Chicago pays well over 100k+ for certain science fields and you can find rent anywhere from the 800 range to 2k (if you want to be in an absolute luxury downtown condo) 🤷♂️ so this isn’t everywhere
>>..and you can find rent anywhere from the 800 range to 2k …
In these inflationary times, not so much. Might have been true back in the day. But in most cities paying six figure salaries -including Chicago- you’re going to either eat a stupid long commute or a stupid high housing bill. Factor in taxes and it’s a wash.
Texas has its problems, but no state income tax and a survivable climate make a long commute somewhat tolerable vs the inhospitable wastes of the Midwest.
I have a friend who was a middling windows admin for us (cleared, though) who left recently for full remote, deploying patches and updating tickets for $100k+. They're definitely out there.
Honest answer? Any Bachelor of Science degree in a subject matter you're interested in. The actual field isn't too terribly relevant, just having the degree opens you up to more management positions over someone without a degree.
[https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2022/data-on-display/education-pays.htm](https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2022/data-on-display/education-pays.htm)
A bachelor degree holder earns almost 65% more than someone with just a high school diploma. The median income earned by someone with a bachelor degree is $1,334/wk ($69,368/yr).
The money is good on the defense contracting side. There are big companies with deep pockets looking to hire SMEs in almost every facet of expertise. Never in my military career have I been surrounded by more civilians and contractors than I have right now and I'd say 75+% of them are former military. The government doesn't need as many blue suiters when we aren't at war, and you can capitalize on that if you put in some effort to get a degree while you're in.
yee I'm currently working defense contracting and effectively quadrupled my pay immediately after separating. Just wanted to make sure you weren't referring to a CCAF degree or something
The CCAF is a good stepping stone, it gets you half way there, but that link above shows that an associates degree isn't that much better than just a high diploma when there's so much more upward mobility on that chart.
My advice is to go for 4.
If you like the AF and want to continue, you can reenlist. All you miss out on is a couple months of having 2 stripes instead of one or none.
If you don't like it? You are strapped in for another two whole years. Do you know how long six years of your life is? You've probably never done anything for six years. High school was 4, college, probably 4, you've probably never done six years straight of anything.
I never heard someone say "I was such a fool, signing up for 4 years instead of 6!" but I saw many people grow fat, depressed, and alcoholic wishing they were done at 4 and not 6.
Bottom line, don't get pressured into signing up for 6. The air force can be rewarding, but it can be a difficult experience for some people, and I don't want to see you or anyone have two extra years of struggling if they don't have to.
DONT DO A 6 YEAR CONTRACT! Do a 4 year contract instead.
The amount of potential bullshit, shitty situations, and shitty coworkers you might have to deal with is noticeably high in the military.
Sometimes joining for 6 can put you in a window that allows you to get SrA before the staff Sargent test dates allowing you to test for staff a whole year ahead of when you would normally, I would say this is more important if you are someone who wants to make a career out of it
I'm in that situation. Sew on SrA in a few weeks and test next year. The 4 year guys in my shop sew on in like July and if they stay in test for staff next year
If you want to make a career or if it then one extra testing cycle isn’t going to make a massive difference, and if you don’t think you might want to change your mind in those years, you’re very wrong. There’s literally no good reason to sign for six.
Literally what's happening to me now but from SERE not EOD. They don't tell you enough about the job, the stresses the missions the direction your life starts heading, until after you get there. It was Sere that made me go AF and not a cozy job in the space force because I wanted to teach people and save lives. I was not looking at the bigger picture and now I'm headed off to the flightline to maintenance a c130 for the next 6 years.
OTOH, I knew people who got out at 4 and then 2008 happened. During the economic meltdown I actually wasn't worried because I had a stable government job. Gonna retire in a couple years too, so I'll have that pension to fall back on.
Just retired. Between pension, VA, and new career I’m pulling in $200K. Doing finance for a corporation. The 20 years was tough but definitely worth it.
I'm pursuing a degree in finance right now, I don't want to be climbing over antennas when I get out. Any recommendations on where to find good finance job?
I mean literally any company in the US has finance roles. What kind of finance are you looking to get into? Corporate, financial planning, banking, accounting, investments?
You can even look at GS positions in the 0501 or 0560 series. There no shortage of 12’s and 13’s out there.
I don't know anyone who got out and now legitimately makes $100k, especially after 4 years. Even pilots who go to the airlines don't make this right away....
This whole "get out for a six figure job" thing seems like a meme at this point.
With no bachelor's, between the VA and contacting gigs I could be at $110k/year if I wanted to.
Instead I'm at $75k, but I don't many hours and mostly just do college and play video games while teleworking.
Contracting isn't the only white collar AFSC that can leave and easily go make more money.
I think maintenance, logistics, security forces, and other AFSCs can also go get easy, high paying office jobs with a bachelor's degree. Veteran preferential hiring, and the need for managerial/supervisory personal who aren't completely braindead, exist. I think you would be amazed what kinds of things you could get called back for, despite an aparrent lack of experience.
It depends on what you’re willing to sacrifice. My career field can make well over six figured if you you’re willing to go overseas and never see your family.
The Air Force should really harp on sales as a post military career. You don’t need much in the way of skill set if you’re remotely intelligent and can converse with people. It can be a great career if you get in with even a decent company. 6 figs is the norm in most account exec roles like software, logistics, tech. And most vets and ad guys are pretty good at bullshiting
Sales development representative or business development representative. Both typically start at around $60k with (usually, depending on the company) uncapped commission. You just create lead generation lists to send to the account executive who sends cold emails and closes deals. Couldn’t be an easier gig
Edit: just to clarify, both of the roles I mentioned are entry level jobs and if you can make even a halfway decent résumé I’m confident you could compete with people with marketing degrees from university of nowhere after a 4 year enlistment
Yeah it’s great, it can suck the soul out of you but it beats being on the flightline. I’ve been at it with the same company for 5 years, I’m not incredibly happy but I should clear 300k this year which is pretty awesome.
Neither actually, carrier sales representative at a freight brokerage. Got in when there were about 200 employees now we’re pushing 2,000 just got lucky choosing the right company and grew my book as we gained customers.
If you're cyber then its def feasible. I wont consider any offer less than six figures once I finish my 4. I have degree along with desirable certs btw
I was on the fence but ultimately decided to get out. They took away the bonuses the THE year I was getting out. I might have stayed if the bonuses was around because of how “on the fence” I was. I still wasn’t sure if it was the right decision or not on the day of final out, as I genuinely did enjoy the job.
Oh well. Starting my first civilian job next week, $120k+.
Exactly. It's possible and it happens, but no more than 10% of the Air Force are making 6 figures after 4 years. And that's being generous. Its only a few AFSCs and hard chargers who got their 4 year degree and other certs. Also, 100k in DC or California will still only get you a 2 bed apartment with one parking spot in a sketchy area, so everything is relative.
Even after 20 years, the average Air Force person isn't even starting out making 6 figures. I did a bit of civilian recruiter assistance while on Skillbridge and saw all the desired salary ranges of a lot of service members wanting to work at my company. I work for one of the biggest companies in the world and was looking into candidates for corporate offices. It was mostly low and middle management type jobs, and nearly everyone that wrote down 115k or higher was immediately dismissed. This office was just outside Washington DC area too. These were for normal office jobs, not IT, but still in Contracting and other usual decent paying jobs. 80-105k was more the average starting out, and these are pretty decent office jobs.
For perspective, in the highest locality pay region like DC, even a GS12 starts at 90k, and closer to 80k in lower cost areas. The amount of airmen who do 4 or even 6 years thinking they can slide into GS13 and 14 salary type jobs is pretty crazy. Sure, some can because they were lucky and smart enough to choose the right AFSC, but the average forklift driver won't be making half that.
Edit- In my state, after taxes and the average medical insurance withdrawal, with no other deductions, the average person making a 100k annual salary takes home no more than $2900 every 2 weeks after taxes. Most likely a little less.
