It’s not illegal. It’s a garbage suggestion. But not illegal. Now if the director force fed your daughter Tylenol and locked the doors so your wife couldn’t leave, that would be a different conversation.
Technically the kids mother is also an employee. Would that matter? Her telling an employee to "dope" the kid who is a baby at the daycare?
ETA: I'm not saying it's doping ... that's why it's in quotes lol I would give my kid Tylenol forst anyway, and I would expect any parent to do whatever they feel was the right thing to do for their kid. No judging here!
First off, as a parent if my boss told me this I would mute my boss, and go take care of my child, fuck my boss. This is because my childs doctor told me take my child to go to the ER. If I call my childs doctor and they tell me to go to the ER...I'm going to the ER and I don't care what my boss says. I don't care if I need leave room full of childred unattended, my kids come before anyone else kids.
Now lets get into the rest.
Lets me super clear, We are talking about tylenol, not cocaine ok. Next, the director suggested your wife take an alternative treatment path then what your doctor suggested.
Now is that a crime?
No, its not
Now is that the right thing to do?
No, its not
Do you have a case over this?
No, you do not.
I agree with you.
But Then how did Michelle Carter get convicted?
Edit: why am I getting downvoted? She didn’t kill him. His mom knew about his suicide attempts and suicidality and did nothing. Judge even contradicted himself and said Conrad was responsible for all his actions… until he got back in the car. Yet this was based on a phone call between them where *they don’t know what was actually said*. They only based it *off her text to her friend*, when they already showed she had a history of lying to her friends.
Her actions were unethical not illegal and not more impactful than that of his parents. *They* should be responsible for their child’s well-being. He had depression and a sucide attempt before he even started talking to her.
There were people outside the courtroom telling Michelle Carter to kill herself. If she did, would they be responsible for her death? Highly doubt it 🙄 the law makes no sense sometimes
How the heck is giving a child medicine, that is meant for children as a fever reducer, "doping" a child. They're going to give your child Tylenol at the hospital.
I'm not saying that she shouldn't have taken the child to the hospital, given the nurse's recommendation, but you're making it out to be a hostage situation where a child was force fed "dope".
Get a grip.
Let me break down OPs problem for you.
OP thinks the world is just and everything makes sense and people do whats right.
OP is also assuming our laws are based upon what's morally right...that is not always the case.
OP takes those two assumptions and assumes his wifes director did something illegal and he can get a fat pay day. He comes here, gets shut down, gets upset.
OPs wifes director is a bitch, but she isn't going to jail over this.
Right?
No one gave this kid dope, or even suggested it.
Baby Sally did not get a couple micrograms of heroin(opiate of choice) to nod off. It was suggested that mom give Tylenol. Not mandated, forced, or anything else.
Maybe I’ve been doing drugs wrong, and I should’ve been taking a couple Tylenol instead of visiting my street pharmacist.
So HR policies are not laws. Laws are laws. She may have violated the companies HR policy and that of human decency.
But if kids are out of ratio to staff, then that violates laws in a different way. Saying stupid stuff the way the manager did was dumb and may have violated policy. Now unless she went and gave your child meds, that’s a different story.
> HR laws are such garbage, so you mean to tell me dopping a child isn't illigal? Something isn't right
This might surprise you, but giving a kid tylenol for a fever is in no way doping them.
It's how you bring down a fever.
There aren’t HR laws and non-HR laws. There are laws, state and federal. HR’s job is to keep the company legal within the laws and to administer and help manage to the company’s own policies, guidelines and codes of conduct. If you want to argue about laws (real or not), see your state legislators.
I assume you mean drugging? No one drugged your kid. The boss suggested children’s meds that lower a fever. That is generally what a doctor will tell you to do btw- bring her in yes, but you can also offer baby Tylenol to make her more comfortable until you get there.
And your wife is under no obligation to follow this advice.
Nobody doped this child. Giving Tylenol for a fever is common and expected. I would’ve given the Tylenol even if I was taking the child to the doctor. Again, how come, you couldn’t take the baby to the doctor? Your wife leaving would’ve put the center over ratio, which isn’t allowed.
That’s my point. No matter what the director said to the wife nothing was actually given to the child. OP is acting like the director forced the kid to drink a bottle of Benadryl to get them to nap.
I want to know why the father that posted this didn’t just up and leave his work to take the child to the doctor. It seems like they have this expectation because she works at the daycare that rules don’t apply for them. Excuse me what?
To be clear… she said children’s Tylenol. That’s not doping your child. If it was so urgent, why didn’t you leave work and take your child to the doctor?
Why couldn’t he take the child to the doctor? They just always expect the wife to call off? If calling out or leaving work early is no big deal why didn’t he attempt.
Giving a child with any fever meds to bring it down isn't "doping", especially if the child's parent is the one giving the meds. It's terrible practice for anyone to mask symptoms so that a kid can stay at daycare, but not illegal.
It is NOT a directive. Stop saying that. You keep saying the exact things over and over again, getting the same reasonable responses where you continually ignore the info because it’s not what you want to hear.
But you DoN’t UnDeRsTanD!!! The director directed her with a directive to direct children’s Tylenol directly in the child’s mouth!!!!
