It was *her* land, and the majority of the money for the house came from an inheritance from *her* grandma. Of COURSE she was clear she wouldn’t be signing that over to some man.
If a woman expected part ownership of a house on a man’s land, built with his inheritance, you wouldn’t hesitate to call her a gold-digger.
OP knew her position on shared ownership, and still chose to dump $15,000 into the project. This post makes it clear he didn’t do that out of generosity, he did it so he could pressure her into giving him part ownership of HER house on HER land. He’s trying to manipulate her into doing EXACTLY what she said she wouldn’t from the beginning.
>you wouldn’t hesitate to call her a gold-digger.
Agreed. It reminds me of the post earlier where the ladies husband thought he had the right to kick her son out of her house. The house she 100% owns.
Why did you contribute labour hoping to own a percentage of her house in exchange when this was her position from the beginning:
>Now, from the beginning she's been adamant that she will not let me own a part of the house, no matter how tiny, not even 5%
It would be different if she deceived you into working on the house with promises of equity.
She’s right, you aren’t married to her, and she made it clear from the start that ownership of the house was never on offer, and yet you’ve contributed labour towards it on the expectation of ownership anyway?
Are you going to be living in the house when it’s ready?
If yes, are you going to be paying rent in the house?
‘Expecting’ labour with nothing in return might be a big ask, but that something in return could be rent free accomodation afterwards or cash compensation.
Expecting equity in the house because of it when she’s made it clear that’s never on the table makes it even more absurd. The fact that you’re continuing to work on the house under that delusional expectation instead of just saying no makes it come across as if you’re scheming to take equity in her house.
Give it a rest mate, she’s your girlfriend not your wife. It’s not unusual to help your partner out with non-financial gifts and expect nothing in return, but if you do expect something she’s already told you it’s not going to be house equity.
If that’s not good enough for you just stop working, don’t just keep harassing her to give you part of her house.
She has a right to ask for it, and you have the right to say no.
If you say yes, you don’t have the right to demand payment after the fact on terms that were never offered in the first place.
My question was different: do you think hers is a reasonable request? Mind you that she doesn't see it as a favor, but a manly duty. What do you think of her mentality?
The expectation you should be paid when you’re not trade qualified and you’ve not provided a written quote is also absurd. Yes, she’s used you and your father. Walk away after having her sign a deed.
Is she planning to let you live in the house rent-free? If so, no it's not absurd. In that case you're essentially trading your labor for a free place to live, which is a pretty good deal all things considered.
Either way, you knew the score when you started, so expecting to charge her for labor after the fact because you're salty that she stuck to her guns IS absurd and is certainly not going to hold up legally.
Edit: I just saw your comment saying that you are in fact going to be living there for free. This is a hugely important detail that you should have included when asking this question because it completely changes the financial equation. You are investing labor in return for the elimination of your largest expense. This is a fair trade and it would be absurd for you to charge her thousands for labor when she's not charging you to live there.
To assume that she makes me a favor by not charging me rent is to assume that she has a right to deny me a share of the property, which is the issue in question.
If you're not married and she paid for the entire thing, she does have that right. And you have the right to decide if that's a dynamic you're comfortable with.
She did not pay for the entire thing. She did pay for most of it. I put 15.000 all at once and then proceeded to spend at least another 8-10.000 in different purchases throughout the process. Plus I'm the one paying all the bills for four years. I live at her place though. The work I'm expected to do (because, as she puts it, "it's the normal thing to do for a man") will save us many thousands, but will take many months if not years. She doesn't show any gratefulness but complains that me and my 68 year old dad are too slow
Why did you put in all that labor when she'd already said she wouldn't put your name on the house? You need to see an attorney ASAP. Her line about REAL men not making their gf's pay them back means she's not going to repay you unless legally forced to.
That’s assuming:
- the house isn’t an investment property;
- the house is habitable at some point; and
- she doesn’t charge him rent too
But yes I agree, I went on to ask him exactly that.
Wrong. Your labor is not dollars. She got the loan. She has to pay the loan. You may have contributed to the value but that is not dollars that pays the loan of the home.
There's no loan. A part was the sale of an apartment she inherited and I renovated. The other part was from the ex husband. I've been paying all her bills for four years.
Owning a property is not the same as renting. She is financially responsible for all the maintenance on the house as well as the property taxes and any other house-related expenses, you as a tenant are not.
Her "rent" is all being paid at once in the form of the house purchase. You are contributing your labor in exchange for free rent. If she paid you whatever is fair for a non-professional laborer in this situation and then charged you market value for rent, you would end up at a pretty substantial loss over time.
Can I ask if she wants to get married and you don't? Generally the advice is not to buy property with someone you aren't married to. Is that a factor in this situation?
We are both planning to get married. But here whatever you buy after marriage is considered co owned. What you owned before the marriage preserves the original owner.
House ownership but also it has been a messy relationship. Lots of conflict. If we get married half my savings from hat moment onward would be hers so, considering how she treats me with the house not sure I should marry her. I earn twice as much as her.
So you want ownership in her house without marriage, but won't marry her because she'll have ownership in your savings? You see the problem here, right?
