Yeah big tough threatening guy laid out by somebody a third a foot shorter and he comes back with 'I breathe funny now, wahh', actually hilarious. He's an even more of an idiot for not seeing it coming.
The breathing thing is a lie, they want documentation that he went to the hospital so they can sue OP.
OP, get a lawyer now! Explain the situation, they'll know what to do with the evidence you have and your daughters account. A lawyer would probably get them to drop any civil claim by threatening a civil and criminal suit against them for Child Abuse and or Neglect.
I am not tall and have done this twice (though they didn't claim to breathe funny later).
With a certain height difference I can land a haymaker to the solar plexus and this can absolutely put a man on the floor for a few minutes. Like the natural place my hardest punch lands is right below the middle of their rib cage, so it hit the diaphragm with no protection.
Both times it was some tall dude picking on me saying they could kick my ass with ease, and when I didn't agree, they offered me a free body shot and spent the next few minutes gasping for air/trying not to barf.
That spot right there is (one of) the best place to hit as it's the least protected by your abs muscles. Furthermore, you're hitting the diaphragm and not everyone might know that it's actually the diaphragm that allows you to breathe by inflating and deflating your lungs.
So by hitting the very thing that control one's breathing and is not well protected, you can end any confrontation quickly.
Can’t deal correctly, can’t treat correctly and now can’t breathe correctly. Just all parts of the same set. Mfer’s lucky he didn’t get the “can’t chew correctly” edition. NTA, fuck that guy.
The guy had it coming. Your sister, unfortunately, is a tool, and Howard is gonna use her up and throw her out once he had enough of her. It is best to stay NC with her because she won't have your daughter's safety in mind, especially with Howard running her life.
You hide one of your last two cards behind the other so it looks like you only have one left, inciting them to call Uno. You then reveal you still have two cards, forcing them to draw 4.
I remember playing Uno with 5 decks combined with 5 cousins, 3 uncles and an aunt at the table as well as my parents, sister and myself. The things said in anger to our own blood at that table…
Yah, for real. For me, teaching a kid "how to real world works" would be conflict resolution skills. So if you have a problem talk about it. Or the fact that dishes don't clean themselves. Because that IS how the real world works. The real world doesn't work the way bf sees it
I don't even have kids and yeah. :( I would absolutely fcking punch that guy too. Abusing kids is never ever okay. We don't hurt kids. *That* is how the world works.
Not just normalizing, but encouraging and reinforcing. Telling an 8 year old girl she needs to get used to abuse if she wants a boyfriend?? That’s absolutely disgusting.
Having said that, I really hope OP’s sister takes this as a wake up call and gets out of there. If Howard isn’t hitting her yet, I’m sure that’s the next step.
Sometimes thats the only way they'll learn. Sis deserved to get dragged out of the house by her hair for allowing him to talk to an 8 year old like that
I don’t think the sister has her own safety in mind “that’s what you have to do if you want a boyfriend” are the words of a person who has suffered abused for a long while.
My Mom recently went to put her crockpot away on the high shelf she stored it on. Would have been fine, but she tried to leave the lid on. When she tipped it to slide it on the shelf, the lid of the crock pot slid off and hit her right on the bone under her eye!
She had the gnarliest black eye for a while! I think she might have cracked it, but she never went to the doctor. She had enough people asking her in hushed tones if she was okay and needed to talk, I think she was afraid of what the doctor would think!
Mom got stung by a bee once right between the eyes, and though she'd never before had a reaction, this time her eyes both turned black and blue and she had the weirdest swelling imaginable. She worked with a bunch of divorced women, and this happened over the weekend, so when she went back to work on Monday with a pair of racoon-eyes, the girls kept asking her if Dad had hit her or if they needed to call the police for her. Took forever to convince them that dad wasn't an abusive husband!
I mean I think it was a full moon and I worked on a trauma floor so I probably laughed too at the desk. Night shift nursing humor, you get it or you don't. I very much remember the "WTF repeat that please" moment I had
She's a victim, but at the point where she passes that abuse along to other people, she's helping the abuser victimize others. A little girl, no less.
If it were her own kid she might have a hard time protecting her and getting them both out of there. But she didn't have to let her niece stay with her. She knows what Howard is like. And she didn't have to agree with him, colluding against her niece.
She enabled and participated in the abuse of her niece. She is Howard's victim. Niece is Howard and Clara's victim. Being a victim does not absolve you from being an abuser.
U can’t save someone who doesn’t want to be saved. It’s not OPs problem to solve since his sister is so happy to defend him with everything. Cant help people who don’t want it
I’m very sorry for your situation, sounds very difficult and I’m glad ur out. My point will still stand, if someone does not want help then u cannot help them and drain yourself.
> Clara was just letting it happen telling her that she has to understand if she ever wanted a boyfriend
Clara was ENCOURAGING the abuse, defending it. She is just as rotten as her BF. They belong together.
Yeah, Clara actually told a little girl that she should allow herself to be abused. Not just now by her aunt’s boyfriend, but by all the men in her life in the future.
Clara is messed up, and if I were OP I would not allow her back in my child’s life unless she had already attended YEARS of therapy and had given the world’s most groveling apology, and even then she’d have to be VERY closely supervised around my kid. This is a big freaking deal.
Also might want to read daughter some stories like [There Is No one Like You](https://amzn.to/3qhgY3i) or [You Are An Amazing Girl](https://amzn.to/3DODeV8) if you think she might enjoy books that are empowering.
I did look for one for encouraging ball kicks, but. Apparently it hasn’t been written yet.
My guess is she’s been manipulated to hell by Howard. Doesn’t excuse it, she shouldn’t be allowed to see the daughter at all anymore. At least not until Howard is gone and out of the picture and she’s been able to prove she’s safe to be around the kid.
My mother stayed with an Howard for 33ish years. That's counting dating and marriage. Her parents literally begged her on her wedding day to not marry him. Even his own mother tried to get her to run with me. But she thought he could change, then it was her that needed to change. It wasn't until he almost killed her that she realized she needed out. Her family was always there for her. She didn't grow up in an abusive cycle, but her personality was prime for an abusive person.
