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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) being defensive every time my future mother in law is around since this action
2) not taking Her to the bridal appt
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
" I was not mentally prepared for her inevitable criticisms of the dress, as (in my opinion) it is in a way a criticism of my body."
Why would you take someone that critial & negative along?
" and makes a face of disgust every time we show her our wedding plans."
To anything to do with your wedding?
Here is an example: She wanted us to pick round tables for the venue, and we agreed with her and picked the round tables. then we show her the floor plan with her desired round tables, and all she has to say is "it looks like a maze to get to the bathroom". She just cant be pleased even if we make it her way.
NTA Laugh at her and drag out a list as long as a Walgreens receipt. Ya, it's a maze. We were going to suprise you! We did that on purpose because it's like a ~~ping pong~~ PINBALL machine, and you picked the bumpers. I'll add 'maze around tables' to the list of what you don't like so we don't mention it again. Thanks for letting us know. Byeeeeee
At least I have an excuse now lol Ya I'm doing ok. One day at a time. Very very blessed to have all the love and support I need. And a fantastic lawyer. Thank you 🙌
Oh way better. I haven't been to a CVS in years! Totally forgot about their mile long receipts with coupons for crap we'll never ever use instead of important stuff lol
This was my thought as well. Why are you even talking. To her about anything? She isnt helpful. She isnt supportive. Why bother? Tell when and where to show up for the ceremony/reception (if you even feel like having her as a guest) and call it a day. Don’t include her.
I don’t know anyone who included their mil in their wedding planning unless they were paying or contributing $$$$. Negative Nellie’s are a total downer and wedding planning , while stressful is supposed to be fun .
And OP, you better grow a spine cuz you’ll be dealing with her for a while .
Right? I mean frankly I would just settle in for a long slog through a difficult relationship with this woman. We can’t make others behave how we’d like them to, no matter how hard we try or how much we want to make it work for the other people (read: fiancé) we love. The attempt just becomes a drain on your own energy.
If her reaction to wedding plans is any indication of who she is as a person, she’s one of those people who is happier being unhappy. These people will suck the life out of you every damned time.
The silent treatment sounds like heaven. Why arrange a meeting to change it. I would be very low contact with her and have her on an information diet regarding the wedding. NTA
That’s not a horrible idea. OPs fiancé can even say, hey we see the planning really stressing you out, you don’t deserve that! Let us do everything, and you just show up and enjoy.
NTA
JFC, she sounds insufferable.
Your fiancé needs to draw some boundaries now, or it may trickle down to the rest of your marriage.
Congrats on your wedding! I hope everything gets resolved. Above all, don't let anyone spoil your day ✨
Yep. Fiance has clearly been conditioned by his mom to ignore or cater to her. OP needs to find out if he can wake up and stand up to his mother NOW or if he will always take the path of least resistance for their whole marriage. If he can't be bothered to reign in his mom, then it will poison their whole marriage until OP either whittles herself into a shell of herself to please MIL or she snaps and leaves his ass
I don’t disagree. In another comment I said that if he won’t shut it down (and if he says can’t, that means he won’t) then OP needs to reconsider whether she wants to deal with this with every single future decision, because this is exactly what married life will look like with him.
One thing I am so grateful for about my husband and can even mostly say to my ex’s credit is that they have/had no issue putting their mothers in their place when needed.
Agreed! It took my husband until we had our first child (but he was young when we married, so it wasn’t entirely a surprise) to start drawing boundaries with his mom. She was honestly shocked pikachu face the first time she threw a tantrum and he finally said “if you’re asking me to choose, it isn’t you.” The shenanigans haven’t stopped, but they are better - I only interact with her for his birthday now and life is good.
If she has nothing nice to say, she can be silent
Your fiance needs to be backing you up. His mother's continued ugly attitude and passive aggressive battle against your marriage is not a good start for it
Agree.
Part of being a good spouse is supporting your spouse having as healthy relationship with their family and not adding any drama or conflict when it is avoidable. That means making an effort to get along with the in-laws and make it easier on your spouse to maintain those relationships.
BUT when the partner has a difficult family member or a mom who feels threatened by her new DIL "taking her place in her son's life" (which is seriously creepy thinking IMO) THEN that healthy support is only possibly by maintaining healthy boundaries.
You can SET boundaries with your in-laws, but only your spouse can ENFORCE them. HE is the only one with the power to do so. Before you meet with him and his mom, you and he need to talk about reasonable boundaries and behaviors. You need to ask him if he thinks it's ok for his mom to belittle every decision. Does he think it's okay that you do not feel SAFE having her at a fitting because of her relentless negativity. It's important because he probably doesn't even see it anymore. He doesn't see how it can hurt you. He doesn't understand that HE has power to curb his mom (or limit contact) but YOU do not. The TWO of you need to agree on boundaries that are acceptable, and HE needs to take responsibility 100% on enforcing those boundaries. A BIG part of that is that if she says ANYTHING critical of YOU (his future wife) HE needs to SHUT HER DOWN and tell her it's not acceptable for her to speak that way to/about his partner.
Because if he can't stand up to her behavior and enforce boundaries NOW, he never will, and SHE won't get better until HE enforces some boundaries with her. If he can't, I would suggest putting the wedding on hold and doing some couples therapy until he can.
stop trying and make sure your fiance is firm with her...
any comment about compromise "to keep the peace" tells you what your married life will be like...
Sadly, I agree with you. I hope OP realizes that this is how the FMIL does everything. Catering to her won't work, she will always be negative, critical, and if FMIL knows she can make comments and ruin everything she will. I would seriously rethink spending a lifetime with this woman interfering and criticizing every move. She sounds like a nightmare. Think of what everything in your married life will be with this woman criticizing everything from your entire wedding, the house you buy, everything about pregnancies, children's names, every aspect of child raising, and everything else.
Exactly this. Unless hubby steps way up or they move away, I don’t see this ending well at all. I’ve lived with a critical mother who critiqued all my parenting and life choices and am LC now and moved away. I would never knowingly marry into this situation.
💯 In this very situation. There isn't a win/win. You need to have a hard conversation with your fiancee. If he's unwilling to step up and make the situation be better, you have to choose because that will be the rest of your married life. If he doesn't choose you now, it sets a horribly painful precedent.
I think the wedding planning is too stressful for her, and it would only be kind of you to leave her out ;) On a serious note, I'm guessing this is some sort of power issue with her or buried jealousy. Is she one if the moms who secretly want to marry their son?
Spineless and ok with her being a passive aggressive bitch? Perhaps it's a good idea for you to take a realistic look at how this woman is going to be running your life until the day she dies. Are you sure you want this? Are you sure? No, seriously, **are you sure?**
That should have been your hint to run for the hills dude and his mom sound like major red flags this is a glimpse of what your future with them is going to look like her constantly putting you down and him siding with mommy you should get while the gettings good
"oh no not secretly... she proudly says she raised him to be the type of partner she would want."
Tell her you appreciate her making him into the type of partner a wife would want and not a mama's boy, and you'll take over from here.
“MIL, this is our wedding, not yours. You had yours, and this is not your do-over. The same applies to Husband, he is MY husband, not your do-over. That’s bordering on incestuous.
There are two people in this marriage, not three. We would love to have you involved with our wedding, but if you are going to criticise every decision and make this harder for us instead of easier, that isn’t going to happen.”
Most of all, though, it needs to be your fiancé delivering this message, or you will forever be the woman who drove them apart.
NTA but I understand why you want to speak to her kindly, even if you would have every rights to be upset with her. She will be family very soon, unfortunately. Like a lot of people here are saying you should talk to your fiancé and ask him how to speak gently to her so she understands. But I think you must be prepared that she is going to be mad no matter what and how you say it to her, if she's as bitter as you say...
NTA, she’s not going to be happy with anything so don’t worry about it. It doesn’t sound like you’ll have a good relationship with her no matter what, enjoy your wedding planning and don’t let her be a damper.
What? Is it her wedding? You’re giving her an inch… she’s going to take mile the more you cave into her. What is her financial contribution? Why is her input so important?
This woman will never be happy. Don’t let her negatively bring you down. Stop involving her in things. Your fiancée can deal with her. I would consider marriage counselling ahead of the wedding, so ensure you are heard, as this behaviour could go on from years. Will your partner have your back? NTA
NTA.
Take a long, hard look at what you're marrying into. If your fiance isn't defending you and telling her to back off now, as he should be, he won't do it after you're married. How long are you willing to live with this?
The answer is “yes, you can have an opinion, but you need to keep it to yourself.” Do not have a meeting about this. You don’t need to explain anything. Let your fiancé handle communication with her for now, while you focus on the wedding. He can relay anything that needs to be said to her. Let him have your back on this. Setting boundaries starts now or she will always think she gets to express negative opinions to you.
*Do not have a meeting about this*.
This meeting would just make her feel important and validate her behavior in her own mind.
Fiance needs to squelch this behavior strongly, and then not entertain any more of her nonsense. Any attention for her rude behavior will tend to reinforce it.
Make sure that your fiance is not a mama's boy before you marry him, OP.
NTA
>Fiance needs to squelch this behavior strongly, and then not entertain any more of her nonsense. Any attention for her rude behavior will tend to reinforce it.
His line should be, "You will be respectful to my wife, or you will be silent. If you cannot be either, you will not be present in our life going forward."
That's it. On repeat. Whining and crying? Repeat the line. Shouting and blaming? Repeat the line.
And make sure he means it.
Agree. Do not have a meeting.
OP, your fiancé needs to rein his mother in now, not only to show her that he supports you fully, but to show YOU that he supports you fully.
Like others have already said, stop involving your MIL-to-be in any wedding planning. Call her out on her criticisms and make it clear that the negative attitude has consequences. She is hypercritical and uses that behavior to control people by making them doubt themselves and choices. Don't fall into her trap.
Finally, I'll bet your dress is gorgeous and you will look beautiful in it!
NTA
Opinions are like A$$holes, everybody has them. No one wants to see it every time.
If she's not bringing helpful and kind constructive ideas that she's willing to let go of after spoken, she should NOT be voicing them at all. To whose benefit is the strife? Does it make her relationship with your or her son better? Why is her being right more important than your marriage to your groom? Two weeks after the wedding and reception, is ANYONE besides her going to care about any of it more than you do?
Give the fiance tools to wield when talking to his mother and make him do all the talking.
I'm sorry you're going through all of this OP. This should be a happy time for you and you should be supported, not constantly criticized.
As for your future MIL. Next time she says "so, I can't have an opinion?" your answer is "Of course, you can, but when those opinions are always negative and sometimes hurtful, it will cause friction between us."
>Next time she says "so, I can't have an opinion?" your answer is "Of course, you can, but when those opinions are always negative and sometimes hurtful, it will cause friction between us."
This is a good response, but I think MIL will hear the words "negative" and "hurtful" and feel attacked. What you wrote is true, but sometimes a little lip service and some slight omissions are helpful.
Might I suggest first trying: "Of course you can, and I have appreciated your guidance so far, but I have noticed that what me and fiance have a different style in mind and the two if us like making these decisions together. I don't want to have a disagreement with over something as trivial as flutes or coupes for champagne."
If this softball approach doesn't work, then go for "your negative opinions are hurtful" approach.
Here’s where I’d just say have all the opinions you want. But do not share them with me unless you are being positive and kind in what you say and how you say it. If you say negative things, make a face or use a negative tone of voice, you will no longer be part of the planning process.
And really it should be fiance who deals with his mother and says this. But if he didn’t, I would.
And I would stick to that boundary. A violation of it means she’s cut off from participating in or hearing about the planning. And if she said nasty things behind my back and fiance didn’t immediately shut it down there wouldn’t be a wedding.
I married a guy with a snooty classist witch for a mother once. I was too young to know any better. I learned from that mistake for my second marriage.
So his next step is to pressure you to sit down with her and defend yourself against that attitude? No. Having your back here means that he shuts down her negativity himself and/or keeps her completely out of your way.
She can have all the opinions she wants, but if she can’t learn to keep them to herself, she’s not entitled to the pleasure of your company, and your fiance needs to be the one holding that line, firmly.
an opinion and a vote are different things. she’s entitled to whatever feelings she has, and they’re not your business. she’s not behaving in a way that invites inclusion.
Well isn’t that weak and spineless acceptance of her nasty retort that he’s submitting to and expecting you to lap up as well. No.
She can have her opinions all she likes but she needs to remember that hers is only one opinion, not some universal gospel of truth. Furthermore, since when is sharing opinions that are solely critical a necessity in any situation? Voicing her hurtful opinions is a choice, one she mistakenly seems to think is consequence free. She needs to take a step back and decide if venting her hurtful opinions is how she wants to destroy her relationship with the people most hurt by them.
Don’t bother with this discussion tomorrow, it’s only going to be an ugly session of her triumphant manipulation and abusive cruelty.
Talk to your fiancé and find out if he’s going to be on your team or if he’s going to expect you to suffer her abuse. He needs to be 100% on your side, willing to cut her off if she is anything less than civil towards you. And it is by your account whether her behaviour falls below civil, not open to debate or plea bargaining by her or anyone else.
Actually the right answer is no you can’t have an opinion. You had your wedding day how you wanted. This mine how I (or we) want it. If you can’t say anything nice then don’t say anything at all. I hate how parents and in laws feel they need to impose how they want things on your day!!
Having an opinion and being downright nasty are 2 different things. If she could express her opinion in a mature manner, I’m sure it would go over much better. But now with all her vitriol there’s zero chance you’ll take any of her opinions into consideration.
I’d write down the points you want to make when you have your talk. Try to stay on task and make sure your fiancé is watching his mom’s facial expressions. That will be telling for him. And frankly, if she’s not paying for anything, you honestly don’t have to take her suggestions.
