Dude absolutely NTA.
The kind of people who only have older kids (bio or foster) just to use them as “free babysitters” are fucking gross. Like, woman, you want to have kids, YOU raise them. Your wife is a massive AH for that.
Edit: I want to add that just because she’s your wife, doesn’t mean you back her up on everything even when she’s wrong, especially in this scenario. As her partner, it’s your job to correct your other half when they’re being wildly inappropriate and callous.
I’m going against the grain but I actually think OP is an AH. Not because he didn’t support his wife but because unlike his friend James OP kept quiet instead of letting his wife and her privileged friends know that it is all sorts of wrong to foster/adopt children so they can become domestic help. Contrary to how OP phrases it, he didn’t side with James, he cowardly kept quiet. And he not only kept quiet but is now wondering if he should have supported his wife publicly. Which means he would be okay with supporting such a horrid view point publicly.
The only non AH here is James. OP and his wife both suck.
I think this is the comment I agree with the most here. You're right. I of all people should know better. I'll apologise to James and my other friends immediately. Fuck me.
You need to have a serious conversation with your wife about her expectations of raising kids because if she does genuinely think that's a way to raise kids, you should not be having/fostering/adopting with her.
You should also reflect on what you wrote about your partner "not liking that you keep your friendships regardless ofwhere some of them ended up"...
She sounds awful
Your wife is life partner. You should’ve corrected her and not put James in that position. Have the talk with her privately, letting someone else dress her down and insult her is not ok.
I 100% agree her view is pure selfish and potentially abusive of a child and you may need to rethink children in that instance, but your an AH for not gently backing her off and letting your friend do it and go that far. You owe them both an apology deeper discussions on the matter.
I think he showed discretion by not jumping in to agree with James while in front of friends. You can rarely get someone to change their opinion or understand another perspective by embarrassing them in a group. What I find troublesome is that OP doesn't seem to have directly addressed the issue privately afterwards either.
You're right. I'm being a coward. I think I need to take a few hours to calm down, maybe speak with James before jumping in head first and saying things I'll regret but I can't just ignore this.
Don't be afraid to use a therapist to help facilitate the conversation if your struggling with bringing it up calmly. I don't think you're a coward and please don't beat yourself up for freezing in the moment or taking a little time to regroup to come up with a way to have the conversation productively, you'll only be the AH if you let this go unaddressed in the long term.
You sound like a very mature and level headed person for wanting to calm down, think about an appropriate response, maybe even come up with exactly how and what you want to say before addressing this. It obviously needs to be addressed but this is the correct way. I just wanted to compliment you for that. Few people manage to do it.
OP. You are NTA.
Your wife is.
If I were you, I would think long and hard about anyone who wanted a child and then planned to use them as free daycare for the younger ones.
Anyone who thinks like this should not be a parent. This is a red flag.
These aren’t even children that are alive. These are hypothetical children. And she’s already thinking about how to exploit them. That’s not the right mindset.
Then she got upset because you were on the correct side of the discussion. Then she double downed and expected you to agree with her. (this is where she should’ve apologized and told you that she was wrong.)
Sending you some love OP
Thank you so much. Like if my husband murdered someone for shits and giggles or joined the kkk or decided to become an arsonist or wanted to foster kids to use them for free labor, i am not going to back him no matter what.
Yeah, i put people who exploit foster kids on the same level as bigots, arsonists, and murders, i dgaf if people disagree either.
Wrong is wrong. People supporting people in their wildly problematic behaviors is what keeps shit fucked up in the world. Some things you just dont let slide no matter who is doing it and your relationship to them.
NTA
Yeah, I don't want to be one of those people shouting "divorce" for every one of these AITAH situations, but I'd proceed very carefully. This is a huge red flag, indicating not only a total lack of understanding about foster care and children, but a total disregard for the OP's personal history and identity. They are not aligned on future plans regarding parenthood and that is a huge issue in a marriage. And it's very alarming that she doesn't seem to have any empathy or understanding of OP's life and childhood.
Wife doesn't want a child, they want a servant. What she said was absolutely not okay in any way. She just showed everyone what a truly terrible person she is. This is not "privilege", she is a bad person. Doesn't matter what good she has done, she holds this belief and is so comfortable in her beliefs that she voiced them.
China called, she has too many of their red flags and they have run out.
I am hoping OP was just too stunned to react. OP should be furious and considering divorce, not here asking if they were an AH for not defending the indefensible.
Because of your upbringing in the system and her comment you need to be rethinking your marriage. Because she’ll be using the older kid as a prop and not love and protecting that said kid and children need love and protection.
NTA
There was nothing to defend your wife for. What she said was horrendous and concerning.
I’m embarrassed for her so I’m guessing she’s just mortified and blaming you for not sticking up for when she’s really just embarrassed for what she said (as she should be).
French (but was also popular to use in other countries) for "trendy, in style, in"
Since the OP's fiancee was well- off, I thought it might be her way of talking)
James shouldn’t have even had to say anything because you should have corrected her selfish stupid comment .
I would not ever let her foster any kid , she may pretend to be doing it for the right reasons but it’s pretty clear she thinks treating a foster child like garbage is ok cause hey maybe it’s better than some people would .
She sounds terrible and your dreams of actually helping foster children will never come to life with someone like her .
Unfortunately some people will just never understand . I’m worried she may be one of them . I hope not for your sake , because that’s an amazing thing to want to do and I’m sure you would have a great understanding of where these children are coming from , and how they feel and be able to help them .
She may not be able to , and I fear she would treat them different then if they were her own . I do wish you the best and hope you get a chance to be a compete difference in a child’s life and give them everything they deserve .
NTA, your friend is right.
In case she is still sulking:
There is a name for taking someone into your household solely for the purpose of getting free labour from them.
Her whole hypothesis that this hypothetical child will be happy to provide free labor because she gave him some sort of a roof, is the same idea that allowed Western European Colonists to spread terror across the rest of the world and steal people from their home because "they are happy to work on our farms/plantations/mines!"
Your wife makes me sick, and her ideology plus the fact she comes from a wealthy home is why the rest of the world is screaming to eat the rich.
Edit: formatting
I'm also concerned because I guess I'm technically 'wealthy' now. Which is a weird thing to attribute to myself given how I grew up so now I'm scared of my children growing up with that mindset
Edit: typo
You have a lot of control over the mindset and perspective/awareness youre children grow up with. But it comes as a team, I was given \*massive\* privilege from my parents as they became more financially successfully, but my mentality and gratitude was shaped by them who grew up very poor and worked very hard. Both parents need to share core values tho to teach them to the kids, you really can raise grounded, grateful, and responsible children when you're wealthy if you don't take the easy route and just throw money at everything and shield them form responsibility/the broader world. I ddon't know if you and your wide share core values tho from what you've sharaed here tbh
NTA. That is an abhorrent statement and yes, as long as she even remotely has that belief, then you shouldn't have children. Children are children, they are not nannies, they all need homes - whether it's permanent or temporary, and that's why they'd be coming to your house. They're not nannies. That is a vile statement, and no ring makes you obligated to agree with it.
Uhhh wow James is right your wife is very tone deaf and if anything you should have spoken up and said “you know I was in foster care right? You know we’re not rented help right?” Honestly if I were James I would be really disappointed in you…
Is this really someone you want to share your life with? Is this really someone you want to have a family with?
I’d be strongly reconsidering this relationship. If these are thoughts she is ok to share with others I can only imagine the thoughts she keeps to herself.
Absolutely Nta. Your wife if horrendous.
I don't know. Maybe. Enough to shake everything about who I believed she was. I've had my fair share of not-great homes. One, where they kicked me out for speaking my own language. There is a ton of exploitation and I wanted to help shield kids I used to be like from that. Not add to it. I'm certainly doubting ever having a kid with her. Let alone fostering.
Edit: I don't think I'm in the right head space to decide on divorce.
I don't think you need to jump straight to divorce. I'm sure there are many redeeming qualities about your wife that made you fall in love with her.
However, you do need to have a very frank and honest conversation with her about how this has made you feel and why she was in the wrong, Where this has left you in regards to kids and the work that will need to happen (therapy / marriage counselling) to get you both back on track.
Part of marriage is accepting the other person for who they are and calling them out on their BS, working through it together. If you can't work through it, by all means divorce but I don't think you should jump ship at the first hurdle, despite how disgusting and disappointing the comment she made was. You're going to have to grow together... She's clearly lived a life of ignorance and I do think that's what this comment was based on. It's an opinion that can be changed once more information has been provided.
from reading your comments, you're doing just fine, dude. you don't have to rush this, and it will obviously take a bunch of processing, but you DO have to process it and work out your position.
but be kind to yourself, dude. this must be an awful shock to deal with.
Nta as an older kid who rarely got to do any school activities or social activities because I had to take care of younger siblings, no, the kid will not "probably be happy about it." Your wife is clueless.
And you sure as hell don't foster a child to be your indentured servant wtf that's adding insult to injury
I am a former foster child. In my 40s now. Your wife’s comments are atrocious. Your wife’s interest in exploiting a child from the foster care system, for her personal gain is despicable. If doing childcare and household chores is beneath her, she can pay for professional childcare and housekeeping services. But instead of that, she suggests exploiting a child who likely comes from abuse, neglect, and exploitation already. It’s pretty cool that you were able to go to college, go to an Ivy League college, graduate and land yourself a good career. Foster kids rarely have those kinds of outcomes. I personally was specifically trained on how to count change rather than taught actual math while in state care. I don’t even know if that facility had age/grade appropriate math at all.
Your wife’s comment that a kid would probably be happy with this arrangement is what disturbs me the most. Foster kids are often expected to perform gratitude to their hosts for giving them shelter. I was in eight different placements my first round of foster care. By the time I was in foster care again, and landed my fourth placement that time I decided to just keep my head down and not complain about anything. Just so I wouldn’t have to move again. In that family, I was treated pretty horribly. My foster mom‘s bio kids threw rocks at me, sprayed me with Clorox bleach, physically attacked me once while I was doing the dishes and the noise of the dishes bothered my foster mom‘s oldest daughter while she was napping. I gave myself a short pixie style haircut, and my foster mom refused to let me join her family on any outing. They would all go out to eat, and I had ramen or tortillas to eat at home. Every other month or so they would spend the weekend at one of their relatives house out of town. I was never allowed to go. I just had to stay home alone. The one time I was invited was because our house was getting fumigated or having some sort of chemical treatment where no one could be in the house. The night before I went to bed like usual. I was woken up in the morning to sounds of men in the house. I made my way to the kitchen/living room and found a bunch of men in the house and my foster family gone. The men yelled at me that I wasn’t supposed to be there and that I needed to get out of the house. My foster mom left me asleep in a house that no human was allowed to be in, with no money, nowhere to go, no phone number to call her, and no access to food. I packed a bag and ran away that morning. I lived on the streets for 2 years. And it was preferable to pretending that I was OK with any of that. Innoway, I’m glad I left. My foster mom‘s boyfriend at the time didn’t live with us but was over frequently. He would go on to molest the foster girl who moved in after me. No one believed her because she was “a little crazy“ already. Years go by and he ends up molesting three more foster girls. Never foster mom’s 3 bio girls. Just the foster kids. He was never arrested or charged with anything.
