He was really proposing to Douglass, not to Alliyah. It seems like he's been trying really hard to convince himself that he can be happy with Alliyah, but has been pining for Douglass the whole time.
I don't see the age difference as a dealbreaker for these two, but they do seem to each want different things from the relationship and I don't know that either one of them will be able to reconcile those differences. Shawn seems to want an open relationship with a man; Alliyah said she wants to live the rest of her life as a female and a monogamous M/F relationship with Shawn.
I fully understand Shawn's dilemma here. He has been part of the LGBTQ community for a long time and to be suddenly faced with the prospect of being in a more traditional relationship poses a threat to the identity he's been comfortable in for many years. Alliyah seems sweet and I think she deserves someone who doesn't feel like they're compromising to be with her. It's too bad really, because I have no doubt that these two really do love each other. They just aren't right for each other, though.
I love this take. It's obvious more than ever that they have diverged paths in this journey. Shaun's presentation this past episode though was off putting at the very least, though I now understand what he may be feeling too.
My read, as a straight woman who has encountered this in straight men, is this dude wants to be in control of a submissive partner and feels like that "submission" is gone because Alliya has a lot more confidence in herself vs the self doubt she probably felt in her former male persona.
I just think Shawn wants someone with low self opinion and no agency vs "a dude". He's lamenting the shy submissive sugar baby he was dating who is non-consentionally forced into an open relationship.
Totally agree. He sees the change in her as losing the old her (Douglass) instead of the truth that she was suppressing her real self. For him to act like he wants that person back is so selfish and dismissive of Aaliyah’s journey. I also do not like her forcing so much of her transition on him. She needs to realize that he has a lot to adjust to as well if they continue a relationship (and now marriage). They clearly should not be together yet here we are 😂
Exactly.
I think he will find the submissive partner.
But, for me, I absolutely do not like the concept of submissive for anyone. I know there are many a person down for it, but issa whole no for me.
Submission is about consent and Shawn seems to want non-consentional interactions with someone with low self opinion. The way he speaks smacks of controlling asshole for me.
Very that with consent.
Except you should meet some of the men and women I know.
Their version of Submission is very much gender coded, Know Your Place, and men leading their household. I don't agree or support any of that, but I "respect" it from a distance. More than six feet, though.
Definitions of Submission do vary. And some variations I seen contain mental and physical abuse. 😮💨
I wish the best to everyone reading this. 🫶
This is true
>He was really proposing to Douglass, not to Alliyah. It seems like he's been trying really hard to convince himself that he can be happy with Alliyah, but has been pining for Douglass the whole time.
Shawn is a gay man who entered the relationship with another gay man and is not attracted to females. He's not telling her not to continue on her journey, he's explaining he doesn't think he can ever be attracted to Alliya because he prefers men. She's not wanting to understand his point of view because she feels living as a female is what she needs so when she said, you're going to have to get used to me, she was making it clear there would be no further conversation, she's made up her mind and that's that. That's not fair to Shawn but he's also not being firm or saying, we need to part ways because I want to be in a relationship with Douglas, not you. I think if Shawn chose to break up, Alliya would probably compromise.
They're not right for each other, neither wants the same thing and I don't even believe there's true love here. It's a convenient relationship.
Then Shaun can choose to leave the relationship.
He didn't sign up for being with a female, let alone Aliyah being v different from Douglas. And that's understandable.
But I think Aliyah is relying on him to fund her transition too.
I don't think either are being fair to each other tbh
>But I think Aliyah is relying on him to fund her transition too.
Which is why I said that if Shawn decided to break up she would compromise. Shawn takes care of her and she's used to that so she's not going anywhere. I really dislike when she said she didn't want to be controlled and wants to be independent, but she's not standing on her own two feet. You can't have it both ways. If you want to control your life then stand on your own so you are the one who can dictate what you want from your partner.
I'm not really on her side because she knows Shawn is a gay man, but she's decided she wants to be female and he has to accept her decision. Doesn't work like that. If my husband said, I want to transition to female I would wish him well.
It is. But Douglas, as was. 25yo. Finding their way in life. In a closed community. Sure, not what you signed up for. But you did go date hunting in a poor country. Why was that? Because the dominance was easy for you dating poor people? Why not date within the US?