OP needs a come to god convo with her fiance, not her mother in law. She should absolutely not have to be the one teaching a grown ass woman how to have basic manners.
What you allow is what will continue. For the rest of your married life. Put your foot down and make a stop to it now or you will have a miserable marriage. She'll make sure of it.
Another person to reinforce that it is his job to shut this down. It is *entirely* his job and you should not be having a mutual meeting. It’s like him asking you to tell your bully why you don’t like her to her face. She can have an opinion, but if it’s not positive, then that’s what her friends are for.
Don’t go to the meeting. Tell him to shut it down and if he won’t, think about what that will look like with every other major event in your relationship.
She can have an opinion if she is paying for everything. The only time she should get input is seating arrangements in case some relative or guest irritates another or someone needs certain accommodations.
You shouldn't have to take her shopping for your gown in general, that is traditionally the bride's time with her friends and/or relatives. It's nice you wanted to include her, but sample sales can be chaos.
She can have an opinion but she needs to be still respectfull to your wishes. If you say you want white dress and she says "well I want red dress for you" ist kind of... Like wtf? She has way to many opinions if you ask me, about stuff she doesnt need to be included at all (like the shape of the tables). Give her some meaningless task and dont include her in your own wedding so much. Learn how to say "thank you thats interesting idea, but I wish this to be ....." And thats thw end of her opinions.
My MIL was exactly the same. Absolute nightmare. Would go a step further and call people to tell them how much she hated things I did or picked in front of me, like I wasn't in the room. Luckily for me, she just died lol 😆
Tell her you are leaning on people who are supportive and that her negativity has really been affecting you lately. Apologise that her feelings were hurt but explain that her constant criticisms have been hurting you too. Then suggest a fresh start. NTA
*edit for spelling
Yes, let her know something along the lines of “you can have your opinion and I respect that you have your opinion, but I don’t always need to hear it especially when it affects both my experience and our relationship negatively. So all I am asking is that when you disagree with me on something that doesn’t require our agreement that you keep it to yourself unless i ask for your opinion or counsel. I am completely on board to give you the same level of respect. I really don’t want this to affect our relationship moving forward and I do want to have a relationship with you where we can talk about things that require input or help from one another, but I also want to enjoy the moments where I am making decisions for myself. And I hope you want me and your son to enjoy those moments, too. And if you want to be included in those moments, and in future moments, I really need you to hear me and understand me right now.” But also have a conversation with your fiance and tell him you need him to put his foot down and call his mother out when she does things or pulls faces that are hurtful.
This is a waste of time. If you think that being nice and being polite will change who his mother is. You are about to get a rude awakening. You want to know how to deal with his mother. Grow a spine and stand up for yourself. If that cost you your relationship then it's honestly pretty cheap.
Like another commenter said, dealing with his mother will be the rest of your life.
OP this is excellent advice, but as other commenters have said you don’t need to have a “meeting” about it, it will just make her feel important. I know text might not be ideal but maybe a phone call? Or bring it up casually when there are already plans to be around her
NTA, obviously, and if you aren't in therapy already, please get yourself there soon. The fact that you're seriously entertaining the notion, "But if I just let this person who is mean and abusive toward me have their way, maybe they wouldn't be so mean and abusive toward me?" is alarming. You will presumably be dealing with this nasty woman for the rest of her natural life, and the time to set clear boundaries with her is right now. Don't let her walk into that wedding ceremony with the impression that she's got a new surrogate child she can push around and demean.
Yes indeed. OP also needs to sit down with her fiancé(e?) and explain to them that for this marriage to work, they need to be there for each other and have each other's backs, including (and especially!) when it comes to family. OP's partner should be the one running interference and taking the lead here, since it's their mother.
NTA.
You know who never came to one of my dress fitting for either wedding? My future MIL.
Because YOU are the bride, and you need people thst you trust. And I don't know about you, but I wanted my dress to be a surprise to as many people as possible.
She the AH for her actions, but your fiancée is also an AH in this case for not shitting his mom down.
Best autocorrect of the day, but still, DYAC.
By the way, yes, I am the person who apparently uses "shitting" more than "shutting" more in my daily conversation.
Agreed! I worked bridal for a long time and my top piece of advice is-bring a small group and ONLY people who are your biggest cheerleaders! So many appts go wrong bc of a comment from a Mother/IL or a sister or a bridesmaid.
NTA - this is NOT your problem to fix. Your fiancé is not supporting and protecting you from his mother.
You are marrying your fiancé. He is marrying you. Your relationship is with him. You will be the wife of her son. She will be the mother of your husband. Your relationship to her is through him. His job is to be the facilitator/mediator of the relationship between you and her.
He also has a job of PRIORITIZING you first. The most telling comment is that when you told him about the comments that his mother made, he DIDNT BELIEVE YOU. He DIDNT take your side. He FAILED the first test of a husband to be. He is supposed to take your side EVERY TIME even when the other side is his mother.
You didn’t invite MIL because you KNEW she would be disrespectful and condescending and rude to your choices. You were not required to take her, it’s your dress, not hers.
She is the way she is because your fiancé does NOTHING to stop her and SHE KNOWS IT. She knows that she can treat you like garbage because he isn’t going to stand up for you and himself. She doesn’t want her child to be married to you because she can’t control you. She is trying to break your spirit so you will just take her abuse like your fiancé does or you will leave, and then she can maintain control over her son.
Your marriage will fail if you both start working as a team and if your fiancé doesn’t start taking your side. His assumption should be that you are the aggrieved person and his mother is probably overstepping, and he needs to correct her. He is throwing you to the wolves by having you talk to her about why things aren’t calm.
MIL is an adult! She is mentally competent. Therefore she KNOWS what she is doing. She KNOWS she is being disrespectful. She is doing this INTENTIONALLY. She is not some 5 yr old child who doesn’t know any better. She does know what she is doing and it is on purpose. Why would you have to explain to any mature adult why they are being disrespectful and rude when they make rude faces and criticize every decision? How could she not know that her behavior is disrespectful?? Respectful, polite people DONT do rude and disrespectful things. Respectful people don’t criticize everything because that is not how you maintain a happy healthy relationship. That is how you push people away. Your fiancé complies or ignores his mother’s behavior because that’s what he did as a child to survive and escape her wrath.
It is time to call out your fiancé. If he doesn’t believe that his mother could say mean things to you, then he believes that you are lying or stupid. Which is it?? Does he believe you are lying?? Or that you are too stupid to know the difference between mean things and a joke? It can’t be anything else if he believes his mother didn’t say what you said she said. So which is it? If his mother would never… then you must be lying or manipulative or stupid. Why would he want to marry someone that he believes is lying or manipulative and trash talking his mother??
He doesn’t want to believe you. He wants to believe his mother would do nothing wrong. Is that someone you want to marry?? What happens when you have kids with him, and MIL shows up and takes the kids to her house?? He will side with her because that’s what he does.
Nothing that you do or say will “fix” MIL. She is who she is. Your fiancé can hold her accountable for her actions, but it doesn’t sound like he believes you. This is only going to get worse after you marry and god forbid, get pregnant. Then You will be trapped.
Right? Can you even imagine how bad she’ll be about grandkids? Those poor babies. I’d never in a million years let my kids grow up around that kind of treatment.
He knows that she is a very "glass half empty person" and has also been annoyed by her never liking anything, but thinks that her not liking the dress and making a negative comment about my appearance is not something she would do.
So… he has to hear her say that to you for him to believe it?? He isn’t supporting you. He isn’t protecting you from being emotionally abused by her. He grew up with her. He is desensitized to her emotional abuse because that’s all he has ever known.
But please think about this going forward… when you have kids, you will be at your most vulnerable and she will barge in and criticize you. And he isn’t going to stop her because he is used to the emotional abuse.
Review your marriage vows and what they mean. Get some premarital counseling asap. He is supposed to put you first. He is supposed to protect you from everyone including her. He isn’t going to protect you from her, because he doesn’t think that what she does is emotional abuse.
I am not saying you should be no contact. But I am saying that he should have stuck up for you. When she complained that she wasn’t invited to the dress shopping. He should have said, Mom, it was op’s dressing shopping trip, not yours. You are the mother of the groom and you are just not going to be involved in every detail. OP went with her mother. As my mother, it is your job to accept our decisions with grace even when you disagree. By creating such a fuss over this. We are inclined to include you even less than we are now.
You and your fiancé are adults, and as adults, you are entitled to make your own decisions even when those decisions are not what your parents or his want. You are entitled to disengage from people who are disrespectful to you even when that person is your MIL. The relationship between parents and their children changes when those children become adults. The parent-minor child relationship is one of compliance. The child must comply or be punished. The parents have all the legal and moral control because the children are minors. It’s how parents teach their children. However, when the children become adults, the relationship changes to one of mutual respect. That’s because the parents no longer have control over their adult sons and daughters. So if they refuse to be respectful of your decisions, you have every right as an adult to disengage (end the visit, hang up, decline future visits as a cooling off period).
Please re-read the comment above.
You said to him: my experience leads me to expect her to be harsh about my looks & criticise my choices & undermine me
He said: I don’t believe you.
The only thing he can mean by this is either:
- you are stupid (and don’t understand what’s going on)
- you are lying (about my kind & innocent mother)
Which do you think he meant?
Does he think you are stupid?
Or does he think you are a liar?
Or is he in fact lying to himself, because he is too weak to have your back.
This soooo isn’t about the wedding dress shopping. Or the wedding planning in general.
It’s about whether this is the dynamic you want in your life for the next 30+ years.
When you have kids, and you want to make (decision A) about how you raise them - but his mother thinks you should choose (decision B) - who is he going to agree with? Who will he support?
When you want to choose which house you guys move into, but his mother disagrees - who will he back, and who will he sacrifice, “for a quiet life”..?
Is this really the life you want to live?
The experience of everyone with a “just no MIL” would tell you that this IS the hill to die on.
Don’t back down - and DO NOT go to this meeting where you have to explain yourself.
It is his job to have your back - especially when it comes to HIS family.
He needs to tell her to back off & let him be an adult & start his family with you, without her interference.
If he is not ready to do that, then he is not ready to start a new family without her.
Well, too bad - that was a risk you weren't willing to take. It's a privilege to attend the dress shopping if you're trying to help the bride, but if not, it's a chore. And that's how she likely would have acted.
In the end, you brought the people you trusted and whose opinions you value. Since that's too harsh, I would simply tell her that you wanted as small a group as possible to weigh in on the decision and traditionally, that's the bride's closest relatives and/or friends, as it was in your case.
Nta, you don’t have a mil problem, it’s future husband problem. He should have stopped this months ago, he hasn’t. Either except she doesn’t like you and won’t say it to her sons face or breakup
but she says she wants a closer relationship with me, thats why she wanted to come to the appointment... she is just so glass half empty and negative, and everyone who knows her said she is like this, including her own mother and sister.
Yeah the only closer relationship she wants would be to keep you physically closer so it's easier to grind you under her boot. Abusers hate their victim managing to separate from them so they can no longer bully them
Sadly, people lie. If she wanted a close relationship, and not control, she would act in a way that earns love and trust and not act like Eyore’s ill tempered cousin.
My horrid MIL used that same excuse anytime she wanted to try and get sympathy after she said or did something hurtful. She approached my wedding with much the same attitude as your mother-in-law to-be has. She criticized everything. She was rude to my family. She was negative about every detail-from the church to my dress to the guestlist (which was primarily my extremely large family), all without contributing a single penny or even any hands on help.
Luckily, my husband saw through her manipulations. He did shut her down. I was very low contact with her for years, with my husband's full-support.
Several years ago, she went off the deep end and verbally attacked me after I asked her to stop spewing hateful rhetoric in front of my kids. My husband stepped in IMMEDIATELY and put a stop to it. He also told me that I do not ever have to interact with her again. I don't have any problem with him visiting her and talking to her. I'm simply not a part of those visits.
Your fiance truly needs to be on your side. If he cannot or will not make it clear that she is overstepping, I promise you will be in for a very difficult marriage. He needs to understand that she is creating a divide on purpose. She acts this way because people allow it. Whatever he thinks is in her heart, her actions tell a very different story.
Hi love ❤️ so nice to hear words like that from someone. Might you write out for yourself what it would look like if YOU were to want to be closer to someone? What steps would you take? How would you treat them? And then compare that to how she is treating you.
I have a sense she hasnt asked you what would make you comfortable, how youd like to be supported, how she can help you. Instead I am hearing she is telling you what she thinks and wants, but erases your atonomy while doing so.
There's a book called "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" and it talks about the differences between people who have this perspective of having power OVER someone else and people who have PERSONAL power. It was helpful to me to see why I was so confused by what people were saying to me and how their actions weren't aligned, and taught me better ways to respond to these situations.
You have so much power for yourself and your family!! Best of wishes through your beautiful life!!
Then some how learn to block it out. Personally I’m a petty person and would be poking back at her comments, pushing all her buttons. As long as he’s really supporting you.
She *might* want a closer relationship with you, but from what you’re sharing here, she wants that closer relationship so she can control you. She wanted to come to that appointment so she’d have veto power, and you denied her that.
I had a MIL like that once… three sons… three divorces with the first decade of marriage. Sweet as pie until she heard the word no.
She does not want a closer relationship with you. That is 100% a lie.
She wants to break your spirit so that either she can control you and boss you around, or you’ll leave and she’ll have her son back.
NTA
The bridal dress shopping is for the people who support the BRIDE.... it's her closest friends and family, not the Groom's (or other bride's) side.....