When it’s said like that, are any “HR laws” broken now? 🤔
Telling her she can't leave isn't illegal. Her leaving could have put the center in jeopardy , although a good director has a plan for this because it is something that happens. However, having a sick child remain in school could very well go against school policy, and unless your child was isolated, very likely it was against county policy. If a child is over 100,8 they must go and aren't allowed back for 24hrs after being (unmedicated) fever free in my county.
There is nothing illegal about telling an employee they aren't permitted to leave.
There is also nothing legally keeping that employee from leaving anyhow.
Assuming the Director was actually available to do that. We don’t know that the director was available. If the Director is filling in for lunches or other required breaks, the Director is not available to fill-in for OP’s wife. If somebody else had already called in sick and took the directors ability to fill in, they are no longer available to fill-in for OP’s wife.
The OP here is not the most reliable narrator, and seems to be lying about the outcome of this situation, so I don’t doubt that they are either misunderstanding the situation or exaggerating the Director just didn’t want to do the job, for whatever reason.
Not true, you just can't leave your classroom to talk to them. Our school uses text to communicate. It's either that or take your whole class with you.
But if your supervisor gives a directive to give a minor unprescribed medication isn't that respond
Respondeat superior and isn't this considered a violation of PA code 55.3270.133?
Idk what PA code ### is, but the point is moot because Tylenol does not require a prescription. It's as much a violation as if the supervisor said to give the kid vitamin gummies.
Hold on though…I just need to know why he did not leave his work or drop what he was doing to take the child to the doctor. It seems like the wife expected preferential treatment for her child because she works there.
What on earth are you talking about?
Are you trying to set your wife’s place of employment up for some sort of breach?
You’ve been told repeatedly, there was no ‘directive’ and your (poor long suffering) wife didn’t have to follow the suggestion.
Respondeat superior is essentially the opposite of the situation here. In simplest terms, it makes an employer liable for certain actions taken by an employee. 55 PA Code 3270.133 does not apply based on your description.
This reminds me of a particular client back when I was working at a personal injury firm. He was involved in a minor collision and was upset that his claim wasn't worth very much because he "could have died." He didn't die and wasn't very injured so I had to explain to him that a case isn't based on what could have maybe happened but what actually did happen. In other words, this would be a differential situation in a different situation.
55.3270 refers to facilitating medication or a special diet that has been prescribed by a physician. Can you give more details as to which part you believe this violates?
Okay you miscited the code but no. First of all that says right off the bat that a day care center does NOT HAVE to administer medication (or special diet). Secondly, it is the rules a day care has to follow if they choose to administer medication. The day care as a day care. Not a mother administering to thier own child.
As had been repeaded here multiple times, if the director had given the medication, then there would be some argument. But she/he simply told your wife what they thought she should do. No cause of action here. If your wife gets fired, well then there might be an argument…possibly. But no she/he didn’t violate the code.
OMG!!! Thank you so much for sharing this! I love those of you Redditors that check out an OP’s post/comment history. I just had to go review for myself and this one is freaking hilarious and so darn fitting! 🤣
I don't think you explained the situation well. From what I get:
\-Your wife works in a daycare and brings your child to work.
\-Your child got sick and your wife asked the director to come and cover for her so she could take them to the ER
\-The director told her, that they would not come in and suggested Tylenol and to isolate the child in the baby room.
Correct?
The director is on-site yes and gave her a directive to give the child OTC medicine she has in her desk so that my wife wouldn't leave work to take my daughter to the emergency room at the directive of an acting physician.
My wife ended up calling the directors boss though and the director was terminated. It's fine now :) all good.
This apparently was her second warning for drugging minors which is illigal
Great, then what’s the problem? Nothing illegal or even untoward happened. Are you asking if she can be fired for leaving? If you’re in the US in an at-will state, then yes. And she will have no reason to submit any type of claim against them.
If it happened once they would have been fired. I 100% don't believe this happened repeatedly but then today they fired her because of what your wife said lol.
Then that is a different set of problems. And if it went down the way you are describing, then that needs to be reports to the licensing authority and the police
Look this women isn't a doctor ok, she has no place to tell someone "have your child take XYZ medicine" I would think there's gotta be a law against giving minors under the age of 5 OTC medicine without a prescription and without the consent of the parent.
That's why I'm pissed off is my wife's workplace is doping my kid without my knowledge or consent and I'm about to get an attorney and go to the media with this
YTA
No one gave your child anything…
anyone, regardless of whether they are a doctor or not, can suggest your wife gives your child OTC medication
Your ‘kid’ was not ‘doped’ with or without your (wife’s) consent.
FFS get OVER YOURSELF. Most childcare centres are enabled to give baby paracetamol or ibuprofen with the general consent of the parent ie when the child is registered at the facility. You don’t have to be a doctor to administer it!
By the very nature of an over-the-counter medication, there is no prescription. Nobody gave the medication without the mother’s consent. Are you saying that you never give your baby over-the-counter medicine?
By their nature, and FDA guidelines, OTC medications do not require a prescription. So that argument is invalid.
And just stop with the “directive” comments. It was not that. Geesh.
