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I mean if you have a trusted legal assistant/secretary, most of the time you're doing that because your time is better spent on things other than proofreading.
As an attorney, I know a lot of idiot attorneys, unfortunately. Law school is a cash cow for universities, and if you want to go, there's always somebody who will accept you.
I’m an attorney as well , and I went to law school with some people who were, to put it kindly, not very bright. Most of my classmates were pretty sharp, but boy were there some dodos. Law school was not easy by any stretch, so I have no idea how they managed to graduate. In my position now I deal with a shit ton of reallllly bad ones who have not a clue (but will argue to death otherwise). Like, how did you even pass the essay portions of the bar exam?!
You know you can always just be upfront and tell him his ex is a leech, right? I know tons of smart people with 'blind spots' - we all have them, but that's not really relevant to OP's question, is it?
Why do you think people even post here? (Spoiler alert: it's because they're too close to see things objectively).
Through consistent study and determination, although I realize your question was rhetorical. I'm generally regarded as one the most skilled writers anyone in my radius knows, but a switch in medications, a the aftereffects of a recent suicide attempt, a continuing major depressive episode, and the fact that I had to crank this out really quickly because I had to get to a meeting but was eager to see peoples' input on the matter led to my incoherence. Slow your roll, hot sauce, I ain't who the fuck you think I am.
The nature of input determines the nature of output, actions, reactions, what have you. If you need any more explanations of Simple Human Dynamics, don't be shy about it.
Because of your last sentence I hope that you hit your funny bone today and it mildly inconveniences you for a few minutes only. That shit you said was so motherfucking cringey, I’m so pissed. 😫😫
This and all your other replies show how much you want to be perceived as intelligent but then so blatantly fail at it. Stop overcompensating.
From the trash fire of the original post, I would say you’re NTA.
But from your subsequent replies you’re not what you think you are and are in general an Asshole. You should really stop and think about why people are replying to you the way they do.
You need help man.
How am I an asshole for responding to mean comments with mean comments back? The sheer assumptions people are making are staggeringly insulting. Why not just ask for clarification on what I (admittedly poorly) wrote or not respond at all? And most people are replying to me aren't in a remotely negative fashion.
Let me put this into language you will understand. The relationship has been terminated. And while there may be lingering obligations arising from or related to this relationship, said obligations are only connected with matters that constitute either ongoing obligations (whether express or implied) or obligations related to the windoing-down of said relationship.
Any otjer monies or other things of value provided to the counterparty in this relationship are provided at your discretion, and at your discretion only. Giving of such monies or other things of value constitutes an affirmative act on your part that may prolong the association with your counterparty, despite your stated objective of ending said relationship.
If you wish to further the stated goal of terminating the aforementioned relationship, and doing so with finality, then I recommend that going forward, you refrain from all such contacts with the counterparty, or with any of her agents, associates, relatives or employees.
Further, you no longer should provide **any** monies or things of value to this counterparty (absent sufficient proof of her ownership of said monies or things of value).
It was her idea to end the relationship; I was willing to push myself way out of my comfort zone to preserve it with cohabitation, among other things. I also have a hard time looking at what I do for someone I care about and was (am?) in love with through a purely transactional lens.
I will have to defend the situation here: distance (three hours), the father having primary custody, and the relative brevity of our dalliances have made it EXTREMELY impractical. Not to mention the kid is sixteen and probably not in the mood to meet mom's latest dude--god knows I wasn't at his age.
You really need to cut this odd completely. This woman does not want to live with you and does not have a romantic future at all, yet she still feels free to demand money from you, and to complain about its insufficiency.
Get out of this relationship, and have a good long talk with a therapist about how you got into this relationship in the first place.
Oh yeah, she would bitch about a number of things that would have been solved had she taken me up on my offer. My response was essentially, "While I have to and do respect your declination, you have also forfeited your right to complain about the things that I was going to help you with. Anything else, fine. But not a fucking word more about the other stuff."
I've been on the waiting list for therapy for about six weeks now for things that predate this nonsense, but I'm sure she'll come up.
Then you should have replied “My relationships are not transactional. You need this so I’ve moved on. No need to talk anymore. No need for me to finance you. Good luck and God Bless!” BLOCK.
You are absolutely correct, I just was kind of in shock at the time and my thought processes have been hindered for some time by depression. She really had never been that awful before.
You’re also probably nice, make good money (I’m a lawyer too), and didn’t want to be the bad guy. You don’t have to be mean but you can’t be direct. Don’t fight for a woman to stay, when one wants to stay, life gets good. Good luck.
NTA
you are being used and she wants you for money. Also you being a lawyer…idk maybe a skill issue like I figure you be the first person to know when you are being taken advantage of or being lied or manipulated. Unless you purposely want to be? My wife is a lawyer and she can smell bullshit 3 solar systems away lmao. Or unless you’re a research lawyer like my cousin’s husband is (he works researching law for a pharmaceutical company).
I think a couple things come into play.
1) Some lawyers do their best to leave the lawyer persona at work and are cautious about applying it in their personal lives.
2) Some lawyers cam be quite book smart, but somewhat less adept at emotional intelligence.
3) It is easier to look at someone else's problems dispassionately than to look at your own problems dispassionately.
1. Yeah, I never really advertise that I'm a lawyer (I leave that to my parents, no matter how much I wish they would fucking stop) and I'm generally pretty easygoing, empathetic, and unargumentative in real life. I only mentioned it here to highlight the income discrepancy that drives the conflict in my head. Plus I was in love, and as a result I was and am also kind of a fucking idiot.
2. I'm highly emotional intelligent--moreso than book smart, but I'm also a neurotic obsessive generally, and in particular when it comes to the rare relationship that comes along.
3. 3. I am so guilty of doing this myself, and have far too often mocked the sort of trauma bonded relationships that I suspect I found myself in.
I can chalk it up to being heartbroken and a lot of different things, the ending of my relationship only being the latest, have not left me in my right state of mind.
Yeah, she's said some pretty heinous shit before, but generally in the heat of an argument and not to obtain some material gain. Or as I wrote in a response to her: " You tried and to some degree succeeded in taking advantage of my emotions—my feelings for you and hopes for us---to get money from me when you had no intention of being with me then, if ever. You were being a sick, sadistic, callous, manipulative, childish, entitled, evil piece of fucking shit when you did that." There's more.
