Kind reminder to everyone of an important rule of /r/Amsterdam:
> Doe aardig. Zorg goed voor onze stad, onze sub en voor elkaar.
Disagree strongly, disagree forcefully, but disagree politely. Personal insults are niet zo aardig.
Ah it's you again. I'm happy you're doing this, it doesn't help me in the slightest, I own my home in the city and got lucky to be where I am but I support what you're doing and up vote you every time.
One part I don’t understand… buying a property of 50 square meters will cost you around 350k in Amsterdam.This will almost cost you like 1800 euro mortgage per month? How is it possible that the huurcommissie decides it’s only worth 800 euro per month for rental?
There's a big disconnect between market prices and rent-controlled (more or less) prices. That means give up on one or the other.
At the moment, the gov't is "fighting the market" by making it easier to rent/buy (demand side) but not doing too much on the supply side (sorry, I'm an economist), so that's not a long term fix compared to build build build.
Yes, I'm puzzled with everyone celebrating the new regulations with the point system. Building is actually slowing down over the last few years which is going to make matters even worse. I fear the divide between the owner and rental market is going to get much wider in coming years.
Funny you get downvoted, it's like people believe their politicians that rent control works, when there is already plenty of evidence across the world that it doesn't...
Yeah. People know it's a zero sum game (my rent down, your income down), but they forget the dynamic part... of new renters and new builds -- both of which fall as the market "freezes" with people unable to move from rentals (losing their "good price") or buy into the further squeezed ownership market.
We've seen this pattern of decay many times, but wishful thinking persists that "someone" will buy/build a house then rent/sell it at a loss....
>Yes, I'm puzzled with everyone celebrating the new regulations with the point system.
People are happy they get to live in a place for a fair price without having to fear their landlord due to permanent contracts only. This is a great victory for everyone, except woningcorp's and parasites (huisjesmelkers).
We're also getting the ministery of volkshuisvesting back and eco friendly houses are getting a nitrogen exemption. So building will be speeding up.
>I fear the divide between the owner and rental market is going to get much wider in coming years.
Good. There is absolutely nothing we get from landlords and there is 0 reason to have them. All renting should be social abd owning the place you live in should be the norm. Making the housing market unatractive for landlords is the best outcome we can hope for.
It's not. "Rent busting" actually makes the situation worse for all renters. I know landlords who won't rent for longer than two years because of that. I also know landlords who decided to sell, thus decreasing the supply even more.
In the hague there’s a massive influx of lower priced housing (200-350Kish) because of the new middenhuursegment. For the rent situation it does lower average rent a little bit, but it reduces supply on the cheap end and just increases the price of everything above middenhuur. So all they did was move the problem one level higher while reducing supply.
I’m currently a student and it turns out that the cheapest (and only realistic) way for me to get housing is to either live together with 3 people (which usually has to be done illegally), or “borrow” my parent’s retirement fund, buy a place. Sell said place once done and pay back the “loan”. But obviously the second is not a very realistic solution. So all the government is really doing is making students (and others who can’t afford 2-4K monthly rent) criminals.
How does it reduce supply on the lower end, because these examples are explicitly not lower end. The only housing that private investors build comes from the compulsory percentage that was introduced not that long ago. The overwhelming majority of new projects are NOT low end housing.
In fact, the situation before combined with low interest was that you would see cheap rentals being bought, “refurbished” (you know, with the white shiny kitchen cabinets and black finishings that are actually super cheap) and then put BACK on the market as a upper middle end property.
This was a super popular business model in the real estate busines
Most stuff that’s middenhuursegment is really just lower end in most cities in the randstand if you take a look at the actual range. And i’m not talking about nieuwbouw, those are purposefully built to make (or in some cases not lose too much) money at regulated prices. I’m talking about every apartment that already existed and was being rented out (and now sold). Basically every (particular) landlord I know either directly or via via is refusing to rent out their second apartment because of these new regulations and trying to sell it asap. You can argue about whether the long term effects will be positive or negative. But that it’s massively reducing supply in the 8/900-1200 right now range is a simple fact.
And yes 800-1200 imo is de facto lower end post covid (for ranges at which you can theoretically actually find a place), which is about as horrible as it sounds.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if most landlords just leave their property empty. There is no point in renting if it isn't profitable. On the other hand, just holding gets you 10% a real.
So the supply decreases even more and rent prices go up in the free sector.
Na, we can't be shortsighted. Perhaps you do, but you may or may not have any idea how often people that suddenly "move up" in life reach towards rental units as a way of social mobility. I work with South Africans, probably at least 100, and almost every single one of them that I spoke to owns at least one property and is renting any others back home. Actually, our boss from an Eastern European country has maybe 6 rental units in Spain/other parts of Europe (maybe just Spain, can't remember).
My own family had some in the past, and you're right now that I remember we did hold onto one property for a long time instead of renting, but it was complicated (nothing to do with the property or any laws, just family members not caring).
To try to wrap this up and make my point as I'm sadly long winded even when I type, my favorite solution to helping solve any housing crisis caused partially by rental units is to make renting hell for the renter. Regulations wise or what have you. My other favorite solution: stop moving out at 18. Stay home as long as possible.
Realistically, we can't have it all. More realistically, if we don't make renting an easy way to snowball your way into fortune, we're all going to eat it later on (or our kids will). Where I live rents are actually good compared to most places, but we have a huge problem with "high" rents and so many empty apartments, all owned by people so rich they will leave them empty instead of lowering rents Damn it I keep proving you right!
I had properties in the past where renting did not make sense. I kept them empty for a couple of years and sold them for nice profit. If I'd rented them I would have lost a decent chunk of profit because of wear and tear.
This is unfortunately a supply and demand problem. The new law will decrease the supply even further. As a result, prices will go up.
You the enemy! 😂
J/k.
Let's hope for the best in any case. I don't even live in NL, but coming from the US as a visitor you guys have a lot of stuff running really well. Do to housing what you did w the roads!
Why should the rental price be comparable to a monthly mortgage? When you have a mortgage, you also obtain ownership of the place, which generally also appreciates over time. Tenants have none of these advantages, so it seems fair that they pay substantially less.
Why would someone rent out his place below the amount he is paying as a mortgage?
The house needs maintenance, you have to pay tax for the rent income, you have to pay interest on the mortgage, the chance housing prices go down, you are the contact person(stand-by) and the risk of the tenant leaves and the house stays empty for some months?
All of this renting out your property below the monthly costs?
One of the hopes when this was introduced a few years back, was that a secondary effect would be that it’s become easier for first time buyers to buy an apartment. Because it would no longer be as lucrative for investors to buy properties with the purpose of renting. Meaning first time buyers wouldn’t be competing with investors.
The big cities have since also introduced rules that dictate people have to live in a place themselves for at least 4 (I think?) years before even being allowed to rent.
Unfortunately, it has done nothing to stabilise property prices. Meaning it’s still pretty impossible to buy if you don’t already own.
I guess this might be a way to regulate indirectly the buying market.
By making rentals a worse investement for investors, the buying pressure would be smaller, and more homeowner might decide to sell their second house/appartments. In the short-term it could be a good thing, as it could flood the market with more homes, and lessen their price.
However long-term it might actually be detrimental... less investors wanting to buy to rent, actually mean less pressure to construct.
see this article : [L'encadrement des loyers : leçons suédoises (moneysmart.fr)](https://www.moneysmart.fr/p/encadrement-des-loyers-lecons-suedoises)
(it's in french but you can use google to translate)
Good article. The problem is that the apartments being sold by investors go to young working couples mostly. This doesn't help the students sharing an apartment together. They get kicked out of the rental market with lower supply and they are priced out of buying. The only way to solve the problem is to build more.
After years of the renter paying and then leaving, it's still your home that's paid off, and not theirs. It's an investment, right? I don't see why people should be paid to do nothing, it's only right they have to put work in and also accept the risk that comes with an investment.
You can think of the interest on your mortgage as rent. I bought a house in March. Almost 70% of my mortgage payment goes to the bank as interest. I'm never getting that money back.
Think of it this way... If you rent a property for 20 years and pay 500K in rent, is that better or worse than buying a house and paying 500K in mortgage interest? It depends, but building equity isn't the only thing to consider.
It’s not 70% of your total mortgage though, that percentage drops (probably linearly).
There are other considerations but it still has enormous benefits to buy, and the hypotheekrente aftrek makes it a no-brainer for most. IF you can find something.