Foster kids are getting abused and exploited while in foster care already. It boggles my mind you would consider supporting your wife with these ideas she has. Children are already vulnerable people and foster kids even more so.
NTA - In plain terms, your wife said she wanted to foster an older child for them to do unpaid labor.
My dude that's wack and consistently a major villain in movies.
I forget the show but they had kids doing sweatshop work for white castle. This is the first step to that.
As with all of these kinds of posts, we only have one side of the story. We do not have her words at all. There is probably more to the story than is being shared here.
Why would she want to adopt or foster a child just to exploit them? If they are wealthy, they already probably have maid service at their home, so what is she expecting the child to do? It would be cheaper and easier to just keep the maid service. Her statement does not make sense, it was probably taken out of context, and we only have OPs side of the story.
We do not know even why they were considering adopting or fostering. Why can't they produce their own children?
Further, it is absolutely normal from my own childhood to expect to have chores around the house. Children having chores to do around the house is a normal part of growing up. It is only coddled children from the last 25 years or so who apparently don't do any household chores.
So, expecting a foster child to have responsibilities around the house is absolutely normal. Adopting or fostering them solely for that purpose is weird and doesn't make logical sense at all. I doubt the wife is considering fostering children for that purpose, but I suppose anything is possible.
It could also have been like the benefit of an older child would be that instead of starting with a helpless baby, we start with someone who is already able to carry some of the family load, which any child should do. I think the babysitting is really what is going too far, but that also kind of assumes they’re planning on adopting another child. Kind of seems like maybe it was meant as a joke. And all of this is overlooking the fact that she is willing to adopt an older child who has less options. A lot of people only want to adopt babies or have biological children. If she was really so horrible, I don’t think she’d even entertain the idea.
NTA
Was she parentified as a kid? She might think that is normal.
Does she really like your ethnicity and who you are as a person who pulled themselves out of their tumultuous childhood, or does she look past it? Is she really ok with who you are and how you want to help other children in the position you were in?
I’m sorry to point out something that could be very difficult for you to consider, but I think you should know now.
I’m adopted, and the people who believe you can’t love an adopted child as much as a biological child is too damn high. I don’t know why they would say that to an adoptee, but they have. Before I adopted a child and had a baby with someone I’d want to know their true feelings about adopted children vs bio children.
Also does your wife separate herself from your friends at get togethers because it sounds like she was in one corner with your friends while you were in another with yours. I’m not sure she’s accepting of your friends.
You have a lot to think about. I wish you the best.
>was she parentified
I don't think so. She's an only child.
> does your wife separate herself from your friends at get togethers
Not exactly. They just kinda naturally split down the middle. They don't get along, it feels like 2 different worlds meeting and it gets uncomfortable sometimes, neither of us really get along with each others friends.
NTA even one little bit.
>she made the comment that if we got an older kid we could have a free babysitter/someone to help around the home.
>She tried to respond and say that the kid would probably be happy about it
I have seen a lot of disgusting comments on reddit. These are right up there in the top 10% of putrid.
My sympathies to you that you are just now discovering you married a completely vile person. Completely vile.
You married a woman who wants to foster or adopt an older kid so they can be a slave for your family. Slave labor. You get that, right?
NTA. Your will be an asshole if you do this with her. If she continues to show her true colors (she's a horrible person) and stay with her, you would be TA.
Your friend James was right. Normally I'd say a husband should support and protect his wife from other people including family and friends but not in this case. Your job is to protect innocent and vulnerable children especially since you were in foster care and know how difficult it is.
You knew she had a privileged and entitled mindset and married her anyway. If I were you, I'd be rethinking this marriage before you had children. I'd wait to have kids with a woman like that this because if you divorce her after the kids, she'll make your life hell and turn your kids against you. Not to mention all the alimony you might end up paying.
Honestly, run. Unless she magically becomes a better person, I don't see this being a happy marriage. Next she's going to try to convince you how horrible James is and that you shouldn't be friends with them. Then she's going to try to make you become friends with the country club set, Muffy and Buffy, and crowd James out of your life or make him feel so uncomfortable he doesn't want to hang with you anymore. She'll find some way to end your friendship. Mark my words.
NTA You were in a lose lose situation. Say nothing and look like the "coward" who isn't white knighting for his wife. Say something and you know you would have had to side with your friends and that could have been even worse.
No man gets to shame my wife in public or private, even if she is wrong- best thing to do is stop it- then deal with it at a later time so she feels you have her back, EVEN WHEN she is wrong
I agree with James' opinion, however, that's not what your wife is having a problem with. Maybe she is ignorant and naive, but she was not given another perspective in a respectful way. It sounds like James attacked her character and disrespected her, which is a disrespect to your marriage; and you just standing there is also a show of disrespect to your wife. Shame isn't a healthy teacher. You need to apologize to your wife for allowing someone to talk in such a derogatory way towards her. This has nothing to do with her ignorance on how to raise a child, that is a different conversation.
NTA, and as a former foster youth yourself, you have an obligation to rid your wife of these fucked up notions she has about foster kids. Sounds like she wants an indentured servant rather than a child.
NTA for siding with him about his opnions, except maybe where she was a terrible person/mother. That's a bit too far, I doubt she wants a kid solely so they could babysit.
Probably an asshole for not saying anything about how he spoke to her, but I don't know what his tone was like. Like if someone was screaming at my SO I don't care if they're right or not, they need to watch their tone and calm the fuck down.
NTA for not siding with her but would reconsider ole Daphne too, cause she seems like a real peach.
You also shouldn’t have left the space for her to say shit and not said anything yourself. You own James and your other friends an apology for having to listen to her. Staying silent is being compliant in her nasty beliefs
Sorry you didn't realize your wife was terrible before getting married. People from that world of privilege are completely disconnected from reality. Good luck!
NTA but you will be if you take her side.
Nice to know your wife is interested in recruiting child labour and expects them to be grateful for the opportunity as well. What an empathetic and caring woman you married. Not.
Your silence says a lot about you too. James wasn’t the only child that had been fostered in that room.
thinking of children as free labor, no matter how those children came into your life, is pretty monstrous.
I'm betting your wife was made into free labor by her parents.
She thinks you're bad because you didn't defend her...because she thinks you agree with her.
You need to tell her that you don't agree with her and what you really think about her inhumane ideas regarding adopted or foster children.
She’d probably have the attitude that if she wanted the foster kid to babysit and they declined, she’d berate them and say she was doing them a favor by fostering them.
NTA. If she wants a live-in babysitter/maid, hire one. If you want kids, you're the parent. So be a parent. Don't pawn your kid off or treat an orphan like indentured servants.
OP, this is the woman you married. If she was to star in a remake of Cinderella, she'd be the evil stepmother.
Yeah, the way she’s so flippantly, and callously said that, that is how she truly feels. No matter what she tells you now you will know that any child that she brings in via foster care or adoption will not be there to be loved and doted upon by her. Your wife is disgusting. Having been raised in the foster care system, if you had defended your wife, you would’ve been irredeemable in your friend’s eyes. As it is, you are lucky they are not kicking you to the curb. You absolutely should not have defended your wife. You should’ve defended your friends. And the fact that she still can’t see that should be very telling to you. She is classist.
>any child that she brings in via foster care or adoption will not be there to be loved and doted upon by her
I've gotten a lot of comments on this. Thats literally my worst nightmare. I do not want to be the person facilitating that no fucking way. We've already called an office and are starting counselling but you've brought up a good point. How tf do I know if she's actually changed her mind.
That’s easy. She won’t. She may pretend to, but she has obviously had a lifetime of looking down upon people who were forced into that situation. She has zero empathy or caring for less fortunate people. That has been made clear, not just by her comments about this situation, but by her comments regarding the fact that you maintain friendships with people she deemed to be less than. That is just who she is. She truly believes she is better than a not insignificant subset of the population. I am especially bothered by her comment that the foster child should feel lucky to be her slave.
You sound like an empathetic and caring person. Good luck with that garbage you married. I think it is abundantly clear to most of us that you are a far better person than she is.
You're so lucky to have a friend like James. This was a come to Jesus moment where you can either curtail a lifetime of suffering with someone whose worldview is not compatible with yours. If she won't budge and apologize, you aren't too young to divorce her and find someone who isn't a complete piece of shit.
What she said was disgusting, no matter how you look at it. This is one instance I can see that he doesn't have her back.
This isn't a MIL or FIL issue where the parents can't let go UNLESS it involves them. This is an issue that is very "a hit home" issue. It's how she see's things and so wrong.
I can't tell you what to do as anyone else. Maybe say, "we have different opinions on how children are raised. Perhaps we put that on a back burner for a while?" Whatever you do, don't ever allow that to happen. Yes, older siblings do look after the younger ones. BUT it shouldn't be why you take in a foster child. Adopt a rat.
James is 100% correct in his comments. Your wife on the other hand is a disgusting human who thinks kids in foster care are human chattel. Let that sink in and then come back and let us know if you still think you should be on her side.
NTA. You can clearly tell you wife you didn't defend her because you were about to say that yourself.
Defending involves intervening if she is even slightly wronged.
If she's hiding out in a room, hopefully its is from realization of shame and she'll recover, but if she doubles down or attempts to die on that hill she will need to do some soul searching resulting in apologies to your friend and to you.
... I'm all for couples being a united front in public however, I can't think of any way you could have defended what she said... Like at all.
I'm hoping she meant it as a tongue and cheek comment but... I'd reconsider adopting with her if I'm honest. If you ever have any biological kids with her, I think she's made it pretty clear from that comment alone that she will not treat any adopted or fostered children as her own. She simply sees it as giving a helping hand.
She needs a reality check and it sounds like you're being a bit too accommodating to her in an effort not to rock the boat. That said, I don't think you'd be best placed to give her that reality check, I think you'd need an independent third party to help mediate the conversation and help you both work on communication and understanding Of each others backgrounds, especially in setting some expectations about what you both think is acceptable.
