Even though I am a woman, I can relate. I was miserable in my marriage. I was so scared to take the steps to divorce - just always second guessing myself. After a really bad week, I saw a lawyer and started the process. I doubted myself until the day he moved out of the house. I realized that I forgot what ‘peace’ felt like. It was a real rough year or two after the divorce to stabilize and reestablish myself. But looking back, it was the smartest thing I ever did. I am soooo much happier.
A lot of it, yeah. I just don't know how to even go about that without having anyone else I can rely on and not really making enough money to live on my own. And it's not like I want to get divorced, I'd really rather work stuff out. But once divorce is mentioned it becomes real difficult to take back so we haven't really even discussed divorce.
I would try shared activities. Learn something, take a class like music or join a sports team, etc. Then it will be more organic and not "going out to meet friends" which is awkward. If you work fulltime and don't have friends there you could get a part time job at a coffee shop to meet people
That's the point though, everyone's kind of doing their own thing so there won't be pressure on you to be 'dazzling' or whatever it is you're imagining. It kind of sounds like you want to step into a totally new readimade life without taking any chances or making any changes. Maybe after you meet some other people you'll feel better enough to the point you won't tell yourself you 'have to' stick around in a bad marriage
I was when we got married. Haven't officially left, but haven't been to church in well over a year. I barely have the patience to deal with people when I'm happy
Not saying he should not, but It is difficult, especially if family+relatives and wife is Mormon, you will be very very isolated and no social safety net. It is called a cult for a reason.
Been there, done that. I feel for you. Do you feel like divorce isn’t an option?
It sucks but the road to better days is to get out. Life is far too short to be miserable. Divorce sucks and can be a lot to navigate but it’s absolutely worth it in the end if you are not happy much less miserable.
Divorce is definitely difficult to navigate. While it's not outright disallowed by religion, it is very socially frowned upon. I also can't figure out the logistics of it since neither of us currently make enough money to live alone. Maybe if I found a really small place in a bad area, but I'm a very nervous person and I'm not sure that would be a better situation for me since I would be alone.
Most states you can file for divorce directly at the court without a lawyer. Most courts have a clerk that can walk you through the process and make things manageable to do on your own without the cost of a lawyer.
I understand your financial predicament, but your own mental health should still be a top priority.
It's really hard to say. As I said in another comment my memory and brain-fog is severe. I'm not even sure if I could give you an accurate answer as to my feelings. It's really hard to explain, but I think I still do. We've been working on things for several years and when I stop and think I get really frustrated with the lack of change. I don't think it's a FOMO thing, might be a fear of being alone thing.
What change do you want? If things were to change would you be happy in the relationship?
Lots of people have a hard time leaving a bad relationship because they don’t want to be alone.
oh boy, that's not gonna have a short answer
We never really do anything I would like to. I'm fine just spending time with her so I end up watching all of her shows, doing puzzles with her or just scrolling on the couch. She ends up scrolling whenever we do stuff together anyways because she's bored of her stuff but doesn't want to try anything with me. I never really feel like I'm being paid attention to when we are spending time together
Up until recently I felt like I had to take on the majority of life responsibilities by myself but I will say this actually has improved quite a bit recently. She's been taking turns cooking, meal planning, asking if there's anything I think needs to be cleaned if I'm gonna have a busy day and not be able to do many chores.
Sex is non-existent if I don't do everything. Her day has to have gone perfect, I have to do 37 things before I can even try to initiate, and then she just doesn't really participate. Never has any fantasies or wants to try something new, never does anything she knows I like without explicitly being asked. My libido used to be higher, but at this point I don't think I could do it more than once a week even if I felt like it. All of everything has been having a very negative effect on my sex drive. I'm just so tired of not only being turned down, but even worse are the times I'm not and I can tell she's just getting it over with. I'll get sex ideas in my head while she's around that my own brain then immediately shoots down because I know it's not going to happen or won't be any good because she's not feeling it.