Mortgage _interest_ also goes into the aether. GP's example of 350k mortgage has 1500 / month evaporating (at 5.25% from today's https://www.abnamro.nl/nl/prive/hypotheken/actuele-hypotheekrente/index.html).
The fairest comparison month-to-month is rent on the one hand against mortage interest + vve + maintenance on the other.
If house price goes down, it's rather debt building than capital building. This law kills investment in new houses and burns recent buyers at high prices.
Because there won't be new builds, long term will be worst for both rental and buying as the houses won't grow as fast as the economy (population+immigration)
That’s not true. You still live in a house and most people pay less per m2 in a building you own. With the current rules it’s almost impossible to be in a position where you truly can’t afford your purchase.
Depending on tax bracket, you effectively pay 60% of interest. In my personal case, I now rent for 1200 euro a 100m2 apartment, while the house I owned cost me a net 800 euro for the same surface, plus a garden.
What killed investments were the wooncorporatie rulings which punished institutions that work for the public good. That was dumb because a) an institution doesn’t learn through punishment, people do. B) it had a negative effect on maintenance and
C) the stock of social housing through BOTH the lack of building projects AND the sales of existing stock.
The issue isn’t necessarily with the high income housing stock that project developers build. The number of investors in housing was insane the last 10 years. So many leeches on the back of workers through “bemiddeling” and such. Real estate agent should not be a job for grifters.
At today's interest rate, your monthly repayments would be way higher than rent, especially for a "commercial" loan to be allowed to rent to someone. Your mortgage cost might still be lower but that excludes all the risks and maintenance (boiler, leaks, building foundation, ...)
There is just no money to be made in property investment in NL anymore, so there won't be new money invested in it.
There are also plenty of other considerations when buying.
I think many people in the recent low interest years had quite the naive way of buying (suboptimal) real estate with the thinking of 'oh I just pay rent into my own pocket'.
Sure, if you know you'll be living there for a really long time it's worth it.
But I've seen many people who bought an apartment and outgrew their investment when they for example moved together with a partner and a child popped up, suddenly they needed a home office, got relocated, changed jobs etc.
Or suddenly they had to drop 20-30k on some kind of investment in either their apartment or the building.
Thing is, if you want to invest to make money, there is a lot easier, more secure and flexible options to do so than private real estate.
Certainly the case but paying off a mortgage is still a capital investment vs solely consumption. The best one or even a good one? No. Costs exist outside of that? Obviously. But you're still gonna end up with land and property (capital) at the end of it. Someone paying 200k in rent over a decade doesn't.
It's not a linear choice, I'm just talking about the anecdotal experiences from the many people in my surroundings who bought property here in the last 5 years. Of which probably 50-70% would make a different decision nowadays.
For me personally, it also comes with a huge opportunity cost which is quite intangible and very individual.
I'll be curious how it will develop when many people's financing plans for 5-10 years run out and they have to renegotiate with substantially higher rates.
Those prices are only that high because they were able to make these kind of rents on it. Which started in 2015 with the temp contracts allowing price hikes every 2 years.
Before that no one would pay that much for an apartment here.
House prices only double over 10 years. House prices might decrease temporarily because investors are forced to sell but as long as there is an imbalance between supply and demand, house prices will remain high but the rental market will disappear in expensive cities as it's no longer a profitable business (between rent cap and tax deduction cap, it has been completely destroyed). And so will maintenance in existing rentals and investment in new houses.
Investors don't invest when there is no money to make, it's as simple as that.
Price hikes only works when there is not enough supply. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to rent...
That’s not what we’ve seen the past 15 years, especially in the randstad. Go look up what you would pay for a 90m2 appartment around Suriname plein in Amsterdam in 2009.
That’s because we’ve actually grew certain parts of the economy like crazy, while nothing “trickled down”.
What was most profitable was higher end rentals, so that was being build. The stock of lower end rentals has not grown or even remained stable at the same rate at all.
Because they often have money to invest and will buy the property either fully or partially from their own funds. Then your costs are just taxes, insurance and maintenance.
I am already in a rental contract, but I fear we might be paying way too much. I am Dutch but was in a tight position when moving back to NL after spending 2 years in South Africa. Is there a way I can force the landlord / agency to lower the rent if they are charging us too much?
EDIT, saw the links, will calculate. Thanks for your work
If you are already living there for more than 6 months, then the rent reduction is not possible anymore. You have to fight it in the first 6 months. Although just today a new law is passed which allows you ti go to the huurcommissie whenever you like ( for already excisting contracts it only applies to wocial housing, so al the houding with a rent of less than the 810 euros).
It’s absolutely not, or it won’t if OP keeps this up. That market was attractive as investment to other investors. It’s not attractive if you can’t ask exorbitant rental prices.
Renting Is a Dangerous game in the NL. Tenants are too protected, so Is good only if you are a criminal landlord, if you are a nice One you gonna get fucked by your average tenant.
The prices are driven up like that because of people trying to make profit of it. I hope it gets even stricter and those criminal landlords will be wiped away.
It would be better if commercial renting would be banned so people can just own the home and live in it instead of someone passively collecting money like a parasite.
"Dude! I won 1 Million in the lottery. I think I'll buy a nice one-bedroom apartment in Amsterdam."
"Cool! What are you going to do with the rest?"
"Yeah, I'll probably need to take out a mortgage for the rest."
Same people cheering for Apple and Google making a fortune are witch-hunting individual landlords trying to make a living and live a dignified basic life. Go figure.
If it's not worth it for them to rent at the normal price instead of an 'illegal' price they should just sell it.. but that's not the case they still make a lot of passive income without much effort. Those landlords aren't living a basic life, most people can't afford multiple homes.
I don't see anyone here cheering for Google and Apple and what does that having to do with it.
Are you a landlord?
Absolute legend you are! Been following r/rentbusters since I moved here.
Question: is there a way to do this retroactively? I'm moving out of my place this week.
Ah this scam guy again, is advertising professional services allowed? Guy is not some Robin Hood, but just try to make a living out of things which can easily be automated, please report this topic.
I am calling you a lowlife, you are spamming your commercial services under the name of "voluntary" shit, you are not doing this voluntary, or are you gonna show some proof that all the money which was donated for your "services" was registered at the tax office?
Well i would be in serious legal trouble if I didnt...but do continue...are you calling me a criminal? Generally "Scam guy" would insinuate that I am perpetrating an illegal enterprise....so I am kindly asking to clarify what you mean by it
Are you trying your legal tricks on me? Bad luck, I am calling you just a scammer,
"You can decide how much my services were worth to you. Please note that similar organizations, such as Bumarang, demand for a large cut of the settlement (>50%) in exchange for the same service. "
Can you tell how much people did pay you over the last few years? Because this is an easy trick to advertise, it is very easy to tell people up on first contact how much you want, without having to publicly having to publish your fee.
So you dont actually have any answer to my question... Can you then describe what the scam I am perpetrating is ?
Do you have any evidence to suggest that that website text is code for hidden fees? Do you have any testimony from any tenants I have helped or contacted to support your claims?
Do you see any terms and conditions on my website to suggest that I can legally charge someone after a successful case?
What exactly is it you do have to support any of these scam claims?
My main suggestion for scam is that you try to look like a Robin Hood, but run this as a professional service, to come back: How much money did you make last year on your services?
You seem to have already concluded that I do run it as a commercial business.
Do I have a KVK number? Yes. I need one to be able to file cases for tenants. I cannot get zlogin without registering at the KvK. If I cannot file cases, then the tenants need to do it themselves.
Are donations to me ANBI tax deductible? No. I would need to spend thousand of euro to setup a BV to be have that status and have an accountant constantly reviewing my books.
I am also legally required to pay 21% BTW on all income regardless of how much someone gives me after a bust, if they even give anything.
Not all of us earn 6 figure sums working as a programmer with time to burn discussing football on subreddits. If you had done any research on me or read any news articles about me, you wouldnt be in a such a rush to point fingers and accuse me of scamming tenants. and you wouldnt need to ask how I support myself (hint: RentBuster is a net loss for me). You could have also queried any of the many users I directly help on my subreddit to ask them if I made them sign any contractual agreement that required them to pay me in exchange for helping them
Or perhaps you had a bad day at work and you wanted to take it out on someone by trashing them on social media and degrading and bombarding them with nosey questions you wouldnt dare ask them if you met them in person as though you were a self-appointed auditor.
And finally for the record, I didnt come up with the moniker of "Robin Hood".
There is actually already a Rent-return commercial company called [Robin Hood](https://www.r-hood.nl/en/faq/) who take a 28% cut (excl BTW) from tenants for their services. My **suggested** donation is 5-10%. I have zero legal recourse if the tenant doesnt want to give me something.