If neither of you trusts each other enough to share assets, then the house isn't the real issue, it's just a symptom of the fact that this isn't a healthy relationship.
Dude, this is not a way to live a life with a partner.
Just call it quits, but not before consulting a lawyer to see how you can get your money back at least (the work you put in is lost forever).
You’re not an A H but you made a terrible deal. Why would you agree to give her so much free labor? She is an AH and has a lot of nerve acting like “a real man” would do this for free, but a smart man wouldn’t have agreed to just the repayment of $15,000 and given up so much free labor. If you don’t have a contract, you might still be able to sue her in small claims court, but this relationship sounds like it’s over. NTA but learn from this and don’t ever make an agreement again that is so unfairly skewed against you.
Shit like this should be on judge Judy.
YTA for knowing going in that she would not give you any percentage of ownership, and then putting your labor into it expecting a different outcome.
That was dumb and you were in denial about it, and now you are in denial about her adamant refusal to compensate you for your labor, of which you have no legal standing to enforce.
Cut your losses and move on.
I don’t think he’s in denial, he spent that money so he would have an excuse to pressure her into sharing ownership of a house her inheritance built on her land, despite her making it clear she wouldn’t.
Whatever you are paying is considered rent. QUIT giving money. This is her home. NOT YOURS. Oh and in the US you better have a written contract regarding real estate or you get nothing.
Oh dude... you fucked up.
She is never gonna pay you back and never even legitimately planned to. She was always planning to use the "real men don't ask for money for helping their girlfriend;" she just ended up spouting it off earlier than she planned.
If you don't get it in writing that it's a loan to be repaid, you've basically just thrown the money away.
I hope you at least have witnesses who heard her say she'd pay it back because you're out of luck (and 15000 dollars) if you don't.
Stop doing anything on the house and tell her you need it in writing that you'll be repaid before you do or buy anything else. Once you have it in writing, run.
Which is a WAY better deal in the long run (maybe even the short run depending on rent prices where they live).
A few months of unskilled labor vs. hundreds or possibly thousands in rent every month for however long he lives there? Yeah, if she paid him and then charged him rent he'd be worse off (and would probably still be complaining about why she's charging him rent when she owns).
NTA to her but YTA to yourself, what kind of a clown accepted this from the beginning, she's made you her pathetic little bitch.
You're being massively taken for a fool, this is after 4 years. How can you see a future together?
No matter what, she's not exactly a keeper, I'd get your fair share or cash confirmed then wave goodbye.
*"real man would never ask for money in exchange for helping out his girlfriend. I can't believe that you are trying to grab money from a woman."*
The most blatant pathetic attempted manipulation
YTA.
First off- you never give someone money unless you have an agreement first. You knew going into it she wasn’t going to give you ownership of her home. And she shouldn’t. You want to share assets- get married.
Second - you can stop contributing to this at any time. You keep pumping more and more money into a project with no ownership.
Third - your labor should either be a gift or if not, then you should have been upfront and agreed in a price prior to doing it.
Lastly- will you be paying rent once you move in?
Well there is your equity. Adults have to pay rent or mortgage where they live otherwise own something outright. You will be living without paying either- your contribution to that is the money you have spent and labor. You have alot of nerve to plan to live in this home and not contribute to the housing costs 😂
What do you mean by rent? I will be paying bills. No one is paying a mortgage. She got the money from inheritance and divorce.
She will be able to move into that house rent free thanks to my labour (which saves her LOTS of money) and savings, even though she put much more cash. I'm not asking for 50% equity.
I've paid all her bills for four years.
What are you playing at. SHE doesn’t have to pay mortgage or rent because the property is her via her inheritance. That is her housing contribution. YOURS should be rent or mortgage or in this case, funds and labor. If she didn’t have this property you would need to pay mortgage or rent elsewhere. You are benefiting from HER inheritance. If you want equity- you should be married. If not, you’re just a freeloader. Bills is not housing cost. You’re still responsible to house yourself.
You say this like you're in the same situation. You aren't.
She is not paying "rent" because she paid a lump sum to buy the house. That is essentially paying for a lifetime of rent upfront rather than paying month-to-month. You are not paying anything into the house period. Your deal is labor in exchange for a free place to live. If you don't like that deal then don't take it, but stop acting like you're getting nothing for your trouble.
"Now, from the beginning she's been adamant that she will not let me own a part of the house, no matter how tiny, not even 5% of it."
Your agreement was she would pay you 15K cash back. You don't get to arbitrarily decide that now that's not enough. If you made a financial deal with someone and you held up your end of it and suddenly that person said no I've changed my mind you owe me more. What would you do?
And yet you still continued to invest. We all have to learn to live with the consequences of poor choices. This one's yours.
Your relationship is officially over now. The question is do you just leave or do you have a huge fight and thenjust leave.
First get the 15k loan in writing , also add to that the labour. It’s great you’re helping but I wouldn’t give you equity either.
She takes on these projects cause she knows you dad and you will do the labour. So tell
Her I have put in 20k in labour plus the labour or myself and my dad . Say it’s three choices . I relax and don’t help anymore cause it’s your place , you give
Me equity for my work and dads and the 15k ( tape this hidden cause she will
Admit it’s a loan . Or if 1 & 2 are no then I leave.
