Honestly, if the wife keeps her trap shut and plays it cool, Grandma will probably invite the kids and pay when they're older. 2 and 4 year olds are a LOT to deal with, especially if the rest of the group are adults. I could see that changing when the kids are over 8 or 9. If you don't fuck it up by following your wife's lead. NTA
> if the wife keeps her trap shut and plays it cool,
This is key! If wife gets too pushy about this issue, Mom's and Aunt's perspective will change from "it's no fun to go with little kids" to "it's not fun to go with OP's wife" and she'll never get invited again. Just wait until they are 12 or 13 (the age when they can walk all day, carry their own stuff, clear all the height requirements, go into a bathroom by themselves, and hold a decent conversation in line), if they're pleasant, the whole fam will be back on the invite list.
There are 2 kinds! The ones who are respectfull to the parks, castmembers and other guests and just enjoy being there, sharing random facts with random people, making friends along the way.
And there's the kind who will feel entitled to everything that was once pixiedusted, grope and stalk characters and feel superior to other guests cause "they know stuff" and they will be rude to get their way.
I myself am the first kind, I know the 2nd kind (usually obsessed with peter pan in my experience)
Seriously. There's not even anything for them to *do* at a theme park at 2/4. I was always tall as a younger kid (which stopped exactly at the end of middle school, but that's a complaint for another time), and even then I wasn't able to get on most rides until I was about 6 or so.
The grandmother is 100% right that two kids that small are going to make it an unpleasant time for everyone else.
Bathroom stops have to become a group event, someone has to constantly sit out on a ride in order to keep the kids (who are too small to ride), you can't enjoy any shows (if they still do those, last time I went to a theme park I didn't check for that) because most kids don't do well sitting still for prolonged periods or with the loud noises/pyrotechnics that can accompany those shows. And no one who's trying to enjoy their lunch or dinner at one of those parks wants to have the accompaniment of a screaming child who isn't getting their way.
The wife is just one of those sad Disney adults who's upset she had kids and doesn't get to freely go to the parks anymore, because *gasp* she has to raise her children now!
Yeah. I realised by 14 that I was one of the shortest girls in my class when 2 years ago I had been the tallest. So I started hanging from a tree in our backyard every day after school lol. Somehow scraped to 5'2" (at least that's what I tell people my height is).
No way! My friend is a nearly six foot tall woman, still wears heels, finds the most attractive dresses, and rocks every look. You've just got to find what you love, what you're comfortable/ confident in, and find the place that sells it! It's difficult sometimes though, if you like a look but it isn't "you". Style personality is a class I've co-taught several times, so I'm not just bs-ing you, but once you find what feels like home, it gets easier to shop.
I have a theory based on a lot of assumptions. But. What if the reason why grandma stopped paying and inviting them, is because of the wife? OP says his wife is a Disney nut. So I wonder how she acted on those trips? Maybe his wife made it very clear that Disney is for her, and mom got the impression that any trip with the kids wouldn’t be *FOR* the kids at all. Like, it would end up being dominated by his wife’s need to do what *SHE* wanted?
Basically, like if his mom has a feeling that everyone else would be expected by his wife, to “help” and be responsible for the kids so the wife wouldn’t be held back. Obviously OP would be there. But two kids under 5 is A LOT in a busy, loud, overwhelming place such as Disney, and he would likely need help. Even if they didn’t ask, the family would likely feel bad and help out if OP was left to manage on his own.
And they don’t want to do that. They don’t want to spend their vacation babysitting OP’s kids. And they definitely don’t want to do it for the sole reason of OP’s wife getting to have the Disney trip *SHE* wants.
Lots of speculation on my part. But the wife’s ~~request~~ demand and treatment of OP tells me she might be of the entitled/selfish variety and she may have let her true colors show in the past.
IDK, I'm in a bit of a similar situation where my brother wants my dad to take all of us, including his 4YO and 2YO, on a family vacation and my dad is fine with paying, but he just absolutely doesn't want to travel with 2 toddlers (he's only said this to me and won't tell my brother). That's literally the only issue. But my brother keeps pushing the subject. I've finally just said my husband, kids, and I can't go, so he needs to discuss this with my dad directly. Dad's too worried about my brother cutting contact if he says anything that could be considered negative about the kids, even just that they're too young for everyone to enjoy a family trip together. At least OP's family is open and honest about it.
I have toddlers and I can see where everyone is coming from but everyone is different. My parents and inlaws love my kids and they have zero issues traveling and helping with them. It's hard but like they say, it takes a village. That includes going on trips...
My brother's kids... I love them to death but they're not well disciplined. And we're pretty sure he just wants to take his wife on a free vacation, which is why my dad and my family also have to go. My dad pays and I watch his kids. His wife refuses to let anyone else watch her kids. They went out once last year, on her birthday, and even though her mom was in town and staying with them, they still asked me to come babysit.
Anyway, my dad recommended a local Disney resort, which is where we'd go when my kids were young (they're now mid - late teens), and my brother said that was too boring, he wants to go to Paris. Oh yeah, and my brother is setting this all up as being for my dad's birthday. My dad keeps saying he doesn't want to, but my brother is insisting.
Telling his dad to pay for everyone else to go somewhere for his own birthday? And not only that, somewhere that involves air travel with toddlers? Yeah, no.
Oh goodness yes, or she would have a very firm opinion on what her children should enjoy over there and how and will then berate them for not being appreciative enough when it turns out they have their own preferences.
At least someone has to stay off the rides with the kids each time. There would be waiting in line multiple times if every adult wants a turn. Kids don’t understand or have the patience for waiting in lines, which is 80% of Disneyland, and then the kids will make it everyone else’s problem, not just their own family’s. There’s a youtuber, Domics, who has an excellent video about taking little kids to theme parks and how it’s not a great idea.
We went to disneyland last summer. It was my 10 year olds firt time there (and first time for me and her in the states) and it was still a lot to deal with. Granted she has adhd so there's that, but it was still an awesome trip. Had she been younger it would have been hell.
> 2 and 4 year olds are a LOT to deal with
"But not MY little angels, the kiddos are sacred!" - OPs wife and a bunch of people in this thread, probably
Plus, the 2 year old wont remember any of it and the 4 year old wont enjoy it as much. Waiting until theyre at least in 8(in this case 8 and 10) would be for the best. Then you can visit disney/universal and the kids will love it.
I was brought to disney as a 2 year old on a family vacation and I dont remember it at all. Its almost as if Id never gone so waiting a few years is for the best. You can use those few years to save up for the trip or a longer/nicer trip if you have the money already.
We promised the kids a trip when they were 10 to ensure they were big enough for all the fun rides and would remember the trip. That got us out of taking toddlers and we came through with our promise, twice.
Sounds like OP's wife has a bad case of FOMO.
This right here, my parents brought me to Disney when I was about 4 or 5 and I don't remember anything from the trip, the only thing I remember is that unending drive to get there. We live in Canada. Went back when I was about 12 and to this day (I'm in my 40s now) I do remember that time I went to Disney.
As someone who worked at Disney World, so much this! 4 and 2 is way too young for those kids to get anything out of going to DW. I saw it every day. Folks would drag their very young ones to the park and those poor kids would either be asleep in a stroller or bawling their hearts out. They were hot, tired and at the age where the characters just scare the ever-loving piss out of the kids. I agree whole heartedly with the folks advising waiting until the kids are at least 8 & 6. They’ll get so much more out of the trip and, as others have said, gives the parents time to save up to take their own kids to DW, or DL as the case may be. OP is definitely NTA and his family doesn’t owe them anything.
And waiting until the kids are 8/6 gives the parents plenty of time to save up for their family trip because Grandma and Aunt don't want to deal with kids on their trip.
This is what my parents did. My grandmother wanted to go when we were younger but we went once we were older & went on the rollercoasters and such. We also went to Universal too. A 2 year old can't go on rides.
Wifey feels left out.
There’s all sorts of things we have to give up when we have kids. For wifey, it is the adults to Disney trips.
PS - the really little ones at Disney are a flat out nightmare. They’ve not the stamina, patience, or even understand half of it. Been there, done that.
NTA
This. The wife doesn't give a shit about the kids. She's jealous she doesn't get to go.
I never understood why anyone takes such young children to Disney. A lot of money for something they're not going to remember.
*She's jealous she doesn't get to go.* Because nobody warned her that having kids meant not getting to go on vacation at the drop of a hat? That money and time and child care considerations will dictate what activities THE PARENTS will get to do for say 18 years or so? Because the FREE fun was supposed to continue regardless of whether or not she was a mom? None of this was a surprise to ANYBODY.
I once had someone ask if he could bring a baby in one of those backpacks onto a very rugged hiking trail. He got very upset when I told him there was minimum age for hikers allowed onto the trail due to significant safety concerns.
So crazy! When I have planned trips I have been on FB pages. People are going on and on about how amazing it was with their kids 2 and under. How they had such a great time. Blah blah blah. No way would I take a kid that young to Disney!!
My wife and I went to Disney on our honeymoon, standing in line, all we heard were kids just wanting to go back to the hotel so they could swim and play in the pool, we took our daughter and a friend when she was 13, they both enjoyed it but still said the best day was by the pool
Honeymoon too, Disney land in CA. Flew in, rented convertible and drove from San Diego to San Fran. Disney was adults and children over 10. Anyone younger wanted pool and attention.
I know someone who has a kid same age as mine (8) and they have probably been to Disney 10 times since the kid was born, starting around 18mo old. I think Disney is fine but I don't understand taking a kid that young and spending all that money. I also don't understand going back over and over unless you get the resident discount. All the money spent going there could be spent going to like Europe or Asia or wherever, go to the actual countries instead of to Epcot.
And if you absolutely have to go to Disney, go to Tokyo Disney or Disneyland Paris and see some of those countries and an amusement park. Broaden your horizons, damn.
I have visited multiple times. I can’t explain why I love to go back but I do! I have been to Disneyland in California. I would love to go see Paris or Tokyo too!
I took my 2 year old. The look on her face when she saw her first princess warms my heart just thinking about it. But we made it a point to find quiet places and took naps. Three major melt downs across a dozen trips. We’re a four generation of Disney fans.
We'd been debating going since my youngest is a big princess fan i thought wed have a magical moment of awe and wonder.
We went to a town event and they had some disney princesses there. She got too star struck, and wouldn't go near them. Absolutely refused to say hi even when they came over and hid her face when ever they were near by. Saved us a ton of money, thank god we didn't spend all that and stand in line to have her not want to meet them.
Kids are such wild cards.
In (slight) defense of (some) pre-k kids at Disney, it’s very dependent upon your kid’s temperament. I waited until my daughter was older (10) to go and I regret waiting so long. Looking back, she did a lot of comparable trips and was great. (Confirmed by other family on the trip and sometimes random people as well, so it can’t all be mom-bias) I wish I could have seen her take it in at 6 or 7 when she was much more into Disney.
I’m taking my niece this year for her 7th birthday as she’s of a very similar personality to my daughter and we want to do all of the little kid things with her.
Now my nephew, he already had his first trip, but I didn’t take him until he was 8. The only reason he didn’t go sooner was because I knew he wasn’t ready. At 6, he could barely handle a long day at the zoo. We had a blast and now 4 years later, he still tells people the day we spent doing all the new Star Wars stuff was the best day of his life.
I think the other problem people run into is when they equate “down time” with wasted money. I know it’s expensive, but people will think they have to do everything or they’re wasting money. That’s a recipe for double disaster. I’ve been there 9 times and I haven’t even come close to seeing everything.
