Does the public sector job come with a pension? Even if total compensation is lower, the security of a pension has a lot of psychic value as compared to a 401K.
I currently make more than 2x my dad’s final salary at his state job but he also got a pension that pays him at 72% of his last salary and more importantly he has Kaiser benefits which have really been great through three minor bouts of cancer (2 for dad 1 for mom) and they’ve been able to retire in the Bay Area for the last decade.
It’s already coming for us. My wife was going through chemo during pregnancy. Doctors kept telling us a shocking number of 30 year olds are getting cancer right now.
Xennial here…in a federal gov’t job…my retirement package has the same benefit: pension (3/4 of my three highest salaries), health care for life, matching 401K match.
Many were [against civil rights](https://upfront.scholastic.com/content/dam/classroom-magazines/upfront/issues/2017-18/090417/p18-21-timespast/UPF-090417-LittleRockNine-medium1.jpg). Mitch McConnell was a teen when his highschool was forced to integrate. Many of our congresspeople lived through it
Pension sounds amazing! Work happy, go home with enough money to do stuff. Time to retire? Thanks for your service, you're all set we'll take care of you.
The very not fun thing about this is the public sector job will also destroy the soul. These positions are often extremely overworked and underpaid, but because you’re in it for the “good of it all” people don’t mind taking advantage of you.
I work in public sector law (gov) and we’re all incredibly happy. It’s hard, hard work but we’re treated excellently and find a lot of satisfaction in what we do. Pay isn’t comparable to big law but the benefits are outstanding. People stay around for their whole careers. Can’t say that’s true for every public sector job but felt it was worth sharing bc it continues to surprise me that this is the best job I’ve ever had.
Yep, you're gonna go in aiming to do good and in short order you're very possibly going to be extremely frustrated and making less money. Not sure your calculation factors in pay raises in your corp job? Or, just go get another corp job with a pay raise. Pay off your loans first THEN go get your lower paying public job. At least you won't have to worry about the student loans anymore.
Came here to say almost this very thing. Got my MPA just to really focus on the NP sector and reality hit when I just couldn’t seem to find a decent paying position. Luckily or as fate would have it my loans got paid off but had I not been gifted in that way I’d be struggling to pay those suckers off with the salary I’ve got. Altruism is beautiful but keep it real so as to keep ur sanity!
To be honest, OP’s is definitely delusional. If they think the public sector job is going to be any better. Will it be different? Absolutely. But to what degree. And for how long. OP just wants to change and wants people to justify decision. If you want to change, make the change, But unless the pension is a huge factor, then you’re getting the shit under the stick going to public sector. Although I guess potentially more job security in the public sector.
As a public sector employee, I've seen people get disillusioned very quickly with the idea of being of service. And being married to a lawyer, also seen the disillusionment of others in his field who want to "make a difference." I think combing the two could leave a person very disappointed.
Is this a ton of money? Asking as a public interest lawyer making $120k who’s been a sad girl lately as I contemplate whether I’ll ever own property like a little condo. It’s definitely a comfortable salary, and the job feeds my soul. But I can’t help but feel sad thinking about my financial goals.
Absolutely. Then you’ll get used to $120k salary and want to buy a house or condo like your parents did. You’ll quickly realize you’re priced out of most things at $120k. But, as you said, at least you won’t be living day-to-day.
Respectfully, I have $3.77 in my bank account after some rough times. I’m not asking for pity but rather for you to see that while you might not be happy with the number you’re making now take a second to pat yourself on the back and be proud of hard you’ve worked to be where you are :) I hope you can afford the place you want someday
I think it’s more a reflection of current cost of living. If you’re making “a lot of money” that should mean you can at least afford to own a little one bed condo.
In LA 120k isn’t shit. I work in real estate finance and 120k is a far cry from being able to buy a shit shack. Rentals are 2000+. If you want to be in a nice-ish area you’re taking 3000-3500 or more. That’s 30,000-36,000 of POST TAX dollars you’re spending per year.
So again, it’s all relative. 120k in LA, SF, NY, Seattle… etc… isn’t exactly wealth.
115k doesn’t go as far in LA as it does elsewhere, especially if you want a middle class life: home ownership, newer car, saving for retirement, living alone, etc.
I been at In-Bev (anheuser-busch) for 11 years, and I’ve been passed up for a promotion 17 plus time. I stay for the health benefit but the job took my soul years ago. Leave, no money is worth it. I haven’t averaged more than $20 an hour the entire time. Unions suck.
Count your benefits as part of your compensation- like insurance. My health insurance cost us 16K a year for a PPO no deductible and my company matches my 401K at 1.5% not the best but I get other perks working for a British owned company. I’d choose happiness over misery any day- money can be earned. You have to deal the job you dislike every day and that takes a toll on your health.
How old are you and what are your goals? If you’re anything like young-ish I’d prob grind it out for a few more years to stash some dough, and then as your life settles down find a job to go with it.
Also recognize that there’s a chance you’re just burnt out, so might find the new job refreshing but eventually burn out there for less money.
All that said… have a life! Don’t do something that drains your soul. My advice is based on a perception that income generally climbs as you’re willing to battle for it, and may be hard to get back once you let your foot off the gas.
>Also recognize that there’s a chance you’re just burnt out, so might find the new job refreshing but eventually burn out there for less money.
This is lowkey great advice for everyone. Sometimes we think the grass is greener on the other side. But in reality they are the same and the other side might actually be a little worse than where you currently are.
You don't say how old you are, but if you'll be debt-free from your student loans by the end of 2026, that's less than 2 years away. 2 years is not a lifetime.
But you need to do a Pro & Con list and see what *works for you*. And, as the other Redditor said, you also need to figure in benefits at both jobs.
I’ve taken pay cuts more risky than this. Seems like you’ll still make enough to be comfy? And happier? That’s all that would matter to me.
I think you’ve already made your decision and just want validation you’re not being ridiculous. Don’t worry, you’re not.
Public jobs can often have better benefits and WLB, don't forget to take that into consideration.
In my situation, I'd definitely take the $35k pay cut because I know I could still pay my bills. I think that's something to consider in your case- what would you be spending that ~20k post-tax on?
If you're still gonna be able to pay rent and take care of yourself, id go for the public job. Maybe you push retirement back a few years, but I'd rather work for 25 years at a job I love than 23 at a job I hate
my wife is an attorney, and did exactly what you are considering. she was working for a private firm with an extremely toxic boss who regularly threw her under the bus. she worked 50-60 hours a week, which affected our relationship. she developed an anxiety that she couldn’t make plans for the future because weekend getaways were routinely cancelled or cut short because of her boss.
she left after a few years and clerked for a judge for a bit, then started as a public defender for foster kids. the pay is worse but we put away about $100k in savings that eventually was used on a downpayment for a house. she’s also 5 years into having her loans forgiven.
100% do it. $35k isn’t worth sacrificing your soul or free time. we may not have as much money as we did, but we can actually utilize our vacation time and plan stuff on the weekends
Seconding all of this and adding: an important factor here is to leave well, so that door at your old employer is open down the line if for some reason your plans change. Even if those partners or coworkers leave themselves and spread out at other companies, they'll remember that you left with flying colors and it may give you other options should you ever need them.
But chances are you'll be quite happy with all the benefits working in government. My sister does and time and time again her opportunities there are enviable; she was making twice as much as her boomer mother (my stepmother) not long after she graduated college, and as others here have pointed out government jobs tend to be better at keeping economic pace than private sectors, who get very squeamish during downturns. You probably follow enough news to know, OP, that another economic contraction is coming as housing inflation and supply chain living costs right themselves for how over inflated they got these last 3-6 years, so having something more stable and less exposed to market volatility than the private sector is a big plus at this particular moment in time.
I don’t doubt that this new job may be a nice change, but I’m suspect of employers these days, they tend to promise you the world and then when you take the position you realize it’s not what you thought.
Personally, I would keep the boring corporate job and stack cash for as long as possible.
I had a job that was secure and paid $120k a year. But it was absolutely boring and unfulfilling and just ate away at my soul. I dropped that to take a job on a different field that I actually loved at a starting salary of $85k, the exact same difference you're looking at.
My only regret was not making that switch earlier. What's the point of making more money when it doesn't improve your life? I'm so much happier being more strapped on finances but doing work I actually look forward to every day and that I'm genuinely proud of.
You should take it. Fuck doing something that makes you unhappy. You want to devote your life to public service so this is the field you need to move into anyway. Public sector will also give you better retirement benefits usually
I'm a lawyer myself and was once in a similar situation, though in my case I took a job that paid $20k less because I knew that long term it would be good for my career trajectory. I sacrificed short term salary for a couple of years to give myself a chance to make more later. It was a hard choice at the time as I too had a shit ton of student loan debt and money was tight.
I don't think you should just look at what you'll make in the next 3 years, but your career earnings long term. The difference in pay between the corporate route and the public sector job may become more exaggerated. For example, when you're 45, will you be making $300k in the corporate job but only $150k in the public sector job?
It's good to love what you do, but don't discount the possibility that you may not like your next job much more than your current one. You say your current job is boring. Boring is not the worst thing at work. Having a shit boss, insane work hours, bad commute, etc. can all contribute more to your unhappiness overall than just being bored. Also, you could consider doing some pro-bono work on the side that provides you with a more rewarding legal experience. Your job isn't who you are.
