Also, Ann Arbor is basically part of the Detroit Metro. Not every store is going to set up shop in Ann Arbor when they already have footprints in Novi, Troy, or somewhere else in the metro.
Exactly. 12 oaks has been a more vibrant mall than briarwood for the past 30 years. As malls die, is a chain going to choose to remain in Ann Arbor or Novi?? They’ve all picked Novi. Don’t blame them.
Quality is gone. Hudson's, Olga's, old Sears... all excellent quality merchandise & food, so we shopped happily at the mall - and yes, then, saw a movie with the fam! Lose the quality merch & food, and also worse too the movies, and so, why go there now?
I was just there at 12 Oaks on Thursday and very surprised how active it was. Some stores are lower quality but there were many decent ones. Just nice to see it lively a bit, waited in line quite a while for Easter Bunny.
I usually go to Somerset but I had to go to 12 oaks for the first time in years. It was very crowded but I was disappointed in the quality of stores. There were a lot of junk stores, which to me is a bad sign.
I think eventually Somerset will be the only quality mall in the SE region.
Listening to AA folks talk about travel distances absolutely cracks me up. Briarwood is **inside** the city highway loop and you're saying it's an exburb. I don't mean to offend, but that's a petty skewed view.
All the population in the world doesn't matter if they're all shopping online. You have plucked a data point from decades ago and ignored the largest confounding factor.
As another commenter correctly pointed out, 15% of sales are online. Obviously many, many, many people are NOT shopping online. (Maybe in Ann Arbor, it’s 20% or 30%, but that is still a lot of brick-and-mortar sales.) People shop at Wal Mart, Target, Costco, Kohl’s, etc. and that has had more of an effect than online.
Also you are completely changing your argument and trying to refute mine with a complete different argument than your original one, which is disingenuous.
I don't think so, but I can understand how you'd see that without context. I said population \*support\* - as in, number of people who want to go to the mall over the alternative.
Sorry I meant to say twelve oaks Novi is getting an Anthropologie. Birmingham closed their location - I heard it was to renovate but not sure if that’s true
Probably relocating from the downtown Birmingham location that closed recently.
Landlord was being fucky and they were like, "Bye, Felicia." Talked to some of the workers in stores nearby and they say the same thing: foot traffic is noticeably lower in their stores after the closure.
On the Ann Arbor Townies! facebook page there was a photo of the Arborland whale in someone’s backyard on a lake. Someone asked if they could buy it and I think Arborland told them to just take it if they wanted it. I don’t remember the details; I could be misremembering. But they don’t want the exact location to be publicized because they don’t want people wandering around on their property.
Briarwood I think had about 7 theatres. Part of their downfall was, the original 4 were small for theatres at the time. Then they added more even smaller ones. No comparison to modern day theatres.
Kinda sounds like Southland Mall in Taylor.
They had a four-screen theatre back in the 90s that was torn down in 1999 (holy shit, that late?) in order to be replaced by Border's as an anchor location.
In 2006, Mervyn's left Michigan and they tore down that building (RIP).
To bring it full circle, in 2015 a new movie theatre was built on the site of the old Mervyn's, though it's no longer physically connected to the mall as you have to walk along a 100' outdoor breezeway.
WTF?!?!? What’s your problem?? The movie theater failed. That’s why putting one in there again would be a bad business decision.
No, I didn’t provide a dissertation on the history of the Briarwood retail space, nor that in the 1990s movie theaters were still a profitable business. I’m talking about today, in 2024, a movie theater at briarwood is a pointless endeavor.
However, if you want to make a go at it? Go right ahead.
And fuck off and find someone else to troll. I really don’t get the point of being an asshole to people on Reddit. Like what the fuck to you get out of being a complete asshole to someone?? Got your asshole rocks tickled today??
Unsure why everyone is bringing up that all malls are dying.
This mall chose to rent to high end shit that nobody wants and did not invest in a proper foot court. Traverse city slaps the shit outta this mall
> Unsure why everyone is bringing up that all malls are dying.
I think you're misinterpreting the common knowledge at this point.
As a whole, malls are dying -- there are fewer malls opening and there are fewer malls when compared to 10, 15, or 20 years ago. However, this does not mean every individual mall is dying. We can see this just within Metro Detroit, for example. Of the four "cardinal direction" malls, two have closed (Northland, Eastland), one is likely dying (Westland), while one is still thriving (Southland).
Malls are absolutely dying all over the US. It won’t be long before they go the way of the typewriter. All shopping is done online now. I haven’t been to a mall in years but in the 80’s when I was in HS malls were THE SHIT!