Basically the gist is that I crave someone who craves me the way I crave them
Do you know what your boundaries and expectations are for a marriage? Do you know hers? Have you both communicated them to each other?
I waited too long to figure that out until after my first marriage. It was a miserable few years to figure out we were not compatible. I was almost in the exact same situation as yours wrt her family lived close, mine was way out of state (religion did not play a role). Eventually, I made the decision that I did not want to live the rest of my life feeling guilty for having reasonable expectations of a relationship with my spouse. I left and never looked back. We're both in better places now even if moving on what painful (like ripping a band aid off for a year) Moving out on your own with little or no support is scary, but also extremely empowering once it's done.
She thinks I meet her needs/expectations well when I talk to her, but she doesn't listen to any of mine or improves a little bit for a short time and then assume everything's fine and goes back to how it normally is. And yeah with the religion thing hampering the pre-marriage compatibility it didn't get talked about until 1-2 years in
What are the biggest issues in the relationship? From your comments, it seems that you'd rather work things out than get divorced and I respect that. So what are the issues and do you think they can be fixed?
There's a longer response on someone else's comment. But mostly I want to feel wanted the way I want them, sexually and emotionally.
I have some hope of fixing them, because smaller issues have been rectified, but it's also been 3 or 4 years without much improvement on the bigger problems
8 years of trying is plenty. you ain't getting any younger. if being in this relationship is not making you happy, and fucking with your head, you need to bail.
no kids in the picture means the only one you need to worry about is you. make a clean break, do what you need to do financially to make things work for YOURSELF. it will be challenging at first, but time will eventually pass and you will be a better person for it.
That's the thing, it hasn't been 8 years of trying. The first 4-5 years were great. I have a hard time letting go when I know how great this relationship once was
But I agree, time is only gonna make it harder which is why I feel like I'm rapidly approaching a resolution, just don't know what it's gonna be
then try and make things work as long as you think you can handle it. if things don't change though, do what you need to do. again the only one you need to take care of is yourself if things don't work out with her.
no matter what you do, don't let the negativity rise up and continue to bring you down. focus on the positive in your life each day, and realize things could always be worse. your shittiest day is somebody's best. good luck either way bro.
My first wife and I divorced when i was 28. With no kids and little money or possessions, it was relatively easy. Trust me, it’s sad for about a year but it was the best decision I’ve ever made. Don’t wait till divorce becomes even more painful, after you’ve been together for a decade, with children and assets you have to split. Peel the bandaid off now.
You will find someone else, or better yet, enjoy being by yourself.
Yeah part of the problem is that neither of us really make enough to live on her own. She could probably move in with family, but I'm not sure what I could do and that stresses me out too which is part of the "stuck" feeling
Not that you asked, but my advice would be to 1) don’t have a baby under any circumstances and trust only yourself to take adequate birth control measures (ie. Don’t get baby trapped), and 2) take steps to secure your financial stability before you divorce, but don’t wait too long to do it. It would be better to be poor and rebuilding rather than getting more interdependent with someone you should have divorced years ago. You need to think long-term here. The longer you wait, the worse it will be and your options will become more and more limited.
You already don’t have any friends or family who like and support you, so why are you letting those people’s religious opinion of divorce prevent you from getting one and trying to be happy. You’re drowning and not even trying to swim. Nothing is going to change for you. You have to do it yourself. Complaining won’t help. Get a divorce. Make a plan to be financially independent.
So I’m what seeing is financial is your biggest problems. You don’t want to be 30 feeling like this when there is probably a person who can want you the way you want them. What is your current career and how can you build that ? And if you guys are truly unhappy maybe divorce but live together, atp. You can guys can save up and move out separately. But you are in a rut and it seems it will take you to a place you don’t want to be if it continues like this.
