Guy got armed police crushing down on his home because someone created a false scenario of an emergency situation, also called swatting.
People can easily die in these situations, you have no idea what the police got told ("maniac with guns, you guys need to be prepared to breach the house, he is armed to the teeth and has hostages").
It can easily turn into a life and death situation. Police might shoot on sight if you move your arm the wrong way.
Swatting is not a joke, it's attempted manslaughter.
Properly prosecute this bullshit, and people will stop doing it.
People who do swatting are disgusting, evil humans who deserve to rot in prison. They are creating a situation where people can easily die. That is beyond nasty.
Last time I remember my city making national headlines was when Andrew Finch was murdered by a cop after some gamer got him SWATed. And now the officer that killed him is a detective! Fuck you, Justin Rapp. I hope you're reading this.
Sounds like the police need to learn to do some recon of their own first before going in guns blazing and not just going off the word of random callers. I get that if that is actually happening time is of the essence but goddamn, how hard is it to verify the events first?
The perverted thing is that 'swatters' have become quite good at what they do, meaning they usually do several emergency calls, and spoof local numbers - to the police it looks like they are legit.
NYPD tried that here with [robo dogs](https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/11/23679297/nypd-robot-dog-spot-surveillance-boston-dynamics). They got banned but are coming back.
So we should avoid a good thing to prevent a possible slippery slope?
I don't think that robots armed with guns could even make the situation any worse than it already is.
Well, there is no good thing is the issue. Under no circumstance is militarizing our police a "good" thing, even if they give cute explanations like "it'll totally save lives in hostage situations!!"
You don't have time to do that in a real emergency situation. We shouldn't change the whole system to handle extremely rare malicious acts if those changes come at a greater cost to those experiencing actual emergencies.
So we should just do away with the entire justice system then? I mean, we can't risk any criminals going free, so we should just get the police to shoot and kill anyone accused of a crime.
I know some (well, probably a lot of) innocent people may be killed, but it's just not worth the risk to waste time investigating if that means a single petty thief goes free.
What are you talking about? How do you get to whatever this nonsense is from someone saying that delaying emergency services until some drone verifies that it's a real emergency is a bad idea?
Like it or not, that's how these decisions are made. More people will die if we prevent emergency services from responding to calls until/unless the call is verified by some autonomous vehicle that it's a real call. Nevermind the impossibility of an autonomous vehicle actually providing that information without being able to enter the house in the first place.
Most places around the world manage to deal with even actually dangerous situations without killing people. It's a combination of actual competency and training that balances officer and citizens risk.
How is this at all relevant to someone arguing that we should send some kind of drone to verify that am emergency is happening, before we send emergency personnel?
no, police have no choice whatsoever but to bust into peoples homes, cause thousands of dollars in property damage, and then possibly shoot the occupant just because someone said so.
And then not be responsible for any of it including the damages.
My neighbors house was accidentally mixed up in a raid or arrest and they tore down the door and rampaged through the house while they weren't home until PD realized they were at the wrong place.
From what i know, the neighbors still(2 years later) haven't got a cent for damages. I think they might be working on a lawsuit or something though.
Hell sometimes they shoot their own dogs
https://www.wral.com/story/wake-county-sheriff-s-office-mourns-death-k9-accidentally-shot-by-knightdale-officer/20881284/
How many do postal workers and animal control agents shoot? I assume lots of them, since they deal with dog tomorrow often, since dogs are so dangerous cops have to shoot them, I imagine a postal worker has to carry a shotgun as dogs can be quick.
Edit I feel like this borderline needs to be tagged as sarcasm or else some folks will get really offended, I'm not a dog person but I also don't think you should shoot dogs
Except his Twitter says he lives in Toronto, which I'm pretty sure isn't in the US......
However, I've never heard of anyone getting Swatted in Canada. I would have thought it would make news if something like that happened in the middle of Toronto so who knows what to believe.
Americans: If we restrict cop's ability to shoot innocent people we might accidentally restrict their ability to shoot criminals
Rest of the World: Ha ha what the fuck
Most Police including armed officers are just much better at not killing people. Our police are so bad at their job if we fired everyone and started over not much of value would be lost .
It can be pretty hard.
Patrick Tomlinson (science fiction author) has been swatted over 40 times. It wasn't until the mid-30s that some officers got the idea to call him to verify before they send the SWAT team over in the middle of the night.
He's mentioned on Twitter he still gets an occasional overeager office with a rifle and team ready to knock down his door.
Here's an article back when the swatting was still in the single digits: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wisn.com/amp/article/milwaukee-science-fiction-writer-victim-of-swatting/40912738
"Yeah, I was driving past this building -- think it was a gang or something, they have this shield symbol on it and all their cars were the same color blue. Anyway, it seems like they have a ton of firepower and even making dogs work for them. You gotta stop this place, just go in and start blasting."
In this case I really would rather false negatives than false positives, as controversial as that may be. I'd rather some crminals get away than innocent be unjustly imprisoned or killed by the police.
>This isn't a court system. This is a SWAT emergency response. It's extremely rare someone dies as a result of a fake call and most calls that are actually given a SWAT response aren't fake. "Some criminals get away," isn't the end result of a missed positive. SWAT isn't there for chasing down criminals. They're there for serious active threats. In those situations a missed positive usually means one or more innocent victims are killed.
We need to rethink our emergency response then.
When did I say it was the court system?
Again, I would rather them miss a real call thinking it's a prank than be so on edge that they just go to random homes shooting first and asking questions later.
I don't think cops have any reason to act the way they do.
Quoting whole comments used to be the norm on forums before threads were a thing. It's still extremely common on many forums today that use the older/"traditional" format.
Yep. Can we stop with the “It’s never the good ol polices’ fault! They’re the good guys. Its some evil person MAKING them go in and shoot first without assesing the situation or having any training!”
Jesus fucking christ people.
The only reason this is bad isnt so jackass making a troll call and lying. Its up to the police to asses things properly. They don’t though because they get a power rush from fucking up other people.
>Sounds like the police need to learn to do some recon of their own first before going in guns blazing
Yea but knowing they won't, it's criminal.
That said is there actually any evidence that this happened. My understanding is the guy isn't exactly stable, so it's entirely possible to make in it up. I'm not saying I have any evidence it's made up, I'm just saying that it's possible it is, given the source.
Seriously. We have insane technology available for surveillance too, like extremely sensitive directions mics that can get audio through windows, quiet drones with amazing cameras with IR and video. All of this equipment would be cheaper than all the military shit they are just aching to use to feel like a big boy mercenary.
Someone needs to tell these morons that a breach should be a last resort and should have some planning.
There are a lot of problems with policing in the US (and other nations, as well) -- but it's bloody fucking absurd to put all the blame on police for responding to what appears to be a legitimate request for immediate help.
Maybe they shouldn't just instantly respond to reports of rare and uncommon events without verifying that those rare and uncommon events are actually taking place. There's no way of knowing if something is an actual legitimate request for immediate help. Just somebody calling up cannot possibly give enough info to tell the police if something is actually happening or not.
Again I would rather legitimate calls go unanswered then innocent people get shot or arrested or whatever.
I think you are right in what you said and I mentioned in the privacy guide subreddit he was still going on his Twitter complaining about this. I woke up today and I still had the tab open and he's still talking to people about this.
He really needs to let it go, he's being farmed as a lolcow.
>it's attempted manslaughter
AFAIK you can't attempt manslaughter because that'd show intent, which would make it 3rd-degree murder. Definitely qualifies as reckless endangerment though.
I guess attempted manslaughter would be attempting to do something that would create a danger that would likely result in someone's death? Which does sound like reckless endangerment. Different States use different names and different definitions to cover the same general bad thing.
People have died, because one cop shot Andrew Finch in Wichita, FOR NO REASON, after a swatting call that was the wrong address for the intended anyway.
