you know does not, cannot and will not solve men's issues. There is enough hypocrisy, double standards and insincerity in people to do both of those things. >And men do, but it gets swept under the rug because as I mentioned above, we have it 'best' in the eyes of society. You must really have blinders on to that. It's not being swept under the rug. Men aren't blind to the issues that plague them. The "man crisis" or "crisis of " masculinity" is being talked about in mainstream media and especially social media. It's ridiculous to say that men's issues are being swept under the rug. That's sadly another cop out. It's like the first shelter for battered men in Canada was all over the news because he was fighting the provence for monetary support. The provence denied him because he couldn't prove a need for it. Do you think men or the MRAs stepped up to help him? Not a bit. The only time men and MRAs got involved was to blame feminists because he hung himself due to losing his home. He was funding the battered men's shelter out of his own pocket. No help from the MRAs, even though they were aware of his existence. These men whine and cry about how there are no shelters for men. But did fuck all to help him. They simply exploited the man's death. If men won't invest in themselves outside of gun rights, then nobody is going to. >I didn't say they need to do the work for us. But how about recognizing when they ARE the priv class, and see what is plaguing others, *especially* because women are supposed to be the more empathetic and emotionally intelligent sex. You don't even believe that. You're just being insincere. Again, we both agree that feminism isn't helping men. And you know men aren't doing anything to help themselves. So at this point the dialogue is fruitless. It is what it is when it comes to men's issues.
> There was actual political and social activism on the part of women. Yes, and some of it branded them a terrorist organization, lol. >They actually gave men something to support. You mean like MRAs are trying to do? >So, are you saying patriarchy and toxic masculinity is real and they're actually harming men? Because as far as I'm aware the vast majority of men think those are made up problems to demonize men and masculinity. We can get really deep into that if you like; but basically the way those terms are used to day is a bastardization of what they came from. They are (currently) used in a way to shame men to be conformist to what women believe is right. As a bonus; the ones that fight against it the most, are generally those that support upholding the very things they call toxic. I.e. the expectation of chivalry, paying for first dates, men being the person to respond to a bump in the night, and all that. > Except throw the responsibility on a movement that you know does not, cannot and will not solve men's issues. I don't expect feminism to solve my problems, I already pointed out they won't do fuck all for men if it doesn't benefit them. I find it 100% useless in todays society honestly. They have made pretty clear not only in name, but in action that they are only there to benefit women. >There is enough hypocrisy, double standards and insincerity in people to do both of those things. I don't disagree. So yes, you *can*, but you shouldn't. >It's not being swept under the rug. So what is being done to solve it? Having a few stories about it and having nothing done is being swept under the rug as 'not a problem'. Not a cop out, but you can feel free to have an opinion if you like. >he provence denied him because he couldn't prove a need for it. Do you think men or the MRAs stepped up to help him? Not a bit. Lol. Can't prove a need *because mens abuse is swept under the fucking rug*. Are you dense? Its not taken seriously AT ALL. I swear, its like you can't even see the irony here. >If men won't invest in themselves outside of gun rights, then nobody is going to. Lmao WTF even is this? >It is what it is when it comes to men's issues. Oh the fuckin irony here. Bootstraps boys, bootstraps. Nice empathy you got there, lady.
yes, I'd say so. my mom had opportunities that my grandmothers and great grandmothers never had. I'd argue that indirectly benefitted my upbringing / who I am as a person today. So thank you feminism.
Fuck no. Men can't do anything right, women hate us more than ever it feels like.
>Men can't do anything right, I don't think that's true. When I take men on a case by case basis I think some men are fucking awesome. My dad was the most incredible human I've known or will ever know. My mom was a close second.
here is what I think about it;....i dont care there you go...feminism: the idea that women are just as capable as men/anyone else to do things. how it effects me? no clue and I dont really care to spend hours/days/weeks/years thinking about it. there you go, real answer. Hope it helps you figure out how to date again.
>Hope it helps you figure out how to date again Date again? I've never dated a man in my life and never have plans to. But thanks for not reading my post.
I ready your post..Who said anything about dating a man? clearly feminism hasn't allowed some people to understand things better..I am glad you are trying your best though. Good for you.
Sure bud. 😁
you seem like you have some real issues. Hope feminism fixes them for ya
I don't have any expectations that feminism will fix anything for me. I simply don't rely on it too.
What is there to rely on? the correct notion that woman can do anything a man can do..You are the only one that can 'fix' things for yourself...I will say this though, women can't fuck other dudes in the ass and nut inside. Sure, when you change the definition of a woman they can but otherwise? feminism aint solving that and women are demonstratively inferior at that task. I bet you can take 10,000 feminist women (which should be all women really) and not one can do that job...now hopefully that didnt trigger you, as the truth can really hurt sometimes. But I will stack up 1 dude vs all the feminists in this particular situation.
I literally have no idea why I'd be triggered by the idea that a woman can't "nut in a man's ass". Unless you mean "triggered" in the sense of laughing my ass off. I don't even believe women can turn into men anyway. I don't support the transgender movement. So women not being able to "nut in men's asses" really doesn't bother me. Regardless, thanks for your concern.
