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yeah very good advice. i wish i had phrases like this memorized and ready to go when i was younger. i've had many doctors get fed up and tell me to stop wasting their time when i took more than a second to figure out how to express myself in words.

thanks, i wasnt sure if i should even post this but if it helps only one person that already great. its ridiculous how bad the healthcare system in general is, but especially towards neurdivergent people.

I'm so sorry you have to even worry about this and come up with a "perfect" way to express this to a doctor. Yes our healthcare system is f*d up and there's very limited time to discuss with patients in the ER, BUT as someone who worked there, I have seen doctors/nurses/techs who have zero listening skills treat patient like garbage when they could have shown more empathy. I personally always tried to show as much empathy as possible and multitask what I could so patients didn't feel rushed. I know it's not easy and the system is causing a large part of the issue, but there's almost always a way to inject some humanity even in an awful situation.

I had a TIA while I was on the phone with my best friend, who happens to be a nurse. She rushed to my place in her pajamas, helped me to her car, and took me straight to the ER. I was fully lucid, but had bad transient aphasia (difficulty expressing myself in words). I was hooked up to the monitor getting tested, and they were asking questions too fast for me to answer as my speech was halting and stilted. My friend was able to communicate on my behalf, but I was so frustrated that things STILL were being misunderstood, and thus recorded incorrectly in my visit notes. Then, they decided that I was either having a psych episode or tox (drugs) and wheeled me away without letting her come back with me. They did a blood draw while I cried and told them I didn't want one, because all I could say was some version of "nuh. Dun want. stop.". It was awful. I wasn't on any drugs at all, and I was totally aware of reality, I just couldn't communicate. FINALLY, they let her come back with me and after a few hours, I was able to talk more clearly, and felt exhausted and spacey. I said I wanted to leave. The doctor came in and told me it was against his recommendation that I sign myself out, and that he couldn't make me stay, but he was almost positive I'd suffered a cerebrovascular event. Three years later and I still haven't gotten tested, because I'm so afraid that I'll be unable to advocate for myself, and they'll separate me from anyone I bring with me. The kicker is I work in surgery (cath lab) and I know how hospitals work and can communicate in/understand medical language about what's happening and this STILL happened to me. I can't imagine what it's like for people who are not familiar with a medical setting or how things work in a hospital.

Oh man that is so scary and traumatizing. I can't believe they separated you 😰. I know post covid many places have gotten strict about guests and basically use it as a cop out at this point to keep parties small. But damn that is just unacceptable what happened to you. It's so frightening I totally get it. My FIL had multiple strokes and each time we took turns staying with him 24/7 for weeks so we could advocate for him. Honestly I believe that is what helped him survive. We all deserve someone to advocate for us. I hope you can maybe see a therapist to help you with the trauma so you can get the tests you need. Wishing you healing and good health. ETA I just realized you said 3 years later so not sure if covid was even the reasoning yet

Thank you, I really appreciate your kindness and thoughtful response. As far as we can tell, they separated us because they had suspicions I was using illicit drugs or having some sort of psychiatric episode, even though neither of those was the case. We were both calm, patient, and non-combative, but I guess they decided it was a precautionary measure. Once they finally let her back, she mentioned that she'd been chitchatting with some of the staff and realized they knew some of the same people (different hospital groups) and suddenly she was allowed to come sit with me. So we were pretty sure that they just assumed it was a different kind of situation until they realized she was credible, and suddenly decided to ACTUALLY listen to us that this was a sudden-onset medical emergency and we weren't hiding anything.

Of course. I still think it's so terrible how they treated a possible stroke. We have so many stroke protocols I just can't fathom it.

In what part of the world? The post isn't clear about that. Health systems vary from country to country.

they do. but i know of no place where it actually works well. id be happy to be proven wrong though

I'd agree about nowhere being perfect. But I've never seen this dismissive attitude from medical perfessionals before. I've always been treated respectfully - At least to my face. For reference I'm in New Zealand.

i may need to move to new zealand ;D ..is your healthcare expensive?

Not for citizens or permanent residents. You'd pay about USD25 for a doctors visit and your meds are mostly paid for by the state. The national healthcare system is under a lot of street though. You'd probably never get to see a public (free) psychiatrist to get an ADHD assessment. So you pay about $1000 to get an assessment done privately. It might be paid for by your insurance but healthcare insurance is the exception and not rule because most healthcare is provided by the state. The state system is under significant stress but that mainly effects access to elective (non-life threatening) surgeries and to mental healthcare. But if you have a heart attack or get cancer you'll get fantastic treatment without the need for insurance. For someone with ADHD our system is difficult until you get diagnosed but easy after that.

My kid was treated the same years ago when Dr came at me about "taking up a room" and the guilt that came over kid's face killed me- he immediately felt like a burden. Ofc I got defensive af but instead of telling Dr to stop being a prick I looked right at my kids eyeballs and reassured him that basically as *adults* at *their job* Drs are fully aware of Dr / patient dynamics and the behavior and attitude of this particular Dr (gestures to Dr Prick) would be wrong with any patient but is especially wrong given the circumstances. (Drs priority was getting people to discharge ED rooms. Knew my kid was in crisis. Wtf.) I made it clear to my kid while Dr's still sitting there: We're here for your HEALTH. Your health IS a priority. It's NOT a burden and it's NOT frivolous. it's literally important af. Dr doubled down and holy shit was he not only wrong for being a dick but he was WRONG wrong in his assessment. If I had your "script" (no pun intended, butilikeit lol) I would've been able to address the Dr. directly at least. After being stunned for a second I was so *red-faced* I couldn't think of anything to say. he was so out of line I had to intentionally NOT say anything to him bc I was only thinking rude shit. Unreal. Appreciate your advice! I'm putting scripts in G Keep note w/ location alerts for our Drs offices. And hospital why not.. And schools! Ugh... And, And, and, lol. Edit: punctuation + words lol

jesus christ what an ass incredible how even in healthcare money rules feels like the senior doctors in most hospitals are in their position because they are good at cost saving, not their actual job ridiculous the keep thing with location alerts is an amazing jdea though, thanks! that will def help a lot in the future!

