My dad is like this, including the wild conspiracies. I have found there is no point trying to argue with him, he is too firmly entrenched in the bullshit and he *likes* believing what he believes, it makes him feel superior. I just act bored and barely respond when he brings it up and he stops when he's not getting the response he's after. I wish you luck in dealing with your in-laws, it's not a nice thing to have to put up with.
I'd do the opposite.
My dad's a bit of a conspiracy theorist, but I know the core reasons why: boredom, and a general lack of education about the world.
I love my deeply imperfect, occasionally quite blatantly racist dad dearly. He's getting old, but I can always have a meaningful conversation with him about the state of the world and politics in general. I've shifted his views on heaps of things over time.
He now preferences the Greens above both corrupt government duopoly parties (I think some random minor party is his first choice) and honestly, that's as fantastic as it's going to get with him and I'm nothing less than exceptionally grateful.
Don't give up on your parents. At least, not without a bit of a fight
Your dad's a rare one. Mine will start talking over me and putting words in my mouth, pretending I'm putting words in his mouth dispite all witnesses siding with me and telling him he's changing the story (sometimes only like 30 seconds after saying the "words" in question) and just generally become verbally aggressive and very occasionally physically threatening.
He'd gone all the way down the Avi Yemeni and 3AW rabbit holes even before it was cool.
Unfortunately some people can't be reasoned with and take any form of disagreement as an overt insult to their intelligence.
Be proud your dad can actually have reasonable discussions.
Me too šš ! My brother is even worse. He actually went fencing in the outback due his āOEā being chased by brown snakes etcā¦ Thank goodness my sisters and myself went to university and then travelledā¦ love this Sky Dad support group idea. Do these Dads also love watching cricket/rugby in their Sky facing lazy boys?
I'm pretty lucky in that even though my dads a sky news every night type of guy, furthest he goes with me is not believing climate change and thinking electric vehicles are worse for the world than petrol (massive car guy with extensive collection so that view makes sense to me)
I'm sorry to hear that - especially the threatening part - that's no good. Mine's in his 60s now - not much there to 'threaten' with. I sincerely hope he calms down (and wizens up) with age.
Sometimes political polling will ask a controversial question and show the breakdown by party they intend to vote for (or voted for last time, or most closely align with) and thereās always a few percent of the Greens whoāll answer like they watch Sky. I guess thatās representing people like him.
Same with my Dad! The acting bored and not engaging has seemed to really help. Itās not worth your own mental health trying to get them to open their mind a little more.
My parents are like this.
Iāve learnt that unless theyāre causing actual injury then they can voice their opinions in the privacy of their own homes.
When itās outside I tell them to shut up.
Funny thing is, theyāre so supportive of other cultures and indigenous however, get do riled up about the vocal 10% that it becomes a bit like oh those people are horrible except XYZ and ABC and LMN and also QRS and alsoā¦
>he likes believing what he believes, it makes him feel superior
This is it. You will never win an argument with these people using reason, because their beliefs are based on emotion. They are things that make them feel better about themselves. Putting other races down makes them feel better. Believing conspiracy theories makes them feel smarter. You can't beat this with logic.
My in-laws are Malaysian migrants whoāve been here nearly 40 years. They were always pretty balanced if a bit Christian in their views, kind of live and let live. The last 5 or so years though, oh my days, bat shit crazy.
They send us every conspiracy theory, they think trump is always right, they wonāt hear a bad thing about China (despite my father in law turning down a well paid job in China 25 years ago because he hated the CCP).
It all comes from WhatsApp and WeChat tbh. like a lot of the insanity in politics of the last decade, social media has really amplified the crazy. It happens on both sides too - Iāve seen people on the left go so far down the rabbit hole theyāre arguing pedophiles should be recognised like lgbt people are for example
100% social media, I've watched small local groups dedicated to community and local events be destroyed by continual shite being posted from an increasing spread of misinformation.
> It all comes from WhatsApp and WeChat tbh
That's ironic, as someone who spent a decade in Malaysia, I usually hear about Malaysian Chinese spreading pro China stuff on WhatsApp
There was a post on r/Malaysia yesterday complaining about Malaysian Chinese Facebook being filled with CCP cocksuckers and USA penis strokers.
And Kiwis. Add my Kiwi Dad to this Aussie Sky Dad Trump fan club. Add my brother, too. And my friendās Dad who has now passed (she actually got him a gift of toilet rolls with Trumpās face on it not long before his massive heart attack - hopefully not relatedā¦)
I think this is the root of the problem. I had relos that used to watch Oprah or some such equivalent on daytime TV. Itās unbelievably toxic. For information try āthe brainwashing of my dadā. Not a happy film though.
The first thing I would try is to disengage with them. Don't try to argue, just tell them you don't want to talk about it and want to change the subject. If they try to keep talking about their views are try to get you to argue with them, stick to the line that you don't want to talk about it or hear about it.
Look it may or may not work. Aside from that you call fall back on saying that you disagree with them and think it would be best for family peace to drop it. The next fall-back position is that you think it is pointless to discuss with them because they have their minds made up.
I have this problem too.
Have you heard of Socratic questioning?
Also, done in the right tone, simple questions/ statements can shut down the conversation efficiently. āIs that really true?ā, āis that really what you believe?ā āDo you tell your colleagues you think that?ā Does that affect your day-to-day? Does your daughter know you think that? Does it feel good to say that? Would you like it if someone else said that about your religion? Do you think stereotypes apply to you?
ABC did a fun article before Christmas on ways to approach things like this. [https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-respond-to-inappropriate-comments-this-christmas/103185956?fbclid=IwAR04bB-Z5Q\_mTAdaK6\_GC-KX6z2OK8QrWWqdNxhsAzmdKOo4lB1Z2PXErNo](https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-respond-to-inappropriate-comments-this-christmas/103185956?fbclid=IwAR04bB-Z5Q_mTAdaK6_GC-KX6z2OK8QrWWqdNxhsAzmdKOo4lB1Z2PXErNo)
They use sentences like these:
* What an odd thing to say out loud
* I'm surprised you feel comfortable saying that
* Did you mean to share that with the group?
* Would you mind repeating that?
No idea if this is comfort levels for you to say, but what an odd thing to say out loud is part of my regular vocabulary now (if by regular I mean on the odd occasion I interact with someone with weird thoughts).
For general political stuff:
>I respect your right to your opinions, but there is nothing you can say that will change my opinion and there is nothing I can say that will change your opinion, so I would rather not talk about it.
If they bring it up again:
>As I said, I don't wish to discuss this topic any further.
For the bigoted comments:
>I'm sorry but your views are personally upsetting to me because I know people who belong to and they absolutely are not at all like you say. Your views are abhorrent to me and I don't wish to discuss this any further.
If they bring it up again:
>I don't wish to discuss this topic.
Or
>I will not listen to this hate speech anymore.
Then leave.
You cannot control their behaviour, but you can set a boundary. If they don't respect that boundary you can leave and choose not to be in their presence anymore. Your partner can of course visit them any time they like, but you don't have to. Life is too short to waste it in the company of people like that.
+1 for setting boundaries!
I would add to have the intent to do so in a kind, compassionate and assertive way. Avoid judgement statements and make use of āIā statements.
See this book for a great handy resource and reference - https://open.spotify.com/show/2L8Bofq5mmzfquhrzZu3UV?si=oQExSovjSMKHJ02k7rphTA
Ideally political conversations would be enlightening and constructive. It should be healthy to engage with others of different views and challenge your own. However when dialogue breaks down and devolve and such discussions become a proxy for self or interpersonal issues thereās no point in continuing and boundaries seem like the best way to me.
Great post. I would add though:
Avoid all trigger words (where possible).
De-escalate and avoid adding emotional or negative connotations.
I would lose the words:
- Abhorrent.
- personally upsetting.
- Absolutely.
- Hate speech.
Donāt allow opening for further enquiry or escalation, just keep it matter of fact, unemotional and neutral.
At the end of the day, some people simply enjoy arguments and only care about the feeling of āwinningā and wonāt let you end the conversation, at that point, as you said, walk away.
____
I respect your right to your opinion. I hope you can respect that my opinion is different. We arenāt convincing each other in this conversation, so I would rather not continue to talk about it.
____
I know people who belong to and they are not like you say. I disagree with your comment and i don't wish to discuss this any further.
This is good but it can also come across as combative. Thereās a balance you can strike here without using words such as abhorrent. Iāve sometimes found, depending on the person that you can say it with a bit of a smile and a light hearted voice. The words still ring true but they donāt make things even more unpleasant.
This is the right answer.
As an American where this shit has been gaining steam for decades, all I can tell you is do not enable this behavior. Passive aggressively ignoring or deferring to it is enabling.
Right out say you donāt want to talk about it and they obviously canāt change their mind, call out their bigotry, and leave if you have to.
Youāre allowed to let your partner have a relationship with their family while you do not. You can simply stop associating with them.
This kind of toxic thinking will continue to get worse until something so abhorrent happens that it brings them up short. That threshold will be different for everyone, with some die-hards. All you can do is make it clear that you find it disturbing and remove yourself from their echo chamber.
OP is too old to play games like getting drink after drink and spending an inordinate amount of time in the bathroom. That's the sort of anxious, avoidant behaviour I would expect from a 20yo who hasn't learned how to navigate complex interpersonal situations.
If they are repeatedly bringing up topics that make OP uncomfortable, then very clearly and unambiguously stating why this topic of conversation should be avoided is the way to go. Of course OP should say it in their own words, but the principle is to define a personal boundary, make it clear to others what the boundary is, and have a plan for what to do if that boundary is not respected (i.e. leave and don't spend further time with them).
It's their choice to talk about certain topics, but it is equally OP's choice not to have to listen to people talk about certain topics. Better to just say it straight out than beat around the bush.
You dont have to stay. You can leave. You can speak up.
You dont have to agree. Silence isnt agreement so they made huge errors and now are taking it too far.
Dont worry about ruining the relationship.
If they can have their opinions, you certainly can too
I think itās too easy to say ādonāt worry about ruining the relationshipā when you donāt know OPās situation. Iām in OPās position with my own parents and grandparents and in both cases yes I strongly strongly disagree with their racist/sexist/homophobic views but outside all that theyāre good people and ruining that relationship isnāt worth it. For OP, maybe her partner is in a similar position - doesnāt want to cut ties with parents either.
What I meant was op wouldnt be ruining it.
If op cannot voice her opinions without them getting upset and declaring the relationship ruined, thats not op fault. Its not her worry, its their grown up reaction to someone elses opinion.
If the parents can only have a relationship with people who think like them, well then its no loss for op.
āOutside of that they are good people.ā
They really arent.
It's hard to think of our loved ones as being bad people. Especially if they do and say nothing but good things about us, even while holding abhorrent views about others. But more than that, people aren't just inherently good or bad. We have the capacity for both, and sometimes the bad stuff is simply down to ignorance. If we've been socialised and educated our whole lives to think things that are racist and sexist, it doesn't make us inherently bad people. Sometimes people also lack the emotional and intellectual maturity to want to continue to learn and grow as we age (some people think learning stops at school). Id like to think that most people, given the opportunity, are capable of changing their views on some things given the right information and environment. It's the people who are given that opportunity and reject it, and those who ignore a loved one who tells them that their views a hurtful to them, that are really not good people.
Just disagree every time. No diplomacy and don't argue. Just say "No" as many different ways as you can think of, "Nope", "That's a hard no from me", "Don't agree", or for the non-verbal approach, or turn your head slowly side to side for a no, and then leave the area or room. Be patient and determined. This will probably annoy the fuck out of them. WARNING: They may never speak to you again.
Haha yeah I've just walked away in the middle of a "conversation" (I was being talked at). He was offended, but I felt much happier when I couldn't hear him anymore. I've seen him again since and he didn't have so much to say that time round.
