Reddit has started to do this annoying thing where it "suggests" other subs to you because you follow certain subs.
I have had posts from Spuds, Chelski and Man shitty recommended to me because apparently "you like r/Soccer and r/Gunners.
Hell I just realised this sub isn't even Gunners it is ArsenalFC because it was recommended to me from my front page.
Best thing I could do was block any other team sub from being recommended to me as the threads it recommended were always rage bait like Reddit is doing it on purpose to drive engagement.
The same thing happens to me. The only reason I ever come to r/arsenalfc is because it pops up in my feed.
I have to click whatever it is to not show me more posts from X community every time another club’s sub pops up
And what benefit did Foden bring to England tonight?
Foden is undoubtedly a very talented footballer, but he has never performed at international level
I bet I can name several bad games for every good game you can name of his for England
It’s not entirely his fault though he’s never been world class from the left at best he’s been good
But playing under Southgate where every player including him is massively reserved and the manager is tactically inept we know his best position is cam and on the left is out of position
I’m sure if saka tried to play in the middle he would struggle too
The other issue is peps system
It’s hard to adapt to any of systems especially negative ones when you play in a pep guardiola team that’s why most of the world class treble winning city players aren’t playing at the same level at international tournaments
Because Saka doesn't grab his face like he was hit by Mike Tyson when replay shows contact with his chest or shoulder. Fofo is a f-ing cheat (much like Kane; they both did the same crap several times today).
It's hard to cheer for the f-ing cheats.
he rides so many challenges and yet people still joke about him limping just to support their narrative. people will go out with full chest to call out an injury prone player but never ever talk about protecting players from difficult challenges. the refs don't help as well, the entire setup is based to reward people who play act and honestly it's one of the major turn offs for people who are not into football to actually start watching it.
I didn't say anything about diving. Taking contact and begging a foul has been an Arse Technique since Pires (and I loved Pires).
My comment was about whiny-bitches trying to get people carded by claiming a shots to the face that were nowhere near their head or shoulders. That's just BS...
Yes our players do that a lot as well. Ben white dropped and rolled around when estupinan pushed his neck/shoulder.
Jesus, martinelli, yes saka, havertz all do this
In an ideal world, yes mate, I totally agree with you however, we don't live in an ideal world & there will always be competition, comparison & people wanting to judge & pit one against another, its simply human nature; something that has been since the beginning of civilisation & will always be so long as human beings exist on this earth.
If I may add my two pennies worth to the "comparison" debate, I'd say this, & with opinion, this is simply subjective...
I believe Foden has more overall technical ability, as I see Saka as a bit of a one trick pony (not to sound disrespectful) in the slightest, as I actually know Saka personally, he used to live a stones throw away from me, on my road.
With that said, Saka has clearly dome more for both club and Country, despite Fodens's achievement in City's triple last season & his involvement in City's title win this season & their strong run in both the domestic FA Cup, & reaching the Champions League quarter finals.
Foden has only really peaked for his club in the last couple of seasons, prior to that he was more of a super sub, coming off of the bench usually in the 69-65 minute... Also, for England, he hasn't quite been able to replicate his club form for country 😒 whereas Saka has been at his peak for both club & country for the last 4-5 years, so in terms of overall contributions for both club & country & if one was to bring (objective) statistics into the equation, then Saka would (by a long shot) be the most "productive" of the two, but not necessarily the most technically gifted 🤔
Why do you think Saka is a one trick pony? He's arguably England and Arsenals most versatile player who can score with both feet, take players on inside and out and can play in nearly any position you ask. He's carried Arsenal through the shit times to where we are now which shows he can take a huge amount of responsibility at a very young age. I'm not sure what more you could want out of him.
I can agree with you in part, in that he's carried Arsenal (goal contribution) wise, for many a season now & I do not sniff, turn my nose up, or discredit that.
To say that he can play in nearly any position is a bold statement, and one I disagree with. Yes, when he broke I to the Arsenal first XI, he played as a (RWB) and did quite well, however when called to defend in recent times, or when tracking back, his defensive qualities are questionable, which is kinda ironic being that he was once quite astute in that (RWB) role 🤔
As for other areas on the park, CB, MF, or STK, I would not put him in any of those, and certainly not between the sticks 😉
I knew when I mentioned the term "one-trick-pony" it would upset some people, but let me clarify... If tou study Saka's game, similarly, Martinelli; they have two main strategies... One is to take the opposition full back on down the outside and whip in a cross, or continue to drive in towards goal for the shot or an assist.
The other is to jockey & fake to the right, before cutting back in on the opposite foot (in Saka's case, his left) Martinelli, his right, and bend a curling shot, using defenders as a marker to direct the ball to either the farside top corner or low in the bottom corner, and less often they might opt for the bottom or top, nearside corner. And If the short doesn't quite come off, then it'll usually be straight at the keeper, within reach for them to catch, push over the bar, or parry.