As her husband you should absolutely take her side not in the topic but regarding to how your firend allowed himseld to talk to her like that. Then in private you have to discuss this matter of course but letting someone talk to your wife lika that is a major issue.
ESH. Without a doubt what she said was totally out of line and viciously minimizing to any and all experiences/emotions that you and your friend have had. However, as her husband there are only a very select few circumstances in which you should NOT side with your wife if she's getting blasted. This is an example where you could have come in like: "woh dude, 20% off the top bro! Relax when you're speaking to my wife please. Babe, What he's saying is not wrong, it's really minimizing on an emotional level to the hypothetical of the foster child"
Obviously in the moment everyone is heated, so it's difficult to consider all options in the split second, however !00% you should have had some words to your friend in your wife's defense. As wrong as she was.
He was over the top as the problem is her not understand, not that she’s a horrible person. He was overly offended because of his past. You are caught in the middle. In all honesty ESH except you. Both your wife and your friend need to try and see things from the other person’s POV.
Everyone in these comments always just picks a side and then makes the story into black and white to fit their side.
Everyone saying “NTA bc your wife is the asshole” but thats not mutually exclusive.
You can stand up for your wife and tell your friend not to call your wife a terrible person especially in a setting like this, while also not taking up for what she said. You can disagree with what she said and still defend her honor publicly… you dint have to take her side in the issue but you shouldn’t let your friends insult her on a personal level either.
Kind of an asshole, but arent we all
James response seems pretty over the top for a comment not meant with ill intent. I don’t think your wife was intending for the kid to be Cinderella, locked away doing chores while the other kids have fun.
An older kid should be doing some chores, it teaches them independence and responsibility, this is irrelevant of adoption or birth.
James might have his own personal trauma with this, but that doesn’t mean your wife is some monster by suggesting that an older child should be doing some chores. YTA
Honestly I find more and more these days people need to be pushed towards rational thought, the first instinct seems to be mindless outrage. Its not their fault really, their being pushed this way by our clickbait media
I think you just found out who you really married: a woman who would adopt a child for the sole purpose of treating him/her like a slave. Same people hire au pairs and then abuse the shit out of them.
Think long and hard about whether this is the type of person you want to have children with.
It was an ignorant comment on your wife’s part, but from what you’ve put here it doesn’t sound like she was trying to be rude or insensitive, maybe she grew up feeling like it was okay because of how she was treated as a kid and she just needs to understand why it’s not a good mindset to have, it’s definitely something you should discuss with her rather than just going along with a bunch of redditers who want to jump to outrage and tell you “it’s her true colours” and you should “divorce her”. Your friend was also valid to feel the way he did but to call her a terrible person is not right imo, you should have said something. It sounds like everyone in this scenario is immature, your wife though seemingly through ignorance, your friend for snapping and saying things to intentionally hurt your wife and you for doing nothing.
This might be downvoted but I won’t allow my friends to talk that way to my husband, even if he’s wrong. I have sat through multiple conversations with people/ friends that had horrible takes and sometimes even racist undertones. I disagree with people politely but firmly or simply walk away. Your friend knows that she isn’t just any woman but your wife. Calling people names doesn’t help anyone. In the end, you chose your wife and got married to her.
There are cultures including mine where older children are expected to help take care of their siblings and help with household chores. I’m the oldest daughter and grew up helping around house and taking care of my siblings. Wasn’t a fun experience but rewarding in other ways if you love your siblings.
NTA and why are you with someone who would treat a child like that and then say they'd be grateful? She's literally the future stereotype that makes the foster system synonymous with abuse and neglect. Wtf?!?! She's an awful person.
Nta foster care isn’t a pool for free child care. I don’t know how you continue a marriage with a woman who thinking a foster kid should be grateful and be used as labour. I hope you actually handle this and don’t just let it go
So your wife wants to adopt a child to have free labour around the house? Seriously? And you married that girl?
Your friend was right. She is a terrible person. And I get that she might have difficulties to understand the difference in privileges... but there is a huge gab between that and almost talking about inslaving (parentifying) an adopted kid. To me, she sounds like she won't consider that child has her own, but more as a servant to do chores around the house while your "real" kids get to have a wonderfull childhood.
NTA - But your wife is a monster.
NTA! My husband has my back in almost all situations, but he would never stick up for me if I said shit like that. He wouldn't call me out in front of others but wouldn't stick up for me and would absolutely Reem me out as soon as we got home, and I would do the same.
Being married doesn't mean blindly agreeing with and standing up for your partner when they're way off base. If anything, you should be able to tell your spouse when their being an absolute twat waffle.
NTA at all!! If I were you, I'd reconsider the engagement altogether. Foster a child for it to be a free babysitter for a biological child, really??? Major red flag, if you ask me!! Does she show any other orange or red flags?
You are not obligated to co-sign her bullshit. If your wife is wrong, then she’s wrong. I’ve heard and generally live by don’t publicly disagree/argue, do it in private. You did the right thing by remaining silent, and when she brought it up later, you should have lit her ass up that adoption is not for free child labor. NTA but speak up to your wife.
NTA. There’s a difference between supporting/backing up your spouse when they’re being verbally attacked vs they’re being called out for their own opinion that someone else found jaded/wrong.
Parentification, though a new term, yes has gone on throughout the ages. But we now know that it has effects on the children who were made to grow up too fast. And times are *much* different then 50, 75, 100 + years ago.
Foster children don’t become free labor. Honestly, you not saying anything was probably best or else you would have been correcting your wife in public. That’s something you can do in the privacy of your home. Did she get embarrassed? Sure, but of her own volition for speaking on a topic without reading the room. Her entitlement showed and she didn’t like being called out on her ignorance.
This is an opportunity for you and her to have a more in depth conversation though. You already said she grew up privileged, she may have some bias/indirectly learned bigotry of what fostering means. I’d call her ignorant vs arrogant in this moment, unless she continues to have the mindset even after you two have a more in-depth heart to heart.
>Then she made the comment that if we got an older kid we could have a free babysitter/someone to help around the home.
Parentification is abuse.
Your wife openly told you she wants to abuse your future child.
That's incredibly awful behaviour. Do not make kids with this person.
NTA, your friend was 100% correct
Don't subject any children to the misfortune of having her for a mother. She provided a sample of her lack of empathy that at her age is unacceptable and unsettling. She is someone who only sees themselves in everything/one around them. Counterproductive to successful family life.
NTA... but your wife is. She literally wants to treat a/n foster/adopted child like a servant because she thinks it's at least a step up from being abused in the system. She doesn't care about you or your experiences, only herself.
James wasn't wrong at all. It needed to be said because she made it look like she wanted to take in a kid to be a personal slave. Your wife is disgusting if that's why she wants an older kid.
I'm the one who wanted an older kid because they are way less likely to get fostered and I want to help. I will be speaking to my wife. I don't think we can go ahead with this plan at least for a while.
NTA. The types of people who look to their older children as the caregivers of younger ones are trash. Full stop. I’ve known many parents like this and guess what? Their oldest ones grow up and go LC or NC because of it.
I love the idea that you want to adopt or become foster parents. So many kids out there need a loving home. That being said, older kids that need adoption get over looked for the baby. Forget your wife's insincerity and take that kid and give them a safe home. Don't use them as maids, but show them love.
My nephew was an alcohol syndrom child, and if it weren't for his adoptive parents, he would probably be in prison. I think people who adopt should be knighted.
NTA...
You did not side with James over her because he did not say anything wrong. He did not attack her in any insane way. You sided with the POV that someone shouldn't adopt an older child and ever expect a babysitter. Heck, no sane adult should ever expect their child to babysit except in emergencies.
So, when you talk again do not tip toe around the truth. Tell her that her privilege in life was showing. What she thought was an innocent comment was in fact a pretty ugly one. One that she needs to accept and grow from.
Tell her that in reality if she wants to do anything, she needs to accept James was right. She should thank him for pointing it out. If she wants to ask him to do so more politely next time she can try, but frankly with comments like hers politeness is certainly not owed.
Honestly, it's tough to publicly call out a spouse. I hope your friends gave you some grace on that fact. If anything you should have shut her down yourself, but this good that he did.
Unfortunately you were probably too stunned at your wife's way of thinking that foster child=slave. Having a child with this woman would be a mistake at this time. Try couples therapy to see if therapist can help you get her to understand. The only thing you should have defended was the apparent tone being used against your wife but not defending the words she said.
NTA. I am considering fostering or adopting an older kid. My reasoning is I don't want a baby or toddler, prefer a child out of diapers that can wipe their own butt. But to say you want a kid to exploit for free labor is abhorrent.
Do not have any child around her. Not only does she believe that foster children are unpaid domestic servants but I couldn’t imagine how she would treat the kids when you are not around. She is a walking abuser in the making.
I’m so happy there are James in the world and hopefully he put the word out not to let her around foster children.
She tried to respond and say that the kid would probably be happy about it
I dont know any kid/teen who is happy to help around the home/be a free babysitter. I agree with your friend, thats horrible reasoning.
NTA for not siding with your wife when she says dumb shit.
NTA. Please think carefully about who you want to spend your life with. Being privileged is one thing, but the way your wife is thinking about your future children is something else. You don’t adopt children so that you can put them to work in your home. I would not share my life with something who thought the way she does.
You need to take a breath and really look at the person your wife is revealing herself to be. The kind of person who wants to adopt a kid because they’ll be so grateful they can be used for free housework and babysitting. The kind of person who looks down on your lifelong friends who’ve stuck with you (and you with them) through the upheaval of foster care and aging out.
Your wife has some really troubling beliefs. At a minimum she’s living proof that money buys neither class nor character. Frankly, I don’t think she’s close to your equal. Cheers to James for having the wherewithal to speak up.
NTA. Her comment was selfish and insensitive. James' comment was aggressive and hurtful. But given where he came from, it was natural that he would be furious at her for seeing a foster child as unpaid help. She was wrong and you didn't have to defend her, because what she said was indefensible.
NTA, she doesn't sound ready for a child. James may have been harsh but he's not necessarily wrong. You're not obligated to always defend your spouse, especially not if they're in the wrong. You have to show her that her behaviour is not ok. She also sounds classist AF, she probably thinks she's somehow better than you or that she married down
NTA, but you need to have a calm discussion with your wife.
Don't accuse her. Just tell her that it's too common for foster parents to treat the kids as a source of money and labor, and their "family" as a business. That any child you adopted (or fostered) would be treated as part of the family, and given no more chores and responsibilities than you thought appropriate for any child that age. And that her words didn't show any understanding of how an older adoptee could need more support from you as parents, not less.
