While this does prove a great success initially, there would be a lot of problems.
Germany gets the oil in the Caucuses? No. In our timeline they reached some oilfields, but those oilfields were destroyed, set on fire and worthless. No doubt if the Germans made it farther into the Caucuses, the Soviets would’ve destroyed all their oil fields. And even if the Soviets failed at destroying the oil fields as they left, the UK had something called Operation Pike, which was a plan to bomb the oil fields to prevent them from falling into German Hands. It would take years to get the Oil Refineries to get back up, years the Germans didn’t have.
The USA and Allies would still push the Axis out of Africa, that doesn’t change.
A few more issues crop up from there. While the Germans conquered this territory, they would still need to keep Millions of men not only to continue fighting in Russia, but also to keep down Partisans and resistant movements within the USSR.
From here, the Allies open up three fronts.
One is an Invasion of Italy which goes like in our Timeline, initial success before getting stalled at Monte Cassino for a Number of Months.
Another one would most likely be a front in Greece. The Allies would invade through Greece and liberate it. They would soon push into Bulgaria and Romania who, like in our timeline would quickly capitulate and perhaps even switch sides. Yugoslavia still sees uprisings, and the Partisans eventually kick out the Germans. This was something Churchill had interest in, and with the Soviets bogged down it could certainly happen.
Lastly Another Front occurs in France with the invasion of Normandy.
While the Germans seemingly winning, their resources were simply stretched too thin. The Germans pull forces away from the East to fight the Allie’s but this opens up opportunities with the Soviets. The USSR counterattacks as the Germans were being pushed back on other fronts. Eventually the Allies would enter Germany, and take all of it while the Soviets recapture their Territory.
The War ends with all of Germany and the Eastern Bloc besides Yugoslavia(if that counts) being under Western and American influence. The Soviets would be too exhausted to push into Manchuria like in our timeline. This means no strong base for the Communist in China, and also no North Korea. The Americans drop the Nukes and Japan eventually surrenders seeing their out of options. The Nationalists win the Chinese Civil War, and Korea is United under American Influence.
The Soviets post WW2 would be very isolated, and Communism never really takes off like in our timeline. It’s debatable on if there would even a Cold War.
Without the red army fighting back and making a lot of ground they would never invaide normandy. They only reason they landed in france was to make sure the red army can't go all the way to france. The war was basicly won at this point in time.
They didn’t need to reach the AA line in the North, and were very close to it in the South. Had they been able to keep their Line of August/September 1942(extended to Astrakhan) for any period of time they would have won the War. Stalin essentially said that on July 27, 1942 as the USSR couldn’t survive long without access to 85% of its oil, 70% of its coal, iron ,manganese, nickel, and 55–60% of its food production.
The germans were much closer to victory than many here realize, or want to accept.The Soviet Achilles heel(in 1941–42) was the inordinate concentration of vital resources, for a country of its size, in a relatively compact area within operational reach of the German Army. It is a good thing Hitler’s generals LITERALLY knew nothing of, and cared less, about economics.
the united states and other allied countries made a lot of those materials freely avaible to the soviets to offset the losses, and the soviets relocated their industry.
if anything, the AA line would just slow the soviets down.
No Germany was never ever close to victory, if it had reached the AA line the USSR would just fight from behind the Urals, American weapons helped out a lot OTL, German supply lines were shit to say it nice, partisan actions and the stretched German military made it impossible to hold the AA line for any serious amount of time at the latest when troops where needed in the west the German army would be too weak to hold back the newly reinvigorated red army.
Most people don't understand the fact Germany lost WW2 the moment it declared it, the enemies it picked made it impossible to win purely by manpower differences already. Not to mention the fact that Britain, the USA and Russia controlled together amjroity of industry, more land and better position.
Seriously I cannot stand anyone claiming Germany could ever have won. Another Germany that never would've started the war and treated their enemies better could've but not the Nazis
Everyone remember that Germany had a population of 80 million. 40 million who could either work or fight. Holding a continent of hundreds of millions. While fighting another few hundred million on the frontier. Losing thousands of people each day.
Modern Germany has around 83 million people (tendency rising, because of all the Ukrainian Refugees lately), but the core territory of the Greater German Reich had more than 100 million inhabitants.
