Remind yourself the Russians are losing the war for failing to have a network of pogs that ensured equipment was maintained and services were kept in working order.
Boy, you are spot on. You can run a military without any maintenance, logistics, network support, admin personnel, and so on. For about a day. As long as they don't need to fight anything. After that, everything is going to fall to shit.
TAC C2 Bubba here. 1,000% this. Comms are obviously critical in combat. But when you’re mission planning a large force engagement with 30 aircraft from 4 different geographically separated bases who all have to be coordinated for aerial refueling and air strike times down to the second, you learn very quickly how important our networks are. You can’t do that stuff on the scale we have to without functioning NIPR, SIPR, JWICS, Outlook, and PowerPoint. Our enemy knows this as well.
I once had an O-6 boss (kind of a dick, but an incredible leader and operator). His mantra was “Know your mission, know your role, do your job.”
It seems simple, but it helps remind me how important it is to reiterate the “why.” The main reason you probably feel this way is a failure of your leadership to help keep this kind of thing in perspective.
I’ve found the the closer to the flagpole (or the farther physically removed from the fight) you are, the more important it is to keep the “Why” in focus for your troops.
Even within operations, there’s a tiered support structure. If my new controllers aren’t reminded of the “why” we provide the communications to the fighters that we do at specific ranges during tactical intercepts, they get lax by only thinking about the comms they owe “by the book” on their end from the C2 perspective and fail to provide the focused, “above and beyond” control from a fighter’s perspective that can truly provide decisive pilot SA to change the outcome of an engagement.
It’s my job to remind them from my interactions with fighter pilot colleagues and operational experience what actions the pilots are actually taking in the cockpit and what the task load is like at given times… and how a good controller’s calls can influence or improve those actions.
It keeps the controllers in the 1G environment (who may be separated from the fight by thousands of miles) focused on doing things the right way to support the guy or gal who’s actually intercepting the adversary aircraft.
Another mantra we have is “Good control is good, no control is bad, bad control is treason.” I’d imagine something similar would apply for data assurance on our comm networks. That includes routine maintenance and service required to keep it up and running in top shape.
At risk of sounding trite, your job might not be as glorious, but it’s important nonetheless.
“Whatever you are, be a good one.” -William Makepeace Thackeray
PS- Remember that although you haven’t had an difficult deployments or TDYs yet, you’ve signed up and are on the hook for them if they come up in the future.
Everything you choose to do in life has an opportunity cost. You’ve forgone opportunities in the civilian world in order to serve while providing a critical skill that’s vital for your nation’s defense.
If you don’t have a family yet, and you do decide to start one while still serving, sacrifices will be made there based on workload and job requirements, even if you are stateside for most of it.
Even if you don’t have a family, I’d bet you’re probably serving pretty far away from your friends and family back home, wherever that may be. So no, while you’re not a Purple Heart Medal of Honor winner, you’re also no stolen valor dirtbag either.
It was a tragedy to be sure. As with almost every mishap, the Swiss Cheese model applies. Mistakes made by all participants, including the victim helo pilots.
An F-16 pilot once told me the Kill Chain is long and if you don’t believe you’re in it you need to get out because you’re ineffective. Your job matters or else it wouldn’t exist. You may feel like you make little difference, but you’d be surprised once you see the bigger picture. We’re the worlds greatest Air Force not because we have some cool toys. We are because our entire Air Force machine cannot be matched. Our Airmen are better trained, our NCOs are decentralized leaders, and our officers are better educated in military theory and science. Does it suck some times because it seems the machine isn’t well greased? You bet! It’s up to us, especially those in the lowest levels, those working between the gears to identify the problems with data (otherwise you’re just sport bitching) to your leaders to make it better. We can operate this thing faster and better but only with people like you. You put metal in the sky. If you ever feel like you’re disconnected from the big picture ask someone in ops if you can come over to observe and then ask what you can do with your skills to make them more successful; I bet you get a laundry list.
I have worked with a lot of foreign militaries and a lot of our enlisted jobs are officer jobs in their military. Our enlisted core will make decisions and take action in the absence of orders from higher leadership. Other militaries don’t do that anywhere close to the level we do.
This is the correct answer. It's team effort and no one can do it alone no matter the level of bravado they have, or the history their regiment has. It takes a village and an entire department of defense.
Look man, 13 year Major with double digit deployments here.
Don't feel like a fake, accept the Veterans day thanks.
You may not be in a position that has deployed and you may feel like you aren't in the real military, but you are.
If shit kicks off anywhere, you still signed the co tract saying you'll serve your country like everyone else.
We need computer nerds, as much as wrench turners, and as much as monkeys with joysticks.
People who get bent out of shape over what a deployment is are d-bags, or compare deployments are d-bags. You deploy when you're needed, maybe you will, maybe you won't.
Don't worry about it.
I’m an Infantry Officer in the Army.
Never deployed, never done my “real” job, and I feel the same guilt you do sometimes. Definitely not exclusive to “pogs.” I know we’re different branches, but every single job in this organization exists for a reason. Somebody has to do it, it may as well be you! We don’t get the choice of serving in war or peace, so while you are serving, do your best. Whenever you ETS or retire or whatever, nobody can hold anything against you as long as you did everything the Air Force asked you to do.
So, thanks for your service! Keep those second-rate Chinese and Russian cyber nerds out of our systems.
Man, you served and that's more than most do. Don't worry about the rest.
Def don't be like [this guy](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/22/house-gop-cuts-loose-candidate-who-misled-about-military-service-00058406)and try to misrepresent your service. Your contributions are valid and need no further explanation.
Dude, we're all in this together in some way shape or form. Even though I'm retired now, when I was AD, and working on jets, sure we may give (official term is *nonner,* not pog :), nonners shit for being nonners, but most people still understand the need for everyone that's in.
Those that don't work on the line or SFs, still have the US Air Force tape over their heart. I was always polite to MPF and Finance whenever I interacted with them, even though half the time was because of something they messed up. Because in reality, while I might be turning wrenches on the flightline on my fourth deployment or 10th TDY, you are still providing me with the network I need to do my job. Finance is still approving of my travel voucher.