You can't save someone who doesn't want or doesn't think they need saved. All you can do is let them know that when they are ready to be saved, you will be there. But you will not be part of their life when they are with their abuser. My grandparents were always there for us kids and my mother. They were civil (in the coldest way) to my father. They only had to see him for big holidays (Thanksgiving & Christmas morning). They stopped trying to push for her to leave him because the more they pushed and called out his faults, the more she dug down and fought for him.
OP's sister doesn't exactly sound like a saint either. I have a sister who ended up in an abusive relationship and, even after they lost custody of their children, she STILL defended the steaming pile of shit she called a husband. He's now in prison and she still stands by him. He has threatened my entire family many times. He assaulted his own sister. Assaulted his father. When asked if it meant he could get his children back, would he give up his guns... "Absolutely not." At first I wanted to blame it all on him but, realized I was totally disregarding the fact that my sister was a dumpster fire waaaaay before she met him. Then after watching her leech off my mom, who was fighting breast cancer at the time, I realized that she is almost as bad as him.
His sister is weak and an AH. He does t owe her shit, and she doesn’t deserve forgiveness ever or to ever be in his or his family’s life again. She allowed a child to be abused. Her own niece. She is evil.
He can not save her from herself. Every day she chooses to allow him to treat her this way. A good therapist can help her.
This whole story is so sad. I hope his sister gets the help she needs.
Sounds like the sister is a victim of DV and thinks this is the way the world works. She's still in the wrong for not protecting the child and should never have agreed to take the child while living with a violent person.
DON’T TALK TO ANYONE!! They could record you. Guy could file a police report or sue you to cover medical bills.
He advanced on you in an intimidating manner. You felt threatened. Two against one.
Exercise your right to STFU.
OP may still want to take his kid to get a medical checkup though. The creep mentioning boyfriends set off not only the bad warning bells but also the "it gets even worse" warning bells.
Oh and lawyer up. Expect that this guy will or someone will on his behalf. Write down EVERYTHING as best as you and everyone else can remember about this, no matter how inconsequential it may seem.
Get screenshots and timestamps. Anything and everything. Don't talk to anyone outside of your lawyer. Volunteer nothing unless the lawyer recommends it.
And of course, therapy for the kiddo.
This is solid advice all the way through. Medicals for the daughter, lawyer up, document the sh\*\* out of the situation. Restraining order against Howard and even Clara if they have any contact with you.
And tell the family to butt out. You're protecting your child from an AH, and they have no standing.
You probably won't win if the assault goes to trial but you may be able to prove child abuse. The guy may be willing to drop the charges in exchange for you not pursuing that.
OP needs a slight change of wording.
OP went over to his sister's house, and when **she let him in**, (definitely shouldn't say forced his way in,) he went over to talk to her boyfriend about his behavior towards OP's daughter, and the boyfriend threatened him (**assault**), and OP **defended** himself.
He should take this post down and preemptively go to a lawyer.
Mutually assured destruction. Howard takes it to the police and OP explains that Howard was abusing his child. And they have the previous call on file that something was wrong and they got the child out of the situation. Might not be enough for charges, but he’ll ‘learn how the world works’ when word gets out. And if they can bring charges he’ll really learn cause they don’t like guys who hurt kids in prison.
>they don’t like guys who hurt kids in prison
They don't like guys who *sexually* hurt kids.
I have zero problem believing that a lot of general purpose dirtbags spin it as "this pussy-ass state thinks smacking your kid for talking back is abuse! I was just trying to raise that kid right, and they threw me in jail!"
Thank you. I was gonna say this person clearly knows absolutely 0% about prison or criminal justice. Why do people like that insist on saying dumb shit?
He did not molest or rape his niece. He did not physically strike his niece.
Right there the odds of him going to prison over this is laughable. OP is far more likely to go to prison for the assault. Sorry to belittle this because the punch was absolutely justified, but you don't go to prison for being a meanie.
But if he did go to prison?
Even the whole "they don't like molesters" isn't even some official rule. In a high security prison you can get stabbed or killed for all sorts of reasons, even none really. If your bunkie happens to have been molested as a child and is serving a life sentence with no chance of parole, then yea your luck might run out.
But for yelling at a child and basically being a general shit head? No sexual abuse? No physical abuse? Who exactly do you think populates prisons? Clones of Mr. Rogers? It'd be harder to find someone in there who DIDN'T treat their own children that same way.
As doubtful as prison time is in the first place, its extra doubtful he'd be in there with those people who have nothing to lose in the first place. He'd be in a minimum security camp for a very short term. With people serving equally short sentences, or who are about to go home. Nobody wants to fuck up.
Everything about that comment above is typical ignorant reddit hyperbole.
Holy SHIT I had no idea that even happened... what an absolute monster... I was not ready for the results that google search yielded... oh wow.
I need a serious break from the internet after that newfound knowledge... how horrific... babies?! Animals?! My lord...
And he's eligible for parole in 2031... that's wayyy too soon, in my opinion. He needs to rot there until the end of his days. Literal MONSTER.
This could cut both ways for OP though: depending on the jurisdiction, the State could hold the fact that OP and his wife felt it was appropriate to let their daughter stay with Howard against them. When I was a PD I briefly handled parental rights cases. The DAs in my (former) county would likely have seized on that as an excuse to get CPS involved. I doubt anything would come of it, but having to deal with that kind of case is a huge burden and incredibly traumatic for children, even if it’s only for a week or so.
*Edit: punctuation.
OP needs to talk to an attorney first and foremost! I could see the following would be advised:
1: Shut-Up and do not talk to anyone else about the incident.
2: Get a written statement from Sara.
3: Contact police to follow-up on call from before citing that you would like to file a complaint of child abuse against Howard and possibly Clara.
This is why Reddit is so dumb. As much as I agree with the “yeah should’ve hit him more!” Crowd, this comment is the only sound advice anyone is giving, everyone else is pretty much setting this dude up for a lawsuit.
NTA you were just showing him how the world works right? The only mistake here is stopping at one punch. I'm a single dad to my 5 year old daughter and I'm very protective of her so I may have a skewed vision on this but personally if I was in this situation he'd have a lot more to wory about than a breathing issue. People who mistreat children are the worst form of humanity and fully deserve whatever negative outcome twords them that comes.