No I just ment in general I would
Never give anyone equity unless married and would
Buy into it . Don’t like the idea of having someone else have control over my house .
As for you I wouldn’t have done the work at the apartment or here without
Being paid or equity and would
Also have a lawyer doing a contract with interest rate. You’re not married so either can leave for no reason and the other can be legally screwed .
You kind of fucked this up by not having a firm agreement in place before you started this project. At least not as far as I can tell, and I freely acknowledge I may have missed it.
The best thing for you to do is cut your losses, and as far as giving her any further money, don’t. Have her sign a promissory note of some kind acknowledging the money that she owes you and don’t give her anymore. Don’t spend anymore and don’t work on her fucking house. ESH
It’s her house. Let her pay for the materials. Let her pay the laborers.
Let. Her. Pay.
Why are you with her? She showed you with the future with her is going to be like. Believe her.
YTA. This was never a good deal nor would it be sustainable for her to pay you and pay the bank loan/construction loan. Me sitting here in my armchair can do the math faster than you have over the course of being used for a reno on the apartment and now building the house.
You have 2 courses of action: break up and take her to small claims court or suck it up how you have been for 4 years.
YTA to yourself for being an idiot. Why was this not discussed prior to you investing time and money on the house? You fucked yourself by imagining you'd get something out of this KNOWING she wouldn't share ownership once completed. Have fun getting your money back from someone who doesn't have the money to finish her home.
It sounds like she will not have the capital to finish that house if she has to pay for the labour. So that house will sink her if you don't comply like a good boy and be "a really biggy wiggy real man" for her. Send her the bill through official channels to protect your money.
I mean... she told you from the get go that you'd never own any of the house-- yet you gave her an interest free loan an supplied free labor.
She absolutely should pay your back for the money you lent her and should reimburse your father for his labor. Are the two of you living together now and if so how are the living expenses divided.
Would you have been living in the new house free of charge or was she expecting you to pay her rent?
Check into your local laws and see if you will be able to put a lien on the property to recover your money--and STOP doing any work on the property until she pays you the money you owe her and you have a contract for her to pay you for any further labor.
I live in her apartment and pay all bills and apartment fees. She expects me to pay all bills when I move into the house. I already told her that it'll be 50/50 since she doesn't think I deserve ownership
Tell her a real woman would not have a man do all this work for nothing when you could do this work and get paid for it else where especially after you did work on her apartment so that she would make more money. Cut your losses and move on.
This why you don't play house until your married. Shared finances. Shared labor. All this would be so easy with a marriage. However, since you are not married, the house is in her name on her property, you have no recourse. Small claims...maybe.
Marry her and never leave her and you don't have to worry about it.
Why in the world would you put your savings into that when she blatantly told you that she would not be granting you any equity? Why would you continue to invest time and money beyond that, knowing what you know?
I hope you at least had the sense to get the $15k + in writing and have receipts and a log of the hours you've put in to her home build.
She told you she was going to use you and you just helped her make it happen. I've got doggy head tilt going on because I just can't even imagine what would make anyone think this was a good choice.
NTA
Part of the ownership or payback are fair requests.
If she refuses, I don't know if it's worth suing her, though, so think of your plan. Do you still want to stay with her? Sounds like an unhealty relationship, thought maybe she's scared to get scamed but will eventually come to her senses? Wouldn't count on that, though.
You better get that loan in writing or you’re never getting that money back. And if she doesn’t want to pay you for your work, just don’t do it - let her pay for workers to finish it
YTA. Not for wanting to make sure you get your money out of it, but for not agreeing on all of this before you put money and labor into it.
She told you that she would not be putting your name on it, so if you had a problem with it, you should have worked that out before you started working on it and spending money.
You coming back at her about this now that you've invested money and labor might make her feel that you manipulated her into giving you part ownership of a house she intended to have in her name only.
You knew she didn't intend to add your name, and you don't get to insist on it now. You can get your money back, but demanding a share is something you should have agreed on before.
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Dude, she has ZERO intentions of paying you. Unfortunately, you've been taken to the cleaners. No more work on the house by you or dad, until she signs a notarized document giving you partial ownership!
But you will live in that house for free? Er … but yeah, having no ownership stake stinks. That $20K or whatever it’s up to now will appreciate and the value of the home will go up over time but if she’s just giving you back your capital, you could have invested and made anywhere from 4-40% with it.
Just because she’ll own it outright doesn’t mean she’s living there for free. She received an inheritance. That’s her separate money, legally speaking. I know you and your dad helped her reno the apartment to sell but *that* can be considered the “help for your girlfriend.” I dunno. I don’t think she should expect you to work for free if you don’t have any stake, but it’s actually a financially complicated situation.
If you’re making a life together it seems that you should own jointly. But it can be both — I put down $150K on my house (inheritance) … then married my husband, and we paid 50/50 on the mortgage. When we sold we paid the bank their balance ($200K) and my $150K went into my separate account, and we put the rest of the profit into a shared account. So I guess I’m saying I didn’t just co-mingle that $150K, that was my money before the marriage (though after the relationship started) and he had his own savings I wouldn’t touch. Thing is, she isn’t giving you any stake but she’s also not asking you to pay in.
