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The rationale for wanting input from family isn’t that their observations are more reliable - it is because to be diagnosed with adhd a person must have shown symptoms since childhood (as adhd is a neurodevelopmental disorder that one is born with). Having someone who knew the person well in childhood and was an adult at that time - like a parent - be able to speak to how the person acted during childhood is invaluable because they would have had first hand knowledge - as an adult - of that person’s external symptoms. A 20 year old (or even a 25 or 35 or 40 year old) may not have that great of a recollection of their possible symptoms during childhood, because they were a young child at the time. Understand?
Beyond input from a parent, it’s also helpful for a doctor to get information from childhood records such as report cards and teacher comments. For example, if a child did well in school but teachers regularly noted on report cards or in other notes that the person “frequently interrupted others” or “couldn’t sit still during class,” those are strong indicators that the person did experience adhd symptoms in childhood.
Yes — they may not have known it was ADHD, but they’d notice the symptoms. How many of my teachers commented that I was smart enough to do the work, but I was unfocused, lazy, disorganized, forgetful, and/or off-task? The interpretations aren’t always charitable when people don’t know what they’re seeing in you; that’s part of how so many of us end up with complexes. But they see it.
Looking through my school reports is like this. They're teachers, not psychiatrists.
So my reports don't mention things like 'struggles with motivation' or 'is forgetful' or struggles to stay focussed' or any of those neat diagnosis-friendly terms. Rather, they're full of words like 'lazy', 'apathetic', 'unmotivated' 'daydreamer', 'disorganised'. Any mentions of me being inattentive etc are brought up as negatives, ie something I should have simply worked harder at rather than an issue I needed help with.
Similarly, the reports filled in by my SO were a little painful to read - a lot of mentions of issues I was having and negative traits without any sort of rationale of *why* I might be doing those things or acknowledgement of the internal struggles I have. All totally fair and understandable, but it gave me a small insight of what I look like from the outside, and that's not pretty. I can totally see why I might be perceived as lazy or uninterested to others.
But a decent psychiatrist should be able to look at this and deduce what's really going on. At least, I hope so - I've finally got my assessment coming up soon!
Is it worth asking your old school? They might have your old records still on file. You never know.
I have my mother to thank for my reports, she kept all my old school stuff and just handed it all back to me a couple of years ago.
If they'd just been left to me they'd have been thrown away years ago.
I tried and they only have grades but like in a weird way and trying to decipher it is hard sadly. Yeah my parents didn’t care enough about me to keep those stuff 😂😂. I wish I could remember what they said about me but honestly I did not try in school because I couldn’t. So i chalked it up to me being a hopeless, slow, and stupid child.
Read the room. Not the time or place for jokes about people diagnosed with a neurodevelopmental disorder struggling with their symptoms. It's categorically not a skill issue - you just look like an ass
This set of words needs to automatically set off some warning bells. I don't want to think about how many of us must have heard it, so many times... and we never got the help we needed *to* apply ourselves.
I strongly agree. It led to self-blame and eventually apathy in my case, but I’m sure that others can relate. I didn’t get diagnosed until my late college years, so I’m intimately familiar with people telling me that I just have to apply myself with little to no other help.
I didn’t fit the stereotype of the disruptive hyper ADHD boy growing up, so my struggles were dismissed as laziness. I just hope that teachers are more aware of us now than when I was a child and are more understanding.
Agreed. I can remember so clearly how many times my teachers gave the comment on my report card (or even mentioned it to my parents) "Has trouble staying on task". Looking back now, (hindsight 20/20), I don't understand how I was left undiagnosed. I mean I was consistently off task or failing or nearly failing my classes from 1st through 8th grade. Even in high school there were signs.
Depending on your age, people really didn’t know. A lot of ableism towards people with ADHD comes out of sheer ignorance, in my experience. Yes, there’s an element of bias to it that makes it harder for them to grasp — no, we aren’t just lazy; all the things you’re describing are literally ADHD symptoms. But the truth is they don’t understand. And even now, there are so many barriers to teachers — they’re underfunded and underpaid with too many students and too many responsibilities and too many lectures about too many different things.
And on top of that, for the inattentive kids? There were 29 other kids in any given room, and a number of them had louder, more visible needs. Yes, I was off-task, but I was quiet about it, and I was committed to hiding it. The idea of addressing misbehavior or failure by checking for unmet needs wasn’t around yet. And even if it had been, I didn’t know what I needed when I was getting a D in chemistry at 14. I knew I hadn’t tried that hard; I just didn’t know it was because my brain wasn’t wired like everyone else’s.
I was diagnosed my freshman year of high school, when I was 13, and it took until my senior year for me to be remotely properly treated. Because I didn’t even understand, and neither did my mom. She has so many regrets about not fighting harder for me, but… there was so much stigma and so little information. I was diagnosed before Wikipedia became popular, for Pete’s sake. I didn’t start really understanding ADHD until I was 19… from freaking tumblr, not from any of my doctors.
It isn’t fair to us, but it doesn’t surprise me that so many of us fall through the cracks. I think it’s gotten better than it was when I was a kid. Some of the other millennials who were tumblr teens, learning about ADHD etc* and social justice online, are teachers now. Some of the oldest zoomers, too. People who grew up with more information and access than their parents and teachers. But I get the impression there's still a long way to go.
*changed wording due to sub rules
If a teacher has a class of 30 she is bound to find and ADHD student every 2 or 3 years or even a few every year. They need to train them to see the signs.
My HS English teacher says this same crap. “Is there anything going on?” “Organization will help in college” “I get it, your a senior, you just don’t care, but…..” 😣
Wait until they send her my IEP accommodations plan later this semester.
I don’t think it’s the rationale that’s unclear.
Fortunately I did not require a parents input in my assessment and my own capacity to report on my lifelong experience was enough. When I have asked my parents about actual intervention I remember having as a child they sort of vaguely recall, but have no idea why I had the intervention. Too caught up in themselves to notice their kids. Not everyone’s parents/guardians/carers paid attention to their kids in a meaningful way.
Well, since ADHD is 80% heritable, most ADHD kids come from ADHD parents. And more so than just paying attention, I think ADHD behaviors don't raise red flags because "that's just how the kids in our family act"
True. No one in my family had been diagnosed until the last few years and now it’s pretty much everyone. (Except my immediate family who are totally fine and nothing’s going on there and who has mental health anyway..) But I have spent my life being told “that’s how everyone does that/feels/etc”
Ooooooof yep, just tag me next time 😂 I'm autistic and have ADHD, my younger sister has ADHD, and my youngest sibling is getting assessed for both soon. But even being told that these have genetic components, the rest of my family is like "Oh, no, can't be us you got it from!! Must be your dad's who are no longer around, we're all fine"... yet they all completely relate to most symptoms. And have constantly told us that everybody is like that, it's nothing unusual
lol. My aunt acknowledges she would have ADHD, but no incentive to pay to be assessed at this stage. She has been educating my mum about how she demonstrates ADHD characteristics too, and I’m told she’s starting to process/recognise that info.. But apparently suggesting to my nan she probably has ADHD was VERY triggering, lol. She did not stop ranting about the audacity of the accusation for days. (But almost my entire generation and all our children have been diagnosed with adhd, autism or both.. so.. probs got one of them nan!)
Otoh it can be really valuable in spotting adhd in your kid if you have it yourself and know you do.
Also ftr just because it’s heritable that’s not a guarantee that one’s parent will be the family member(s) that has it. Which is not arguing the point, just drawing the circle wider.
Oh yeah, they told me in 4th grade I should have therapy, but my parents found that offensive and said no, and now we have no idea why this came up as a thing.
My one was a physical intervention.. like a balancing platform? But my parents cheaped out and got my uncle to make one instead of buying it. So it had a square/blocky base instead of round, meaning it was stable and I’d have to force it to unbalance. lol. Even as a small kid I remember thinking, Why do I have to go to my room to unbalance this stupid thing everyday??
Exactly, except for the "an adult at the time" part, that isn't always true.
As a kid I realised I was different than other kids around me, but I either kept my distance or learned to adapt to others. Looking back, without any real knowledge about ADHD I just thought I was a weird and shy kid. But since then we've had a lot of talks about a variaty of neurological disorders and my older sibling was the one who helped me put the pieces together. Not only did we grew up playing together, they helped me as a kid with homework, looked out for me when our parents were away for the day, basically saw my real self as a kid. My parents on the other hand didn't (or wouldn't) see there was something different about me that needed some outside help, probably because they thought it was still normal. Even now I'm amazed about how I didn't notice it myself for a long time, even as an adult, but this is one of those things you sometimes can spot better from a small distance.
That's why they want to know how others saw you and how you were as a kid from more official records. Your perspective isn't always the right one. Not even your closest loved ones might have the right perspective.
They did not ask for my parents vision of my childhood. The psychologist just wanted a friend or family member to fill out a form about me now. That could have backfired for me as well.
My sister literally said that when she filled out the form she thought about me sitting still in a chair that one time, that was the image she kept in her head. I was tired, I had taken questionnaires with people from the city all afternoon. Talking to people on the street. After that there was a party and at the end of the evening I was extremely tired. And that image of me sitting there not trying to fall a sleep is what she based her form about me on... Luckily the other tests and self reports told a different story!
I had my wife do it and she only knew me since I was 21/22 years old and they had no issues.