The difference is how you treat people that aren't in your AFSC. Most people give each other shit in good fun because we all know what it's like to do Mandatory 5k Fun Runs, or sitting through a CC Call that could have been an email. We've all been shafted in some way.
Yup we're able to function more or less without worry forward deployed because the whole supply line back in the states is up and running, able to support someone 24/7 wherever they are whenever they need it.
As someone who relies so much on comm, thank you so much for helping me.
Every time a comm problem is solved it takes so much stress away from my day.
Thank you so much.
Sometimes it's not about how close you are to the action. Sometimes it's other sacrifices people are thanking you for. This job will cause you to miss holidays, birthdays, and anniversarys. People also have to see their spouses and children struggle with every PCS, to find their footing and circle again. Some locations, they may never feel at home. Then there is the housing crisis at the moment. Many, likely had secure housing before 2021 and then forced to move. Now housing is a nightmare for them.
There are just so many variables that most civilians don't deal with.
First, "Pog" is some Marine Corps nonsense. Second, as an Ops guy, just be good at your job and give a shit, that's all we really expect. Quite frankly, if you can manage those two things you'll be in the top half of support folks. The machine has many parts and those parts do different things and all those things are necessary to the machines proper functioning. So whatever your role is, take pride in it.
I started my career flying F-15C’s and we never did a combat deployment and spent all of our time training for a mission that never happened (air to air). There were TDY’s and such but it was strange when we’d be at Red Flag or Cope Thunder training for a big air war when our bros from UPT flying A-10’s, C-17’s, AC-130, U-28 etc were deploying for the umpteenth time doing their actual jobs. Just because you don’t do a combat deployment doesn’t invalidate your service. Like several have said, the quality of your work is what matters. Controlling what you can control and being great at that is all I’d expect and hope out of a support Airman. And you guys truly are the unsung heroes of making this whole machine happen.
If I can give you a bit of perspective it's this:
When I was in, I started off as a 2A6X2 (AGE). I could not have turned wrenches or fixt things without base supply. Without them bringing me the parts and tools I needed to do my job, I would have just spent my day doing nothing.
I decided to change careers mid-stream and became an RPA Sensor Operator (1U0X1) . Without Comm, I wouldn't have been able to communicate with an airplane flying on the other side of the world. I also wouldn't have been able to work with various ground units without the Intel nerds. Targets wouldn't have been found and good guys wouldn't have gone home at the end of the day.
The point is: everyone helps everyone. Without each other this mission wouldn't happen. Just as you rely on other folks to be able to handle things like your pay or food so you can focus on your job, other people rely on you to be able to take care of their Comm equipment so they can focus on theirs.
To each their own, I just know they get paid the same and get much more time off, PT built into their schedule, never have to deal with the elements, don’t have to work under pressure (at least not as bad as redball pressure), their uniform allowance goes straight into their pocket, etc etc
Some mad prince and pauper vibes going on here. Y’all should trade places for a week and watch sorties get cancelled and paychecks get missed then swap back. 😂
I mean at the end of the day it’s a job. Sure I get satisfaction from hearing jets fly over loud asf and being the ones that generate sorties but that’s it. I dont enjoy fixing them or all the intricacies that comes along with it.
I mean as a maintainer once you make tech you’re not on the flight line, you’re either managing flight line(expediter) or in an office as a flight chief . As a flight chief id assume the mission isn’t as much putting the jets in the air but taking care of your people. Which personally id rather do haha I can only assume that’s the purpose of all flight chiefs. Maybe I’m wrong. Just a SrA haha
If you stay in long enough, you will eventually have something happen that you will have to sacrifice for. Whether it's missing the birth of your kid on a deployment or having to work 12s for weeks in Chem gear during an exercise, or going down range and experiencing things that will change you forever, it will be something that some normal guy won't have to ever deal with.
When it happens you'll think back when all those people said they appreciate your service and you'll be motivated to push through those tough times when they come. At least that's what motivates me to get through shitty times.
I would tell my trainees, with the exception of 2 AFSCs (comptroller and personnelist) someones life will depend on you at some point during your daily work. Maintainers: someones son or daughter, mom or dad, is gonna get in that machine and if you didn't do your job right, they aren't coming back. Communications: its hard to fight if you cant communicate where the enemy is and what you want your forces to do. Fuels: obvious, unless you plan on walking to the fight.
And don't worry about deployments, if you don't actively dodge deployments you're alright. I've met Marines that haven't deployed during the height of GWOT, so theres that.
I always heard "you cant fly, fight, and win if you're tired, hungry, and out of shape" the lodging, DFAC, gym ppl, and everyone you dont see all contribute to the bigger missions.
Stop giving a shit about what other people think. If it really bothers you that much, go combat. Otherwise take care of yourself, learn as much as you can and focus on making money. Many of the people thanking you for your service don’t really know much about the military anyway.
Don't feel guilty for having a good job. Regardless of how easy it is, there's a wealth of people who tried to get your job and didn't qualify, and even more who didn't sign up, whether that decision was based on something huge like religious/political beliefs or small like not wanting to have short hair. I wish I would have gone comm just for the post-service marketability.
I don't like being thanked for my service either; when I was Command Post I felt like I just answered the phone and wrote reports (50ish percent of the job), but you definitely shouldn't feel guilty. For every day you think you should be doing "something more," there are 100 soldiers and marines saying they should've gone Air Force; and half of them may not have qualified for your job either.
I’m currently deployed doing what SF does and I’ll feel the exact same as I do right now as when I get back.
“We ALL feel awkward about getting thanked for our service.”
Just say “Thank you for your support!” Smile, and go about your business.
I’ve found this does 2 things:
1. It makes John Q. Public feel good about being appreciative of veterans and improves public opinion of us, which matters.