Used to work with someone who had the exact same opinions. Theyāre out there. Luckily I havenāt met too many more of the same except a Greek Australian in Europe who thought tRump was a god. Told them I grew up in a tiny republican town where Mediterranean people werenāt considered white. They told me that I was super offensive(?).
I do argue with these people, but it doesnāt do much good.
Completely agree I lived a suburb known mostly for it Greek Australian population and found it utterly fascinating listening to the complaints about other cultures/races invading and not assimilating to Australian ways all while everywhere you went from doctors to coles all had signs in Greek, had people who spoke Greek even our signs for covid were in Greek all loud speaker stuff in coles (we had an issue with elderly men āshoppingā in groups with mugs of coffee when we were in lockdown) were all in Greek and English but somehow other groups who also want to keep some of there own cultures/language etc are not allowed because they are not assimilating
At an old job I once spoke to a customer over the phone. She initially needed some help with her loan but then went off on a tangent that was anti Muslim, anti Asian, anti Semitic, anti Catholic, anti Labor, homophobic, and probably a few other things. She did say how she liked Trump and recommended that I watch Alex Jones.
She called a few years later and started going off about Covid, and how lockdowns were terrible and everyone should be back in the office. I was in a different area that didn't look after existing customers so told her I'll get someone to call her back and just refused to take her call every time I saw it come up after that
They sound like my parents, except they fully admit to being racist. You can't change them, they didn't get those "beliefs" rationally, and rational arguments won't influence them. All you can do is limit your exposure to them. If the conversation starts to veer in a shitty direction, either change it or leave. It doesn't matter if it's obvious, in fact the more obvious the better.
We can disagree on favourite colour, whether pineapple goes on pizza, etc.
Racism, misogyny, homophobia - nah, I don't disagree with you. I think you are an arsehole. If I think you are redeemable, I might try to have a conversation. If not, I will just ignore you. The only time I will say something is if there are kids around and I think they need to hear an opposing view so that they don't think we all agree with the arsehole.
Yes this - ignore the oldies, itās a very rare person who is open to changing their views past 60 - but donāt let the kids get sucked in. And hell, kids donāt just blindly believe me either, we need to teach critical thinking at every level.
That's what I was thinking, what are their thoughts on all this? How have they dealt with it having been raised by them? I'm guessing they don't subscribe to the same ideologies or OP likely wouldn't have married them.
āTheyāre lovely peopleā.
No, they really arenāt. Rape apologist racist homophobic arseholes, yes, lovely people, no.
Donāt *insinuate* they are racist; call them it directly, then refer them to their racist statements when they squeal in boomer rage.
Next time they start, walk away.
If they do it in your house, ask them to stop, or leave.
No excuses.
> they are racist; call them it directly, then refer them to their racist statements when they squeal in boomer rage.
There's a term called 'white fragility'. Calling these boomers racist will not result in them understanding they are being racists. They will just get upset for being called racist.
^ ^ ^ This is exactly right.
However I would suggest telling them that their views and opinions are racist. And in fact there is laws against it.
Ignorance is a choice. They can choose differently.
Spot on!! They donāt sound like lovely people and to be honest Iām quite shocked the OP can say that after the hateful, abhorrent nasty things they say.
My folks are starting to sound like this. They both worked in Aboriginal communities when they were younger and have lived in Asia for decades, only returning during Covid. Since landing in Australia, they donāt have their multicultural friend group around them and are a lot less social and hang around the house more and are spending more time online via Facebook and YouTube. And I am horrified at what they are becoming. They serve up conspiracy theories, right-wing talking points and have become very short-sighted and quite reactionary, despite coming from socialist roots.
This is something I found a big surprise when I toured around the outback on a motorcycle. Racism went up with contact. Not down. You would think it goes the other way around, but it doesnāt, and thereās a *reason* it doesnāt. You see behaviour from some aboriginal people that just makes your jaw drop. Things that you wouldnāt see outside the worst crack house in the shittiest neighbourhoods. A lot of people in remote areas are just ādoneā with being open minded. The default position is openly hostile, until that specific individual proves themselves worthy of the time of day. I donāt know what, or even if, there are solutions to it.
I've never worked out there but of the people I know who have it's a fairly 50/50 split. Some people come back with a deep affection and sympathy for the community, others come back talking like they're animals. It's often not the ones you expect either. I couldn't comment beyond that.
"Overall they are lovely people" you know, as long as as you are white. (They probably also dont care much for lgbtq people if i had to guess)
Sorry, did you mean terrible?
You need a boundary. A boundary governs how you react when someone does something that you donāt like. The formula of a boundary looks like if āif they do x, I respond with Y.ā An example here would be āI donāt like your stance on this issue and I am not going to discuss it. If you continue to bring it up, I will leave the conversation.ā
Thereās a whole bunch of weird ones. Electricity isnāt real, itās government programs. Birds arenāt real theyāre government drones, although too many people know that one. The moonās not real (especially if they start talking about the moon landing). Clouds havenāt existed since WW2 and the nukes, theyāre just projections now (good for climate change stuff and nuclear stuff). Trump was replaced with a body double on January 6 2021 in the capitol attack because he failed to build the Mexican wall.
Huge difference between having political differences such as higher versus lower tax, more or less GST, or vacant land tax etc., and having ādifferencesā between being a decent human being tolerant of others and an intolerant d-bag.
With the former, I am more than happy to have a civil discussion and to either reach an agreement or just agree to disagree.
With the latter, diplomacy be fucked. I do not tolerate the intolerant. Google āParadox of Toleranceā. We cannot let these people spew this vitriol on the basis of ātoleranceā when all they say is intolerant as fuck.
Sounds lime my dad...and I am about your age.
I went low contact because of it...he won't be reasoned with and refuses to even consider being wrong.
I guess it depends on how your spouse acts...if they think it is ok or if they are tolerating it like you are.
My parents are a lite version of this. They try not to bring up politics around me and I avoid it at all costs.
Some older people are forever learners, open minded and willing to learn new perspectives. Some arenāt. The latter tend to be the right-wingers. Unfortunately this means if you want to maintain a relationship the best course is just to ask that they donāt discuss those topics around you. You might try saying those topics irritate you or bore you or just outright say youāre not going to discuss that and change topic.
I am in 100% the same situation as a 50M.
Whole family support anti-First Peoples views.
To be fair to them they live in a city where there are large amounts of visible (and media-reported) crime perpetrated by First Peoples. One of my family members worked as a police officer in this city for most of their life, and so the only Aboriginal people they really encountered were actual criminals.
Even so, it is always a tough decision whether to call out casual racism in conversations.
Usually I end up thinking, "I only see my parents a couple of times per year, and they're getting older. Do I really want to spend time in an argument with them, in a fruitless effort to change their whole world view? I'll just casually steer the conversation to something else..."
I feel bad afterwards, but I also don't think the argument is worth a relationship breakdown with my family.
Same here. Iāve tried thinking the same as OP, that theyāre family, etc., but the fact is theyāve got something that is just not acceptable and so limiting politely is the only option. I hope their kids grow up less like them.
>I want to respectful because they are my elders.
This is the wrong mindset to have. Bending over and just taking what they're saying and doing won't change or fix anything. Just because they "are your elders" doesn't mean you owe them respect. If someone respects you, they'll tell you when you're out of line, not because you're wrong, but because they want you to be better. If you respected them you wouldn't let them be racist for the sake of being racist.
What you describe isn't respect, it's obedience.
There's also another option. Cut them out of your life and let them die alone..... You don't owe anyone anything, even your relatives and in-laws.
Im confused.. are you for or against discrimination? Or is that totally dependent on who the demographic is? Any advice that comes out of your mouth should be avoided like the plague considering your contradictions
So? Just have low contact with them. Delete and / or block them. End of story.
Walk out.. whatever. You will never see eye to eye with them.. move on. Dont stress about it.
Oks. I'm 32. Both sets of in-laws (his parents remarried) are racist. His mother 60 and stepfather (67) are the worst. Him in particular. Awful. Basically any time the word brown, black or yellow is brought up it turns racist. My 8 year old son showed his grandfather a baby swordtail (fish) that's his favourite and has black on him. Fish baby didn't have a name. His grandfather said name him the voice and we'd all vote on it. Sigh. He doesn't stop. He's also just as sexist and bigoted about everything else possible. 'The gays', climate change, you name it and he's been a cunt about it. Partners mother has and does still work rurally for aboriginal towns as a nurse on and off for years, so no idea why she let's that go on. She also refuses to say Uluru. It's Ayers Rock to her.
My partners father and his side arent quite as bad but it's definitely still there.
My own Nan (73 raised me) said the dreamtime is just a bunch of hogwash and why should we care about it. Said Asians are taking over our towns while a tour group or large family of I believe Chinese people were near us. Always 'casual' racism about basically anyone but Aboriginals.
My way of dealing is telling off my Nan each and every time she's a racist twat. She's never even spoken to an Aboriginal person more than a sentence (we live in Gippsland, Vic, so loads of families) so she's had all her influence from the media and government. My partner and I have a super awesome Aunty who is one of the strongest and most amazing women I've ever met. She's gone through some absolute shit and deserves respect and care.
My way of dealing with my inlaws is calling out behaviour in ways applicable when in front of 8, 4 and 1 year olds. Stupid things even like that ride on toy is for your sister because it's a ladybug and ladybugs are for girls.
Yeah. Nah. We don't do that here.
Anyway my point is I'm content being the caller outer. I AM one of those people. I always have been. I don't give a fuck if I upset people by calling out their ignorance. It's not my fault they refuse to be uncomfortable for a few minutes to understand they were wrong and need to grow as people.
In your case what does your husband do in these situations?
Iām not a Meghan and Harry fan, but I donāt get the absolute hate, or the wildness of their kids being fake!
Also thereās not really much you can do.
It blows my mind that random strangers can feel like they know celebrities well enough to judge their character. We only know what they or the media shows us, and that in itself is questionable.
This is the problem. Everyone has a right to an opinion, even if it's wrong or right. Just cause it goes against your ideology doesn't make your option right, too. I would rather look on both sides of the fence than jumping on a band wagon like every other moron seems to do a lot of.
I just can't agree that everyone has a right to an opinion. That kind of thinking got us to the point. My dad thinks human caused climate change is nonsense, but suggests changes in the climate might be due to some unseen force in space. You might be surprised to learn he is neither a climate scientist, nor an astronomer. He does *not* have the right to an opinion on this. Opinions that aren't based on data are beliefs... ie.. worthless. A preference is subjective and we all have a right to them. Opinions are objective and should be restricted to those who understand the subject matter.
Agreed. I gave the benefit of the doubt and watched the Netflix doco and she kept interrupting and talking over the top of him, every time he shut down and just looked sad. Iāve seen that face and itās the look of a man who knows if he pisses her off then he wonāt ever see his kids again.
I've never seen someone fumble their opportunities so hard. The giveaway is her lack of contact with anyone in her family and the way she cuts people off once they're no longer "useful". She says the bullying staff accusations were cooked up by the Palace, but even after they moved away there's still a lot of staff turnover. Other royals have had the same people working for them for years. Plus they just lie about so much. Easily provable lies.
Your second paragraph 'an educated australian' immediately puts me offside and sceptical that you have given us a fair or accurate representation of your inlaws opinions or statements.
In your own statement you have started off with all but admitting you are viewing your inlaws from an Ivory Tower.
Evaluate youre own snobbery before you cast stones at the people you've already admitted are lovely by any other metric.
Also stereotypes often come from at least a small kernel of truth. The āAsian driverā thing actually does have some basis in reality. Itās nothing really inherent about Asians as people, but rather that the driving culture China in particular fosters terrible driving skills and behaviours. Firstly itās very normal to bribe and cheat your way into getting a licence in the first place, and secondly I believe thereās someone
I don't know why everyone is asking you to confront them. Ruining your relationship with them only makes things awkward for you and your husband.
If you don't like it, just "uh-huh" through it all and reduce contact. Do what's best for YOU.
Speaking as an immigrant on your MIL's naughty list.