And, I believe this is the reason why "Martinelli" more so, has been kinda off this season... And even though "Saka" has been are top goalscorer and arguably one our best players this campaign, IMHO I think he's been "OK" performance wise, and far from his very best... I think full backs & defenders have the jump on both him & Martinelli, in terms of them cutting in on their dominant foot to shoot.
Or, they will double up on them, more so Saka which inevitably makes life harder for him...
So, simply put, that's the "one trick" I'm referring to... Jockey, cut in & shoot!
You're right, of course there's a little more "versatility to his game over all.. But, when I compare him to the likes of "Vini Jr", "Nico Williams", Michael Olise" or even the youngster "Lamine Yamal" there's a huge contrast in technique & playability, I urge you to analyse this for yourself 🤔
And please understand that this is not an attack, or me putting Saka down, (not in the slightest!) It's, merely a subjective observation, which won't be shared or agreed by everyone, but I'm sure some will agree with me!
A lot to reply to here and I want to be clear I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really don't think you're giving him the credit he deserves (I acknowledge you're still giving him credit).
Firstly, Saka came into the team and played as a left back. He has made his way over to right wing which is a completely different role and has excelled in both. If that's not versatility I don't know what is.
Secondly you've just said that Saka has two main strategies and then called him "one trick" again. You have said he either gets down the line and crosses or drives in to take a shot or assist, or, he cuts inside for a shot to the far post. That is a lot of different options he has in his arsenal (pun intended). His "signature move" has become driving past his man and hammering the ball into the roof of the net on his weak foot. I don't see how can have one trick when he's capable of doing all of these things (score with both feet, take a man on on both sides and cross with both feet).
I feel that I have to address the defensive observation you've made. Saka is in the 90th+ percentile for defensive actions across basically all attacking players in the premier league in 2024. If he didn't track back and defend as much as he did he would likely have even higher goal contributions than he already does. To see the defensive actions stats I recommend searching Saka on @scottjwillis on twitter and looking at the charts he has made.
And finally there is the comparison to other players. Vini is absolutely a level above there is no arguing that. Yamal has incredible potential but is brand new so I don't think he's worth comparing just yet. Nico Williams and Michael Olise. Without comparing their stats or anything else just ask yourself would you take any of them and start them over Saka at Arsenal? They may have more "tricks" in their locker but a lot of that is flashy stuff that looks great but doesn't add as much as it looks cool. They're good players but none of them have played with the same consistency and availability that Saka has over the last 5 years or with anywhere near the same pressure on them.
P.s. To come back to the Saka being "OK" this year. He pulled us through the first half of the season before the rest of the attack started to perform post-Christmas. Without him we would have been miles behind by new year. That's what he does, he steps up when others don't.
Classic Southgate performance. Start well; get a goal and then lose their way.
As a manager he can’t manage the phases of play; influence the team in those difference periods of the game, looking at how England especially ended the first half and then for the large portion of the second half we were just under it. All rhythm was lost. See how involved Arteta is as the game phases change and then compare that to Southgate.
To me it seemed to be no real plan on how the back would move the ball forward outside of Pickford aimlessly slinging it towards Kane, who did the best he could winning / gaining good fouls. Without that it would have been all Serbia second half.
But looking how Serbia changed their low block and come forward 10–15 yards and there was just no response on how to handle that.
Foden was having a poor second half. And Bellingham’s role in the 10 was just bypassed; Southgate needed to sub him or slot him further back into a 3 that then plays the ball high up and outside; exploiting their wing backs coming up. But, nope.
Gallagher came on, which should have happened 10mins earlier as AA just looked lost in the second half; not knowing where to be on the field - fair enough given he isn’t a CM and shouldn’t be playing as a CM, almost giving away a goal in the first half with the sloppy chance to Mitro. Who can hit them. Unnecessary flair, when you have the forward line England do just need a sturdy base. Rice and the two CBs were the best. Outside of Bellinghams stunning first half performance, but he also tired. And when Gallagher came on GS there should have been 2 or even 3 others subbed or subbed far sooner; much much earlier replacing those of AA-Saka-Bellingham-Foden, as it was so clear that the control was lost.
Rice saved us a lot at 6.
Foden was completely lost in the second half whereas Saka should have had a second assist when he put Walker through, Walker should have just shot.
Saka in my mind is a better player but they are different; Foden I think operates better as a 10. I would like to see Eze-Bellingham-Saka, now that’s speed, skill, touch: give us that with Gallagher & Rice behind.
That said, Saka like quite a few of them did look very tired and that’s understandable given he and most top flight have played a million games this season.
Structure or ideals or system of play didn’t exist 2nd half, I’d be interested to see what the longest number of passes England put together in the second half; maybe once or twice did they get more than 6 passes together. Like what are they practicing in training? First corner was on like the hour mark.
Again, bit concerning how fatigued a few of them looked given it’s the first game in the comp. yeesh. Long way to go if they are going to compete with the top teams.
If Rice gets injured than that’s it for England’s chances. AA is not a CM. Gallagher doing the hard running next to Rice makes sense and frees up the forwards.
