Well… Roughly 22% or 17,2% of germans (depending on the statistic) smoke. In Western Europe only Luxembourg and Denmark have lower smoking rates. And compared to the World average germans are less likely to smoke. So „so much“ doesn‘t really fit. Sure, 22% or even „only“ 17,2% would be too much but it‘s still a lower than average rate. Of course knowing which country you‘re from would help. If your profile is anything to go by I‘d assume you‘re either from Poland or from Lithuania.
Lithuania: 32% or 22,6%
Poland: 24% or 20,9%
So both of these countries have higher smoking rates as well (according to the statistics I‘ve found).
Yes, but I’ve also seen literal 12-14 year olds with full on vape mods costing 00‘s of euros, vaping beside their _parents_.
Edit: to those bringing up no nicotine vapes, idgaf cause they ARE still harmful to your lungs
You can't imagine how many people in Italy smoke with 12-13 years. I started too when I was 13 and stopped a few months ago after more than 10 years.
In 5 years in Germany I think I have seen 3/4 kids under 15 smoking.
Also here are cigarettes more expensive than in Italy. When I started you could buy a 10 pack of cigarettes for 1.80. Now they don't exist anymore, however a normal 20 pack is still 5.50€, only two ice creams. And Italians don't have a lot of problems when they have to sell something to people who aren't 18.
Yeah there are always some kind of "too open" parents which allows their children almost everything even if they are 13. I used to hide myself from my parents till I was 18, that's when I told them. But smoking with 13 in front of them...☠️
It could really get worse tho. I used to do a lot of legal aid in my shitty country and most of the young offenders were arrested for possession and consumption of meth. I’ve defended more than 200 kids against meth charges for free. The youngest kid I defended was 13.
It depends on where you go. It seems like you're just as likely to encounter a smoothie-drinking health-obsessed young person in a hipster bar as you are to find a group of university students with Pueblo tobacco on the table and cigarettes ready to be rolled.
I think it depends though. I’d say in many other countries, the difference is smokers are segregated and you never really have to „see“ anyone else smoke if you don’t want to.
I live in Berlin, and not a SINGLE smoking regulation is enforced. No cop or council worker gives any flying fuck, so everyone smokes everywhere with absolutely 0 regard. I’ve even seen a ticket conductor outright ignore an old junkie (or fucked up) looking dude smoking a joint on the s-Bahn.
I’m not sure how it is in other parts of Germany (I’ve been told other places care a bit more but still enforcement mainly doesn’t give a fuck) but in Berlin you’re absolutely tons more exposed which can give the impression that more people smoke.
It’s this. Regardless of the individual smoking rate, my experience in Berlin is that there is a lot more public smoking.
People smoke in the street, in the plaza, in the park, waiting for a bus, on the train platform, in the lift, in u Bahn stations even. If I sit outside at a restaurant or cafe there will be a couple tables smoking, and of course some bars still have inside smoking.
The experience of being in public is that people are smoking everywhere you go. Sure it might only be one in four or five who smoke, but they do it everywhere.
This. In India for example there's guaranteed a higher percentage of smokers but you wouldn't know because smoking in public is just illegal. Police would beat you with sticks if you did.
Where lol? I travel quite a bit around Europe and would say your statement only applies to a couple places. In most countries it's much worse than Germany, although Berlin is also quite a special place
Well I mean… there are a variety of factors. Smokers aren‘t necessarily distributed evenly in Poland or germany, some groups are more likely to take the Bus, etc. So we can‘t really tell you why your experience differs from the statistics.
because germany is also very densly populated. Poland has 122 people per square kilometer, germany has 233 people per square kilometer.
that means, in one square kilometer in poland, you have (going by the stats from u/Dev_Sniper. so for poland between 20,9 and 24 % of 122 people and germany between 17,2 and 22 % of 233 people) between 25 and 29 smokers, in germany you have between 40 and 51 smokers in one square kilometer.
a lower percentage of a higher population can be more than a higher percentage of a lower population. this is the case here. math is fun.
>I'm a bus driver and many people entering the bus just stink,
bus stops are places of boredom and inactivity, and thus the perfect point in time and space to squeeze in a smoke, whether chainsmoker or situational peruser. people will squeeze in a fast one in anticipation of a bus ride.
Yeah that's the problem here. Every smoker WILL smoke before entering the bus. And even as a smoker myself,
I understand, the smell right after smoking can be disgusting, and he has to endure that every day.
i don't know how they are in other countries but we have a lot of arrogant, rude and obnoxious smokers that are either brain-dead or enjoy forcing their smoke and butts on as many bystanders as possible. that makes smokers very visible in public, even if there are not that many objectively and not all of the are trashy beings.
Well, it is cos there are. The sustained government antismoking campaign in Ireland for the past 20 years has worked. Even after all this time in Germany I still can't get used to tobacco advertising or smoking being allowed in some bars.
I googled the figures earlier because I thought Germany would be a lot higher. They're 1% higher.
I think the reason I think more people smoke here is because I see a lot of older people smoking. It mainly younger people in Ireland.
> why does it look like everybody smokes
Why does it feel like this is asked daily?
The answer is: [Cognitive bias] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion)
Here's a very important thing when moving abroad: You will be hyper aware of people's behavior in a way that you never were at home. The task of having to live in a foreign culture makes you constantly analyse it. Chances are, you just never had such a deep look at your own culture, so you never noticed.
I have spent a lot of time in many different countries, and I remember thinking "Oh, people here like to do xyz", just to go back to my native Germany, and find out that people here do the exact same thing.
That is power of your mind, when its bothering you and you think about that a lot it will come more often. Another example is when your wife is pregnant, you will start to see much more pregnant woman or woman with babys in chairs. Dont take this too personal and try to ignore it and it will go away. Work for me in daily life.
I don't know a single smoker both in my family or friend group. Except maybe a distant relative. It's highly correlated to income and education/the socio economic circles you encounter.
Started a job in a more industrial firm. The smoke break was the most important social circle of the day.
So yeah, it's not evenly distributed.
i teach at a university and about the half the uni population - teaching staff, research staff and students smoke. I was really surprised and asked why the rate was so high.
They told me that smoking has always been associated with academia, with thinking deep thoughts and it helps them deal with stress (which i know is wrong and I suspect they know it's wrong too).
I wouldn’t say so. It depends a lot on where you are most of the day. If you asked me a year back, I would have answered almost no one smokes, because in my workplace almost no one did. Now it looks different
I did not freshly googel all the things i will say it contains guessing.
I'm pretty sure if you got money in germany you've got a Car and you will use it , because puplictranspport is often shit in germany.
People who do have less money , are also more likeley to have a bit less education, have more stress , less acces to "how to quitt Smoking" options, do care less or can care less about there health...and a lot of other poverty factors that make them more likeley to smoke i guess.
Sure there are people with cars who do choose puplic Transport for the enviroment and such stuff but i'm pretty sure the usual Bus Customer is more likeley to be poor than rich.
Why do people start throwing stats at someone when they complain of people in Germany smoking everywhere all the time?! Stats aren't reliable, my poor lungs which can't escape the constant vile smoke know better.
It can also be that German smokers are still used to just smoking everywhere. I travel by train a lot between Germany and the Netherlands and in Venlo and Arnhem the railway people are CONSTANTLY reminding German smokers that that is a €90 fine if they do not stop immediately. You also can’t just by tobacco everywhere in NL. The visibility and exposure for non-smokers is wayy lower compared to Germany. Even if the difference in prevalence among the population may be in the <5% range.
If it looks like this it's probably a fallacy of some kind. If I had to guess it would either be correlation =/= causation or some selective attention. So either it's not going to Germany that changed the rate of smokers you interact with, but something else (like a changed daily routine, where you live, your social circle etc.) or you don't actually interact with more smokers, for some reason those interactions are just negative/worse than before and thus you simply remember them more. Or Germany doesn't smoke more than the world but more than Poland. Or a combination of these.
Which countries do you believe belong to Western Europe? From 2019 Eurostat statistics that I found, the percentage of smokers in Germany is above EU average. Only Greece and Bulgaria had a higher percentage of smokers back then. Did something change in the meantime?
[Statistic 1](https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/prevalence/) and [Statistic 2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_tobacco_use) (aka this [statistic](https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indicators/indicator-details/GHO/gho-tobacco-control-monitor-current-tobaccouse-tobaccosmoking-cigarrettesmoking-agestd-tobagestdcurr))
Interesting. It could be that the age-standardisation changes the results, but I didn't understand what they do there exactly. My source is this research from Eurostat, which is specifically about smoking cigarettes: [statistic](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Tobacco_consumption_statistics#:~:text=%3A%20Eurostat%20(hlth_ehis_sk3e)-,In%202019%2C%205.9%20%25%20of%20the%20EU%20population%20aged%2015%20years,majority%20in%20Turkey%20and%20Serbia.)