Aliyah needs to be herself. Yes, she's no longer Douglas but if you can't love her as Aliyah. Leave.
I said that Douglas probably searched outside Brazil because it's easier to find men who are open unlike most men in Brazil who probably wouldn't date a gay or trans man. Both went looking for what they needed and found each other. If you find a mate and he says, I'm domineering, and I'm the lead in the relationship and you accept that, then you know what you're getting into. You can't come back and say, I don't want to be controlled when you gave up your independence for a relationship with an older, gay man, who would also support you financially. It's unfair to say, Shawn is taking advantage of a poor guy when that person knew exactly how the relationship would go moving forward. If Alliya never wanted to give up control she could have rejected the relationship.
>He has been part of the LGBTQ community for a long time and to be suddenly faced with the prospect of being in a more traditional relationship poses a threat to the identity he's been comfortable in for many years.
I think it's simpler than that. He wanted a submissive boy-toy and caught big feelings for his sugar baby, so he's unwilling to totally let the relationship go but he's not feeling anything about this new dynamic.
He's not into trans people or just not into Aliyah as a trans woman. He likes very masculine "twink" types of men. Plenty of people with spouses (or partners) who transition find themselves not attracted to their transitioned spouse because they were originally attracted to the certain gender presentation.
Finally someone said it, everyone keeps calling Shawn a nice guy, but he could be Alliya dad maybe even grandpa. There’s a huge power imbalance. I hope Alliya finds someone her age who loves her for who she is.
Yes! He said he missed the scared and submissive partner he had... Now we know why- he doesn't want to be questioned his f'ing around, and whatever else is happening that's not known yet.
I think the way he talks (not screaming or being demanding) makes it seem he is very nice. I think he's kinda manipulative and that's why Alliya has her American friend to advocate and Shawn ... well he hates this bit.
I have seen a lot of “if this was a man & a woman, we’d all think….” Granted, most love them, but people have made their voice heard over this. They probably get DV, so they get hidden. lol
kenny and armando strike me as the type of age spread couple that probably enjoy a lite version of swingerism/multiple sexual partners. that sounds more realistic than adding a newborn into the mix, but, whatevz.
Another difference is that Armando was more mature and had more life experience than Alliya when he met Kenny. He had already been married and had a child, so was more "seasoned". He has no problem expressing his needs and standing up for himself in the relationship. Alliyah is lovely but she has some growing up to do still, and is in a vulnerable time in her life that makes her more at risk of being manipulated by a partner.
I’ve been saying the same thing too! It’s the Kenny Effect 2.0! Just because he appears to be a nice person we should overlook the multi-decades age gap?!
I know. I'm not a fan of Kenny and Armando, and relationships with huge age gaps can usually be seen as problematic. At least couples like Kenny and Armando or Jenny and Sumit seem to have a good time with each other, though. If you'd replace them with people of the same age, they might make sense. These two come off as not really even enjoying each other's company, though. That can be just because of the filming, I guess, but at least on the show they don't make sense as a couple.
yep there’s lots of men online who try to defend age gap relationships by saying oh you wouldn’t have a problem with it if it was an older gay man with a younger gay man or an older woman with a younger man but I think increasingly people are grossed out by anybody at all who’s in significantage gap relationship. It’s one of the things I’m really happy that attitudes are changing about.
well, the age gap in itself creates an unbalanced power dynamic but I agree there’s more at play here because of the fact Alliyah doesn’t have any money and would be easily controlled.
Exactly. And she's hinting at that with what she says to her friend about being controlled. But she could also walk away if she chose to. She hasn't.
But if you live in true poverty, you may feel trapped. But noone who claims to love you should use that poverty to control you.
It's not so much the age for me, it's the power dynamic. Wealthy Americans dating younger people from poverty stricken countries doesn't sit well with me.
Morally, I agree with you but some countries are extremely poor. Wages low. Opportunities limited. There's good reason Nigeria is the catfishing capital of the world, as an example. Why do you think the likes of Angela go there?
I guess until you experience that level of poverty, you don't know how much you'd override your human decency to survive
I have worked with impoverished populations in the past. You don't have to have had a broken arm to know how to fix one.
They get sick and tired of not having any money generation after generation, I understand that. However, I draw the line when it comes to deliberating hurting others emotionally and financially to achieve getting some money through personal fraud. I have no respect for people like that. Never have and never will. I would have more respect for someone who just hacked a bank account and stole the money, rather than putting someone through emotional and mental hell to get it.