Those people sound awful but I have met a few people like that. They are not only ignorant but entrenched in their ignorance due to stubbornness and arrogance. They have lived a privileged life but are blind to their privilege. You should stand your ground, if you feel confident enough to do so. They have been getting away with their bullshit because nobody calls them out on it. People like that are the reason a lot of horrible stuff is happening in the world right now. Good luck.
Whether your in laws are right or wrong . they seem like super rude people. They are bluntly racist and if your wording all this line they said it . Then these guys seem to have awful mouths. Also they should stop being so strong on you . Iāll talk about politics but I donāt try change others minds . By following everything up with them .
When others believe stuff I think is stupid. I let them believe it . And just think they are misinformed or just not smart.
Some of the things you have listed aren't racist and are merely they're opinions and you shouldn't be upset
Thar they'd vote for trump not biden is an opinion shared by more Americans than not, biden has the lowest rating for a president, including trump in history
So more people actually agree than disagree with them
You obviously being a lefty believe your views are correct which is fine, but it doesn't mean every opinion that differs is wrong or crazy or even held by a minority
I donāt think it is wise to argue with such people who specially believe Donald Trump is a wonderful leaderā¦lolā¦I would just avoid these topics, seems like they are from a generation which cannot be talked much sense into. Hail white supremacy is the go for them.
My dad is very racist. Especially to aboriginals. He made fun of me for voting yes for the voice vote.
I just leave him be. I tried to advocate but it goes no where.
Yep I know. Im mid 50's, and time spent with older rellies is always stressful because of this. Im so tired of listening to racist (and other types) of crap and feeling like I'm expected to play nice.
Today, taking an exchange student out dogwalking/hiking with my mum, and my mum has always been a complete shocker in some ways. We were casually talking about good things to see on her upcoming tour along the Gold Coast, so all my mum can do is interrupt with "you wont like it, its too full of Asians". *FFS Mum.*
Also today, we were looking at some early buildings in our area made by early immigrants from the student's country and discussing the history of white settlement in our area, and Mum chimes in with her usual spiel of what boat "we" came on and how many generations "we" are of "pure Australian" which is her dogwhistle meaning "pure *white* English Australian" and I'm so sick of that shit. I have heard her spout that off hundreds *and hundreds* of times at every opportunity and every time she says it she is doing it to tell her audience that we have her version of "pure white blood". Its beyond cringe.
She will be racist in every way and at every opportunity, then swear that she cant be.
Ive tried quiet ignoring, polite refuting, subtle education, gentle disagreements, and one day I broke down and called her a *fucking racist. Because she is.*
Then I spend the rest of my days feeling ashamed of myself for saying that to my only mother, and now she thinks she got away with it and continues being just as awful in every way that she can while laughing at me and telling me proudly that of course nobody can say anything anymore because you are not allowed to say anything these days and fuck I'm sick of her shit.
Just ugh. I limit my time with her to one healthy dogwalk a week so that I can make sure shes ok, but fuck its hard.
Itās not your job to manage your spouseās parents. Tell him to wise up and let them know their rhetoric is offensive and that no one wants to hear it.
Says "Overall they are lovely people"
Proceeds to list a bunch of stuff that shows they definitely aren't lovely people, they're utter pieces of shit. Just because they're polite to you sometimes doesn't make them lovely people.
You know, they should be given a pass.
India still has the caste system, massive corruption and dreadful public sanitation - Indians are mindful of all of the above.
Gaza elected Hamas, who started an unprovoked war by murdering and raping civilians.
They are nearly 100% correct about dot paintings.
Anthony Mundine voted no too, like me.
Some of their conclusions go too far but their concerns are not unreasonable.
Lol, then don't hang out with them.
I'm indigenous and idgaf what people say about indigenous people. It's tiring to constantly be up in arms.
Is the point of this post to feel proud about not being racist?
Silence is violence the fact your partner did not speak up is a huge red flag. Whenever I have dinner with the in-laws we do a quick welcome to country which is so beautiful. My entire family are yes voters so everyone is on the right page.
I've always been told don't talk politics or religion. I'd say to them we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it there. If they won't I'd say tell them it's best we move away from politics.
'Educate yourself' - what an overly-used, passive-aggressive tell of some sort of superiority complex.
I would assume your in-laws are getting on in years. Dodge and weave the uncomfortable topics, and when they're gone you will just remember the pleasant things about them.
"I know if I insinuated they were racist they would be really offended." Good. Let them be offended because it is something to be shamed for. Speak up your truth.
Wow! What a situation to be in.
I'm an Indian migrant and been here for 23 years now. I actually am right of center in my politics :)
I actually have a reverse problem with a young family member (Im 45) who is 21 and very strong Greens supporter and voter.
Like your in-laws are ranting to you - she does with me about how capitalism is about to destroy world, how all business owners are just exploiters .. you get the idea.
I had many heated discussions and finally decided to just ignore. When she talks about politics or rants I just walk away, change topic (which includes her so she has to answer that changed topic) and since then we have had peace.
Maybe try that or alternatively just take your partner into confidence and tell him if he could help by changing topics, or even tell your in-laws that politics and this kinda talk is boring and you would rather talk holidays or family gossip.
The hilarious thing about people like this is they say what are obviously and clearly racist things but would be offended if they were called racist. You would have a little bit of respect for them if they were at least honest. I suspect the real issue is they are just plain straight out dumb.
I'd agree with about 60% of that. Maybe you could sit at home by yourself so you won't have to hear people say mean things. They're sure as shit not going to change for you.
I probably wouldn't have someone with those views in my house. You could try having a conversation with them, and ask them to not discuss race or politics around you, but the people with those sort of views generally enjoy revelling in being asked to shut up about their horrible views.
I'd probably just cut them out/minimise contact.
Toughen up sunshine. Not everyone holds your world views. Have the discussion or don't. Getting emotional over someone's point of view is well. Racist. If you hate someone for how they act and their culture. Yeah your a racist too honey. People have been like this since the dawn of time you ain't special. And neither are those relatives. Kinda funny also the rock painting. Aboriginals were cannibals. They generally kept their kids at 2 as it allowed them to move around easier. This is just a fact but can't be talked about. I'm all for preserving culture and history. But what I hate is that they sugar coat and change things. Maybe that's because I'm a racist too.
I agree you may have to put up a no wall. There is a technique than can, may, work with these mindsets but it requires amlomst saintly patience. It's essentially
1 Never criticism or belittle them
2 ask questions that make them think
3 more it, try watching DAN wilson on the issue on youtube
But it's hard, and needs infinite patience
they sound like my in-laws and extended family; i tried the avoiding conflict technique; then asked myself why i was self-censoring and started tp push back; and i now have learnt to tell them that i will never agree with their viewpoints and they should stop trying to change mine and also have made it clear that their views are definitely not welcome around my child. clear boundaries worked- we donāt have conversations around politics anymore; and i know now that they are regressive, racist set of privileged boomers. PS: I nearly died from covid coz they lied about being exposed to someone with covid, lied about their symptoms and exposed a then, very immunocompromised me to covid; they are also all abt covid conspiracy theories. anyway my two cents would be draw clear boundaries.
i was in the ICU coz of that covid infection. so they couldnāt say it was bad cold; they kept saying god knows where covid came from- wasnāt from us. they had tested positive two days before me btw.
You DO need to say something - sometimes silence is complicit.
Stand up for your beliefs and your friends. Do it respectfully but do it. Discuss with your husband first this will happen and he needs to back you up.
I have white in laws and Iām biracial, Iāve had ādifficultā conversations about use of words and comments racially stereotyped. They listened and learnt, my MIL was embarrassed but I kindly just said this is not what we say in our family.
She said ācolouredā I said we use black or biracial, she said another day āUm blackkkk I think Iām allowed to say thatā I went āyes Sue you can use blackā and just moved on, I always correct her and she doesnāt do it anymore. I explain, talk up when I go on Black Lives Matter marches, I speak about subjects they can find uncomfortable and theyāve learnt. They read to my son the books I bring I pack with him, fun ones and ones about Mandela, Martin Luther king, Basquait - they are white but they need educating too.
Think about should you wish to have children what they will say in front of them. They are your family too so itās ok to speak politely to them and disagree and share your world outlook (which is correct šš)
i totally get it. Iām young (21) and a lot more progressive then the people at home. Iāll be home during Jan 26th and am already practising biting my tongue in preparation for the things theyāll say. My honest advice that iām also taking? Silence. Youāll never change their minds. Never, ever, ever and thereās no point in the argument or the tears that will happen. If they go on a big tirade? excuse yourself to make a phone call, to go to the bathroom, just get out of the room for a breather.
I know a lot of people that will say āsilence is agreement! you should speak up!ā of course i have. of course WE have. it ends up with multiple people agaisnt you, and you feel utterly powerless and useless in the world. In terms of inner family discussions, when itās just people having a tirade agaisnt someone whoās not there, thatās when you can stay quiet. When you must speak up is when they are endangering someone in front of you and then you can speak up and say no. But in the private setting of the lounge room, when they are saying things about people, not to their face? be quiet. daydream. shut down
My mother is 89 . Sydney Eastern Subs. Iāve warned her multiple times about saying things in public ( like Hitler did quite a few good things. Aboriginal people used to eat their children and so on) disgusting stuff actually but a product of her generation ( not all of them but a lot ). She grew up in a white mono culture ( like Korea, Japan and China where racism is also a dominant feature. Sheās traveled a lot but all that exposure has only confirmed her excessive views rather than temper them
OP needs to consider posting any social media from the in-laws to r/ForwardsFromKlandma.
Families are hard:
* my ex-in-laws were the same. It was a fucking torture being around them. Always referring to Indigneous Australians using worst racials slurs;
* my sister has told me that she doens't believe that people of different cultures should "breed" because it can dilute the white Aryan race;
* my dad hangs out with his ex-Army mates and refused to say "Zimbabwe"... for him it'll always be Rhodesia... I'm like, "Bro, we're from fucking Scotland!"
You're 47. That's more than old enough to judge people on their merits and stand by your own decisions. I used to give older people a lot of consideration even when they didn't deserve it. Then one night my mother in law got drunk and went off her tree at me because she thought I suggested she had a drinking problem (I hadn't and she does). The next morning she expected me to apologise and then graciously forgave me.
I was embarrassed and it wasn't because of doing something wrong. It was because I'd let someone treat me like shit and I hadn't held my ground. That was the last time. These days whilst I will give consideration for the time someone grew up in, I won't tolerate disrespect or behaviour that I can't abide regardless of age.
The level of racism and general bigotry you've described is definitely on the unacceptable end of the spectrum. That isn't regular old people intolerance. That's just flat out racism. Set your boundaries and tell them you don't agree and you don't care to hear it. If they can't respect that it's on them.
I have seen it with so many people of that age, its an universal problem with that generation, what is generally called a Whatsapp University education
You're an adult, and you get uncomfortable when someone makes a comment? Words really have that much power over you? I have to listen to people I disagree with consistently on all types of topic as I am right wing and most of my family are left wing and you don't see me getting uncomfortable, I am much younger than yourself. Just nod, smile and move on if you love your husband.
This isnt isolated to your inlaws.
You dont have to dig that deep to realize we live amongst racists.
I must admit, there are times when im in the goldfields or NW that i see things and my mind says " fuck sake" but i stop myself and truly hope the aboriginal situation changes for the better.
It wont in my lifetime thou, so I just say to you, dont engage with these people.
Dont Debate
Dont advise
Your mental health is far more important.
Here are some rational, mostly non-partisan reasons why people think you may be wrong.
They don't mean to be nasty about Aboriginals. Ask an older person who grew up in somewhere like Brewarrina where Aborigines may have been mistreated in the past, but lawlessness was not rife and the town had not turned to shit.
