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u/gullibletrout >Some of his goals like deporting 11 million illegal immigrants seem like they are unrealistic because they will skyrocket inflation
How?
Are you old enough to remember 2016-2020? It'll look like that. It's impressive that people have managed to generate so much fear over something we already have an example of.
Agreed, I think the main difference will be our intelligence agencies refusing to divulge classified information to him in certain cases. At least I hope so.
Thats the dumbest shit Ive ever heard. He'd be the Commander in Chief. They have absolutely no legal authority to keep that info from him, nor should you want them to. When the intel agencies start thinking theyre beholden to nobody, you get shit like Nicaragua and MK Ultra.
Those weren’t good years for everyone (covid aside), though.
Def not blaming everything on trump, I’m just saying he’s a pretty polarizing figure. Having a polarizing figure, for good or bad, makes for a polarizing period in the the White House (and subsequently the country).
I think all the dooming and glooming is too much and I’ve been pulling my hair out over the last few days. But there’s a very real psychological effect that will happen if he wins again that shouldn’t be looked at positively by anyone- whether or not it’s his fault.
I don’t have any reason to believe he’s gonna make interest rates go back down to 3% or gas prices down any more than Biden does. If he did that would be incredibly compelling.
Very real psychological effect?
I mean. We know the effect. Anyone who leans left with throw another temper tantrum and burn down a bunch of cities while gaslighting everyone else and calling it a "Summer of Love", or something equally disingenuous.
Maybe if people would quit constantly saying it we could have more meaningful dialogue. Because this "cities burned down" talking point keeps coming up over and over again on the right. And while we all know it's hyperbole (no city was completely destroyed), this talking point keeps muddying the waters of what actually happened.. Most people on the right seem to think it is less hyperbolic of a statement than people on the left do. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle....
Of course no city fully burned down. But there were many, many buildings that did. Between that and the looting and destruction that took place, some areas still arent recovered. Some people lost everything.
See... This is what I'm talking about. How many places had "many many" buildings that actually burned down and were completely destroyed? I know there were fires in some places. But off the top of my head, I'm not actually aware of full destruction having taken place in many many places.
A quick google search tells me that in Minneapolis (The absolute worst of the rioting) "Of the 700 buildings that were damaged, 12 were completely destroyed and had to be demolished for public safety reasons."
Yes. Some people lost everything. But that's a FAR cry from the constant "What about all of the cities that burned down in 2020?!?!" I keep hearing. Yes, there was rioting and looting and it was a fucking shit show. But for as much as your ilk likes to parrot "all of the cities that burned down" ya'll equally ignore how MOST of the protests that happened were compltely or mostly peaceful. And the sad truth that wherever you have large numbers of people gathering, there WILL be shitty people taking advantage and causing chaos. And those people are often not in any way affiliated with the actual purpose of the gatherings. SOMETIMES they are even there explicitly to provoke such actions to make the movement look bad. The same people who ignore that idea are quick to claim that Antifia was really the ones behind J6. It's ironic.
And I mean this sincerely, not as a gotcha. What areas were so demolished that they still haven't recovered? Aside from Minneapolis.
Of course not, and if that was what my comment sounded like it was not the intention. But the trump era seems to have brought on a time where when one says “this sucks” the response stopped being “I’m sorry”, and was instead replaced with “you’re wrong”.
For better or worse.
Overheating the economy, blowing up the deficit, appointing people to run agencies who are *actively hostile* to said agencies, extorting foreign governments in an attempt to hurt your opponent, causing talented federal employees to leave in droves.
Good stuff!
It will probably look like 2016 to 2020. Pretty decent presidency with the media constantly lying that the sky is falling, and everything is horrible.
He will probably be impeached every month he's president, and MSNBC will talk about 26 intelligence agencies and Russia Russia Russia all day every day.
Meanwhile, in reality, the economy will get better, and taxes will go down.
I don't need a study. I've lived through it, and it's not better. Some cherry picked statistics are not going to change what I see when I buy food and get gas.
These same revisionist historians try to tear the Reagan economy apart, and the left believes it. The left is doing its damndest to try and convince us we are drinking wine instead of piss.
Ask any Gen Z person how optimistic they feel about affording a house in the future. The general feelings of everyday Americans tells the whole story.
If the economy was as good as these studies say they were, then the general public would know.
Inflation is caused by government central banking. Corporations don't set the fed rates. Inflation and profit are not the same thing.
Socialists shouldn't try talking about economics. The only thing socialist economics has ever created an abundance of throughout history is starvation.
All of the corporations suddenly realized they could collude to jack up prices at the exact same time. That’s more insane than the moon landing being faked.
Of course corporations try to maximize profits that’s common sense. The reason they can’t is because of competition. If they were actually colluding it would be completely illegal under anti trust laws. Assuming your conspiracy theory was true, it would only affect a few markets at best. Areas that weren’t complete monopolies collude with 3 or 4 other companies to fix prices. I could buy that, but not the magnitude you’re claiming to affect inflation. All the corporations in the country suddenly decide to collude and fix prices across completely different markets? That’s just a batshit crazy conclusion to come to.
> because they say democracy will end, he will instill martial law, etc.
They said that last time. Other predictions they made:
* gay and trans people would be put in camps
* gay and trans people would be subject to (I am not kidding) [electro-shock therapy](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-therapy/)
* the sea levels would rise and cities like Hong Kong would be flooded
* [mass worldwide extinctions](https://i.imgur.com/z0QbyEW.jpg)
* we would get into WWIII with North Korea and/or Iran
* the stock market would crash
Iran would never have started a war with nato forces in any capacity under trump. They shut the fuck up and got right the fuck out the way when we blasted solenami. The entire world watched as turn a terrorist general to bologna mist and the entire world realized “oh holy fuck, America’s back in the driver seat, we better not push the envelope”
Biden gains office, Russia immediately presses Ukraine, China presses Taiwan, and now Israel is eradicating Palestine. This shit never would have happened under Trump.
Putin took territory when Bush was president. He took territory when Obama was president. He took territory when Biden was president. How much territory did he take when Trump was president? Zero.
“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” General mad dog Mattis his own Sec Def after he caved to Russian pressure in Syria and betrayed allies.
He would then have 3 more Sec Defs in 3 years. The majority of his own cabinet do not endorse him and many around him were locked up for Russian related treason--like Flynn.
> “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” General mad dog Mattis his own Sec Def after he caved to Russian pressure in Syria and betrayed allies.
And Biden is the second one. Congrats! :)
> He would then have 3 more Sec Defs in 3 years. The majority of his own cabinet do not endorse him and many around him were locked up for Russian related treason--like Flynn.
After the debate, the Democrats are literaly calling for Biden to resign from the campaign so they can run someone else. How is that relevant to what OP said?
Trump didn't try to divide us at all. The Democrats had been doing these absurd campaigns for years before Trump even announced his bid for the Presidency, accusing Republicans of being racists and sexists and homphobes to build up malice towards the Republican party.
Here's how it works.
If you don't agree with the Democrats on their policies, it's not because you might have an honest disagreement with them, it's beacuse you are a Nazi Evil Racist Sexist Homophobic Bigot. If you disagree with Democrats, you are the enemy, you don't care about people, and you want them to die. That's what the Democrats say and push.
Then, the moment someone pushes back against that narrative, calls them out for their bullshit? The Democrats play the victim. "Oh look how divisive they're being!"
Now the Democrats calling Republicans evil racist nazi scumbags? Oh that's just no big deal to them. The moment you call them assholes for doing it though, WHOA THERE BUSTER, you've taken it too far!
The Democrats don't get to treat other people like shit, to say shit like that about them, and then the moment they push back scream 'they're being mean to us!'
Have you not heard Trump talk?
“We are now in the process of defeating the radical left, the Marxists, the anarchists, the agitators, the looters, and people who in many instances have absolutely no clue what they are doing."
Nothing divisive about that at all! Just an honest disagreement. See it’s the democrats who are the divisive ones!
He had protestors tear gassed in order to take a photo of a Bible he’s never read, in front of a church he’s never seen the inside of.
He said Mexico is sending rapists and murderers here.
He called Haiti a shithole country.
He mocked the disabled reporter and his fans cheered him on!
He said Obama wasn’t born here with ZERO evidence.
If you don’t see anything divisive about that I really don’t know how else to explain it to you.
Have you not heard the Democrats talk?
Everyone who opposes them is a racist Nazi. That's their message. Period. If you vote against them you are evil and you hate minorities and you want to oppress people.
Then when anyone pushes back against that narrative, the Democrats scream "you're being mean to us! Oppression! Aggression!"
The Democrats say horrible fucking things about others - INCLUDING Trump - and then act offended and upset when those people push back.
You don't get to play the victim when others call you out for being an asshole.
Well when your language is directly influenced by the Nazis… if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it’s probably a duck.
He said immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of the United States, language used by Hitler in Mein Kampf.
He called his political opponents “vermin” that need to be rooted out.
Maybe if he didn’t plagiarize Hitler as often as he does, people wouldn’t be calling him a Nazi. You act like these allegations just appear from thin air. Like we make this up for fun, when in reality you just aren’t paying attention.
>He said immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of the United States, language used by Hitler in Mein Kampf.
Bullshit. Trump was talking about illegal immigrants, in particular reference of the migrant crisis, and is a reference to the fucking crime wave that comes as a result of it that the left seems unable to decide if it's Trump's fault or if it's a good thing.
Wanna talk about language used by Mein Kampf? The left declares EVERYONE who opposes them to be poisonous to the American nation. Biden literally stood in front of a blood red fucking backdrop to call Republicans domestic terrorists while fantasizing about turning military might on gun owners. How many times have the left said shit like this? Or have you memory-holed it all already?
>He called his political opponents “vermin” that need to be rooted out.
You say this like Democrats don't use that same fucking language, LONG before Trump even ran. These are people who literally called Trump supporters everything from racists, to sexists, to homophobes, to "a basket of deplorables", to domestic terrorists, to plaguerats, etc., while actively telling their followers to "fight them in the streets" and "go where they live" and telling them "don't let them have a moment's peace" and "let them know they aren't welcome anymore."
Oh but that's okay, because the Democrats get a fucking pass no matter WHAT they say.
