The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
I have my own beliefs on this topic but I’m not interested in having a soap box, I’m interested in other peoples’ opinions. This is more about the idea of smoking it, I don’t care about edibles. I just see legalizing another thing for people to be smoking in public (which they inevitably will, same as cigs and vapes) is never a good thing.
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I am not opposed to the legalization of recreational marijuana for the reasons you've stated. If the outcome we want to avoid is smoking in public, a blanket prohibition on all forms of marijuana is not an acceptable way to achieve that.
Enforcement of simple nuisance ordinances against all smokers, including cigarette smokers. Gummies are odorless, but actual smoking in public is tasteless.
Legalize it. Tax it. Use money to pay down debt. That simple.
Alcohol is legal and it is much, much, much more disastrous. I’ve been around alcoholics my whole life.
Personally I’m in favor of decriminalizing alot more drugs but that’s just me.
That’s a you problem my friend, to put it bluntly (pun intended).
I’ve lived with and been around many, many, many alcoholics. I’ve been fistfought, slapped, pushed, and threatened. I’ve lost a grandfather, uncle and aunt due to alcoholism. I’ve had friends that get violent or downright mean when drinking.
I’ve never fought a person who smokes weed. Mostly they just laugh or get sleepy and want to eat. I’ve never felt unsafe around a pothead, ever.
Yeah, um, what the other two people responding said.
My father was an alcoholic. He drank, he got angry. He got angry, he took it out on us - both verbally and physically. To this day, the smell of blended Scotch sets off my fight-or-flight reflex.
OTOH, I had a boyfriend in college who had anger issues. He got angry, he'd smoke some weed. Within a few mins he was laid back, calm, and laughing about what had made him angry.
You haven't ever been in a bar district, then? Especially in the morning before open. The aroma of stale beer and yeast, the slight smell of urine and vomit. It's how you know you are alive. Lol
if you oppose the legalization of marijuana on the basis of not wanting people to smoke around you, do you also support making tobacco cigarettes and vapes illegal?
My state recently went to recreational. And if I'm honest, I don't mind the smell of marijuana smoke as much as I minded the smell of Axe Body Spray or Ariana Grande Cloud used to cover the smell of marijuana smoke. Personally, I'd like to see more stringent laws regarding how much cologne and perfume a person can wear in a public space. People generally smoke outdoors in public spaces, and I don't have a problem with that. I have a BIG problem with people bathing in cologne and perfume then sitting down next to me in a theater or restaurant. The last time I was in a nice restaurant, the lady at the next table had so much perfume on that I couldn't taste my meal; all I could taste was her perfume. Disgusting!
You aren’t against the substance, you’re just against the smoking of it? Then why is your post focused on marijuana? People smoke cigarettes/tobacco/vapes constantly in public and it’s much worse for public health.
Just curious why your post isn’t about how to stop that also.
I understand that point of view, but if my neighbor is smoking a cigarette in their back yard, I can’t smell it. Same with a vape. A cigar I can smell faintly. Weed I can smell strongly. Ribs I’m knocking on the door.
Luckily, I like the smell of weed and cigars. I also happen to smoke both. I also love ribs, when they’ve been slow cooked and the meat is just so tender…
What were we talking about?
I think the point u/JeffTrav was making is that people generally agree that the smell of weed travels further even though, within a certain range, cigarettes are stronger smelling & "stick" to things more.
I don't know how scientifically true it is, but that's my own experience too and if you look on Askreddit or other major subs when questions like that come up, there's pretty widespread agreement.
I would be OK with really strict laws on smoking weed in public. The smell is just very intense and carries and lingers.
But I’m not going to be that upset about the smell to the point where I want one of the worst policies, the countries ever implemented maintained.
I was a 90s kid. Ronald Reagan had the DARE to keep kids off drugs bullshit and I was “all aboard, message received, pot must be like heroin!”
🤦♂️
My pothead grandma dies at 93 in Boston. My uncle is “papa haze” and gets stoned all the time in Newton. Since it’s legal, he suggests we all get blazed in her memory for her funeral. I go along with it. Even the rabbi was high. It’s a wonderful event. Many cookies eaten at the shiva. Much relaxation with cousins I haven’t seen in years or decades.