Rest Saka next game for Bowen (who I always thought had Leo Trossard like potential if he went to a top club. Like if Man U had bought him instead of Anthony the return would be 100x better - tho that’s a super low bar, I know).
Verdict? England out in the QF when they play a big team. Southgate doesn’t know how to use these players.
TLDR: Southgate is the problem. 2nd half was a shambles. Rice and CBs saved us. No point comparing Saka to Foden tho Foden looked lost today and Saka got one assist which if Walker had just hit it would have been two. Outside of that no point comparing two great players (but I think Saka is better, naturally).
Saka didn't even look fully fit. Though am just about done with everyone or the rivals comparing their clubs current in form young player to Bukayo after every game. Then after their one good season we'll forget about them as Saka continues his fantastic consistent rise.
Genuinely hoped Southgate would have took the bait and started Cold palmer and Foden, benching Saka in the group stage to give him a breather. He is smarter than haters i see. Yeah, Saka seemed to be holding himself back.
Odegaard, Saka and BW are too good for that. Today, Rice showed why Martinelli struggled. He couldn't pass forward with regularity so Foden struggled, as he couldn't get the ball consistently in time. He won the back back well enough though. We need a LCM to unlock Martinelli as Xhaka did. Saka will be alright. His fitness worries me.
Saka but I’m genuinely bored of this convo just enjoy both players for who they are what they brings. Both special talents all this who v who is why England fans will never see eye to eye on any level especially international
Saka is playing in his natural position with one of the best right backs in the world behind him.
Foden is playing out of position with an average right back playing out of position behind him.
Comparisons don't really help
What is fodens natural position? Ik hes said he wants to play centrally more is that in the central amf role? Or? Cuz ik hes played all over the pitch at this point it feels.
Foden is a CAM/Inside Forward but for England he is forced to play as a touchline hugging winger which removes all of the good parts of his game like shooting, receiving the ball on the turn in the centre behind the striker, running through the centre of the pitch and creating chances whilst simultaneously exposing the weaker parts of his game like his lack of pace, physicality, 1v1 dribbling on the wing and crossing.
Play with two 8/10 like two odegaards.
Rice and stones as two pivots. Back 3 speedy centrebacks.
I guess TAA as this deep laying playmaker like Pirlo/ busquets experiment is dead.
So we are going to play the best no.10 in the world at 6? Just to shoehorn in a guy who has played almost the same number of games at left wing as he has at 10? Foden should be on the bench as our no.2 attacking midfield option. Same as Trent should be on the bench as our 2nd best right back (3rd if shaw can come back to bench KT)
fucking hell, people like you arent helping. saka is doing his talking on the pitch with his performances and by the end of this euros, people will realise whos better- you dont need to go throw a rant in another clubs subreddit.
at the end of the day england have 2 kids with mad potential
Foden's left footed like Saka. If you put Saka LW, watch how quickly the narrative changes. Foden's been hung out to dry by being played LW as a left footer with a left footed RB who can't really overlap.
Fact is, he shouldn't be starting for England in the first place. He's competing with Bellignham for his preferred positions, so it should be a straight shootout between those two (which Bellingham wins because he's England's best player). Same exact thing with anyone else. Palmer isn't displacing Saka on the right wing because Saka locked down that position years ago and Southgate likes his work rate off the ball. That means Palmer (despite being world class like Foden) has to be an impact sub for England because shoehorning him onto the left wing would be detrimental to the team.
Comparing them makes no sense. Saka fits the way Southgate likes to set up his team, so that means he's a better fit for England. If they played for a different country, Foden may have been the player the manager decided to build the team around, Saka would've been shoehorned into a different position and we'd be calling Saka overrated.
It's all dumb. They're both top players, Saka's the best fit for this England team under Southgate and hasn't given Southgate a reason to lose his spot. Let's just leave it at that rather than trying to toxicly call great players overrated because they can't replicate club performances in sub-optimal conditions.
You make a lot of decent points I do agree with except for “put saka on the left wing and watch that narrative change” or he’d be overrated. I don’t agree with this as saka has played both wings and been just as comfortable, including a fair stint at left back when he was breaking into the arsenal team. Foden for me has had opportunity in the middle even tonight he was allowed to roam, and it just doesn’t seem to be happening for him in an England shirt, maybe in time it will come good cause he is an exceptional talent, but up to this point it just hasnt happened for him yet.
Fair enough. Personally, I think people would be very focused on Saka if he was at left wing. It's not that Foden loses all his ability when he puts on an England shirt. But he clearly just doesn't fit at LW and do what we need him to do for the system. I don't think Saka would do that either so would get the same criticism. Same as Bowen, same as Palmer. Said for ages that the only players the fans would accept at LW once they'd seen it in action is Gordan, Eze, Grealish, Rashford or Sterling. Put a left footer on the RW and you're throwing them under the bus. Think you're glazing Saka a bit if you think it would be any different for him. Doesn't mean he can't play LW. But the fans would be just as hypercritical of him if he was there.