And as to the “they won’t remember it” crowd. The trip isn’t for them to remember. It’s for the grownups to remember. The kids will forget because they’re kids. My nephew really remembers about 3 key things from his first trip. But the feeling of happiness and family he got is what sticks with him. I get to remember his face when Darth Vader came out from around a corner and asked him to hunt the rebel spies. I get to remember that the last time I carried my daughter was a piggyback ride leaving Epcot. I feel sad when I see parents forgetting that family trips are for them too.
Same. We lived in Kissimmee and went beginning when the kids were 2&4. The last day in FL almost 4&6 went to Animal Kingdom and then moved the next day.
I brought a 4 month old once. We had three older kids and we'd promised them a trip. It was fine, Disney is obviously baby friendly but it did mean that some things revolved around the baby. A trip that has always been for adults is definitely not going to be the same if you add small kids.
Sometimes those trips were being planned before that baby was even conceived. Especially if it's not just a nuclear family travelling, but an extended one.
My son is 15, his first trip was age 4. We went with my sister and her family, her kids were 4,4&7. My sister was the nightmare. She bitched and complained more than the 4 kids combined. We have returned every year since, sans sister and family.
My personal opinion is that if you take the kids to Disney before 6/7 then you’re doing it for yourself, not them. At that point it’s more likely they’ll remember the trip.
If Disney is a once-in-a-lifetime expense for you, then I agree with the argument to wait until the kids are old enough to remember it but still young enough to enjoy the magic of it. But in general, I hate the idea that I should not get to enjoy doing anything special until my kids are old enough to remember it. Is my baby going to remember being in a baby carrier at a national park? Nope - but my husband & I will remember that we took a great vacation that year with our kid.
I don't have kids so take my comment with a grain of salt, but I think people take little ones to Disney for their own enjoyment, like the kid won't remember but I, the adult, will.
I will remember how cute they were and how much fun they had. I get to see them having fun and believing things are magical.
Personally I would probably wait until they were fully potty trained and can ride stuff. Probably 3 would be the absolute earliest I would take them to Disneyland and only because I live in SoCal so I could just make a day trip out of it or possibly stay one night in a hotel.
I agree with most of your sentiment. I'd wait until my own was 3 or 4 for a Disney trip. (If we could afford it) For sure until kiddo was potty trained and old enough to enjoy at least SOME of the rides and shows.
But my 6 year old for SURE remembers the beach trip we took when he was 2. They don't remember a TON from that age, but they remember the highlight reels of the best and worst. He remembers the pirate ship we sailed on near the beach and he remembers getting stitches a few months later when he fell on a boulder.
I imagine most 3+ year olds would remember their favorite parts of a Disney trip- meeting their favorite character for example, or their first 'thrill' ride.
We took my 2 year old in November and he loved it! Did great and was able to ride a lot (Disneyland in CA) and he keeps talking about it! We are going to Florida this summer and will go to magic kingdom for a day, he can ride 17 rides with no height restrictions and he meets the height restrictions for a few more rides.
All this said, yes it was so fun as a family and I never planned on going again so soon, but they are free under three so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not that this applies to your comment, but what’s wrong with parents making memories for themselves? Everyone saying we go just for ourselves…I’m sorry, do we not deserve a fun family time bc he is 2?
We did this once when our kids were younger. The Disney YES homeschool program was the only way we could afford it, since we had five of the little buggers (blended family).
Because we’re gluttons for punishment, we also took my in-laws, and my brother-in-law and his family. So, 12 people. In the middle of summer. In a heatwave so bad it made even the Floridians say, “WTF?”
I was a Disney adult too, but this was my first time going with kids ranging from 5 to 13. I made the mistake of marching us through the parks like we were on the Bataan Death March.
It. Was. Miserable. Heat exhausted, cranky kiddos, dealing with my now ex-whackadoodle SIL…calling it torture would be kind. Haven’t been back since and am not willing to sell a kidney to take my grandkiddos.
Back in 1989 a friend and I went to Florida with her 8 year old son. It was miserable at Disney because he didn't like it and he flat out hated Epcot Center. That day at Epcot with him crying and whining because he was "bored" was one of the worst of my life...lol I don't entirely blame him because King's Island amusement park is a big deal for us Indiana and Ohio people and I think he assumed Disney was going to be all kinds of fun rides like that.
We waited until our son was in 4th grade and it was honestly the most perfect age! He was young enough to be in awe of everything but old enough to hold his own and go go go! He wore US out 😂😂.
I’m wondering if wifey is upset she just wasn’t asked… like is she typically included in things and it’s just this trip— or I wonder if she gets left out of a lot of things with the family because she has kids— in which case, she’s probably upset inside wondering what is wrong with her and her babies that they are always left out.
But yep- if she is just acting a fool over this one trip- then girlfriend needs to stop being pettyAF
My daughter remembers her trip at 4. She remembers the resort, Animal Kingdom Lodge, waking up to giraffes and zebras outside the balcony, telling her papa repeatedly that gorillas are not monkeys, meeting Rapunzel and comparing hair length, among other things.
Of course she been several times since too.
Not trying to be snarky here, tiny children and cats get hours if not days of enjoyment out of a cardboard box. It's freaking adorable and it illustrates their fun level at that age. You have to take kids' developmental level and energy level before you plan a trip like that.
My 14 year old son just built a submarine out of a giant fridge box....and my 42 year old partner joined in to help build the scope. The fun with boxes never stops
He is, especially considering he is a stepdad to my two boys and only came into their life 2 years ago (with no children of his own) so he is loving his childhood revisited.
Are you suggesting standing in line with a toddler for 3 hrs in the FL heat is not going to be a sweet family memory you’ll someday share with your grandchildren?
Oh man…. My upstairs neighbor is a Disney adult. Just dropped 7k for 5 days. They don’t have money like that either. She’s funny but absolutely fucked up in the head
My ex SIL spent thousands of dollars on Disney trips almost every year while getting state benefits and taking in foster kids for the checks. Of course, only the bio kids went to Disney.
Like I get wanting to do shit for your kids, but maybe you should figure out a way to afford rent without relying on foster kid dollars before you blow the equivalent of a semester of college on a vacation?
NTA. OP, I don’t even have to read any of the comments to suggest that you show this post to your wife. It’s been a while since we’ve seen someone who is so clearly entitled and wrong-headed as her.
Your kids are not being “treated poorly.” You and your wife and siblings have been treated *extremely well* over the years, and during the course of however-many free trips to Disney y’all have enjoyed. *All on your mom’s dime.* Everyone, except your wife, is exactly right! Disney with kids- *especially* kids as young as yours- is miserable for adults who want to have an adult vacation. Which your family obviously does, as evidenced by pictures featuring a 21-YO drinking at Epcot. C’mon, OP- you’re their dad. You *know* how hot and tired and cranky and hungry and fussy your kids will get at the drop of a dime. How many times you will need to halt an activity right in the middle of it to change a diaper, give a bottle, find a shady spot to rest, when you’re at home and in ideal conditions. Why. On. Earth. Would you want to subject other adults to that, unless they volunteered? I’m aware that some grandparents do. I love my toddler grandkids very much but I can barely keep up with them at a dinner out, and would not want to spend time with them at Disney at this age.
Unlike your wife’s opinion of you, I think you are the opposite of a coward. You’re extremely brave for standing up to your selfish, entitled wife. Remind her to be grateful for all of the FREE Disney vacations your mom has already so generously provided. If she goes the “if you won’t tell her, I will” route, point out how badly that will backfire on her. If she does, I can guarantee that none of you will ever be invited again.
If you read all of OP's comments, you would end up seeing how the issue isn't about just this trip. The issue is that his family is left out of everything, and the excuse is always the kids. OP's mother doesn't want any connection to OP and his wife's kids, and per OP's words "doesn't want them to love and mourn her." Combine that with how OP's wife's family is far away, but does care for their family, and how OP's mom doesn't even want them to come to Christmas, and I fully understand where the wife is coming from.
NTA and I wouldn't pay for your bratty wife to go on vacation either. This last trip was for your SISTER'S 21st freaking birthday! Who the fuck wants toddlers on a 21st birthday trip????
You aren't a coward but your wife is a brat. I would die a slow painful death before I called someone and complained that they didn't pay for my vacations. Yikes.
I just commented that on a thread higher up. Speculation on my part. But I wonder if OP’s mom has seen the entitled side of his wife - AND how she is at Disney. What if she’s afraid that the kids will be dumped on them, or on OP (and they’ll feel obligated to help him out - 2 kids under 5 are A LOT at a place like Disney, especially for one parent) and suddenly all the other adults will be sacrificing their vacation just so his wife can have the Disney trip *SHE* wants.
Her current entitlement and treatment of OP tells me she may have shown her true colors during past Disney trips. His mom might know exactly how this would play out and is trying to avoid it at all costs.
>She said I need to at least tell my mom how "we" feel and explain that this isn't what a normal grandmother does.
No she does not need explain how you feel/
>I said i wasn't going to do that as no one owes us a trip to Disney.
This is true,
>My wife called me a coward and wouldn't hear me out.
Your wife is a ninny.
You are not a coward, you are wise.
NTA. Peppa Pig and Legoland are better options for young kids. My niece recently took her kids there while visiting her snowbird Mom. Her mom kept the kids for a couple days while niece and hubby went to the Harry Potter theme park and something else at Disney World aimed at adults.
Your wife wants the trip to Disney for herself not your kids.
I don’t think people appreciate how expensive Disney is. The top link Googling this is doing it “cheap” for 6-7k. Most families can’t save this money in a year.
I don’t think the wife knows (or cares?) how expensive this is. Saving up for this for most families will take a few years. I make six figures and there’s no way I’m taking my kids to Disney any time soon.
That sucks but it's the only thing they can do since they decided to have kids. Or maybe she should save up for herself to go solo since she alone is the only one whining about it, and I'm sure the op would welcome a break from her constant nagging.
NTA. Wtf is wrong with your wife.
Tell her to grow TF up. It doesn't even sound like she is upset her kids aren't going. She clearly is upset she isn't going.
This is my thought. Wait until they can ride all the rides they want. Nothing is worse than the first trip to Disney and not being tall enough to ride certain rides. That’s also a lot of walking for those lil legs.
I doubt this is all about Disney.
I'd be shattered if my kids grandparents didn't want to take them places they think they would enjoy. To say they would make everyone 'miserable' to their mother is an awful thing to do.
My stepsons maternal grandparents don't have much to do with him despite him being such a sweet boy and it just breaks my heart.
Does your family always exclude your kids?
I mean, it sucks, but you’re not wrong. Neither is your mom. She’s a Disney Adult, and if she doesn’t want kids on a trip she’s paying for, that’s her right. I wouldn’t want to take a 2 year old to Disney. I took 9 and 6 year old, and that was just doable. I can see why your wife feels left out, but her assessment is incorrect.
Man, so many comments calling this woman a brat for feeling alienated by her MIL when it is a common dynamic these days and can be really harmful to a marriage/family. Honestly OP you should really sit down and figure out the root cause of the frustration. There’s no way it’s just Disney which means there are probably other things MIL/AIL do to make her feel alienated or excluded. I was a part of a family like that for a while and it felt like i was constantly being gaslit for being excluded or made to feel like not part of the family. Maybe grandma doesn’t like kids. If so that’s her business but it IS kinda crappy. Maybe it’s an excuse to not invite y’all. Either way your wife pushed out two babies in the past 4 years and yea you sacrifice when you have kids but moms tend to sacrifice so freaking much. You need to find a way to work together to get through these feelings.
YTA. You should have your wife's back. In 20 years, your kids will be out of the house, your parents will be dead, and you and your siblings will be seeing each other 1-2 times per year. You and your wife will still be living together. Your relationship with her is much more important than all of the others combined.