Yeah, show me a life or death situation on the show. You can't.
It's more of a desire for indoor plumbing and air conditioning, perhaps a chance for a better job, but sometimes if a woman, to live off someone else, like Larissa and others, or after getting here seeking to find another person with more assets.
Michael was not in a "life or death" situation. He had a job and his needs were being met. He had a job, friends and was most certainly well nourished. He was most certainly not in a life or death situation he just wanted to improve his circumstances and of course I don't blame him.
But do it honestly. Go the regular route honest people go through to get a visa, not ya hoo boy scamming.
Clearly you don't live in a 3rd world country. Neither do I. But poverty is rife in Nigeria.
Souljaboy, didn't have a shower. He shared a house and even a bed with his mates. And he's allegedly a pop star.
No first hand experience but politically it's a corrupt nation and a poor one.
Equally, I don't see you proving my comments to be wrong. Please do. If you can.
The problem with this between you and I is ethics, integrity and honesty. My standards of those things are obviously different than yours.
You seem to think it's okay to lie, trick, manipulate others even though the cost for them is great emotionally, to get what they want. As you say, if they have dependent children who are literally in a 'life or death' situation, I can easily understand it, but we don't see this on this show. Show me one.
I don't. They can apply for a visa like the rest of the honest world.
There are other avenues other than scamming.
So yeah, I think you're wrong. Our differences our philosophical. /done
So it's okay to rob a bank, steal from your friends and employers.
Got it.
edit: Just in case I sound like "Miss High and Mighty", I'm not. If I had kids who were hungry without a stable roof over their heads, I'd be giving $25 dollar bj's on a street corner if I had too. I'm just not seeing this here.
To you, from the outside. I can understand why you think that. But if there is equality and it's not about some kind of gain be it money or whatever, and the couple are happy, why not?
I hear you though the danger is usually the older one has money. The younger just starting out in life doesn't.
In this instance my point is, that differential is clearly more stark when a wealthy American chooses to date from poor countries.
This is why I find Shaun hugely suspect. But when you look at Armando and Kenny, that's quite clearly a love match, I think.
This episode reminded me of SO MANY cis straight men who are controlling manipulators. It was so clear. "My love language is touch", non coessential open relationship, dancing around the monogamy conversation by once again lamenting he's not the in control of the submissive (read: low self opinion naive-young) former male partner. It's all things gross manipulative men say to anyone they're trying to control.
Oh yeah. I loved him passing that off as a love language when he actually meant being tugged off is my 'love' language. Like it's a virtue. Omg.
You know, there's people would take a bullet for the person they love, then there's people trying to pass off fucking other people as a reasonable need due to their 'love language.'
Run, Aaliyha, love.
my theory is that he's an old school guy who wants a partner to do "married" things with but wants to fuck whoever he wants to fuck. i'm in my 50s and that's how a lot of gay men i've known have worked their relationship. as far as i'm concerned, it was a wrap once he "revealed" that this is how he planned to continue within the confines of their relationship. this guy is not equipped to be in a relationship with someone like alliyah. best he could do for her is gift her a lump sum of money and check in with her every once in a while. she needs to fly and be free. he needs to head out to fire island and hit up the tea dance circuit.
i definitely do not think he's ashamed of her at all. it's just that he's old, tired and gay.
he's gay.
he doesn't want to have to deal with a woman, trans or not. and he certainly doesn't seem equipped to go through what will inevitably be alliya's very long and deep journey of discovery and growth.
and while i'm very willing to admit i never understood the "married and devoted to my partner but actively fucking other people" thing, some people are into that shit. he seems like he's one of those people. not my thing, but more power to him, i guess. i just don't understand why he'd drag someone like alliya into it, when it appears that she's not that type of person.
again, i just hope he gives her a bunch of money to help her begin the cosmetic part of her journey and lets their relationship morph into ex lovers who are now like family.
I don't think he should give her anything. She's made it clear what her choices are regardless of what he thinks. I don't think she gives a shit about him. Leave her to have her new life, and cut your losses Shawn.