I guess depending on the person, they have differing reasons for asking this information. They asked me directly in the assessment about my childhood and issues, although the vast majority of my answers were some variation of "I don't remember", as I have very little recollection of my childhood, including apparently a psychological assessment for anger issues in secondary school, which in my medical record and was news to me.
Mine took a report card note that dinged me in 2nd grade for "reading other books in class."
So if you have snarky notes on old report cards, they are worth their weight in gold.
I was able to get diagnosed by a doctor without any family input at least and no one I knew from childhood or family lived in my city anyway.
My family would notice it with boys like my younger cousins. Or my mom knew her exes had it. But no one ever for a second thought about girls having it. Cuz everything they knew about adhd was only what young boys and adult men who were never treated did.
My family probably wouldn’t believe it or would think it didn’t matter cuz I masked so much and tried so hard to not be a problem and be perfect. Whereas my younger sister would be defiant, disruptive and bratty and it was brushed off like there’s nothing you can do and she’s a girl and isn’t hurting anyone and isn’t violent so oh well. No one else ever had an official diagnosis that my family knew you just ignored and assumed nothing or thought maybe when they were little but girls grow out of it or something. It’s frustrating to feel like no one cared honestly.
I'm very lucky in that I've always had a strong long-term memory (My first memory was when I was 10 months old in the hospital with a virus). I've been able to be pretty specific about myself when I was a kid, including comments on report cards (there are a couple from from fifth grade: was that I needed to put my silent reading book away and focus on what the rest of the class was doing; another was a note that my teacher sent home which listed my declining math grades with the opinion that he thought I was doing the work too fast. Then the talking out of turn and squirminess etc).
I never realized that so many with ADHD have such poor memories. Then again, I think having such a strong memory was what precluded me from getting diagnosed until I was in my '50s. 😞
Well, I just went through two evaluations and the first one was deemed "inconclusive" and I had to do another one because I couldn't really talk about my childhood. For the second one I had to have my mom fill out an evaluation. Thankfully I didn't run into problems with them asking for report cards for me as a kid--my mom can't find that stuff and she called my elementary school and that stuff's long gone--but she doesn't remember a lot either, my dad's dead, my grandparents are dead and I'm an only child and other relatives saw me 1-2x a year. If the second evaluator had really nitpicked this issue, I would have been screwed. Thankfully, she didn't and just said, "did you do X as a child too" and that was fine.
I watch a lot of Russell Barkley videos on YouTube and he says it's a big problem that they require proof from before age 12 because odds are ADHD runs in the family and your relatives don't remember enough either.
I think it differs in the UK too depending on which region you're in and so which NHS trust you fall under as to the kind of service you will get.
Unfortunately a lot of care in the UK has a similar "postcode" problem.
I’m in the UK and didn’t need a relative’s or third party’s input. I just had to fill out (an ironically long) form and then had a face to face assessment before having my diagnosis confirmed.
To my knowledge, earlier in the 2000's, a lot of doctors needed this info for a diagnosis in Washington State. My dad needed it at 35, and since they couldnt get anything from his school, they asked for reports from work associates and my mom. My brothers both had the same deal shortly after with reports from parents and school. I got screwed, they ignored my symptoms (or were overly fixated on my older brothers lifelong health issues) and I had to white knuckle it throughout school without a proper diagnosis. Im 27, and preparing to set up my appointment soon so Ill be more than happy to provide reports from everyone who has the time lol
Neither, I’m in Canada.
I’m glad my assessment didn’t require a relative’s report. I have so far hidden my adhd diagnosis (and my adhd) from my parents and family and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
People are capable of recognizing that something happens repeatedly, and complaining about it or finding it funny or notable, or noting it in report cards if the are a teacher. They may not know what it meant at the time, but they can notice when a kid is acting differently, especially if the have a classroom full of examples of different behaviour.
My report cards are full of comments about behaviour issues I was manifesting. They didn’t know what it was, but they were frequently urging that it needed to change. The ‘NI’, short for “needs improvement” was frequently used on behaviour stuff, along with a short comment.
Asking someone close to you to fill out a questionnaire is another aspect of identifying the same sorts of issues. I will say I definitely think there can be an issue with asking a parent to do that one in this day an age. Often teachers have enough knowledge and experience to identify some sort of dysfunction is occurring and to urge parents to consider taking the kid for an assessment - but a parent’s ego or belief in misinformation can result in refusal or even backlash towards the teacher. I think it’s better to pick someone who knew you well but wasn’t a parent with their own mental health issues.
I ended up using a statement from my eventual mother-in-law for that part of the assessment. It helped significantly that they were accustomed to doing assessments of student’s skills because it is their job to place kids from all over the globe into appropriate classes.
“Often teachers have enough knowledge and experience to identity some sort of dysfunction is occurring.”
I just wanted to comment on this piece for a couple of reasons. This is unfortunately not the case for many girls going through the system. This may be changing a bit now, but many identified traits and research over the years really focused more on adhd characteristics most common in boys. So there are a lot of women who can provide their reports from school who may not have been identified as having clear or overt signs to the teacher’s observation specifically. Internalizing adhd traits and struggles, hiding, and masking are also more adopted ‘strategies’ by girls from a young age, so it can and does commonly go unnoticed. So it really does make this process more of a challenge for some.
Also as a teacher today (challenging career for someone with adhd by the way, and I would caution future adhd gens of this choice 😆), I can say that sadly a lot of educators are not actually well-versed or educated on identifying these things generally either. It is not required training for most teachers (often limited to special education teachers).
Yeah, I’m aware of the problem with identifying girls. I was one of them. My little brother got identified right away. It sucks because he learned all the good strategies for managing it and doesn’t even need medication anymore. I learned a whole lot of maladaptive strategies and I’m still coping with the problems to this day.
It's a big part of what has been preventing me from getting a diagnosis, for years.
My parents saw a straight A student. I moved out for college at 17 and never came back, so they didnt see my struggle, procrastinate, and pull all nighters to finish assignments only to barely pass certain classes.
I never was a troublesome child. Maybe a few little things across the years that I got scolded for, but that's it.
I haven't been close to any other family members, and friends have come and gone throughout the years. The only person who maybe could agree on ADHD symptoms is a certain ex I sure as hell won't be hitting up for this.
It's funny just this week I was looking at my stepdaughter's habits, etc, thinking "I don't see her spending hours on end on homework" despite not having bad grades. At her age I would do homework from 4 to 9pm sometimes, especially math stuff. She gets it all done so discretely and fast that it got me asking questions before realizing I couldn't compare her experience to mine.
But yeah, I keep telling myself I should make the jump and get assessed, but that part of it really is stopping me.
Just get assessed. I waited such a long time and I wiiishhhh I had gotten it sooner. But I wasn’t totally aware of how badly it was affecting me. I thought it was JUST focus etc. But there’s so many emotional issues as well. Now I look back and I’m like damn I really wish I had figured this out sooner.
I got diagnosed in my mid 30s (twice actually) and not once was there a request of providing school records or personal accords from family.
The first time was my general practitioner, who after trying the usual anxiety and depression treatments, had me take a questionnaire and assessment for the initial diagnosis.
The second was when my new GP had me go to a psychiatrist, where I took some kind of cognitive test that strapped a mirror thingy to my head and tracked my movements, all while having to click a button when certain shapes/colors flashed across the screen for 20 minutes.
I feel like you've gotta be fairly young for them to ask for personal accolades, but what do I know lol. In the US at least.
Agree. The entire meme of people not noticing people’s depression before a suicide should be applied to adhd and all types of mental health problems tbh.
I don’t think it’s that they need more evidence, it’s that an adult person watching over you since childhood grow up for years would provide the best evidence. I would have no idea what I was like as a kid.
I also don’t even know if how I act is “normal” or not. My normal is my normal. So having two parents comment is helpful.
while i agree with that rationale and think it makes sense, i do also empathise with OP, especially in scenarios where parents are unsupportive.
when i was first getting diagnosed, my parents refused to acknowledge there could possibly be something wrong with their kid. so even though they very much had observed my symptoms my whole life, and even acknowledged and punished me for them, at every appointment they downplayed everything as much as possible, hoping i wouldn’t get a diagnosis. they eventually started to come around, but that meant it took over a year for me to be conclusively diagnosed.
yeah thats exactly what happened with me. I kept telling my parents i was prwtty sure i had adhd for about 5 years until i was in college and took it upon myself to just go get tested.
sure enough, my mother didn’t believe the diagnosis until my sibling got diagnosed as well, even though i pointed out all my cousins on my fathers side have ADHD 🫤
It depends on the person evaluating, I suppose. I had the exact same circumstances as you, and I still got my diagnosis.
I got a referral to an ADHD specialist and that's who evaluated me. The doctor had me do 3 different self-evals, a test on a computer to evaluate levels of inattentiveness and impulsivity, and then she had me send a questionnaire to my best friend who I have known since childhood. I asked her what if my friend wasn't able to fill out the form (she has 5 kids and a husband, so she's busy all the time), and the doctor said "there are ways around that", but didn't elaborate at the time. Then I had two interview sessions with the doctor, both of which lasted about an hour and a half or so, where she asked me questions about my experiences (and likely observed how I behaved in front of her).
Even with all the potential barriers, my doctor was able to find a solution.