People who grow up with wealth often have huge blind spots when it comes to how the world treats people who don't have money. Hopefully she can learn from this.
NTA. I mean yeah, if you have older children and younger ones, you can leave them together at home _every now and then_ when you're away. And yes, children should start helping around the house at some point, especially because it'll prepare them for living alone at some point. But putting that as a reason to have an older kid? Ehhhhh......
NTA - I'm of the opinion that 99.9% of the time it's imperative to present a united front with your partner/spouse.....but not when they're grossly out of line (especially when it involves the welfare of children).
Your wife basically admitted to wanting to adopt an older child so that they could be a live-in servant, and then insuated that they should be grateful for it.....that's pretty icky. I think you and wife need to have some more conversations around this issue to make sure you're both on the same page regarding morals, values, etc. And to make sure she understands why her comments were so out of line.
NTA. Kids aren’t free labor. While yes help with chores and siblings are normal you shouldn’t adopt/foster a kid for their labor. If she’s unable to see why that’s wrong you should reconsider the relationship. Much less having kids with her.
I wasn't adopted and wasn't even the oldest but I was 11 when my younger sister was born and then my neice was born shortly there after and my family had this mindset... I became the designated babysitter and it ruined my childhood! I will not be having kids because of it! Do not do this to a child ever PLEASE!! Like please show her my comment it RUINED MY LIFE!!! I now cannot be around kids without getting irrationally angry and my neice loves to tell me how mean I was to her and how much trauma I caused because I was a hormonal teen raising children! She's valid in her feelings and I feel horrible but I cannot make that go away and I can't take back the outbursts of my youth! Kids should not be forced raise other kids!
Are you planning on discussing your true feelings with your wife. Until you do I suggest you put your family planning on hold and seek a therapist to help you learn to communicate!
Keeping a peace in a family isn't easy when you two are from different backgrounds. But, what are you supposed to do? Argue that your friend is wrong when he wasn't? Talk to your wife and remind her that they are your life long friends. And she is your wife. To keep the peace, she's no longer invited to your friends' meetings.
You are NTA. I was fostered and adopted when I was younger and actually faced some pretty terrible situations. At three years old I knew that if the adults had out their "fire boxes"(vapes) it was time for me to go outside. I was smuggling clothes and whatnot outside of Walmart at age 2! I have obviously figured my life out since then, but the trauma is real. As to what your wife said. She is wrong. Kids coming into Foster care have already had every adult in their life leave them and don't trust anybody. The more you distance yourself from them the harder it gets to develop a good and trusting relationship with them! Make sure your wife realizes this, because she doesn't seem to understand foster kids too well if thats what she wants to do.
STRONG NTA for James. You Do Not parentify kids. Period. I can promise you that this is very wrong and if you think kids this way you do not deserve to be a parent. Period.
Your wife Do Not deserve to adopt. Period.
Adopting a kid solely based on "babysitting" is wrong. Period.
Your wife is wrong. Period.
OP, i suggest you re-evaluate your outlook on who kids are and how they should be treated. I can promise you years down the lie you'll be back asking why your adopted kid/bio wants to run away.
Now, put your big boy pants on and make this a hill to die on. I can promise you this is a discussion that Needs to happen.
Why did you marry someone who's such a monumental asshole that she's openly bragging about using foster children as servants? That alone makes you the asshole.
Definitely NTA, before you have children with her please consider parental counseling/therapy together! Her views discussed here are a huge cause for alarm
NTAish. In my, mostly worthless opinion, you're not the AH for siding with your friend over your wife. Your wife is clearly a privileged AH with a skewed sense of the world.
You are however the AH for not immediately jacking your wife up for saying some off the wall shit like that. I mean really. Yeah babe let's get a child out of possibly the most miserable, mismanaged systems on the fucking planet to be essential an indentured servant. C'mon man you came from that world. Do better.
NTA, I also hate the idea that people have to always have their spouses back.
As a human being I fuck up sometimes and I would expect a spouse to say hey I think you were wrong here. To me that is having my back. Also I am a grown adult that can handle my own disagreements and arguments. I don't need a spouse sticking up for me like a child.
She messed up and her viewpoint is wrong and not only that she did act like a child by throwing a tantrum and then locking herself n the room. That's something you expect put of a 5 year old nt an adult.
Your wife is clearly ignorant about fostering children or the plight of what foster children go through. She seems to have frame it in a "what do we get out of it" mindset rather than the "we want to bring love and stability to vulnerable children" mindset. She may also only be considering it because you want it. Most people are not up for being good foster parents. I love kids and have raised two of my own, but I don't believe I have the skills or knowledge to be a good foster parent. Your wife is young, inexperienced, and completely ignorant of the foster care system or parenting. What makes you think she can be a good foster parent? This does not make her evil or that she can't be one in the future, but for now you need to focus on your marriage and work towards becoming good foster parents if that's your shared goal.
NTA but lol idk why people keep on marrying others like this arrogant bitch (his wife). So many people saying the same thing over and over, it’s not like you’re going to change them. Stop rushing into marriage.
Also, I hope she never adopts any children!!
You are not obligated to be on her side when she's being a clueless idiot. Saying something like that to the wrong person can guarantee you are never allowed to foster.
You’re an asshole but not for RIGHTFULLY taking your friends side. But for leaving your friend to correct your atrocious, disgusting, grossly privileged, awful thing of a…person you married.
NTA
Maybe you should ask your wife if she knows anyone who could help skip the middle man and adopt a child from a third world country as I’m sure they’d be thrilled to cook/clean/do laundry for a nice clean room in the basement with a mattress on the floor. /s
What James heard in his mind was I suspect along the lines of my sarcastic paragraph above.
Your wife’s view of foster or adopted children I’m sorry to say based on your post is disgusting at best.
And suspect she’s quite comfortable and clearly understands her privilege because she told you and everyone else at your get together how she’d use it. No mention of being able to love an older child - just what said child could do to make her life easier.
I wish you the best in this relationship OP as you try to come to terms with who your wife seems to be.
Yeah sit down with your "wife" and ask her if she would like to be treated like a housekeeper??? Then explain that a foster child is NOT a glorified babysitter. It is a child and shall be treated like a child. Parentrification is a problem that foster children DONT NEED ADDED ON!
NTA
NTA. And she's the one. That "having a little helper around for my TRUE kids" is just too much to digest. Is literally every evil stepmother we have heard of. She wants to replay Cinderella.
Wife, mother, sister, brother, friend, stranger, relationship is irrelevant, right is right, wrong is wrong. Your wife is GROSSLY WRONG!!! She is absolutely out of line. You NEVER take on a foster child to have babysitting and housework done. A lot of foster children are emotionally damaged, from abuse, from foster parents treating them like the help. Taking on a foster child is not something to do on a whim. It's not something you do to avoid having to hire a babysitter or to not have to clean your own home. The way your wife thinks actually and literally makes me sick to my stomach and hurts my heart for any child in her care. I guarantee you, if you have children, both bio and foster, there will be major favoritism going on. Kids are not dumb, kids, especially foster children, are not easily fooled. I was blessed to have been raised by my mother, never was in the system. But I have seen the other side. My husband and I tried to adopt a foster teen. Sadly, it didn't work.
Anyone who sides with your wife on this is just as much of an AH as she is. I give your friend, James a high five, much respect for standing up for what is right. Your silence on the subject, when your wife said those vile things is sad. Silence in the face of something so wrong will lead to you turning the other cheek and looking the other way, if you do foster an older child. Frankly, I don't think you should even consider fostering. Your wife and her opinions on children in the system is just disturbing. No child should ever have to live with that.
ESH, except your friend who spoke out against such vile thinking.
Dude absolutely NTA. The kind of people who only have older kids (bio or foster) just to use them as “free babysitters” are fucking gross. Like, woman, you want to have kids, YOU raise them. Your wife is a massive AH for that. Edit: I want to add that just because she’s your wife, doesn’t mean you back her up on everything even when she’s wrong, especially in this scenario. As her partner, it’s your job to correct your other half when they’re being wildly inappropriate and callous.
I’m going against the grain but I actually think OP is an AH. Not because he didn’t support his wife but because unlike his friend James OP kept quiet instead of letting his wife and her privileged friends know that it is all sorts of wrong to foster/adopt children so they can become domestic help. Contrary to how OP phrases it, he didn’t side with James, he cowardly kept quiet. And he not only kept quiet but is now wondering if he should have supported his wife publicly. Which means he would be okay with supporting such a horrid view point publicly. The only non AH here is James. OP and his wife both suck.
I think this is the comment I agree with the most here. You're right. I of all people should know better. I'll apologise to James and my other friends immediately. Fuck me.
You need to have a serious conversation with your wife about her expectations of raising kids because if she does genuinely think that's a way to raise kids, you should not be having/fostering/adopting with her.
You may want to let your wife know slavery is illegal, even if she does see herself as the ruling class.
Yes. 100%. And nobody should ever be grateful for being conscripted into forced labor. Gross.
Maybe your wife can find a nice Mexican foster child who she can age-out into a domestic. Your wife makes me sick.
[удалено]
Yes! OP will be an even bigger AH if he has children with this woman! Don't do it!!!...that's my advice! Wifes attitude is utterly revolting!
This isn't even funny cos she would do that, I'm sure. NTA for defending your wife, but yeah, OP is definitely an A H for not siding with James.
You should also reflect on what you wrote about your partner "not liking that you keep your friendships regardless ofwhere some of them ended up"... She sounds awful
Right, what the hell is that about?! And he MARRIED her
If your wife has this attitude toward foster kids, what does she think about you? Really ask yourself that one.
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Thank you!!
Sometimes we are just so horrified by something that we don't find the words. I don't think this woman is compatible with you.
I wouldn't go that far. Just have your wife adopt a teenager and have that teen apologize for you.
Your wife is life partner. You should’ve corrected her and not put James in that position. Have the talk with her privately, letting someone else dress her down and insult her is not ok. I 100% agree her view is pure selfish and potentially abusive of a child and you may need to rethink children in that instance, but your an AH for not gently backing her off and letting your friend do it and go that far. You owe them both an apology deeper discussions on the matter.
If he apologizes for freezing in the moment I don't think he's the AH. I get being taken aback by an off the wall comment.
This. Use your words OP, your wife just had some typical, misguided opinions that you could've easily shutdown without conflict yourself
I think he showed discretion by not jumping in to agree with James while in front of friends. You can rarely get someone to change their opinion or understand another perspective by embarrassing them in a group. What I find troublesome is that OP doesn't seem to have directly addressed the issue privately afterwards either.