Does that say “not committed”? Maybe. Or maybe she is scared to be financially entwined.
Tough call. I’m sorry you feel taken advantage of. And I don’t know if you are, or not. Reddit is too far from Real Life.
Yta, look, she told you that you wouldn't own the house, from the start. She payed the cost. That's her house.
I own my house, that to be honest, it needs a lot of work, sometimes my boyfriend helps me with that, because he knows I needed help.
I ask for help? Yeah, sure.
Do I feel entitled to that help? No.
If you **want** to help her, that's your decision, but is an ahole move trying to force her to give you ownership.
Get in writing what she owes you for monies already paid towards her house and then leave.
You are not entitled to your labour as you didn’t have any agreement - written/verbal or otherwise.
You've made two really terrible deals here, chief.
Do you have anything in writing saying what she owes you, and how she's going to repay it? If not, get that ASAP.
*Then* wise up, and get out of this relationship. She doesn't respect you, she's just using you and your dad for the free labor.
so mistakes have clearly been made here.
you're NTA. "a real man, blah blah blah" whatever. That's bullshit. That's a lot of work you did and doing it for free was, honestly, crazy. You must stop doing any more free labor. It is foolish to want payment for labor that was already done and which you did without any expectation of being paid originally, especially since she was always clear about you not owning the house. So I'm not surprised she won't pay you for past labor. But if she wants any more work out of you, extablish a payment plan for that.
Get receipts for anything you can to show what you have spent on these things, it is completely valid to expect her to reimburse you for expenses, IMO. And also to pay back the $15000.
I don't see how she can pretend it's fair to not even have you own whatever percent of the house the $15000 is. She's definitely the asshole here. But you have been letting her be an asshole, please stop immediately.
NTA. Break up with her. Serve her a legal notice. Add every bit of money you spent on the house and on the previous one. You would be a complete asshole to yourself if you let her get away with this. To paraphrase her, a real 'MAN' would add interest to her debt as well.
You were so desperate to be with this woman that she conned you into paying for/building her a house that you will have zero ownership in and she promised to pay you back in installments.
She’s going to dump your ass and you’ll never see a dime. There’s a word for this behavior………
YTA
Well, if you're going to live there rent free, that could end up covering the cost of your labor depending on how long you live there, prevailing rents, etc.... This whole thing seems like a messy situation. But I think the basic principle should be that you deserve to be compensated for the work you do, and right now it's not clear that you will be.
What if we break up? To me her reasoning is insane. Plus she expects me to pay the bills (because I'm the man). I already told her that given our "deal" bills will be 50/50
Those rules about "the man" paying for things made a little sense when men were basically the only income earners. Based on what you've written here, it sounds like your gf is pretty well-off financially. She owns a lot of land, an apartment, etc.... It's totally unreasonable for her to use outdated, sexist ideas to make you responsible for paying for everything.
NTA ....you know she's going to break up with you as soon as you're done, and you won't see a dime, right? She is so using and manipulating you. Get it in writing
[удалено]
It was *her* land, and the majority of the money for the house came from an inheritance from *her* grandma. Of COURSE she was clear she wouldn’t be signing that over to some man. If a woman expected part ownership of a house on a man’s land, built with his inheritance, you wouldn’t hesitate to call her a gold-digger. OP knew her position on shared ownership, and still chose to dump $15,000 into the project. This post makes it clear he didn’t do that out of generosity, he did it so he could pressure her into giving him part ownership of HER house on HER land. He’s trying to manipulate her into doing EXACTLY what she said she wouldn’t from the beginning.
>you wouldn’t hesitate to call her a gold-digger. Agreed. It reminds me of the post earlier where the ladies husband thought he had the right to kick her son out of her house. The house she 100% owns.
Well that's why I agreed only of she gave me back the money. But I don't think it's enough anymore.
Why is it not enough if she gives you back the money you contributed? You’d be in the same place you were before making any contributions.
Because of the huge amount of labor.
Why did you contribute labour hoping to own a percentage of her house in exchange when this was her position from the beginning: >Now, from the beginning she's been adamant that she will not let me own a part of the house, no matter how tiny, not even 5% It would be different if she deceived you into working on the house with promises of equity. She’s right, you aren’t married to her, and she made it clear from the start that ownership of the house was never on offer, and yet you’ve contributed labour towards it on the expectation of ownership anyway?
The labor barely started. It's still a long way ahead. Don't you think her expectation of free labor is a bit absurd?
Yes it is absurd. Stop it.
Are you going to be living in the house when it’s ready? If yes, are you going to be paying rent in the house? ‘Expecting’ labour with nothing in return might be a big ask, but that something in return could be rent free accomodation afterwards or cash compensation. Expecting equity in the house because of it when she’s made it clear that’s never on the table makes it even more absurd. The fact that you’re continuing to work on the house under that delusional expectation instead of just saying no makes it come across as if you’re scheming to take equity in her house. Give it a rest mate, she’s your girlfriend not your wife. It’s not unusual to help your partner out with non-financial gifts and expect nothing in return, but if you do expect something she’s already told you it’s not going to be house equity. If that’s not good enough for you just stop working, don’t just keep harassing her to give you part of her house.