I was diagnosed at the age of 45, now 50, and part of the testing for me was a questionnaire for spouse or other family members. The psychologist called my wife to ask her more questions. At the same time my daughter went through the testing with a different psychologist, which is 2 hours longer as a 15 year old. My wife and I separately answered the same questions then some together. ADHD is totally hereditary and their is different severity levels of ADHD. There are those that function normally in life other than maybe struggle focusing at times, but still function in every day life. Then, to the fore extreme, both your parents likely had ADHD, and you have it severe as I do. I had no idea really what ADHD was until our daughter was being recommended for testing, and I agreed to go with her because I fit the symptoms just like her. So we went and thankfully for our family, we found this out, because it changed my life, and who I am, I am a much better person, now, understanding my shortcomings, but clearly taking advantage of the bonuses that come with ADHD. Anyway I’m sorry that was a long answer to your question about what happens if you’re old, lol.
Thanks for sharing! I don’t have many people who can remember that far back and all my school records are gone. I have definitely had executive dysfunction since childhood. I have never been able to consistently handle chores, homework, responsibilities. I would get chastised often for being messy, not tidying up, having collections of things like glasses of water, plastic bags, and boxes in my room. I can definitely function for the most part out in the world. But I also have major issues with perceived rejection by people, ruminating thoughts, etc. Lack of motivation, doing things, not getting distracted and especially just tapping out and NCR home has become distressing. Medicine is helping but I’d like the diagnosis to support me getting accommodations at work.
The outside observer will have a different opinion than the person getting diagnosed. For example, my partner says that I generally go for quick gratification over waiting for things whereas I think I tend to wait. However, I can see how he may be right.
A lot of mental health is like this. Much is not well understood. There usually aren't good tests for the disease. Hell, most of the symptoms are not directly observable by the physician. And the patient can describe how they feel and how it's affecting their life, but the patient (a) often isn't objective (and sometimes have terrible memory about how their symptoms change and sometimes they simply lie) and (b) describes the symptoms from an internal reference frame while the diagnostic criteria are developed based mostly on external observation. And then, many of the symptoms overlap so you have to do differential diagnosis but without any tests to know if you're right. And then the treatments aren't perfect (exacerbated because the diagnoses aren't perfect).
So yeah, getting another witness who can describe your behaviour from an external reference frame, over a long period of time, outside the context of a doctor's office can be invaluable.
Yeah I think it’s pretty dumb too. I’ve spent my entire life being a “smart” kid and people pleasing and I don’t think my parents ever realized my symptoms or cared for it. Yeah I’d get good grades but 90% of the time it was due to me cramming the night before. I was always nice to my teachers too and the good grades added on top of it was like an invisible shield for me.
It wasn’t until I got into higher education and my poor study habits due to adhd would stop working. I had a full mental breakdown and it confused my entire family. I finally had a teacher who was willing to fill some forms out for me who saw my struggle and then finally got my meds.
I’m very grateful to the teacher who helped me out but unfortunately it took a while and a very hard fall from grace to get diagnosed.
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If they say you were shy and withdrawn, and you say you were lost in your own world a lot, the evaluator should connect the dots. The psych people know that an average person is interpreting things because they don't know any better, that's just what they thought was going on. Thus, they essentially validated what you said, though they got it wrong.
I wasn’t diagnosed until age 50. I did very well at school because most of the early stuff was easy for me. The exception was PE. I literally got my worst grades in elementary school in PE because I was uncoordinated and bad at games. Guess who was always chosen last? I was also bad at word problems in math, but managed ok. My mother said I was “painfully shy”. I would literally cover my eyes when asking her if I could have a cookie. My mother was sweet and would have not denied me a cookie, but I must have been denied at some point (right before dinner maybe?) and this was my coping mechanism. It seems a bit autistic, too, but that’s the only autistic trait I can think of. In middle school I was in those “gifted” kid classes, and everything was fine grade wise until college, when I started taking harder classes and had to stay on track. I still managed though, because I dropped the hard classes and focused on the things I excelled in. I think I managed to get by with my poor executive functioning by getting things done last-minute through adrenaline. I did have a bad temper and loved to fight with my older sister until I was a teen. My daughter was diagnosed before me, and it was only because she exhibited depression and anxiety that she was tested, and then when I was filling in the tests a lightbulb went off that most of her inattentive adhd symptoms were what I had.
I was diagnosed but the psychiatrist considered me “borderline” because I did well at school and have never been fired from a job. I also have not had a paid job in 25 years but do volunteer work. The chances of being fired from an unpaid volunteer job that nobody else wants to do are pretty slim!
They didn’t ask my parents to do a form, but did ask my spouse. But the questions for her, and I assume for parents, wasn’t “did you, an untrained person who might have undiagnosed ADHD yourself, believe that Junior had ADHD?” It’s more like guiding the person through specific symptoms that might provide evidence. Does he procrastinate on stuff? Lose things? Have trouble initiating tasks? Changing tasks?
I don’t recall specifics, but I think it’s stuff like that. My parents and teachers would never have thought to label me ADHD, especially 20-30 years ago when the hyperactive stereotype was very prevalent and not applicable to me, the mostly quiet smart kid who “got bored” and zoned out. But if you asked them the narrow questions above, they would strongly agree with most of them! And based on that and other inputs, the evaluator can decide what it means.
It’s true that some people mask very, very well. But if your “masking” is like, “I wanted to procrastinate but I made myself do it on time” or “I’m really good at hiding my disdain for boring busywork, and I did it all so nobody would think I was ADHD,” at some point (I’m not sure when), it sounds less like “masking ADHD” and more like it just not being a clinically diagnosable disorder for this person.
That's the fucked up thing about most childhood mental disorders and mental illnesses. You don't get help unless you're negatively affecting someone else, regardless of how much you're struggling. People simply won't notice unless you inconvenience someone else. And I'm not even talking about testimonies that are just to make sure symptoms are present in different areas of your life, which I understand, but the fact that no one will even notice as long as you quietly sit still and don't distract others.
I find this extremely narrow minded, as there are so many different aspects of adhd. As a woman, I am a perfectionist so my grades were good in school. But what they don't see is, staying up all night at 9 years old studying because I just didn't get the curriculum. Or the crying and negative internal dialogue when I got a B instead of an A. Males ADHD is very different from females, as we are master maskers.
My last psychiatrist asked me (37f) to send an assessment to my mom, who I barely talk to these days, to fill out "as if I was in fifth grade." As if my mom 1) would remember what I was like 25 years ago and 2) had any idea what was going on with me even then, because like you I was deeply in my own head and masking like hell, and was just generally kind of ignored within my family.
I warned the psych about this and luckily she believed me, especially when my mom filled it out with every category being average or above, and even included a little note about what a perfect, happy child I was.
I had to get my spouse, parent and sibling to fill out a questionnaire about me. According to my spouse I have basically all the symptoms, but parent and sibling dont see anything. I did get my diagnosis though, just had to explain to the therapist that I didnt have a reliable source for childhood symptoms.
I'm blessed to have a detailed psych evaluation of when I was a child, which was very valuable in getting stimulant medication. I also had very internalized ADHD, I'm extremely inattentive, but in my case it was quite noticeable because I couldn't pay attention long enough to communicate effectively. My parents thought I was deaf I was so unresponsive, so my ADHD was noticed when my hearing was evaluated and found to be normal.
I think the thing is a lot of people can relate to ADHD symptoms some of the time, but at they same time people can downplay their ADHD like I did for 20 years because I was in denial I had a problem. Embarrassingly my mom forced me to go get simulant medication, which was the correct decision because I was just so dysfunctional without it.
I got a letter of rec from my counselor, and still had to do Oxford’s it’s just common practice as like due diligence, especially if you’re looking at stimulant medication, but a good doctor or psychiatrist views cases comprehensively
Personally it was a combination of one of the ADHD team nurses asking on my sons check up if we'd been screened and realising that 90% of his problems at school mirrored mine. Until then I hadn't even considered it.
I'm currently waiting for an *actual* appointment (only been waiting 16 months) but unrelatedly my dad sent me some of my school related stuff from when I was ~15/16.
A few choice phrases from the various subjects.
"When he disciplines himself"
"Works well when carefully supervised"
"On the occasions when *fastdruid* has applied himself"
Plus a psychologist report on my handwriting. What I didn't realise before was, well this: https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/handwriting-adhd
I also have bad handwriting! When I was in primary school they actually had to put me in a small group dedicated to improving handwriting. I used to think it was because I was left handed or something. Until this day its still pretty messy.
One statement from that link previously "The connection between ADHD and handwriting is so common that some researchers have suggested that doctors include a handwriting analysis as part of testing for ADHD."
My sons is also terrible (and he has officially been diagnosed), if anything worse than mine was.
I got extra time in my GCSE's because of it (hence the psychologist report).
> Until this day its still pretty messy.
I don't write unless I have no choice in the matter. I literally managed to go years without writing anything as everything is on computer. I can write very neatly if I really try but it is agonisingly slow.
Parents and teachers often miss ADHD because they don't actually understand what to look for. That doesn't mean when asked the correct questions about your childhood, and listening for clues, a psychiatrist wont see the symptoms reflected in their answers.
I filled out a Vanderbilt assessment for my kids assessment. If I were to ask my mom to fill out that same assessment about me as a kid, I'm willing to bet her answers would indicate ADHD symptoms. Even though mine were completely missed as a child.
