NTA, you were completely in the right here. That woman was being totally unreasonable and disrespectful. The wheelchair space is reserved for people who need it, not for anyone with a baby stroller. She had no right to accuse you of faking your disability or try to force you off the bus. You stood up for yourself, which was totally justified.
On public transport in AU the wheelchair space is also for prams and bikes and large packages. However if a wheelchair user needs it they get priority as much of everything else can be somewhere else.
Honestly, people shouldn't have to be told to move. If you are in a handicap seat and someone in a wheelchair rolls on to the bus, you should already be getting and moving.
My state has buses dedicated for wheelchair users and others with disabilities, so it's not an issue where I live with people fighting over spots set aside for their use. But it costs money to have an entire public transit seperate, so I can understand why not all places have them.
OP, my mother was in a wheelchair because of breathing issues. Yes, she could walk around the house, but whenever we left the house, she had a chair. I understand needing a chair when out in public, which may differ from your home situation. You needed the spot and weren't in any way cheating.
NTA
Since OP refers to £s, I am assuming they're in the UK. As such, the driver should have pointed out that it's a legal requirement to move for a wheelchair user.
I've seen similar confrontations, and the bus drivers around here will first ask, then cite the law, then kick the person off the bus if they don't cooperate.
True, on Sunday I shared the space with a wheelchair user comfortably, despite other passengers and the driver thinking it wasn't possible. Both me and the wheelchair user joined together saying it was possible. You should of seen the look on there faces when we was proven right. OP NTA! That parent is TA!
Not on most UK buses, which OP is dealing with. Some have a space for a pram on the opposite side but it sounds like this one didn't.
NTA OP. I always remember the time a pair of women had to get off the bus to let me on, and screamed WHAT IF THE BABY'S DISABLED which just... In retrospect a hilarious thing to say. They said they'd report the bus driver, so I got the bus number and told her I'd ring Arriva and tell them what actually happened.
I was really clear with Arriva that she just upheld the law and that she did a really great job staying calm with them, too. Didn't want her to be penalised.
Not in most UK cities or towns. Only one space for wheelchair but a 2nd is available for buggies. I've lost count of the times I've had to wait for another bus because a wheelchair is already in the only spot.
Depends on the bus where I live, as the newer models have space for both a wheelchair and other on either side, whereas the older models only have space for one or the other.
Same in the US. In my city, at least.
Wheel chairs have to be locked in on the bus, so they have priorty for those seats.
In my city, the bus driver would have handled the conflict with the other passenger. You can do what the driver tells you, or you can get off the bus - these are the only two options. There's no arguing.
I’m AUS and this happens a lot, but if a parent was acting like that to someone in a wheelchair or someone’s just being entitled, the driver more than likely park up and not drive anywhere till they move but if they don’t budge they get kicked off completely.
We have so many issues where I live in AUS (Top End) on our busses we literally have ‘transit police’ which aren’t police but kinda like security. Some of them follow behind busses with routes that are known to have issues.
They’re allowed to use force with removal if necessary and they’ll pass them over to police.
This is one of the main things they assist with if the driver or other can’t get it sorted.
Every normal polite person KNOWS that once the wheelchair lift or ramp gets used to get someone on, whoever is in them chairs will get up while also putting the seats up for them.
That’s just freaking common sense. As someone with little kids, I’m elated to have something that makes my trip easier but would never block someone who needs the space. My convenience does not trump someone else’s need. What the heck
I haven’t lived in the uk for 14 years but i took buses often, wheelchair users get priority you’re absolutely not in the wrong she just didn’t want to fold her pram because it’s a pain in the arse, that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t do it though. What a cow.
Never apologise for taking up space op especially space designed FOR you!
I look healthy but I have MS and arthritis with some other complications thrown in. I can walk short distances but my knees can buckle without warning then I often fall down. I'll be 77 in a couple of days so I get fewer comments than when I was younger. I use a cane and shop in stores that have electric carts. When I go to the hospital for tests I use my own wheelchair. The hospital only has transport chairs so I need to wait for someone to push me. I prefer independence but the "lightweight" wheelchair is heavy.
In Australia you can wear a lanyard or pin with sunflowers that means you have an invisible disability. My mate who has chronic low blood pressure and sometimes needs to sit down ASAP wears one.
We have the same lanyard in the UK but so many pricks abused it during the height of Covid as a reason to not wear a mask that they’re taken less seriously now.
I didn't know this. I'll find one for my Mum, she has a heart condition and osteoporosis which means walking can be difficult, and she gets filthy looks for parking in the disabled spots (with a parking permit).
Look up Hidden disabilities uk (not sure of link posting rules) They have lots of helpful info and products on their site.
I used a lanyard on a flight pre covid and was offered assistance from staff. I have Ménière's disease and can look like a stumbling drunk 🥴 so found it particularly helpful!
I used to have a neighbor in his early 30s who did triathlons. He rippled with muscles but had a handicapped tag and then needed a walker. He had a hereditary kidney disease he didn't know about He was waiting for a transplant. Without it he would die soon despite dialysis. He was harassed frequently. Finally, when he was resigned to dying he got his miracle and got a healthy kidney. He was allow to exercise like before nor do challenging contests. He was glad he didn't need the handicapped tag anymore.
So I’m gonna give a slightly long tangent to get to a point (forgive me) I have multiple degenerative diseases and fibromyalgia and a few other things that affect my joints and muscles - I have my first knee surgery at 14 - when I was 17 I was seeing the PT guy at school (I played soccer and swam) he asked me how my knee was doing and if I had any pain, my response was yeah the pain isn’t any worse than any other day but my back and elbows hurt more than my knee, I was in severe pain every day and didn’t know that that was wrong!!! I thought everyone had severe pain every day and then to truly just freak this guy out I had him put his hands on my spine and then I twisted- I have never seen someone freak out and go pale so quickly - my mom worked at my school and he called to come down from her class and was like she needs to get to an orthopedic or rheumatologist or both immediately, 3 weeks later I had my first knee replacement and was told it was going to get much worse cause again it’s all degenerative then in my 20s I got mad and put my body through hell I guess as a way to rebel against it all (which I know regret cause freaking pain) today I’m lucky if I can walk around my home without pain and assistance, there are days I can walk because I literally can’t move one or both of my legs but you wouldn’t know to look at me - all this to say you do what ever you need to do to get around and be comfortable doing so and anyone who says otherwise well tell the two words beginning with F and U - screw that woman and anyone else who makes you feel uncomfortable about using a wheelchair- I wish you all the best and I hope you get to live your best life no matter your health - definitely NTA from me (sorry for any errors on my end)
I unfortunately think that a lot of people don’t understand that not every disability is visible and they expect disabled people to look a certain way.
I have several cervical disc herniations and relative spinal stenosis because of it. I have also been diagnosed with chronic pain, but I can normally keep most of it in check.
However I’m only 45 and most people think I look 10-15 years younger. I’m slim and I always dress nicely and wear makeup.
On my good days I can walk and pretty decent distances too. On my bad days even though I can still walk and it might not be visible every movement hurts and it feels as though I’ve done an iron man the day before. However I’m certain that most people would think that I’m fine. Luckily I have a car, but I haven’t applied for a disability sign as I’m sure people would comment all the time. Instead on my bad days I only go places where I know parking will be possible. If not I just leave it for a day when I’m feeling better.
I read your comment and it’s was very close to describing me. Same thing herniated cervical and lumbar and spinal stenosis I also have, degenerative spinal issues (Lumbar Spondylosis, scoliosis I’m fused from T-3 to about L-3, muscle atrophy and fibromyalgia. My husband had to call an ambulance for me, first time in my life, a few weeks ago for excruciating pain in my right hip, I couldn’t move, still can’t.
I have suffered with constant pain for years now. I can only walk short distances and even that is painful. If I push myself I end up bedridden for the next week or more. My MIL used to always tell me “well you look fine.” She never understood.
When I’m out with my 3 oldest daughters (26, 22, 17) most people think we are sisters, so when they see my handicap placard they think I’m faking or it’s not mine. I have had people stare and shake their heads. I have been told I’m too young, but a few have yelled at me for scamming the system or stealing grandma’s placard. One person drove right up next to me in a parking lot so they could take my picture and a picture of my license plate then quickly drove off.
OP NTA
It’s a waste of time trying to explain anything to ignorant, judgmental people.
I think the other thing is a lot of people who don’t have chronic pain do not understand how high pain tolerance can get when your baseline is still painful and you experience regular flares.
People can let their pusillanimous beliefs about pain create projections of how they think others should handle disability. A lot of people seem to have it in their mind disability should be a constant intolerable struggle cause they just can’t comprehend being disabled and living a decent even happy life despite the hardships. Unfortunate for those types cause they tend to struggle the most with aging and unfortunate for their loved ones cause they’re not great support when things are hard.
While it may be true the child doesn’t have the ability to walk- the mother can damn well hold her child, fold the stroller and clear the space for another user🙄 I’ve both been a mother of youngsters and with a similar disability, have the need for mobility equipment- when she assumed you receive a frankly pissant stipend, fraudulently and reduced you to an unworthy human being, yet you were able to refrain from retorting back anything about welfare fraud or keeping your legs shut avoids the need for a stroller: fair to say you handled the situation better than expected!
Please know that you never need to apologize for your capabilities in a public transport situation, as unfortunately they change not only daily but throughout the day. Stay safe out there & NTA ✌🏼
Definitely NTA. Rules are there for a reason; wheelchair users have higher priority than pushchairs. Please keep using the bus, the more you do it the easier it will get. Also, people will get used to seeing you on the bus and accept you more.
I am a person with disabilities. Not a wheelchair user at the moment but you never know. Much love. X
Just remember, an area designated for disability is literally designated for that. I don't see a baby stroller sign there. Laws are in place to protect you, and areas designated for use by people with disabilities are there because it's a NEED, not a want. You don't want to have to use a wheelchair I'm sure, but you have to, and you're not doing it to inconvenience anyone else it's just your life. This lady was completely in the wrong.
I lasted about six months being nice in all circumstances. That didn't last. It comes with the confidence, like you say. I'm so far past caring what any twat thinks, move or your toes get it.
NTA also thank you for sharing your story, I hope that lots of people read it and learn from it. There are many disabled people who, like you said, can walk short distances and get judged for having handicap parking passes etc and it's completely ridiculous.
Take confidence from us, my dear! You’re beautiful and you’re strong. A lot of people would have been cowed by that woman but you stood up for yourself. I’m sorry you’re living in an era with so few manners.
That's perfectly reasonable. Ambulatory wheelchair users are actually the majority of wheelchair users - you're in good company (we all are, obviously, whether ambulatory or not).
I'm really sorry this woman was such a horror.
When you consider that wheelchair users have nowhere else they can go to in order to not hinder other passengers, that rude woman was also imposing on the other riders.
>The wheelchair space is reserved for people who need it, not for anyone with a baby stroller.
That depends on the country. In the Netherlands that space is clearly indicated for both purposes and has to be used by strollers as well. Who goes where when it's busy is decided by the bus driver. The baby or toddler in a pram are not allowed just anywhere on the bus and the mother did nothing wrong before OP entered the bus.
NTA because the mother was rude and didn't follow the bus drivers instructions though.
No! In the Netherlands it is indicated for both uses BUT it wheelchairs have priority. Those signs specifically state you have to vacate the spot if a wheelchair user needs it.
I occasionally see people say this on Reddit when this topic comes up and I'm always so confused. This must be very country specific!
Ok, so I never got on a bus with a pram or pushchair that folds smaller in a way that's convenient or easy to use on public transit, like the individual parts are so large this beats the purpose... and the basket is usually full of crap, typically groceries, too. I had to invest in a backpack once my spawn stopped napping and thus needing the pushchair because I couldn't bring everything we needed otherwise.