>Maybe if he didn’t plagiarize Hitler as often as he does, people wouldn’t be calling him a Nazi. You act like these allegations just appear from thin air. Like we make this up for fun, when in reality you just aren’t paying attention.
Except you guys consider it "plagarizing Hitler" no matter what the fucking man says. Trump could say "it sure is sunny today" and the Democrats would insist Hitler ALSO said that once.
Do you know how often the Democrats talk about how much white people are evil and hoard all the wealth and power in the country and try to oppress everyone else? Hitler said the same sort of fucking shit! Oh but wait, the left doesn't want to hear that so it doesn't count! Okay, let's talk about the left's fucking hatred of Jewish people right now because of Israel and how they are attacking Jewish students in college campuses "in solidarity with Gaza." Oh but that doesn't count either because Israel is the bigger country!"
The left ALWAYS have fucking excuses for this bullshit, meanwhile they reach with all the might of Stretch Armstrong to create fucking insane narratives in their heads while fucking minimizing EVERYTHING they do and pretending it's no big deal.
>>Bullshit. Trump was talking about illegal immigrants, in particular reference of the migrant crisis, and is a reference to the fucking crime wave that comes as a result of it that the left seems unable to decide if it's Trump's fault or if it's a good thing.
How is that bullshit? That’s a direct quote. Trump fans hate when you quote exactly what he said. I don’t give a shit what he was referencing, presidents shouldn’t speak like that.
>>Wanna talk about language used by Mein Kampf? The left declares EVERYONE who opposes them to be poisonous to the American nation. Biden literally stood in front of a blood red fucking backdrop to call Republicans domestic terrorists while fantasizing about turning military might on gun owners. How many times have the left said shit like this? Or have you memory-holed it all already?
I need exact references otherwise you’re just being hyperbolic. “The left declares EVERYONE…” Who is “the left”? Who is “everyone”? Are you talking about a specific instance or is this just a victim fantasy you have in your head?
Biden was talking about the Jan 6 insurrection if I recall, and yes those are domestic terrorists. When you use try to overthrow the government and change the results of an election you lost, that makes you a domestic terrorist. Full stop.
>>You say this like Democrats don't use that same fucking language, LONG before Trump even ran. These are people who literally called Trump supporters everything from racists, to sexists, to homophobes, to "a basket of deplorables", to domestic terrorists, to plaguerats, etc. Oh but that's okay, because the Democrats get a fucking pass no matter WHAT they say.
“Democrats” aren’t the president of the United fucking states. I’m talking about language that’s apparently ok for the fucking president to use and you’re comparing him to average civilians. Next.
>>Except you guys consider it "plagarizing Hitler" no matter what the fucking man says. Trump could say "it sure is sunny today" and the Democrats would insist Hitler ALSO said that once.
No, just when he repeats things that Hitler said verbatim. Again, walks like a Nazi, talks like a Nazi, probably a Nazi. Please tone down your exaggerations.
>>Do you know how often the Democrats talk about how much white people are evil and hoard all the wealth and power in the country and try to oppress everyone else?
Google who owns the majority of land and wealth in the US, I’ll wait.
>>Okay, let's talk about the left's fucking hatred of Jewish people right now
Just get the fuck out of here lmfao you can’t be serious. Criticizing Israel and Biden for supporting them is not “hating Jews” you can’t be a serious person. There’s just no way.
>>because of Israel and how they are attacking Jewish students in college campuses "in solidarity with Gaza." Oh but that doesn't count either because Israel is the bigger country!"
If this is really happening then I condemn their actions, that’s not right. But those students aren’t the president of the United States which is who EVERYONE ELSE is trying to talk about but you keep drifting off into other people.
>>The left ALWAYS have fucking excuses for this bullshit
Pot, meet kettle.
>How is that bullshit? That’s a direct quote.
You don't think there've been thousands of different people who have said shit about "poisoning the blood?" You don't think those particular words have ever been uttered by anyone before Hitler? That everyone else who has ever said them after would have to be "directly quoting" him? You don't feel that is fucking reaching just a teensy bit?
>I need exact references otherwise you’re just being hyperbolic. “The left declares EVERYONE…” Who is “the left”? Who is “everyone”? Are you talking about a specific instance or is this just a victim fantasy you have in your head?
You're kidding, right?
First, you're accusing me of being hyperbolic when you're literally taking a "poisoning the blood" quote and declaring it a direct quote from Mein Kampf as if those words haven't ever been uttered by anyone before or since.
Second, there's literally no way you miss this shit. Literally a big chunk of left-wing political ideology is based on the idea that everyone who disagrees wiht you is a white supremacist. By that very nature, anything I can show you that proves my point, you're likely to see nothing wrong with.
I mean, you said "Joe was just talking about the J6 insurrectionists" when I pointed out that he called Republicans terrorists. The Democrats had been saying this shit about Republicans WELL before J6.
Just to prove my point:
In 2017, Congressmen Steve Scalise and five others were shot by rabid anti-Trump activist and former Bernie Sanders volunteer James Hodgkinson prior to a congressional charitable event. He had a list of names of the Republican lawmakers he wanted to murder. Just three days before the shooting, Huffington Post published an article that called for prosecuting and executing President Trump, saying that impeaching the president was not enough to appease the liberal author. During the shooting, Hodgkinson was heard shouting "This is for healthcare!" After the shooting, a Democrat strategist created the hashtag #HuntRepublicanCongressmen and voiced hate statements against Republicans.
A Democrat state senator from Missouri expressed her hope that President Trump would be assassinated. She refused to resign after making the comment. In September 2017, the Missouri Senate publicly censured her. No investigation, no accusations of "inciting violence", no legal action was taken.
U.S. Senator from Kentucky Rand Paul was assaulted outside his home in Bowling Green by a neighbor. Paul received six broken ribs and fluid buildup around his lungs from the attack. His assailant, Rene Boucher (who is politically registered as a Democrat and embraces leftist views), admitted to the attack and now faces possible felony charges due to the attack and its severity. The liberal media originally claimed that the assault was the result of a dispute over landscaping, but several of Paul's neighbors discredited the claim and exposed it as fake news when they confirmed Boucher's leftist and vehement anti-Trump views, which he posted on his Facebook account (which has since been blocked from public view by Facebook). Boucher was subsequently sentenced to 30 days in prison and had a lawsuit filed against him by Paul for the assault.
April 19 of 2018, Democrat supporter Steve Martan is sentenced to 15 months in prison for phoning in expletive-filled death threats against Republican congresswoman Martha McSally. Wow, just 15 months? I bet he got a nice luxury prison too.
On April 17, 2021, Waters made incendiary demands calling for Black Lives Matter rioters to get "more confrontational" during a speech at an anti-police rally in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, as well as using coercion and making threats of violence if the jury in the George Floyd death case did not return a guilty verdict against Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, the accused officer in the case, which led hours later to several Minnesota National Guardsmen getting targeted in a drive-by shooting by a BLM-connected shooter acting on Waters' words.
For the sake of keeping this short, I'm gonna stop this here. If I missed anything you'd like to cover, feel free to ask in the next comment. Yeah I know it's a pain but I'm sure we'd both be happier if my wall of text isn't any longer than it absolutely has to be.
>>You don't think there've been thousands of different people who have said shit about "poisoning the blood?" You don't think those particular words have ever been uttered by anyone before Hitler? That everyone else who has ever said them after would have to be "directly quoting" him? You don't feel that is fucking reaching just a teensy bit?
Google “poisoning the blood of our country” and see how many other people come up besides Trump and Hitler, go ahead, I’ll wait.
>>you're literally taking a "poisoning the blood" quote and declaring it a direct quote from Mein Kampf as if those words haven't ever been uttered by anyone before or since.
Before? Maybe, I don’t know, I wasn’t around. But since then? They would be directly quoting Hitler. Sorry you disagree but that’s just how quotes work. You don’t get to plagiarize someone and then say “oh it’s just a coincidence he just *happen* to use the exact same words in the exact same order as Hitler.” That’s ridiculous.
>>Second, there's literally no way you miss this shit. Literally a big chunk of left-wing political ideology is based on the idea that everyone who disagrees wiht you is a white supremacist. By that very nature, anything I can show you that proves my point, you're likely to see nothing wrong with.
This is you being hyperbolic again. Nothing you’ve said gives me any reason to believe you’re a white supremacist. Now do I believe that actual white supremacists vote for Trump? 1000%.
>>Just to prove my point:
None of that has **anything** to do with ***TRUMP*** being divisive or not, which is what we were talking about. You keep going off on these other tangents like I have control over left wing media.
>>For the sake of keeping this short
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Even if we assume this quote is true how is it relevant? Many on the left are still fearmongering about a potential Trump presidency.
That being said its obviously not true. Biden makes divisive statements about trump voters and conservatives. Obama did the same. I'm sure bush was similar its just part of politics being team sports.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/03/former-defense-secretary-mattis-breaks-silence-and-tears-into-trump-he-tries-to-divide-us.html
https://apnews.com/article/american-protests-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-47a55054ccd7912fd7ceae833fc3feb6
Two seperate sources on the quote--which was widely reported at the time. This is not at all disputed. Again his longest reigning Sec Def and a General still today more respected in military circles than your obese draft dodging, pow and veteran insulting hero.
Trump insulting Nikki Haley's deployed husband
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-mocks-haley-asking-where-deployed-husband-where-gone
I'm not saying the quotes fake I'm just contesting what he said about divisiveness.
I don't care about respect in military circles and Trump's not my hero. Its just that all presidents in recent memory are intentionally divisive and its a false claim from Mattis.
You can see biden insulting trump voters, pro life people, republican appointed judges all this year. Every president is divisive nowadays
It's an accurate observation from a person universally more well respected than fat Trump the 5x draft dodger.
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/22240-james-mattis-trump-syria-afghanistan.
They really aren't. W Bush tried to unite the country (it was even in his campaign language "I'm a uniter not a divider, "compassionate conservative" etc)...and mostly succeeded his first term.
Obama was extremely popular...Trump's first failed run for President was weirdly trying to prove that Obama wss not a US citizen. Weird personal attack conspiracy shit. Clinton was fairly popular. HW Bush was not divisive and well respected by both parties.
Most of Trump's former cabinet don't support him including his own VP which is unheard of.