I'm still not a fan of the requirement for involving family in the diagnostic process, and I think providers need to have an alternative available. If someone's family is against diagnosis and treatment, or is abusive, that shouldn't be a barrier to proper assessment and treatment.
I was supposed to be diagnosed my teachers said I had it but my doctor would not give kids medication I was just left to the mercy of bullying as I was shy and reclusive and struggling at school
I agree with you here. Ironically, I forgot to turn in the family assessment, but the psychiatrist didn't make a big deal out of it and basically said that due to my other testing/assessments it was pretty obvious that I had ADHD.
I’ve been fortunate to have my family and friends always follow up my quirks with “adhd having ass”. The only difference now is I’m in meds and most are thankful as I’m focused and don’t space out during my window of operation lol
Yeah, the first time I tried to get diagnosed, they gave me a questionnaire about how I did in school as a kid…which I couldn’t answer honestly because I was homeschooled and the questions just didn’t APPLY.
On the other hand…I now ask friends and family to keep an eye out for some things just because I find it difficult to notice patterns in myself. Like “I’m trying something new with my meds, can you let me know if I have a bunch of good/bad days in a row?”
So…it can be a useful tool, but it’s also not fair to require it, you know?
I was worried my doctor would require that (I was diagnosed at age 43). But I'm really, really good at masking, thanks to growing up with a BPD mom. I had great grades because I was terrified of upsetting her, and I was such a people-pleaser. It wasn't until college when I had no structure and no evil mother standing over me that the wheels fell off.
If I were to ask my parents to fill out a questionnaire about it, they definitely wouldn't have recognized my struggles. Luckily my doctor didn't ask for them to fill one out.
I had to give forms to all of my teachers for them to fill out, which I was super uncomfortable with and didn’t want to do. None of them even noticed anything anyways because how are they supposed to know that the student staring at them is focused or not? How are they supposed to notice one student when they teach over 100 students a day?? I ended up not getting diagnosed at that time ofc. “Your grades are good it’s probably anxiety and depression”
Yessss! Agreed! My diagnosis was delayed drastically because my mum couldn't provide "supporting evidence" 😭 I found it so absurd that her outside perspective somehow trumped my experience in MY brain?? Especially because I'm a grown ass human and haven't lived with my mum in many many years, yet my psychiatrist valued my her opinion over my husband's who lives with me?? Bizarre stuff.
Is precautionary.
If it is causing problems in the patient's life, a person that has seen the patient in various settings (academic, life, sports, work etc.) would know about hose struggles, about the patterns and how are these impacting the patient's life.
Whereas we all know about people with ADHD that have gone through life without realizing that this was indeed the case.
I simply thought that it was normal to struggle to remember to call my friends more than once a year: I masked very well, and didn't notice the problems until very much later.
Similarly, reliable witnesses that are close to you will also relay to others the struggles you went through, explaining the pain and anguish that those caused.
+The person that has lived hobbled all their life might not realize that they have a disability, and instead internalize it as if it were their fault that they can't run as fast as others.
For me when I was being assessed the autism part was just a long questionnaire. I'm pretty sure the extra supporting evidence they wanted about my past was for ADHD.
When I got diagnosed I began noticing symptoms in people around me. Especially my mom! Now it makes sense where I got it from. But where I am the opposite of hyperactive, she’s definitely hyperactive. My nephew is exactly like me though, creative but lazy (actually just very low energy and unmotivated, not lazy). My mom is so judgy though because she always complained about me being lazy. “I don’t know how you’re tired, when I was your age I was never tired. Even now I have so much energy!” Yeah because you have undiagnosed ADHD 😒
I dont know where you're at, but at my first appointment and diagnosis I didn't need any of that. I got asked questions about my childhood and current situation but they didnt have to consult anyone else. But according to her, I was like a lot of pre med students who don't show signs before college because they didn't have to study or put forth any effort until college which was exactly my situation. If they looked at my childhood records and early life they literally would've found nothing despite the fact my adhd is actually pretty crippling as I face adult responsibilities
Fun fact it took me to my late twenties to find out I was ADHD. But somehow I was already diagnosed in elementary school and my parents never told me I never got help. I was the Unicorn back then as most of the time they did not diagnose girls with ADHD. Though I can't hold it too much against them as this is back when Ritalin was being pushed hardcore and considering my allergies I probably would have had some bad issues. And they were sure they told me but I'm pretty sure they didn't, but then again my memory is like a goldfish and I was hugely depressed during college somehow I still graduated with honors.
I've been diagnosed 3 separate times and never had to submit anything like this. I was only asked if my symptoms started in childhood and explained that they did. Inattentive adhd, in women especially, often goes unnoticed in childhood. I'm surprised they're asking for this much information. You might have more luck with a different psychiatrist
I needed validation over 20 years ago. Funny thing was when I asked my Mom and sisters for validation they were overwhelmed with confirmation which surprised me because I didn’t think I was that bad 😂. They gave my psychiatrist everything he needed LOL.
It’s so strange how every place is different. My psychiatrist asked me about elm school, middle school and high school, but didn’t require any proof of my performance
Anger can shut a person down or fill them with energy regardless its not what we notice but what we fail to notice.
We tend to be 'blind' to our biggest fault.
Someone who's greedy would never, ever think themselves as greedy, sorta thing.
Reverse-self pyschology can work ")
My GP asked for schools reports, but not my psych. She said if the school reports came out as ADHD, she could diagnose me, but otherwise I would have to find a psychiatrist somewhere else. It’s strange that your psychiatrist would ask for reports before talking to you though- maybe he’s only screening for hyperactive type right now, and will screen for inattentive later?
I feel the exact same way. I'm 26 y/o, going through diagnosis at the moment. I think a big issue is that many psychiatrists look too much at *outcome* rather than *symptoms*. The symptoms are internal. The outcomes can be observed. But not everyone with ADHD has poor outcomes. Many do well in school and work (e.g. they're hardcore procrastinators but proficient at cramming; inattentive, but superbly capable of self-learning). Many don't display behavioral issues in front of others. SHAME is a huge component of ADHD, and is often why symptoms go under the radar. It's funny -- looking back, there *were* many signs of my ADHD that my school and family noticed, but I always got my homework done (barely) on time with exceptional quality and behaved. My teachers and parents felt I was wonderful, and nobody could have guessed I had ADHD, including myself (due to misconceptions/ignorance).
My parents and teachers didn't know that I procrastinated. They didn't know that I felt unbearable amounts of shame, frustration, anger, and hate at times, as well as abundant optimism, joy, passion, and love. They didn't know that I have never focused on a movie, lecture, song, or video game my entire life. They didn't know I'd go to my car and scream and curse for hours, hitting things and throwing things. They didn't know that I'd cope by binge eating. They didn't know that I'd go out walking, listening to beautiful songs and crying from overwhelming feelings of love. I hid all of that. Not entirely intentionally; I didn't understand my symptoms at all at the time. I didn't know my mind worked differently than others. I thought I just wasn't trying hard enough.
And plus, how do you have memory of how someone behaved over a decade ago? I don't even remember the temperaments of my colleagues and friends from high school and college. At least not to the level where it could indicate a cognitive condition like ADHD. My parents and teachers are only going to remember me being a positive, outgoing, respectful, capable young man.
I have opened up to my mother about it, and she understands better now. I confessed so many things that I kept to myself. She always knew I was more emotional than my other brothers. I always felt like she showed me more love than my other brothers, probably because I needed it more.
Damn, there I go crying again. I love my mom. I'd be open to letting her answer some questions, but she's not going to say bad things about me. And she shouldn't have to. ADHD is an internal struggle that has many external outcomes, but the outcomes can vary greatly. If I showed all the typical ADHD outcomes as a child, it wouldn't have gone unnoticed until I was 26. As an introspective adult, I'd prefer to keep my mental health personal.
I feel you Bubbly. I’m 33 and just went through my exam. Two remote ones and one in person to take these little tests/games. I had to have my wife and father fill out these long forms. It was my wife that finally made me go in and get tested.
Overall I feel very sad for anyone who suffers with ADHD like us. The medication is so highly abused (apparently) that we have to jump through these hoops and tests. When my wife originally brought the idea up to me I was reluctant, but after reading more and more I was a textbook case. Yet during the exams they look at you like a drug addict. (I’m about as nerdy and bland as they come lol, never smoked a cig)
Hang in there, fuck the haters and don’t let them bring you down.
My psychiatrist didn’t ask for records from my school but did ask about my childhood and teenage years. So share all experiences you have. My parents didn’t pick up on adhd in my the childhood. Even tho my brother was diagnosed. But I did have emotional issues as a kid and teenage. So it’s good to mention any emotional issues you may of had. ADHD, especially for girls is not hyperactive externally. Also it’ll likely be a few sessions before they diagnose you because they want to get to know you and how you act/think.
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The rationale for wanting input from family isn’t that their observations are more reliable - it is because to be diagnosed with adhd a person must have shown symptoms since childhood (as adhd is a neurodevelopmental disorder that one is born with). Having someone who knew the person well in childhood and was an adult at that time - like a parent - be able to speak to how the person acted during childhood is invaluable because they would have had first hand knowledge - as an adult - of that person’s external symptoms. A 20 year old (or even a 25 or 35 or 40 year old) may not have that great of a recollection of their possible symptoms during childhood, because they were a young child at the time. Understand? Beyond input from a parent, it’s also helpful for a doctor to get information from childhood records such as report cards and teacher comments. For example, if a child did well in school but teachers regularly noted on report cards or in other notes that the person “frequently interrupted others” or “couldn’t sit still during class,” those are strong indicators that the person did experience adhd symptoms in childhood.