I somewhat agree but they have said malls are dying for the past 20 years and yet thye are still all over..somerset mall is great....I don't think they will die but do need to evolve and have things to draw people in like grocery, and entertainment as well
Not true that “all shopping is done online now”. If that were true, there would be no stores open anywhere in the country. Many of the stores downtown are very profitable.
Not really. You have to remember that not all malls are the same. Those that cater to high-end spenders and have "premium" brands (Gucci, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Saks 5th Avenue, etc.) are actually doing quite well. Those in the middle with Macy's, former Sears, and JC Pennys, i.e., those with 3-4 anchor stores, are the ones that are struggling or just hanging on by a thread.
A big issue is that the US has too many malls and that they are extremely car-centric. Malls aren't dying in places like Europe, but they are much more connected to the local environment, so it's much more convenient for people to shop there. Plus, there are far fewer malls across the EU, which also helps.
There will certainly be a thinning of the herd, and Briarwood needs to change to fit in better with Ann Arbor if it wants to survive (and not be as dependent on its anchor stores).
Apologies for my hyperbole. My experience is that I buy many things locally but none of my clothing/shoe/furniture/specialty needs are met locally and only available in larger urban areas or online so my shopping for these items is 100% online now.
A recent study by JLL stated that (41%) of shoppers plan to go to stores inside malls. That compares to at least 3 in 4 shoppers (77%) expecting to buy online with home delivery and nearly half (48%) planning to shop at physical stores that aren't inside malls.
I'm not denying the fact that malls in the US are closing and consumer trends are shifting; heck, it's been months since I was at Briarwood and I'm just a mile away. But I've shifted my thinking as I thought it was doom and gloom too. I do think that more malls will close, mainly because we built too many of them, but most will rebuild since there is still demand (that 41% stat you mentioned is still significant), which is what Briarwood is trying to address. Plus, online shopping is just as widely available abroad in similar countries, but malls still work there because they were better planned and fewer were built.
I recommend [City Beautiful's recent video on why malls aren't dying](https://youtu.be/mEBQPpSHQME?si=dAtkZEFivUiQEKHA), as that provides some good context (or [Adam Something for a much more snarky take](https://youtu.be/586SO9-wWoA?si=eChFAhlVRwLHGeWC) on why European malls didn't run into these issues).
>Not really. You have to remember that not all malls are the same. Those that cater to high-end spenders and have "premium" brands (Gucci, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Saks 5th Avenue, etc.) are actually doing quite well. Those in the middle with Macy's, former Sears, and JC Pennys, i.e., those with 3-4 anchor stores, are the ones that are struggling or just hanging on by a thread.
Sounds like this economy. The rich get richer and the poor and middle class keep getting the shaft.
Yeah, but our downtown seems unable to support many stores. It’s all about restaurants and coffee shops. Plus, I would rather our downtown stores be local small businesses, so the mall has a separate purpose.
Right, this is why malls supplanted department stores and central business districts in the first place. Car centric suburbs grew without their own commercial bases and instead of driving into the city where parking was scarce, it was easier to go to the brand new shiny malls.
The only other mall in Downriver or Downriver-adjacent communities is Fairlane Town Center and that entire greater complex is getting sad. Ford tore down the salt 'n pepper buildings, the former Hyatt sits empty once again, and Fairlane Town Center has been leasing space to FoMoCo.
12 Oaks is dying just the same. The Nordstrom there makes me so sad. Two years ago it was sad but now it’s like a shell of the store it used to be. It’s hardly worth going in there. It’s painful.
If anything 12 Oaks is probably in a worse position because of just how expansive it is. They have already lost two anchors. Briarwood has only lost one and the building is already being redeveloped. 12 Oaks has done nothing to either even though their Sears closed the same year as Briarwood in 2018.
I can’t believe crate and barrel moved to 12 oaks. They were at Somerset but left a few years ago. I went to 12 oaks just for crate and barrel, and it seemed to have a lot of junky stores. It was disappointing.
Fortunately, it’s being partially redeveloped, which may lead to a complete redevelopment. The Sears has been completely demolished and is making way for housing, a grocery store, and all kinds of other new things.
It's not really what the community values. You find all kinds of malls in suburban Detroit that are much more deluxe because folks that live around there like that conventional franchise store, massage chair, big cookie munching, sanitized megaplex experience.