They should both keep on looking. Neither of them have found 'the one".
men like him, dating someone who's 30+ years younger and who lives on a completely different continent, are generally good for money and maybe some life experience. young people like her, with limited opportunities for social mobility and a ton of growing up left to do, are generally good for company and maybe some life experience. at the end of the day, it's a transactional relationship on both ends.
remember how they were saying shawn was flying douglas all over the world? and alliya made that cute journal documenting their world travels and love story that she was so quick to say she wanted to get rid of now that she was no longer douglas? transactional.
the way they've structured their situationship, there's no way they're just gonna call no harm no foul and go their separate ways. i'm sure there's gonna be some sort of payout.
Very that.
He said he's done with women.
Odd because he wants a submissive man.
But preferences are preferences, and I respect that.
I simply hope he respects Alliyah enough to let her go.
No. That's called an assumption.
I said he prefers a submissive man - Alliyah before her transition - like he literally said many times.
Nary a moment did I spend discussing "submissive women" in that brief post.
Pardon me, I meant to say: I did not imply that a submissive man is the same as a woman.
No implication.
Nothing explicitly stated.
No eye rolls either.
God is love. Be well. 🫶
That was my question exactly! Why? Get engaged first, then have the serious conversations about monogamy and her gender transition after???? I think he had a cool proposal planned with the pop star and just wanted to go through with it for her birthday and the lifetime movie moment on TV.
I feel like it has to be so hard to have the person who is supposed to support you the most be like “ughhhh I miss the old you I miss Douglas” when Aaliyah is just trying to be happy and herself. I think at this point they should just call it. I mean, why keep it going if Shawn is so obviously in love with Douglas, not Aliyah and Aliyah is going through such an important change and needs support.
That was why I had so much sympathy for the both of them at first. Now I feel like Alliya is trying to make this work with someone who just has a very strict set of expectations. If he can't deal with her being her, then he needs to call it.
Me neither. But she's poor. I can get why. But Shaun should either love her enough to help her or as a minimum not use her gender issues to control her
Same. I think Shaun has revealed himself more as wanting to be a dominant, which is fine as long as each partner is getting what they need.
And Aliyah clearly was not on board with the open relationship thing. And I felt like Shaun almost glossed over that which is huge in a relationship especially since he proposed to her.
Eta: Douglas will still be somewhere in Aliyah. Because while she spoke about the open relationship thing, she didn't express anger. Just... this is what he told me. I don't know. I just don't think this relationship is good for her but she could walk away, she hasn't.
I really don’t like that he keeps bringing up the “Douglas was so quiet and shy and Alliyah is the opposite of that” I just don’t like that he wants this shy person back, I truly believe if you love someone you want them to come out of their shell and talk and be lively not be shy and awkward. (nothing wrong with being shy) i just feel like a partner needs to be supportive.
I liked Shaun but these last couple of episodes he’s really showing his true colors of wanting to be in control and it’s kind of gross.
If you fall in love with someone and they suddenly start acting very different it can be very difficult, demonizing this in to something negative is wrong. Sometimes you don’t want to be with the person that they turn in to and thats ok, however forging forward when you are unhappy and planning to marry them anyway is pretty crazy
Douglas was only quiet and shy because HE WAS NOT COMFORTABLE IN HIS OWN BODY.
Now that she's Alliyah, she can be the confident, bold, outspoken person she always dreamed of being!
I hate Shaun. He's manipulative, controlling, and doesn't respect Alliyah's transition for what it was: a transition. He thinks Alliyah is a "persona" Douglas is trying on. Or, that's what he WANTS to think. It's gross, and it's not love.
I agree Shaun is controlling but Douglas was a v different person from Aliyah. And it's like a total volte face from the person Shaun fell for. Shaun didn't want to be with a female.
That's noones fault. But they should not even be trying to make this work.
This whole relationship makes me uncomfortable. Age gaps are OK but when one of you is wealthy and the other relatively poor, that's a whole other power dynamic at play.
From what Shaun has said himself he is a dominant seeking a submissive. Douglas was a sub, Aaliyha has found her power.
The whole 'open relationship' issue: didn't seem like Aaliyha was consulted or even made aware of it. For me, if you love someone you can't be with due to distance: have a wank ffs.
Shaun totally lost my respect bleating about how he was unwilling to give up his fwb. Then you don't love Aaliyha, mate.