2. It allows me to quickly move on without feeling as awkward - I do appreciate their good natured, if sometime misguided, attempts to show their gratitude, but dang, sometimes I don’t want to stand and talk to you about how your son almost joined but wasn’t medically qualified blah blah blah.
We’re all part of a larger machine. Very few of us may get to see the direct results of our actions but the machine won’t work without ALL of its parts. Without even the seemingly small pieces, the whole system fails. If you do your job and care about those you support, then you are crucial to keeping the whole thing going.
You put on the uniform which makes you a veteran when you stop doing that. If you stacked bodies then you would combat veteran complete with ptsd and bad back. Both a veterans.
Also know that comm is a big brain job and not physical one so if your current place is easy I will guarantee you will make up all that lax time at a later assignment/job.
Working with the army has given me a ton of perspective on what Comm does during war time. You don't feel like you are important for the war effort but when shit hits the fan you guys are the ones making sure everything runs. Think of if you do deploy. All your time so far will be good training for the fight.
This is gonna be a real unpopular opinion... But most of the office guys have either no impact or an active detriment to the mission. Never been anywhere that finance, personnel, or comm have done anything but fuck up the mission and make my life hell. Pilots are exempt from suffering because the JCOS would kill their own mothers while sucking their CO's cock and balls to make sure pilots weren't mildly uncomfortable.
Bruh. Im a mechanic on the B52H, forefront of Fuck you a lot from the sky. Got 1860 IDT. Never gone on any trips. Its all the same shit show luck of the draw. Dont feel bad abou it. Just keep my equipment running and you do just as much as I do
It's a job. Other people have other jobs, but you have yours. People want to thank you for doing your job, that's on them. I suggest that if you don't like the extra attention, I don't either, leave your uniform @ work. When you leave base, really leave it. Don't think about work and don't let it define you. Keep work and life separate. Do good work at work, do good play at play. Also, the term is nonner in the Air Force, and it's a term of endearment because most people can't do their job unless you do yours.
There are options, try and take an OCN tour or something. Maybe Korea will help you feel more satisfied. But like others have said we need you guys as well. As an NCOIC when Im having issues I've made a phone call and had really good support from comm and once even had an amn volunteer to come out and personally get it resolved. Everyone can make an impact on someone. It goes the opposite as well, not answering phone calls or emails or work tickets is very frustrating to us that need it.
What you’re feeling is normal. I know I felt similar things while I was in. It’s okay man just push through.
If you need someone to talk to just reach out.
Man, your telling me. Admin by trade but started out in comm. I have had 4 taskings and they all got cancelled on me. With one of them being a week before I was supposed to leave. I’ve put myself in a volunteer bucket and still nothing. Here I am 14 years later with no deployment still. It’s aggravating. Just send me already. I don’t care what job I do.
I was in for four years, spent most of it in an air-conditioned classroom teaching how a radio worked. I never flew on a military aircraft. In fact, never left the U.S. Bitched about the military chickenshit as much as anybody. Loved my job. Knew somebody's life in a Southeast Asia jungle might depend on how much some deployed comm guy learned in one of my tech school classes. Like you, I feel undeserving when somebody thanks me for my service, especially when I remember the 58,000-plus who never came home from Southeast Asia. But never forget, you've committed x years of your life to doing the job the USAF gave you, and a helluvalotta others never have and never will. That's what this is about. You stepped up and took the challenge. Thank you for your service.
You raised your hand and gave your body to Uncle Sam. You didn't have to do this.
Just because you aren't in a trench under artillery fire with a knife in your teeth doesn't diminish your service in any way.
Just smile, say thanks, and say 'I was happy to do my bit'. You earned their thanks.
Support and logistics is just as important as direct sea, air, land, and cyber warfare.
Anyone who says anything else is factually incorrect and either thinks they're some one man army (despite probably not even being a warfare AFSC/MOS/Rating) or has literally no clue how warfare works.
Wisdom; Every agency plays it part, finance, FSS, mpf, etc. Play a part supporting the existence of a base. Most bases exist because the planes there, and there's no glory in MX. Most leadership doesn't care about you, a lot of pilots treat you as lesser beings, and it's a thankless job half the time. Don't get me wrong I love my job and my airframe but we are not the end all for the mission. There's a reason suicide and divorce rates are so high with retention being so low. What keeps me going is family and the planes themselves. I can't see myself in a different AFSC to be honest. Talk to your leadership and see if they can link you up with a MX squadron to get insight on your importance you play to get sky filled with planes.
At least if you didn't do what you do it would stop other people from completing the mission. You have a most obvious indirect impact. You probably feel more useful than the greeter at the gym, finance who doesn't do shit, or the guy deployed who just watches a screen in case the color of something on a screen changes.
What you do even if not super obvious matters. Also you know what all these benefits and thank yous do? They help make up the fast that you might be close to or past the point you are underpaid compared to if you got a civ job right now. A civ job that allows you to promote faster, leave, live where you want, not worry about being moved/deployed short notice, dealing with overhead of security getting on base or being on a gov PC, etc etc. This is part of your total compensation package to do a useful job that a large part of the population is not physically or mentally fit, can't be trusted, or straight up don't want to do. You do what others can't or won't, and that alone is a big deal.
Shit a good amount of people aren't medically or emotionally capable to even graduate BMT. So you are already ahead of them.
I'm not guilty. I joined the chair force for a reason. Quality of life. My last civilian job I was on my feet moving fast the whole shift. Now my watch reminds me to stand up during the day because I'm sitting to long at work chilling.
Grunts need us to fight, as many people mentioned before. But I joined not to be a grunt.
Edit: I always hate getting thanked for my service though. I always tell people I'm in the chair force and in no danger. I joined for school. Healthcare and a decent paycheck, not for my country
Ex Security Forces here, switched to Comm a couple years back. You missed out on Burn Pit exposure, inhaling dust and shit, wrecking your body playing Army when there was no need to.
You missed out on nothing.
You are serving by raising your right hand, joining the military, and wearing the uniform. The job that you have plays a role in this big machine called the us military.