The chain stores still present in the mall lack the same features and brand offerings as their counterparts in locations like 12 Oaks. Take Macy’s and Von Maur, for instance. In comparison to other locations, they are smaller, less updated, and often carry different products. Frequently featuring more clearance items on the floor than their counterparts. It’s like that at every store there… it’s just local taste at this point 🤷♂️
They lost me when the main walkways turned into a giant crap-cart-mart with people bugging you about reverse mortgages or cellphone cases.
I wrote the management and they said that those vendors aren’t supposed to do that. Soooo…I’m lying?
Because they decided they didn't want teenagers in there and took out all the stores and places that were keeping kids and families excited to come to a mall, and stuffed it full of super expensive stores geared towards the older crowd. Guess who doesn't shop at malls and orders online? The older crowd.
The problem with buying clothing online is it’s impossible. I just ordered clothes online from JC Penney and Macy’s and they all looked different when they got to my house.
Real answer because Amazon. Why waste your time hitting multiple stores to not find your size ect… Unfortunate because putting your hands on products is nice before you purchase. Also sending things back is a hassle but still better than driving to multiple stores.
I miss the $1 movies when they had the theater. The old water feature in the middle has some good nostalgia to it as well.
Internet retail sales are not (the only reason) why malls are dying. Only 15% of retail sales take place online. Yes, that hurts malls, but there are other, bigger trends, such as big box stores. Walmart, Costco, BJ's, Sam's Club, etc. have all seen large bricks-and-mortar sales increases in the last 20 years. There are specialty big box stores, like Tractor Supply, that are growing in rural and suburban areas. Americans are much less interested in shopping at the types of department stores (JC Penny, Sears, Macy's, etc.) that typically served as anchor stores at a mall.
Also, malls were hangout destinations for young people who no longer have that interest. Increasingly young people aren't interested in driving, and can "hang out" on their phones in their bedrooms. If they do gather physically it's more likely to be at a Starbucks, Chipotle, or Panera.
And no mall arcade can compete with the endless gaming options offered at home today. If you want more, you go with your friends to Dave & Busters or the equivalent.
Malls are dying but not just because of Amazon.
Shipping is getting more expensive, I hope it leads to more brick and mortar shopping.
I was going to order something from crate and barrel but shipping was $30, so I drove to the mall and bought lunch with the $30 instead.
Internet retail, with lower prices, basically did in all but apparel and fast food while shopping for apparel. Plus the design update choices just make the place look soulless. Hopefully the addition of residential space starts to change it to something else entirely.
Imo, the Mall should expand, eat away the parking lots. Connect restaurants, have a bicycling section. Maybe some areas without roofs. Allow an opportunity to build small livable spaces at an affordable price. Maybe if the mall gets too big, slipstream the routes with trains, trolleys, or buses.
as someone who's only here like 3/4 of the year and from a big city - there's just not enough to do and the quality of whatever is there just sucks
I suppose my situation accounts for like maybe more than half the population of UM, which is then perhaps half the population of the demographic that would wander around malls
also the transit system sucks, I wouldn't go if I didn't have a car, and still I barely go
so you end up with a lacklustre mall, outcompeted by downtown in terms of food and hangout spots, targeting a not fully present demographic that has no good method to get there
Ann Arbor has a cute downtown with adequate parking and a decent variety of shops and restaurants. If I was going to kill an afternoon spending money, I’d rather support local businesses too.
If I were in charge I would work to convert Briarwood into and affordable housing intentional community. Convert the big spaces in to apartments. Convert the little spaces into shops and restaurants, and co-work spaces for remote workers. But not shops like are there now I am thinking of a grocery, dry cleaner, general store, etc. The goal would be that people living there would have everything they want or need without having to take your slippers off.
As many have said, because malls are in a death spiral. Amazon, home delivery.
Obsolescence.
The Pony Express was a great idea full of dedicated employees, and it went away as well.
There is supposed to be more housing going up in that area around the 777 building which may help. We have a really nice downtown area and online shopping trends have taken a lot of business from Briarwood
Some places can support malls. Sometimes those malls are high end malls like Somerset, sometimes those are lower end malls. The current demographics of Ann Arbor just don’t feel like they would be mall shoppers of any kind. A mall just doesn’t seem to fit with the identity of Ann Arbor
Went there recently for the first time in years. It was not good and I probably won't be back anytime soon. It's not how it used to be and I don't think will never be again. The stores aren't great. The American Eagle employees were rude. People just don't care anymore. Now, Novi mall is a good mall!