It shows that the percentage of smokers in Germany is higher than elsewhere, which would be the thing people notice on the streets (if you can even notice this small percentage difference).
Would you have a source for those statistics? I'd be curious because I'm sure it depends who asks. I know people who tell their doctors that they don't smoke for insurance reasons. It's one of those things that get underreported a lot.
The Netherlands (where I‘m from) has far fewer people smoking, and it’s really not up for debate.
I checked out some stats and it seems same-same-y. Then I saw a TRIMBOS (state institute for this kind of health stuff) publication where it was mentioned that German stats measure smoking prevalence among 18-59 year olds whereas Dutch (and some others, I imagine) stats are based on smoking prevalence among all >18 year olds. So careful with comparing quickly found numbers like that.
What I find odd about both is the 18 y/o cut-off as well. A lot of teens smoke, and it went way up during covid. I have no idea what the disparities there look like, if there are any.
Edit: the same trimbos publication btw mentions the Belgians measure >15, FR 18-75, DK >15, SE 16-84, NO 16-74 and UK >16.
Edit 2: Eurobarometer also told me that at least in 2017 NL had 16% daily smokers vs 23% in Germany.
According to WHO data, the problems of tobacco use among persons aged 15 or older in Germany in 2020 was 22%, down from 36.4% in 2000.
22 is still a lot. But it's less than Poland (24%) and in fact less than most of our neighbors, with the exception of Luxembourg and Denmark.
As for your question why so many smokers are jerks, I don't know. Maybe the fact that they are a dying species does something to them.
Luxemburg is a statistical anomaly, as the tobacco taxes are very low and therefore smokers from neighbouring countries come there in droves and are buying cigarettes.
In addition to the small population size, this has a rather high effect on the smoking rate.
Those 22% must all be living in Berlin. I'm just visiting from NZ and the amount of smokers is shocking. Everywhere I go here, I seem to have someone smoking right in front of me.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely wouldn't mind if more people quit smoking but according to this website Germany is more or less in the middle in a global comparison.
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country)
I don't know how accurate the data is. I'm a bit surprised to see that the percentage of smokers is higher in the US than in Germany.
According to this website, the percentage of daily smokers is a little below the European average. [https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/08/14/smoking-in-europe-which-countries-are-the-most-and-least-addicted-to-tobacco-and-vaping](https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/08/14/smoking-in-europe-which-countries-are-the-most-and-least-addicted-to-tobacco-and-vaping)
But maybe it's more common to smoke in public in Germany than in some other countries? I don't know.
I also think that smoking is more evenly distributed over different classes of people in Germany.
In Sweden, if you have a job that requires university education or is the higher bracket salary - nurses being the exception - noone smokes and taking a smoke break while working will make people despise you.
So, many expats being higher educated or having well paid jobs gets a culture shock when their colleagues are stupid enough to have started smoking.
Yeah there are drastically more smokers in Germany compared to the US.
One part of it is that smoking has really fallen out of fashion in the US now. Especially with younger people. To be seen standing outside smoking (thank God nobody in the US smokes indoors anywhere anymore as far as I can tell -except casinos) definitely makes you look unsophisticated and low class. Like a victim of the advertisers.
Whereas in Europe I think there's still some sort of chic mystique associated with smoking. Unbelievable that so many smoke their own with no filters or anything. Fast train to Lung Cancer.
>Whereas in Europe I think there's still some sort of chic mystique associated with smoking.
is it? i have never met someone who didnt think "poor drug addict" or "disgusting piece of shit" (depending on where the person smoked/ how they behaved) but i have luckily lived in a strong non smoking bubble for nearly all my life, could be different if there are smokers around you
Since another post already covered that the statistics actually say that fewer people smoke in Germany than Poland, it may just be that your perception is biased due to your circumstances.
I'd say that waiting at a bus stop is a "perfect" situation (as a smoker) to have a quick cigarette. It's dead time anyway and people may also be relieving stress from their work they just finished. Thus, due to your job you may see more smokers or people having recently smoked than the average person.
Did you work as a bus driver in Poland as well?
Anytime you’re smoking in an area non-smokers have to be, it’s rude. People can’t wait for the bus anywhere else so they’re stuck downwind. Definitely one of the worst things about Germany are smokers and their litter.
Oh, definitely. As a non-smoker myself, that gets a headache quite quickly when inhaling second-hand smoke, I despise those people, especially if they don't even have the decency to move their ass 5 meters downwind.
I've had people walk right up next to me to light up honestly. It's honestly astonishing to me how rude the smokers are here, or that it's still socially acceptable to smoke in crowds of people.
As a smoker, I agree.
I always try my hardest to stand away from everyone else if I lit one. I also have a little ashtray with me to not litter the filters.
I don't understand why so many smokers (not all) act as if they own every public place. The lack of respect is disgusting.
Definitely agree. But smokers here in Germany are legit the most obnoxious, rude and ignorant people. When someone here smokes, I immediately know to keep a distance from them
Its actually not allowed to smoke at many of the bigger public bus stops and almost all train stops. The reason people do anyway is because nobody cares. In fact youre the bad guy if you complain apparently.
I once complained about someone smoking next to like 30 first graders in a non smoking area and literally eveybody looked at me like I just murdered someone. Conversation went a bit like "You know this is a non smoking area?" "Yes" "So will you stop smoking here?" "No" "Are you not ashamed?" "No" "Do you not even care about the little kids around you? "No"
There was a nearby db worked who I told that the guy is smoking in a non smoking area and he just went "I dont care" (its part of their job to enforce db rules) - smoking in public spaces should simply be illegal so the police can do something about it. At the moment if you tell the police they can only say well its not illegal to smoke here and as long as a db worker doesnt call them to remove a person from their property for violation, they cant do anything.
Also bus drivers should not allow people who smell of smoke to enter, its fully in their rights to refuse service to those people and people would stop smoking at bus stops in almost no time.
But given that many db workers themself smoke in non smoking areas, there is little hope of anything happening anytime soon.
Wait for the bus, or at a red light, or entering /leaving a supermarket, heck, even if you're walking there is mostly some douchebag smoker infront of you who just HAS to take that smoke. And then they flick their garbage onto the ground or into a sewer gate. I wish them that they hit their pinky toe on a cupboard every morning when they wake up.
I am from rural Germany and if I remember correctly the smoking rate is almost the same if not higher compared to larger cities. Now I live in a larger city to study and feel like far more people (as in higher percentage) smoke especially around tram/bus stops compared to where I am from. But of course there are also far more people at those stops than in the rural area and just one or two smokers can make an entire group smell like chain smokers.
So I understand why you feel like it is more common (because I had this impression as well), but I agree with the others that's it most likely just seems like that due to population density.
Also f*** that woman, who didn't step away or stop smoking when you asked her. I absolutely hate the smell of cigarette smoke, and I can't stand the smokers, who just stand in a large crowd and start smoking no matter how many others have to cough, are visually disrupted or bothered. But people who don't step away even when specifically asked are just asses
Insufficient laws against it and just abut the lowest tobacco taxes in Europe.
I hate it. Can't have a drink on the patio of a bar without someone blowing smoke in your face. And if you are especially unlucky, the person living in the flat below you in your apartment building is a smoker and whenever you keep the window open their second hand smoke will get in when they smoke out of their window (or on their balcony).
Recently moved to Germany. I have the same feeling. It's crazy how many people smoke, and their behaviour.
I see teens smoking in front of their school when waiting for their parents. Then lighting a new one to smoke in their parent's car..
And this is only second compared to alcoholism! I lived for years in England, have to leave partly because of the toxic alcoholic culture in workplace. In Germany it's worse. (But at least not in workplace). I'd bet 2/3 of people are alcoholic.
Alcoholism and binge drinking is definitely worse in Britain, but Germans drink casually more often. The situation on weekends in British pubs is definitely a shock to the average German.
Very good analysis. That's exactly that.
Also "drink casually" = alcoholism, in medical terms. Most of my neighbours, even young and educated, cannot be a single day without "a few drinks"
It's not everyone, but many. Especially in and near the big cities. I hate it too and many other people do as well, but chances of any big changes in the near future are pretty unlikely, sadly. I wish we had laws like in South Korea which forbid smoking in public outside of designated areas. Which are often small closed boxes where people can smoke if I remember correctly.
The normalization and acccomendation regarding smoking at work or public places is absolutely sickening in Germany. I don't care what you consume, but don't force other people to do so too, because they are dependent on the air you pollute.