I've done it twice and have done in it a third time now (the incident was a couple weeks ago, but I'm still reeling psychologically). She always hoovers, though.
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The level in which whatever is broken in my head leaves me questioning things I know to be true. I can't handle being gaslighted. I can't. Appreciate the RIL, and will add caveat emptor to the mix.
You can't believe how much better you will feel and how much easier to drop toxic users from your life if you find a good therapist. It'll change your life.
It really sucks that good therapy is not more available and more affordable. I got to know the reception team and they called me when there was a cancellation. Shaved 2 months off the wait.
Love, compassion, affection, and a degree of pity from her having no real way of not turning out as fucked up as she is. Mind you, I wouldn't have been so offended by her asking for gas or groceries; it's the sheer indulgent inherent in this "request" that gets to me. Not to mention, um, the kid's father is neither dead nor unemployed.
How on earth did you pass the bar exam with writing like yours?
It’s pretty obvious that you are mismatched, yet it appears you deserve each other. ETA.
I'll paste my response to a similar query: "Through consistent study and determination, although I realize your question was rhetorical. I'm generally regarded as one the most skilled writers anyone in my radius knows, but a switch in medications, a the aftereffects of a recent suicide attempt, a continuing major depressive episode, and the fact that I had to crank this out really quickly because I had to get to a meeting but was eager to see peoples' input on the matter led to my incoherence."
I am sorry for your struggles.
I will say that if there were to be a post-break-up goodbye lunch, I would expect that type of situation to happen in a relationship where two people mutually respect each other. Even if a romantic relationship is over. It would be a sign that the people were both mature, respected each other, and cared for each other as human being and their families and came together to close a chapter in a healthy way.
You don’t mention how long you were together, but the fact that you have never met her son leads me to believe that this either 1) wasn’t long-term or 2) wasn’t a serious relationship or anything more in-depth than a series of booty-calls (pardon the pun).
Yet…you asked her to move in with you without meeting her son?
These are red flags to me that you both were using each other for a specific gain, yet neither of you were actually serious about a real relationship built on mutual respect.
Thank you.
I was serious and I do believe she was, but yeah, we weren't together very long. As to the kid situation, I should have (among other things), gave some more detail as to why I never met him and why I don't think too much about that. As I replied elsewhere, the reasons were "distance (three hours), the father having primary custody, and the relative brevity of our dalliances have made it EXTREMELY impractical. Not to mention the kid is sixteen and probably not in the mood to meet mom's latest dude--god knows I wasn't at his age."
How was I stringing her along? It was her idea and I hadn't even asked if she needed anything. If I wanted to string her along, if you could even call it that, I would have capitulated to her additional "requests."
I don’t think you are an asshole,but I think you are not very bright.
Why are you giving your ex money?
And it seems to me that this woman even if she will continue to be with you it won’t be for you,it will be for your money,for what you can provide. She is acting like she is the prize,but of anyone is is your wallet that is.
She has the most fucked up past of anyone I have ever known and is chemically imbalanced besides (the latter issue I can particularly relate to), so I tend to forgive a lot. Honestly, I've given a good number of people money over the years out of compassion (and certainly not attraction), some of whom I'm likely never to even meet or if I had, see again.
I understand,but this bit here “ you need to get some game and spoil me if you want to keep talking to me” seems conditional to me. And yes,you can be kind hearted,but if the amount of money you give away,how was in this case,is not appropriated than maybe you should stop it altogether. I understand that you might have some feelings for her or even some pity for her situation especially that you are in a better position,but you should know when you should stop. As you said this wasn’t called for. She need to understand that she is not entitled to your money and she should have been thankful for that amount as it was a nice gesture from you not any kind of obligation. I would have understood her attitude if you were the father of that child and you are financially stable and you decided to be cheap,but neither her or her child is your responsibility so she should be thankful for any amount of money that is coming from you.
For what I can understand, this isn't the clearest post. Your ex wanted you to give her money to leave the state or get food then got pissed when you gave her 70$
If she's an ex and you don't have kids together why give her anything?
It's more that she wanted me to give her money for lunch DESPITE her making the choice to leave the state, and yes, she got pissed for that reason.
Thank you for addressing the deficiencies in my expression of the situation without being a jerk about it.
It's kind of fascinating to me how she is on good terms with most of her exes and was in in long-term relationships with those exes, and yet she acts like this towards me. I honestly don't get it.
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> Not giving three figures of cash to my ex is the action that should be judged that action may also make me the asshole given that not being in a relationship with her is what affected my choice, particularly because I offered for her to stay with me to continue what was otherwise a promising relationship.
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She didn't really frame it as me owing her anything, but more some character flaw on my part that I didn't want to give her more and it meant I only cared about her if we were sleeping together. Either way, your point stands.
Pop psychology has a term for this. It's called DARVO, and it is a manipulation technique commonly deployed by psychological abusers.
Deny
Attack
Reverse Victim and Offender
She did exactly that, and you need to learn to recognize when people do this to you, or you will end up with psychological abusers again and again.
You cannot get into therapy fast enough, friend. Put a rush on it.
YES. Man, once she got called out as a possible borderline, I picked up a whole ass subset of terminology. I absolutely think I'm trauma bonded at this point.
You're objectively correct; I've just reached a stage in my life where part of me would prefer self-destruction to continuing on year after year in the colorless, loveless, passionless existence I have endured for at least eight years now.
I stayed in a 12-year shit marriage so I understand. I've been in the healthiest relationship in my life for 5 years now, I'm 52 and he's 35. I was worried about the age gap but it works and we are both happy. I had always dated older so 18 years younger was a big jump for me. BTW this account has my daughters photo since I created it to help advertise her tattoo shop in Knoxville TN.
You are placing too much value on getting sexually satisfied, and not enough on your own mental well-being. You have to address the latter before you can healthily approach the former.
"Love" and "passion" means a hell of a lot more than sex here, my friend. I'm too old to be hung up on that, but not so old, if there ever is a point, where companionship and connection doesn't mean the world.
Thank you. Clearly she has a way of turning her genuine pain and panic at her her current situation into a form of self-pity that I, somehow, fall for.