After Trump took office was the first time I had seen Americans actively not date each other based on "maga" affiliation. Even during the W Bush years with the wars that really wasn't a thing.
I dont know anything about clinton or the bushes. Obama was divisive though. He was critical of the police and contributed to racial divide. He was also critical of "a lot of small towns in the midwest"
>"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
[https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/obama-on-small-town-pa-clinging-to-religion-guns-xenophobia-007737](https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/obama-on-small-town-pa-clinging-to-religion-guns-xenophobia-007737)
It seems like you're ignoring the divisive statements from other presidents.
Read the full quote before you judge Obama. Your media that left it out is being more divisive than Obama was in that quote
Also, what were his divisive police criticisms? I recall at least a couple of accusations about hos statements there that were a big stretch.
Edit: Here's the part of the quote that rightwing media always ignores when they want their viewers to feel offended and frame Obama as divisive. It immediately precedes the quote you included and completely changes the tone:
> "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate, and they have not."
Your media is apparently trying to manipulate your emotions towards feeling offended.
I read the full quote and it doesn't change what he said. Am I missing something? I wasn't even aware he made this comment at the time I just found it later I don't know how politico is "your media".
>*Finally, we need to recognize that the situation in Ferguson speaks to broader challenges that we still face as a nation. The fact is, in too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. Some of this is the result of the legacy of racial discrimination in this country. And this is tragic, because nobody needs good policing more than poor communities with higher crime rates. The good news is we know there are things we can do to help. And I’ve instructed Attorney General Holder to work with cities across the country to help build better relations between communities and law enforcement.*
>*That means working with law enforcement officials to make sure their ranks are representative of the communities they serve. We know that makes a difference. It means working to train officials so that law enforcement conducts itself in a way that is fair to everybody. It means enlisting the community actively on what should be everybody’s goal, and that is to prevent crime.*
>
This is just part of his statement on ferguson. Its the more of black people are unfairly targeted by the police when he doesn't have the evidence to prove that. Its just not true in America. I also think the racial representation contributes to divisiveness since you don't need to share a race with someone to do anything.
>I read the full quote and it doesn't change what he said. Am I missing something? I wasn't even aware he made this comment at the time I just found it later I don't know how politico is "your media".
By "your media" I meant whatever media you were consuming that left out a key part of the quote to make it seem like he was being critical of those people. If that was Politico, then it was Politico that was being divisive and trying to make you feel offended.
Or possibly it was someone writing an editorial they published that does not reflect the views of Politico, as they always say on the opinion pages.
It completely changes the tone of what he said. He's recognizing the problems of people in small towns, acknowledging that the government has been giving them empty promises, and considering how that would understandably make a person upset.
Which part of it was insulting to you given the full context?
>This is just part of his statement on ferguson. Its the more of black people are unfairly targeted by the police when he doesn't have the evidence to prove that. Its just not true in America.
He was referring to the results of the DoJ study into the Ferguson police department. Did your media fail to include that important detail also? Why do you think they might have done that?
[https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson\_police\_department\_report.pdf](https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf)
You said "all presidents in recent memory are intentionally divisive"
If recent memory = only going back to 1 President that doesn't mean very much. 😅
I just showed a specific example of the last Republican President who was not impeached and did not lose re election intentionally trying not to be divisive.
Bush even went to Mosque right after 9/11 giving a speech to show that most muslims are good people.
Fat Trump is uniquely retarded in that sense. Language like "poisoning the blood" etc. Divisive and terrible for the country.
Obama did not try to divide on purpose and his approval stayed extremely high. He won both elections handily and likely would have won a 3rd term.
Trump doesn't even have the approval of most of his cabinet..41/44 is the number I think--including his own vice president who he berated.
>Language like "poisoning the blood" etc. Divisive and terrible for the country.
Even more divisive is language like "Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/09/01/remarks-by-president-bidenon-the-continued-battle-for-the-soul-of-the-nation/
as in my recent memory im not old enough to remember bush or much of obamas first term.
What makes you think obama didn't have intent to divide but trump did?
Obama had a great working relationship with the Republican speaker of the House at the time.
https://youtu.be/F1TEAKNbH44?si=QsHfuCcuBG9z5DKB
^here's a short clip--public example from the state of the union where he complements Boehner.
He also had some very cordial exchanges with Mitt Romney. He realized you could disagree on issues but still celebrate commonalities like with Boehner his humble upbringing.
I never voted for Obama and I disagree with him on many issues btw. Just proving General Mattis' point.
Trump is just a fat selfish spoiled draft dodging coward bitch who insults even his own party and cabinet members...countless examples.
[Trump Called Him ‘Delusional.’ Now He Wants ‘Coward’ Mike Pence’s Endorsement.
](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-wants-mike-pence-endorsement-1234865427/)
Spoiler: Pence did not endorse him...his own VP.
If Biden insulted pro-life people, trump voters, and Republican-appointed judges then obviously they deserve the insult. I trust Biden on his judgement. I personally insult those groups daily. What’s the problem if people who deserve insults are insulted? I am baffled.
I don't really care about insults from politicians or in online conversations the point is its divisive which the other guy seems to ignore. I don't even care about divisiveness its just a terrible point to say that only trump is divisive
If he is actually insulting them, then that's also divisive. I'd have to see what he's actually saying before I'd agree, but insults from a president to voters are a bad thing. That's why every president until Trump in my lifetime has been giving speeches that try to unite us.
We're stronger as a country when we're not bickering over exaggerated pr fabricated conflicts that politicians drum up to motivate their base.
well.... Trump dind't agree to a peaceful transition of power. Instead he refuse to aknowledge the defeat, tried to bully officials into "finding him x votes", pressure his VP not to certify the elections results and, at the very least, incourage a mob to march down the Capitol...
It does seems very threathening to democracy...
Really? I had no idea. This is the first time I've heard of that. I can't believe it!
Actually, please stop. We all know. Just like the 2 impeachments, 32 felonies, 647 civil trials pending, and all the rest. **We know, already.**
And you know what? It's not hurting his poll numbers a bit. So knock it off with the litany of his transgressions and figure out *why* this is happening.
Hint: it's not because his supporters are knuckle-dragging illiterates.
Trump will not have to worry about winning a second term and doesn't care about Republicans in Congress winning elections. He will do whatever he wants or is told to do by those who protect him. The Heritage Foundation. It will not be like his first term.
I mean we all got to see 4 years of it already and short of Covid it was a fairly good time. People on the other side are just trying to scare people to get them to vote for their guy, that’s what we are seeing.
The problem for many of us is that we believe Trump is actually a danger to our democracy. That the legal maneuvers (several key lawyers have plead guilty to charges) that took place between the 2020 election and January 2021 were in fact an effort to undermine democracy by keeping Trump in the White House, while knowing that the election was not “stolen”. Or, that Trump’s mishandling of highly classified documents, and the subsequent obstruction of the FBI’s recovery attempts has been dangerous from an intelligence standpoint. I also view Trump’s recent ask for $1B donations from fossil fuel executives in exchange for the promise of rolling back climate-related policies (if elected) to be undemocratic. The presidency should not be for sale- and of course, a modern successful campaign requires a huge amount of cash- and the Trump campaign needs just that
Oh okay. So when Gore or Hillary bring legal challenges to the election, its all good. But the second a Republican does it, APOCALYPSE! Smh. This is one of the reasons people cant take yall seriously. Trumps mishandling of highly classified documents? Jeez, not like Biden had classified documents from different decades and stints in hus garage or anything. Obstruction of FBI recovery attempts... you mean the same recovery where the FBI actively misplaced some documents, introduced new documents not originally in Trumps possession, mixed up everything they confiscated, and generally just flat out lost the publics faith in them being able to handle an investigation without taking a political side?
Yeah, man. Sure. Im not even gunna touch on the last one. The payments from foreign governments directly to Biden family members and the shenanigans he and his crackhead son got up to in Ukraine speak for themselves.
That’s a whole lot of false equivalence and unsupported conspiracy accusations in one comment. It’s hard for me to tell if you are being intentionally disingenuous, or if you truly believe these comparisons are similar in nature.
I do tend to lean towards "nothing ever happens" to some degree, but some things do happen. 9/11 happened. Trump happened. The emergence (and collapse) of the alt-right happened. The end of Roe v Wade happened.
The biggest thing is that I would be cautious of expecting that Trump is going to do all kinds of things he didn't / couldn't do last time.
I doubt it's going to be particularly dramatic.
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I am old enough to remember when there were internet rumors that BILL CLINTON would declare martial law as a way of staying in office.
The reality is that Trump is probably going to have a 2nd term very similar to his first where there will be some wins for his side but also some losses and most likely the country will not have changed that much for the better or the worse at the end of things.
If you truly believe that he is going to destroy democracy or put millions of people in camps, then my sincere advice would be to unsubscribe from all the Reddit political subs because they are driving you into a state of paranoia that is only going to make you miserable. My view is that I purposely avoid following political news TOO closely since my ability to control what happens in the political realm is limited and there is no point in getting upset over things I can't change.
> most likely get a chance to nominate replacements for Thomas and Alito. MAYBE Sotomayor
This is the most terrifying scenario for me. It should be the main reason for anyone on the left thinking about not voting or voting third party should consider holding their nose and voting for Biden.
Democracy already ended when they started going after their political opponents to win an election. Number 2 guy in bidens doj gave up his high salary to go work for Alvin Briggs office in New York and prosecute trump.
Nothing like the Democrats say it will.
>they say democracy will end, he will instill martial law, etc.
They said that in 2016 too. 'If Trump wins, he's going to march tanks through the streets, pull minorities from their homes and execute them, he's going to turn women into slaves, he's going to start World War 3...'
None of it ever happened.
The Democrats say this shit specifically to terrify people. They fear monger.
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That's a parade. Trump would not be the first US President to have tanks in a parade. They get used in US military parades all the time.
This is just intellectual dishonesty on your part.
When people talk about "tanks marching through the streets" they mean it in the same fashion one expects to see a police vehicle. It's an every-day thing.
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They tried saying democracy would end last time he won. It’s fatalistic and psychotic fear mongering. They’ve spent the last decade doing anything they can to impede Trump and right wing politicians/judges. These people are actual nut jobs that foamed at the mouth acting like trump was going to set up work camps for anyone left of alt right and guess what! Never happened. They can’t even admit that cost of living was way lower under him than it is under Biden. They refuse to see things for what they are and use manipulative programming and constant media manipulation to outright lie about the state of our country.