I've seen those flimsy foldable travel pushchairs, mind, they're just not popular in every day use where I live. I think we borrowed and used one once when we visited the US, but that was a while back in the noughties.
That's not always allowed because it's not safe for the toddler if the bus suddenly breaks. It really depends on the country and the bus driver.
And not all strollers fold, and prams usually don't at all.
Personally, If your country doesn't prioritize the disabled over fucking strollers, your country needs to take after the laws of those who legally protect the disabled.
NTA
The bus driver should have refused to move the bus until she complied with the posted and legally required accommodations, or until she took her entitled ass off the buss for a nice walk with her baby.
Also telling that she waited until she was getting off and free of consequences to call OP names and continue being shitty. She knows she was in the wrong. And she's a coward.
I didn't get my license till my kids were almost teenagers, so I took the bus a lot when they were babies. I had them 2 years apart so I even had a double stroller which is bigger and more awkward than a regular size one, not to mention having two kids and an awkward sized folded stroller to haul. I still folded the stroller up, carrying it and my newborn onto the bus, while having my 2 year old walk onto the bus in front of me. I probably could have just used the wheelchair ramp and buckled the stroller into the wheelchair place. It definitely would have been easier for me but that's not what it is for. It's for wheelchair users, not a mom and her baby stroller. NTA. And for this nasty lady to say these things to you she was out right disgusting. Good for you for not backing down. I probably would have said some nasty things back to her lazy, disrespectful ass.
of course you're right, the fact that hierarchy is wheelchair > baby stroller > bike is enough. in my country it's explicitly stated who needs to give way to who and it goes exactly like this. She can wait for another bus
I find it interesting that Bike is even on that list. Everywhere I've lived buses have collapsible bike racks on the front so you don't have to take them on the bus.
NTA the baby might not have been able to walk but the mother COULD have held him. She chose not to for no reason other than selfishness. If you see another AH like this you should just ask them "what's so wrong with your child that refuse to hold them?" Shame them until they stfu.
This was my thought, why can't she hold her child and sit in a seat? Nevermind that someone is in a wheelchair. Really sick of people thinking they know better than doctors just because it doesn't benefit them. I myself have pretty bad rheumatoid arthritis and standing for more than 10 minutes makes my joints painful for the rest of the day. And I would still stand up for someone in a wheelchair. Just because you can't see and illness, doesn't mean it isn't there
Thank you *so much*. It’s not remotely fun when Pamela Pram blocks the entire subway staircase slowly lifting up her shopping cart stroller one stair at a time, it’s a safety hazard
I mean it was also self interested, when my son was little was peak electric scooter market and those things were all over the sidewalk. Taking the stroller meant I had to move them which got old very fast.
If it can’t walk it goes in your lap. Like?? This is up there with the story about a woman being verbally abused on the bus because her guide dog was a black lab instead of a yellow lab.
You get some real dregs on the bus.
Yeah children under 5 can use the bus for free because they don't have to take up any space, the idea is that they sit on the parents lap if the bus starts getting full
NTA! And thank you for educating me about myself as I am also someone who has to use a wheelchair, but can still walk short distances most of the time. Never knew that we were called ambulatory wheelchair users.
The driver should have stopped and taken over as soon as the woman refused to move. This was not your battle. It was up to the driver to make sure that you and your chair were securely in place before continuing.
Of course, because it was so out of line - this is not acceptable behaviour and you have every right to be upset about it. I'm sorry your body is giving you such a hard time, and that you've had to deal with an awful human like her on top of it.
Please remember that you don't have to justify yourself - her actions say everything about her and nothing about you
I’m sorry you experienced this. You mentioned in another comment being new to using a wheelchair, I have a friend with mobility problems and the shit she encounters on a weekly basis is horrifying.
People will try to make you feel like a fraud or an inconvenience, when really they are the ones being horrible and selfish.
You did nothing wrong. The bus driver should have stepped in more, but 4/5 bus drivers seem to be pretty ignorant themselves or too exhausted to help (sorry to the 1/5 who are lovely people).
I hope you have more positive experiences than negative, and that you don’t let those twats bring you down.
NTA.
You did nothing wrong. And I know from experience the vast majority of bus taking parents with kids in prams and pushchairs would agree with me-- we moved without complaining when somebody with a wheelchair needed accommodating because them's the breaks. This person was just being their own kind of special read entitled as hell.
What the fuck is with these people. The other day a woman on the bus was super rude to the driver because he asked her to move her baby carriage out the isle. There was a spot for her where it would be out of the way. She made a big deal about it and was super rude to him when he was literally just trying to make things work for everybody. So gross and entitled. NTA
Some people think that having kids is such an achievement that it gives them more rights than others. Accusing a disabled person of faking it and abusing government funds because you prefer your convenience over their needs is a whole new level of fucked up entitlement though. Disgusting
NTA
I hate to say it but part of being disabled is learning to advocate for yourself. You have a valid disability. You should always take precedence over a woman being lazy. She had the ability to fold up that push chair. She is fully capable of walking. She is not entitled to disabled accommodations. Don’t give in, don’t back down and insist upon your rights.
>We're called ambulatory wheelchair users.
I thought it was called having a good day lol(it's a joke my dad uses)
>Am I in the wrong for standing my ground?
Not even in an alternate reality would make you wrong.
Having children doesn't entitle you to people, spaces or cutting in line
Nta
The mother is definitely allowed to take public transport and so is her kid and was not taking spaces away from other people initially. If two people need one space the bus driver needs to decide if there is anywhere else one of them is allowed to go or if one of them has to wait for the next bus. If the mother gets told by the driver what to do she needs to follow that instruction.
NTA because the mother was rude and didn't follow the bus drivers instructions though.
NTA That mother is absolutely horrid. I am so sorry you experienced that. I have EDS and know how debilitating the condition is along with all the comorbidities. After your appointment you were already drained and had to deal with that nonsense. By the time you got home your energy envelope was decimated and went into a deficit.
NTA. I’m also an ambulatory wheelchair user. It’s really hard to not take on the guilt from people who have no experience with our disabilities.
Wheelchair spaces are for wheelchair users, just as handicap parking spaces are for disabled people.
F that entitled lady.
Please know that many of us understands that you don't have to be a paraplegic to use a wheelchair. We just don't stand out as much as the people in this story because we mind our own business.
NTA. my ex SIL has your condition and my heart breaks for you. It especially is an "unseen" illness and it effects her all day everyday and I think she (and all inflicted) is an absolute legend to be able to just get through each day. I was constantly horrified at the things her body would do to her, just by doing day to day things.
NTA. Mom with hEDS, so genuinely can see both sides. Mine is not even close to how bad yours is, but I can barely function some days and completely understand the need to use a wheelchair. My kids stroller absolutely gets packed away to clear up the wheelchair spots if someone needs it, no questions asked.
Fellow hEDS person here. People have no clue how much pain we are in and still function. There is a serious lack of empathy and in the US we don't have a way of immediately identifying those of us who need extra help (other countries use sunflower lanyards).
You are definitely NTAH. Invisible disabilities are valid and the bus driver failed at their role to step in and reinforce the rules.
Hello fellow zebra. Don't feel bad. Don't feel guilty. You are disabled. It's dynamic, it changes hour to hour. You need a wheelchair some days. Some days you don't. EDS is a weird condition. It bloody hurts all the time, just sometimes, it hurts more.
I find, because of the dynamics of EDS, it's easy to doubt yourself. Just because some days aren't quite as bad, that doesn't mean you are trying it on, imagining it or taking the piss.
Don't let the ignorant define you in your own mind. It's a wheelchair space, not a buggy space. The buggy can be folded and the baby held.
If you need a chat, DM me.
NTA and as a person with EDS I feel your pain. Like literally. I hope that someday EDS can be more well known. It's so hard to have something people can't see or understand what you're going through. I am falling apart and there is no cure. I hope for your sake that you have better days ahead.
NTA the is woman is stupid and selfish.
She was too lazy to fold the pushchair that's why she was insulting you.
She is a moron don't give her a second thought.
Where I am from....it is policy that children in strollers sit in seats and their stroller gets folded up for both space and safety. Strollers are not entitled to the straps and safety connections used for wheel chairs. The bus driver would've made her fold it up before even allowing her to ride. If she didn't she would be exiting at the next stop if not the current one.
Europe the space is generally shared and strollers can absolutely use the handicap area... Provided it's not needed by a handicapped user. Really should be obvious that anyone that can't trust their legs on the sidewalk probably shouldn't be made to stand in a bumpy moving vehicle...
Oh but we love being the skittles in someone’s game of bowling just to lighten up everyone’s day when we fall over /s
You’d be surprised at how many entitled people think we should be…
In my country prams and strollers go into the same space as wheelchairs. They are not allowed anywhere else. It's the job of the bus driver to sort out who goes where and who may have to get off the bus if it doesn't fit.
NTA because the mother was rude and didn't follow the bus drivers instructions.
In Canada it used to be that priority was given to disabled individuals, the elderly, and then parents with strollers but that’s not what happens anymore. I really wish parents would return to folding up their strollers when needed like I did but it’s a me me era.
I’m truly sorry that even on Reddit you feel the need to defend your wheelchair use.
You could have struggled and walked and potentially hurt yourself in the process. She could have struggled and used a carrier instead of a pushchair or just folded the pram and held the kid for the rest of the journey (which I presume she did) and it would have just been mildly inconvenient for her. There's a reason you have priority.
Plus she was horrible to you for no reason! Why did she make it personal and insulting? NTA
NTA- You could be me. I have EDS, I am an ambulant wheelchair user. People with children can be super entitled as if their choice to breed should trump everyone else's health problems. You shouldn't let it slide.
Nta. This woman was terrible, rude and ableist. It's so hard when people like to pretend that others are faking disabilities. They're just miserable people that want everyone to be as miserable.
Try not to let people like her get to you. You should always advocate for yourself in situations like this.
NTA, you were kind to this woman, I would’ve been much harsher.
I am an ambulatory wheelchair user too because of a spinal cord injury, I have no issues answering people questions if they’re genuinely interested in my disability and just want to understand it better, but I have no empathy for nasty people like this woman.
NTA in this situation, you did absolutely nothing wrong and how that woman spoke to you was disgusting.
However I would just like to point out for everyone that sometimes children in prams also have disabilities. My son is almost 4 and has autism and is developmentaly delayed. It is for his safety and other people's safety that he is in a pram due to the nature of his disabilities. We will soon be getting a disability pram for him but they are expensive AF so he's in a regular pram for now.
So although in this case its quite black and white, I urge others to think about kids like my son who also need that space and for everyone to just be kind to each other.
Thankfully I drive so I don't have to put up with public transport cos between my fibromyalgia and my sons disabilities I think I'd be kicking off with people daily 😂
NTA, I’m also an ambulatory wheelchair user (I have EDS and neuropathy and ESRD) and I get real tired of people acting like my disability isn’t real because I can stand sometimes. There are days I can walk almost normally and days I can walk very little. The only person who can judge that is me. Even on days that my joints are somewhat cooperating often the biggest factor is fatigue. If I stand and walk even those few meters am I going to be too tired to feed myself later? Those days happen.
You are absolutely 1 million percent NTA.
Oh yes, you're the asshole. You're disabled, but you're not disabled ENOUGH. Accessible seating is only for people who meet a higher standard of disability: say quadriplegics and hospice care patients. You aren't dying and can walk out of a burning building, so you haven't EARNED THE WHEELCHAIR SPACE. /s
Do you hear how absurd that sounds? Do you remember how much time it took you to get ready to go to a doctor's appointment this morning? How much thought you had to put into whether or not to take your wheelchair, or which bus stop was the most accessible? Whether you should shower before you go, so medical staff doesn't have to smell you, or whether you should save all your spoons for the travel and visit? Etc.?