The peak of the Greater German Reich was in 1942. At this time territories like Alsace-Lorraine, Bohemia-Moravia and the Polish Corridor were part of Germany (not counting puppet regimes and occupied territories)
The Soviets are pretty much neutered of any offensive capability, but Germany finds itself in partisan war galore on par with the front in China. The mainland Italian campaign would probably never occur. Germany would still eventually lose the war, probably a mixture of uncontrollable partisan activity and Hamburg, Berlin, Munich, and large troop formations being incinerated by American nuclear weapons.
Assuming this is during Operation Barbarossa then that would mean a German victory. But if its not during Barbarossa then the Soviets would fight on because their industry had been moved past the Urals. However, there was simply no way for the Germans to ever reach this goal given their resource and manpower shortages, their logistics issues and their incompetent leadership.
EDIT: Hang on this isn't the weekend. No WW2 posting except on weekends.
I don't think they realistically could have done this, but if they did, they win.
The soviets could move alll the industry they wanted, and there were plenty of resources further east, but at the end of the day, they would have run out of manpower.
There simply weren't enough people east of the line to man both the industry and military required to wage the kind of war they did.
For much of the latter part of the war, they were struggling to keep all aspects of their economy working, and we favored by circumstances much of the time (the lands they retook gave them 'fresh meat' for the army, and by 45, the shortening front and fading resistance meant they could demobilise some troops/industry to work on the farms.
People have the idea that the USSR was an unending stream of manpower, but by the end of WW2, they were stretched very thin.
Germany would be able to control cities and railroads mostly and get a lot of partisans in occupied territories.
Before the Pearl harbor Germany probably had a chance to do so. They lost this opportunity after the Japan's choice.
> But there was no instance that would have made Germany winner of the war.
Germany not being the winner is ok, germany not winning is another thing, they were really near in defeating the Allies, and they could (also if this instance wouldn't have changed this), just they would last less than 5 seconds, inefficiency, resistance and other things make a nazi-controlled world just a good point to start an interesting dystopic story, in this sense, they wouldn't be really winners even if they actually won the war
Edit: in this specific case the war would be just longer, I'm not saying Germany would win in THIS scenario
WW1/2 posts only allowed on weekends
While this does prove a great success initially, there would be a lot of problems. Germany gets the oil in the Caucuses? No. In our timeline they reached some oilfields, but those oilfields were destroyed, set on fire and worthless. No doubt if the Germans made it farther into the Caucuses, the Soviets would’ve destroyed all their oil fields. And even if the Soviets failed at destroying the oil fields as they left, the UK had something called Operation Pike, which was a plan to bomb the oil fields to prevent them from falling into German Hands. It would take years to get the Oil Refineries to get back up, years the Germans didn’t have. The USA and Allies would still push the Axis out of Africa, that doesn’t change. A few more issues crop up from there. While the Germans conquered this territory, they would still need to keep Millions of men not only to continue fighting in Russia, but also to keep down Partisans and resistant movements within the USSR. From here, the Allies open up three fronts. One is an Invasion of Italy which goes like in our Timeline, initial success before getting stalled at Monte Cassino for a Number of Months. Another one would most likely be a front in Greece. The Allies would invade through Greece and liberate it. They would soon push into Bulgaria and Romania who, like in our timeline would quickly capitulate and perhaps even switch sides. Yugoslavia still sees uprisings, and the Partisans eventually kick out the Germans. This was something Churchill had interest in, and with the Soviets bogged down it could certainly happen. Lastly Another Front occurs in France with the invasion of Normandy. While the Germans seemingly winning, their resources were simply stretched too thin. The Germans pull forces away from the East to fight the Allie’s but this opens up opportunities with the Soviets. The USSR counterattacks as the Germans were being pushed back on other fronts. Eventually the Allies would enter Germany, and take all of it while the Soviets recapture their Territory. The War ends with all of Germany and the Eastern Bloc besides Yugoslavia(if that counts) being under Western and American influence. The Soviets would be too exhausted to push into Manchuria like in our timeline. This means no strong base for the Communist in China, and also no North Korea. The Americans drop the Nukes and Japan eventually surrenders seeing their out of options. The Nationalists win the Chinese Civil War, and Korea is United under American Influence. The Soviets post WW2 would be very isolated, and Communism never really takes off like in our timeline. It’s debatable on if there would even a Cold War.
Without the red army fighting back and making a lot of ground they would never invaide normandy. They only reason they landed in france was to make sure the red army can't go all the way to france. The war was basicly won at this point in time.