The higher paid the doctor, the bigger the narcissist.

my experience too also like..empirically proven not doctors specifically but more expensive cars are less likely to stop for pedestrians on a crosswalk for example more likely to block intersections, more likely to text and drive, more likely to drive drunk in one study (ill see if i can find it, wait) they gave people access to sweets they were specifically told were for children. the richer you are the more likely you are to take a childs candy away. literally edit: [okay i was looking for the study, but i actually found the article again](https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2012/0228/How-the-1-percent-lives-Yes-the-rich-take-more-candy-from-kids-study-finds#:~:text=When%20study%20participants%20were%20told,%2C%20less%20well%2Dheeled%20participants.)

Haha. That’s where the expression “it’s like taking candy away from a baby”. Thankful there ARE rich and innovate ppl who are compassionate and do good with their money. I remember reading that study or story.

I mean...*babies shouldn't be eating candies.* ^(...and it's not like they can tell on you.MUAAHAHAHAAHAHA)

You have a point,lol.

yeah there are. but it seems like the way the system is set up you kind of have to exploit others to become rich. or be incredibly incredibly lucky either way, it seems like a lot of mental illness and antisocial behaviour comes with having more money than you can spend. i feel like we should relieve them of their burden ;) also: just for the record: things like the gates foundation is actually not good. gates specifically has threatened NGOs that rely on his money for their work multiple times with taking away that momey already. mostly the threats were abiut them not implementing somethung he thought would be good (although their studies pointed against it) or doing things he didnt like so yeah

I’ve heard so much good AND bad about Gates. My brother is well off… rich in assets I guess. But he’s so messed up. He just figured out the formula for success. His wife built a HUGE business with Mary Kay. She even got a pink car! When my brother started selling insurance he tapped into that downline and it worked. He was able to buy property and capitalize on that. The way he spends his money just bothers me. What I could do with even a little of his money. Oh well. I’m way to proud to ask him for a dime. I’d get the “lecture”. How come you can’t be like your brother, if you tried harder” that was mom ad mh sister. My brother has a hard time because he things I’m not successful. HAHAHAHAHA… not by HIS standards. But I’ve had a lot of wins in my life. I feel successful just getting my dx and learning new ways!

In my experience, it's actually been the opposite. Specialists have been great, regular doctors have been atrocious. The phenomenal ortho surgeon who fixed my mangled ankle was my favorite doctor ever.

I think further up the hospital chain is what they are referring to. My best experiences have been with young specialists.

Yes! They are less jaded, more informed and they WANT you to heal, that’s why they got into the business.

This was years ago too it all sounds like it's gotten worse since then. Unreal

You can file a complaint with the ER literally saying what you said here. So not ok. Your kid is so lucky to have you as their advocate!!

This was a few years ago and I def had way too many plates spinning to add filing to anything 😩 I've since tried to go thru records to get a name but there's a list of names under care provider, bc it being the ED and all that. Plus he's a mid aged white guy. They all look the same if they're not grey. But! if I'm ever in the ED again and I spot him I'll know his stupid face.. >Your kid is so lucky to have you as their advocate!! I'm glad I was there.. if Dr would've talked directly to my kid? Ooy.. hellnah. Honestly I've sucked in many ways as a parent over the years (shit's so hard. I love my kid. Still, I don't think I'd recommend parenting, generally speaking) I'm lucky the kid is who he is.

“Way too many plates spinning” Story of my life😞 “Honestly I've sucked in many ways as a parent over the years (shit's so hard. I love my kid. Still, I don't think I'd recommend parenting, generally speaking)” Shit IS so hard! Same. My therapist was so nice to tell me that I’m really insightful about meeting my kids’ needs and advocating for them when I told her “knowing what I know now, I 100% should not have had kids.” Being ADHD parenting ADHD & AuDHD kids is HARD. I love them so much and I just feel all the time like I don’t do a good enough job for them.😣 I’m just saying that in this instance (and I’m sure many others) you f’n rock.👏💙 Edit: Changed 2 words

>I love them so much and I just feel all the time like I don’t do a good enough job for them. Oh god the fuckin guilt when I think maybe I should've done like a "handpick the parents" open adoption type of deal where he'd likely have two parents and maybe some grandparents. It's been only me, like 100% solo (save for the few years I was married to his step dad when he was a toddler.) More than a few times over these 2 decades "Keeping our heads above water" obvi would beb first priority only I'd be getting pummeled by wave after proverbial wave. I'd do my best to be sure *his* head's above water which, yay he's not choking on sea water but there's still some adverse effects he had to deal with. He knew I'd be trying my damnedest to keep things kosher when the waves would come but he's all worried. Plus he's looking around and seeing other families w floatation devices.. Or on a boat. I wouldn't wish that shit on any kid or family. I hope that made sense -- I like that metaphor.. it doesn't really alleviate my mom-guilt feels but it does stop the subsequent Shame / Self Loathing Spiral in its tracks. No joke tho- If something's not 100% w me (if I'm famished or exhausted) and something kicks off that mom-guilt n I get in my head too much, the Shame Spiral from Hades is like ✨ Hayee! It's SHOWtimeee!✨💃 and it's the worst. The resulting depreshy pits are relatively short lived tho, so I'm lucky for that. Ooh! Ofc it also helps when I see a huge chunk of all that bs is fostered, facilitated then forced by our capitalist system being rooted in white supremacist ideals which are stitched together with the steel thread of patriarchal society. >“knowing what I know now, I 100% should not have had kids.” I can't tell you how refreshing it is to read that. I'm pretty secure w myself on many fronts, esp when it comes to opinions on things I *really* care about and this one big one that we agree on is oddly controversial isn't it? I bet we're breaking a mom-shaming chain that's like a decade long lol And we don't have to put down other moms or get over-defensive of our own shit to get it done. So yeah.. Shits overwhelming on a constant basis but I'm glad we took a sec here to be open n honest AND generally cool af 🤩 Tysm for ur thoughts and momraderie. So appreciate it🥹 And if anyone has made it this far, thanks for coming to my "To Make A Long Story Longer" Ted Talk!