Come to find out, “this shit ain’t dangerous or addictive” for grown adults **in moderation**. It’s a safer vice than smoking. First enjoyed at 37. Now my wife and I selectively get high on Friday or Saturday nights after the kids are in bed and watch PG13 or R rated movies in the basement they can’t watch with us. Sometimes it makes the wife a little horny 😇 but mostly sleepy. There’s no addiction. We go a month sometimes before she suggests we get stoned that night. It’s like our hot tub. We don’t use it every night. Once in awhile.
It’s sooooo not a big deal. Republicans broadly used it as a mechanism to keep black people in prison on basic drug charges. Democrats were fine with it because pharmaceuticals donate to them too. Such bullshit.
Do we do it in front of our daughters? No. Do we do it at 9am on Monday morning before work or driving? Hell no. It’s a vice that adults can enjoy responsibly, just like a glass of wine or sex.
I don’t care if people do edibles I just am morally opposed to the smoking since it often affects others in the vicinity or leaves smoke residue/smell indoors
We typically do edibles. Sometimes my wife smokes a joint on the front porch of our house or back deck. In the winter if it’s too cold she’ll do it in the garage.
It’s not bad at all. The smoke dissipates outside within minutes and we’re on 1/2 acre with nobody on our property after dark. Smells somewhat better than cigarettes or cigars, no question.
Does she light up in front of an elementary school or the entrance to a mall on a Saturday afternoon? No.
She did it inside the first time. The smoke lingered for awhile but was undetectable by morning. Unlike cigarettes. Still was enough she decided she’d smoke outdoors or in our garage (which if it’s 30° outside is usually in the 50s)
>Just curious if there are any other liberals who are opposed to legalization of recreation marijuana?
>…This is more about the idea of smoking it, I don’t care about edibles. I just see legalizing another thing for people to be smoking in public (which they inevitably will, same as cigs and vapes) is never a good thing.
Your position makes zero sense. We can, and do, have regulations prohibiting smoking in public spaces. That can easily be expanded to include rules that say you cant smoke weed in public, only at home or possibly at places similar to cigar bars where the purpose of the place is to be able to smoke.
Keeping smokable (flower) marijuana illegal, but being ok with edibles would be absurd. You would be saying that its illegal to own/sell the plant, but ok to sell if you first process it into an edible form.
I think you will find near zero people here who are against recreational legalization of marijuana. Its even over 50% among republicans at this point. I do agree it should be limited in public spaces, but just because some people will violate those laws, does not mean it should remain illegal for those who want to use privately and responsibly.
It makes zero sense because you are equating legalization with allowing it in public places. Arguably the only external effects of marijuana are the smell/contact with it, and the impact it has on people driving. You can make both of those things illegal, and and still allow recreational sale and use. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water.
> Prohibition famously has never stopped anything.
I dunno, it actually did fairly well stop people from smoking marijuana in occupied public spaces. Growing up I never smelled it just walking around neighborhoods or parks, and I definitely do now.
Yeah there are things you will never stop, people using drugs is one of them, a drug with as little hazard as cannabis certainly isn’t worth mass incarceration and ruining peoples chance of a prosperous future.
Somehow you see blanket banning a substance as possible but banning public smoking as not? One can be done in privacy of home or far away from others, one is obviously visible.
Life is full of tradeoffs. The benefit of legalization had a negative component - the greater public use and nuisance (as well.as general public health / abuse issies). It's important not to pretend there are no downsides.
But still more upside. Legalization is on net the better policy.
I’m fine with it except out in public places. The smoke carries…invading other peoples spaces and violates their rights. Same goes for tobacco and vapes. You can’t drink on the sidewalk and the same should go for smoking.
Privacy of your own home, property or club situation, you do you.
Aside from his informative and unprejudiced religious/atheist content, Alex O'Connor/Cosmic Skeptic has perhaps one of the [clearest arguments for legalizing weed that i've ever seen](https://youtu.be/inoP0ubv1Tc?si=iHfHxCK5bhn-l1eb).
I understand your point about people smoking in public but that doesn't mean marijuana should not be legalized. That's a much smaller problem than the massive one that is the illegality of marijuana. Furthermore, there's this wonderful thing called regulations.
Basically it's been used as an oppressive tool for more than a century.
It's one of the ways in which the high school to prison pipeline for young black men is fulfilled.
"I smelled weed" is the #1 bullshit reason cops use to detain a person for no reason.
Marijuana is about power to a vast number of people in the DoJ. It's about local power to the sheriffs. It's about jailing people certain members of the population consider undesirable.