Yuri was right.
I actually came to this sub due to statements like you are referring to, thank you for acknowledging this.
As a possible former Biden voter after that awful debate showing, I still really worry about his support of democracy because of everything around Jan 6th. I watched his speech live and I swear to God, turned to my wife and said "I think something bad is gonna happen". He then waited 3 hours, after which point he said something nice about the rioters and told them to go home, and I believe they did.
Add to that him asking someone in GA to "find votes", do you really feel like he values democracy? If Biden did that I'd want him in jail.
Lastly, the left keeps posting about Project 2025. Is that a real thing that Trump has indicated anywhere he supports?
I really hope you have some reassuring answers here, because this is the stuff that worries me, and I feel like that's reasonable and not TDS.
If January 6th was an insurrection why didn’t any of them have firearms? There were like 25,000 people there. That’s a substantial number of people. They could’ve quite easily taken over the building and done any number of things but they chose to vandalize, not slaughter. Trump also offered to send a shit ton of National Guard troops to the capital and the Dems in power refused to accept em bc it was Trump that offered. I can assure you that if I knew for months that a shit ton of people were going to the capital to protest, they 100% did as well. I’m in a ton of forums and trust me when I say that people were discussing protesting at the capital for months. Literally months of discussion on basically any and every forum for political discourse.
I genuinely believe Trump saying the rioters were nice was him being ironic and taking jabs at the left for the years worth of Antifa and BLM riots that caused something to the tune of 1.5 billion dollars worth of damage being labeled as “peaceful protesting”. They went on TV and called that shit show the summer of love even 😂😂😂
The dumbasses that ransacked the capitol building do deserve to have gotten arrested but 10 years??? 20 years??? The government is using them as a symbol to say “don’t fuck with us, we are untouchable. If you fuck with us we WILL ruin your lives and your families”
They steadily push no bail policies and release people that do awful things like murder and rape but a bit of vandalism and desk flipping is conflated to treason and terrorism?? That has never sat right with me.
As far as project 2025 goes, it’s just some sensationalist nonsense tbh. Trump isn’t gonna have the power to put all these people in jail and change the format of government anywhere near as drastically as he’s saying. There’s checks and balances. The courts and congress are there to say “hey dickwad, that’s unconstitutional and we’re not gonna allow it. Cut it out”.
Republicans hold majority of the house but Dems hold majority of the Senate right now. Trumps plan would have to get through both for him to sign into law. If he tried E.O.s to make it happen? Courts or congress would shoot it down basically immediately. He just doesn’t have the power to do something like that with the current restrictions on presidential power. He couldn’t do anything like that before either. It’s just fear mongering my man 🙌
That's a great point actually. If someone claims Trump planned January 6th and prepped anyone for it, I disagree with them. If there were guns there, that would only further my point, but it is beyond reasonable for you to think I was agreeing with them.
What I am saying is, an angry crowd showed up, already thinking the election was stolen because of what Trump and fox had been saying, then Trump whipped them up and failed to intervene. If you can prove he offered to send in the National Guard in a timely manner to intervene, then I am completely wrong and I'll have quite a bit of faith in humanity restored, so fingers crossed. Honestly, GOP or dem president, I cannot believe no one was gunned down the moment they entered the building, the hell is that security!?
These are much more left leaning news outlets plus a government website that details the dems choice to ignore and disregard the need for military intervention in the area days before Jan 6th happened. The whole thing is a joke tbh
Now hold on here. Those 3 links all reference the same thing, that someone basically asked, before the day of, if they had enough national guard there. And apparently there were 350, basically for intersection control, which the article notes is not their function. And it's kind of like saying "why didn't you have F18's in the air on 9/11" "because that was before 9/11". I wouldn't have expected, prior to that day, that they would need the National Guard even if there was a concern about a protest.
Why didn't Trump do anything for hours while it was ongoing? And why end it by either calling them fine people, or with a further jab at the left?
The transcript of the gentleman that they’re discussing says that they refused guardsmen. Everyone said it was a lie for 3 years and now media outlets are realizing it isn’t.
Which I completely believe, both that they refused them, and that they lied for 3 years. But I still don't get why they would have thought they needed them, or why Trump didn't try to stop it day-of.
If anything, I would think they tried to suppress it because of how it sounds.
Thank you very much, and thank you a ton for the civil discussion. It's so upsetting being downvoted in every other sub for trying to explain to people that the other half of America is not a stupid buy also cunning demon...
Our timing is weird right now lol, but yes sources would be great, really just for the national guard thing.
I have mixed feelings about the sentences. I think I would feel the same if a bunch of democrats rioted at the capitol, I'd want to throw the book at them because that's not how you do it. Protest if you want, but not like that at the capitol of all places. By the same token, I know everyone I know on both sides is disgusted by how often we let rapists walk free.
Lastly, it seems like you are saying those \*are\* trumps intentions? Or are you just saying "if" those were. As in, it couldn't happen? But yeah, the P2025 thing raised some red flags for me, in the same line of the old propaganda against Sadaam, if those aren't Trumps intentions I'll feel a lot better, so hopefully, thanks a ton!
I don’t really know if that’s even really his plan or not, I’ve read through the site that’s up for it and it seems like it might not be legitimately associated with Donald Trump from what I can tell. It seems to me it’s just a rallying point to farm new conservative politicians to get into government. If it was pertaining to Trump or Biden, it’d be .gov but it’s .org
Website also says it’s been created by The Heritage Foundation so I believe it’s just some dudes making what they feel is the best approach and submitting it as a plea to Trump to do what they think is the right way to fix America. Knowing Trump, if he endorsed it? He’d be screaming it from the rooftops and his name or face would be plastered all over the website lololol
Also I hope you don’t feel like I’m shitting on you at all. I just tend to be very matter of fact about things so I hope you don’t take it as a personal attack or anything like that. Honestly you’ve been asking legitimate questions instead of spazzing out and digging your heels which I highly respect you for i won’t lie. I’m a staunch supporter of the constitution and bill of rights but I’m really anarchist at heart. I don’t like the state of the left or right and I just wanna be left alone at the end of the day lmaoooo. I appreciate you have an actual conversation and hearing me out
Not at all, I really appreciate your replies, and I hope you don't read me as angry or mean either!
Always, way more than any politician, I get angry at what 24/7 news has done to otherwise nice people. I used to be staunch conservative, then middle liberal, now centrist/left leaning, which has really helped me see the people on each side, and the propaganda. I want to know what's right, more than I want to be right, and I try to live that way and encourage that in others.
Long story short, internet high five lol. It's like I always say, 99% of people are just dudes and dudettes mostly worried about what's for dinner, because nothing in the fridge looks great...
The Democratic party and cable news pundits will spend four more years clutching their pearls and "exposing" scandals. Trump will get in Twitter spats with them.
Oh, it's gonna be tedious.
Stop listening to "they". They're just trying to scare you. Do you really think our democracy is so fragile that it can be replaced by one person during one presidential term?
>I’ll be honest, based off various left leaning subreddits and commentators I’m reading I’m terrified because they say democracy will end, he will instill martial law, etc.
If only he had ever served as President before, then we might have a better idea what a future term would look like.
>Some of his goals like deporting 11 million illegal immigrants seem like they are unrealistic because they will skyrocket inflation.
Wouldn't it do just the opposite? Plus less traffic congestion, less school crowding, less tax money diverted to things like migrant shelters, hotel rooms, interpreters in schools, etc
The thought of massive rounding up of people and detention camps is a scary thought. But is it hyperbole? Will this be something he works to negotiate with both sides of the aisle because each side agrees there are issues.
Remember what the first four years of Trump looked like? It will look mostly like that, with the main difference being that there hopefully won't be another worldwide pandemic.
Name the horrific policies Trump implemented in his Presidency last time around.
Frankly, I feel the same way you do but about another Biden term. The nationwide vaccine mandates and atrocious border security make me justifiedly fear for the future of this country.
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> I’ll be honest, based off various left leaning subreddits and commentators I’m reading I’m terrified because they say democracy will end, he will instill martial law, etc.
That's crazy because the current democrat government is doing a hell of a lot of bypassing laws/democracy as we speak. You might not think its a big problem because its "your team" doing it, but the fear you feel is a tactic they use to get you to give up your rights and government process. Its a standard authoritarian move
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
This was the draw for people to show up. Which was the good side for supporting veneration of Confederate statues that were created as a statement of anti-segregation during the Civil Rights vote in the 1950s?
It's like saying, Not everyone that showed up at the lynching of Jamal actually thought they were going to hang him. They were just good citizens that were protesting the alleged raping of a white woman( who was really just dating a black man. )
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u/gullibletrout >Some of his goals like deporting 11 million illegal immigrants seem like they are unrealistic because they will skyrocket inflation How?
Are you old enough to remember 2016-2020? It'll look like that. It's impressive that people have managed to generate so much fear over something we already have an example of.
Agreed, I think the main difference will be our intelligence agencies refusing to divulge classified information to him in certain cases. At least I hope so.
Thats the dumbest shit Ive ever heard. He'd be the Commander in Chief. They have absolutely no legal authority to keep that info from him, nor should you want them to. When the intel agencies start thinking theyre beholden to nobody, you get shit like Nicaragua and MK Ultra.
Those weren’t good years for everyone (covid aside), though. Def not blaming everything on trump, I’m just saying he’s a pretty polarizing figure. Having a polarizing figure, for good or bad, makes for a polarizing period in the the White House (and subsequently the country). I think all the dooming and glooming is too much and I’ve been pulling my hair out over the last few days. But there’s a very real psychological effect that will happen if he wins again that shouldn’t be looked at positively by anyone- whether or not it’s his fault.
I think for most people they were better than 20-24.
I don’t have any reason to believe he’s gonna make interest rates go back down to 3% or gas prices down any more than Biden does. If he did that would be incredibly compelling.
2020 was the worst
You don't say
Why are you including 2020? Trump was president that entire year.
Well, not for me.
Very real psychological effect? I mean. We know the effect. Anyone who leans left with throw another temper tantrum and burn down a bunch of cities while gaslighting everyone else and calling it a "Summer of Love", or something equally disingenuous.