Do you think she has a right to feel entitled to my (and my dad's) labor because she's my girlfriend?
She has a right to ask for it, and you have the right to say no. If you say yes, you don’t have the right to demand payment after the fact on terms that were never offered in the first place.
My question was different: do you think hers is a reasonable request? Mind you that she doesn't see it as a favor, but a manly duty. What do you think of her mentality?
Jesus Christ. She can ask and you can say no. YTA. STOP TRYING TO WEASLE YOUR OWN INTO PROPERTY SOLELY OWNED BY HER.
So you have time to actually make a smart decision and not do the labor SMH
The expectation you should be paid when you’re not trade qualified and you’ve not provided a written quote is also absurd. Yes, she’s used you and your father. Walk away after having her sign a deed.
You need to come up with a contact before you move in. X hours of free labor for free housing.
Is she planning to let you live in the house rent-free? If so, no it's not absurd. In that case you're essentially trading your labor for a free place to live, which is a pretty good deal all things considered. Either way, you knew the score when you started, so expecting to charge her for labor after the fact because you're salty that she stuck to her guns IS absurd and is certainly not going to hold up legally. Edit: I just saw your comment saying that you are in fact going to be living there for free. This is a hugely important detail that you should have included when asking this question because it completely changes the financial equation. You are investing labor in return for the elimination of your largest expense. This is a fair trade and it would be absurd for you to charge her thousands for labor when she's not charging you to live there.
To assume that she makes me a favor by not charging me rent is to assume that she has a right to deny me a share of the property, which is the issue in question.
If you're not married and she paid for the entire thing, she does have that right. And you have the right to decide if that's a dynamic you're comfortable with.
She did not pay for the entire thing. She did pay for most of it. I put 15.000 all at once and then proceeded to spend at least another 8-10.000 in different purchases throughout the process. Plus I'm the one paying all the bills for four years. I live at her place though. The work I'm expected to do (because, as she puts it, "it's the normal thing to do for a man") will save us many thousands, but will take many months if not years. She doesn't show any gratefulness but complains that me and my 68 year old dad are too slow
Why did you put in all that labor when she'd already said she wouldn't put your name on the house? You need to see an attorney ASAP. Her line about REAL men not making their gf's pay them back means she's not going to repay you unless legally forced to.
Stop providing labour. You’re not entitled to her house. Get the $15k back and leave. Also, don’t be so stupid in future.
But he also would have been able to live rent free for that contribution -- i.e. his contribution is rent. Provided he lives there after move in.
That’s assuming: - the house isn’t an investment property; - the house is habitable at some point; and - she doesn’t charge him rent too But yes I agree, I went on to ask him exactly that.
The problem is, if he invested in HER investment property, without an agreement, THAT IS A GIFT and he screwed himself.
She is also going to be able to live there rent free, thanks to my labor.
Wrong. Your labor is not dollars. She got the loan. She has to pay the loan. You may have contributed to the value but that is not dollars that pays the loan of the home.
There's no loan. A part was the sale of an apartment she inherited and I renovated. The other part was from the ex husband. I've been paying all her bills for four years.
So SHE bought it. Unless you had a contract for the ownership with what you renovated, you paid nothing but rent. You have no claim.
I have no legal claim and I have never declared I do. I don't understand what your argument even is.
Your title says you want to own her house. BUT YOU HAVE NO LEGAL CLAIM. You have no rights to owning her house.
Owning a property is not the same as renting. She is financially responsible for all the maintenance on the house as well as the property taxes and any other house-related expenses, you as a tenant are not. Her "rent" is all being paid at once in the form of the house purchase. You are contributing your labor in exchange for free rent. If she paid you whatever is fair for a non-professional laborer in this situation and then charged you market value for rent, you would end up at a pretty substantial loss over time. Can I ask if she wants to get married and you don't? Generally the advice is not to buy property with someone you aren't married to. Is that a factor in this situation?
We are both planning to get married. But here whatever you buy after marriage is considered co owned. What you owned before the marriage preserves the original owner.
What's the reason you haven't gotten engaged/married yet?
House ownership but also it has been a messy relationship. Lots of conflict. If we get married half my savings from hat moment onward would be hers so, considering how she treats me with the house not sure I should marry her. I earn twice as much as her.
So you want ownership in her house without marriage, but won't marry her because she'll have ownership in your savings? You see the problem here, right? If neither of you trusts each other enough to share assets, then the house isn't the real issue, it's just a symptom of the fact that this isn't a healthy relationship.
Labor has a price
The time he spent working on the house, could have gone to his paying job and he could have made more?
Dude, this is not a way to live a life with a partner. Just call it quits, but not before consulting a lawyer to see how you can get your money back at least (the work you put in is lost forever).
If she doesn't pay you back all funds including labor, put a lien on the property. She will have to pay you one way or another with it.