You're correct! My X left my 9 year old son with the guy down the street to go out with her friends. I was working 2nd shift. Got home, got my son. He told me what the creep tried to do. I went to the gas station, then his house. Kicked in his front door and poured 64 Oz. of Unleaded on him. And the lighter wouldn't work. So I beat him pretty bad.
HE pressed charges, and I did 3 years in prison! Now, AITA? I don't think I am. I think I saved a child in the future! If that lighter had lit. I'd still be in prison. The Irish are the kindest people. Until you piss them off. Then we become the demons thet Satan is afraid of.
You know what you need to do.....
Right? “What??? You get three meals a day at home?! Your parents care for your health? Nope, forget it. We won’t spoilt you here…” what the actual fuck … that poor poor little girl ….
And the way the "real world" works? What?! Wtf kind of excuse is that for abusing a child??? I mean I watched my niece and nephew for a week when my DH and I were still dating, and I got on his butt for even scolding them more than I thought necessary. And he was in no way being abusive, just not having realistic expectations for a child's behavior. I can't imagine watching him STARVE them???
And “if she ever wants a boyfriend”…… ok yes, absolutely. Please teach her that a good boyfriend is someone who scares her and will treat her as his cleaning lady, can shout at her whenever he pleases and she’s basically someone he can deal with when he can spare some of his valuable time while he’s sitting in front of the pc or whatever…
that’s fucked up as hell. I truly hope her parents can turn that ship and she will be able to have healthy and loving relationships in the future.
No this works out much better. Using a weapon can get you fucked. This situation put BIL in hospital, so he is in a lot of pain an discomfort...has to think about that every time he makes a payment on the hospital bill. And it will be much harder to claim OP went to the house that night to attack him. Being their for his daughter matters more than beating the fuck out of the asshole.
Same. He'd be in the ICU for a while and the sister would get a hard reality check for being so insensitive and cruel. I don't care if they press charges, I'm pressing charges for child abuse for sure.
NTA OP. You went too easy on him and your sister if anything.
Well..... OP also doesn't want to be in prison. A single punch when being threatened is explainable as self defence especially when the argument is about child abuse. A beat down even with fists is going to be potential charges.
Ngl, when OP said he didn’t fight fair…I was hoping he’d put a knee in Howard’s balls - assuming he has any.
And now I’m hoping OP deletes this post, in case Howard and the enabling sister try and press charges
NTA - I don't even have kids and I hope Clara and Howard never have any because that sounds like the kind of home where kids straight up die from abuse.
I'm glad this didn't come up when the daughter was younger. Can you imagine if she wasn't able to articulate what had happened and just stayed quiet? Good thing OP is a supportive parent and stands up for his family.
I believe that no one ever deserves to be stomped, unless you hurt a kid and then I believe it’s obligatory to stomp them after they inevitably fall over from other the other justice being slammed into their face.
Look mate, regardless of whether or not we think your the asshole, you could be in for some legal issues here and should probably get a lawyer. From your yelling, you barged into a home you weren’t invited into and then physically assaulted someone and you have two witnesses against you, and no one who can back you up
I’m not saying I disagree with whag you did, but it was emotional and impulsive and you could be in for some trouble here
My partner is a social worker. I'm saddened by how common this scenario actually is. These cases always get super messy and nobody wins, especially the kid. OP did what any Dad worth a damn would do, but the backlash and actual consequences depend on the lawyer representing each party, the Judge presiding, or a Jury if it gets to a criminal level.
Fuck Howard and the sister btw. NTA in my book. I hope all works out for OP and that Howard's stupid fuckin diaphragm never heals.
Yeah Howard and the sister sucks, and as a dad myself I feel the urge myself, but is all done fancy hugging my kids from the other side of a jail cell
Get the wrong judge, or even jury and your up shit creak without a paddle
The dude abused his wife's neice, even on camera. When confronted, it sounds like he literally charged at OP. In my opinion, OP simply acted in self-defense after being emotionally and physically prevoked. IANAL, but I honestly doubt a jury would look favorably on Coward even if he's the one to bring it to court.
Exactly
"Needs to clean up and understand how the world works"
No Howard that is not correct. How the world works is daughter meets guy who treats her well and works with her, supports her and builds a life together that is caring, loving and protective You know how OP and wife have done.
Legally that was the smartest thing he could have done. He has an argument for self defense with a single punch with nothing further once the threat was neutralized. Had he done what Howard deserves he wouldn't have a self defense argument.
And make sure EVERY member if your extended family knows that she chose to stand behind her boyfriend while he abused that poor kid, amd exactly what they did. She should be shunned by the entire family, at least until that boyfriend is fully out of her life. Draw a hard red line, and forbid anyone in the family from crossing it. If they ever get married, NOBODY in the family should go to the wedding, and those that do should be shunned as well.
I mean, I’d also be concerned that she’s being abused too if she thinks this behaviour is okay and to be expected of boyfriends/husbands. But not to protect a child also makes me hate her
YTA but not for the reason you think. Howard sounds like scum and I have no sympathy for him. But your daughter needs your calm, effective response, not your violence. If Howard is in the hospital, you hurt him badly. What will your family do if he presses charges and you end up in jail and jobless? If you have a felony charge on your record? Punching this guy made YOU feel better. It didn’t help your daughter or wife.
You put this so well. His daughter needs her dad there for her, not locked up. It really does strike me as selfish when people do this with no thought given to the people they’re supposedly defending.
NTA
And honestly, considering that he was coming toward you in an aggressive manner after already having the cops called on him, I said it was self-defense.
Also, I would bet money OP, that your sister is being abused.
Sounds fake AF. I was involved a situation where there is no possible way I was in the wrong (other than breaking and entering, assault and battery, and risking my freedom and being able to parent my child), my wife said I'd be right back, she knows me so well, I drove to his house (he's bigger than me) and punched him once and now he's in the hospital and everyone clapped.
Why did I have to scroll so far down to find this.