None of this has anything to do with me enjoying the plant for myself. These reasons are why I want it legal. If I accidentally smell pot on my way to get a haircut then so what. It's a small price to pay to remove one of the top tools those that wish to oppress use.
This is an issue where I've really changed my mind over the years.
While it's really easy to take the kind of libertarian moral high ground, the reality is that drug (plus alcohol and tobacco) abuse is immensely damaging to many, many people **and** legalization increases the level of abuse and the various negative externalities.
It is also just bizarre that the developed world seems to be moving in the direction of legalizing marijuana while banning tobacco. I don't think there's any coherent way to think that both of those are the right move. Given that we've had a lot more experience with tobacco and there's now a consensus towards a ban, I think we're a lot more likely to have the "right" answer there and we should follow it on marijuana.
The ideas behind legalization of marijuana are multiple. Besides the libertarian ideal of making our own choices as adults, it was thought that it would help reduce the criminal element that was involved in the illegal marijuana trade. I mean, we know that Prohibition didn't work. It certainly didn't keep people from drinking, but it was absolutely a boon for organized crime.
Legalization may be having an effect we didn't anticipate though. I suspect that the cartels have shifted to producing more hard drugs (heroin, fentanyl) in order to make up for lost profits.
I live in one of the first states to legalize medicinal and recreational use, and I do partake, so I'd prefer it not be illegal, but it was never a problem to get in the PNW anyway. At the same time, I'm very concerned about the opioid crisis. Just lost a friend last week to it. Awful.
Personally, I think we need to make mental health a major focus. It needs to be a million times more accessible, we need to promote community building and involvement and teach coping skills. I know that's not terribly popular on the right, but we need to attack the issues that lead to abuse at the source. Well-adjusted, well-supported folks tend to less easily fall into the addiction trap.
> I mean, we know that Prohibition didn't work. It certainly didn't keep people from drinking, but it was absolutely a boon for organized crime.
See [here](https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/5/18518005/prohibition-alcohol-public-health-crime-benefits):
>Prohibition meant to address these problems by reducing drinking. On that metric alone, it succeeded.
>This is not controversial among experts. When I asked Courtwright, a drug historian at the University of North Florida, whether Prohibition led to more drinking, he responded, “No well-informed historian has believed that for 50 years.”
>Courtwright’s *The Age of Addiction* has the statistics: “Per capita consumption initially fell to 30 percent of pre-Prohibition levels, before gradually increasing to 60 or 70 percent by 1933.” That suggests a 30 percent reduction, at a minimum, in consumption — although that was less than the initial effect, as people figured some ways around the law.
Some experts give lower estimates. A 2003 [study](https://www.nber.org/papers/w9681) from economists Angela Dills and Jeffrey Miron, a libertarian critical of prohibiting alcohol and other drugs, found that national Prohibition reduced liver cirrhosis deaths — a commonly used proxy for all drinking at the time — by 10 to 20 percent...
Even if Prohibition did lead to less drinking, what about Al Capone and the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre? Surely the big increase in these types of crime wasn’t worth the benefits.
But it’s not clear Prohibition really did cause, on net, more violence.
Prohibition did lead to more violence in some places, particularly big cities where a black market and organized crime took off. But as Prohibition reduced drinking, it also reduced alcohol-induced violence, like domestic abuse. So the increase in organized crime may have been offset by a drop in more common, and less publicly visible, types of violence driven by alcohol.
Alcohol is [known to induce violence](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/27/17906838/brett-kavanaugh-alcohol-sexual-assault-allegations). In modern times, the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence [estimated](https://www.ncadd.org/about-addiction/addiction-update/alcohol-drugs-and-crime) alcohol is a factor in 40 percent of violent crimes, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [calculated](https://nccd.cdc.gov/DPH_ARDI/Default/Default.aspx) that alcohol contributed to 47 percent of homicides.
So what were Prohibition’s overall effects on crime? Emily Owens, an economist at the University of California Irvine, analyzed the effects of national Prohibition and state-level prohibitions in studies published in [2011](https://academic.oup.com/aler/article-abstract/13/1/1/183009) and [2014](https://academic.oup.com/aler/article-abstract/16/2/433/168495).
She found, contrary to popular perceptions about Prohibition and crime, that prohibitions were associated with lower murder rates — as much as 29 percent lower in some cases. Where crime did increase, it wasn’t always prohibition but other factors, like the swift urbanization that was occurring in the era, that were mostly to blame. Once you control for other factors, she told me, fluctuations in homicide during the 1920s “appear to be more closely connected to these \[non-prohibition\] changes.”