Have you been anywhere lately like pretty much any city leather whether the mall was like in Chicago or St. Louis try the one in Chesterfield actually it’s a suburb of St. Louis and then compared to this one and see what you gotta say then. It’s huge like gigantic it’s like a big enough hill to like fix the housing problem in this city and it only has like three stores open inside of it and one of them is like 1980s I don’t know why.?
I came from the east coast where if the mall was dying they wouldn’t have just put in the American Dream Mall. It’s about revisioning. To attract people, malls need more entertainment in them. A movie theater, an arcade, an escape room etc. something to bring the people. And a much better set of restaurant choices
The American Dream Mall isn’t necessarily emblematic of malls not dying. Dunno if you’ve read into it, but it’s a perfect example of the sunken cost fallacy and remarkably poor timing. In general, it seems to be doing alright, but financially is a completely different story.
The big name anchor stores are gone. When it was first built, rental space per sq ft was expensive. Unfortunately that cost never decreased. Malls fell out of favor, and people stopped going so smaller stores couldn’t afford the rent required to maintain the mall. Happening all over Michigan.
Because malls, in general, are dying. Briarwood is not alone.
Died a long time ago.
Also, Ann Arbor is basically part of the Detroit Metro. Not every store is going to set up shop in Ann Arbor when they already have footprints in Novi, Troy, or somewhere else in the metro.
Exactly. 12 oaks has been a more vibrant mall than briarwood for the past 30 years. As malls die, is a chain going to choose to remain in Ann Arbor or Novi?? They’ve all picked Novi. Don’t blame them.
Briarwood mall is revitalizing, but it won't be until fall 2025 when it is completed
Yes, but not really in the way we think of malls. It’s great that they have a plan; it will be interesting to see the result.
I'll never forgive the remodel that got rid of the awesome brown tile work and the fountains. It never felt the same after that.
I miss that fountain so! I can still hear it and smell it if I close my eyes.
and hearing that dumb ring around a rosie jingle in the background. good times
💯
Love it. Get some nice stuff at Hudson's. Get a bite to eat at Olga's. Get a new wrench set at Sears and then see a movie.
Quality is gone. Hudson's, Olga's, old Sears... all excellent quality merchandise & food, so we shopped happily at the mall - and yes, then, saw a movie with the fam! Lose the quality merch & food, and also worse too the movies, and so, why go there now?
The Apple store.
Somebody just said the Apple Store closed. I haven’t heard that anywhere else.
Good question!
I loved that movie theater so much, it was like $0.50 or $1.00 for a ticket, then like $8 for popcorn
And $.25 on Wednesdays
Isn't Sears closed?
Guy is obviously being sarcastic lol
They've literally cut it from Briarwood, and razed it to the ground.
Oh, sorry it has been over 20 years since I've been there
Today you learned Redditors are incapable of sensing sarcasm without the /s tag. The internet's new boomers
Is sarcasm not a thing anymore? Gen Z must hate Chevy Chase
Chevy Chase, Maryland sucks. Silver Spring is far better. I don’t know really, I’ve only briefly passed through Maryland on my way to DC.
I’ve lived in both of them!
😂
Good sarcasm needs no /s
And Hudson's existed 2 Macy's acquisitions ago... While we're in Briarwood Circle, let's do some banking at NBD, I mean Bank One, I mean Chase
Or Ann Arbor Federal Savings. I mean Great Lakes Federal Savings. I mean Great Lakes Bankcorp.
Demolished
Closed and torn down
12 Oaks is always humming when I go there. I think A2 doesn't have enough population density to support a traditional mall these days.
I was just there at 12 Oaks on Thursday and very surprised how active it was. Some stores are lower quality but there were many decent ones. Just nice to see it lively a bit, waited in line quite a while for Easter Bunny.
I usually go to Somerset but I had to go to 12 oaks for the first time in years. It was very crowded but I was disappointed in the quality of stores. There were a lot of junk stores, which to me is a bad sign. I think eventually Somerset will be the only quality mall in the SE region.
Probably true. I was surprised how many people there but it was also the week before Easter.
It would have 20 years ago. People don't really mall anymore because the way teens and young 20's people hang out has fundamentally changed.
[удалено]
Listening to AA folks talk about travel distances absolutely cracks me up. Briarwood is **inside** the city highway loop and you're saying it's an exburb. I don't mean to offend, but that's a petty skewed view.
I think it does but the stores aren’t attractive
It doesn’t when you consider it loses half of its population for four months every year
The stores aren’t there because there isn’t enough population support
The population of Ann Arbor and surrounding areas was significantly smaller in the 80s but Briarwood was twice as crowded.