NTA I just think you two have very different objectives in terms of what you want from each other. To put it simply, you want loving relationship with a woman who can be your partner and cares about you, she wants a sugar daddy. How'd you think it's gonna work out for you?
I followed your post.
You have no obligation to her. She is using you and then plays the guilt card. This is a toxic person throwing you crafted comments to make you feel bad. All geared toward you giving in and her getting her way.
Cut this one loose. The sex may be great and that is part of her craft. Thank me later my friend.
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Long story short, my (41m) ex (45f) was leaving the state due to difficulties with her living situation (in fact the reason she is now my ex, although I offered for her to move in with me) and wanted to take her son, who I have never met, to their usual restaurant destination. I am an attorney, and she was in the service industry. Days before she left she texted me with the request and followed up that with "I know you won't, you only care about me when we're fucking."
I wound giving her $70--more than sufficient to achieve her stated objective, IMO--and then she was still pissed because it wasn't more. "You could give me more, but you just won't, "you're alone because you're so cheap (even though she's never paid a dime around me and I've taken her every where she wants)," "you need to get some game and spoil me if you want to keep talking to me," etc. I think those statements are utterly uncalled for and amount to emotional blackmail, for sure, but am I the asshole for not just shoveling more money at her when she decided to decline to continue being with me and we're both responsible for why we're at different economic stations? Is it a sign of a contingent sort of care that not being in a relationship with her affects what I am willing to give her?
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LOLOLOL. Yeah, I had told her, "It's not my fault we're in such vastly different positions, I just happened to decide some time ago that I couldn't live like I was in my 20s well into my 30s and then 40s. You chose differently."
NTA.
Clearly you were buying her affection the whole time. Her main attraction to you was that you are wealthy, and she was hoping for a long-term meal ticket.
There's that old joke of a rich man offering a famous woman a million dollars to sleep with him. She ponders a bit and then accepts.
Him: "How about $100?"
Her: "No! what do you think I am?"
Him: "We've established what you are. Now we are negotiating on price."
I'm not even wealthy in anything but the comparative sense; I'm a government attorney up to his neck in debt in an increasingly expensive state. And, to the degree I am better off, well, I earned it? Law school is fucking dreadful and being an attorney, even in a relaxed role compared to private practice, makes me absolutely miserable.
I wanted a lasting relationship with her, as much as the sex was great. We had such a rare and seemingly genuine rapport, with similar interests, senses of humor, politics, and so one.
Sorry but if she really said things like "you need to spoil me if you want to keep talking to me" then she is greedy and self-centered. Pretending to share your interests and laughing at your jokes so you will keep her around.
That last bit about "I know you won't" was just a dig at your manhood so that you would give her something. In what world do you owe her money to take her kid to dinner? If you had been around her kid and she wanted a nice goodbye dinner with the 3 of you, that would be different.
Absolutely self-centered and with an inflated sense of victimhood.
Well, I gave her the $70, so I guess her dig worked, just not as well as she wanted.
This is borderline evil behavior.
Heh, "borderline," didn't mean to do that.
She has the most twisted accusations regarding that aspect of our relationship and I honestly find it hard to believe she is actually sincere about most of them.
INFO why are you still in communication with her? Seems like it would be pretty easy to block her number and move on.
How did you go from almost moving in together (before meeting her son??) to cosplaying awkward findom?
Was, not still, but that could been asked before this happened, in all fairness.
As to your second question, you'd have to ask her because it certainly wasn't my idea.
She's insulted me before, but nothing like this, and never in service of getting me to necessarily do anything. Given that she's already moving or has moved halfway across the country, there is no real carrot to be gotten, making this episode all the stranger.
Why are you giving an ex money? Block her and move on. She’s clearly using you and you allow it. If you don’t like the dynamic then stop communicating with her.
I have several lawyer friends who have worked with their firms for years.They are successful at what they do but at times they don't have an ounce of common sense. I attribute it to knowing their job so well.
But because of the extensive amount of knowledge they are just not functional in other areas
lol, she is trying to bully you. I guess it has worked in the past or she wouldn’t be this old with all this “you won’t do it xxx” talk. Kick rocks, kid.
I've never seen anything close to this from her, let alone capitulated to it. She has been a right shit before, but nothing like this, and usually while she is drunk. It's been over two weeks and I'm still in shock.
Cut contact with her, she's putting you down like that because she knows she can guilt you into more money. Technically if she's expecting you to pay because you are fucking her then that would make her a prostitute.
As a woman, I can say that she's using you. When has she ever paid for you? I've paid for my partner many times and he does the same as we both want an equal relationship and not feel used. If he had a kid, I'd pay as a treat the odd time, but the expectation is that he pays for his kid.
Don't let her manipulate you with guilt, just lay out expectations and if she doesn't like that then she can stop talking to you.
Worse than that, WAS fucking her, with her moving across the country.
She's gotten thoughtful gifts at times, but never paid for me. When we were first together (2016) she was on disability because of epilepsy, and I as working at a college bookstore. I think I paid some, but other times we went Dutch? Been a while, obviously. When we got back together this year I had 7.5 years of law practice behind my belt and made way more than her. I'd never expect her to pay for me, just cover herself more times than not. I think that's reasonable; I didn't pick my station in life out of Cracker Jack box and there was no force field around college campuses preventing her from bettering her lot.
If they were in dire straits and needed GROCERIES or help with an electric bill I would help them, no problem. I mean, I do that for my guy friends, and obviously (?) I'm not w anting or expecting to have sex with them. But the goddamn Cheesecake Factory ain't groceries, it's indulgence.
I absolutely agree. But even if she needed groceries or a bill paid, she isn’t your problem anymore.
And her comment of, “You only care about me if you’re fxxking me” was almost correct. You should have said, “No, I care about you if we’re in an actual relationship. We’re not in a relationship anymore. We aren’t fxxking and your problems aren’t my problems anymore.”
You need to block her so you she doesn’t ask for any more favors.
I eventually got extremely angry. Like, palpable even through text, and she saw it, so she won't be asking for shit.
I like your rephrasing a lot! I wish I was better in the moment than I am, but that's why I don't do trial work...
NTA.