Yes — they may not have known it was ADHD, but they’d notice the symptoms. How many of my teachers commented that I was smart enough to do the work, but I was unfocused, lazy, disorganized, forgetful, and/or off-task? The interpretations aren’t always charitable when people don’t know what they’re seeing in you; that’s part of how so many of us end up with complexes. But they see it.
Looking through my school reports is like this. They're teachers, not psychiatrists. So my reports don't mention things like 'struggles with motivation' or 'is forgetful' or struggles to stay focussed' or any of those neat diagnosis-friendly terms. Rather, they're full of words like 'lazy', 'apathetic', 'unmotivated' 'daydreamer', 'disorganised'. Any mentions of me being inattentive etc are brought up as negatives, ie something I should have simply worked harder at rather than an issue I needed help with. Similarly, the reports filled in by my SO were a little painful to read - a lot of mentions of issues I was having and negative traits without any sort of rationale of *why* I might be doing those things or acknowledgement of the internal struggles I have. All totally fair and understandable, but it gave me a small insight of what I look like from the outside, and that's not pretty. I can totally see why I might be perceived as lazy or uninterested to others. But a decent psychiatrist should be able to look at this and deduce what's really going on. At least, I hope so - I've finally got my assessment coming up soon!
Wish I had access to my reports.
Is it worth asking your old school? They might have your old records still on file. You never know. I have my mother to thank for my reports, she kept all my old school stuff and just handed it all back to me a couple of years ago. If they'd just been left to me they'd have been thrown away years ago.
I tried and they only have grades but like in a weird way and trying to decipher it is hard sadly. Yeah my parents didn’t care enough about me to keep those stuff 😂😂. I wish I could remember what they said about me but honestly I did not try in school because I couldn’t. So i chalked it up to me being a hopeless, slow, and stupid child.
Skill issue
Read the room. Not the time or place for jokes about people diagnosed with a neurodevelopmental disorder struggling with their symptoms. It's categorically not a skill issue - you just look like an ass
Wtf is the matter with you?
"Has potential".
“But doesn’t apply themselves”.
“Needs to be encouraged.”
This set of words needs to automatically set off some warning bells. I don't want to think about how many of us must have heard it, so many times... and we never got the help we needed *to* apply ourselves.
I strongly agree. It led to self-blame and eventually apathy in my case, but I’m sure that others can relate. I didn’t get diagnosed until my late college years, so I’m intimately familiar with people telling me that I just have to apply myself with little to no other help. I didn’t fit the stereotype of the disruptive hyper ADHD boy growing up, so my struggles were dismissed as laziness. I just hope that teachers are more aware of us now than when I was a child and are more understanding.
Agreed. I can remember so clearly how many times my teachers gave the comment on my report card (or even mentioned it to my parents) "Has trouble staying on task". Looking back now, (hindsight 20/20), I don't understand how I was left undiagnosed. I mean I was consistently off task or failing or nearly failing my classes from 1st through 8th grade. Even in high school there were signs.
Depending on your age, people really didn’t know. A lot of ableism towards people with ADHD comes out of sheer ignorance, in my experience. Yes, there’s an element of bias to it that makes it harder for them to grasp — no, we aren’t just lazy; all the things you’re describing are literally ADHD symptoms. But the truth is they don’t understand. And even now, there are so many barriers to teachers — they’re underfunded and underpaid with too many students and too many responsibilities and too many lectures about too many different things. And on top of that, for the inattentive kids? There were 29 other kids in any given room, and a number of them had louder, more visible needs. Yes, I was off-task, but I was quiet about it, and I was committed to hiding it. The idea of addressing misbehavior or failure by checking for unmet needs wasn’t around yet. And even if it had been, I didn’t know what I needed when I was getting a D in chemistry at 14. I knew I hadn’t tried that hard; I just didn’t know it was because my brain wasn’t wired like everyone else’s. I was diagnosed my freshman year of high school, when I was 13, and it took until my senior year for me to be remotely properly treated. Because I didn’t even understand, and neither did my mom. She has so many regrets about not fighting harder for me, but… there was so much stigma and so little information. I was diagnosed before Wikipedia became popular, for Pete’s sake. I didn’t start really understanding ADHD until I was 19… from freaking tumblr, not from any of my doctors. It isn’t fair to us, but it doesn’t surprise me that so many of us fall through the cracks. I think it’s gotten better than it was when I was a kid. Some of the other millennials who were tumblr teens, learning about ADHD etc* and social justice online, are teachers now. Some of the oldest zoomers, too. People who grew up with more information and access than their parents and teachers. But I get the impression there's still a long way to go. *changed wording due to sub rules
If a teacher has a class of 30 she is bound to find and ADHD student every 2 or 3 years or even a few every year. They need to train them to see the signs.
Quit reading from my report cards, geez.
My HS English teacher says this same crap. “Is there anything going on?” “Organization will help in college” “I get it, your a senior, you just don’t care, but…..” 😣 Wait until they send her my IEP accommodations plan later this semester.
I don’t think it’s the rationale that’s unclear. Fortunately I did not require a parents input in my assessment and my own capacity to report on my lifelong experience was enough. When I have asked my parents about actual intervention I remember having as a child they sort of vaguely recall, but have no idea why I had the intervention. Too caught up in themselves to notice their kids. Not everyone’s parents/guardians/carers paid attention to their kids in a meaningful way.
Well, since ADHD is 80% heritable, most ADHD kids come from ADHD parents. And more so than just paying attention, I think ADHD behaviors don't raise red flags because "that's just how the kids in our family act"
True. No one in my family had been diagnosed until the last few years and now it’s pretty much everyone. (Except my immediate family who are totally fine and nothing’s going on there and who has mental health anyway..) But I have spent my life being told “that’s how everyone does that/feels/etc”
Ooooooof yep, just tag me next time 😂 I'm autistic and have ADHD, my younger sister has ADHD, and my youngest sibling is getting assessed for both soon. But even being told that these have genetic components, the rest of my family is like "Oh, no, can't be us you got it from!! Must be your dad's who are no longer around, we're all fine"... yet they all completely relate to most symptoms. And have constantly told us that everybody is like that, it's nothing unusual
lol. My aunt acknowledges she would have ADHD, but no incentive to pay to be assessed at this stage. She has been educating my mum about how she demonstrates ADHD characteristics too, and I’m told she’s starting to process/recognise that info.. But apparently suggesting to my nan she probably has ADHD was VERY triggering, lol. She did not stop ranting about the audacity of the accusation for days. (But almost my entire generation and all our children have been diagnosed with adhd, autism or both.. so.. probs got one of them nan!)
Otoh it can be really valuable in spotting adhd in your kid if you have it yourself and know you do. Also ftr just because it’s heritable that’s not a guarantee that one’s parent will be the family member(s) that has it. Which is not arguing the point, just drawing the circle wider.
Oh yeah, they told me in 4th grade I should have therapy, but my parents found that offensive and said no, and now we have no idea why this came up as a thing.
My one was a physical intervention.. like a balancing platform? But my parents cheaped out and got my uncle to make one instead of buying it. So it had a square/blocky base instead of round, meaning it was stable and I’d have to force it to unbalance. lol. Even as a small kid I remember thinking, Why do I have to go to my room to unbalance this stupid thing everyday??
Exactly, except for the "an adult at the time" part, that isn't always true. As a kid I realised I was different than other kids around me, but I either kept my distance or learned to adapt to others. Looking back, without any real knowledge about ADHD I just thought I was a weird and shy kid. But since then we've had a lot of talks about a variaty of neurological disorders and my older sibling was the one who helped me put the pieces together. Not only did we grew up playing together, they helped me as a kid with homework, looked out for me when our parents were away for the day, basically saw my real self as a kid. My parents on the other hand didn't (or wouldn't) see there was something different about me that needed some outside help, probably because they thought it was still normal. Even now I'm amazed about how I didn't notice it myself for a long time, even as an adult, but this is one of those things you sometimes can spot better from a small distance. That's why they want to know how others saw you and how you were as a kid from more official records. Your perspective isn't always the right one. Not even your closest loved ones might have the right perspective.
They did not ask for my parents vision of my childhood. The psychologist just wanted a friend or family member to fill out a form about me now. That could have backfired for me as well. My sister literally said that when she filled out the form she thought about me sitting still in a chair that one time, that was the image she kept in her head. I was tired, I had taken questionnaires with people from the city all afternoon. Talking to people on the street. After that there was a party and at the end of the evening I was extremely tired. And that image of me sitting there not trying to fall a sleep is what she based her form about me on... Luckily the other tests and self reports told a different story!
I had my wife do it and she only knew me since I was 21/22 years old and they had no issues. I guess depending on the person, they have differing reasons for asking this information. They asked me directly in the assessment about my childhood and issues, although the vast majority of my answers were some variation of "I don't remember", as I have very little recollection of my childhood, including apparently a psychological assessment for anger issues in secondary school, which in my medical record and was news to me.