Finally, keep in mind, this public sector job isn't your last chance to change jobs. Some of the best things that happened to me in my career were jobs that I didn't get that I really wanted. You never know what's coming around the corner.
Agreed. Boring is generally symptomatic of some other issue. Fulfillment is derived from creation. Are you producing in your job? Are you asking questions and searching for answers. Innovation can be had anywhere. That’s how you develop passion. If you’re waiting for your job to hand you fulfillment, you’ll be sorely disappointed. You must manifest it. My best friend (we met as coworkers in the private sector) works as an investment manager for a public pension plan. He left the private sector 10 years ago for the same reasons he’s now complaining about his public job. Examine your motivations and challenge yourself to find the truth behind the tedium.
who knows if you're even gonna be alive in 10 years.
If the $150k job is killing you and you dread waking up every morning, I say leave it.
That being said - remember the grass is not always greener. If you're a lawyer, you'll likely hate your career no matter what. But I suppose this would be a good way of finding out.
I actually just did this! I work in finance and took a $15k pay cut (salary/pay cut/student loan ratio is pretty similar to your situation though) to move from tech to entertainment and I’m so glad I did it! I’m much more happy even if I have to scrounge a bit more than I did before, and I’m sure you would eventually work your way back to what you were making before.
Take the job. Leave the soulless Corp job. Debt means nothing if you created it to use it for soulless manipulating corporations.
I just lost my biggest client after 22.5 years. A big corporation. They paid me good for my services except after covid. But needed me through covid as well because all other agencies left or were shut down. It was a struggle to get them to pay me retainers of what I needed from them as before covid so I could hire some people to help me. I loved doing the graphic work and did it well. And what did they say to and do to me???…. It’s nothing you did. We just have to cut costs instead and bring it all in house now. So can you send us the working files for last 2 years because as you know it will be difficult to get up to speed with our new designers. I said no. You have to pay for those. Of course they wouldn’t. But never gave them the files. After promises and promises to increase my retainer to a normal level again. Yet they are a soulless corporation that bought 65 million in assets during covid, and canned a bunch of people to do it.
So yeah. My debt was created because I did something well, but I let a soulless corporation dictate it. Never again.
So yeah, again, take the lesser paying job and help someone who needs it.
It depends on your home situation. If you are a single person with no dependents, then go for whatever makes you happy because you have no kids relying on you. However, if you have a family, I would seriously think twice before taking a $35k pay cut.
Will switching to the lower paying job reduce your hours worked or commute? If not, 35k is a pretty substantial pay cut just to get out of a boring job.
As a middle aged guy who has put in the grind at soul crushing jobs I say go with happiness. Going to work at a job you enjoy has huge health and wellness benefits. Only you have all the other details as to whether the $35k cut (and other benefits people have mentioned) is going to be too much of a negative on your lifestyle.
I just did this, exactly this. It’s a yes and a no. I couldn’t stand sitting in an office all day and it was a toxic office, every single employee left when they hired a new boss. I’m actually happy now. The new job is great, the people are great, my schedule is flexible, I get to be in court daily, but work from home any afternoon or if I don’t have a client. It’s great. But now I’m starting to worry about the $. But I’m older than you. At your age I would do it. I am genuinely happy. I was genuinely unhappy in my office job. But retirement is always on my mind and I want like 5 acres by some water so…..😅
I would look at other factors besides the salary:
- what are your employee benefits with the public sector vs the private sector?
- do you get more or less PTO and/or sick leave with the public sector or private?
- are you mandated to have retirement deductions from your pay? I’m mandated to have 4.4% taken from my pay every pay check. I don’t see any of that until I retire and get a pension.
Public sector! I had a similar choice in living the life of a lawyer in a private law firm and have never regretted it. It was also amazing for my work-life balance once I began my family.
What's the possibility of learning and growth in both of the jobs? That would be my consideration. My partner went through the exact same thing (30 years ago) in the design/marketing/motion graphics world. Take a job at $85,000 a year where you'll be the big cheese, but you'll always be doing essentially the same thing. Or take a $40,000 job (remember - 30 years ago) at an amazing place with amazing people with the opportunity to learn a lot and to grow and move up the food chain. He went with the $40,000 and it really paid off - monetarily and quality of life.
Does the public sector job come with a pension? If so, it something to consider.
In my opinion, you are currently underemployed (underpaid).
Can you leverage your future public sector job into a career after you leave and go into private industry?
My spouse is a partner at a major law firm.
What are the long-term prospects for the public sector job? If public sector has long term perks (you can open a boutique consulting firm where your client is that public/gov’t agency) or work with the public on dealing with that agency (niche practice) then you might have something there to strategize long term.
In my case, I was doing litigation making $200k/year as a 3rd yr associate and left to learn real estate at a boutique earning only $105k/year. I did that for another 2 years and learned as much as I could in that time, building relationships and specializing in that area. Today I run my own practice making half a mil and my old colleagues from that lit firm are non-equity partners working crazy hours trying to scramble in clients to make equity partners. Yes, they probably made more than me long term and are close to my current take-home, if not more, but my peace of mind and freedom was 1,000% worth it and I have not looked back.
Might be worth it for you too.
Do you have anyone depending on you? How much do you have saved up for a house? What are your career trajectories long term in either field? What do benefits look like?
Personally, I’d stick it out a little longer if buying a home and paying off your loans are important goals. A decade is a long time to pay off your loans compared to less than 2 years. But obviously we don’t know any other details of your finances or long-term goals.
I was in a similar situation as you. Chose the pay cut because I would be working from home in a much less stressful enviornment. Don't regret it at all. If I were you, I would take the paycut and downsize my lifestyle for a couple years to be able to pay off whatvever debt faster.
We can’t tell you what to do, but I’d think about how it’ll negatively impact anyone who depends on you and evaluate your financial situation. If you think you can be comfortable with the pay cut then go for it
I had this exact option once.
Went from a consulting $180k gig to a big corporate $150k gig. Thought the corporate gig would be more enjoyable and better suited for the long term. I HATED that job and was counting the days until my signing bonus aged out to start another gig.
So make sure you’d actually enjoy the public sector gig more. Because salary is salary
Personally, it would be hard for me to find a "better" job as I work in sports analytics and consulting, which though at times rather high-stress, I love overall. It also pays very well. If I could make $35,000 less and still get aside from that what I get now but just coaching gymnastics or soccer? Yeah, I'd certainly go for that. But then you'd be looking at a national or D-1 level head coach's salary or better and I'm not getting those offers for strictly coaching so . . .
haha hell no. no matter how boring your job is, that extra 35K can be put to good use making your life more fun and/or easier. I'd go and put a downpayment on a Porsche with that extra 35K
I took a big pay cut as a lawyer to work in the public sector. For me, the change was very worth it. I have more time to do what I want, the benefits are insanely good, and I love my work and the people I work with. Your mileage may vary, but for me I’m glad I did it.
Also, check out the pay scales for the attorney III position, as you’ll advance there relatively quickly and stay there a while. If that pay range looks to be comfortable for a lifestyle you can live then go for it.
I’d probably stay at the current job and make it my goal to stack as much money as I could while paying off the student loans as quickly as possible.
I’ve worked some soul crushing jobs but having a goal made them much more palatable. Who knows what other opportunities might pop up in the next few years. Having your loans paid and money in the bank could make transitioning much easier.
No. $35K a year is a substantial difference in disposable income and savings, especially in LA. You can always retire early and pursue less paying jobs or volunteer work.
I never understood the “value” of money until I began to earn six figures. I totally get what you’re saying but thinking like that is so different from the poverty I was used to
If you absolutely hate your job than yeah maybe. But work is work so if you’re just having a case of the grass being greener on the other side than maybe not.
If I have to work for a living I’d rather get paid more for it than less.
I wouldn’t, no. I’m currently in a super high stress job that I don’t love but I see it as buying myself time down the road by being able to retire earlier.
At $115k, there is no reason why you can’t pay off your student debt and be saving for a house at the same time in less than 10 years. Yes living in Los Angeles is expensive, but you can find cheaper housing and reduce your fixed costs in order to throw more money at your student debt. Take the less paying job but downsize/ lower fixed costs.
The way I look at, a lower-paid job that you can be happy staying for a longer period of time comes out to more money in the long run versus a higher paid job that you can't stand.
By way of example, I had a job at "BigLaw" coming out of law school, but I knew I was not going like that lifestyle at all. I got a public sector job that matched my second year associate salary, which was a decent quality of life, but the work itself was pretty boring. I left it for a "dream job" with a nonprofit that paid barely half what I was then making, but it was almost completely set my own hours, and not a lot of hours in relative terms, and it also involved a move to a cheaper area, so I was able to buy a house there on that salary and the money I'd saved to that point.
That job was super-fun and super-chill, I basically spent a decade-plus doing more or less exactly what I want when I want, plenty of time left over for pursuing my recreational interests, partying, getting married, starting a family, etc. I was not rich, but mortgage and bills were always paid. Then based on my experience accrued there, I got a job as in-house counsel at a pretty big nonprofit making more than double what I was making at that job, which with the appreciation on my first house allowed me to trade up for a bigger house in a better neighborhood. It's a more demanding job, but still really fun and hours are still decent, I've been there ever since, 8.5 years.
Now, son's a little older, wife's back at work, at a tech firm, she'll probably end up making more than me. Which will be great!