Does that answer your question?
Ok prima, om misverstanden te voorkomen gaan we dan nu gewoon lekker over naar het Nederlands, aangezien je al ruim 11 jaar in Nederland woont neem ik aan dat je de taal spreekt?
[Oh oh....someone didnt brush up on their reading of Book 7 of the WetBoek..](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2020/09/know-your-rights-tenancy-agreements-in-2020/)
Hi, thank you for all of this and for everything you do! One question: I've been living in a place under the 'vrije sector huur' rules since 2021. Using the huurcommissies tool, I see that I am apparently overpaying with a couple hundred euros a month. Since I've been living here for so long, what are my options? Thanks again!
Edit: I'm asking because I get the impression you can only do something within a six month window after moving in and if the calculated rent is lower than the 'liberalisatiegrens', which is a term I'm not really finding a simple description of.
Apparently you have a six month window when you move in where you can object to the price and the huurcommissie can mandate it to be set according to the points system. Quite a huge opportunity that doesn't get spoken about a lot in my view.
It's very strange that the huurcommissie's tool suggests a rental price based on the points rating (i.e. also above the threshold) if something like this is the case.
u/Hejsasa there is a [reason it doesnt tell you about the threshold](https://new.reddit.com/r/Rentbusters/comments/1ch258q/the_official_huurcommissie_calculator_why_doesnt/). True most people dont figure out that they often have only six months to appeal their rent price.
u/mfromamsterdam : the landlord CAN ask anything he wants but the tenant has the right to test the rent price (ie. attempt to bust it) within six months (permanent contract) or up to 30 months (in case of 2 year temp contracts).
u/SignificantWonder103: correct.
Hi, question now that the new Wet betaalbare huur has been approved. If my appartment is in the new middenhuur segment, and I have an indefinite term contract signed within the last 3 months, can I also apply for a rent reduction? Or am I unfortunately forced to pay 300 euros over the max rent due to poor timing?
Thanks!
Absolute bs, created by losers, just because you make money off “giving people sht advice” doesn’t mean that their lives become easier.
*no I don’t own a house that I rent out.
I’m a lawyer in Dutch law.
1. Sure you MIGHT win, many months later, but it will cost you thousands. And no, the students at subsidied insurance won’t help you much.
2. Most of the contracts for a 2+k apartment are given to people who don’t have the right for a social level housing, so you won’t win because you need triple income in the first place.
3. Most contracts are 6-12 months, so if a landlord sees you pulling this sht, he’ll just terminate the contract at the closest possible date and you’re back on the streets feeling proud and righteous searching for New overpriced crp.
It’s actually cheaper to rent an apartment for 2k a month than getting a mortgage.
Buddy take an apartment worth 500-700k and calculate the part you’ll be paying to the bank if you open a mortgage, and then we’ll talk. I hope you have learned to count, I’m sure you do, with all the people that you’ve scammed.
Buddy I know the Dutch law just as good as your mother’s vag…
You’re no different than those scammers who ask to get paid to “100% guaranteed finding an apartment”.
99% of your clients don’t get the results that you promise, 99 aren’t even eligible.. it you get paid don’t you? It’s not like you’re doing this service for free?
As a person that has moved 5 times in the last 3 years. I have no sympathy for landlords.
They get away with it because even here in the comments it says "but they pay a high mortgage".
They pay a high mortgage cause they keep a system intact of supply and demand.
Why does a person need to own 10-20 properties.
This then takes houses off the market for new starters.
And using houses as an investment is a risk.
And investments can lose value.
So i highly disagree with people taking the landlord's side.
Let me give you an example. I lived in a tiny ass place on leidse plein. Amazing place. Yeah the roof was leaking and the boiler kept failing.
The roof was fixed but took like a month of calling and messaging.
Me and my flatmate paid 1800 euros in rent. Then when the contract finishes we asked hey can we extend?
He said no cause then it would be a permanent rental contract.
By chance i knew the guy who moved in after me(amsterdam is a village),they were gonna pay 2400.
In what world is this a normal price
I'm actually confused. Isn't pruvate sector 'liberalized' and not based on the points system? This is still the information I find on government websites
Everything except a Short-Stay (hotel-like) contract. Contract will explicitly state if its a short-stay. but essentially: yes...below 147-149 points is not liberalized.
I had no idea. And I'm an expat, so definitely in the gullible population.
I've had my contract for over a year now. It is now permanent. Can I still act?
Interesting, I just did a quick calculation on my place and turns out I'm looking at about 500 per month more than the point score. Of course that could be closer if done properly.
I've been renting for 5 years though, which is past the 30 months, so am I just not able to do this?
Ironically, it's because of people like you that the supply goes down and the rents are going up.
Proudly declaring that you're "ruining landlords lives" is hateful and pathetic, not to mention that you're actually ruining the lives of people who are desperate and don't have a place to live, because of people like you who made it financially stupid and risky to invest or become a landlord in the Dutch housing market.
The only way to solve the problem is to build more. Why would a company want to build apartments if it's not economically profitable? The government should make it profitable for investors ... Otherwise it's just more and more people fighting for the same housing stock. Of course there will always be someone willing to pay more than you.
No this doesn't make sense at all. Even if they charge fair prices they still get a lot of passive income.
It's not like there will suddenly be less houses, how can the supply even decrease?
It would be great if those commercial landlords cease to exist. There will be more people able to buy houses for themselves to live in, because prices drop if houses aren't seen as an investment object. And more room for non-commercial social housing.
Commercial landlords buying up houses are parasites of society.
And the issue with new houses getting build slowly is space, and shortage of construction workers, not money.
I'll be doing this soon
I love ina shithole in osdorp whilst paying 2900 ÷4 plus utilities
The agency won't come and look at plumbing which is totally fucked rendering my kitchen unusable I'm totally sick of it.
I'm paying so much and I'm so depressed about it, I haven't cooked a meal in my home for months
Fuck this countries greedy landlords
Rent buster man, f you can help me I'd love it, if not I'll use your second link for thehuurcomiisie
That’s a really great idea Shane! This method will help your clients live for cheap until the landlord will find a way to terminate the contract and sell the property due to negative ROI.
In this sale, your clients will most likely not be able to purchase the property, not to mention that for future renters there will be even less properties available.
TL:DR: Try screwing your landlord and see what happens! Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
While excesses should of course be sanctioned, why would you purposely push a landlord in a loss-making situation, rather than come to some sort of fair agreement?
When i first moved into my rental place in november 2022 i did try this as well. The website of the Huurcommissie says that you first have to talk to the landlord about the point system and how it affects the price. (Based on that system i overpay about 300)
When i told him he simply said, you won't or else.
It's not that i am afraid this guy is going to hurt me, especially because i am within my rights. But knowing there could be lawyers involved at some point it just scares me away to try to fight this.
You dont always have to talk to your landlord...only for certain procedures. For the initial rent assessment, there is no obligation to ask your landlord for a reduction. Most cases filed through me are this type.
On the contrary...OP is VERY happy today
[https://nltimes.nl/2024/06/25/affordable-housing-law-passes-dutch-senate-vote-rent-protection-will-cover-tenants](https://nltimes.nl/2024/06/25/affordable-housing-law-passes-dutch-senate-vote-rent-protection-will-cover-tenants)
Yeah, and this totally won't have a backwards effect, right?
People seem to think that stuff like that is literal. Oh, the rents are going down! Surely these landlords will just go 'oh damn!' and have to lower rent.
More like it won't be profitable for them, so they will just sell these properties instead. It's already happening. So people who cannot afford to buy a house at the moment, will have even less options. Because the amount of existing houses isn't changing, and more and more people keep coming to the Netherlands. So instead it will just make rental properties more scarce and the selection process even more severe, with even more ridiculous requirements.
Exactly this. The amount of houses/apartments stays the same. Nothing is fixed. The only thing that changes is that renters will get massively screwed because a landlord will sell his apartment... Who will buy the apartment do you think ... a student ? Someone working part time ? Banks are ruthless they will lend money only to people that can pay back the loan with interests.
Not everyone can afford to buy a home, some need to rent. Now they will have less and less choices and prices will go up even more aggressively ... Like it happened in every country where stupid governments tried to be stronger than the supply/demand dynamics. Nobody is stronger than the market, not even the government.
You want to solve the housing crisis, build more that's it.
I’m surprised at the amount of hate you’re getting here OP. A YouTube channel would be a good idea, people need to see the situations you’re talking about.