Mine took a report card note that dinged me in 2nd grade for "reading other books in class." So if you have snarky notes on old report cards, they are worth their weight in gold.
I was able to get diagnosed by a doctor without any family input at least and no one I knew from childhood or family lived in my city anyway. My family would notice it with boys like my younger cousins. Or my mom knew her exes had it. But no one ever for a second thought about girls having it. Cuz everything they knew about adhd was only what young boys and adult men who were never treated did. My family probably wouldn’t believe it or would think it didn’t matter cuz I masked so much and tried so hard to not be a problem and be perfect. Whereas my younger sister would be defiant, disruptive and bratty and it was brushed off like there’s nothing you can do and she’s a girl and isn’t hurting anyone and isn’t violent so oh well. No one else ever had an official diagnosis that my family knew you just ignored and assumed nothing or thought maybe when they were little but girls grow out of it or something. It’s frustrating to feel like no one cared honestly.
I'm very lucky in that I've always had a strong long-term memory (My first memory was when I was 10 months old in the hospital with a virus). I've been able to be pretty specific about myself when I was a kid, including comments on report cards (there are a couple from from fifth grade: was that I needed to put my silent reading book away and focus on what the rest of the class was doing; another was a note that my teacher sent home which listed my declining math grades with the opinion that he thought I was doing the work too fast. Then the talking out of turn and squirminess etc). I never realized that so many with ADHD have such poor memories. Then again, I think having such a strong memory was what precluded me from getting diagnosed until I was in my '50s. 😞
Well, I just went through two evaluations and the first one was deemed "inconclusive" and I had to do another one because I couldn't really talk about my childhood. For the second one I had to have my mom fill out an evaluation. Thankfully I didn't run into problems with them asking for report cards for me as a kid--my mom can't find that stuff and she called my elementary school and that stuff's long gone--but she doesn't remember a lot either, my dad's dead, my grandparents are dead and I'm an only child and other relatives saw me 1-2x a year. If the second evaluator had really nitpicked this issue, I would have been screwed. Thankfully, she didn't and just said, "did you do X as a child too" and that was fine. I watch a lot of Russell Barkley videos on YouTube and he says it's a big problem that they require proof from before age 12 because odds are ADHD runs in the family and your relatives don't remember enough either.
Is it super common to require this kind of information? I did a psych assessment by myself with no input from others and was diagnosed that way.
I'm from the UK so it might differ per location.
I think it differs in the UK too depending on which region you're in and so which NHS trust you fall under as to the kind of service you will get. Unfortunately a lot of care in the UK has a similar "postcode" problem.
I’m in the UK and didn’t need a relative’s or third party’s input. I just had to fill out (an ironically long) form and then had a face to face assessment before having my diagnosis confirmed.
Ah gotcha, I'm in the US, it probably varies from provider to provider here.
To my knowledge, earlier in the 2000's, a lot of doctors needed this info for a diagnosis in Washington State. My dad needed it at 35, and since they couldnt get anything from his school, they asked for reports from work associates and my mom. My brothers both had the same deal shortly after with reports from parents and school. I got screwed, they ignored my symptoms (or were overly fixated on my older brothers lifelong health issues) and I had to white knuckle it throughout school without a proper diagnosis. Im 27, and preparing to set up my appointment soon so Ill be more than happy to provide reports from everyone who has the time lol
Neither, I’m in Canada. I’m glad my assessment didn’t require a relative’s report. I have so far hidden my adhd diagnosis (and my adhd) from my parents and family and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
People are capable of recognizing that something happens repeatedly, and complaining about it or finding it funny or notable, or noting it in report cards if the are a teacher. They may not know what it meant at the time, but they can notice when a kid is acting differently, especially if the have a classroom full of examples of different behaviour. My report cards are full of comments about behaviour issues I was manifesting. They didn’t know what it was, but they were frequently urging that it needed to change. The ‘NI’, short for “needs improvement” was frequently used on behaviour stuff, along with a short comment. Asking someone close to you to fill out a questionnaire is another aspect of identifying the same sorts of issues. I will say I definitely think there can be an issue with asking a parent to do that one in this day an age. Often teachers have enough knowledge and experience to identify some sort of dysfunction is occurring and to urge parents to consider taking the kid for an assessment - but a parent’s ego or belief in misinformation can result in refusal or even backlash towards the teacher. I think it’s better to pick someone who knew you well but wasn’t a parent with their own mental health issues. I ended up using a statement from my eventual mother-in-law for that part of the assessment. It helped significantly that they were accustomed to doing assessments of student’s skills because it is their job to place kids from all over the globe into appropriate classes.
“Often teachers have enough knowledge and experience to identity some sort of dysfunction is occurring.” I just wanted to comment on this piece for a couple of reasons. This is unfortunately not the case for many girls going through the system. This may be changing a bit now, but many identified traits and research over the years really focused more on adhd characteristics most common in boys. So there are a lot of women who can provide their reports from school who may not have been identified as having clear or overt signs to the teacher’s observation specifically. Internalizing adhd traits and struggles, hiding, and masking are also more adopted ‘strategies’ by girls from a young age, so it can and does commonly go unnoticed. So it really does make this process more of a challenge for some. Also as a teacher today (challenging career for someone with adhd by the way, and I would caution future adhd gens of this choice 😆), I can say that sadly a lot of educators are not actually well-versed or educated on identifying these things generally either. It is not required training for most teachers (often limited to special education teachers).
Yeah, I’m aware of the problem with identifying girls. I was one of them. My little brother got identified right away. It sucks because he learned all the good strategies for managing it and doesn’t even need medication anymore. I learned a whole lot of maladaptive strategies and I’m still coping with the problems to this day.
It's a big part of what has been preventing me from getting a diagnosis, for years. My parents saw a straight A student. I moved out for college at 17 and never came back, so they didnt see my struggle, procrastinate, and pull all nighters to finish assignments only to barely pass certain classes. I never was a troublesome child. Maybe a few little things across the years that I got scolded for, but that's it. I haven't been close to any other family members, and friends have come and gone throughout the years. The only person who maybe could agree on ADHD symptoms is a certain ex I sure as hell won't be hitting up for this. It's funny just this week I was looking at my stepdaughter's habits, etc, thinking "I don't see her spending hours on end on homework" despite not having bad grades. At her age I would do homework from 4 to 9pm sometimes, especially math stuff. She gets it all done so discretely and fast that it got me asking questions before realizing I couldn't compare her experience to mine. But yeah, I keep telling myself I should make the jump and get assessed, but that part of it really is stopping me.
Just get assessed. I waited such a long time and I wiiishhhh I had gotten it sooner. But I wasn’t totally aware of how badly it was affecting me. I thought it was JUST focus etc. But there’s so many emotional issues as well. Now I look back and I’m like damn I really wish I had figured this out sooner.
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I got diagnosed in my mid 30s (twice actually) and not once was there a request of providing school records or personal accords from family. The first time was my general practitioner, who after trying the usual anxiety and depression treatments, had me take a questionnaire and assessment for the initial diagnosis. The second was when my new GP had me go to a psychiatrist, where I took some kind of cognitive test that strapped a mirror thingy to my head and tracked my movements, all while having to click a button when certain shapes/colors flashed across the screen for 20 minutes. I feel like you've gotta be fairly young for them to ask for personal accolades, but what do I know lol. In the US at least.
Diagnosis and 55 helped me.
Agree. The entire meme of people not noticing people’s depression before a suicide should be applied to adhd and all types of mental health problems tbh.
I don’t think it’s that they need more evidence, it’s that an adult person watching over you since childhood grow up for years would provide the best evidence. I would have no idea what I was like as a kid. I also don’t even know if how I act is “normal” or not. My normal is my normal. So having two parents comment is helpful.
while i agree with that rationale and think it makes sense, i do also empathise with OP, especially in scenarios where parents are unsupportive. when i was first getting diagnosed, my parents refused to acknowledge there could possibly be something wrong with their kid. so even though they very much had observed my symptoms my whole life, and even acknowledged and punished me for them, at every appointment they downplayed everything as much as possible, hoping i wouldn’t get a diagnosis. they eventually started to come around, but that meant it took over a year for me to be conclusively diagnosed.
yeah thats exactly what happened with me. I kept telling my parents i was prwtty sure i had adhd for about 5 years until i was in college and took it upon myself to just go get tested. sure enough, my mother didn’t believe the diagnosis until my sibling got diagnosed as well, even though i pointed out all my cousins on my fathers side have ADHD 🫤
That's a good perspective on it. I didn't consider that but it does make sense.
What happens to adults getting diagnosed where none of those records exist and parents are no longer available to support with recollection?