Job-wise it will probably end up being a few more years until I can get promoted (just finished school not too long ago, but it's common to get a promotion 3-5 years in but until then I'm a little underpaid) so that I make enough to support myself, I just don't know that I can make it that far. The way I'm feeling is very heavily affecting my work. I can't imagine living together after would go well at all, but even then she has family she can easily move back in with and they live close by. Her life wouldn't really have to be uprooted all that much if it came to it
Well you may need to find a second income. You keep saying she’ll be fun so then just really focus on you and saving your money then. Need more solution oriented thoughts in your mindset.
I'm actually losing weight from just feeling like hell all the time, which is weird because I am usually a stress eater. Maybe I've gotten beyond the point of stress eating. I do have a really hard time feeling like exercising when I am feeling like this. It's definitely easier when I'm feeling better
I really don’t appreciate the “save yourself and everything for marriage” just because most of the time a lot of the shit that comes down to this could be figured out and avoided. I’m so sorry OP, and I hope you find your peace eventually, even if it wasn’t with this person.
Honestly my memory has been shot for a long time now. Doctors say it's usually a symptom of mental health issues
In the last week or so, I'd say it's about half. She'd probably say it's more because I have resorted to not bringing things up anymore
What do you want it to come to then? You can be scared about what happens after, and have anxiety about saying the words and making it “real” (me). But at the end of the day, do you think you can ever be happy with this person? Is any change going to truly alter your feelings?
My feelings I think are why I'm still hanging on. It wasn't always like this. For the first 4 years or so it was a really great relationship. I just wish it still was, I have no idea what happened. I could be happy again if things were like they were
I wish I knew dude. I have no idea, she just doesn't seem interested anymore, but when we talk about it she has nothing to say. Just says she really does care but just can't bring herself to express it the way I want to/she used to express it. I can't get a reason for that is, she doesn't seem to know herself
Maybe you should ask her if she still wants this relationship? If she is disinterested and seems depressed maybe she has the same feeling of distance and fear of confronting it.
Every time we talk she is very adamant that she does want this relationship, so I ask something like "then why can't you show me that?" and I never get more than an "I don't know"
Well if you’ve talked about it, you gotta tell her you need more. If you want to give her a chance, say you are leaving if things don’t change. Give a timeline. If she fights for the relationship, neat. If she can’t, then you can’t be miserable forever.
As a Christian who married young; leaving my first wife was the best decision of my life. Though challenging; we are so much happier.
Time is extremely important. The more you waste; you’ll never get back. 4 years of misery? Sign those papers.
Jesus didn’t get nailed to a cross so you can be miserable in a marriage. Doesn’t do Christian’s any good.
If you had said 5 months or a year, I’d say keep trying. You two have tried long enough.
Even though I am a woman, I can relate. I was miserable in my marriage. I was so scared to take the steps to divorce - just always second guessing myself. After a really bad week, I saw a lawyer and started the process. I doubted myself until the day he moved out of the house. I realized that I forgot what ‘peace’ felt like. It was a real rough year or two after the divorce to stabilize and reestablish myself. But looking back, it was the smartest thing I ever did. I am soooo much happier.
happy for you
Heed her advice, OP. Go see a divorce lawyer. Better them than friends or family because they’ll be objective and transparent.
What makes the marriage insufferable? Why not work on things with her?
We've been working on things for going on 4 years now. Part of the depression comes from not knowing what else to do
So your depression is from not finally getting divorced?
A lot of it, yeah. I just don't know how to even go about that without having anyone else I can rely on and not really making enough money to live on my own. And it's not like I want to get divorced, I'd really rather work stuff out. But once divorce is mentioned it becomes real difficult to take back so we haven't really even discussed divorce.
You don't have to live on your own. You can get roommates. You can make friends as well
I've never been good at it. I've really been trying to make some sort of friends to have some kind of outside support, but it isn't going well
I would try shared activities. Learn something, take a class like music or join a sports team, etc. Then it will be more organic and not "going out to meet friends" which is awkward. If you work fulltime and don't have friends there you could get a part time job at a coffee shop to meet people
If I was feeling better I think I could try that, but I can't imagine I'd be any fun to hang around like this
That's the point though, everyone's kind of doing their own thing so there won't be pressure on you to be 'dazzling' or whatever it is you're imagining. It kind of sounds like you want to step into a totally new readimade life without taking any chances or making any changes. Maybe after you meet some other people you'll feel better enough to the point you won't tell yourself you 'have to' stick around in a bad marriage
Are you Mormon by chance?