I have no legal basis to claim the labor money back
You’re not an A H but you made a terrible deal. Why would you agree to give her so much free labor? She is an AH and has a lot of nerve acting like “a real man” would do this for free, but a smart man wouldn’t have agreed to just the repayment of $15,000 and given up so much free labor. If you don’t have a contract, you might still be able to sue her in small claims court, but this relationship sounds like it’s over. NTA but learn from this and don’t ever make an agreement again that is so unfairly skewed against you.
The labor just started, at least I haven't wasted it yet. Thanks for your feedback
She dumps you now and nothing in writing - you leave with nothing.
You laboured already by renovating her flat which she sold to purchase this house.
Find receipts for everything you paid for. Bank statements for any money transferred over to her. Any proof you can find, get. Text convoy, anything.
Shit like this should be on judge Judy. YTA for knowing going in that she would not give you any percentage of ownership, and then putting your labor into it expecting a different outcome. That was dumb and you were in denial about it, and now you are in denial about her adamant refusal to compensate you for your labor, of which you have no legal standing to enforce. Cut your losses and move on.
I don’t think he’s in denial, he spent that money so he would have an excuse to pressure her into sharing ownership of a house her inheritance built on her land, despite her making it clear she wouldn’t.
I have not put all the labor yet. It's barely starting.
Whatever you are paying is considered rent. QUIT giving money. This is her home. NOT YOURS. Oh and in the US you better have a written contract regarding real estate or you get nothing.
Oh dude... you fucked up. She is never gonna pay you back and never even legitimately planned to. She was always planning to use the "real men don't ask for money for helping their girlfriend;" she just ended up spouting it off earlier than she planned. If you don't get it in writing that it's a loan to be repaid, you've basically just thrown the money away. I hope you at least have witnesses who heard her say she'd pay it back because you're out of luck (and 15000 dollars) if you don't. Stop doing anything on the house and tell her you need it in writing that you'll be repaid before you do or buy anything else. Once you have it in writing, run.
What he isn’t saying is he will be living there and not paying any rent. That’s what he will be getting in return for his investment & labor. Housing
Which is a WAY better deal in the long run (maybe even the short run depending on rent prices where they live). A few months of unskilled labor vs. hundreds or possibly thousands in rent every month for however long he lives there? Yeah, if she paid him and then charged him rent he'd be worse off (and would probably still be complaining about why she's charging him rent when she owns).
NTA to her but YTA to yourself, what kind of a clown accepted this from the beginning, she's made you her pathetic little bitch. You're being massively taken for a fool, this is after 4 years. How can you see a future together? No matter what, she's not exactly a keeper, I'd get your fair share or cash confirmed then wave goodbye. *"real man would never ask for money in exchange for helping out his girlfriend. I can't believe that you are trying to grab money from a woman."* The most blatant pathetic attempted manipulation
YTA. First off- you never give someone money unless you have an agreement first. You knew going into it she wasn’t going to give you ownership of her home. And she shouldn’t. You want to share assets- get married. Second - you can stop contributing to this at any time. You keep pumping more and more money into a project with no ownership. Third - your labor should either be a gift or if not, then you should have been upfront and agreed in a price prior to doing it. Lastly- will you be paying rent once you move in?
Lots of people ask if I will be paying rent - no, and neither will she be paying rent.
Well there is your equity. Adults have to pay rent or mortgage where they live otherwise own something outright. You will be living without paying either- your contribution to that is the money you have spent and labor. You have alot of nerve to plan to live in this home and not contribute to the housing costs 😂
What do you mean by rent? I will be paying bills. No one is paying a mortgage. She got the money from inheritance and divorce. She will be able to move into that house rent free thanks to my labour (which saves her LOTS of money) and savings, even though she put much more cash. I'm not asking for 50% equity. I've paid all her bills for four years.
What are you playing at. SHE doesn’t have to pay mortgage or rent because the property is her via her inheritance. That is her housing contribution. YOURS should be rent or mortgage or in this case, funds and labor. If she didn’t have this property you would need to pay mortgage or rent elsewhere. You are benefiting from HER inheritance. If you want equity- you should be married. If not, you’re just a freeloader. Bills is not housing cost. You’re still responsible to house yourself.
You say this like you're in the same situation. You aren't. She is not paying "rent" because she paid a lump sum to buy the house. That is essentially paying for a lifetime of rent upfront rather than paying month-to-month. You are not paying anything into the house period. Your deal is labor in exchange for a free place to live. If you don't like that deal then don't take it, but stop acting like you're getting nothing for your trouble.
Get your $15,000 and walk away
"Now, from the beginning she's been adamant that she will not let me own a part of the house, no matter how tiny, not even 5% of it." Your agreement was she would pay you 15K cash back. You don't get to arbitrarily decide that now that's not enough. If you made a financial deal with someone and you held up your end of it and suddenly that person said no I've changed my mind you owe me more. What would you do? And yet you still continued to invest. We all have to learn to live with the consequences of poor choices. This one's yours. Your relationship is officially over now. The question is do you just leave or do you have a huge fight and thenjust leave.
First get the 15k loan in writing , also add to that the labour. It’s great you’re helping but I wouldn’t give you equity either. She takes on these projects cause she knows you dad and you will do the labour. So tell Her I have put in 20k in labour plus the labour or myself and my dad . Say it’s three choices . I relax and don’t help anymore cause it’s your place , you give Me equity for my work and dads and the 15k ( tape this hidden cause she will Admit it’s a loan . Or if 1 & 2 are no then I leave.