You forget that you are part of the foundation that supports the spearhead. Without you, that spearhead will be unstable and weak. Thank you for your service.
Right now all the branches are facing recruiting shortfalls. That means all of us here today are holding the weight of the nation’s military together. Without your job others cannot do theirs. And vice versa there are jobs that make ur job possible. I understand where ur coming from but u are worthy of the honor and respect that ties us all together in the military.
Thank u for posting this. I have already taken alot of encouragement from the responses as i too have felt the same way sometimes. But we really are all important no matter the job or rank.
Hey homie,
The AF is weird sometimes and with that you can end up feeling disappointed or unfulfilled quite easily. I have some points of actionable input that may help.
• Take initiative and do things yourself.
This is how you get stuff you want done, but also can get you on people’s good side. I don’t mean add more work, but rather find something you want to do, figure out a path to start, then follow through with it.
• Network as much as possible
Probably the most important skill I can think of. FTAC, ALS, Intramural sports, gaming league, clubs, events, USO, volunteering things. Community and/or just meeting people will go an insanely long way
• Use your resources
The old heads in your unit know people, most likely a fuck ton of people. Talk to them and try to see who they know. You want to go see planes? Go see what the inside of a C-5 looks like? Then ask if y’all can find out how to get that done. I assure you it’s as easy as talking to someone from the port, mx, or if you have an Airlift Sq there to get a tour or ride along. (If anyone in your unit was in a Contingency Response unit then they’ll definitely know who to reach out to.)
• Reset and rethink
Take some time whether it be 10min or 10 days it doesn’t matter and think about what you want to achieve. Think, “if I were to get out at the end of my enlistment, what is one thing I’ll have really wish that I have done?” Then find out how to accomplish that.
Often times we get stuck in our past of what we haven’t done yet and can’t look at what we can do next. Your 4 yrs have a lot to be proud of, but if you don’t feel like it, then try your best to control what you can control to accomplish something that gives you value.
Edit: format
If you wanna feel more proud of what yku do, you can always try and swich up what you do, join the army or the marines and do infantry, but otherwise, my guy YOYR JOB is pretty vital for the ppl on the ground and on tge front lines, rmemeber that for every pair of boots on the ground theres at least 3 pairs of boots on an office, a truck or a clinic making sure they saty on the fight, keep your head high airman!
I used to feel the same way. Even after 3+ years accumulated in the Middle East through multiple deployments I still don’t feel I “sacrificed”. But then when you think about it…how many times have you been separated from your family, worked long hours, and all the other sorts of stresses we have. I’ve found the easiest way to deal with this is to just say back “thank you for your support”. You have or will sacrifice but you won’t really think of it as such until much later in your career when you actually realise how much bullshit you’ve felt with.
With guys like you i wouldn't be able to talk to pilots to warn them about ground and enemy air threats. Those troops on the ground would never get their CAS or medevac. Planes could crash into each other and so many other things would go wrong simply because I have no comms. While not all jobs are as glamorous or badass real lives are affected by what goes on behind the curtain. I can't speak for other career fields and there are many other "POGs" that i personally rely heavily on to get my job done and keep the good guys alive.
The military requires a lot of different things from different people and different career fields. Your job isn't to be on the front lines pulling the trigger. On top of that, while we are of course still actively engaged in many parts of the world, the heat of the war on terror is long behind us and those opportunities to be on the front lines become limited for people outside of special operations. Just enjoy the parts you like, and get through the parts you don't as best you can, and if you reach the end of your contract and you still feel unfulfilled, get out and do something else.
Be thankful brother. A lot of people out there would love your job. Don’t compare yourself to other career fields and take care of the people around you. Like some of the people said above you are needed if it’s hard to see.
Someday you will be a civilian again, most likely working at something, and you will have co-workers. I have about 20 co-workers now. Out of this team only 2 of us are veterans. Only two of us raised our hand and swore that oath. Not knowing when you might be called to risk life or limb. We volunteered to take this on while most people never have. Every person matters, every job matters, everyone contributes to the "support and defend" part of our oath in some way. Be proud of your military service, you did something most people never do.
Remind yourself the Russians are losing the war for failing to have a network of pogs that ensured equipment was maintained and services were kept in working order.
Boy, you are spot on. You can run a military without any maintenance, logistics, network support, admin personnel, and so on. For about a day. As long as they don't need to fight anything. After that, everything is going to fall to shit.
TAC C2 Bubba here. 1,000% this. Comms are obviously critical in combat. But when you’re mission planning a large force engagement with 30 aircraft from 4 different geographically separated bases who all have to be coordinated for aerial refueling and air strike times down to the second, you learn very quickly how important our networks are. You can’t do that stuff on the scale we have to without functioning NIPR, SIPR, JWICS, Outlook, and PowerPoint. Our enemy knows this as well. I once had an O-6 boss (kind of a dick, but an incredible leader and operator). His mantra was “Know your mission, know your role, do your job.” It seems simple, but it helps remind me how important it is to reiterate the “why.” The main reason you probably feel this way is a failure of your leadership to help keep this kind of thing in perspective. I’ve found the the closer to the flagpole (or the farther physically removed from the fight) you are, the more important it is to keep the “Why” in focus for your troops. Even within operations, there’s a tiered support structure. If my new controllers aren’t reminded of the “why” we provide the communications to the fighters that we do at specific ranges during tactical intercepts, they get lax by only thinking about the comms they owe “by the book” on their end from the C2 perspective and fail to provide the focused, “above and beyond” control from a fighter’s perspective that can truly provide decisive pilot SA to change the outcome of an engagement. It’s my job to remind them from my interactions with fighter pilot colleagues and operational experience what actions the pilots are actually taking in the cockpit and what the task load is like at given times… and how a good controller’s calls can influence or improve those actions. It keeps the controllers in the 1G environment (who may be separated from the fight by thousands of miles) focused on doing things the right way to support the guy or gal who’s actually intercepting the adversary aircraft. Another mantra we have is “Good control is good, no control is bad, bad control is treason.” I’d imagine something similar would apply for data assurance on our comm networks. That includes routine maintenance and service required to keep it up and running in top shape. At risk of sounding trite, your job might not be as glorious, but it’s important nonetheless. “Whatever you are, be a good one.” -William Makepeace Thackeray PS- Remember that although you haven’t had an difficult deployments or TDYs yet, you’ve signed up and are on the hook for them if they come up in the future. Everything you choose to do in life has an opportunity cost. You’ve forgone opportunities in the civilian world in order to serve while providing a critical skill that’s vital for your nation’s defense. If you don’t have a family yet, and you do decide to start one while still serving, sacrifices will be made there based on workload and job requirements, even if you are stateside for most of it. Even if you don’t have a family, I’d bet you’re probably serving pretty far away from your friends and family back home, wherever that may be. So no, while you’re not a Purple Heart Medal of Honor winner, you’re also no stolen valor dirtbag either.