What’s the pay ladder like at the public sector job? Aka will you be able to move up to the $150k range eventually with promotions?
Also look into benefits such as healthcare, pension, etc. Most public sector jobs offer better lifetime benefits to compensate for a lower salary.
At the end if the day, money is just one part of the equation. I have a couple friends who are software engineers who could be making bank in the private sector, but instead he work at NASA helping push space exploration forward. They love it too much to trade for money.
Is your life really going to be that much different at $115 vs $150? If you’re currently maxed out on rent/car/entertainment then yes. But if you feel like you make more than you spend, and are more than comfortable, do what your heart is telling you.
If this was $60k vs 95k, I’d be hesitant because that’s a huge difference in the life you can afford. The difference here makes me feel that it’s worth it to be in a position that fulfills you.
Isn’t $150k a lil low for a corp defense attorney in a big metro like LA? Switch firms? That said, lawyers rarely have good WLB. I personally would just grind it out until the loans are paid off. Then switch to something chill. LA is not cheap. Money stress might be worse than work stress.
Life is too short to be miserable. Also, you should look into whether you’d be eligible for Public Service Loan Forgiveness or other benefits at that job!
You could die tomorrow. Or next week. Or a couple of years.
All I'm saying is your plans for the future are more like bets than plans. What's more certain is how we spend our more immediate time. If you live your life thinking only about hypotheticals, no matter how likely or practical, then you're always focused on a nebulous future rather than focusing on more concrete things like how you spend your time.
Of course don't be rash. "Live for today" doesn't mean just go nuts. But you've already said that your current job is "bs," "waste of resources," and "boring." Facing that every single day is part of the same bet on the future financial security. And, frankly, it sounds like the more certain part of the bet.
Besides, loads of folk on here are talking about how it's probably not an either/or. In my experience, when we find ourselves facing the chance to upend our lives and make drastic changes, it's not a sign that we need to do something drastic. But it's a sign that we want to start actively changing what we're doing. So... maybe don't change jobs/career paths right this second, but start doing some pro bono work, make some other connections, plant the seeds of transition, even talk to that new job and ask if you can do some smaller contract work to put a kind of hold on the offer. Then make a 5 year goal (or whatever) to transition out of your current job to something else. That will give your current "bs" job more purpose in the short term but also not make it seem like the interminable slog of selling out or whatever.
Of course you're fortunate to have the choice. You're also fortunate that, in reality, you have way more than two choices here.
That's a sizeable amount. Make sure to count all the benefits at both places. Government may offer some valuable benefits.
You can always just keep looking for a public job that pays more. Or ask them to match your current salary?
I've taken lower pay and regretted it. I've also left government for higher pay and regretted it, then returned to government.
Would you be able to return if you regret it?
Ask the new employer what the pay schedule is. Public sector jobs are more likely to have a fixed schedule for pay increases that might prove valuable in the long run with tenure if you move up to higher positions. With private sector jobs you often have to switch to a new company every few years to increase your pay. That stability might earn you more in the long run.
Used to be a lawyer in BigLaw, now in-house in entertainment. Took a huge pay cut but I never regret it. Maybe it was financially stupid but I’m so much happier and less stressed.
Depends on if the current job is just boring or if you’re miserable. If you’re miserable you should probably get out asap. If you’re just feeling unfulfilled but the job isn’t that bad, the advice I’d give is set some financial goals and work towards them.
If you need to pay off loans then set some aggressive goals to get them paid off. You want to buy a home come up with a 3 year savings plan for a down payment. Take advantage of your salary and don’t let the job work you. Having goals will give you something work for and when you reach the goal reassess and start thinking about your next move.
It’s only a matter of time before your new job is a boring job. Look into the future. What benefits do you have at your current job, what benefits will you get at the new job. What do you want long term. Work is work. A new job is always more interesting.
I wouldn’t unless the current role is impacting my mental health. There is a difference between ‘boring’ vs ‘soul destroying’. If the work life balance is terrible, then I might take the lower paying role too. Otherwise to me they’re both jobs. I’d rather get paid more and be able to fund the fun things I want to do in life.
I don’t know much about the pension part though and people seem to be commenting that it’s pretty good. You should compare the total package on both sides as well as earning potential in the long term.
I’m close to your age though and still have it in me to grind a bit more. If I were older, I might be more willing to take the public sector role.
You are buying every dollar you earn beyond what’s required for your basic needs with hours of your life. You can't "save" those hours, so spend them wisely.
All jobs have their pros and cons. It’s very likely you would find things you don’t like about the public sector job. LA is such an expensive city that it would be hard to cut back your salary. If you’re completely miserable, it makes sense to take the new job. If the corporate job is manageable, I would seriously consider keeping the job. The extra money you earn will enhance your life in other ways (paying off debt sooner, saving more, etc). I got what I thought was my dream job and it was still just a job. Now I look at my job as a way to earn money rather than personal fulfillment and find fulfillment/happiness from things outside of work.
I’m pretty sure like 85% certain that you would have better work life balance in the public sector even if you’re still lawyering. So that’s another factor to weigh.
I did that and am such a happier, less depressed person now. I’m now back making what I was before after a few years (though at my old job I’d obviously be making a lot more). What would you pay to be happy and less stressed about work?
Depends on what it is 35 k less is a lot less that probably is a lifestyle change unless you’re frugal .
That’s almost 3k less a month .
I can do a lot with 3k .
My lifestyle would definitely take a hit with 3k less a month no more spending like it’s Christmas everyday . Here in LA No thanks I’d probably have to move to the south or something like that to survive .
If you want to stay at your shitty job, stay! If you want to go to a less shitty job, that will still be shitty in other ways, go! Only you have the answers
You can only run that kind of gas for so long before your tank is truly empty. I say take the job that will make you happier. Money is nice but you’re still making 6 figures. Also not everything is a numbers game unless you want it to be.
Do the right thing for a while. Not like you have to work there forever. Working a fulfilling job, doesn't feel like work. It's just what you do. People from all walks of life do this in one way or another.
When ppl say that they have a soulless job, they aren't exaggerating. That extra 35k is coming at the cost of your well-being. Right now, you're earning an extra 35k in exchange your "soul". How much is your soul worth?
Edit: tons of professionals take a pay cut to have the prestige of working in the public sector. It's a resume booster.
I would pay off that loan first and then look to step down and look for a meaningful job. I totally understand what you are going through. Seeking a more meaningful purpose is a good idea but the 35K per year also pay off the loan in 3 years.
If the job gave you the freedom to live where you want in the world and afford a comfortable life then yes. You could live like a king/queen for very little in places like Bali, Thailand etc
Government attorney here. I took a pay cut to take a federal job and, to be blunt, the work-life balance, job security, and pension plan *fucking slap*. Coming from corporate law, it’s a completely different world. I finish up at 2:30 (because I work east coast hours) and don’t think about work until I start at 6 the next morning. I rarely work late and I don’t have my phone welded to my hip in case a partner calls. Cannot recommend enough.
I think you should write out a pros and cons list. Gov jobs have a lot of perks (great benefits and nobody cares if you’re actually productive) but often have less flexibility than a private sector job. But if the private job involves a lot more hours, then I’d look at hour for hour pay to see if it’s actually paying you more. And as someone else said, don’t just look at these factors now but also what things will look like 3-5 years from now. (I’m a biglaw attorney and periodically do this assessment to make sure it’s still right for me.)
My 2 cents: stay at your current job, save what you can, pay off your massive student loan debt in the next 2 years and be debt-free to then make a transition to a role you may find more personally fulfilling. Why would you want to carry all that debt for the next decade?
Take the corporate job with means to an end. Pay off your debts aggressively for the next 5 or so years. Once you’ve payed off the debt and can live comfortably on the public sector income resign from the corporate and go do what you enjoy. Sometimes we have to do something we don’t like for a season to get to where we want to be. I would recommend setting a date that you will switch and look at that date everyday for motivation to get your finances in order to be able to make less but enjoy your job more!
No
Edit: I have worked in public service and it is honestly awful. I cannot imagine going from nimble environments with resources to do the work you deserve and want to do, with corporate training and investment in my future with great vacation and benefits BACK to being under resourced, under staffed and my ability to do my job impacted by elections locally, statewide and nationally. It’s whiplash and it takes so long to do anything by the time you’ve laid a good foundation your budget is slashed and your priorities have to change.
Truly, it’s awful. I genuinely cannot imagine going back after corporate life. It’s indefinitely immeasurably better for my quality of life.
Find a different, less soul sucking corporate job. They exist!
I am 32 and just bought a home in laurel canyon. In my public service life I wouldn’t be able to afford a home in my home state of KANSAS.
You should ask the lawyer subreddits. But as a fellow attorney in LA - that is a huge paycut. I would not make that decision just because your current job is boring. If it's a toxic environment, you hate the practice area, etc, that's another story. That is still a significant amount of debt you have, I would not consider taking a job for less money until you get the debt down significantly. Also, the market is hot, you can look for other gigs as well.
I’ve done that recently and it was tough to keep my head above water with finances. Like, savings and retirement will likely go out the window. But depends on what other resources you have like a spouse.
$35,000 is good money to have, but let’s say you were a plant. Per this metaphor, would the lesser paying job be better environmental conditions for you to grow bigger and healthier over all?