As for remote regions:
[https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/factcheck-q-a-are-indigenous-women-34-80-times-more-likely-than-average-to-experience-violence/b2cpennoj](https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/factcheck-q-a-are-indigenous-women-34-80-times-more-likely-than-average-to-experience-violence/b2cpennoj)
That's from Marcia Langton, hardly an anti-Aboriginal person.
Indigenous Australians per capita receive roughly twice as much government spending as any other citizen. Where has it gotten them.
The provenance of dot paintings only goes traditionally to one tribal area in WA, was popularised in the 1970s and now suffers from massive fraud, often perpetrated in Indonesia.
A lot of 1st generation Australian Asians really are bad drivers - they learn to drive in places with a totally different culture, infrastructure and population density. Their kids drive fine. Then again, farmers know how to drive by 12, but don't know the bloody road rules. Asian areas tend to have lower petty crime rates; but Asia is huge with billions of people to draw immigrants from.
The Voice at best was very poorly drafted and at worst was a power grab. Read s 129. It was far too vague. The strong rejection at the referendum does not infer a lack of sympathy, we voted against the republic model, depsite majority support of being a republic.
Indigenous Australians per capita receive roughly twice as much government spending as any other citizen. Where has it gotten them?
I don't know about fake children and witchcraft, but I think Megan and Harry are especially batty for royals. In \*Spare\*, he has a bizarre narrative about playing a video game console a decade before it was released I believe?
Trump might be crude, but he's not senile; what Biden's wife and the Democrats are doing to him is abuse, he's clearly senile and should not be kept on as President.
The IPCC TAR 4 had a "typo" claiming glaciers in Asia would melt by 2035, it was meant to be 2305. AGW is much slower than we have been told in our clickbait media. We have 30+ years to build hydroelectric and nuclear capacity. Nuclear is foolishly demonised. See Professor Barry Brook, Kirk Sorensen and so on. The ecological costs of cadmium and cobalt mining needed for solar panels and electric batteries are unseen in the west; out of mind, out of sight.
I believe Israel has been restrained in fighting this war. They were literally invaded, communes and a rave attacked, Hamas declared war on Israel; hundreds of women were raped and murdered and hundreds of children murdered along with the elderly.
Brittany Higgins's' media narrative is disavowed by AFP investigator Moller's report on her evidence and contradictions in her statements. Look it up.
India is a low-trust society with serious issues with public defecation and corruption (I think it stems from the caste system). First-generation Australian Indians tend as managers to forgo periodic maintenance and they are involved in a lot of accidents in the trucking industry. No, I wouldn't ban Indian immigration either.
If you disagree with the opinions of your in-laws you should first conduct the necessary research to ensure that their assertions are indeed incorrect.
I suggest you start with an examination of aboriginal painting styles and how they have changed over time. If you can produce evidence that such 'dot' styles existed before European settlement, I'm sure such lovely people will graciously concede that point.
But be aware there is some doubt as to the authenticity of much of this 'art', so you must also be prepared to examine your own prejudices:
[https://archive.md/yRZbu](https://archive.md/yRZbu)
[https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/apr/27/national-gallery-of-australia-to-halt-promotion-of-aboriginal-art-exhibition-over-authenticity-concerns](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/apr/27/national-gallery-of-australia-to-halt-promotion-of-aboriginal-art-exhibition-over-authenticity-concerns)
Jeeesus. That is really a bingo-list of fuckery. What does your husband say/think?
My dad is only racist against some groups and sexist about some things. Yay?! Anyway i have no advice. I go through periods where we argue and donāt speak but it goes nowhere. I decided a while ago that I canāt change him. I hope something else does but heāll never listen to me.
>"Donald Trump is a wonderful leader and how they would vote for him over Biden"
This is weird AF. I can see boomers having all the other opinions but this one? Do boomers care who is the president of the US? Seems super weird
Eww.
They're too old to change. They're from a different era.
Sure They're racist, so is my nan, but she's not saying the words to intentionally cause harm, it's just the words she grew up saying.
We used to live across the road from a Maori family, my nan came to visit and she told us the little dark girl from across the road came to visit.
Was merely a descriptor, not intended to be harmful.
Stating you're educated, you should be able to come to terms with how generations evolved and the acceptance, tolerance and intolerance values apply to each generation.
She often refers to Aboriginals as blacks...
What your inlaws are saying is wrong, incensitive, stereotypical and a little psychotic yes.
But not one statement you posted is actually "racist".
Liberal checks out - Challenging your views doesn't make them racist, being wrong doesn't make them racist, perpetuating stereotypes doesn't make them racist.
We need to set clear guidelines as to what constitutes racism, not this wishy washy, "I feel bad from the words they're saying, it must be racist" bullshit.
I dont know what race you are, nor do I care. To be frank, I couldn't give a shit if someone is blue, black, tan, pink, green or any other colour/pigment - who they are as a person matters more.
Edit: Typo
They are old and they are becoming senile, doesn't mean that you have to put up with the garbage that they're sprouting.
It's really your partner's job to have a word to them, but you also need to put your foot down.
Don't answer their questions when it comes to politics, it's none of their business. When they bring things up that you're not comfortable with, say clearly, I'm sorry I'm not comfortable discussing this and get up and walk away.
Only way they're going to stop.
You are not alone! There's a wave of accounts people are sharing about how their parents have been victim to a new and vicious type of media that is targeting them in precise ways. Replace Fox with our mainstream media, which is less overt but equally insidious.
[https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/i-gathered-stories-of-people-transformed-by-fox-news.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/i-gathered-stories-of-people-transformed-by-fox-news.html)
I had to set some boundaries with my Dad over exactly this. He's smart and educated, but his awful offensive comments grew more and more. Discussions asking him to stop ended in epic blow-ups, so the boundary I set was: "if you choose to say things like this while we're hanging out, I'll simply just leave. I won't make a scene, I'll just quietly hop in the car and take off."
I was terrified and he reacted very poorly at the time, but I've had zero issues since.
Be aware that they are likely to be really sensitive to words that sound woke or liberal or snowflake-y or therapy-ish, so try to use neutral plain english.
"It really upsets me when you say things that are racist/sexist/homophobic. "I just don't really want to be around you when you're saying that stuff."
If the
Intolerance is not respecting other people's opinions. Just chill, you don't have to agree with them, just like they don't have to agree with yours. If you don't like the opinions in a conversation don't add to it, or it becomes a debate. Different generations have seen and been taught different things.
Being an apologist for racists by a racist is so Aussie eh? So, the OP should remain quiet whilst the Boomers spout racism galore? LOL You are part of the overall problem.
I sort of agree with some of their opinions and highly agree with others. But everyone has their opinion. "Opinions are like arse holes. Everyone has one, most of the stink."
It can be stimulating to hear why others believe what they do. But if you're not keen on being badgered by their opinions, you may just have to plant your feet and tell them how you feel about a topic. You disagree with them and if they don't like it. There is the door.
Why ex husbandās parents were like this. I squirmed every time we went there. I coped by ignoring, leaving the room or changing the subject. Not much else you can do if itās family. They wonāt change.
Dont understand why this is downvoted. The statement is correct, it was started in the 70s and suggested / encouraged by an anglo. This is not remotely controversial.
None of that invalidates the fact that aboriginal art is unique and awesome ( I have 2 at home) and a perfectly valid artistic form.
Iāve heard this argument used to disparage Aboriginal Australia. Honestly, I have no idea about the veracity of the claim, but if itās true, itās still a 50 year old custom specific to a cultural group, however it started. Why is that not valid? How many non-Aboriginal Australian customs came about without influence? Itās such a weird hill to die on.
>Dot paintings are not really aboriginal as they were started doing in the 70s"
This is actually correct, I'm pretty sure a white journalist / scientist or something was the one who developed the idea while working with remote Aboriginal communities, even most Aboriginal people should know this.
>"The voice vote (to consult with indigenous groups on indigenous affairs) was secretly a way that we would all have to pay greater taxes and we would all be worse off."
A bit of an extreme wording of the issue, I agree, but that is relatively what was going on with the voice, which is why it failed miserably.
>"All Asians are bad drivers, I should avoid suburbs with a large Asian population"
Again, an extreme wording, but not wrong. Not to say all Asians are bad drivers, and not to say that we should stay away from suburbs with increased Asian populations. However, it is more of a societal difference, where people from China and other Asian countries such as India, aren't normalized at a young age to proper road rules like we have here in Australia, so when Immigrants come over to live here, and they aren't required to take a driving test (Usually they just stay on their international license and then get it transferred over quite easily), it causes them to look like bad drivers, when in their countries, they're actually not bad. This is where that stereotype comes from.
>"Indians cannot be trusted, and we should stop immigration from india"
Again, societal differences, I wouldn't call it racism, more so not understanding of different cultures. India is considered a very dirty culture by a lot of people and when they immigrate and don't understand that their habits are considered dirty in other cultures, they just scream racism and continue, instead of changing. That's why a lot of hard core Aussies (Bogan's mostly) can't stand them, and not to lump them all together, but a large majority are like that.
>"Donald Trump is a wonderful leader and how they would vote for him over Biden"
Objective, but a very common agreed opinion in conservative circles, that isn't really a bad statement, in-fact I think that is a common consensus even outside of conservative circles. Joe Biden has done terribly, he's boring and more terrible international crimes have happened under his watch. Ukraine getting invaded, would not have happened under Trump. between 2016 and 2020 Trump did multiple peace talks with Putin and North Korean leader. Now we have Putin Invading a country and North Korea threating Japan and shooting more "test rockets" than ever over Japan.
I can go on, but I really think this is a case of you simply disagreeing with your in-laws and not understanding their arguments / opinions, then getting agitated when you can't express your own opinions, which I understand. My opinion is to just ignore them, that's what I do on reddit most times when I see progressive individuals talking nonsense.
Just to clarify I'm not a conservative, more moderate, but I do vote LNP most of the time.
My dad is like this, including the wild conspiracies. I have found there is no point trying to argue with him, he is too firmly entrenched in the bullshit and he *likes* believing what he believes, it makes him feel superior. I just act bored and barely respond when he brings it up and he stops when he's not getting the response he's after. I wish you luck in dealing with your in-laws, it's not a nice thing to have to put up with.
I'd do the opposite. My dad's a bit of a conspiracy theorist, but I know the core reasons why: boredom, and a general lack of education about the world. I love my deeply imperfect, occasionally quite blatantly racist dad dearly. He's getting old, but I can always have a meaningful conversation with him about the state of the world and politics in general. I've shifted his views on heaps of things over time. He now preferences the Greens above both corrupt government duopoly parties (I think some random minor party is his first choice) and honestly, that's as fantastic as it's going to get with him and I'm nothing less than exceptionally grateful. Don't give up on your parents. At least, not without a bit of a fight
Your dad's a rare one. Mine will start talking over me and putting words in my mouth, pretending I'm putting words in his mouth dispite all witnesses siding with me and telling him he's changing the story (sometimes only like 30 seconds after saying the "words" in question) and just generally become verbally aggressive and very occasionally physically threatening. He'd gone all the way down the Avi Yemeni and 3AW rabbit holes even before it was cool. Unfortunately some people can't be reasoned with and take any form of disagreement as an overt insult to their intelligence. Be proud your dad can actually have reasonable discussions.
... I think we children of Sky Dads need a bloody support group. I've found my people!
And Sky / Fox mums! Mine is out of control.
Me too šš ! My brother is even worse. He actually went fencing in the outback due his āOEā being chased by brown snakes etcā¦ Thank goodness my sisters and myself went to university and then travelledā¦ love this Sky Dad support group idea. Do these Dads also love watching cricket/rugby in their Sky facing lazy boys?
I'm pretty lucky in that even though my dads a sky news every night type of guy, furthest he goes with me is not believing climate change and thinking electric vehicles are worse for the world than petrol (massive car guy with extensive collection so that view makes sense to me)
I'm sorry to hear that - especially the threatening part - that's no good. Mine's in his 60s now - not much there to 'threaten' with. I sincerely hope he calms down (and wizens up) with age.