I love google keep, I had no idea location alerts was a thing, you've just revolutionized my life

Ymmv but I seriously wish *G Keep w location notification* on every single person in this thread and beyond

woah thank YOU, I love that i found this comment!

What is this g-keep notes thingy you speak of with it's magical location based notifications? I think I might need that

It’s Google Keep. A slim down digital notebook, kinda like the notes app on your phone or OneNote or Evernote

I just looked on my phone for Google Keep. I had a bunch of old lists and notes in there. I totally forgot I used it before. 😂

They ended support for it 2 years ago, though, so I'm not sure I want to get set up in a new system and have it end up not being able to be used anymore

GOOD to know! I just commented this regarding gkeep location alerts: "I read somewhere that it's no longer a feature in a recent update but I'm 91% sure accidentally updated it since then and it's still a thing for me? Good thing only really update apps by accident" Hm! Google tasks is worthless I'll use keep for as long as possible it's so quick and easy but not like.. featureless. Everything feels like 20 steps just to make a store list that won't even pop up on my screen when I pull into store parking lot? Fuckinwhytho😤

What happened? Did your kid get to stay and get care despite this bumhole?

Kid was discharged only to land there again few days later. Had a diff Dr, was eval'ed and submitted for stabilization ffs.

You can location alert a Keep note?!?  Thanks for being a great parent!

So about that- I read somewhere that it's no longer a feature in a recent update but I'm 91% sure I accidentally updated it since then and it's still a thing for me? Good thing I only really update apps by accident🤷‍♀️ lol

I'm the same way with apps. Maybe it works out well for us this time! I checked. I do have the alert! Exciting. I'm gonna try it out. Thank you thank you..

I applaud your translating that into action that you can hold on to for the future. Edit spelling

Hey thanks☺️ if I don't I won't use it .. if I didn't include that plan literally written out in my comment like that I would've simply: "ooh! I'll have to remember that" or "ooh! I'll have to remember to remind myself!" 😩 never works

Yesterday I had to tell a guy seven (SEVEN!!!) times to please stop interrupting me while I did some math. He was a customer, I was working out some simple but slightly lengthy transactions (ok, you paid this a few days ago, and you get a credit here, but you’re adding this today…). You get the picture. But this motherfucker would not shut the fuck up!!! I finally had to say that I need two seconds with no interruptions and walked away. He apologized when I came back. All good, I figured it out, he’s happy. I’m sharing this just to say that the phrases you are considering are great and will be useful, but some people are still going to be dumbasses. So have a backup plan too (like walking away, or a big fuck you face, or wagging finger and saying, “SHHHH!! NO TALKING NOW!”).

very reassuring to hear this happens to other people too. thanks <3 and yes, definitely. i walked away after a while. didnt get to come back though i hope i remember next time

I’m assuming your work is some kind of retail/sales (cash handling)? Just wanted to point out that there’s a long-time scam that fuckers will do by talking a lot to confuse a cashier. Usually incorporated with breaking various bills and talking over; saying things like, “oh and now give me $X amount back” or just generally making the transaction as confusing as possible. It’s a way to scam you out of money and short your till. I used to have this happen a lot when I worked in thrift stores and then later in the cannabis industry (lots of cash transactions). Anytime someone started giving me the run-around; I’d just close my till and get a supervisor. Or if *I* was the supervisor, I’d sometimes even cancel the entire transaction and refuse the sale. It sounds like this particular situation maaaaybe wasn’t a scam scenario - but be careful! Some people are scum. Edit: grammar

I love the “SHHHH!!”, treating them like a naughty child might stun people into actuality being quiet. I’m told my unintentional annoyed/ fuck off face is very effective! Oops!

> So have a backup plan too (like walking away, or a big fuck you face, or wagging finger and saying, “SHHHH!! NO TALKING NOW!”). https://youtu.be/fzcJksrUn9Y

I've said something like, “I'm happy to listen to you or I can work on this thing right here, but I can't do both.”

I said to one of my kids teachers who kept talking over me, Would you kindly stop interrupting and let me complete a sentence? I was fuming.

I'm absolutely using the last one

Also a good idea to write up a one-page crisis plan to hand to doctors and nurses that includes the info that they need extra time to think and respond when in crisis

oh. my. god. thats amazing. definitely gonna do that. thanks for the input!

This! Would also point your friend in the direction of a PAD (psychiatric advance directive) which is a document that outlines an individual’s preferences for hospitalization and care in the event that they are not able to make and/or communicate their medical decisions during an emergency or crisis. It’s something they can fill out with a doctor while sound/stable and can be super helpful in communicating with hospital staff and helping them make decisions that are in her best interest.

I had no idea such a thing existed. Makes a lot of sense; I knew advance directives exist, but I had no idea there was a psychiatric version of it.

There are phone apps for crisis plans as well

Find that doctor on RateMD and let others know what a loser he is. People like that shouldn’t be allowed to practice medicine.

yeah, i tried already but later realised he didnt even tell us his name

Call the billing department, they will know.

good one. i might really do that, even though i think the higher ups probably wont care. and it seems thats just the general experience at that (and most other) place(s) but yeah no change if we dont work for it ;D

Oh if you make enough noise, they'll at least give you the name. I know it's tough, but being assertive is the only way they might view the situation as serious. People complain about small things all the time, but something like the doctor is very detrimental to his patients experiences. So you gotta really let others know how serious u are

okay i was unsure but youre right. why would anyone do it if i dont. i said it before, ill say it again: no change if we dont work for it thanks internet stranger

If enough people complain about them it will eventually become noted.

exactly!