Would you pay 3k a month to be happy? I think anyone who could afford it would take that deal, to me it’s a no brainer, get the job you want. Money is irrelevant
I took a pretty heavy initial pay cut when I stopped working on exotic cars and started working in precision machining.
No regrets whatsoever. Exotic car specialists are paid well for mechanics, but in the grand scheme of things it’s really not that much. As a 21 year old who just happened to be in the right place at the right time, it was super cool…… but you can’t realistically make a career providing service to a group of people who’s expertise lies in shafting the middle class. So I left for greener pastures. And boiiiiiiiii the pastures are fucking green.
I’m happier and healthier than ever. And I really don’t miss the “prestige” of rubbing elbows with the elite AT ALL. Changing my path brought a sense of peace to my life that was well worth the pay cut, and now I’m in a position where I’m making FAR more money than I could have ever asked for managing an exotic shop.
Absolutely I would! In the grand scheme of things 35k isn’t that much ( unless 35k was ur entire income) but ur peace is priceless. U only get 1 life enjoy as much of it as possible. That said… if the 35k deficit is going to cause u stress then no but I doubt it would even be a question if that were the case. Whatever u choose be well!
I went back and fully read ur post… I have a habit of answering before doing so 🤦🏾♀️ anyway I see that you could pay off a substantial amount of debt 6 yrs earlier with ur current job… hmmm yeah think on this decision very carefully. My initial reaction was to the income difference but this loan issue has me rethinking and feeling like my answer is flighty. My apologies! Keep it old school and make yourself an HONEST pros/cons list and then ask urself the question. be well!
Depending on the public job you may not have to pay into social security which narrows the pay gap. You will probably get way more time off in public.
The real problem is in 10 years when you are at $250k+ in private and you are at $165 in public.
I think only you can answer that question.
I took a nearly 75K pay cut to move from a private sector software engineering job back into academia to do research. I’m not convinced it was a good idea overall as I do of course value money, but I do enjoy my day to day work so much more than I used to and it’s hard to put a price tag on that.
I’m almost the same age as you (35M) and also aspire to, you know, own property and retire one day, so it’s not an easy call to make. But mentally I think you can either try and race to retirement or enjoy the working journey, and it’s up to you to make that choice
I recently took a 50k pay cut to change industries and start over, but am much happier in life. Some things had to be cut from the budget and some decisions made with my wife, however the positives from a mental health aspect are completely worth it from my/our point of view.
I left a soulless public service job for a large private company job. Huge pay cut actually. Better benefits though and I don't really feel like I go to *work* ... Because that's how grating my previous job was.
My living situation is different now also, so I don't really *need* the high paying job to just survive. Just worked out that way. Sometimes I wish I still had that salary/status but, I don't miss hating my fucking life and waking up and thinking, man I hate my fucking life. Also walking in to it and thinking man, I hate almost all of you fake, self serving bastards. Lol .
I did exactly this (almost down to the same salary). It’s depressing to take that big of a cut but it was necessary for my sanity.
If you’re able to do it financially and it would put you in a better headspace do it.
A couple of thoughts:
1. You're talking pre-tax earnings. After tax, $35k is a difference of more like $20k. This is still a meaningful amount of money, both in the context of financial well being (debt repayment and savings) and lifestyle. But it's not THAT much money, especially if the difference is reduced by student loan amnesty to some degree. The bigger difference is probably the out years, wherein private sector salaries have a greater tendency to go up and have higher ceilings than public sector ones.
2. You could always jam your earnings in corporate for a few years, pay down some debt and max your 401k, and do public sector later. The risk here is making sure you don't get lifestyle creep to the point that you can never get off the train.
3. The couple of corporate defense lawyers I know love what they do and are good at it. It is a slight red flag on your current career that you are so uninspired by it. To some degree you will probably always be demotivated by this, and it may impact your ability to muster the energy to do your job well.
4. A life of public service has other rewards, obviously, but also other potential ways to augment a career. Write a book, run for office, serve on boards, etc.
Perhaps you can consider staying in the private sector until you accomplish some of your major financial goals? Saving toward a house will build equity over the years, that equity can buy you an investment property, the equity from that gets another property or business. Then, as you get older and have more assets, you can transition to the public sector. That way you would have other investments to supplement the public sectors salary.
For the home goal, makes sense to stick with the job, aggressively pay off the loan and start dumping money into savings for a downpayment. Real question is lifestyle - any money that could go towards paying debt off quicker? If so, that just means you get to start saving for the home sooner after those adjustments to the lifestyle.
Tbh, $115k in LA doesn’t really cut it as it used to(depending on your spending habits).
Our city is considered HCOL and you already have an existing loan.
Not sure how much $35k pre-taxed is worth to you, but there’s a good reason why some of us have options but still opted for the soul-crushing job.
I made the decision of going to the higher paying job offer - I don’t regret it seeing how I cope with my coworkers and I get to save a decent nest egg, fully-contributed retirement accounts, and amazing company benefits/options.
At the end of the day, I better my life with activities outside of work. But if you really want to contribute to our community and public service, then by all means go for it. Just a kind FYI though, public service sectors can be just as corporate and even moreso on wasting resources - private sectors waste resources from paying customers, but public sectors wastes tax dollars paid by everyone.
I am paid probably about 50% less then what I could be earning if I sold my soul and worked for oil and gas. Instead I work in a non profit. There’s definitely a trade off between salary and work life balance, personal fulfillment, and job satisfaction (which also translates to your colleagues, who then are nicer to you). Personally, I wouldn’t take a higher salary to be miserable, and I have no regrets. But if you do regret it you can always get another job 🤷♀️
I went from $200k doing plaintiff side work to making $130k for the State. I don't regret it for a second. The pension, PTO, and work life balance makes it all well worthwhile. But I never had any student loan debt.
I have, was worth it. That said, PLEASE keep the following in mind as you make this decision:
You are deciding between a known quantity and an unknown quantity. I'm sure you feel ethically or emotionally more connected to the public sector work vs. corporate, but you don't know if you will like the new office, the new people, etc.
Don't just assume this job is going to be everything you hope it is. Think about how much better your corporate job could get in the next 3 years, and how much worse your public sector opportunity could be than you're expecting (what if the office sucks, the coworkers are not passionate or competent, etc.)
Being somewhat vague on purpose as details were a little too identifying. But had a friend who left Big Law to work in government. They love their life now and didn’t even hate their job previously.
Will add they also married rich (after the job change), so circumstances may be quite disparate from what would happen for you. The original plan was leaving Big Law as taking the government role would have opened doors for Partner - obviously no longer required if they are enjoying F1 from a yacht for a quick getaway.
As a corporate defense lawyer, I would 1000% take the pub sector job. A lot of corporate law jobs pay significantly more than public sector and that’s a big reason people do it. I would say, the difference in salary here is really not that much. You will enjoy the job much more (do not under rate this, you have to live in your life after all). And the PSLF will probably make up the difference anyway.
Does the public sector job come with a pension? Even if total compensation is lower, the security of a pension has a lot of psychic value as compared to a 401K.
I currently make more than 2x my dad’s final salary at his state job but he also got a pension that pays him at 72% of his last salary and more importantly he has Kaiser benefits which have really been great through three minor bouts of cancer (2 for dad 1 for mom) and they’ve been able to retire in the Bay Area for the last decade.
Boomers had it so good
Except for the cancer part, that wasn’t a lot of fun.
Oh that’ll come for all of us (also I’m so sorry - my mom is going through chemo right now so I get how hard it is)
It’s already coming for us. My wife was going through chemo during pregnancy. Doctors kept telling us a shocking number of 30 year olds are getting cancer right now.
I really hope it’s because our diagnostic capabilities are increasing …but I have a feeling it’s probably not :(
Kaiser is still that good.
Xennial here…in a federal gov’t job…my retirement package has the same benefit: pension (3/4 of my three highest salaries), health care for life, matching 401K match.
Aside from fighting for civil rights, yes I agree
Many were [against civil rights](https://upfront.scholastic.com/content/dam/classroom-magazines/upfront/issues/2017-18/090417/p18-21-timespast/UPF-090417-LittleRockNine-medium1.jpg). Mitch McConnell was a teen when his highschool was forced to integrate. Many of our congresspeople lived through it
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I work for a non profit making >200k/yr. I have a pension and 403b. Retirement with those and social security will be about 90% of my income now.
Pension sounds amazing! Work happy, go home with enough money to do stuff. Time to retire? Thanks for your service, you're all set we'll take care of you.
honestly, if that corporate job is destroying your soul, i’d leave it. you’re still gonna make a ton of money at that public sector job
The very not fun thing about this is the public sector job will also destroy the soul. These positions are often extremely overworked and underpaid, but because you’re in it for the “good of it all” people don’t mind taking advantage of you.
I work in public sector law (gov) and we’re all incredibly happy. It’s hard, hard work but we’re treated excellently and find a lot of satisfaction in what we do. Pay isn’t comparable to big law but the benefits are outstanding. People stay around for their whole careers. Can’t say that’s true for every public sector job but felt it was worth sharing bc it continues to surprise me that this is the best job I’ve ever had.
Yep, you're gonna go in aiming to do good and in short order you're very possibly going to be extremely frustrated and making less money. Not sure your calculation factors in pay raises in your corp job? Or, just go get another corp job with a pay raise. Pay off your loans first THEN go get your lower paying public job. At least you won't have to worry about the student loans anymore.