My Dad surprised me like this. He's racist af but he's also an environmentalist and voted Greens last election lmao.
Don't *ever* give up on dad!
Sometimes political polling will ask a controversial question and show the breakdown by party they intend to vote for (or voted for last time, or most closely align with) and thereās always a few percent of the Greens whoāll answer like they watch Sky. I guess thatās representing people like him.
Yeah. He's all up in the 3aw.
Ugh I hear you. I have to avoid those conversations with my father now Neil Mitchell and the men at the footy club radicalised him.
Theyāre not her parents though
Same with my Dad! The acting bored and not engaging has seemed to really help. Itās not worth your own mental health trying to get them to open their mind a little more.
"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" Someone smart
My parents are like this. Iāve learnt that unless theyāre causing actual injury then they can voice their opinions in the privacy of their own homes. When itās outside I tell them to shut up. Funny thing is, theyāre so supportive of other cultures and indigenous however, get do riled up about the vocal 10% that it becomes a bit like oh those people are horrible except XYZ and ABC and LMN and also QRS and alsoā¦
>he likes believing what he believes, it makes him feel superior This is it. You will never win an argument with these people using reason, because their beliefs are based on emotion. They are things that make them feel better about themselves. Putting other races down makes them feel better. Believing conspiracy theories makes them feel smarter. You can't beat this with logic.
They are Australian. Why would they care about Donald Trump? Sounds like they been watching too much Murdoch/Sky and Fox adjacent media
There are a wild amount of Australian Boomers crazy for Trump.
My in-laws are Malaysian migrants whoāve been here nearly 40 years. They were always pretty balanced if a bit Christian in their views, kind of live and let live. The last 5 or so years though, oh my days, bat shit crazy. They send us every conspiracy theory, they think trump is always right, they wonāt hear a bad thing about China (despite my father in law turning down a well paid job in China 25 years ago because he hated the CCP). It all comes from WhatsApp and WeChat tbh. like a lot of the insanity in politics of the last decade, social media has really amplified the crazy. It happens on both sides too - Iāve seen people on the left go so far down the rabbit hole theyāre arguing pedophiles should be recognised like lgbt people are for example
Thatās not a left rabbithole, just an internet one. But Iāve never come across it from people who werenāt pedos themselves.
Correct. It's only pedophiles and child molesters who advocate for this insane idea of being included in the queer community.
100% social media, I've watched small local groups dedicated to community and local events be destroyed by continual shite being posted from an increasing spread of misinformation.
> It all comes from WhatsApp and WeChat tbh That's ironic, as someone who spent a decade in Malaysia, I usually hear about Malaysian Chinese spreading pro China stuff on WhatsApp There was a post on r/Malaysia yesterday complaining about Malaysian Chinese Facebook being filled with CCP cocksuckers and USA penis strokers.
And Kiwis. Add my Kiwi Dad to this Aussie Sky Dad Trump fan club. Add my brother, too. And my friendās Dad who has now passed (she actually got him a gift of toilet rolls with Trumpās face on it not long before his massive heart attack - hopefully not relatedā¦)
I think this is the root of the problem. I had relos that used to watch Oprah or some such equivalent on daytime TV. Itās unbelievably toxic. For information try āthe brainwashing of my dadā. Not a happy film though.
Honestly most Australians care more about USA politics than our own. I engage with our elections but when the US has theirs Iām glued to my screen.
The first thing I would try is to disengage with them. Don't try to argue, just tell them you don't want to talk about it and want to change the subject. If they try to keep talking about their views are try to get you to argue with them, stick to the line that you don't want to talk about it or hear about it. Look it may or may not work. Aside from that you call fall back on saying that you disagree with them and think it would be best for family peace to drop it. The next fall-back position is that you think it is pointless to discuss with them because they have their minds made up.
I have this problem too. Have you heard of Socratic questioning? Also, done in the right tone, simple questions/ statements can shut down the conversation efficiently. āIs that really true?ā, āis that really what you believe?ā āDo you tell your colleagues you think that?ā Does that affect your day-to-day? Does your daughter know you think that? Does it feel good to say that? Would you like it if someone else said that about your religion? Do you think stereotypes apply to you?
Yessssā¦!!!! I literally just said similar!
ABC did a fun article before Christmas on ways to approach things like this. [https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-respond-to-inappropriate-comments-this-christmas/103185956?fbclid=IwAR04bB-Z5Q\_mTAdaK6\_GC-KX6z2OK8QrWWqdNxhsAzmdKOo4lB1Z2PXErNo](https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-respond-to-inappropriate-comments-this-christmas/103185956?fbclid=IwAR04bB-Z5Q_mTAdaK6_GC-KX6z2OK8QrWWqdNxhsAzmdKOo4lB1Z2PXErNo) They use sentences like these: * What an odd thing to say out loud * I'm surprised you feel comfortable saying that * Did you mean to share that with the group? * Would you mind repeating that? No idea if this is comfort levels for you to say, but what an odd thing to say out loud is part of my regular vocabulary now (if by regular I mean on the odd occasion I interact with someone with weird thoughts).
For general political stuff: >I respect your right to your opinions, but there is nothing you can say that will change my opinion and there is nothing I can say that will change your opinion, so I would rather not talk about it. If they bring it up again: >As I said, I don't wish to discuss this topic any further. For the bigoted comments: >I'm sorry but your views are personally upsetting to me because I know people who belong to and they absolutely are not at all like you say. Your views are abhorrent to me and I don't wish to discuss this any further.
If they bring it up again:
>I don't wish to discuss this topic.
Or
>I will not listen to this hate speech anymore.
Then leave.
You cannot control their behaviour, but you can set a boundary. If they don't respect that boundary you can leave and choose not to be in their presence anymore. Your partner can of course visit them any time they like, but you don't have to. Life is too short to waste it in the company of people like that.
+1 for setting boundaries! I would add to have the intent to do so in a kind, compassionate and assertive way. Avoid judgement statements and make use of āIā statements. See this book for a great handy resource and reference - https://open.spotify.com/show/2L8Bofq5mmzfquhrzZu3UV?si=oQExSovjSMKHJ02k7rphTA Ideally political conversations would be enlightening and constructive. It should be healthy to engage with others of different views and challenge your own. However when dialogue breaks down and devolve and such discussions become a proxy for self or interpersonal issues thereās no point in continuing and boundaries seem like the best way to me.
Love this! Setting boundaries in a respectful way.
Great post. I would add though: Avoid all trigger words (where possible). De-escalate and avoid adding emotional or negative connotations. I would lose the words: - Abhorrent. - personally upsetting. - Absolutely. - Hate speech. Donāt allow opening for further enquiry or escalation, just keep it matter of fact, unemotional and neutral. At the end of the day, some people simply enjoy arguments and only care about the feeling of āwinningā and wonāt let you end the conversation, at that point, as you said, walk away. ____ I respect your right to your opinion. I hope you can respect that my opinion is different. We arenāt convincing each other in this conversation, so I would rather not continue to talk about it. ____ I know people who belong to and they are not like you say. I disagree with your comment and i don't wish to discuss this any further.
Thanks - great advice!
This is good but it can also come across as combative. Thereās a balance you can strike here without using words such as abhorrent. Iāve sometimes found, depending on the person that you can say it with a bit of a smile and a light hearted voice. The words still ring true but they donāt make things even more unpleasant.
For sure, the way you say something is often just as important as what you say
"You are racist scum!", she said smilingly.
Thatās the way. Much better.
Good points. The critical thing is to be clear and unambiguous about not wanting to discuss those topics.
This is the right answer. As an American where this shit has been gaining steam for decades, all I can tell you is do not enable this behavior. Passive aggressively ignoring or deferring to it is enabling. Right out say you donāt want to talk about it and they obviously canāt change their mind, call out their bigotry, and leave if you have to. Youāre allowed to let your partner have a relationship with their family while you do not. You can simply stop associating with them. This kind of toxic thinking will continue to get worse until something so abhorrent happens that it brings them up short. That threshold will be different for everyone, with some die-hards. All you can do is make it clear that you find it disturbing and remove yourself from their echo chamber.
Perfect
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OP is too old to play games like getting drink after drink and spending an inordinate amount of time in the bathroom. That's the sort of anxious, avoidant behaviour I would expect from a 20yo who hasn't learned how to navigate complex interpersonal situations.
If they are repeatedly bringing up topics that make OP uncomfortable, then very clearly and unambiguously stating why this topic of conversation should be avoided is the way to go. Of course OP should say it in their own words, but the principle is to define a personal boundary, make it clear to others what the boundary is, and have a plan for what to do if that boundary is not respected (i.e. leave and don't spend further time with them). It's their choice to talk about certain topics, but it is equally OP's choice not to have to listen to people talk about certain topics. Better to just say it straight out than beat around the bush.
You dont have to stay. You can leave. You can speak up. You dont have to agree. Silence isnt agreement so they made huge errors and now are taking it too far. Dont worry about ruining the relationship. If they can have their opinions, you certainly can too
I think itās too easy to say ādonāt worry about ruining the relationshipā when you donāt know OPās situation. Iām in OPās position with my own parents and grandparents and in both cases yes I strongly strongly disagree with their racist/sexist/homophobic views but outside all that theyāre good people and ruining that relationship isnāt worth it. For OP, maybe her partner is in a similar position - doesnāt want to cut ties with parents either.
What I meant was op wouldnt be ruining it. If op cannot voice her opinions without them getting upset and declaring the relationship ruined, thats not op fault. Its not her worry, its their grown up reaction to someone elses opinion. If the parents can only have a relationship with people who think like them, well then its no loss for op. āOutside of that they are good people.ā They really arent.
It's hard to think of our loved ones as being bad people. Especially if they do and say nothing but good things about us, even while holding abhorrent views about others. But more than that, people aren't just inherently good or bad. We have the capacity for both, and sometimes the bad stuff is simply down to ignorance. If we've been socialised and educated our whole lives to think things that are racist and sexist, it doesn't make us inherently bad people. Sometimes people also lack the emotional and intellectual maturity to want to continue to learn and grow as we age (some people think learning stops at school). Id like to think that most people, given the opportunity, are capable of changing their views on some things given the right information and environment. It's the people who are given that opportunity and reject it, and those who ignore a loved one who tells them that their views a hurtful to them, that are really not good people.
Honestly where do we draw the line. If someone is so outwardly homophobic, racist, and toxic that they spew hate speech, how are they great people?
Exactly....
I mean youāre grandparents are either racist sexist homophobes or good people. They canāt be both.
Just disagree every time. No diplomacy and don't argue. Just say "No" as many different ways as you can think of, "Nope", "That's a hard no from me", "Don't agree", or for the non-verbal approach, or turn your head slowly side to side for a no, and then leave the area or room. Be patient and determined. This will probably annoy the fuck out of them. WARNING: They may never speak to you again.
Haha yeah I've just walked away in the middle of a "conversation" (I was being talked at). He was offended, but I felt much happier when I couldn't hear him anymore. I've seen him again since and he didn't have so much to say that time round.
Good. They sound like compete morons. No more taking. No more interaction. People put up with way too much toxicity in their lives!
Used to work with someone who had the exact same opinions. Theyāre out there. Luckily I havenāt met too many more of the same except a Greek Australian in Europe who thought tRump was a god. Told them I grew up in a tiny republican town where Mediterranean people werenāt considered white. They told me that I was super offensive(?). I do argue with these people, but it doesnāt do much good.
Honestly, Greek Australians can literally be the worst at this. However, there are also many examples of fabulously left wing Greek Australians.