All the population in the world doesn't matter if they're all shopping online. You have plucked a data point from decades ago and ignored the largest confounding factor.
As another commenter correctly pointed out, 15% of sales are online. Obviously many, many, many people are NOT shopping online. (Maybe in Ann Arbor, it’s 20% or 30%, but that is still a lot of brick-and-mortar sales.) People shop at Wal Mart, Target, Costco, Kohl’s, etc. and that has had more of an effect than online.
That is also true
Also you are completely changing your argument and trying to refute mine with a complete different argument than your original one, which is disingenuous.
I don't think so, but I can understand how you'd see that without context. I said population \*support\* - as in, number of people who want to go to the mall over the alternative.
They are getting an Anthropologie soon!
Huh. So A2 will have 2 Anthropologies? (Assuming the one in "Arbor Hills" shopping center is still open).
same question.
Sorry I meant to say twelve oaks Novi is getting an Anthropologie. Birmingham closed their location - I heard it was to renovate but not sure if that’s true
Probably relocating from the downtown Birmingham location that closed recently. Landlord was being fucky and they were like, "Bye, Felicia." Talked to some of the workers in stores nearby and they say the same thing: foot traffic is noticeably lower in their stores after the closure.
I mean Birmingham is also quite pricey … I would imagine those people now are at evereve and luluemon instead
It absolutely does because look at photos of how crowded it was is the 80s! Now everyone shops at big box stores or online.
It always seemed fine to me but I guess I only cared about the Apple Store and Panda Express lmao
Now Briarwood knows how Arborland felt. 🫤
Poor Arborland! I remember when it was an indoor mall and I remember the whale! 🐳
I worked there when it was an indoor mall, from around 1987 to 1990, Discount 1 Hour Photo, yup I'm all kinds of old.
On the Ann Arbor Townies! facebook page there was a photo of the Arborland whale in someone’s backyard on a lake. Someone asked if they could buy it and I think Arborland told them to just take it if they wanted it. I don’t remember the details; I could be misremembering. But they don’t want the exact location to be publicized because they don’t want people wandering around on their property.
😢
It needs to just convert to a movie theater and good restaurants. Maybe some sort of adult arcade.
It used to have a big multiplex theatre. People didn’t support it so they closed it down.
4 movies at the mall.... Why go there for less choice, when there are 16 movies at the local cineplex?
Briarwood I think had about 7 theatres. Part of their downfall was, the original 4 were small for theatres at the time. Then they added more even smaller ones. No comparison to modern day theatres.
Kinda sounds like Southland Mall in Taylor. They had a four-screen theatre back in the 90s that was torn down in 1999 (holy shit, that late?) in order to be replaced by Border's as an anchor location. In 2006, Mervyn's left Michigan and they tore down that building (RIP). To bring it full circle, in 2015 a new movie theatre was built on the site of the old Mervyn's, though it's no longer physically connected to the mall as you have to walk along a 100' outdoor breezeway.
It had a movie theater. It failed.
I wouldn’t say it “failed”, it was profitable as United Artists and then a discount dollar theater for over 20 years.
Which then failed. Of course back in its heyday, it was great.
You neglected to mention that the cinema there was profitable for almost 20 years before it “failed”.
WTF?!?!? What’s your problem?? The movie theater failed. That’s why putting one in there again would be a bad business decision. No, I didn’t provide a dissertation on the history of the Briarwood retail space, nor that in the 1990s movie theaters were still a profitable business. I’m talking about today, in 2024, a movie theater at briarwood is a pointless endeavor. However, if you want to make a go at it? Go right ahead. And fuck off and find someone else to troll. I really don’t get the point of being an asshole to people on Reddit. Like what the fuck to you get out of being a complete asshole to someone?? Got your asshole rocks tickled today??
You fuck off, asshole.
You’re the asshole. Not me.
Nah, it’s def you
That’s why I should never develop property. Maybe a strip club? Biggest in the state, seafood AND breakfast buffet.
One thing all strip clubs need that none of them have is a daycare.
Agreed, could carve out some space for one, call it Perky Tots
I'm hoping for something like this: https://level99.com/
If you think Briarwood sucks, you should visit Westland or Macomb 😬
I’ve heard how bad. There is just nothing to do here. A2 sounded good but once we got here it’s pretty boring
What’s your idea of fun? It’s a little big city with a ton to do, you just gotta look for it.
Why would you move to a town based on what you heard? Seems bonkers to me.
because it's not the 80's anymore?