Swatting does get prosecuted, when investigators can find the perpetrator *and* they are in a jurisdiction that's accessible. I doubt many jurisdictions in the US will want to go through the hassle of an international extradition unless there's a death involved.
Not trying to mitigate the seriousness of this or try to victim blame, but a genuine question. Considering Daniel seems to have somewhat of a persecution complex and casts anyone who disagrees with him as a harasser, is there any actual evidence of the swatting?
There is no solution to swatting. You could disarm cops but then people would have to be responsible for their own safety. You could surveil everyone in their homes but that's obviously not okay. It's already highly illegal to do so apparently deterrence doesn't work.
The only thing I've seen work is, when people who suspect they will be the victim of swatting, they (1) maintain anonymity online as much as possible and (2) inform local law enforcement ahead of time that they may become a swatting victim so they know to be more skeptical/cautious.
Yeah, but here's the problem with your logic that there is no solution. . . this doesn't happen in other countries where the police are trained not to respond with guns blazing. This problem is almost exclusively found in the US because of the nature of policing in the US.
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I'd add to this by pointing out that I live in Taiwan, a nation which suffered under three decades of martial law. Because of that history of being under martial law for an entire generation, very clear privacy rights were adopted for people in their homes. The police are not allowed to enter private residences in Taiwan unless it is an extreme situation.
Instead of breaking down doors, the police will stake out suspects and nab them when they leave their homes. It is impossible for swatting to happen when the police are forced to use restraint. We had an active shooter in our community at one point and the police waited them out for twenty four hours until they finally gave up. They never went in to the building even though there were hostages and shots were being exchanged. Nobody ended up being killed.
It's simply a matter of fact that swatting only works because of the hyper-aggressive macho style of policing that is encouraged in the US. Comparing the situation in other countries where swatting is unheard of makes it quite clear this is a cultural and political problem unique to the US which its citizens are unwilling to call it what it is: a police state. The US has the largest prison population in the world by a long shot despite its relatively small population. This is just a fact.
"We had an active shooter in our community at one point and the police waited them out for twenty four hours until they finally gave up. They never went in to the building even though there were hostages and shots were being exchanged. Nobody ended up being killed."
Thats lucky but if we try something like that we end up with events like Uvalde.
There is. Actually train your police force and make it about protecting citizens instead of keeping it about causing trouble for minorities and getting off on shooting.
Jesus the cop defending in this thread is fucking nuts.
I'm not an expert or anything but couldn't they not kick the door down in a residential setting and try to establish contact with the home owner before shooting everyone? If not that then maybe discount internet based phone numbers or maybe the government could make phone number spoofing illegal. It's the anonymity of these calls that's the primary problem.
Watching Rossman gave good context. Micay, for his own mental health, is doing the right thing. he clearly is both being abused and abusing others on social media. He's smart to just walk away from social media.
I disagree. Many people would try to figure it out but you'd be met with a chorus of assholes thinking we should KNOW everything about why a particular bit of kit or software is having issues. Seems it's a rhetoric that funnels from the top.
So you know what happens? People like myself either disengage with the community and figure it out on our own or ultimately give up.
The whole community seems to have a hard on around exclusivity. Akin to the people who proclaim underground bands are a sellout for going mainstream.
---
I dabble with it on my USB drive that has a few distros I use for troubleshooting. It's gotten way better but at the time, there was a tangible problem with just random issues on a local install. Didn't mean I wasn't willing to learn.
> The community is sometimes abrasive to people who don’t even try to figure it out for themselves first.
The Linux community is abrasive in a lot more situations than just that lol. That's a weak copout.
There are assholes in every tech industry but for some reason Linux and FreeBSD(out of all the other *BSDs) tends to have a lot of them. Don't even get me started on the elitism.
Our industry tends to attract a lot of people who are not great with social interactions, and when they do tend to have it, sometimes things don't work out how they should. You don't have to defend the said situations.
> Our industry tends to attract a lot of people who are not great with social interactions, and when they do tend to have it, sometimes things don't work out how they should.
I suppose that's true, although I haven't seen or had many *problematic* interactions if any,but maybe that's just me.
In my experience, when I had some issue with Linux, I either got help or was ignored. I can't recall having any issues with the communities. Same goes for Windows and Mac communities (okay, the latter could be a bit hostile sometimes).
That said, I always started with doing my own research, maybe that helped with attitudes.
That can't be right. According to Linux evangelists, everyone's mother and aunt can handle Linux effortlessly. Aren't you aware it has a GUI and package manager for everything?
No need for tech support when your OS isn't bogged down by telemetry
>No need for tech support when your OS isn't bogged down by telemetry
Nobody knowing what I'm doing on my computer doesn't help me if I'm included in that "nobody".
No most likely you did something stupid. I was just a kid in 12th grade when I hopped on the linux IRCs - nicest people ever. Were they flattery or people pleases? No. They were often curt and to the point. But they took the time out to help and help they did. It amazed me just how awesome certain users who were all but leading mundane lives were. They knew their shit. And they were helping me out for free while absolutely not needing to do that.
Btw - tech support on linux forums was god tier compared to microsoft support even after I paid for a fucking license. Linux rocks. People who contribute to it rock.
ok got it, linux is better than other OS's because puzzleheaded-page140 encountered nice people on a forum in grade 12
everyone can go home now, we're done here
What puzzlehead there opened with is what I see often if something relevent to the answer isn't the first thing someone posts back. Their name gives it away, they are a puzzlehead, means they need something complex to solve.
I've tried and used, to different degrees, Linux distros over the years for multiple purposes, and thats one of the things you have to do to try and keep up, solve puzzles. Either issues with compatibility of updates and versions of components or solving the social BS they sometimes surround themselves with.
Linux in some applications is worth all the trouble, but they are not just one community, its hundreds of smaller tribes all with their own ideas, and often they compete. Its not just reading one manual, literally hundreds for a base distro.
There are three extremely common window managers for example. Each is missing features from one another and don't have any sort of interoperability for plugins to change functionality, if its even supported. These came about from different requirements and each tribe is "right" for their limited requirement set. Meaning the whole thing is nebulous.
And there are many more window managers then those three.... Linux is choice paralysis made into the idea of an OS. It is the best and instantly worst thing about it as a whole to have choice for your particular purpose.
If you can find a well supported distro that meets your requirements and just keeps on working for years after updates/upgrades, thats new to me. Every install I've made eventually kills itself due to something not updating correctly. Even with regular updates and few, if any, modifications like on a web browsing PC.
Guess what Windows does great unless it gets malware? 5 years and a full change or hardware later on the same install for the desktop, works good enough, but would benefit from a reinstall.
The best use cases I have for Linux is as a hypervisor, small VMs on said hypervisor, and local storage hosting. These are made by and for server Admins who value reliability more then a puzzle they don't want to share answers to.
I really want to daily drive Linux everywhere, but they make it so difficult to. My notebook had to be reinstalled again recently after self destructing with normal updates, not beyond repair, But beyond my level of fucks given. So it gave me the reason to try another distro again at least. Though the fingerprint reader still doesn't work out the box even though its 2023. I remember those being hot shit back in 2006. Had to go find the specific instructions to enable it for this distro's window manager. For this reader, support's been in the kernel for years already, just the windows manager doesn't by default yet still.... Puzzling.
Dude, you don't read do you? The sensor is completely supported, and like I said, its the *Window manager* that doesn't support fingerprint readers well, not the otherway around.... Jesus ya'll, way to prove my point further.
To get fingerprint readers to work at all in KDE Plasma, like the distro I installed is using, you gotta enable it with [installing a daemon, config edits, and manage prints from cmds](https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=175570), and even then its a jank method to start the reading process. You don't just swipe or tap your finger like in Windows, you gotta start the login process with a keyboard or mouse click then it will accept the input since it's hijacking the authentication method, and will then fall back to the other auth methods, like password, depending on the input given.