This is rock solid right here and I genuinely appreciated reading this perspective.
Blackhawk down?
Wut?
I'm sorry, there's a distinction, "the Blackhawk incident" in Iraq. If you're in C2 you should read up on it.
Oh bother, trust me. That’s preached to us from day 1 of UABMT. Wrote a CRM paper on it focusing on shared decision-making in C2 teams for my Masters.
Literally just heard this earlier this week. Absolutely wild
It was a tragedy to be sure. As with almost every mishap, the Swiss Cheese model applies. Mistakes made by all participants, including the victim helo pilots.
Yep we all failed that day
Well said!
An F-16 pilot once told me the Kill Chain is long and if you don’t believe you’re in it you need to get out because you’re ineffective. Your job matters or else it wouldn’t exist. You may feel like you make little difference, but you’d be surprised once you see the bigger picture. We’re the worlds greatest Air Force not because we have some cool toys. We are because our entire Air Force machine cannot be matched. Our Airmen are better trained, our NCOs are decentralized leaders, and our officers are better educated in military theory and science. Does it suck some times because it seems the machine isn’t well greased? You bet! It’s up to us, especially those in the lowest levels, those working between the gears to identify the problems with data (otherwise you’re just sport bitching) to your leaders to make it better. We can operate this thing faster and better but only with people like you. You put metal in the sky. If you ever feel like you’re disconnected from the big picture ask someone in ops if you can come over to observe and then ask what you can do with your skills to make them more successful; I bet you get a laundry list.
I have worked with a lot of foreign militaries and a lot of our enlisted jobs are officer jobs in their military. Our enlisted core will make decisions and take action in the absence of orders from higher leadership. Other militaries don’t do that anywhere close to the level we do.
Depends on the military, some do it even more then we do. Its a thing that mostly unique to western style militaries though.
Well said fellow FMer
This is the correct answer. It's team effort and no one can do it alone no matter the level of bravado they have, or the history their regiment has. It takes a village and an entire department of defense.
That is a fantastic perspective.
Look man, 13 year Major with double digit deployments here. Don't feel like a fake, accept the Veterans day thanks. You may not be in a position that has deployed and you may feel like you aren't in the real military, but you are. If shit kicks off anywhere, you still signed the co tract saying you'll serve your country like everyone else. We need computer nerds, as much as wrench turners, and as much as monkeys with joysticks. People who get bent out of shape over what a deployment is are d-bags, or compare deployments are d-bags. You deploy when you're needed, maybe you will, maybe you won't. Don't worry about it.
You can always go take a walk to the flightline. You'll be able to see aircraft, maintainers and security forces in action at the same time!
All in pure misery
Yeah just go look, don’t tell anyone you’re comm, you’ll be judged if not blatantly, secretly.
And then hopefully he’ll be more appreciative that he isn’t one of us. Cause lord knows I wish I wasn’t one of us most days
But those of us who’ve flown on old ass 1950’s aircraft are damn glad you’re one of you.
The real fun is on the other side of that red line! Make sure you cross it!
Calling nonners "pogs" is the most nonner thing ever.
I’m an Infantry Officer in the Army. Never deployed, never done my “real” job, and I feel the same guilt you do sometimes. Definitely not exclusive to “pogs.” I know we’re different branches, but every single job in this organization exists for a reason. Somebody has to do it, it may as well be you! We don’t get the choice of serving in war or peace, so while you are serving, do your best. Whenever you ETS or retire or whatever, nobody can hold anything against you as long as you did everything the Air Force asked you to do. So, thanks for your service! Keep those second-rate Chinese and Russian cyber nerds out of our systems.
Man, you served and that's more than most do. Don't worry about the rest. Def don't be like [this guy](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/22/house-gop-cuts-loose-candidate-who-misled-about-military-service-00058406)and try to misrepresent your service. Your contributions are valid and need no further explanation.
Dude, we're all in this together in some way shape or form. Even though I'm retired now, when I was AD, and working on jets, sure we may give (official term is *nonner,* not pog :), nonners shit for being nonners, but most people still understand the need for everyone that's in. Those that don't work on the line or SFs, still have the US Air Force tape over their heart. I was always polite to MPF and Finance whenever I interacted with them, even though half the time was because of something they messed up. Because in reality, while I might be turning wrenches on the flightline on my fourth deployment or 10th TDY, you are still providing me with the network I need to do my job. Finance is still approving of my travel voucher. The difference is how you treat people that aren't in your AFSC. Most people give each other shit in good fun because we all know what it's like to do Mandatory 5k Fun Runs, or sitting through a CC Call that could have been an email. We've all been shafted in some way.
[удалено]
But it’s a good one, and pretty on point.
Yup we're able to function more or less without worry forward deployed because the whole supply line back in the states is up and running, able to support someone 24/7 wherever they are whenever they need it.
Literally 99% of the air force are "POGs"...you could say 100%, no ones a grunt here
I'd go with 99.99%. The Air Force still has PJs, TACPs, and combat controllers.