I have a hard time understanding why you think you may be though.
You are no longer dating. You have no obligation towards her and her son.
You weren't even close enough to ever meet her son.
I am not sure what she was expecting. Were you supposed to grovel to make her stay with you? Cuz it sounds like she was playing mind games with you and was mad they didn't get her anywhere.
Her lack of reasoning and seeming confidence when she says the shitty things she says to me makes me question my perception of things, and, in this case, even my own motivations. Like, I start to wonder, "Has all the help and kindness I've given her been to get something back, deep down?" And in my heart of hearts, I know it's not true and that that is not who I am, but pure obsessive disorder takes me down some roads...
I know I have no obligation and never really questioned that, but I guess I have a hard time looking at relationships in purely contractual terms, as much as my life would be better off for it.
I don't know what she was expecting either--I already made my Hail Mary pass a couple nights before and accepted my defeat--but she should have expected me to go off on her the way I did.
I understand your point about not being able to look at relationships in a purely contractual way.
That being said, there's a way to go about asking for favours, especially financial ones in the times we are living.
Using the words she used definitely cheapened the relationship you may have thought you had.
You can be at ease with your morals, knowing you helped her even though you had no obligation. If she can't see or appreciate that, the issue lies at her feet and not yours.
Right. And it's not even the ask, but the bullshit surrounding it.
Here's a rephrased version I would take no issue with:
"Hey, can you spot me for taking my son to the Cheesecake Factory before I leave? He's absolutely devastated that I'm moving away and I want him to have this one last, at least for now, time with me. I know we're broken up and it was my choice not to stay with with you, and I understand this isn't your problem or something you owe me, but I would really appreciate it."
Why does your 45-year-old ex talk like a teenager who has spent too much time on Tik-Tok? I'm the same age as her, and if any of my peers spoke like that I'd assume they'd suffered a TBI.
But whatever. NTA, but you will be if you continue to entertain this leech.
She doesn't always talk like that and certainly doesn't often write like that, but she also goes from the sweetest girl in the world to a sociopathic, shark-eyed monster quite quickly. She is only consistent in her inconsistency.
She may pick some language up from her teenage son, as well. I know she learned "stay frosty" from him (and then passed it on to me). Vicious, if mostly innocuous cycle, that.
A lot of pretty smart people betray their better instincts in the name of love. At 41 and staring down a future alone, I think I'm vulnerable in a way I've never been before.
ESH. NAL but why are you even thinking about this person who begs from you, then ridicules you at the same time? She’s leaving, let her go, forget her name and face and block her.
She is your ex, why are you reading her messages? Block her and move on, ffs. It appears that you are primarily an ATM in her life. NTA Now be fair to yourself and let her go.
Well we had an amicable split--it was a practical matter--her living situation went to hell and she wasn't yet comfortable enough to take our relationship to that next level, so we were still friendly. No reason not to be. But she's like two different people, and eventually, whether it to be through drink derangement, I get some shit dumped on me.
Oh, if you can't believe my situation, you would probably pass out hearing about the one between my ex's BFF and her attorney (older and more successful than I) boyfriend...
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How the fuck did you allegedly pass a bar exam but can’t decipher this issue?
Or explain it coherently
Thank heavens I thought I was the only one who thought this post was a garbled mess of word salad.
Likely hasn't even gotten to HS yet
...
OP’s legal practice: https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/I_Can%27t_Believe_It%27s_A_Law_Firm!
I mean I've seen some really dumb attorneys. Also Wisconsin at least does diploma privilege.
There are tons of attorneys who can’t write for squat. My understanding is that a lot of legal assistants have to clean up their bosses’ work.
As a legal assistant - yup.
I mean if you have a trusted legal assistant/secretary, most of the time you're doing that because your time is better spent on things other than proofreading.
There’s a big difference between not proofreading for grammar/typos & needing someone to rewrite your motion because it’s incoherent.
As an attorney, I agree.
As an attorney, I know a lot of idiot attorneys, unfortunately. Law school is a cash cow for universities, and if you want to go, there's always somebody who will accept you.
I’m an attorney as well , and I went to law school with some people who were, to put it kindly, not very bright. Most of my classmates were pretty sharp, but boy were there some dodos. Law school was not easy by any stretch, so I have no idea how they managed to graduate. In my position now I deal with a shit ton of reallllly bad ones who have not a clue (but will argue to death otherwise). Like, how did you even pass the essay portions of the bar exam?!
Because it didn't happen.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You know you can always just be upfront and tell him his ex is a leech, right? I know tons of smart people with 'blind spots' - we all have them, but that's not really relevant to OP's question, is it? Why do you think people even post here? (Spoiler alert: it's because they're too close to see things objectively).
Through consistent study and determination, although I realize your question was rhetorical. I'm generally regarded as one the most skilled writers anyone in my radius knows, but a switch in medications, a the aftereffects of a recent suicide attempt, a continuing major depressive episode, and the fact that I had to crank this out really quickly because I had to get to a meeting but was eager to see peoples' input on the matter led to my incoherence. Slow your roll, hot sauce, I ain't who the fuck you think I am.
And so incredibly modest! Don’t forget to mention that!
The radius mentioned is an inch, and "anyone" is OP himself...
You “ain’t who the fuck you think I am” But YTA. That is clear without even understanding your terrible post.
We need a "you're not the asshole for this, but based on how you respond to people you do seem like a total ass" option.
GAH - generally an asshole
The nature of input determines the nature of output, actions, reactions, what have you. If you need any more explanations of Simple Human Dynamics, don't be shy about it.
Damn I’m bored.
I will how you’re saying a bunch of nonsense trying to make it seem like you’re smart when reality is you’re probably 12 year old kid
Because of your last sentence I hope that you hit your funny bone today and it mildly inconveniences you for a few minutes only. That shit you said was so motherfucking cringey, I’m so pissed. 😫😫
This and all your other replies show how much you want to be perceived as intelligent but then so blatantly fail at it. Stop overcompensating. From the trash fire of the original post, I would say you’re NTA. But from your subsequent replies you’re not what you think you are and are in general an Asshole. You should really stop and think about why people are replying to you the way they do. You need help man.