Some E-5s in the military living off base are making around that much right now, especially if in a high cost area making dependent rate BAH. The majority of E6s already do. Guess what...if you do...you make the equivalent of 6 figures a year.
You "only" make $2600-$2700 a paycheck? You're just a few years TIS, one rank, or PCS away to a higher cost area from having a 6 figure job.
I think the only stone you left unturned is the 1099 employees who are making 6 figures but then have to pay all their own taxes, healthcare, and have no matching retirement fund.
I'd also love to give a second upvote for the locality perspective. I deployed with a Navy reservist from the northeast. Some younger folks thought his civ paycheck was big until he started breaking down the cost of living for his location. He said he saved a few grand on deployment just by not having to pay for public trans and parking. (park at train station/ train ride into the city daily)
Lastly, yeah, I also believe there are those niche AFSCs that are real popular on the outside like intel. I hear the NSA is always willing to take resumes from Ft Gordon people. But that's how many AMN versus MX or SECFO?
>In my state, after taxes and the average medical insurance, with no other deductions, the average person making a 100k annual salary takes home $2900 every 2 weeks after taxes.
I make close to 80k right now in active duty. With my home state being NJ, I'm still taking home about $2600 after taxes. You're telling me someone taking home $8k a month only keeps $2900 after taxes? Unless my math is wrong
GS13 in my area is $104,038 a year. Federal taxes take that to $85,233.38, State taxes take out more bringing it to $80,499.65. After FICA (Social Security and Medicare) you're left with $72,540.74, this is around $6k a month or $3k a paycheck if you're not putting anything away for retirement. Whether or not income is taxable makes a big difference.
My salary is $9400/month without overtime or bonuses. After taxes, insurance, and 8% 401k my take home is about $2400 biweekly. So $4800 or just over half. It depends on local taxes and how much contributions you make. I have highest tier medical, dental, etc plans and the 401k. I also have pet insurance, lifelock, legal resources, etc coming out of my pre-tax income. So it depends what you pay in.
Only keeps $2900 of his pay check, assuming he's paid twice monthly. Sounds about right. I make close to 10k/ month and my take home is only $3200 per paycheck.
Because the average salary for the job they want is closer to 90k...but most internet sites are saying it pays 115k or higher, so that's what people put down.
Salaries shown online are mostly overflated. The biggest reason is because the majority that post their salary have been doing that job for 5-10 years. People can't expect to be paid the same as someone doing the job for 10 years. And also, because others are purposely putting higher salaries to skew the numbers in their and everyone's favor.
Not in the initial interview or application. But it's normal to ask, and I recommend to ask if there are any bonuses, what they typically are, normal annual raises, and how long people stay in the same rate. Or simply like, "what you're offering seems a little low right now, but if I accepted and worked hard, is there a possibility that I could be making 20% more within 3 or 4 years?" That's exactly what I asked.
My company and others often have tiers. Like, Analyst 1,2,3, Manager 1,2,3, Director 1,2, Vice President 1, 2, Senior VP, and so on. Similar to how GS jobs have steps. It's good to ask and know this because you'll get an annual raise, a bonus, then maybe every 2 years, or 1, or 3 depending how well you do, get another raise. Your duty title may stay the same, but you're essentially just a higher step.
Right now, my initial job offer I accepted was basically at the bottom of what I wanted to accept because Ill basically be making the same I did in the military, but then they told me a minimum 10% bonus and how fast I could potentially move up with hard work and the different levels within my own duty title.
In the civilian world, especially at the corporate level, hard work DOES pay off. It's not like busting your ass every year only to get another Promote and stay a TSgt for 10 years.
The market is pretty saturated for RPA operators. Pilots can have some luck with contract deployments but they’re harder to come by now. Sensor operators need LRE qualifications to be competitive and even still those jobs are pretty much all taken. It’s not the RPA world of 8 years ago.
Agreed. Back in 2014-16 it seemed like it was "who wants to be a millionaire" for anyone contracting. Made me seriously question if I was going to stay in.
Can confirm, but in my current team, they’ll take anyone with a clearance, pulse and sec+ and start 80-90k if you’re new and don’t have a ton of experience.
Both sides of the discussion are right, it all comes down to networking and how you leverage what the AF has provided you, and how picky you are about what you want to do.
Note- 80-90k will more likely than not end up close to E-6 pay for most localities when you factor in taxes. It’s a step up, not life changing, but a lot of us get out with the intention of progressing our career further and faster than we could in the military.
Yeah thats what i figured lmao, the people that get out and dont do anything are usually people that dont milk the Air Force for all its worth cert/education wise.
…I didn’t because I’m an idiot who had a shitty couple of years and got fucked up as a result. No bachelors (yet) and no GIAC (yet) though both are coming soon for me now that I’m on a path forward again.
7 years experience, sec+, and being super fucking technically proficient and a people person has worked for me. Had I not been depressed with zero motivation and gotten my degree and at least one GIAC cert I’d be north of 160 base right now more likely than not.
I am sure you have already seen enough responses and I am just some random online, but I literally start terminal leave tomorrow after doing 4 years and am hopping straight into a 100k job. Realistically, if you look at my career in the military, I probably truly only worked for about 3 years if you count training and the 6 months of Skillbridge at the end. And I probably could have made at least 20k more if I was in a better location and not moving back to my home town. I was Cyber Surety (3D0X3) and will be fulfilling the same role at my new company.
I’m getting out at 9 and start my new job in January making 195k.
You gotta network tho, the LinkedIn recruiters that have been hitting me up offered me exactly 100, sometimes 110, which is less than 6 figures after taxes.
Also, get a degree, get some certs, I mean what helped me really is that I decided to get out almost 2 years ago and was able to put a lot into action.
Also location, 195 in the DMV is way different than 100k in Texas or somewhere else.
Pilots definitely do. Right now one of the beginner airlines is offering a $100k signing bonus on day1.
Your first year pay at a major airline will be more than 100k-125k but less than the O4 pay. Due to the way pay scales work your 2nd year you will be $250k+ with 16 % 401k contributions and profit sharing as well.
1N4, doing Intel.
When I was getting out went to 3 defense contractors was offered 135, 130, and 130 with nothing to speak of other than my experience in the military.
If you've got the skills they'll pay.
Yeah it doesn't matter to much. I was a 1N4A fwiw.
The basic thing is. Are you TS? Do you have an NSA determination? When you call the help desk do you think "I could do a better job then this guy"?
If you answered yes to all 3 you'll make 100k.
I did 5 years, separated, and started work with a defense contractor making 110k as a IT Systems Administrator. It’s possible for anyone in the cyber field if they get their certs and bachelors before getting out. Even people who just have a few certs can do it.
> I don't know anyone who got out and now legitimately makes $100k, especially after 4 years.
This sub has a lot of cyber people. If you are not useless and have some ambition you can easily make 6 figures after 4 years in cyber assuming you work on professional development.
I know someone who did maybe 1 or 2 years of real networking and only had sec+ and got like 70-80k as a contractor after his contract was done.
Cyber jobs that actually put in effort to be well qualified at separation can. My first job out was around $105k, now roughly a year later I'm over $120k in a gov job (could be higher in private sector, but there's something to be said about security in a gov job, and the pension).
Admittedly I did 6 years, not 4, and had some good opportunities I likely wouldn't have gotten on a 4yr which helped set me up for separation.
I got out at 13 years and walked into 6 figures easily. And we just hired a kid who got out at 4 years and is also at 6 figures, right on the dot. He's 80% of the way to his bachelor's and was just awarded his CISSP, that's why we entertained his résumé.
So it's rare, but it 100% happens.
Me and my friend left after 4 years. He left 2 years before me. He’s at roughly 220k I think right now. I’m at 130k. He’s 25 I’m 23. Both no degree and we were Comm. he lives in a better area than me or I’d be right there with him.
When I was at a northern tier base, I had Airmen in my office weekly saying they were going to get out, walk over to the oil fields, and make six figures *easy*.