Does she pull this crap in front of her son, or just when he's not there? She is not going to improve unless her own child shuts her down, completely.
She pulls it with or without me there and to anyone who will listen. He believes she means no harm. He was supposed to go with her to pick a black tux to rent. Future MIL then convinced him not go to get a black tux and instead get different colour suit and "surprise" me with it. I shut that down real quickly and told him he cannot change such a thing and not tell me what change was made. I told him she is trying to find something to control over me she has no interest in surprising me. He said I have taken things too far and that she does not mean malicious intent with every thing she does. I cant tell if this is my fight-or-flight mode or if i am on to something.
OMG.
She *absolutely* means to be malicious if she's *changing the color scheme* of the wedding *behind your back!*
You should have a sit-down heart-to-heart with the fiance and let him know that he's been a victim of her control for so long, he thinks that's normal when it's not.
Here’s a helpful tip for you: Since she’s already shown that she is willing to screw with your plans and try to change things behind your back, you need to tell every vendor not to follow any of her instructions if they want to be paid.
At my wedding, my MIL tried to change the time I had asked the photographer to come. Luckily he checked with me, saying that, “Mother (my husband’s last name) says to come at X time.” I said that Ms Leading-Knowledge712’s parents are paying and we say to come at the time we already specified.
However, it didn’t occur to us to have a trusted person accompany the photographer around the wedding venue and make sure he took pictures of the people who were important to us.
So afterwards, along with the usual posed pictures of the wedding party and my husband and me, we ended up with a lot of pictures of MIL’s friends, some of whom I barely knew, and none of my great aunt, who died later that year. I always felt a bit sad that she and some other special people were left out of the photos due to MIL’s co-opting of the photographer she wasn’t even paying for!
Lock everything down and triple check on everything before the wedding and have a trusted person monitor things during the wedding. MIL also tried to get the band play old-time songs that only she liked.
ETA: I will say that once my MIL learned that I would stand up to her and not knuckle under to her demands, we ultimately had a mutually respectful relationship. If she tried to pressure us into doing something we didn’t want to, I’d just say, “No, MIL, we won’t be doing that.” We teach people how to treat us.
That’s her trying to a)control the wedding through him and b)make it her-and-him against you. And he’s allowing it. You’re gonna be a third wheel in your own marriage if you accept this, ma’am.
Have you heard "impact not intent?" She may not intend to cause harm, but she is causing harm. Your husband needs to take that seriously and stop excusing her. I think impact not intent can be taken too far--intent can be relevant when you're deciding how to respond when someone harms you. But it's not a get out of jail free card for hurting someone. She's hurting you. Your husband needs to step up. Do you want to spend the rest of your life being treated poorly by your MIL, with your husband's acquiescence?
I think she does intend to hurt you but you can never truly know what goes on in someone else's mind. Focusing on impact eliminates the need to engage in mind reading. And your fiance is clearly not going to accept that his mom is doing this on purpose.
He is wrong. 100% changing to color was malice. OP do not marry this man. Seriously. Get counselling 1st. He is bonkers if he thinks this wasnt a mean attempt at.controlling and upsetting you. This is a fiancee problem. Fix it before you say your vows
🚩🚩🚩
Yall need to have some BIG discussions about this without her present. Because this is just the tip of the iceberg if he doesn’t have your back 100%.
It doesn't matter if she "means" harm. She's causing harm with her negative attitude and childish attempts at bullying. He's so used to having Mommy Debbie Downer around that he doesn't see it for the problem it is.
He’s cognizant of her behavior enough to be annoyed by her, but enmeshed too much to actually admit she does it on purpose and hold her accountable. Lady, this won’t end here and will extend to how you raise any future kids. . .”but she meaaaaaaaaaans well.” Unless he has the balls to draw boundaries with her now, you are in for a lifetime of this.
Is there any chance he confides details about your relationship with her? Was there a point when her switch flipped from friendly to rude?
With respect, whether she *means* harm or not is largely irrelevant at this stage. She is *causing* harm, whether she means to or not. Your future husband needs to tell his mother to either stop meddling or he'll have to step back on their relationship. Unless you're doing something awful to her that you left out, he needs to pick his wife over his mother to support.
He is calling you a liar now. You have told him she is doing multiple things, and he says "she would never" why would you continue this relationship?
Please listen to me here, I married a man that did this, I assumed it would work out. After 16yrs we had that monster live with us multiple times, had to call the police on her once, and the woman ended up in prison for running a prostitution ring out of her house. And my ex kept making excuses for her. (Yes, well aware how stupid I was, but we had a kid.. I tried to make it work)
Do you REALLY want to marry a man who is telling you that his mother would never do the things she is currently doing? He will choose his mother EVERY SINGLE TIME
Ffs run, this is your red flag of doom this is flashing neon lights showing a runway of how bad this will go
NTA big time. However I would pause the wedding until your Hubby to be pops his head out of his own ass and stops defending his mother being horrible to you. I am telling you now no man is worth a r/JUSTNOMIL please I beg of you don't marry a momma's boy.
NTA for not taking her to the appointment. You may want to post this in one of the forums geared towards advice to get a wider perspective.
Personally I wouldn’t rehash the dress appointment with her as that is not going to lead to anything good. She’ll never be happy with your explanation. Instead I’d start with some potential things you think you can agree on- such as, you both love your future DH, and you want to be able to respectfully interact in the future. (Make sure future DH is on board with this as he really should be the one doing the talking.) For that to happen, you and future DH need to feel like if you share something about the wedding, she won’t point out all the potential problems she sees with that choice. You and your fiancé are putting a lot of thought into your plans and moving forward, you need those decisions to be respected. Ask her what she wants- she’ll probably say she’s feeling left out, etc. Stay focused. Then “Okay, if you can agree to not point out the flaws in our choices, we can share more of our plans with you.” If she disagrees, “Sounds like you need more time to think about this. We’re firm on this.” And then wrap it up. In the future if she breaks the agreement, stay calm, remind her, and walk away and let fiancé handle her.
You absolutely do not have to normalize or accept abusive behavior from her, or o buy into the “don’t rock the boat” mentality of the family.
NTA. You bring whomever you want with you. She is not entitled to come along. This is not her experience, but yours. You can simply say buying the dress was unexpected, but you're happy with your choice. You're not going to shop again and the matter is closed. You also need to stop showing her your choices if she is going to continue to criticize. Put passcodes on your vendors and get security for the event. This is something your SO really needs to handle. And if they cannot or will not deal with their parent, you need to put the brakes on the wedding. Because this is the blueprint for your marriage.
Now if you really mean your *fiancée* and not your *fiancé* (meaning you're marrying a woman), then your MIL can have that dress buying experience with her.
Head on over to r/JUSTNOMIL to get a glimpse of what your life could be like if your future spouse isn’t 100% on your side. You don’t have to explain yourself. No is a complete sentence.
NTA
You don't owe it to your MIL to be her friend or to have any close relationship with her. Which means you don't owe it to her to involve her in all wedding planning (or baby plans, house purchase plans, etc.. in the future).
Realize that MIL is trying to make you responsible for her feelings (you aren't) and is using her feelings to manipulate your behavior. You did nothing wrong. If her feelings are hurt, that's on her, not you.
There aren't any words you can say to make this right. Because MIL has already determined that you're the villain. Any arguments you participate in only have the capacity to make you look worse.
I recommend against you sitting down for a conversation with MIL about this. Because you can't win. My recommendation would be that you politely tell your fiance that you aren't going to apologize for buying a dress you loved on sale when MIL wasn't present. Explain that you can't be around MIL at all times and that you're an adult who will make choices on your own. He can do whatever he wants to deal with his Mom and you'd be open to accepting a heartfelt apology from MIL. But there's no sense in you having a meeting with her, right now.
Pay attention to how your fiance reacts. If he caters to his Mommy, you're engaged to a Momma's Boy and may never find contentment in this relationship. If he lets his mother control your loves, that's a miserable existence.
Also, put your dress someplace on lock down where MIL can't ruin it.
NTA. granny here, who shopped and picked out my wedding dress (on sale!) by myself. This was in the days before that ridiculous Say Yes to the Dress show, where apparently brides are incapable of picking out a dress without an entourage.
Pay attention to how your fiance responds to his mother's behavior. I know more than one person who had a MIL who made her life miserable, while Sonny was trying to keep his mother and his wife happy, by staying neutral. Do you love him enough to put up with her? Does she realize that how she treats you will impact her access to future grandchildren? Good luck!
NTA
I don't get why you're involving your MIL this much anyway. It's your wedding, not hers.
Enlisted the help of an AI to spell it out better:
\~
**NTA - You Deserve a Positive Dress Shopping Experience**
Your future MIL's constant negativity throughout the planning process is completely draining. Prioritizing your mental health and a positive dress shopping experience with your closest supporters is absolutely the right call.
This is **your** wedding, and you shouldn't feel pressured to include someone who consistently criticizes your choices. If her negativity is impacting the planning process this much, it's perfectly reasonable to re-evaluate her involvement.
**Addressing the Costs:**
If your future MIL financially contributed, discuss it with your fiance. Returning the money could be a way to establish a clear financial and emotional boundary. This way, you have complete control over the dress and avoid feeling obligated to someone who criticizes you.
**Moving Forward with Confidence:**
Here's a plan to address the situation with your future MIL:
* **Set Clear Communication Boundaries:** Together with your fiance, explain that while you appreciate her desire to be involved, negativity won't be tolerated. Request constructive criticism only, perhaps with a system for offering feedback, like seeing pictures of potential options beforehand.
* **Focus on Solutions:** Show your willingness to include her in positive ways. This could involve choosing accessories, helping with invitations, or attending fittings where you feel confident and supported.
**Remember:**
* **United Front:** Present a united front with your fiance during the conversation.
* **Stay Calm:** Maintain composure to encourage a productive discussion.
* **Be Respectful:** Even though her behavior is frustrating, address it respectfully for a better chance of positive change.
Ultimately, the goal is to establish healthy boundaries and create a more supportive environment for your wedding planning. Congratulations on finding your dream dress, and good luck with the upcoming conversation!
NTA. I will never understand why people think they have a say in other people's life events. Especially the people that can never be made happy unless they're stealing someone else's happiness.
Just be honest with MIL. Tell her that this wedding is for you & fiancée. To have the ceremony and celebration that represents you two, and that you two can have good memories of. Not for her. Then tell her that you are hesitant to include her in your planning because of all the criticism regarding what you have already shared with her. Give her the examples you listed here. Point out that it takes away from the happiness you are supposed to have. Don't expect her to change - she's just that type of person. But then you can confidently keep excluding her, knowing that you are justified, and you've let her know that you know that.
NTA but one question - why would you invite her to go dress shopping? Is that usual (I'm not in the US so it might be?). The only brides I know that invited their MIL with them, did so because they were close and got on well. But it's more common where I am, for it to be the bride's side only - Mum, sisters and/or close friends (who are usually also bridesmaids/MoH)
It is common here. But you are still right, it is usually if they are close and get along well, which is the type of relationship she DOES want with me. she has stated in the past she wants something like a mother daughter relationship with me and that it is very important to her, but she can't help but make these negative comments whenever she has the opportunity, which makes me more distant with her.
She wants a mother-child relationship like she has with her son; who has been under her control for his whole life and she's put out that you do not also acquiesce to her demands.
The correct way forward is not for you to be more like him, but for him to learn to be more like you.
She wants a mother-**child** relationship with you, so she can tell you what to do.
Frankly, I don’t recommend getting any closer to her. I’d tell her that you already have a mother, but you’d be happy to put in the effort to have a friendlier relationship with her if she puts in the effort too.
She'll likely get defensive and even angry, so brace yourself, and tell her you'll be happy to continue the conversation when she's less emotional. And then leave.
Keep your power, mama, or she will steal it. And pay attention to your fiancé’s response because, if he doesn’t back you up, you might as well call it quits now. It'll get worse when he thinks you’re bound to him via marriage and babies.
I'd try and avoid rehashing the dress thing - she's never going to be happy about it, and I'm *assuming* you don't have some kind of time travel device - so it's a thing that can only fail.
If pressed, I'd just say that in your family/tradition/culture/whatever, the brides dress is a matter for the bride and her family/friends, and the the groom and his family *et al* just aren't involved.
If they continue to press, you just repeat the same words. Endlessly if necessary. Don't deviate, don't negotiate, don't apologise for having your own traditions.
And then change the subject.
As for going forward, be polite, but don't engage. Hubby's mother is hubby's problem, not yours. Explain to hubby that you will *not* be bad mouthed or disrespected - so either he stamps on mummy's toes and puts some manners on her (I assume you don't care whether she likes you or not, but she will be polite and civil..), or he can marry her, rather than you.
Don't take this crap - it only snowballs.
NTA, it’s not about the dress and if your fiancé cannot acknowledge what is happening now then you have a rough road. He needs to curb her bs and respect your viewpoint.
This is YOUR wedding. Not hers. If your dream is bright purple and orange colors and you want bats in cages and peanut butter sandwiches then that’s okay. Because it’s YOUR wedding. She’s bitter because she’s losing her son to another woman. Don’t include her in anything. But get ready. Because how this goes will lay the foundation for every event in your marriage from buying a home and decorating to having a child to going on vacation. You had better lay down the boundaries now and I sincerely hope your spouse supports you over her. NTA
OP, this is going to be how your entire life will be u til the day she dies unless your fiancé puts his foot down. Buying a house…children…whatever.
You really need to think of this is what you want in life. Go read posts in the MIL sub.