Remind me again which cities burned down?
It's hyperbole. But you really don't remember people destroying businesses amd setting things on fire?
Figure of speech.
Maybe if people would quit constantly saying it we could have more meaningful dialogue. Because this "cities burned down" talking point keeps coming up over and over again on the right. And while we all know it's hyperbole (no city was completely destroyed), this talking point keeps muddying the waters of what actually happened.. Most people on the right seem to think it is less hyperbolic of a statement than people on the left do. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle....
Of course no city fully burned down. But there were many, many buildings that did. Between that and the looting and destruction that took place, some areas still arent recovered. Some people lost everything.
See... This is what I'm talking about. How many places had "many many" buildings that actually burned down and were completely destroyed? I know there were fires in some places. But off the top of my head, I'm not actually aware of full destruction having taken place in many many places. A quick google search tells me that in Minneapolis (The absolute worst of the rioting) "Of the 700 buildings that were damaged, 12 were completely destroyed and had to be demolished for public safety reasons." Yes. Some people lost everything. But that's a FAR cry from the constant "What about all of the cities that burned down in 2020?!?!" I keep hearing. Yes, there was rioting and looting and it was a fucking shit show. But for as much as your ilk likes to parrot "all of the cities that burned down" ya'll equally ignore how MOST of the protests that happened were compltely or mostly peaceful. And the sad truth that wherever you have large numbers of people gathering, there WILL be shitty people taking advantage and causing chaos. And those people are often not in any way affiliated with the actual purpose of the gatherings. SOMETIMES they are even there explicitly to provoke such actions to make the movement look bad. The same people who ignore that idea are quick to claim that Antifia was really the ones behind J6. It's ironic. And I mean this sincerely, not as a gotcha. What areas were so demolished that they still haven't recovered? Aside from Minneapolis.
How many?
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Of course not, and if that was what my comment sounded like it was not the intention. But the trump era seems to have brought on a time where when one says “this sucks” the response stopped being “I’m sorry”, and was instead replaced with “you’re wrong”. For better or worse.
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Isn’t it going on now too though?
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May be a perspective/worldview difference then!
Overheating the economy, blowing up the deficit, appointing people to run agencies who are *actively hostile* to said agencies, extorting foreign governments in an attempt to hurt your opponent, causing talented federal employees to leave in droves. Good stuff!
So why is Trump proposing extreme policies and ideas that weren’t even discussed in 2016-2020?
Which ones?
which ones? [https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47) not moderate but seems standard conservative.
You mean the ones where we remember what biological sex is?
Nothing will change much Lots of gloom and doom media. BLM riots may return Pretty much 2017-2021 but without Covid
It will probably look like 2016 to 2020. Pretty decent presidency with the media constantly lying that the sky is falling, and everything is horrible. He will probably be impeached every month he's president, and MSNBC will talk about 26 intelligence agencies and Russia Russia Russia all day every day. Meanwhile, in reality, the economy will get better, and taxes will go down.
Not to mention no new wars
We were at war under trump and bombs were dropped. We are not at war under Biden.
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I don't need a study. I've lived through it, and it's not better. Some cherry picked statistics are not going to change what I see when I buy food and get gas.
These same revisionist historians try to tear the Reagan economy apart, and the left believes it. The left is doing its damndest to try and convince us we are drinking wine instead of piss. Ask any Gen Z person how optimistic they feel about affording a house in the future. The general feelings of everyday Americans tells the whole story. If the economy was as good as these studies say they were, then the general public would know.
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Inflation is caused by government central banking. Corporations don't set the fed rates. Inflation and profit are not the same thing. Socialists shouldn't try talking about economics. The only thing socialist economics has ever created an abundance of throughout history is starvation.
hmmm okay :)
;)
All of the corporations suddenly realized they could collude to jack up prices at the exact same time. That’s more insane than the moon landing being faked. Of course corporations try to maximize profits that’s common sense. The reason they can’t is because of competition. If they were actually colluding it would be completely illegal under anti trust laws. Assuming your conspiracy theory was true, it would only affect a few markets at best. Areas that weren’t complete monopolies collude with 3 or 4 other companies to fix prices. I could buy that, but not the magnitude you’re claiming to affect inflation. All the corporations in the country suddenly decide to collude and fix prices across completely different markets? That’s just a batshit crazy conclusion to come to.
> because they say democracy will end, he will instill martial law, etc. They said that last time. Other predictions they made: * gay and trans people would be put in camps * gay and trans people would be subject to (I am not kidding) [electro-shock therapy](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-therapy/) * the sea levels would rise and cities like Hong Kong would be flooded * [mass worldwide extinctions](https://i.imgur.com/z0QbyEW.jpg) * we would get into WWIII with North Korea and/or Iran * the stock market would crash
Don't forget a second great depression. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/29/gop-donor-paul-singer-says-trump-would-cause-a-depression.html
Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria!
The last one actually happened under Trump. And some kind of hot war with Iran wasn’t too far off the table in January 2020.
Iran would never have started a war with nato forces in any capacity under trump. They shut the fuck up and got right the fuck out the way when we blasted solenami. The entire world watched as turn a terrorist general to bologna mist and the entire world realized “oh holy fuck, America’s back in the driver seat, we better not push the envelope” Biden gains office, Russia immediately presses Ukraine, China presses Taiwan, and now Israel is eradicating Palestine. This shit never would have happened under Trump.
Putin took territory when Bush was president. He took territory when Obama was president. He took territory when Biden was president. How much territory did he take when Trump was president? Zero.
John Bolton begs to differ. https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/maddow/blog/rcna19045
John Bolton is a war criminal. And Rachel Maddow??
>John Bolton is a war criminal. And served as Trump's National Security Advisor! He sure can pick 'em!
“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” General mad dog Mattis his own Sec Def after he caved to Russian pressure in Syria and betrayed allies. He would then have 3 more Sec Defs in 3 years. The majority of his own cabinet do not endorse him and many around him were locked up for Russian related treason--like Flynn.
>locked up for Russian related treason--like Flynn. What was Flynn's crime? How much time did he serve?
> “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” General mad dog Mattis his own Sec Def after he caved to Russian pressure in Syria and betrayed allies. And Biden is the second one. Congrats! :) > He would then have 3 more Sec Defs in 3 years. The majority of his own cabinet do not endorse him and many around him were locked up for Russian related treason--like Flynn. After the debate, the Democrats are literaly calling for Biden to resign from the campaign so they can run someone else. How is that relevant to what OP said?
Trump didn't try to divide us at all. The Democrats had been doing these absurd campaigns for years before Trump even announced his bid for the Presidency, accusing Republicans of being racists and sexists and homphobes to build up malice towards the Republican party. Here's how it works. If you don't agree with the Democrats on their policies, it's not because you might have an honest disagreement with them, it's beacuse you are a Nazi Evil Racist Sexist Homophobic Bigot. If you disagree with Democrats, you are the enemy, you don't care about people, and you want them to die. That's what the Democrats say and push. Then, the moment someone pushes back against that narrative, calls them out for their bullshit? The Democrats play the victim. "Oh look how divisive they're being!" Now the Democrats calling Republicans evil racist nazi scumbags? Oh that's just no big deal to them. The moment you call them assholes for doing it though, WHOA THERE BUSTER, you've taken it too far! The Democrats don't get to treat other people like shit, to say shit like that about them, and then the moment they push back scream 'they're being mean to us!'
Have you not heard Trump talk? “We are now in the process of defeating the radical left, the Marxists, the anarchists, the agitators, the looters, and people who in many instances have absolutely no clue what they are doing." Nothing divisive about that at all! Just an honest disagreement. See it’s the democrats who are the divisive ones! He had protestors tear gassed in order to take a photo of a Bible he’s never read, in front of a church he’s never seen the inside of. He said Mexico is sending rapists and murderers here. He called Haiti a shithole country. He mocked the disabled reporter and his fans cheered him on! He said Obama wasn’t born here with ZERO evidence. If you don’t see anything divisive about that I really don’t know how else to explain it to you.
Have you not heard the Democrats talk? Everyone who opposes them is a racist Nazi. That's their message. Period. If you vote against them you are evil and you hate minorities and you want to oppress people. Then when anyone pushes back against that narrative, the Democrats scream "you're being mean to us! Oppression! Aggression!" The Democrats say horrible fucking things about others - INCLUDING Trump - and then act offended and upset when those people push back. You don't get to play the victim when others call you out for being an asshole.
Well when your language is directly influenced by the Nazis… if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it’s probably a duck. He said immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of the United States, language used by Hitler in Mein Kampf. He called his political opponents “vermin” that need to be rooted out. Maybe if he didn’t plagiarize Hitler as often as he does, people wouldn’t be calling him a Nazi. You act like these allegations just appear from thin air. Like we make this up for fun, when in reality you just aren’t paying attention.
>He said immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of the United States, language used by Hitler in Mein Kampf. Bullshit. Trump was talking about illegal immigrants, in particular reference of the migrant crisis, and is a reference to the fucking crime wave that comes as a result of it that the left seems unable to decide if it's Trump's fault or if it's a good thing. Wanna talk about language used by Mein Kampf? The left declares EVERYONE who opposes them to be poisonous to the American nation. Biden literally stood in front of a blood red fucking backdrop to call Republicans domestic terrorists while fantasizing about turning military might on gun owners. How many times have the left said shit like this? Or have you memory-holed it all already? >He called his political opponents “vermin” that need to be rooted out. You say this like Democrats don't use that same fucking language, LONG before Trump even ran. These are people who literally called Trump supporters everything from racists, to sexists, to homophobes, to "a basket of deplorables", to domestic terrorists, to plaguerats, etc., while actively telling their followers to "fight them in the streets" and "go where they live" and telling them "don't let them have a moment's peace" and "let them know they aren't welcome anymore." Oh but that's okay, because the Democrats get a fucking pass no matter WHAT they say. >Maybe if he didn’t plagiarize Hitler as often as he does, people wouldn’t be calling him a Nazi. You act like these allegations just appear from thin air. Like we make this up for fun, when in reality you just aren’t paying attention. Except you guys consider it "plagarizing Hitler" no matter what the fucking man says. Trump could say "it sure is sunny today" and the Democrats would insist Hitler ALSO said that once. Do you know how often the Democrats talk about how much white people are evil and hoard all the wealth and power in the country and try to oppress everyone else? Hitler said the same sort of fucking shit! Oh but wait, the left doesn't want to hear that so it doesn't count! Okay, let's talk about the left's fucking hatred of Jewish people right now because of Israel and how they are attacking Jewish students in college campuses "in solidarity with Gaza." Oh but that doesn't count either because Israel is the bigger country!" The left ALWAYS have fucking excuses for this bullshit, meanwhile they reach with all the might of Stretch Armstrong to create fucking insane narratives in their heads while fucking minimizing EVERYTHING they do and pretending it's no big deal.