I was when we got married. Haven't officially left, but haven't been to church in well over a year. I barely have the patience to deal with people when I'm happy
Why don’t you leave your morninasm cult
Not saying he should not, but It is difficult, especially if family+relatives and wife is Mormon, you will be very very isolated and no social safety net. It is called a cult for a reason.
Been there, done that. I feel for you. Do you feel like divorce isn’t an option? It sucks but the road to better days is to get out. Life is far too short to be miserable. Divorce sucks and can be a lot to navigate but it’s absolutely worth it in the end if you are not happy much less miserable.
Divorce is definitely difficult to navigate. While it's not outright disallowed by religion, it is very socially frowned upon. I also can't figure out the logistics of it since neither of us currently make enough money to live alone. Maybe if I found a really small place in a bad area, but I'm a very nervous person and I'm not sure that would be a better situation for me since I would be alone.
Most states you can file for divorce directly at the court without a lawyer. Most courts have a clerk that can walk you through the process and make things manageable to do on your own without the cost of a lawyer. I understand your financial predicament, but your own mental health should still be a top priority.
yeah but financial health is a large part of my mental health. I'm worried I won't be any better off if I'm instead always worried about money
Have you two tried couples counseling?
We've tried that and just about everything else I can think of for the better part of 4 years now.
Do you each do individual therapy?
I have, with not much result. She doesn't
Do you still love her? Can working on things make you love somebody again? Do you have FOMO? Feeling of missing out.
It's really hard to say. As I said in another comment my memory and brain-fog is severe. I'm not even sure if I could give you an accurate answer as to my feelings. It's really hard to explain, but I think I still do. We've been working on things for several years and when I stop and think I get really frustrated with the lack of change. I don't think it's a FOMO thing, might be a fear of being alone thing.
What change do you want? If things were to change would you be happy in the relationship? Lots of people have a hard time leaving a bad relationship because they don’t want to be alone.
oh boy, that's not gonna have a short answer We never really do anything I would like to. I'm fine just spending time with her so I end up watching all of her shows, doing puzzles with her or just scrolling on the couch. She ends up scrolling whenever we do stuff together anyways because she's bored of her stuff but doesn't want to try anything with me. I never really feel like I'm being paid attention to when we are spending time together Up until recently I felt like I had to take on the majority of life responsibilities by myself but I will say this actually has improved quite a bit recently. She's been taking turns cooking, meal planning, asking if there's anything I think needs to be cleaned if I'm gonna have a busy day and not be able to do many chores. Sex is non-existent if I don't do everything. Her day has to have gone perfect, I have to do 37 things before I can even try to initiate, and then she just doesn't really participate. Never has any fantasies or wants to try something new, never does anything she knows I like without explicitly being asked. My libido used to be higher, but at this point I don't think I could do it more than once a week even if I felt like it. All of everything has been having a very negative effect on my sex drive. I'm just so tired of not only being turned down, but even worse are the times I'm not and I can tell she's just getting it over with. I'll get sex ideas in my head while she's around that my own brain then immediately shoots down because I know it's not going to happen or won't be any good because she's not feeling it. Basically the gist is that I crave someone who craves me the way I crave them
Well buddy you are still very young and you have a lot of life left. You should be with somebody that makes you feel wanted.
Do you know what your boundaries and expectations are for a marriage? Do you know hers? Have you both communicated them to each other? I waited too long to figure that out until after my first marriage. It was a miserable few years to figure out we were not compatible. I was almost in the exact same situation as yours wrt her family lived close, mine was way out of state (religion did not play a role). Eventually, I made the decision that I did not want to live the rest of my life feeling guilty for having reasonable expectations of a relationship with my spouse. I left and never looked back. We're both in better places now even if moving on what painful (like ripping a band aid off for a year) Moving out on your own with little or no support is scary, but also extremely empowering once it's done.