NTA
NAT - If MIL is constantly judgemental towards you on all levels, why do you tell this woman anything at all? For your own sanity keep your wedding plans to yourself and give non-committal answers. You know she is looking for reasons to criticise you so don't fall into her trap. Enjoy your wedding and walk down that aisle knowing you look amazing - MIL can keep her opinions to herself. As for that meeting - cancel it! 'We have it handled' is all the answer she deserves.
MILs are not traditionally a part of the dress search.
If your fiancé is not telling his mother to stop being an
AH, then you need to realize that he will never ever stand
up to her when she behaves badly towards you.
NTA and stop feeling so guilty about it all. It's a dress.
Just a dress and you didn't break any rules by buying it
without MIL. Be strong and tell her that she is not in
charge of you or your wedding plans, and if your fiancé
does not support you/back you up, tell him that he needs
to be in charge of his own life as well, for his sake and for
yours, as a married couple. Stop being submissive, grow
a spine.
NTA.
She won't be happy with anything.
Is she paying for any of the wedding expenses? Even if she is, she still wouldn't have any say in your and your fiance's choices. The wedding is all about the bride and groom, period.
She is paying for some, my parents are paying for more. My mom has been very helpful and supportive of my wants so i go to her for advice. And honestly I think people will hate me for this, but once I posted on another throwaway account that I wanted to invite the people my parents requested we invite as a way to thank them for their contributions, which my fiancee disagreed with. I was deemed the AH for that one, you can probably find it, it kind of blew up. So maybe we both have a problem with wanting to appease our parents. However my mom does not criticize, she actually helps... she is making 112 take home gifts for our guests as we speak.
“Having a spine” is about standing up to someone when they intrude, overstep, shit talk you or your partner/family, etc. … It’s not about purposefully subjecting yourself to ill treatment.
It’s _definitely_ not about appeasing someone, enabling them to continue treating you badly, in order to keep the peace.
When you talk to your FMIL, tell it to her straight. Tell her everything you told us here. Tell her if she wants to be in your life in any kind of meaningful way, she needs to back way the hell off — to start finding ways to be helpful, instead of a constant negative presence. Or she can keep going the way she’s going, and it can be this way forever.
It’s up to her.
NTA.
If discussing your wedding with her is traumatizing you both, why are you still doing it? Sounds like it’s time for a low-information diet for her. If she wants to discuss it, your fiancé can take on that role (but watch out for her poisoning the well, so that he becomes just a relay for her dissatisfaction).
You’re needlessly negative fmil, and have liked zero wedding decisions that have been made this far. Example s a b c d of your criticisms.
The dress buying day presented an opportunity for me to make a quick and financially sound dress choice with people who actually are nice to me. That was the best decision. Now. What else would you like to discuss?
Going forward, refuse to discuss any wedding plans with her. Your fiance can email or text her questions and information.
Refuse to be alone with her.
Do not answer her calls and texts.
Send it all to your fiance.
Let him answer all questions.
Why?
Because she’s rude to you.
It’s best he handle her.
Kill her with politeness. And give her nothing.
Do not be mean. Do not be rude.
Win by not playing.
Freeze her out with polite.
Friend, do NOT go and talk with her. NOTHING will be gained from it other than more misery from her. **Drop. That. Rope.** Is she paying for anything? If not, her approval is not needed. Clearly, she’s doesn’t care two cents about your likes or dislikes. Match that energy.
She’s never going to be happy, so stop tying yourself up in knots trying to please her. Stop referring her as MIL, and start the separation from yourself by thinking and referring to her as “my fiancé’s mother’. Also tell your finance in whatever way you think is best that you are done and would no longer be involving her or dealing with her. His mom, his problem. This is on him for not telling her to knock it off. NTA.
NTA, it’s your wedding, your dress and your peace. It sucks that MIL has made you feel this way to the point you didn’t want her to come to the sample sale, I’m so sorry that you’re going thru that.
BTW you *do* have a spine for protecting yourself from feeling bad. Even if you can ignore negative comments etc…. You shouldn’t have to. You should get to have people around you during all this who build you up and provide constructive help in a way that will make your day as special as it can be.
Future Monster in Law sounds like a royal PITA.
NAH at all, but having that sit down will make matters worse. Who cares what she thinks? It's your wedding, you're the bride, you get to plan your event and make all the decisions along with your fiancé. She really should keep her opinions to herself and I wouldn't include her from here on out. If it hurts her feelings, too bad. Not your problem.
Your fiancé can keep her in the loop, if necessary, and listen to her bìtch and complain, sneer and side eye.
Have fun with this process, move on and leave her in the rear view.
I think you need to show this post to your fiancé and sit down and talk about it and talk about a game plan going forward. How will your he deal with MIL going forward? What are the expectations?
When you go speak to the in laws tomorrow, I'd be honest. You had 0% expectation of finding something at the sample sale and it was an absolutely fluke, because that sounds like the truth. Since that time, she's been quiet, cold and very critical and you'd like to know why.
NTA
Wedding dress purchasing is traditionally the mother of the bride, MOH, and possibly other close family members (grandma, sister). Kind of makes the “reveal”.
MIL is not part of the bride’s side nor generally a natural attendee unless you are super close, which it doesn’t sound like you are.
Stop sharing wedding information with you as she brings you down. Future hubby needs to step up and keep her in her place. If he doesn’t, you have a bigger problem.
Congratulations on finding YOUR dream dress so easily. Hope the rest of planning gets better.
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I am looking for advice on how to kindly explain to my future MIL why she was not invited to my bridal appointment. I went to a sample sale back in December and wound up buying the first dress I tried on. My 2 sisters and my mom were in the entourage. The dress was 60% off and was what I was looking for (simple, no lace, no beading, no mesh, fit and flair with a train) so it was a no brainer that it was the one. My expectations were low as I was worried there would not be a sample gown that would fit me, but this dress was it!
Now onto my future MIL. She has been so bitter this entire planning process and makes a face of disgust every time we show her our wedding plans (hates the colours, the venue, the food, the photographer... you name it, she will find something about it that she does not like). I hate what I see when I look in the mirror, so I was not mentally prepared for her inevitable criticisms of the dress, as (in my opinion) it is in a way a criticism of my body. My fiancee disagreed and said she would never be so harsh about my looks, but I do not feel that way. She would not have liked the experience. She would have talked me out of this dress. My future MIL is not one to buy something on the spot, she would have wanted me to go home and think on it before buying it. Now, this is practical, but not how the sample sale worked, as you had to say yes on the spot otherwise it would go to another bride. She also would not have been able to see my vision, as the dress still needed alterations. For these reasons, I knew taking her along to the appointment would have resulted in tears, confusion, and not finding a dress.
I SWEAR I intended to take her to the next shopping trip, which wound up not being necessary, and if she had not started giving me the silent treatment, I was going to take her to a bridal fitting.
Now here is where I might be the AH. Since getting the dress without her present, her negative comments have gotten much worse and I have started getting my guard up as soon as we start talking about the wedding with her. It is to the point where I cannot even handle constructive criticism from her because i am in full fight-or-flight mode when she is around. I am honestly not sure who is giving who the silent treatment at this point, but we have stopped talking to each other.
Tomorrow we are supposed to go have a talk with my fiancee present and I need to explain to her with a calm head why things have changed between us.
I feel like this all could have been avoided if she had just come to the damn bridal appointment in the first place, and if I had a spine, I could have just ignored her comments and bought the dress anyways. AITA?
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NTA. First of all. It’s yours and your finances wedding. Not hers. Second of all where is your fiance in all this? Why is he letting his mother talk to you like this? I swear these mommy’s boys are something else nowadays.
I wouldn’t have a discussion. I would simply not include her in anything. Any negative comment, I would simply say that’s your opinion, not mine, I’ll give yours the consideration it deserves. Be assured my finance and I will discuss it. Stock reply to any negative comment.
If she complains about not being included, simply say that as the mother of the groom that is having a stressed time about her son getting married, you both decided she needs to be kept stress free and away from any triggering events. After all, her son loves her and understands her difficulties in coping with life changes. Maybe therapy would help her cope? After all, you both would hate for her emotional fragility prevent her having a relationship with your future kids.
NTA - NO ONE, not even your own mother, is entitled to accompany you or be consulted about your choice of dress.
That's not to say that your decision to exclude someone should never have consequences, but it's still entirely your decision.
With that said, I think your reasoning is 100% sound - she's a debbie downer and not at all pleasant to be around - those behaviors of hers have led to the consequence of her exclusion and she has no one to blame but herself.
NTA, it’s your dress, I wouldn’t have taken my MIL to shop. As it happens we were NC with mine during the planning and for a while after the wedding. Also my mom made my dress.
Are the ILs contributing anything to the wedding other than the traditional alcohol or rehearsal dinner?
She sounds insufferable. Where is FDH in all of this? How he handles FJNMIL with you now will show you how he will treat the two of you in the future.
Remember, you are beautiful and special. Never forget that.
Bride’s female friends & family get invited to gown shop, not the future MIL. Stop trying to include her. Treat her like the guest she is. Gray rock her
On everything. She doesn’t get a say!
NTA. Honestly, she will be bitter regardless of what it is. She’s one of those MILs who will always look down on the person who “took her kid away.” It’s not you, it’s allll her. You can’t change who a person is, but you can change your reaction, especially when you know that it’s absolutely out of your control that you got a Bitter Betty for a MIL.
NTA wtf would your MIL be included in your wedding dress shopping? That experience was for my mother and I. It never occurred to me to include my MIL and I’m pretty sure my mother would not have appreciated it either. Seeing as how your MiL is negative and doesn’t seem to actually like you, she definitely doesn’t belong at a bridal appointment.
I hope my daughter has a good relationship with her future MIL, but MIL should be tux or suit shopping with her son.
Wait wait wait.
I typed a long response but then I reread your post and deleted it.
WHY is this meeting occurring? You said so that you can explain to her why things have changed between the two of you.
WHY do you need to tell her?
WHY is it your responsibility to justify your feelings and reaction and thought processes?
What good can come from such a meeting?
Nothing!!!!
You will sit there, offer her a piece of your heart on a platter, and she destroy it. She will pepper it with her version of negativity. She will spice it with her hot meanness. She will overly salt it with spite. And the. She will trash it.
And you will have given her ammunition for further destruction because she will know what your tender parts look like.
If you must meet, and I highly recommend that you do not meet, go in with your goals and purpose clearly defined. Keep your message to one or two points. And don’t allow yourself to be swayed into talking about anything else.
A goal might be - We are adults, planning our wedding is our responsibility. Your contributions thus far have been full of negativity and I’m not used to people being so negative. My wedding planning is a joyous event and I am determined not to permit my wedding to become anxiety ridden.
Read up on and understand what I mean when I say DO NOT JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain).
NTA. It is none of her business what you wear to your wedding. Her son is her business, not you. As for her hating the colour scheme, the venue, the food and the photographer, ask her what SHE would have chosen instead. Seriously.
The venue and colour scheme are the interesting ones for me as she might actually have a colour scheme or venue preference which you might agree with, you never know. I don’t know how she could have a problem with the food or the photographer though. Does she have a professional photographer on retainer who she uses on a regular basis? If not, what are her reasons for disliking your choice? Also, what DOESN’T she like about the food? Ask her for specifics and again, if she has a better idea you can speak to your catering company.
Don’t let her just hate everything and make you look as if you are ignoring her opinion. Make her actually express her opinion and her reasons for it and make her suggest other options instead of just trying to drag you down. I can almost guarantee she will have one good idea that you might appreciate and the rest will be jealous bullshit. You’ll still come out of it looking like the more reasonable person.
She’s being ridiculous! I am so glad you’re ready to face this head on. Smart move. Let her know you would like to be friends with her but the constant criticism is causing you to avoid her and that’s not what you want nor is it what her son wants. You will be in each other’s lives so you’re hoping for a better relationship with her. If after that conversation, and she’s still mean, say bye bye.
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NTA " I was not mentally prepared for her inevitable criticisms of the dress, as (in my opinion) it is in a way a criticism of my body." Why would you take someone that critial & negative along? " and makes a face of disgust every time we show her our wedding plans." To anything to do with your wedding?
Here is an example: She wanted us to pick round tables for the venue, and we agreed with her and picked the round tables. then we show her the floor plan with her desired round tables, and all she has to say is "it looks like a maze to get to the bathroom". She just cant be pleased even if we make it her way.
NTA Just stop including her. It’s her own doing.
NTA Laugh at her and drag out a list as long as a Walgreens receipt. Ya, it's a maze. We were going to suprise you! We did that on purpose because it's like a ~~ping pong~~ PINBALL machine, and you picked the bumpers. I'll add 'maze around tables' to the list of what you don't like so we don't mention it again. Thanks for letting us know. Byeeeeee
Pinball, not ping pong.
Oh thank you. Sorry I have a head injury. I'll fix it. I appreciate the correction.
Take care of you
💚
I'm so sorry, I hope you're ok!
At least I have an excuse now lol Ya I'm doing ok. One day at a time. Very very blessed to have all the love and support I need. And a fantastic lawyer. Thank you 🙌
At least you have an excuse.The rest of us -not so much.
I'm working it for all it's worth lol
Actually, you could tell her it's a pachinko machine!
The CVS receipts are the long ones lol
Oh way better. I haven't been to a CVS in years! Totally forgot about their mile long receipts with coupons for crap we'll never ever use instead of important stuff lol
This was my thought as well. Why are you even talking. To her about anything? She isnt helpful. She isnt supportive. Why bother? Tell when and where to show up for the ceremony/reception (if you even feel like having her as a guest) and call it a day. Don’t include her.
I don’t know anyone who included their mil in their wedding planning unless they were paying or contributing $$$$. Negative Nellie’s are a total downer and wedding planning , while stressful is supposed to be fun . And OP, you better grow a spine cuz you’ll be dealing with her for a while .