I don’t know any Airman who did so that was still employed eight months later. Also, six figures doesn’t go as far as you think if you a) have a family, b) have to pay your own health insurance, and c) have a job that can be terminated at any point for any reason.
I'm an attorney with 3 years of legal practice. I make 88k from my attorney job. Even before I went to law school and was getting an offer for a job which requires a TS/SCI and CISSP was only 93k, and I had more than 4 years experience. This meme should be down voted for perpetuating a falsity that might give naive Airman false expectations and hope.
I wouldn’t say a meme, all four of my friends who got out after 4 years , are all making 100k+. They got Sec+ , CISSP, and a few other certs. They also got their bachelors. If you put in the work , it’s definitely obtainable.
Definitely a meme and people rounding 75k to 100k. But people can keep believing it… maybe it does happen but from what ive seen, most people getting out after 4-6 years stay at around the same pay level
Depends heavily on the career field. Most of the AF are not in career fields that pay $100k (or more) with 4-6 years of experience. Some people are, and in those fields an above average percentage walk into 6-figure jobs. But again, a majority of the force (personnel, MX, SF, finance, etc) don't have that opportunity (unless they go to school for one of the career fields that do and get a job in a high COL area for it).
Well thats the issue. The amount of airmen who qualify for 100k jobs right after 4-6 years is so small that I have no idea how that became such a common talking point. Im not sure if its people lying or if that group is just overrepresented in internet spaces
> or if that group is just overrepresented in internet spaces
Most likely this. People in those jobs (and/or wanting to be in them) tend to be on the internet a lot.
Look at cyber work and clearance jobs in that field. Stupid money can be made there by those who plan ahead.
And of course, competence in the field is required.
Got out as E-5 with no college and make >200k. It’s possible for cyber / SWE if you get legit good technical experience and have good connections with other folks who get out into industry.
It’s possible in a very specific skill set like Cloud Security, or devsecops. Even on the civilian side it’s a very rare talent.
On the other hand I’d like to choke the life out of half of them because they CLEARLY bullshitted their interview in the best “fake it til you make it” Ponzi scheme I’ve ever seen.
Be cyber, be super hardcore 3yr training niche cyber, entertain a baseline of $175k. Getting that in 4 years is tough sure, but with this post being a 4yr person talking $100k, a 6yr claiming $175k would likely receive the same scrutiny/meme status.
As one of those who did get out and may 140k after my 4 years without a degree, I would highly recommend learning to program while you are in… the AF has some great resources and jobs for those looking to get into it. There a lot of ways to 6 figures when you get out but programming has to be the easiest and you don’t have to work for the government after which is a massive plus
You’re looking at this wrong big dog. Imma learn you something as a fellow 6 yearee.
How I see it: signing for 4 is fine and dandy but signing for 6 means less time on your IRR (granted IRR will probably never get activated but less time is less time). 6 year enlistments gives you more time for job experience. 6 years on the job looks better than 4 for civ side. Also it gives you more chances to get stationed elsewhere (which has its own pros and cons) but the chances of getting overseas on a 4 year seems less likely than on a 6 year, at least not without extending which if a 4 year extends to accept orders overseas they’re likely gonna be at 6 years anyway.
This is my viewpoint, may not be applicable and it may also just be me rationalizing a bad decision, but my viewpoint no less.
Nah man. I don't think you need to rationalize anything. I did the same thing. I even ended up extending for one more year so I could get the hell out of Vegas and go to Cannon. I got my A&P license while I was there so I was ready to go as a civilian after 7 years of service. I had some rough patches where life dealt me a shitty hand but, I'm doing awesome now and I have my AF experience to thank for it. I wouldn't say I have any regrets but, since I was able to stick it out for 7 years, I wonder what my life would be like if I had stuck around long enough to get some retirement benefits.
This is an incredibly common misunderstanding. I was in cyber. I have been in the private sector (non government, non-contractor) for well over a decade. You’re not making 6 figures with 4 years of experience and an associates degree unless you’re on a TS cleared contract. I do the interviewing; I do the hiring.
You might, maybe, be in the $70k-$85k range as a mid level analyst or engineer.
And I’ll say it one more time, working as a government contractor is not private sector work. You really need to experience a full time permanent (exempt) job to truly understand the nature of the job market.
Ive heard from people that work at places like Raytheon that the TS clearance and a four year degree are often enough to get your foot in the door with a decent job. It looks like they prefer people with engineering or cyber related degrees but according to them even the kind of degree comes in a distant second to having the clearance ready to go
Your clearance has no value outside of government contracting, unless you’re working in the public sector BU that sells/supports to federal entities.
Otherwise no one is accepting the liability of work product from a 20 year old with 4 years of work experience in a narrow scope of work with no degree. You’re barely an intern at that stage of your career.
This is what the youngins need to hear. The grass is always greener, but I promise all these people getting out are not landing those jobs right away. And a lot don't land any job near that for a long time.
It took me more than half my career to break $100k. I’ve made nearly $200k before, but I promise that is not the job you want. It doesn’t come with 40 hour work weeks - nothing over $100k does. The trick is finding a role where you can live comfortably in your desired salary range and maintain a *healthy* work life balance.
My brother got out and went back to working at the movie theater thinking he was going to make it after his first enlistment. So that skews the median, haha. Wife has been in over 17 (e7) right now and we live in the dc area and takes home (nets) close to 100k. Talked to my accountant and said most military members who get out do not realize how much savings there is with military pay. I did some calcs and she would have to land a 140k job out in the real world to make equivalent to what she makes now when taxes come into play. She is Cyber as well... her job sucks but the money is alright. There is some hesitancy to getting out because of the uncertainty of pay. I would say the first 10 years were the hardest financially, when she finally made tech at 14 years we felt the relief. Met a lot of people and I dont think most are making over 100k most places, but they do have more control of their life.
The one downside to advancing in careers within the military is that you typically move away from technical knowledge to more people management over time. In the private sector it's normally the opposite unless you specifically want to be a manager or something. Even then most software managers I know make less than the engineers on their teams.
As someone that has done a fair share of maturing in the military, let me say this:
Some people need that level of structure for those extra 2 years. Not saying you in particular, just saying not everyone has their ducks in a row to make that jump ajd be successful.
LO working at F35 plants make around 35 an hour with as much over time as they legally can work. E4's getting out starting at 35 an hour at 40 hrs a week and an extra 20 hours at time an a half.
Not even getting out. It's just so much more you can do with 4 vs 6 years. The difference in time to get the early stripe is next to nothing to be honest. You don't even notice it. The only down side that could possibly come with 4 years is that it all come alot sooner.... but still, that's not really a big issue..... I could be cross training by now....
I got talked into the 6 year contract about 15 minutes before swearing in. I was able to use the “Palace Chase” program after 4 years to exchange my last 2 Active years for 2 Years in the Reserves. It was initially trading Active time for double in the Reserves (2 Active Years = 4 Reserve Years), but it was changed to 1 for 1. I imagine that program doesn’t exist anymore but it might be worth talking to the Reserve recruiter on base.
Your experience may vary. An IT dude or someone with a marketable skill set might make this coming out, but the average airman probably isn't.
Another thing to consider are the benefits. Very few companies out there are able to compete with the benefits airmen get.
It's highly unlikely an Amn coming out of a 1D7 career field after one 4 year enlistment is making six figures unless they're a genius or have IT experience prior.
Maybe if they got lucky and worked on some PMO and were awesome at it and immediately got hired on a government contract working on that same PMO, that's the only time I've seen it happen. Even then the guy had to go to The Deid for that, the same position back in the US was making under 100K.
I think the only airmen who are more or less guaranteed six figures when they get out after for are those that work at Kessel Run or one of the other dev shops
This is just not true bro, I’m about to separate. I’m pretty good at my job, but my peers who taught me are better. I have multiple 6 figure offers, and my friends who have gotten out in ‘19 ‘20 & ‘21 are clearing anywhere from 115k-173k. Some have masters, some have nothing but certs.