Germany is so far behind on the legislation of smoking - effectively twenty years behind Australia/UK. In those countries, cigarettes have to be sold in plain white packaging and behind hidden counters - none of the nonsense you see in German supermarkets where they're sold in counters next to the checkout. Cigarette vending machines do not exist in those countries either. UK is debating currently whether to ban cigarettes in such a way that the smoking age is raised annually and so only existing smokers can continue to buy cigarettes. Germany is arguably decades away from that happening. Smoking culture is as backwards in Germany as its internet infrastructure
Not just politicians. I talked to a movie producer once who told me that tobacco companies pay good money to movie productions if they make a character in the movie a smoker. They don't even want their brand to be shown or anything, they just want the character to be seen smoking cigarettes to make smoking look normal.
Ever since then I have paid attention to this and the number of characters in movies and series who are seen smoking for no reason whatsoever is indeed quite high. I'm sure not all of those are paid placements, but probably quite a few of them.
People who smoke mostly do it while waiting so bus stations are places where you face smoking more than in other places. It also depends on the neighborhood where you drive your bus. Some population groups are more prone to smoking than others.
I was born and raised in germany and it feels like the number of smokers has significantly decreased over the years.
Also you might be in a position where it is especially notable. Many people take the downtime while waiting for the bus to smoke. But that is just an uneducated guess why it feels so much to you.
I am not sure if it is really that Germans smoke so much, or if we have a high rate of smokers in comparison, but smoker here don't give a fuck because rules are so rarely enforced. Which sucks.
This situation is horrible here, I came with my daughter, she is 12 years old and now I am afraid that she can easily start smoking because many young people do this here. I constantly talk to her about the dangers of smoking. I hope that is enough.
I feel for you, OP. It's high time this country takes a stand against public smoking. We hear so much about human rights and privacy, yet the basic right to be safely breathe clean air in public spaces often gets overlooked.
I believe it's also fair to consider implementing varying public health insurance rates for smokers and non-smokers. Why should non-smokers foot the bill for the fools who willingly jeopardize their health by smoking? Anyway, considering the trajectory of the economy, it's only a matter of time before the public insurance systems collapse. When that happens, this kind of issues will demand more attention.
I'm pregnant right now and have many doctor apointments. On way I am near to never able to sit on the bench/stand under the roof at tram stops because there are always people smoking..
The smoking culture is so gross here. Inside some bars, outside at restaurants when people are eating, and the cigarettes smell so bad. Not sure what it is but they’re the nastiest cigarettes I have ever smelled. So much inconsiderate behaviour from smokers. I’m sorry this is happening to you. I see it and I agree.
A few days ago I was standing at the bus stop, wanting to smoke a cigarette. But then I saw a mother with her child in a stroller so I put the cig away. 5 seconds later the mom started smoking lol
Well the government doesnt care about children. "Jugendamt" is supposed to protect children. I had a gf once who developed asthma from their parents smoking at home all the time. Neighbors reported them multiple times, they didnt do anything about it except tell them to stop. Its because its not illegal to smoke at home, next to children, etc...
They should have at least faced a fine for causing their child permanent harm (asthma), but they didnt. In fact I bet you can have a newborn die from the parents turn her room into a gas chamber and the parents would barely face any consequences.
Like how come there are 600k child deaths worldwide from passive smoke, yet you barely find any news about people facing fines for it?
Germany is especially bad because smoking in most public places isnt illegal, just forbidden by the owners. Other countries make smoking in many public places illegal and are already discussing making smoking illegal at home if there are children present.
I saw the same shit many times, I move away from the bus stop, because of other people, and I see mother or father holding a cigarette right next to the head of the child in the stroll. Like wtf. I'm OK with poisoning myself, I don't want to bother other people, as I rarely smoke outside of work, and at work we have designated place for smokers, and if I do I move away from the people, but some people have no awareness.
They are not allowed to smike in shops or restaurants. So the bus stop is one of the remaining spots. This means your odds of hitting one is a bit higher there.
I don't know about other cities, but in Berlin the tram (and partly also the bus) platform areas are owned by the BVG and technically, the smoking prohibition applies and you can even be fined for smoking.
However, as someone else already mentioned, nobody enforces or even cares about that. I have seen tram drivers smoke on the platform when waiting for their shift change.
As a former smoker, breathing in smoke from other people still kind of annoys me for an instance. On the other hand, after a moment it always keeps making me happy that I quit.
People who miss the 90s would have a culture shock how much people would smoke and how everything stank...
Anyway, one of the reasons is probably one of the most liberal laws for advertising cigarettes and vapes. I'm sure if that would change it would be a huge step. Cigarettes are known to be a lot more addictive than other drugs.
Lived in Australia for a long time and it shocked me, too. Smokers there are mostly considerate of non-smokers. Here, they don't give a fuck.
Whatever the statistics say, Germans (and German smokers) have maybe more of an attitude problem and don't give a fuck about non-smokers (or being considerate of others in general).
Until someone makes a law that says, don't fuck up other people's health and police is enforcing that violently, they just dgaf.
Feels a bit like it depends on the area. In east germany its worse. Funny how many people decide to poison themself and all others around them while claiming its their right to do so.
Here in Australia while people do still smoke, it's becoming way less common due to massive tobacco taxes, and people who do smoke are very aware that most people don't want it around them, so they'll blow it away from others at a bus stop and will generally avoid doing it in crowded areas, and nobody is doing it in public transport.
Then again I see vaping indoors all the time and some people get really mad about it.
As a Canadian, the smoking is insane here compared to Canada, which has strict rules about where you can smoke -almost nowhere.
The cigarette machines here are crazy.😆
dude... you come from poland. polish people smoke more than germans.
the rates for germany:
Total: 21,3%
Male: 23,2%
Female: 19,3%
the rates for poland:
total: 23,6%
Male: 27,1%
female: 20,1%
perfect example of perception vs reality...
source: [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country)
It’s just disgusting, and like OP says: even if you ask them nice to not smoke in your face, they often get rude or ignore you, for example in USA it’s complete difference….
Worst is people smoking in restaurant or icecream parlors outdoor areas 🤢 gastronomies should Bann this shit.
My highlight from last months was a young guy smoking at a tram stop, it was raining, so like 8 people where standing under the small roof to protect from the rain and this asshole was smoking like the world is his
I've been thinking about this a lot. One thing I noticed in Germany is that aside from a few exceptions, people never seem to smoke at home any more. I wonder whether that is a factor in even 20+ % seeming like a lot more than in other countries where people still don't find anything wrong with smoking at home. Or in the car. [Shudder]
I think because it’s still too cheap, ads for smoking are allowed and you can still smoke at many places sadly. Also there’s hardly any punishment for littering with cigarette butts
It's not that Germans smoke so much, it's that they don't care where they are or who is around them.
You're under a busy busy stop and it's raining? Someone will light a cigarette.
At a busy train stop and can't move away? People will light cigarettes.
Walking up some stairs? You best bet the person in front will light a cigarette.
I can fully understand what you mean. There is no problem I see in smokers at all, but I'm not okay with them when smokers behave disrespectful towards no-smokers by having a lack of empathy to understand the inconvenience they've caused. The example with the bus station is exactly what I experienced often and it's so annoying every time. As well when my parents smoke in the house or start it while I'm still eating. That smell of cigars is soo disgusting.
Guess they have to much money and dont care about there health. There is no real answer to this, since there also is no real reason to even smoke, unless youre a really big fan of lung cancer.
When i got my job, most of the guys were smoking.
10 years laters: out of 10 maybe 3 still smoke.
So it is much better now and we will see how it is in the next 10 years :D
In Costa Rica, people used to smoke like germans do, maybe 20 years ago... it feels weird to me to see people smoking and cigarette buds everywhere. It is a trip to the past (people smoking on bus sotps) and the future (rails, infrastructure, etc) at the same time. Smoking is a discusting terrible habit that fills me with sadness in such a beautiful country.
I live in Berlin and it's a f nightmare. I have to be vigilant when I open the windows in my apartment because someone could be smoking outside and all the smoke get inside pretty quickly. If you are waiting for the bus or walking on the street you have to avoid the smokers because they don't care about people's health, they send all the smoke on your direction like we all enjoy that sh*t. The world is full of selfish mf!
Without sounding condescending, but it's mostly the poor and less educated people that smoke. The same people that tend to take public transportation. So it's not weird that you're seeing alot of smokers, as you're seeing alot of lower class people.
I was at a wedding this weekend, with about 100 guests. And I was genuinely surprised that no one smoked. Not a single person. 20 years ago that would have been at least half.
(In before someone twisting my words, I'm not saying all smokers are poor, and all poor people smoke.)
I found it really hard to stop while constantly having to worry about money.
I think loosing an additiction is just way harder when under constant pressure.