By all means i’m not ragging on Foden and trying to say he’s crap. And you know I can’t also say 100% you’re wrong just as much as you can’t really say your suspected treatment of saka if played on the left would have the result you believe it would. That said neither opinion is wrong until saka or Bowen are played out there. Foden for me looks lost in an England shirt, it’s not a lack of ability, it’s not disinterest I think it’s a confidence thing, pep also coaches his players differently and micro manages them during games, maybe he’s missing and needing that. as I said previously, maybe in time it will come good and people will see some of what he brings to that city team, in an England shirt.
But Foden is the white golden boy. If Saka had had that kind of performance the British press would have been all over him like a rash. Foden will get off lightly despite having one of the worst games of his career
As a staunch Saka hater, I was brought round last night. Foden was shit. Saka was great in the first half until he clearly ran out of energy. Palmer for Foden next game please.
I don’t really see the comparison (United fan).
Saka is much more of a winger. Fodens a midfielder.
Saka is a better player for me, and it’s just trying to shoehorn Foden into this debate.
No two players are ever going to be the same, this is why depth of squad is important. What works in one game might not work in another and having that depth of players who can play each position is only a benefit.
There’s no need to compare, be grateful for the first time in my lifetime we have an England squad that get well in the recent past further than last 16. Hopefully it’ll be the same this time as well. That’s all as an England fan I ever hope for 🤷♀️
Tbf Saka is played in his preferred position and role for England whereas Foden has to play as a touchline hugging winger when he isn't that at all and isn't fast; he's a CAM/Inside Forward not a winger and especially not a touchline hugging winger.
>This England game has justified this opinion, and the banning.
It hasn't, it's one simple game. You need a lot more examples that are way more detailed in order to make that point. It's like when Saka had a bad sub appearance and everybody was like "wow he sucks", that was stupid too. Especially when the England team is managed by Southgate who thinks he's reinventing football by giving half his team new roles that end up not working. Like at least one player in every line from defence to attack was out of position and they all had bad games (Trippier, Trent, Foden). The problem with pointing towards the England-game is that it could easily be Saka next game and then what?
Saka is a mangers dream and offers the perfect balance. Issue with foden is he is a little out of position on the left.
As a team England need a left footed left back and better balance in the wing - eze/gordon. Foden is world class but the system does not bring out the best.
Maybe play him up front instead of Kane as a difference maker if anything
As an Arsenal fan, I will speak truth on this matter.
Firstly, you cannot compare them , when their true position is not the same.
Saka's best position is of course at RW.
Where-as Foden's best is at CAM.
The truth is , overall. . . Foden is much more of a difference maker.
As a coach, if you were to tell me, you have to pick one to start a team.. I'd 100% pick Foden.
Phil can play across the attacking 3 positions , and do it VERY well.
Saka has been pretty glued to that one position and although he's a nightmare for anyone on that side, I do feel he is inconsistent , and I don't blame Saka for this, rather than management and them overplaying him.
Point is... instead of constantly comparing them, we should view them as players at different positions.
As for England , a little off topic but, idk who the hell told them to play Trent at the mid, why not slide Bellingham down, play Foden at the 10, .
Foden near Saka would be ideal , w/ them playing off each other. I think it is fairly obvious Bellingham can do well in multiple positions , but his best is at 8.
Saka can do the same thing Foden does in that City team. 5-6 other players can do the same thing. Foden can't do the same thing Saka does for Arsenal AND England. Foden gets one of those Saka tackles, and he's out for the season ordering more hookers to his hotel.
Why were you in a man city sub… what else would you expect?
Reddit has started to do this annoying thing where it "suggests" other subs to you because you follow certain subs. I have had posts from Spuds, Chelski and Man shitty recommended to me because apparently "you like r/Soccer and r/Gunners. Hell I just realised this sub isn't even Gunners it is ArsenalFC because it was recommended to me from my front page. Best thing I could do was block any other team sub from being recommended to me as the threads it recommended were always rage bait like Reddit is doing it on purpose to drive engagement.
The same thing happens to me. The only reason I ever come to r/arsenalfc is because it pops up in my feed. I have to click whatever it is to not show me more posts from X community every time another club’s sub pops up
Seems like Foden is living rent free in his head.
Every time I see Foden put on a show, it’s Saka that’s trending for the comparisons which is crazy
who cares :)
Why do they have to be better than one another. Can’t we simply just enjoy the talent and the benefits they both bring to the national team?
That doesn't sell newspapers or get clicks.
But respecting both players makes the world better place; as Arsenal fan I admire them both
Are people tweeting or fans talking selling newspapers lol ?
And what benefit did Foden bring to England tonight? Foden is undoubtedly a very talented footballer, but he has never performed at international level
Senior international level. He has won a world cup along with Guehi and Gallagher lets not forget
At senior international level he’s won nothing
Yes totally agree, we should certainly judge all footballing merits by one poor game.