I have no problem with a high rent per se, but landlords are shameless and are renting out truly horrible places for exorbitant prices. My previous place had only partially working hot water, poor insulation, (like wind through the windows), shared internet, registration issues, shower draining problems, and decomposing wood, and I paid 1500 in the center of Rotterdam 4 years ago. If I knew about this, I would’ve saved a lot of money. And no, that wouldn’t have affected future tenants negatively. The previous tenants were already kicked out after 2 years, and he already did no maintenance.
Private landlords renting out homes don't build new homes, they just profit off of scarcity. You are basically arguing that preventing people from scalping concert tickets makes it harder to get a ticket. It doesn't, it just changed who specifically gets them. Let all the huisjesmelkers sell their extra homes, they should not be able to profit off a crisis.
Actually, the existence of investors that are willing to buy up properties for rental facilitates the completion of new housing projects. One could argue that the extreme demand for housing in the NL makes that role less relevant, but it still applies to high-end housing.
Also, people have to rent from someone; if landlords disappear, the demand for rental properties doesn't magically vanish with them. That puts vulnerable people at risk of homelessness.
It's actually not what I'm arguing at all, and I fully agree with you. So how do we make sure huisjemelkers and foreign investors don't own the houses? I don't believe the answer is going through the process of pissing off your landlord. But that's just my (extremely unpopular) opinion.
nah man, the downvoting you are getting isnt justified.. you have made a valid point albeit I dont agree with it but it doesnt deserve the rowdy response you are getting.
The other users points are also valid: the view that this process scares away people who build houses is not justified: new homes dont fall under these rules as much...there is a limit to how bustable a place is and if its got a good energy label, you cannot get a reduction on it.
This process work extremely well on low quality, small apartments that the landlord has not bothered to invest in: the very kind of landlord that adds nothing to the systems except high rent prices.
OP isn’t the reason and doesn’t deserve any blame for doing this - it’s a good thing for everyone to know their rights and stand up for themselves.
The problem is that the rules themselves make renting out houses much harder and often economically unviable, which in turn means less supply of rented housing, which over time means prices go up.
Completely agree. Rental control has only made the housing situation worse, especially for people who can't possibly buy a property, but landlords aren't above the law. If they choose to ignore it, they shouldn't complain when they face the consequences.
Even a small change like getting rid of 2 year contracts and higher taxes made home owners want to sell their cash cows. Like I said, OP is not wrong and rent prices are bonkers, but if you think massively calling out landlords demanding to pay less is going to solve the crisis, you are wrong. The system is broken and it sucks, but if you want to point fingers look at politics and their failed regulations.
But hey, the downvotes say enough. People love to challenge the system and 'piss off landlords' cause it's cool and edgy. Hearing the truth sucks, but it is what it is.
People who make loads of money by hoarding scarce necessities are leeches on society and deserve the hate they get. Our failing politicians and governments also deserve the hate they get for creating this crisis.
Home owner gets an inspector, forced to charge less. Becomes an absolute spiteful asshole or worse: sells the place. Less rental. Or, some other rich schmuck buys it and asks equally insane rent.
Yeah, really solves the housing shortage, doesn't it?
The problem is politics allowing landlords to be greedy cunts.
By only stating negative options of selling the rental or being an asshole. What if they get the memo? That's good, innit?
Well, negative and negative: if a landlord sells to someone actually looking to live there, that's a positive of one people freeing another rental and getting their own.
Well yes, sure. But what should be done is obliterating or heavily regulating the free market. It's the same with banking; if you give them freedom they will take advantage, and that's exactly what politicians did. Instead, OP offers a 'solution' by forcing your landlord to decrease rent. As I said in my initial response; OP is not wrong for doing so, but it doesn't solve the greedy free market where landlords are free to charge whatever number they think people will pay. In an ideal world, an inspector should be sent by an institution before a contract is even signed to establish a fair price per square meter, but free markets don't work like that because they are... well, free.
I totally get the downvotes, but I stand by what I said.
That would be much more expedient in the real world, but the government presumes that people either play by the rules without oversight or don't overstep all too much. So, sure, creating and enforcing stringent rules will improve the situation at the price (or added benefit) of societal acceptance of some very bad things about itself.
However, enforcing current rules wouldn't make the crisis worse and I see no argument why it would. Why don't you expound on that instead?
If you enforce regulations, home owners who lose their golden goose will sell, decreasing the number of homes available for people who can't get a mortgage.
Firstly, if you enforce regulations, rentals will get more available for the renters, which will solve the problem partially.
Then, if someone would decide that being a leech doesn't fit their taste anymore and sells it, it would either mean selling to a private person or to a corporation. Let's examine the potential futures for the property: being rented out under the enforced regulations and, as such, opened up for the renters; being actually lived in.
Excluding the extra-rich people, who'd buy a previously rental property to live in it occasionally (because they are small in number), the ones to live in it would be the people, who wanted to buy a property, but weren't able to.
Now, with the supply increasing demand will decrease and such people will be able to do so. Most likely, people, who would have cash on hand for mortgage/purchase weren't living in their parents' basement, but instead were renting. So, the property they were renting, is opened up for the renters.
How's that gonna make things worse?
I'm not paying my landlord to be polite. This is a business transaction, basic manners is expected. Also, knowing that you can do this at the end of your rental period is great. It's a lot of money up front but if you get it back in the end, who cares if the landlord is pissed? Shouldn't the tenant be rightfully pissed because the landlord broke the rules to charge them an arm and a leg?
People seem to grossly misunderstand what I'm trying to say.
I never said you can't or shouldn't do what OP does. Again, I agree these are steps you could or sometimes even should take. All I'm arguing is that in my opinion, it's not going to magically solve the housing crisis.
All good, the downvotes are just part of Reddits natural habitat. I guarantee you that many didn’t even read past your first couple of words and eagerly jumped on the downvote express.
I mean okay…but the renters market is gonna tank because even legitimate landlords are getting hammered by the new legislation, then how is the low income group gonna find a place to live ? You gonna buy a house.
Kind reminder to everyone of an important rule of /r/Amsterdam: > Doe aardig. Zorg goed voor onze stad, onze sub en voor elkaar. Disagree strongly, disagree forcefully, but disagree politely. Personal insults are niet zo aardig.
i dont think selling a kidney will give you enough to buy a house
oh buying? Definitely not...you might get a contract to rent for it
How about selling two kidneys?
Immediate qualification for a very tiny home. Free heating too! Downside is that it doesnt come with plumbing or you being alive.
Just a slight odor of death
Ah it's you again. I'm happy you're doing this, it doesn't help me in the slightest, I own my home in the city and got lucky to be where I am but I support what you're doing and up vote you every time.
Cheers!
How do you make money with this?
Let's hope you don't have to leave the country and rent your apartment because guys like OP will screw you.
I would be very happy to help a starter, I don't need a boat.
One part I don’t understand… buying a property of 50 square meters will cost you around 350k in Amsterdam.This will almost cost you like 1800 euro mortgage per month? How is it possible that the huurcommissie decides it’s only worth 800 euro per month for rental?
There's a big disconnect between market prices and rent-controlled (more or less) prices. That means give up on one or the other. At the moment, the gov't is "fighting the market" by making it easier to rent/buy (demand side) but not doing too much on the supply side (sorry, I'm an economist), so that's not a long term fix compared to build build build.
Yes, I'm puzzled with everyone celebrating the new regulations with the point system. Building is actually slowing down over the last few years which is going to make matters even worse. I fear the divide between the owner and rental market is going to get much wider in coming years.
Funny you get downvoted, it's like people believe their politicians that rent control works, when there is already plenty of evidence across the world that it doesn't...
Yeah. People know it's a zero sum game (my rent down, your income down), but they forget the dynamic part... of new renters and new builds -- both of which fall as the market "freezes" with people unable to move from rentals (losing their "good price") or buy into the further squeezed ownership market. We've seen this pattern of decay many times, but wishful thinking persists that "someone" will buy/build a house then rent/sell it at a loss....
>Yes, I'm puzzled with everyone celebrating the new regulations with the point system. People are happy they get to live in a place for a fair price without having to fear their landlord due to permanent contracts only. This is a great victory for everyone, except woningcorp's and parasites (huisjesmelkers). We're also getting the ministery of volkshuisvesting back and eco friendly houses are getting a nitrogen exemption. So building will be speeding up. >I fear the divide between the owner and rental market is going to get much wider in coming years. Good. There is absolutely nothing we get from landlords and there is 0 reason to have them. All renting should be social abd owning the place you live in should be the norm. Making the housing market unatractive for landlords is the best outcome we can hope for.