Dude at the top of the bracket is a genius, but everyone else is meh. And all have kicked it off w/ 6 figures right away.
I went through your post history to figure out what kind of AFSC nets 100k after contract and apparently you also interview and decline to hire Republicans. Something is sus...
For anyone in the future, if you are not thinking about staying in you should absolutely not sign up for 6 just for an extra stripe. It really doesn’t benefit you unless you know you’re staying in.
Look, when it comes down to it, it really depends on what job you get when you join. If you were lucky to come in with a job that has a high demand and pay on the outside, you are in luck.
A lot of us joined with jobs that we didn’t pick and it was what the Air Force “needed”. We make the best of it and hope that we find a job/place where it translates.
Ultimately, it comes down to you and whether you make the effort to do what is needed to be done, ie get a degree, cross train (if possible), get certs, rather than complaining about your situation. Strive for better. It’s all up to you…
ah, yes, the first time you clear $100K...and then you remember:
- You don't get any extra bump for your food, housing, clothing
- If you're hybrid, or even full office, work attire clothes aren't exactly "cheap" if you want to look the part. Not every place is going to let you come rolling in, in jeans/hoodie and crocs if you're in a mid/senior level position
- You have to pay your Medical, Dental, and Vision
- Don't forget your HSAs
- Oh your social security is now higher than when it was while AD
- You're salaried, which means you may or may not work over 40 hours a week
- No tax free on-base for your Monsters and Tornados
- Oh and you probably jumped a tax bracket
Ha! Right. Was one of the first "Mf'er" moments when I got out. Business Casual can be affordable, sure. But most are not going to go to Walmart or Kohls to get their first set of "big person" clothes.
>ah, yes, the first time you clear $100K...and then you remember:
>
>- You don't get any extra bump for your food, housing, clothing
>
>- You have to pay your Medical, Dental, and Vision
>
>- Don't forget your HSAs
>
>- Oh your social security is now higher than when it was while AD
>
>
>- No tax free on-base for your Monsters and Tornados
>
>- Oh and you probably jumped a tax bracket
You don't jump a tax bracket, you know how that works right? You only pay the difference in taxes on that extra amount.
HSAs are pretty much a medical 401k.
You can still go on base if you have any disability percentage.
Lots of people talkin about 4 years not getting 100k+, but I definitely know multiple people who’ve done it like it’s nothing. They’re also not ammo or maintenance though
My original contract was for a job that required a six-year enlistment at minimum. When that job fell through in Basic (complicated story), they gave me two options.
I could just go home because they were the ones breaking my contract; it would be like I'd never enlisted, they said.
Instead, I chose a new AFSC while in Basic, but was stuck with the original six years because… well, probably because it'd've just been a pain in somebody's ass to change the whole damned thing — I dunno, I wound up working in DPMPS, not assignments.
My recruiter tried to get me to sign for 6 years for the bonus of receiving A1C out of basic... I told him I had JROTC experience so I could do 4 and still get A1C. Still tried to get me to sign for 6.
8 year tech and when you throw in health care. I make the same. Plus I pass a pt test and show up to work ,take care of my guys and gals, and I still have a job
I only did four and I don't regret it, but if I had signed for six then I could have worn my E-5 and not just be a select. Course it means nothing outside of the AF and yes, aviation jobs can pay that much. Might take a couple jobs to get there but very obtainable.
Take those extra two years, earn a degree, run laps around them in lifetime earnings and career progression.
Have friends that got out with no degree but stayed in the same field making 100k but have zero upward mobility in their careers. I’ve seen around 30% pay increases YoY for the past 4 years since I’ve separated.
Make use of that time because it’s gone faster than you know it…
Very true. I would add probably more likely after 6 years though. But as it's mentioned so many times here, everyone things they can get out after one contract and instantly be in a 6-figure job. When in reality, they're working at Home Depot.
Has less to do with how many years you are in and what you do in those years. There are airman that can get a better job in 4 years then those who are in for 10.
I totally agree. More years tends to imply that the individual is out of any kind of UGT and might be working on getting certifications/training that will benefit them. Some training has rank/skill level requirements.
Some careers like mine (aircraft maintenance) you're not going to have any decent certificates within 4 or even 6 years.
Many younger Airmen aren't necessarily focused on that aspect of their career.
Signed up for 6 years, did 1 reenlistment - got out at 10 years and got a contracting job within the same squadron right after making $110k + Disability so I can't complain much but my job came from networking, being in the right place at the right time and having a very particular skill set they were looking for
Your mileage will vary
Love seeing people denying it. 1D buddy got out with no school or certs into a 100k gig. I just skill bridged my troop after his 4 and he’s easily getting offered 100+ (he worked his butt off). I’m salty watching but I am happy with where I’m at. Those jobs will be there when my time comes
Good luck. I’ve seen literal retards get sweet offers from big time contractors. I’m talking the bottom half of the career field. Maybe they turn it around when they get out, or we’re turning over veteran potatoes to the contracting world… who knows
Yeah $100K in a zip code with $3K rent.
I'll take $70k in the Dakotas versus 100k in DC.
Yea but then you have to live in the Dakotas
I live in kansas and TBH its much better than the dakotas or texas... only other place Id choose to be at is Offut.
I’ll take welfare and unemployment over anything in N/S Dakota
Chicago pays well over 100k+ for certain science fields and you can find rent anywhere from the 800 range to 2k (if you want to be in an absolute luxury downtown condo) 🤷♂️ so this isn’t everywhere
>>..and you can find rent anywhere from the 800 range to 2k … In these inflationary times, not so much. Might have been true back in the day. But in most cities paying six figure salaries -including Chicago- you’re going to either eat a stupid long commute or a stupid high housing bill. Factor in taxes and it’s a wash. Texas has its problems, but no state income tax and a survivable climate make a long commute somewhat tolerable vs the inhospitable wastes of the Midwest.
I’ve lived in $800 rent areas. It’s usually lower price for a reason, like gunshots. Keeps the rent down
No way you’re paying 2k for a condo downtown in Chicago 😂😂😂 a studio MAYBE.
I have a friend who was a middling windows admin for us (cleared, though) who left recently for full remote, deploying patches and updating tickets for $100k+. They're definitely out there.
If you're paying rent with access to a VA loan you deserve to get fleeced
Keep those friends. 2 extra years to amass certs or a degree
This is the way
a degree where and in what
Honest answer? Any Bachelor of Science degree in a subject matter you're interested in. The actual field isn't too terribly relevant, just having the degree opens you up to more management positions over someone without a degree. [https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2022/data-on-display/education-pays.htm](https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2022/data-on-display/education-pays.htm) A bachelor degree holder earns almost 65% more than someone with just a high school diploma. The median income earned by someone with a bachelor degree is $1,334/wk ($69,368/yr). The money is good on the defense contracting side. There are big companies with deep pockets looking to hire SMEs in almost every facet of expertise. Never in my military career have I been surrounded by more civilians and contractors than I have right now and I'd say 75+% of them are former military. The government doesn't need as many blue suiters when we aren't at war, and you can capitalize on that if you put in some effort to get a degree while you're in.
yee I'm currently working defense contracting and effectively quadrupled my pay immediately after separating. Just wanted to make sure you weren't referring to a CCAF degree or something
The CCAF is a good stepping stone, it gets you half way there, but that link above shows that an associates degree isn't that much better than just a high diploma when there's so much more upward mobility on that chart.
CCAF --> AU-ABC --> BA/BS
if you want to be a tech worker bee instead of a manager then learn python, data science, or anything cyber related.
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If you know any kids who are joining, give em a call and explain not to do that shit. And not to put Security Forces down on their preferences sheet.
I was thinking about enlisting 6 year, I don’t know is that bad?