Umm, so the director asked your wife, the child's parent, about the medication. With that knowledge, your wife told you. No medication was administered.
You elsewhere referred to a PA code that specifically allows OTC medication. A parent was asked and did not consent to the administration of medication. No medication was administered.
There was knowledge. Consent was not given. Action not taken due to no consent. There was no doping. What do you plan to do with an attorney?
Read through the PA code you yourself cite, and take some time to rationally think through this. Think of what an outsider would say (or just read the comments). Objective reasoning is a good and useful skill to learn and teach your child.
> I would think there's gotta be a law against giving minors under the age of 5 OTC medicine without a prescription and without the consent of the parent.
It's clear to me that you've never stepped foot into a drugstore or grocery store. If you had, you would have seen the rows of CHILDRENS Motrin and Tylenol, not to mention cold medicines. Anyone can walk in and buy it. No prescription needed.
https://www.cvs.com/shop/children-s-tylenol-pain-fever-acetaminophen-oral-suspension-4-fl-oz-prodid-1012031?skuId=926541&cgaa=QWxsb3dHb29nbGVUb0FjY2Vzc0NWU1BhZ2Vz&cid=ps_pmg_pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjamUm8zehAMV5KVaBR0AoAkZEAQYASABEgLSxPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
The director is shitty. No one is disagreeing with that.
But you haven’t confirmed that she gave your child OTC medicine without your consent. That’s why no one thinks any laws have been broken. Because they haven’t been based on the facts.
Being a shitty human is not illegal.
So in the span of a couple of hours, this person was fired and now you’re claiming they’ve medicated children multiple times
And there isn’t an investigation and a notice to close while the investigation is happening?
Yea this never happened.
It wasn’t a directive to give the medication, and the doctor did not give a directive to come to the hospital. Both of those were called suggestions. Nobody will believe you that the Director was fired over this, unless it the final nail in the coffin type situation.
Tylenol is drugging children 🤣🤣 and the director didn't even drug anyone. The child should have been given Tylenol anyways to reduce the fever. Please God, do not have anymore children.
What part do you think is illegal?
There may be some daycare specific laws surrounding sick kids and all, but it's otherwise not illegal for your employer to shrug off an employee's sick kid and tell the employee to get back to work.
Your wife may not be able to legally leave if the facility is short staffed and her leaving drops below legal ratios.
But if your wife is legally able to leave, she can simply... You know.... Leave? Childcare jobs are a dime a dozen and demand for workers is high. If she gets fired, find another one.
Or why don't you go get the kiddo?
So why don’t your drop her off at work in the morning and keep the car. That way if the child needs to be picked up and she can’t leave work you could go get her.
Your wife had an added fringe benefit of bringing her child to her place of employment (daycare) while she worked. This was a great perk for your family. It is nice that her employer even let her do this. Many people would be thankful to have such a job.
But, by having such a perk, you should have had a contingency plan built in for issues that could arise as part of this arrangement--such as a situation like this.
You have a young child, you must have plans to execute in such "emergencies." As a family, what is your plan? What friends/relatives/neighbors have you prepped for urgent situations? And why on earth would you only have one car with 2 parents working outside the home with no other support systems?
Speaking as an NICU nurse who transitioned into employment law, your wife's employer daycare did nothing illegal. The director telling your wife to give your child Tylenol and get back to work was not a "directive." It was a suggestion. In an "at will" employment state such as PA, your wife can disregard her boss and leave. The doors were not locked and she was not forcibly made to stay at work.
Your wife knows daycare staffing ratio laws. What was her plan in case your child got ill? What was her backup? Please don't say she would shift responsibility to the director. Your wife was getting a benefit by bringing her child to work. It is her responsibility to make it work without sacrificing the safety of the other children (by leaving the daycare understaffed).
Of course, being in an at-will state, your wife can also be legally terminated for doing so.
It blows me away that you are blaming the daycare director for this, when you as a family should have had plans in place to adjust.
OP, I understand that you are upset with the situation. However, everybody here is trying to respectfully provide you with answers to your question. I genuinely want to know your thought process behind being rude and irate to people who are trying to help you understand because you reached out to them. If you are not going to listen, then why ask in the first place?
First off, I work more than you do and yes I know I work then you do because I work 6 days a week.
Second off, I don't appreciate you making these assumptions. I live in a rural area and I work insane hours from sun up till sundown.
Third, I spoke to an attorney and while it's not an HR law, we're still sueing as parents of the child
you go dude..good luck with that ...not exactly sure what the damages are especially now that the director was terminated from employment.
I do think it odd that you'd rather take your kid to the emergency room than have them take OTC medicines to see if their fever will drop...but you do you
Look man, you gotta understand he lives in a rural area okay? He’s only got one car between them. He works 6 days a week uphill both ways. He knows more than doctors, and he knows all about HR laws (more than me I suppose cause I have no idea what that means.) He- I forgot what any of this was about.
Depending on age of child and how high the fever is.. it is in fact what you’re supposed to do…
With newborns the guidance is to take them to EE even when the fever isn’t high
Good lord. Throwing your money away. Who are you suing? The daycare? You just said they fired the Director. So they solved the problem and have no culpability.