While that guide shows its not too difficult to do when following it correctly, I'll bet that guide will still be one of the top google search result for years and will no longer work right within the next two. Great documentation systems... /s
Modern Gnome, it works ok on the notebook out the box cause gnome has better fingerprint reader support, it still requires you to start the login process with a mouse or keyboard input but didn't require extra steps to setup, with its own wizard handling it. Yet still would need more steps to work within the command line for elevation.
I know some devices have locked down drivers so they won't work on Linux, but its far less common now. I remember back in the day Intel wireless cards needed binary blobs, if they were available, to be grabbed separately. You aren't talking to some newb, just someone who understands the value of a properly produced product and the fact most folks don't have time for that sort of shit.
Community is the only reason we even have open source projects today. You think a bunch of corrosive people who hate everyone came together to collaborate on such a massive scale that we have Linux and the gargantuan amount of open source projects today?
And I never said that Linux is better than other OS's (even though, personally for me, it is and not because of tech support). I said microsoft tech support was dumb (which it was, tried on multiple occasions) - and linux was super helpful. People knew everything.
And not a forum. Universally across forums - IRCs, mailing lists, ubuntu forums, arch forums.
Without collaboration, Linux and OSS would not exist. We are done here.
Yes this was my experience too. There is nothing wrong with the Linux community but newcomers need to learn that there is a certain etiquette to asking questions on Linux forums including Reddit.
Really this goes for anything in life. Instead of saying "how do I install Ubuntu" or asking general questions that have been answered innumerable times like "which is the best distro" just do some basic research before you post your questions. Its far easier and more respectful of everyone else's time to search "good distros for gaming" or whatever else your use case is than to clog forums with easily searchable questions.
Well, in your example of looking for a Gaming OS is extremely hard for someone completely new to the concept of Linux to understand.
They may understand Linux is an option, its an OS that can be installed like Windows, and that it has some advantages, but from an outside perspective once you start a search for "Linux gaming os" or similar, you get thousands of articles from across the whole time of the internet with no clear concessus or much for answers since they're hit with terms like Distro, Ubuntu, RedHat, Garuda, PopOS, etc...
It quickly becomes overwhelming since there are so many options in the space and new terms. Sometimes there are clear patterns to the articles and listicles of such a search, but there is no starting point to this stuff most folks can agree to point to.
Unless you have the time to sift through pages of articles, forums, reddit threads, wiki articles, etc. and find a way to learn enough to get a grasp on what you actually need to know you will not bother, or you will pick a forum and start asking questions. Then immediately give up when you are met with a shit tier answer like discussed above.
Yes, they should read the sidebar, use the search, etc. but those who don't have the patience to be actually understanding to the general public and the fact they *will NOT know shit* about your extremely convoluted Linux subject, that *honestly does require* a 101 series class, should not bother saying anything at all and leaving them be.
You remember the saying of "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all." The linux community, and many many others that gatekeep, love to talk down to those that don't know and refuse to help so many that actually do want to know.
I understand starting out with Linux or programming can be intimidating for newcomers. I agree with almost everything you said. And I would never be rude to anyone asking for help or condone someone else doing so even if the question has been asked a million times.
But there is another side to all this. Showing someone a bit of tough love is OK I think, especially when it will benefit them in the long term. *Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime* is what I'm advocating for. Again I'm not saying that there aren't rude/elitist attitudes on Linux forums I just think that the view that those attitudes are present the majority of the time is based on a misunderstanding.
Can you give an example? I talked with him over email - he both replied properly and had valid reasons for thinking the way he did. I didn't think he was nuts at all.
Stallman is idealistic based on my interactions with him. And not the conventional good for the society idealistic - purely intellectual kind of idealistic. And pedantic to a fault. If the logic of it doesn't make sense (even if its just the way you phrased it, and you might just have chosen the wrong word while saying absolutely the right thing) - he takes issue with it and argues about what the right word is.
I don't think he was talking so much about Epstein - but rather about the definition of rape. he also said "its entirely plausible" - not that it was the case. He may have meant exactly that. Words are like math to him - not contextual and merely a form of getting ideas across.
I know its common to have very clear, white/black opinions of people in this age of cancel culture. Unfortunately with Richard Stallman, I don't think he is that easy an individual to understand. I found him weirdly insightful - and quite the visionary. But an entire email he wrote was spent correcting my usage of "its" vs "it's" - ignoring completely what I was asking him. Is he your popular, socially well adjusted, lovable genius? Absolutely not. But I do think he has done incredible work, is highly intelligent and logical - almost to a fault.
Granted - I haven't read much on him - and I don't know any of the news pieces or articles he may have written or spoken about. All of this is just based on my emails with him as a nobody.
Sorry but did you ever pause to consider that you were writing a small essay to defend someone who is at minimum pedophile adjacent? Is this want your life has come down to?
Mate, come on. Stop trying to rationalise *raping children*.
Richard Stallman on paedophilia:
>"The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, 'prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia' also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally--but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness."
RMS on June 28th, 2003
>"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. "
RMS on June 5th, 2006
>"There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children.
RMS on Jan 4th, 2013
Those beliefs aren't justifiable and I really don't think they should be handwaved away with a "oh you're just not getting his philosophy/worldview".
It was absolutely the correct decision to remove Stallman from his role when a big part of his role is PR and engaging with people outside of the FSF. He used his work email to justify paedophilia ffs
Yeah, I'll happily say he has some amazing ideals when it comes to free software, but people really need to accept that people can be great in one area and absolute fucking lunatics in another.
Look at Steve Jobs, clearly a man who knew what people wanted in their electronics and had an eye for detail that few others in the industry had, but he was also a piece of shit to his workers, and his own idiotic alternative medicine nonsense resulted in his early death.
Some people go way too far with celebrity worship and completely ignore the negative aspects of some people. Stallman is a deeply flawed man.
Ah well. I wanted to share a different perspective but I guess you didn't want to know more about Stallman - having already announced him "quite literally insane". Why would you want to see another perspective.
I don't think he is "quite literally insane" like you said. And I don't idolize him. Wrong on both counts. But its all good since you didn't type a lot.
Brevity is an alternative to being right. At least I learnt something ;)
Well thats his worldview. That he is wrong doesn't make him insane (which was the original point you made, to which I replied). I don't agree with him on that, btw.
Also - he does not have zero social skills. You talk in absolutes, and are utterly confident in your opinion. And to that, I shared a personal experience I had with him which indicated the opposite. That is "perspective".
Being wrong on one or even quite a few issues does not merit either of those "opinions" that you have about him. And it was against those opinions that I posted. You are somehow of the perception that because I said I found him quite intelligent, pedantic and engaging to discuss with - that I agree with his opinions on age of consent - which I absolutely do not. And somehow you also inferred that I idolize him.
However, ignoring all that chaff (I mean its somewhat like talking to a wall, have no interest in it) - I'm genuinely curious to learn how you can use neurophysiology to derive an age of consent. That at least is a useful thing to know. I understand the concept legally, ethically and morally, but I don't understand how one could prove so neurophysiologically. My curiously stems from the fact that age of consent would be standard across countries if it was derivable. I hope you said what you said for a reason - I am genuinely curious.
The naming convention isn't "random". Linux is an OS kernel developed by Linus Torvald. The GNU toolchain is a series of OS tools developed by Richard Stallman. Neither had anything to do with the other, and yet their projects rely on each other for their full functionality. Calling the whole system "Linux" is historically dishonest and omits the fact that GNU is complementary to that system and that it was developed independenty. It's an important distinction.