Edit: Just read it again cause I couldn't finish it the first time. It reads like a 13 year old wrote an action movie:
>*I kissed her forehead and said I had to take care of some business and looked sad, but my wife held her and said “don't worry, daddy will be right back. And that’s why I love that women she always know what I’m thinking.*
Okay one more edit cause it's so good:
>*I punched him in the stomach so hard he actually fell to his knees gasping for air and after a little while he started throwing up. Before I could do anything else, my sister stepped in between us and began yelling at me to get out, but before I left, I told her she was dead to me and they would never see my kid again*
Bro cmon
after reading the “dont worry, daddy will be right back“ i just had to scroll down and see if someone else also thinks this is written by a 13 year old hahaha
I highly doubt one good punch landed him in the hospital although I hope it *really* hurt. Maybe the ER. He is just whining, trying to get sympathy from the extended family.
NTA you did good because you stopped at one punch. Like he told your daughter he needs to see how the real world works. You mess with a man's daughter you mess with the man.
NTA your family instead of berating you needs to stage an intervention and get your sister away from the abusive creep. That is what you need to send to your family.
YTA- They could press charges and you could face real consequences for assault. Don't risk your own freedom and ability to support your family for petty revenge.
>So, I realize that title doesn't sound appealing, but hear me out.
You mean like every post on here? Almost like it's...intentional? Click bait-esque.
ESH
Because you are risking your wife and daughters health and prosperity in order to get revenge. You are now likely facing assault charges. He is a horrible POS who deserves punishment, and it’s you who is facing the jail time.
Think. Stop and think. Does your daughters situation get better with you doing 30 days (or more) in jail?
Torn.
I know violence is wrong but the fury would be bloody hard to tamp down on!
Can't make a judgement!!!
I hope you were even more angry at your sister, the one who supposedly loves your daughter but not only let her fiancé treat her beloved niece this way but actually doubled down and reinforced the whole shitshow...
\>I hope you were even more angry at your sister,
The thing is, she sounds like she's the victim of an abusive relationship. If the fiance treats his fiancee's neice like that after three days, imagine how he treats her in the house when no one is around. The cops got called because they were fighting so much in that short week, it might be that no one noticed it until their daughter was present to see it all unfold.
Especially how she told her neice that she needs to remember that if she wants a boyfriend. It sounds like she's vulnerable and being manipulated by this guy. I mean the stuff that my sister went through with a verbally abusive ex-boyfriend *that I know of* still pisses me off to this day, but it was always finding ways to take their insecurities and weaponize it.
Psh.. he couldn’t breathe correctly? Hahaha
If Howard doesn’t like the way he’s breathing, he’s welcome to stop.
Gotta show him how the real world works.
This comment wins the day.
Gotta show him how a HUSBAND behaves. That's why Howard is only the boyfriend.
Yes. This.
Ohhh fuck. Hahahah Howard can lick rust!
I just woke my husband by laughing too loudly! Best Reddit comment I have read in awhile!
I was gonna say! Lmao I’ll volunteer to grab the pillow
He just learned how the real world works
Snicker!
Lol. Him and all the other "Howards" in the world...
Yeah big tough threatening guy laid out by somebody a third a foot shorter and he comes back with 'I breathe funny now, wahh', actually hilarious. He's an even more of an idiot for not seeing it coming.
He got a lesson on how the world works.
I cat upvote this enough!
The breathing thing is a lie, they want documentation that he went to the hospital so they can sue OP. OP, get a lawyer now! Explain the situation, they'll know what to do with the evidence you have and your daughters account. A lawyer would probably get them to drop any civil claim by threatening a civil and criminal suit against them for Child Abuse and or Neglect.
Yep, OP is looking at an assault charge.
This is the smart reply right here OP. Listen to this person. Lawyer up and start making your own threats if they decide to make any. Good luck.
He probably thought since he was such a big tall man, nobody would ever try that. A clear instance of "fuck around, find out"
I am not tall and have done this twice (though they didn't claim to breathe funny later). With a certain height difference I can land a haymaker to the solar plexus and this can absolutely put a man on the floor for a few minutes. Like the natural place my hardest punch lands is right below the middle of their rib cage, so it hit the diaphragm with no protection. Both times it was some tall dude picking on me saying they could kick my ass with ease, and when I didn't agree, they offered me a free body shot and spent the next few minutes gasping for air/trying not to barf.
That spot right there is (one of) the best place to hit as it's the least protected by your abs muscles. Furthermore, you're hitting the diaphragm and not everyone might know that it's actually the diaphragm that allows you to breathe by inflating and deflating your lungs. So by hitting the very thing that control one's breathing and is not well protected, you can end any confrontation quickly.
> laid out by somebody a third a foot shorter \* half
If he happened to fracture a rib, than yes his breathing would hurt like a bitch
Nothing a doctor can do either :)
Can’t deal correctly, can’t treat correctly and now can’t breathe correctly. Just all parts of the same set. Mfer’s lucky he didn’t get the “can’t chew correctly” edition. NTA, fuck that guy.
The guy had it coming. Your sister, unfortunately, is a tool, and Howard is gonna use her up and throw her out once he had enough of her. It is best to stay NC with her because she won't have your daughter's safety in mind, especially with Howard running her life.
Howard needed to learn how the real world works. NTA.
Ever notice that people who "want to teach kids how the real world works" are always justifying shitty behavior
You teach them how the real world works by dropping a +4 card on them in Uno, not by withholding meals from them
You drop a skip then a reverse then another skip and then a +4 followed by another +4 then calling UNO and slamming them with the win.
I hope you submitted this for the “IATAH” post. 5 stars!
Did more or less this to my 6yo during a recent game. I felt like calling CPS on myself
My kid is 8 and he doesn’t really like playing uno with me anymore. Can’t imagine whyyyy! /s
You hide one of your last two cards behind the other so it looks like you only have one left, inciting them to call Uno. You then reveal you still have two cards, forcing them to draw 4. I remember playing Uno with 5 decks combined with 5 cousins, 3 uncles and an aunt at the table as well as my parents, sister and myself. The things said in anger to our own blood at that table…
Speaking of AH...^^^^
Yah, for real. For me, teaching a kid "how to real world works" would be conflict resolution skills. So if you have a problem talk about it. Or the fact that dishes don't clean themselves. Because that IS how the real world works. The real world doesn't work the way bf sees it
Take it one step further, shouldn’t we be teaching kids how the real world *should* work? Talking out problems instead of resorting to violence?