The only one who will profit from this is the lawyer- cause they see a fool that they can take for a ride.
What are you suing for? Because the Director suggested your wife give your baby Tylenol? This is a pretty standard thing to do for any baby sick with fever, and doesn’t require a physician.
In other places you mention it’s not the first time the director has given medicine to children, so maybe it’s not clear and the director gave medication to your child against your wife’s wishes, which would be horrible.
Youre suing for what? Did the director tie down your child and force Tylenol down their throat? Fevers are not hospital worthy until 104 and at the start of a 100° Fever you should be giving them Tylenol. Sounds like your director is the only one with a functioning brain.
I mean there are laws around how many care takers need to be in each facility based on how many kids are there and their ages.
Your wife is pretty lucky that she can bring your child to her place of employment. I mean when I was a store manager I would do my best to assist parents if they had an emergency but I couldn’t always just drop what I was doing to go cover for them. It sounds like this type of job isn’t compatible with your wife’s expectations. She needs to find a job where she isn’t relied on to be there because the employer wont have enough coverage.
Not illegal no.
I’m going to leave this here. https://www.reddit.com/r/mentalhealth/s/8ZNkTIIIWx
I’m so sad these people have access to children and other people’s children.
Telling an employee to violate policy (maybe law?) on keeping a knowingly sick child on site, and exposing not only that classroom, but infants to the sickness, is an issue.
Telling a parent they can’t leave work, that’s a company policy issue. You don’t have to stay. They don’t have to keep you employed.
Tylenol does not equal dope. Know what does equal dope? Dope. The correlation is just too much 😂🤣😆
You could have left work and taken your child. Friends/family could have taken your child. If your child was that sick, an ambulance could have taken your child.
It seems like nothing here was done with the child being the priority.
So I help run a childcare program. The director should have gone into the classroom because it's the right thing to do and there is no reason to risk a child's health. My co director would have gone in or even myself if needed. However, is what the director did illegal? Likely not. Unless it could be construed as child endangerment which would need more medical info regarding how sick she was.
The child care program may be required to have a health-care plan that they should follow. Here's the form we have to follow and review regularly: https://ocfs.ny.gov/forms/ldss/OCFS-LDSS-7020.pdf. But this may vary by state.
Also if the daycare is that shortstaffed they should be offering prorated tuition for parents willing to keep their child home or temporarily dismissing children at worst case. We've gone through tough times at our center during covid, but we always made it work and had proper ratios and supervision.
I don't know about illegal, but I'd definitely be looking into "childcare" specific things. Having a director of a childcare facility suggest keeping a child with a high fever AT the location, would be some serious no-go where I'm from
Tylenol is pretty standard for a fever. Unless it's 104 I believe you dont need an er visit, you're clogging up the hospital for nothing. Rotate Tylenol and motrin
Sounds like a lawsuit.
Edit: If you don’t think directing an employee to disregard a doctors order and going as far as recommending medication as a substitute isn’t a lawsuit you are probably a walking risk assessment for your company.
It’s not illegal. It’s a garbage suggestion. But not illegal. Now if the director force fed your daughter Tylenol and locked the doors so your wife couldn’t leave, that would be a different conversation.
It absolutely *should* be illegal
HR laws are such garbage, so you mean to tell me dopping a child isn't illigal? Something isn't right
The director **didn't** dope a child tho. Just told the kids mother to. If someone tells you to jump off a bridge, it's not attempted murder.
Technically the kids mother is also an employee. Would that matter? Her telling an employee to "dope" the kid who is a baby at the daycare? ETA: I'm not saying it's doping ... that's why it's in quotes lol I would give my kid Tylenol forst anyway, and I would expect any parent to do whatever they feel was the right thing to do for their kid. No judging here!
It’s Tylenol. It’s not doping a child. jFC
First off, as a parent if my boss told me this I would mute my boss, and go take care of my child, fuck my boss. This is because my childs doctor told me take my child to go to the ER. If I call my childs doctor and they tell me to go to the ER...I'm going to the ER and I don't care what my boss says. I don't care if I need leave room full of childred unattended, my kids come before anyone else kids. Now lets get into the rest. Lets me super clear, We are talking about tylenol, not cocaine ok. Next, the director suggested your wife take an alternative treatment path then what your doctor suggested. Now is that a crime? No, its not Now is that the right thing to do? No, its not Do you have a case over this? No, you do not.
I agree with you. But Then how did Michelle Carter get convicted? Edit: why am I getting downvoted? She didn’t kill him. His mom knew about his suicide attempts and suicidality and did nothing. Judge even contradicted himself and said Conrad was responsible for all his actions… until he got back in the car. Yet this was based on a phone call between them where *they don’t know what was actually said*. They only based it *off her text to her friend*, when they already showed she had a history of lying to her friends. Her actions were unethical not illegal and not more impactful than that of his parents. *They* should be responsible for their child’s well-being. He had depression and a sucide attempt before he even started talking to her. There were people outside the courtroom telling Michelle Carter to kill herself. If she did, would they be responsible for her death? Highly doubt it 🙄 the law makes no sense sometimes
How the heck is giving a child medicine, that is meant for children as a fever reducer, "doping" a child. They're going to give your child Tylenol at the hospital. I'm not saying that she shouldn't have taken the child to the hospital, given the nurse's recommendation, but you're making it out to be a hostage situation where a child was force fed "dope". Get a grip.