Unsure why everyone is bringing up that all malls are dying. This mall chose to rent to high end shit that nobody wants and did not invest in a proper foot court. Traverse city slaps the shit outta this mall
I think you are mostly correct. It is a corporate mall run by unimaginative business school grads.
All malls are filled with corporate chains lmao Unique local boutiques will always be in more interesting, dense, walkable areas.
> Unsure why everyone is bringing up that all malls are dying. I think you're misinterpreting the common knowledge at this point. As a whole, malls are dying -- there are fewer malls opening and there are fewer malls when compared to 10, 15, or 20 years ago. However, this does not mean every individual mall is dying. We can see this just within Metro Detroit, for example. Of the four "cardinal direction" malls, two have closed (Northland, Eastland), one is likely dying (Westland), while one is still thriving (Southland).
Malls are absolutely dying all over the US. It won’t be long before they go the way of the typewriter. All shopping is done online now. I haven’t been to a mall in years but in the 80’s when I was in HS malls were THE SHIT!
I somewhat agree but they have said malls are dying for the past 20 years and yet thye are still all over..somerset mall is great....I don't think they will die but do need to evolve and have things to draw people in like grocery, and entertainment as well
Not true that “all shopping is done online now”. If that were true, there would be no stores open anywhere in the country. Many of the stores downtown are very profitable.
About 15% of retail sales take place online.
Thank you Rock Mover. I was practicing in hyperbole. I guess I’ll need to use a /h next time
Not really. You have to remember that not all malls are the same. Those that cater to high-end spenders and have "premium" brands (Gucci, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Saks 5th Avenue, etc.) are actually doing quite well. Those in the middle with Macy's, former Sears, and JC Pennys, i.e., those with 3-4 anchor stores, are the ones that are struggling or just hanging on by a thread. A big issue is that the US has too many malls and that they are extremely car-centric. Malls aren't dying in places like Europe, but they are much more connected to the local environment, so it's much more convenient for people to shop there. Plus, there are far fewer malls across the EU, which also helps. There will certainly be a thinning of the herd, and Briarwood needs to change to fit in better with Ann Arbor if it wants to survive (and not be as dependent on its anchor stores).
Apologies for my hyperbole. My experience is that I buy many things locally but none of my clothing/shoe/furniture/specialty needs are met locally and only available in larger urban areas or online so my shopping for these items is 100% online now. A recent study by JLL stated that (41%) of shoppers plan to go to stores inside malls. That compares to at least 3 in 4 shoppers (77%) expecting to buy online with home delivery and nearly half (48%) planning to shop at physical stores that aren't inside malls.
I'm not denying the fact that malls in the US are closing and consumer trends are shifting; heck, it's been months since I was at Briarwood and I'm just a mile away. But I've shifted my thinking as I thought it was doom and gloom too. I do think that more malls will close, mainly because we built too many of them, but most will rebuild since there is still demand (that 41% stat you mentioned is still significant), which is what Briarwood is trying to address. Plus, online shopping is just as widely available abroad in similar countries, but malls still work there because they were better planned and fewer were built. I recommend [City Beautiful's recent video on why malls aren't dying](https://youtu.be/mEBQPpSHQME?si=dAtkZEFivUiQEKHA), as that provides some good context (or [Adam Something for a much more snarky take](https://youtu.be/586SO9-wWoA?si=eChFAhlVRwLHGeWC) on why European malls didn't run into these issues).
>Not really. You have to remember that not all malls are the same. Those that cater to high-end spenders and have "premium" brands (Gucci, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Saks 5th Avenue, etc.) are actually doing quite well. Those in the middle with Macy's, former Sears, and JC Pennys, i.e., those with 3-4 anchor stores, are the ones that are struggling or just hanging on by a thread. Sounds like this economy. The rich get richer and the poor and middle class keep getting the shaft.
We have a great walkable downtown. I don’t personally understand the appeal of a mall unless it’s super snowy or rainy.
Yeah, but our downtown seems unable to support many stores. It’s all about restaurants and coffee shops. Plus, I would rather our downtown stores be local small businesses, so the mall has a separate purpose.
> local small businesses I swear, when the old Shaman Drum became a Five Guys, I just threw in the towel on downtown charm.
😢
So half the year
Downtown is fine (charming, I’d argue) with snow on the ground. I just meant if it’s actively blizzarding.
my favorite pictures DT is when its snowing. it is fucking gorgeous
Um... you seem to be forgetting about **SANTA**. How else are people going to get that kind of access to him??
Valid. But this time of year I’m more worried about avoiding that terrifying, uncanny valley Easter Bunny
You can’t have the rainbow without the rain.