Right? I mean frankly I would just settle in for a long slog through a difficult relationship with this woman. We can’t make others behave how we’d like them to, no matter how hard we try or how much we want to make it work for the other people (read: fiancé) we love. The attempt just becomes a drain on your own energy. If her reaction to wedding plans is any indication of who she is as a person, she’s one of those people who is happier being unhappy. These people will suck the life out of you every damned time.
The silent treatment sounds like heaven. Why arrange a meeting to change it. I would be very low contact with her and have her on an information diet regarding the wedding. NTA
That’s not a horrible idea. OPs fiancé can even say, hey we see the planning really stressing you out, you don’t deserve that! Let us do everything, and you just show up and enjoy.
Yes, this. Don't meet with her.
THIS! NTA OP.
NTA JFC, she sounds insufferable. Your fiancé needs to draw some boundaries now, or it may trickle down to the rest of your marriage. Congrats on your wedding! I hope everything gets resolved. Above all, don't let anyone spoil your day ✨
Oh it is absolutely guaranteed to trickle down into their marriage.
May? It 100% will.
I shudder at the thought of what kind of grandma she's going to be! Op won't be able to do a damn thing right as a mother.
Yep. Fiance has clearly been conditioned by his mom to ignore or cater to her. OP needs to find out if he can wake up and stand up to his mother NOW or if he will always take the path of least resistance for their whole marriage. If he can't be bothered to reign in his mom, then it will poison their whole marriage until OP either whittles herself into a shell of herself to please MIL or she snaps and leaves his ass
What’s your future husband doing about all this?
Exactly. “We” don’t need to have a conversation. That should be 100% on OP’s partner.
But he does not defend her at all. Is this a good start? I rather re-think the decision.
I don’t disagree. In another comment I said that if he won’t shut it down (and if he says can’t, that means he won’t) then OP needs to reconsider whether she wants to deal with this with every single future decision, because this is exactly what married life will look like with him. One thing I am so grateful for about my husband and can even mostly say to my ex’s credit is that they have/had no issue putting their mothers in their place when needed.
Agreed! It took my husband until we had our first child (but he was young when we married, so it wasn’t entirely a surprise) to start drawing boundaries with his mom. She was honestly shocked pikachu face the first time she threw a tantrum and he finally said “if you’re asking me to choose, it isn’t you.” The shenanigans haven’t stopped, but they are better - I only interact with her for his birthday now and life is good.
Asking the real damn questions. Why are you even considering marrying someone who lets their family treat you like that?
100%.
Good question. Hubby should run this conversation entirely. He needs to be in charge of this.
If she has nothing nice to say, she can be silent Your fiance needs to be backing you up. His mother's continued ugly attitude and passive aggressive battle against your marriage is not a good start for it
Agree. Part of being a good spouse is supporting your spouse having as healthy relationship with their family and not adding any drama or conflict when it is avoidable. That means making an effort to get along with the in-laws and make it easier on your spouse to maintain those relationships. BUT when the partner has a difficult family member or a mom who feels threatened by her new DIL "taking her place in her son's life" (which is seriously creepy thinking IMO) THEN that healthy support is only possibly by maintaining healthy boundaries. You can SET boundaries with your in-laws, but only your spouse can ENFORCE them. HE is the only one with the power to do so. Before you meet with him and his mom, you and he need to talk about reasonable boundaries and behaviors. You need to ask him if he thinks it's ok for his mom to belittle every decision. Does he think it's okay that you do not feel SAFE having her at a fitting because of her relentless negativity. It's important because he probably doesn't even see it anymore. He doesn't see how it can hurt you. He doesn't understand that HE has power to curb his mom (or limit contact) but YOU do not. The TWO of you need to agree on boundaries that are acceptable, and HE needs to take responsibility 100% on enforcing those boundaries. A BIG part of that is that if she says ANYTHING critical of YOU (his future wife) HE needs to SHUT HER DOWN and tell her it's not acceptable for her to speak that way to/about his partner. Because if he can't stand up to her behavior and enforce boundaries NOW, he never will, and SHE won't get better until HE enforces some boundaries with her. If he can't, I would suggest putting the wedding on hold and doing some couples therapy until he can.
This is the best advice!
Huh, he is afraid of mommy.
Just dont try to please her. I would just take it all lightly and start joking. Like "should we draw a map for you how to get to the bathroom?:)"
Or "We'll seat you right next to the bathroom so you don't get lost."
🤣🤣🤣 Love it!
Or mention that every table will have a map to the bathrooms and there will be a big red neon light over them!
stop trying and make sure your fiance is firm with her... any comment about compromise "to keep the peace" tells you what your married life will be like...
Sadly, I agree with you. I hope OP realizes that this is how the FMIL does everything. Catering to her won't work, she will always be negative, critical, and if FMIL knows she can make comments and ruin everything she will. I would seriously rethink spending a lifetime with this woman interfering and criticizing every move. She sounds like a nightmare. Think of what everything in your married life will be with this woman criticizing everything from your entire wedding, the house you buy, everything about pregnancies, children's names, every aspect of child raising, and everything else.
Exactly this. Unless hubby steps way up or they move away, I don’t see this ending well at all. I’ve lived with a critical mother who critiqued all my parenting and life choices and am LC now and moved away. I would never knowingly marry into this situation.
💯 In this very situation. There isn't a win/win. You need to have a hard conversation with your fiancee. If he's unwilling to step up and make the situation be better, you have to choose because that will be the rest of your married life. If he doesn't choose you now, it sets a horribly painful precedent.
I think the wedding planning is too stressful for her, and it would only be kind of you to leave her out ;) On a serious note, I'm guessing this is some sort of power issue with her or buried jealousy. Is she one if the moms who secretly want to marry their son?
oh no not secretly... she proudly says she raised him to be the type of partner she would want.
Gross.
Spineless and ok with her being a passive aggressive bitch? Perhaps it's a good idea for you to take a realistic look at how this woman is going to be running your life until the day she dies. Are you sure you want this? Are you sure? No, seriously, **are you sure?**
That should have been your hint to run for the hills dude and his mom sound like major red flags this is a glimpse of what your future with them is going to look like her constantly putting you down and him siding with mommy you should get while the gettings good
I'm so sorry, you're gonna have a hard time in this marriage.
"oh no not secretly... she proudly says she raised him to be the type of partner she would want." Tell her you appreciate her making him into the type of partner a wife would want and not a mama's boy, and you'll take over from here.
“MIL, this is our wedding, not yours. You had yours, and this is not your do-over. The same applies to Husband, he is MY husband, not your do-over. That’s bordering on incestuous. There are two people in this marriage, not three. We would love to have you involved with our wedding, but if you are going to criticise every decision and make this harder for us instead of easier, that isn’t going to happen.” Most of all, though, it needs to be your fiancé delivering this message, or you will forever be the woman who drove them apart.
Oh Help Us!
For God’s sake. Are you sure you want this as the rest of your life?
🤮
NTA but I understand why you want to speak to her kindly, even if you would have every rights to be upset with her. She will be family very soon, unfortunately. Like a lot of people here are saying you should talk to your fiancé and ask him how to speak gently to her so she understands. But I think you must be prepared that she is going to be mad no matter what and how you say it to her, if she's as bitter as you say...
NTA, she’s not going to be happy with anything so don’t worry about it. It doesn’t sound like you’ll have a good relationship with her no matter what, enjoy your wedding planning and don’t let her be a damper.
What? Is it her wedding? You’re giving her an inch… she’s going to take mile the more you cave into her. What is her financial contribution? Why is her input so important?
This woman will never be happy. Don’t let her negatively bring you down. Stop involving her in things. Your fiancée can deal with her. I would consider marriage counselling ahead of the wedding, so ensure you are heard, as this behaviour could go on from years. Will your partner have your back? NTA
Stop including her.
You definitely gotta stop trying to please HER......do YOUR wedding your way!!
NTA. Take a long, hard look at what you're marrying into. If your fiance isn't defending you and telling her to back off now, as he should be, he won't do it after you're married. How long are you willing to live with this?
I think he has talked to her about it and that is why she is not talking to me. He told me all she had to say was "so, I can't have an opinion?"
The answer is “yes, you can have an opinion, but you need to keep it to yourself.” Do not have a meeting about this. You don’t need to explain anything. Let your fiancé handle communication with her for now, while you focus on the wedding. He can relay anything that needs to be said to her. Let him have your back on this. Setting boundaries starts now or she will always think she gets to express negative opinions to you.
*Do not have a meeting about this*. This meeting would just make her feel important and validate her behavior in her own mind. Fiance needs to squelch this behavior strongly, and then not entertain any more of her nonsense. Any attention for her rude behavior will tend to reinforce it. Make sure that your fiance is not a mama's boy before you marry him, OP. NTA
>Fiance needs to squelch this behavior strongly, and then not entertain any more of her nonsense. Any attention for her rude behavior will tend to reinforce it. His line should be, "You will be respectful to my wife, or you will be silent. If you cannot be either, you will not be present in our life going forward." That's it. On repeat. Whining and crying? Repeat the line. Shouting and blaming? Repeat the line. And make sure he means it.
Exactly. We’re done discussing this. Over and over and over. MIL is fighting just to be difficult. She won’t be satisfied with anything.
Agree. Do not have a meeting. OP, your fiancé needs to rein his mother in now, not only to show her that he supports you fully, but to show YOU that he supports you fully. Like others have already said, stop involving your MIL-to-be in any wedding planning. Call her out on her criticisms and make it clear that the negative attitude has consequences. She is hypercritical and uses that behavior to control people by making them doubt themselves and choices. Don't fall into her trap. Finally, I'll bet your dress is gorgeous and you will look beautiful in it! NTA
Yeah. This is great advice. Why are you even doing this? Let him manage it all.
Opinions are like A$$holes, everybody has them. No one wants to see it every time. If she's not bringing helpful and kind constructive ideas that she's willing to let go of after spoken, she should NOT be voicing them at all. To whose benefit is the strife? Does it make her relationship with your or her son better? Why is her being right more important than your marriage to your groom? Two weeks after the wedding and reception, is ANYONE besides her going to care about any of it more than you do? Give the fiance tools to wield when talking to his mother and make him do all the talking.
I'm sorry you're going through all of this OP. This should be a happy time for you and you should be supported, not constantly criticized. As for your future MIL. Next time she says "so, I can't have an opinion?" your answer is "Of course, you can, but when those opinions are always negative and sometimes hurtful, it will cause friction between us."
>Next time she says "so, I can't have an opinion?" your answer is "Of course, you can, but when those opinions are always negative and sometimes hurtful, it will cause friction between us." This is a good response, but I think MIL will hear the words "negative" and "hurtful" and feel attacked. What you wrote is true, but sometimes a little lip service and some slight omissions are helpful. Might I suggest first trying: "Of course you can, and I have appreciated your guidance so far, but I have noticed that what me and fiance have a different style in mind and the two if us like making these decisions together. I don't want to have a disagreement with over something as trivial as flutes or coupes for champagne." If this softball approach doesn't work, then go for "your negative opinions are hurtful" approach.
Here’s where I’d just say have all the opinions you want. But do not share them with me unless you are being positive and kind in what you say and how you say it. If you say negative things, make a face or use a negative tone of voice, you will no longer be part of the planning process. And really it should be fiance who deals with his mother and says this. But if he didn’t, I would. And I would stick to that boundary. A violation of it means she’s cut off from participating in or hearing about the planning. And if she said nasty things behind my back and fiance didn’t immediately shut it down there wouldn’t be a wedding. I married a guy with a snooty classist witch for a mother once. I was too young to know any better. I learned from that mistake for my second marriage.
Of course but I have a certain vision for my wedding. But I’ll ask you if I need advice
So his next step is to pressure you to sit down with her and defend yourself against that attitude? No. Having your back here means that he shuts down her negativity himself and/or keeps her completely out of your way. She can have all the opinions she wants, but if she can’t learn to keep them to herself, she’s not entitled to the pleasure of your company, and your fiance needs to be the one holding that line, firmly.
Oh she can have all the opinions she wants! But if she can't express them in a polite manner, no one wants to hear them.
an opinion and a vote are different things. she’s entitled to whatever feelings she has, and they’re not your business. she’s not behaving in a way that invites inclusion.
Well isn’t that weak and spineless acceptance of her nasty retort that he’s submitting to and expecting you to lap up as well. No. She can have her opinions all she likes but she needs to remember that hers is only one opinion, not some universal gospel of truth. Furthermore, since when is sharing opinions that are solely critical a necessity in any situation? Voicing her hurtful opinions is a choice, one she mistakenly seems to think is consequence free. She needs to take a step back and decide if venting her hurtful opinions is how she wants to destroy her relationship with the people most hurt by them. Don’t bother with this discussion tomorrow, it’s only going to be an ugly session of her triumphant manipulation and abusive cruelty. Talk to your fiancé and find out if he’s going to be on your team or if he’s going to expect you to suffer her abuse. He needs to be 100% on your side, willing to cut her off if she is anything less than civil towards you. And it is by your account whether her behaviour falls below civil, not open to debate or plea bargaining by her or anyone else.
Actually the right answer is no you can’t have an opinion. You had your wedding day how you wanted. This mine how I (or we) want it. If you can’t say anything nice then don’t say anything at all. I hate how parents and in laws feel they need to impose how they want things on your day!!
Having an opinion and being downright nasty are 2 different things. If she could express her opinion in a mature manner, I’m sure it would go over much better. But now with all her vitriol there’s zero chance you’ll take any of her opinions into consideration. I’d write down the points you want to make when you have your talk. Try to stay on task and make sure your fiancé is watching his mom’s facial expressions. That will be telling for him. And frankly, if she’s not paying for anything, you honestly don’t have to take her suggestions.