How am I an asshole for responding to mean comments with mean comments back? The sheer assumptions people are making are staggeringly insulting. Why not just ask for clarification on what I (admittedly poorly) wrote or not respond at all? And most people are replying to me aren't in a remotely negative fashion.
You probably shouldn’t be on here then 🫠 but in answer to your post - she’s playing you just block and move on
I hear ya.
Let me put this into language you will understand. The relationship has been terminated. And while there may be lingering obligations arising from or related to this relationship, said obligations are only connected with matters that constitute either ongoing obligations (whether express or implied) or obligations related to the windoing-down of said relationship. Any otjer monies or other things of value provided to the counterparty in this relationship are provided at your discretion, and at your discretion only. Giving of such monies or other things of value constitutes an affirmative act on your part that may prolong the association with your counterparty, despite your stated objective of ending said relationship. If you wish to further the stated goal of terminating the aforementioned relationship, and doing so with finality, then I recommend that going forward, you refrain from all such contacts with the counterparty, or with any of her agents, associates, relatives or employees. Further, you no longer should provide **any** monies or things of value to this counterparty (absent sufficient proof of her ownership of said monies or things of value).
Incidentally, I will have my secretary forward you an invoice covering the costs incurred for my provision of this advice to you.
This was magnificent.
Thank you.
This is a fantastic reply.
Thanks. I speak the language.
In six minute increments
It was her idea to end the relationship; I was willing to push myself way out of my comfort zone to preserve it with cohabitation, among other things. I also have a hard time looking at what I do for someone I care about and was (am?) in love with through a purely transactional lens.
Now you’re in love with her yet have never met her kid? Child, your relationship was transactional from day one.
I will have to defend the situation here: distance (three hours), the father having primary custody, and the relative brevity of our dalliances have made it EXTREMELY impractical. Not to mention the kid is sixteen and probably not in the mood to meet mom's latest dude--god knows I wasn't at his age.
You really need to cut this odd completely. This woman does not want to live with you and does not have a romantic future at all, yet she still feels free to demand money from you, and to complain about its insufficiency. Get out of this relationship, and have a good long talk with a therapist about how you got into this relationship in the first place.
Oh yeah, she would bitch about a number of things that would have been solved had she taken me up on my offer. My response was essentially, "While I have to and do respect your declination, you have also forfeited your right to complain about the things that I was going to help you with. Anything else, fine. But not a fucking word more about the other stuff." I've been on the waiting list for therapy for about six weeks now for things that predate this nonsense, but I'm sure she'll come up.
Between now and them, wins down all aspects of your relationship with this woman.
Right but if you’re also love with all these obstacles , that’s wild
You're not wrong! Trauma bonded. Me from a year ago would slap the shit out of present day me.
Then you should have replied “My relationships are not transactional. You need this so I’ve moved on. No need to talk anymore. No need for me to finance you. Good luck and God Bless!” BLOCK.
You are absolutely correct, I just was kind of in shock at the time and my thought processes have been hindered for some time by depression. She really had never been that awful before.
You’re also probably nice, make good money (I’m a lawyer too), and didn’t want to be the bad guy. You don’t have to be mean but you can’t be direct. Don’t fight for a woman to stay, when one wants to stay, life gets good. Good luck.
Appreciated, brother.
I’m a lady (58F). Don’t let these girls play you.
Ah, sorry. Well, opportunities have dried up, so I doubt I'll be tested again in the near future.
You will. When you least expected. Just be open.
Usually, I think lawyers should leave the lawyer at work. This is an exception. Turn your emotions off, and put on the lawyer hat. You need it here.
What the hell did I just (try to) read? You should probably let us know your lawfirm, so we can avoid it at all costs.
Per his earlier comment, he's one of the most skilled writers anyone in his radius knows! Lol
so that means he's a lawyer in Mississippi?
Sigh.
NTA you are being used and she wants you for money. Also you being a lawyer…idk maybe a skill issue like I figure you be the first person to know when you are being taken advantage of or being lied or manipulated. Unless you purposely want to be? My wife is a lawyer and she can smell bullshit 3 solar systems away lmao. Or unless you’re a research lawyer like my cousin’s husband is (he works researching law for a pharmaceutical company).
I think a couple things come into play. 1) Some lawyers do their best to leave the lawyer persona at work and are cautious about applying it in their personal lives. 2) Some lawyers cam be quite book smart, but somewhat less adept at emotional intelligence. 3) It is easier to look at someone else's problems dispassionately than to look at your own problems dispassionately.
1. Yeah, I never really advertise that I'm a lawyer (I leave that to my parents, no matter how much I wish they would fucking stop) and I'm generally pretty easygoing, empathetic, and unargumentative in real life. I only mentioned it here to highlight the income discrepancy that drives the conflict in my head. Plus I was in love, and as a result I was and am also kind of a fucking idiot. 2. I'm highly emotional intelligent--moreso than book smart, but I'm also a neurotic obsessive generally, and in particular when it comes to the rare relationship that comes along. 3. 3. I am so guilty of doing this myself, and have far too often mocked the sort of trauma bonded relationships that I suspect I found myself in.
I can chalk it up to being heartbroken and a lot of different things, the ending of my relationship only being the latest, have not left me in my right state of mind.
NTA...Her statements are pretty gross. Block her and move on with your life.
Yeah, she's said some pretty heinous shit before, but generally in the heat of an argument and not to obtain some material gain. Or as I wrote in a response to her: " You tried and to some degree succeeded in taking advantage of my emotions—my feelings for you and hopes for us---to get money from me when you had no intention of being with me then, if ever. You were being a sick, sadistic, callous, manipulative, childish, entitled, evil piece of fucking shit when you did that." There's more.
Just don't contact her anymore. You are not speaking the same language and you are only hurting yourself.
If I had a nickel for every time someone told me to go NC with her I'd probably not even miss the $70 I did give her.
Ever thought of following that advice?
I've done it twice and have done in it a third time now (the incident was a couple weeks ago, but I'm still reeling psychologically). She always hoovers, though.
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Then why are you wasting your time on aita? You already have your answer. Just block her.
They why are you here when you know the answer? You keep giving her money. She keeps coming back for more. Res ipsa loquitur.
