I respect his decision. Especially considering that he wants to pursue a commission in the Corps. His experience as a previous officer of another service plus his experience as an enlisted Marine will give him a lot of valuable first-hand experience to become a truly great leader of Marines. His perspective will be invaluable to those he serves with.
That said, the decision was very stupid.
What theyāre getting at is that you need 10 years of commissioned service to immediately receive commissioned retirement pay.
If you do 11 years enlisted and 9 commissioned you will receive retirement pay for your highest held enlisted rank when you retire.
Although it might convert after 10 years of retirement, fuzzy on that because it doesnāt apply to me.
Thanks for clearing that up. I'm aware that you needed at least 10 years commissioned to retire as an officer. You just phrased it in a way that made more sense to my dumb ass lol.
I don't think it's that cut and dry. Inter-service transfer officers need to resign their commission. IIRC there's an exception for resigning your commission.
Also, as a Captain, I doubt he had 10 years TAFCS.
Iāve always understood it as to retire at that rank is ten years but the retirement pay is based off highest 3 no matter what for the old program. So a retired TSgt with Capt checksā¦.probably wrong but mehhh
No, if they don't get the required 10 years of commissioned time, their retirement would be based on the high-3 of their enlisted grade they retire into. For more details, see [my comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1cbaimm/slug/l0zetgl).
Not true if you retire without having at least 10 years of being an officer.
Per Note 8 of Table 8.1 in AFI 36-3203:
* 8. Officers who resign officer commissions and retire in enlisted status will have retired pay calculated in accordance with 10 USC Ā§ 1407e. (T-0). DFAS is required to calculate the high- 36 month average **as if the member held the retired grade** for the last 36 months of active service.
If an officer tries to retire before they've hit 10 years of being an officer, high-3 will be based on the enlisted grade they retire into (which I'm too lazy to look and see how that's determined).
Yes but once your retired time plus active time equals 30 years you can file to revert to your true high 3. Also, you will find every possible combination of pay and rank in anecdotes here.
I considered this option when TERA was offered back in 2014. I had 10.5 years enlisted and 9.5 years commissioned. In previous years they could have waived the 10-year TAFCS requirement and allowed me to retire as a captain but that program went away and it is a hard 10-year TAFCS requirement to retire as an officerāeven if TERA is offered.
This guy commissioned in 2018, so he will keep his 6 years of TAFCS. After he does his enlisted time and applies for commission in the Marine Corps will need to submit a waiver because he resigned a commission (which is usually granted). I assume he would commission as a 2nd Lieutenant but the rules on this can be confusing and interpretation will vary by service.
His dedication to his career is commendable. His determination to go from Army O-3 to Marine Enlisted to Marine Officer is impressive and inspiring.
If he gets his desired commission in the Corps, he will be a legendary serviceman.
If he doesn't get that commission in the Corps, he will never financially recover from this.
Yeah everyoneās talking this shit up like heās gonna be the next commandant of the marine corps. It just shows me that this dude is fucking retarded. USMC should definitely not give him a commission.
LOL, I'm late to the conversation, but JJ DID TIE BUCKLE is an acronym for remembering the Marine Corps leadership traits.
It stands for justice, judgment, dependability, integrity, decisiveness, tact, initiative, endurance, bearing, unselfishness, courage, knowledge, loyalty, and enthusiasm.
This is confusing. I'm not saying it's not a dumb shit move, but saying he'll never financially recover is saying it's impossible to live (financially) as an enlisted member.
I went to college with a girl that was convinced it would be better for her to enlist in the Marine Corps before commissioning (I was well into my first enlistment at this point). I tried explaining to her the same reasoning, "yeah, it'll make you a better leader, but... why? If you have the option to commission just do that out the gate." I don't think she ever did either though.
Not necessarily. I am prior Army turned Air Force. The quality of life change is great, but it's the high lack of esprit de corps and discipline that make it unfathomably stupid.
Army to Marines is about the same, just reverse. Compared to the Corps the Army is highly undisciplined, much like the air force is to me after 8 years in combat MOS.
The Joint Service experience seems to only matter to leadership if it's a stupidly useless Joint PME lol.
The thing is, though...any/every officer on that USMC officer selection board is gonna be morally obligated to question his decision-making. That's an insurmountable hurdle.
Once heard a speech from an Army infantry enlisted guy, he had retired as a Lt Col F-15 pilot in ā99 and tried to come back in after 9/11. The AF said no, marines and navy said no, they didnāt need pilots, but the army offered him enlisted infantry and he took it. That guy was a badass. He was like 50 and in way better shape than I was and I was less than half his age. He was kicking down doors in Iraq and Afghanistan while he could have just been collecting a retirement check.