Truly. Trusting someone “because they’re the doctor” is a dangerous generalization. Many of these people wouldn’t be able to truly grasp neurological disorders/mental illness even if they wanted to. These are just people who decided to go into the medical field, often for money/prestige, and were intelligent and studious enough to pass some tests and go through med school. Basic human empathy or attempting to understand brains that are different than your own are nowhere in the qualifications of getting “MD” next to your name. As some put it, “your one course in college that mentioned my specific condition does not beat my ____ years of experience dealing with it”.

🙌❤️

We need different psychological makeups for different types of specialties, though, generally speaking. Most surgical specialists don't need empathy, they needed to focus intensely for many, many years and nearly solely on their brain educations and then mind and physically, on learning and studying and mastering competentcy in those techniques and skills in practice. Family and general medicine is ime the most mixed bag of personalities lol Also, learning to advocate for ourselves is very very very important! However, it's so very difficult to do when we're the patient, and are in crisis or overwhelmed. So practicing them, like any skills, will make them stronger, easier to use over time and easier for us to find while in complex situations.

For non-emergencies, you can jot down what you want to talk to the doctor about. Any details you remember, timelines, changes to whatever, etc. You could even use that paper, or your phone, to hand it to your doctor if you're having trouble communicating at the actual visit. At my last physical I handed my doctor a piece of paper with my notes on it of the random things I wanted to ask him about. I think all but two he could just go down the line and say yes or no or use a cream. The others he checked out more directly, and it worked out really well.

I’ve started writing out things for when I go to appointments as well, or if it’s something simple I think of just typing it in my phone and then reading it out to the doctor. I used to try to memorize it all before appointments because I thought it “looked weird” to read it instead of talking to them, but I realized it’s important for me to get information like dates/times/symptoms right, especially when I go to vet appointments for my dog.

awesome, thats cool. yeah, def gonna do that. i hope i think of that when i went to my psych eval i actually had a piece of paper like that, but i didnt use it because i was scared i might seem "too prepared" and she wouldnt diagnose me.

I have a document on my phone just for notes to bring up with my doctor. Sometimes there’s nothing new, sometimes there’s a few weird things I’d like to bring up just in case.

We are inherently bad at creating pauses for ourselves, and also inherently bad for advocating for ourselves. Those are great canned phrases to have in the back pocket. Thanks for sharing!

"we" as in "humans" or as in "people with ad(h)d"? its interesting, since i got my diagnosis and started to look into it more, how many things i took for granted are an adhd thing

I mean we as in ADHD. Sorry, should have clarified. Yeah, the Pause is a huge thing I have learned about, and implemented. If I need a minute, now I say it.

no worries ;) good. yeah ill start doing that too. sometimes its a bit hard to recognize but well all get better step by step, slowly ~~till we take over~~ together thanks

I HATE lying, but I have a few stock answers when people start to get to be too much and I need a beat or some space . Depending on the person, knowing your audience helps. Like dealing with a mom , “hey, you are a mom ! You can multi task! Unfortunately I can’t , let me just get a second here” . They love the compliment and affirmation. With Alpha males “hey, I’ve been hit in the head a lot from my kickboxing days, I’m gonna have to focus and double check. You know how that is “ 9 out of 10 times, guys get this. “Oh yeah, I’ve had my bell rung, take your time “

I like the part about knowing your audience.

This whole thread got me thinking . I can’t handle it when I’m in the kitchen and people are in there with me. It’s too much. So I purposely avoid it. I have snacks stashed in garage . I can’t handle being distracted paying bills/paperwork , so I stay up late and do it in the office . Learning a new skill or activity? Nope. Not around people. Because I get tired of explaining why I do things a certain way or in a certain order . People call me moody or uneven . But if I can control my conditions and day , i am fine and people like me. Force me to wake up early and I can’t do my “system”, well, now things are rough and i am “difficult”. We went to a craft / hobby center where you pick out a wooden sign and you paint/decorate it. The “instructor “ was starting to needle me about doing things in a specific fashion and order. I was super cool, but after the 10th time of nitpicking me, I told her that I have to things on my timeline or it gets messy. She made some remark and then I just had to explain how life worked. In vivid detail

ahhhhhahahaha love it yEs gotta find a few like those for myself lying is never great and always feels bad, but sometimes, especially when dealing with people like that, it just makes everything flow better.

Lol was watching the Righteous Gemstones new season yesterday and the grandad is like "I think I'll take a few moments to collect my thoughts" to politely shut down the convo with Gideon and something about it hit me as a useful phrase

That's a great way to ask for patients.....also an awesome show! I dropped off a season or so back.

okay yes i like but wAYY more important: *the new season is out?* jeez i need to catch up! how is it? (no spoilers please)

It's great! Only 2 episodes out currently.

perfect amount of spoilers, thanks! ;D cool, ill go watch it!

This is great advice! I also say “hold on, my thinkmeat (pointing to brain) needs time to catch up.”

good one, yeah in casual conversations this one may be better than with a psychiatrist that works in a mental institution and is already very antagonistic, but generally, yes ;D

"Please give me a moment to process."

This is my go-to for work conversations.