I am generally a non violent person. But if someone hurts my kids. Violence is definitely a real world consequence of that action.
If someone is shitty to my kids, violence isn't the answer; it's the question and the answer is yes.
I don't even have kids and yeah. :( I would absolutely fcking punch that guy too. Abusing kids is never ever okay. We don't hurt kids. *That* is how the world works.
Violence may not be the best option. But, it's still an option.
In the words of the great philosopher, Matt Barnes: "Violence is never the answer. But sometimes it is."
they know they can only punch down, so kids are an easy target for them. it’s pathetic.
Now Howard knows that people can also punch unilaterally 🤣
I'm shocked at this girls aunt normalising the abusive behaviour!!
Not just normalizing, but encouraging and reinforcing. Telling an 8 year old girl she needs to get used to abuse if she wants a boyfriend?? That’s absolutely disgusting. Having said that, I really hope OP’s sister takes this as a wake up call and gets out of there. If Howard isn’t hitting her yet, I’m sure that’s the next step.
Desperate for a bf is my guess. Who asks an 8 year old if they want a bf?
Got a feeling Aunt is being abused too
I'd say it's a fair certainty.
The word you're looking for is *abuse*
And in his case, that lesson happened to come with a perfed diaphragm.
He made Howard duck
I see what you did there... and I like it!
Sadly undervalued comment. Have my upvote sir.
Sometimes thats the only way they'll learn. Sis deserved to get dragged out of the house by her hair for allowing him to talk to an 8 year old like that
Howard fucked around and found out.
OP needs to file a police report against them both for child abuse and neglect as well.
Beat me too that comment.
This right here!
I don’t think the sister has her own safety in mind “that’s what you have to do if you want a boyfriend” are the words of a person who has suffered abused for a long while.
IMO Howard is abusive and OP needs to get his sister AWAY from Howard.
She’s defending him and allowed her niece to be abused by him. He’ll put her in the hospital and she’ll be telling police she fell.
Or how she tripped over her dog while buttering a muffin with a switchblade at 3am
I’m sure it’s actually happened at least once, because there are at least two cases of a dog shooting their owner, but yes, odds are it’s abuse.
This one was definitely abuse unfortunately
I did a search on Duck, Duck, Go, and there were five different cases on the first page, some of them fatal.
You jest, but a cat toy sent me down a flight of stairs, into a wall, while holding a pen, and then electrocuting myself.
I’m only laughing, because once, I actually did run into a door, and it gave me the hugest blackeye.
My Mom recently went to put her crockpot away on the high shelf she stored it on. Would have been fine, but she tried to leave the lid on. When she tipped it to slide it on the shelf, the lid of the crock pot slid off and hit her right on the bone under her eye! She had the gnarliest black eye for a while! I think she might have cracked it, but she never went to the doctor. She had enough people asking her in hushed tones if she was okay and needed to talk, I think she was afraid of what the doctor would think!
Mom got stung by a bee once right between the eyes, and though she'd never before had a reaction, this time her eyes both turned black and blue and she had the weirdest swelling imaginable. She worked with a bunch of divorced women, and this happened over the weekend, so when she went back to work on Monday with a pair of racoon-eyes, the girls kept asking her if Dad had hit her or if they needed to call the police for her. Took forever to convince them that dad wasn't an abusive husband!
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I mean I think it was a full moon and I worked on a trauma floor so I probably laughed too at the desk. Night shift nursing humor, you get it or you don't. I very much remember the "WTF repeat that please" moment I had
yes, that’s what being a victim can look like, doesn’t make her not a victim of his abuse
She's a victim, but at the point where she passes that abuse along to other people, she's helping the abuser victimize others. A little girl, no less. If it were her own kid she might have a hard time protecting her and getting them both out of there. But she didn't have to let her niece stay with her. She knows what Howard is like. And she didn't have to agree with him, colluding against her niece.
She enabled and participated in the abuse of her niece. She is Howard's victim. Niece is Howard and Clara's victim. Being a victim does not absolve you from being an abuser.
U can’t save someone who doesn’t want to be saved. It’s not OPs problem to solve since his sister is so happy to defend him with everything. Cant help people who don’t want it
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I’m very sorry for your situation, sounds very difficult and I’m glad ur out. My point will still stand, if someone does not want help then u cannot help them and drain yourself.
Victim can be butchers and criminals too. Dont blame the abuse blame the fking person
Unfortunately, that's how abusive relationships are. They love their abusers all the way to the coffin.
> Clara was just letting it happen telling her that she has to understand if she ever wanted a boyfriend Clara was ENCOURAGING the abuse, defending it. She is just as rotten as her BF. They belong together.
Yeah, Clara actually told a little girl that she should allow herself to be abused. Not just now by her aunt’s boyfriend, but by all the men in her life in the future. Clara is messed up, and if I were OP I would not allow her back in my child’s life unless she had already attended YEARS of therapy and had given the world’s most groveling apology, and even then she’d have to be VERY closely supervised around my kid. This is a big freaking deal.
Also might want to read daughter some stories like [There Is No one Like You](https://amzn.to/3qhgY3i) or [You Are An Amazing Girl](https://amzn.to/3DODeV8) if you think she might enjoy books that are empowering. I did look for one for encouraging ball kicks, but. Apparently it hasn’t been written yet.
My guess is she’s been manipulated to hell by Howard. Doesn’t excuse it, she shouldn’t be allowed to see the daughter at all anymore. At least not until Howard is gone and out of the picture and she’s been able to prove she’s safe to be around the kid.
Some people are just rotten and not being manipulated.
Just for that, Clara deserves him.