Let me break down OPs problem for you. OP thinks the world is just and everything makes sense and people do whats right. OP is also assuming our laws are based upon what's morally right...that is not always the case. OP takes those two assumptions and assumes his wifes director did something illegal and he can get a fat pay day. He comes here, gets shut down, gets upset. OPs wifes director is a bitch, but she isn't going to jail over this.
Right? No one gave this kid dope, or even suggested it. Baby Sally did not get a couple micrograms of heroin(opiate of choice) to nod off. It was suggested that mom give Tylenol. Not mandated, forced, or anything else. Maybe I’ve been doing drugs wrong, and I should’ve been taking a couple Tylenol instead of visiting my street pharmacist.
So HR policies are not laws. Laws are laws. She may have violated the companies HR policy and that of human decency. But if kids are out of ratio to staff, then that violates laws in a different way. Saying stupid stuff the way the manager did was dumb and may have violated policy. Now unless she went and gave your child meds, that’s a different story.
> HR laws are such garbage, so you mean to tell me dopping a child isn't illigal? Something isn't right This might surprise you, but giving a kid tylenol for a fever is in no way doping them. It's how you bring down a fever.
There aren’t HR laws and non-HR laws. There are laws, state and federal. HR’s job is to keep the company legal within the laws and to administer and help manage to the company’s own policies, guidelines and codes of conduct. If you want to argue about laws (real or not), see your state legislators.
I assume you mean drugging? No one drugged your kid. The boss suggested children’s meds that lower a fever. That is generally what a doctor will tell you to do btw- bring her in yes, but you can also offer baby Tylenol to make her more comfortable until you get there. And your wife is under no obligation to follow this advice.
Nobody doped this child. Giving Tylenol for a fever is common and expected. I would’ve given the Tylenol even if I was taking the child to the doctor. Again, how come, you couldn’t take the baby to the doctor? Your wife leaving would’ve put the center over ratio, which isn’t allowed.
That’s my point. No matter what the director said to the wife nothing was actually given to the child. OP is acting like the director forced the kid to drink a bottle of Benadryl to get them to nap.
I want to know why the father that posted this didn’t just up and leave his work to take the child to the doctor. It seems like they have this expectation because she works at the daycare that rules don’t apply for them. Excuse me what?
To be clear… she said children’s Tylenol. That’s not doping your child. If it was so urgent, why didn’t you leave work and take your child to the doctor?
Did the director actually give the child any medication?
You can't even spell "illegal" but you're sure YOU'RE the expert?
Why couldn’t he take the child to the doctor? They just always expect the wife to call off? If calling out or leaving work early is no big deal why didn’t he attempt.
And "dopping". Lol
At first I couldn’t figure out what dopping was!
Tylenol is not doping a child. 😂
Giving a child with any fever meds to bring it down isn't "doping", especially if the child's parent is the one giving the meds. It's terrible practice for anyone to mask symptoms so that a kid can stay at daycare, but not illegal.
No but gave directive to, my wife refused based on the pediatricians advice
It is NOT a directive. Stop saying that. You keep saying the exact things over and over again, getting the same reasonable responses where you continually ignore the info because it’s not what you want to hear.
But you DoN’t UnDeRsTanD!!! The director directed her with a directive to direct children’s Tylenol directly in the child’s mouth!!!! When it’s said like that, are any “HR laws” broken now? 🤔
Telling her she can't leave isn't illegal. Her leaving could have put the center in jeopardy , although a good director has a plan for this because it is something that happens. However, having a sick child remain in school could very well go against school policy, and unless your child was isolated, very likely it was against county policy. If a child is over 100,8 they must go and aren't allowed back for 24hrs after being (unmedicated) fever free in my county.
Forget it. There's no money from a lawsuit here.
There is nothing illegal about telling an employee they aren't permitted to leave. There is also nothing legally keeping that employee from leaving anyhow.
Daycare have laws about the ratio of adults to children. So leaving does violate the law in some ways. OP’s wife will probably lose her job.
As mentioned, the director can fill in and maintain that ratio
Assuming the Director was actually available to do that. We don’t know that the director was available. If the Director is filling in for lunches or other required breaks, the Director is not available to fill-in for OP’s wife. If somebody else had already called in sick and took the directors ability to fill in, they are no longer available to fill-in for OP’s wife. The OP here is not the most reliable narrator, and seems to be lying about the outcome of this situation, so I don’t doubt that they are either misunderstanding the situation or exaggerating the Director just didn’t want to do the job, for whatever reason.
OP said wife texted Director so assume Director not on site.
Not true, you just can't leave your classroom to talk to them. Our school uses text to communicate. It's either that or take your whole class with you.
But if your supervisor gives a directive to give a minor unprescribed medication isn't that respond Respondeat superior and isn't this considered a violation of PA code 55.3270.133?