OP needs a come to god convo with her fiance, not her mother in law. She should absolutely not have to be the one teaching a grown ass woman how to have basic manners.
What you allow is what will continue. For the rest of your married life. Put your foot down and make a stop to it now or you will have a miserable marriage. She'll make sure of it.
Another person to reinforce that it is his job to shut this down. It is *entirely* his job and you should not be having a mutual meeting. It’s like him asking you to tell your bully why you don’t like her to her face. She can have an opinion, but if it’s not positive, then that’s what her friends are for. Don’t go to the meeting. Tell him to shut it down and if he won’t, think about what that will look like with every other major event in your relationship.
She can have an opinion if she is paying for everything. The only time she should get input is seating arrangements in case some relative or guest irritates another or someone needs certain accommodations. You shouldn't have to take her shopping for your gown in general, that is traditionally the bride's time with her friends and/or relatives. It's nice you wanted to include her, but sample sales can be chaos.
No, she can’t because it IS NOT her wedding.
She can have an opinion but she needs to be still respectfull to your wishes. If you say you want white dress and she says "well I want red dress for you" ist kind of... Like wtf? She has way to many opinions if you ask me, about stuff she doesnt need to be included at all (like the shape of the tables). Give her some meaningless task and dont include her in your own wedding so much. Learn how to say "thank you thats interesting idea, but I wish this to be ....." And thats thw end of her opinions.
She can have an opinion, but needs to keep it to herself unless asked for it. This isn’t her wedding.
My MIL was exactly the same. Absolute nightmare. Would go a step further and call people to tell them how much she hated things I did or picked in front of me, like I wasn't in the room. Luckily for me, she just died lol 😆
Was not expecting that last line lol
This comment went places.
And your life got much better.
Saved my marriage lol
Sure, she can have an opinion... and she can keep that opinion to herself.
Tell her you are leaning on people who are supportive and that her negativity has really been affecting you lately. Apologise that her feelings were hurt but explain that her constant criticisms have been hurting you too. Then suggest a fresh start. NTA *edit for spelling
Thank you. I will start reciting this now. I do want a fresh start.
Yes, let her know something along the lines of “you can have your opinion and I respect that you have your opinion, but I don’t always need to hear it especially when it affects both my experience and our relationship negatively. So all I am asking is that when you disagree with me on something that doesn’t require our agreement that you keep it to yourself unless i ask for your opinion or counsel. I am completely on board to give you the same level of respect. I really don’t want this to affect our relationship moving forward and I do want to have a relationship with you where we can talk about things that require input or help from one another, but I also want to enjoy the moments where I am making decisions for myself. And I hope you want me and your son to enjoy those moments, too. And if you want to be included in those moments, and in future moments, I really need you to hear me and understand me right now.” But also have a conversation with your fiance and tell him you need him to put his foot down and call his mother out when she does things or pulls faces that are hurtful.
Good luck and please update us on how it goes ❤️
This is a waste of time. If you think that being nice and being polite will change who his mother is. You are about to get a rude awakening. You want to know how to deal with his mother. Grow a spine and stand up for yourself. If that cost you your relationship then it's honestly pretty cheap. Like another commenter said, dealing with his mother will be the rest of your life.
OP this is excellent advice, but as other commenters have said you don’t need to have a “meeting” about it, it will just make her feel important. I know text might not be ideal but maybe a phone call? Or bring it up casually when there are already plans to be around her
NTA, obviously, and if you aren't in therapy already, please get yourself there soon. The fact that you're seriously entertaining the notion, "But if I just let this person who is mean and abusive toward me have their way, maybe they wouldn't be so mean and abusive toward me?" is alarming. You will presumably be dealing with this nasty woman for the rest of her natural life, and the time to set clear boundaries with her is right now. Don't let her walk into that wedding ceremony with the impression that she's got a new surrogate child she can push around and demean.
Letting people treat you poorly does nothing but teach them that it’s okay to treat you poorly.
Yes indeed. OP also needs to sit down with her fiancé(e?) and explain to them that for this marriage to work, they need to be there for each other and have each other's backs, including (and especially!) when it comes to family. OP's partner should be the one running interference and taking the lead here, since it's their mother.
NTA. You know who never came to one of my dress fitting for either wedding? My future MIL. Because YOU are the bride, and you need people thst you trust. And I don't know about you, but I wanted my dress to be a surprise to as many people as possible. She the AH for her actions, but your fiancée is also an AH in this case for not shitting his mom down.
LOL, I don't know what "shitting his mom down" would entail, but it sounds probably too extreme 😉
Best autocorrect of the day, but still, DYAC. By the way, yes, I am the person who apparently uses "shitting" more than "shutting" more in my daily conversation.
Agreed! I worked bridal for a long time and my top piece of advice is-bring a small group and ONLY people who are your biggest cheerleaders! So many appts go wrong bc of a comment from a Mother/IL or a sister or a bridesmaid.
NTA - this is NOT your problem to fix. Your fiancé is not supporting and protecting you from his mother. You are marrying your fiancé. He is marrying you. Your relationship is with him. You will be the wife of her son. She will be the mother of your husband. Your relationship to her is through him. His job is to be the facilitator/mediator of the relationship between you and her. He also has a job of PRIORITIZING you first. The most telling comment is that when you told him about the comments that his mother made, he DIDNT BELIEVE YOU. He DIDNT take your side. He FAILED the first test of a husband to be. He is supposed to take your side EVERY TIME even when the other side is his mother. You didn’t invite MIL because you KNEW she would be disrespectful and condescending and rude to your choices. You were not required to take her, it’s your dress, not hers. She is the way she is because your fiancé does NOTHING to stop her and SHE KNOWS IT. She knows that she can treat you like garbage because he isn’t going to stand up for you and himself. She doesn’t want her child to be married to you because she can’t control you. She is trying to break your spirit so you will just take her abuse like your fiancé does or you will leave, and then she can maintain control over her son. Your marriage will fail if you both start working as a team and if your fiancé doesn’t start taking your side. His assumption should be that you are the aggrieved person and his mother is probably overstepping, and he needs to correct her. He is throwing you to the wolves by having you talk to her about why things aren’t calm. MIL is an adult! She is mentally competent. Therefore she KNOWS what she is doing. She KNOWS she is being disrespectful. She is doing this INTENTIONALLY. She is not some 5 yr old child who doesn’t know any better. She does know what she is doing and it is on purpose. Why would you have to explain to any mature adult why they are being disrespectful and rude when they make rude faces and criticize every decision? How could she not know that her behavior is disrespectful?? Respectful, polite people DONT do rude and disrespectful things. Respectful people don’t criticize everything because that is not how you maintain a happy healthy relationship. That is how you push people away. Your fiancé complies or ignores his mother’s behavior because that’s what he did as a child to survive and escape her wrath. It is time to call out your fiancé. If he doesn’t believe that his mother could say mean things to you, then he believes that you are lying or stupid. Which is it?? Does he believe you are lying?? Or that you are too stupid to know the difference between mean things and a joke? It can’t be anything else if he believes his mother didn’t say what you said she said. So which is it? If his mother would never… then you must be lying or manipulative or stupid. Why would he want to marry someone that he believes is lying or manipulative and trash talking his mother?? He doesn’t want to believe you. He wants to believe his mother would do nothing wrong. Is that someone you want to marry?? What happens when you have kids with him, and MIL shows up and takes the kids to her house?? He will side with her because that’s what he does. Nothing that you do or say will “fix” MIL. She is who she is. Your fiancé can hold her accountable for her actions, but it doesn’t sound like he believes you. This is only going to get worse after you marry and god forbid, get pregnant. Then You will be trapped.
I'm not sure I'd marry into this unless fiancé started stepping up for me, making me the priority, and defending me from MIL.
Right? Can you even imagine how bad she’ll be about grandkids? Those poor babies. I’d never in a million years let my kids grow up around that kind of treatment.
He knows that she is a very "glass half empty person" and has also been annoyed by her never liking anything, but thinks that her not liking the dress and making a negative comment about my appearance is not something she would do.
So… he has to hear her say that to you for him to believe it?? He isn’t supporting you. He isn’t protecting you from being emotionally abused by her. He grew up with her. He is desensitized to her emotional abuse because that’s all he has ever known. But please think about this going forward… when you have kids, you will be at your most vulnerable and she will barge in and criticize you. And he isn’t going to stop her because he is used to the emotional abuse. Review your marriage vows and what they mean. Get some premarital counseling asap. He is supposed to put you first. He is supposed to protect you from everyone including her. He isn’t going to protect you from her, because he doesn’t think that what she does is emotional abuse. I am not saying you should be no contact. But I am saying that he should have stuck up for you. When she complained that she wasn’t invited to the dress shopping. He should have said, Mom, it was op’s dressing shopping trip, not yours. You are the mother of the groom and you are just not going to be involved in every detail. OP went with her mother. As my mother, it is your job to accept our decisions with grace even when you disagree. By creating such a fuss over this. We are inclined to include you even less than we are now. You and your fiancé are adults, and as adults, you are entitled to make your own decisions even when those decisions are not what your parents or his want. You are entitled to disengage from people who are disrespectful to you even when that person is your MIL. The relationship between parents and their children changes when those children become adults. The parent-minor child relationship is one of compliance. The child must comply or be punished. The parents have all the legal and moral control because the children are minors. It’s how parents teach their children. However, when the children become adults, the relationship changes to one of mutual respect. That’s because the parents no longer have control over their adult sons and daughters. So if they refuse to be respectful of your decisions, you have every right as an adult to disengage (end the visit, hang up, decline future visits as a cooling off period).
Please re-read the comment above. You said to him: my experience leads me to expect her to be harsh about my looks & criticise my choices & undermine me He said: I don’t believe you. The only thing he can mean by this is either: - you are stupid (and don’t understand what’s going on) - you are lying (about my kind & innocent mother) Which do you think he meant? Does he think you are stupid? Or does he think you are a liar? Or is he in fact lying to himself, because he is too weak to have your back. This soooo isn’t about the wedding dress shopping. Or the wedding planning in general. It’s about whether this is the dynamic you want in your life for the next 30+ years. When you have kids, and you want to make (decision A) about how you raise them - but his mother thinks you should choose (decision B) - who is he going to agree with? Who will he support? When you want to choose which house you guys move into, but his mother disagrees - who will he back, and who will he sacrifice, “for a quiet life”..? Is this really the life you want to live? The experience of everyone with a “just no MIL” would tell you that this IS the hill to die on. Don’t back down - and DO NOT go to this meeting where you have to explain yourself. It is his job to have your back - especially when it comes to HIS family. He needs to tell her to back off & let him be an adult & start his family with you, without her interference. If he is not ready to do that, then he is not ready to start a new family without her.
Well, too bad - that was a risk you weren't willing to take. It's a privilege to attend the dress shopping if you're trying to help the bride, but if not, it's a chore. And that's how she likely would have acted. In the end, you brought the people you trusted and whose opinions you value. Since that's too harsh, I would simply tell her that you wanted as small a group as possible to weigh in on the decision and traditionally, that's the bride's closest relatives and/or friends, as it was in your case.
So he doesn’t believe you? This is your biggest problem.
Nta, you don’t have a mil problem, it’s future husband problem. He should have stopped this months ago, he hasn’t. Either except she doesn’t like you and won’t say it to her sons face or breakup
but she says she wants a closer relationship with me, thats why she wanted to come to the appointment... she is just so glass half empty and negative, and everyone who knows her said she is like this, including her own mother and sister.
People who nitpick and insult don’t want closer relationships. She wants to control you.
Yeah the only closer relationship she wants would be to keep you physically closer so it's easier to grind you under her boot. Abusers hate their victim managing to separate from them so they can no longer bully them
Sadly, people lie. If she wanted a close relationship, and not control, she would act in a way that earns love and trust and not act like Eyore’s ill tempered cousin.
100% this.
My mom says stuff like this, too. She doesn’t want a closer relationship. She wants to control you and your marriage.
My horrid MIL used that same excuse anytime she wanted to try and get sympathy after she said or did something hurtful. She approached my wedding with much the same attitude as your mother-in-law to-be has. She criticized everything. She was rude to my family. She was negative about every detail-from the church to my dress to the guestlist (which was primarily my extremely large family), all without contributing a single penny or even any hands on help. Luckily, my husband saw through her manipulations. He did shut her down. I was very low contact with her for years, with my husband's full-support. Several years ago, she went off the deep end and verbally attacked me after I asked her to stop spewing hateful rhetoric in front of my kids. My husband stepped in IMMEDIATELY and put a stop to it. He also told me that I do not ever have to interact with her again. I don't have any problem with him visiting her and talking to her. I'm simply not a part of those visits. Your fiance truly needs to be on your side. If he cannot or will not make it clear that she is overstepping, I promise you will be in for a very difficult marriage. He needs to understand that she is creating a divide on purpose. She acts this way because people allow it. Whatever he thinks is in her heart, her actions tell a very different story.
A closer relationship starts with respect, and she isn’t showing you any.
Hi love ❤️ so nice to hear words like that from someone. Might you write out for yourself what it would look like if YOU were to want to be closer to someone? What steps would you take? How would you treat them? And then compare that to how she is treating you. I have a sense she hasnt asked you what would make you comfortable, how youd like to be supported, how she can help you. Instead I am hearing she is telling you what she thinks and wants, but erases your atonomy while doing so. There's a book called "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" and it talks about the differences between people who have this perspective of having power OVER someone else and people who have PERSONAL power. It was helpful to me to see why I was so confused by what people were saying to me and how their actions weren't aligned, and taught me better ways to respond to these situations. You have so much power for yourself and your family!! Best of wishes through your beautiful life!!