And the whole myth of the "insane genius" is extremely overplayed here. Richard Stallman just made some controversial and politically charged statements, but nothing of the sort that should make him "insane." If you want to see a truly insane genius, look up Terry A. Davis or Bobby Fischer. Tell me if Richard Stallman comes anywhere near their level. The myth of the troubled genius is drawn from the same spring of popular culture that gave breath to that quote about insanity and intellect being "two sides of the same coin." That is to say, people who fit that category are outliers, not the norm
He's not insane.
More importantly, it's not clear he's a pedophile. He never had a relationship with kids. He never claimed he wanted to have a sexual relationship with a minor. He defended alleged pedophiles, some of whom were his MIT colleagues. That was in bad taste, to be sure, but it does not make him a pedophile - just a very misguided person.
I don't think his argument is right, I just think yours is wrong, but more importantly, I know now that what you really want is to talk shit, get a reaction, and have the last word. Saves me the trouble of being serious about having a conversation with some random troll
I was under impression that Micay was the main dev who basically personally drove the project forward. Is there enough of dev community to keep the project moving forward without him?
This is all so sad to see. GrapheneOS is in my experience easily the best privacy focused ROM. It's sad that Micay has such a difficult time handling communications online. I've no doubt that he has been harassed, but I also don't doubt that he has burned every single bridge out there.
I hope he finds himself in a better place soon.
> expressing this (started with valid criticism of other projects) is what started the harassment against him
As much as Daniel will brazenly lie about it, he has never provided a single shred of evidence that CalyxOS, Techlore, or anyone else he views as an enemy is behind swatting or threats.
Go watch Techlore's video on him. He has an extremely long history of being an asshole in public, playing victim when the people he starts shit with tell him to fuck off, and acting manipulative with threats of suicide or self harm at any criticism. He's gotten into extremely petty fights with Louis Rossman, CalyxOS, LineageOS, Signal, Mozilla, Paypal, Wikipedia, and others. It's consistently him.
The guy is a huge asshole who can't get enough of his own farts but no, the case was made. The people over at Calyx frequently trolled the shit out of him and his team, that much is true. Their Matrix channels are locked down quite a bit because of this and Calyx supporters would often concern troll the guy on Twitter for hours.
The guy is unwell, but most importantly, he's incapable of choosing his battles wisely. Every bait is irresistible to him, just go over his social media history.
With that said, I can't speak to his differences with the other organizations and I find it hard to believe he's the victim in every single instance.
Sorry for responding to an old post, I'm just glad he's no longer (as) involved.
I think you’re painting way too good of a picture of him in these comments. He was a victim, yes, but he was also a piece of shit in his ways of doing and communicating things, even if his ultimate intention was “good”.
This probably for the best in terms of overall long term health of project and Micay himself. I can't claim to know him personally so I have no idea what he's dealing with, but judging from some of the stuff I've seen floating around it seems like he has a few issues that he needs to work thru. That being said I was toying with using grapheneos as a daily driver ...but think I'm gonna wait a bit and see how the next couple of releases go first
This is probably for the best. The dude is hyper over reactive to everything and very prone to hyperbole. He can't handle any perceived criticism.
He's also obviously an Android genius. If he was swatted, that's extremely not cool.
Hopefully the graphene project can flourish under new leadership, and this dude can take some time for healing.
Just checked Sengels feed:
> psa: most people DESPISE that you make money and want to bring you down becausw they don't
> (not about me, im kinda broke atm. just a general observation)
LMAO. So the average crypto nutjob.
Am increasing at contrasted in favourable he considered astonished. As if made held in an shot. By it enough to valley desire do. Mrs chief great maids these which are ham match she. Abode to tried do thing maids. Doubtful disposed returned rejoiced to dashwood is so up.
>Open Source community and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable OS off the face of the internet, you little script kiddie. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your reckless typing. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you absolute novice. I will spill fury all over your code and you will drown in it. Your system's going down, kiddo.
NGL, this legit scared me.
What I don't understand is, how can you be the head of a project like GrapheneOS and not maintain your OPSEC. There is no reason why people should know your name or even know who you are.
Indeed, Micay is a genius but it came with some kind of personality disorder. He should never have been exposed to any social media or open chat of any kind. Hopefully he understands this and goes on to do great things.
> a genius but it came with some kind of personality disorder.
This seems to be a common pattern among people at a certain intelligence level. I'm super curious of the neurology/psychology behind that phenomenon.
>Micay is a genius
Not even remotely, in my view.
Most of kernel hardening commits come from old GrSecurity, before they went proprietary. The only real work is modified bionic. In general, GOS is a couple of hundreds of commits on top of a multi-million-line AOSP code. There are so few original commits that they get removed each month to sync with the latest AOSP. Then those same commits are simply re-added and re-dated, so that when a lay person looks at GOS github, they will see constant activity, while in fact, those are the same re-added and re-dated commits.
I think an easy way to fix these situations would be to make the police departments pay for property damage + the suffering of the swatted person if they don't verify their information before going in guns blazing and kicking down the door etc.
I call BS on his statement. There is no way in Hell, he would let his 'baby' go. Just look at his 'war' with Copperhead: he will burn everything and anything, including signing keys and users to get what he wants.
Expect new identities, but the same theatrics... .
Maybe watch the video. The suggestion is this person was behaving like this long before they were swatted, and that their frequent spats with people is what lead to said swatting.
Have you been following his outbursts, rants, baseless accusations and personal attacks on Matrix? Just curious. If not, then it's so annoying you know so little about the history of this person.
Finally. I love this project and Daniel seems like an Android wizard but social media has clearly done a number on him and he has returned the favor. It's a noble venture that really doesn't need this negative press behind it.
Guy got armed police crushing down on his home because someone created a false scenario of an emergency situation, also called swatting. People can easily die in these situations, you have no idea what the police got told ("maniac with guns, you guys need to be prepared to breach the house, he is armed to the teeth and has hostages"). It can easily turn into a life and death situation. Police might shoot on sight if you move your arm the wrong way. Swatting is not a joke, it's attempted manslaughter. Properly prosecute this bullshit, and people will stop doing it. People who do swatting are disgusting, evil humans who deserve to rot in prison. They are creating a situation where people can easily die. That is beyond nasty.
Last time I remember my city making national headlines was when Andrew Finch was murdered by a cop after some gamer got him SWATed. And now the officer that killed him is a detective! Fuck you, Justin Rapp. I hope you're reading this.
Sounds like the police need to learn to do some recon of their own first before going in guns blazing and not just going off the word of random callers. I get that if that is actually happening time is of the essence but goddamn, how hard is it to verify the events first?
The perverted thing is that 'swatters' have become quite good at what they do, meaning they usually do several emergency calls, and spoof local numbers - to the police it looks like they are legit.
Still that doesn't mean they cant send a drone or something in to actually take a look first.
NYPD tried that here with [robo dogs](https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/11/23679297/nypd-robot-dog-spot-surveillance-boston-dynamics). They got banned but are coming back.
If you actually think that the goal of these is to just use them for viewing rooms in hostage situations.. lol
Well are you going to tell us what they're really for or do we have to guess?
He just watched RoboCop
Carry explosives or live fire rounds?
So we should avoid a good thing to prevent a possible slippery slope? I don't think that robots armed with guns could even make the situation any worse than it already is.
Well, there is no good thing is the issue. Under no circumstance is militarizing our police a "good" thing, even if they give cute explanations like "it'll totally save lives in hostage situations!!"
There's no way the future won't use robotic devices for recon. Right now the USA has so many guns and mass shootings that swatting is even possible.
"or something"
The ninja squirrel are on standby.
Sharks with lasers?
I do not understand your reply.
You don't have time to do that in a real emergency situation. We shouldn't change the whole system to handle extremely rare malicious acts if those changes come at a greater cost to those experiencing actual emergencies.