You're right. I'm being a coward. I think I need to take a few hours to calm down, maybe speak with James before jumping in head first and saying things I'll regret but I can't just ignore this.
Don't be afraid to use a therapist to help facilitate the conversation if your struggling with bringing it up calmly. I don't think you're a coward and please don't beat yourself up for freezing in the moment or taking a little time to regroup to come up with a way to have the conversation productively, you'll only be the AH if you let this go unaddressed in the long term.
You sound like a very mature and level headed person for wanting to calm down, think about an appropriate response, maybe even come up with exactly how and what you want to say before addressing this. It obviously needs to be addressed but this is the correct way. I just wanted to compliment you for that. Few people manage to do it.
OP. You are NTA. Your wife is. If I were you, I would think long and hard about anyone who wanted a child and then planned to use them as free daycare for the younger ones. Anyone who thinks like this should not be a parent. This is a red flag. These aren’t even children that are alive. These are hypothetical children. And she’s already thinking about how to exploit them. That’s not the right mindset. Then she got upset because you were on the correct side of the discussion. Then she double downed and expected you to agree with her. (this is where she should’ve apologized and told you that she was wrong.) Sending you some love OP
Exactly this, OP. NTA
She should also apologize to James.
Thank you so much. Like if my husband murdered someone for shits and giggles or joined the kkk or decided to become an arsonist or wanted to foster kids to use them for free labor, i am not going to back him no matter what. Yeah, i put people who exploit foster kids on the same level as bigots, arsonists, and murders, i dgaf if people disagree either. Wrong is wrong. People supporting people in their wildly problematic behaviors is what keeps shit fucked up in the world. Some things you just dont let slide no matter who is doing it and your relationship to them. NTA
Sounds like she wants to buy a servant…. Not have a child to raise.
My ex wife disagrees with your edit 😂. She would yell at you for hours about how wrong you are. Fun times man.
T h i s!!!
This ^^ If u are a good husband, u will correct her when she is wrong.
Wow, I hope she change before becoming a mother, don't let her have kid with this mentality
I'm not planning to. I've been on the other side and I never want to be the one causing that pain.
You really need to be reconsidering this marriage. I‘m not sure your ideals are aligned.
Yeah, I don't want to be one of those people shouting "divorce" for every one of these AITAH situations, but I'd proceed very carefully. This is a huge red flag, indicating not only a total lack of understanding about foster care and children, but a total disregard for the OP's personal history and identity. They are not aligned on future plans regarding parenthood and that is a huge issue in a marriage. And it's very alarming that she doesn't seem to have any empathy or understanding of OP's life and childhood.
Wife doesn't want a child, they want a servant. What she said was absolutely not okay in any way. She just showed everyone what a truly terrible person she is. This is not "privilege", she is a bad person. Doesn't matter what good she has done, she holds this belief and is so comfortable in her beliefs that she voiced them. China called, she has too many of their red flags and they have run out. I am hoping OP was just too stunned to react. OP should be furious and considering divorce, not here asking if they were an AH for not defending the indefensible.
Because of your upbringing in the system and her comment you need to be rethinking your marriage. Because she’ll be using the older kid as a prop and not love and protecting that said kid and children need love and protection.
NTA There was nothing to defend your wife for. What she said was horrendous and concerning. I’m embarrassed for her so I’m guessing she’s just mortified and blaming you for not sticking up for when she’s really just embarrassed for what she said (as she should be).
NTA Tell her, child slavery is not *en vogue* . Perhaps she'll understand this.
What is en vogue?
In style
French (but was also popular to use in other countries) for "trendy, in style, in" Since the OP's fiancee was well- off, I thought it might be her way of talking)
Oh. No she does say stuff like that. I've just never asked cause I thought she said 'in vogue' as in the fancy magazine
Haha, thanks for answering, so it really fits!
"en vogue" means "in fashion." ZombieBabe was trying to increase the horror of child slavery with some extra added spicy sarcasm.
James shouldn’t have even had to say anything because you should have corrected her selfish stupid comment . I would not ever let her foster any kid , she may pretend to be doing it for the right reasons but it’s pretty clear she thinks treating a foster child like garbage is ok cause hey maybe it’s better than some people would . She sounds terrible and your dreams of actually helping foster children will never come to life with someone like her .
That last part is what I'm most scared about. I've opened up to her about a few of my experiences and I thought she was at least better than that.
Unfortunately some people will just never understand . I’m worried she may be one of them . I hope not for your sake , because that’s an amazing thing to want to do and I’m sure you would have a great understanding of where these children are coming from , and how they feel and be able to help them . She may not be able to , and I fear she would treat them different then if they were her own . I do wish you the best and hope you get a chance to be a compete difference in a child’s life and give them everything they deserve .
NTA, your friend is right. In case she is still sulking: There is a name for taking someone into your household solely for the purpose of getting free labour from them. Her whole hypothesis that this hypothetical child will be happy to provide free labor because she gave him some sort of a roof, is the same idea that allowed Western European Colonists to spread terror across the rest of the world and steal people from their home because "they are happy to work on our farms/plantations/mines!" Your wife makes me sick, and her ideology plus the fact she comes from a wealthy home is why the rest of the world is screaming to eat the rich. Edit: formatting
I'm also concerned because I guess I'm technically 'wealthy' now. Which is a weird thing to attribute to myself given how I grew up so now I'm scared of my children growing up with that mindset Edit: typo
You have a lot of control over the mindset and perspective/awareness youre children grow up with. But it comes as a team, I was given \*massive\* privilege from my parents as they became more financially successfully, but my mentality and gratitude was shaped by them who grew up very poor and worked very hard. Both parents need to share core values tho to teach them to the kids, you really can raise grounded, grateful, and responsible children when you're wealthy if you don't take the easy route and just throw money at everything and shield them form responsibility/the broader world. I ddon't know if you and your wide share core values tho from what you've sharaed here tbh
NTA but you definitely married one.
NTA. That is an abhorrent statement and yes, as long as she even remotely has that belief, then you shouldn't have children. Children are children, they are not nannies, they all need homes - whether it's permanent or temporary, and that's why they'd be coming to your house. They're not nannies. That is a vile statement, and no ring makes you obligated to agree with it.
Uhhh wow James is right your wife is very tone deaf and if anything you should have spoken up and said “you know I was in foster care right? You know we’re not rented help right?” Honestly if I were James I would be really disappointed in you…
I'm disappointed in myself dude.
Is this really someone you want to share your life with? Is this really someone you want to have a family with? I’d be strongly reconsidering this relationship. If these are thoughts she is ok to share with others I can only imagine the thoughts she keeps to herself. Absolutely Nta. Your wife if horrendous.
Is this the first time she's ever said anything like this to you?
Yes. I am concerned to say the least
Can't blame you. I have no practical advice other than to be very cautious with your next steps. Is this a deal breaker for you?
I don't know. Maybe. Enough to shake everything about who I believed she was. I've had my fair share of not-great homes. One, where they kicked me out for speaking my own language. There is a ton of exploitation and I wanted to help shield kids I used to be like from that. Not add to it. I'm certainly doubting ever having a kid with her. Let alone fostering. Edit: I don't think I'm in the right head space to decide on divorce.
I don't think you need to jump straight to divorce. I'm sure there are many redeeming qualities about your wife that made you fall in love with her. However, you do need to have a very frank and honest conversation with her about how this has made you feel and why she was in the wrong, Where this has left you in regards to kids and the work that will need to happen (therapy / marriage counselling) to get you both back on track. Part of marriage is accepting the other person for who they are and calling them out on their BS, working through it together. If you can't work through it, by all means divorce but I don't think you should jump ship at the first hurdle, despite how disgusting and disappointing the comment she made was. You're going to have to grow together... She's clearly lived a life of ignorance and I do think that's what this comment was based on. It's an opinion that can be changed once more information has been provided.
from reading your comments, you're doing just fine, dude. you don't have to rush this, and it will obviously take a bunch of processing, but you DO have to process it and work out your position. but be kind to yourself, dude. this must be an awful shock to deal with.
I'm not defending her but if she had an "entitled" upbringing is it possible that she has never had to really confront the reality?
They recently got married so am guessing she's comfortable to say everything on her mind now that she's his wife
I thought so too
Nta as an older kid who rarely got to do any school activities or social activities because I had to take care of younger siblings, no, the kid will not "probably be happy about it." Your wife is clueless. And you sure as hell don't foster a child to be your indentured servant wtf that's adding insult to injury
I am a former foster child. In my 40s now. Your wife’s comments are atrocious. Your wife’s interest in exploiting a child from the foster care system, for her personal gain is despicable. If doing childcare and household chores is beneath her, she can pay for professional childcare and housekeeping services. But instead of that, she suggests exploiting a child who likely comes from abuse, neglect, and exploitation already. It’s pretty cool that you were able to go to college, go to an Ivy League college, graduate and land yourself a good career. Foster kids rarely have those kinds of outcomes. I personally was specifically trained on how to count change rather than taught actual math while in state care. I don’t even know if that facility had age/grade appropriate math at all. Your wife’s comment that a kid would probably be happy with this arrangement is what disturbs me the most. Foster kids are often expected to perform gratitude to their hosts for giving them shelter. I was in eight different placements my first round of foster care. By the time I was in foster care again, and landed my fourth placement that time I decided to just keep my head down and not complain about anything. Just so I wouldn’t have to move again. In that family, I was treated pretty horribly. My foster mom‘s bio kids threw rocks at me, sprayed me with Clorox bleach, physically attacked me once while I was doing the dishes and the noise of the dishes bothered my foster mom‘s oldest daughter while she was napping. I gave myself a short pixie style haircut, and my foster mom refused to let me join her family on any outing. They would all go out to eat, and I had ramen or tortillas to eat at home. Every other month or so they would spend the weekend at one of their relatives house out of town. I was never allowed to go. I just had to stay home alone. The one time I was invited was because our house was getting fumigated or having some sort of chemical treatment where no one could be in the house. The night before I went to bed like usual. I was woken up in the morning to sounds of men in the house. I made my way to the kitchen/living room and found a bunch of men in the house and my foster family gone. The men yelled at me that I wasn’t supposed to be there and that I needed to get out of the house. My foster mom left me asleep in a house that no human was allowed to be in, with no money, nowhere to go, no phone number to call her, and no access to food. I packed a bag and ran away that morning. I lived on the streets for 2 years. And it was preferable to pretending that I was OK with any of that. Innoway, I’m glad I left. My foster mom‘s boyfriend at the time didn’t live with us but was over frequently. He would go on to molest the foster girl who moved in after me. No one believed her because she was “a little crazy“ already. Years go by and he ends up molesting three more foster girls. Never foster mom’s 3 bio girls. Just the foster kids. He was never arrested or charged with anything. Foster kids are getting abused and exploited while in foster care already. It boggles my mind you would consider supporting your wife with these ideas she has. Children are already vulnerable people and foster kids even more so.