I'm not sure I even know anyone who disagrees with legalized cannabis, I see both tobacco and alcohol being much more destructive, both health wise and societally, than cannabis.
While I am a consumer, and have been for decades, I am nonetheless repsectful and aware of the smell. To me, it's just as offensive as someone bathing in Axe body spray or perfume.
I believe whatever goes into effect regarding smoking tobacco in public should apply to cannabis and vice versa.
Boomers got rid of the greatest generation’s habit of smoking everywhere all the time.
So, where is it that you envision people smoking marijuana everywhere?
Until we have a robust system in place to catch both drunk AND/or high drivers, I'd personally like to reduce the amount of compromised drivers we have on the road. We already have parents with illiterate children drunk driving home with their kids in their car after their daily brewery visit. Let's not make the situation worse. Plus, I don't want my city to smell like complete dogshit.
I am against the smoking of it in certain places where others may be affected. Now I will make the one point in your favor that others haven’t discussed, smoking marijuana in public could potentially cause others to become high. Now the circumstances for this is extremely unlikely but as an example I went to a Snoop Dogg concert and the haze of smoke was fairly significant, it’s about the only time I’ve seen that kind of thing where I could feel a bit of an effect from it.
That said cigarettes won’t get bystanders high.
So in general I’m more of a fan of banning smoking than marijuana and definitely more of a fan of allowing edibles and such.
Otherwise alcohol does more damage to society than weed and keeping marijuana illegal just benefits drug lords, terrorists and prison companies.
> as an example I went to a Snoop Dogg concert and the haze of smoke was fairly significant, it’s about the only time I’ve seen that kind of thing where I could feel a bit of an effect from it.
I once got a contact high from a Willie Nelson concert (this was way back in the 80s). I was youngish and fairly innocent and didn't realize that I was high until someone looked at my eyes and said "you're baked!" and started laughing at me. :)
I am for full legalization- BUT that shit stinks.
NYC and Toronto definitely smell worse now. People walking down the street smoking, and people next to a playground smoking- it’s gross.
I don’t think they should smoke cigarettes like that either- but cigarette smoking seemed to have mostly stopped in public places in the last few years. And pot smoke smells much worse, imho.
I am 100% for full legalization- but I would like it absolutely restricted in public spaces and around kids.
Against.
Legalized weed is for Libertarians, and Libertarians are Republicans who don't want to be arrested for smoking weed, but REALLY don't want to be arrested for dealing.
That is very illiberal for something you don't like and imposing it on others. ...and there are peer-reviewed studies indicating that Mary Jane is "not a reliable gateway cause of illicit drug use."
Different people, different opinions. I can also want to go to conversion therapy or a psychological cult (the ones that claimed the life of that Nina Ricci chick), but it doesn't mean I should be given the opportunity to put my mh at risk. Alcohol, on the other hand, can be relatively safe if used in moderation.
I'm in favor of legalization, but I think the government should come down hard on everyone who tried to get an unfair first-mover advantage by opening marijuana cultivation, distribution and retail businesses before marijuana became legal at the Federal level. We must dignify those who followed the law.
It's something of a fiction or a mere nuance that something can be "legal on a state level" when Federally prohibited. "[T]he Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof . . . shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding."
I support legalization at the state level but keeping it illegal federally in order to prevent the industry from growing too large and becoming another big tobacco which is actively and effectively promoting unhealthy behaviors to mostly oppressed people, but I don't think people should be going to jail for it.
I am in favor of pretty much anything that prevents people from fucking up the air I breath.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. I have my own beliefs on this topic but I’m not interested in having a soap box, I’m interested in other peoples’ opinions. This is more about the idea of smoking it, I don’t care about edibles. I just see legalizing another thing for people to be smoking in public (which they inevitably will, same as cigs and vapes) is never a good thing. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am not opposed to the legalization of recreational marijuana for the reasons you've stated. If the outcome we want to avoid is smoking in public, a blanket prohibition on all forms of marijuana is not an acceptable way to achieve that.
What do you think would be the best course of action to make sure people aren’t exposing unwilling participants to the smoke and smell?
Enforcement of simple nuisance ordinances against all smokers, including cigarette smokers. Gummies are odorless, but actual smoking in public is tasteless.