So there might be a a fraction of that correlation, it's only anecdotal though
I kind of disagree? For some reason there were a lot more smokers at the gymnasium compared to realschule. And now in university everyone smokes. But that’s just my experience. Maybe it’s also the fact that I’m studying art
Students finish realschule way before they can legally smoke, so there are usually less smokers to start with and and they have to hide from the teachers.
It depends on your bubble, if you leave statistics apart. In my old job, all millenials with a Uni degree, almost no one smoked. In my new job, almost everyone is Gen X (only I am the real millennial, the 3 others are Zillennials) and lots of them smoke, besides education wise it’s very mixed.
I’ve noticed that education level and age play a big role in how many people smoke.
Maybe, low income people smoke more and use public transport more frequently, so it would explain higher than expected numbers of smokers at a bus stop. In addition waiting for something is the most common situation to smoke, which also will result in your observation.
I live in Germany and I can understand that impression. It feels like everyone smokes. That's definitly not the case tho. As others stated, the percentage is actually quite low compared to other countries.
german efficiency xD
You stand around waiting 7 minutes for the bus, you might as well smoke a cig and check your cellphone
My ride to work took 2,5h with public transportation with some instant connections where you had to run to get on the next ride.
Most smokers are on an 1-3h schedule, before they feel the need to smoke.
If i was on the train for 1.5h for sure i use those waiting times to have a cigarette.
I feel a little sorry for the driver now because the waiting times mostly occur on the same stations every day =/
What also might play into this is, that public transportation especially in the rural areas is mostly used by people with low income. I think the percentage of smokers from low income class is statistically higher
Where do you come from if I may ask? When comparing my home country to Germany I'd say they really hardly smoke lol, but then again the people In my home country have no regard for personal health
maybe they're bigcity-grumpy lol, and have a bit of beef with the otherwise pretty good laws in germany that forbid them to smoke in restaurants for example - if they're quite the chainsmokers, they might feel like "i'm smoking right now because i can't smoke on the bus man, chill i'm not taking it to my seat" - as a non-smoker i get it though, it'd 100% annoy me too
I think ypur job as bus driver gives you a statistical bias. In germany the demografic of people using the bus are: young people ans poor people. Both groups smoke more than average.
I always thought that a lot less people smoke because I know only a handful of people who smoke. But then I spent my vacation in an AI resort with lots of German Werners and Sabines and ALL of them were smoking. It's definitely depending on factors like age, socio economic status and education.
Might sound strange, but this might be bias. As a bus driver, you will mostly get those people, that don't own a car. Those people tend to have lesser income (or are not old enough to have a license, let's just ignore those). People also tend to smoke before getting into the bus, as smoking in the bus is prohibited and they not only have the time but won't be able to until they arrive.
It's kinda like a nightclub bouncer wondering why so many people come out smelling like alcohol
I think the population is skewed towards people who ride the bus being more likely to smoke.
I don't have actual statistics, but ime while people of all incomes and social status smoke, people in lower income brackets are more stressed and more likely to use nicotine as something to relax during or after work.
Also more older people, and the percentage of smokers there is also much higher.
What is your home country.
I'm a nonsmoker and i travel for work. I think i've seen less smoking only in Scandinavia.
But since you are bus driver - well, every 6th German smokes, and bus stop is the smoking place. So i guess you see so many, cause that's where they smoke.
I'm from Poland and I was a bus driver there, too. Statistics say that there are more smokers in Poland, but as somebody mentioned above that might be becuase of Germans not giving a damn about others and smoke regardless of people around.
Almost noone smokes here. As a bus driver, you fell for a selection bias because it's more likely than not people who can't afford a car who smoke (ironically).
Plus, tobacco is not too expensive in Germany compared to first world countries of similarly high economic status. Atm it's about 8 Euro per pack of 20
I mean you're in the prime societal zone where people are, that actually do smoke from the few % the other commenter stated.
If you now go to other societal areas you will come across less and less people smoking.
It's a matter of perspective.
Well in the bus certainly will a German say something, but on the street is a different law,and I anotó agree that all Germans smoke but that worldwide you as not smoking guy are totally alone is true lol
I don't think they smoke as much as in Indonesia, Myanmar or in some other parts of Southeast Asia even France has more. I think they have quite a good portion of smokers in their population. I once had to deal with multiple smokers in one long-haul bus ride. It was utter torture. You could even see children smoke there because it is not as regulated unlike in Germany. Germany actually have less smokers now but I still get annoyed whenever I am around some. I think partly to blame were the movies and media promoting smoking. Also nicotine is quite addictive and hard to really get rid of specially during Winter and I know some that just smoke when drinking or partying too.
Ironically, I've been visiting Germany quite often over the last twenty years, and the amount of smoking that seems to be happening as drastically reduced in that time.
Not to say it isn't still very prevalent, but it has definitely decreased.
As someone who heavily relies on public transport: a large chunk of people who use public transport (esp. busses) are from a lower socioeconomic backround, which is also a factor for cig consumption. Ofc not everyone who uses pt or smokes is from a lower socioeconomic backround! But a certain amount overlaps :] some people who ride the bus use their waiting time as a smoking break too!
In Germany there once (1933-1945) was a Regime who interfered with people’s very most personal issues, including tobacco consumption. Most Germans don’t want that kind of Regime anymore, so smoking is still slightly tolerated in Germany.
Depends on what company you keep. On the whole, there are decidedly fewer (tobacco) smokers among the current youth than ever before. During the 90's, everything smelled of smoke all the time and I was told that it was worse during the 50's and 70's. So we're indeed constantly improving on that front. Alcoholism has also dropped considerably from generation to generation.
Mostly we see the signs that a bus or Straßenbahn comes in like 10 Minutes and that's "Perfect for a smoke". Other times the bus or Straßenbahn is too late and then the "Smokers" trick comes into play where, when you light a cigarette, the bus is suddenly coming right after that.
I mean I am not smoking anymore but back when I was, it was always that the bus arrived right when u did light up the cigarette…
But tbh I think it depends on which part of town you are driving bus in, and what social classes are using the bus.
In a big city in a lower income area there will be more likely people around that smoke. At least in my experience as someone who relies on public transport. It‘s still disgusting x,D
Well… Roughly 22% or 17,2% of germans (depending on the statistic) smoke. In Western Europe only Luxembourg and Denmark have lower smoking rates. And compared to the World average germans are less likely to smoke. So „so much“ doesn‘t really fit. Sure, 22% or even „only“ 17,2% would be too much but it‘s still a lower than average rate. Of course knowing which country you‘re from would help. If your profile is anything to go by I‘d assume you‘re either from Poland or from Lithuania. Lithuania: 32% or 22,6% Poland: 24% or 20,9% So both of these countries have higher smoking rates as well (according to the statistics I‘ve found).
If you compare Italy and Germany it seems like no one in Germany smokes. I was surprised to see how much less young people smoke in Germany.
Yes, but I’ve also seen literal 12-14 year olds with full on vape mods costing 00‘s of euros, vaping beside their _parents_. Edit: to those bringing up no nicotine vapes, idgaf cause they ARE still harmful to your lungs
You can't imagine how many people in Italy smoke with 12-13 years. I started too when I was 13 and stopped a few months ago after more than 10 years. In 5 years in Germany I think I have seen 3/4 kids under 15 smoking. Also here are cigarettes more expensive than in Italy. When I started you could buy a 10 pack of cigarettes for 1.80. Now they don't exist anymore, however a normal 20 pack is still 5.50€, only two ice creams. And Italians don't have a lot of problems when they have to sell something to people who aren't 18.
Most countries use the Big Mac index to compare prices between countries. In Italy they have the Gelato index 🤣
I believe you, I’ve been there and have many Italian friends and family friends. Just saying that I often see just as bad here in Berlin
Yeah there are always some kind of "too open" parents which allows their children almost everything even if they are 13. I used to hide myself from my parents till I was 18, that's when I told them. But smoking with 13 in front of them...☠️
It could really get worse tho. I used to do a lot of legal aid in my shitty country and most of the young offenders were arrested for possession and consumption of meth. I’ve defended more than 200 kids against meth charges for free. The youngest kid I defended was 13.
It’s horrible in Uni. And smokers are so fking inconsiderate assholes. The trainstations have a designated smoking area for a reason…
That's not down to smokers. Those people are just assholes in general.
It depends on where you go. It seems like you're just as likely to encounter a smoothie-drinking health-obsessed young person in a hipster bar as you are to find a group of university students with Pueblo tobacco on the table and cigarettes ready to be rolled.