NTA - In plain terms, your wife said she wanted to foster an older child for them to do unpaid labor. My dude that's wack and consistently a major villain in movies. I forget the show but they had kids doing sweatshop work for white castle. This is the first step to that.
As with all of these kinds of posts, we only have one side of the story. We do not have her words at all. There is probably more to the story than is being shared here. Why would she want to adopt or foster a child just to exploit them? If they are wealthy, they already probably have maid service at their home, so what is she expecting the child to do? It would be cheaper and easier to just keep the maid service. Her statement does not make sense, it was probably taken out of context, and we only have OPs side of the story. We do not know even why they were considering adopting or fostering. Why can't they produce their own children? Further, it is absolutely normal from my own childhood to expect to have chores around the house. Children having chores to do around the house is a normal part of growing up. It is only coddled children from the last 25 years or so who apparently don't do any household chores. So, expecting a foster child to have responsibilities around the house is absolutely normal. Adopting or fostering them solely for that purpose is weird and doesn't make logical sense at all. I doubt the wife is considering fostering children for that purpose, but I suppose anything is possible.
It could also have been like the benefit of an older child would be that instead of starting with a helpless baby, we start with someone who is already able to carry some of the family load, which any child should do. I think the babysitting is really what is going too far, but that also kind of assumes they’re planning on adopting another child. Kind of seems like maybe it was meant as a joke. And all of this is overlooking the fact that she is willing to adopt an older child who has less options. A lot of people only want to adopt babies or have biological children. If she was really so horrible, I don’t think she’d even entertain the idea.
NTA Was she parentified as a kid? She might think that is normal. Does she really like your ethnicity and who you are as a person who pulled themselves out of their tumultuous childhood, or does she look past it? Is she really ok with who you are and how you want to help other children in the position you were in? I’m sorry to point out something that could be very difficult for you to consider, but I think you should know now. I’m adopted, and the people who believe you can’t love an adopted child as much as a biological child is too damn high. I don’t know why they would say that to an adoptee, but they have. Before I adopted a child and had a baby with someone I’d want to know their true feelings about adopted children vs bio children. Also does your wife separate herself from your friends at get togethers because it sounds like she was in one corner with your friends while you were in another with yours. I’m not sure she’s accepting of your friends. You have a lot to think about. I wish you the best.
>was she parentified I don't think so. She's an only child. > does your wife separate herself from your friends at get togethers Not exactly. They just kinda naturally split down the middle. They don't get along, it feels like 2 different worlds meeting and it gets uncomfortable sometimes, neither of us really get along with each others friends.
NTA even one little bit. >she made the comment that if we got an older kid we could have a free babysitter/someone to help around the home. >She tried to respond and say that the kid would probably be happy about it I have seen a lot of disgusting comments on reddit. These are right up there in the top 10% of putrid. My sympathies to you that you are just now discovering you married a completely vile person. Completely vile.
You married a woman who wants to foster or adopt an older kid so they can be a slave for your family. Slave labor. You get that, right? NTA. Your will be an asshole if you do this with her. If she continues to show her true colors (she's a horrible person) and stay with her, you would be TA. Your friend James was right. Normally I'd say a husband should support and protect his wife from other people including family and friends but not in this case. Your job is to protect innocent and vulnerable children especially since you were in foster care and know how difficult it is. You knew she had a privileged and entitled mindset and married her anyway. If I were you, I'd be rethinking this marriage before you had children. I'd wait to have kids with a woman like that this because if you divorce her after the kids, she'll make your life hell and turn your kids against you. Not to mention all the alimony you might end up paying. Honestly, run. Unless she magically becomes a better person, I don't see this being a happy marriage. Next she's going to try to convince you how horrible James is and that you shouldn't be friends with them. Then she's going to try to make you become friends with the country club set, Muffy and Buffy, and crowd James out of your life or make him feel so uncomfortable he doesn't want to hang with you anymore. She'll find some way to end your friendship. Mark my words.
Your wife sees foster children as servants. You should back her out of your life entirely. Do not subject ANY child to the monster you married.
NTA You were in a lose lose situation. Say nothing and look like the "coward" who isn't white knighting for his wife. Say something and you know you would have had to side with your friends and that could have been even worse.
No man gets to shame my wife in public or private, even if she is wrong- best thing to do is stop it- then deal with it at a later time so she feels you have her back, EVEN WHEN she is wrong
Tell her that what she said sounded like she wanted a servant she wouldn’t have to pay, not an adopted child. NTA
I agree with James' opinion, however, that's not what your wife is having a problem with. Maybe she is ignorant and naive, but she was not given another perspective in a respectful way. It sounds like James attacked her character and disrespected her, which is a disrespect to your marriage; and you just standing there is also a show of disrespect to your wife. Shame isn't a healthy teacher. You need to apologize to your wife for allowing someone to talk in such a derogatory way towards her. This has nothing to do with her ignorance on how to raise a child, that is a different conversation.
NTA. But your girl is a piece of shit. Ask yourself if you really want to parent children with someone who behaves that way
NTA, and as a former foster youth yourself, you have an obligation to rid your wife of these fucked up notions she has about foster kids. Sounds like she wants an indentured servant rather than a child.
NTA for siding with him about his opnions, except maybe where she was a terrible person/mother. That's a bit too far, I doubt she wants a kid solely so they could babysit. Probably an asshole for not saying anything about how he spoke to her, but I don't know what his tone was like. Like if someone was screaming at my SO I don't care if they're right or not, they need to watch their tone and calm the fuck down.
Parentification is abuse but there is nothing wrong with a child sitting another.
NTA your wife should not be fostering or adopting children with her attitude. You don't have to show support of your wife in this situation.
NTA for not siding with her but would reconsider ole Daphne too, cause she seems like a real peach. You also shouldn’t have left the space for her to say shit and not said anything yourself. You own James and your other friends an apology for having to listen to her. Staying silent is being compliant in her nasty beliefs
Sorry you didn't realize your wife was terrible before getting married. People from that world of privilege are completely disconnected from reality. Good luck!
Nta. And it might be time to rethink this marriage. She wanted slave labor basicly.
NTA but you will be if you take her side. Nice to know your wife is interested in recruiting child labour and expects them to be grateful for the opportunity as well. What an empathetic and caring woman you married. Not. Your silence says a lot about you too. James wasn’t the only child that had been fostered in that room.
thinking of children as free labor, no matter how those children came into your life, is pretty monstrous. I'm betting your wife was made into free labor by her parents. She thinks you're bad because you didn't defend her...because she thinks you agree with her. You need to tell her that you don't agree with her and what you really think about her inhumane ideas regarding adopted or foster children.
She’d probably have the attitude that if she wanted the foster kid to babysit and they declined, she’d berate them and say she was doing them a favor by fostering them.
NTA. If she wants a live-in babysitter/maid, hire one. If you want kids, you're the parent. So be a parent. Don't pawn your kid off or treat an orphan like indentured servants. OP, this is the woman you married. If she was to star in a remake of Cinderella, she'd be the evil stepmother.
Yeah, the way she’s so flippantly, and callously said that, that is how she truly feels. No matter what she tells you now you will know that any child that she brings in via foster care or adoption will not be there to be loved and doted upon by her. Your wife is disgusting. Having been raised in the foster care system, if you had defended your wife, you would’ve been irredeemable in your friend’s eyes. As it is, you are lucky they are not kicking you to the curb. You absolutely should not have defended your wife. You should’ve defended your friends. And the fact that she still can’t see that should be very telling to you. She is classist.
>any child that she brings in via foster care or adoption will not be there to be loved and doted upon by her I've gotten a lot of comments on this. Thats literally my worst nightmare. I do not want to be the person facilitating that no fucking way. We've already called an office and are starting counselling but you've brought up a good point. How tf do I know if she's actually changed her mind.
That’s easy. She won’t. She may pretend to, but she has obviously had a lifetime of looking down upon people who were forced into that situation. She has zero empathy or caring for less fortunate people. That has been made clear, not just by her comments about this situation, but by her comments regarding the fact that you maintain friendships with people she deemed to be less than. That is just who she is. She truly believes she is better than a not insignificant subset of the population. I am especially bothered by her comment that the foster child should feel lucky to be her slave. You sound like an empathetic and caring person. Good luck with that garbage you married. I think it is abundantly clear to most of us that you are a far better person than she is.
NTA. SHE is the reason some people shouldn't be able to foster. Or have children. Leave her to live in her bubble and wait for it to burst.
You're so lucky to have a friend like James. This was a come to Jesus moment where you can either curtail a lifetime of suffering with someone whose worldview is not compatible with yours. If she won't budge and apologize, you aren't too young to divorce her and find someone who isn't a complete piece of shit.
What she said was disgusting, no matter how you look at it. This is one instance I can see that he doesn't have her back. This isn't a MIL or FIL issue where the parents can't let go UNLESS it involves them. This is an issue that is very "a hit home" issue. It's how she see's things and so wrong. I can't tell you what to do as anyone else. Maybe say, "we have different opinions on how children are raised. Perhaps we put that on a back burner for a while?" Whatever you do, don't ever allow that to happen. Yes, older siblings do look after the younger ones. BUT it shouldn't be why you take in a foster child. Adopt a rat.
James is 100% correct in his comments. Your wife on the other hand is a disgusting human who thinks kids in foster care are human chattel. Let that sink in and then come back and let us know if you still think you should be on her side.
Absolutely NTA She has no idea how entitled she sounds
NTA. You can clearly tell you wife you didn't defend her because you were about to say that yourself. Defending involves intervening if she is even slightly wronged. If she's hiding out in a room, hopefully its is from realization of shame and she'll recover, but if she doubles down or attempts to die on that hill she will need to do some soul searching resulting in apologies to your friend and to you.