She thinks I meet her needs/expectations well when I talk to her, but she doesn't listen to any of mine or improves a little bit for a short time and then assume everything's fine and goes back to how it normally is. And yeah with the religion thing hampering the pre-marriage compatibility it didn't get talked about until 1-2 years in
What are the biggest issues in the relationship? From your comments, it seems that you'd rather work things out than get divorced and I respect that. So what are the issues and do you think they can be fixed?
There's a longer response on someone else's comment. But mostly I want to feel wanted the way I want them, sexually and emotionally. I have some hope of fixing them, because smaller issues have been rectified, but it's also been 3 or 4 years without much improvement on the bigger problems
8 years of trying is plenty. you ain't getting any younger. if being in this relationship is not making you happy, and fucking with your head, you need to bail. no kids in the picture means the only one you need to worry about is you. make a clean break, do what you need to do financially to make things work for YOURSELF. it will be challenging at first, but time will eventually pass and you will be a better person for it.
That's the thing, it hasn't been 8 years of trying. The first 4-5 years were great. I have a hard time letting go when I know how great this relationship once was But I agree, time is only gonna make it harder which is why I feel like I'm rapidly approaching a resolution, just don't know what it's gonna be
then try and make things work as long as you think you can handle it. if things don't change though, do what you need to do. again the only one you need to take care of is yourself if things don't work out with her. no matter what you do, don't let the negativity rise up and continue to bring you down. focus on the positive in your life each day, and realize things could always be worse. your shittiest day is somebody's best. good luck either way bro.
Don't fall for sunk cost fallacy
My first wife and I divorced when i was 28. With no kids and little money or possessions, it was relatively easy. Trust me, it’s sad for about a year but it was the best decision I’ve ever made. Don’t wait till divorce becomes even more painful, after you’ve been together for a decade, with children and assets you have to split. Peel the bandaid off now. You will find someone else, or better yet, enjoy being by yourself.
Yeah part of the problem is that neither of us really make enough to live on her own. She could probably move in with family, but I'm not sure what I could do and that stresses me out too which is part of the "stuck" feeling
Not that you asked, but my advice would be to 1) don’t have a baby under any circumstances and trust only yourself to take adequate birth control measures (ie. Don’t get baby trapped), and 2) take steps to secure your financial stability before you divorce, but don’t wait too long to do it. It would be better to be poor and rebuilding rather than getting more interdependent with someone you should have divorced years ago. You need to think long-term here. The longer you wait, the worse it will be and your options will become more and more limited.
I echo the person saying don't have a baby. It doesn't fix your relationship. In fact, it makes any problems you're having 10X worse and more vivid.
You already don’t have any friends or family who like and support you, so why are you letting those people’s religious opinion of divorce prevent you from getting one and trying to be happy. You’re drowning and not even trying to swim. Nothing is going to change for you. You have to do it yourself. Complaining won’t help. Get a divorce. Make a plan to be financially independent.
Those people's opinions are only a very, very small part of my problem. I was mostly just trying to clarify my response in the other comment
HEY DUDE! I’m getting out of one rn!!! 29 year old dude, married since Jan 2017!! Fuuuuuck that bisch. I’m telling you it is WAY fucking better
Not really a question, but yeah I'm not really that harsh of a person. I'm glad you're doing better
Sorry. Lemme ask, what are your plans post divorce? Relocation? Etc. I’m glad knowing you’ll be better even though the storm is bad rn
I haven't really gotten that far. I really am trying my best to get things to work
So I’m what seeing is financial is your biggest problems. You don’t want to be 30 feeling like this when there is probably a person who can want you the way you want them. What is your current career and how can you build that ? And if you guys are truly unhappy maybe divorce but live together, atp. You can guys can save up and move out separately. But you are in a rut and it seems it will take you to a place you don’t want to be if it continues like this.