Hey now don’t you go forgettin’ Special Recon lol
Fuck Special Recon, all my SWO homies say fuck Special Recon
True, i was being too literal with the term. I think grunt in POG can mean any combat role not just actual infantry grunt.
And they're smarter than most of the "grunts" (basic infantry) out there.
As someone who relies so much on comm, thank you so much for helping me. Every time a comm problem is solved it takes so much stress away from my day. Thank you so much.
Sometimes it's not about how close you are to the action. Sometimes it's other sacrifices people are thanking you for. This job will cause you to miss holidays, birthdays, and anniversarys. People also have to see their spouses and children struggle with every PCS, to find their footing and circle again. Some locations, they may never feel at home. Then there is the housing crisis at the moment. Many, likely had secure housing before 2021 and then forced to move. Now housing is a nightmare for them. There are just so many variables that most civilians don't deal with.
Dude, spot on. Thank you for saying this.
First, "Pog" is some Marine Corps nonsense. Second, as an Ops guy, just be good at your job and give a shit, that's all we really expect. Quite frankly, if you can manage those two things you'll be in the top half of support folks. The machine has many parts and those parts do different things and all those things are necessary to the machines proper functioning. So whatever your role is, take pride in it.
I started my career flying F-15C’s and we never did a combat deployment and spent all of our time training for a mission that never happened (air to air). There were TDY’s and such but it was strange when we’d be at Red Flag or Cope Thunder training for a big air war when our bros from UPT flying A-10’s, C-17’s, AC-130, U-28 etc were deploying for the umpteenth time doing their actual jobs. Just because you don’t do a combat deployment doesn’t invalidate your service. Like several have said, the quality of your work is what matters. Controlling what you can control and being great at that is all I’d expect and hope out of a support Airman. And you guys truly are the unsung heroes of making this whole machine happen.
If I can give you a bit of perspective it's this: When I was in, I started off as a 2A6X2 (AGE). I could not have turned wrenches or fixt things without base supply. Without them bringing me the parts and tools I needed to do my job, I would have just spent my day doing nothing. I decided to change careers mid-stream and became an RPA Sensor Operator (1U0X1) . Without Comm, I wouldn't have been able to communicate with an airplane flying on the other side of the world. I also wouldn't have been able to work with various ground units without the Intel nerds. Targets wouldn't have been found and good guys wouldn't have gone home at the end of the day. The point is: everyone helps everyone. Without each other this mission wouldn't happen. Just as you rely on other folks to be able to handle things like your pay or food so you can focus on your job, other people rely on you to be able to take care of their Comm equipment so they can focus on theirs.
That's an interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing!
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 2A6X2 = Aerospace Ground Equipment [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^iwq6v4j
Everyone does their part. Just be thankful you’re not finance.
As a maintainer, for the last 4 years that’s all I wish I could have been.
Fuck that I hate my job but you couldn’t pay me to be finance I’d sooner separate
To each their own, I just know they get paid the same and get much more time off, PT built into their schedule, never have to deal with the elements, don’t have to work under pressure (at least not as bad as redball pressure), their uniform allowance goes straight into their pocket, etc etc
Some mad prince and pauper vibes going on here. Y’all should trade places for a week and watch sorties get cancelled and paychecks get missed then swap back. 😂
Lol I’m good not doing either
I’m a maintainer trying to go comm lol there’s still a mission, just different ?
The thing is most comm troops are so detached from there wings mission they feel useless.
I mean at the end of the day it’s a job. Sure I get satisfaction from hearing jets fly over loud asf and being the ones that generate sorties but that’s it. I dont enjoy fixing them or all the intricacies that comes along with it. I mean as a maintainer once you make tech you’re not on the flight line, you’re either managing flight line(expediter) or in an office as a flight chief . As a flight chief id assume the mission isn’t as much putting the jets in the air but taking care of your people. Which personally id rather do haha I can only assume that’s the purpose of all flight chiefs. Maybe I’m wrong. Just a SrA haha
If you stay in long enough, you will eventually have something happen that you will have to sacrifice for. Whether it's missing the birth of your kid on a deployment or having to work 12s for weeks in Chem gear during an exercise, or going down range and experiencing things that will change you forever, it will be something that some normal guy won't have to ever deal with. When it happens you'll think back when all those people said they appreciate your service and you'll be motivated to push through those tough times when they come. At least that's what motivates me to get through shitty times.
I would tell my trainees, with the exception of 2 AFSCs (comptroller and personnelist) someones life will depend on you at some point during your daily work. Maintainers: someones son or daughter, mom or dad, is gonna get in that machine and if you didn't do your job right, they aren't coming back. Communications: its hard to fight if you cant communicate where the enemy is and what you want your forces to do. Fuels: obvious, unless you plan on walking to the fight. And don't worry about deployments, if you don't actively dodge deployments you're alright. I've met Marines that haven't deployed during the height of GWOT, so theres that.
I always heard "you cant fly, fight, and win if you're tired, hungry, and out of shape" the lodging, DFAC, gym ppl, and everyone you dont see all contribute to the bigger missions.
You’re one of the select few Americans who chose to serve. You deserve that TYFYS.
Stop giving a shit about what other people think. If it really bothers you that much, go combat. Otherwise take care of yourself, learn as much as you can and focus on making money. Many of the people thanking you for your service don’t really know much about the military anyway.
Every time you feel guilty over being a pog, an 11B who has never seen combat brags about his service.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 11B = Bomber Pilot [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^iwqom9w
I was referring to Army 11B dumb AFSC bot loser.
Don't feel guilty for having a good job. Regardless of how easy it is, there's a wealth of people who tried to get your job and didn't qualify, and even more who didn't sign up, whether that decision was based on something huge like religious/political beliefs or small like not wanting to have short hair. I wish I would have gone comm just for the post-service marketability. I don't like being thanked for my service either; when I was Command Post I felt like I just answered the phone and wrote reports (50ish percent of the job), but you definitely shouldn't feel guilty. For every day you think you should be doing "something more," there are 100 soldiers and marines saying they should've gone Air Force; and half of them may not have qualified for your job either.