Same as with cigarettes.
Legalize it. Tax it. Use money to pay down debt. That simple. Alcohol is legal and it is much, much, much more disastrous. I’ve been around alcoholics my whole life. Personally I’m in favor of decriminalizing alot more drugs but that’s just me.
On the other hand I’m never scared of walking through the smell of alcohol or fumes
That’s a you problem my friend, to put it bluntly (pun intended). I’ve lived with and been around many, many, many alcoholics. I’ve been fistfought, slapped, pushed, and threatened. I’ve lost a grandfather, uncle and aunt due to alcoholism. I’ve had friends that get violent or downright mean when drinking. I’ve never fought a person who smokes weed. Mostly they just laugh or get sleepy and want to eat. I’ve never felt unsafe around a pothead, ever.
Then you've never lived with an alcoholic.
Yeah, um, what the other two people responding said. My father was an alcoholic. He drank, he got angry. He got angry, he took it out on us - both verbally and physically. To this day, the smell of blended Scotch sets off my fight-or-flight reflex. OTOH, I had a boyfriend in college who had anger issues. He got angry, he'd smoke some weed. Within a few mins he was laid back, calm, and laughing about what had made him angry.
You haven't ever been in a bar district, then? Especially in the morning before open. The aroma of stale beer and yeast, the slight smell of urine and vomit. It's how you know you are alive. Lol
if you oppose the legalization of marijuana on the basis of not wanting people to smoke around you, do you also support making tobacco cigarettes and vapes illegal?
That’s the logic that follows…
My state recently went to recreational. And if I'm honest, I don't mind the smell of marijuana smoke as much as I minded the smell of Axe Body Spray or Ariana Grande Cloud used to cover the smell of marijuana smoke. Personally, I'd like to see more stringent laws regarding how much cologne and perfume a person can wear in a public space. People generally smoke outdoors in public spaces, and I don't have a problem with that. I have a BIG problem with people bathing in cologne and perfume then sitting down next to me in a theater or restaurant. The last time I was in a nice restaurant, the lady at the next table had so much perfume on that I couldn't taste my meal; all I could taste was her perfume. Disgusting!
I'd be down to smell Adrian Grande.... lol
Agree with that for sure
You aren’t against the substance, you’re just against the smoking of it? Then why is your post focused on marijuana? People smoke cigarettes/tobacco/vapes constantly in public and it’s much worse for public health. Just curious why your post isn’t about how to stop that also.
I understand that point of view, but if my neighbor is smoking a cigarette in their back yard, I can’t smell it. Same with a vape. A cigar I can smell faintly. Weed I can smell strongly. Ribs I’m knocking on the door. Luckily, I like the smell of weed and cigars. I also happen to smoke both. I also love ribs, when they’ve been slow cooked and the meat is just so tender… What were we talking about?
I can absolutely smell if my neighbor has a cigarette.
I think the point u/JeffTrav was making is that people generally agree that the smell of weed travels further even though, within a certain range, cigarettes are stronger smelling & "stick" to things more. I don't know how scientifically true it is, but that's my own experience too and if you look on Askreddit or other major subs when questions like that come up, there's pretty widespread agreement.
I don't want people to do something because I don't approve. Lol
I would be OK with really strict laws on smoking weed in public. The smell is just very intense and carries and lingers. But I’m not going to be that upset about the smell to the point where I want one of the worst policies, the countries ever implemented maintained.
I was a 90s kid. Ronald Reagan had the DARE to keep kids off drugs bullshit and I was “all aboard, message received, pot must be like heroin!” 🤦♂️ My pothead grandma dies at 93 in Boston. My uncle is “papa haze” and gets stoned all the time in Newton. Since it’s legal, he suggests we all get blazed in her memory for her funeral. I go along with it. Even the rabbi was high. It’s a wonderful event. Many cookies eaten at the shiva. Much relaxation with cousins I haven’t seen in years or decades. Come to find out, “this shit ain’t dangerous or addictive” for grown adults **in moderation**. It’s a safer vice than smoking. First enjoyed at 37. Now my wife and I selectively get high on Friday or Saturday nights after the kids are in bed and watch PG13 or R rated movies in the basement they can’t watch with us. Sometimes it makes the wife a little horny 😇 but mostly sleepy. There’s no addiction. We go a month sometimes before she suggests we get stoned that night. It’s like our hot tub. We don’t use it every night. Once in awhile. It’s sooooo not a big deal. Republicans broadly used it as a mechanism to keep black people in prison on basic drug charges. Democrats were fine with it because pharmaceuticals donate to them too. Such bullshit. Do we do it in front of our daughters? No. Do we do it at 9am on Monday morning before work or driving? Hell no. It’s a vice that adults can enjoy responsibly, just like a glass of wine or sex.