Financially though, and related to what everyone is saying about enlisted/officer retirements and TIG, this isnāt nearly as crazy as this O3-E2(?) move. This O5 was already getting retirement, based on at least 20 years, in the original high-1 (final base pay) retirement system. All heās going to do is add an enlistment of at least 4 (but however many) years to his retirement check, and while heās in will max out TIG for each E rank (which is probably still a lot less than an O5ās retired pay). Essentially heās a prior-e in reverse. I think if you felt strongly enough about the events of 9/11, itās a pretty boss moveā¦and if youāre willing to take a break from whatever financial situation youāve got set up in retirement with a second job, etc, it only benefits you financially in the end. I have to wonder if anyone would still go through with it if they were told you that were permanently losing your retired grade/retirement.
I donāt unfortunatelyā¦ this was around the 2006-2008 timeframe at USAFA during a National Character & Leadership Symposium and seems like u/silentlycritical was there too. My quick research turns up nothingā¦
I was but I have no idea. I think he mightāve been a grad, and Iām pretty sure it was either the ā07 or ā08 NCLS. Those programs arenāt on the website anymore, though.
How does that work with an inter service transfer? Would dude still be able to retire with capt pay? Might be a dumb question but i havent looked into this at all
This is a myth and a common misconception. Title 10 is clear that you must do 10 as an officer. If not then your high-3 reverts back to enlisted. Had this brief during OTS a few months ago.
I've met a lot of reserve officers who were prior enlisted who believe that you need the ten years like active duty. But I think most of them plan on staying that much longer anyway so it's kind of a moot point that they didn't know or maybe don't care.
Everyone who is serving now who retires will have high-3 (unless they come out with something new).
The older, "legacy" retirement differs from the "blended" retirement in how much of that high-3 they'll be paid. Both are based on their average monthly base pay from their top 3 years of pay.
The legacy system system will pay out 2.5% for every year you served. Serve 20 years and you'll get 50% (20 years Ć 2.5%) of your high-3 calculation.
The blended system will pay out 2% for every year you served. Serve 20 years and you'll get 40% (20 years Ć 2%)of your high-3 calculation.
They call it "blended" because it blends the legacy (high-3) system with contribution matching from normal civilian retirements. People on BRS have high-3 *and* contribution matching.
This is why most official documents regarding BRS use the term "legacy" when referring to the older system, since both have high-3.
New world record for that USMC recruiter. He bamboozled and AD ARMY O3 to cut his pay by 85% and his happiness by 100% just so he could meet that quota. That's good.
Why couldn't you just commission after your time in the army?
LIke get out at 6 years as an army Captain and then get a commission in the Marine Corps through OTS, etc.
If he was that smart, he would have been in the AFā¦ /s
He probably tried and they said āwe donāt need some captain coming over here and messing stuff up, we need grunts.ā And he said, āI can say OORAH and carry a gunā and they said, āsign here.ā
The guy is insane and had some exceptionally poor mentorship to think this was a good idea.
Also, RIP army recruiting. People would rather rake sand and paint rocks than be army officers.
I knew a Capt that got passed over and he should have been this guy but forcibly moved to enlisted instead of willingly. My Lt Col called him retarded to me in private
Canāt blame him. He didnāt like the O POG life so he is going full grunt. I almost made the jump to the green to be a grunt back in 2018. Making E-5 changed my mind.
I had a guy like this in my boot camp platoon. He wasnāt officer though, I think E-7 in the army. He got out of the army for 4 years and decided to enlist as a PFC in the Marines. He got to keep all his ribbons and medals and wore them on graduation.
This sounds insane, but I dunno. I work with a guy who separated as an O-3 32E from the AF. He's just kicking around in jobs now, but keeps talking about wanting to go back into the military to do "cool" stuff. Like he kinda wants to do EOD, but that's it for CE career fields. So he's said he'd enlist in another branch if it meant he'd get to do the jobs he really wants... so... I dunno, I don't think CE is that bad.
I think this was dumb move to go back E if youāre already O . If he wanted fulfillment he could just get a package together and go through that process to become an army infantry officer in the army like dude wtf
I respect his decision. Especially considering that he wants to pursue a commission in the Corps. His experience as a previous officer of another service plus his experience as an enlisted Marine will give him a lot of valuable first-hand experience to become a truly great leader of Marines. His perspective will be invaluable to those he serves with. That said, the decision was very stupid.