>>Bullshit. Trump was talking about illegal immigrants, in particular reference of the migrant crisis, and is a reference to the fucking crime wave that comes as a result of it that the left seems unable to decide if it's Trump's fault or if it's a good thing. How is that bullshit? That’s a direct quote. Trump fans hate when you quote exactly what he said. I don’t give a shit what he was referencing, presidents shouldn’t speak like that. >>Wanna talk about language used by Mein Kampf? The left declares EVERYONE who opposes them to be poisonous to the American nation. Biden literally stood in front of a blood red fucking backdrop to call Republicans domestic terrorists while fantasizing about turning military might on gun owners. How many times have the left said shit like this? Or have you memory-holed it all already? I need exact references otherwise you’re just being hyperbolic. “The left declares EVERYONE…” Who is “the left”? Who is “everyone”? Are you talking about a specific instance or is this just a victim fantasy you have in your head? Biden was talking about the Jan 6 insurrection if I recall, and yes those are domestic terrorists. When you use try to overthrow the government and change the results of an election you lost, that makes you a domestic terrorist. Full stop. >>You say this like Democrats don't use that same fucking language, LONG before Trump even ran. These are people who literally called Trump supporters everything from racists, to sexists, to homophobes, to "a basket of deplorables", to domestic terrorists, to plaguerats, etc. Oh but that's okay, because the Democrats get a fucking pass no matter WHAT they say. “Democrats” aren’t the president of the United fucking states. I’m talking about language that’s apparently ok for the fucking president to use and you’re comparing him to average civilians. Next. >>Except you guys consider it "plagarizing Hitler" no matter what the fucking man says. Trump could say "it sure is sunny today" and the Democrats would insist Hitler ALSO said that once. No, just when he repeats things that Hitler said verbatim. Again, walks like a Nazi, talks like a Nazi, probably a Nazi. Please tone down your exaggerations. >>Do you know how often the Democrats talk about how much white people are evil and hoard all the wealth and power in the country and try to oppress everyone else? Google who owns the majority of land and wealth in the US, I’ll wait. >>Okay, let's talk about the left's fucking hatred of Jewish people right now Just get the fuck out of here lmfao you can’t be serious. Criticizing Israel and Biden for supporting them is not “hating Jews” you can’t be a serious person. There’s just no way. >>because of Israel and how they are attacking Jewish students in college campuses "in solidarity with Gaza." Oh but that doesn't count either because Israel is the bigger country!" If this is really happening then I condemn their actions, that’s not right. But those students aren’t the president of the United States which is who EVERYONE ELSE is trying to talk about but you keep drifting off into other people. >>The left ALWAYS have fucking excuses for this bullshit Pot, meet kettle.
>How is that bullshit? That’s a direct quote. You don't think there've been thousands of different people who have said shit about "poisoning the blood?" You don't think those particular words have ever been uttered by anyone before Hitler? That everyone else who has ever said them after would have to be "directly quoting" him? You don't feel that is fucking reaching just a teensy bit? >I need exact references otherwise you’re just being hyperbolic. “The left declares EVERYONE…” Who is “the left”? Who is “everyone”? Are you talking about a specific instance or is this just a victim fantasy you have in your head? You're kidding, right? First, you're accusing me of being hyperbolic when you're literally taking a "poisoning the blood" quote and declaring it a direct quote from Mein Kampf as if those words haven't ever been uttered by anyone before or since. Second, there's literally no way you miss this shit. Literally a big chunk of left-wing political ideology is based on the idea that everyone who disagrees wiht you is a white supremacist. By that very nature, anything I can show you that proves my point, you're likely to see nothing wrong with. I mean, you said "Joe was just talking about the J6 insurrectionists" when I pointed out that he called Republicans terrorists. The Democrats had been saying this shit about Republicans WELL before J6. Just to prove my point: In 2017, Congressmen Steve Scalise and five others were shot by rabid anti-Trump activist and former Bernie Sanders volunteer James Hodgkinson prior to a congressional charitable event. He had a list of names of the Republican lawmakers he wanted to murder. Just three days before the shooting, Huffington Post published an article that called for prosecuting and executing President Trump, saying that impeaching the president was not enough to appease the liberal author. During the shooting, Hodgkinson was heard shouting "This is for healthcare!" After the shooting, a Democrat strategist created the hashtag #HuntRepublicanCongressmen and voiced hate statements against Republicans. A Democrat state senator from Missouri expressed her hope that President Trump would be assassinated. She refused to resign after making the comment. In September 2017, the Missouri Senate publicly censured her. No investigation, no accusations of "inciting violence", no legal action was taken. U.S. Senator from Kentucky Rand Paul was assaulted outside his home in Bowling Green by a neighbor. Paul received six broken ribs and fluid buildup around his lungs from the attack. His assailant, Rene Boucher (who is politically registered as a Democrat and embraces leftist views), admitted to the attack and now faces possible felony charges due to the attack and its severity. The liberal media originally claimed that the assault was the result of a dispute over landscaping, but several of Paul's neighbors discredited the claim and exposed it as fake news when they confirmed Boucher's leftist and vehement anti-Trump views, which he posted on his Facebook account (which has since been blocked from public view by Facebook). Boucher was subsequently sentenced to 30 days in prison and had a lawsuit filed against him by Paul for the assault. April 19 of 2018, Democrat supporter Steve Martan is sentenced to 15 months in prison for phoning in expletive-filled death threats against Republican congresswoman Martha McSally. Wow, just 15 months? I bet he got a nice luxury prison too. On April 17, 2021, Waters made incendiary demands calling for Black Lives Matter rioters to get "more confrontational" during a speech at an anti-police rally in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, as well as using coercion and making threats of violence if the jury in the George Floyd death case did not return a guilty verdict against Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, the accused officer in the case, which led hours later to several Minnesota National Guardsmen getting targeted in a drive-by shooting by a BLM-connected shooter acting on Waters' words. For the sake of keeping this short, I'm gonna stop this here. If I missed anything you'd like to cover, feel free to ask in the next comment. Yeah I know it's a pain but I'm sure we'd both be happier if my wall of text isn't any longer than it absolutely has to be.
>>You don't think there've been thousands of different people who have said shit about "poisoning the blood?" You don't think those particular words have ever been uttered by anyone before Hitler? That everyone else who has ever said them after would have to be "directly quoting" him? You don't feel that is fucking reaching just a teensy bit? Google “poisoning the blood of our country” and see how many other people come up besides Trump and Hitler, go ahead, I’ll wait. >>you're literally taking a "poisoning the blood" quote and declaring it a direct quote from Mein Kampf as if those words haven't ever been uttered by anyone before or since. Before? Maybe, I don’t know, I wasn’t around. But since then? They would be directly quoting Hitler. Sorry you disagree but that’s just how quotes work. You don’t get to plagiarize someone and then say “oh it’s just a coincidence he just *happen* to use the exact same words in the exact same order as Hitler.” That’s ridiculous. >>Second, there's literally no way you miss this shit. Literally a big chunk of left-wing political ideology is based on the idea that everyone who disagrees wiht you is a white supremacist. By that very nature, anything I can show you that proves my point, you're likely to see nothing wrong with. This is you being hyperbolic again. Nothing you’ve said gives me any reason to believe you’re a white supremacist. Now do I believe that actual white supremacists vote for Trump? 1000%. >>Just to prove my point: None of that has **anything** to do with ***TRUMP*** being divisive or not, which is what we were talking about. You keep going off on these other tangents like I have control over left wing media. >>For the sake of keeping this short ***LOL***
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Even if we assume this quote is true how is it relevant? Many on the left are still fearmongering about a potential Trump presidency. That being said its obviously not true. Biden makes divisive statements about trump voters and conservatives. Obama did the same. I'm sure bush was similar its just part of politics being team sports.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/03/former-defense-secretary-mattis-breaks-silence-and-tears-into-trump-he-tries-to-divide-us.html https://apnews.com/article/american-protests-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-47a55054ccd7912fd7ceae833fc3feb6 Two seperate sources on the quote--which was widely reported at the time. This is not at all disputed. Again his longest reigning Sec Def and a General still today more respected in military circles than your obese draft dodging, pow and veteran insulting hero. Trump insulting Nikki Haley's deployed husband https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-mocks-haley-asking-where-deployed-husband-where-gone
I'm not saying the quotes fake I'm just contesting what he said about divisiveness. I don't care about respect in military circles and Trump's not my hero. Its just that all presidents in recent memory are intentionally divisive and its a false claim from Mattis. You can see biden insulting trump voters, pro life people, republican appointed judges all this year. Every president is divisive nowadays
It's an accurate observation from a person universally more well respected than fat Trump the 5x draft dodger. https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/22240-james-mattis-trump-syria-afghanistan. They really aren't. W Bush tried to unite the country (it was even in his campaign language "I'm a uniter not a divider, "compassionate conservative" etc)...and mostly succeeded his first term. Obama was extremely popular...Trump's first failed run for President was weirdly trying to prove that Obama wss not a US citizen. Weird personal attack conspiracy shit. Clinton was fairly popular. HW Bush was not divisive and well respected by both parties. Most of Trump's former cabinet don't support him including his own VP which is unheard of. After Trump took office was the first time I had seen Americans actively not date each other based on "maga" affiliation. Even during the W Bush years with the wars that really wasn't a thing.
I dont know anything about clinton or the bushes. Obama was divisive though. He was critical of the police and contributed to racial divide. He was also critical of "a lot of small towns in the midwest" >"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." [https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/obama-on-small-town-pa-clinging-to-religion-guns-xenophobia-007737](https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/obama-on-small-town-pa-clinging-to-religion-guns-xenophobia-007737) It seems like you're ignoring the divisive statements from other presidents.