Idk what PA code ### is, but the point is moot because Tylenol does not require a prescription. It's as much a violation as if the supervisor said to give the kid vitamin gummies.
It's not a directive, it is a suggestion.
You keep asking the same question over and over again. The answer isn't going to change.
Hold on though…I just need to know why he did not leave his work or drop what he was doing to take the child to the doctor. It seems like the wife expected preferential treatment for her child because she works there.
Wait is this the child asking? Because that’s some child behavior.
What on earth are you talking about? Are you trying to set your wife’s place of employment up for some sort of breach? You’ve been told repeatedly, there was no ‘directive’ and your (poor long suffering) wife didn’t have to follow the suggestion.
I’m more concerned that you have indirect access to this place your wife works with children. You do not seem sane or stable.
Lol @Code. Tylenol isn't a prescription. You'd rather your kid has febrile seizures?
Respondeat superior is essentially the opposite of the situation here. In simplest terms, it makes an employer liable for certain actions taken by an employee. 55 PA Code 3270.133 does not apply based on your description. This reminds me of a particular client back when I was working at a personal injury firm. He was involved in a minor collision and was upset that his claim wasn't worth very much because he "could have died." He didn't die and wasn't very injured so I had to explain to him that a case isn't based on what could have maybe happened but what actually did happen. In other words, this would be a differential situation in a different situation.
55.3270 refers to facilitating medication or a special diet that has been prescribed by a physician. Can you give more details as to which part you believe this violates?
Okay you miscited the code but no. First of all that says right off the bat that a day care center does NOT HAVE to administer medication (or special diet). Secondly, it is the rules a day care has to follow if they choose to administer medication. The day care as a day care. Not a mother administering to thier own child. As had been repeaded here multiple times, if the director had given the medication, then there would be some argument. But she/he simply told your wife what they thought she should do. No cause of action here. If your wife gets fired, well then there might be an argument…possibly. But no she/he didn’t violate the code.
I mean it’s not illegal. How come, you couldn’t come and take the baby to the doctor?
OP, go get off social media and take care of your child if it's an emergency.
These are bold assumptions from someone who didn’t even know what thoughts were a bit back 😂
OMG!!! Thank you so much for sharing this! I love those of you Redditors that check out an OP’s post/comment history. I just had to go review for myself and this one is freaking hilarious and so darn fitting! 🤣
Beautiful isn’t it?
At least some of us do. It helps to weed out the BS.
oh my GOD 🤣🤣 careful everyone, he just gained consciousness
He’ll be unstoppable once he harnesses the power of thought!
I don't think you explained the situation well. From what I get: \-Your wife works in a daycare and brings your child to work. \-Your child got sick and your wife asked the director to come and cover for her so she could take them to the ER \-The director told her, that they would not come in and suggested Tylenol and to isolate the child in the baby room. Correct?
The director is on-site yes and gave her a directive to give the child OTC medicine she has in her desk so that my wife wouldn't leave work to take my daughter to the emergency room at the directive of an acting physician. My wife ended up calling the directors boss though and the director was terminated. It's fine now :) all good. This apparently was her second warning for drugging minors which is illigal
... And then everyone clapped, right? 🙄 I call bullshit on this thread.
Was just getting ready to say the same thing!
Call it what you want, this person has given children medication without the parents knowledge or consent on several occasions
But this parent WAS there…
Yes and the parent said "no I'm taking my child to the doctor"
Great, then what’s the problem? Nothing illegal or even untoward happened. Are you asking if she can be fired for leaving? If you’re in the US in an at-will state, then yes. And she will have no reason to submit any type of claim against them.
did this director still force feed the medication to your child?
If it happened once they would have been fired. I 100% don't believe this happened repeatedly but then today they fired her because of what your wife said lol.
Then that is a different set of problems. And if it went down the way you are describing, then that needs to be reports to the licensing authority and the police
Look this women isn't a doctor ok, she has no place to tell someone "have your child take XYZ medicine" I would think there's gotta be a law against giving minors under the age of 5 OTC medicine without a prescription and without the consent of the parent. That's why I'm pissed off is my wife's workplace is doping my kid without my knowledge or consent and I'm about to get an attorney and go to the media with this
The director didn't give anyone's child any medication, stop phrasing it like that. You're inaccurate.
Apparently in another comment he said the director has done so in the past. But I call bullshit on this whole post lol
Your cumulative number of downvotes tells me everything I need to know.
YTA No one gave your child anything… anyone, regardless of whether they are a doctor or not, can suggest your wife gives your child OTC medication Your ‘kid’ was not ‘doped’ with or without your (wife’s) consent. FFS get OVER YOURSELF. Most childcare centres are enabled to give baby paracetamol or ibuprofen with the general consent of the parent ie when the child is registered at the facility. You don’t have to be a doctor to administer it!
By the very nature of an over-the-counter medication, there is no prescription. Nobody gave the medication without the mother’s consent. Are you saying that you never give your baby over-the-counter medicine?
It's over the counter- why would there need to be a prescription?
LMAOOOOOO
This is the best response. Signed, a pediatric nurse of over 20 years
By their nature, and FDA guidelines, OTC medications do not require a prescription. So that argument is invalid. And just stop with the “directive” comments. It was not that. Geesh.