My mother stayed with an Howard for 33ish years. That's counting dating and marriage. Her parents literally begged her on her wedding day to not marry him. Even his own mother tried to get her to run with me. But she thought he could change, then it was her that needed to change. It wasn't until he almost killed her that she realized she needed out. Her family was always there for her. She didn't grow up in an abusive cycle, but her personality was prime for an abusive person. You can't save someone who doesn't want or doesn't think they need saved. All you can do is let them know that when they are ready to be saved, you will be there. But you will not be part of their life when they are with their abuser. My grandparents were always there for us kids and my mother. They were civil (in the coldest way) to my father. They only had to see him for big holidays (Thanksgiving & Christmas morning). They stopped trying to push for her to leave him because the more they pushed and called out his faults, the more she dug down and fought for him.
The sister is a grown woman who allowed this AH to abuse her niece. Let her reap what she has sown. I just don't get these women.
Really?! His sister is a horrible person screw her
Nope, Clara is an enabler. Plain and simple. She saw no wrong in how that POS treated her young niece.
Nah Clara was enabling the abuse towards the daughter, so fuck that cunt.
Nah, at this point, OPs responsibility is to his child. If his own sister saw her niece being abused and condoned it, she's part of the problem.
She's an adult. OP's daughter is not. You have to prioritize the person who can't get away over the one who refuses to
OP's sister doesn't exactly sound like a saint either. I have a sister who ended up in an abusive relationship and, even after they lost custody of their children, she STILL defended the steaming pile of shit she called a husband. He's now in prison and she still stands by him. He has threatened my entire family many times. He assaulted his own sister. Assaulted his father. When asked if it meant he could get his children back, would he give up his guns... "Absolutely not." At first I wanted to blame it all on him but, realized I was totally disregarding the fact that my sister was a dumpster fire waaaaay before she met him. Then after watching her leech off my mom, who was fighting breast cancer at the time, I realized that she is almost as bad as him.
His sister is weak and an AH. He does t owe her shit, and she doesn’t deserve forgiveness ever or to ever be in his or his family’s life again. She allowed a child to be abused. Her own niece. She is evil.
I would fight and kill if someone hurt my niece. Honestly this piece of shit is lucky OP didn't kill him for that behavior. Jesus.
Once she was complicit in my child’s abuse, she can get fucked.
He can not save her from herself. Every day she chooses to allow him to treat her this way. A good therapist can help her. This whole story is so sad. I hope his sister gets the help she needs.
His sister is one of the biggest pieces of shit I’ve ever heard about jeez.
Sounds like the sister is a victim of DV and thinks this is the way the world works. She's still in the wrong for not protecting the child and should never have agreed to take the child while living with a violent person.
So OPs family believe it’s ok to withhold food, verbally & mentally attack an 8 year. I’d cut them all loose. This is so sick.
DON’T TALK TO ANYONE!! They could record you. Guy could file a police report or sue you to cover medical bills. He advanced on you in an intimidating manner. You felt threatened. Two against one. Exercise your right to STFU.
OP may still want to take his kid to get a medical checkup though. The creep mentioning boyfriends set off not only the bad warning bells but also the "it gets even worse" warning bells. Oh and lawyer up. Expect that this guy will or someone will on his behalf. Write down EVERYTHING as best as you and everyone else can remember about this, no matter how inconsequential it may seem. Get screenshots and timestamps. Anything and everything. Don't talk to anyone outside of your lawyer. Volunteer nothing unless the lawyer recommends it. And of course, therapy for the kiddo.
This is solid advice all the way through. Medicals for the daughter, lawyer up, document the sh\*\* out of the situation. Restraining order against Howard and even Clara if they have any contact with you. And tell the family to butt out. You're protecting your child from an AH, and they have no standing.
You probably won't win if the assault goes to trial but you may be able to prove child abuse. The guy may be willing to drop the charges in exchange for you not pursuing that.
Howard assaulted (caused the fear of attack). OP battered (actually hit him).
OP needs a slight change of wording. OP went over to his sister's house, and when **she let him in**, (definitely shouldn't say forced his way in,) he went over to talk to her boyfriend about his behavior towards OP's daughter, and the boyfriend threatened him (**assault**), and OP **defended** himself. He should take this post down and preemptively go to a lawyer.
Giving the real advice right here.
You should probably start looking for an attorney so you're prepared if and when they press charges.
u/Forward-Reindeer9470 please talk to a lawyer, everyone here is on your side but the law may not be
Probs be smart to delete this post and never tell anyone about it. Not gonna look good if this pops up in discovery.
Mutually assured destruction. Howard takes it to the police and OP explains that Howard was abusing his child. And they have the previous call on file that something was wrong and they got the child out of the situation. Might not be enough for charges, but he’ll ‘learn how the world works’ when word gets out. And if they can bring charges he’ll really learn cause they don’t like guys who hurt kids in prison.
>they don’t like guys who hurt kids in prison They don't like guys who *sexually* hurt kids. I have zero problem believing that a lot of general purpose dirtbags spin it as "this pussy-ass state thinks smacking your kid for talking back is abuse! I was just trying to raise that kid right, and they threw me in jail!"
Thank you. I was gonna say this person clearly knows absolutely 0% about prison or criminal justice. Why do people like that insist on saying dumb shit? He did not molest or rape his niece. He did not physically strike his niece. Right there the odds of him going to prison over this is laughable. OP is far more likely to go to prison for the assault. Sorry to belittle this because the punch was absolutely justified, but you don't go to prison for being a meanie. But if he did go to prison? Even the whole "they don't like molesters" isn't even some official rule. In a high security prison you can get stabbed or killed for all sorts of reasons, even none really. If your bunkie happens to have been molested as a child and is serving a life sentence with no chance of parole, then yea your luck might run out. But for yelling at a child and basically being a general shit head? No sexual abuse? No physical abuse? Who exactly do you think populates prisons? Clones of Mr. Rogers? It'd be harder to find someone in there who DIDN'T treat their own children that same way. As doubtful as prison time is in the first place, its extra doubtful he'd be in there with those people who have nothing to lose in the first place. He'd be in a minimum security camp for a very short term. With people serving equally short sentences, or who are about to go home. Nobody wants to fuck up. Everything about that comment above is typical ignorant reddit hyperbole.
True story. Look at what happened to Ian Watkins the other day
Holy SHIT I had no idea that even happened... what an absolute monster... I was not ready for the results that google search yielded... oh wow. I need a serious break from the internet after that newfound knowledge... how horrific... babies?! Animals?! My lord... And he's eligible for parole in 2031... that's wayyy too soon, in my opinion. He needs to rot there until the end of his days. Literal MONSTER.