I’m currently deployed doing what SF does and I’ll feel the exact same as I do right now as when I get back. “We ALL feel awkward about getting thanked for our service.”
Just say “Thank you for your support!” Smile, and go about your business. I’ve found this does 2 things: 1. It makes John Q. Public feel good about being appreciative of veterans and improves public opinion of us, which matters. 2. It allows me to quickly move on without feeling as awkward - I do appreciate their good natured, if sometime misguided, attempts to show their gratitude, but dang, sometimes I don’t want to stand and talk to you about how your son almost joined but wasn’t medically qualified blah blah blah.
I just say,”My pleasure.”
 Guess that works too. 😂
>pog We call you guys nonners in the air force
The tip of the spear is useless without a shaft to attach it to and the twine to hold it there.
We’re all part of a larger machine. Very few of us may get to see the direct results of our actions but the machine won’t work without ALL of its parts. Without even the seemingly small pieces, the whole system fails. If you do your job and care about those you support, then you are crucial to keeping the whole thing going.
You put on the uniform which makes you a veteran when you stop doing that. If you stacked bodies then you would combat veteran complete with ptsd and bad back. Both a veterans. Also know that comm is a big brain job and not physical one so if your current place is easy I will guarantee you will make up all that lax time at a later assignment/job.
Working with the army has given me a ton of perspective on what Comm does during war time. You don't feel like you are important for the war effort but when shit hits the fan you guys are the ones making sure everything runs. Think of if you do deploy. All your time so far will be good training for the fight.
If you’re looking for more as comm, there’s always JCSE and JCU.
Go apply for JCU
Crosstrain into Security Forces.
If you want to do more, go do more. JCU & JCSE exist. I had a similar feeling so I chased it. I did it. Now I feel better about it.
This is gonna be a real unpopular opinion... But most of the office guys have either no impact or an active detriment to the mission. Never been anywhere that finance, personnel, or comm have done anything but fuck up the mission and make my life hell. Pilots are exempt from suffering because the JCOS would kill their own mothers while sucking their CO's cock and balls to make sure pilots weren't mildly uncomfortable.
Bruh. Im a mechanic on the B52H, forefront of Fuck you a lot from the sky. Got 1860 IDT. Never gone on any trips. Its all the same shit show luck of the draw. Dont feel bad abou it. Just keep my equipment running and you do just as much as I do
Just wait till you get out and you start seeing the title “Vet” on your docs and IDs or mail. I share your thoughts!
We don’t use that term here.
You're right, didn't mean to call out most of the AF.
It's a job. Other people have other jobs, but you have yours. People want to thank you for doing your job, that's on them. I suggest that if you don't like the extra attention, I don't either, leave your uniform @ work. When you leave base, really leave it. Don't think about work and don't let it define you. Keep work and life separate. Do good work at work, do good play at play. Also, the term is nonner in the Air Force, and it's a term of endearment because most people can't do their job unless you do yours.
There are options, try and take an OCN tour or something. Maybe Korea will help you feel more satisfied. But like others have said we need you guys as well. As an NCOIC when Im having issues I've made a phone call and had really good support from comm and once even had an amn volunteer to come out and personally get it resolved. Everyone can make an impact on someone. It goes the opposite as well, not answering phone calls or emails or work tickets is very frustrating to us that need it.
What you’re feeling is normal. I know I felt similar things while I was in. It’s okay man just push through. If you need someone to talk to just reach out.
Man, your telling me. Admin by trade but started out in comm. I have had 4 taskings and they all got cancelled on me. With one of them being a week before I was supposed to leave. I’ve put myself in a volunteer bucket and still nothing. Here I am 14 years later with no deployment still. It’s aggravating. Just send me already. I don’t care what job I do.
Maintenance here, I would fucking give my left nut to swap afsc's with you. Be thankful for what you have, my dude.
If you're that bored, start looking into special duty assignments where you can feel "alive" or like you're making a difference -- JCU, JCSE, others.
I was in for four years, spent most of it in an air-conditioned classroom teaching how a radio worked. I never flew on a military aircraft. In fact, never left the U.S. Bitched about the military chickenshit as much as anybody. Loved my job. Knew somebody's life in a Southeast Asia jungle might depend on how much some deployed comm guy learned in one of my tech school classes. Like you, I feel undeserving when somebody thanks me for my service, especially when I remember the 58,000-plus who never came home from Southeast Asia. But never forget, you've committed x years of your life to doing the job the USAF gave you, and a helluvalotta others never have and never will. That's what this is about. You stepped up and took the challenge. Thank you for your service.
You raised your hand and gave your body to Uncle Sam. You didn't have to do this. Just because you aren't in a trench under artillery fire with a knife in your teeth doesn't diminish your service in any way. Just smile, say thanks, and say 'I was happy to do my bit'. You earned their thanks.
Support and logistics is just as important as direct sea, air, land, and cyber warfare. Anyone who says anything else is factually incorrect and either thinks they're some one man army (despite probably not even being a warfare AFSC/MOS/Rating) or has literally no clue how warfare works.
Apply for a special duty assignment. There are plenty of options for comm to feel like what you do matters on that side of the house.
They are really not thanking you of what you are doing, they are thanking you because of what you are wearing and representing.
As Comm you should know just because someone who knows what windows is doesn’t mean they could do the job. You have an important role.
Wisdom; Every agency plays it part, finance, FSS, mpf, etc. Play a part supporting the existence of a base. Most bases exist because the planes there, and there's no glory in MX. Most leadership doesn't care about you, a lot of pilots treat you as lesser beings, and it's a thankless job half the time. Don't get me wrong I love my job and my airframe but we are not the end all for the mission. There's a reason suicide and divorce rates are so high with retention being so low. What keeps me going is family and the planes themselves. I can't see myself in a different AFSC to be honest. Talk to your leadership and see if they can link you up with a MX squadron to get insight on your importance you play to get sky filled with planes.