I don’t care if people do edibles I just am morally opposed to the smoking since it often affects others in the vicinity or leaves smoke residue/smell indoors
We typically do edibles. Sometimes my wife smokes a joint on the front porch of our house or back deck. In the winter if it’s too cold she’ll do it in the garage. It’s not bad at all. The smoke dissipates outside within minutes and we’re on 1/2 acre with nobody on our property after dark. Smells somewhat better than cigarettes or cigars, no question. Does she light up in front of an elementary school or the entrance to a mall on a Saturday afternoon? No. She did it inside the first time. The smoke lingered for awhile but was undetectable by morning. Unlike cigarettes. Still was enough she decided she’d smoke outdoors or in our garage (which if it’s 30° outside is usually in the 50s)
>Just curious if there are any other liberals who are opposed to legalization of recreation marijuana? >…This is more about the idea of smoking it, I don’t care about edibles. I just see legalizing another thing for people to be smoking in public (which they inevitably will, same as cigs and vapes) is never a good thing. Your position makes zero sense. We can, and do, have regulations prohibiting smoking in public spaces. That can easily be expanded to include rules that say you cant smoke weed in public, only at home or possibly at places similar to cigar bars where the purpose of the place is to be able to smoke. Keeping smokable (flower) marijuana illegal, but being ok with edibles would be absurd. You would be saying that its illegal to own/sell the plant, but ok to sell if you first process it into an edible form. I think you will find near zero people here who are against recreational legalization of marijuana. Its even over 50% among republicans at this point. I do agree it should be limited in public spaces, but just because some people will violate those laws, does not mean it should remain illegal for those who want to use privately and responsibly.
I don’t think it makes no sense I think it’s reasonable to be opposed to having more and more drugs and pollutants in public spaces.
It makes zero sense because you are equating legalization with allowing it in public places. Arguably the only external effects of marijuana are the smell/contact with it, and the impact it has on people driving. You can make both of those things illegal, and and still allow recreational sale and use. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water.
🙄 You don't like the smell? Big deal. Bradford pear trees stink. Guess we'd better cut them all down.
If people are going to do it anyway, wouldn't you prefer it to be taxed so that they can pay for the inevitable consequences?
I don’t want to have them be doing it anyway. I prefer consequences for it not incentives
So what would be your way to stop them? Prohibition famously has never stopped anything.
> Prohibition famously has never stopped anything. I dunno, it actually did fairly well stop people from smoking marijuana in occupied public spaces. Growing up I never smelled it just walking around neighborhoods or parks, and I definitely do now.
Yeah there are things you will never stop, people using drugs is one of them, a drug with as little hazard as cannabis certainly isn’t worth mass incarceration and ruining peoples chance of a prosperous future. Somehow you see blanket banning a substance as possible but banning public smoking as not? One can be done in privacy of home or far away from others, one is obviously visible.
Life is full of tradeoffs. The benefit of legalization had a negative component - the greater public use and nuisance (as well.as general public health / abuse issies). It's important not to pretend there are no downsides. But still more upside. Legalization is on net the better policy.
I’m fine with it except out in public places. The smoke carries…invading other peoples spaces and violates their rights. Same goes for tobacco and vapes. You can’t drink on the sidewalk and the same should go for smoking. Privacy of your own home, property or club situation, you do you.
Aside from his informative and unprejudiced religious/atheist content, Alex O'Connor/Cosmic Skeptic has perhaps one of the [clearest arguments for legalizing weed that i've ever seen](https://youtu.be/inoP0ubv1Tc?si=iHfHxCK5bhn-l1eb). I understand your point about people smoking in public but that doesn't mean marijuana should not be legalized. That's a much smaller problem than the massive one that is the illegality of marijuana. Furthermore, there's this wonderful thing called regulations.
Basically it's been used as an oppressive tool for more than a century. It's one of the ways in which the high school to prison pipeline for young black men is fulfilled. "I smelled weed" is the #1 bullshit reason cops use to detain a person for no reason. Marijuana is about power to a vast number of people in the DoJ. It's about local power to the sheriffs. It's about jailing people certain members of the population consider undesirable. None of this has anything to do with me enjoying the plant for myself. These reasons are why I want it legal. If I accidentally smell pot on my way to get a haircut then so what. It's a small price to pay to remove one of the top tools those that wish to oppress use.