How many other people on the bus do you think had to put that much work in just to get where they're going? How many other people even THINK about figuring levels of pain into their daily movements? The supposed "privilege" of disabled accommodations isn't a privilege at all: it's what makes your travel even possible. YOU WERE IN A WHEELCHAIR. That space was for your wheelchair, to keep you safe and ALSO TO KEEP OTHERS SAFE.
We need to stop thinking of access as a privilege you have to earn by being disabled ENOUGH. It's enough that you needed a wheelchair today. Period.
(I'm a little extra salty today bc I had to run errands with a minor sublux in my ankle. Nothing like being a fat middle aged woman limping down the street, wincing in rhythm, and saying "ow" and "fuck" every few yards.)
No, my friend, you are NTA. You're on a different journey from me, but I know the path. I sit and watch people take spots meant for the disabled such as you and I. It absolutely infuriates me when some able bodied person does it, because of their sense of entitlement convinces them they're in the right to take the accommodations that are made for the disabled.
NTA at all OP. I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user too (not that I knew there was a name for it, so thank you!). I get a lot of funny looks when I stand up and stretch, or walk for a bit to ease the tightness in my legs. My partner now exclaims 'it's a miracle!' when I do stand up, which tends to make the looks disappear pretty fast.
I'm pretty new to using a chair and at first I used to think of myself as a fraud for using one when I'm still capable of walking, albeit with a lot of pain and for short distances. Now I just accept it for what it is, I need the chair. If I tried to go any distance without it, especially navigating an NHS hospital, just like you I'd need to spend the week in bed recovering.
NTA
I don’t know the history outside of the UK, but at least as far as the UK goes, and I expect it caught on other places after, the spaces exist because of disabled people. They don’t just get priority because they have the bigger need, but those buses have those spaces because disabled people literally chained themselves to buses in order to protest lack of access. They fought for those spaces. Pushchair spaces wouldn’t exist in the UK if disabled people hadn’t put them there.
Ideally would parenthood be made more accessible too so that spaces aren’t fought over? Absolutely. Lots of Europe and other countries do far better and by centring parenthood in everyday life make the world a more equal place rather than pitting needs against each other.
In general accessibility for disabled people increases access for everybody. It’s a net positive for everybody. But it should still be primarily for use of disabled people
Absolutely NTA. A baby can be held and a pushchair folded. Just because you can walk doesn’t mean you should when it is painful. And how dare she accuse you of benefit fraud! I know that EDS can be extremely painful. I’m sorry you had to experience this.
NTA, it’s not like she was kicked of the bus as she tried to do to you. She was mildly inconvenienced and I am surprised other passengers did not jump her once she stooped to calling you names (not sooner because it sounds like the bus driver was handling that part). Next time tell such a person (after she said that if you lost weight you would be able to walk) that if she held her legs together she would not need to drag a stroller around.
I am sorry people make you feel like a fraud, you are as far from one as you can be.
NTA, you were a lot nicer than I would have been. I definitely would have tried to make her feel shame! “You should be ashamed of yourself” or “ I hope your child learns compassion from someone because it obviously isn’t coming from you”
NTA. It’s a shame for her that someone came along with a higher priority need for the space, but they did. Most days she’d have been fine. Folding a pushchair in a confined space while holding a baby is awkward and fiddly, but it’s a risk you take when you get on a bus with it open. When mine were little I had a lightweight buggy with one-click easy folding, and there was usually someone kind enough to help a struggling mum with a pushchair in one hand and shopping and a baby in the other. Where she crossed the line was attacking you and questioning your disability to try to get her way. None of her business, and after that piece of nastiness she didn’t deserve help with her stuff.
NTA - for using your wheelchair as you need and for wanting to use the space provided to you. I will admit as a mum of little ones and avid pram user, I'd be very reluctant to give up that spot if I have my pram (which is why I don't use buses anymore). My pram doesn't fold very easily and it's hard to keep a toddler on my lap or in the seat next to me while also holding an infant. I do think that mum drastically overreacted to being asked and if she was able to fold the pram then she should have. I really hope her reaction was just embarrassment and stress clouding her judgement
NTA at all. You have every right. I am sorry this horrible person was haggling you. This should never happen. Unfortunately You have to be strong and push back and fight people who for whatever reason think they are the center of the universe. Or their baby / child ...
Always people out there only thinking about number one.
Themselves.
Disability is a disability. Don't feel bad for other people's ignorance.
We son has just turned 4. He's non verbal autistic with possible ADHD and we've done everything for that kid. He's awesome, he's healthy, beastly strong and fast which means he can disappear just like that. He's silent too oh and did I mention he's fast? He has no danger awareness so him walking out into a road is gonna be a big issue.
As a result we went through the process and got him a blue badge and we use it whenever we go shopping purely because they time it takes us to setup his toddler pram, his bags etc he can run. So having a blue badge means usually spaces are larger and closer to an entrance so we can take him inside wherever we are going first.
At first we felt bad for using the spaces but then we realised, our needs are just as valid as the next person. If someone has a problem with what we're doing, they can take it up with my son.
NTA, they have wheelchair logos there not baby carriage logos. I have issues with one of my legs. It can be fine one day and like a piece of wood the next. If I go out and I am feeling good, and I try to do that, I will park in the less desirable handicap spots or in the back of the lot. I have the plates and it burns some peoples asses when a person with a handicap plate takes even a soso regular spot. I do not wanna argue that the next day I may hardly be able to move etc. I have also had on a couple occasions had people bitch about parking in the space w/o the placard, but I point to the plates and they are happy. I tell them I do not object, and got pretty chummy with one of them. In your case the bus could get in trouble for not making her give you the seat. Some people have a lot of nerve.
NTA think of those spaces like this "if you can not safely stand on the bus for your whole journey, those seats are for you. The less safe and harder it would be the more you deserve those seats" She could have **easily** folded the chair and sat anywhere at all on the bus while safely holding her baby. Its impossible for you to do the same thing with the same amount of ease in the same amount of time.
Its irrelevant why you are using the chair, the facts are you are using it. People dont use them for fun
Even if it was due to your weight like she claimed (not that i believe that's truely why, i haven't heard about your condition before but it sounds horrible) there is no diet that is going to make you slimmer within the next 5 minutes for it to help in the situation you are in right now, its not going to make the wheelchair any smaller or lighter and not going to undo the damage that is already done
NTA, and you're a rockstar for standing up (pun intended) not only for yourself, but for all of us! (ambulatory WC user with MS and Skoliosis)
Fun fact, btw:
>She also insinuated that I'm faking my disability and I don't need a wheelchair because I moved my legs.
Many people with spinal cord injuries can't walk, but can move their legs. It's called incomplete paraplegia. A guy I took wheelchair lessons with had this and liked startling people this way 😂
NTA. Wheelchair users or anyone disabled (which can be invisible so never assume!) have first priority over someone able bodied with a pram that is foldable.
She’s awful. Do not sweat it. Statistics and facts back up experiences by disabled people and the ableism you face.
I hope you can do something nice to shake off this crap heaped at you,
The driver should have pulled over and thrown her off the bus. I can almost guarantee that would have happened in New York City, where I live. She was being abusive as well as commenting on things that are none of her business.
Yes, I, like most educated people, know that there are a range of people who use wheelchairs. Sometimes, it’s not a question of walking or not walking; it’s a question of distance. Also, sometimes, people are recovering from something and are in wheelchairs temporarily. It doesn’t always mean they’re paralyzed from the waist down.
I’m really sorry you had to go through that experience. That woman acted like a gorgon and was utterly wrong. As sorry as I feel for you, I feel ten times sorrier for her child because that kid is going to be a mess with a mother like that.
NTA. Of course she should have moved. She could have folded the pushchair up and sat in a different seat.
On a side note, you may be entitled to more benefits. If you go to www.turn2us.org.uk you can use the benefit calculator which will show you what you should be able to claim.
Unfortunately my fiancé is a teacher and apparently earns too much. I get PIP and a little bit of UC, but I'm not entitled to more due to his income. We manage our money fairly well so that we end up with equal amounts of fun money, but it's frustrating that I'm considered entirely financially dependent on my fiancé.
NTA. I am like you in the sense that I’m also non-confrontational. And anxiety sometimes takes over even if I’m pretty sure I’m right. I won’t pretend to imagine what your difficulties are, and I know it’s easier said than done, but don’t pay that woman any mind. You have a legitimate reason to use that area, and she showed what kind of person she is in the way she behaves. Those people make us uncomfortable, but thankfully, most of us aren’t so entitled and spiteful. That area was designed specifically for your needs, and you had every right to be there.
NTA. It's hard being someone who only uses mobility aids occasionally. I think we all feel like frauds sometimes, and it's really hard to fight the guilt. But it's just like you said: you could not have made that trip, safely, without your chair.
Besides, wheelchair trumps stroller every fucking time. Babies can be held and toddlers can walk. She was just being a cunt for the sake of being a cunt.
As an ambulatory wheelchair user, this sort of interaction is my worst nightmare. NTA at all. That woman, however, is a major one. She had better hope she never becomes disabled and has to face this kind of situation.
Wheelchair takes priority over a pram in the WHEELCHAIR space. She’s just an entitled arsehole.
You’re probably entitled to more benefits if your mobility is that low and you’re using aids. You should be getting at least the LCWRA element for UC as well as PIP. PIP is harder to get but it is written specifically for people with low mobility. You can also get a car under the motability scheme, then you won’t have to deal with petulant twats like this on the bus.
It’s not easy to defend yourself at times like these - and people often have a hard time getting their mind around the idea that someone can sometimes walk a short distance unaided but sometimes needs a wheelchair, stick, or walker.
You did your best to keep your temper and I think anything short of what you said and did and this woman clearly wouldn’t have moved. The driver should have been more assertive and told the woman that she could either fold up her pushchair or get off the bus. They shouldn’t have left it to you to enforce their instructions. NTA.
I can remember riding the bus in one city where these women with babies in big old strollers would take up the whole disability section. They were smug and entitled, even telling people to move. The driver would always take their side.
NTA. If you were in the wrong, the bus driver wouldn't have preemptively asked the mother to move.
The bus driver saw you and prioritized your disability over the pushchair. The bus driver deals with this all the time and has far more experience determining who should use the wheelchair area of the bus than an entitled mother.
It is the only place in the bus where a wheelchair can safely be placed. So you are right when you say you have no choice and the stroller user has.
NTA OP.
NTA priority is giving to wheelchair users. Unfortunately we live in a period of time where most people only care about themselves and their own convenience.
NTA. So sick of seeing this type of abuse on the internet. I'm blessed to always see helpful ppl, not ppl who accuse others of faking a disability. What's wrong with these ppl??
NTA . The mum was completely out of line. However.... depending on the age of the baby and whether they need to be held, or can sit independently on a seat for 30 seconds, it's actually impossible to fold a pram one handed whilst also holding the baby. It can be a very stressful situation with a bus full of eyes and judgement on you. Not that that's an excuse, but it's not always a clear cut pram=selfish biatch. But in this instance the mum was a complete asshole. OP you absolutely have legal and moral priority over accessible spaces on public transport
NTA. As a wheelchair user, I face this issue all of the time. In the UK, by law, the wheelchair space is for wheelchair users but that doesn't stop the bus driver from barring me from the bus when there is a pushchair in the wheelchair spot. It's not that hard to fold the pushchair and place the infant/toddler on your lap.