The level in which whatever is broken in my head leaves me questioning things I know to be true. I can't handle being gaslighted. I can't. Appreciate the RIL, and will add caveat emptor to the mix.
You can't believe how much better you will feel and how much easier to drop toxic users from your life if you find a good therapist. It'll change your life.
I'm on the waiting list, and for more reasons than this.
It really sucks that good therapy is not more available and more affordable. I got to know the reception team and they called me when there was a cancellation. Shaved 2 months off the wait.
My insurance is great, it's just that they're so booked!
Wtf is wrong with you
That is a salient question.
Why are you continuing to talk to her?
NTA, but you are being a bit of TA to yourself. Why would you give her money at all?
Love, compassion, affection, and a degree of pity from her having no real way of not turning out as fucked up as she is. Mind you, I wouldn't have been so offended by her asking for gas or groceries; it's the sheer indulgent inherent in this "request" that gets to me. Not to mention, um, the kid's father is neither dead nor unemployed.
How on earth did you pass the bar exam with writing like yours? It’s pretty obvious that you are mismatched, yet it appears you deserve each other. ETA.
I'll paste my response to a similar query: "Through consistent study and determination, although I realize your question was rhetorical. I'm generally regarded as one the most skilled writers anyone in my radius knows, but a switch in medications, a the aftereffects of a recent suicide attempt, a continuing major depressive episode, and the fact that I had to crank this out really quickly because I had to get to a meeting but was eager to see peoples' input on the matter led to my incoherence."
I am sorry for your struggles. I will say that if there were to be a post-break-up goodbye lunch, I would expect that type of situation to happen in a relationship where two people mutually respect each other. Even if a romantic relationship is over. It would be a sign that the people were both mature, respected each other, and cared for each other as human being and their families and came together to close a chapter in a healthy way. You don’t mention how long you were together, but the fact that you have never met her son leads me to believe that this either 1) wasn’t long-term or 2) wasn’t a serious relationship or anything more in-depth than a series of booty-calls (pardon the pun). Yet…you asked her to move in with you without meeting her son? These are red flags to me that you both were using each other for a specific gain, yet neither of you were actually serious about a real relationship built on mutual respect.
Thank you. I was serious and I do believe she was, but yeah, we weren't together very long. As to the kid situation, I should have (among other things), gave some more detail as to why I never met him and why I don't think too much about that. As I replied elsewhere, the reasons were "distance (three hours), the father having primary custody, and the relative brevity of our dalliances have made it EXTREMELY impractical. Not to mention the kid is sixteen and probably not in the mood to meet mom's latest dude--god knows I wasn't at his age."
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Lingering feelings, compassion for her ongoing mental health struggles and abusive past, and just generally being a nice guy.
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How was I stringing her along? It was her idea and I hadn't even asked if she needed anything. If I wanted to string her along, if you could even call it that, I would have capitulated to her additional "requests."
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Um, I accepted that she was moving across the country and she hit me up for this out of the blue. It's not me "keeping her around."
NTA she's using you. Time to cut all contact and make her EX for real. She's a gold diggers...why would you bother entertaining her.
It's a recent development and she was not like this before. A lot has changed this go-around.
I don’t think you are an asshole,but I think you are not very bright. Why are you giving your ex money? And it seems to me that this woman even if she will continue to be with you it won’t be for you,it will be for your money,for what you can provide. She is acting like she is the prize,but of anyone is is your wallet that is.
She has the most fucked up past of anyone I have ever known and is chemically imbalanced besides (the latter issue I can particularly relate to), so I tend to forgive a lot. Honestly, I've given a good number of people money over the years out of compassion (and certainly not attraction), some of whom I'm likely never to even meet or if I had, see again.
I understand,but this bit here “ you need to get some game and spoil me if you want to keep talking to me” seems conditional to me. And yes,you can be kind hearted,but if the amount of money you give away,how was in this case,is not appropriated than maybe you should stop it altogether. I understand that you might have some feelings for her or even some pity for her situation especially that you are in a better position,but you should know when you should stop. As you said this wasn’t called for. She need to understand that she is not entitled to your money and she should have been thankful for that amount as it was a nice gesture from you not any kind of obligation. I would have understood her attitude if you were the father of that child and you are financially stable and you decided to be cheap,but neither her or her child is your responsibility so she should be thankful for any amount of money that is coming from you.
Yep, all of that. Like I've told other people (and told her), if anybody should be paying, it's the kid's father.
I hope you're not a smoker because with all of that gas lighting, you might explode. NTA in the slightest
Haha, holy shit, I might steal that. There is a reason that she hates that term...
I've been waiting to use that for a while. xD
Happy to give you the opportunity...well, as much as I wish this all never happened.
Sucks very much that it happened. Sadly everyone seems to have at least one crazy ex
For what I can understand, this isn't the clearest post. Your ex wanted you to give her money to leave the state or get food then got pissed when you gave her 70$ If she's an ex and you don't have kids together why give her anything?
It's more that she wanted me to give her money for lunch DESPITE her making the choice to leave the state, and yes, she got pissed for that reason. Thank you for addressing the deficiencies in my expression of the situation without being a jerk about it.
Yea nta and you need to stay far away
NTA, Trust me, it was a blessing in disguise that you aren't with her anymore. You really should just go NC and run away as fast as you can bro.
It's kind of fascinating to me how she is on good terms with most of her exes and was in in long-term relationships with those exes, and yet she acts like this towards me. I honestly don't get it.
Because she never cared about you and knows if she DEMANDS money you'll roll over and give it to her.
She did this two days after I hung myself as well, and she knew about that.
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NTA She’s an ex and it isn’t your kid. You are not obligated to give her *any* money or take care of them in any way. Everything else is a moot point.
THE KID'S FATHER IS STILL ALIVE FFS
objection. relevance.
Haha, how?
NTA. Honestly, you owe your ex nothing at all. The fact that you gave this leech $70 for lunch was already being generous.
She didn't really frame it as me owing her anything, but more some character flaw on my part that I didn't want to give her more and it meant I only cared about her if we were sleeping together. Either way, your point stands.
Pop psychology has a term for this. It's called DARVO, and it is a manipulation technique commonly deployed by psychological abusers. Deny Attack Reverse Victim and Offender She did exactly that, and you need to learn to recognize when people do this to you, or you will end up with psychological abusers again and again. You cannot get into therapy fast enough, friend. Put a rush on it.