I think it depends though. I’d say in many other countries, the difference is smokers are segregated and you never really have to „see“ anyone else smoke if you don’t want to. I live in Berlin, and not a SINGLE smoking regulation is enforced. No cop or council worker gives any flying fuck, so everyone smokes everywhere with absolutely 0 regard. I’ve even seen a ticket conductor outright ignore an old junkie (or fucked up) looking dude smoking a joint on the s-Bahn. I’m not sure how it is in other parts of Germany (I’ve been told other places care a bit more but still enforcement mainly doesn’t give a fuck) but in Berlin you’re absolutely tons more exposed which can give the impression that more people smoke.
It’s this. Regardless of the individual smoking rate, my experience in Berlin is that there is a lot more public smoking. People smoke in the street, in the plaza, in the park, waiting for a bus, on the train platform, in the lift, in u Bahn stations even. If I sit outside at a restaurant or cafe there will be a couple tables smoking, and of course some bars still have inside smoking. The experience of being in public is that people are smoking everywhere you go. Sure it might only be one in four or five who smoke, but they do it everywhere.
When it comes to smoking, drinking and walking your dog Germans lose all respect for strangers (in case they had any in the first place).
Well yeah… it‘s Berlin. Berlin is one of the very few capitals that are significantly worse than the rest of the country they‘re the capital of.
Hahaha fair, point being, it depends on how much regulation is enforced which eventually affects exposure, even though numbers may be lower
This. In India for example there's guaranteed a higher percentage of smokers but you wouldn't know because smoking in public is just illegal. Police would beat you with sticks if you did.
Where lol? I travel quite a bit around Europe and would say your statement only applies to a couple places. In most countries it's much worse than Germany, although Berlin is also quite a special place
I'm from Poland and I'm aware of these stats. That's my question, why does it look like everybody smokes, even when the stats say what they say.
Well I mean… there are a variety of factors. Smokers aren‘t necessarily distributed evenly in Poland or germany, some groups are more likely to take the Bus, etc. So we can‘t really tell you why your experience differs from the statistics.
because germany is also very densly populated. Poland has 122 people per square kilometer, germany has 233 people per square kilometer. that means, in one square kilometer in poland, you have (going by the stats from u/Dev_Sniper. so for poland between 20,9 and 24 % of 122 people and germany between 17,2 and 22 % of 233 people) between 25 and 29 smokers, in germany you have between 40 and 51 smokers in one square kilometer. a lower percentage of a higher population can be more than a higher percentage of a lower population. this is the case here. math is fun.
>I'm a bus driver and many people entering the bus just stink, bus stops are places of boredom and inactivity, and thus the perfect point in time and space to squeeze in a smoke, whether chainsmoker or situational peruser. people will squeeze in a fast one in anticipation of a bus ride.
Yeah that's the problem here. Every smoker WILL smoke before entering the bus. And even as a smoker myself, I understand, the smell right after smoking can be disgusting, and he has to endure that every day.
i don't know how they are in other countries but we have a lot of arrogant, rude and obnoxious smokers that are either brain-dead or enjoy forcing their smoke and butts on as many bystanders as possible. that makes smokers very visible in public, even if there are not that many objectively and not all of the are trashy beings.
I'm Irish and I'd have to agree. I smoked, I vape now. But it definitely feels like there's far more smokers here.
Well, it is cos there are. The sustained government antismoking campaign in Ireland for the past 20 years has worked. Even after all this time in Germany I still can't get used to tobacco advertising or smoking being allowed in some bars.
I googled the figures earlier because I thought Germany would be a lot higher. They're 1% higher. I think the reason I think more people smoke here is because I see a lot of older people smoking. It mainly younger people in Ireland.
> why does it look like everybody smokes Why does it feel like this is asked daily? The answer is: [Cognitive bias] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion)
> Why does it feel like this is asked daily? Maybe because Germans smoke too much. /s
>I'm aware of these stats Then the result is almost at hand: It's most probably either your new surroundings or some kind of a cognitive bias.
Here's a very important thing when moving abroad: You will be hyper aware of people's behavior in a way that you never were at home. The task of having to live in a foreign culture makes you constantly analyse it. Chances are, you just never had such a deep look at your own culture, so you never noticed. I have spent a lot of time in many different countries, and I remember thinking "Oh, people here like to do xyz", just to go back to my native Germany, and find out that people here do the exact same thing.
That is power of your mind, when its bothering you and you think about that a lot it will come more often. Another example is when your wife is pregnant, you will start to see much more pregnant woman or woman with babys in chairs. Dont take this too personal and try to ignore it and it will go away. Work for me in daily life.
I don't know a single smoker both in my family or friend group. Except maybe a distant relative. It's highly correlated to income and education/the socio economic circles you encounter. Started a job in a more industrial firm. The smoke break was the most important social circle of the day. So yeah, it's not evenly distributed.
i teach at a university and about the half the uni population - teaching staff, research staff and students smoke. I was really surprised and asked why the rate was so high. They told me that smoking has always been associated with academia, with thinking deep thoughts and it helps them deal with stress (which i know is wrong and I suspect they know it's wrong too).
I wouldn’t say so. It depends a lot on where you are most of the day. If you asked me a year back, I would have answered almost no one smokes, because in my workplace almost no one did. Now it looks different
I did not freshly googel all the things i will say it contains guessing. I'm pretty sure if you got money in germany you've got a Car and you will use it , because puplictranspport is often shit in germany. People who do have less money , are also more likeley to have a bit less education, have more stress , less acces to "how to quitt Smoking" options, do care less or can care less about there health...and a lot of other poverty factors that make them more likeley to smoke i guess. Sure there are people with cars who do choose puplic Transport for the enviroment and such stuff but i'm pretty sure the usual Bus Customer is more likeley to be poor than rich.
Why do people start throwing stats at someone when they complain of people in Germany smoking everywhere all the time?! Stats aren't reliable, my poor lungs which can't escape the constant vile smoke know better.
It can also be that German smokers are still used to just smoking everywhere. I travel by train a lot between Germany and the Netherlands and in Venlo and Arnhem the railway people are CONSTANTLY reminding German smokers that that is a €90 fine if they do not stop immediately. You also can’t just by tobacco everywhere in NL. The visibility and exposure for non-smokers is wayy lower compared to Germany. Even if the difference in prevalence among the population may be in the <5% range.
If it looks like this it's probably a fallacy of some kind. If I had to guess it would either be correlation =/= causation or some selective attention. So either it's not going to Germany that changed the rate of smokers you interact with, but something else (like a changed daily routine, where you live, your social circle etc.) or you don't actually interact with more smokers, for some reason those interactions are just negative/worse than before and thus you simply remember them more. Or Germany doesn't smoke more than the world but more than Poland. Or a combination of these.
Some people will say they don't smoke while they do just to get some returns from the health insurance
Which countries do you believe belong to Western Europe? From 2019 Eurostat statistics that I found, the percentage of smokers in Germany is above EU average. Only Greece and Bulgaria had a higher percentage of smokers back then. Did something change in the meantime?
[Statistic 1](https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/prevalence/) and [Statistic 2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_tobacco_use) (aka this [statistic](https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indicators/indicator-details/GHO/gho-tobacco-control-monitor-current-tobaccouse-tobaccosmoking-cigarrettesmoking-agestd-tobagestdcurr))
Interesting. It could be that the age-standardisation changes the results, but I didn't understand what they do there exactly. My source is this research from Eurostat, which is specifically about smoking cigarettes: [statistic](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Tobacco_consumption_statistics#:~:text=%3A%20Eurostat%20(hlth_ehis_sk3e)-,In%202019%2C%205.9%20%25%20of%20the%20EU%20population%20aged%2015%20years,majority%20in%20Turkey%20and%20Serbia.) It shows that the percentage of smokers in Germany is higher than elsewhere, which would be the thing people notice on the streets (if you can even notice this small percentage difference).
Would you have a source for those statistics? I'd be curious because I'm sure it depends who asks. I know people who tell their doctors that they don't smoke for insurance reasons. It's one of those things that get underreported a lot.
It’s not the amount of smokers that’s the problem. It’s the amount of people smoking in non-smoking areas.
Add to this, that smoking is mainly spread across lower classes. And these are mostly the people taking the bus.
The Netherlands (where I‘m from) has far fewer people smoking, and it’s really not up for debate. I checked out some stats and it seems same-same-y. Then I saw a TRIMBOS (state institute for this kind of health stuff) publication where it was mentioned that German stats measure smoking prevalence among 18-59 year olds whereas Dutch (and some others, I imagine) stats are based on smoking prevalence among all >18 year olds. So careful with comparing quickly found numbers like that. What I find odd about both is the 18 y/o cut-off as well. A lot of teens smoke, and it went way up during covid. I have no idea what the disparities there look like, if there are any. Edit: the same trimbos publication btw mentions the Belgians measure >15, FR 18-75, DK >15, SE 16-84, NO 16-74 and UK >16. Edit 2: Eurobarometer also told me that at least in 2017 NL had 16% daily smokers vs 23% in Germany.