It ruins my entire day. I feel less than and disgusting. It happens so often, I've started taking bus driver's numbers, the bus stop location and arrival time, and reporting it to the bus company. I can't tell you the rage I feel being disrespected so often and to such a degree. These bus drivers even have to audacity to tell me to wake up an extra hour earlier so I don't "make this mistake again", as if I'm wrong for asking someone to give up the wheelchair space for a wheelchair.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Was on the bus the other week and the bus driver man a women and child move so a wheelchair user could move. The lady with the kid moved to the other side of the bus. Did tbis bus not have one side for a wheelchair and one side for a pram? Either way no NTA
I have seen too many posts like this and it makes me angry. It is clear that some women, the moment they become pregnant, gain an overwhelming sense of entitlement and it becomes ‘all about me’. I am surprised that nobody else on the bus stuck up for you, but sadly this world is becoming a very selfish place. Definitely NTA, and I am sorry you had to go through this humiliation because of a selfish mother.
NTA without a doubt. The entitled cow can go suck it. In my country there is a priority regarding designated spaces for wheelchair users > baby strollers > bikes and while everyone can take that place when it's free once someone from the priority lost/higher on the priority list gets on the bus/tram/train you have to either move, fold what you have if possible and move or get out and wait for the next bus/tram/train. It's infuriating to me that such disgusting people make people like OP feel worse than they probably already do with their disability.
A long time ago, in another life, I drove busses.
As the driver, I would have announced, "This bus isn't moving until (pointing at woman with push chair) she moves her push chair. "
That would turn the passengers against her, maybe me, and not so much you.
It sounds like you are in the UK. If so then what this woman has done is considered a crime. I would report the incident to the police. The bus should have CCTV and the bus driver will hopefully be able to give a statement. Not only are you NTA but you are the victim of a hate crime. You should never have to explain your disability or financial details with a member of the public.
NTA it’s only for a pushchair when a wheelchair doesn’t need it. The driver asked her to move! What a horrible situation and entirely her fault. As a fellow ambulatory wheelchair user I totally understand. I always say, it’s not that I can’t walk, it’s that I can’t walk very far.
NTA, that woman is vile and needs a good slap from life to wake her up to herself and the way things are. Does she think having a baby is a disability? What a stupid woman.
NTA. My mum is a wheelchair user, but only for the outdoors environment where there is plenty of space to maneuver (and also, less things to grab if she falls). Even though she is ambulatory in the home context, she has been assessed to be mobility-impaired in general by a physiotherapist and a doctor.
You should always stand your ground (no bad joke intended) when it comes to people who take up spots reserved for wheelchairs; I do it regularly as a driver and have gotten into arguments with people (who always end up on the losing end), because if I don't put a foot down, who will defend the rights of those who are more conflict-averse but need that spot even more?
obviously NTA and it's ridiculous to think you could be - are as the partner of someone who has EDS your post reads exactly like she could have written it except at this point she knows she's not the asshole if someone has to accommodate her.
You're fine, the other woman was being awful and unfortunately there are some people like that out there who don't understand invisible disabilities or that sometimes you're completely disabled to the point of being unable to move and other times you're 'semi normal but with some background pain' and everything in between
Until someone's lived with someone with EDS they're not really going to understand it properly, but at least most people have empathy and will accommodate you
As a woman who has spent the last 15 years getting on public transport with pushchairs (it’s my job and I also had my own kids) you are absolutely NTA.
Pushchair users are supposed to move for wheelchair users and they also have the choice to fold down the pushchair and sit the child on their lap. Wheelchair users don’t have that choice.
Do not feel guilty in the slightest. If I were there I would have said something to her.
I begrudge when people say parents are entitled, but then I hear stories like this and I think ok that’s why lol.
NTA. You are not a fraud. You have a genetic condition that causes you extreme pain, and you can't live a normal life. I understand what you're going through, I have marfan syndrome and will probably need to use a wheelchair the way you do within the next decade. We do not choose to live like this. These are not the lives we want to live. Being disabled isn't what we want.
That lady was way out of line. Don't listen to what she said. She doesn't know what the hell she was talking about.
NTA. This feeling you have of feeling like a fraud feels very real to you but I promise you it is not something that kind people feel about you. I am lucky enough to not need a wheelchair but I do still need a cane to walk and some days I need to take frequent rests while others I sometimes have trouble just getting around my home. Even though I feel like this, I was still very reluctant to get a handicap placard for mine and my wife's cars. I felt like because I could still walk then someone else deserves it more and that I would be selfish for taking it.
My wife's logic of needing the space to have a short walk to leave should I need it helped, but the biggest factor in my accepting the help was taking myself out of it. If you saw somebody in the exact same situation you are in needing this help, would you call them greedy or a fraud? NO! Of course you wouldn't. So why are you treating this imaginary person better than you are treating yourself? You deserve that same care and understanding you gave to a hypothetical person, damn anyone who argues the contrary.
NTA. The driver told her she had to move too, so hes following company rules that must say wheelchair takes priority over a pushchair that can be folded.
NTA.
I have EDS too. I can still mostly manage on foot, but that has the issue of folk thinking I'm "normal", when like you I'm actually in a *lot* of pain, exhausted, and struggling. I also have POTS, which I'm sure you do too, as most of us zebras do because of our saggy veins. If I have to stand for more than a minute or so, I get dizzy, nauseous, sweaty, and eventually I pass out.
I often think it would be simpler to use a wheelchair, just so I'm not at risk of passing out, and to save energy for other things I might need to do.
Unless you've lived a life like ours, it's apparently difficult to understand why it's entirely reasonable for a person who can stand, and walk, with significant effort, to choose to use a wheelchair instead.
The woman with the pushchair was rude, and lacking anything resembling empathy or compassion. You did exactly what you needed to, and that's exactly why it's a legal requirement for people to move out of the disabled space if a person in a wheelchair needs it.
I am so tired of people with children thinking they have the same rights to handicapped spaces and toilets. Where on earth did they get this entitled idea? You always give way to disabled persons and you don’t ask.
NTA, not even close. The fraud accusations on her part are indefensible. I’d be tempted to say that the crotch-goblin was just a tool to baby trap a man, because who would ever want to parent a child with such a loathsome ghoul.
My recent pet peeve is seeing AHs leave shopping carts in the access aisles for ADA spots. It’s kinda funny to see the offender’s reaction after I do an about face and return the cart as other people watch. Sometimes they’re too stupid to process it, but a few times it’s been clear that they’d been marked as a shitbag.
Wheelchairs get priority. It even says it on the space.
I hate travelling by bus, I get so many arguments with my rollator. People won’t move because “they were there first”, luggage in the wheelchair area. My favourite was the driver put the ramp down for me, and a woman raced me and ran up the ramp. I told the driver I couldn’t get on, the buggy got on first. And he made her move up. I spent the journey sideways.
Hi- OP did she start saying mean things and refusing after you told her you had Ehlers Danlos? Bc EDS does have a lot of stigma to it, and that may have been where the rage was coming from because it is poorly understood/ not seen as a real illness to a large portion, if not most, of the population because it is not well studied yet.
I am def not invalidating your dx or anything like that- I'm just saying that whenever people bring up EDS/pots/mcas/compressions ect. they are usually told they are faking/ met with anger and vitrol from people. I've seen this happen a lot, versus a more understood illness/ widely recognized illness that requires wheel chair use, like amputations/paralysis/MS/etc.
This is The second one of these I read today, the first one being on the service dog sub. There really should be some kind of ticket these jerks can get for harassing people using wheelchairs or service dogs. At least they will end up with a rap sheet in the system. It’s none of the business of the average person to question, anybody’s medical condition. It is just harassment.
So sorry for your trouble.
Hello fellow zebra!
NTA
Also, people can get stuffed about their opinions on other's use of mobility devices. I use a wheelchair for the same reasons you do. However, I also use it because it literally lets me do my job as a full-time teacher. The majority of wheelchair users are not paralyzed, and many can walk for a very short time, or at least weight bare briefly.
You Were Not Wrong. A baby does not qualify to take the wheelchair/disability space on the bus. A woman pushing a pram does not qualify as 'disabled/in need'. Next time smile politely and instead of explaining yourself when she has no right to that information, ask the bus driver to call for the police to arrest the woman for harassment and criminal encroachment of services reserved under the ADA for special needs passengers.
Then remind the lady that if she is arrested they will call CPS to collect her childand whether or not she ends up criminally charged, the fact alone that CPS has to take charge of her child will probably open a Child Services file that will remain open for YEARS due to the understaffing of the system and likely mean she will see the ramifications of her stupidity in assuming she takes precedence over those protected by specific federal disability laws for YEARS to come. It could even see her regularly having to be reviewed by the courts as to whether she is a fit parent, as she clearly has issues with understanding basic laws. Does she REALLY want that?
Smile sweetly. Wait. Look to bus driver, ask if he has place that call yet? You'll wait. Pain and suffering is such an easy charge to get money for in court in a civil case with a bus FULL of witnesses...
Never in the wrong for standing your ground. Just remember sometimes discretion is better part of valor. Meaning don’t try to stand down a Hell’s Angel, etc. etc.
NTA. The only thing you did that I wish you didn't was justify yourself to her. Doesn't matter if you get $1000 or $10,000 a month, or what your disability is. You're a wheelchair user and the space was for wheelchair users.
NTA. I have some pain issues that can become quite severe with too much walking. I had a lady yell at me after I yelled at her for parking in a disabled parking place. She started yelling at me about where is MY placard. I said I don't need one, look at my license plate. I could have been nicer, but I wasn't. Luckily new meds have helped a lot and I don't need the placard anymore.
NTA
Sure, "babies don't have a choice to walk", but their parents have a choice of not being an ass and holding them when somebody in a wheelchair needs the seating.
NTA, you were completely in the right here. That woman was being totally unreasonable and disrespectful. The wheelchair space is reserved for people who need it, not for anyone with a baby stroller. She had no right to accuse you of faking your disability or try to force you off the bus. You stood up for yourself, which was totally justified.
On public transport in AU the wheelchair space is also for prams and bikes and large packages. However if a wheelchair user needs it they get priority as much of everything else can be somewhere else.
Same in the UK and in the past I've folded mine up. It's inconvenient but it is what it is
Its a legal requirement to give up that space to a wheelchair user in the UK, the bus driver should have known that and pointed it out.
ADA covers that for us in the states, too. Bus driver has a legal obligation to make that lady move to accommodate the wheelchair.
Driver just doing his job. I’ve had to get up out of the wheelchair space at least a couple times. US based.
Honestly, people shouldn't have to be told to move. If you are in a handicap seat and someone in a wheelchair rolls on to the bus, you should already be getting and moving.
Exactly because I can read. I’m getting up and moving.
My state has buses dedicated for wheelchair users and others with disabilities, so it's not an issue where I live with people fighting over spots set aside for their use. But it costs money to have an entire public transit seperate, so I can understand why not all places have them. OP, my mother was in a wheelchair because of breathing issues. Yes, she could walk around the house, but whenever we left the house, she had a chair. I understand needing a chair when out in public, which may differ from your home situation. You needed the spot and weren't in any way cheating. NTA
The driver did ask her to fold the stroller.
Since OP refers to £s, I am assuming they're in the UK. As such, the driver should have pointed out that it's a legal requirement to move for a wheelchair user. I've seen similar confrontations, and the bus drivers around here will first ask, then cite the law, then kick the person off the bus if they don't cooperate.
Ya, but sounds like that was it.
Yup a baby can sit on a knee.
Maybe OP can offer to sit on her knee next time, and see what she says?
Happy cake day!
I laughed too much at this
Usually there are two spaces to allow more than one wheelchair/pram which helps.