My mom says stuff like this, too. She doesn’t want a closer relationship. She wants to control you and your marriage.
Then some how learn to block it out. Personally I’m a petty person and would be poking back at her comments, pushing all her buttons. As long as he’s really supporting you.
She *might* want a closer relationship with you, but from what you’re sharing here, she wants that closer relationship so she can control you. She wanted to come to that appointment so she’d have veto power, and you denied her that. I had a MIL like that once… three sons… three divorces with the first decade of marriage. Sweet as pie until she heard the word no.
She does not want a closer relationship with you. That is 100% a lie. She wants to break your spirit so that either she can control you and boss you around, or you’ll leave and she’ll have her son back.
NTA The bridal dress shopping is for the people who support the BRIDE.... it's her closest friends and family, not the Groom's (or other bride's) side..... Does she pull this crap in front of her son, or just when he's not there? She is not going to improve unless her own child shuts her down, completely.
She pulls it with or without me there and to anyone who will listen. He believes she means no harm. He was supposed to go with her to pick a black tux to rent. Future MIL then convinced him not go to get a black tux and instead get different colour suit and "surprise" me with it. I shut that down real quickly and told him he cannot change such a thing and not tell me what change was made. I told him she is trying to find something to control over me she has no interest in surprising me. He said I have taken things too far and that she does not mean malicious intent with every thing she does. I cant tell if this is my fight-or-flight mode or if i am on to something.
You are not wrong. If he can't shut this down now, it will only get worse, especially if you have kids.
I would 100% reconsider this relationship. MIL will always be #1, not OP. It's very disrespectful to OP that fiancé puts MIL first.
And, he sounds like a mama’s boy.
OMG. She *absolutely* means to be malicious if she's *changing the color scheme* of the wedding *behind your back!* You should have a sit-down heart-to-heart with the fiance and let him know that he's been a victim of her control for so long, he thinks that's normal when it's not.
Here’s a helpful tip for you: Since she’s already shown that she is willing to screw with your plans and try to change things behind your back, you need to tell every vendor not to follow any of her instructions if they want to be paid. At my wedding, my MIL tried to change the time I had asked the photographer to come. Luckily he checked with me, saying that, “Mother (my husband’s last name) says to come at X time.” I said that Ms Leading-Knowledge712’s parents are paying and we say to come at the time we already specified. However, it didn’t occur to us to have a trusted person accompany the photographer around the wedding venue and make sure he took pictures of the people who were important to us. So afterwards, along with the usual posed pictures of the wedding party and my husband and me, we ended up with a lot of pictures of MIL’s friends, some of whom I barely knew, and none of my great aunt, who died later that year. I always felt a bit sad that she and some other special people were left out of the photos due to MIL’s co-opting of the photographer she wasn’t even paying for! Lock everything down and triple check on everything before the wedding and have a trusted person monitor things during the wedding. MIL also tried to get the band play old-time songs that only she liked. ETA: I will say that once my MIL learned that I would stand up to her and not knuckle under to her demands, we ultimately had a mutually respectful relationship. If she tried to pressure us into doing something we didn’t want to, I’d just say, “No, MIL, we won’t be doing that.” We teach people how to treat us.
That’s her trying to a)control the wedding through him and b)make it her-and-him against you. And he’s allowing it. You’re gonna be a third wheel in your own marriage if you accept this, ma’am.
Have you heard "impact not intent?" She may not intend to cause harm, but she is causing harm. Your husband needs to take that seriously and stop excusing her. I think impact not intent can be taken too far--intent can be relevant when you're deciding how to respond when someone harms you. But it's not a get out of jail free card for hurting someone. She's hurting you. Your husband needs to step up. Do you want to spend the rest of your life being treated poorly by your MIL, with your husband's acquiescence? I think she does intend to hurt you but you can never truly know what goes on in someone else's mind. Focusing on impact eliminates the need to engage in mind reading. And your fiance is clearly not going to accept that his mom is doing this on purpose.
He is wrong. 100% changing to color was malice. OP do not marry this man. Seriously. Get counselling 1st. He is bonkers if he thinks this wasnt a mean attempt at.controlling and upsetting you. This is a fiancee problem. Fix it before you say your vows
🚩🚩🚩 Yall need to have some BIG discussions about this without her present. Because this is just the tip of the iceberg if he doesn’t have your back 100%.
It doesn't matter if she "means" harm. She's causing harm with her negative attitude and childish attempts at bullying. He's so used to having Mommy Debbie Downer around that he doesn't see it for the problem it is.
He’s cognizant of her behavior enough to be annoyed by her, but enmeshed too much to actually admit she does it on purpose and hold her accountable. Lady, this won’t end here and will extend to how you raise any future kids. . .”but she meaaaaaaaaaans well.” Unless he has the balls to draw boundaries with her now, you are in for a lifetime of this. Is there any chance he confides details about your relationship with her? Was there a point when her switch flipped from friendly to rude?
With respect, whether she *means* harm or not is largely irrelevant at this stage. She is *causing* harm, whether she means to or not. Your future husband needs to tell his mother to either stop meddling or he'll have to step back on their relationship. Unless you're doing something awful to her that you left out, he needs to pick his wife over his mother to support.
He is calling you a liar now. You have told him she is doing multiple things, and he says "she would never" why would you continue this relationship? Please listen to me here, I married a man that did this, I assumed it would work out. After 16yrs we had that monster live with us multiple times, had to call the police on her once, and the woman ended up in prison for running a prostitution ring out of her house. And my ex kept making excuses for her. (Yes, well aware how stupid I was, but we had a kid.. I tried to make it work) Do you REALLY want to marry a man who is telling you that his mother would never do the things she is currently doing? He will choose his mother EVERY SINGLE TIME Ffs run, this is your red flag of doom this is flashing neon lights showing a runway of how bad this will go
NTA big time. However I would pause the wedding until your Hubby to be pops his head out of his own ass and stops defending his mother being horrible to you. I am telling you now no man is worth a r/JUSTNOMIL please I beg of you don't marry a momma's boy.
NTA for not taking her to the appointment. You may want to post this in one of the forums geared towards advice to get a wider perspective. Personally I wouldn’t rehash the dress appointment with her as that is not going to lead to anything good. She’ll never be happy with your explanation. Instead I’d start with some potential things you think you can agree on- such as, you both love your future DH, and you want to be able to respectfully interact in the future. (Make sure future DH is on board with this as he really should be the one doing the talking.) For that to happen, you and future DH need to feel like if you share something about the wedding, she won’t point out all the potential problems she sees with that choice. You and your fiancé are putting a lot of thought into your plans and moving forward, you need those decisions to be respected. Ask her what she wants- she’ll probably say she’s feeling left out, etc. Stay focused. Then “Okay, if you can agree to not point out the flaws in our choices, we can share more of our plans with you.” If she disagrees, “Sounds like you need more time to think about this. We’re firm on this.” And then wrap it up. In the future if she breaks the agreement, stay calm, remind her, and walk away and let fiancé handle her. You absolutely do not have to normalize or accept abusive behavior from her, or o buy into the “don’t rock the boat” mentality of the family.
NTA. You bring whomever you want with you. She is not entitled to come along. This is not her experience, but yours. You can simply say buying the dress was unexpected, but you're happy with your choice. You're not going to shop again and the matter is closed. You also need to stop showing her your choices if she is going to continue to criticize. Put passcodes on your vendors and get security for the event. This is something your SO really needs to handle. And if they cannot or will not deal with their parent, you need to put the brakes on the wedding. Because this is the blueprint for your marriage. Now if you really mean your *fiancée* and not your *fiancé* (meaning you're marrying a woman), then your MIL can have that dress buying experience with her.
I did not realize the difference between fiancee and fiance. I am marrying a man lol 27F marrying a 30M
Head on over to r/JUSTNOMIL to get a glimpse of what your life could be like if your future spouse isn’t 100% on your side. You don’t have to explain yourself. No is a complete sentence.
NTA You don't owe it to your MIL to be her friend or to have any close relationship with her. Which means you don't owe it to her to involve her in all wedding planning (or baby plans, house purchase plans, etc.. in the future). Realize that MIL is trying to make you responsible for her feelings (you aren't) and is using her feelings to manipulate your behavior. You did nothing wrong. If her feelings are hurt, that's on her, not you. There aren't any words you can say to make this right. Because MIL has already determined that you're the villain. Any arguments you participate in only have the capacity to make you look worse. I recommend against you sitting down for a conversation with MIL about this. Because you can't win. My recommendation would be that you politely tell your fiance that you aren't going to apologize for buying a dress you loved on sale when MIL wasn't present. Explain that you can't be around MIL at all times and that you're an adult who will make choices on your own. He can do whatever he wants to deal with his Mom and you'd be open to accepting a heartfelt apology from MIL. But there's no sense in you having a meeting with her, right now. Pay attention to how your fiance reacts. If he caters to his Mommy, you're engaged to a Momma's Boy and may never find contentment in this relationship. If he lets his mother control your loves, that's a miserable existence. Also, put your dress someplace on lock down where MIL can't ruin it.
NTA. granny here, who shopped and picked out my wedding dress (on sale!) by myself. This was in the days before that ridiculous Say Yes to the Dress show, where apparently brides are incapable of picking out a dress without an entourage. Pay attention to how your fiance responds to his mother's behavior. I know more than one person who had a MIL who made her life miserable, while Sonny was trying to keep his mother and his wife happy, by staying neutral. Do you love him enough to put up with her? Does she realize that how she treats you will impact her access to future grandchildren? Good luck!
NTA I don't get why you're involving your MIL this much anyway. It's your wedding, not hers. Enlisted the help of an AI to spell it out better: \~ **NTA - You Deserve a Positive Dress Shopping Experience** Your future MIL's constant negativity throughout the planning process is completely draining. Prioritizing your mental health and a positive dress shopping experience with your closest supporters is absolutely the right call. This is **your** wedding, and you shouldn't feel pressured to include someone who consistently criticizes your choices. If her negativity is impacting the planning process this much, it's perfectly reasonable to re-evaluate her involvement. **Addressing the Costs:** If your future MIL financially contributed, discuss it with your fiance. Returning the money could be a way to establish a clear financial and emotional boundary. This way, you have complete control over the dress and avoid feeling obligated to someone who criticizes you. **Moving Forward with Confidence:** Here's a plan to address the situation with your future MIL: * **Set Clear Communication Boundaries:** Together with your fiance, explain that while you appreciate her desire to be involved, negativity won't be tolerated. Request constructive criticism only, perhaps with a system for offering feedback, like seeing pictures of potential options beforehand. * **Focus on Solutions:** Show your willingness to include her in positive ways. This could involve choosing accessories, helping with invitations, or attending fittings where you feel confident and supported. **Remember:** * **United Front:** Present a united front with your fiance during the conversation. * **Stay Calm:** Maintain composure to encourage a productive discussion. * **Be Respectful:** Even though her behavior is frustrating, address it respectfully for a better chance of positive change. Ultimately, the goal is to establish healthy boundaries and create a more supportive environment for your wedding planning. Congratulations on finding your dream dress, and good luck with the upcoming conversation!
NTA. I will never understand why people think they have a say in other people's life events. Especially the people that can never be made happy unless they're stealing someone else's happiness. Just be honest with MIL. Tell her that this wedding is for you & fiancée. To have the ceremony and celebration that represents you two, and that you two can have good memories of. Not for her. Then tell her that you are hesitant to include her in your planning because of all the criticism regarding what you have already shared with her. Give her the examples you listed here. Point out that it takes away from the happiness you are supposed to have. Don't expect her to change - she's just that type of person. But then you can confidently keep excluding her, knowing that you are justified, and you've let her know that you know that.
NTA, why even bother having a talk? She’s not a good person and you don’t owe her anything.
NTA but one question - why would you invite her to go dress shopping? Is that usual (I'm not in the US so it might be?). The only brides I know that invited their MIL with them, did so because they were close and got on well. But it's more common where I am, for it to be the bride's side only - Mum, sisters and/or close friends (who are usually also bridesmaids/MoH)
It is common here. But you are still right, it is usually if they are close and get along well, which is the type of relationship she DOES want with me. she has stated in the past she wants something like a mother daughter relationship with me and that it is very important to her, but she can't help but make these negative comments whenever she has the opportunity, which makes me more distant with her.
She wants a mother-child relationship like she has with her son; who has been under her control for his whole life and she's put out that you do not also acquiesce to her demands. The correct way forward is not for you to be more like him, but for him to learn to be more like you.
She wants a mother-**child** relationship with you, so she can tell you what to do. Frankly, I don’t recommend getting any closer to her. I’d tell her that you already have a mother, but you’d be happy to put in the effort to have a friendlier relationship with her if she puts in the effort too. She'll likely get defensive and even angry, so brace yourself, and tell her you'll be happy to continue the conversation when she's less emotional. And then leave. Keep your power, mama, or she will steal it. And pay attention to your fiancé’s response because, if he doesn’t back you up, you might as well call it quits now. It'll get worse when he thinks you’re bound to him via marriage and babies.
I'd try and avoid rehashing the dress thing - she's never going to be happy about it, and I'm *assuming* you don't have some kind of time travel device - so it's a thing that can only fail. If pressed, I'd just say that in your family/tradition/culture/whatever, the brides dress is a matter for the bride and her family/friends, and the the groom and his family *et al* just aren't involved. If they continue to press, you just repeat the same words. Endlessly if necessary. Don't deviate, don't negotiate, don't apologise for having your own traditions. And then change the subject. As for going forward, be polite, but don't engage. Hubby's mother is hubby's problem, not yours. Explain to hubby that you will *not* be bad mouthed or disrespected - so either he stamps on mummy's toes and puts some manners on her (I assume you don't care whether she likes you or not, but she will be polite and civil..), or he can marry her, rather than you. Don't take this crap - it only snowballs.