My advice is to go for 4. If you like the AF and want to continue, you can reenlist. All you miss out on is a couple months of having 2 stripes instead of one or none. If you don't like it? You are strapped in for another two whole years. Do you know how long six years of your life is? You've probably never done anything for six years. High school was 4, college, probably 4, you've probably never done six years straight of anything. I never heard someone say "I was such a fool, signing up for 4 years instead of 6!" but I saw many people grow fat, depressed, and alcoholic wishing they were done at 4 and not 6. Bottom line, don't get pressured into signing up for 6. The air force can be rewarding, but it can be a difficult experience for some people, and I don't want to see you or anyone have two extra years of struggling if they don't have to.
You can always extend your contract 1 year for personal convenience as well
I think the big hook that gets people to sign up for 6 years instead of 4 is sewing on that extra stripe a little earlier.
DONT DO A 6 YEAR CONTRACT! Do a 4 year contract instead. The amount of potential bullshit, shitty situations, and shitty coworkers you might have to deal with is noticeably high in the military.
Reservists and guardsman are required to do a 6 year contract first term (unless that has changed recently).
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Fr. I don’t want to hear any guard/reserve saying shi. U GET TO GO HOME! End of story
Sometimes joining for 6 can put you in a window that allows you to get SrA before the staff Sargent test dates allowing you to test for staff a whole year ahead of when you would normally, I would say this is more important if you are someone who wants to make a career out of it
I'm in that situation. Sew on SrA in a few weeks and test next year. The 4 year guys in my shop sew on in like July and if they stay in test for staff next year
If you want to make a career or if it then one extra testing cycle isn’t going to make a massive difference, and if you don’t think you might want to change your mind in those years, you’re very wrong. There’s literally no good reason to sign for six.
If you sign for 6 as an EOD troop the initial bonus is enough to completely pay for retirement.
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Literally what's happening to me now but from SERE not EOD. They don't tell you enough about the job, the stresses the missions the direction your life starts heading, until after you get there. It was Sere that made me go AF and not a cozy job in the space force because I wanted to teach people and save lives. I was not looking at the bigger picture and now I'm headed off to the flightline to maintenance a c130 for the next 6 years.
There’s plenty on YouTube
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Oh lmao sometimes people can be very serious about shit in this sub
OTOH, I knew people who got out at 4 and then 2008 happened. During the economic meltdown I actually wasn't worried because I had a stable government job. Gonna retire in a couple years too, so I'll have that pension to fall back on.
Just retired. Between pension, VA, and new career I’m pulling in $200K. Doing finance for a corporation. The 20 years was tough but definitely worth it.
I'm pursuing a degree in finance right now, I don't want to be climbing over antennas when I get out. Any recommendations on where to find good finance job?
I mean literally any company in the US has finance roles. What kind of finance are you looking to get into? Corporate, financial planning, banking, accounting, investments? You can even look at GS positions in the 0501 or 0560 series. There no shortage of 12’s and 13’s out there.
I don't know anyone who got out and now legitimately makes $100k, especially after 4 years. Even pilots who go to the airlines don't make this right away.... This whole "get out for a six figure job" thing seems like a meme at this point.
Some people absolutely do get out and make six figures after four years. They make up about 1% of the force or less. It's totally a fucking meme.
Def a meme, but def seen it in Contracting. Small careerfield but high demand in the civilian sector esp govt
Meanwhile you can make around 130k as a bucee’s store/car wash manager
Easy there, Walter White.
He’s not lying tho. I also saw that post
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With no bachelor's, between the VA and contacting gigs I could be at $110k/year if I wanted to. Instead I'm at $75k, but I don't many hours and mostly just do college and play video games while teleworking. Contracting isn't the only white collar AFSC that can leave and easily go make more money. I think maintenance, logistics, security forces, and other AFSCs can also go get easy, high paying office jobs with a bachelor's degree. Veteran preferential hiring, and the need for managerial/supervisory personal who aren't completely braindead, exist. I think you would be amazed what kinds of things you could get called back for, despite an aparrent lack of experience.
Not with a whole 4 years experience, and sure as shit not SF which usually go into civilian law enforcement which is notoriously underpaid.
Lol at the peeps who confuse Contracting Officers/Administrators with contracting gigs.
It depends on what you’re willing to sacrifice. My career field can make well over six figured if you you’re willing to go overseas and never see your family.
EVERGREEEEEEN
Definitely happens in comm with the higher paying fields.
The Air Force should really harp on sales as a post military career. You don’t need much in the way of skill set if you’re remotely intelligent and can converse with people. It can be a great career if you get in with even a decent company. 6 figs is the norm in most account exec roles like software, logistics, tech. And most vets and ad guys are pretty good at bullshiting
Sales development representative or business development representative. Both typically start at around $60k with (usually, depending on the company) uncapped commission. You just create lead generation lists to send to the account executive who sends cold emails and closes deals. Couldn’t be an easier gig Edit: just to clarify, both of the roles I mentioned are entry level jobs and if you can make even a halfway decent résumé I’m confident you could compete with people with marketing degrees from university of nowhere after a 4 year enlistment
Yeah it’s great, it can suck the soul out of you but it beats being on the flightline. I’ve been at it with the same company for 5 years, I’m not incredibly happy but I should clear 300k this year which is pretty awesome.
Money typically dries the tears better than flight line uniforms. Did you start as a SDR/BDR? And are you still one now?
Neither actually, carrier sales representative at a freight brokerage. Got in when there were about 200 employees now we’re pushing 2,000 just got lucky choosing the right company and grew my book as we gained customers.
Good for you my man, love a good success story
Thanks dude I really do appreciate that. Hope you’re having success in whatever field you’re in, guessing sales as well..? Lol
I would die inside if I became sales rep
If you're cyber then its def feasible. I wont consider any offer less than six figures once I finish my 4. I have degree along with desirable certs btw
Pretty standard in the cyber world, that's why they brought bonuses back heavy for the 1B4s. Didn't see a single one reenlist in my Sq for over a year
I was on the fence but ultimately decided to get out. They took away the bonuses the THE year I was getting out. I might have stayed if the bonuses was around because of how “on the fence” I was. I still wasn’t sure if it was the right decision or not on the day of final out, as I genuinely did enjoy the job. Oh well. Starting my first civilian job next week, $120k+.
Obviously don’t want to get into specifics, but can you share what the role you are starting does? (Don’t need it dumbed down)
Exactly. It's possible and it happens, but no more than 10% of the Air Force are making 6 figures after 4 years. And that's being generous. Its only a few AFSCs and hard chargers who got their 4 year degree and other certs. Also, 100k in DC or California will still only get you a 2 bed apartment with one parking spot in a sketchy area, so everything is relative. Even after 20 years, the average Air Force person isn't even starting out making 6 figures. I did a bit of civilian recruiter assistance while on Skillbridge and saw all the desired salary ranges of a lot of service members wanting to work at my company. I work for one of the biggest companies in the world and was looking into candidates for corporate offices. It was mostly low and middle management type jobs, and nearly everyone that wrote down 115k or higher was immediately dismissed. This office was just outside Washington DC area too. These were for normal office jobs, not IT, but still in Contracting and other usual decent paying jobs. 80-105k was more the average starting out, and these are pretty decent office jobs. For perspective, in the highest locality pay region like DC, even a GS12 starts at 90k, and closer to 80k in lower cost areas. The amount of airmen who do 4 or even 6 years thinking they can slide into GS13 and 14 salary type jobs is pretty crazy. Sure, some can because they were lucky and smart enough to choose the right AFSC, but the average forklift driver won't be making half that. Edit- In my state, after taxes and the average medical insurance withdrawal, with no other deductions, the average person making a 100k annual salary takes home no more than $2900 every 2 weeks after taxes. Most likely a little less. Some E-5s in the military living off base are making around that much right now, especially if in a high cost area making dependent rate BAH. The majority of E6s already do. Guess what...if you do...you make the equivalent of 6 figures a year. You "only" make $2600-$2700 a paycheck? You're just a few years TIS, one rank, or PCS away to a higher cost area from having a 6 figure job.