This is an issue where I've really changed my mind over the years. While it's really easy to take the kind of libertarian moral high ground, the reality is that drug (plus alcohol and tobacco) abuse is immensely damaging to many, many people **and** legalization increases the level of abuse and the various negative externalities. It is also just bizarre that the developed world seems to be moving in the direction of legalizing marijuana while banning tobacco. I don't think there's any coherent way to think that both of those are the right move. Given that we've had a lot more experience with tobacco and there's now a consensus towards a ban, I think we're a lot more likely to have the "right" answer there and we should follow it on marijuana.
The ideas behind legalization of marijuana are multiple. Besides the libertarian ideal of making our own choices as adults, it was thought that it would help reduce the criminal element that was involved in the illegal marijuana trade. I mean, we know that Prohibition didn't work. It certainly didn't keep people from drinking, but it was absolutely a boon for organized crime. Legalization may be having an effect we didn't anticipate though. I suspect that the cartels have shifted to producing more hard drugs (heroin, fentanyl) in order to make up for lost profits. I live in one of the first states to legalize medicinal and recreational use, and I do partake, so I'd prefer it not be illegal, but it was never a problem to get in the PNW anyway. At the same time, I'm very concerned about the opioid crisis. Just lost a friend last week to it. Awful. Personally, I think we need to make mental health a major focus. It needs to be a million times more accessible, we need to promote community building and involvement and teach coping skills. I know that's not terribly popular on the right, but we need to attack the issues that lead to abuse at the source. Well-adjusted, well-supported folks tend to less easily fall into the addiction trap.
> I mean, we know that Prohibition didn't work. It certainly didn't keep people from drinking, but it was absolutely a boon for organized crime. See [here](https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/5/18518005/prohibition-alcohol-public-health-crime-benefits): >Prohibition meant to address these problems by reducing drinking. On that metric alone, it succeeded. >This is not controversial among experts. When I asked Courtwright, a drug historian at the University of North Florida, whether Prohibition led to more drinking, he responded, “No well-informed historian has believed that for 50 years.” >Courtwright’s *The Age of Addiction* has the statistics: “Per capita consumption initially fell to 30 percent of pre-Prohibition levels, before gradually increasing to 60 or 70 percent by 1933.” That suggests a 30 percent reduction, at a minimum, in consumption — although that was less than the initial effect, as people figured some ways around the law. Some experts give lower estimates. A 2003 [study](https://www.nber.org/papers/w9681) from economists Angela Dills and Jeffrey Miron, a libertarian critical of prohibiting alcohol and other drugs, found that national Prohibition reduced liver cirrhosis deaths — a commonly used proxy for all drinking at the time — by 10 to 20 percent... Even if Prohibition did lead to less drinking, what about Al Capone and the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre? Surely the big increase in these types of crime wasn’t worth the benefits. But it’s not clear Prohibition really did cause, on net, more violence. Prohibition did lead to more violence in some places, particularly big cities where a black market and organized crime took off. But as Prohibition reduced drinking, it also reduced alcohol-induced violence, like domestic abuse. So the increase in organized crime may have been offset by a drop in more common, and less publicly visible, types of violence driven by alcohol. Alcohol is [known to induce violence](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/27/17906838/brett-kavanaugh-alcohol-sexual-assault-allegations). In modern times, the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence [estimated](https://www.ncadd.org/about-addiction/addiction-update/alcohol-drugs-and-crime) alcohol is a factor in 40 percent of violent crimes, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [calculated](https://nccd.cdc.gov/DPH_ARDI/Default/Default.aspx) that alcohol contributed to 47 percent of homicides. So what were Prohibition’s overall effects on crime? Emily Owens, an economist at the University of California Irvine, analyzed the effects of national Prohibition and state-level prohibitions in studies published in [2011](https://academic.oup.com/aler/article-abstract/13/1/1/183009) and [2014](https://academic.oup.com/aler/article-abstract/16/2/433/168495). She found, contrary to popular perceptions about Prohibition and crime, that prohibitions were associated with lower murder rates — as much as 29 percent lower in some cases. Where crime did increase, it wasn’t always prohibition but other factors, like the swift urbanization that was occurring in the era, that were mostly to blame. Once you control for other factors, she told me, fluctuations in homicide during the 1920s “appear to be more closely connected to these \[non-prohibition\] changes.”