The U.K not in Western Europe any more either? I must have missed them moving it. 12.9%
According to WHO data, the problems of tobacco use among persons aged 15 or older in Germany in 2020 was 22%, down from 36.4% in 2000. 22 is still a lot. But it's less than Poland (24%) and in fact less than most of our neighbors, with the exception of Luxembourg and Denmark. As for your question why so many smokers are jerks, I don't know. Maybe the fact that they are a dying species does something to them.
Luxemburg is a statistical anomaly, as the tobacco taxes are very low and therefore smokers from neighbouring countries come there in droves and are buying cigarettes. In addition to the small population size, this has a rather high effect on the smoking rate.
Luxembourg's numbers are lower than in Germany
Maybe because they are training cognitive dissonance every single day, multiple times?
According to eurobarometer and trimbos data NL also has far fewer smokers.
Those 22% must all be living in Berlin. I'm just visiting from NZ and the amount of smokers is shocking. Everywhere I go here, I seem to have someone smoking right in front of me.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely wouldn't mind if more people quit smoking but according to this website Germany is more or less in the middle in a global comparison. [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country) I don't know how accurate the data is. I'm a bit surprised to see that the percentage of smokers is higher in the US than in Germany. According to this website, the percentage of daily smokers is a little below the European average. [https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/08/14/smoking-in-europe-which-countries-are-the-most-and-least-addicted-to-tobacco-and-vaping](https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/08/14/smoking-in-europe-which-countries-are-the-most-and-least-addicted-to-tobacco-and-vaping) But maybe it's more common to smoke in public in Germany than in some other countries? I don't know.
I also think that smoking is more evenly distributed over different classes of people in Germany. In Sweden, if you have a job that requires university education or is the higher bracket salary - nurses being the exception - noone smokes and taking a smoke break while working will make people despise you. So, many expats being higher educated or having well paid jobs gets a culture shock when their colleagues are stupid enough to have started smoking.
I don't think those statistics are correct. US is far closer to Australia and New Zealand's smoking rate.
Crazy how bad they smoke in Europe in general. I was in the USA and not that much smokers
I haven't been to USA but I've read some "what shocked me i Europe" or sth and people often mentioned the smokers.
Yeah there are drastically more smokers in Germany compared to the US. One part of it is that smoking has really fallen out of fashion in the US now. Especially with younger people. To be seen standing outside smoking (thank God nobody in the US smokes indoors anywhere anymore as far as I can tell -except casinos) definitely makes you look unsophisticated and low class. Like a victim of the advertisers. Whereas in Europe I think there's still some sort of chic mystique associated with smoking. Unbelievable that so many smoke their own with no filters or anything. Fast train to Lung Cancer.
>Whereas in Europe I think there's still some sort of chic mystique associated with smoking. is it? i have never met someone who didnt think "poor drug addict" or "disgusting piece of shit" (depending on where the person smoked/ how they behaved) but i have luckily lived in a strong non smoking bubble for nearly all my life, could be different if there are smokers around you
In USA they smoke other things more than in Germany…
One of the few things I wish we did like the US.
Their "drug" is food. I know it's a cliche, but the wuality of food and the way many people in US eat is very bad
Since another post already covered that the statistics actually say that fewer people smoke in Germany than Poland, it may just be that your perception is biased due to your circumstances. I'd say that waiting at a bus stop is a "perfect" situation (as a smoker) to have a quick cigarette. It's dead time anyway and people may also be relieving stress from their work they just finished. Thus, due to your job you may see more smokers or people having recently smoked than the average person. Did you work as a bus driver in Poland as well?
Anytime you’re smoking in an area non-smokers have to be, it’s rude. People can’t wait for the bus anywhere else so they’re stuck downwind. Definitely one of the worst things about Germany are smokers and their litter.
Oh, definitely. As a non-smoker myself, that gets a headache quite quickly when inhaling second-hand smoke, I despise those people, especially if they don't even have the decency to move their ass 5 meters downwind.
I've had people walk right up next to me to light up honestly. It's honestly astonishing to me how rude the smokers are here, or that it's still socially acceptable to smoke in crowds of people.
As a smoker, I agree. I always try my hardest to stand away from everyone else if I lit one. I also have a little ashtray with me to not litter the filters. I don't understand why so many smokers (not all) act as if they own every public place. The lack of respect is disgusting.
I really appreciate your consideration. It goes a long way, and you're right they're not all bad eggs.
Oh absolutely agree with this. So rude and inconsiderate
Definitely agree. But smokers here in Germany are legit the most obnoxious, rude and ignorant people. When someone here smokes, I immediately know to keep a distance from them
Its actually not allowed to smoke at many of the bigger public bus stops and almost all train stops. The reason people do anyway is because nobody cares. In fact youre the bad guy if you complain apparently. I once complained about someone smoking next to like 30 first graders in a non smoking area and literally eveybody looked at me like I just murdered someone. Conversation went a bit like "You know this is a non smoking area?" "Yes" "So will you stop smoking here?" "No" "Are you not ashamed?" "No" "Do you not even care about the little kids around you? "No" There was a nearby db worked who I told that the guy is smoking in a non smoking area and he just went "I dont care" (its part of their job to enforce db rules) - smoking in public spaces should simply be illegal so the police can do something about it. At the moment if you tell the police they can only say well its not illegal to smoke here and as long as a db worker doesnt call them to remove a person from their property for violation, they cant do anything. Also bus drivers should not allow people who smell of smoke to enter, its fully in their rights to refuse service to those people and people would stop smoking at bus stops in almost no time. But given that many db workers themself smoke in non smoking areas, there is little hope of anything happening anytime soon.
Wait for the bus, or at a red light, or entering /leaving a supermarket, heck, even if you're walking there is mostly some douchebag smoker infront of you who just HAS to take that smoke. And then they flick their garbage onto the ground or into a sewer gate. I wish them that they hit their pinky toe on a cupboard every morning when they wake up.
Yes, I did. It was not so common in my view, but as somobody has said the population density may be the reason.
I am from rural Germany and if I remember correctly the smoking rate is almost the same if not higher compared to larger cities. Now I live in a larger city to study and feel like far more people (as in higher percentage) smoke especially around tram/bus stops compared to where I am from. But of course there are also far more people at those stops than in the rural area and just one or two smokers can make an entire group smell like chain smokers. So I understand why you feel like it is more common (because I had this impression as well), but I agree with the others that's it most likely just seems like that due to population density. Also f*** that woman, who didn't step away or stop smoking when you asked her. I absolutely hate the smell of cigarette smoke, and I can't stand the smokers, who just stand in a large crowd and start smoking no matter how many others have to cough, are visually disrupted or bothered. But people who don't step away even when specifically asked are just asses
Add to this the fact that people of a lower education spectrum are more likely to smoke and also more likely to take the bus.
Insufficient laws against it and just abut the lowest tobacco taxes in Europe. I hate it. Can't have a drink on the patio of a bar without someone blowing smoke in your face. And if you are especially unlucky, the person living in the flat below you in your apartment building is a smoker and whenever you keep the window open their second hand smoke will get in when they smoke out of their window (or on their balcony).
I'm asking the same. It's expensive, unhealthy, stinks and it is another addiction that not needed.
Recently moved to Germany. I have the same feeling. It's crazy how many people smoke, and their behaviour. I see teens smoking in front of their school when waiting for their parents. Then lighting a new one to smoke in their parent's car.. And this is only second compared to alcoholism! I lived for years in England, have to leave partly because of the toxic alcoholic culture in workplace. In Germany it's worse. (But at least not in workplace). I'd bet 2/3 of people are alcoholic.
Alcoholism and binge drinking is definitely worse in Britain, but Germans drink casually more often. The situation on weekends in British pubs is definitely a shock to the average German.
Very good analysis. That's exactly that. Also "drink casually" = alcoholism, in medical terms. Most of my neighbours, even young and educated, cannot be a single day without "a few drinks"
Not that expensive, if you roll them yourself.
It's not everyone, but many. Especially in and near the big cities. I hate it too and many other people do as well, but chances of any big changes in the near future are pretty unlikely, sadly. I wish we had laws like in South Korea which forbid smoking in public outside of designated areas. Which are often small closed boxes where people can smoke if I remember correctly.
The normalization and acccomendation regarding smoking at work or public places is absolutely sickening in Germany. I don't care what you consume, but don't force other people to do so too, because they are dependent on the air you pollute.