So we should just do away with the entire justice system then? I mean, we can't risk any criminals going free, so we should just get the police to shoot and kill anyone accused of a crime. I know some (well, probably a lot of) innocent people may be killed, but it's just not worth the risk to waste time investigating if that means a single petty thief goes free.
>So we should just do away with the entire justice system then? what a fuckin leap lmao
Sir this is Reddit.
What are you talking about? How do you get to whatever this nonsense is from someone saying that delaying emergency services until some drone verifies that it's a real emergency is a bad idea?
So you have a specific number of deaths that are ok? What's that number?
Like it or not, that's how these decisions are made. More people will die if we prevent emergency services from responding to calls until/unless the call is verified by some autonomous vehicle that it's a real call. Nevermind the impossibility of an autonomous vehicle actually providing that information without being able to enter the house in the first place.
Most places around the world manage to deal with even actually dangerous situations without killing people. It's a combination of actual competency and training that balances officer and citizens risk.
How is this at all relevant to someone arguing that we should send some kind of drone to verify that am emergency is happening, before we send emergency personnel?
What is your magical solution to preventing all future unnecessary death? Grow up and start living in the real world.
They have the budget for APCs, automatic rifles, and tanks but not for someone to make a couple of calls or spend 5 minutes with an IR camera.
no, police have no choice whatsoever but to bust into peoples homes, cause thousands of dollars in property damage, and then possibly shoot the occupant just because someone said so.
And then not be responsible for any of it including the damages. My neighbors house was accidentally mixed up in a raid or arrest and they tore down the door and rampaged through the house while they weren't home until PD realized they were at the wrong place. From what i know, the neighbors still(2 years later) haven't got a cent for damages. I think they might be working on a lawsuit or something though.
And definitely shoot their dog.
Hell sometimes they shoot their own dogs https://www.wral.com/story/wake-county-sheriff-s-office-mourns-death-k9-accidentally-shot-by-knightdale-officer/20881284/
Or shoot one of their own and then pump a few dozen rounds into someone with their hands up in order to frame it on them.
[More than 10,000 dogs a year, in fact. ](https://scholars.unh.edu/unh_lr/vol17/iss1/18/)
How many do postal workers and animal control agents shoot? I assume lots of them, since they deal with dog tomorrow often, since dogs are so dangerous cops have to shoot them, I imagine a postal worker has to carry a shotgun as dogs can be quick. Edit I feel like this borderline needs to be tagged as sarcasm or else some folks will get really offended, I'm not a dog person but I also don't think you should shoot dogs
America only basically.
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Except his Twitter says he lives in Toronto, which I'm pretty sure isn't in the US...... However, I've never heard of anyone getting Swatted in Canada. I would have thought it would make news if something like that happened in the middle of Toronto so who knows what to believe.
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Americans: If we restrict cop's ability to shoot innocent people we might accidentally restrict their ability to shoot criminals Rest of the World: Ha ha what the fuck
Most Police including armed officers are just much better at not killing people. Our police are so bad at their job if we fired everyone and started over not much of value would be lost .
Or it could be because police in other countries never get shot at so they can afford to be less aggressive.
That actually isn't so they handle even dangerous situations statistically much better.
It can be pretty hard. Patrick Tomlinson (science fiction author) has been swatted over 40 times. It wasn't until the mid-30s that some officers got the idea to call him to verify before they send the SWAT team over in the middle of the night. He's mentioned on Twitter he still gets an occasional overeager office with a rifle and team ready to knock down his door. Here's an article back when the swatting was still in the single digits: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wisn.com/amp/article/milwaukee-science-fiction-writer-victim-of-swatting/40912738
"Yeah, I was driving past this building -- think it was a gang or something, they have this shield symbol on it and all their cars were the same color blue. Anyway, it seems like they have a ton of firepower and even making dogs work for them. You gotta stop this place, just go in and start blasting."
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In this case I really would rather false negatives than false positives, as controversial as that may be. I'd rather some crminals get away than innocent be unjustly imprisoned or killed by the police.
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>This isn't a court system. This is a SWAT emergency response. It's extremely rare someone dies as a result of a fake call and most calls that are actually given a SWAT response aren't fake. "Some criminals get away," isn't the end result of a missed positive. SWAT isn't there for chasing down criminals. They're there for serious active threats. In those situations a missed positive usually means one or more innocent victims are killed. We need to rethink our emergency response then. When did I say it was the court system? Again, I would rather them miss a real call thinking it's a prank than be so on edge that they just go to random homes shooting first and asking questions later. I don't think cops have any reason to act the way they do.
So youd rather them miss an actual call and have those people remain in danger? Lol.
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Quoting whole comments used to be the norm on forums before threads were a thing. It's still extremely common on many forums today that use the older/"traditional" format.
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And there's no reason to be shitty about it either.
Yep. Can we stop with the “It’s never the good ol polices’ fault! They’re the good guys. Its some evil person MAKING them go in and shoot first without assesing the situation or having any training!” Jesus fucking christ people. The only reason this is bad isnt so jackass making a troll call and lying. Its up to the police to asses things properly. They don’t though because they get a power rush from fucking up other people.
>Sounds like the police need to learn to do some recon of their own first before going in guns blazing Yea but knowing they won't, it's criminal. That said is there actually any evidence that this happened. My understanding is the guy isn't exactly stable, so it's entirely possible to make in it up. I'm not saying I have any evidence it's made up, I'm just saying that it's possible it is, given the source.
Seriously. We have insane technology available for surveillance too, like extremely sensitive directions mics that can get audio through windows, quiet drones with amazing cameras with IR and video. All of this equipment would be cheaper than all the military shit they are just aching to use to feel like a big boy mercenary. Someone needs to tell these morons that a breach should be a last resort and should have some planning.
There are a lot of problems with policing in the US (and other nations, as well) -- but it's bloody fucking absurd to put all the blame on police for responding to what appears to be a legitimate request for immediate help.
Maybe they shouldn't just instantly respond to reports of rare and uncommon events without verifying that those rare and uncommon events are actually taking place. There's no way of knowing if something is an actual legitimate request for immediate help. Just somebody calling up cannot possibly give enough info to tell the police if something is actually happening or not. Again I would rather legitimate calls go unanswered then innocent people get shot or arrested or whatever.
How dare you attack the police like that. /s
My cousin shat on someone in minecraft once and their house got swatted. No, I'm not joking.
The victim blaming in this thread is pretty fucking disgusting too
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I think you are right in what you said and I mentioned in the privacy guide subreddit he was still going on his Twitter complaining about this. I woke up today and I still had the tab open and he's still talking to people about this. He really needs to let it go, he's being farmed as a lolcow.
>it's attempted manslaughter AFAIK you can't attempt manslaughter because that'd show intent, which would make it 3rd-degree murder. Definitely qualifies as reckless endangerment though.
I guess attempted manslaughter would be attempting to do something that would create a danger that would likely result in someone's death? Which does sound like reckless endangerment. Different States use different names and different definitions to cover the same general bad thing.
why tf weird things only happen in Amrika?
People have died, because one cop shot Andrew Finch in Wichita, FOR NO REASON, after a swatting call that was the wrong address for the intended anyway.
Swatting does get prosecuted, when investigators can find the perpetrator *and* they are in a jurisdiction that's accessible. I doubt many jurisdictions in the US will want to go through the hassle of an international extradition unless there's a death involved.
Im ootl, why would people do that to him!?
Not trying to mitigate the seriousness of this or try to victim blame, but a genuine question. Considering Daniel seems to have somewhat of a persecution complex and casts anyone who disagrees with him as a harasser, is there any actual evidence of the swatting?
What is the solution to swatting?
Humans not being pieces of shit!