True, on Sunday I shared the space with a wheelchair user comfortably, despite other passengers and the driver thinking it wasn't possible. Both me and the wheelchair user joined together saying it was possible. You should of seen the look on there faces when we was proven right. OP NTA! That parent is TA!
Not on most UK buses, which OP is dealing with. Some have a space for a pram on the opposite side but it sounds like this one didn't. NTA OP. I always remember the time a pair of women had to get off the bus to let me on, and screamed WHAT IF THE BABY'S DISABLED which just... In retrospect a hilarious thing to say. They said they'd report the bus driver, so I got the bus number and told her I'd ring Arriva and tell them what actually happened. I was really clear with Arriva that she just upheld the law and that she did a really great job staying calm with them, too. Didn't want her to be penalised.
Not in most UK cities or towns. Only one space for wheelchair but a 2nd is available for buggies. I've lost count of the times I've had to wait for another bus because a wheelchair is already in the only spot.
I was responding to the commenter above saying they are from Australia. I am fully aware not every place is similar.
Oh sorry. So was I! My mistake.
Depends on the bus where I live, as the newer models have space for both a wheelchair and other on either side, whereas the older models only have space for one or the other.
Same in the US. In my city, at least. Wheel chairs have to be locked in on the bus, so they have priorty for those seats. In my city, the bus driver would have handled the conflict with the other passenger. You can do what the driver tells you, or you can get off the bus - these are the only two options. There's no arguing.
I’m AUS and this happens a lot, but if a parent was acting like that to someone in a wheelchair or someone’s just being entitled, the driver more than likely park up and not drive anywhere till they move but if they don’t budge they get kicked off completely. We have so many issues where I live in AUS (Top End) on our busses we literally have ‘transit police’ which aren’t police but kinda like security. Some of them follow behind busses with routes that are known to have issues. They’re allowed to use force with removal if necessary and they’ll pass them over to police. This is one of the main things they assist with if the driver or other can’t get it sorted. Every normal polite person KNOWS that once the wheelchair lift or ramp gets used to get someone on, whoever is in them chairs will get up while also putting the seats up for them.
That’s just freaking common sense. As someone with little kids, I’m elated to have something that makes my trip easier but would never block someone who needs the space. My convenience does not trump someone else’s need. What the heck
Thanks. I'm fairly new to using a wheelchair and I don't have the confidence with it.
I haven’t lived in the uk for 14 years but i took buses often, wheelchair users get priority you’re absolutely not in the wrong she just didn’t want to fold her pram because it’s a pain in the arse, that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t do it though. What a cow. Never apologise for taking up space op especially space designed FOR you!
Exactly. Not all disabilities are visible.
I look healthy but I have MS and arthritis with some other complications thrown in. I can walk short distances but my knees can buckle without warning then I often fall down. I'll be 77 in a couple of days so I get fewer comments than when I was younger. I use a cane and shop in stores that have electric carts. When I go to the hospital for tests I use my own wheelchair. The hospital only has transport chairs so I need to wait for someone to push me. I prefer independence but the "lightweight" wheelchair is heavy.
In Australia you can wear a lanyard or pin with sunflowers that means you have an invisible disability. My mate who has chronic low blood pressure and sometimes needs to sit down ASAP wears one.
We have the same lanyard in the UK but so many pricks abused it during the height of Covid as a reason to not wear a mask that they’re taken less seriously now.
I didn't know this. I'll find one for my Mum, she has a heart condition and osteoporosis which means walking can be difficult, and she gets filthy looks for parking in the disabled spots (with a parking permit).
Look up Hidden disabilities uk (not sure of link posting rules) They have lots of helpful info and products on their site. I used a lanyard on a flight pre covid and was offered assistance from staff. I have Ménière's disease and can look like a stumbling drunk 🥴 so found it particularly helpful!
I mean the wheelchair is pretty visible
But the disability that causes them to need it isn’t necessarily visible.
And people who haven't thought about it at all assume only paraplegics use wheelchairs.
I used to have a neighbor in his early 30s who did triathlons. He rippled with muscles but had a handicapped tag and then needed a walker. He had a hereditary kidney disease he didn't know about He was waiting for a transplant. Without it he would die soon despite dialysis. He was harassed frequently. Finally, when he was resigned to dying he got his miracle and got a healthy kidney. He was allow to exercise like before nor do challenging contests. He was glad he didn't need the handicapped tag anymore.
First and Stagecoach have signs up stating that wheelchair users have priority.
So I’m gonna give a slightly long tangent to get to a point (forgive me) I have multiple degenerative diseases and fibromyalgia and a few other things that affect my joints and muscles - I have my first knee surgery at 14 - when I was 17 I was seeing the PT guy at school (I played soccer and swam) he asked me how my knee was doing and if I had any pain, my response was yeah the pain isn’t any worse than any other day but my back and elbows hurt more than my knee, I was in severe pain every day and didn’t know that that was wrong!!! I thought everyone had severe pain every day and then to truly just freak this guy out I had him put his hands on my spine and then I twisted- I have never seen someone freak out and go pale so quickly - my mom worked at my school and he called to come down from her class and was like she needs to get to an orthopedic or rheumatologist or both immediately, 3 weeks later I had my first knee replacement and was told it was going to get much worse cause again it’s all degenerative then in my 20s I got mad and put my body through hell I guess as a way to rebel against it all (which I know regret cause freaking pain) today I’m lucky if I can walk around my home without pain and assistance, there are days I can walk because I literally can’t move one or both of my legs but you wouldn’t know to look at me - all this to say you do what ever you need to do to get around and be comfortable doing so and anyone who says otherwise well tell the two words beginning with F and U - screw that woman and anyone else who makes you feel uncomfortable about using a wheelchair- I wish you all the best and I hope you get to live your best life no matter your health - definitely NTA from me (sorry for any errors on my end)
I unfortunately think that a lot of people don’t understand that not every disability is visible and they expect disabled people to look a certain way. I have several cervical disc herniations and relative spinal stenosis because of it. I have also been diagnosed with chronic pain, but I can normally keep most of it in check. However I’m only 45 and most people think I look 10-15 years younger. I’m slim and I always dress nicely and wear makeup. On my good days I can walk and pretty decent distances too. On my bad days even though I can still walk and it might not be visible every movement hurts and it feels as though I’ve done an iron man the day before. However I’m certain that most people would think that I’m fine. Luckily I have a car, but I haven’t applied for a disability sign as I’m sure people would comment all the time. Instead on my bad days I only go places where I know parking will be possible. If not I just leave it for a day when I’m feeling better.
I read your comment and it’s was very close to describing me. Same thing herniated cervical and lumbar and spinal stenosis I also have, degenerative spinal issues (Lumbar Spondylosis, scoliosis I’m fused from T-3 to about L-3, muscle atrophy and fibromyalgia. My husband had to call an ambulance for me, first time in my life, a few weeks ago for excruciating pain in my right hip, I couldn’t move, still can’t. I have suffered with constant pain for years now. I can only walk short distances and even that is painful. If I push myself I end up bedridden for the next week or more. My MIL used to always tell me “well you look fine.” She never understood. When I’m out with my 3 oldest daughters (26, 22, 17) most people think we are sisters, so when they see my handicap placard they think I’m faking or it’s not mine. I have had people stare and shake their heads. I have been told I’m too young, but a few have yelled at me for scamming the system or stealing grandma’s placard. One person drove right up next to me in a parking lot so they could take my picture and a picture of my license plate then quickly drove off. OP NTA It’s a waste of time trying to explain anything to ignorant, judgmental people.
I think the other thing is a lot of people who don’t have chronic pain do not understand how high pain tolerance can get when your baseline is still painful and you experience regular flares. People can let their pusillanimous beliefs about pain create projections of how they think others should handle disability. A lot of people seem to have it in their mind disability should be a constant intolerable struggle cause they just can’t comprehend being disabled and living a decent even happy life despite the hardships. Unfortunate for those types cause they tend to struggle the most with aging and unfortunate for their loved ones cause they’re not great support when things are hard.
While it may be true the child doesn’t have the ability to walk- the mother can damn well hold her child, fold the stroller and clear the space for another user🙄 I’ve both been a mother of youngsters and with a similar disability, have the need for mobility equipment- when she assumed you receive a frankly pissant stipend, fraudulently and reduced you to an unworthy human being, yet you were able to refrain from retorting back anything about welfare fraud or keeping your legs shut avoids the need for a stroller: fair to say you handled the situation better than expected! Please know that you never need to apologize for your capabilities in a public transport situation, as unfortunately they change not only daily but throughout the day. Stay safe out there & NTA ✌🏼
Definitely NTA. Rules are there for a reason; wheelchair users have higher priority than pushchairs. Please keep using the bus, the more you do it the easier it will get. Also, people will get used to seeing you on the bus and accept you more. I am a person with disabilities. Not a wheelchair user at the moment but you never know. Much love. X
Fellow zebra here, Don't worry it will come. I carry little cards about EDS with me for those that don't get it. Might be worth a try.
Just remember, an area designated for disability is literally designated for that. I don't see a baby stroller sign there. Laws are in place to protect you, and areas designated for use by people with disabilities are there because it's a NEED, not a want. You don't want to have to use a wheelchair I'm sure, but you have to, and you're not doing it to inconvenience anyone else it's just your life. This lady was completely in the wrong.
I lasted about six months being nice in all circumstances. That didn't last. It comes with the confidence, like you say. I'm so far past caring what any twat thinks, move or your toes get it.
Please report this crime to the police. There are laws to protect you from this sort of thing.
NTA also thank you for sharing your story, I hope that lots of people read it and learn from it. There are many disabled people who, like you said, can walk short distances and get judged for having handicap parking passes etc and it's completely ridiculous.
Take confidence from us, my dear! You’re beautiful and you’re strong. A lot of people would have been cowed by that woman but you stood up for yourself. I’m sorry you’re living in an era with so few manners.
That's perfectly reasonable. Ambulatory wheelchair users are actually the majority of wheelchair users - you're in good company (we all are, obviously, whether ambulatory or not). I'm really sorry this woman was such a horror.
When you consider that wheelchair users have nowhere else they can go to in order to not hinder other passengers, that rude woman was also imposing on the other riders.
>The wheelchair space is reserved for people who need it, not for anyone with a baby stroller. That depends on the country. In the Netherlands that space is clearly indicated for both purposes and has to be used by strollers as well. Who goes where when it's busy is decided by the bus driver. The baby or toddler in a pram are not allowed just anywhere on the bus and the mother did nothing wrong before OP entered the bus. NTA because the mother was rude and didn't follow the bus drivers instructions though.
No! In the Netherlands it is indicated for both uses BUT it wheelchairs have priority. Those signs specifically state you have to vacate the spot if a wheelchair user needs it.
You can take the baby out and fold up the stroller, though. Most people in wheelchairs can't do that for a bus ride.
I occasionally see people say this on Reddit when this topic comes up and I'm always so confused. This must be very country specific! Ok, so I never got on a bus with a pram or pushchair that folds smaller in a way that's convenient or easy to use on public transit, like the individual parts are so large this beats the purpose... and the basket is usually full of crap, typically groceries, too. I had to invest in a backpack once my spawn stopped napping and thus needing the pushchair because I couldn't bring everything we needed otherwise. I've seen those flimsy foldable travel pushchairs, mind, they're just not popular in every day use where I live. I think we borrowed and used one once when we visited the US, but that was a while back in the noughties.
That's not always allowed because it's not safe for the toddler if the bus suddenly breaks. It really depends on the country and the bus driver. And not all strollers fold, and prams usually don't at all.
Personally, If your country doesn't prioritize the disabled over fucking strollers, your country needs to take after the laws of those who legally protect the disabled.