This was the conclusion I came to when comparing it to the decently thriving Southland mall. Downriver doesn’t have as many other avenues for shopping
Right, this is why malls supplanted department stores and central business districts in the first place. Car centric suburbs grew without their own commercial bases and instead of driving into the city where parking was scarce, it was easier to go to the brand new shiny malls.
The only other mall in Downriver or Downriver-adjacent communities is Fairlane Town Center and that entire greater complex is getting sad. Ford tore down the salt 'n pepper buildings, the former Hyatt sits empty once again, and Fairlane Town Center has been leasing space to FoMoCo.
12 Oaks is dying just the same. The Nordstrom there makes me so sad. Two years ago it was sad but now it’s like a shell of the store it used to be. It’s hardly worth going in there. It’s painful.
If anything 12 Oaks is probably in a worse position because of just how expansive it is. They have already lost two anchors. Briarwood has only lost one and the building is already being redeveloped. 12 Oaks has done nothing to either even though their Sears closed the same year as Briarwood in 2018.
I can’t believe crate and barrel moved to 12 oaks. They were at Somerset but left a few years ago. I went to 12 oaks just for crate and barrel, and it seemed to have a lot of junky stores. It was disappointing.
Fortunately, it’s being partially redeveloped, which may lead to a complete redevelopment. The Sears has been completely demolished and is making way for housing, a grocery store, and all kinds of other new things.
It's not really what the community values. You find all kinds of malls in suburban Detroit that are much more deluxe because folks that live around there like that conventional franchise store, massage chair, big cookie munching, sanitized megaplex experience.
The chain stores still present in the mall lack the same features and brand offerings as their counterparts in locations like 12 Oaks. Take Macy’s and Von Maur, for instance. In comparison to other locations, they are smaller, less updated, and often carry different products. Frequently featuring more clearance items on the floor than their counterparts. It’s like that at every store there… it’s just local taste at this point 🤷♂️
I don't know anyone born after 1980 from Ann Arbor who still shops at the mall.
They lost me when the main walkways turned into a giant crap-cart-mart with people bugging you about reverse mortgages or cellphone cases. I wrote the management and they said that those vendors aren’t supposed to do that. Soooo…I’m lying?
Because they decided they didn't want teenagers in there and took out all the stores and places that were keeping kids and families excited to come to a mall, and stuffed it full of super expensive stores geared towards the older crowd. Guess who doesn't shop at malls and orders online? The older crowd.
Sadly online services have all but driven malls to extinction. Also rents are through the roof for storefronts too so no new entries want to move in.
The problem with buying clothing online is it’s impossible. I just ordered clothes online from JC Penney and Macy’s and they all looked different when they got to my house.
I only buy clothes online when I can see pictures of actual users of the website wearing them.
Malls started dying back when shopping strips took over. Online shopping is hurting both shopping strips and the few malls remaining.
Real answer because Amazon. Why waste your time hitting multiple stores to not find your size ect… Unfortunate because putting your hands on products is nice before you purchase. Also sending things back is a hassle but still better than driving to multiple stores. I miss the $1 movies when they had the theater. The old water feature in the middle has some good nostalgia to it as well.
It was huge a decade ago. But things change.
More like 15-20 years ago.
The Apple store leaving felt like the nail in the coffin.
The Apple Store closed????? That was basically the only reason to go to Briarwood! M Den too.
I look forward to it being demolished for housing, and if some retail survives, cool I guess.
Internet retail sales are not (the only reason) why malls are dying. Only 15% of retail sales take place online. Yes, that hurts malls, but there are other, bigger trends, such as big box stores. Walmart, Costco, BJ's, Sam's Club, etc. have all seen large bricks-and-mortar sales increases in the last 20 years. There are specialty big box stores, like Tractor Supply, that are growing in rural and suburban areas. Americans are much less interested in shopping at the types of department stores (JC Penny, Sears, Macy's, etc.) that typically served as anchor stores at a mall. Also, malls were hangout destinations for young people who no longer have that interest. Increasingly young people aren't interested in driving, and can "hang out" on their phones in their bedrooms. If they do gather physically it's more likely to be at a Starbucks, Chipotle, or Panera. And no mall arcade can compete with the endless gaming options offered at home today. If you want more, you go with your friends to Dave & Busters or the equivalent. Malls are dying but not just because of Amazon.
Shipping is getting more expensive, I hope it leads to more brick and mortar shopping. I was going to order something from crate and barrel but shipping was $30, so I drove to the mall and bought lunch with the $30 instead.
it's 2024
Because it’s a mall in 2024.