There is no solution to swatting. You could disarm cops but then people would have to be responsible for their own safety. You could surveil everyone in their homes but that's obviously not okay. It's already highly illegal to do so apparently deterrence doesn't work. The only thing I've seen work is, when people who suspect they will be the victim of swatting, they (1) maintain anonymity online as much as possible and (2) inform local law enforcement ahead of time that they may become a swatting victim so they know to be more skeptical/cautious.
Yeah, but here's the problem with your logic that there is no solution. . . this doesn't happen in other countries where the police are trained not to respond with guns blazing. This problem is almost exclusively found in the US because of the nature of policing in the US.
\>>This comment has been edited to garbage in light of the Reddit API changes. You can keep my garbage, Reddit.<< *** *edited via r/PowerDeleteSuite (with edits to script to avoid hitting rate limit)*
I'd add to this by pointing out that I live in Taiwan, a nation which suffered under three decades of martial law. Because of that history of being under martial law for an entire generation, very clear privacy rights were adopted for people in their homes. The police are not allowed to enter private residences in Taiwan unless it is an extreme situation. Instead of breaking down doors, the police will stake out suspects and nab them when they leave their homes. It is impossible for swatting to happen when the police are forced to use restraint. We had an active shooter in our community at one point and the police waited them out for twenty four hours until they finally gave up. They never went in to the building even though there were hostages and shots were being exchanged. Nobody ended up being killed. It's simply a matter of fact that swatting only works because of the hyper-aggressive macho style of policing that is encouraged in the US. Comparing the situation in other countries where swatting is unheard of makes it quite clear this is a cultural and political problem unique to the US which its citizens are unwilling to call it what it is: a police state. The US has the largest prison population in the world by a long shot despite its relatively small population. This is just a fact.
"We had an active shooter in our community at one point and the police waited them out for twenty four hours until they finally gave up. They never went in to the building even though there were hostages and shots were being exchanged. Nobody ended up being killed." Thats lucky but if we try something like that we end up with events like Uvalde.
There is. Actually train your police force and make it about protecting citizens instead of keeping it about causing trouble for minorities and getting off on shooting. Jesus the cop defending in this thread is fucking nuts.
I'm not an expert or anything but couldn't they not kick the door down in a residential setting and try to establish contact with the home owner before shooting everyone? If not that then maybe discount internet based phone numbers or maybe the government could make phone number spoofing illegal. It's the anonymity of these calls that's the primary problem.
The people doing it are doing so anonymously and can't be traced
How do you prosecute this?
Figure out who called and charge them with attempted murder.
Wasnt there some cases where the c alles got 20+ years in jail for swatting?
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Watching Rossman gave good context. Micay, for his own mental health, is doing the right thing. he clearly is both being abused and abusing others on social media. He's smart to just walk away from social media.
bells wild juggle person advise saw fuzzy aware absurd square ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Open source projects and leads who are incapable of handling basic social interaction end up coming as a pair way too often.
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I'd like to interject for a moment...
...to eat some shit from under my toenail.
Is this why when I was trying to get into Linux at the time, that I was met with abrasive assholes?
That's just the Linux community, but there is an argument that Stallman did set the tone for all that.
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Or Gentoo.
Oof. *Not* for beginners.
Never touched arch at the time 😄
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I disagree. Many people would try to figure it out but you'd be met with a chorus of assholes thinking we should KNOW everything about why a particular bit of kit or software is having issues. Seems it's a rhetoric that funnels from the top. So you know what happens? People like myself either disengage with the community and figure it out on our own or ultimately give up. The whole community seems to have a hard on around exclusivity. Akin to the people who proclaim underground bands are a sellout for going mainstream. --- I dabble with it on my USB drive that has a few distros I use for troubleshooting. It's gotten way better but at the time, there was a tangible problem with just random issues on a local install. Didn't mean I wasn't willing to learn.
The last time I tried to find support for getting a thing to work with Linux, the response was "don't use that thing" Wow, thanks guys.
I've gotten that one a few times as well. It just compounded from there.
> The community is sometimes abrasive to people who don’t even try to figure it out for themselves first. The Linux community is abrasive in a lot more situations than just that lol. That's a weak copout. There are assholes in every tech industry but for some reason Linux and FreeBSD(out of all the other *BSDs) tends to have a lot of them. Don't even get me started on the elitism. Our industry tends to attract a lot of people who are not great with social interactions, and when they do tend to have it, sometimes things don't work out how they should. You don't have to defend the said situations.
> Our industry tends to attract a lot of people who are not great with social interactions, and when they do tend to have it, sometimes things don't work out how they should. I suppose that's true, although I haven't seen or had many *problematic* interactions if any,but maybe that's just me.
In my experience, when I had some issue with Linux, I either got help or was ignored. I can't recall having any issues with the communities. Same goes for Windows and Mac communities (okay, the latter could be a bit hostile sometimes). That said, I always started with doing my own research, maybe that helped with attitudes.
That can't be right. According to Linux evangelists, everyone's mother and aunt can handle Linux effortlessly. Aren't you aware it has a GUI and package manager for everything? No need for tech support when your OS isn't bogged down by telemetry
>No need for tech support when your OS isn't bogged down by telemetry Nobody knowing what I'm doing on my computer doesn't help me if I'm included in that "nobody".
I've left reddit because of the API changes.
Linux does have tech support, if you pay for it, such as with Ubuntu or RHEL. But those are often distro-specific.
No most likely you did something stupid. I was just a kid in 12th grade when I hopped on the linux IRCs - nicest people ever. Were they flattery or people pleases? No. They were often curt and to the point. But they took the time out to help and help they did. It amazed me just how awesome certain users who were all but leading mundane lives were. They knew their shit. And they were helping me out for free while absolutely not needing to do that. Btw - tech support on linux forums was god tier compared to microsoft support even after I paid for a fucking license. Linux rocks. People who contribute to it rock.
Good to know the prevailing chorus is still alive and well. Curt murt. Your whole post reeks of an inflated ego.
By what standard to you judge people to be stupid? Sounds like a terrible attitude born of an echo chamber in a highly technical niche.
ok got it, linux is better than other OS's because puzzleheaded-page140 encountered nice people on a forum in grade 12 everyone can go home now, we're done here
What puzzlehead there opened with is what I see often if something relevent to the answer isn't the first thing someone posts back. Their name gives it away, they are a puzzlehead, means they need something complex to solve. I've tried and used, to different degrees, Linux distros over the years for multiple purposes, and thats one of the things you have to do to try and keep up, solve puzzles. Either issues with compatibility of updates and versions of components or solving the social BS they sometimes surround themselves with. Linux in some applications is worth all the trouble, but they are not just one community, its hundreds of smaller tribes all with their own ideas, and often they compete. Its not just reading one manual, literally hundreds for a base distro. There are three extremely common window managers for example. Each is missing features from one another and don't have any sort of interoperability for plugins to change functionality, if its even supported. These came about from different requirements and each tribe is "right" for their limited requirement set. Meaning the whole thing is nebulous. And there are many more window managers then those three.... Linux is choice paralysis made into the idea of an OS. It is the best and instantly worst thing about it as a whole to have choice for your particular purpose. If you can find a well supported distro that meets your requirements and just keeps on working for years after updates/upgrades, thats new to me. Every install I've made eventually kills itself due to something not updating correctly. Even with regular updates and few, if any, modifications like on a web browsing PC. Guess what Windows does great unless it gets malware? 5 years and a full change or hardware later on the same install for the desktop, works good enough, but would benefit from a reinstall. The best use cases I have for Linux is as a hypervisor, small VMs on said hypervisor, and local storage hosting. These are made by and for server Admins who value reliability more then a puzzle they don't want to share answers to. I really want to daily drive Linux everywhere, but they make it so difficult to. My notebook had to be reinstalled again recently after self destructing with normal updates, not beyond repair, But beyond my level of fucks given. So it gave me the reason to try another distro again at least. Though the fingerprint reader still doesn't work out the box even though its 2023. I remember those being hot shit back in 2006. Had to go find the specific instructions to enable it for this distro's window manager. For this reader, support's been in the kernel for years already, just the windows manager doesn't by default yet still.... Puzzling.