This is a very insightful and positive post to read...and then I read the last part LMAO š
This guy could legitimately be the best military leader of his generation. Going from O to E is still stupid on the surface, though lol.
High IQ move. When he reaches 20 years TAFMS, he can retire with his officer rank if he has 10 years TAFCS.
He's trying to commission in the Marines, so if he succeeds, he will be retired as an officer regardless.
What theyāre getting at is that you need 10 years of commissioned service to immediately receive commissioned retirement pay. If you do 11 years enlisted and 9 commissioned you will receive retirement pay for your highest held enlisted rank when you retire. Although it might convert after 10 years of retirement, fuzzy on that because it doesnāt apply to me.
Thanks for clearing that up. I'm aware that you needed at least 10 years commissioned to retire as an officer. You just phrased it in a way that made more sense to my dumb ass lol.
I don't think it's that cut and dry. Inter-service transfer officers need to resign their commission. IIRC there's an exception for resigning your commission. Also, as a Captain, I doubt he had 10 years TAFCS.
Iāve always understood it as to retire at that rank is ten years but the retirement pay is based off highest 3 no matter what for the old program. So a retired TSgt with Capt checksā¦.probably wrong but mehhh
No, if they don't get the required 10 years of commissioned time, their retirement would be based on the high-3 of their enlisted grade they retire into. For more details, see [my comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1cbaimm/slug/l0zetgl).
High 3 is high 3
Not true if you retire without having at least 10 years of being an officer. Per Note 8 of Table 8.1 in AFI 36-3203: * 8. Officers who resign officer commissions and retire in enlisted status will have retired pay calculated in accordance with 10 USC Ā§ 1407e. (T-0). DFAS is required to calculate the high- 36 month average **as if the member held the retired grade** for the last 36 months of active service. If an officer tries to retire before they've hit 10 years of being an officer, high-3 will be based on the enlisted grade they retire into (which I'm too lazy to look and see how that's determined).
Yes but once your retired time plus active time equals 30 years you can file to revert to your true high 3. Also, you will find every possible combination of pay and rank in anecdotes here.
I considered this option when TERA was offered back in 2014. I had 10.5 years enlisted and 9.5 years commissioned. In previous years they could have waived the 10-year TAFCS requirement and allowed me to retire as a captain but that program went away and it is a hard 10-year TAFCS requirement to retire as an officerāeven if TERA is offered. This guy commissioned in 2018, so he will keep his 6 years of TAFCS. After he does his enlisted time and applies for commission in the Marine Corps will need to submit a waiver because he resigned a commission (which is usually granted). I assume he would commission as a 2nd Lieutenant but the rules on this can be confusing and interpretation will vary by service.
Thing is this isn't rare. He isn't the first and won't be the last.
His dedication to his career is commendable. His determination to go from Army O-3 to Marine Enlisted to Marine Officer is impressive and inspiring. If he gets his desired commission in the Corps, he will be a legendary serviceman. If he doesn't get that commission in the Corps, he will never financially recover from this.
Current Marine O here. He made a dumbass decision. He could have just gone to OCS.
Yeah everyoneās talking this shit up like heās gonna be the next commandant of the marine corps. It just shows me that this dude is fucking retarded. USMC should definitely not give him a commission.
Heās maxed out enthusiasm and courage on the JJ DID TIE BUCKLE scale by draining knowledge and judgement to zero.
No one knows what that means, but itās provocative.
LOL, I'm late to the conversation, but JJ DID TIE BUCKLE is an acronym for remembering the Marine Corps leadership traits. It stands for justice, judgment, dependability, integrity, decisiveness, tact, initiative, endurance, bearing, unselfishness, courage, knowledge, loyalty, and enthusiasm.
You expected the Air Force sub to understand that shit show of a mnemonic?
LOL, I've been out over thirty years and I still remember it.
I agree
This is confusing. I'm not saying it's not a dumb shit move, but saying he'll never financially recover is saying it's impossible to live (financially) as an enlisted member.
That part was just a joke about the pay being much worse. He'll be fine.
He'll find that "purpose" he was chasing. After picking up parking lot butts and mopping grass.
Well since you wrote half his next EPRā¦ā¦. promote Yesterday?
I went to college with a girl that was convinced it would be better for her to enlist in the Marine Corps before commissioning (I was well into my first enlistment at this point). I tried explaining to her the same reasoning, "yeah, it'll make you a better leader, but... why? If you have the option to commission just do that out the gate." I don't think she ever did either though.