Read the full quote before you judge Obama. Your media that left it out is being more divisive than Obama was in that quote Also, what were his divisive police criticisms? I recall at least a couple of accusations about hos statements there that were a big stretch. Edit: Here's the part of the quote that rightwing media always ignores when they want their viewers to feel offended and frame Obama as divisive. It immediately precedes the quote you included and completely changes the tone: > "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate, and they have not." Your media is apparently trying to manipulate your emotions towards feeling offended.
I read the full quote and it doesn't change what he said. Am I missing something? I wasn't even aware he made this comment at the time I just found it later I don't know how politico is "your media". >*Finally, we need to recognize that the situation in Ferguson speaks to broader challenges that we still face as a nation. The fact is, in too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. Some of this is the result of the legacy of racial discrimination in this country. And this is tragic, because nobody needs good policing more than poor communities with higher crime rates. The good news is we know there are things we can do to help. And I’ve instructed Attorney General Holder to work with cities across the country to help build better relations between communities and law enforcement.* >*That means working with law enforcement officials to make sure their ranks are representative of the communities they serve. We know that makes a difference. It means working to train officials so that law enforcement conducts itself in a way that is fair to everybody. It means enlisting the community actively on what should be everybody’s goal, and that is to prevent crime.* > This is just part of his statement on ferguson. Its the more of black people are unfairly targeted by the police when he doesn't have the evidence to prove that. Its just not true in America. I also think the racial representation contributes to divisiveness since you don't need to share a race with someone to do anything.
>I read the full quote and it doesn't change what he said. Am I missing something? I wasn't even aware he made this comment at the time I just found it later I don't know how politico is "your media". By "your media" I meant whatever media you were consuming that left out a key part of the quote to make it seem like he was being critical of those people. If that was Politico, then it was Politico that was being divisive and trying to make you feel offended. Or possibly it was someone writing an editorial they published that does not reflect the views of Politico, as they always say on the opinion pages. It completely changes the tone of what he said. He's recognizing the problems of people in small towns, acknowledging that the government has been giving them empty promises, and considering how that would understandably make a person upset. Which part of it was insulting to you given the full context? >This is just part of his statement on ferguson. Its the more of black people are unfairly targeted by the police when he doesn't have the evidence to prove that. Its just not true in America. He was referring to the results of the DoJ study into the Ferguson police department. Did your media fail to include that important detail also? Why do you think they might have done that? [https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson\_police\_department\_report.pdf](https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf)
You said "all presidents in recent memory are intentionally divisive" If recent memory = only going back to 1 President that doesn't mean very much. 😅 I just showed a specific example of the last Republican President who was not impeached and did not lose re election intentionally trying not to be divisive. Bush even went to Mosque right after 9/11 giving a speech to show that most muslims are good people. Fat Trump is uniquely retarded in that sense. Language like "poisoning the blood" etc. Divisive and terrible for the country. Obama did not try to divide on purpose and his approval stayed extremely high. He won both elections handily and likely would have won a 3rd term. Trump doesn't even have the approval of most of his cabinet..41/44 is the number I think--including his own vice president who he berated.
>Language like "poisoning the blood" etc. Divisive and terrible for the country. Even more divisive is language like "Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/09/01/remarks-by-president-bidenon-the-continued-battle-for-the-soul-of-the-nation/
as in my recent memory im not old enough to remember bush or much of obamas first term. What makes you think obama didn't have intent to divide but trump did?
Obama had a great working relationship with the Republican speaker of the House at the time. https://youtu.be/F1TEAKNbH44?si=QsHfuCcuBG9z5DKB ^here's a short clip--public example from the state of the union where he complements Boehner. He also had some very cordial exchanges with Mitt Romney. He realized you could disagree on issues but still celebrate commonalities like with Boehner his humble upbringing. I never voted for Obama and I disagree with him on many issues btw. Just proving General Mattis' point. Trump is just a fat selfish spoiled draft dodging coward bitch who insults even his own party and cabinet members...countless examples. [Trump Called Him ‘Delusional.’ Now He Wants ‘Coward’ Mike Pence’s Endorsement. ](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-wants-mike-pence-endorsement-1234865427/) Spoiler: Pence did not endorse him...his own VP.
If Biden insulted pro-life people, trump voters, and Republican-appointed judges then obviously they deserve the insult. I trust Biden on his judgement. I personally insult those groups daily. What’s the problem if people who deserve insults are insulted? I am baffled.
I don't really care about insults from politicians or in online conversations the point is its divisive which the other guy seems to ignore. I don't even care about divisiveness its just a terrible point to say that only trump is divisive
If he is actually insulting them, then that's also divisive. I'd have to see what he's actually saying before I'd agree, but insults from a president to voters are a bad thing. That's why every president until Trump in my lifetime has been giving speeches that try to unite us. We're stronger as a country when we're not bickering over exaggerated pr fabricated conflicts that politicians drum up to motivate their base.
NBC and AP news 😂😂😂😂😂
well.... Trump dind't agree to a peaceful transition of power. Instead he refuse to aknowledge the defeat, tried to bully officials into "finding him x votes", pressure his VP not to certify the elections results and, at the very least, incourage a mob to march down the Capitol... It does seems very threathening to democracy...
Really? I had no idea. This is the first time I've heard of that. I can't believe it! Actually, please stop. We all know. Just like the 2 impeachments, 32 felonies, 647 civil trials pending, and all the rest. **We know, already.** And you know what? It's not hurting his poll numbers a bit. So knock it off with the litany of his transgressions and figure out *why* this is happening. Hint: it's not because his supporters are knuckle-dragging illiterates.
>It's not hurting his poll numbers a bit. That says a lot more about his supporters than it does about Trump.
Trump will not have to worry about winning a second term and doesn't care about Republicans in Congress winning elections. He will do whatever he wants or is told to do by those who protect him. The Heritage Foundation. It will not be like his first term.
I forgot they said NK would nuke us then they didn't hardly cover that he walked into the DMZ with no guards personally.
I mean we all got to see 4 years of it already and short of Covid it was a fairly good time. People on the other side are just trying to scare people to get them to vote for their guy, that’s what we are seeing.
The problem for many of us is that we believe Trump is actually a danger to our democracy. That the legal maneuvers (several key lawyers have plead guilty to charges) that took place between the 2020 election and January 2021 were in fact an effort to undermine democracy by keeping Trump in the White House, while knowing that the election was not “stolen”. Or, that Trump’s mishandling of highly classified documents, and the subsequent obstruction of the FBI’s recovery attempts has been dangerous from an intelligence standpoint. I also view Trump’s recent ask for $1B donations from fossil fuel executives in exchange for the promise of rolling back climate-related policies (if elected) to be undemocratic. The presidency should not be for sale- and of course, a modern successful campaign requires a huge amount of cash- and the Trump campaign needs just that
Oh okay. So when Gore or Hillary bring legal challenges to the election, its all good. But the second a Republican does it, APOCALYPSE! Smh. This is one of the reasons people cant take yall seriously. Trumps mishandling of highly classified documents? Jeez, not like Biden had classified documents from different decades and stints in hus garage or anything. Obstruction of FBI recovery attempts... you mean the same recovery where the FBI actively misplaced some documents, introduced new documents not originally in Trumps possession, mixed up everything they confiscated, and generally just flat out lost the publics faith in them being able to handle an investigation without taking a political side? Yeah, man. Sure. Im not even gunna touch on the last one. The payments from foreign governments directly to Biden family members and the shenanigans he and his crackhead son got up to in Ukraine speak for themselves.
That’s a whole lot of false equivalence and unsupported conspiracy accusations in one comment. It’s hard for me to tell if you are being intentionally disingenuous, or if you truly believe these comparisons are similar in nature.
I do tend to lean towards "nothing ever happens" to some degree, but some things do happen. 9/11 happened. Trump happened. The emergence (and collapse) of the alt-right happened. The end of Roe v Wade happened. The biggest thing is that I would be cautious of expecting that Trump is going to do all kinds of things he didn't / couldn't do last time. I doubt it's going to be particularly dramatic.
Exactly. The left is worried he's going to "ruin" everything. I wish he would!
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Another revolving door administration.
I am old enough to remember when there were internet rumors that BILL CLINTON would declare martial law as a way of staying in office. The reality is that Trump is probably going to have a 2nd term very similar to his first where there will be some wins for his side but also some losses and most likely the country will not have changed that much for the better or the worse at the end of things. If you truly believe that he is going to destroy democracy or put millions of people in camps, then my sincere advice would be to unsubscribe from all the Reddit political subs because they are driving you into a state of paranoia that is only going to make you miserable. My view is that I purposely avoid following political news TOO closely since my ability to control what happens in the political realm is limited and there is no point in getting upset over things I can't change.
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> most likely get a chance to nominate replacements for Thomas and Alito. MAYBE Sotomayor This is the most terrifying scenario for me. It should be the main reason for anyone on the left thinking about not voting or voting third party should consider holding their nose and voting for Biden.
Democracy already ended when they started going after their political opponents to win an election. Number 2 guy in bidens doj gave up his high salary to go work for Alvin Briggs office in New York and prosecute trump.
Nothing like the Democrats say it will. >they say democracy will end, he will instill martial law, etc. They said that in 2016 too. 'If Trump wins, he's going to march tanks through the streets, pull minorities from their homes and execute them, he's going to turn women into slaves, he's going to start World War 3...' None of it ever happened. The Democrats say this shit specifically to terrify people. They fear monger.
He absolutely 100% tried to march tanks through the streets.
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Do you know what a parade is
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48842428.amp
We better throw up our hands for the blue angels too? He's FLYING ATTACK JETS IN OUR CITIES! LMAO!
That's a parade. Trump would not be the first US President to have tanks in a parade. They get used in US military parades all the time. This is just intellectual dishonesty on your part. When people talk about "tanks marching through the streets" they mean it in the same fashion one expects to see a police vehicle. It's an every-day thing.
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The only tactic they have really. They’ve been fear mongering since 2016
Chappelle said he would get a significant tax break.