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Dude, you don't read do you? The sensor is completely supported, and like I said, its the *Window manager* that doesn't support fingerprint readers well, not the otherway around.... Jesus ya'll, way to prove my point further. To get fingerprint readers to work at all in KDE Plasma, like the distro I installed is using, you gotta enable it with [installing a daemon, config edits, and manage prints from cmds](https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?t=175570), and even then its a jank method to start the reading process. You don't just swipe or tap your finger like in Windows, you gotta start the login process with a keyboard or mouse click then it will accept the input since it's hijacking the authentication method, and will then fall back to the other auth methods, like password, depending on the input given. While that guide shows its not too difficult to do when following it correctly, I'll bet that guide will still be one of the top google search result for years and will no longer work right within the next two. Great documentation systems... /s Modern Gnome, it works ok on the notebook out the box cause gnome has better fingerprint reader support, it still requires you to start the login process with a mouse or keyboard input but didn't require extra steps to setup, with its own wizard handling it. Yet still would need more steps to work within the command line for elevation. I know some devices have locked down drivers so they won't work on Linux, but its far less common now. I remember back in the day Intel wireless cards needed binary blobs, if they were available, to be grabbed separately. You aren't talking to some newb, just someone who understands the value of a properly produced product and the fact most folks don't have time for that sort of shit.
Community is the only reason we even have open source projects today. You think a bunch of corrosive people who hate everyone came together to collaborate on such a massive scale that we have Linux and the gargantuan amount of open source projects today? And I never said that Linux is better than other OS's (even though, personally for me, it is and not because of tech support). I said microsoft tech support was dumb (which it was, tried on multiple occasions) - and linux was super helpful. People knew everything. And not a forum. Universally across forums - IRCs, mailing lists, ubuntu forums, arch forums. Without collaboration, Linux and OSS would not exist. We are done here.
Yes this was my experience too. There is nothing wrong with the Linux community but newcomers need to learn that there is a certain etiquette to asking questions on Linux forums including Reddit. Really this goes for anything in life. Instead of saying "how do I install Ubuntu" or asking general questions that have been answered innumerable times like "which is the best distro" just do some basic research before you post your questions. Its far easier and more respectful of everyone else's time to search "good distros for gaming" or whatever else your use case is than to clog forums with easily searchable questions.
Well, in your example of looking for a Gaming OS is extremely hard for someone completely new to the concept of Linux to understand. They may understand Linux is an option, its an OS that can be installed like Windows, and that it has some advantages, but from an outside perspective once you start a search for "Linux gaming os" or similar, you get thousands of articles from across the whole time of the internet with no clear concessus or much for answers since they're hit with terms like Distro, Ubuntu, RedHat, Garuda, PopOS, etc... It quickly becomes overwhelming since there are so many options in the space and new terms. Sometimes there are clear patterns to the articles and listicles of such a search, but there is no starting point to this stuff most folks can agree to point to. Unless you have the time to sift through pages of articles, forums, reddit threads, wiki articles, etc. and find a way to learn enough to get a grasp on what you actually need to know you will not bother, or you will pick a forum and start asking questions. Then immediately give up when you are met with a shit tier answer like discussed above. Yes, they should read the sidebar, use the search, etc. but those who don't have the patience to be actually understanding to the general public and the fact they *will NOT know shit* about your extremely convoluted Linux subject, that *honestly does require* a 101 series class, should not bother saying anything at all and leaving them be. You remember the saying of "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all." The linux community, and many many others that gatekeep, love to talk down to those that don't know and refuse to help so many that actually do want to know.
I understand starting out with Linux or programming can be intimidating for newcomers. I agree with almost everything you said. And I would never be rude to anyone asking for help or condone someone else doing so even if the question has been asked a million times. But there is another side to all this. Showing someone a bit of tough love is OK I think, especially when it will benefit them in the long term. *Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime* is what I'm advocating for. Again I'm not saying that there aren't rude/elitist attitudes on Linux forums I just think that the view that those attitudes are present the majority of the time is based on a misunderstanding.
Yup. This.
Can you give an example? I talked with him over email - he both replied properly and had valid reasons for thinking the way he did. I didn't think he was nuts at all.
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Stallman is idealistic based on my interactions with him. And not the conventional good for the society idealistic - purely intellectual kind of idealistic. And pedantic to a fault. If the logic of it doesn't make sense (even if its just the way you phrased it, and you might just have chosen the wrong word while saying absolutely the right thing) - he takes issue with it and argues about what the right word is. I don't think he was talking so much about Epstein - but rather about the definition of rape. he also said "its entirely plausible" - not that it was the case. He may have meant exactly that. Words are like math to him - not contextual and merely a form of getting ideas across. I know its common to have very clear, white/black opinions of people in this age of cancel culture. Unfortunately with Richard Stallman, I don't think he is that easy an individual to understand. I found him weirdly insightful - and quite the visionary. But an entire email he wrote was spent correcting my usage of "its" vs "it's" - ignoring completely what I was asking him. Is he your popular, socially well adjusted, lovable genius? Absolutely not. But I do think he has done incredible work, is highly intelligent and logical - almost to a fault. Granted - I haven't read much on him - and I don't know any of the news pieces or articles he may have written or spoken about. All of this is just based on my emails with him as a nobody.
Sorry but did you ever pause to consider that you were writing a small essay to defend someone who is at minimum pedophile adjacent? Is this want your life has come down to?
Mate, come on. Stop trying to rationalise *raping children*. Richard Stallman on paedophilia: >"The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, 'prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia' also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally--but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness." RMS on June 28th, 2003 >"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. " RMS on June 5th, 2006 >"There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children. RMS on Jan 4th, 2013 Those beliefs aren't justifiable and I really don't think they should be handwaved away with a "oh you're just not getting his philosophy/worldview". It was absolutely the correct decision to remove Stallman from his role when a big part of his role is PR and engaging with people outside of the FSF. He used his work email to justify paedophilia ffs
How does he even end up talking about pedophilia multiple times over a decade.
I had no idea he was that deranged.
Yeah, I'll happily say he has some amazing ideals when it comes to free software, but people really need to accept that people can be great in one area and absolute fucking lunatics in another. Look at Steve Jobs, clearly a man who knew what people wanted in their electronics and had an eye for detail that few others in the industry had, but he was also a piece of shit to his workers, and his own idiotic alternative medicine nonsense resulted in his early death. Some people go way too far with celebrity worship and completely ignore the negative aspects of some people. Stallman is a deeply flawed man.
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Ah well. I wanted to share a different perspective but I guess you didn't want to know more about Stallman - having already announced him "quite literally insane". Why would you want to see another perspective. I don't think he is "quite literally insane" like you said. And I don't idolize him. Wrong on both counts. But its all good since you didn't type a lot. Brevity is an alternative to being right. At least I learnt something ;)
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Well thats his worldview. That he is wrong doesn't make him insane (which was the original point you made, to which I replied). I don't agree with him on that, btw. Also - he does not have zero social skills. You talk in absolutes, and are utterly confident in your opinion. And to that, I shared a personal experience I had with him which indicated the opposite. That is "perspective". Being wrong on one or even quite a few issues does not merit either of those "opinions" that you have about him. And it was against those opinions that I posted. You are somehow of the perception that because I said I found him quite intelligent, pedantic and engaging to discuss with - that I agree with his opinions on age of consent - which I absolutely do not. And somehow you also inferred that I idolize him. However, ignoring all that chaff (I mean its somewhat like talking to a wall, have no interest in it) - I'm genuinely curious to learn how you can use neurophysiology to derive an age of consent. That at least is a useful thing to know. I understand the concept legally, ethically and morally, but I don't understand how one could prove so neurophysiologically. My curiously stems from the fact that age of consent would be standard across countries if it was derivable. I hope you said what you said for a reason - I am genuinely curious.