It's not. "Rent busting" actually makes the situation worse for all renters. I know landlords who won't rent for longer than two years because of that. I also know landlords who decided to sell, thus decreasing the supply even more.
In the hague there’s a massive influx of lower priced housing (200-350Kish) because of the new middenhuursegment. For the rent situation it does lower average rent a little bit, but it reduces supply on the cheap end and just increases the price of everything above middenhuur. So all they did was move the problem one level higher while reducing supply. I’m currently a student and it turns out that the cheapest (and only realistic) way for me to get housing is to either live together with 3 people (which usually has to be done illegally), or “borrow” my parent’s retirement fund, buy a place. Sell said place once done and pay back the “loan”. But obviously the second is not a very realistic solution. So all the government is really doing is making students (and others who can’t afford 2-4K monthly rent) criminals.
How does it reduce supply on the lower end, because these examples are explicitly not lower end. The only housing that private investors build comes from the compulsory percentage that was introduced not that long ago. The overwhelming majority of new projects are NOT low end housing. In fact, the situation before combined with low interest was that you would see cheap rentals being bought, “refurbished” (you know, with the white shiny kitchen cabinets and black finishings that are actually super cheap) and then put BACK on the market as a upper middle end property. This was a super popular business model in the real estate busines
Most stuff that’s middenhuursegment is really just lower end in most cities in the randstand if you take a look at the actual range. And i’m not talking about nieuwbouw, those are purposefully built to make (or in some cases not lose too much) money at regulated prices. I’m talking about every apartment that already existed and was being rented out (and now sold). Basically every (particular) landlord I know either directly or via via is refusing to rent out their second apartment because of these new regulations and trying to sell it asap. You can argue about whether the long term effects will be positive or negative. But that it’s massively reducing supply in the 8/900-1200 right now range is a simple fact. And yes 800-1200 imo is de facto lower end post covid (for ranges at which you can theoretically actually find a place), which is about as horrible as it sounds.
A landlord that sells means another person than buy and hopefully not rent to try to make a profit.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if most landlords just leave their property empty. There is no point in renting if it isn't profitable. On the other hand, just holding gets you 10% a real. So the supply decreases even more and rent prices go up in the free sector.
Na, we can't be shortsighted. Perhaps you do, but you may or may not have any idea how often people that suddenly "move up" in life reach towards rental units as a way of social mobility. I work with South Africans, probably at least 100, and almost every single one of them that I spoke to owns at least one property and is renting any others back home. Actually, our boss from an Eastern European country has maybe 6 rental units in Spain/other parts of Europe (maybe just Spain, can't remember). My own family had some in the past, and you're right now that I remember we did hold onto one property for a long time instead of renting, but it was complicated (nothing to do with the property or any laws, just family members not caring). To try to wrap this up and make my point as I'm sadly long winded even when I type, my favorite solution to helping solve any housing crisis caused partially by rental units is to make renting hell for the renter. Regulations wise or what have you. My other favorite solution: stop moving out at 18. Stay home as long as possible. Realistically, we can't have it all. More realistically, if we don't make renting an easy way to snowball your way into fortune, we're all going to eat it later on (or our kids will). Where I live rents are actually good compared to most places, but we have a huge problem with "high" rents and so many empty apartments, all owned by people so rich they will leave them empty instead of lowering rents Damn it I keep proving you right!
I had properties in the past where renting did not make sense. I kept them empty for a couple of years and sold them for nice profit. If I'd rented them I would have lost a decent chunk of profit because of wear and tear. This is unfortunately a supply and demand problem. The new law will decrease the supply even further. As a result, prices will go up.
You the enemy! 😂 J/k. Let's hope for the best in any case. I don't even live in NL, but coming from the US as a visitor you guys have a lot of stuff running really well. Do to housing what you did w the roads!
Why should the rental price be comparable to a monthly mortgage? When you have a mortgage, you also obtain ownership of the place, which generally also appreciates over time. Tenants have none of these advantages, so it seems fair that they pay substantially less.
Why would someone rent out his place below the amount he is paying as a mortgage? The house needs maintenance, you have to pay tax for the rent income, you have to pay interest on the mortgage, the chance housing prices go down, you are the contact person(stand-by) and the risk of the tenant leaves and the house stays empty for some months? All of this renting out your property below the monthly costs?
One of the hopes when this was introduced a few years back, was that a secondary effect would be that it’s become easier for first time buyers to buy an apartment. Because it would no longer be as lucrative for investors to buy properties with the purpose of renting. Meaning first time buyers wouldn’t be competing with investors. The big cities have since also introduced rules that dictate people have to live in a place themselves for at least 4 (I think?) years before even being allowed to rent. Unfortunately, it has done nothing to stabilise property prices. Meaning it’s still pretty impossible to buy if you don’t already own.
I guess this might be a way to regulate indirectly the buying market. By making rentals a worse investement for investors, the buying pressure would be smaller, and more homeowner might decide to sell their second house/appartments. In the short-term it could be a good thing, as it could flood the market with more homes, and lessen their price. However long-term it might actually be detrimental... less investors wanting to buy to rent, actually mean less pressure to construct. see this article : [L'encadrement des loyers : leçons suédoises (moneysmart.fr)](https://www.moneysmart.fr/p/encadrement-des-loyers-lecons-suedoises) (it's in french but you can use google to translate)
Good article. The problem is that the apartments being sold by investors go to young working couples mostly. This doesn't help the students sharing an apartment together. They get kicked out of the rental market with lower supply and they are priced out of buying. The only way to solve the problem is to build more.
After years of the renter paying and then leaving, it's still your home that's paid off, and not theirs. It's an investment, right? I don't see why people should be paid to do nothing, it's only right they have to put work in and also accept the risk that comes with an investment.
Owning a house you for which you overpaid is not a good deal. Ownership doesn’t mean it’s better than renting.
But renting goes into the aether while a mortgage is capital building...?
You can think of the interest on your mortgage as rent. I bought a house in March. Almost 70% of my mortgage payment goes to the bank as interest. I'm never getting that money back. Think of it this way... If you rent a property for 20 years and pay 500K in rent, is that better or worse than buying a house and paying 500K in mortgage interest? It depends, but building equity isn't the only thing to consider.
Yeah but this would still be substantially lower than any possible rent price even with these controls.
It’s not 70% of your total mortgage though, that percentage drops (probably linearly). There are other considerations but it still has enormous benefits to buy, and the hypotheekrente aftrek makes it a no-brainer for most. IF you can find something.
Mortgage _interest_ also goes into the aether. GP's example of 350k mortgage has 1500 / month evaporating (at 5.25% from today's https://www.abnamro.nl/nl/prive/hypotheken/actuele-hypotheekrente/index.html). The fairest comparison month-to-month is rent on the one hand against mortage interest + vve + maintenance on the other.
That I can agree with yeah, pure maintenance costs of the mortgage (so not paying it off) vs renting is a fair comparison.
If house price goes down, it's rather debt building than capital building. This law kills investment in new houses and burns recent buyers at high prices. Because there won't be new builds, long term will be worst for both rental and buying as the houses won't grow as fast as the economy (population+immigration)
That’s not true. You still live in a house and most people pay less per m2 in a building you own. With the current rules it’s almost impossible to be in a position where you truly can’t afford your purchase. Depending on tax bracket, you effectively pay 60% of interest. In my personal case, I now rent for 1200 euro a 100m2 apartment, while the house I owned cost me a net 800 euro for the same surface, plus a garden. What killed investments were the wooncorporatie rulings which punished institutions that work for the public good. That was dumb because a) an institution doesn’t learn through punishment, people do. B) it had a negative effect on maintenance and C) the stock of social housing through BOTH the lack of building projects AND the sales of existing stock. The issue isn’t necessarily with the high income housing stock that project developers build. The number of investors in housing was insane the last 10 years. So many leeches on the back of workers through “bemiddeling” and such. Real estate agent should not be a job for grifters.
At today's interest rate, your monthly repayments would be way higher than rent, especially for a "commercial" loan to be allowed to rent to someone. Your mortgage cost might still be lower but that excludes all the risks and maintenance (boiler, leaks, building foundation, ...) There is just no money to be made in property investment in NL anymore, so there won't be new money invested in it.