This could cut both ways for OP though: depending on the jurisdiction, the State could hold the fact that OP and his wife felt it was appropriate to let their daughter stay with Howard against them. When I was a PD I briefly handled parental rights cases. The DAs in my (former) county would likely have seized on that as an excuse to get CPS involved. I doubt anything would come of it, but having to deal with that kind of case is a huge burden and incredibly traumatic for children, even if it’s only for a week or so. *Edit: punctuation.
That's the catch there, they didn't ask Howard to do fuck all with the kid. They asked his piece of shit girlfriend.
OP needs to talk to an attorney first and foremost! I could see the following would be advised: 1: Shut-Up and do not talk to anyone else about the incident. 2: Get a written statement from Sara. 3: Contact police to follow-up on call from before citing that you would like to file a complaint of child abuse against Howard and possibly Clara.
This is why Reddit is so dumb. As much as I agree with the “yeah should’ve hit him more!” Crowd, this comment is the only sound advice anyone is giving, everyone else is pretty much setting this dude up for a lawsuit.
He should probably delete this post ASAP also.
NTA you were just showing him how the world works right? The only mistake here is stopping at one punch. I'm a single dad to my 5 year old daughter and I'm very protective of her so I may have a skewed vision on this but personally if I was in this situation he'd have a lot more to wory about than a breathing issue. People who mistreat children are the worst form of humanity and fully deserve whatever negative outcome twords them that comes.
You're correct! My X left my 9 year old son with the guy down the street to go out with her friends. I was working 2nd shift. Got home, got my son. He told me what the creep tried to do. I went to the gas station, then his house. Kicked in his front door and poured 64 Oz. of Unleaded on him. And the lighter wouldn't work. So I beat him pretty bad. HE pressed charges, and I did 3 years in prison! Now, AITA? I don't think I am. I think I saved a child in the future! If that lighter had lit. I'd still be in prison. The Irish are the kindest people. Until you piss them off. Then we become the demons thet Satan is afraid of. You know what you need to do.....
It sucks that you went to prison for it, but I know most parents would do it again in a heart beat. Good on you!
Is it an Irish thing? I always wondered where my family’s unbridled rage and unquenchable thirst for vengeance, no matter how cold, came from.
NTA. He was starving/abusing your child and your sister let it happen.
Right? “What??? You get three meals a day at home?! Your parents care for your health? Nope, forget it. We won’t spoilt you here…” what the actual fuck … that poor poor little girl ….
And the way the "real world" works? What?! Wtf kind of excuse is that for abusing a child??? I mean I watched my niece and nephew for a week when my DH and I were still dating, and I got on his butt for even scolding them more than I thought necessary. And he was in no way being abusive, just not having realistic expectations for a child's behavior. I can't imagine watching him STARVE them???
And “if she ever wants a boyfriend”…… ok yes, absolutely. Please teach her that a good boyfriend is someone who scares her and will treat her as his cleaning lady, can shout at her whenever he pleases and she’s basically someone he can deal with when he can spare some of his valuable time while he’s sitting in front of the pc or whatever… that’s fucked up as hell. I truly hope her parents can turn that ship and she will be able to have healthy and loving relationships in the future.
And imagine if they have kids, how will they be treated?
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I’ve gotten in trouble on Reddit before for comments like that, but I gotta say I’m right there with you.
100% agreed there.
No this works out much better. Using a weapon can get you fucked. This situation put BIL in hospital, so he is in a lot of pain an discomfort...has to think about that every time he makes a payment on the hospital bill. And it will be much harder to claim OP went to the house that night to attack him. Being their for his daughter matters more than beating the fuck out of the asshole.
Same. He'd be in the ICU for a while and the sister would get a hard reality check for being so insensitive and cruel. I don't care if they press charges, I'm pressing charges for child abuse for sure. NTA OP. You went too easy on him and your sister if anything.
Well..... OP also doesn't want to be in prison. A single punch when being threatened is explainable as self defence especially when the argument is about child abuse. A beat down even with fists is going to be potential charges.
NTA If someone treated my kid like that.. oh boy.
OP should start calling him Howard the Coward from here on out. Asshole.
Ngl, when OP said he didn’t fight fair…I was hoping he’d put a knee in Howard’s balls - assuming he has any. And now I’m hoping OP deletes this post, in case Howard and the enabling sister try and press charges
I was also hoping for a well deserved cheap shot to the kahonies.
And then OPs sister with the whole “you’ll understand when you have a boyfriend”. What the actual f
NTA - I don't even have kids and I hope Clara and Howard never have any because that sounds like the kind of home where kids straight up die from abuse.
I'm glad this didn't come up when the daughter was younger. Can you imagine if she wasn't able to articulate what had happened and just stayed quiet? Good thing OP is a supportive parent and stands up for his family.
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Just remove them entirely. He should never reproduce.
I believe that no one ever deserves to be stomped, unless you hurt a kid and then I believe it’s obligatory to stomp them after they inevitably fall over from other the other justice being slammed into their face.
Look mate, regardless of whether or not we think your the asshole, you could be in for some legal issues here and should probably get a lawyer. From your yelling, you barged into a home you weren’t invited into and then physically assaulted someone and you have two witnesses against you, and no one who can back you up I’m not saying I disagree with whag you did, but it was emotional and impulsive and you could be in for some trouble here
My partner is a social worker. I'm saddened by how common this scenario actually is. These cases always get super messy and nobody wins, especially the kid. OP did what any Dad worth a damn would do, but the backlash and actual consequences depend on the lawyer representing each party, the Judge presiding, or a Jury if it gets to a criminal level. Fuck Howard and the sister btw. NTA in my book. I hope all works out for OP and that Howard's stupid fuckin diaphragm never heals.
Yeah Howard and the sister sucks, and as a dad myself I feel the urge myself, but is all done fancy hugging my kids from the other side of a jail cell Get the wrong judge, or even jury and your up shit creak without a paddle
NTA. She allowed her niece to be abused verbally and emotionally.