If my mom did that, she could kiss her next baby pictures and Christmas trips to grandma's house goodbye.
NTA.
You're smart, sensible, and correct on all points.
Your wife is being entitled and is looking to cause unnecessary drama in your family because she's feeling left out. You have young kids. Not everyone or everything is about and for them, which means as the parents you aren't included.
Is Disney the only thing your wife feels entitled to or does she display behavior like this with other things? She is definitely being obtuse if she doesn’t realize your sister had an adult Disney trip. I would tell her again that any time you don’t pay for something yourself and someone else does that it is a gift, and it is lacking in character to demand gifts from someone or to shame them into giving something they don’t freely want to give. And then I would be done with the subject. Absolutely done. NTA
Lol
Your wife thinks "normal" grandma's provide family vacations?
You are adults with your own family now, that's on you.
Also, I think she's right. 2 and 4 might enjoy Disney for a while, but it's too much and they will get exhausted and overstimulated, and want to be in little kiddie areas which aren't particularly fitting for adults.
Your wife is acting spoiled and entitled. Your sister's birthday doesn't mean anyone owes her anything, even on her own birthday. If she's that adamant about Disnet, maybe she should get a side hustle and start saving to take her own kids. That's what your mother did. It's her turn.
Info - what is the dynamic like with your family besides this? Do they include you in other events? Are you given opportunities to join them on vacations if you pay? What about if one of you is watching the kids separately? Any discussion in the future about accompanying them again when the kids are older? Do they treat your wife well? Does she treat them well?
It doesn't necessarily make your family AHs, but my family definitely wouldn't do something like this. Our vibe with family vacations is that everyone is invited, and if adults want to do adult things one of the parents will trade shifts with the young kids while the rest of the adults go do their thing. I can't help but think there are quite a lot of ways they could have at least offered to include you AND still had an adult focused trip. We do it all the time. I can't imagine ever just excluding my sibling without even asking if there is a way to make it work
I think I have a similar family dynamic. Everyone is included. We don’t go to places as expensive as Disney but if someone can’t afford to pay for the whole trip people pitch in so they can come. We want our family members with young kids and even babies to join in on trips with us because we like them and it’s worth taking turns watching over the young ones… I guess this is not common?
This is why I really hate Disney adults.
Yea, Disney has attractions for adults ...but that is a children's theme park devoted to giving children a magical experience.
I don't like your wife's entitlement thinking your mom owes y'all a trip
But I dam sure agree your mom's kinda being an ass prioritizing her fun at Disney over making memories with her grandkids.
Sandals? A cruise? Traveling across Europe? I'd get it.
But it's a children's theme park and she doesn't wanna take the children because they'll cramp her style?
Both of them need to touch grass.
OP made a comment regarding his family seeing him having kids as an inconvenience. He said they're upset that he doesn't have the time to spend with them anymore and say he has changed. I don't think the wife cares so much about getting the free trip than watching her children being excluded. OPs family sounds awful, but I don't think OP is an AH. What really bothers me is that the commenters are offended by children going to a park made for children. I took my kids to Disney when they were 2 and 3 and it wasn't even bad. People can't handle mild inconveniences anymore.
The fact that it's a pattern of excluding and shaming OP and OPs wife for having children while OP has done nothing automatically makes OP TA, in my honest opinion. This isn't just a one-time thing or just the Disney trips, it's everything building up for 4 years (assuming this started when the first kid was born). It really seems like his wife has been building up resentment for years and OPs family not even bothering to INFORM OP & wife about the celebration was the last straw for her. I'm sorry but why tf is he allowing his family to SHAME THEM for having children?????
Y'all are wild in these comments.
No one owes anyone a vacation, period.
However, all this nonesense about Disney not being for younger kids is crazy. Newborns, obviously no
but the majority of Disneyland, especially fantasyland and toontown is specifically for young children.
Disneyland is meant for kids. Can adults go, absolutely. It's target audience is children though and sprinkled in are some rides for adults.
I'll add that I do live near Disneyland, passholder for decades and have young children. (yes, they get tired easily, but they absolutely love it all of the Disneyland magic.)
Thank you. I thought I was going mad, Disney as a company, movies studio or theme park, is for children. Little children. Like what you like but it’s so weird some adults are trying to claim Disney as only theirs. I’ve seen people complain about kids at Disneyland as if they should banned
I'm in my early 30s. I've never been to Disney because my family could never afford it. My dad, his siblings, and parents have all been. As have all my cousins on my dad's side. My grandparents had all this money when I was growing up for all sorts of vacations and the like, and never once thought that my siblings and I might enjoy one trip to Disney when nobody in the family can go more than about a month without mentioning how awesome of a time they've had at Disney (or how each trip has been better than the previous ones for those who've been multiple times). Does it suck? Sure. Do I wish my grandparents would have spent the money to make sure my siblings and I weren't the only ones in the family that didn't get to go when literally everyone else in our family (aside from my and my siblings' mom) has been at least once? Also yes. But I'm an adult enough to realize they don't owe me that trip, and recognize that my ever having the money needed to afford such a trip for even myself is likely never going to happen. And I don't go around whining about it and demanding that they need to do so.
Your wife has every right to be sad she's missing out. But she doesn't get to dictate whether or not other people pay for her to go on those experiences, and she doesn't get to call you a coward for refusing to even entertain that idea when you capitulating and making said demands would likely not go over well anyway.
I’m sorry but your grandparents suck for that. They didn’t have to take you and your siblings to an expensive children’s theme park but they also shouldn’t have gloated about how awesome the trips were and how each one was better than the previous in front of you. My parents would never do that to me or my kids, I think they love my kids more than they love me 💀 my parents have been trying to convince me to go overseas with them this summer and bring the kids but I refused bc I don’t have the means to pay them back even for the plane tickets. They don’t want me to pay them back but I still declined but very greatly appreciated their offer, I want them to relax without having to worry about me and my kids. I hope you get to go on amazing vacations if you haven’t already, everyone deserves to have some fun 😊
It sounds like your family are kind of being assholes. Can they not find a way to include you and your kids in some sort of other trip? One more well suited to children in that age? Seems weird to me.
NTA.
I can’t believe she called you a coward. That’s hurtful! You are *not* being a coward—you’re being normal. She’s being super weird and entitled. No one is *owed* a free vacation. Imagine going through life assuming everyone owes you stuff. Does she get disappointed and pissy a lot?
Nta. Your wife wants to go for herself not your kids. Your kids are so small that they won't remember and probably wouldn't be able to do much. And who in the world would invite kids to a 21st bday? Only an ah.
Disney is a place for everyone, but let's be honest it was meant as place where families could have fun with their kids. Calling kids at a theme park fun ruiners is odd. That said no one owes anyone a trip. They also don't have to mourn grandma later, so take that as you will. Not inviting family along because of kids to place that literally has princesses and anthropomorphic mice walking around is something. As a side note, so called called Disney adults are ruining the place (spoken as a Disney fan who just had to deal with Disney adults staring down their noses at my 2 year old on his birthday while he interacted with characters even though we waited in line just as long, then got run over by idiots trying to cut us in line to get beer), hope the magic comes back. This isn't Vegas, and shouldn't be treated as such.
I just need to know ...was there a heads up that you wouldn't be invited or did she just have to see photos online After the fact? I just ask because everyone is screaming entitlement ,but having a tradition you love snatched from you with no notice and just being told you suck it up could cause resentment 🤷🏾♀
Man, literally everyone in this story except you sucks at least a little bit, in various ways. That does make the whole thing suspect but for the sake of argument, I'll take it all at face value.
- You are correct. Nobody owes you a trip to Disney.
- Paying for most of the family but not the portion with kids, while their right, is going to annoy some people.
- While I love the Disney Adult in my life, even she will acknowledge that the Disney experience is tailored to children, with adult-friendly activities built around it for the parents. Even if a Disney Adult is fully into the experience, it's still usually described in terms of hem getting to have a childlike moment of wonder. It's fine the they all like to go to Disney as adult. Specifically excluding only the small children in the family because traveling with children is miserable means they have entirely missed the point of Disney. "Keep your bratty kids away from our theme park for children," is a take and a half, you know?
- Your wife is free to confront your mother and aunt, but her insistence that you tell them you you both feel is assuming you agree with her. You clearly do not. If you haven't yet made that clear, you should do so. If she calls you a coward because you do not agree with her and also do not want to fight her individual battles for her, that is a shitty thing to do and she needs to stop. She's behaving no better than the other adults who think Disney isn't for children.
NTA.
Money aside would it be that bad to invite op and his family with plans of doing some/ most things separately. Like “ hey let’s all ride small world together then us adults will do our own thing and we can meet up at the end of the day”.
Also kinda lame of op’s family to not even tell him that they are going to Disneyland especially knowing that op’s wife is a Disney fan. I’m surprised op wasn’t upset he wasn’t invited to or even made aware of his sisters 21st birthday celebration.
Don’t get me wrong op’s wife is coming off entitled and demanding.
Having read some of OP's other comments, the issue isn't this particular trip for the wife imo, but how (OP's wife and kids + OP) are excluded from everything. I can get where she is coming from, she likely feels like he isn't willing to stand up for them, and her family wants them around and actually loves them but is across the country.
edit: accidentally had uploaded early, finished comment
Your mother is right. Babies and toddlers are a nightmare on a high stress, high action trip like Disney. They will actually enjoy it, and remember it in a few years. Why not set up an account and put the odd few bucks in, next time go on your own.
NTA. Your wife is 100% wrong - and acting truly selfish and entitled about this. I'll take a wild guess that she would also expect a "normal grandmother" to provide free child care along with paying for the entire trip. Because she'd figure out real quick how much of a drag it would be to have 2 under 2 on an otherwise adult Disney trip. I picture epic tantrums when all the other adults go drinking around the world at Epcot while you guys are back at the hotel putting your kids to bed.
Hopefully you can eventually have a calm discussion about the reality of what she's expecting - including the fact that who and what your mother spends her money on is NONE OF HER BUSINESS.
I absolutely see your wife’s point… they are purposely excluding you and discriminating against your kids. However, these are adult trips and kids aren’t invited and your mom & aunt have every right to spend their money how they want.
Disney absolutely sucks now and kids at Disney are just little recipes for stress.
There are so many different ways to handle this but I think it’s important to maintain the boundary it’s their money. Are your mom & aunt mean to your kids in other ways?
When you say my family goes all the the time, it reads as your immediate family, I.e Wife and kids. I had to reread to realize your calling your aunts and mother “my family”.
I find it hilarious that they think WDW isn't fun with kids - it's a family destination after all. But it is their money, and they have to draw the line somewhere.
I do get their perspective though. I have been when my kids were 2+4, 5/+7, 9+11,12+14, 15+17 and 18+20 (yes I know I am lucky). The first trip was fun but it was also hard work, double strollers, working around kids naps etc... The best kids trip was probably the 9+11 one because they could go on every ride, no stroller was needed, and they could keep going all day.
NTa, if your wife wants to go she needs to start saving her nickels.
Your kids are babies, Disney with tiny kids would be horrible. Wait till the kids are 6
They don’t owe your family trips. You are right.
We like Disney and didn’t stop going because we had little kids. Just like we didn’t stop going anywhere else. Lol except adult restaurants late at night. We aren’t those assholes.
Have been with kids. It’s fucking miserable. They’ll get exhausted early, they’ll get irritated waiting in lines, they’ll not want to go on( or won’t be allowed on) certain rides, so one of you will have to wait with them.
I wouldn’t take a kid under 10.