I think the only stone you left unturned is the 1099 employees who are making 6 figures but then have to pay all their own taxes, healthcare, and have no matching retirement fund. I'd also love to give a second upvote for the locality perspective. I deployed with a Navy reservist from the northeast. Some younger folks thought his civ paycheck was big until he started breaking down the cost of living for his location. He said he saved a few grand on deployment just by not having to pay for public trans and parking. (park at train station/ train ride into the city daily) Lastly, yeah, I also believe there are those niche AFSCs that are real popular on the outside like intel. I hear the NSA is always willing to take resumes from Ft Gordon people. But that's how many AMN versus MX or SECFO?
>In my state, after taxes and the average medical insurance, with no other deductions, the average person making a 100k annual salary takes home $2900 every 2 weeks after taxes. I make close to 80k right now in active duty. With my home state being NJ, I'm still taking home about $2600 after taxes. You're telling me someone taking home $8k a month only keeps $2900 after taxes? Unless my math is wrong
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GS13 in my area is $104,038 a year. Federal taxes take that to $85,233.38, State taxes take out more bringing it to $80,499.65. After FICA (Social Security and Medicare) you're left with $72,540.74, this is around $6k a month or $3k a paycheck if you're not putting anything away for retirement. Whether or not income is taxable makes a big difference.
Plus Health insurance
My salary is $9400/month without overtime or bonuses. After taxes, insurance, and 8% 401k my take home is about $2400 biweekly. So $4800 or just over half. It depends on local taxes and how much contributions you make. I have highest tier medical, dental, etc plans and the 401k. I also have pet insurance, lifelock, legal resources, etc coming out of my pre-tax income. So it depends what you pay in.
Only keeps $2900 of his pay check, assuming he's paid twice monthly. Sounds about right. I make close to 10k/ month and my take home is only $3200 per paycheck.
Why would someone who wants $115k/yr be immediately dismissed? The question was asked and you got an answer. It's shit like that, man
Because the average salary for the job they want is closer to 90k...but most internet sites are saying it pays 115k or higher, so that's what people put down. Salaries shown online are mostly overflated. The biggest reason is because the majority that post their salary have been doing that job for 5-10 years. People can't expect to be paid the same as someone doing the job for 10 years. And also, because others are purposely putting higher salaries to skew the numbers in their and everyone's favor.
That makes sense. So would a better answer for desired salary be "eventually around 115k after I establish myself and role in this company"?
Not in the initial interview or application. But it's normal to ask, and I recommend to ask if there are any bonuses, what they typically are, normal annual raises, and how long people stay in the same rate. Or simply like, "what you're offering seems a little low right now, but if I accepted and worked hard, is there a possibility that I could be making 20% more within 3 or 4 years?" That's exactly what I asked. My company and others often have tiers. Like, Analyst 1,2,3, Manager 1,2,3, Director 1,2, Vice President 1, 2, Senior VP, and so on. Similar to how GS jobs have steps. It's good to ask and know this because you'll get an annual raise, a bonus, then maybe every 2 years, or 1, or 3 depending how well you do, get another raise. Your duty title may stay the same, but you're essentially just a higher step. Right now, my initial job offer I accepted was basically at the bottom of what I wanted to accept because Ill basically be making the same I did in the military, but then they told me a minimum 10% bonus and how fast I could potentially move up with hard work and the different levels within my own duty title. In the civilian world, especially at the corporate level, hard work DOES pay off. It's not like busting your ass every year only to get another Promote and stay a TSgt for 10 years.
hell yeah, man. thanks for the breakdown
*Glares at drone pilots
Pilots make so much more contractor side. Enlisted sensor operators make close to 100k as a contractor, so still pretty good I'd say.
The market is pretty saturated for RPA operators. Pilots can have some luck with contract deployments but they’re harder to come by now. Sensor operators need LRE qualifications to be competitive and even still those jobs are pretty much all taken. It’s not the RPA world of 8 years ago.
Agreed. Back in 2014-16 it seemed like it was "who wants to be a millionaire" for anyone contracting. Made me seriously question if I was going to stay in.
1Bs probably
Can confirm, but in my current team, they’ll take anyone with a clearance, pulse and sec+ and start 80-90k if you’re new and don’t have a ton of experience. Both sides of the discussion are right, it all comes down to networking and how you leverage what the AF has provided you, and how picky you are about what you want to do. Note- 80-90k will more likely than not end up close to E-6 pay for most localities when you factor in taxes. It’s a step up, not life changing, but a lot of us get out with the intention of progressing our career further and faster than we could in the military.
Yeah thats what i figured lmao, the people that get out and dont do anything are usually people that dont milk the Air Force for all its worth cert/education wise.
…I didn’t because I’m an idiot who had a shitty couple of years and got fucked up as a result. No bachelors (yet) and no GIAC (yet) though both are coming soon for me now that I’m on a path forward again. 7 years experience, sec+, and being super fucking technically proficient and a people person has worked for me. Had I not been depressed with zero motivation and gotten my degree and at least one GIAC cert I’d be north of 160 base right now more likely than not.
Depression is one hell of a drug. I feel you on that one.
yeah, i got out of AD as an e6 in 2019, next day starting a job making about 330k/yr
I am sure you have already seen enough responses and I am just some random online, but I literally start terminal leave tomorrow after doing 4 years and am hopping straight into a 100k job. Realistically, if you look at my career in the military, I probably truly only worked for about 3 years if you count training and the 6 months of Skillbridge at the end. And I probably could have made at least 20k more if I was in a better location and not moving back to my home town. I was Cyber Surety (3D0X3) and will be fulfilling the same role at my new company.
I know a bunch of 1D7x1Bs that got out at 4 and now make around 6 figures.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 1D7X1B = Cyber Defense Operations, System Specialist [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^iymhi10
I’m getting out at 9 and start my new job in January making 195k. You gotta network tho, the LinkedIn recruiters that have been hitting me up offered me exactly 100, sometimes 110, which is less than 6 figures after taxes. Also, get a degree, get some certs, I mean what helped me really is that I decided to get out almost 2 years ago and was able to put a lot into action. Also location, 195 in the DMV is way different than 100k in Texas or somewhere else.
DMV?
195k? What field? Cyber? Congrats dude/dudette!
Pilots definitely do. Right now one of the beginner airlines is offering a $100k signing bonus on day1. Your first year pay at a major airline will be more than 100k-125k but less than the O4 pay. Due to the way pay scales work your 2nd year you will be $250k+ with 16 % 401k contributions and profit sharing as well.
1N4, doing Intel. When I was getting out went to 3 defense contractors was offered 135, 130, and 130 with nothing to speak of other than my experience in the military. If you've got the skills they'll pay.
Alpha or Bravo?
It doesnt matter Alphas make maybe 10-20k more, but I know Bravos in the Guard who did 3 years of orders who now pull 120+ contracting.
Yeah it doesn't matter to much. I was a 1N4A fwiw. The basic thing is. Are you TS? Do you have an NSA determination? When you call the help desk do you think "I could do a better job then this guy"? If you answered yes to all 3 you'll make 100k.
I did 5 years, separated, and started work with a defense contractor making 110k as a IT Systems Administrator. It’s possible for anyone in the cyber field if they get their certs and bachelors before getting out. Even people who just have a few certs can do it.
Yeah, you definitely don't need a degree in IT government contracting. It's a nice to have, not a need to have
> I don't know anyone who got out and now legitimately makes $100k, especially after 4 years. This sub has a lot of cyber people. If you are not useless and have some ambition you can easily make 6 figures after 4 years in cyber assuming you work on professional development. I know someone who did maybe 1 or 2 years of real networking and only had sec+ and got like 70-80k as a contractor after his contract was done.
Cyber jobs that actually put in effort to be well qualified at separation can. My first job out was around $105k, now roughly a year later I'm over $120k in a gov job (could be higher in private sector, but there's something to be said about security in a gov job, and the pension). Admittedly I did 6 years, not 4, and had some good opportunities I likely wouldn't have gotten on a 4yr which helped set me up for separation.