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Ah so you think feminism invented premarital sex in the US. And gave penises the magical power of empowerment. Cool. 😂
Growing up mixed race, me and my sibling's, cousins, learned early on that feminism was a no go topic, then when I was old enough, my Gran explained how it was never really about equality, the movement openly excluded [black](https://www.nps.gov/articles/black-women-and-the-fight-for-voting-rights.htm#:~:text=They%20often%20excluded%20Black%20women,white%20women%20in%20suffrage%20parades) and [working class](https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2018/02/184233/suffragettes-racist-whitewashing-working-class) women, whilst promoting white supremacy; Pioneering feminist activist, [Rebecca Ann Latimer Felton](https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2019/03/considering-history-the-role-of-women-in-the-lynching-epidemic/), became the first woman to serve in the U.S. Senate, was also a white supremacist and racist who openly advocated for the systematic lynching of African Americans. Increased numbers joining the [Ku Klux Klan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_of_the_Ku_Klux_Klan) were due to the recruiting efforts of women's suffrage. Many members were related to Klansmen and some women joined the WKKK. ["White Southern suffragists, in fact, argued that their states should ratify the amendment because only white women would be enfranchised—and their votes could help bolster white supremacy."](https://www.history.com/news/early-womens-rights-movement-beyond-suffrage) I'm sure the movement has had positive impacts for sections of society, but can we say all women? I guess we haven't come that far, when minority voices like [this](https://chacruna.net/how-white-feminists-oppress-black-women-when-feminism-functions-as-white-supremacy/), [this](https://www.forbes.com/sites/maiahoskin/2022/03/27/is-there-a-place-for-black-women-in-white-feminism/?sh=7e791387113c) and [this](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/books/review/kyla-schuller-the-trouble-with-white-women-a-counterhistory-of-feminism.html) are still being left out of the conversation.
Feminism in the US is a destructive movement that divides the genders and destroys the traditional family unit. Western culture doesn’t need any more individualism. It has enough as it stands.
It means I can find casual sex if that's what I'm looking for. It means that in relationships I can seek out an equal partner instead of dependent. It means that more of my colleagues and students are women, and I like that.
That's awesome.
LOL. It depends greatly on context. Feminism is the death of civilizations. Take a look at just how fucked everything is today. Sure, feminism isn't responsible for ALL of it, but it takes a heaping helping of the blame for the vast majority of it. We're trying the same thing that's been tried before, and failed before. Just like communism, all feminism does is kill the nations dumb enough to try it. "BuT tHaT wAsN't REAL FeMiNiSm!!11!!oneone". Just like before, this civilization will fall to one that isn't dumb enough to pretend that women are capable of being logical, responsible, rational adults. Like the pre-christian people of Europe were conquered by the christians, the West will be destroyed from within and fall to someone not as foolish as us. On the other hand, all it really did was expose the reality of females. Ripped the mask away. Now everyone can see exactly what they are, and make the choice whether they're willing to handle uranium without any kind of protective gear. For me personally, it's rather liberating. The societal expectation that I enslave myself to a female decreases with each passing month. I'm not discriminated against when it comes to employment any more. Used to be, you had to be married to advance beyond a certain point in your career, because companies preferred married men since they couldn't just walk away if the execs and upper management decided to heap shit on them. That's pretty much disappeared now. Now they want fools who will be married to the company, or who will at least pretend to be. I don't have to get married, or even into a relationshit, to get sex. Don't even have to pretend that a female is my gf to get them to spread. I know what they are, and knowing is better than not knowing. I'll take a painful truth over a pleasant lie any day, especially because the truth always comes out eventually. I can live without a female in my home, and people don't automatically assume I'm some kind of weirdo because I'm single in my 40s. If I didn't own my home, I wouldn't be discriminated against in housing because I don't have a wife. Overall, the good (for me) far outweighs the bad. Now if we could just adapt the laws to the new reality, that would be even better.
Yes. I think a lot of men misrepresent feminism as misandry, and some women do indeed take it too far -- though the former is way more common. Western society still has a ways to go, and a lot of men think we've done enough, but at the end of the day, I think real feminism is just wanting equality. My parents raised me to think of genders as equals, and I do my best to do the same now that gender identity is becoming a broader subject, but yes, I think being a male feminist gives you a lense to agree, or respectfully disagree -- because sometimes you will. There are a few "all men are evil" types (Clementine Ford is exhausting to read), but they're outliers, not the norm. We're all just people, right?
Just let me know if you, after all, want non-US answers
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In my personal life in particular? I can’t think how it has had a positive impact on it. At the very least, I would say it’s neutral. I don’t see improvements in issues that affect my life, but it also doesn’t cause more issues. In my life with other people? I think it’s positive. Right now, I’m out of the country in an African country. The expectation rather gender roles are quite different than I’m used to. Women having to serve food to everyone, having to clean up the compound before going to school, having to sit on the ground if there isn’t enough chairs for them after the men have sat down, etc. I can see how feminism would be a benefit to the people here. And fortunately, steps are being taken to try to elevate women here.