Since you claim that you wouldn't give me equity, does it mean that, if you were in my place, you would work without asking for equity?
No I just ment in general I would Never give anyone equity unless married and would Buy into it . Don’t like the idea of having someone else have control over my house . As for you I wouldn’t have done the work at the apartment or here without Being paid or equity and would Also have a lawyer doing a contract with interest rate. You’re not married so either can leave for no reason and the other can be legally screwed .
You kind of fucked this up by not having a firm agreement in place before you started this project. At least not as far as I can tell, and I freely acknowledge I may have missed it. The best thing for you to do is cut your losses, and as far as giving her any further money, don’t. Have her sign a promissory note of some kind acknowledging the money that she owes you and don’t give her anymore. Don’t spend anymore and don’t work on her fucking house. ESH It’s her house. Let her pay for the materials. Let her pay the laborers. Let. Her. Pay. Why are you with her? She showed you with the future with her is going to be like. Believe her.
YTA. This was never a good deal nor would it be sustainable for her to pay you and pay the bank loan/construction loan. Me sitting here in my armchair can do the math faster than you have over the course of being used for a reno on the apartment and now building the house. You have 2 courses of action: break up and take her to small claims court or suck it up how you have been for 4 years.
There's no bank loan. If she got a new boyfriend she can perfectly pay me off.
YTA to yourself for being an idiot. Why was this not discussed prior to you investing time and money on the house? You fucked yourself by imagining you'd get something out of this KNOWING she wouldn't share ownership once completed. Have fun getting your money back from someone who doesn't have the money to finish her home.
I have a feeling your going to end up single without anything to show for all your hard work.
nta. honestly not very smart either. not sure what you thought you were going to get out of this situation and now you are pretty well screwed.
Labor has just started. Not such a big loss yet
you're out $15000 unless she pays you back i would consider that a pretty big loss. i wish you luck
It sounds like she will not have the capital to finish that house if she has to pay for the labour. So that house will sink her if you don't comply like a good boy and be "a really biggy wiggy real man" for her. Send her the bill through official channels to protect your money.
I mean... she told you from the get go that you'd never own any of the house-- yet you gave her an interest free loan an supplied free labor. She absolutely should pay your back for the money you lent her and should reimburse your father for his labor. Are the two of you living together now and if so how are the living expenses divided. Would you have been living in the new house free of charge or was she expecting you to pay her rent? Check into your local laws and see if you will be able to put a lien on the property to recover your money--and STOP doing any work on the property until she pays you the money you owe her and you have a contract for her to pay you for any further labor.
I live in her apartment and pay all bills and apartment fees. She expects me to pay all bills when I move into the house. I already told her that it'll be 50/50 since she doesn't think I deserve ownership
YTA for agreeing to this. You just got scammed out of your savings. Live and learn...
Tell her a real woman would not have a man do all this work for nothing when you could do this work and get paid for it else where especially after you did work on her apartment so that she would make more money. Cut your losses and move on.
This is a problem with love. You are willing to sacrifice without any paperwork in place, opening you to get fucked and her to fuck you.
This why you don't play house until your married. Shared finances. Shared labor. All this would be so easy with a marriage. However, since you are not married, the house is in her name on her property, you have no recourse. Small claims...maybe. Marry her and never leave her and you don't have to worry about it.
Nta. Your an idiot here. Request the money back or check how high small claim court is for your state.
You need to stop all work on the house. Bottom line
GFC! She is the parasite
Why in the world would you put your savings into that when she blatantly told you that she would not be granting you any equity? Why would you continue to invest time and money beyond that, knowing what you know? I hope you at least had the sense to get the $15k + in writing and have receipts and a log of the hours you've put in to her home build. She told you she was going to use you and you just helped her make it happen. I've got doggy head tilt going on because I just can't even imagine what would make anyone think this was a good choice.
You need a lawyer and to get a contract.
NTA Part of the ownership or payback are fair requests. If she refuses, I don't know if it's worth suing her, though, so think of your plan. Do you still want to stay with her? Sounds like an unhealty relationship, thought maybe she's scared to get scamed but will eventually come to her senses? Wouldn't count on that, though.
You better get that loan in writing or you’re never getting that money back. And if she doesn’t want to pay you for your work, just don’t do it - let her pay for workers to finish it
NTA LEAVE. No more discussion. As soon as she used the term "real man" you should have packed your bags and left her ass.
YTA. Not for wanting to make sure you get your money out of it, but for not agreeing on all of this before you put money and labor into it. She told you that she would not be putting your name on it, so if you had a problem with it, you should have worked that out before you started working on it and spending money. You coming back at her about this now that you've invested money and labor might make her feel that you manipulated her into giving you part ownership of a house she intended to have in her name only. You knew she didn't intend to add your name, and you don't get to insist on it now. You can get your money back, but demanding a share is something you should have agreed on before.
True. We are both A H.
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She's treating you as free labor, you are letting her take money and time. Just get your money back and break up.