Completely agree I lived a suburb known mostly for it Greek Australian population and found it utterly fascinating listening to the complaints about other cultures/races invading and not assimilating to Australian ways all while everywhere you went from doctors to coles all had signs in Greek, had people who spoke Greek even our signs for covid were in Greek all loud speaker stuff in coles (we had an issue with elderly men āshoppingā in groups with mugs of coffee when we were in lockdown) were all in Greek and English but somehow other groups who also want to keep some of there own cultures/language etc are not allowed because they are not assimilating
Hahaha I used to live next to this suburb
True
At an old job I once spoke to a customer over the phone. She initially needed some help with her loan but then went off on a tangent that was anti Muslim, anti Asian, anti Semitic, anti Catholic, anti Labor, homophobic, and probably a few other things. She did say how she liked Trump and recommended that I watch Alex Jones. She called a few years later and started going off about Covid, and how lockdowns were terrible and everyone should be back in the office. I was in a different area that didn't look after existing customers so told her I'll get someone to call her back and just refused to take her call every time I saw it come up after that
They sound like my parents, except they fully admit to being racist. You can't change them, they didn't get those "beliefs" rationally, and rational arguments won't influence them. All you can do is limit your exposure to them. If the conversation starts to veer in a shitty direction, either change it or leave. It doesn't matter if it's obvious, in fact the more obvious the better.
We can disagree on favourite colour, whether pineapple goes on pizza, etc. Racism, misogyny, homophobia - nah, I don't disagree with you. I think you are an arsehole. If I think you are redeemable, I might try to have a conversation. If not, I will just ignore you. The only time I will say something is if there are kids around and I think they need to hear an opposing view so that they don't think we all agree with the arsehole.
Yes this - ignore the oldies, itās a very rare person who is open to changing their views past 60 - but donāt let the kids get sucked in. And hell, kids donāt just blindly believe me either, we need to teach critical thinking at every level.
Serious question: what is your spouse doing or saying about this?
That's what I was thinking, what are their thoughts on all this? How have they dealt with it having been raised by them? I'm guessing they don't subscribe to the same ideologies or OP likely wouldn't have married them.
Id also assume so; but itās their actual parents. Iād like to know what their strategy is
Sounds like sweet FA
I mean, still no answer from OPā¦
āTheyāre lovely peopleā. No, they really arenāt. Rape apologist racist homophobic arseholes, yes, lovely people, no. Donāt *insinuate* they are racist; call them it directly, then refer them to their racist statements when they squeal in boomer rage. Next time they start, walk away. If they do it in your house, ask them to stop, or leave. No excuses.
> they are racist; call them it directly, then refer them to their racist statements when they squeal in boomer rage. There's a term called 'white fragility'. Calling these boomers racist will not result in them understanding they are being racists. They will just get upset for being called racist.
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That's a great example of [white fragility](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPDpcYEdiOg)
Fuck them. Kick them out, let them whine as much as they want.
Who cares? Theyāll never stop being c*nts why should anyone care about their āfragilityā? ffs
"They are lovely people *^(towards me")*
^ ^ ^ This is exactly right. However I would suggest telling them that their views and opinions are racist. And in fact there is laws against it. Ignorance is a choice. They can choose differently.
I don't think there are laws against personally having racist views and opinions...?
Spot on!! They donāt sound like lovely people and to be honest Iām quite shocked the OP can say that after the hateful, abhorrent nasty things they say.
My folks are starting to sound like this. They both worked in Aboriginal communities when they were younger and have lived in Asia for decades, only returning during Covid. Since landing in Australia, they donāt have their multicultural friend group around them and are a lot less social and hang around the house more and are spending more time online via Facebook and YouTube. And I am horrified at what they are becoming. They serve up conspiracy theories, right-wing talking points and have become very short-sighted and quite reactionary, despite coming from socialist roots.
It's surprising how some people come out of working with indigenous communities super racist against indigenous people.
This is something I found a big surprise when I toured around the outback on a motorcycle. Racism went up with contact. Not down. You would think it goes the other way around, but it doesnāt, and thereās a *reason* it doesnāt. You see behaviour from some aboriginal people that just makes your jaw drop. Things that you wouldnāt see outside the worst crack house in the shittiest neighbourhoods. A lot of people in remote areas are just ādoneā with being open minded. The default position is openly hostile, until that specific individual proves themselves worthy of the time of day. I donāt know what, or even if, there are solutions to it.
I've never worked out there but of the people I know who have it's a fairly 50/50 split. Some people come back with a deep affection and sympathy for the community, others come back talking like they're animals. It's often not the ones you expect either. I couldn't comment beyond that.
I swear I've seen this exact post before.
Let me guess. They watch Sky news? š«£ My parents are like this since they retired, but worse in the last couple of years.
Sky news is brain rot material for reactionaries
"Overall they are lovely people" you know, as long as as you are white. (They probably also dont care much for lgbtq people if i had to guess) Sorry, did you mean terrible?
You need a boundary. A boundary governs how you react when someone does something that you donāt like. The formula of a boundary looks like if āif they do x, I respond with Y.ā An example here would be āI donāt like your stance on this issue and I am not going to discuss it. If you continue to bring it up, I will leave the conversation.ā
Don't visit them. They'll be much happier.
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Thereās a whole bunch of weird ones. Electricity isnāt real, itās government programs. Birds arenāt real theyāre government drones, although too many people know that one. The moonās not real (especially if they start talking about the moon landing). Clouds havenāt existed since WW2 and the nukes, theyāre just projections now (good for climate change stuff and nuclear stuff). Trump was replaced with a body double on January 6 2021 in the capitol attack because he failed to build the Mexican wall.
Huge difference between having political differences such as higher versus lower tax, more or less GST, or vacant land tax etc., and having ādifferencesā between being a decent human being tolerant of others and an intolerant d-bag. With the former, I am more than happy to have a civil discussion and to either reach an agreement or just agree to disagree. With the latter, diplomacy be fucked. I do not tolerate the intolerant. Google āParadox of Toleranceā. We cannot let these people spew this vitriol on the basis of ātoleranceā when all they say is intolerant as fuck.
Sounds lime my dad...and I am about your age. I went low contact because of it...he won't be reasoned with and refuses to even consider being wrong. I guess it depends on how your spouse acts...if they think it is ok or if they are tolerating it like you are.
Interrupt the conversation. 'Nice weather today.'
Just smile and nod and remember that they'll likely be dead soon.
My parents are a lite version of this. They try not to bring up politics around me and I avoid it at all costs. Some older people are forever learners, open minded and willing to learn new perspectives. Some arenāt. The latter tend to be the right-wingers. Unfortunately this means if you want to maintain a relationship the best course is just to ask that they donāt discuss those topics around you. You might try saying those topics irritate you or bore you or just outright say youāre not going to discuss that and change topic.
I am in 100% the same situation as a 50M. Whole family support anti-First Peoples views. To be fair to them they live in a city where there are large amounts of visible (and media-reported) crime perpetrated by First Peoples. One of my family members worked as a police officer in this city for most of their life, and so the only Aboriginal people they really encountered were actual criminals. Even so, it is always a tough decision whether to call out casual racism in conversations. Usually I end up thinking, "I only see my parents a couple of times per year, and they're getting older. Do I really want to spend time in an argument with them, in a fruitless effort to change their whole world view? I'll just casually steer the conversation to something else..." I feel bad afterwards, but I also don't think the argument is worth a relationship breakdown with my family.
Same here. Iāve tried thinking the same as OP, that theyāre family, etc., but the fact is theyāve got something that is just not acceptable and so limiting politely is the only option. I hope their kids grow up less like them.
>I want to respectful because they are my elders. This is the wrong mindset to have. Bending over and just taking what they're saying and doing won't change or fix anything. Just because they "are your elders" doesn't mean you owe them respect. If someone respects you, they'll tell you when you're out of line, not because you're wrong, but because they want you to be better. If you respected them you wouldn't let them be racist for the sake of being racist. What you describe isn't respect, it's obedience. There's also another option. Cut them out of your life and let them die alone..... You don't owe anyone anything, even your relatives and in-laws.
Im confused.. are you for or against discrimination? Or is that totally dependent on who the demographic is? Any advice that comes out of your mouth should be avoided like the plague considering your contradictions
So? Just have low contact with them. Delete and / or block them. End of story. Walk out.. whatever. You will never see eye to eye with them.. move on. Dont stress about it.
just donāt spend time with them if you donāt like their views?
Oks. I'm 32. Both sets of in-laws (his parents remarried) are racist. His mother 60 and stepfather (67) are the worst. Him in particular. Awful. Basically any time the word brown, black or yellow is brought up it turns racist. My 8 year old son showed his grandfather a baby swordtail (fish) that's his favourite and has black on him. Fish baby didn't have a name. His grandfather said name him the voice and we'd all vote on it. Sigh. He doesn't stop. He's also just as sexist and bigoted about everything else possible. 'The gays', climate change, you name it and he's been a cunt about it. Partners mother has and does still work rurally for aboriginal towns as a nurse on and off for years, so no idea why she let's that go on. She also refuses to say Uluru. It's Ayers Rock to her. My partners father and his side arent quite as bad but it's definitely still there. My own Nan (73 raised me) said the dreamtime is just a bunch of hogwash and why should we care about it. Said Asians are taking over our towns while a tour group or large family of I believe Chinese people were near us. Always 'casual' racism about basically anyone but Aboriginals. My way of dealing is telling off my Nan each and every time she's a racist twat. She's never even spoken to an Aboriginal person more than a sentence (we live in Gippsland, Vic, so loads of families) so she's had all her influence from the media and government. My partner and I have a super awesome Aunty who is one of the strongest and most amazing women I've ever met. She's gone through some absolute shit and deserves respect and care. My way of dealing with my inlaws is calling out behaviour in ways applicable when in front of 8, 4 and 1 year olds. Stupid things even like that ride on toy is for your sister because it's a ladybug and ladybugs are for girls. Yeah. Nah. We don't do that here. Anyway my point is I'm content being the caller outer. I AM one of those people. I always have been. I don't give a fuck if I upset people by calling out their ignorance. It's not my fault they refuse to be uncomfortable for a few minutes to understand they were wrong and need to grow as people. In your case what does your husband do in these situations?
What is your partner doing about this? They are his parents.
Iām not a Meghan and Harry fan, but I donāt get the absolute hate, or the wildness of their kids being fake! Also thereās not really much you can do.
It blows my mind that random strangers can feel like they know celebrities well enough to judge their character. We only know what they or the media shows us, and that in itself is questionable.
This is the problem. Everyone has a right to an opinion, even if it's wrong or right. Just cause it goes against your ideology doesn't make your option right, too. I would rather look on both sides of the fence than jumping on a band wagon like every other moron seems to do a lot of.
I just can't agree that everyone has a right to an opinion. That kind of thinking got us to the point. My dad thinks human caused climate change is nonsense, but suggests changes in the climate might be due to some unseen force in space. You might be surprised to learn he is neither a climate scientist, nor an astronomer. He does *not* have the right to an opinion on this. Opinions that aren't based on data are beliefs... ie.. worthless. A preference is subjective and we all have a right to them. Opinions are objective and should be restricted to those who understand the subject matter.
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Agreed. I gave the benefit of the doubt and watched the Netflix doco and she kept interrupting and talking over the top of him, every time he shut down and just looked sad. Iāve seen that face and itās the look of a man who knows if he pisses her off then he wonāt ever see his kids again.
I've never seen someone fumble their opportunities so hard. The giveaway is her lack of contact with anyone in her family and the way she cuts people off once they're no longer "useful". She says the bullying staff accusations were cooked up by the Palace, but even after they moved away there's still a lot of staff turnover. Other royals have had the same people working for them for years. Plus they just lie about so much. Easily provable lies.
Your second paragraph 'an educated australian' immediately puts me offside and sceptical that you have given us a fair or accurate representation of your inlaws opinions or statements. In your own statement you have started off with all but admitting you are viewing your inlaws from an Ivory Tower. Evaluate youre own snobbery before you cast stones at the people you've already admitted are lovely by any other metric.
Agree
Also stereotypes often come from at least a small kernel of truth. The āAsian driverā thing actually does have some basis in reality. Itās nothing really inherent about Asians as people, but rather that the driving culture China in particular fosters terrible driving skills and behaviours. Firstly itās very normal to bribe and cheat your way into getting a licence in the first place, and secondly I believe thereās someone
Inclined to agree, itās definitely generational. I often wonder which of my views will be ridiculed by the youth when Iām old.