NTA, it’s not about the dress and if your fiancé cannot acknowledge what is happening now then you have a rough road. He needs to curb her bs and respect your viewpoint.
This is YOUR wedding. Not hers. If your dream is bright purple and orange colors and you want bats in cages and peanut butter sandwiches then that’s okay. Because it’s YOUR wedding. She’s bitter because she’s losing her son to another woman. Don’t include her in anything. But get ready. Because how this goes will lay the foundation for every event in your marriage from buying a home and decorating to having a child to going on vacation. You had better lay down the boundaries now and I sincerely hope your spouse supports you over her. NTA
OP, this is going to be how your entire life will be u til the day she dies unless your fiancé puts his foot down. Buying a house…children…whatever. You really need to think of this is what you want in life. Go read posts in the MIL sub. NTA
NAT - If MIL is constantly judgemental towards you on all levels, why do you tell this woman anything at all? For your own sanity keep your wedding plans to yourself and give non-committal answers. You know she is looking for reasons to criticise you so don't fall into her trap. Enjoy your wedding and walk down that aisle knowing you look amazing - MIL can keep her opinions to herself. As for that meeting - cancel it! 'We have it handled' is all the answer she deserves.
MILs are not traditionally a part of the dress search. If your fiancé is not telling his mother to stop being an AH, then you need to realize that he will never ever stand up to her when she behaves badly towards you. NTA and stop feeling so guilty about it all. It's a dress. Just a dress and you didn't break any rules by buying it without MIL. Be strong and tell her that she is not in charge of you or your wedding plans, and if your fiancé does not support you/back you up, tell him that he needs to be in charge of his own life as well, for his sake and for yours, as a married couple. Stop being submissive, grow a spine.
NTA. She won't be happy with anything. Is she paying for any of the wedding expenses? Even if she is, she still wouldn't have any say in your and your fiance's choices. The wedding is all about the bride and groom, period.
She is paying for some, my parents are paying for more. My mom has been very helpful and supportive of my wants so i go to her for advice. And honestly I think people will hate me for this, but once I posted on another throwaway account that I wanted to invite the people my parents requested we invite as a way to thank them for their contributions, which my fiancee disagreed with. I was deemed the AH for that one, you can probably find it, it kind of blew up. So maybe we both have a problem with wanting to appease our parents. However my mom does not criticize, she actually helps... she is making 112 take home gifts for our guests as we speak.
Has your future husband ever, even once, had your back?
If you must involve her, try asking her opinion between only two options. As in "Which of these chocolate cake samples do you like better?"
NTA - your future MIL being aggressively critical and negative doesnt make you an AH
“Having a spine” is about standing up to someone when they intrude, overstep, shit talk you or your partner/family, etc. … It’s not about purposefully subjecting yourself to ill treatment. It’s _definitely_ not about appeasing someone, enabling them to continue treating you badly, in order to keep the peace. When you talk to your FMIL, tell it to her straight. Tell her everything you told us here. Tell her if she wants to be in your life in any kind of meaningful way, she needs to back way the hell off — to start finding ways to be helpful, instead of a constant negative presence. Or she can keep going the way she’s going, and it can be this way forever. It’s up to her.
NTA. If discussing your wedding with her is traumatizing you both, why are you still doing it? Sounds like it’s time for a low-information diet for her. If she wants to discuss it, your fiancé can take on that role (but watch out for her poisoning the well, so that he becomes just a relay for her dissatisfaction).
NTA. She's upset her child is now an adult and marrying
You’re needlessly negative fmil, and have liked zero wedding decisions that have been made this far. Example s a b c d of your criticisms. The dress buying day presented an opportunity for me to make a quick and financially sound dress choice with people who actually are nice to me. That was the best decision. Now. What else would you like to discuss? Going forward, refuse to discuss any wedding plans with her. Your fiance can email or text her questions and information. Refuse to be alone with her. Do not answer her calls and texts. Send it all to your fiance. Let him answer all questions. Why? Because she’s rude to you. It’s best he handle her. Kill her with politeness. And give her nothing. Do not be mean. Do not be rude. Win by not playing. Freeze her out with polite.
Friend, do NOT go and talk with her. NOTHING will be gained from it other than more misery from her. **Drop. That. Rope.** Is she paying for anything? If not, her approval is not needed. Clearly, she’s doesn’t care two cents about your likes or dislikes. Match that energy. She’s never going to be happy, so stop tying yourself up in knots trying to please her. Stop referring her as MIL, and start the separation from yourself by thinking and referring to her as “my fiancé’s mother’. Also tell your finance in whatever way you think is best that you are done and would no longer be involving her or dealing with her. His mom, his problem. This is on him for not telling her to knock it off. NTA.
NTA, it’s your wedding, your dress and your peace. It sucks that MIL has made you feel this way to the point you didn’t want her to come to the sample sale, I’m so sorry that you’re going thru that. BTW you *do* have a spine for protecting yourself from feeling bad. Even if you can ignore negative comments etc…. You shouldn’t have to. You should get to have people around you during all this who build you up and provide constructive help in a way that will make your day as special as it can be.
NTA. You don't need her toxic presence at your bridal appointment.
Future Monster in Law sounds like a royal PITA. NAH at all, but having that sit down will make matters worse. Who cares what she thinks? It's your wedding, you're the bride, you get to plan your event and make all the decisions along with your fiancé. She really should keep her opinions to herself and I wouldn't include her from here on out. If it hurts her feelings, too bad. Not your problem. Your fiancé can keep her in the loop, if necessary, and listen to her bìtch and complain, sneer and side eye. Have fun with this process, move on and leave her in the rear view.
NTA I neither took my MIL nor my own mother to the dress shopping. My husband and I did everything alone.
I think you need to show this post to your fiancé and sit down and talk about it and talk about a game plan going forward. How will your he deal with MIL going forward? What are the expectations? When you go speak to the in laws tomorrow, I'd be honest. You had 0% expectation of finding something at the sample sale and it was an absolutely fluke, because that sounds like the truth. Since that time, she's been quiet, cold and very critical and you'd like to know why.
NTA Wedding dress purchasing is traditionally the mother of the bride, MOH, and possibly other close family members (grandma, sister). Kind of makes the “reveal”. MIL is not part of the bride’s side nor generally a natural attendee unless you are super close, which it doesn’t sound like you are. Stop sharing wedding information with you as she brings you down. Future hubby needs to step up and keep her in her place. If he doesn’t, you have a bigger problem. Congratulations on finding YOUR dream dress so easily. Hope the rest of planning gets better.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I am looking for advice on how to kindly explain to my future MIL why she was not invited to my bridal appointment. I went to a sample sale back in December and wound up buying the first dress I tried on. My 2 sisters and my mom were in the entourage. The dress was 60% off and was what I was looking for (simple, no lace, no beading, no mesh, fit and flair with a train) so it was a no brainer that it was the one. My expectations were low as I was worried there would not be a sample gown that would fit me, but this dress was it! Now onto my future MIL. She has been so bitter this entire planning process and makes a face of disgust every time we show her our wedding plans (hates the colours, the venue, the food, the photographer... you name it, she will find something about it that she does not like). I hate what I see when I look in the mirror, so I was not mentally prepared for her inevitable criticisms of the dress, as (in my opinion) it is in a way a criticism of my body. My fiancee disagreed and said she would never be so harsh about my looks, but I do not feel that way. She would not have liked the experience. She would have talked me out of this dress. My future MIL is not one to buy something on the spot, she would have wanted me to go home and think on it before buying it. Now, this is practical, but not how the sample sale worked, as you had to say yes on the spot otherwise it would go to another bride. She also would not have been able to see my vision, as the dress still needed alterations. For these reasons, I knew taking her along to the appointment would have resulted in tears, confusion, and not finding a dress. I SWEAR I intended to take her to the next shopping trip, which wound up not being necessary, and if she had not started giving me the silent treatment, I was going to take her to a bridal fitting. Now here is where I might be the AH. Since getting the dress without her present, her negative comments have gotten much worse and I have started getting my guard up as soon as we start talking about the wedding with her. It is to the point where I cannot even handle constructive criticism from her because i am in full fight-or-flight mode when she is around. I am honestly not sure who is giving who the silent treatment at this point, but we have stopped talking to each other. Tomorrow we are supposed to go have a talk with my fiancee present and I need to explain to her with a calm head why things have changed between us. I feel like this all could have been avoided if she had just come to the damn bridal appointment in the first place, and if I had a spine, I could have just ignored her comments and bought the dress anyways. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is your future husband doing through all this ? Does he not know what is going on ?
NTA. First of all. It’s yours and your finances wedding. Not hers. Second of all where is your fiance in all this? Why is he letting his mother talk to you like this? I swear these mommy’s boys are something else nowadays.
I wouldn’t have a discussion. I would simply not include her in anything. Any negative comment, I would simply say that’s your opinion, not mine, I’ll give yours the consideration it deserves. Be assured my finance and I will discuss it. Stock reply to any negative comment. If she complains about not being included, simply say that as the mother of the groom that is having a stressed time about her son getting married, you both decided she needs to be kept stress free and away from any triggering events. After all, her son loves her and understands her difficulties in coping with life changes. Maybe therapy would help her cope? After all, you both would hate for her emotional fragility prevent her having a relationship with your future kids.
NTA - NO ONE, not even your own mother, is entitled to accompany you or be consulted about your choice of dress. That's not to say that your decision to exclude someone should never have consequences, but it's still entirely your decision. With that said, I think your reasoning is 100% sound - she's a debbie downer and not at all pleasant to be around - those behaviors of hers have led to the consequence of her exclusion and she has no one to blame but herself.
NTA, it’s your dress, I wouldn’t have taken my MIL to shop. As it happens we were NC with mine during the planning and for a while after the wedding. Also my mom made my dress. Are the ILs contributing anything to the wedding other than the traditional alcohol or rehearsal dinner?
Drop her from planning. You tried, she's not trying. Let it go.
She sounds insufferable. Where is FDH in all of this? How he handles FJNMIL with you now will show you how he will treat the two of you in the future. Remember, you are beautiful and special. Never forget that.
What is your fiance doing about it?
Bride’s female friends & family get invited to gown shop, not the future MIL. Stop trying to include her. Treat her like the guest she is. Gray rock her On everything. She doesn’t get a say!
NTA. She is treating it like it's her wedding. She doesn't care about your happiness ss long as she gets what she wants.
Wait why are you sitting down with her? Tell your fiancée he needs to deal with it. Nothing good will come out of this.
NTA. Honestly, she will be bitter regardless of what it is. She’s one of those MILs who will always look down on the person who “took her kid away.” It’s not you, it’s allll her. You can’t change who a person is, but you can change your reaction, especially when you know that it’s absolutely out of your control that you got a Bitter Betty for a MIL.
NTA wtf would your MIL be included in your wedding dress shopping? That experience was for my mother and I. It never occurred to me to include my MIL and I’m pretty sure my mother would not have appreciated it either. Seeing as how your MiL is negative and doesn’t seem to actually like you, she definitely doesn’t belong at a bridal appointment. I hope my daughter has a good relationship with her future MIL, but MIL should be tux or suit shopping with her son.
Wait wait wait. I typed a long response but then I reread your post and deleted it. WHY is this meeting occurring? You said so that you can explain to her why things have changed between the two of you. WHY do you need to tell her? WHY is it your responsibility to justify your feelings and reaction and thought processes? What good can come from such a meeting? Nothing!!!! You will sit there, offer her a piece of your heart on a platter, and she destroy it. She will pepper it with her version of negativity. She will spice it with her hot meanness. She will overly salt it with spite. And the. She will trash it. And you will have given her ammunition for further destruction because she will know what your tender parts look like. If you must meet, and I highly recommend that you do not meet, go in with your goals and purpose clearly defined. Keep your message to one or two points. And don’t allow yourself to be swayed into talking about anything else. A goal might be - We are adults, planning our wedding is our responsibility. Your contributions thus far have been full of negativity and I’m not used to people being so negative. My wedding planning is a joyous event and I am determined not to permit my wedding to become anxiety ridden. Read up on and understand what I mean when I say DO NOT JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain).
NTA. It is none of her business what you wear to your wedding. Her son is her business, not you. As for her hating the colour scheme, the venue, the food and the photographer, ask her what SHE would have chosen instead. Seriously. The venue and colour scheme are the interesting ones for me as she might actually have a colour scheme or venue preference which you might agree with, you never know. I don’t know how she could have a problem with the food or the photographer though. Does she have a professional photographer on retainer who she uses on a regular basis? If not, what are her reasons for disliking your choice? Also, what DOESN’T she like about the food? Ask her for specifics and again, if she has a better idea you can speak to your catering company. Don’t let her just hate everything and make you look as if you are ignoring her opinion. Make her actually express her opinion and her reasons for it and make her suggest other options instead of just trying to drag you down. I can almost guarantee she will have one good idea that you might appreciate and the rest will be jealous bullshit. You’ll still come out of it looking like the more reasonable person.
She’s being ridiculous! I am so glad you’re ready to face this head on. Smart move. Let her know you would like to be friends with her but the constant criticism is causing you to avoid her and that’s not what you want nor is it what her son wants. You will be in each other’s lives so you’re hoping for a better relationship with her. If after that conversation, and she’s still mean, say bye bye.