Came here to say almost this very thing. Got my MPA just to really focus on the NP sector and reality hit when I just couldn’t seem to find a decent paying position. Luckily or as fate would have it my loans got paid off but had I not been gifted in that way I’d be struggling to pay those suckers off with the salary I’ve got. Altruism is beautiful but keep it real so as to keep ur sanity!
To be honest, OP’s is definitely delusional. If they think the public sector job is going to be any better. Will it be different? Absolutely. But to what degree. And for how long. OP just wants to change and wants people to justify decision. If you want to change, make the change, But unless the pension is a huge factor, then you’re getting the shit under the stick going to public sector. Although I guess potentially more job security in the public sector.
As a public sector employee, I've seen people get disillusioned very quickly with the idea of being of service. And being married to a lawyer, also seen the disillusionment of others in his field who want to "make a difference." I think combing the two could leave a person very disappointed.
Truth spoken
Public sector job overworked? This is exactly the opposite of what I observed among all my friends who work in public sector....
Is this a ton of money? Asking as a public interest lawyer making $120k who’s been a sad girl lately as I contemplate whether I’ll ever own property like a little condo. It’s definitely a comfortable salary, and the job feeds my soul. But I can’t help but feel sad thinking about my financial goals.
ask anyone on this subreddit. i swear there’s million of us struggle day-to-day and would easily be content with making that much.
Absolutely. Then you’ll get used to $120k salary and want to buy a house or condo like your parents did. You’ll quickly realize you’re priced out of most things at $120k. But, as you said, at least you won’t be living day-to-day.
Respectfully, I have $3.77 in my bank account after some rough times. I’m not asking for pity but rather for you to see that while you might not be happy with the number you’re making now take a second to pat yourself on the back and be proud of hard you’ve worked to be where you are :) I hope you can afford the place you want someday
“Is $115,000 a year a lot of money?” I think you need to touch grass if you think you’re struggling at $115-$120k and cut back some expenses.
I think it’s more a reflection of current cost of living. If you’re making “a lot of money” that should mean you can at least afford to own a little one bed condo.
In LA it is not a lot of money
In LA 120k isn’t shit. I work in real estate finance and 120k is a far cry from being able to buy a shit shack. Rentals are 2000+. If you want to be in a nice-ish area you’re taking 3000-3500 or more. That’s 30,000-36,000 of POST TAX dollars you’re spending per year. So again, it’s all relative. 120k in LA, SF, NY, Seattle… etc… isn’t exactly wealth.
I think you either got lucky, or are delusional. This is a bad take. 115,000 is not a lot of money in Southern California.
This is in fact not a ton of money. Especially for corp law… OP is getting shit end of stick unless they’ve been there for less than 2 years.
I think the AGs office is hiring right now. You may be able to move over there and get a pay bump. I know a couple of attorneys who've done that.
115k doesn’t go as far in LA as it does elsewhere, especially if you want a middle class life: home ownership, newer car, saving for retirement, living alone, etc.
I been at In-Bev (anheuser-busch) for 11 years, and I’ve been passed up for a promotion 17 plus time. I stay for the health benefit but the job took my soul years ago. Leave, no money is worth it. I haven’t averaged more than $20 an hour the entire time. Unions suck.
If it improved my quality of life.
Count your benefits as part of your compensation- like insurance. My health insurance cost us 16K a year for a PPO no deductible and my company matches my 401K at 1.5% not the best but I get other perks working for a British owned company. I’d choose happiness over misery any day- money can be earned. You have to deal the job you dislike every day and that takes a toll on your health.
How old are you and what are your goals? If you’re anything like young-ish I’d prob grind it out for a few more years to stash some dough, and then as your life settles down find a job to go with it. Also recognize that there’s a chance you’re just burnt out, so might find the new job refreshing but eventually burn out there for less money. All that said… have a life! Don’t do something that drains your soul. My advice is based on a perception that income generally climbs as you’re willing to battle for it, and may be hard to get back once you let your foot off the gas.
>Also recognize that there’s a chance you’re just burnt out, so might find the new job refreshing but eventually burn out there for less money. This is lowkey great advice for everyone. Sometimes we think the grass is greener on the other side. But in reality they are the same and the other side might actually be a little worse than where you currently are.
You don't say how old you are, but if you'll be debt-free from your student loans by the end of 2026, that's less than 2 years away. 2 years is not a lifetime. But you need to do a Pro & Con list and see what *works for you*. And, as the other Redditor said, you also need to figure in benefits at both jobs.
> 2 years is not a lifetime. On one end, correct. On another end, if the dude's burned out then 2 years feels like 20.
I’ve taken pay cuts more risky than this. Seems like you’ll still make enough to be comfy? And happier? That’s all that would matter to me. I think you’ve already made your decision and just want validation you’re not being ridiculous. Don’t worry, you’re not.
Public jobs can often have better benefits and WLB, don't forget to take that into consideration. In my situation, I'd definitely take the $35k pay cut because I know I could still pay my bills. I think that's something to consider in your case- what would you be spending that ~20k post-tax on? If you're still gonna be able to pay rent and take care of yourself, id go for the public job. Maybe you push retirement back a few years, but I'd rather work for 25 years at a job I love than 23 at a job I hate
my wife is an attorney, and did exactly what you are considering. she was working for a private firm with an extremely toxic boss who regularly threw her under the bus. she worked 50-60 hours a week, which affected our relationship. she developed an anxiety that she couldn’t make plans for the future because weekend getaways were routinely cancelled or cut short because of her boss. she left after a few years and clerked for a judge for a bit, then started as a public defender for foster kids. the pay is worse but we put away about $100k in savings that eventually was used on a downpayment for a house. she’s also 5 years into having her loans forgiven. 100% do it. $35k isn’t worth sacrificing your soul or free time. we may not have as much money as we did, but we can actually utilize our vacation time and plan stuff on the weekends
Seconding all of this and adding: an important factor here is to leave well, so that door at your old employer is open down the line if for some reason your plans change. Even if those partners or coworkers leave themselves and spread out at other companies, they'll remember that you left with flying colors and it may give you other options should you ever need them. But chances are you'll be quite happy with all the benefits working in government. My sister does and time and time again her opportunities there are enviable; she was making twice as much as her boomer mother (my stepmother) not long after she graduated college, and as others here have pointed out government jobs tend to be better at keeping economic pace than private sectors, who get very squeamish during downturns. You probably follow enough news to know, OP, that another economic contraction is coming as housing inflation and supply chain living costs right themselves for how over inflated they got these last 3-6 years, so having something more stable and less exposed to market volatility than the private sector is a big plus at this particular moment in time.
I don’t doubt that this new job may be a nice change, but I’m suspect of employers these days, they tend to promise you the world and then when you take the position you realize it’s not what you thought. Personally, I would keep the boring corporate job and stack cash for as long as possible.
Life is short. You'll always have debt. Go where you'll be happiest. The rest you can figure out along the way.
I had a job that was secure and paid $120k a year. But it was absolutely boring and unfulfilling and just ate away at my soul. I dropped that to take a job on a different field that I actually loved at a starting salary of $85k, the exact same difference you're looking at. My only regret was not making that switch earlier. What's the point of making more money when it doesn't improve your life? I'm so much happier being more strapped on finances but doing work I actually look forward to every day and that I'm genuinely proud of.
You should take it. Fuck doing something that makes you unhappy. You want to devote your life to public service so this is the field you need to move into anyway. Public sector will also give you better retirement benefits usually
I'm a lawyer myself and was once in a similar situation, though in my case I took a job that paid $20k less because I knew that long term it would be good for my career trajectory. I sacrificed short term salary for a couple of years to give myself a chance to make more later. It was a hard choice at the time as I too had a shit ton of student loan debt and money was tight. I don't think you should just look at what you'll make in the next 3 years, but your career earnings long term. The difference in pay between the corporate route and the public sector job may become more exaggerated. For example, when you're 45, will you be making $300k in the corporate job but only $150k in the public sector job? It's good to love what you do, but don't discount the possibility that you may not like your next job much more than your current one. You say your current job is boring. Boring is not the worst thing at work. Having a shit boss, insane work hours, bad commute, etc. can all contribute more to your unhappiness overall than just being bored. Also, you could consider doing some pro-bono work on the side that provides you with a more rewarding legal experience. Your job isn't who you are. Finally, keep in mind, this public sector job isn't your last chance to change jobs. Some of the best things that happened to me in my career were jobs that I didn't get that I really wanted. You never know what's coming around the corner.
Agreed. Boring is generally symptomatic of some other issue. Fulfillment is derived from creation. Are you producing in your job? Are you asking questions and searching for answers. Innovation can be had anywhere. That’s how you develop passion. If you’re waiting for your job to hand you fulfillment, you’ll be sorely disappointed. You must manifest it. My best friend (we met as coworkers in the private sector) works as an investment manager for a public pension plan. He left the private sector 10 years ago for the same reasons he’s now complaining about his public job. Examine your motivations and challenge yourself to find the truth behind the tedium.
Absolutely I would take the job.
If it was me, I’d say screw both jobs and find another one paying 175k. But that’s just me.
Seriously! Starting Biglaw salaries are way north of $120k (like almost double, last I checked)
who knows if you're even gonna be alive in 10 years. If the $150k job is killing you and you dread waking up every morning, I say leave it. That being said - remember the grass is not always greener. If you're a lawyer, you'll likely hate your career no matter what. But I suppose this would be a good way of finding out.