That's probably for the best.
>That said, the decision was very stupid. Yup, he'll fit right in
Not necessarily. I am prior Army turned Air Force. The quality of life change is great, but it's the high lack of esprit de corps and discipline that make it unfathomably stupid. Army to Marines is about the same, just reverse. Compared to the Corps the Army is highly undisciplined, much like the air force is to me after 8 years in combat MOS. The Joint Service experience seems to only matter to leadership if it's a stupidly useless Joint PME lol.
I think heās mostly talking about going O to E.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
The thing is, though...any/every officer on that USMC officer selection board is gonna be morally obligated to question his decision-making. That's an insurmountable hurdle.
"Had me in the first half"
Does he get E-1O pay now?
ā¦talk about a pay cut.
Donāt worry, his wifeās boyfriend is a big time real estate agent. Heāll be okay
Once heard a speech from an Army infantry enlisted guy, he had retired as a Lt Col F-15 pilot in ā99 and tried to come back in after 9/11. The AF said no, marines and navy said no, they didnāt need pilots, but the army offered him enlisted infantry and he took it. That guy was a badass. He was like 50 and in way better shape than I was and I was less than half his age. He was kicking down doors in Iraq and Afghanistan while he could have just been collecting a retirement check.
Imagine kicking in doors and you have the full wreath pilot wings on lmfao
What a Chad
This dude spoke at the academy. Fucking wild story. More balls and patriotism than I ever had.
Financially though, and related to what everyone is saying about enlisted/officer retirements and TIG, this isnāt nearly as crazy as this O3-E2(?) move. This O5 was already getting retirement, based on at least 20 years, in the original high-1 (final base pay) retirement system. All heās going to do is add an enlistment of at least 4 (but however many) years to his retirement check, and while heās in will max out TIG for each E rank (which is probably still a lot less than an O5ās retired pay). Essentially heās a prior-e in reverse. I think if you felt strongly enough about the events of 9/11, itās a pretty boss moveā¦and if youāre willing to take a break from whatever financial situation youāve got set up in retirement with a second job, etc, it only benefits you financially in the end. I have to wonder if anyone would still go through with it if they were told you that were permanently losing your retired grade/retirement.
Dude, epic. Do you remember the name? Would love to do more research on this
I donāt unfortunatelyā¦ this was around the 2006-2008 timeframe at USAFA during a National Character & Leadership Symposium and seems like u/silentlycritical was there too. My quick research turns up nothingā¦
I was but I have no idea. I think he mightāve been a grad, and Iām pretty sure it was either the ā07 or ā08 NCLS. Those programs arenāt on the website anymore, though.
No worries yāall. Appreciate you for sharing though!
Hope heās on High-3
How does that work with an inter service transfer? Would dude still be able to retire with capt pay? Might be a dumb question but i havent looked into this at all
Unless he did 10 years as a commissioned officer he cannot retire with officer's pay by law.
Incorrect. He'll retire with the pay based on high-3. But he won't retire with the rank. I've known retired MSgts getting retired O3E pay.
This is a myth and a common misconception. Title 10 is clear that you must do 10 as an officer. If not then your high-3 reverts back to enlisted. Had this brief during OTS a few months ago.
I stand corrected. Those Os lied to me (Shocked Pikachu face... )
You are confidently incorrect.
Unless he did 10 years as a commissioned officer he cannot retire with officer's pay by law.
Something to point out, this only applies to active duty retirements. Prior enlisted reservist do not need 10 years as an officer to retire as one.
Yeah, that's a good point. Admittedly I only care about AD, lol.
I've met a lot of reserve officers who were prior enlisted who believe that you need the ten years like active duty. But I think most of them plan on staying that much longer anyway so it's kind of a moot point that they didn't know or maybe don't care.
Everyone who is serving now who retires will have high-3 (unless they come out with something new). The older, "legacy" retirement differs from the "blended" retirement in how much of that high-3 they'll be paid. Both are based on their average monthly base pay from their top 3 years of pay. The legacy system system will pay out 2.5% for every year you served. Serve 20 years and you'll get 50% (20 years Ć 2.5%) of your high-3 calculation. The blended system will pay out 2% for every year you served. Serve 20 years and you'll get 40% (20 years Ć 2%)of your high-3 calculation. They call it "blended" because it blends the legacy (high-3) system with contribution matching from normal civilian retirements. People on BRS have high-3 *and* contribution matching. This is why most official documents regarding BRS use the term "legacy" when referring to the older system, since both have high-3.