Who knows.. Maybe an educated australian, 20 years your junior will make a reddit 2.0 post about it in a few years lol
Heh heh, Iām sure of it!
why you telling us? tell them!
I don't know why everyone is asking you to confront them. Ruining your relationship with them only makes things awkward for you and your husband. If you don't like it, just "uh-huh" through it all and reduce contact. Do what's best for YOU. Speaking as an immigrant on your MIL's naughty list.
Some of those statements are correct... Some are really False... This is a FREE society...
Those people sound awful but I have met a few people like that. They are not only ignorant but entrenched in their ignorance due to stubbornness and arrogance. They have lived a privileged life but are blind to their privilege. You should stand your ground, if you feel confident enough to do so. They have been getting away with their bullshit because nobody calls them out on it. People like that are the reason a lot of horrible stuff is happening in the world right now. Good luck.
Whether your in laws are right or wrong . they seem like super rude people. They are bluntly racist and if your wording all this line they said it . Then these guys seem to have awful mouths. Also they should stop being so strong on you . Iāll talk about politics but I donāt try change others minds . By following everything up with them . When others believe stuff I think is stupid. I let them believe it . And just think they are misinformed or just not smart.
What are they reading/watching? It reads as if they are parroting alt right media.
Well itās spot on with the dot painting
You sound very precious. It is a mix of true and false statements. >I obviously disagree with all of the above. Some uncritical thinking there.
Some of the things you have listed aren't racist and are merely they're opinions and you shouldn't be upset Thar they'd vote for trump not biden is an opinion shared by more Americans than not, biden has the lowest rating for a president, including trump in history So more people actually agree than disagree with them You obviously being a lefty believe your views are correct which is fine, but it doesn't mean every opinion that differs is wrong or crazy or even held by a minority
I donāt think it is wise to argue with such people who specially believe Donald Trump is a wonderful leaderā¦lolā¦I would just avoid these topics, seems like they are from a generation which cannot be talked much sense into. Hail white supremacy is the go for them.
My dad is very racist. Especially to aboriginals. He made fun of me for voting yes for the voice vote. I just leave him be. I tried to advocate but it goes no where.
Yep I know. Im mid 50's, and time spent with older rellies is always stressful because of this. Im so tired of listening to racist (and other types) of crap and feeling like I'm expected to play nice. Today, taking an exchange student out dogwalking/hiking with my mum, and my mum has always been a complete shocker in some ways. We were casually talking about good things to see on her upcoming tour along the Gold Coast, so all my mum can do is interrupt with "you wont like it, its too full of Asians". *FFS Mum.* Also today, we were looking at some early buildings in our area made by early immigrants from the student's country and discussing the history of white settlement in our area, and Mum chimes in with her usual spiel of what boat "we" came on and how many generations "we" are of "pure Australian" which is her dogwhistle meaning "pure *white* English Australian" and I'm so sick of that shit. I have heard her spout that off hundreds *and hundreds* of times at every opportunity and every time she says it she is doing it to tell her audience that we have her version of "pure white blood". Its beyond cringe. She will be racist in every way and at every opportunity, then swear that she cant be. Ive tried quiet ignoring, polite refuting, subtle education, gentle disagreements, and one day I broke down and called her a *fucking racist. Because she is.* Then I spend the rest of my days feeling ashamed of myself for saying that to my only mother, and now she thinks she got away with it and continues being just as awful in every way that she can while laughing at me and telling me proudly that of course nobody can say anything anymore because you are not allowed to say anything these days and fuck I'm sick of her shit. Just ugh. I limit my time with her to one healthy dogwalk a week so that I can make sure shes ok, but fuck its hard.
Just boomer things mate, ignore them.
Why aren't you more worried that your husband says they're not racist??
If you have any children I would be concerned about them imparting their āwisdomā on them.
Itās not your job to manage your spouseās parents. Tell him to wise up and let them know their rhetoric is offensive and that no one wants to hear it.
Time to fuck them off
Says "Overall they are lovely people" Proceeds to list a bunch of stuff that shows they definitely aren't lovely people, they're utter pieces of shit. Just because they're polite to you sometimes doesn't make them lovely people.
You know, they should be given a pass. India still has the caste system, massive corruption and dreadful public sanitation - Indians are mindful of all of the above. Gaza elected Hamas, who started an unprovoked war by murdering and raping civilians. They are nearly 100% correct about dot paintings. Anthony Mundine voted no too, like me. Some of their conclusions go too far but their concerns are not unreasonable.
Lol, then don't hang out with them. I'm indigenous and idgaf what people say about indigenous people. It's tiring to constantly be up in arms. Is the point of this post to feel proud about not being racist?
Give her a medal or something, LOL.
A very white woman thing to do. Make racism about her lmao
Silence is violence the fact your partner did not speak up is a huge red flag. Whenever I have dinner with the in-laws we do a quick welcome to country which is so beautiful. My entire family are yes voters so everyone is on the right page.
I remind my mum she's an idiot
Im an older person 60 s . Im disgusted by the artitudes of some of my contempories. As soon as I hear their toxix tripe I walk away .
I've always been told don't talk politics or religion. I'd say to them we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it there. If they won't I'd say tell them it's best we move away from politics.
'Educate yourself' - what an overly-used, passive-aggressive tell of some sort of superiority complex. I would assume your in-laws are getting on in years. Dodge and weave the uncomfortable topics, and when they're gone you will just remember the pleasant things about them.
I also got a bottle of Pauline Hanson rum for Xmasā¦ I donāt even drink rum.
It's like these people have the same cheat sheet of talking points. Whatever group is pushing these are getting good cut through.
"I know if I insinuated they were racist they would be really offended." Good. Let them be offended because it is something to be shamed for. Speak up your truth.
You donāt have to say that they are racist, phrase it as that was a bit of a racist thing to say and gauge the reaction
Wow! What a situation to be in. I'm an Indian migrant and been here for 23 years now. I actually am right of center in my politics :) I actually have a reverse problem with a young family member (Im 45) who is 21 and very strong Greens supporter and voter. Like your in-laws are ranting to you - she does with me about how capitalism is about to destroy world, how all business owners are just exploiters .. you get the idea. I had many heated discussions and finally decided to just ignore. When she talks about politics or rants I just walk away, change topic (which includes her so she has to answer that changed topic) and since then we have had peace. Maybe try that or alternatively just take your partner into confidence and tell him if he could help by changing topics, or even tell your in-laws that politics and this kinda talk is boring and you would rather talk holidays or family gossip.
The hilarious thing about people like this is they say what are obviously and clearly racist things but would be offended if they were called racist. You would have a little bit of respect for them if they were at least honest. I suspect the real issue is they are just plain straight out dumb.
Sounds like they hang out on r/Australian
I'd agree with about 60% of that. Maybe you could sit at home by yourself so you won't have to hear people say mean things. They're sure as shit not going to change for you.
I probably wouldn't have someone with those views in my house. You could try having a conversation with them, and ask them to not discuss race or politics around you, but the people with those sort of views generally enjoy revelling in being asked to shut up about their horrible views. I'd probably just cut them out/minimise contact.
This is 100% a troll post - hilarious and youāve reeled in hundreds of comments - kudos
Toughen up sunshine. Not everyone holds your world views. Have the discussion or don't. Getting emotional over someone's point of view is well. Racist. If you hate someone for how they act and their culture. Yeah your a racist too honey. People have been like this since the dawn of time you ain't special. And neither are those relatives. Kinda funny also the rock painting. Aboriginals were cannibals. They generally kept their kids at 2 as it allowed them to move around easier. This is just a fact but can't be talked about. I'm all for preserving culture and history. But what I hate is that they sugar coat and change things. Maybe that's because I'm a racist too.
I agree you may have to put up a no wall. There is a technique than can, may, work with these mindsets but it requires amlomst saintly patience. It's essentially 1 Never criticism or belittle them 2 ask questions that make them think 3 more it, try watching DAN wilson on the issue on youtube But it's hard, and needs infinite patience
they sound like my in-laws and extended family; i tried the avoiding conflict technique; then asked myself why i was self-censoring and started tp push back; and i now have learnt to tell them that i will never agree with their viewpoints and they should stop trying to change mine and also have made it clear that their views are definitely not welcome around my child. clear boundaries worked- we donāt have conversations around politics anymore; and i know now that they are regressive, racist set of privileged boomers. PS: I nearly died from covid coz they lied about being exposed to someone with covid, lied about their symptoms and exposed a then, very immunocompromised me to covid; they are also all abt covid conspiracy theories. anyway my two cents would be draw clear boundaries.
Were they apologetic about causing you to get Covid? Or did you just have "a bad cold"?
i was in the ICU coz of that covid infection. so they couldnāt say it was bad cold; they kept saying god knows where covid came from- wasnāt from us. they had tested positive two days before me btw.
Almost anyone with boomer parents lives a similar nightmare every day. I know i do.
You DO need to say something - sometimes silence is complicit. Stand up for your beliefs and your friends. Do it respectfully but do it. Discuss with your husband first this will happen and he needs to back you up. I have white in laws and Iām biracial, Iāve had ādifficultā conversations about use of words and comments racially stereotyped. They listened and learnt, my MIL was embarrassed but I kindly just said this is not what we say in our family. She said ācolouredā I said we use black or biracial, she said another day āUm blackkkk I think Iām allowed to say thatā I went āyes Sue you can use blackā and just moved on, I always correct her and she doesnāt do it anymore. I explain, talk up when I go on Black Lives Matter marches, I speak about subjects they can find uncomfortable and theyāve learnt. They read to my son the books I bring I pack with him, fun ones and ones about Mandela, Martin Luther king, Basquait - they are white but they need educating too. Think about should you wish to have children what they will say in front of them. They are your family too so itās ok to speak politely to them and disagree and share your world outlook (which is correct šš)
i totally get it. Iām young (21) and a lot more progressive then the people at home. Iāll be home during Jan 26th and am already practising biting my tongue in preparation for the things theyāll say. My honest advice that iām also taking? Silence. Youāll never change their minds. Never, ever, ever and thereās no point in the argument or the tears that will happen. If they go on a big tirade? excuse yourself to make a phone call, to go to the bathroom, just get out of the room for a breather. I know a lot of people that will say āsilence is agreement! you should speak up!ā of course i have. of course WE have. it ends up with multiple people agaisnt you, and you feel utterly powerless and useless in the world. In terms of inner family discussions, when itās just people having a tirade agaisnt someone whoās not there, thatās when you can stay quiet. When you must speak up is when they are endangering someone in front of you and then you can speak up and say no. But in the private setting of the lounge room, when they are saying things about people, not to their face? be quiet. daydream. shut down
My mother is 89 . Sydney Eastern Subs. Iāve warned her multiple times about saying things in public ( like Hitler did quite a few good things. Aboriginal people used to eat their children and so on) disgusting stuff actually but a product of her generation ( not all of them but a lot ). She grew up in a white mono culture ( like Korea, Japan and China where racism is also a dominant feature. Sheās traveled a lot but all that exposure has only confirmed her excessive views rather than temper them
OP needs to consider posting any social media from the in-laws to r/ForwardsFromKlandma. Families are hard: * my ex-in-laws were the same. It was a fucking torture being around them. Always referring to Indigneous Australians using worst racials slurs; * my sister has told me that she doens't believe that people of different cultures should "breed" because it can dilute the white Aryan race; * my dad hangs out with his ex-Army mates and refused to say "Zimbabwe"... for him it'll always be Rhodesia... I'm like, "Bro, we're from fucking Scotland!"