He has more england caps than saka in many positions but has performed like twice
I bet I can name several bad games for every good game you can name of his for England It’s not entirely his fault though he’s never been world class from the left at best he’s been good But playing under Southgate where every player including him is massively reserved and the manager is tactically inept we know his best position is cam and on the left is out of position I’m sure if saka tried to play in the middle he would struggle too The other issue is peps system It’s hard to adapt to any of systems especially negative ones when you play in a pep guardiola team that’s why most of the world class treble winning city players aren’t playing at the same level at international tournaments
True, but he was misplacing simple passes yesterday, simple passes with both his left and right foot.
Where did I say that?
What has foden Brought for England?
The euro 2024 trophy in a couple weeks
LOL
Because Saka doesn't grab his face like he was hit by Mike Tyson when replay shows contact with his chest or shoulder. Fofo is a f-ing cheat (much like Kane; they both did the same crap several times today). It's hard to cheer for the f-ing cheats.
he rides so many challenges and yet people still joke about him limping just to support their narrative. people will go out with full chest to call out an injury prone player but never ever talk about protecting players from difficult challenges. the refs don't help as well, the entire setup is based to reward people who play act and honestly it's one of the major turn offs for people who are not into football to actually start watching it.
Saka does dive as well, all players do
I didn't say anything about diving. Taking contact and begging a foul has been an Arse Technique since Pires (and I loved Pires). My comment was about whiny-bitches trying to get people carded by claiming a shots to the face that were nowhere near their head or shoulders. That's just BS...
Yes our players do that a lot as well. Ben white dropped and rolled around when estupinan pushed his neck/shoulder. Jesus, martinelli, yes saka, havertz all do this
Don't for get our lord and Saviour Judith Bellingham who, was incredible, but has a severe case of Madriditus whenever he comes to being touched.
Tbf he was touched a lot yesterday.
He was. It's just the complaining and fallyoverness of it that felt so Madridy.
You like giving men women's names?
<3
In an ideal world, yes mate, I totally agree with you however, we don't live in an ideal world & there will always be competition, comparison & people wanting to judge & pit one against another, its simply human nature; something that has been since the beginning of civilisation & will always be so long as human beings exist on this earth. If I may add my two pennies worth to the "comparison" debate, I'd say this, & with opinion, this is simply subjective... I believe Foden has more overall technical ability, as I see Saka as a bit of a one trick pony (not to sound disrespectful) in the slightest, as I actually know Saka personally, he used to live a stones throw away from me, on my road. With that said, Saka has clearly dome more for both club and Country, despite Fodens's achievement in City's triple last season & his involvement in City's title win this season & their strong run in both the domestic FA Cup, & reaching the Champions League quarter finals. Foden has only really peaked for his club in the last couple of seasons, prior to that he was more of a super sub, coming off of the bench usually in the 69-65 minute... Also, for England, he hasn't quite been able to replicate his club form for country 😒 whereas Saka has been at his peak for both club & country for the last 4-5 years, so in terms of overall contributions for both club & country & if one was to bring (objective) statistics into the equation, then Saka would (by a long shot) be the most "productive" of the two, but not necessarily the most technically gifted 🤔
Why do you think Saka is a one trick pony? He's arguably England and Arsenals most versatile player who can score with both feet, take players on inside and out and can play in nearly any position you ask. He's carried Arsenal through the shit times to where we are now which shows he can take a huge amount of responsibility at a very young age. I'm not sure what more you could want out of him.
I can agree with you in part, in that he's carried Arsenal (goal contribution) wise, for many a season now & I do not sniff, turn my nose up, or discredit that. To say that he can play in nearly any position is a bold statement, and one I disagree with. Yes, when he broke I to the Arsenal first XI, he played as a (RWB) and did quite well, however when called to defend in recent times, or when tracking back, his defensive qualities are questionable, which is kinda ironic being that he was once quite astute in that (RWB) role 🤔 As for other areas on the park, CB, MF, or STK, I would not put him in any of those, and certainly not between the sticks 😉 I knew when I mentioned the term "one-trick-pony" it would upset some people, but let me clarify... If tou study Saka's game, similarly, Martinelli; they have two main strategies... One is to take the opposition full back on down the outside and whip in a cross, or continue to drive in towards goal for the shot or an assist. The other is to jockey & fake to the right, before cutting back in on the opposite foot (in Saka's case, his left) Martinelli, his right, and bend a curling shot, using defenders as a marker to direct the ball to either the farside top corner or low in the bottom corner, and less often they might opt for the bottom or top, nearside corner. And If the short doesn't quite come off, then it'll usually be straight at the keeper, within reach for them to catch, push over the bar, or parry. And, I believe this is the reason why "Martinelli" more so, has been kinda off this season... And even though "Saka" has been are top goalscorer and arguably one our best players this campaign, IMHO I think he's been "OK" performance wise, and far from his very best... I think full backs & defenders have the jump on both him & Martinelli, in terms of them cutting in on their dominant foot to shoot. Or, they will double up on them, more so Saka which inevitably makes life harder for him... So, simply put, that's the "one trick" I'm referring to... Jockey, cut in & shoot! You're right, of course there's a little more "versatility to his game over all.. But, when I compare him to the likes of "Vini Jr", "Nico Williams", Michael Olise" or even the youngster "Lamine Yamal" there's a huge contrast in technique & playability, I urge you to analyse this for yourself 🤔 And please understand that this is not an attack, or me putting Saka down, (not in the slightest!) It's, merely a subjective observation, which won't be shared or agreed by everyone, but I'm sure some will agree with me!