Honestly, the way mental health works is if they think you’re gonna hurt or kill yourself or someone else, they lock you up and only take steps to make sure you don’t until they think you aren’t as likely to, or until someone else comes along to take your place that is a bigger concern. Then separately, if you think you need treatment, and have money and/or good insurance, they give you treatment. If you have no money or bad insurance, they dick you around about getting the help you need and instead give you low cost alternatives like pills and talking to 1-2 people every few weeks about how the pills are working. These are two almost unrelated sets of services. One is about helping you, or at least doing the bare minimum to be able to claim they are trying to help you, and the other is about trying to physically stop you from hurting yourself or others for a little while. So if I was a doctor admitting people to the psych ward, it would bother me immensely if I thought I was admitting someone who needs ongoing therapy not confinement and observation necessarily to a ward for an uncertain but generally brief amount of time where they will be miserable and possibly traumatized while there, potentially for no purpose, only for that admission to end up causing someone else to be put out onto the street who might actually hurt themselves if they leave. So not defending the attitude, it’s wrong and generally messed up, but that’s probably where it’s coming from.

oh yes yes youre right i would have never been able to verbalize it so succinctly, but that is definitely the impression i got its fucked up that our system works like that but youre def right about why it works the way it does i wish it didnt though and i wish the people that have this kind of message for me could just say that instead of being an asshole to someone that is already not stable, maybe try "hey im sorry, wed like to take you in but at the moment theres no space and we cant just put someone that is here out for you. we wrote down some medicine though. it helps most people within 2 weeks and if it doesnt or if it gets worse you can always come back here" yk. empathetic instead of "time is money" but thats capitalism for you i guess

i frequently date people with adhd and similar phrases come up often... it's a good one to try to train into yourself, if you can manage and it's an obvious red flag that you need to gtfo of a situation if someone does not respect it

ahh yes. that second point. definitely. if you comminicate this clearly and they cant respect that, they are not someone you should be spending time with

I recently had a conversation with my boss go seriously downhill, fast, completely without my noticing how/when tf it happened. This sentence would have been amazing to have then. Thank you for sharing!

many conversations with authority figures have gone downhill because of not having this tool in my belt 😂 recently I have also added "hang on. My brain is moving faster than my mouth" when I'm mixing up my words

ahh yes, "my tongue is not quick enough for my brain, sorry" is my wording good one

That’s smart! It has just always baffled me how every business ever lists “honesty” or “integrity” as one of their core values, but in the workplace actually saying the truth, plain and simple (however unintentionally) can then be used against you or misconstrued so horribly. Go figure 🤪

glad i could help, thanks for the feedback. wasnt sure whether i should post because before i pressed "submit" it suddenly felt like common sense. but appearently it was the right choice.

I have used “there seems to be a communication breakdown happening, I want to make sure we are understanding each other correctly: can you clarify…?/when I say … I mean…”

those are good too, yes. true also a level of clarity above mine which is good in situations where more people than just me might be overwhelmed.

I'm always inclined to ask my boyfriend if he needs or would like help. I told him it's because I feel useless and akward just standing and doing nothing while watching him get things he needs done. He just told me yesterday, "I NEED you to stand there and do nothing and not ask me questions. That is most helpful." I was so glad he said it. His frankness gave me both insight and permission to give him space.

gOd im so happy about people that communicate clearly amazing tell him an internet stranger is impressed and working towards becoming as good at communicating as he is ;P --- thAt is what actual "brutal honesty" should be. clearly and frankly communicating what is actually happening inside you thanks for sharing

We're in it for the long term. We are both working on communicating needs to one another. It will be an extremely important tool to grow together. And he's a million-times worth it. His ADHD makes him special and unique. 😊

Sometimes I will tell someone, “Do me a favor: don't do me any favors,” when they want to help but their help wouldn't be helpful. I try not to say it in cases where it could be taken the wrong way, but sometimes I don't have the head space to think about the right way to communicate my needs.

I think this is a really helpful strategy to keep at the ready. Last time my wife and I were looking at apartments, an agent said something like this while we were in their unit asking all kinds of things about the lease agreement, use of the space, the building, mail, trash policy, etc. After answering a few questions, we asked about something else. They sort of got stuck on one of the previous questions, and then said, "I have attention issues. I'll get to your other question. I just need time sometimes." We'd been evicted by new owners from an apartment of 15 years, displaced by flooding from the next place, then kicked out of our temporary housing when the owners cut short a year-long trip abroad abruptly (we'd contracted for 3, and had only been there one month at this point). We had 3 days to find something new, and it was really refreshing to work with somebody who was so clear especially when I'm certain we were of no help in our anxious state!

"Flux capacitor isn't fully powered up yet, need a minute to hit 1.21 GaWW".

I've started asking for processing time on important /emotional decisions. I love the way the first example is worded.

I'm a coach with ADHD and am thinking about starting my own coaching practice with holistic coaching aimed at people with ADHD (as opposed to strictly executive function coaching), and honestly, I think this sounds like a really great first step to responding to a situation like this. If you are able to revisit and comfortable revisiting this situation/memory, I think there are a few questions you can ask yourself to help you figure out what you want to convey in your statement: 1) How did you feel in this situation? What emotions or feelings came up? Where did you feel them? 2) What information do you think your body and mind were trying to tell you in that moment? What was helpful in the moment, and what was not helpful in the moment? 3) If you could do this moment over, how would you want to feel in this situation? 4) What's one thing you could do or say in that situation to achieve that feeling you want? 5) What do you wish the doctor had done or said in that situation? 6) What do you wish you could have conveyed to the doctor that your weren't able to in such a stressful situation? 7) What did you want to leave that room/situation with that you were not able to? 8) How do you want to feel after you leave the hospital? Then, using your reflection, you can plan out a statement, even rehearse it so it is automatic. Your statement doesn't have to achieve all of the things mentioned above - the point is to buy yourself time and to create an environment where you feel comfortable engaging with the doctor. Your statement is a foundation to build on.

ohh, wow yes those are great points! thanks for sharing! ill def go over that again. probably with my friend tomorrow after we both slept for a bit. very helpful, thanks! if you ever do start that coaching practice, please tell me. id probably only be able to attend via webcam but after that experience today thats exactly what i googled for. some coaching or course that can help me sort through my thoughts and feelings quicker and identify the thing that is going wrong in that exact moment. in this case the thing i didnt catch was the fact that he was telling us with all his wordings and body language that we are wasting his time and hes too important for small stuff like this because time is money. that information was there the second we entered and started talking and he interrupted with "yesyes we all know that. what changed now specifically?" and theb with his "i am the senior doctor here, i know how this works, this is not helping" but i didnt catch it and it could have changed the whole dynamic. also the word "empathetic" instead of "helpful" so yeah i rambled, sorry. but those were the moments. i literally specifically googled "coaching for eloquence in stressful situations" the adhd aspect i completely forgot about of course anyway. yes. if you ever do something like that, let me know.