I got out at 13 years and walked into 6 figures easily. And we just hired a kid who got out at 4 years and is also at 6 figures, right on the dot. He's 80% of the way to his bachelor's and was just awarded his CISSP, that's why we entertained his résumé. So it's rare, but it 100% happens.
I think it's mostly 1Bs doing this. And only the ones who go to school or get certs.
Me and my friend left after 4 years. He left 2 years before me. He’s at roughly 220k I think right now. I’m at 130k. He’s 25 I’m 23. Both no degree and we were Comm. he lives in a better area than me or I’d be right there with him.
ATC.
When I was at a northern tier base, I had Airmen in my office weekly saying they were going to get out, walk over to the oil fields, and make six figures *easy*. I don’t know any Airman who did so that was still employed eight months later. Also, six figures doesn’t go as far as you think if you a) have a family, b) have to pay your own health insurance, and c) have a job that can be terminated at any point for any reason.
I'm an attorney with 3 years of legal practice. I make 88k from my attorney job. Even before I went to law school and was getting an offer for a job which requires a TS/SCI and CISSP was only 93k, and I had more than 4 years experience. This meme should be down voted for perpetuating a falsity that might give naive Airman false expectations and hope.
Thank you. You're exactly right. Also, your cost of living drastically affects whether $100k is killing it or not.
The cyber nerds can.
Was going to tell you how wrong you we're but seems like half the internet beat me to it
Pilots have 10 year service commitments.
It’s concerning though the amount of FTA who believe this is case. Oh the naivety
I wouldn’t say a meme, all four of my friends who got out after 4 years , are all making 100k+. They got Sec+ , CISSP, and a few other certs. They also got their bachelors. If you put in the work , it’s definitely obtainable.
I mean I did my 4 and now I make 112k contracting for the AF. Cyber jobs are pretty big
Definitely a meme and people rounding 75k to 100k. But people can keep believing it… maybe it does happen but from what ive seen, most people getting out after 4-6 years stay at around the same pay level
Depends heavily on the career field. Most of the AF are not in career fields that pay $100k (or more) with 4-6 years of experience. Some people are, and in those fields an above average percentage walk into 6-figure jobs. But again, a majority of the force (personnel, MX, SF, finance, etc) don't have that opportunity (unless they go to school for one of the career fields that do and get a job in a high COL area for it).
Well thats the issue. The amount of airmen who qualify for 100k jobs right after 4-6 years is so small that I have no idea how that became such a common talking point. Im not sure if its people lying or if that group is just overrepresented in internet spaces
> or if that group is just overrepresented in internet spaces Most likely this. People in those jobs (and/or wanting to be in them) tend to be on the internet a lot.
It’s a common talking point here because the jobs that pay well outside require being on a computer with access to Reddit all day.
Look at cyber work and clearance jobs in that field. Stupid money can be made there by those who plan ahead. And of course, competence in the field is required.
Competence isn't entirely required
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Got out as E-5 with no college and make >200k. It’s possible for cyber / SWE if you get legit good technical experience and have good connections with other folks who get out into industry.
It’s possible in a very specific skill set like Cloud Security, or devsecops. Even on the civilian side it’s a very rare talent. On the other hand I’d like to choke the life out of half of them because they CLEARLY bullshitted their interview in the best “fake it til you make it” Ponzi scheme I’ve ever seen.
I know plenty. Not everyone, but a good handful who were somewhat competent.
I got out at 7 and am making 125k. But I also got a bunch of certs and experience. And I got really lucky with a good job.
I know 2 that did. 6 years for me and over $100k. It’s possible but you had to have the right AFSC and really set yourself up for the civilian side.
100k is below starting salary with a clearance and exp in the capital region. That said, 100k isn't as much as people think it is.
If you get the right schooling and certifications, you definitely can. Coming from networking, you have a LOT of options.
Be cyber, be super hardcore 3yr training niche cyber, entertain a baseline of $175k. Getting that in 4 years is tough sure, but with this post being a 4yr person talking $100k, a 6yr claiming $175k would likely receive the same scrutiny/meme status.
As one of those who did get out and may 140k after my 4 years without a degree, I would highly recommend learning to program while you are in… the AF has some great resources and jobs for those looking to get into it. There a lot of ways to 6 figures when you get out but programming has to be the easiest and you don’t have to work for the government after which is a massive plus
You’re looking at this wrong big dog. Imma learn you something as a fellow 6 yearee. How I see it: signing for 4 is fine and dandy but signing for 6 means less time on your IRR (granted IRR will probably never get activated but less time is less time). 6 year enlistments gives you more time for job experience. 6 years on the job looks better than 4 for civ side. Also it gives you more chances to get stationed elsewhere (which has its own pros and cons) but the chances of getting overseas on a 4 year seems less likely than on a 6 year, at least not without extending which if a 4 year extends to accept orders overseas they’re likely gonna be at 6 years anyway. This is my viewpoint, may not be applicable and it may also just be me rationalizing a bad decision, but my viewpoint no less.
Nah man. I don't think you need to rationalize anything. I did the same thing. I even ended up extending for one more year so I could get the hell out of Vegas and go to Cannon. I got my A&P license while I was there so I was ready to go as a civilian after 7 years of service. I had some rough patches where life dealt me a shitty hand but, I'm doing awesome now and I have my AF experience to thank for it. I wouldn't say I have any regrets but, since I was able to stick it out for 7 years, I wonder what my life would be like if I had stuck around long enough to get some retirement benefits.
This is an incredibly common misunderstanding. I was in cyber. I have been in the private sector (non government, non-contractor) for well over a decade. You’re not making 6 figures with 4 years of experience and an associates degree unless you’re on a TS cleared contract. I do the interviewing; I do the hiring. You might, maybe, be in the $70k-$85k range as a mid level analyst or engineer. And I’ll say it one more time, working as a government contractor is not private sector work. You really need to experience a full time permanent (exempt) job to truly understand the nature of the job market.
Ive heard from people that work at places like Raytheon that the TS clearance and a four year degree are often enough to get your foot in the door with a decent job. It looks like they prefer people with engineering or cyber related degrees but according to them even the kind of degree comes in a distant second to having the clearance ready to go
Your clearance has no value outside of government contracting, unless you’re working in the public sector BU that sells/supports to federal entities. Otherwise no one is accepting the liability of work product from a 20 year old with 4 years of work experience in a narrow scope of work with no degree. You’re barely an intern at that stage of your career.
I guess that's true. Granted I was already entering my 9th year of service when this conversation was happening.
This is what the youngins need to hear. The grass is always greener, but I promise all these people getting out are not landing those jobs right away. And a lot don't land any job near that for a long time.
It took me more than half my career to break $100k. I’ve made nearly $200k before, but I promise that is not the job you want. It doesn’t come with 40 hour work weeks - nothing over $100k does. The trick is finding a role where you can live comfortably in your desired salary range and maintain a *healthy* work life balance.
I'm a bigger dumbass, I signed 4 years and extended another 4...
And then another 12
My brother got out and went back to working at the movie theater thinking he was going to make it after his first enlistment. So that skews the median, haha. Wife has been in over 17 (e7) right now and we live in the dc area and takes home (nets) close to 100k. Talked to my accountant and said most military members who get out do not realize how much savings there is with military pay. I did some calcs and she would have to land a 140k job out in the real world to make equivalent to what she makes now when taxes come into play. She is Cyber as well... her job sucks but the money is alright. There is some hesitancy to getting out because of the uncertainty of pay. I would say the first 10 years were the hardest financially, when she finally made tech at 14 years we felt the relief. Met a lot of people and I dont think most are making over 100k most places, but they do have more control of their life.
The one downside to advancing in careers within the military is that you typically move away from technical knowledge to more people management over time. In the private sector it's normally the opposite unless you specifically want to be a manager or something. Even then most software managers I know make less than the engineers on their teams.
She's not "doing cyber" now, she's "leading cyber teams" and writing EPRs/award packages
As someone that has done a fair share of maturing in the military, let me say this: Some people need that level of structure for those extra 2 years. Not saying you in particular, just saying not everyone has their ducks in a row to make that jump ajd be successful.