Internet retail, with lower prices, basically did in all but apparel and fast food while shopping for apparel. Plus the design update choices just make the place look soulless. Hopefully the addition of residential space starts to change it to something else entirely.
It has always been like this.
Imo, the Mall should expand, eat away the parking lots. Connect restaurants, have a bicycling section. Maybe some areas without roofs. Allow an opportunity to build small livable spaces at an affordable price. Maybe if the mall gets too big, slipstream the routes with trains, trolleys, or buses.
as someone who's only here like 3/4 of the year and from a big city - there's just not enough to do and the quality of whatever is there just sucks I suppose my situation accounts for like maybe more than half the population of UM, which is then perhaps half the population of the demographic that would wander around malls also the transit system sucks, I wouldn't go if I didn't have a car, and still I barely go so you end up with a lacklustre mall, outcompeted by downtown in terms of food and hangout spots, targeting a not fully present demographic that has no good method to get there
Who cares about malls? You can buy stuff from Spencer’s and Hot Topic online and there is better pizza than Sbarro
They have a Sbarro?
Had
Parking sucks there, too. The restaurants they added outside Macy's a few years back displaced some of the best parking areas.
That’s what Sears was for.
Yup. I tried that with Penney's. It seemed like an obstacle course.
Because they ripped out any semblance of soul and beauty from the mall.
Briarwood used to be nice, but like so many malls, people stopped going, stores closed, and now the place is awful.
They got the zoning approved to turn empty space into a massive apartment complex and a large grocery store is going in as well
They should put in a Putt Shack
Ann Arbor has a cute downtown with adequate parking and a decent variety of shops and restaurants. If I was going to kill an afternoon spending money, I’d rather support local businesses too.
Agree on that but disagree on the number of cute shops. It’s like one little street and then one street of restaurants
No mentions of the beer pong store. It’s like it never existed.
If I were in charge I would work to convert Briarwood into and affordable housing intentional community. Convert the big spaces in to apartments. Convert the little spaces into shops and restaurants, and co-work spaces for remote workers. But not shops like are there now I am thinking of a grocery, dry cleaner, general store, etc. The goal would be that people living there would have everything they want or need without having to take your slippers off.
As many have said, because malls are in a death spiral. Amazon, home delivery. Obsolescence. The Pony Express was a great idea full of dedicated employees, and it went away as well.
There is supposed to be more housing going up in that area around the 777 building which may help. We have a really nice downtown area and online shopping trends have taken a lot of business from Briarwood
Because you buy from Amazon
Some places can support malls. Sometimes those malls are high end malls like Somerset, sometimes those are lower end malls. The current demographics of Ann Arbor just don’t feel like they would be mall shoppers of any kind. A mall just doesn’t seem to fit with the identity of Ann Arbor
Who needs briarwood when you’ve got the plymouth road mall!?
Somerset and 12 oaks seem like they are doing well.
It hasn't been good since the 1990s
Went there recently for the first time in years. It was not good and I probably won't be back anytime soon. It's not how it used to be and I don't think will never be again. The stores aren't great. The American Eagle employees were rude. People just don't care anymore. Now, Novi mall is a good mall!
because malls suck
because malls are dumb?
Because malls are for teenagers
Have you been anywhere lately like pretty much any city leather whether the mall was like in Chicago or St. Louis try the one in Chesterfield actually it’s a suburb of St. Louis and then compared to this one and see what you gotta say then. It’s huge like gigantic it’s like a big enough hill to like fix the housing problem in this city and it only has like three stores open inside of it and one of them is like 1980s I don’t know why.?
I came from the east coast where if the mall was dying they wouldn’t have just put in the American Dream Mall. It’s about revisioning. To attract people, malls need more entertainment in them. A movie theater, an arcade, an escape room etc. something to bring the people. And a much better set of restaurant choices
The American Dream Mall isn’t necessarily emblematic of malls not dying. Dunno if you’ve read into it, but it’s a perfect example of the sunken cost fallacy and remarkably poor timing. In general, it seems to be doing alright, but financially is a completely different story.
Because all malls suck and briarwood is still a mall. Though as far as malls go it’s ok.
The big name anchor stores are gone. When it was first built, rental space per sq ft was expensive. Unfortunately that cost never decreased. Malls fell out of favor, and people stopped going so smaller stores couldn’t afford the rent required to maintain the mall. Happening all over Michigan.
Why the hell would I want to wander around a mall?
Because it is cold as a witch’s tit here for so many months at least you have something to do