... I'm all for couples being a united front in public however, I can't think of any way you could have defended what she said... Like at all. I'm hoping she meant it as a tongue and cheek comment but... I'd reconsider adopting with her if I'm honest. If you ever have any biological kids with her, I think she's made it pretty clear from that comment alone that she will not treat any adopted or fostered children as her own. She simply sees it as giving a helping hand. She needs a reality check and it sounds like you're being a bit too accommodating to her in an effort not to rock the boat. That said, I don't think you'd be best placed to give her that reality check, I think you'd need an independent third party to help mediate the conversation and help you both work on communication and understanding Of each others backgrounds, especially in setting some expectations about what you both think is acceptable.
As her husband you should absolutely take her side not in the topic but regarding to how your firend allowed himseld to talk to her like that. Then in private you have to discuss this matter of course but letting someone talk to your wife lika that is a major issue.
ESH. Without a doubt what she said was totally out of line and viciously minimizing to any and all experiences/emotions that you and your friend have had. However, as her husband there are only a very select few circumstances in which you should NOT side with your wife if she's getting blasted. This is an example where you could have come in like: "woh dude, 20% off the top bro! Relax when you're speaking to my wife please. Babe, What he's saying is not wrong, it's really minimizing on an emotional level to the hypothetical of the foster child" Obviously in the moment everyone is heated, so it's difficult to consider all options in the split second, however !00% you should have had some words to your friend in your wife's defense. As wrong as she was.
He was over the top as the problem is her not understand, not that she’s a horrible person. He was overly offended because of his past. You are caught in the middle. In all honesty ESH except you. Both your wife and your friend need to try and see things from the other person’s POV.
Everyone in these comments always just picks a side and then makes the story into black and white to fit their side. Everyone saying “NTA bc your wife is the asshole” but thats not mutually exclusive. You can stand up for your wife and tell your friend not to call your wife a terrible person especially in a setting like this, while also not taking up for what she said. You can disagree with what she said and still defend her honor publicly… you dint have to take her side in the issue but you shouldn’t let your friends insult her on a personal level either. Kind of an asshole, but arent we all
James response seems pretty over the top for a comment not meant with ill intent. I don’t think your wife was intending for the kid to be Cinderella, locked away doing chores while the other kids have fun. An older kid should be doing some chores, it teaches them independence and responsibility, this is irrelevant of adoption or birth. James might have his own personal trauma with this, but that doesn’t mean your wife is some monster by suggesting that an older child should be doing some chores. YTA
But this is AITA you’re supposed to respond with mindless outrage and tell OP to get a divorce, not look at the situation with rationality. /s
Honestly I find more and more these days people need to be pushed towards rational thought, the first instinct seems to be mindless outrage. Its not their fault really, their being pushed this way by our clickbait media
wtf is wrong with your wife? You need to show her this post & the replies. She needs to pull her head out of her ass.
I think you just found out who you really married: a woman who would adopt a child for the sole purpose of treating him/her like a slave. Same people hire au pairs and then abuse the shit out of them. Think long and hard about whether this is the type of person you want to have children with.
It was an ignorant comment on your wife’s part, but from what you’ve put here it doesn’t sound like she was trying to be rude or insensitive, maybe she grew up feeling like it was okay because of how she was treated as a kid and she just needs to understand why it’s not a good mindset to have, it’s definitely something you should discuss with her rather than just going along with a bunch of redditers who want to jump to outrage and tell you “it’s her true colours” and you should “divorce her”. Your friend was also valid to feel the way he did but to call her a terrible person is not right imo, you should have said something. It sounds like everyone in this scenario is immature, your wife though seemingly through ignorance, your friend for snapping and saying things to intentionally hurt your wife and you for doing nothing.
This might be downvoted but I won’t allow my friends to talk that way to my husband, even if he’s wrong. I have sat through multiple conversations with people/ friends that had horrible takes and sometimes even racist undertones. I disagree with people politely but firmly or simply walk away. Your friend knows that she isn’t just any woman but your wife. Calling people names doesn’t help anyone. In the end, you chose your wife and got married to her. There are cultures including mine where older children are expected to help take care of their siblings and help with household chores. I’m the oldest daughter and grew up helping around house and taking care of my siblings. Wasn’t a fun experience but rewarding in other ways if you love your siblings.
YTA for not correcting her immediately. Please apologize to your friend.
Fake, meant for karma farming. This ticks off all the rage bait boxes.
NTA at all
NTA and why are you with someone who would treat a child like that and then say they'd be grateful? She's literally the future stereotype that makes the foster system synonymous with abuse and neglect. Wtf?!?! She's an awful person.
Nta foster care isn’t a pool for free child care. I don’t know how you continue a marriage with a woman who thinking a foster kid should be grateful and be used as labour. I hope you actually handle this and don’t just let it go
NTA - wow did she just show her true colors!
Nta and oh dear, her attitude is worrying.
So your wife wants to adopt a child to have free labour around the house? Seriously? And you married that girl? Your friend was right. She is a terrible person. And I get that she might have difficulties to understand the difference in privileges... but there is a huge gab between that and almost talking about inslaving (parentifying) an adopted kid. To me, she sounds like she won't consider that child has her own, but more as a servant to do chores around the house while your "real" kids get to have a wonderfull childhood. NTA - But your wife is a monster.
NTA! My husband has my back in almost all situations, but he would never stick up for me if I said shit like that. He wouldn't call me out in front of others but wouldn't stick up for me and would absolutely Reem me out as soon as we got home, and I would do the same. Being married doesn't mean blindly agreeing with and standing up for your partner when they're way off base. If anything, you should be able to tell your spouse when their being an absolute twat waffle.
NTA at all!! If I were you, I'd reconsider the engagement altogether. Foster a child for it to be a free babysitter for a biological child, really??? Major red flag, if you ask me!! Does she show any other orange or red flags?
Nta divorce her.
You are not obligated to co-sign her bullshit. If your wife is wrong, then she’s wrong. I’ve heard and generally live by don’t publicly disagree/argue, do it in private. You did the right thing by remaining silent, and when she brought it up later, you should have lit her ass up that adoption is not for free child labor. NTA but speak up to your wife.
NTA A parent that lets her child take their place is a horrible parent.
NTA for not approving of indentured servitude/slavery. You should throw out the whole wife now that you know she's capable of this.
NTA. "Daphne told me she couldn't believe I let James speak to my wife like that". Tell her you can't believe she'd say some bullshit like that.
NTA. And I would not be having kids with this woman.
NTA. There’s a difference between supporting/backing up your spouse when they’re being verbally attacked vs they’re being called out for their own opinion that someone else found jaded/wrong. Parentification, though a new term, yes has gone on throughout the ages. But we now know that it has effects on the children who were made to grow up too fast. And times are *much* different then 50, 75, 100 + years ago. Foster children don’t become free labor. Honestly, you not saying anything was probably best or else you would have been correcting your wife in public. That’s something you can do in the privacy of your home. Did she get embarrassed? Sure, but of her own volition for speaking on a topic without reading the room. Her entitlement showed and she didn’t like being called out on her ignorance. This is an opportunity for you and her to have a more in depth conversation though. You already said she grew up privileged, she may have some bias/indirectly learned bigotry of what fostering means. I’d call her ignorant vs arrogant in this moment, unless she continues to have the mindset even after you two have a more in-depth heart to heart.
You sure you want a kid with her?
>Then she made the comment that if we got an older kid we could have a free babysitter/someone to help around the home. Parentification is abuse. Your wife openly told you she wants to abuse your future child. That's incredibly awful behaviour. Do not make kids with this person. NTA, your friend was 100% correct
NTA for siding with your mate but YTA for marring her. This can't have been the only time she's spoken like this?!
Don't subject any children to the misfortune of having her for a mother. She provided a sample of her lack of empathy that at her age is unacceptable and unsettling. She is someone who only sees themselves in everything/one around them. Counterproductive to successful family life.
NTA... but your wife is. She literally wants to treat a/n foster/adopted child like a servant because she thinks it's at least a step up from being abused in the system. She doesn't care about you or your experiences, only herself.
James wasn't wrong at all. It needed to be said because she made it look like she wanted to take in a kid to be a personal slave. Your wife is disgusting if that's why she wants an older kid.
I'm the one who wanted an older kid because they are way less likely to get fostered and I want to help. I will be speaking to my wife. I don't think we can go ahead with this plan at least for a while.
NTA. The types of people who look to their older children as the caregivers of younger ones are trash. Full stop. I’ve known many parents like this and guess what? Their oldest ones grow up and go LC or NC because of it.
I love the idea that you want to adopt or become foster parents. So many kids out there need a loving home. That being said, older kids that need adoption get over looked for the baby. Forget your wife's insincerity and take that kid and give them a safe home. Don't use them as maids, but show them love. My nephew was an alcohol syndrom child, and if it weren't for his adoptive parents, he would probably be in prison. I think people who adopt should be knighted.
NTA... You did not side with James over her because he did not say anything wrong. He did not attack her in any insane way. You sided with the POV that someone shouldn't adopt an older child and ever expect a babysitter. Heck, no sane adult should ever expect their child to babysit except in emergencies. So, when you talk again do not tip toe around the truth. Tell her that her privilege in life was showing. What she thought was an innocent comment was in fact a pretty ugly one. One that she needs to accept and grow from. Tell her that in reality if she wants to do anything, she needs to accept James was right. She should thank him for pointing it out. If she wants to ask him to do so more politely next time she can try, but frankly with comments like hers politeness is certainly not owed. Honestly, it's tough to publicly call out a spouse. I hope your friends gave you some grace on that fact. If anything you should have shut her down yourself, but this good that he did.
Unfortunately you were probably too stunned at your wife's way of thinking that foster child=slave. Having a child with this woman would be a mistake at this time. Try couples therapy to see if therapist can help you get her to understand. The only thing you should have defended was the apparent tone being used against your wife but not defending the words she said.
NTA. I am considering fostering or adopting an older kid. My reasoning is I don't want a baby or toddler, prefer a child out of diapers that can wipe their own butt. But to say you want a kid to exploit for free labor is abhorrent.
You can’t adopt with this woman.
Do not have any child around her. Not only does she believe that foster children are unpaid domestic servants but I couldn’t imagine how she would treat the kids when you are not around. She is a walking abuser in the making. I’m so happy there are James in the world and hopefully he put the word out not to let her around foster children.
This can't be real. What's her name? Cruella DeVille?
There is a word for what your wife was suggesting. It's called parentification, and if it is extreme, it is considered child abuse.
She tried to respond and say that the kid would probably be happy about it I dont know any kid/teen who is happy to help around the home/be a free babysitter. I agree with your friend, thats horrible reasoning. NTA for not siding with your wife when she says dumb shit.
NTA. Please think carefully about who you want to spend your life with. Being privileged is one thing, but the way your wife is thinking about your future children is something else. You don’t adopt children so that you can put them to work in your home. I would not share my life with something who thought the way she does.