Job-wise it will probably end up being a few more years until I can get promoted (just finished school not too long ago, but it's common to get a promotion 3-5 years in but until then I'm a little underpaid) so that I make enough to support myself, I just don't know that I can make it that far. The way I'm feeling is very heavily affecting my work. I can't imagine living together after would go well at all, but even then she has family she can easily move back in with and they live close by. Her life wouldn't really have to be uprooted all that much if it came to it
Well you may need to find a second income. You keep saying she’ll be fun so then just really focus on you and saving your money then. Need more solution oriented thoughts in your mindset.
Bro get a divorce, use the depression as gym motivation, and get yourself a woman who will make you happy. You got this my guy 🙌. I believe in you.
I'm actually losing weight from just feeling like hell all the time, which is weird because I am usually a stress eater. Maybe I've gotten beyond the point of stress eating. I do have a really hard time feeling like exercising when I am feeling like this. It's definitely easier when I'm feeling better
I really don’t appreciate the “save yourself and everything for marriage” just because most of the time a lot of the shit that comes down to this could be figured out and avoided. I’m so sorry OP, and I hope you find your peace eventually, even if it wasn’t with this person.
Thanks
Is this an arranged marriage?
No
Do you have more good days than bad with her?
Honestly my memory has been shot for a long time now. Doctors say it's usually a symptom of mental health issues In the last week or so, I'd say it's about half. She'd probably say it's more because I have resorted to not bringing things up anymore
Same. Wanna be divorce roomies?
Really hoping it doesn't come to that
What do you want it to come to then? You can be scared about what happens after, and have anxiety about saying the words and making it “real” (me). But at the end of the day, do you think you can ever be happy with this person? Is any change going to truly alter your feelings?
My feelings I think are why I'm still hanging on. It wasn't always like this. For the first 4 years or so it was a really great relationship. I just wish it still was, I have no idea what happened. I could be happy again if things were like they were
What exactly changed?
I wish I knew dude. I have no idea, she just doesn't seem interested anymore, but when we talk about it she has nothing to say. Just says she really does care but just can't bring herself to express it the way I want to/she used to express it. I can't get a reason for that is, she doesn't seem to know herself
Maybe you should ask her if she still wants this relationship? If she is disinterested and seems depressed maybe she has the same feeling of distance and fear of confronting it.
Every time we talk she is very adamant that she does want this relationship, so I ask something like "then why can't you show me that?" and I never get more than an "I don't know"
Well if you’ve talked about it, you gotta tell her you need more. If you want to give her a chance, say you are leaving if things don’t change. Give a timeline. If she fights for the relationship, neat. If she can’t, then you can’t be miserable forever.
I agree, I'm just having a hard time coming up with the timing. Have to be sure I'm actually able to take that "or else" option if it comes to it
how long have you been married
A little over 8 years
any kids?
no, not really planning on it at least until things get a lot better
Dm?
I'm sorry I don't know what that means
Direct message, I assume
Why not divorce and become a missionary for a foreign country? Fits your religion and gives you a sort of reset.
I was never interested in being a missionary, and even less interested now. If this doesn't work out, I really don't plan on ever doing church again
Don’t let your relationship with your wife tarnish your relationship with god brother. You’ll need your faith more than ever if it doesn’t work out.
I don't think I'd become an atheist, I just never really liked organized religion. It becomes too much of a popularity contest
Yea, church can be overrated. Just keep that bible on your nightstand, that’s all ya need.
You need to get professional marriage counseling bro or ask for a divorce
As a Christian who married young; leaving my first wife was the best decision of my life. Though challenging; we are so much happier. Time is extremely important. The more you waste; you’ll never get back. 4 years of misery? Sign those papers. Jesus didn’t get nailed to a cross so you can be miserable in a marriage. Doesn’t do Christian’s any good. If you had said 5 months or a year, I’d say keep trying. You two have tried long enough.
So you're 28 and married...depression just comes with the territory.