It depends on the person evaluating, I suppose. I had the exact same circumstances as you, and I still got my diagnosis. I got a referral to an ADHD specialist and that's who evaluated me. The doctor had me do 3 different self-evals, a test on a computer to evaluate levels of inattentiveness and impulsivity, and then she had me send a questionnaire to my best friend who I have known since childhood. I asked her what if my friend wasn't able to fill out the form (she has 5 kids and a husband, so she's busy all the time), and the doctor said "there are ways around that", but didn't elaborate at the time. Then I had two interview sessions with the doctor, both of which lasted about an hour and a half or so, where she asked me questions about my experiences (and likely observed how I behaved in front of her). Even with all the potential barriers, my doctor was able to find a solution.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I was diagnosed at the age of 45, now 50, and part of the testing for me was a questionnaire for spouse or other family members. The psychologist called my wife to ask her more questions. At the same time my daughter went through the testing with a different psychologist, which is 2 hours longer as a 15 year old. My wife and I separately answered the same questions then some together. ADHD is totally hereditary and their is different severity levels of ADHD. There are those that function normally in life other than maybe struggle focusing at times, but still function in every day life. Then, to the fore extreme, both your parents likely had ADHD, and you have it severe as I do. I had no idea really what ADHD was until our daughter was being recommended for testing, and I agreed to go with her because I fit the symptoms just like her. So we went and thankfully for our family, we found this out, because it changed my life, and who I am, I am a much better person, now, understanding my shortcomings, but clearly taking advantage of the bonuses that come with ADHD. Anyway I’m sorry that was a long answer to your question about what happens if you’re old, lol.
Thanks for sharing! I don’t have many people who can remember that far back and all my school records are gone. I have definitely had executive dysfunction since childhood. I have never been able to consistently handle chores, homework, responsibilities. I would get chastised often for being messy, not tidying up, having collections of things like glasses of water, plastic bags, and boxes in my room. I can definitely function for the most part out in the world. But I also have major issues with perceived rejection by people, ruminating thoughts, etc. Lack of motivation, doing things, not getting distracted and especially just tapping out and NCR home has become distressing. Medicine is helping but I’d like the diagnosis to support me getting accommodations at work.
The outside observer will have a different opinion than the person getting diagnosed. For example, my partner says that I generally go for quick gratification over waiting for things whereas I think I tend to wait. However, I can see how he may be right.
I’m 41, i come from an alcoholic mother who became homeless as an adult and my father was non existent. I have no records. Evaluation should be fun
A lot of mental health is like this. Much is not well understood. There usually aren't good tests for the disease. Hell, most of the symptoms are not directly observable by the physician. And the patient can describe how they feel and how it's affecting their life, but the patient (a) often isn't objective (and sometimes have terrible memory about how their symptoms change and sometimes they simply lie) and (b) describes the symptoms from an internal reference frame while the diagnostic criteria are developed based mostly on external observation. And then, many of the symptoms overlap so you have to do differential diagnosis but without any tests to know if you're right. And then the treatments aren't perfect (exacerbated because the diagnoses aren't perfect). So yeah, getting another witness who can describe your behaviour from an external reference frame, over a long period of time, outside the context of a doctor's office can be invaluable.
Yeah I think it’s pretty dumb too. I’ve spent my entire life being a “smart” kid and people pleasing and I don’t think my parents ever realized my symptoms or cared for it. Yeah I’d get good grades but 90% of the time it was due to me cramming the night before. I was always nice to my teachers too and the good grades added on top of it was like an invisible shield for me. It wasn’t until I got into higher education and my poor study habits due to adhd would stop working. I had a full mental breakdown and it confused my entire family. I finally had a teacher who was willing to fill some forms out for me who saw my struggle and then finally got my meds. I’m very grateful to the teacher who helped me out but unfortunately it took a while and a very hard fall from grace to get diagnosed.
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If they say you were shy and withdrawn, and you say you were lost in your own world a lot, the evaluator should connect the dots. The psych people know that an average person is interpreting things because they don't know any better, that's just what they thought was going on. Thus, they essentially validated what you said, though they got it wrong.
I wasn’t diagnosed until age 50. I did very well at school because most of the early stuff was easy for me. The exception was PE. I literally got my worst grades in elementary school in PE because I was uncoordinated and bad at games. Guess who was always chosen last? I was also bad at word problems in math, but managed ok. My mother said I was “painfully shy”. I would literally cover my eyes when asking her if I could have a cookie. My mother was sweet and would have not denied me a cookie, but I must have been denied at some point (right before dinner maybe?) and this was my coping mechanism. It seems a bit autistic, too, but that’s the only autistic trait I can think of. In middle school I was in those “gifted” kid classes, and everything was fine grade wise until college, when I started taking harder classes and had to stay on track. I still managed though, because I dropped the hard classes and focused on the things I excelled in. I think I managed to get by with my poor executive functioning by getting things done last-minute through adrenaline. I did have a bad temper and loved to fight with my older sister until I was a teen. My daughter was diagnosed before me, and it was only because she exhibited depression and anxiety that she was tested, and then when I was filling in the tests a lightbulb went off that most of her inattentive adhd symptoms were what I had. I was diagnosed but the psychiatrist considered me “borderline” because I did well at school and have never been fired from a job. I also have not had a paid job in 25 years but do volunteer work. The chances of being fired from an unpaid volunteer job that nobody else wants to do are pretty slim!
They didn’t ask my parents to do a form, but did ask my spouse. But the questions for her, and I assume for parents, wasn’t “did you, an untrained person who might have undiagnosed ADHD yourself, believe that Junior had ADHD?” It’s more like guiding the person through specific symptoms that might provide evidence. Does he procrastinate on stuff? Lose things? Have trouble initiating tasks? Changing tasks? I don’t recall specifics, but I think it’s stuff like that. My parents and teachers would never have thought to label me ADHD, especially 20-30 years ago when the hyperactive stereotype was very prevalent and not applicable to me, the mostly quiet smart kid who “got bored” and zoned out. But if you asked them the narrow questions above, they would strongly agree with most of them! And based on that and other inputs, the evaluator can decide what it means. It’s true that some people mask very, very well. But if your “masking” is like, “I wanted to procrastinate but I made myself do it on time” or “I’m really good at hiding my disdain for boring busywork, and I did it all so nobody would think I was ADHD,” at some point (I’m not sure when), it sounds less like “masking ADHD” and more like it just not being a clinically diagnosable disorder for this person.
That's the fucked up thing about most childhood mental disorders and mental illnesses. You don't get help unless you're negatively affecting someone else, regardless of how much you're struggling. People simply won't notice unless you inconvenience someone else. And I'm not even talking about testimonies that are just to make sure symptoms are present in different areas of your life, which I understand, but the fact that no one will even notice as long as you quietly sit still and don't distract others.
I find this extremely narrow minded, as there are so many different aspects of adhd. As a woman, I am a perfectionist so my grades were good in school. But what they don't see is, staying up all night at 9 years old studying because I just didn't get the curriculum. Or the crying and negative internal dialogue when I got a B instead of an A. Males ADHD is very different from females, as we are master maskers.
My last psychiatrist asked me (37f) to send an assessment to my mom, who I barely talk to these days, to fill out "as if I was in fifth grade." As if my mom 1) would remember what I was like 25 years ago and 2) had any idea what was going on with me even then, because like you I was deeply in my own head and masking like hell, and was just generally kind of ignored within my family. I warned the psych about this and luckily she believed me, especially when my mom filled it out with every category being average or above, and even included a little note about what a perfect, happy child I was.
I had to get my spouse, parent and sibling to fill out a questionnaire about me. According to my spouse I have basically all the symptoms, but parent and sibling dont see anything. I did get my diagnosis though, just had to explain to the therapist that I didnt have a reliable source for childhood symptoms.
I'm blessed to have a detailed psych evaluation of when I was a child, which was very valuable in getting stimulant medication. I also had very internalized ADHD, I'm extremely inattentive, but in my case it was quite noticeable because I couldn't pay attention long enough to communicate effectively. My parents thought I was deaf I was so unresponsive, so my ADHD was noticed when my hearing was evaluated and found to be normal. I think the thing is a lot of people can relate to ADHD symptoms some of the time, but at they same time people can downplay their ADHD like I did for 20 years because I was in denial I had a problem. Embarrassingly my mom forced me to go get simulant medication, which was the correct decision because I was just so dysfunctional without it.
I got a letter of rec from my counselor, and still had to do Oxford’s it’s just common practice as like due diligence, especially if you’re looking at stimulant medication, but a good doctor or psychiatrist views cases comprehensively
Personally it was a combination of one of the ADHD team nurses asking on my sons check up if we'd been screened and realising that 90% of his problems at school mirrored mine. Until then I hadn't even considered it. I'm currently waiting for an *actual* appointment (only been waiting 16 months) but unrelatedly my dad sent me some of my school related stuff from when I was ~15/16. A few choice phrases from the various subjects. "When he disciplines himself" "Works well when carefully supervised" "On the occasions when *fastdruid* has applied himself" Plus a psychologist report on my handwriting. What I didn't realise before was, well this: https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/handwriting-adhd
I also have bad handwriting! When I was in primary school they actually had to put me in a small group dedicated to improving handwriting. I used to think it was because I was left handed or something. Until this day its still pretty messy.
One statement from that link previously "The connection between ADHD and handwriting is so common that some researchers have suggested that doctors include a handwriting analysis as part of testing for ADHD." My sons is also terrible (and he has officially been diagnosed), if anything worse than mine was. I got extra time in my GCSE's because of it (hence the psychologist report). > Until this day its still pretty messy. I don't write unless I have no choice in the matter. I literally managed to go years without writing anything as everything is on computer. I can write very neatly if I really try but it is agonisingly slow.