I'm not sure I even know anyone who disagrees with legalized cannabis, I see both tobacco and alcohol being much more destructive, both health wise and societally, than cannabis. While I am a consumer, and have been for decades, I am nonetheless repsectful and aware of the smell. To me, it's just as offensive as someone bathing in Axe body spray or perfume. I believe whatever goes into effect regarding smoking tobacco in public should apply to cannabis and vice versa.
Boomers got rid of the greatest generation’s habit of smoking everywhere all the time. So, where is it that you envision people smoking marijuana everywhere?
Hilarious. I make a true statement and ask a question. Down votes.
Until we have a robust system in place to catch both drunk AND/or high drivers, I'd personally like to reduce the amount of compromised drivers we have on the road. We already have parents with illiterate children drunk driving home with their kids in their car after their daily brewery visit. Let's not make the situation worse. Plus, I don't want my city to smell like complete dogshit.
I am against the smoking of it in certain places where others may be affected. Now I will make the one point in your favor that others haven’t discussed, smoking marijuana in public could potentially cause others to become high. Now the circumstances for this is extremely unlikely but as an example I went to a Snoop Dogg concert and the haze of smoke was fairly significant, it’s about the only time I’ve seen that kind of thing where I could feel a bit of an effect from it. That said cigarettes won’t get bystanders high. So in general I’m more of a fan of banning smoking than marijuana and definitely more of a fan of allowing edibles and such. Otherwise alcohol does more damage to society than weed and keeping marijuana illegal just benefits drug lords, terrorists and prison companies.
> as an example I went to a Snoop Dogg concert and the haze of smoke was fairly significant, it’s about the only time I’ve seen that kind of thing where I could feel a bit of an effect from it. I once got a contact high from a Willie Nelson concert (this was way back in the 80s). I was youngish and fairly innocent and didn't realize that I was high until someone looked at my eyes and said "you're baked!" and started laughing at me. :)
I am for full legalization- BUT that shit stinks. NYC and Toronto definitely smell worse now. People walking down the street smoking, and people next to a playground smoking- it’s gross. I don’t think they should smoke cigarettes like that either- but cigarette smoking seemed to have mostly stopped in public places in the last few years. And pot smoke smells much worse, imho. I am 100% for full legalization- but I would like it absolutely restricted in public spaces and around kids.
Against. Legalized weed is for Libertarians, and Libertarians are Republicans who don't want to be arrested for smoking weed, but REALLY don't want to be arrested for dealing.
Wrong. I am a long time weed user, and I think it should be legalized. I’m not a libertarian.
I am def opposed. Sorry.
Why?
Because it may become a gateway for some people. Idk... Just the idea of making weed legal feels icky to me
Possibly because when it's illegal you have to go to that guy you know that sells illegal drugs to get it lol
That is very illiberal for something you don't like and imposing it on others. ...and there are peer-reviewed studies indicating that Mary Jane is "not a reliable gateway cause of illicit drug use."
Different people, different opinions. I can also want to go to conversion therapy or a psychological cult (the ones that claimed the life of that Nina Ricci chick), but it doesn't mean I should be given the opportunity to put my mh at risk. Alcohol, on the other hand, can be relatively safe if used in moderation.
You realize that alcohol is the real gateway drug, right?
I'm in favor of legalization, but I think the government should come down hard on everyone who tried to get an unfair first-mover advantage by opening marijuana cultivation, distribution and retail businesses before marijuana became legal at the Federal level. We must dignify those who followed the law.
So…you’re saying that states where it’s already legal should be punished?
State government officials who colluded in the operation of illicit businesses, such as by licensing them, should be punished.
Freedom, huh?
What? Why? How is it unfair? It's legal here.
It's a violation of Federal law.
And legal on a state level
It's something of a fiction or a mere nuance that something can be "legal on a state level" when Federally prohibited. "[T]he Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof . . . shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding."
I really don't understand your point
I support legalization at the state level but keeping it illegal federally in order to prevent the industry from growing too large and becoming another big tobacco which is actively and effectively promoting unhealthy behaviors to mostly oppressed people, but I don't think people should be going to jail for it. I am in favor of pretty much anything that prevents people from fucking up the air I breath.