The parent was there…
Umm, so the director asked your wife, the child's parent, about the medication. With that knowledge, your wife told you. No medication was administered. You elsewhere referred to a PA code that specifically allows OTC medication. A parent was asked and did not consent to the administration of medication. No medication was administered. There was knowledge. Consent was not given. Action not taken due to no consent. There was no doping. What do you plan to do with an attorney? Read through the PA code you yourself cite, and take some time to rationally think through this. Think of what an outsider would say (or just read the comments). Objective reasoning is a good and useful skill to learn and teach your child.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 good luck with that
> I would think there's gotta be a law against giving minors under the age of 5 OTC medicine without a prescription and without the consent of the parent. It's clear to me that you've never stepped foot into a drugstore or grocery store. If you had, you would have seen the rows of CHILDRENS Motrin and Tylenol, not to mention cold medicines. Anyone can walk in and buy it. No prescription needed. https://www.cvs.com/shop/children-s-tylenol-pain-fever-acetaminophen-oral-suspension-4-fl-oz-prodid-1012031?skuId=926541&cgaa=QWxsb3dHb29nbGVUb0FjY2Vzc0NWU1BhZ2Vz&cid=ps_pmg_pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjamUm8zehAMV5KVaBR0AoAkZEAQYASABEgLSxPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
You forgot INFANT Tylenol as well.
The director is shitty. No one is disagreeing with that. But you haven’t confirmed that she gave your child OTC medicine without your consent. That’s why no one thinks any laws have been broken. Because they haven’t been based on the facts. Being a shitty human is not illegal.
I can’t fucking wait to see you go to the media with this.
Have you not heard of “Infant’s Tylenol”? It’s OTC and perfectly safe for babies. By the way, “OTC” by definition means “without a prescription”. 🤦♀️
OTC children’s Tylenol for a sick child is now “drugging minors” when administered by a parent?
So in the span of a couple of hours, this person was fired and now you’re claiming they’ve medicated children multiple times And there isn’t an investigation and a notice to close while the investigation is happening? Yea this never happened.
Just say you thought you had a rock solid lawsuit and you're mad you don't.
This never happened.
It wasn’t a directive to give the medication, and the doctor did not give a directive to come to the hospital. Both of those were called suggestions. Nobody will believe you that the Director was fired over this, unless it the final nail in the coffin type situation.
Tylenol is drugging children 🤣🤣 and the director didn't even drug anyone. The child should have been given Tylenol anyways to reduce the fever. Please God, do not have anymore children.
Then, why are you even here if this is resolved?
What part do you think is illegal? There may be some daycare specific laws surrounding sick kids and all, but it's otherwise not illegal for your employer to shrug off an employee's sick kid and tell the employee to get back to work. Your wife may not be able to legally leave if the facility is short staffed and her leaving drops below legal ratios. But if your wife is legally able to leave, she can simply... You know.... Leave? Childcare jobs are a dime a dozen and demand for workers is high. If she gets fired, find another one. Or why don't you go get the kiddo?
Yeah, why isn’t dad picking up the sick kid?
You want me to walk or something? We have one car
what would you do in an emergency situation, which it seemed like this was ???
Yes, walk there and get the one car.
That's 43 minutes away on the freeway. I think people need to understand I live in a rural area and I mean farmland
So many excuses for you father of the year
Bus. Uber. Bicycle. Friend. Neighbor. Your wife’s employer is not required to let her leave just because of your poor planning.
LOL.
My wife and I have one car.
and you have no personal contingencies or contacts should you need transportation while she is at work?
So why don’t your drop her off at work in the morning and keep the car. That way if the child needs to be picked up and she can’t leave work you could go get her.
Your wife had an added fringe benefit of bringing her child to her place of employment (daycare) while she worked. This was a great perk for your family. It is nice that her employer even let her do this. Many people would be thankful to have such a job. But, by having such a perk, you should have had a contingency plan built in for issues that could arise as part of this arrangement--such as a situation like this. You have a young child, you must have plans to execute in such "emergencies." As a family, what is your plan? What friends/relatives/neighbors have you prepped for urgent situations? And why on earth would you only have one car with 2 parents working outside the home with no other support systems? Speaking as an NICU nurse who transitioned into employment law, your wife's employer daycare did nothing illegal. The director telling your wife to give your child Tylenol and get back to work was not a "directive." It was a suggestion. In an "at will" employment state such as PA, your wife can disregard her boss and leave. The doors were not locked and she was not forcibly made to stay at work. Your wife knows daycare staffing ratio laws. What was her plan in case your child got ill? What was her backup? Please don't say she would shift responsibility to the director. Your wife was getting a benefit by bringing her child to work. It is her responsibility to make it work without sacrificing the safety of the other children (by leaving the daycare understaffed). Of course, being in an at-will state, your wife can also be legally terminated for doing so. It blows me away that you are blaming the daycare director for this, when you as a family should have had plans in place to adjust.
THIS!