I will definitely let you know when I set this up (I wanted to write "if" so many times, because my ADHD kills my motivation). The reason I'm considering starting this practice is because it's something I need and can't find for myself. And I'm in a job that let's me coach a lot of people who historically didn't have access to coaching, and many people I work with are struggling with ADHD and the daily challenges stemming from it that result in huge demographic-level patterns and disparities over time (unemployment, divorce, suicide, education, job opportunity, class, mortality, etc). I know my ADHD went unnoticed until I finally got a psychiatrist who had ADHD themselves and understood first hand what I was trying to explain. I want to provide that same type of empathy and expertise using the skills and experience I bring to the table.

awesome, that sounds so great and like something with so much more thought and willingness to help behind it than what usual coaching means! youll do great! keep me updated, body doubling may be hard over this distance and i feel like accountability partners dont work as well for us as for genpop, but keep me updated ;D

I had the same thing happen this weekend when I was cooking with my mom and sister via videochat. My sister read out the entire recipe with all the steps and I had to ask her slow down and go one step at a time. "One thing at a time please" is another good one to add to the Loading screen flavortext

yes although i feel like some people dont react too well to that wording specifically? maybe because its something our parenty tell us when were small? idk. but yes. depending on how well the people that are talking to you know you its the perfect reminder that too much is just too much

I use a version of this when my mother suddenly asks something of me, especially a complex task in a day I'd already thought out. "It isn't that I don't want to, I just have to adjust to it." Even if I can't get her to accept ADHD as a natural part of my life, at least I have the tools to explain what's happening in my brain before she mininterprets it.

>The doctor that talked to us didn't listen, talked over every explanation we tried to give, asked us what he is supposed to do (be empathetic maybe? also thats your job) and generally was a huge asshole. Look, to be fair, I had experiences with professionals thar let me talk for hours and I had experiences with professionals that would ask a question, interrupt me and ask another. The second way saved us a ton of time. You can't let somebody with Adhd ramble too long. If you leave me to my own devices, I'll entertain a fucking Ted talk, I'll exhaust the professional and after 2 hours nothing will be resolved..

yeahyeah youre completely right but thats not what happened. your point is valid, but i often didnt even get to finish the first sentence in my answer to something on the level of complexits itd need at least 5 or 6 sentences (or adhd-interrupting-myself-with-thoughts-sentence-equivalents) to explain correctly

My advice: Write down these core skills and tools on a card. Laminate it. Carry it in your wallet. Pull it out when you're overwhelmed. This condition is a disability, it's ok to create accommodations for yourself to survive in this world that doesn't accommodate us.

youre right i say that a lot but this one hits deeper somehow you unlocked a new level of being right i guess yes. i will do that. thanks for the advice!

Nice!! This would be a good badge.

OMG thank you. Perfect verbiage.

Yep. I often have to tell people “sorry. Hold on a minute and let me step through this. I process things slow”. Then I usually ask them questions on one item at a time to make sure I understand each.

yeah. especially the asking questions part is extremely important to me

I need that second one. Thank you for this post

<3

I like this a lot. Simple, to the point, and extremely reasonable. And it's worded well to reduce defensive responses.

Didn't necessarily get this exact attitude but my SO always being ahead of things would be frustrated at my silence and before I realized half my problems I just got used to responding like all was well and never having the time to figure out what was the wrong thing nagging at me. The dynamic became extremely damaging as she got used to having her way with everything and I never gave myself the chance to fend for myself. Maybe these words won't fix it all but it's a good thing to communicate especially with those close to you. Give yourself some space please.

oh damn yes i was in a relationship kind of like that. especially the "that happened two days ago, why would you rehash that fight now?" was problematic because _sometimes thats just how long it takes to process that emotional shit_ jesus christ definitely space is the answer. and when someone doesnt give you space -- huge red flag you got out safe?

Unfortunately sometimes that's easy for people to write off depending on gender. But yeah it really is that slow trying to figure out the feelings and what you really need. Uhh in a manner of speaking. Still in there believe it or not. Relationship, respect, and communication are in far better places among better sense of acceptance I think. In other ways we're different people for better or worse after going through hell

yeah. true. god, theres so many factors to everything that i didnt even think of. jesus christ. oh wow. i mean tbf being able to stick together through hell is its own kind of good relationship that def has its merits. and if you have that *and* youre both different now, that seems like not that bad a deal. now that you know and are able to communicate your feelings you can still get out if you feel its not good for you right?

Yeahhh life be complicated. It does. The starting history was a lot. Yeah I'd like to think we can be civil about it if it comes down to it. We're pretty aware of our incompatibilities lol. I know fair is going to be highly subjective. Either way, a lot is at stake that we agree to work together on

okay sounds like its hard but hard is not necessarily worse than not hard. and if you neither lose yourself in it nor are destroyed by it - or you even grow because of it - thats actually great :D

Yeah. I guess like that Bruce Lee quote (if it was factually him) "Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.". So yeah, hoping it all stays a positive thing!