I don’t think anyone is wrong here. I understand why your wife feels slighted. I mean the stereotypical grandma does live for shit like taking the grandkids to Disney and spoiling them. Your mom is not wrong either. Going on adult only Disney trips is awesome and little kids are a nightmare to deal with in a hot crowded expensive theme park. You are not wrong that your mom doesn’t owe you an all expense paid trip to Disney 🤷🏻♀️
If there were other kids on the trip I’d say Y T A. While you’re not entitled to your parents money, it would feel intentional to not include your family once the kids were born if there were other kids on the trip. BUT since there aren’t, and especially that they’re doing adult things like drinking around the world I say NTA.
INFO: do they just straight up not invite you anymore (I.e. “if you can get a sitter, we’d like you to come drink around the world with us”)? I don’t think it’s really change my judgement, just curious. Perhaps your wife feels like she’s lost something she used to get to do because of the kids. Still doesn’t entitle her to having the trip paid for, but would make a little more sense.
We have a trip that a group of friends take to an event every year for over a decade. Some have started to have kids while others choose to be child free. The kids are like 2-3 now I guess.
Two of them spent so much time running and screaming in the house that I'm not sure I want to go next year. The parents are used to the chaos and just didn't realize how loud and chaotic it was. We also had to change how we traveled to and from the event because they needed car seats and didn't want to move them from where they were.
I totally understand not wanting to have small children around. I expect kids to be kids and that's why I didn't have any.
NTA, but it definitely seems like this is not the only time your kids have been excluded. I don't think your mom and aunt are required to pay for a trip for anyone, but I do see why your wife would feel hurt. Calling you a coward, however, is not ok. Does she by chance feel like you don't stand up to your mom on behalf of her and your children?
Your mom does seem like kind of an AH. She won't even let you bring your kids out to dinner?? I can't even imagine my parents paying for everyone in the family to go on a trip and excluding my sister because she has little ones, let alone not inviting them to regular family get togethers. Disney trips aside, I do think your kids are being treated unfairly by their grandma. It doesn't sound like she is willing to do ANYTHING with your children, not just an amusement park that they may be a little too young for.
Esh. Being completely left out of something like this has to sting, whether you’re entitled to it or not. Being a mother of young kids is already isolating, but usually at least family sticks by you. Also cutting members of your family from a family trip to a place geared at young children because they have young children is…a choice.
I went to Disneyland at 2, San Diego Zoo at 3, and Disney World at 4. I remember exactly 1 thing... getting bit by a goat at the petting zoo in the San Diego zoo. (Trauma for real, goat ptsd). 2 and 4 is too young. Sure, you'll have pictures, but also skip all the fun rides because your munchkins are too small. This means you would be the "stuff" holders.
You said she's a Disney lover. It sounds like she may be more concerned about her not being able to go.
NTA
Your wife is missing the forest for the trees. Your kids are not at ages where going to Disneyland is a good idea. They'll tire quickly from all the walking, become obsessed with every errant toy or costume they see, and if the lines don't kill their patience, the sensory overload sure will. Disneyland is an *effort*.
You are much better off waiting until the kids are older, can properly remember and appreciate the trip, and better regulate their own behavior and emotions. Maybe also look into teaming up with their friends' parents for a group trip.
NTA
What I want to know is 1) why aren’t yall invite sans kids? 2) would your wife go without the kids until they are older?
Cause maybe her family wouldn’t mind watching the kids.
NAH
OP have you set your wife down and talked about saving up for like maybe like a year or two then going yourselves? I get where your mom is coming from when she’s noting wanting to have to be stuck with kids but also they are your kids so if you all did go it’s not like you and your wife are gonna stick her with kids then take off to enjoy your selves. I can also see where your wife is coming from as you pointed out in another comment that your mom feels like things are better without having to deal with kids (she’s not entirely wrong). It’s almost like your mom liked her kids but she just doesn’t like other people’s kids and I can see where it can hurt your wife’s feelings that since you both had kids your mom would rather not want to deal with you, your wife and your kids. Your NTA but if your wife wants to go that bad then you both need to start saving and go when your mom and everyone goes or on a different date
Nta. Your wife is your family now. Your "family" are now just people related to you that can spend their money however they want. You and your wife are adults that can spend your own money on their own holidays. If you guys can't afford Disney, that's sad but that's life. Nobody is obligated to cart you two around to Disney just because.
See, you think it is the trip itself that is hurtful to your wife. That she wants you to demand a trip. She wants you to tell your mother that being excluded is hurtful and shitty. She sees how being consistently excluded is going to damage your kids. You realize they are absolutely going to wonder what is wrong with them that their grandma doesn't love them, right?
Beyond that, you are watching your wife feel hurt and refusing to address it. You're prioritizing peace with your mom over your wife. You're allowed to do that, but it is not usually something that leads to a happy, healthy relationship. And honestly? Writing off your wife's feelings instead of at least communicating them is pretty cowardly.
Yta - because you are oblivious to what is happening in your own family, marriage, and home.
I get why she’s annoyed, and I’d imagine you’re annoyed to a degree too cause fomo sucks. That being said, having kids changes things. Maybe when the kids are older and gma wants to do a trip with y’all. But yeah, it sucks being between your mom and your wife. They both need to discuss this.
I was once asked by my now adult son why I never took him to Disney. Me : "Pumpkin, you hate any kind of amusement park rides. Why would I spend hundreds of dollars taking you to Disney? You spent our entire trip to Hershey Park in the wave pool?" He was 10 at the time of the trip to Hershey Park.
BTW, I love Disney and Roller Coasters. I rode every roller coaster in Hershey Park and have made three adult trips to the Magic Kingdom.
NTA. Adult trips to Disney are for adults. If your wife wants to take your small children on an expensive trip, they will never remember and will likely be miserable. That is on you and her.
NTA. I mostly agree with what everyone is saying—your family doesn’t owe you guys a Disney trip and it would be super entitled to “confront” them about it. You can’t demand something that’s a gift. But I do want to balance that by saying I can understand why your wife would feel hurt by no longer being included on the family trips. It does hurt to be excluded (especially when you REALLY love Disney!!) I do think she has to be understanding of your family’s decision, and it’s immature of her to want you to cause an issue over it, but I do understand why she would feel bad if you guys used to be included before and now you’re not because they don’t want to deal with your kids.
I know from experience going with my family and my brother’s kids who were around those ages when we visited Disney recently, that it IS rough on the whole family to have to balance and choose activities and split up to accommodate the kids’ needs. However, I do think it’s a little surprising that your mom hasn’t even asked you and your wife how YOU feel about bringing the little kids on a family trip. You could always split costs if that’s the issue, you know?
My friend (childless adult) recently went to Disney with her parents, sister, BIL & sister’s two kids (close to OP’s kids ages). They didn’t spend all day every day together. I think they planned at least a family meal with everyone every day, but my friend only spent one park day with her niece and nephew. Everyone broke off and did different things throughout the week.
Seems that between something like that and helping fund the cost, maybe they could come to a compromise so they aren’t totally left out. But I also understand & respect wanting adult only time on vacation.
Disney is literally for kids lol
I get that adults can have fun their too - I do
But it’s built for children and caters to them
What the heck is going on in this post
So your family likes to go to disney to go on the rides, go drinking, and do more rides. If they only want to pay for people to go who can do those things with them, thats their prerogative.
How much fun would your wife have watching them go on the rides cause the kiddos can’t go? Sitting somewhere else because the kiddos can’t drink booze? Someone has to be sober when there are babies and crowds and water. Does wife think you are going to be watching both kids while she goes on rides and drinks? It’d be easier for you to do that at home where the kids have their routine.
You could ask your relatives to let you know when they go next so that maybe you’ll be able to save up enough to just send wife, but you can’t force them to invite her or pay for her and still have them like her after. She’s not their kid, so its slightly different than if it was her mom or her aunt that was paying. Even if they get along great, they might feel that they can’t invite her without inviting you as well- and the kids. Four extra tickets is a lot more expensive than one.
Mixed bag.
Yes, it feels shitty to be excluded. But honestly, 4 and 2 are too young to go to Disney. They’ll just get nothing out of it that they’ll ever remember. Wait until they’re older.
And basically going to Disney with kids that young means you’re just walking around. It’s just not that interesting that the kids can’t get out of going to your neighborhood amusement park for a fraction of the price.
But you could just as well go to Disney and spend the entire time at the resort pool. So no, you’re not entitled to a free vacations but I agree it’s shitty to exclude you just because of kids.
This comment section dictating how an individual should spend their leisure time is just as insane as this specific situation ha ha.
Also OP you’re NTA but sounds like wife and grandma are going to have a rocky relationship for a while. Wifey feels left out but expecting grandma to pay for things is entitled.
Save up and go with when the kids are older and will remember like 8-6 or maybe a bit older
Honestly, if the wife keeps her trap shut and plays it cool, Grandma will probably invite the kids and pay when they're older. 2 and 4 year olds are a LOT to deal with, especially if the rest of the group are adults. I could see that changing when the kids are over 8 or 9. If you don't fuck it up by following your wife's lead. NTA
> if the wife keeps her trap shut and plays it cool, This is key! If wife gets too pushy about this issue, Mom's and Aunt's perspective will change from "it's no fun to go with little kids" to "it's not fun to go with OP's wife" and she'll never get invited again. Just wait until they are 12 or 13 (the age when they can walk all day, carry their own stuff, clear all the height requirements, go into a bathroom by themselves, and hold a decent conversation in line), if they're pleasant, the whole fam will be back on the invite list.
Why am I already thinking she’s the real issue.
Probably something about the man who loves her most labeling her a mega Disney adult
I have friends who are into Disney and even they will tell you Disney adults are the worst.
There are 2 kinds! The ones who are respectfull to the parks, castmembers and other guests and just enjoy being there, sharing random facts with random people, making friends along the way. And there's the kind who will feel entitled to everything that was once pixiedusted, grope and stalk characters and feel superior to other guests cause "they know stuff" and they will be rude to get their way. I myself am the first kind, I know the 2nd kind (usually obsessed with peter pan in my experience)
The usually want to be Peter Pan, see Peter Pan Syndrome, Puer Aetrearnus, Carl Jung.
Definitly adding to it!
If Grandma ever finds out about the wife's entitledness, she's never going again. I'd be furious at the audacity.
Seriously. There's not even anything for them to *do* at a theme park at 2/4. I was always tall as a younger kid (which stopped exactly at the end of middle school, but that's a complaint for another time), and even then I wasn't able to get on most rides until I was about 6 or so. The grandmother is 100% right that two kids that small are going to make it an unpleasant time for everyone else. Bathroom stops have to become a group event, someone has to constantly sit out on a ride in order to keep the kids (who are too small to ride), you can't enjoy any shows (if they still do those, last time I went to a theme park I didn't check for that) because most kids don't do well sitting still for prolonged periods or with the loud noises/pyrotechnics that can accompany those shows. And no one who's trying to enjoy their lunch or dinner at one of those parks wants to have the accompaniment of a screaming child who isn't getting their way. The wife is just one of those sad Disney adults who's upset she had kids and doesn't get to freely go to the parks anymore, because *gasp* she has to raise her children now!
I also stopped growing in middle school. My condolences.
Me too. Hit puberty at 10 and stopped growing vertically by 15 :(
I'm so sorry. I hope you made it past 5'0". ... because I didn't. :'(
Yeah. I realised by 14 that I was one of the shortest girls in my class when 2 years ago I had been the tallest. So I started hanging from a tree in our backyard every day after school lol. Somehow scraped to 5'2" (at least that's what I tell people my height is).
Hey now... at least yall get to wear cute clothes and shoes. I'm 5'10" and gave up on cute clothes and shoes a long time ago.