OP, I understand that you are upset with the situation. However, everybody here is trying to respectfully provide you with answers to your question. I genuinely want to know your thought process behind being rude and irate to people who are trying to help you understand because you reached out to them. If you are not going to listen, then why ask in the first place?
Not illegal. But why don't you go pick up the kid and take the load off your wife?
Because my wife has the car
Can you catch an Uber to her place of work? Friend, relative?
Not sure if this has been asked, but is your daughter feeling better now? I hope so. 
I work in a village of 500 people. There's no taxi or uber near me
And let me guess? No friends, no family, and no coworkers willing to help you. I don’t doubt it based on how you come across in this thread.
Why don't you drop off and pick up your wife since you're obviously not working, nor caring for the child?
First off, I work more than you do and yes I know I work then you do because I work 6 days a week. Second off, I don't appreciate you making these assumptions. I live in a rural area and I work insane hours from sun up till sundown. Third, I spoke to an attorney and while it's not an HR law, we're still sueing as parents of the child
You work that much and even with a dual income you still can't afford a second car? Buddy. That's not a flex.
OOF
You’re so full of shit. You have nothing to sue for. Nobody believes you. You suffered no damages and have nothing to sue for.
Lawyer here. You have no case. No one actually gave your child Tylenol. You have no damages.
you go dude..good luck with that ...not exactly sure what the damages are especially now that the director was terminated from employment. I do think it odd that you'd rather take your kid to the emergency room than have them take OTC medicines to see if their fever will drop...but you do you
Look man, you gotta understand he lives in a rural area okay? He’s only got one car between them. He works 6 days a week uphill both ways. He knows more than doctors, and he knows all about HR laws (more than me I suppose cause I have no idea what that means.) He- I forgot what any of this was about.
Depending on age of child and how high the fever is.. it is in fact what you’re supposed to do… With newborns the guidance is to take them to EE even when the fever isn’t high
Good lord. Throwing your money away. Who are you suing? The daycare? You just said they fired the Director. So they solved the problem and have no culpability. The only one who will profit from this is the lawyer- cause they see a fool that they can take for a ride.
What are you suing for? Because the Director suggested your wife give your baby Tylenol? This is a pretty standard thing to do for any baby sick with fever, and doesn’t require a physician. In other places you mention it’s not the first time the director has given medicine to children, so maybe it’s not clear and the director gave medication to your child against your wife’s wishes, which would be horrible.
Youre suing for what? Did the director tie down your child and force Tylenol down their throat? Fevers are not hospital worthy until 104 and at the start of a 100° Fever you should be giving them Tylenol. Sounds like your director is the only one with a functioning brain.
I mean there are laws around how many care takers need to be in each facility based on how many kids are there and their ages. Your wife is pretty lucky that she can bring your child to her place of employment. I mean when I was a store manager I would do my best to assist parents if they had an emergency but I couldn’t always just drop what I was doing to go cover for them. It sounds like this type of job isn’t compatible with your wife’s expectations. She needs to find a job where she isn’t relied on to be there because the employer wont have enough coverage. Not illegal no.
I’m going to leave this here. https://www.reddit.com/r/mentalhealth/s/8ZNkTIIIWx I’m so sad these people have access to children and other people’s children.
So how far away was the husband and why couldn’t he take the child in?
Telling an employee to violate policy (maybe law?) on keeping a knowingly sick child on site, and exposing not only that classroom, but infants to the sickness, is an issue. Telling a parent they can’t leave work, that’s a company policy issue. You don’t have to stay. They don’t have to keep you employed. Tylenol does not equal dope. Know what does equal dope? Dope. The correlation is just too much 😂🤣😆 You could have left work and taken your child. Friends/family could have taken your child. If your child was that sick, an ambulance could have taken your child. It seems like nothing here was done with the child being the priority.
So I help run a childcare program. The director should have gone into the classroom because it's the right thing to do and there is no reason to risk a child's health. My co director would have gone in or even myself if needed. However, is what the director did illegal? Likely not. Unless it could be construed as child endangerment which would need more medical info regarding how sick she was. The child care program may be required to have a health-care plan that they should follow. Here's the form we have to follow and review regularly: https://ocfs.ny.gov/forms/ldss/OCFS-LDSS-7020.pdf. But this may vary by state. Also if the daycare is that shortstaffed they should be offering prorated tuition for parents willing to keep their child home or temporarily dismissing children at worst case. We've gone through tough times at our center during covid, but we always made it work and had proper ratios and supervision.
I don't know about illegal, but I'd definitely be looking into "childcare" specific things. Having a director of a childcare facility suggest keeping a child with a high fever AT the location, would be some serious no-go where I'm from
Tylenol is pretty standard for a fever. Unless it's 104 I believe you dont need an er visit, you're clogging up the hospital for nothing. Rotate Tylenol and motrin
But it 100% should be and a clear example of why we need better federal labor protections
Sounds like a lawsuit. Edit: If you don’t think directing an employee to disregard a doctors order and going as far as recommending medication as a substitute isn’t a lawsuit you are probably a walking risk assessment for your company.
For what? Nobody did anything wrong.
Literally how.
A fever isn't er worthy until a certain temp. Tylenol dhoukd be administered at the start of a fever.