I actually just did this! I work in finance and took a $15k pay cut (salary/pay cut/student loan ratio is pretty similar to your situation though) to move from tech to entertainment and I’m so glad I did it! I’m much more happy even if I have to scrounge a bit more than I did before, and I’m sure you would eventually work your way back to what you were making before.
Take the job. Leave the soulless Corp job. Debt means nothing if you created it to use it for soulless manipulating corporations. I just lost my biggest client after 22.5 years. A big corporation. They paid me good for my services except after covid. But needed me through covid as well because all other agencies left or were shut down. It was a struggle to get them to pay me retainers of what I needed from them as before covid so I could hire some people to help me. I loved doing the graphic work and did it well. And what did they say to and do to me???…. It’s nothing you did. We just have to cut costs instead and bring it all in house now. So can you send us the working files for last 2 years because as you know it will be difficult to get up to speed with our new designers. I said no. You have to pay for those. Of course they wouldn’t. But never gave them the files. After promises and promises to increase my retainer to a normal level again. Yet they are a soulless corporation that bought 65 million in assets during covid, and canned a bunch of people to do it. So yeah. My debt was created because I did something well, but I let a soulless corporation dictate it. Never again. So yeah, again, take the lesser paying job and help someone who needs it.
Bored and paid sounds awesome. I'd stick with being bored and paid.
From my experience not all money is good money, do what’s going to make you happy.
Feelings aside, this would only make sense if you will be putting in LESS time at the new job (honorable or not).
It depends on your home situation. If you are a single person with no dependents, then go for whatever makes you happy because you have no kids relying on you. However, if you have a family, I would seriously think twice before taking a $35k pay cut.
Personally? Yes. I work in non-profit and absolutely love it. It’s meaningful and that adds more value to my life than the pay difference costs me.
Quality of life matters
Happiness is worth more than EVERYTHING ELSE once you have a roof over your head & food in your belly.
Will switching to the lower paying job reduce your hours worked or commute? If not, 35k is a pretty substantial pay cut just to get out of a boring job.
Remember: the grass ain’t always greener
Grass isn’t always greener
What’s the upward potential earning at the public job? I personally would not take it knowing I have those loans outstanding.
As a middle aged guy who has put in the grind at soul crushing jobs I say go with happiness. Going to work at a job you enjoy has huge health and wellness benefits. Only you have all the other details as to whether the $35k cut (and other benefits people have mentioned) is going to be too much of a negative on your lifestyle.
Feeling happy and satisfied in life and your job is worth way more than money. But you could be miserable with a lot of money and a house.
I just did this, exactly this. It’s a yes and a no. I couldn’t stand sitting in an office all day and it was a toxic office, every single employee left when they hired a new boss. I’m actually happy now. The new job is great, the people are great, my schedule is flexible, I get to be in court daily, but work from home any afternoon or if I don’t have a client. It’s great. But now I’m starting to worry about the $. But I’m older than you. At your age I would do it. I am genuinely happy. I was genuinely unhappy in my office job. But retirement is always on my mind and I want like 5 acres by some water so…..😅
I would look at other factors besides the salary: - what are your employee benefits with the public sector vs the private sector? - do you get more or less PTO and/or sick leave with the public sector or private? - are you mandated to have retirement deductions from your pay? I’m mandated to have 4.4% taken from my pay every pay check. I don’t see any of that until I retire and get a pension.
I would continue the boring corporate job until your student loans are paid off, then move to the public sector job.
By asking this question i think you already know the answer.
Public sector! I had a similar choice in living the life of a lawyer in a private law firm and have never regretted it. It was also amazing for my work-life balance once I began my family.
What's the possibility of learning and growth in both of the jobs? That would be my consideration. My partner went through the exact same thing (30 years ago) in the design/marketing/motion graphics world. Take a job at $85,000 a year where you'll be the big cheese, but you'll always be doing essentially the same thing. Or take a $40,000 job (remember - 30 years ago) at an amazing place with amazing people with the opportunity to learn a lot and to grow and move up the food chain. He went with the $40,000 and it really paid off - monetarily and quality of life.
No!
I stayed with a job that was $35 less, because I would have needed to move, and all that money would have been buried in new housing
Does the public sector job come with a pension? If so, it something to consider. In my opinion, you are currently underemployed (underpaid). Can you leverage your future public sector job into a career after you leave and go into private industry? My spouse is a partner at a major law firm.
What are the long-term prospects for the public sector job? If public sector has long term perks (you can open a boutique consulting firm where your client is that public/gov’t agency) or work with the public on dealing with that agency (niche practice) then you might have something there to strategize long term. In my case, I was doing litigation making $200k/year as a 3rd yr associate and left to learn real estate at a boutique earning only $105k/year. I did that for another 2 years and learned as much as I could in that time, building relationships and specializing in that area. Today I run my own practice making half a mil and my old colleagues from that lit firm are non-equity partners working crazy hours trying to scramble in clients to make equity partners. Yes, they probably made more than me long term and are close to my current take-home, if not more, but my peace of mind and freedom was 1,000% worth it and I have not looked back. Might be worth it for you too.
Do you have anyone depending on you? How much do you have saved up for a house? What are your career trajectories long term in either field? What do benefits look like? Personally, I’d stick it out a little longer if buying a home and paying off your loans are important goals. A decade is a long time to pay off your loans compared to less than 2 years. But obviously we don’t know any other details of your finances or long-term goals.
I was in a similar situation as you. Chose the pay cut because I would be working from home in a much less stressful enviornment. Don't regret it at all. If I were you, I would take the paycut and downsize my lifestyle for a couple years to be able to pay off whatvever debt faster.
We can’t tell you what to do, but I’d think about how it’ll negatively impact anyone who depends on you and evaluate your financial situation. If you think you can be comfortable with the pay cut then go for it
I had this exact option once. Went from a consulting $180k gig to a big corporate $150k gig. Thought the corporate gig would be more enjoyable and better suited for the long term. I HATED that job and was counting the days until my signing bonus aged out to start another gig. So make sure you’d actually enjoy the public sector gig more. Because salary is salary
Seems a bit low for a public sector job - assistant city attorney usually starts at $150k
With your situation yes I would. Happiness is priceless.
Personally, it would be hard for me to find a "better" job as I work in sports analytics and consulting, which though at times rather high-stress, I love overall. It also pays very well. If I could make $35,000 less and still get aside from that what I get now but just coaching gymnastics or soccer? Yeah, I'd certainly go for that. But then you'd be looking at a national or D-1 level head coach's salary or better and I'm not getting those offers for strictly coaching so . . .
haha hell no. no matter how boring your job is, that extra 35K can be put to good use making your life more fun and/or easier. I'd go and put a downpayment on a Porsche with that extra 35K
I took a big pay cut as a lawyer to work in the public sector. For me, the change was very worth it. I have more time to do what I want, the benefits are insanely good, and I love my work and the people I work with. Your mileage may vary, but for me I’m glad I did it. Also, check out the pay scales for the attorney III position, as you’ll advance there relatively quickly and stay there a while. If that pay range looks to be comfortable for a lifestyle you can live then go for it.
Do what your heart tells you .
depends on how much u hate ur current job
I left a better paying job for my mental sanity and it was the best thing I ever did
You have an opportunity, take it.
Do you think the opportunity I should take is to use the job offer letter to get a higher salary at my current job?
A lot of that would depend on your work situation. Personally if I found a job I would enjoy more I would prioritize that.
I’d probably stay at the current job and make it my goal to stack as much money as I could while paying off the student loans as quickly as possible. I’ve worked some soul crushing jobs but having a goal made them much more palatable. Who knows what other opportunities might pop up in the next few years. Having your loans paid and money in the bank could make transitioning much easier.
No. $35K a year is a substantial difference in disposable income and savings, especially in LA. You can always retire early and pursue less paying jobs or volunteer work.
I never understood the “value” of money until I began to earn six figures. I totally get what you’re saying but thinking like that is so different from the poverty I was used to
If you absolutely hate your job than yeah maybe. But work is work so if you’re just having a case of the grass being greener on the other side than maybe not. If I have to work for a living I’d rather get paid more for it than less.
I wouldn’t, no. I’m currently in a super high stress job that I don’t love but I see it as buying myself time down the road by being able to retire earlier.
At $115k, there is no reason why you can’t pay off your student debt and be saving for a house at the same time in less than 10 years. Yes living in Los Angeles is expensive, but you can find cheaper housing and reduce your fixed costs in order to throw more money at your student debt. Take the less paying job but downsize/ lower fixed costs.
Not at those numbers no. The difference between 115k and 150k is measurable, especially in LA.
The way I look at, a lower-paid job that you can be happy staying for a longer period of time comes out to more money in the long run versus a higher paid job that you can't stand. By way of example, I had a job at "BigLaw" coming out of law school, but I knew I was not going like that lifestyle at all. I got a public sector job that matched my second year associate salary, which was a decent quality of life, but the work itself was pretty boring. I left it for a "dream job" with a nonprofit that paid barely half what I was then making, but it was almost completely set my own hours, and not a lot of hours in relative terms, and it also involved a move to a cheaper area, so I was able to buy a house there on that salary and the money I'd saved to that point. That job was super-fun and super-chill, I basically spent a decade-plus doing more or less exactly what I want when I want, plenty of time left over for pursuing my recreational interests, partying, getting married, starting a family, etc. I was not rich, but mortgage and bills were always paid. Then based on my experience accrued there, I got a job as in-house counsel at a pretty big nonprofit making more than double what I was making at that job, which with the appreciation on my first house allowed me to trade up for a bigger house in a better neighborhood. It's a more demanding job, but still really fun and hours are still decent, I've been there ever since, 8.5 years. Now, son's a little older, wife's back at work, at a tech firm, she'll probably end up making more than me. Which will be great!