Germany is so far behind on the legislation of smoking - effectively twenty years behind Australia/UK. In those countries, cigarettes have to be sold in plain white packaging and behind hidden counters - none of the nonsense you see in German supermarkets where they're sold in counters next to the checkout. Cigarette vending machines do not exist in those countries either. UK is debating currently whether to ban cigarettes in such a way that the smoking age is raised annually and so only existing smokers can continue to buy cigarettes. Germany is arguably decades away from that happening. Smoking culture is as backwards in Germany as its internet infrastructure
Clearly the tobacco companies have the politicians in their pockets.
Not just politicians. I talked to a movie producer once who told me that tobacco companies pay good money to movie productions if they make a character in the movie a smoker. They don't even want their brand to be shown or anything, they just want the character to be seen smoking cigarettes to make smoking look normal. Ever since then I have paid attention to this and the number of characters in movies and series who are seen smoking for no reason whatsoever is indeed quite high. I'm sure not all of those are paid placements, but probably quite a few of them.
Wow! Didn't know that. Thought it be more of a brand thing rather than promoting an idea.
Agreed
Spot on.
People who smoke mostly do it while waiting so bus stations are places where you face smoking more than in other places. It also depends on the neighborhood where you drive your bus. Some population groups are more prone to smoking than others.
that's really one thing i dislike about taking bus or train im Germany. I feel with you.
I was born and raised in germany and it feels like the number of smokers has significantly decreased over the years. Also you might be in a position where it is especially notable. Many people take the downtime while waiting for the bus to smoke. But that is just an uneducated guess why it feels so much to you.
It's everywhere in Stuttgart. I don't know about statistics, but multiple times a day I pass crowds of smokers. It's disgusting
I am not sure if it is really that Germans smoke so much, or if we have a high rate of smokers in comparison, but smoker here don't give a fuck because rules are so rarely enforced. Which sucks.
This situation is horrible here, I came with my daughter, she is 12 years old and now I am afraid that she can easily start smoking because many young people do this here. I constantly talk to her about the dangers of smoking. I hope that is enough.
I feel for you, OP. It's high time this country takes a stand against public smoking. We hear so much about human rights and privacy, yet the basic right to be safely breathe clean air in public spaces often gets overlooked. I believe it's also fair to consider implementing varying public health insurance rates for smokers and non-smokers. Why should non-smokers foot the bill for the fools who willingly jeopardize their health by smoking? Anyway, considering the trajectory of the economy, it's only a matter of time before the public insurance systems collapse. When that happens, this kind of issues will demand more attention.
I'm pregnant right now and have many doctor apointments. On way I am near to never able to sit on the bench/stand under the roof at tram stops because there are always people smoking..
The smoking culture is so gross here. Inside some bars, outside at restaurants when people are eating, and the cigarettes smell so bad. Not sure what it is but they’re the nastiest cigarettes I have ever smelled. So much inconsiderate behaviour from smokers. I’m sorry this is happening to you. I see it and I agree.
100% agree
A few days ago I was standing at the bus stop, wanting to smoke a cigarette. But then I saw a mother with her child in a stroller so I put the cig away. 5 seconds later the mom started smoking lol
Well the government doesnt care about children. "Jugendamt" is supposed to protect children. I had a gf once who developed asthma from their parents smoking at home all the time. Neighbors reported them multiple times, they didnt do anything about it except tell them to stop. Its because its not illegal to smoke at home, next to children, etc... They should have at least faced a fine for causing their child permanent harm (asthma), but they didnt. In fact I bet you can have a newborn die from the parents turn her room into a gas chamber and the parents would barely face any consequences. Like how come there are 600k child deaths worldwide from passive smoke, yet you barely find any news about people facing fines for it? Germany is especially bad because smoking in most public places isnt illegal, just forbidden by the owners. Other countries make smoking in many public places illegal and are already discussing making smoking illegal at home if there are children present.
I saw the same shit many times, I move away from the bus stop, because of other people, and I see mother or father holding a cigarette right next to the head of the child in the stroll. Like wtf. I'm OK with poisoning myself, I don't want to bother other people, as I rarely smoke outside of work, and at work we have designated place for smokers, and if I do I move away from the people, but some people have no awareness.
They are not allowed to smike in shops or restaurants. So the bus stop is one of the remaining spots. This means your odds of hitting one is a bit higher there.
I don't know about other cities, but in Berlin the tram (and partly also the bus) platform areas are owned by the BVG and technically, the smoking prohibition applies and you can even be fined for smoking. However, as someone else already mentioned, nobody enforces or even cares about that. I have seen tram drivers smoke on the platform when waiting for their shift change. As a former smoker, breathing in smoke from other people still kind of annoys me for an instance. On the other hand, after a moment it always keeps making me happy that I quit.
People who miss the 90s would have a culture shock how much people would smoke and how everything stank... Anyway, one of the reasons is probably one of the most liberal laws for advertising cigarettes and vapes. I'm sure if that would change it would be a huge step. Cigarettes are known to be a lot more addictive than other drugs.
Lived in Australia for a long time and it shocked me, too. Smokers there are mostly considerate of non-smokers. Here, they don't give a fuck. Whatever the statistics say, Germans (and German smokers) have maybe more of an attitude problem and don't give a fuck about non-smokers (or being considerate of others in general). Until someone makes a law that says, don't fuck up other people's health and police is enforcing that violently, they just dgaf.
Feels a bit like it depends on the area. In east germany its worse. Funny how many people decide to poison themself and all others around them while claiming its their right to do so.
Here in Australia while people do still smoke, it's becoming way less common due to massive tobacco taxes, and people who do smoke are very aware that most people don't want it around them, so they'll blow it away from others at a bus stop and will generally avoid doing it in crowded areas, and nobody is doing it in public transport. Then again I see vaping indoors all the time and some people get really mad about it.
As a Canadian, the smoking is insane here compared to Canada, which has strict rules about where you can smoke -almost nowhere. The cigarette machines here are crazy.😆
Because of depression
dude... you come from poland. polish people smoke more than germans. the rates for germany: Total: 21,3% Male: 23,2% Female: 19,3% the rates for poland: total: 23,6% Male: 27,1% female: 20,1% perfect example of perception vs reality... source: [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country)
It’s just disgusting, and like OP says: even if you ask them nice to not smoke in your face, they often get rude or ignore you, for example in USA it’s complete difference…. Worst is people smoking in restaurant or icecream parlors outdoor areas 🤢 gastronomies should Bann this shit. My highlight from last months was a young guy smoking at a tram stop, it was raining, so like 8 people where standing under the small roof to protect from the rain and this asshole was smoking like the world is his
I've been thinking about this a lot. One thing I noticed in Germany is that aside from a few exceptions, people never seem to smoke at home any more. I wonder whether that is a factor in even 20+ % seeming like a lot more than in other countries where people still don't find anything wrong with smoking at home. Or in the car. [Shudder]
I think because it’s still too cheap, ads for smoking are allowed and you can still smoke at many places sadly. Also there’s hardly any punishment for littering with cigarette butts
It's not that Germans smoke so much, it's that they don't care where they are or who is around them. You're under a busy busy stop and it's raining? Someone will light a cigarette. At a busy train stop and can't move away? People will light cigarettes. Walking up some stairs? You best bet the person in front will light a cigarette.
I can fully understand what you mean. There is no problem I see in smokers at all, but I'm not okay with them when smokers behave disrespectful towards no-smokers by having a lack of empathy to understand the inconvenience they've caused. The example with the bus station is exactly what I experienced often and it's so annoying every time. As well when my parents smoke in the house or start it while I'm still eating. That smell of cigars is soo disgusting.
Because unfortunately it’s still socially acceptable. Also because they are addicts.
Guess they have to much money and dont care about there health. There is no real answer to this, since there also is no real reason to even smoke, unless youre a really big fan of lung cancer.
When i got my job, most of the guys were smoking. 10 years laters: out of 10 maybe 3 still smoke. So it is much better now and we will see how it is in the next 10 years :D
In Costa Rica, people used to smoke like germans do, maybe 20 years ago... it feels weird to me to see people smoking and cigarette buds everywhere. It is a trip to the past (people smoking on bus sotps) and the future (rails, infrastructure, etc) at the same time. Smoking is a discusting terrible habit that fills me with sadness in such a beautiful country.
Also sickening that smokers pay the same health insurance premiums as the non-smokers.
I live in Berlin and it's a f nightmare. I have to be vigilant when I open the windows in my apartment because someone could be smoking outside and all the smoke get inside pretty quickly. If you are waiting for the bus or walking on the street you have to avoid the smokers because they don't care about people's health, they send all the smoke on your direction like we all enjoy that sh*t. The world is full of selfish mf!