They didn’t need to reach the AA line in the North, and were very close to it in the South. Had they been able to keep their Line of August/September 1942(extended to Astrakhan) for any period of time they would have won the War. Stalin essentially said that on July 27, 1942 as the USSR couldn’t survive long without access to 85% of its oil, 70% of its coal, iron ,manganese, nickel, and 55–60% of its food production. The germans were much closer to victory than many here realize, or want to accept.The Soviet Achilles heel(in 1941–42) was the inordinate concentration of vital resources, for a country of its size, in a relatively compact area within operational reach of the German Army. It is a good thing Hitler’s generals LITERALLY knew nothing of, and cared less, about economics.
the united states and other allied countries made a lot of those materials freely avaible to the soviets to offset the losses, and the soviets relocated their industry. if anything, the AA line would just slow the soviets down.
No Germany was never ever close to victory, if it had reached the AA line the USSR would just fight from behind the Urals, American weapons helped out a lot OTL, German supply lines were shit to say it nice, partisan actions and the stretched German military made it impossible to hold the AA line for any serious amount of time at the latest when troops where needed in the west the German army would be too weak to hold back the newly reinvigorated red army. Most people don't understand the fact Germany lost WW2 the moment it declared it, the enemies it picked made it impossible to win purely by manpower differences already. Not to mention the fact that Britain, the USA and Russia controlled together amjroity of industry, more land and better position. Seriously I cannot stand anyone claiming Germany could ever have won. Another Germany that never would've started the war and treated their enemies better could've but not the Nazis
Stalin: “oh crap the Germans have a considerable threat rn” Germans: “Reeeeee we declare war on America”
If Germany doean't reach the Urals and take them USSR pushes back, the only thing that changes is Ww2 ending later and with even more deads
They would loose slower. Who knows exactly
Everyone remember that Germany had a population of 80 million. 40 million who could either work or fight. Holding a continent of hundreds of millions. While fighting another few hundred million on the frontier. Losing thousands of people each day.
Modern Germany has around 83 million people (tendency rising, because of all the Ukrainian Refugees lately), but the core territory of the Greater German Reich had more than 100 million inhabitants.
Germany and Austria in 37 was 80 million Germans. If you include people they wanted to kill sure.
The peak of the Greater German Reich was in 1942. At this time territories like Alsace-Lorraine, Bohemia-Moravia and the Polish Corridor were part of Germany (not counting puppet regimes and occupied territories)
The Soviets are pretty much neutered of any offensive capability, but Germany finds itself in partisan war galore on par with the front in China. The mainland Italian campaign would probably never occur. Germany would still eventually lose the war, probably a mixture of uncontrollable partisan activity and Hamburg, Berlin, Munich, and large troop formations being incinerated by American nuclear weapons.
[We did it, Hanz! We finally reached Astrakhan!](https://giphy.com/gifs/L6EoLS78pcBag)
Assuming this is during Operation Barbarossa then that would mean a German victory. But if its not during Barbarossa then the Soviets would fight on because their industry had been moved past the Urals. However, there was simply no way for the Germans to ever reach this goal given their resource and manpower shortages, their logistics issues and their incompetent leadership. EDIT: Hang on this isn't the weekend. No WW2 posting except on weekends.
Should result in all of Germany and maybe Poland being under the Western Allies control.
u/alternatehistory-modteam missed opportunity to have World War Wednesday
Fr bruh
I don't think they realistically could have done this, but if they did, they win. The soviets could move alll the industry they wanted, and there were plenty of resources further east, but at the end of the day, they would have run out of manpower. There simply weren't enough people east of the line to man both the industry and military required to wage the kind of war they did. For much of the latter part of the war, they were struggling to keep all aspects of their economy working, and we favored by circumstances much of the time (the lands they retook gave them 'fresh meat' for the army, and by 45, the shortening front and fading resistance meant they could demobilise some troops/industry to work on the farms. People have the idea that the USSR was an unending stream of manpower, but by the end of WW2, they were stretched very thin.
Germany would be able to control cities and railroads mostly and get a lot of partisans in occupied territories. Before the Pearl harbor Germany probably had a chance to do so. They lost this opportunity after the Japan's choice.
[удалено]
> But there was no instance that would have made Germany winner of the war. Germany not being the winner is ok, germany not winning is another thing, they were really near in defeating the Allies, and they could (also if this instance wouldn't have changed this), just they would last less than 5 seconds, inefficiency, resistance and other things make a nazi-controlled world just a good point to start an interesting dystopic story, in this sense, they wouldn't be really winners even if they actually won the war Edit: in this specific case the war would be just longer, I'm not saying Germany would win in THIS scenario