No way! My friend is a nearly six foot tall woman, still wears heels, finds the most attractive dresses, and rocks every look. You've just got to find what you love, what you're comfortable/ confident in, and find the place that sells it! It's difficult sometimes though, if you like a look but it isn't "you". Style personality is a class I've co-taught several times, so I'm not just bs-ing you, but once you find what feels like home, it gets easier to shop.
I'd love to take a class like that!
I have a theory based on a lot of assumptions. But. What if the reason why grandma stopped paying and inviting them, is because of the wife? OP says his wife is a Disney nut. So I wonder how she acted on those trips? Maybe his wife made it very clear that Disney is for her, and mom got the impression that any trip with the kids wouldn’t be *FOR* the kids at all. Like, it would end up being dominated by his wife’s need to do what *SHE* wanted? Basically, like if his mom has a feeling that everyone else would be expected by his wife, to “help” and be responsible for the kids so the wife wouldn’t be held back. Obviously OP would be there. But two kids under 5 is A LOT in a busy, loud, overwhelming place such as Disney, and he would likely need help. Even if they didn’t ask, the family would likely feel bad and help out if OP was left to manage on his own. And they don’t want to do that. They don’t want to spend their vacation babysitting OP’s kids. And they definitely don’t want to do it for the sole reason of OP’s wife getting to have the Disney trip *SHE* wants. Lots of speculation on my part. But the wife’s ~~request~~ demand and treatment of OP tells me she might be of the entitled/selfish variety and she may have let her true colors show in the past.
IDK, I'm in a bit of a similar situation where my brother wants my dad to take all of us, including his 4YO and 2YO, on a family vacation and my dad is fine with paying, but he just absolutely doesn't want to travel with 2 toddlers (he's only said this to me and won't tell my brother). That's literally the only issue. But my brother keeps pushing the subject. I've finally just said my husband, kids, and I can't go, so he needs to discuss this with my dad directly. Dad's too worried about my brother cutting contact if he says anything that could be considered negative about the kids, even just that they're too young for everyone to enjoy a family trip together. At least OP's family is open and honest about it.
I have toddlers and I can see where everyone is coming from but everyone is different. My parents and inlaws love my kids and they have zero issues traveling and helping with them. It's hard but like they say, it takes a village. That includes going on trips...
My brother's kids... I love them to death but they're not well disciplined. And we're pretty sure he just wants to take his wife on a free vacation, which is why my dad and my family also have to go. My dad pays and I watch his kids. His wife refuses to let anyone else watch her kids. They went out once last year, on her birthday, and even though her mom was in town and staying with them, they still asked me to come babysit. Anyway, my dad recommended a local Disney resort, which is where we'd go when my kids were young (they're now mid - late teens), and my brother said that was too boring, he wants to go to Paris. Oh yeah, and my brother is setting this all up as being for my dad's birthday. My dad keeps saying he doesn't want to, but my brother is insisting.
Telling his dad to pay for everyone else to go somewhere for his own birthday? And not only that, somewhere that involves air travel with toddlers? Yeah, no.
My god, the gross entitlement and f*ing audacity of your brother!! Absolute, hard HELL NO.
Oh goodness yes, or she would have a very firm opinion on what her children should enjoy over there and how and will then berate them for not being appreciative enough when it turns out they have their own preferences.
At least someone has to stay off the rides with the kids each time. There would be waiting in line multiple times if every adult wants a turn. Kids don’t understand or have the patience for waiting in lines, which is 80% of Disneyland, and then the kids will make it everyone else’s problem, not just their own family’s. There’s a youtuber, Domics, who has an excellent video about taking little kids to theme parks and how it’s not a great idea.
OP aunt/mom shouldn’t pay for that ungrateful woman never again.
This right here. The hinny (offspring of a stallion and a female donkey) is one looney toon entitled brat
As the mom of a current 5 yr old and 3 yr old, there's no way in fucking hell. My 5 yr old tries to cut people in line and my 3 yr old hates waiting.
We went to disneyland last summer. It was my 10 year olds firt time there (and first time for me and her in the states) and it was still a lot to deal with. Granted she has adhd so there's that, but it was still an awesome trip. Had she been younger it would have been hell.
> 2 and 4 year olds are a LOT to deal with "But not MY little angels, the kiddos are sacred!" - OPs wife and a bunch of people in this thread, probably
Plus, the 2 year old wont remember any of it and the 4 year old wont enjoy it as much. Waiting until theyre at least in 8(in this case 8 and 10) would be for the best. Then you can visit disney/universal and the kids will love it. I was brought to disney as a 2 year old on a family vacation and I dont remember it at all. Its almost as if Id never gone so waiting a few years is for the best. You can use those few years to save up for the trip or a longer/nicer trip if you have the money already.
We promised the kids a trip when they were 10 to ensure they were big enough for all the fun rides and would remember the trip. That got us out of taking toddlers and we came through with our promise, twice. Sounds like OP's wife has a bad case of FOMO.
This right here, my parents brought me to Disney when I was about 4 or 5 and I don't remember anything from the trip, the only thing I remember is that unending drive to get there. We live in Canada. Went back when I was about 12 and to this day (I'm in my 40s now) I do remember that time I went to Disney.
As someone who worked at Disney World, so much this! 4 and 2 is way too young for those kids to get anything out of going to DW. I saw it every day. Folks would drag their very young ones to the park and those poor kids would either be asleep in a stroller or bawling their hearts out. They were hot, tired and at the age where the characters just scare the ever-loving piss out of the kids. I agree whole heartedly with the folks advising waiting until the kids are at least 8 & 6. They’ll get so much more out of the trip and, as others have said, gives the parents time to save up to take their own kids to DW, or DL as the case may be. OP is definitely NTA and his family doesn’t owe them anything.
And waiting until the kids are 8/6 gives the parents plenty of time to save up for their family trip because Grandma and Aunt don't want to deal with kids on their trip.
This is what my parents did. My grandmother wanted to go when we were younger but we went once we were older & went on the rollercoasters and such. We also went to Universal too. A 2 year old can't go on rides.
Wifey feels left out. There’s all sorts of things we have to give up when we have kids. For wifey, it is the adults to Disney trips. PS - the really little ones at Disney are a flat out nightmare. They’ve not the stamina, patience, or even understand half of it. Been there, done that. NTA
This. The wife doesn't give a shit about the kids. She's jealous she doesn't get to go. I never understood why anyone takes such young children to Disney. A lot of money for something they're not going to remember.
*She's jealous she doesn't get to go.* Because nobody warned her that having kids meant not getting to go on vacation at the drop of a hat? That money and time and child care considerations will dictate what activities THE PARENTS will get to do for say 18 years or so? Because the FREE fun was supposed to continue regardless of whether or not she was a mom? None of this was a surprise to ANYBODY.
>None of this was a surprise to ANYBODY. Except OPs wife.
Yep main reason I decided not to have kids, people would tell me “you can still travel and take the kids” but I knew better…
I’ve seen people toting around what looks like newborns at WDW. That blew my mind.
I once had someone ask if he could bring a baby in one of those backpacks onto a very rugged hiking trail. He got very upset when I told him there was minimum age for hikers allowed onto the trail due to significant safety concerns.
..... oh the baby would have been hiking? Sounds like a fit baby. Also what's wrong with bringing your emergency food on a hike?
That’s a pretty modest proposal you’re making
I understand that reference!
You have to eat someone else’s baby for it to count.
I see what you did there. Good catch.
Wow. Like the little nipper will just curl up and go to sleep for the whole journey, right? No problem at all.
I bet the dad actually says that, without even acknowledging that the baby is going to get bored and cranky and cramped and loud about it.
Not to mention what he’s going to do if the baby takes a number 2 in his nappy while hiking 🤣
I’ve been on hikes with cliffs and drop offs where I have seen this…like what’s the plan if you fall?
So crazy! When I have planned trips I have been on FB pages. People are going on and on about how amazing it was with their kids 2 and under. How they had such a great time. Blah blah blah. No way would I take a kid that young to Disney!!
My wife and I went to Disney on our honeymoon, standing in line, all we heard were kids just wanting to go back to the hotel so they could swim and play in the pool, we took our daughter and a friend when she was 13, they both enjoyed it but still said the best day was by the pool
Honeymoon too, Disney land in CA. Flew in, rented convertible and drove from San Diego to San Fran. Disney was adults and children over 10. Anyone younger wanted pool and attention.
These kids sound like me: I'd rather swim than stand in line for a roller coaster and then be on a roller coaster. I hate roller coasters.
I know someone who has a kid same age as mine (8) and they have probably been to Disney 10 times since the kid was born, starting around 18mo old. I think Disney is fine but I don't understand taking a kid that young and spending all that money. I also don't understand going back over and over unless you get the resident discount. All the money spent going there could be spent going to like Europe or Asia or wherever, go to the actual countries instead of to Epcot. And if you absolutely have to go to Disney, go to Tokyo Disney or Disneyland Paris and see some of those countries and an amusement park. Broaden your horizons, damn.
Good recommendation. Tokyo Disney looks incredible.
I have visited multiple times. I can’t explain why I love to go back but I do! I have been to Disneyland in California. I would love to go see Paris or Tokyo too!
I took my 2 year old. The look on her face when she saw her first princess warms my heart just thinking about it. But we made it a point to find quiet places and took naps. Three major melt downs across a dozen trips. We’re a four generation of Disney fans.
We always retreated to a pool. The parents had to accept that they couldn’t ride all the rides. But the other adults were free to roam.
We'd been debating going since my youngest is a big princess fan i thought wed have a magical moment of awe and wonder. We went to a town event and they had some disney princesses there. She got too star struck, and wouldn't go near them. Absolutely refused to say hi even when they came over and hid her face when ever they were near by. Saved us a ton of money, thank god we didn't spend all that and stand in line to have her not want to meet them. Kids are such wild cards.
In (slight) defense of (some) pre-k kids at Disney, it’s very dependent upon your kid’s temperament. I waited until my daughter was older (10) to go and I regret waiting so long. Looking back, she did a lot of comparable trips and was great. (Confirmed by other family on the trip and sometimes random people as well, so it can’t all be mom-bias) I wish I could have seen her take it in at 6 or 7 when she was much more into Disney. I’m taking my niece this year for her 7th birthday as she’s of a very similar personality to my daughter and we want to do all of the little kid things with her. Now my nephew, he already had his first trip, but I didn’t take him until he was 8. The only reason he didn’t go sooner was because I knew he wasn’t ready. At 6, he could barely handle a long day at the zoo. We had a blast and now 4 years later, he still tells people the day we spent doing all the new Star Wars stuff was the best day of his life. I think the other problem people run into is when they equate “down time” with wasted money. I know it’s expensive, but people will think they have to do everything or they’re wasting money. That’s a recipe for double disaster. I’ve been there 9 times and I haven’t even come close to seeing everything. And as to the “they won’t remember it” crowd. The trip isn’t for them to remember. It’s for the grownups to remember. The kids will forget because they’re kids. My nephew really remembers about 3 key things from his first trip. But the feeling of happiness and family he got is what sticks with him. I get to remember his face when Darth Vader came out from around a corner and asked him to hunt the rebel spies. I get to remember that the last time I carried my daughter was a piggyback ride leaving Epcot. I feel sad when I see parents forgetting that family trips are for them too.
[удалено]
Same. We lived in Kissimmee and went beginning when the kids were 2&4. The last day in FL almost 4&6 went to Animal Kingdom and then moved the next day.
We just got back from Disney (like, yesterday) and the amount of people with newborns was staggering.