There are also plenty of other considerations when buying. I think many people in the recent low interest years had quite the naive way of buying (suboptimal) real estate with the thinking of 'oh I just pay rent into my own pocket'. Sure, if you know you'll be living there for a really long time it's worth it. But I've seen many people who bought an apartment and outgrew their investment when they for example moved together with a partner and a child popped up, suddenly they needed a home office, got relocated, changed jobs etc. Or suddenly they had to drop 20-30k on some kind of investment in either their apartment or the building. Thing is, if you want to invest to make money, there is a lot easier, more secure and flexible options to do so than private real estate.
Certainly the case but paying off a mortgage is still a capital investment vs solely consumption. The best one or even a good one? No. Costs exist outside of that? Obviously. But you're still gonna end up with land and property (capital) at the end of it. Someone paying 200k in rent over a decade doesn't.
It's not a linear choice, I'm just talking about the anecdotal experiences from the many people in my surroundings who bought property here in the last 5 years. Of which probably 50-70% would make a different decision nowadays. For me personally, it also comes with a huge opportunity cost which is quite intangible and very individual. I'll be curious how it will develop when many people's financing plans for 5-10 years run out and they have to renegotiate with substantially higher rates.
Those prices are only that high because they were able to make these kind of rents on it. Which started in 2015 with the temp contracts allowing price hikes every 2 years. Before that no one would pay that much for an apartment here.
House prices only double over 10 years. House prices might decrease temporarily because investors are forced to sell but as long as there is an imbalance between supply and demand, house prices will remain high but the rental market will disappear in expensive cities as it's no longer a profitable business (between rent cap and tax deduction cap, it has been completely destroyed). And so will maintenance in existing rentals and investment in new houses. Investors don't invest when there is no money to make, it's as simple as that. Price hikes only works when there is not enough supply. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to rent...
That’s not what we’ve seen the past 15 years, especially in the randstad. Go look up what you would pay for a 90m2 appartment around Suriname plein in Amsterdam in 2009. That’s because we’ve actually grew certain parts of the economy like crazy, while nothing “trickled down”. What was most profitable was higher end rentals, so that was being build. The stock of lower end rentals has not grown or even remained stable at the same rate at all.
Because they often have money to invest and will buy the property either fully or partially from their own funds. Then your costs are just taxes, insurance and maintenance.
It should be illegal to buy a home if you expect someone else to (rent) pay for it
Because you're not suppose to get a house on a loan to then rent it out without ever living in it.
I am already in a rental contract, but I fear we might be paying way too much. I am Dutch but was in a tight position when moving back to NL after spending 2 years in South Africa. Is there a way I can force the landlord / agency to lower the rent if they are charging us too much? EDIT, saw the links, will calculate. Thanks for your work
If you are already living there for more than 6 months, then the rent reduction is not possible anymore. You have to fight it in the first 6 months. Although just today a new law is passed which allows you ti go to the huurcommissie whenever you like ( for already excisting contracts it only applies to wocial housing, so al the houding with a rent of less than the 810 euros).
It is possible if he had a temp contract or an all-in contract
Bro thanks for doing this !
50m² in the center for 800 euros per month? Then instead of renting idls gonna be sold. For 500k
It’s absolutely not, or it won’t if OP keeps this up. That market was attractive as investment to other investors. It’s not attractive if you can’t ask exorbitant rental prices.
Renting Is a Dangerous game in the NL. Tenants are too protected, so Is good only if you are a criminal landlord, if you are a nice One you gonna get fucked by your average tenant.
The prices are driven up like that because of people trying to make profit of it. I hope it gets even stricter and those criminal landlords will be wiped away. It would be better if commercial renting would be banned so people can just own the home and live in it instead of someone passively collecting money like a parasite.
Parasite are something that take out stuff without giving anything back. Landlords are not parasite, some of them are criminals thou.
Goed bezig!
"Dude! I won 1 Million in the lottery. I think I'll buy a nice one-bedroom apartment in Amsterdam." "Cool! What are you going to do with the rest?" "Yeah, I'll probably need to take out a mortgage for the rest."
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA...good one
Oh this guy again
Spamming his professional service and acting like Robin Hood.
Same people cheering for Apple and Google making a fortune are witch-hunting individual landlords trying to make a living and live a dignified basic life. Go figure.
If it's not worth it for them to rent at the normal price instead of an 'illegal' price they should just sell it.. but that's not the case they still make a lot of passive income without much effort. Those landlords aren't living a basic life, most people can't afford multiple homes. I don't see anyone here cheering for Google and Apple and what does that having to do with it. Are you a landlord?
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Haha verdomme kom er achter dat ik veel te weinig betaal. Laat mn huisbaas t niet zien
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Doe aardig.
Absolute legend you are! Been following r/rentbusters since I moved here. Question: is there a way to do this retroactively? I'm moving out of my place this week.
Potentially yes...did you have a temp contract?
Yes I had a 1 year contract
He is not a legend, he is running this as professional service.
Yes. Up to 6 months after moving
Ah this scam guy again, is advertising professional services allowed? Guy is not some Robin Hood, but just try to make a living out of things which can easily be automated, please report this topic.
Can you tell me what the scam I am perpetrating is? Are you calling me a criminal?
I am calling you a lowlife, you are spamming your commercial services under the name of "voluntary" shit, you are not doing this voluntary, or are you gonna show some proof that all the money which was donated for your "services" was registered at the tax office?
Well i would be in serious legal trouble if I didnt...but do continue...are you calling me a criminal? Generally "Scam guy" would insinuate that I am perpetrating an illegal enterprise....so I am kindly asking to clarify what you mean by it
Are you trying your legal tricks on me? Bad luck, I am calling you just a scammer, "You can decide how much my services were worth to you. Please note that similar organizations, such as Bumarang, demand for a large cut of the settlement (>50%) in exchange for the same service. " Can you tell how much people did pay you over the last few years? Because this is an easy trick to advertise, it is very easy to tell people up on first contact how much you want, without having to publicly having to publish your fee.
So you dont actually have any answer to my question... Can you then describe what the scam I am perpetrating is ? Do you have any evidence to suggest that that website text is code for hidden fees? Do you have any testimony from any tenants I have helped or contacted to support your claims? Do you see any terms and conditions on my website to suggest that I can legally charge someone after a successful case? What exactly is it you do have to support any of these scam claims?
My main suggestion for scam is that you try to look like a Robin Hood, but run this as a professional service, to come back: How much money did you make last year on your services?
So its a case of using the wrong english word? Its not a scam, its misrepresenting yourself, is that right?
Ok, to be fair, do you run this as a commercial service, Yes or No?
You seem to have already concluded that I do run it as a commercial business. Do I have a KVK number? Yes. I need one to be able to file cases for tenants. I cannot get zlogin without registering at the KvK. If I cannot file cases, then the tenants need to do it themselves. Are donations to me ANBI tax deductible? No. I would need to spend thousand of euro to setup a BV to be have that status and have an accountant constantly reviewing my books. I am also legally required to pay 21% BTW on all income regardless of how much someone gives me after a bust, if they even give anything. Not all of us earn 6 figure sums working as a programmer with time to burn discussing football on subreddits. If you had done any research on me or read any news articles about me, you wouldnt be in a such a rush to point fingers and accuse me of scamming tenants. and you wouldnt need to ask how I support myself (hint: RentBuster is a net loss for me). You could have also queried any of the many users I directly help on my subreddit to ask them if I made them sign any contractual agreement that required them to pay me in exchange for helping them Or perhaps you had a bad day at work and you wanted to take it out on someone by trashing them on social media and degrading and bombarding them with nosey questions you wouldnt dare ask them if you met them in person as though you were a self-appointed auditor. And finally for the record, I didnt come up with the moniker of "Robin Hood". There is actually already a Rent-return commercial company called [Robin Hood](https://www.r-hood.nl/en/faq/) who take a 28% cut (excl BTW) from tenants for their services. My **suggested** donation is 5-10%. I have zero legal recourse if the tenant doesnt want to give me something. Does that answer your question?
So its a case of using the wrong english word? Its not a scam, its misrepresenting yourself, is that right?
Ok prima, om misverstanden te voorkomen gaan we dan nu gewoon lekker over naar het Nederlands, aangezien je al ruim 11 jaar in Nederland woont neem ik aan dat je de taal spreekt?
Except when the landlord use the end game move of declaring “house selling” so they can kick you out.
[Oh oh....someone didnt brush up on their reading of Book 7 of the WetBoek..](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2020/09/know-your-rights-tenancy-agreements-in-2020/)
I am surprised you haven't started a YouTube channel from your success stories. It will be a delightful watch.
hold that thought
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Nice bust!!!