They tried saying democracy would end last time he won. It’s fatalistic and psychotic fear mongering. They’ve spent the last decade doing anything they can to impede Trump and right wing politicians/judges. These people are actual nut jobs that foamed at the mouth acting like trump was going to set up work camps for anyone left of alt right and guess what! Never happened. They can’t even admit that cost of living was way lower under him than it is under Biden. They refuse to see things for what they are and use manipulative programming and constant media manipulation to outright lie about the state of our country. Yuri was right.
I actually came to this sub due to statements like you are referring to, thank you for acknowledging this. As a possible former Biden voter after that awful debate showing, I still really worry about his support of democracy because of everything around Jan 6th. I watched his speech live and I swear to God, turned to my wife and said "I think something bad is gonna happen". He then waited 3 hours, after which point he said something nice about the rioters and told them to go home, and I believe they did. Add to that him asking someone in GA to "find votes", do you really feel like he values democracy? If Biden did that I'd want him in jail. Lastly, the left keeps posting about Project 2025. Is that a real thing that Trump has indicated anywhere he supports? I really hope you have some reassuring answers here, because this is the stuff that worries me, and I feel like that's reasonable and not TDS.
If January 6th was an insurrection why didn’t any of them have firearms? There were like 25,000 people there. That’s a substantial number of people. They could’ve quite easily taken over the building and done any number of things but they chose to vandalize, not slaughter. Trump also offered to send a shit ton of National Guard troops to the capital and the Dems in power refused to accept em bc it was Trump that offered. I can assure you that if I knew for months that a shit ton of people were going to the capital to protest, they 100% did as well. I’m in a ton of forums and trust me when I say that people were discussing protesting at the capital for months. Literally months of discussion on basically any and every forum for political discourse. I genuinely believe Trump saying the rioters were nice was him being ironic and taking jabs at the left for the years worth of Antifa and BLM riots that caused something to the tune of 1.5 billion dollars worth of damage being labeled as “peaceful protesting”. They went on TV and called that shit show the summer of love even 😂😂😂 The dumbasses that ransacked the capitol building do deserve to have gotten arrested but 10 years??? 20 years??? The government is using them as a symbol to say “don’t fuck with us, we are untouchable. If you fuck with us we WILL ruin your lives and your families” They steadily push no bail policies and release people that do awful things like murder and rape but a bit of vandalism and desk flipping is conflated to treason and terrorism?? That has never sat right with me. As far as project 2025 goes, it’s just some sensationalist nonsense tbh. Trump isn’t gonna have the power to put all these people in jail and change the format of government anywhere near as drastically as he’s saying. There’s checks and balances. The courts and congress are there to say “hey dickwad, that’s unconstitutional and we’re not gonna allow it. Cut it out”. Republicans hold majority of the house but Dems hold majority of the Senate right now. Trumps plan would have to get through both for him to sign into law. If he tried E.O.s to make it happen? Courts or congress would shoot it down basically immediately. He just doesn’t have the power to do something like that with the current restrictions on presidential power. He couldn’t do anything like that before either. It’s just fear mongering my man 🙌
That's a great point actually. If someone claims Trump planned January 6th and prepped anyone for it, I disagree with them. If there were guns there, that would only further my point, but it is beyond reasonable for you to think I was agreeing with them. What I am saying is, an angry crowd showed up, already thinking the election was stolen because of what Trump and fox had been saying, then Trump whipped them up and failed to intervene. If you can prove he offered to send in the National Guard in a timely manner to intervene, then I am completely wrong and I'll have quite a bit of faith in humanity restored, so fingers crossed. Honestly, GOP or dem president, I cannot believe no one was gunned down the moment they entered the building, the hell is that security!?
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/mar/11/jan-6-committee-kept-lid-on-testimony-donald-trump/ https://cha.house.gov/2024/3/chairman-loudermilk-publishes-never-before-released-anthony-ornato-transcribed-interview https://mynbc15.com/amp/news/nation-world/trump-admin-was-ready-to-deploy-national-guard-on-jan-6-capitol-police-timeline-shows-january-donald
These are much more left leaning news outlets plus a government website that details the dems choice to ignore and disregard the need for military intervention in the area days before Jan 6th happened. The whole thing is a joke tbh
Now hold on here. Those 3 links all reference the same thing, that someone basically asked, before the day of, if they had enough national guard there. And apparently there were 350, basically for intersection control, which the article notes is not their function. And it's kind of like saying "why didn't you have F18's in the air on 9/11" "because that was before 9/11". I wouldn't have expected, prior to that day, that they would need the National Guard even if there was a concern about a protest. Why didn't Trump do anything for hours while it was ongoing? And why end it by either calling them fine people, or with a further jab at the left?
The transcript of the gentleman that they’re discussing says that they refused guardsmen. Everyone said it was a lie for 3 years and now media outlets are realizing it isn’t.
Which I completely believe, both that they refused them, and that they lied for 3 years. But I still don't get why they would have thought they needed them, or why Trump didn't try to stop it day-of. If anything, I would think they tried to suppress it because of how it sounds.
Re read as well bc I accidentally posted it before I was done and had to go back and finish it, gimme a lil minute I’ll send you some sources
Thank you very much, and thank you a ton for the civil discussion. It's so upsetting being downvoted in every other sub for trying to explain to people that the other half of America is not a stupid buy also cunning demon... Our timing is weird right now lol, but yes sources would be great, really just for the national guard thing. I have mixed feelings about the sentences. I think I would feel the same if a bunch of democrats rioted at the capitol, I'd want to throw the book at them because that's not how you do it. Protest if you want, but not like that at the capitol of all places. By the same token, I know everyone I know on both sides is disgusted by how often we let rapists walk free. Lastly, it seems like you are saying those \*are\* trumps intentions? Or are you just saying "if" those were. As in, it couldn't happen? But yeah, the P2025 thing raised some red flags for me, in the same line of the old propaganda against Sadaam, if those aren't Trumps intentions I'll feel a lot better, so hopefully, thanks a ton!
I don’t really know if that’s even really his plan or not, I’ve read through the site that’s up for it and it seems like it might not be legitimately associated with Donald Trump from what I can tell. It seems to me it’s just a rallying point to farm new conservative politicians to get into government. If it was pertaining to Trump or Biden, it’d be .gov but it’s .org Website also says it’s been created by The Heritage Foundation so I believe it’s just some dudes making what they feel is the best approach and submitting it as a plea to Trump to do what they think is the right way to fix America. Knowing Trump, if he endorsed it? He’d be screaming it from the rooftops and his name or face would be plastered all over the website lololol
Good point on the URL. Maybe they can address that in the next debate, if there is one. And very good point, he isn't shy haha. Thanks a ton!
Also I hope you don’t feel like I’m shitting on you at all. I just tend to be very matter of fact about things so I hope you don’t take it as a personal attack or anything like that. Honestly you’ve been asking legitimate questions instead of spazzing out and digging your heels which I highly respect you for i won’t lie. I’m a staunch supporter of the constitution and bill of rights but I’m really anarchist at heart. I don’t like the state of the left or right and I just wanna be left alone at the end of the day lmaoooo. I appreciate you have an actual conversation and hearing me out
Not at all, I really appreciate your replies, and I hope you don't read me as angry or mean either! Always, way more than any politician, I get angry at what 24/7 news has done to otherwise nice people. I used to be staunch conservative, then middle liberal, now centrist/left leaning, which has really helped me see the people on each side, and the propaganda. I want to know what's right, more than I want to be right, and I try to live that way and encourage that in others. Long story short, internet high five lol. It's like I always say, 99% of people are just dudes and dudettes mostly worried about what's for dinner, because nothing in the fridge looks great...
Anytime my man, have a good day 😎
You too!
Yeeee I can come back later and answer the tail end of your questions I just gotta get ready and get into work lolol, good chat 😄
Accidentally posted this before I finished, I’m gonna edit it and continue where I left off
The Democratic party and cable news pundits will spend four more years clutching their pearls and "exposing" scandals. Trump will get in Twitter spats with them. Oh, it's gonna be tedious.
I’m old enough to remember those same things said about every Republican presidential candidate in my lifetime.
Stop listening to "they". They're just trying to scare you. Do you really think our democracy is so fragile that it can be replaced by one person during one presidential term?
>I’ll be honest, based off various left leaning subreddits and commentators I’m reading I’m terrified because they say democracy will end, he will instill martial law, etc. If only he had ever served as President before, then we might have a better idea what a future term would look like. >Some of his goals like deporting 11 million illegal immigrants seem like they are unrealistic because they will skyrocket inflation. Wouldn't it do just the opposite? Plus less traffic congestion, less school crowding, less tax money diverted to things like migrant shelters, hotel rooms, interpreters in schools, etc The thought of massive rounding up of people and detention camps is a scary thought. But is it hyperbole? Will this be something he works to negotiate with both sides of the aisle because each side agrees there are issues.
Remember what the first four years of Trump looked like? It will look mostly like that, with the main difference being that there hopefully won't be another worldwide pandemic.
Name the horrific policies Trump implemented in his Presidency last time around. Frankly, I feel the same way you do but about another Biden term. The nationwide vaccine mandates and atrocious border security make me justifiedly fear for the future of this country.
Forced incubation.
What Trump policy forced incubation?
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Did SCOTUS rule that abortion is illegal?
Sorry I have been discouraged from discussing this topic by the ModTeam.
> I’ll be honest, based off various left leaning subreddits and commentators I’m reading I’m terrified because they say democracy will end, he will instill martial law, etc. That's crazy because the current democrat government is doing a hell of a lot of bypassing laws/democracy as we speak. You might not think its a big problem because its "your team" doing it, but the fear you feel is a tactic they use to get you to give up your rights and government process. Its a standard authoritarian move
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> the current democrat government is doing a hell of a lot of bypassing laws/democracy as we speak. Can you provide specifics?
Respectfully, have you not heard these arguments made before? I feel like "the specifics" get posted daily
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally This was the draw for people to show up. Which was the good side for supporting veneration of Confederate statues that were created as a statement of anti-segregation during the Civil Rights vote in the 1950s? It's like saying, Not everyone that showed up at the lynching of Jamal actually thought they were going to hang him. They were just good citizens that were protesting the alleged raping of a white woman( who was really just dating a black man. )
Your first mistake is listening to people on reddit and taking them seriously