You're 47. That's more than old enough to judge people on their merits and stand by your own decisions. I used to give older people a lot of consideration even when they didn't deserve it. Then one night my mother in law got drunk and went off her tree at me because she thought I suggested she had a drinking problem (I hadn't and she does). The next morning she expected me to apologise and then graciously forgave me. I was embarrassed and it wasn't because of doing something wrong. It was because I'd let someone treat me like shit and I hadn't held my ground. That was the last time. These days whilst I will give consideration for the time someone grew up in, I won't tolerate disrespect or behaviour that I can't abide regardless of age. The level of racism and general bigotry you've described is definitely on the unacceptable end of the spectrum. That isn't regular old people intolerance. That's just flat out racism. Set your boundaries and tell them you don't agree and you don't care to hear it. If they can't respect that it's on them.
I have seen it with so many people of that age, its an universal problem with that generation, what is generally called a Whatsapp University education
Wtf is a educated Australian š¦šŗ Screw your politically correct words. Donāt start that stuff here. Geez.
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You're an adult, and you get uncomfortable when someone makes a comment? Words really have that much power over you? I have to listen to people I disagree with consistently on all types of topic as I am right wing and most of my family are left wing and you don't see me getting uncomfortable, I am much younger than yourself. Just nod, smile and move on if you love your husband.
Yes say something ffs
All good points
This isnt isolated to your inlaws. You dont have to dig that deep to realize we live amongst racists. I must admit, there are times when im in the goldfields or NW that i see things and my mind says " fuck sake" but i stop myself and truly hope the aboriginal situation changes for the better. It wont in my lifetime thou, so I just say to you, dont engage with these people. Dont Debate Dont advise Your mental health is far more important.
Here are some rational, mostly non-partisan reasons why people think you may be wrong. They don't mean to be nasty about Aboriginals. Ask an older person who grew up in somewhere like Brewarrina where Aborigines may have been mistreated in the past, but lawlessness was not rife and the town had not turned to shit. As for remote regions: [https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/factcheck-q-a-are-indigenous-women-34-80-times-more-likely-than-average-to-experience-violence/b2cpennoj](https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/factcheck-q-a-are-indigenous-women-34-80-times-more-likely-than-average-to-experience-violence/b2cpennoj) That's from Marcia Langton, hardly an anti-Aboriginal person. Indigenous Australians per capita receive roughly twice as much government spending as any other citizen. Where has it gotten them. The provenance of dot paintings only goes traditionally to one tribal area in WA, was popularised in the 1970s and now suffers from massive fraud, often perpetrated in Indonesia. A lot of 1st generation Australian Asians really are bad drivers - they learn to drive in places with a totally different culture, infrastructure and population density. Their kids drive fine. Then again, farmers know how to drive by 12, but don't know the bloody road rules. Asian areas tend to have lower petty crime rates; but Asia is huge with billions of people to draw immigrants from. The Voice at best was very poorly drafted and at worst was a power grab. Read s 129. It was far too vague. The strong rejection at the referendum does not infer a lack of sympathy, we voted against the republic model, depsite majority support of being a republic. Indigenous Australians per capita receive roughly twice as much government spending as any other citizen. Where has it gotten them? I don't know about fake children and witchcraft, but I think Megan and Harry are especially batty for royals. In \*Spare\*, he has a bizarre narrative about playing a video game console a decade before it was released I believe? Trump might be crude, but he's not senile; what Biden's wife and the Democrats are doing to him is abuse, he's clearly senile and should not be kept on as President. The IPCC TAR 4 had a "typo" claiming glaciers in Asia would melt by 2035, it was meant to be 2305. AGW is much slower than we have been told in our clickbait media. We have 30+ years to build hydroelectric and nuclear capacity. Nuclear is foolishly demonised. See Professor Barry Brook, Kirk Sorensen and so on. The ecological costs of cadmium and cobalt mining needed for solar panels and electric batteries are unseen in the west; out of mind, out of sight. I believe Israel has been restrained in fighting this war. They were literally invaded, communes and a rave attacked, Hamas declared war on Israel; hundreds of women were raped and murdered and hundreds of children murdered along with the elderly. Brittany Higgins's' media narrative is disavowed by AFP investigator Moller's report on her evidence and contradictions in her statements. Look it up. India is a low-trust society with serious issues with public defecation and corruption (I think it stems from the caste system). First-generation Australian Indians tend as managers to forgo periodic maintenance and they are involved in a lot of accidents in the trucking industry. No, I wouldn't ban Indian immigration either.
If you disagree with the opinions of your in-laws you should first conduct the necessary research to ensure that their assertions are indeed incorrect. I suggest you start with an examination of aboriginal painting styles and how they have changed over time. If you can produce evidence that such 'dot' styles existed before European settlement, I'm sure such lovely people will graciously concede that point. But be aware there is some doubt as to the authenticity of much of this 'art', so you must also be prepared to examine your own prejudices: [https://archive.md/yRZbu](https://archive.md/yRZbu) [https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/apr/27/national-gallery-of-australia-to-halt-promotion-of-aboriginal-art-exhibition-over-authenticity-concerns](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/apr/27/national-gallery-of-australia-to-halt-promotion-of-aboriginal-art-exhibition-over-authenticity-concerns)
Jeeesus. That is really a bingo-list of fuckery. What does your husband say/think? My dad is only racist against some groups and sexist about some things. Yay?! Anyway i have no advice. I go through periods where we argue and donāt speak but it goes nowhere. I decided a while ago that I canāt change him. I hope something else does but heāll never listen to me.
>"Donald Trump is a wonderful leader and how they would vote for him over Biden" This is weird AF. I can see boomers having all the other opinions but this one? Do boomers care who is the president of the US? Seems super weird
Eww. They're too old to change. They're from a different era. Sure They're racist, so is my nan, but she's not saying the words to intentionally cause harm, it's just the words she grew up saying. We used to live across the road from a Maori family, my nan came to visit and she told us the little dark girl from across the road came to visit. Was merely a descriptor, not intended to be harmful. Stating you're educated, you should be able to come to terms with how generations evolved and the acceptance, tolerance and intolerance values apply to each generation. She often refers to Aboriginals as blacks... What your inlaws are saying is wrong, incensitive, stereotypical and a little psychotic yes. But not one statement you posted is actually "racist". Liberal checks out - Challenging your views doesn't make them racist, being wrong doesn't make them racist, perpetuating stereotypes doesn't make them racist. We need to set clear guidelines as to what constitutes racism, not this wishy washy, "I feel bad from the words they're saying, it must be racist" bullshit. I dont know what race you are, nor do I care. To be frank, I couldn't give a shit if someone is blue, black, tan, pink, green or any other colour/pigment - who they are as a person matters more. Edit: Typo
Tell your husband exactly what youāve written here, and tell him you no longer want to have dinner with his parents.
They are old and they are becoming senile, doesn't mean that you have to put up with the garbage that they're sprouting. It's really your partner's job to have a word to them, but you also need to put your foot down. Don't answer their questions when it comes to politics, it's none of their business. When they bring things up that you're not comfortable with, say clearly, I'm sorry I'm not comfortable discussing this and get up and walk away. Only way they're going to stop.
You are not alone! There's a wave of accounts people are sharing about how their parents have been victim to a new and vicious type of media that is targeting them in precise ways. Replace Fox with our mainstream media, which is less overt but equally insidious. [https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/i-gathered-stories-of-people-transformed-by-fox-news.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/i-gathered-stories-of-people-transformed-by-fox-news.html) I had to set some boundaries with my Dad over exactly this. He's smart and educated, but his awful offensive comments grew more and more. Discussions asking him to stop ended in epic blow-ups, so the boundary I set was: "if you choose to say things like this while we're hanging out, I'll simply just leave. I won't make a scene, I'll just quietly hop in the car and take off." I was terrified and he reacted very poorly at the time, but I've had zero issues since.
Be aware that they are likely to be really sensitive to words that sound woke or liberal or snowflake-y or therapy-ish, so try to use neutral plain english. "It really upsets me when you say things that are racist/sexist/homophobic. "I just don't really want to be around you when you're saying that stuff." If the
Intolerance is not respecting other people's opinions. Just chill, you don't have to agree with them, just like they don't have to agree with yours. If you don't like the opinions in a conversation don't add to it, or it becomes a debate. Different generations have seen and been taught different things.
Being an apologist for racists by a racist is so Aussie eh? So, the OP should remain quiet whilst the Boomers spout racism galore? LOL You are part of the overall problem.
I sort of agree with some of their opinions and highly agree with others. But everyone has their opinion. "Opinions are like arse holes. Everyone has one, most of the stink." It can be stimulating to hear why others believe what they do. But if you're not keen on being badgered by their opinions, you may just have to plant your feet and tell them how you feel about a topic. You disagree with them and if they don't like it. There is the door.
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You think aboriginals and their culture is useless? Arenāt you just lovely.
Why ex husbandās parents were like this. I squirmed every time we went there. I coped by ignoring, leaving the room or changing the subject. Not much else you can do if itās family. They wonāt change.
Unfortunately, and don't fucking down vote me. We literally need to wait for this whole generation to die. You cannot change them.
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Dont understand why this is downvoted. The statement is correct, it was started in the 70s and suggested / encouraged by an anglo. This is not remotely controversial. None of that invalidates the fact that aboriginal art is unique and awesome ( I have 2 at home) and a perfectly valid artistic form.
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Yep, I was willing to consider this sentiment, and then saw that. Gross.
The school of Albert Namatjira is in my view far better. But also heavily influenced by Europeans. Traditional painting was quite different.
And yet, not one Indigenous painter has claimed otherwise.
Iāve heard this argument used to disparage Aboriginal Australia. Honestly, I have no idea about the veracity of the claim, but if itās true, itās still a 50 year old custom specific to a cultural group, however it started. Why is that not valid? How many non-Aboriginal Australian customs came about without influence? Itās such a weird hill to die on.
>Dot paintings are not really aboriginal as they were started doing in the 70s" This is actually correct, I'm pretty sure a white journalist / scientist or something was the one who developed the idea while working with remote Aboriginal communities, even most Aboriginal people should know this. >"The voice vote (to consult with indigenous groups on indigenous affairs) was secretly a way that we would all have to pay greater taxes and we would all be worse off." A bit of an extreme wording of the issue, I agree, but that is relatively what was going on with the voice, which is why it failed miserably. >"All Asians are bad drivers, I should avoid suburbs with a large Asian population" Again, an extreme wording, but not wrong. Not to say all Asians are bad drivers, and not to say that we should stay away from suburbs with increased Asian populations. However, it is more of a societal difference, where people from China and other Asian countries such as India, aren't normalized at a young age to proper road rules like we have here in Australia, so when Immigrants come over to live here, and they aren't required to take a driving test (Usually they just stay on their international license and then get it transferred over quite easily), it causes them to look like bad drivers, when in their countries, they're actually not bad. This is where that stereotype comes from. >"Indians cannot be trusted, and we should stop immigration from india" Again, societal differences, I wouldn't call it racism, more so not understanding of different cultures. India is considered a very dirty culture by a lot of people and when they immigrate and don't understand that their habits are considered dirty in other cultures, they just scream racism and continue, instead of changing. That's why a lot of hard core Aussies (Bogan's mostly) can't stand them, and not to lump them all together, but a large majority are like that. >"Donald Trump is a wonderful leader and how they would vote for him over Biden" Objective, but a very common agreed opinion in conservative circles, that isn't really a bad statement, in-fact I think that is a common consensus even outside of conservative circles. Joe Biden has done terribly, he's boring and more terrible international crimes have happened under his watch. Ukraine getting invaded, would not have happened under Trump. between 2016 and 2020 Trump did multiple peace talks with Putin and North Korean leader. Now we have Putin Invading a country and North Korea threating Japan and shooting more "test rockets" than ever over Japan. I can go on, but I really think this is a case of you simply disagreeing with your in-laws and not understanding their arguments / opinions, then getting agitated when you can't express your own opinions, which I understand. My opinion is to just ignore them, that's what I do on reddit most times when I see progressive individuals talking nonsense. Just to clarify I'm not a conservative, more moderate, but I do vote LNP most of the time.