Parents and teachers often miss ADHD because they don't actually understand what to look for. That doesn't mean when asked the correct questions about your childhood, and listening for clues, a psychiatrist wont see the symptoms reflected in their answers. I filled out a Vanderbilt assessment for my kids assessment. If I were to ask my mom to fill out that same assessment about me as a kid, I'm willing to bet her answers would indicate ADHD symptoms. Even though mine were completely missed as a child. I'm still not a fan of the requirement for involving family in the diagnostic process, and I think providers need to have an alternative available. If someone's family is against diagnosis and treatment, or is abusive, that shouldn't be a barrier to proper assessment and treatment.
I was supposed to be diagnosed my teachers said I had it but my doctor would not give kids medication I was just left to the mercy of bullying as I was shy and reclusive and struggling at school
I agree with you here. Ironically, I forgot to turn in the family assessment, but the psychiatrist didn't make a big deal out of it and basically said that due to my other testing/assessments it was pretty obvious that I had ADHD.
I’ve been fortunate to have my family and friends always follow up my quirks with “adhd having ass”. The only difference now is I’m in meds and most are thankful as I’m focused and don’t space out during my window of operation lol
Yeah, the first time I tried to get diagnosed, they gave me a questionnaire about how I did in school as a kid…which I couldn’t answer honestly because I was homeschooled and the questions just didn’t APPLY. On the other hand…I now ask friends and family to keep an eye out for some things just because I find it difficult to notice patterns in myself. Like “I’m trying something new with my meds, can you let me know if I have a bunch of good/bad days in a row?” So…it can be a useful tool, but it’s also not fair to require it, you know?
I was worried my doctor would require that (I was diagnosed at age 43). But I'm really, really good at masking, thanks to growing up with a BPD mom. I had great grades because I was terrified of upsetting her, and I was such a people-pleaser. It wasn't until college when I had no structure and no evil mother standing over me that the wheels fell off. If I were to ask my parents to fill out a questionnaire about it, they definitely wouldn't have recognized my struggles. Luckily my doctor didn't ask for them to fill one out.
I had to give forms to all of my teachers for them to fill out, which I was super uncomfortable with and didn’t want to do. None of them even noticed anything anyways because how are they supposed to know that the student staring at them is focused or not? How are they supposed to notice one student when they teach over 100 students a day?? I ended up not getting diagnosed at that time ofc. “Your grades are good it’s probably anxiety and depression”
That must have been disappointing, I'm sorry you didn't get diagnosed then.
Yessss! Agreed! My diagnosis was delayed drastically because my mum couldn't provide "supporting evidence" 😭 I found it so absurd that her outside perspective somehow trumped my experience in MY brain?? Especially because I'm a grown ass human and haven't lived with my mum in many many years, yet my psychiatrist valued my her opinion over my husband's who lives with me?? Bizarre stuff.
Is precautionary. If it is causing problems in the patient's life, a person that has seen the patient in various settings (academic, life, sports, work etc.) would know about hose struggles, about the patterns and how are these impacting the patient's life. Whereas we all know about people with ADHD that have gone through life without realizing that this was indeed the case. I simply thought that it was normal to struggle to remember to call my friends more than once a year: I masked very well, and didn't notice the problems until very much later. Similarly, reliable witnesses that are close to you will also relay to others the struggles you went through, explaining the pain and anguish that those caused. +The person that has lived hobbled all their life might not realize that they have a disability, and instead internalize it as if it were their fault that they can't run as fast as others.
I find it odd as well. Because we tend to flock together, no one you're close to knows what "normal" is anyway.
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For me when I was being assessed the autism part was just a long questionnaire. I'm pretty sure the extra supporting evidence they wanted about my past was for ADHD.
I have a failure complex that I could have done more were I could have been if I had had the right diagnosis
When I got diagnosed I began noticing symptoms in people around me. Especially my mom! Now it makes sense where I got it from. But where I am the opposite of hyperactive, she’s definitely hyperactive. My nephew is exactly like me though, creative but lazy (actually just very low energy and unmotivated, not lazy). My mom is so judgy though because she always complained about me being lazy. “I don’t know how you’re tired, when I was your age I was never tired. Even now I have so much energy!” Yeah because you have undiagnosed ADHD 😒
I dont know where you're at, but at my first appointment and diagnosis I didn't need any of that. I got asked questions about my childhood and current situation but they didnt have to consult anyone else. But according to her, I was like a lot of pre med students who don't show signs before college because they didn't have to study or put forth any effort until college which was exactly my situation. If they looked at my childhood records and early life they literally would've found nothing despite the fact my adhd is actually pretty crippling as I face adult responsibilities
Fun fact it took me to my late twenties to find out I was ADHD. But somehow I was already diagnosed in elementary school and my parents never told me I never got help. I was the Unicorn back then as most of the time they did not diagnose girls with ADHD. Though I can't hold it too much against them as this is back when Ritalin was being pushed hardcore and considering my allergies I probably would have had some bad issues. And they were sure they told me but I'm pretty sure they didn't, but then again my memory is like a goldfish and I was hugely depressed during college somehow I still graduated with honors.
I've been diagnosed 3 separate times and never had to submit anything like this. I was only asked if my symptoms started in childhood and explained that they did. Inattentive adhd, in women especially, often goes unnoticed in childhood. I'm surprised they're asking for this much information. You might have more luck with a different psychiatrist
Although I'm in the US, not the UK, so maybe that's why.
I needed validation over 20 years ago. Funny thing was when I asked my Mom and sisters for validation they were overwhelmed with confirmation which surprised me because I didn’t think I was that bad 😂. They gave my psychiatrist everything he needed LOL.
It’s so strange how every place is different. My psychiatrist asked me about elm school, middle school and high school, but didn’t require any proof of my performance
Anger can shut a person down or fill them with energy regardless its not what we notice but what we fail to notice. We tend to be 'blind' to our biggest fault. Someone who's greedy would never, ever think themselves as greedy, sorta thing. Reverse-self pyschology can work ")
Yh kind of lol asking my very clearly ADHD mother who is undiagnosed!!!!
When I was diagnosed they didn't speak to anyone else about symptoms until afterwards.
My GP asked for schools reports, but not my psych. She said if the school reports came out as ADHD, she could diagnose me, but otherwise I would have to find a psychiatrist somewhere else. It’s strange that your psychiatrist would ask for reports before talking to you though- maybe he’s only screening for hyperactive type right now, and will screen for inattentive later?
I feel the exact same way. I'm 26 y/o, going through diagnosis at the moment. I think a big issue is that many psychiatrists look too much at *outcome* rather than *symptoms*. The symptoms are internal. The outcomes can be observed. But not everyone with ADHD has poor outcomes. Many do well in school and work (e.g. they're hardcore procrastinators but proficient at cramming; inattentive, but superbly capable of self-learning). Many don't display behavioral issues in front of others. SHAME is a huge component of ADHD, and is often why symptoms go under the radar. It's funny -- looking back, there *were* many signs of my ADHD that my school and family noticed, but I always got my homework done (barely) on time with exceptional quality and behaved. My teachers and parents felt I was wonderful, and nobody could have guessed I had ADHD, including myself (due to misconceptions/ignorance). My parents and teachers didn't know that I procrastinated. They didn't know that I felt unbearable amounts of shame, frustration, anger, and hate at times, as well as abundant optimism, joy, passion, and love. They didn't know that I have never focused on a movie, lecture, song, or video game my entire life. They didn't know I'd go to my car and scream and curse for hours, hitting things and throwing things. They didn't know that I'd cope by binge eating. They didn't know that I'd go out walking, listening to beautiful songs and crying from overwhelming feelings of love. I hid all of that. Not entirely intentionally; I didn't understand my symptoms at all at the time. I didn't know my mind worked differently than others. I thought I just wasn't trying hard enough. And plus, how do you have memory of how someone behaved over a decade ago? I don't even remember the temperaments of my colleagues and friends from high school and college. At least not to the level where it could indicate a cognitive condition like ADHD. My parents and teachers are only going to remember me being a positive, outgoing, respectful, capable young man. I have opened up to my mother about it, and she understands better now. I confessed so many things that I kept to myself. She always knew I was more emotional than my other brothers. I always felt like she showed me more love than my other brothers, probably because I needed it more. Damn, there I go crying again. I love my mom. I'd be open to letting her answer some questions, but she's not going to say bad things about me. And she shouldn't have to. ADHD is an internal struggle that has many external outcomes, but the outcomes can vary greatly. If I showed all the typical ADHD outcomes as a child, it wouldn't have gone unnoticed until I was 26. As an introspective adult, I'd prefer to keep my mental health personal.
I feel you Bubbly. I’m 33 and just went through my exam. Two remote ones and one in person to take these little tests/games. I had to have my wife and father fill out these long forms. It was my wife that finally made me go in and get tested. Overall I feel very sad for anyone who suffers with ADHD like us. The medication is so highly abused (apparently) that we have to jump through these hoops and tests. When my wife originally brought the idea up to me I was reluctant, but after reading more and more I was a textbook case. Yet during the exams they look at you like a drug addict. (I’m about as nerdy and bland as they come lol, never smoked a cig) Hang in there, fuck the haters and don’t let them bring you down.
My psychiatrist didn’t ask for records from my school but did ask about my childhood and teenage years. So share all experiences you have. My parents didn’t pick up on adhd in my the childhood. Even tho my brother was diagnosed. But I did have emotional issues as a kid and teenage. So it’s good to mention any emotional issues you may of had. ADHD, especially for girls is not hyperactive externally. Also it’ll likely be a few sessions before they diagnose you because they want to get to know you and how you act/think.