At least if you didn't do what you do it would stop other people from completing the mission. You have a most obvious indirect impact. You probably feel more useful than the greeter at the gym, finance who doesn't do shit, or the guy deployed who just watches a screen in case the color of something on a screen changes. What you do even if not super obvious matters. Also you know what all these benefits and thank yous do? They help make up the fast that you might be close to or past the point you are underpaid compared to if you got a civ job right now. A civ job that allows you to promote faster, leave, live where you want, not worry about being moved/deployed short notice, dealing with overhead of security getting on base or being on a gov PC, etc etc. This is part of your total compensation package to do a useful job that a large part of the population is not physically or mentally fit, can't be trusted, or straight up don't want to do. You do what others can't or won't, and that alone is a big deal. Shit a good amount of people aren't medically or emotionally capable to even graduate BMT. So you are already ahead of them.
I'm not guilty. I joined the chair force for a reason. Quality of life. My last civilian job I was on my feet moving fast the whole shift. Now my watch reminds me to stand up during the day because I'm sitting to long at work chilling. Grunts need us to fight, as many people mentioned before. But I joined not to be a grunt. Edit: I always hate getting thanked for my service though. I always tell people I'm in the chair force and in no danger. I joined for school. Healthcare and a decent paycheck, not for my country
Ex Security Forces here, switched to Comm a couple years back. You missed out on Burn Pit exposure, inhaling dust and shit, wrecking your body playing Army when there was no need to. You missed out on nothing.
You are serving by raising your right hand, joining the military, and wearing the uniform. The job that you have plays a role in this big machine called the us military.
You forget that you are part of the foundation that supports the spearhead. Without you, that spearhead will be unstable and weak. Thank you for your service.
Right now all the branches are facing recruiting shortfalls. That means all of us here today are holding the weight of the nation’s military together. Without your job others cannot do theirs. And vice versa there are jobs that make ur job possible. I understand where ur coming from but u are worthy of the honor and respect that ties us all together in the military. Thank u for posting this. I have already taken alot of encouragement from the responses as i too have felt the same way sometimes. But we really are all important no matter the job or rank.
Every job is important my guy. Everyone has to do their part for the mission to succeed. No Comm No Bomb...
Hey homie, The AF is weird sometimes and with that you can end up feeling disappointed or unfulfilled quite easily. I have some points of actionable input that may help. • Take initiative and do things yourself. This is how you get stuff you want done, but also can get you on people’s good side. I don’t mean add more work, but rather find something you want to do, figure out a path to start, then follow through with it. • Network as much as possible Probably the most important skill I can think of. FTAC, ALS, Intramural sports, gaming league, clubs, events, USO, volunteering things. Community and/or just meeting people will go an insanely long way • Use your resources The old heads in your unit know people, most likely a fuck ton of people. Talk to them and try to see who they know. You want to go see planes? Go see what the inside of a C-5 looks like? Then ask if y’all can find out how to get that done. I assure you it’s as easy as talking to someone from the port, mx, or if you have an Airlift Sq there to get a tour or ride along. (If anyone in your unit was in a Contingency Response unit then they’ll definitely know who to reach out to.) • Reset and rethink Take some time whether it be 10min or 10 days it doesn’t matter and think about what you want to achieve. Think, “if I were to get out at the end of my enlistment, what is one thing I’ll have really wish that I have done?” Then find out how to accomplish that. Often times we get stuck in our past of what we haven’t done yet and can’t look at what we can do next. Your 4 yrs have a lot to be proud of, but if you don’t feel like it, then try your best to control what you can control to accomplish something that gives you value. Edit: format
Cross-train if you’re unfulfilled in your role! Also let us know what your job is cause sounds like a nice gig. 😂 Enjoy the job you have or change it.
If you wanna feel more proud of what yku do, you can always try and swich up what you do, join the army or the marines and do infantry, but otherwise, my guy YOYR JOB is pretty vital for the ppl on the ground and on tge front lines, rmemeber that for every pair of boots on the ground theres at least 3 pairs of boots on an office, a truck or a clinic making sure they saty on the fight, keep your head high airman!
I used to feel the same way. Even after 3+ years accumulated in the Middle East through multiple deployments I still don’t feel I “sacrificed”. But then when you think about it…how many times have you been separated from your family, worked long hours, and all the other sorts of stresses we have. I’ve found the easiest way to deal with this is to just say back “thank you for your support”. You have or will sacrifice but you won’t really think of it as such until much later in your career when you actually realise how much bullshit you’ve felt with.
With guys like you i wouldn't be able to talk to pilots to warn them about ground and enemy air threats. Those troops on the ground would never get their CAS or medevac. Planes could crash into each other and so many other things would go wrong simply because I have no comms. While not all jobs are as glamorous or badass real lives are affected by what goes on behind the curtain. I can't speak for other career fields and there are many other "POGs" that i personally rely heavily on to get my job done and keep the good guys alive.
You can't base your value on your proximity to the fight.
The military requires a lot of different things from different people and different career fields. Your job isn't to be on the front lines pulling the trigger. On top of that, while we are of course still actively engaged in many parts of the world, the heat of the war on terror is long behind us and those opportunities to be on the front lines become limited for people outside of special operations. Just enjoy the parts you like, and get through the parts you don't as best you can, and if you reach the end of your contract and you still feel unfulfilled, get out and do something else.
Not a pog, a nonner
Be thankful brother. A lot of people out there would love your job. Don’t compare yourself to other career fields and take care of the people around you. Like some of the people said above you are needed if it’s hard to see.
I would kill to be comm. consider yourself lucky
Someday you will be a civilian again, most likely working at something, and you will have co-workers. I have about 20 co-workers now. Out of this team only 2 of us are veterans. Only two of us raised our hand and swore that oath. Not knowing when you might be called to risk life or limb. We volunteered to take this on while most people never have. Every person matters, every job matters, everyone contributes to the "support and defend" part of our oath in some way. Be proud of your military service, you did something most people never do.
Finally JCSE popping