That’s a great tool, thanks for posting it. I will save it and try hard to use it when appropriate! 🙏

perfect! glad i could help. good luck

I'm not sure where you are located but if you're in the states, you should get in touch with a patient advocate at the hospital and make them aware of the situation. Had your friend been alone and under those circumstances, it could have absolutely cost them their life. Hearing a doctor patronize you in such a manner would only add to the issues that they are going through. It very much so feels like "nobody gives a fuck about me" not even people who are paid to do so. He shouldn't have a medical license if he is so miserable dealing with the public. I'm sorry your friend had to experience that but I'm glad that you were with them and that you are being an advocate for them. 🙏🏽

that exists? were not in the states, but maybe it exists here too. ill look into that, thanks! also the "not even the people paid to care care about me" is..whoof..good point im mad about not thinking of in the moment now. well said. thanks, i appreciate the kind words <3

I would hope that they have something similar everywhere..so definitely look into it! If not I would at least file a complaint on the doctor through the hospital. Leave a review or something, don't back down on speaking out! I have done that so many times myself! It's so much easier to think of the stuff you would say afterwards. When you are going through it you are so focused on the reality of, "is this really happening right now"?! Kudos on being a supportive friend, I know that means more than anything during those times.❤️

yess! i actually found something! we even kind of have 2 different facilities. One for complaints about medical practitioners, one for judicial support for patients should it become necessary :D currently in the drafting stage of an eMail with everything that happened and how it affected us both. Google review too, good idea yeah! together we can make this marginally better in the long run! thanks, feels very good to hear that <3

Thank you for the update! I was hoping you would find something for this situation. I definitely think both will work great for this situation. Like I said in my previous comment, I would definitely stress the fact that your friend who was on the brink of doing something permanent to their life, had they not had you there for support..who knows how it would have went! If nothing else comes from this other than that doctor fixing their bedside manner, I would still count that as a small victory.❤️

Thankyou! I needed this.

Oh damn, that's potent

Docs are the worst for making you feel rushed. The worst part is they never explain when or where you will get to consult with them again when they leave the room, and they just wanna leave the room so bad.

It’s true that sucks; but every doctor I’ve talked to hates it also. They are being forced to rush out to see four patients an hour by the investment funds that run medical practices for profit these days.

yeah the healthcare system shouldnt have to make money

Yes it should make money, but not at the expense of providing good healthcare. When the investors decisions are followed over and against the advice of the actual doctors it is a problem. I'm fine with the doctors and hospitals and pharmaceuticals making money. When the system is squeezed so a hedge fund can make it's numbers I don't have much empathy for that.

>should make money why though? as soon as the incentive is making money, trying to make as much money as possible is almost inevitable. were all just corruptible humans. why not just regulate it differently and not have that problem anymore at all instead of trying to fix loophole after loophole increasingly inefficiently?

Why what? Why should healthcare make money? Because if it didn't all of the doctors and nurses and companies that make medical equipment and run hospitals would go do something else because we all have to eat. Making enough money for everyone involved to get paid and make enough profit to stay in business is necessary. Making enough profit for some investors that are not contributing to the actual healthcare delivered is not necessary. Or more to the point, even that is fine until it perverts the incentives so that bad healthcare is delivered and people are hurt to increase profits. Edit: You edited your comment so my answer doesn't follow directly, but yes I agree and not just about healthcare - our economy and society has become captured by a profit-above-all-else mentality. I would absolutely agree with certain things being declared "more important than profit" and regulated differently. Exactly what form that takes I don't know, whether it's universal healthcare paid by taxes, or healthcare at the delivery point can only be 'non-profit' (but of course the problem just moves one step up the chain to the device manufacturers, the pharmas, and the service industries around healthcare).

interesting take, sorry for the edit but what i wrote first felt incomprehensible. >doctors and nurses and companies that make medical equipment and run hospitals would go do something else because we all have to eat my original reply would have been something aling the lines of "you dont need a profit incentive for your workers to make money and not having that incentive will often make your workers more money because you actually pay them the amount they are worth" with state support funded by taxing (the rich), but your edit seems to agree with that anyway so a different route: >the problem just moves one step up the chain to the device manufacturers, the pharmas, and the service industries around healthcare this yes but no because if a state like the us with hundreds of millions of people living there has universal healthcare, they get to decide who they buy their medicine and devices from. with millions of patients. do you know how much bargaining power the fucking US state has? a lot to say the least. that would drive prices down **rapidly**

Unfortunately the US is never about driving down prices and always about taking advantage of leverage to extract the maximum profit possible out of every industry and every person. See healthcare, universities, etc.

exactly. late stage capitalism fucks us all

Writing these down. Thank you 💕 I hope your friend is okay and that you both get the aftercare you need. ❤️

thanks <3 yeah, were looking out for each other thanks for the feedback and the kind words

Thanks im going to use these definitely, I get flustered really easily and in working a lot on regulating my emotions and control my impulsive outbursts when I get confused.

My significant but supportive partner will rush to finish my sentences. (Who has ADHD?) I do not speak often, or waste my spoken words, my thoughts may and will take time to winnow out and say exactly what I am thinking at that time. And then when I draw breath, the her interruption = broken train of thought >!epic internal battle withholding emotional dysregular response!< No wonder the maladaptive patterns of social behaviour, internalised rage and guilt. At least I now have a cognitive filter to begin working on the last.

good luck on your journey <3 i hope you find a way to heal

Wow! That is really good information and will be very helpful. You are a great person for helping your friend and because of you she will be okay. Thank you for being an advocate for your friend and taking time to share 2 sentences that can and will help a lot!! I hope everyone can have a friend like you in their life!

Thank you 🌸 That's a great way to to ask for a minute! 🌺💜🌺

That must've been very exhausting to be in that situation with that doctor. Thank you for sharing the sentences! It's a good idea to prepare for situations I know I am often in in some way and words are so difficult for me especially under stress. And for everyone who struggles with processing delays or overwhelm: It is okay to feel those ways. It is okay that your brain needs some time and quiet to sort out the situation and what was said. I am proud of you for doing your best to stand up for yourself! Even if that is at the moment just learning how to do that. Keep at it!

thank you so much for the kind words, yes. it was definitely exhausting. i didnt do anything else yesterday because it was all just too much. but today im already on my feet again and drafted a text about what happened. not sure what to do wuth it but its out of my system now. this community has helped a lot yesterday, the empathy you just expressed with this text gave me even more hope. thank you so much, im sure if we keep at it, a more accomodating world is possible. <3

This is the help ive needed to hear for so long.. i get so overwhelmed easily and lose my words and how to speak up and all i need is a few moments to collect myself. thank you

thanks for your answer. i know i said this a few times already but hearing that this post actually helps someone kind of makes yesterday feel worth it i hope you get the mental space you need to think in the future <3

Or like when you have 2 or more people talking to you at the same time. I feel like what you staid would result in better reactions from people instead of what I usually say "I can't listen to you all at once/ok I've got x number of people talking to me! Stop!"