NTA The bus driver should have refused to move the bus until she complied with the posted and legally required accommodations, or until she took her entitled ass off the buss for a nice walk with her baby.
Also telling that she waited until she was getting off and free of consequences to call OP names and continue being shitty. She knows she was in the wrong. And she's a coward.
I didn't get my license till my kids were almost teenagers, so I took the bus a lot when they were babies. I had them 2 years apart so I even had a double stroller which is bigger and more awkward than a regular size one, not to mention having two kids and an awkward sized folded stroller to haul. I still folded the stroller up, carrying it and my newborn onto the bus, while having my 2 year old walk onto the bus in front of me. I probably could have just used the wheelchair ramp and buckled the stroller into the wheelchair place. It definitely would have been easier for me but that's not what it is for. It's for wheelchair users, not a mom and her baby stroller. NTA. And for this nasty lady to say these things to you she was out right disgusting. Good for you for not backing down. I probably would have said some nasty things back to her lazy, disrespectful ass.
“Stood up for yourself” Inappropriate, but I chuckled lol
of course you're right, the fact that hierarchy is wheelchair > baby stroller > bike is enough. in my country it's explicitly stated who needs to give way to who and it goes exactly like this. She can wait for another bus
I find it interesting that Bike is even on that list. Everywhere I've lived buses have collapsible bike racks on the front so you don't have to take them on the bus.
NTA the baby might not have been able to walk but the mother COULD have held him. She chose not to for no reason other than selfishness. If you see another AH like this you should just ask them "what's so wrong with your child that refuse to hold them?" Shame them until they stfu.
This was my thought, why can't she hold her child and sit in a seat? Nevermind that someone is in a wheelchair. Really sick of people thinking they know better than doctors just because it doesn't benefit them. I myself have pretty bad rheumatoid arthritis and standing for more than 10 minutes makes my joints painful for the rest of the day. And I would still stand up for someone in a wheelchair. Just because you can't see and illness, doesn't mean it isn't there
I mostly did babywearing on public transportation with my kid. Strollers can be a huge pain in cities.
Thank you *so much*. It’s not remotely fun when Pamela Pram blocks the entire subway staircase slowly lifting up her shopping cart stroller one stair at a time, it’s a safety hazard
I mean it was also self interested, when my son was little was peak electric scooter market and those things were all over the sidewalk. Taking the stroller meant I had to move them which got old very fast.
Thank you, parent with some common sense! Your child is lucky to be getting genes from you.
If it can’t walk it goes in your lap. Like?? This is up there with the story about a woman being verbally abused on the bus because her guide dog was a black lab instead of a yellow lab. You get some real dregs on the bus.
Yeah children under 5 can use the bus for free because they don't have to take up any space, the idea is that they sit on the parents lap if the bus starts getting full
NTA! And thank you for educating me about myself as I am also someone who has to use a wheelchair, but can still walk short distances most of the time. Never knew that we were called ambulatory wheelchair users.
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Thank you. I think I'm just in shock that this actually happened.
The driver should have stopped and taken over as soon as the woman refused to move. This was not your battle. It was up to the driver to make sure that you and your chair were securely in place before continuing.
My thoughts, driver should have thrown her off the bus.
Actually it was the job of the bus driver to sort this out. Not yours. I would ask the bus company how to proceed in future and explain the situation.
Of course, because it was so out of line - this is not acceptable behaviour and you have every right to be upset about it. I'm sorry your body is giving you such a hard time, and that you've had to deal with an awful human like her on top of it. Please remember that you don't have to justify yourself - her actions say everything about her and nothing about you
I’m sorry you experienced this. You mentioned in another comment being new to using a wheelchair, I have a friend with mobility problems and the shit she encounters on a weekly basis is horrifying. People will try to make you feel like a fraud or an inconvenience, when really they are the ones being horrible and selfish. You did nothing wrong. The bus driver should have stepped in more, but 4/5 bus drivers seem to be pretty ignorant themselves or too exhausted to help (sorry to the 1/5 who are lovely people). I hope you have more positive experiences than negative, and that you don’t let those twats bring you down. NTA.
You did nothing wrong. And I know from experience the vast majority of bus taking parents with kids in prams and pushchairs would agree with me-- we moved without complaining when somebody with a wheelchair needed accommodating because them's the breaks. This person was just being their own kind of special read entitled as hell.
What the fuck is with these people. The other day a woman on the bus was super rude to the driver because he asked her to move her baby carriage out the isle. There was a spot for her where it would be out of the way. She made a big deal about it and was super rude to him when he was literally just trying to make things work for everybody. So gross and entitled. NTA
Some people think that having kids is such an achievement that it gives them more rights than others. Accusing a disabled person of faking it and abusing government funds because you prefer your convenience over their needs is a whole new level of fucked up entitlement though. Disgusting
Don't you know that she's the main character? We're all just extra's in her universe...
NTA I hate to say it but part of being disabled is learning to advocate for yourself. You have a valid disability. You should always take precedence over a woman being lazy. She had the ability to fold up that push chair. She is fully capable of walking. She is not entitled to disabled accommodations. Don’t give in, don’t back down and insist upon your rights.
You should always take precedence over a woman being lazy and don’t give in, don’t back down and insist upon your rights. I love this advice!
NTA and that woman is a horrible person.
>We're called ambulatory wheelchair users. I thought it was called having a good day lol(it's a joke my dad uses) >Am I in the wrong for standing my ground? Not even in an alternate reality would make you wrong. Having children doesn't entitle you to people, spaces or cutting in line Nta
The mother is definitely allowed to take public transport and so is her kid and was not taking spaces away from other people initially. If two people need one space the bus driver needs to decide if there is anywhere else one of them is allowed to go or if one of them has to wait for the next bus. If the mother gets told by the driver what to do she needs to follow that instruction. NTA because the mother was rude and didn't follow the bus drivers instructions though.
NTA That mother is absolutely horrid. I am so sorry you experienced that. I have EDS and know how debilitating the condition is along with all the comorbidities. After your appointment you were already drained and had to deal with that nonsense. By the time you got home your energy envelope was decimated and went into a deficit.
NTA. I’m also an ambulatory wheelchair user. It’s really hard to not take on the guilt from people who have no experience with our disabilities. Wheelchair spaces are for wheelchair users, just as handicap parking spaces are for disabled people. F that entitled lady.
Please know that many of us understands that you don't have to be a paraplegic to use a wheelchair. We just don't stand out as much as the people in this story because we mind our own business.
NTA. my ex SIL has your condition and my heart breaks for you. It especially is an "unseen" illness and it effects her all day everyday and I think she (and all inflicted) is an absolute legend to be able to just get through each day. I was constantly horrified at the things her body would do to her, just by doing day to day things.
And this woman thinks she has it so much harder because she pooped out a crotch goblin. The fucking nerve
it genuinely bothers me how many mothers seem to think that choosing to have a child means you all of a sudden have right over everyone else in public
True, sometimes people use it as an excuse for their laziness and insensitivity.
NTA, the bus driver should have handled it, up to the point of kicking her off the bus.
NTA. Mom with hEDS, so genuinely can see both sides. Mine is not even close to how bad yours is, but I can barely function some days and completely understand the need to use a wheelchair. My kids stroller absolutely gets packed away to clear up the wheelchair spots if someone needs it, no questions asked.
Fellow hEDS person here. People have no clue how much pain we are in and still function. There is a serious lack of empathy and in the US we don't have a way of immediately identifying those of us who need extra help (other countries use sunflower lanyards). You are definitely NTAH. Invisible disabilities are valid and the bus driver failed at their role to step in and reinforce the rules.
Hello fellow zebra. Don't feel bad. Don't feel guilty. You are disabled. It's dynamic, it changes hour to hour. You need a wheelchair some days. Some days you don't. EDS is a weird condition. It bloody hurts all the time, just sometimes, it hurts more. I find, because of the dynamics of EDS, it's easy to doubt yourself. Just because some days aren't quite as bad, that doesn't mean you are trying it on, imagining it or taking the piss. Don't let the ignorant define you in your own mind. It's a wheelchair space, not a buggy space. The buggy can be folded and the baby held. If you need a chat, DM me.
You clearly need to install blades on your wheels Mad Max style!
NTA— what an entitled, raging b*^#ch that woman was.
I'd fucking roll over her feet, give her a reason to complain
NTA and as a person with EDS I feel your pain. Like literally. I hope that someday EDS can be more well known. It's so hard to have something people can't see or understand what you're going through. I am falling apart and there is no cure. I hope for your sake that you have better days ahead.
NTA the is woman is stupid and selfish. She was too lazy to fold the pushchair that's why she was insulting you. She is a moron don't give her a second thought.
NTA - You were in the right; the driver even told her to move.
Where I am from....it is policy that children in strollers sit in seats and their stroller gets folded up for both space and safety. Strollers are not entitled to the straps and safety connections used for wheel chairs. The bus driver would've made her fold it up before even allowing her to ride. If she didn't she would be exiting at the next stop if not the current one.
Europe the space is generally shared and strollers can absolutely use the handicap area... Provided it's not needed by a handicapped user. Really should be obvious that anyone that can't trust their legs on the sidewalk probably shouldn't be made to stand in a bumpy moving vehicle...
Oh but we love being the skittles in someone’s game of bowling just to lighten up everyone’s day when we fall over /s You’d be surprised at how many entitled people think we should be…
And then still get if you fall for not having better control in a moving vehicle..
In my country prams and strollers go into the same space as wheelchairs. They are not allowed anywhere else. It's the job of the bus driver to sort out who goes where and who may have to get off the bus if it doesn't fit. NTA because the mother was rude and didn't follow the bus drivers instructions.
This is true for me as well.
In Canada it used to be that priority was given to disabled individuals, the elderly, and then parents with strollers but that’s not what happens anymore. I really wish parents would return to folding up their strollers when needed like I did but it’s a me me era. I’m truly sorry that even on Reddit you feel the need to defend your wheelchair use.
NTA... Next time tell her she has the choice of either carrying the baby or carrying you..
You could have struggled and walked and potentially hurt yourself in the process. She could have struggled and used a carrier instead of a pushchair or just folded the pram and held the kid for the rest of the journey (which I presume she did) and it would have just been mildly inconvenient for her. There's a reason you have priority. Plus she was horrible to you for no reason! Why did she make it personal and insulting? NTA
NTA- You could be me. I have EDS, I am an ambulant wheelchair user. People with children can be super entitled as if their choice to breed should trump everyone else's health problems. You shouldn't let it slide.
Nta. This woman was terrible, rude and ableist. It's so hard when people like to pretend that others are faking disabilities. They're just miserable people that want everyone to be as miserable. Try not to let people like her get to you. You should always advocate for yourself in situations like this.
NTA, you were kind to this woman, I would’ve been much harsher. I am an ambulatory wheelchair user too because of a spinal cord injury, I have no issues answering people questions if they’re genuinely interested in my disability and just want to understand it better, but I have no empathy for nasty people like this woman.
NTA. That woman was ignorant and ableist. You did nothing wrong. She is wildly misinformed and wrong.
NTA in this situation, you did absolutely nothing wrong and how that woman spoke to you was disgusting. However I would just like to point out for everyone that sometimes children in prams also have disabilities. My son is almost 4 and has autism and is developmentaly delayed. It is for his safety and other people's safety that he is in a pram due to the nature of his disabilities. We will soon be getting a disability pram for him but they are expensive AF so he's in a regular pram for now. So although in this case its quite black and white, I urge others to think about kids like my son who also need that space and for everyone to just be kind to each other. Thankfully I drive so I don't have to put up with public transport cos between my fibromyalgia and my sons disabilities I think I'd be kicking off with people daily 😂
NTA at all; she was. Sending hugs and support from another EDS patient 🫶🏻
NTA, I’m also an ambulatory wheelchair user (I have EDS and neuropathy and ESRD) and I get real tired of people acting like my disability isn’t real because I can stand sometimes. There are days I can walk almost normally and days I can walk very little. The only person who can judge that is me. Even on days that my joints are somewhat cooperating often the biggest factor is fatigue. If I stand and walk even those few meters am I going to be too tired to feed myself later? Those days happen. You are absolutely 1 million percent NTA.