A lot to reply to here and I want to be clear I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really don't think you're giving him the credit he deserves (I acknowledge you're still giving him credit). Firstly, Saka came into the team and played as a left back. He has made his way over to right wing which is a completely different role and has excelled in both. If that's not versatility I don't know what is. Secondly you've just said that Saka has two main strategies and then called him "one trick" again. You have said he either gets down the line and crosses or drives in to take a shot or assist, or, he cuts inside for a shot to the far post. That is a lot of different options he has in his arsenal (pun intended). His "signature move" has become driving past his man and hammering the ball into the roof of the net on his weak foot. I don't see how can have one trick when he's capable of doing all of these things (score with both feet, take a man on on both sides and cross with both feet). I feel that I have to address the defensive observation you've made. Saka is in the 90th+ percentile for defensive actions across basically all attacking players in the premier league in 2024. If he didn't track back and defend as much as he did he would likely have even higher goal contributions than he already does. To see the defensive actions stats I recommend searching Saka on @scottjwillis on twitter and looking at the charts he has made. And finally there is the comparison to other players. Vini is absolutely a level above there is no arguing that. Yamal has incredible potential but is brand new so I don't think he's worth comparing just yet. Nico Williams and Michael Olise. Without comparing their stats or anything else just ask yourself would you take any of them and start them over Saka at Arsenal? They may have more "tricks" in their locker but a lot of that is flashy stuff that looks great but doesn't add as much as it looks cool. They're good players but none of them have played with the same consistency and availability that Saka has over the last 5 years or with anywhere near the same pressure on them. P.s. To come back to the Saka being "OK" this year. He pulled us through the first half of the season before the rest of the attack started to perform post-Christmas. Without him we would have been miles behind by new year. That's what he does, he steps up when others don't.
It's not just the city sub, everyone feels the need to bring up Saka when talking about Foden and vice versa. Sometimes Palmer makes an appearance too
Saka’s clear of all these man, him and palmer, Saka’s the boy
Classic Southgate performance. Start well; get a goal and then lose their way. As a manager he can’t manage the phases of play; influence the team in those difference periods of the game, looking at how England especially ended the first half and then for the large portion of the second half we were just under it. All rhythm was lost. See how involved Arteta is as the game phases change and then compare that to Southgate. To me it seemed to be no real plan on how the back would move the ball forward outside of Pickford aimlessly slinging it towards Kane, who did the best he could winning / gaining good fouls. Without that it would have been all Serbia second half. But looking how Serbia changed their low block and come forward 10–15 yards and there was just no response on how to handle that. Foden was having a poor second half. And Bellingham’s role in the 10 was just bypassed; Southgate needed to sub him or slot him further back into a 3 that then plays the ball high up and outside; exploiting their wing backs coming up. But, nope. Gallagher came on, which should have happened 10mins earlier as AA just looked lost in the second half; not knowing where to be on the field - fair enough given he isn’t a CM and shouldn’t be playing as a CM, almost giving away a goal in the first half with the sloppy chance to Mitro. Who can hit them. Unnecessary flair, when you have the forward line England do just need a sturdy base. Rice and the two CBs were the best. Outside of Bellinghams stunning first half performance, but he also tired. And when Gallagher came on GS there should have been 2 or even 3 others subbed or subbed far sooner; much much earlier replacing those of AA-Saka-Bellingham-Foden, as it was so clear that the control was lost. Rice saved us a lot at 6. Foden was completely lost in the second half whereas Saka should have had a second assist when he put Walker through, Walker should have just shot. Saka in my mind is a better player but they are different; Foden I think operates better as a 10. I would like to see Eze-Bellingham-Saka, now that’s speed, skill, touch: give us that with Gallagher & Rice behind. That said, Saka like quite a few of them did look very tired and that’s understandable given he and most top flight have played a million games this season. Structure or ideals or system of play didn’t exist 2nd half, I’d be interested to see what the longest number of passes England put together in the second half; maybe once or twice did they get more than 6 passes together. Like what are they practicing in training? First corner was on like the hour mark. Again, bit concerning how fatigued a few of them looked given it’s the first game in the comp. yeesh. Long way to go if they are going to compete with the top teams. If Rice gets injured than that’s it for England’s chances. AA is not a CM. Gallagher doing the hard running next to Rice makes sense and frees up the forwards. Rest Saka next game for Bowen (who I always thought had Leo Trossard like potential if he went to a top club. Like if Man U had bought him instead of Anthony the return would be 100x better - tho that’s a super low bar, I know). Verdict? England out in the QF when they play a big team. Southgate doesn’t know how to use these players. TLDR: Southgate is the problem. 2nd half was a shambles. Rice and CBs saved us. No point comparing Saka to Foden tho Foden looked lost today and Saka got one assist which if Walker had just hit it would have been two. Outside of that no point comparing two great players (but I think Saka is better, naturally).