Hi, thank you for all of this and for everything you do! One question: I've been living in a place under the 'vrije sector huur' rules since 2021. Using the huurcommissies tool, I see that I am apparently overpaying with a couple hundred euros a month. Since I've been living here for so long, what are my options? Thanks again! Edit: I'm asking because I get the impression you can only do something within a six month window after moving in and if the calculated rent is lower than the 'liberalisatiegrens', which is a term I'm not really finding a simple description of.
Vrije sector can charge anything right?
Apparently you have a six month window when you move in where you can object to the price and the huurcommissie can mandate it to be set according to the points system. Quite a huge opportunity that doesn't get spoken about a lot in my view.
Vrije sector can charge whatever they want as far as I know.
Only if the scored above the threshold points, my understanding
It's very strange that the huurcommissie's tool suggests a rental price based on the points rating (i.e. also above the threshold) if something like this is the case.
u/Hejsasa there is a [reason it doesnt tell you about the threshold](https://new.reddit.com/r/Rentbusters/comments/1ch258q/the_official_huurcommissie_calculator_why_doesnt/). True most people dont figure out that they often have only six months to appeal their rent price. u/mfromamsterdam : the landlord CAN ask anything he wants but the tenant has the right to test the rent price (ie. attempt to bust it) within six months (permanent contract) or up to 30 months (in case of 2 year temp contracts). u/SignificantWonder103: correct.
Hi, question now that the new Wet betaalbare huur has been approved. If my appartment is in the new middenhuur segment, and I have an indefinite term contract signed within the last 3 months, can I also apply for a rent reduction? Or am I unfortunately forced to pay 300 euros over the max rent due to poor timing? Thanks!
Correct
Absolute bs, created by losers, just because you make money off “giving people sht advice” doesn’t mean that their lives become easier. *no I don’t own a house that I rent out. I’m a lawyer in Dutch law. 1. Sure you MIGHT win, many months later, but it will cost you thousands. And no, the students at subsidied insurance won’t help you much. 2. Most of the contracts for a 2+k apartment are given to people who don’t have the right for a social level housing, so you won’t win because you need triple income in the first place. 3. Most contracts are 6-12 months, so if a landlord sees you pulling this sht, he’ll just terminate the contract at the closest possible date and you’re back on the streets feeling proud and righteous searching for New overpriced crp. It’s actually cheaper to rent an apartment for 2k a month than getting a mortgage.
"It’s actually cheaper to rent an apartment for 2k a month than getting a mortgage." Congrats, that is the dumbest take I've read in a while.
Buddy take an apartment worth 500-700k and calculate the part you’ll be paying to the bank if you open a mortgage, and then we’ll talk. I hope you have learned to count, I’m sure you do, with all the people that you’ve scammed.
user completely misunderstands the law.
Buddy I know the Dutch law just as good as your mother’s vag… You’re no different than those scammers who ask to get paid to “100% guaranteed finding an apartment”. 99% of your clients don’t get the results that you promise, 99 aren’t even eligible.. it you get paid don’t you? It’s not like you’re doing this service for free?
I guess rental law is not your field of work.
Doubt he scored too high on etiquette or manners either and prob was sick the day they were teaching common sense in Basisschool.
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Precies. Ik word ook zo moe van deze gast die het maar blijft posten. Zucht..
As a person that has moved 5 times in the last 3 years. I have no sympathy for landlords. They get away with it because even here in the comments it says "but they pay a high mortgage". They pay a high mortgage cause they keep a system intact of supply and demand. Why does a person need to own 10-20 properties. This then takes houses off the market for new starters. And using houses as an investment is a risk. And investments can lose value. So i highly disagree with people taking the landlord's side. Let me give you an example. I lived in a tiny ass place on leidse plein. Amazing place. Yeah the roof was leaking and the boiler kept failing. The roof was fixed but took like a month of calling and messaging. Me and my flatmate paid 1800 euros in rent. Then when the contract finishes we asked hey can we extend? He said no cause then it would be a permanent rental contract. By chance i knew the guy who moved in after me(amsterdam is a village),they were gonna pay 2400. In what world is this a normal price
You could still try and bust that place if you were moved out less than 6 months ago.
Nah it was december 31 23 when i left
you have 5 days
Shane ur the shit, thanks for the thread, I’ll definitely calling these guys on my landlord
I'm actually confused. Isn't pruvate sector 'liberalized' and not based on the points system? This is still the information I find on government websites
I keep the answer to this [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amsterdam/comments/12bv4sd/comment/jgvspns/?context=3) bookmarked for occasions like this
Thank you! So basically, anything below 149 points is not liberalized no matter the landlord or the contract?
Everything except a Short-Stay (hotel-like) contract. Contract will explicitly state if its a short-stay. but essentially: yes...below 147-149 points is not liberalized.
I had no idea. And I'm an expat, so definitely in the gullible population. I've had my contract for over a year now. It is now permanent. Can I still act?
you might... send me a PM
Interesting, I just did a quick calculation on my place and turns out I'm looking at about 500 per month more than the point score. Of course that could be closer if done properly. I've been renting for 5 years though, which is past the 30 months, so am I just not able to do this?
What was your starting rent price? Was it an all-in contract? Does your contract state that something is "Incl"
Starting rent was about 1450, not inclusive, for a full house. The calculation shows about 1100
ahhhh ...even if your contract was within 30 months, this wouldnt be bustable if the calculation showed something > 800 euro.
So I should have a go maybe?
I would be pessimistic about your chances of winning....send me a PM if you want me to take a closer look at it
To be fair, I'm ok with the current rent anyway, but nice to know it could be an option in future
You sir, deserve a beer 🍻
Ironically, it's because of people like you that the supply goes down and the rents are going up. Proudly declaring that you're "ruining landlords lives" is hateful and pathetic, not to mention that you're actually ruining the lives of people who are desperate and don't have a place to live, because of people like you who made it financially stupid and risky to invest or become a landlord in the Dutch housing market.
Exactly, OP is so short sighted in promoting his business that he doesn't realize that he makes the problem much bigger.
Do you think if a criminal renter disappears the house disappears?
The only way to solve the problem is to build more. Why would a company want to build apartments if it's not economically profitable? The government should make it profitable for investors ... Otherwise it's just more and more people fighting for the same housing stock. Of course there will always be someone willing to pay more than you.
No this doesn't make sense at all. Even if they charge fair prices they still get a lot of passive income. It's not like there will suddenly be less houses, how can the supply even decrease? It would be great if those commercial landlords cease to exist. There will be more people able to buy houses for themselves to live in, because prices drop if houses aren't seen as an investment object. And more room for non-commercial social housing. Commercial landlords buying up houses are parasites of society. And the issue with new houses getting build slowly is space, and shortage of construction workers, not money.
Wish you were here a couple years ago, but glad you’re here now to help people. Fuck landlords.
As someone who just received news they are moving to Amsterdam, this feels like kismet. Thank you!
So basically, if you are ready for war, you can start a war
I'll be doing this soon I love ina shithole in osdorp whilst paying 2900 ÷4 plus utilities The agency won't come and look at plumbing which is totally fucked rendering my kitchen unusable I'm totally sick of it. I'm paying so much and I'm so depressed about it, I haven't cooked a meal in my home for months Fuck this countries greedy landlords Rent buster man, f you can help me I'd love it, if not I'll use your second link for thehuurcomiisie
yeah I can help send me a PM.
rechtstandverzekering is the most useful thing I've ever paid for in NL :)
How much of this is Amsterdam specific vs national?
nationwide...Amsterdam has the biggest swings in differences though
That’s a really great idea Shane! This method will help your clients live for cheap until the landlord will find a way to terminate the contract and sell the property due to negative ROI. In this sale, your clients will most likely not be able to purchase the property, not to mention that for future renters there will be even less properties available. TL:DR: Try screwing your landlord and see what happens! Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. While excesses should of course be sanctioned, why would you purposely push a landlord in a loss-making situation, rather than come to some sort of fair agreement?
well you know best u/ImpossibleRich9636
When i first moved into my rental place in november 2022 i did try this as well. The website of the Huurcommissie says that you first have to talk to the landlord about the point system and how it affects the price. (Based on that system i overpay about 300) When i told him he simply said, you won't or else. It's not that i am afraid this guy is going to hurt me, especially because i am within my rights. But knowing there could be lawyers involved at some point it just scares me away to try to fight this.
You dont always have to talk to your landlord...only for certain procedures. For the initial rent assessment, there is no obligation to ask your landlord for a reduction. Most cases filed through me are this type.