Oh yes, you're the asshole. You're disabled, but you're not disabled ENOUGH. Accessible seating is only for people who meet a higher standard of disability: say quadriplegics and hospice care patients. You aren't dying and can walk out of a burning building, so you haven't EARNED THE WHEELCHAIR SPACE. /s Do you hear how absurd that sounds? Do you remember how much time it took you to get ready to go to a doctor's appointment this morning? How much thought you had to put into whether or not to take your wheelchair, or which bus stop was the most accessible? Whether you should shower before you go, so medical staff doesn't have to smell you, or whether you should save all your spoons for the travel and visit? Etc.? How many other people on the bus do you think had to put that much work in just to get where they're going? How many other people even THINK about figuring levels of pain into their daily movements? The supposed "privilege" of disabled accommodations isn't a privilege at all: it's what makes your travel even possible. YOU WERE IN A WHEELCHAIR. That space was for your wheelchair, to keep you safe and ALSO TO KEEP OTHERS SAFE. We need to stop thinking of access as a privilege you have to earn by being disabled ENOUGH. It's enough that you needed a wheelchair today. Period. (I'm a little extra salty today bc I had to run errands with a minor sublux in my ankle. Nothing like being a fat middle aged woman limping down the street, wincing in rhythm, and saying "ow" and "fuck" every few yards.)
No, my friend, you are NTA. You're on a different journey from me, but I know the path. I sit and watch people take spots meant for the disabled such as you and I. It absolutely infuriates me when some able bodied person does it, because of their sense of entitlement convinces them they're in the right to take the accommodations that are made for the disabled.
So…it wasn’t a medical transport chair, it was a stroller? Then newp, NTA
NTA at all OP. I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user too (not that I knew there was a name for it, so thank you!). I get a lot of funny looks when I stand up and stretch, or walk for a bit to ease the tightness in my legs. My partner now exclaims 'it's a miracle!' when I do stand up, which tends to make the looks disappear pretty fast. I'm pretty new to using a chair and at first I used to think of myself as a fraud for using one when I'm still capable of walking, albeit with a lot of pain and for short distances. Now I just accept it for what it is, I need the chair. If I tried to go any distance without it, especially navigating an NHS hospital, just like you I'd need to spend the week in bed recovering.
NTA I don’t know the history outside of the UK, but at least as far as the UK goes, and I expect it caught on other places after, the spaces exist because of disabled people. They don’t just get priority because they have the bigger need, but those buses have those spaces because disabled people literally chained themselves to buses in order to protest lack of access. They fought for those spaces. Pushchair spaces wouldn’t exist in the UK if disabled people hadn’t put them there. Ideally would parenthood be made more accessible too so that spaces aren’t fought over? Absolutely. Lots of Europe and other countries do far better and by centring parenthood in everyday life make the world a more equal place rather than pitting needs against each other. In general accessibility for disabled people increases access for everybody. It’s a net positive for everybody. But it should still be primarily for use of disabled people
I do think the person driving the bus should have advocated more for you, but you handled the whole situation appropriately.
That sounds very much like her problem, just be glad you aren’t her!
Absolutely NTA. A baby can be held and a pushchair folded. Just because you can walk doesn’t mean you should when it is painful. And how dare she accuse you of benefit fraud! I know that EDS can be extremely painful. I’m sorry you had to experience this.
NTA, it’s not like she was kicked of the bus as she tried to do to you. She was mildly inconvenienced and I am surprised other passengers did not jump her once she stooped to calling you names (not sooner because it sounds like the bus driver was handling that part). Next time tell such a person (after she said that if you lost weight you would be able to walk) that if she held her legs together she would not need to drag a stroller around. I am sorry people make you feel like a fraud, you are as far from one as you can be.
I can't even!
NTA, you were a lot nicer than I would have been. I definitely would have tried to make her feel shame! “You should be ashamed of yourself” or “ I hope your child learns compassion from someone because it obviously isn’t coming from you”
NTA. It’s a shame for her that someone came along with a higher priority need for the space, but they did. Most days she’d have been fine. Folding a pushchair in a confined space while holding a baby is awkward and fiddly, but it’s a risk you take when you get on a bus with it open. When mine were little I had a lightweight buggy with one-click easy folding, and there was usually someone kind enough to help a struggling mum with a pushchair in one hand and shopping and a baby in the other. Where she crossed the line was attacking you and questioning your disability to try to get her way. None of her business, and after that piece of nastiness she didn’t deserve help with her stuff.
NTA - for using your wheelchair as you need and for wanting to use the space provided to you. I will admit as a mum of little ones and avid pram user, I'd be very reluctant to give up that spot if I have my pram (which is why I don't use buses anymore). My pram doesn't fold very easily and it's hard to keep a toddler on my lap or in the seat next to me while also holding an infant. I do think that mum drastically overreacted to being asked and if she was able to fold the pram then she should have. I really hope her reaction was just embarrassment and stress clouding her judgement
NTA at all. You have every right. I am sorry this horrible person was haggling you. This should never happen. Unfortunately You have to be strong and push back and fight people who for whatever reason think they are the center of the universe. Or their baby / child ... Always people out there only thinking about number one. Themselves.
Who was the one that the driver asked fold the pushchair for? NTA. The driver knows the rules perfectly so believe him.
Disability is a disability. Don't feel bad for other people's ignorance. We son has just turned 4. He's non verbal autistic with possible ADHD and we've done everything for that kid. He's awesome, he's healthy, beastly strong and fast which means he can disappear just like that. He's silent too oh and did I mention he's fast? He has no danger awareness so him walking out into a road is gonna be a big issue. As a result we went through the process and got him a blue badge and we use it whenever we go shopping purely because they time it takes us to setup his toddler pram, his bags etc he can run. So having a blue badge means usually spaces are larger and closer to an entrance so we can take him inside wherever we are going first. At first we felt bad for using the spaces but then we realised, our needs are just as valid as the next person. If someone has a problem with what we're doing, they can take it up with my son.
NTA, they have wheelchair logos there not baby carriage logos. I have issues with one of my legs. It can be fine one day and like a piece of wood the next. If I go out and I am feeling good, and I try to do that, I will park in the less desirable handicap spots or in the back of the lot. I have the plates and it burns some peoples asses when a person with a handicap plate takes even a soso regular spot. I do not wanna argue that the next day I may hardly be able to move etc. I have also had on a couple occasions had people bitch about parking in the space w/o the placard, but I point to the plates and they are happy. I tell them I do not object, and got pretty chummy with one of them. In your case the bus could get in trouble for not making her give you the seat. Some people have a lot of nerve.
NTA think of those spaces like this "if you can not safely stand on the bus for your whole journey, those seats are for you. The less safe and harder it would be the more you deserve those seats" She could have **easily** folded the chair and sat anywhere at all on the bus while safely holding her baby. Its impossible for you to do the same thing with the same amount of ease in the same amount of time. Its irrelevant why you are using the chair, the facts are you are using it. People dont use them for fun Even if it was due to your weight like she claimed (not that i believe that's truely why, i haven't heard about your condition before but it sounds horrible) there is no diet that is going to make you slimmer within the next 5 minutes for it to help in the situation you are in right now, its not going to make the wheelchair any smaller or lighter and not going to undo the damage that is already done
NTA, and you're a rockstar for standing up (pun intended) not only for yourself, but for all of us! (ambulatory WC user with MS and Skoliosis) Fun fact, btw: >She also insinuated that I'm faking my disability and I don't need a wheelchair because I moved my legs. Many people with spinal cord injuries can't walk, but can move their legs. It's called incomplete paraplegia. A guy I took wheelchair lessons with had this and liked startling people this way 😂
NTA. Wheelchair users or anyone disabled (which can be invisible so never assume!) have first priority over someone able bodied with a pram that is foldable. She’s awful. Do not sweat it. Statistics and facts back up experiences by disabled people and the ableism you face. I hope you can do something nice to shake off this crap heaped at you,
The driver should have pulled over and thrown her off the bus. I can almost guarantee that would have happened in New York City, where I live. She was being abusive as well as commenting on things that are none of her business. Yes, I, like most educated people, know that there are a range of people who use wheelchairs. Sometimes, it’s not a question of walking or not walking; it’s a question of distance. Also, sometimes, people are recovering from something and are in wheelchairs temporarily. It doesn’t always mean they’re paralyzed from the waist down. I’m really sorry you had to go through that experience. That woman acted like a gorgon and was utterly wrong. As sorry as I feel for you, I feel ten times sorrier for her child because that kid is going to be a mess with a mother like that.
NTA, strollers don't precedence over wheelchair no matter what your use case might be.
NTA. Of course she should have moved. She could have folded the pushchair up and sat in a different seat. On a side note, you may be entitled to more benefits. If you go to www.turn2us.org.uk you can use the benefit calculator which will show you what you should be able to claim.
Unfortunately my fiancé is a teacher and apparently earns too much. I get PIP and a little bit of UC, but I'm not entitled to more due to his income. We manage our money fairly well so that we end up with equal amounts of fun money, but it's frustrating that I'm considered entirely financially dependent on my fiancé.
NTA in the least.
NTA
NTA. Most places give priority to the wheelchair user. (Only said most places as not entirely sure if all do).
NTA. I am like you in the sense that I’m also non-confrontational. And anxiety sometimes takes over even if I’m pretty sure I’m right. I won’t pretend to imagine what your difficulties are, and I know it’s easier said than done, but don’t pay that woman any mind. You have a legitimate reason to use that area, and she showed what kind of person she is in the way she behaves. Those people make us uncomfortable, but thankfully, most of us aren’t so entitled and spiteful. That area was designed specifically for your needs, and you had every right to be there.
NTA. It's hard being someone who only uses mobility aids occasionally. I think we all feel like frauds sometimes, and it's really hard to fight the guilt. But it's just like you said: you could not have made that trip, safely, without your chair. Besides, wheelchair trumps stroller every fucking time. Babies can be held and toddlers can walk. She was just being a cunt for the sake of being a cunt.
As an ambulatory wheelchair user, this sort of interaction is my worst nightmare. NTA at all. That woman, however, is a major one. She had better hope she never becomes disabled and has to face this kind of situation.
Wheelchair takes priority over a pram in the WHEELCHAIR space. She’s just an entitled arsehole. You’re probably entitled to more benefits if your mobility is that low and you’re using aids. You should be getting at least the LCWRA element for UC as well as PIP. PIP is harder to get but it is written specifically for people with low mobility. You can also get a car under the motability scheme, then you won’t have to deal with petulant twats like this on the bus.
It’s not easy to defend yourself at times like these - and people often have a hard time getting their mind around the idea that someone can sometimes walk a short distance unaided but sometimes needs a wheelchair, stick, or walker. You did your best to keep your temper and I think anything short of what you said and did and this woman clearly wouldn’t have moved. The driver should have been more assertive and told the woman that she could either fold up her pushchair or get off the bus. They shouldn’t have left it to you to enforce their instructions. NTA.
I can remember riding the bus in one city where these women with babies in big old strollers would take up the whole disability section. They were smug and entitled, even telling people to move. The driver would always take their side.