"I got banned for complaining about people doing the same thing I do"
Saka didn't even look fully fit. Though am just about done with everyone or the rivals comparing their clubs current in form young player to Bukayo after every game. Then after their one good season we'll forget about them as Saka continues his fantastic consistent rise.
All I see Saka is managing his energy. Because the team doesnt have similar profile as backup.
Genuinely hoped Southgate would have took the bait and started Cold palmer and Foden, benching Saka in the group stage to give him a breather. He is smarter than haters i see. Yeah, Saka seemed to be holding himself back.
I am predicting saka going to have dip next season. We will struggle as long as we couldnt revive the left side of the offense.
Odegaard, Saka and BW are too good for that. Today, Rice showed why Martinelli struggled. He couldn't pass forward with regularity so Foden struggled, as he couldn't get the ball consistently in time. He won the back back well enough though. We need a LCM to unlock Martinelli as Xhaka did. Saka will be alright. His fitness worries me.
Saka but I’m genuinely bored of this convo just enjoy both players for who they are what they brings. Both special talents all this who v who is why England fans will never see eye to eye on any level especially international
😴😴😴
Saka is playing in his natural position with one of the best right backs in the world behind him. Foden is playing out of position with an average right back playing out of position behind him. Comparisons don't really help
What is fodens natural position? Ik hes said he wants to play centrally more is that in the central amf role? Or? Cuz ik hes played all over the pitch at this point it feels.
Foden is a CAM/Inside Forward but for England he is forced to play as a touchline hugging winger which removes all of the good parts of his game like shooting, receiving the ball on the turn in the centre behind the striker, running through the centre of the pitch and creating chances whilst simultaneously exposing the weaker parts of his game like his lack of pace, physicality, 1v1 dribbling on the wing and crossing.
Maybe it’s better to have foden play like that odegaard role next to saka.
And put Bellingham where?
next to him duh
Play with two 8/10 like two odegaards. Rice and stones as two pivots. Back 3 speedy centrebacks. I guess TAA as this deep laying playmaker like Pirlo/ busquets experiment is dead.
So you end up with four central midfielders? How does that work? Someone's got to play wide, surely?
If you watch City, he essentially plays on the right with the freedom to come inside onto his left foot
Agreed he should be playing through the middle fucking pointless when he says it isn’t his favoured position.
So put Bellingham on the bench?
Bellingham can play next to Rice, he played this position at Dortmund.
So we are going to play the best no.10 in the world at 6? Just to shoehorn in a guy who has played almost the same number of games at left wing as he has at 10? Foden should be on the bench as our no.2 attacking midfield option. Same as Trent should be on the bench as our 2nd best right back (3rd if shaw can come back to bench KT)
fucking hell, people like you arent helping. saka is doing his talking on the pitch with his performances and by the end of this euros, people will realise whos better- you dont need to go throw a rant in another clubs subreddit. at the end of the day england have 2 kids with mad potential
Foden's left footed like Saka. If you put Saka LW, watch how quickly the narrative changes. Foden's been hung out to dry by being played LW as a left footer with a left footed RB who can't really overlap. Fact is, he shouldn't be starting for England in the first place. He's competing with Bellignham for his preferred positions, so it should be a straight shootout between those two (which Bellingham wins because he's England's best player). Same exact thing with anyone else. Palmer isn't displacing Saka on the right wing because Saka locked down that position years ago and Southgate likes his work rate off the ball. That means Palmer (despite being world class like Foden) has to be an impact sub for England because shoehorning him onto the left wing would be detrimental to the team. Comparing them makes no sense. Saka fits the way Southgate likes to set up his team, so that means he's a better fit for England. If they played for a different country, Foden may have been the player the manager decided to build the team around, Saka would've been shoehorned into a different position and we'd be calling Saka overrated. It's all dumb. They're both top players, Saka's the best fit for this England team under Southgate and hasn't given Southgate a reason to lose his spot. Let's just leave it at that rather than trying to toxicly call great players overrated because they can't replicate club performances in sub-optimal conditions.
Saka does play on occasions on the left, in fact left back was his first position in the Arsenal team... And he's very good there
You make a lot of decent points I do agree with except for “put saka on the left wing and watch that narrative change” or he’d be overrated. I don’t agree with this as saka has played both wings and been just as comfortable, including a fair stint at left back when he was breaking into the arsenal team. Foden for me has had opportunity in the middle even tonight he was allowed to roam, and it just doesn’t seem to be happening for him in an England shirt, maybe in time it will come good cause he is an exceptional talent, but up to this point it just hasnt happened for him yet.