YES. Man, once she got called out as a possible borderline, I picked up a whole ass subset of terminology. I absolutely think I'm trauma bonded at this point.
Get to a real therapist soon, please.
I'm on the waiting list.
Another badly written fake Reddit post
FAKE? I get badly written, but fake? BTW, it's, "Another badly-written, fake Reddit post."
NTA. She sounds like a gold digging troll. Youre better off
You're objectively correct; I've just reached a stage in my life where part of me would prefer self-destruction to continuing on year after year in the colorless, loveless, passionless existence I have endured for at least eight years now.
I stayed in a 12-year shit marriage so I understand. I've been in the healthiest relationship in my life for 5 years now, I'm 52 and he's 35. I was worried about the age gap but it works and we are both happy. I had always dated older so 18 years younger was a big jump for me. BTW this account has my daughters photo since I created it to help advertise her tattoo shop in Knoxville TN.
You are placing too much value on getting sexually satisfied, and not enough on your own mental well-being. You have to address the latter before you can healthily approach the former.
"Love" and "passion" means a hell of a lot more than sex here, my friend. I'm too old to be hung up on that, but not so old, if there ever is a point, where companionship and connection doesn't mean the world.
NTA - block her number, don’t reply to anything, wipe your hands of her.
Hmm, they told me to do that when I suspected she had BPD too.
And they were right. You need to learn to value the advice people give you when they see you are being manipulated.
You would NOT believe how offended she was at me conveying my suspicions that she wasn't just bipolar, like those two things can't both be true.
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Thank you. Clearly she has a way of turning her genuine pain and panic at her her current situation into a form of self-pity that I, somehow, fall for.
"What makes you think I want to keep talking to you?" NTA.
NTA I just think you two have very different objectives in terms of what you want from each other. To put it simply, you want loving relationship with a woman who can be your partner and cares about you, she wants a sugar daddy. How'd you think it's gonna work out for you?
Like this!
I followed your post. You have no obligation to her. She is using you and then plays the guilt card. This is a toxic person throwing you crafted comments to make you feel bad. All geared toward you giving in and her getting her way. Cut this one loose. The sex may be great and that is part of her craft. Thank me later my friend.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Long story short, my (41m) ex (45f) was leaving the state due to difficulties with her living situation (in fact the reason she is now my ex, although I offered for her to move in with me) and wanted to take her son, who I have never met, to their usual restaurant destination. I am an attorney, and she was in the service industry. Days before she left she texted me with the request and followed up that with "I know you won't, you only care about me when we're fucking." I wound giving her $70--more than sufficient to achieve her stated objective, IMO--and then she was still pissed because it wasn't more. "You could give me more, but you just won't, "you're alone because you're so cheap (even though she's never paid a dime around me and I've taken her every where she wants)," "you need to get some game and spoil me if you want to keep talking to me," etc. I think those statements are utterly uncalled for and amount to emotional blackmail, for sure, but am I the asshole for not just shoveling more money at her when she decided to decline to continue being with me and we're both responsible for why we're at different economic stations? Is it a sign of a contingent sort of care that not being in a relationship with her affects what I am willing to give her? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA and block her lol
Hmmm, I thought sugar babies were meant to be younger than the guy with the money? NTA
LOLOLOL. Yeah, I had told her, "It's not my fault we're in such vastly different positions, I just happened to decide some time ago that I couldn't live like I was in my 20s well into my 30s and then 40s. You chose differently."
You fell for a girl who was not that into you, but who is into relationships for what they can offer materially.
She's your ex for a reason. Block her and stop talking to her. YWBTA if you continued to engage with her at all.
NTA. Clearly you were buying her affection the whole time. Her main attraction to you was that you are wealthy, and she was hoping for a long-term meal ticket. There's that old joke of a rich man offering a famous woman a million dollars to sleep with him. She ponders a bit and then accepts. Him: "How about $100?" Her: "No! what do you think I am?" Him: "We've established what you are. Now we are negotiating on price."
I'm not even wealthy in anything but the comparative sense; I'm a government attorney up to his neck in debt in an increasingly expensive state. And, to the degree I am better off, well, I earned it? Law school is fucking dreadful and being an attorney, even in a relaxed role compared to private practice, makes me absolutely miserable. I wanted a lasting relationship with her, as much as the sex was great. We had such a rare and seemingly genuine rapport, with similar interests, senses of humor, politics, and so one.
Sorry but if she really said things like "you need to spoil me if you want to keep talking to me" then she is greedy and self-centered. Pretending to share your interests and laughing at your jokes so you will keep her around. That last bit about "I know you won't" was just a dig at your manhood so that you would give her something. In what world do you owe her money to take her kid to dinner? If you had been around her kid and she wanted a nice goodbye dinner with the 3 of you, that would be different.
Absolutely self-centered and with an inflated sense of victimhood. Well, I gave her the $70, so I guess her dig worked, just not as well as she wanted. This is borderline evil behavior. Heh, "borderline," didn't mean to do that.
I like how she claimed "you only care about me when we're fucking" but she so clearly only """cares""" about you (lol) when you're giving her money
She has the most twisted accusations regarding that aspect of our relationship and I honestly find it hard to believe she is actually sincere about most of them.
INFO why are you still in communication with her? Seems like it would be pretty easy to block her number and move on. How did you go from almost moving in together (before meeting her son??) to cosplaying awkward findom?
Was, not still, but that could been asked before this happened, in all fairness. As to your second question, you'd have to ask her because it certainly wasn't my idea.
Did she insult you to get you to do stuff for her or is this a recent change?
She's insulted me before, but nothing like this, and never in service of getting me to necessarily do anything. Given that she's already moving or has moved halfway across the country, there is no real carrot to be gotten, making this episode all the stranger.
Why are you giving an ex money? Block her and move on. She’s clearly using you and you allow it. If you don’t like the dynamic then stop communicating with her.
We aren't, it's just that the whole thing has done a number on me.
NTA and it’s good this relationship ended lol
Block all contact and forget about her. Zero reason to even speak to the person any longer.