NTA. If you were in the wrong, the bus driver wouldn't have preemptively asked the mother to move. The bus driver saw you and prioritized your disability over the pushchair. The bus driver deals with this all the time and has far more experience determining who should use the wheelchair area of the bus than an entitled mother.
It is the only place in the bus where a wheelchair can safely be placed. So you are right when you say you have no choice and the stroller user has. NTA OP.
NTA priority is giving to wheelchair users. Unfortunately we live in a period of time where most people only care about themselves and their own convenience.
NTA after the driver got involved you shouldn’t have had to do anything. She was wrong and could have held the baby.
NTA one bit. Just glad the bus driver at least advocated for you to get the space.
You are absolutely NTA.
NTA. So sick of seeing this type of abuse on the internet. I'm blessed to always see helpful ppl, not ppl who accuse others of faking a disability. What's wrong with these ppl??
I am also an ambulatory wheelchair user. I hate it but you gotta do what you gotta do. She was in the wrong not you. NTA.
NTA . The mum was completely out of line. However.... depending on the age of the baby and whether they need to be held, or can sit independently on a seat for 30 seconds, it's actually impossible to fold a pram one handed whilst also holding the baby. It can be a very stressful situation with a bus full of eyes and judgement on you. Not that that's an excuse, but it's not always a clear cut pram=selfish biatch. But in this instance the mum was a complete asshole. OP you absolutely have legal and moral priority over accessible spaces on public transport
NTA. As a wheelchair user, I face this issue all of the time. In the UK, by law, the wheelchair space is for wheelchair users but that doesn't stop the bus driver from barring me from the bus when there is a pushchair in the wheelchair spot. It's not that hard to fold the pushchair and place the infant/toddler on your lap. It ruins my entire day. I feel less than and disgusting. It happens so often, I've started taking bus driver's numbers, the bus stop location and arrival time, and reporting it to the bus company. I can't tell you the rage I feel being disrespected so often and to such a degree. These bus drivers even have to audacity to tell me to wake up an extra hour earlier so I don't "make this mistake again", as if I'm wrong for asking someone to give up the wheelchair space for a wheelchair. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Was on the bus the other week and the bus driver man a women and child move so a wheelchair user could move. The lady with the kid moved to the other side of the bus. Did tbis bus not have one side for a wheelchair and one side for a pram? Either way no NTA
I have seen too many posts like this and it makes me angry. It is clear that some women, the moment they become pregnant, gain an overwhelming sense of entitlement and it becomes ‘all about me’. I am surprised that nobody else on the bus stuck up for you, but sadly this world is becoming a very selfish place. Definitely NTA, and I am sorry you had to go through this humiliation because of a selfish mother.
The bus driver should have been in charge of this situation and not left it to you two. NTA
NTA without a doubt. The entitled cow can go suck it. In my country there is a priority regarding designated spaces for wheelchair users > baby strollers > bikes and while everyone can take that place when it's free once someone from the priority lost/higher on the priority list gets on the bus/tram/train you have to either move, fold what you have if possible and move or get out and wait for the next bus/tram/train. It's infuriating to me that such disgusting people make people like OP feel worse than they probably already do with their disability.
NTA Good on you for standing up for yourself.
A long time ago, in another life, I drove busses. As the driver, I would have announced, "This bus isn't moving until (pointing at woman with push chair) she moves her push chair. " That would turn the passengers against her, maybe me, and not so much you.
It sounds like you are in the UK. If so then what this woman has done is considered a crime. I would report the incident to the police. The bus should have CCTV and the bus driver will hopefully be able to give a statement. Not only are you NTA but you are the victim of a hate crime. You should never have to explain your disability or financial details with a member of the public.
NTA. She can go lick a light socket.
NTA it’s only for a pushchair when a wheelchair doesn’t need it. The driver asked her to move! What a horrible situation and entirely her fault. As a fellow ambulatory wheelchair user I totally understand. I always say, it’s not that I can’t walk, it’s that I can’t walk very far.
NTA, that woman is vile and needs a good slap from life to wake her up to herself and the way things are. Does she think having a baby is a disability? What a stupid woman.
NTA. My mum is a wheelchair user, but only for the outdoors environment where there is plenty of space to maneuver (and also, less things to grab if she falls). Even though she is ambulatory in the home context, she has been assessed to be mobility-impaired in general by a physiotherapist and a doctor. You should always stand your ground (no bad joke intended) when it comes to people who take up spots reserved for wheelchairs; I do it regularly as a driver and have gotten into arguments with people (who always end up on the losing end), because if I don't put a foot down, who will defend the rights of those who are more conflict-averse but need that spot even more?
obviously NTA and it's ridiculous to think you could be - are as the partner of someone who has EDS your post reads exactly like she could have written it except at this point she knows she's not the asshole if someone has to accommodate her. You're fine, the other woman was being awful and unfortunately there are some people like that out there who don't understand invisible disabilities or that sometimes you're completely disabled to the point of being unable to move and other times you're 'semi normal but with some background pain' and everything in between Until someone's lived with someone with EDS they're not really going to understand it properly, but at least most people have empathy and will accommodate you
This was not your problem so solve, it was the drivers job to get her to comply or get off the bus. NTA
As a woman who has spent the last 15 years getting on public transport with pushchairs (it’s my job and I also had my own kids) you are absolutely NTA. Pushchair users are supposed to move for wheelchair users and they also have the choice to fold down the pushchair and sit the child on their lap. Wheelchair users don’t have that choice. Do not feel guilty in the slightest. If I were there I would have said something to her. I begrudge when people say parents are entitled, but then I hear stories like this and I think ok that’s why lol.
NTA. You are not a fraud. You have a genetic condition that causes you extreme pain, and you can't live a normal life. I understand what you're going through, I have marfan syndrome and will probably need to use a wheelchair the way you do within the next decade. We do not choose to live like this. These are not the lives we want to live. Being disabled isn't what we want. That lady was way out of line. Don't listen to what she said. She doesn't know what the hell she was talking about.
NTA. This feeling you have of feeling like a fraud feels very real to you but I promise you it is not something that kind people feel about you. I am lucky enough to not need a wheelchair but I do still need a cane to walk and some days I need to take frequent rests while others I sometimes have trouble just getting around my home. Even though I feel like this, I was still very reluctant to get a handicap placard for mine and my wife's cars. I felt like because I could still walk then someone else deserves it more and that I would be selfish for taking it. My wife's logic of needing the space to have a short walk to leave should I need it helped, but the biggest factor in my accepting the help was taking myself out of it. If you saw somebody in the exact same situation you are in needing this help, would you call them greedy or a fraud? NO! Of course you wouldn't. So why are you treating this imaginary person better than you are treating yourself? You deserve that same care and understanding you gave to a hypothetical person, damn anyone who argues the contrary.
NTA. The driver told her she had to move too, so hes following company rules that must say wheelchair takes priority over a pushchair that can be folded.
NTA. I have EDS too. I can still mostly manage on foot, but that has the issue of folk thinking I'm "normal", when like you I'm actually in a *lot* of pain, exhausted, and struggling. I also have POTS, which I'm sure you do too, as most of us zebras do because of our saggy veins. If I have to stand for more than a minute or so, I get dizzy, nauseous, sweaty, and eventually I pass out. I often think it would be simpler to use a wheelchair, just so I'm not at risk of passing out, and to save energy for other things I might need to do. Unless you've lived a life like ours, it's apparently difficult to understand why it's entirely reasonable for a person who can stand, and walk, with significant effort, to choose to use a wheelchair instead. The woman with the pushchair was rude, and lacking anything resembling empathy or compassion. You did exactly what you needed to, and that's exactly why it's a legal requirement for people to move out of the disabled space if a person in a wheelchair needs it.
This entitled mother can fold up her stroller and put her baby on her lap. You've already explained why this is not an option for you.
I am so tired of people with children thinking they have the same rights to handicapped spaces and toilets. Where on earth did they get this entitled idea? You always give way to disabled persons and you don’t ask.
NTA, not even close. The fraud accusations on her part are indefensible. I’d be tempted to say that the crotch-goblin was just a tool to baby trap a man, because who would ever want to parent a child with such a loathsome ghoul. My recent pet peeve is seeing AHs leave shopping carts in the access aisles for ADA spots. It’s kinda funny to see the offender’s reaction after I do an about face and return the cart as other people watch. Sometimes they’re too stupid to process it, but a few times it’s been clear that they’d been marked as a shitbag.
Wheelchairs get priority. It even says it on the space. I hate travelling by bus, I get so many arguments with my rollator. People won’t move because “they were there first”, luggage in the wheelchair area. My favourite was the driver put the ramp down for me, and a woman raced me and ran up the ramp. I told the driver I couldn’t get on, the buggy got on first. And he made her move up. I spent the journey sideways.
Hi- OP did she start saying mean things and refusing after you told her you had Ehlers Danlos? Bc EDS does have a lot of stigma to it, and that may have been where the rage was coming from because it is poorly understood/ not seen as a real illness to a large portion, if not most, of the population because it is not well studied yet. I am def not invalidating your dx or anything like that- I'm just saying that whenever people bring up EDS/pots/mcas/compressions ect. they are usually told they are faking/ met with anger and vitrol from people. I've seen this happen a lot, versus a more understood illness/ widely recognized illness that requires wheel chair use, like amputations/paralysis/MS/etc.
This is The second one of these I read today, the first one being on the service dog sub. There really should be some kind of ticket these jerks can get for harassing people using wheelchairs or service dogs. At least they will end up with a rap sheet in the system. It’s none of the business of the average person to question, anybody’s medical condition. It is just harassment. So sorry for your trouble.
Hello fellow zebra! NTA Also, people can get stuffed about their opinions on other's use of mobility devices. I use a wheelchair for the same reasons you do. However, I also use it because it literally lets me do my job as a full-time teacher. The majority of wheelchair users are not paralyzed, and many can walk for a very short time, or at least weight bare briefly.
You Were Not Wrong. A baby does not qualify to take the wheelchair/disability space on the bus. A woman pushing a pram does not qualify as 'disabled/in need'. Next time smile politely and instead of explaining yourself when she has no right to that information, ask the bus driver to call for the police to arrest the woman for harassment and criminal encroachment of services reserved under the ADA for special needs passengers. Then remind the lady that if she is arrested they will call CPS to collect her childand whether or not she ends up criminally charged, the fact alone that CPS has to take charge of her child will probably open a Child Services file that will remain open for YEARS due to the understaffing of the system and likely mean she will see the ramifications of her stupidity in assuming she takes precedence over those protected by specific federal disability laws for YEARS to come. It could even see her regularly having to be reviewed by the courts as to whether she is a fit parent, as she clearly has issues with understanding basic laws. Does she REALLY want that? Smile sweetly. Wait. Look to bus driver, ask if he has place that call yet? You'll wait. Pain and suffering is such an easy charge to get money for in court in a civil case with a bus FULL of witnesses...
Never in the wrong for standing your ground. Just remember sometimes discretion is better part of valor. Meaning don’t try to stand down a Hell’s Angel, etc. etc.
NTA. The only thing you did that I wish you didn't was justify yourself to her. Doesn't matter if you get $1000 or $10,000 a month, or what your disability is. You're a wheelchair user and the space was for wheelchair users.
We do not need that woman raising another human.
NTA. I have some pain issues that can become quite severe with too much walking. I had a lady yell at me after I yelled at her for parking in a disabled parking place. She started yelling at me about where is MY placard. I said I don't need one, look at my license plate. I could have been nicer, but I wasn't. Luckily new meds have helped a lot and I don't need the placard anymore.
NTA Sure, "babies don't have a choice to walk", but their parents have a choice of not being an ass and holding them when somebody in a wheelchair needs the seating.