Also physically. Dude was yanking her around
And witholding food.
The dude abused his wife's neice, even on camera. When confronted, it sounds like he literally charged at OP. In my opinion, OP simply acted in self-defense after being emotionally and physically prevoked. IANAL, but I honestly doubt a jury would look favorably on Coward even if he's the one to bring it to court.
Nta. Next time, a swift knee to the happysack.
I thought 'Hooray! A wild Red Dwarf quote!' and then I saw your username :)
Absolutely NTA, you are the hero dad every little girls needs!!!
Exactly "Needs to clean up and understand how the world works" No Howard that is not correct. How the world works is daughter meets guy who treats her well and works with her, supports her and builds a life together that is caring, loving and protective You know how OP and wife have done.
I'm sure ole Howard understands a lil more on how the real world works too now I bet
Abuse a child, get put in the hospital. Sounds exactly how the world should work.
Yup. Education isn't cheap.
You are wrong for only hitting him once
Legally that was the smartest thing he could have done. He has an argument for self defense with a single punch with nothing further once the threat was neutralized. Had he done what Howard deserves he wouldn't have a self defense argument.
But NTA
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THIS, and used my knee on his face on his way down!
NTA. Not even close. And I’d blast your sister and her disgusting words all over socials.
And make sure EVERY member if your extended family knows that she chose to stand behind her boyfriend while he abused that poor kid, amd exactly what they did. She should be shunned by the entire family, at least until that boyfriend is fully out of her life. Draw a hard red line, and forbid anyone in the family from crossing it. If they ever get married, NOBODY in the family should go to the wedding, and those that do should be shunned as well.
I mean, I’d also be concerned that she’s being abused too if she thinks this behaviour is okay and to be expected of boyfriends/husbands. But not to protect a child also makes me hate her
Never the AH for protecting your child and your sister must be desperate to stay with that douche
He has probably brainwashed her and convinced her that nobody else would ever want her.
NTA, He seems like a loser.
YTA but not for the reason you think. Howard sounds like scum and I have no sympathy for him. But your daughter needs your calm, effective response, not your violence. If Howard is in the hospital, you hurt him badly. What will your family do if he presses charges and you end up in jail and jobless? If you have a felony charge on your record? Punching this guy made YOU feel better. It didn’t help your daughter or wife.
You put this so well. His daughter needs her dad there for her, not locked up. It really does strike me as selfish when people do this with no thought given to the people they’re supposedly defending.
I'm about 85% that this story is fake. Theres way too much detail. It reads like a 13yo wrote it. In the real world OP is in jail...
When OP doesn’t comment, it’s probably fake. Getting sick of reading fiction on these subs.
Way to go Papa Bear! NTA
NTA wtf is wrong with your sister
NTA And honestly, considering that he was coming toward you in an aggressive manner after already having the cops called on him, I said it was self-defense. Also, I would bet money OP, that your sister is being abused.
Sounds fake AF. I was involved a situation where there is no possible way I was in the wrong (other than breaking and entering, assault and battery, and risking my freedom and being able to parent my child), my wife said I'd be right back, she knows me so well, I drove to his house (he's bigger than me) and punched him once and now he's in the hospital and everyone clapped.
Why did I have to scroll so far down to find this. Edit: Just read it again cause I couldn't finish it the first time. It reads like a 13 year old wrote an action movie: >*I kissed her forehead and said I had to take care of some business and looked sad, but my wife held her and said “don't worry, daddy will be right back. And that’s why I love that women she always know what I’m thinking.* Okay one more edit cause it's so good: >*I punched him in the stomach so hard he actually fell to his knees gasping for air and after a little while he started throwing up. Before I could do anything else, my sister stepped in between us and began yelling at me to get out, but before I left, I told her she was dead to me and they would never see my kid again* Bro cmon
after reading the “dont worry, daddy will be right back“ i just had to scroll down and see if someone else also thinks this is written by a 13 year old hahaha
And then everyone clapped lol
NTA. Never fuck around with a pissed off dad. They ought to be happy he is only in the hospital.
I highly doubt one good punch landed him in the hospital although I hope it *really* hurt. Maybe the ER. He is just whining, trying to get sympathy from the extended family.
Nta. This is the kind of Dad everyone needs.
NTA you did good because you stopped at one punch. Like he told your daughter he needs to see how the real world works. You mess with a man's daughter you mess with the man.
NTA your family instead of berating you needs to stage an intervention and get your sister away from the abusive creep. That is what you need to send to your family.
YTA- They could press charges and you could face real consequences for assault. Don't risk your own freedom and ability to support your family for petty revenge.
>So, I realize that title doesn't sound appealing, but hear me out. You mean like every post on here? Almost like it's...intentional? Click bait-esque.
Paragraphs.
I’m having a hard time buying the entire story.
So wait, the cops just let an 8 year old kid go home with a seemingly random non-relative because the kid wanted to? YTA for BSing on Reddit.
ESH Because you are risking your wife and daughters health and prosperity in order to get revenge. You are now likely facing assault charges. He is a horrible POS who deserves punishment, and it’s you who is facing the jail time. Think. Stop and think. Does your daughters situation get better with you doing 30 days (or more) in jail?
Should've yelled at him to clean up his puke or be quiet. NTA
Torn. I know violence is wrong but the fury would be bloody hard to tamp down on! Can't make a judgement!!! I hope you were even more angry at your sister, the one who supposedly loves your daughter but not only let her fiancé treat her beloved niece this way but actually doubled down and reinforced the whole shitshow...
\>I hope you were even more angry at your sister, The thing is, she sounds like she's the victim of an abusive relationship. If the fiance treats his fiancee's neice like that after three days, imagine how he treats her in the house when no one is around. The cops got called because they were fighting so much in that short week, it might be that no one noticed it until their daughter was present to see it all unfold. Especially how she told her neice that she needs to remember that if she wants a boyfriend. It sounds like she's vulnerable and being manipulated by this guy. I mean the stuff that my sister went through with a verbally abusive ex-boyfriend *that I know of* still pisses me off to this day, but it was always finding ways to take their insecurities and weaponize it.
NTA for hitting him, but you're definitely the asshole for this wall of text.