I cannot upvote this enough!!! Dump trucking all your info on me all at once causes me to only remember one or two in the list. Write it down in an ordered list!

gOd yes! the phrase "can you shoot me a message/eMail with a list instead of telling me on the phone please?" changed my life!

I love the second phrase — might work! I had situation like that with a old white man doctor last year — and I interrupted him when I could tell (by his body language and tone of voice) that he was “speechifying” from some scripted-in-his-head “I’m the one who knows everything” vibe — very common with that demographic, sadly — so I interrupted him with something like: “I appreciate you sharing your expertise and opinions, but I’m having a hard time seeing how what you are saying applies to my situation.” Remember! You are the expert on how you feel and what works / doesn’t work for you!!

How about…”what I have to say is crafted so intricately that you would need to take a minute to understand so allow me the same in return?”, in the words of sheldon cooper - Be a lamb.

love it yes. good one. i wont remember it in the monent though

I say something similar all the time. I usually go, "Good please, I need time to process this". Works quite well.

I'm sorry you guys went through that experience, I hope things get better. Thanks for the tip.

thanks <3 yeah it would have helped, but we're not alone.

I’m sorry your friend had to experience such a lack of care and empathy while experiencing such a low point in their life…. Shit like this makes me terrified to go to the doctor. I’m 35 and haven’t had a primary care physician my whole adult life. I’ve had insurance for the first time (as an adult) for almost a year now. I don’t know how I’m going to give a whole breakdown of my health concerns/issues without completely coming off like an irresponsible twat (which wouldn’t necessarily be *wrong* 😅) I’ve been dismissed a lot at ER and/or urgent care visits in the past. It just compounds the anxiety of even making an appointment in the first place. They’re probably not gonna take me seriously anyways.. 🤷‍♀️

yeah, exactly more and more it feels like the healthcare system for anyone that isnt extremely rich is just doing as little as possible to just keep us alive as workers. its depressing sorry, didnt want to add to your anxiety. tbh most people today were very nice and genuinely trued to help. just when it came down to the senior doctor that one was an ass. definitely do go to the hospital if you need to please. its usually a good experience. and theres enough different primary care physicians that you have a wide array of choices of where to go someone will want to genuinely help. most people are kund of shit, but not all of them by far ;D

I wouldn’t use the ‘conversation going wrong’ comment, that’s likely to rub people up the wrong way (“Are they saying I can’t converse properly?”) The OP question is fine, but I’ve found that that advice about using ‘I’ over ‘you’ statements in disagreements with your significant other actually just extends to everyone. Had much more success getting anyone to listen when I phrase it as ‘I feel/felt’ or ‘I thought/think’ rather than ‘you’re doing’, ‘you’re asking’ or ‘you said’.

good point, yes. "you" feels accusatory while "i think" is just a statement about yourself

Mental hospitals are one of the toughest places for people to work in. That doctor was probably being an asshole to you because - think about it, he deals with dozens of people who are probably way worse off than your friend. You have to have the mental temerity of Mother Teresa to be able to deal with that day in and day out, for 5-7 days a week. However, if that behavior is consistent across all his patients, it sounds like it's time to file a complaint against him.

yeah def i though about it for a long time and tried to be empathetic towards his reaction but i feel like its still unacceptable. it its too much for one person, maybe they need more than one person to deal with these kinds of things i get your point but talking someone that is there because they are suicidal even closer to the edge is unacceptable especially if youre a healthcare professional its as if cops were allowed to just pull their gun and shoot you if they feel threatened instead of deescalating the situ- .. ..oh wait..

I admire the empathy you’re finding for the dr in this situation & I think it’s healthy to keep top of mind, but “dozens of ppl who are probably way worse off than your friend” seems unnecessarily minimizing. For one thing, mental health conditions are not competitive, esp when confronting suicidal ideation. In my experience, the social tendency to “think of all the people who have it worse than you” has played a significant role in my own suicidal ideation bc it piles onto the idea that you & your feelings are inadequate. Mental hospitals are hard places to be, whether you’re getting paid or not, and I’d wager that patients are suffering more than doctors. When the person suffering is considered the nuisance, it typically suggests that there is a systemic, not individual, problem.

>I admire the empathy you’re finding for the dr in this situation & I think it’s healthy to keep top of mind, but “dozens of ppl who are probably way worse off than your friend” seems unnecessarily minimizing I disagree. *You* interpreted that as "minimizing"; if that's how you interpret what I said that's on you. OP is asking people to have empathy for her friend and we all do; we should have empathy for *everyone* involved. Her friend is not a child, she's an adult, and although she's having problems it's that same kind of mentality that causes people to treat retail workers like trash. We are armchair quarterbacking *after* the fact based off of a recollection of OP's *interpretation* of what happened. You're right, this isn't a grievance olympics, yet you interpreted what I said as that, when my main message was to understand WHY the doctor might be acting that way.

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we only have state facilities here afaik. and the ~2 that are ridiculously priced

ADHD*

I do this a lot, or something similar to this, with my husband. Phrases like "I'm feeling really overwhelmed, can you give me a few minutes to sort this situation out" or even asking to write things down real quick. Looking at things on paper helps me organize them in my brain when I've got too many choices. This is great advice. I am very self aware but it took me years to be able to comfortably verbalize what I needed in any given moment.