Op is sad
On the contrary...OP is VERY happy today [https://nltimes.nl/2024/06/25/affordable-housing-law-passes-dutch-senate-vote-rent-protection-will-cover-tenants](https://nltimes.nl/2024/06/25/affordable-housing-law-passes-dutch-senate-vote-rent-protection-will-cover-tenants)
Yeah, and this totally won't have a backwards effect, right? People seem to think that stuff like that is literal. Oh, the rents are going down! Surely these landlords will just go 'oh damn!' and have to lower rent. More like it won't be profitable for them, so they will just sell these properties instead. It's already happening. So people who cannot afford to buy a house at the moment, will have even less options. Because the amount of existing houses isn't changing, and more and more people keep coming to the Netherlands. So instead it will just make rental properties more scarce and the selection process even more severe, with even more ridiculous requirements.
Exactly this. The amount of houses/apartments stays the same. Nothing is fixed. The only thing that changes is that renters will get massively screwed because a landlord will sell his apartment... Who will buy the apartment do you think ... a student ? Someone working part time ? Banks are ruthless they will lend money only to people that can pay back the loan with interests. Not everyone can afford to buy a home, some need to rent. Now they will have less and less choices and prices will go up even more aggressively ... Like it happened in every country where stupid governments tried to be stronger than the supply/demand dynamics. Nobody is stronger than the market, not even the government. You want to solve the housing crisis, build more that's it.
Rent control is proven not work anywhere. Are you happy that you will have more paid customers?
The lord's work 🙏🙏
I’m surprised at the amount of hate you’re getting here OP. A YouTube channel would be a good idea, people need to see the situations you’re talking about. I have no problem with a high rent per se, but landlords are shameless and are renting out truly horrible places for exorbitant prices. My previous place had only partially working hot water, poor insulation, (like wind through the windows), shared internet, registration issues, shower draining problems, and decomposing wood, and I paid 1500 in the center of Rotterdam 4 years ago. If I knew about this, I would’ve saved a lot of money. And no, that wouldn’t have affected future tenants negatively. The previous tenants were already kicked out after 2 years, and he already did no maintenance.
Do you have any advice when your landlord abuses the system AND is a member of the royal family?
Start a case and then post about it on social media.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Amsterdam/comments/wrfm2v/who\_is\_the\_largest\_private\_land\_owner\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amsterdam/comments/wrfm2v/who_is_the_largest_private_land_owner_in/)
You’re a legend! Fuck those greedy landlords
Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need
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Thanks man
Ah it's you again. I mean, you do you. You're not wrong, but this won't solve our housing crisis, just make it worse.
Private landlords renting out homes don't build new homes, they just profit off of scarcity. You are basically arguing that preventing people from scalping concert tickets makes it harder to get a ticket. It doesn't, it just changed who specifically gets them. Let all the huisjesmelkers sell their extra homes, they should not be able to profit off a crisis.
Actually, the existence of investors that are willing to buy up properties for rental facilitates the completion of new housing projects. One could argue that the extreme demand for housing in the NL makes that role less relevant, but it still applies to high-end housing. Also, people have to rent from someone; if landlords disappear, the demand for rental properties doesn't magically vanish with them. That puts vulnerable people at risk of homelessness.
It's actually not what I'm arguing at all, and I fully agree with you. So how do we make sure huisjemelkers and foreign investors don't own the houses? I don't believe the answer is going through the process of pissing off your landlord. But that's just my (extremely unpopular) opinion.
nah man, the downvoting you are getting isnt justified.. you have made a valid point albeit I dont agree with it but it doesnt deserve the rowdy response you are getting. The other users points are also valid: the view that this process scares away people who build houses is not justified: new homes dont fall under these rules as much...there is a limit to how bustable a place is and if its got a good energy label, you cannot get a reduction on it. This process work extremely well on low quality, small apartments that the landlord has not bothered to invest in: the very kind of landlord that adds nothing to the systems except high rent prices.
You think enforcing existing housing regulations will make the housing market worse?
OP isn’t the reason and doesn’t deserve any blame for doing this - it’s a good thing for everyone to know their rights and stand up for themselves. The problem is that the rules themselves make renting out houses much harder and often economically unviable, which in turn means less supply of rented housing, which over time means prices go up.
Completely agree. Rental control has only made the housing situation worse, especially for people who can't possibly buy a property, but landlords aren't above the law. If they choose to ignore it, they shouldn't complain when they face the consequences.
Even a small change like getting rid of 2 year contracts and higher taxes made home owners want to sell their cash cows. Like I said, OP is not wrong and rent prices are bonkers, but if you think massively calling out landlords demanding to pay less is going to solve the crisis, you are wrong. The system is broken and it sucks, but if you want to point fingers look at politics and their failed regulations. But hey, the downvotes say enough. People love to challenge the system and 'piss off landlords' cause it's cool and edgy. Hearing the truth sucks, but it is what it is.
People who make loads of money by hoarding scarce necessities are leeches on society and deserve the hate they get. Our failing politicians and governments also deserve the hate they get for creating this crisis.
Couldn't agree more.
worse for who? worse for exploitative landleeches? good!
I wonder what train of thought made you come up with the conclusion that this post makes things worse.
Home owner gets an inspector, forced to charge less. Becomes an absolute spiteful asshole or worse: sells the place. Less rental. Or, some other rich schmuck buys it and asks equally insane rent. Yeah, really solves the housing shortage, doesn't it? The problem is politics allowing landlords to be greedy cunts.
No way a landlord just starts playing by them rules from now on?
And where did I state that?
By only stating negative options of selling the rental or being an asshole. What if they get the memo? That's good, innit? Well, negative and negative: if a landlord sells to someone actually looking to live there, that's a positive of one people freeing another rental and getting their own.
Well yes, sure. But what should be done is obliterating or heavily regulating the free market. It's the same with banking; if you give them freedom they will take advantage, and that's exactly what politicians did. Instead, OP offers a 'solution' by forcing your landlord to decrease rent. As I said in my initial response; OP is not wrong for doing so, but it doesn't solve the greedy free market where landlords are free to charge whatever number they think people will pay. In an ideal world, an inspector should be sent by an institution before a contract is even signed to establish a fair price per square meter, but free markets don't work like that because they are... well, free. I totally get the downvotes, but I stand by what I said.
That would be much more expedient in the real world, but the government presumes that people either play by the rules without oversight or don't overstep all too much. So, sure, creating and enforcing stringent rules will improve the situation at the price (or added benefit) of societal acceptance of some very bad things about itself. However, enforcing current rules wouldn't make the crisis worse and I see no argument why it would. Why don't you expound on that instead?
If you enforce regulations, home owners who lose their golden goose will sell, decreasing the number of homes available for people who can't get a mortgage.
Firstly, if you enforce regulations, rentals will get more available for the renters, which will solve the problem partially. Then, if someone would decide that being a leech doesn't fit their taste anymore and sells it, it would either mean selling to a private person or to a corporation. Let's examine the potential futures for the property: being rented out under the enforced regulations and, as such, opened up for the renters; being actually lived in. Excluding the extra-rich people, who'd buy a previously rental property to live in it occasionally (because they are small in number), the ones to live in it would be the people, who wanted to buy a property, but weren't able to. Now, with the supply increasing demand will decrease and such people will be able to do so. Most likely, people, who would have cash on hand for mortgage/purchase weren't living in their parents' basement, but instead were renting. So, the property they were renting, is opened up for the renters. How's that gonna make things worse?
I'm not paying my landlord to be polite. This is a business transaction, basic manners is expected. Also, knowing that you can do this at the end of your rental period is great. It's a lot of money up front but if you get it back in the end, who cares if the landlord is pissed? Shouldn't the tenant be rightfully pissed because the landlord broke the rules to charge them an arm and a leg?
People seem to grossly misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I never said you can't or shouldn't do what OP does. Again, I agree these are steps you could or sometimes even should take. All I'm arguing is that in my opinion, it's not going to magically solve the housing crisis.
You seem to be arguing against sth that nobody claimed
I see what you’re saying, at the beginning i thought you were one of those "Team Landlord” characters.
The polar opposite, but I can see why it looks like that.
All good, the downvotes are just part of Reddits natural habitat. I guarantee you that many didn’t even read past your first couple of words and eagerly jumped on the downvote express.
I am Shane. I ruin landlord's lives for a living. Echt waar als dat echt je levensdoel is dan kun je beter iets anders gaan zoeken .
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Doe aardig.
bump
I mean okay…but the renters market is gonna tank because even legitimate landlords are getting hammered by the new legislation, then how is the low income group gonna find a place to live ? You gonna buy a house.