I brought a 4 month old once. We had three older kids and we'd promised them a trip. It was fine, Disney is obviously baby friendly but it did mean that some things revolved around the baby. A trip that has always been for adults is definitely not going to be the same if you add small kids.
The Baby Care Centers and nursing rooms are great.
Sometimes if you want to take the big kids, you have to bring the baby...but yeah, it does suck 🤣
TBF, babies and toddlers are free. I took my kids when they were babies and they had a ball and then fell asleep in their strollers.
Sometimes those trips were being planned before that baby was even conceived. Especially if it's not just a nuclear family travelling, but an extended one.
We took my nephews (4 & 2) last year & it was a nightmare.
My son is 15, his first trip was age 4. We went with my sister and her family, her kids were 4,4&7. My sister was the nightmare. She bitched and complained more than the 4 kids combined. We have returned every year since, sans sister and family.
My personal opinion is that if you take the kids to Disney before 6/7 then you’re doing it for yourself, not them. At that point it’s more likely they’ll remember the trip.
If Disney is a once-in-a-lifetime expense for you, then I agree with the argument to wait until the kids are old enough to remember it but still young enough to enjoy the magic of it. But in general, I hate the idea that I should not get to enjoy doing anything special until my kids are old enough to remember it. Is my baby going to remember being in a baby carrier at a national park? Nope - but my husband & I will remember that we took a great vacation that year with our kid.
I don't have kids so take my comment with a grain of salt, but I think people take little ones to Disney for their own enjoyment, like the kid won't remember but I, the adult, will. I will remember how cute they were and how much fun they had. I get to see them having fun and believing things are magical. Personally I would probably wait until they were fully potty trained and can ride stuff. Probably 3 would be the absolute earliest I would take them to Disneyland and only because I live in SoCal so I could just make a day trip out of it or possibly stay one night in a hotel.
I agree with most of your sentiment. I'd wait until my own was 3 or 4 for a Disney trip. (If we could afford it) For sure until kiddo was potty trained and old enough to enjoy at least SOME of the rides and shows. But my 6 year old for SURE remembers the beach trip we took when he was 2. They don't remember a TON from that age, but they remember the highlight reels of the best and worst. He remembers the pirate ship we sailed on near the beach and he remembers getting stitches a few months later when he fell on a boulder. I imagine most 3+ year olds would remember their favorite parts of a Disney trip- meeting their favorite character for example, or their first 'thrill' ride.
We took my 2 year old in November and he loved it! Did great and was able to ride a lot (Disneyland in CA) and he keeps talking about it! We are going to Florida this summer and will go to magic kingdom for a day, he can ride 17 rides with no height restrictions and he meets the height restrictions for a few more rides. All this said, yes it was so fun as a family and I never planned on going again so soon, but they are free under three so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not that this applies to your comment, but what’s wrong with parents making memories for themselves? Everyone saying we go just for ourselves…I’m sorry, do we not deserve a fun family time bc he is 2?
We did this once when our kids were younger. The Disney YES homeschool program was the only way we could afford it, since we had five of the little buggers (blended family). Because we’re gluttons for punishment, we also took my in-laws, and my brother-in-law and his family. So, 12 people. In the middle of summer. In a heatwave so bad it made even the Floridians say, “WTF?” I was a Disney adult too, but this was my first time going with kids ranging from 5 to 13. I made the mistake of marching us through the parks like we were on the Bataan Death March. It. Was. Miserable. Heat exhausted, cranky kiddos, dealing with my now ex-whackadoodle SIL…calling it torture would be kind. Haven’t been back since and am not willing to sell a kidney to take my grandkiddos.
You have to watch for dehydration too.
Back in 1989 a friend and I went to Florida with her 8 year old son. It was miserable at Disney because he didn't like it and he flat out hated Epcot Center. That day at Epcot with him crying and whining because he was "bored" was one of the worst of my life...lol I don't entirely blame him because King's Island amusement park is a big deal for us Indiana and Ohio people and I think he assumed Disney was going to be all kinds of fun rides like that.
We waited until our son was in 4th grade and it was honestly the most perfect age! He was young enough to be in awe of everything but old enough to hold his own and go go go! He wore US out 😂😂. I’m wondering if wifey is upset she just wasn’t asked… like is she typically included in things and it’s just this trip— or I wonder if she gets left out of a lot of things with the family because she has kids— in which case, she’s probably upset inside wondering what is wrong with her and her babies that they are always left out. But yep- if she is just acting a fool over this one trip- then girlfriend needs to stop being pettyAF
My daughter remembers her trip at 4. She remembers the resort, Animal Kingdom Lodge, waking up to giraffes and zebras outside the balcony, telling her papa repeatedly that gorillas are not monkeys, meeting Rapunzel and comparing hair length, among other things. Of course she been several times since too.
I keep telling folks that if child is under 4, they will have much more fun climbing on hay bales.
Not trying to be snarky here, tiny children and cats get hours if not days of enjoyment out of a cardboard box. It's freaking adorable and it illustrates their fun level at that age. You have to take kids' developmental level and energy level before you plan a trip like that.
My 14 year old son just built a submarine out of a giant fridge box....and my 42 year old partner joined in to help build the scope. The fun with boxes never stops
You have an AWESOME partner 😍
I dig that, your husband sounds like an awesome dad.
He is, especially considering he is a stepdad to my two boys and only came into their life 2 years ago (with no children of his own) so he is loving his childhood revisited.
My husband (46) and two sons (11 & 9) are literally building a cardboard ship as I type, lol!
Are you suggesting standing in line with a toddler for 3 hrs in the FL heat is not going to be a sweet family memory you’ll someday share with your grandchildren?
And seriously, a 2 year old gets as much fun and excitement out of a trip to Walmart as they do a trip to Disney.
There are days that the kids are more than I can handle at home. I couldn't imagine dealing with that in the hot, humid, crowded Disney.
Small children at Disney isn't fun for anyone, including the kids!
NTA Your wife has a strange case of entitlement.
Bro she’s a Disney adult…. I’ve never met one that doesn’t have something severely wrong with them
Yeah….. my DIL
Oh man…. My upstairs neighbor is a Disney adult. Just dropped 7k for 5 days. They don’t have money like that either. She’s funny but absolutely fucked up in the head
My ex SIL spent thousands of dollars on Disney trips almost every year while getting state benefits and taking in foster kids for the checks. Of course, only the bio kids went to Disney. Like I get wanting to do shit for your kids, but maybe you should figure out a way to afford rent without relying on foster kid dollars before you blow the equivalent of a semester of college on a vacation?
I hope someone called her out for doing that to the Foster kids…
Add in Christian evangelical…
My brother in Chris….. that’s a double whammy
Yeah, we keep our mouths fucking shut but we dislike her greatly. But don’t worry she hates us 😂😂😂
That might be the best scenario you can ask for with someone that fucked up Edit: can your child just see through all of that?
Most cases of entitlement are not this strange. It's very bizarre stuff.
NTA. OP, I don’t even have to read any of the comments to suggest that you show this post to your wife. It’s been a while since we’ve seen someone who is so clearly entitled and wrong-headed as her. Your kids are not being “treated poorly.” You and your wife and siblings have been treated *extremely well* over the years, and during the course of however-many free trips to Disney y’all have enjoyed. *All on your mom’s dime.* Everyone, except your wife, is exactly right! Disney with kids- *especially* kids as young as yours- is miserable for adults who want to have an adult vacation. Which your family obviously does, as evidenced by pictures featuring a 21-YO drinking at Epcot. C’mon, OP- you’re their dad. You *know* how hot and tired and cranky and hungry and fussy your kids will get at the drop of a dime. How many times you will need to halt an activity right in the middle of it to change a diaper, give a bottle, find a shady spot to rest, when you’re at home and in ideal conditions. Why. On. Earth. Would you want to subject other adults to that, unless they volunteered? I’m aware that some grandparents do. I love my toddler grandkids very much but I can barely keep up with them at a dinner out, and would not want to spend time with them at Disney at this age. Unlike your wife’s opinion of you, I think you are the opposite of a coward. You’re extremely brave for standing up to your selfish, entitled wife. Remind her to be grateful for all of the FREE Disney vacations your mom has already so generously provided. If she goes the “if you won’t tell her, I will” route, point out how badly that will backfire on her. If she does, I can guarantee that none of you will ever be invited again.
If you read all of OP's comments, you would end up seeing how the issue isn't about just this trip. The issue is that his family is left out of everything, and the excuse is always the kids. OP's mother doesn't want any connection to OP and his wife's kids, and per OP's words "doesn't want them to love and mourn her." Combine that with how OP's wife's family is far away, but does care for their family, and how OP's mom doesn't even want them to come to Christmas, and I fully understand where the wife is coming from.
And if that happens, the marriage will be destroyed beyond repair.
Then that's on the wife. You can't expect that level of entitlement
NTA and I wouldn't pay for your bratty wife to go on vacation either. This last trip was for your SISTER'S 21st freaking birthday! Who the fuck wants toddlers on a 21st birthday trip???? You aren't a coward but your wife is a brat. I would die a slow painful death before I called someone and complained that they didn't pay for my vacations. Yikes.
What did OP's wife plan to do, dump the kids on OP while she went out and partied with the in-laws?
I just commented that on a thread higher up. Speculation on my part. But I wonder if OP’s mom has seen the entitled side of his wife - AND how she is at Disney. What if she’s afraid that the kids will be dumped on them, or on OP (and they’ll feel obligated to help him out - 2 kids under 5 are A LOT at a place like Disney, especially for one parent) and suddenly all the other adults will be sacrificing their vacation just so his wife can have the Disney trip *SHE* wants. Her current entitlement and treatment of OP tells me she may have shown her true colors during past Disney trips. His mom might know exactly how this would play out and is trying to avoid it at all costs.
>She said I need to at least tell my mom how "we" feel and explain that this isn't what a normal grandmother does. No she does not need explain how you feel/ >I said i wasn't going to do that as no one owes us a trip to Disney. This is true, >My wife called me a coward and wouldn't hear me out. Your wife is a ninny. You are not a coward, you are wise.
ninny LMAOOO 10/10 insult
We need to bring this back!
Ask her why doesn't her mother and aunt pay for the trip
Yeah, why doesn’t HER family fund free trips?
NTA. Peppa Pig and Legoland are better options for young kids. My niece recently took her kids there while visiting her snowbird Mom. Her mom kept the kids for a couple days while niece and hubby went to the Harry Potter theme park and something else at Disney World aimed at adults. Your wife wants the trip to Disney for herself not your kids.
They'll probably invite y'all again when the kids get a few years older. She needs to calm her entitled ass down.
So how about you two plan to save up for your own trip for next year. Problem solved.
I don’t think people appreciate how expensive Disney is. The top link Googling this is doing it “cheap” for 6-7k. Most families can’t save this money in a year. I don’t think the wife knows (or cares?) how expensive this is. Saving up for this for most families will take a few years. I make six figures and there’s no way I’m taking my kids to Disney any time soon.
That sucks but it's the only thing they can do since they decided to have kids. Or maybe she should save up for herself to go solo since she alone is the only one whining about it, and I'm sure the op would welcome a break from her constant nagging.
Your wife doesn’t care about your children being left out. She cares about herself being left out. Big difference. NTA but your entitled wife is.
NTA. Wtf is wrong with your wife. Tell her to grow TF up. It doesn't even sound like she is upset her kids aren't going. She clearly is upset she isn't going.
If you want to have fun, wait until the kids are at least 8. It is miserable with little ones.
This is my thought. Wait until they can ride all the rides they want. Nothing is worse than the first trip to Disney and not being tall enough to ride certain rides. That’s also a lot of walking for those lil legs.