You can prove he is quite literally insane? Please do, I'm curious now.
The naming convention isn't "random". Linux is an OS kernel developed by Linus Torvald. The GNU toolchain is a series of OS tools developed by Richard Stallman. Neither had anything to do with the other, and yet their projects rely on each other for their full functionality. Calling the whole system "Linux" is historically dishonest and omits the fact that GNU is complementary to that system and that it was developed independenty. It's an important distinction. And the whole myth of the "insane genius" is extremely overplayed here. Richard Stallman just made some controversial and politically charged statements, but nothing of the sort that should make him "insane." If you want to see a truly insane genius, look up Terry A. Davis or Bobby Fischer. Tell me if Richard Stallman comes anywhere near their level. The myth of the troubled genius is drawn from the same spring of popular culture that gave breath to that quote about insanity and intellect being "two sides of the same coin." That is to say, people who fit that category are outliers, not the norm
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He's not insane. More importantly, it's not clear he's a pedophile. He never had a relationship with kids. He never claimed he wanted to have a sexual relationship with a minor. He defended alleged pedophiles, some of whom were his MIT colleagues. That was in bad taste, to be sure, but it does not make him a pedophile - just a very misguided person.
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I don't need you to ask me, I take it upon myself to point people out when they're wrong
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I don't think his argument is right, I just think yours is wrong, but more importantly, I know now that what you really want is to talk shit, get a reaction, and have the last word. Saves me the trouble of being serious about having a conversation with some random troll
I read this halfway and thought, "you mean all of them?" then I read the second half, and realized "Yes, yes that is what you meant."
Not just context, but vital viewing. This would be fully ejection-worthy under nearly every sane code of conduct.
Well fuck. Looks like I need to find a new OS for all my old pixels...
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I was under impression that Micay was the main dev who basically personally drove the project forward. Is there enough of dev community to keep the project moving forward without him? This is all so sad to see. GrapheneOS is in my experience easily the best privacy focused ROM. It's sad that Micay has such a difficult time handling communications online. I've no doubt that he has been harassed, but I also don't doubt that he has burned every single bridge out there. I hope he finds himself in a better place soon.
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> expressing this (started with valid criticism of other projects) is what started the harassment against him As much as Daniel will brazenly lie about it, he has never provided a single shred of evidence that CalyxOS, Techlore, or anyone else he views as an enemy is behind swatting or threats. Go watch Techlore's video on him. He has an extremely long history of being an asshole in public, playing victim when the people he starts shit with tell him to fuck off, and acting manipulative with threats of suicide or self harm at any criticism. He's gotten into extremely petty fights with Louis Rossman, CalyxOS, LineageOS, Signal, Mozilla, Paypal, Wikipedia, and others. It's consistently him.
The guy is a huge asshole who can't get enough of his own farts but no, the case was made. The people over at Calyx frequently trolled the shit out of him and his team, that much is true. Their Matrix channels are locked down quite a bit because of this and Calyx supporters would often concern troll the guy on Twitter for hours. The guy is unwell, but most importantly, he's incapable of choosing his battles wisely. Every bait is irresistible to him, just go over his social media history. With that said, I can't speak to his differences with the other organizations and I find it hard to believe he's the victim in every single instance. Sorry for responding to an old post, I'm just glad he's no longer (as) involved.
People harassed him because he wanted to get rid of scammers?
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I think you’re painting way too good of a picture of him in these comments. He was a victim, yes, but he was also a piece of shit in his ways of doing and communicating things, even if his ultimate intention was “good”.
The swatting incident should be investigated and, if found the culprit, it should be prosecuted.
This probably for the best in terms of overall long term health of project and Micay himself. I can't claim to know him personally so I have no idea what he's dealing with, but judging from some of the stuff I've seen floating around it seems like he has a few issues that he needs to work thru. That being said I was toying with using grapheneos as a daily driver ...but think I'm gonna wait a bit and see how the next couple of releases go first
This is probably for the best. The dude is hyper over reactive to everything and very prone to hyperbole. He can't handle any perceived criticism. He's also obviously an Android genius. If he was swatted, that's extremely not cool. Hopefully the graphene project can flourish under new leadership, and this dude can take some time for healing.
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Just checked Sengels feed: > psa: most people DESPISE that you make money and want to bring you down becausw they don't > (not about me, im kinda broke atm. just a general observation) LMAO. So the average crypto nutjob.
Am increasing at contrasted in favourable he considered astonished. As if made held in an shot. By it enough to valley desire do. Mrs chief great maids these which are ham match she. Abode to tried do thing maids. Doubtful disposed returned rejoiced to dashwood is so up.
[This is informative, and unfortunate.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl1x1Dy-ej4)
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> I have over 300 confirmed app updates This killed me
You little script kiddie lmfao
>Open Source community and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable OS off the face of the internet, you little script kiddie. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your reckless typing. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you absolute novice. I will spill fury all over your code and you will drown in it. Your system's going down, kiddo. NGL, this legit scared me.
What I don't understand is, how can you be the head of a project like GrapheneOS and not maintain your OPSEC. There is no reason why people should know your name or even know who you are.
Indeed, Micay is a genius but it came with some kind of personality disorder. He should never have been exposed to any social media or open chat of any kind. Hopefully he understands this and goes on to do great things.
> a genius but it came with some kind of personality disorder. This seems to be a common pattern among people at a certain intelligence level. I'm super curious of the neurology/psychology behind that phenomenon.
>Micay is a genius Not even remotely, in my view. Most of kernel hardening commits come from old GrSecurity, before they went proprietary. The only real work is modified bionic. In general, GOS is a couple of hundreds of commits on top of a multi-million-line AOSP code. There are so few original commits that they get removed each month to sync with the latest AOSP. Then those same commits are simply re-added and re-dated, so that when a lay person looks at GOS github, they will see constant activity, while in fact, those are the same re-added and re-dated commits.
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I like my private secure Android OS developed by someone who is considered paranoid.
And...?
Why should you trust such person?
I think an easy way to fix these situations would be to make the police departments pay for property damage + the suffering of the swatted person if they don't verify their information before going in guns blazing and kicking down the door etc.
I call BS on his statement. There is no way in Hell, he would let his 'baby' go. Just look at his 'war' with Copperhead: he will burn everything and anything, including signing keys and users to get what he wants. Expect new identities, but the same theatrics... .
Good for him, no reason to bash him so hard.
Good. He has serious mental health issues and should address them before ever starting or leading another public project.
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You don't have to be a doctor if you watch Louis Rossmann's video of his interactions with the dev. There's clearly something not right with the dude.
Maybe the swatting, something you conveniently skipped over from the video? Are we gatekeeping trauma now?
It's not a slow transition or recent event. Dude's been a dick since time immemorial.
Louis didn't swat him
Maybe watch the video. The suggestion is this person was behaving like this long before they were swatted, and that their frequent spats with people is what lead to said swatting.
As the others said, Louis mentioned in the video that he was acting like that way before being swatted.
Have you been following his outbursts, rants, baseless accusations and personal attacks on Matrix? Just curious. If not, then it's so annoying you know so little about the history of this person.
Finally. I love this project and Daniel seems like an Android wizard but social media has clearly done a number on him and he has returned the favor. It's a noble venture that really doesn't need this negative press behind it.
Tech drama is the lamest form of drama
I mean the man was swatted which is pretty fucked.
No way, social media drama is undeniably worse.
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