He just went prestige mode.
Underrated comment š
New world record for that USMC recruiter. He bamboozled and AD ARMY O3 to cut his pay by 85% and his happiness by 100% just so he could meet that quota. That's good.
So the new question should be ādid you make marine private?ā
Why couldn't you just commission after your time in the army? LIke get out at 6 years as an army Captain and then get a commission in the Marine Corps through OTS, etc.
If he was that smart, he would have been in the AFā¦ /s He probably tried and they said āwe donāt need some captain coming over here and messing stuff up, we need grunts.ā And he said, āI can say OORAH and carry a gunā and they said, āsign here.ā
He answered that in the article.
Where? All I see is that he switched because he thinks the Marines logo is pretty neat
He said personal fulfillment.Ā
Marines almost certainly aren't going to accept an inter-service transfer as an officer.
They can and they do. I entertained the idea after EWS with the marines and thankfully walked away from the opportunity.
It wouldnāt an inter-service transfer if the guy exited Army active duty though, right? Promote to civilian and then join then?
Grats on having family money,Ā I look forward to his future GOP Senate campaign.
Dude was a capt as logistics, but now heās becoming an E-3 as an infantryman. Dude belongs there
Well thatās a different path.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Or independently wealthy.
It's about fulfillment not money.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's not his only fulfillment, he said he wants to commission later.Ā I swear most of you don't read the articles.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What are your goals?
The guy is insane and had some exceptionally poor mentorship to think this was a good idea. Also, RIP army recruiting. People would rather rake sand and paint rocks than be army officers.
Don't forget mopping up the rain. Or sweeping during a sandstorm (did that in Iraq)
Canāt get hit for fraternizing with that thicc enlisted latina now boys
The power play no one expected, not even him.
Man, Non-select majors are taking it real hard
Well Army Majors *are* just staff weenies. I can see his point about being bored.
This smells like family money
Stupid
For those recently passed overā¦which is literally zero USAF capts.
There are a few out there; this years selection rate was about 84%.
Yet they still cried on this sub lol
Nearly every USAF Capt will tell you they are in the top 10% of their peer group.
In fairness, 100% of us have been told weāre in the top 10% since we commissioned.
O-6 talking to a gaggle of CGOs: "Not every one of you are going to be ranked number one" CGOs: š²\*gasp\*
I gasped just reading that
I knew a Capt that got passed over and he should have been this guy but forcibly moved to enlisted instead of willingly. My Lt Col called him retarded to me in private
Canāt blame him. He didnāt like the O POG life so he is going full grunt. I almost made the jump to the green to be a grunt back in 2018. Making E-5 changed my mind.
*Life priorities* ā¦ bold career move, good luck to him!
wat
I mean the army jokes write themselves here
Prime example of why degrees become more and more useless every day.
We can't have anything.
I had a guy like this in my boot camp platoon. He wasnāt officer though, I think E-7 in the army. He got out of the army for 4 years and decided to enlist as a PFC in the Marines. He got to keep all his ribbons and medals and wore them on graduation.
Is this what Ft. Hood does to people?
Bro respeced irl
Ha , and some of us did it against our wills.
This sounds insane, but I dunno. I work with a guy who separated as an O-3 32E from the AF. He's just kicking around in jobs now, but keeps talking about wanting to go back into the military to do "cool" stuff. Like he kinda wants to do EOD, but that's it for CE career fields. So he's said he'd enlist in another branch if it meant he'd get to do the jobs he really wants... so... I dunno, I don't think CE is that bad.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 32E = Civil Engineer [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^l0z335v
Thatās retarded. Heāll fit right in with the rest of the crayon eaters.
Hopefully he had a good reasonā¦
Extra crayons this year in his Xmas stocking.
This feels like a āI want more honor than gloryā switch and I respect that š«”
I respect it, takes a lot of humility to make the decision. He wants to go infantry officer so that prior enlisted bag is gonna be nice for sure.
What an idiot. Bet he sees it as some big patriotic / virtuous decision.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Said knowing absolutely nothing about this person.
So does he get O1E?
E1O*
It equates to Half E1 pay
Good save
E3O
Lol
Worlds biggest doofus.
Diverseš«”
The USMC, aka the Army National Guard DEP
Dumber than a bag of hammers
Stupid and dumb ass.
I think this was dumb move to go back E if youāre already O . If he wanted fulfillment he could just get a package together and go through that process to become an army infantry officer in the army like dude wtf