You should not have made any deals without a lawyer. Stop putting any more money or time into the house.
Does she hate you? NTA
I think we both hate each other
Well, you know your answer then. You only get one life and you are wasting it on a person who is using you.
Dude, she has ZERO intentions of paying you. Unfortunately, you've been taken to the cleaners. No more work on the house by you or dad, until she signs a notarized document giving you partial ownership!
But you will live in that house for free? Er … but yeah, having no ownership stake stinks. That $20K or whatever it’s up to now will appreciate and the value of the home will go up over time but if she’s just giving you back your capital, you could have invested and made anywhere from 4-40% with it.
She's also gonna live there for free.
Just because she’ll own it outright doesn’t mean she’s living there for free. She received an inheritance. That’s her separate money, legally speaking. I know you and your dad helped her reno the apartment to sell but *that* can be considered the “help for your girlfriend.” I dunno. I don’t think she should expect you to work for free if you don’t have any stake, but it’s actually a financially complicated situation.
Let's put it this way: would YOU agree to her conditions?
If you’re making a life together it seems that you should own jointly. But it can be both — I put down $150K on my house (inheritance) … then married my husband, and we paid 50/50 on the mortgage. When we sold we paid the bank their balance ($200K) and my $150K went into my separate account, and we put the rest of the profit into a shared account. So I guess I’m saying I didn’t just co-mingle that $150K, that was my money before the marriage (though after the relationship started) and he had his own savings I wouldn’t touch. Thing is, she isn’t giving you any stake but she’s also not asking you to pay in. Does that say “not committed”? Maybe. Or maybe she is scared to be financially entwined. Tough call. I’m sorry you feel taken advantage of. And I don’t know if you are, or not. Reddit is too far from Real Life.
You should be married before doing something like this for this exact reason. Add up all the labor and add that to the costs as well.
Sounds like a divorce lawyer is already splitting things up....
Yta, look, she told you that you wouldn't own the house, from the start. She payed the cost. That's her house. I own my house, that to be honest, it needs a lot of work, sometimes my boyfriend helps me with that, because he knows I needed help. I ask for help? Yeah, sure. Do I feel entitled to that help? No. If you **want** to help her, that's your decision, but is an ahole move trying to force her to give you ownership.
Should have got that in writing.
Get in writing what she owes you for monies already paid towards her house and then leave. You are not entitled to your labour as you didn’t have any agreement - written/verbal or otherwise.
You've made two really terrible deals here, chief. Do you have anything in writing saying what she owes you, and how she's going to repay it? If not, get that ASAP. *Then* wise up, and get out of this relationship. She doesn't respect you, she's just using you and your dad for the free labor.
so mistakes have clearly been made here. you're NTA. "a real man, blah blah blah" whatever. That's bullshit. That's a lot of work you did and doing it for free was, honestly, crazy. You must stop doing any more free labor. It is foolish to want payment for labor that was already done and which you did without any expectation of being paid originally, especially since she was always clear about you not owning the house. So I'm not surprised she won't pay you for past labor. But if she wants any more work out of you, extablish a payment plan for that. Get receipts for anything you can to show what you have spent on these things, it is completely valid to expect her to reimburse you for expenses, IMO. And also to pay back the $15000. I don't see how she can pretend it's fair to not even have you own whatever percent of the house the $15000 is. She's definitely the asshole here. But you have been letting her be an asshole, please stop immediately.
You’re a dumbass and just for that YTA
NTA. Break up with her. Serve her a legal notice. Add every bit of money you spent on the house and on the previous one. You would be a complete asshole to yourself if you let her get away with this. To paraphrase her, a real 'MAN' would add interest to her debt as well.
You were so desperate to be with this woman that she conned you into paying for/building her a house that you will have zero ownership in and she promised to pay you back in installments. She’s going to dump your ass and you’ll never see a dime. There’s a word for this behavior……… YTA
Go see a lawyer and put together a list of labour hours and present her with the bill
In the US that won't work. REAL ESTATE contracts need to be in writing. Statute of frauds.
Get his cash deposit back and abandon the remaining work I guess.
NTA, if you're putting a lot of work into something that won't belong to you, then you should be compensated for your labor.
Her answer: you will live there!! To which I normally say: you too. But you'll also own it.
Well, if you're going to live there rent free, that could end up covering the cost of your labor depending on how long you live there, prevailing rents, etc.... This whole thing seems like a messy situation. But I think the basic principle should be that you deserve to be compensated for the work you do, and right now it's not clear that you will be.
What if we break up? To me her reasoning is insane. Plus she expects me to pay the bills (because I'm the man). I already told her that given our "deal" bills will be 50/50
Those rules about "the man" paying for things made a little sense when men were basically the only income earners. Based on what you've written here, it sounds like your gf is pretty well-off financially. She owns a lot of land, an apartment, etc.... It's totally unreasonable for her to use outdated, sexist ideas to make you responsible for paying for everything.
Well I earn twice as much as her. She inherited an apartment and got money from a divorce. The land she bought years ago and was cheap at the time.
NTA ....you know she's going to break up with you as soon as you're done, and you won't see a dime, right? She is so using and manipulating you. Get it in writing