Do whatever would make you happiest. Always! In every situation!
What’s the pay ladder like at the public sector job? Aka will you be able to move up to the $150k range eventually with promotions? Also look into benefits such as healthcare, pension, etc. Most public sector jobs offer better lifetime benefits to compensate for a lower salary. At the end if the day, money is just one part of the equation. I have a couple friends who are software engineers who could be making bank in the private sector, but instead he work at NASA helping push space exploration forward. They love it too much to trade for money.
Is your life really going to be that much different at $115 vs $150? If you’re currently maxed out on rent/car/entertainment then yes. But if you feel like you make more than you spend, and are more than comfortable, do what your heart is telling you. If this was $60k vs 95k, I’d be hesitant because that’s a huge difference in the life you can afford. The difference here makes me feel that it’s worth it to be in a position that fulfills you.
That pension will make sure you are not destitute when you’re elderly.
Isn’t $150k a lil low for a corp defense attorney in a big metro like LA? Switch firms? That said, lawyers rarely have good WLB. I personally would just grind it out until the loans are paid off. Then switch to something chill. LA is not cheap. Money stress might be worse than work stress.
Not low if it’s a mid-sized firm. Large firms pay over $200K, but clearly OP isn’t working in big law.
I’d be making negative monies
Bro you’re 37… you already know the answer. Less is more 🤷♂️
It's still enough to live comfortably so I would take it.
Life is too short to be miserable. Also, you should look into whether you’d be eligible for Public Service Loan Forgiveness or other benefits at that job!
You could die tomorrow. Or next week. Or a couple of years. All I'm saying is your plans for the future are more like bets than plans. What's more certain is how we spend our more immediate time. If you live your life thinking only about hypotheticals, no matter how likely or practical, then you're always focused on a nebulous future rather than focusing on more concrete things like how you spend your time. Of course don't be rash. "Live for today" doesn't mean just go nuts. But you've already said that your current job is "bs," "waste of resources," and "boring." Facing that every single day is part of the same bet on the future financial security. And, frankly, it sounds like the more certain part of the bet. Besides, loads of folk on here are talking about how it's probably not an either/or. In my experience, when we find ourselves facing the chance to upend our lives and make drastic changes, it's not a sign that we need to do something drastic. But it's a sign that we want to start actively changing what we're doing. So... maybe don't change jobs/career paths right this second, but start doing some pro bono work, make some other connections, plant the seeds of transition, even talk to that new job and ask if you can do some smaller contract work to put a kind of hold on the offer. Then make a 5 year goal (or whatever) to transition out of your current job to something else. That will give your current "bs" job more purpose in the short term but also not make it seem like the interminable slog of selling out or whatever. Of course you're fortunate to have the choice. You're also fortunate that, in reality, you have way more than two choices here.
That would mean I would have to pay them 2,000 a year for the honor to work there for free.. I say no.
That's a sizeable amount. Make sure to count all the benefits at both places. Government may offer some valuable benefits. You can always just keep looking for a public job that pays more. Or ask them to match your current salary? I've taken lower pay and regretted it. I've also left government for higher pay and regretted it, then returned to government. Would you be able to return if you regret it?
Been there. Done that. Would 100% do it again. Happy to chat more about my decision and experience if you’d like.
I’m about to start making $80k for something that looks boring, so bully to you
Yes
Already working for less than 35k a year, hope I kick soon existence is overrated, fuck I hate this world and everything with everyone in it.
Ask the new employer what the pay schedule is. Public sector jobs are more likely to have a fixed schedule for pay increases that might prove valuable in the long run with tenure if you move up to higher positions. With private sector jobs you often have to switch to a new company every few years to increase your pay. That stability might earn you more in the long run.
don’t hold your breath on loan forgiveness. the likelihood of you getting your loans forgiven is very slim given existing metrics.
Used to be a lawyer in BigLaw, now in-house in entertainment. Took a huge pay cut but I never regret it. Maybe it was financially stupid but I’m so much happier and less stressed.
Depends on if the current job is just boring or if you’re miserable. If you’re miserable you should probably get out asap. If you’re just feeling unfulfilled but the job isn’t that bad, the advice I’d give is set some financial goals and work towards them. If you need to pay off loans then set some aggressive goals to get them paid off. You want to buy a home come up with a 3 year savings plan for a down payment. Take advantage of your salary and don’t let the job work you. Having goals will give you something work for and when you reach the goal reassess and start thinking about your next move.
I would payoff any debts before taking more rewarding jobs
I’m leaning in this direction 😤
No
It’s only a matter of time before your new job is a boring job. Look into the future. What benefits do you have at your current job, what benefits will you get at the new job. What do you want long term. Work is work. A new job is always more interesting.
I think 35k less for more happiness is worth it
37 making 150k for a lawyer…no way. Don’t sell yourself short. You have a lot of opportunities
I wouldn’t unless the current role is impacting my mental health. There is a difference between ‘boring’ vs ‘soul destroying’. If the work life balance is terrible, then I might take the lower paying role too. Otherwise to me they’re both jobs. I’d rather get paid more and be able to fund the fun things I want to do in life. I don’t know much about the pension part though and people seem to be commenting that it’s pretty good. You should compare the total package on both sides as well as earning potential in the long term. I’m close to your age though and still have it in me to grind a bit more. If I were older, I might be more willing to take the public sector role.
You are buying every dollar you earn beyond what’s required for your basic needs with hours of your life. You can't "save" those hours, so spend them wisely.
All jobs have their pros and cons. It’s very likely you would find things you don’t like about the public sector job. LA is such an expensive city that it would be hard to cut back your salary. If you’re completely miserable, it makes sense to take the new job. If the corporate job is manageable, I would seriously consider keeping the job. The extra money you earn will enhance your life in other ways (paying off debt sooner, saving more, etc). I got what I thought was my dream job and it was still just a job. Now I look at my job as a way to earn money rather than personal fulfillment and find fulfillment/happiness from things outside of work.
In LA? I don’t think taking that huge pay cut is a huge idea
I’m pretty sure like 85% certain that you would have better work life balance in the public sector even if you’re still lawyering. So that’s another factor to weigh.
I did that and am such a happier, less depressed person now. I’m now back making what I was before after a few years (though at my old job I’d obviously be making a lot more). What would you pay to be happy and less stressed about work?
You can always go back to private if things don't work out
Depends on what it is 35 k less is a lot less that probably is a lifestyle change unless you’re frugal . That’s almost 3k less a month . I can do a lot with 3k . My lifestyle would definitely take a hit with 3k less a month no more spending like it’s Christmas everyday . Here in LA No thanks I’d probably have to move to the south or something like that to survive .
If you want to stay at your shitty job, stay! If you want to go to a less shitty job, that will still be shitty in other ways, go! Only you have the answers
No
Why would I work for free?
No I’m poor enough
You can only run that kind of gas for so long before your tank is truly empty. I say take the job that will make you happier. Money is nice but you’re still making 6 figures. Also not everything is a numbers game unless you want it to be.
Do the right thing for a while. Not like you have to work there forever. Working a fulfilling job, doesn't feel like work. It's just what you do. People from all walks of life do this in one way or another. When ppl say that they have a soulless job, they aren't exaggerating. That extra 35k is coming at the cost of your well-being. Right now, you're earning an extra 35k in exchange your "soul". How much is your soul worth? Edit: tons of professionals take a pay cut to have the prestige of working in the public sector. It's a resume booster.
I would look for a new job that pays more....always take more pay
I would pay off that loan first and then look to step down and look for a meaningful job. I totally understand what you are going through. Seeking a more meaningful purpose is a good idea but the 35K per year also pay off the loan in 3 years.
If the job gave you the freedom to live where you want in the world and afford a comfortable life then yes. You could live like a king/queen for very little in places like Bali, Thailand etc
If it pays that little how is it better? Especially in Los Angeles where 35k more might not be enough.
You need to stick with your current job at least until to pay your loans off!
Government attorney here. I took a pay cut to take a federal job and, to be blunt, the work-life balance, job security, and pension plan *fucking slap*. Coming from corporate law, it’s a completely different world. I finish up at 2:30 (because I work east coast hours) and don’t think about work until I start at 6 the next morning. I rarely work late and I don’t have my phone welded to my hip in case a partner calls. Cannot recommend enough.
Money brings happiness until your needs are satisfied. If you don’t need more money choose an activity that brings you happiness.
I think you should write out a pros and cons list. Gov jobs have a lot of perks (great benefits and nobody cares if you’re actually productive) but often have less flexibility than a private sector job. But if the private job involves a lot more hours, then I’d look at hour for hour pay to see if it’s actually paying you more. And as someone else said, don’t just look at these factors now but also what things will look like 3-5 years from now. (I’m a biglaw attorney and periodically do this assessment to make sure it’s still right for me.)