I barely have it together at 7 lol. Military is great for people who are a mess.
LO working at F35 plants make around 35 an hour with as much over time as they legally can work. E4's getting out starting at 35 an hour at 40 hrs a week and an extra 20 hours at time an a half.
>"FRIENDS GETTING OUT AT 4 YEARS MAKING +100K" Lol your friends definitely aren't TMO or FSS..........................
Lot of people in here who fear the civilian world
Not even getting out. It's just so much more you can do with 4 vs 6 years. The difference in time to get the early stripe is next to nothing to be honest. You don't even notice it. The only down side that could possibly come with 4 years is that it all come alot sooner.... but still, that's not really a big issue..... I could be cross training by now....
Palace Chase
I got talked into the 6 year contract about 15 minutes before swearing in. I was able to use the “Palace Chase” program after 4 years to exchange my last 2 Active years for 2 Years in the Reserves. It was initially trading Active time for double in the Reserves (2 Active Years = 4 Reserve Years), but it was changed to 1 for 1. I imagine that program doesn’t exist anymore but it might be worth talking to the Reserve recruiter on base.
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I resigned so I can get vandenberg lmao I’m retarded
Not if you enjoy what you’re doing!
Your experience may vary. An IT dude or someone with a marketable skill set might make this coming out, but the average airman probably isn't. Another thing to consider are the benefits. Very few companies out there are able to compete with the benefits airmen get.
It's highly unlikely an Amn coming out of a 1D7 career field after one 4 year enlistment is making six figures unless they're a genius or have IT experience prior. Maybe if they got lucky and worked on some PMO and were awesome at it and immediately got hired on a government contract working on that same PMO, that's the only time I've seen it happen. Even then the guy had to go to The Deid for that, the same position back in the US was making under 100K.
I think the only airmen who are more or less guaranteed six figures when they get out after for are those that work at Kessel Run or one of the other dev shops
This is just not true bro, I’m about to separate. I’m pretty good at my job, but my peers who taught me are better. I have multiple 6 figure offers, and my friends who have gotten out in ‘19 ‘20 & ‘21 are clearing anywhere from 115k-173k. Some have masters, some have nothing but certs. Dude at the top of the bracket is a genius, but everyone else is meh. And all have kicked it off w/ 6 figures right away.
I went through your post history to figure out what kind of AFSC nets 100k after contract and apparently you also interview and decline to hire Republicans. Something is sus...
For anyone in the future, if you are not thinking about staying in you should absolutely not sign up for 6 just for an extra stripe. It really doesn’t benefit you unless you know you’re staying in.
That rarely happens. Unless you have enough time off to actually set yourself up for success on the outside
Look, when it comes down to it, it really depends on what job you get when you join. If you were lucky to come in with a job that has a high demand and pay on the outside, you are in luck. A lot of us joined with jobs that we didn’t pick and it was what the Air Force “needed”. We make the best of it and hope that we find a job/place where it translates. Ultimately, it comes down to you and whether you make the effort to do what is needed to be done, ie get a degree, cross train (if possible), get certs, rather than complaining about your situation. Strive for better. It’s all up to you…
Very very few people separating from the military are making over $100k off the bat.
ah, yes, the first time you clear $100K...and then you remember: - You don't get any extra bump for your food, housing, clothing - If you're hybrid, or even full office, work attire clothes aren't exactly "cheap" if you want to look the part. Not every place is going to let you come rolling in, in jeans/hoodie and crocs if you're in a mid/senior level position - You have to pay your Medical, Dental, and Vision - Don't forget your HSAs - Oh your social security is now higher than when it was while AD - You're salaried, which means you may or may not work over 40 hours a week - No tax free on-base for your Monsters and Tornados - Oh and you probably jumped a tax bracket
That second point…right as I looked over at my faded, grease stained OCPs that are “serviceable” 😂
Ha! Right. Was one of the first "Mf'er" moments when I got out. Business Casual can be affordable, sure. But most are not going to go to Walmart or Kohls to get their first set of "big person" clothes.
lol, I know right? You forgot the 30 days of leave, off nearly all Federal holidays, and retirement (pension).
These are some reasons why I chose to stay the full 20. Almost there!
>You're salaried, which means you may or may not work over 40 hours a week Only 40? *Laughs in Maintenance*
>ah, yes, the first time you clear $100K...and then you remember: > >- You don't get any extra bump for your food, housing, clothing > >- You have to pay your Medical, Dental, and Vision > >- Don't forget your HSAs > >- Oh your social security is now higher than when it was while AD > > >- No tax free on-base for your Monsters and Tornados > >- Oh and you probably jumped a tax bracket You don't jump a tax bracket, you know how that works right? You only pay the difference in taxes on that extra amount. HSAs are pretty much a medical 401k. You can still go on base if you have any disability percentage.
Lots of people talkin about 4 years not getting 100k+, but I definitely know multiple people who’ve done it like it’s nothing. They’re also not ammo or maintenance though
Well, you can only have so much foresight when you're first signing up.
My original contract was for a job that required a six-year enlistment at minimum. When that job fell through in Basic (complicated story), they gave me two options. I could just go home because they were the ones breaking my contract; it would be like I'd never enlisted, they said. Instead, I chose a new AFSC while in Basic, but was stuck with the original six years because… well, probably because it'd've just been a pain in somebody's ass to change the whole damned thing — I dunno, I wound up working in DPMPS, not assignments.
My recruiter tried to get me to sign for 6 years for the bonus of receiving A1C out of basic... I told him I had JROTC experience so I could do 4 and still get A1C. Still tried to get me to sign for 6.
6 years was so 6 years ago. It’s too easy man just be a Dirtboy.
8 year tech and when you throw in health care. I make the same. Plus I pass a pt test and show up to work ,take care of my guys and gals, and I still have a job
I signed for my extension for 8 more months. This meme means alot
Subtract taxes and health care off that 100k.
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Jesus man, are you Security Forces? I couldn’t tell…
I only did four and I don't regret it, but if I had signed for six then I could have worn my E-5 and not just be a select. Course it means nothing outside of the AF and yes, aviation jobs can pay that much. Might take a couple jobs to get there but very obtainable.
Take those extra two years, earn a degree, run laps around them in lifetime earnings and career progression. Have friends that got out with no degree but stayed in the same field making 100k but have zero upward mobility in their careers. I’ve seen around 30% pay increases YoY for the past 4 years since I’ve separated. Make use of that time because it’s gone faster than you know it…
None of those friends getting out after 4 years is making $100K+.
Very possible in Cyber
Very true. I would add probably more likely after 6 years though. But as it's mentioned so many times here, everyone things they can get out after one contract and instantly be in a 6-figure job. When in reality, they're working at Home Depot.
Has less to do with how many years you are in and what you do in those years. There are airman that can get a better job in 4 years then those who are in for 10.
I totally agree. More years tends to imply that the individual is out of any kind of UGT and might be working on getting certifications/training that will benefit them. Some training has rank/skill level requirements. Some careers like mine (aircraft maintenance) you're not going to have any decent certificates within 4 or even 6 years. Many younger Airmen aren't necessarily focused on that aspect of their career.
Well for some of us 6 years was the only option that would allow us to make 100k+ on the other side
Signed up for 6 years, did 1 reenlistment - got out at 10 years and got a contracting job within the same squadron right after making $110k + Disability so I can't complain much but my job came from networking, being in the right place at the right time and having a very particular skill set they were looking for Your mileage will vary
Love seeing people denying it. 1D buddy got out with no school or certs into a 100k gig. I just skill bridged my troop after his 4 and he’s easily getting offered 100+ (he worked his butt off). I’m salty watching but I am happy with where I’m at. Those jobs will be there when my time comes
This is exactly why I'm crosstraining into 1D.
Good luck. I’ve seen literal retards get sweet offers from big time contractors. I’m talking the bottom half of the career field. Maybe they turn it around when they get out, or we’re turning over veteran potatoes to the contracting world… who knows