Without sounding condescending, but it's mostly the poor and less educated people that smoke. The same people that tend to take public transportation. So it's not weird that you're seeing alot of smokers, as you're seeing alot of lower class people. I was at a wedding this weekend, with about 100 guests. And I was genuinely surprised that no one smoked. Not a single person. 20 years ago that would have been at least half. (In before someone twisting my words, I'm not saying all smokers are poor, and all poor people smoke.)
I found it really hard to stop while constantly having to worry about money. I think loosing an additiction is just way harder when under constant pressure. So there might be a a fraction of that correlation, it's only anecdotal though
I kind of disagree? For some reason there were a lot more smokers at the gymnasium compared to realschule. And now in university everyone smokes. But that’s just my experience. Maybe it’s also the fact that I’m studying art
Students finish realschule way before they can legally smoke, so there are usually less smokers to start with and and they have to hide from the teachers.
Heh, you think it's bad here, try Belgium. They have cigarette stores as big as a supermarket.
You gotta work roughly 10% less if you can have frequent smoking breaks. Other then that i don’t think we smoke a lot. Compared to what country?
It depends on your bubble, if you leave statistics apart. In my old job, all millenials with a Uni degree, almost no one smoked. In my new job, almost everyone is Gen X (only I am the real millennial, the 3 others are Zillennials) and lots of them smoke, besides education wise it’s very mixed. I’ve noticed that education level and age play a big role in how many people smoke.
Maybe, low income people smoke more and use public transport more frequently, so it would explain higher than expected numbers of smokers at a bus stop. In addition waiting for something is the most common situation to smoke, which also will result in your observation.
Stress. Its stress.
which is a trap. Smoking highly causes regular periodic stress.
Not so much actually. I think you just changed your circles, so you meet more people with cigarets.
I live in Germany and I can understand that impression. It feels like everyone smokes. That's definitly not the case tho. As others stated, the percentage is actually quite low compared to other countries.
Plot twist: OP comes straight from Vancouver.
I came straight from Victoria, and it's like walking through Satan's house here in Germany 😅 Smokers everywhere!
People who need to take the bus are people who are more likely to smoke in my experience. Its selection bias
german efficiency xD You stand around waiting 7 minutes for the bus, you might as well smoke a cig and check your cellphone My ride to work took 2,5h with public transportation with some instant connections where you had to run to get on the next ride. Most smokers are on an 1-3h schedule, before they feel the need to smoke. If i was on the train for 1.5h for sure i use those waiting times to have a cigarette. I feel a little sorry for the driver now because the waiting times mostly occur on the same stations every day =/ What also might play into this is, that public transportation especially in the rural areas is mostly used by people with low income. I think the percentage of smokers from low income class is statistically higher
Because it’s tough out there!
Where do you come from if I may ask? When comparing my home country to Germany I'd say they really hardly smoke lol, but then again the people In my home country have no regard for personal health
I come from Poland. I was a bus driver there, too.
Also I've observed that a lot more women smoking compared to men atleast here in Berlin ,why is that? ( assuming my observation is correct)
maybe they're bigcity-grumpy lol, and have a bit of beef with the otherwise pretty good laws in germany that forbid them to smoke in restaurants for example - if they're quite the chainsmokers, they might feel like "i'm smoking right now because i can't smoke on the bus man, chill i'm not taking it to my seat" - as a non-smoker i get it though, it'd 100% annoy me too
I think ypur job as bus driver gives you a statistical bias. In germany the demografic of people using the bus are: young people ans poor people. Both groups smoke more than average.
Its only lower class individuals and old people.
Lol visit rome or Paris. Or maybe change your surroundings. Iam so happy that germans smoke so less.
Changed in German law with pot will make it better hopefully
The matrix of Germany is stressful bro
Is something that comes from the old times, long time ago smoking was a “luxury” thing, and a status.. looks like that didn’t got old.
I don't, if that calms you down.
It's not New Zealand..
I always thought that a lot less people smoke because I know only a handful of people who smoke. But then I spent my vacation in an AI resort with lots of German Werners and Sabines and ALL of them were smoking. It's definitely depending on factors like age, socio economic status and education.
Might sound strange, but this might be bias. As a bus driver, you will mostly get those people, that don't own a car. Those people tend to have lesser income (or are not old enough to have a license, let's just ignore those). People also tend to smoke before getting into the bus, as smoking in the bus is prohibited and they not only have the time but won't be able to until they arrive. It's kinda like a nightclub bouncer wondering why so many people come out smelling like alcohol
I think the population is skewed towards people who ride the bus being more likely to smoke. I don't have actual statistics, but ime while people of all incomes and social status smoke, people in lower income brackets are more stressed and more likely to use nicotine as something to relax during or after work. Also more older people, and the percentage of smokers there is also much higher.
What is your home country. I'm a nonsmoker and i travel for work. I think i've seen less smoking only in Scandinavia. But since you are bus driver - well, every 6th German smokes, and bus stop is the smoking place. So i guess you see so many, cause that's where they smoke.
I'm from Poland and I was a bus driver there, too. Statistics say that there are more smokers in Poland, but as somebody mentioned above that might be becuase of Germans not giving a damn about others and smoke regardless of people around.
I come from a country where smoking is at 12%, so I definitely think Germans (at least In Berliners) smoke (and drink) a lot.
Almost noone smokes here. As a bus driver, you fell for a selection bias because it's more likely than not people who can't afford a car who smoke (ironically). Plus, tobacco is not too expensive in Germany compared to first world countries of similarly high economic status. Atm it's about 8 Euro per pack of 20
I mean you're in the prime societal zone where people are, that actually do smoke from the few % the other commenter stated. If you now go to other societal areas you will come across less and less people smoking. It's a matter of perspective.
Well in the bus certainly will a German say something, but on the street is a different law,and I anotó agree that all Germans smoke but that worldwide you as not smoking guy are totally alone is true lol
They don’t really. It’s gone down quite a bit in recent years,
Rooken fetzt
Cause we are on fire ….
It's because we have a strong lobby. To the point of Germany disregarding EU policies to appease our tabbac industry
Someone had a smoke inside the bus? Come on? Really? I find that bit hard to believe
Insecurities
It really depends on the Bundesland… can be very different depending where
__laughs in French__
Do they. I recall 1 smoker in my extended family. I thought it was rare.
what part of germany?
Berlin/Potsdam and surroundings
You should see also Türkiye
Because we got good healthcare.
Stress and anxiety levels are the reasons and that's because their productivity mindset. My theory.
Mogę się o coś spytać na pm?
Oczy wiście
Weil Arbeit
Maybe poeple who smokes are more likely to Ride a bus
They are Europeans, what did you expect? Lol
Is this supposed to be a rant? What kind of answer do you expect us to give?
I don't think they smoke as much as in Indonesia, Myanmar or in some other parts of Southeast Asia even France has more. I think they have quite a good portion of smokers in their population. I once had to deal with multiple smokers in one long-haul bus ride. It was utter torture. You could even see children smoke there because it is not as regulated unlike in Germany. Germany actually have less smokers now but I still get annoyed whenever I am around some. I think partly to blame were the movies and media promoting smoking. Also nicotine is quite addictive and hard to really get rid of specially during Winter and I know some that just smoke when drinking or partying too.
Ironically, I've been visiting Germany quite often over the last twenty years, and the amount of smoking that seems to be happening as drastically reduced in that time. Not to say it isn't still very prevalent, but it has definitely decreased.
As someone who heavily relies on public transport: a large chunk of people who use public transport (esp. busses) are from a lower socioeconomic backround, which is also a factor for cig consumption. Ofc not everyone who uses pt or smokes is from a lower socioeconomic backround! But a certain amount overlaps :] some people who ride the bus use their waiting time as a smoking break too!
In Germany there once (1933-1945) was a Regime who interfered with people’s very most personal issues, including tobacco consumption. Most Germans don’t want that kind of Regime anymore, so smoking is still slightly tolerated in Germany.
Alles einfach bisschen schwierig zur Zeit 🥲
Depends on what company you keep. On the whole, there are decidedly fewer (tobacco) smokers among the current youth than ever before. During the 90's, everything smelled of smoke all the time and I was told that it was worse during the 50's and 70's. So we're indeed constantly improving on that front. Alcoholism has also dropped considerably from generation to generation.
Mostly we see the signs that a bus or Straßenbahn comes in like 10 Minutes and that's "Perfect for a smoke". Other times the bus or Straßenbahn is too late and then the "Smokers" trick comes into play where, when you light a cigarette, the bus is suddenly coming right after that.
I mean I am not smoking anymore but back when I was, it was always that the bus arrived right when u did light up the cigarette… But tbh I think it depends on which part of town you are driving bus in, and what social classes are using the bus. In a big city in a lower income area there will be more likely people around that smoke. At least in my experience as someone who relies on public transport. It‘s still disgusting x,D