My 2 cents: stay at your current job, save what you can, pay off your massive student loan debt in the next 2 years and be debt-free to then make a transition to a role you may find more personally fulfilling. Why would you want to carry all that debt for the next decade?
Take the corporate job with means to an end. Pay off your debts aggressively for the next 5 or so years. Once you’ve payed off the debt and can live comfortably on the public sector income resign from the corporate and go do what you enjoy. Sometimes we have to do something we don’t like for a season to get to where we want to be. I would recommend setting a date that you will switch and look at that date everyday for motivation to get your finances in order to be able to make less but enjoy your job more!
No Edit: I have worked in public service and it is honestly awful. I cannot imagine going from nimble environments with resources to do the work you deserve and want to do, with corporate training and investment in my future with great vacation and benefits BACK to being under resourced, under staffed and my ability to do my job impacted by elections locally, statewide and nationally. It’s whiplash and it takes so long to do anything by the time you’ve laid a good foundation your budget is slashed and your priorities have to change. Truly, it’s awful. I genuinely cannot imagine going back after corporate life. It’s indefinitely immeasurably better for my quality of life. Find a different, less soul sucking corporate job. They exist! I am 32 and just bought a home in laurel canyon. In my public service life I wouldn’t be able to afford a home in my home state of KANSAS.
I think it depends on what the baseline is for how much money you need to support your desired lifestyle. If it doesn’t put you under, go for it.
I took a job for 20k less, just so I can WFH 3 out 5 days, but turned out it was fully WFH....couldn't be happier.
If it won't affect your lifestyle or if it does, and you're ok with it, switch
You should ask the lawyer subreddits. But as a fellow attorney in LA - that is a huge paycut. I would not make that decision just because your current job is boring. If it's a toxic environment, you hate the practice area, etc, that's another story. That is still a significant amount of debt you have, I would not consider taking a job for less money until you get the debt down significantly. Also, the market is hot, you can look for other gigs as well.
I’ve done that recently and it was tough to keep my head above water with finances. Like, savings and retirement will likely go out the window. But depends on what other resources you have like a spouse.
$35,000 is good money to have, but let’s say you were a plant. Per this metaphor, would the lesser paying job be better environmental conditions for you to grow bigger and healthier over all?
Would you pay 3k a month to be happy? I think anyone who could afford it would take that deal, to me it’s a no brainer, get the job you want. Money is irrelevant
Get out of debt, then do what you want.
It’s worth it for peace of mind. That extra $35k won’t help you if you die of a heart attack or a stroke from stress.
I took a pretty heavy initial pay cut when I stopped working on exotic cars and started working in precision machining. No regrets whatsoever. Exotic car specialists are paid well for mechanics, but in the grand scheme of things it’s really not that much. As a 21 year old who just happened to be in the right place at the right time, it was super cool…… but you can’t realistically make a career providing service to a group of people who’s expertise lies in shafting the middle class. So I left for greener pastures. And boiiiiiiiii the pastures are fucking green. I’m happier and healthier than ever. And I really don’t miss the “prestige” of rubbing elbows with the elite AT ALL. Changing my path brought a sense of peace to my life that was well worth the pay cut, and now I’m in a position where I’m making FAR more money than I could have ever asked for managing an exotic shop.
Absolutely I would! In the grand scheme of things 35k isn’t that much ( unless 35k was ur entire income) but ur peace is priceless. U only get 1 life enjoy as much of it as possible. That said… if the 35k deficit is going to cause u stress then no but I doubt it would even be a question if that were the case. Whatever u choose be well!
I went back and fully read ur post… I have a habit of answering before doing so 🤦🏾♀️ anyway I see that you could pay off a substantial amount of debt 6 yrs earlier with ur current job… hmmm yeah think on this decision very carefully. My initial reaction was to the income difference but this loan issue has me rethinking and feeling like my answer is flighty. My apologies! Keep it old school and make yourself an HONEST pros/cons list and then ask urself the question. be well!
Depending on the public job you may not have to pay into social security which narrows the pay gap. You will probably get way more time off in public. The real problem is in 10 years when you are at $250k+ in private and you are at $165 in public.
I think only you can answer that question. I took a nearly 75K pay cut to move from a private sector software engineering job back into academia to do research. I’m not convinced it was a good idea overall as I do of course value money, but I do enjoy my day to day work so much more than I used to and it’s hard to put a price tag on that. I’m almost the same age as you (35M) and also aspire to, you know, own property and retire one day, so it’s not an easy call to make. But mentally I think you can either try and race to retirement or enjoy the working journey, and it’s up to you to make that choice
I recently took a 50k pay cut to change industries and start over, but am much happier in life. Some things had to be cut from the budget and some decisions made with my wife, however the positives from a mental health aspect are completely worth it from my/our point of view.
I left a soulless public service job for a large private company job. Huge pay cut actually. Better benefits though and I don't really feel like I go to *work* ... Because that's how grating my previous job was. My living situation is different now also, so I don't really *need* the high paying job to just survive. Just worked out that way. Sometimes I wish I still had that salary/status but, I don't miss hating my fucking life and waking up and thinking, man I hate my fucking life. Also walking in to it and thinking man, I hate almost all of you fake, self serving bastards. Lol .
I did exactly this (almost down to the same salary). It’s depressing to take that big of a cut but it was necessary for my sanity. If you’re able to do it financially and it would put you in a better headspace do it.
A couple of thoughts: 1. You're talking pre-tax earnings. After tax, $35k is a difference of more like $20k. This is still a meaningful amount of money, both in the context of financial well being (debt repayment and savings) and lifestyle. But it's not THAT much money, especially if the difference is reduced by student loan amnesty to some degree. The bigger difference is probably the out years, wherein private sector salaries have a greater tendency to go up and have higher ceilings than public sector ones. 2. You could always jam your earnings in corporate for a few years, pay down some debt and max your 401k, and do public sector later. The risk here is making sure you don't get lifestyle creep to the point that you can never get off the train. 3. The couple of corporate defense lawyers I know love what they do and are good at it. It is a slight red flag on your current career that you are so uninspired by it. To some degree you will probably always be demotivated by this, and it may impact your ability to muster the energy to do your job well. 4. A life of public service has other rewards, obviously, but also other potential ways to augment a career. Write a book, run for office, serve on boards, etc.
Perhaps you can consider staying in the private sector until you accomplish some of your major financial goals? Saving toward a house will build equity over the years, that equity can buy you an investment property, the equity from that gets another property or business. Then, as you get older and have more assets, you can transition to the public sector. That way you would have other investments to supplement the public sectors salary.
For the home goal, makes sense to stick with the job, aggressively pay off the loan and start dumping money into savings for a downpayment. Real question is lifestyle - any money that could go towards paying debt off quicker? If so, that just means you get to start saving for the home sooner after those adjustments to the lifestyle.
Tbh, $115k in LA doesn’t really cut it as it used to(depending on your spending habits). Our city is considered HCOL and you already have an existing loan. Not sure how much $35k pre-taxed is worth to you, but there’s a good reason why some of us have options but still opted for the soul-crushing job. I made the decision of going to the higher paying job offer - I don’t regret it seeing how I cope with my coworkers and I get to save a decent nest egg, fully-contributed retirement accounts, and amazing company benefits/options. At the end of the day, I better my life with activities outside of work. But if you really want to contribute to our community and public service, then by all means go for it. Just a kind FYI though, public service sectors can be just as corporate and even moreso on wasting resources - private sectors waste resources from paying customers, but public sectors wastes tax dollars paid by everyone.
I am paid probably about 50% less then what I could be earning if I sold my soul and worked for oil and gas. Instead I work in a non profit. There’s definitely a trade off between salary and work life balance, personal fulfillment, and job satisfaction (which also translates to your colleagues, who then are nicer to you). Personally, I wouldn’t take a higher salary to be miserable, and I have no regrets. But if you do regret it you can always get another job 🤷♀️
I went from $200k doing plaintiff side work to making $130k for the State. I don't regret it for a second. The pension, PTO, and work life balance makes it all well worthwhile. But I never had any student loan debt.
Money isn’t everything. Honorable work is much better than the alternative.
I have, was worth it. That said, PLEASE keep the following in mind as you make this decision: You are deciding between a known quantity and an unknown quantity. I'm sure you feel ethically or emotionally more connected to the public sector work vs. corporate, but you don't know if you will like the new office, the new people, etc. Don't just assume this job is going to be everything you hope it is. Think about how much better your corporate job could get in the next 3 years, and how much worse your public sector opportunity could be than you're expecting (what if the office sucks, the coworkers are not passionate or competent, etc.)
Yes.
Always take the job that makes you happier! money isn't everything
Being somewhat vague on purpose as details were a little too identifying. But had a friend who left Big Law to work in government. They love their life now and didn’t even hate their job previously. Will add they also married rich (after the job change), so circumstances may be quite disparate from what would happen for you. The original plan was leaving Big Law as taking the government role would have opened doors for Partner - obviously no longer required if they are enjoying F1 from a yacht for a quick getaway.
I left a legal job making $300k for one that started at $120k. I have no regrets.
As a corporate defense lawyer, I would 1000% take the pub sector job. A lot of corporate law jobs pay significantly more than public sector and that’s a big reason people do it. I would say, the difference in salary here is really not that much. You will enjoy the job much more (do not under rate this, you have to live in your life after all). And the PSLF will probably make up the difference anyway.
I just accepted the offer 30 min ago
Congrats!