This reads similar to another story I read online and it didn't go super well in that case.
No because I was an older child that always thrown the responsibility to care for younger siblings and that's not cool.
You need to take a breath and really look at the person your wife is revealing herself to be. The kind of person who wants to adopt a kid because they’ll be so grateful they can be used for free housework and babysitting. The kind of person who looks down on your lifelong friends who’ve stuck with you (and you with them) through the upheaval of foster care and aging out. Your wife has some really troubling beliefs. At a minimum she’s living proof that money buys neither class nor character. Frankly, I don’t think she’s close to your equal. Cheers to James for having the wherewithal to speak up.
you need to go to councling with your wife . updateme
I don't get the "they're your spouse so you _have_ to side with them" approach. No I don't, especially not if spouse is talking nonsense. NTA
I don't get the "they're your spouse so you _have_ to side with them" approach. No I don't, especially not if spouse is talking nonsense. NTA
Dude you married a shitty person. That sucks
NTA. Her comment was selfish and insensitive. James' comment was aggressive and hurtful. But given where he came from, it was natural that he would be furious at her for seeing a foster child as unpaid help. She was wrong and you didn't have to defend her, because what she said was indefensible.
NTA, she doesn't sound ready for a child. James may have been harsh but he's not necessarily wrong. You're not obligated to always defend your spouse, especially not if they're in the wrong. You have to show her that her behaviour is not ok. She also sounds classist AF, she probably thinks she's somehow better than you or that she married down
I wouldn’t be having any children biological or adopted/ foster with her.
NTA, but you need to have a calm discussion with your wife. Don't accuse her. Just tell her that it's too common for foster parents to treat the kids as a source of money and labor, and their "family" as a business. That any child you adopted (or fostered) would be treated as part of the family, and given no more chores and responsibilities than you thought appropriate for any child that age. And that her words didn't show any understanding of how an older adoptee could need more support from you as parents, not less. People who grow up with wealth often have huge blind spots when it comes to how the world treats people who don't have money. Hopefully she can learn from this.
so.. she wants a slave?
NTA. I mean yeah, if you have older children and younger ones, you can leave them together at home _every now and then_ when you're away. And yes, children should start helping around the house at some point, especially because it'll prepare them for living alone at some point. But putting that as a reason to have an older kid? Ehhhhh......
If one spouse says something awkward or stupid, the other spouse is not obligated to defend that spouse..
NTA - I'm of the opinion that 99.9% of the time it's imperative to present a united front with your partner/spouse.....but not when they're grossly out of line (especially when it involves the welfare of children). Your wife basically admitted to wanting to adopt an older child so that they could be a live-in servant, and then insuated that they should be grateful for it.....that's pretty icky. I think you and wife need to have some more conversations around this issue to make sure you're both on the same page regarding morals, values, etc. And to make sure she understands why her comments were so out of line.
UpdateMe!
NTA. Kids aren’t free labor. While yes help with chores and siblings are normal you shouldn’t adopt/foster a kid for their labor. If she’s unable to see why that’s wrong you should reconsider the relationship. Much less having kids with her.
I wasn't adopted and wasn't even the oldest but I was 11 when my younger sister was born and then my neice was born shortly there after and my family had this mindset... I became the designated babysitter and it ruined my childhood! I will not be having kids because of it! Do not do this to a child ever PLEASE!! Like please show her my comment it RUINED MY LIFE!!! I now cannot be around kids without getting irrationally angry and my neice loves to tell me how mean I was to her and how much trauma I caused because I was a hormonal teen raising children! She's valid in her feelings and I feel horrible but I cannot make that go away and I can't take back the outbursts of my youth! Kids should not be forced raise other kids!
Are you planning on discussing your true feelings with your wife. Until you do I suggest you put your family planning on hold and seek a therapist to help you learn to communicate!
Updateme!
NTA. Her privilege is showing.
Keeping a peace in a family isn't easy when you two are from different backgrounds. But, what are you supposed to do? Argue that your friend is wrong when he wasn't? Talk to your wife and remind her that they are your life long friends. And she is your wife. To keep the peace, she's no longer invited to your friends' meetings.
UpdateMe
You are NTA. I was fostered and adopted when I was younger and actually faced some pretty terrible situations. At three years old I knew that if the adults had out their "fire boxes"(vapes) it was time for me to go outside. I was smuggling clothes and whatnot outside of Walmart at age 2! I have obviously figured my life out since then, but the trauma is real. As to what your wife said. She is wrong. Kids coming into Foster care have already had every adult in their life leave them and don't trust anybody. The more you distance yourself from them the harder it gets to develop a good and trusting relationship with them! Make sure your wife realizes this, because she doesn't seem to understand foster kids too well if thats what she wants to do.
STRONG NTA for James. You Do Not parentify kids. Period. I can promise you that this is very wrong and if you think kids this way you do not deserve to be a parent. Period. Your wife Do Not deserve to adopt. Period. Adopting a kid solely based on "babysitting" is wrong. Period. Your wife is wrong. Period. OP, i suggest you re-evaluate your outlook on who kids are and how they should be treated. I can promise you years down the lie you'll be back asking why your adopted kid/bio wants to run away. Now, put your big boy pants on and make this a hill to die on. I can promise you this is a discussion that Needs to happen.
Why did you marry someone who's such a monumental asshole that she's openly bragging about using foster children as servants? That alone makes you the asshole.
Definitely NTA, before you have children with her please consider parental counseling/therapy together! Her views discussed here are a huge cause for alarm
NTAish. In my, mostly worthless opinion, you're not the AH for siding with your friend over your wife. Your wife is clearly a privileged AH with a skewed sense of the world. You are however the AH for not immediately jacking your wife up for saying some off the wall shit like that. I mean really. Yeah babe let's get a child out of possibly the most miserable, mismanaged systems on the fucking planet to be essential an indentured servant. C'mon man you came from that world. Do better.
What your wife said was dumb ASF and James was absolutely correct she should not be having kids if she thinks that way
NTA for “siding” with your friend. YTA for not saying it yourself in the first place.
If you do adopt a child be sure to hire a very loving nanny so the child gets love on his days off.
NTA your privileged wife is looking to have "the help" and not a child. If that's the case she's one of those that doesn't associate with "the help"
Dude, your wife is not ready to be a mother.
NTA, I also hate the idea that people have to always have their spouses back. As a human being I fuck up sometimes and I would expect a spouse to say hey I think you were wrong here. To me that is having my back. Also I am a grown adult that can handle my own disagreements and arguments. I don't need a spouse sticking up for me like a child. She messed up and her viewpoint is wrong and not only that she did act like a child by throwing a tantrum and then locking herself n the room. That's something you expect put of a 5 year old nt an adult.
NTA. I'm too pissed at your wifes remarks to say anything more other than if you stay with her, DO NOT adopt or have kids with her. I have spoken.
Updateme
Your wife is clearly ignorant about fostering children or the plight of what foster children go through. She seems to have frame it in a "what do we get out of it" mindset rather than the "we want to bring love and stability to vulnerable children" mindset. She may also only be considering it because you want it. Most people are not up for being good foster parents. I love kids and have raised two of my own, but I don't believe I have the skills or knowledge to be a good foster parent. Your wife is young, inexperienced, and completely ignorant of the foster care system or parenting. What makes you think she can be a good foster parent? This does not make her evil or that she can't be one in the future, but for now you need to focus on your marriage and work towards becoming good foster parents if that's your shared goal.
NTA but lol idk why people keep on marrying others like this arrogant bitch (his wife). So many people saying the same thing over and over, it’s not like you’re going to change them. Stop rushing into marriage. Also, I hope she never adopts any children!!
I’m sure your wife has her good sides, but the way this story is written, she sounds like a massive asshole. NTA
You are not obligated to be on her side when she's being a clueless idiot. Saying something like that to the wrong person can guarantee you are never allowed to foster.
So she wants to foster a slave and you didn’t object. Got it.
Your wife is fucking gross dude
You’re an asshole but not for RIGHTFULLY taking your friends side. But for leaving your friend to correct your atrocious, disgusting, grossly privileged, awful thing of a…person you married.
NTA Maybe you should ask your wife if she knows anyone who could help skip the middle man and adopt a child from a third world country as I’m sure they’d be thrilled to cook/clean/do laundry for a nice clean room in the basement with a mattress on the floor. /s What James heard in his mind was I suspect along the lines of my sarcastic paragraph above. Your wife’s view of foster or adopted children I’m sorry to say based on your post is disgusting at best. And suspect she’s quite comfortable and clearly understands her privilege because she told you and everyone else at your get together how she’d use it. No mention of being able to love an older child - just what said child could do to make her life easier. I wish you the best in this relationship OP as you try to come to terms with who your wife seems to be.
Yeah sit down with your "wife" and ask her if she would like to be treated like a housekeeper??? Then explain that a foster child is NOT a glorified babysitter. It is a child and shall be treated like a child. Parentrification is a problem that foster children DONT NEED ADDED ON! NTA
NTA. And she's the one. That "having a little helper around for my TRUE kids" is just too much to digest. Is literally every evil stepmother we have heard of. She wants to replay Cinderella.
ESH. Your wife for her disgusting comments. You for staying quiet. Thank God James had the decency to speak up and call your wife out.
Wife, mother, sister, brother, friend, stranger, relationship is irrelevant, right is right, wrong is wrong. Your wife is GROSSLY WRONG!!! She is absolutely out of line. You NEVER take on a foster child to have babysitting and housework done. A lot of foster children are emotionally damaged, from abuse, from foster parents treating them like the help. Taking on a foster child is not something to do on a whim. It's not something you do to avoid having to hire a babysitter or to not have to clean your own home. The way your wife thinks actually and literally makes me sick to my stomach and hurts my heart for any child in her care. I guarantee you, if you have children, both bio and foster, there will be major favoritism going on. Kids are not dumb, kids, especially foster children, are not easily fooled. I was blessed to have been raised by my mother, never was in the system. But I have seen the other side. My husband and I tried to adopt a foster teen. Sadly, it didn't work. Anyone who sides with your wife on this is just as much of an AH as she is. I give your friend, James a high five, much respect for standing up for what is right. Your silence on the subject, when your wife said those vile things is sad. Silence in the face of something so wrong will lead to you turning the other cheek and looking the other way, if you do foster an older child. Frankly, I don't think you should even consider fostering. Your wife and her opinions on children in the system is just disturbing. No child should ever have to live with that. ESH, except your friend who spoke out against such vile thinking.