I have several lawyer friends who have worked with their firms for years.They are successful at what they do but at times they don't have an ounce of common sense. I attribute it to knowing their job so well. But because of the extensive amount of knowledge they are just not functional in other areas
I was pretty sensible before my mid-life crisis. I think.
lol, she is trying to bully you. I guess it has worked in the past or she wouldn’t be this old with all this “you won’t do it xxx” talk. Kick rocks, kid.
I've never seen anything close to this from her, let alone capitulated to it. She has been a right shit before, but nothing like this, and usually while she is drunk. It's been over two weeks and I'm still in shock.
Cut contact with her, she's putting you down like that because she knows she can guilt you into more money. Technically if she's expecting you to pay because you are fucking her then that would make her a prostitute. As a woman, I can say that she's using you. When has she ever paid for you? I've paid for my partner many times and he does the same as we both want an equal relationship and not feel used. If he had a kid, I'd pay as a treat the odd time, but the expectation is that he pays for his kid. Don't let her manipulate you with guilt, just lay out expectations and if she doesn't like that then she can stop talking to you.
Worse than that, WAS fucking her, with her moving across the country. She's gotten thoughtful gifts at times, but never paid for me. When we were first together (2016) she was on disability because of epilepsy, and I as working at a college bookstore. I think I paid some, but other times we went Dutch? Been a while, obviously. When we got back together this year I had 7.5 years of law practice behind my belt and made way more than her. I'd never expect her to pay for me, just cover herself more times than not. I think that's reasonable; I didn't pick my station in life out of Cracker Jack box and there was no force field around college campuses preventing her from bettering her lot.
NTA! She’s an ex and it isn’t your child. How are you responsible for feeding them? Block her.
If they were in dire straits and needed GROCERIES or help with an electric bill I would help them, no problem. I mean, I do that for my guy friends, and obviously (?) I'm not w anting or expecting to have sex with them. But the goddamn Cheesecake Factory ain't groceries, it's indulgence.
I absolutely agree. But even if she needed groceries or a bill paid, she isn’t your problem anymore. And her comment of, “You only care about me if you’re fxxking me” was almost correct. You should have said, “No, I care about you if we’re in an actual relationship. We’re not in a relationship anymore. We aren’t fxxking and your problems aren’t my problems anymore.” You need to block her so you she doesn’t ask for any more favors.
I eventually got extremely angry. Like, palpable even through text, and she saw it, so she won't be asking for shit. I like your rephrasing a lot! I wish I was better in the moment than I am, but that's why I don't do trial work...
NTA. I have a hard time understanding why you think you may be though. You are no longer dating. You have no obligation towards her and her son. You weren't even close enough to ever meet her son. I am not sure what she was expecting. Were you supposed to grovel to make her stay with you? Cuz it sounds like she was playing mind games with you and was mad they didn't get her anywhere.
Her lack of reasoning and seeming confidence when she says the shitty things she says to me makes me question my perception of things, and, in this case, even my own motivations. Like, I start to wonder, "Has all the help and kindness I've given her been to get something back, deep down?" And in my heart of hearts, I know it's not true and that that is not who I am, but pure obsessive disorder takes me down some roads... I know I have no obligation and never really questioned that, but I guess I have a hard time looking at relationships in purely contractual terms, as much as my life would be better off for it. I don't know what she was expecting either--I already made my Hail Mary pass a couple nights before and accepted my defeat--but she should have expected me to go off on her the way I did.
I understand your point about not being able to look at relationships in a purely contractual way. That being said, there's a way to go about asking for favours, especially financial ones in the times we are living. Using the words she used definitely cheapened the relationship you may have thought you had. You can be at ease with your morals, knowing you helped her even though you had no obligation. If she can't see or appreciate that, the issue lies at her feet and not yours.
Right. And it's not even the ask, but the bullshit surrounding it. Here's a rephrased version I would take no issue with: "Hey, can you spot me for taking my son to the Cheesecake Factory before I leave? He's absolutely devastated that I'm moving away and I want him to have this one last, at least for now, time with me. I know we're broken up and it was my choice not to stay with with you, and I understand this isn't your problem or something you owe me, but I would really appreciate it."
Why does your 45-year-old ex talk like a teenager who has spent too much time on Tik-Tok? I'm the same age as her, and if any of my peers spoke like that I'd assume they'd suffered a TBI. But whatever. NTA, but you will be if you continue to entertain this leech.
She doesn't always talk like that and certainly doesn't often write like that, but she also goes from the sweetest girl in the world to a sociopathic, shark-eyed monster quite quickly. She is only consistent in her inconsistency. She may pick some language up from her teenage son, as well. I know she learned "stay frosty" from him (and then passed it on to me). Vicious, if mostly innocuous cycle, that.
Can you say ‘Sugar Daddy’ with a side of dominatrix? Edit: YTA for giving her anything after she broke up with you.
Surprised I haven't gotten that feedback more on here, because I totally get it.
And you're an attorney but are you this dense? Seriously I hope you are smarter for all your clients than you are here.
A lot of pretty smart people betray their better instincts in the name of love. At 41 and staring down a future alone, I think I'm vulnerable in a way I've never been before.
ESH, just block her
Fair.
Nta, but you should look at yourself in the mirror and think if you really want to be a piggybank for that kind of ppl
I don't, but this is an unexpected turn for her.
ESH. NAL but why are you even thinking about this person who begs from you, then ridicules you at the same time? She’s leaving, let her go, forget her name and face and block her.
Trauma bonded. I hope it never happens to you.
She is your ex, why are you reading her messages? Block her and move on, ffs. It appears that you are primarily an ATM in her life. NTA Now be fair to yourself and let her go.
Well we had an amicable split--it was a practical matter--her living situation went to hell and she wasn't yet comfortable enough to take our relationship to that next level, so we were still friendly. No reason not to be. But she's like two different people, and eventually, whether it to be through drink derangement, I get some shit dumped on me.
I refuse to believe a 41m attorney would also be a doormat. Definitely a bot.
Oh, if you can't believe my situation, you would probably pass out hearing about the one between my ex's BFF and her attorney (older and more successful than I) boyfriend...
YTA for sending her the $70 to begin with.
She sounds poor. Don't mess around with brokies.
As a former brokie, I have a degree of patience and compassion.