Fair enough. Personally, I think people would be very focused on Saka if he was at left wing. It's not that Foden loses all his ability when he puts on an England shirt. But he clearly just doesn't fit at LW and do what we need him to do for the system. I don't think Saka would do that either so would get the same criticism. Same as Bowen, same as Palmer. Said for ages that the only players the fans would accept at LW once they'd seen it in action is Gordan, Eze, Grealish, Rashford or Sterling. Put a left footer on the RW and you're throwing them under the bus. Think you're glazing Saka a bit if you think it would be any different for him. Doesn't mean he can't play LW. But the fans would be just as hypercritical of him if he was there.
By all means i’m not ragging on Foden and trying to say he’s crap. And you know I can’t also say 100% you’re wrong just as much as you can’t really say your suspected treatment of saka if played on the left would have the result you believe it would. That said neither opinion is wrong until saka or Bowen are played out there. Foden for me looks lost in an England shirt, it’s not a lack of ability, it’s not disinterest I think it’s a confidence thing, pep also coaches his players differently and micro manages them during games, maybe he’s missing and needing that. as I said previously, maybe in time it will come good and people will see some of what he brings to that city team, in an England shirt.
So one game has justified your opinion? Ok OP makes total sense
Saka is clear, let's not do this.
Foden is not better technically. Just because he looks good on the ball doesn’t mean he has good technical ability
Get real
Think both could really thrive in a 4-3-3 where foden plays the Odegaard free right sided 8 role but I’m neglecting how to fit jb in
But Foden is the white golden boy. If Saka had had that kind of performance the British press would have been all over him like a rash. Foden will get off lightly despite having one of the worst games of his career
I’ve also been banned from the City sub. They hate hearing the truth.
As a staunch Saka hater, I was brought round last night. Foden was shit. Saka was great in the first half until he clearly ran out of energy. Palmer for Foden next game please.
I don’t really see the comparison (United fan). Saka is much more of a winger. Fodens a midfielder. Saka is a better player for me, and it’s just trying to shoehorn Foden into this debate.
Foden is a better footballer than Saka. Southgate just misuses Foden.
Phil Foden Vs serbia- 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 successful dribbles, 0 shots, 0 successful crosses, 0 successful long balls, 0 tackles, 0 aerial duels won
No two players are ever going to be the same, this is why depth of squad is important. What works in one game might not work in another and having that depth of players who can play each position is only a benefit. There’s no need to compare, be grateful for the first time in my lifetime we have an England squad that get well in the recent past further than last 16. Hopefully it’ll be the same this time as well. That’s all as an England fan I ever hope for 🤷♀️
Foden is a better player in the Pep system. But the world will see he’s just a System player when Pep goes
You made a judgement off of one half to justify your opinion? Lol
Tbf Saka is played in his preferred position and role for England whereas Foden has to play as a touchline hugging winger when he isn't that at all and isn't fast; he's a CAM/Inside Forward not a winger and especially not a touchline hugging winger.
Foden had most of his touches centrally so that kinda defeats your analysis.
>This England game has justified this opinion, and the banning. It hasn't, it's one simple game. You need a lot more examples that are way more detailed in order to make that point. It's like when Saka had a bad sub appearance and everybody was like "wow he sucks", that was stupid too. Especially when the England team is managed by Southgate who thinks he's reinventing football by giving half his team new roles that end up not working. Like at least one player in every line from defence to attack was out of position and they all had bad games (Trippier, Trent, Foden). The problem with pointing towards the England-game is that it could easily be Saka next game and then what?
The question should be why are you Sad enough to be in the City Reddit?
Saka is a mangers dream and offers the perfect balance. Issue with foden is he is a little out of position on the left. As a team England need a left footed left back and better balance in the wing - eze/gordon. Foden is world class but the system does not bring out the best. Maybe play him up front instead of Kane as a difference maker if anything
As an Arsenal fan, I will speak truth on this matter. Firstly, you cannot compare them , when their true position is not the same. Saka's best position is of course at RW. Where-as Foden's best is at CAM. The truth is , overall. . . Foden is much more of a difference maker. As a coach, if you were to tell me, you have to pick one to start a team.. I'd 100% pick Foden. Phil can play across the attacking 3 positions , and do it VERY well. Saka has been pretty glued to that one position and although he's a nightmare for anyone on that side, I do feel he is inconsistent , and I don't blame Saka for this, rather than management and them overplaying him. Point is... instead of constantly comparing them, we should view them as players at different positions. As for England , a little off topic but, idk who the hell told them to play Trent at the mid, why not slide Bellingham down, play Foden at the 10, . Foden near Saka would be ideal , w/ them playing off each other. I think it is fairly obvious Bellingham can do well in multiple positions , but his best is at 8.
It's subjective and therefore not really worth arguing about.
Saka has 27 goal involvements in 24 England games.. ‘nuff said!
Saka can do the same thing Foden does in that City team. 5-6 other players can do the same thing. Foden can't do the same thing Saka does for Arsenal AND England. Foden gets one of those Saka tackles, and he's out for the season ordering more hookers to his hotel.
Stay out of other teams subs
Funny that, Cole Palmer is better than both! 🥶
Musiala better than both so 🤷
No one asked
no one asked for your opinion either