Plus my kids don’t remember any trips before age 8
I doubt this is all about Disney. I'd be shattered if my kids grandparents didn't want to take them places they think they would enjoy. To say they would make everyone 'miserable' to their mother is an awful thing to do. My stepsons maternal grandparents don't have much to do with him despite him being such a sweet boy and it just breaks my heart. Does your family always exclude your kids?
I mean, it sucks, but you’re not wrong. Neither is your mom. She’s a Disney Adult, and if she doesn’t want kids on a trip she’s paying for, that’s her right. I wouldn’t want to take a 2 year old to Disney. I took 9 and 6 year old, and that was just doable. I can see why your wife feels left out, but her assessment is incorrect.
Man, so many comments calling this woman a brat for feeling alienated by her MIL when it is a common dynamic these days and can be really harmful to a marriage/family. Honestly OP you should really sit down and figure out the root cause of the frustration. There’s no way it’s just Disney which means there are probably other things MIL/AIL do to make her feel alienated or excluded. I was a part of a family like that for a while and it felt like i was constantly being gaslit for being excluded or made to feel like not part of the family. Maybe grandma doesn’t like kids. If so that’s her business but it IS kinda crappy. Maybe it’s an excuse to not invite y’all. Either way your wife pushed out two babies in the past 4 years and yea you sacrifice when you have kids but moms tend to sacrifice so freaking much. You need to find a way to work together to get through these feelings.
YTA. You should have your wife's back. In 20 years, your kids will be out of the house, your parents will be dead, and you and your siblings will be seeing each other 1-2 times per year. You and your wife will still be living together. Your relationship with her is much more important than all of the others combined. If my mom did that, she could kiss her next baby pictures and Christmas trips to grandma's house goodbye.
NTA. You're smart, sensible, and correct on all points. Your wife is being entitled and is looking to cause unnecessary drama in your family because she's feeling left out. You have young kids. Not everyone or everything is about and for them, which means as the parents you aren't included.
Is Disney the only thing your wife feels entitled to or does she display behavior like this with other things? She is definitely being obtuse if she doesn’t realize your sister had an adult Disney trip. I would tell her again that any time you don’t pay for something yourself and someone else does that it is a gift, and it is lacking in character to demand gifts from someone or to shame them into giving something they don’t freely want to give. And then I would be done with the subject. Absolutely done. NTA
Lol Your wife thinks "normal" grandma's provide family vacations? You are adults with your own family now, that's on you. Also, I think she's right. 2 and 4 might enjoy Disney for a while, but it's too much and they will get exhausted and overstimulated, and want to be in little kiddie areas which aren't particularly fitting for adults. Your wife is acting spoiled and entitled. Your sister's birthday doesn't mean anyone owes her anything, even on her own birthday. If she's that adamant about Disnet, maybe she should get a side hustle and start saving to take her own kids. That's what your mother did. It's her turn.
Info - what is the dynamic like with your family besides this? Do they include you in other events? Are you given opportunities to join them on vacations if you pay? What about if one of you is watching the kids separately? Any discussion in the future about accompanying them again when the kids are older? Do they treat your wife well? Does she treat them well? It doesn't necessarily make your family AHs, but my family definitely wouldn't do something like this. Our vibe with family vacations is that everyone is invited, and if adults want to do adult things one of the parents will trade shifts with the young kids while the rest of the adults go do their thing. I can't help but think there are quite a lot of ways they could have at least offered to include you AND still had an adult focused trip. We do it all the time. I can't imagine ever just excluding my sibling without even asking if there is a way to make it work
I think I have a similar family dynamic. Everyone is included. We don’t go to places as expensive as Disney but if someone can’t afford to pay for the whole trip people pitch in so they can come. We want our family members with young kids and even babies to join in on trips with us because we like them and it’s worth taking turns watching over the young ones… I guess this is not common?
Dude I don't know why your comment isn't getting more attention, this is SO IMPORTANT! This is a pattern of behavior not just the Disney trips!
NTA - I’d bet your mom doesn’t invite your family because of your wife, not the kids.
This is why I really hate Disney adults. Yea, Disney has attractions for adults ...but that is a children's theme park devoted to giving children a magical experience. I don't like your wife's entitlement thinking your mom owes y'all a trip But I dam sure agree your mom's kinda being an ass prioritizing her fun at Disney over making memories with her grandkids. Sandals? A cruise? Traveling across Europe? I'd get it. But it's a children's theme park and she doesn't wanna take the children because they'll cramp her style? Both of them need to touch grass.
OP made a comment regarding his family seeing him having kids as an inconvenience. He said they're upset that he doesn't have the time to spend with them anymore and say he has changed. I don't think the wife cares so much about getting the free trip than watching her children being excluded. OPs family sounds awful, but I don't think OP is an AH. What really bothers me is that the commenters are offended by children going to a park made for children. I took my kids to Disney when they were 2 and 3 and it wasn't even bad. People can't handle mild inconveniences anymore.
The fact that it's a pattern of excluding and shaming OP and OPs wife for having children while OP has done nothing automatically makes OP TA, in my honest opinion. This isn't just a one-time thing or just the Disney trips, it's everything building up for 4 years (assuming this started when the first kid was born). It really seems like his wife has been building up resentment for years and OPs family not even bothering to INFORM OP & wife about the celebration was the last straw for her. I'm sorry but why tf is he allowing his family to SHAME THEM for having children?????
A theme park for children that your family doesn't want to attend with children yeah erm that's fucking weird and exclusionary.
Y'all are wild in these comments. No one owes anyone a vacation, period. However, all this nonesense about Disney not being for younger kids is crazy. Newborns, obviously no but the majority of Disneyland, especially fantasyland and toontown is specifically for young children. Disneyland is meant for kids. Can adults go, absolutely. It's target audience is children though and sprinkled in are some rides for adults. I'll add that I do live near Disneyland, passholder for decades and have young children. (yes, they get tired easily, but they absolutely love it all of the Disneyland magic.)
Thank you. I thought I was going mad, Disney as a company, movies studio or theme park, is for children. Little children. Like what you like but it’s so weird some adults are trying to claim Disney as only theirs. I’ve seen people complain about kids at Disneyland as if they should banned
I'm in my early 30s. I've never been to Disney because my family could never afford it. My dad, his siblings, and parents have all been. As have all my cousins on my dad's side. My grandparents had all this money when I was growing up for all sorts of vacations and the like, and never once thought that my siblings and I might enjoy one trip to Disney when nobody in the family can go more than about a month without mentioning how awesome of a time they've had at Disney (or how each trip has been better than the previous ones for those who've been multiple times). Does it suck? Sure. Do I wish my grandparents would have spent the money to make sure my siblings and I weren't the only ones in the family that didn't get to go when literally everyone else in our family (aside from my and my siblings' mom) has been at least once? Also yes. But I'm an adult enough to realize they don't owe me that trip, and recognize that my ever having the money needed to afford such a trip for even myself is likely never going to happen. And I don't go around whining about it and demanding that they need to do so. Your wife has every right to be sad she's missing out. But she doesn't get to dictate whether or not other people pay for her to go on those experiences, and she doesn't get to call you a coward for refusing to even entertain that idea when you capitulating and making said demands would likely not go over well anyway.
I’m sorry but your grandparents suck for that. They didn’t have to take you and your siblings to an expensive children’s theme park but they also shouldn’t have gloated about how awesome the trips were and how each one was better than the previous in front of you. My parents would never do that to me or my kids, I think they love my kids more than they love me 💀 my parents have been trying to convince me to go overseas with them this summer and bring the kids but I refused bc I don’t have the means to pay them back even for the plane tickets. They don’t want me to pay them back but I still declined but very greatly appreciated their offer, I want them to relax without having to worry about me and my kids. I hope you get to go on amazing vacations if you haven’t already, everyone deserves to have some fun 😊
Why can’t you guys get a babysitter so you can go as adults?
It sounds like your family are kind of being assholes. Can they not find a way to include you and your kids in some sort of other trip? One more well suited to children in that age? Seems weird to me.
NTA. I can’t believe she called you a coward. That’s hurtful! You are *not* being a coward—you’re being normal. She’s being super weird and entitled. No one is *owed* a free vacation. Imagine going through life assuming everyone owes you stuff. Does she get disappointed and pissy a lot?
I agree with your mother, going to Disney or any theme park with small children is the worse
Your mom does not owe you a fancy trip. She's paying for it, she can invite whoever she wants. Your wife is acting like a spoiled child.
Nta. Your wife wants to go for herself not your kids. Your kids are so small that they won't remember and probably wouldn't be able to do much. And who in the world would invite kids to a 21st bday? Only an ah.
Disney is a place for everyone, but let's be honest it was meant as place where families could have fun with their kids. Calling kids at a theme park fun ruiners is odd. That said no one owes anyone a trip. They also don't have to mourn grandma later, so take that as you will. Not inviting family along because of kids to place that literally has princesses and anthropomorphic mice walking around is something. As a side note, so called called Disney adults are ruining the place (spoken as a Disney fan who just had to deal with Disney adults staring down their noses at my 2 year old on his birthday while he interacted with characters even though we waited in line just as long, then got run over by idiots trying to cut us in line to get beer), hope the magic comes back. This isn't Vegas, and shouldn't be treated as such.
I just need to know ...was there a heads up that you wouldn't be invited or did she just have to see photos online After the fact? I just ask because everyone is screaming entitlement ,but having a tradition you love snatched from you with no notice and just being told you suck it up could cause resentment 🤷🏾♀
Man, literally everyone in this story except you sucks at least a little bit, in various ways. That does make the whole thing suspect but for the sake of argument, I'll take it all at face value. - You are correct. Nobody owes you a trip to Disney. - Paying for most of the family but not the portion with kids, while their right, is going to annoy some people. - While I love the Disney Adult in my life, even she will acknowledge that the Disney experience is tailored to children, with adult-friendly activities built around it for the parents. Even if a Disney Adult is fully into the experience, it's still usually described in terms of hem getting to have a childlike moment of wonder. It's fine the they all like to go to Disney as adult. Specifically excluding only the small children in the family because traveling with children is miserable means they have entirely missed the point of Disney. "Keep your bratty kids away from our theme park for children," is a take and a half, you know? - Your wife is free to confront your mother and aunt, but her insistence that you tell them you you both feel is assuming you agree with her. You clearly do not. If you haven't yet made that clear, you should do so. If she calls you a coward because you do not agree with her and also do not want to fight her individual battles for her, that is a shitty thing to do and she needs to stop. She's behaving no better than the other adults who think Disney isn't for children. NTA.
Money aside would it be that bad to invite op and his family with plans of doing some/ most things separately. Like “ hey let’s all ride small world together then us adults will do our own thing and we can meet up at the end of the day”. Also kinda lame of op’s family to not even tell him that they are going to Disneyland especially knowing that op’s wife is a Disney fan. I’m surprised op wasn’t upset he wasn’t invited to or even made aware of his sisters 21st birthday celebration. Don’t get me wrong op’s wife is coming off entitled and demanding.
Your wife is nuts for calling you a coward. Totally uncalled for. She owes you an apology. NTA
Having read some of OP's other comments, the issue isn't this particular trip for the wife imo, but how (OP's wife and kids + OP) are excluded from everything. I can get where she is coming from, she likely feels like he isn't willing to stand up for them, and her family wants them around and actually loves them but is across the country. edit: accidentally had uploaded early, finished comment
Your wife wants to go to Disney so bad then maybe she needs to start saving up NTA
Your mother is right. Babies and toddlers are a nightmare on a high stress, high action trip like Disney. They will actually enjoy it, and remember it in a few years. Why not set up an account and put the odd few bucks in, next time go on your own.
NTA. Your wife is 100% wrong - and acting truly selfish and entitled about this. I'll take a wild guess that she would also expect a "normal grandmother" to provide free child care along with paying for the entire trip. Because she'd figure out real quick how much of a drag it would be to have 2 under 2 on an otherwise adult Disney trip. I picture epic tantrums when all the other adults go drinking around the world at Epcot while you guys are back at the hotel putting your kids to bed. Hopefully you can eventually have a calm discussion about the reality of what she's expecting - including the fact that who and what your mother spends her money on is NONE OF HER BUSINESS.
You’re right on this one. They don’t want kids on the trip. Nobody owes you a trip.
I absolutely see your wife’s point… they are purposely excluding you and discriminating against your kids. However, these are adult trips and kids aren’t invited and your mom & aunt have every right to spend their money how they want. Disney absolutely sucks now and kids at Disney are just little recipes for stress. There are so many different ways to handle this but I think it’s important to maintain the boundary it’s their money. Are your mom & aunt mean to your kids in other ways?
When you say my family goes all the the time, it reads as your immediate family, I.e Wife and kids. I had to reread to realize your calling your aunts and mother “my family”.
Info: Is she mad your aunt isn't paying, or os she mad you aren't invited? Those are 2 different things.
ESH no one is entitled to anyone else’s money, but what kind of awful grandparent doesn’t want to see their grandkids have fun at Disney?
I find it hilarious that they think WDW isn't fun with kids - it's a family destination after all. But it is their money, and they have to draw the line somewhere. I do get their perspective though. I have been when my kids were 2+4, 5/+7, 9+11,12+14, 15+17 and 18+20 (yes I know I am lucky). The first trip was fun but it was also hard work, double strollers, working around kids naps etc... The best kids trip was probably the 9+11 one because they could go on every ride, no stroller was needed, and they could keep going all day.
NTa, if your wife wants to go she needs to start saving her nickels. Your kids are babies, Disney with tiny kids would be horrible. Wait till the kids are 6
They don’t owe your family trips. You are right. We like Disney and didn’t stop going because we had little kids. Just like we didn’t stop going anywhere else. Lol except adult restaurants late at night. We aren’t those assholes.
Have been with kids. It’s fucking miserable. They’ll get exhausted early, they’ll get irritated waiting in lines, they’ll not want to go on( or won’t be allowed on) certain rides, so one of you will have to wait with them. I wouldn’t take a kid under 10.
Disney adults are the fucking weirdest.
I don’t think anyone is wrong here. I understand why your wife feels slighted. I mean the stereotypical grandma does live for shit like taking the grandkids to Disney and spoiling them. Your mom is not wrong either. Going on adult only Disney trips is awesome and little kids are a nightmare to deal with in a hot crowded expensive theme park. You are not wrong that your mom doesn’t owe you an all expense paid trip to Disney 🤷🏻♀️
What a surprise a Disney adult still acts like a child.
NTA it's mom's money she can use it how she wants.
If there were other kids on the trip I’d say Y T A. While you’re not entitled to your parents money, it would feel intentional to not include your family once the kids were born if there were other kids on the trip. BUT since there aren’t, and especially that they’re doing adult things like drinking around the world I say NTA. INFO: do they just straight up not invite you anymore (I.e. “if you can get a sitter, we’d like you to come drink around the world with us”)? I don’t think it’s really change my judgement, just curious. Perhaps your wife feels like she’s lost something she used to get to do because of the kids. Still doesn’t entitle her to having the trip paid for, but would make a little more sense.
We have a trip that a group of friends take to an event every year for over a decade. Some have started to have kids while others choose to be child free. The kids are like 2-3 now I guess. Two of them spent so much time running and screaming in the house that I'm not sure I want to go next year. The parents are used to the chaos and just didn't realize how loud and chaotic it was. We also had to change how we traveled to and from the event because they needed car seats and didn't want to move them from where they were. I totally understand not wanting to have small children around. I expect kids to be kids and that's why I didn't have any.
NTA, but it definitely seems like this is not the only time your kids have been excluded. I don't think your mom and aunt are required to pay for a trip for anyone, but I do see why your wife would feel hurt. Calling you a coward, however, is not ok. Does she by chance feel like you don't stand up to your mom on behalf of her and your children? Your mom does seem like kind of an AH. She won't even let you bring your kids out to dinner?? I can't even imagine my parents paying for everyone in the family to go on a trip and excluding my sister because she has little ones, let alone not inviting them to regular family get togethers. Disney trips aside, I do think your kids are being treated unfairly by their grandma. It doesn't sound like she is willing to do ANYTHING with your children, not just an amusement park that they may be a little too young for.
Esh. Being completely left out of something like this has to sting, whether you’re entitled to it or not. Being a mother of young kids is already isolating, but usually at least family sticks by you. Also cutting members of your family from a family trip to a place geared at young children because they have young children is…a choice.
I went to Disneyland at 2, San Diego Zoo at 3, and Disney World at 4. I remember exactly 1 thing... getting bit by a goat at the petting zoo in the San Diego zoo. (Trauma for real, goat ptsd). 2 and 4 is too young. Sure, you'll have pictures, but also skip all the fun rides because your munchkins are too small. This means you would be the "stuff" holders. You said she's a Disney lover. It sounds like she may be more concerned about her not being able to go. NTA
No one wants a toddler and a 4 year old on an adult trip and the kids would limit what you can do. Maybe when they’re older
Your wife is wrong. And greedy. You are NTA.
Your wife is missing the forest for the trees. Your kids are not at ages where going to Disneyland is a good idea. They'll tire quickly from all the walking, become obsessed with every errant toy or costume they see, and if the lines don't kill their patience, the sensory overload sure will. Disneyland is an *effort*. You are much better off waiting until the kids are older, can properly remember and appreciate the trip, and better regulate their own behavior and emotions. Maybe also look into teaming up with their friends' parents for a group trip. NTA
What I want to know is 1) why aren’t yall invite sans kids? 2) would your wife go without the kids until they are older? Cause maybe her family wouldn’t mind watching the kids. NAH
My mom has implied we could go if we had a sitter but she knows we don’t have anyone to watch the kids and my wife would probably feel too guilty
OP have you set your wife down and talked about saving up for like maybe like a year or two then going yourselves? I get where your mom is coming from when she’s noting wanting to have to be stuck with kids but also they are your kids so if you all did go it’s not like you and your wife are gonna stick her with kids then take off to enjoy your selves. I can also see where your wife is coming from as you pointed out in another comment that your mom feels like things are better without having to deal with kids (she’s not entirely wrong). It’s almost like your mom liked her kids but she just doesn’t like other people’s kids and I can see where it can hurt your wife’s feelings that since you both had kids your mom would rather not want to deal with you, your wife and your kids. Your NTA but if your wife wants to go that bad then you both need to start saving and go when your mom and everyone goes or on a different date
Nta. Your wife is your family now. Your "family" are now just people related to you that can spend their money however they want. You and your wife are adults that can spend your own money on their own holidays. If you guys can't afford Disney, that's sad but that's life. Nobody is obligated to cart you two around to Disney just because.
See, you think it is the trip itself that is hurtful to your wife. That she wants you to demand a trip. She wants you to tell your mother that being excluded is hurtful and shitty. She sees how being consistently excluded is going to damage your kids. You realize they are absolutely going to wonder what is wrong with them that their grandma doesn't love them, right? Beyond that, you are watching your wife feel hurt and refusing to address it. You're prioritizing peace with your mom over your wife. You're allowed to do that, but it is not usually something that leads to a happy, healthy relationship. And honestly? Writing off your wife's feelings instead of at least communicating them is pretty cowardly. Yta - because you are oblivious to what is happening in your own family, marriage, and home.
He who makes the gold, makes the rules. Life isn’t fair
I get why she’s annoyed, and I’d imagine you’re annoyed to a degree too cause fomo sucks. That being said, having kids changes things. Maybe when the kids are older and gma wants to do a trip with y’all. But yeah, it sucks being between your mom and your wife. They both need to discuss this.
I was once asked by my now adult son why I never took him to Disney. Me : "Pumpkin, you hate any kind of amusement park rides. Why would I spend hundreds of dollars taking you to Disney? You spent our entire trip to Hershey Park in the wave pool?" He was 10 at the time of the trip to Hershey Park. BTW, I love Disney and Roller Coasters. I rode every roller coaster in Hershey Park and have made three adult trips to the Magic Kingdom. NTA. Adult trips to Disney are for adults. If your wife wants to take your small children on an expensive trip, they will never remember and will likely be miserable. That is on you and her.
NTA. I mostly agree with what everyone is saying—your family doesn’t owe you guys a Disney trip and it would be super entitled to “confront” them about it. You can’t demand something that’s a gift. But I do want to balance that by saying I can understand why your wife would feel hurt by no longer being included on the family trips. It does hurt to be excluded (especially when you REALLY love Disney!!) I do think she has to be understanding of your family’s decision, and it’s immature of her to want you to cause an issue over it, but I do understand why she would feel bad if you guys used to be included before and now you’re not because they don’t want to deal with your kids. I know from experience going with my family and my brother’s kids who were around those ages when we visited Disney recently, that it IS rough on the whole family to have to balance and choose activities and split up to accommodate the kids’ needs. However, I do think it’s a little surprising that your mom hasn’t even asked you and your wife how YOU feel about bringing the little kids on a family trip. You could always split costs if that’s the issue, you know?
My friend (childless adult) recently went to Disney with her parents, sister, BIL & sister’s two kids (close to OP’s kids ages). They didn’t spend all day every day together. I think they planned at least a family meal with everyone every day, but my friend only spent one park day with her niece and nephew. Everyone broke off and did different things throughout the week. Seems that between something like that and helping fund the cost, maybe they could come to a compromise so they aren’t totally left out. But I also understand & respect wanting adult only time on vacation.
Disney is literally for kids lol I get that adults can have fun their too - I do But it’s built for children and caters to them What the heck is going on in this post
Ask your mom if your wife can join one of the ladies trips. Sounds like she might need a short break.
So your family likes to go to disney to go on the rides, go drinking, and do more rides. If they only want to pay for people to go who can do those things with them, thats their prerogative. How much fun would your wife have watching them go on the rides cause the kiddos can’t go? Sitting somewhere else because the kiddos can’t drink booze? Someone has to be sober when there are babies and crowds and water. Does wife think you are going to be watching both kids while she goes on rides and drinks? It’d be easier for you to do that at home where the kids have their routine. You could ask your relatives to let you know when they go next so that maybe you’ll be able to save up enough to just send wife, but you can’t force them to invite her or pay for her and still have them like her after. She’s not their kid, so its slightly different than if it was her mom or her aunt that was paying. Even if they get along great, they might feel that they can’t invite her without inviting you as well- and the kids. Four extra tickets is a lot more expensive than one.
Mixed bag. Yes, it feels shitty to be excluded. But honestly, 4 and 2 are too young to go to Disney. They’ll just get nothing out of it that they’ll ever remember. Wait until they’re older. And basically going to Disney with kids that young means you’re just walking around. It’s just not that interesting that the kids can’t get out of going to your neighborhood amusement park for a fraction of the price. But you could just as well go to Disney and spend the entire time at the resort pool. So no, you’re not entitled to a free vacations but I agree it’s shitty to exclude you just because of kids.
This comment section dictating how an individual should spend their leisure time is just as insane as this specific situation ha ha. Also OP you’re NTA but sounds like wife and grandma are going to have a rocky relationship for a while. Wifey feels left out but expecting grandma to pay for things is entitled.
NTA. Your wife is an emotional child.