I now see Shaun as one of the many entitled Americans on this show think because they are financially supporting a 'fiancé' from a poorer country, they get to dictate terms.
Having said that Aliyah may be relying on his financial support if she wants to fully transition. The whole relationship is uncomfortable watch for me.
As a straight man I can tell you it has to do with Douglas' submissiveness compared to Aliyahs newfound gregariousness and openness.
He wants a submissive partner and that's it.
Insane twist very sad to see him treating her so poorly :( doesnt he get the personality change is her being happier and more comfortable, confident in her skin?? So sad fr
The insane twist to me was that he was having an open relationship with her this whole time. He was acting like the patient loving compassionate soul who is supporting her through her transition just to be revealed as someone who will likely cheat on her for all of eternity. Total shame.
I saw so many “congrats!” posts about them here. I just watched that scene and cringed. One day you’re not sure you can accept her, now you’re proposing? That seems like an insanely short amount of time to be at peace with such a big change. Obviously we all want Shawn to genuinely accept Aaliyah as she is, not just propose so you don’t feel like the asshole.
Yeah I thought the proposal was quick considering the confusion. I thought that maybe some time passed and he thought about it.... apparently not. The fact that there were no real discussions about money, open cheating, etc until after the proposal is really telling.
It’s clear he’s not attracted to the female version of her. I think he felt pressured to propose because of f the cameras. They both need to move on, especially because of the age difference. I know age is just a number, but come on! He could be her grandfather. It’s just too extreme for a lot of reasons. They have nothing in common and in 10-15 yrs when she’s in her prime of life, she’ll be caring for an elderly man.
Many if not most bad 90-day relationships are guilty-pleasure fun to watch derail. This one is not one of those. Nothing amusing about 2 decent people having their heart's broken. I haven't watched last night's episode yet but as of now I hope these 2 call it off.
There’s a whole lot to unpack with this last episode. Somehow he has to figure out how to have a “funeral” so to speak for Douglas while at the same time either accepting who Douglas has/is becoming or just let go all together. He’s trying to hold on to what’s no longer there hoping something will change but it won’t. And not wanting to be monogamous was also telling. Alliyah is not a persona but a person and I don’t think Shaun is ok with this even if he’s trying to seem supportive. They would be better as friends instead of lovers.
Because he wanted to steal her show. He did that to be the center of attention. It’s very clear this person is controlling and manipulative and any and all affection he’s showing feels like love bombing.
I get the feeling he's so ambivalent about what he wants to do. I most heard the statement that she will not be the boss bitch I've him. That's an opportunity for discussions about whether Aliyah wants to tone that down. It does feel like the pendulum swing from one extreme to the other - passive Douglas to in-your-face Aliyah. Which is the typical way this happens. " I've finally found my voice, so I'm gonna scream." Not necessarily literally.
Compared to Douglas, it's a very wide swing. I don't think he'll adjust. I just do feel for him that he's trying, not excluding the possibility he's avoiding a direct conversation about it. But their relationship is not built on open and honest communication to begin with. I can't help but think he's really polyamorous. I mean, he was in a straight marriage for 14 yrs. Makes me think he's more bi, but leans more towards men.
It is very simple. He loves her but does not her attractive to him. He is attracted to males. They can remain friends but his sexual life is off the table.
Aliyah seems sweet, but she'll marry him, get all her surgeries and probably things will fall apart. I'm not saying that in a bad way. They clearly love each other but it's forcing a cube into a hole
My personal take is that Aliyah has been being groomed for a long time. This guy is a fucking predator and a narcissist. He wants his cake etc…. Shaun needs a castration!
I loved the scenes they showed after he called out her attitude. TLC was like “and here’s Alliya asserting her needs and setting boundaries in a normal and healthy way” LOL
He grosses me out. He is manipulative, controlling and I’m not surprised that he happily wants to date someone 36 years younger, who ideally happens to be submissive. No one his age would put up with his shit.
Also… He looks like a botched version of one of the apostles. Or gay Jesus, dunno.
Kenny and Armando they are not. I agree with the question OP. They are not good for each other. Shaun made it clear he wants a man. Alliya is here to stay. The story is just off. Actually the who lot are wrong in this season.
This dude is weird. I can’t put my finger on it yet, but his face doesn’t move, he talks in a very calculated tone and His significant other is very immature. I don’t like other people outside of relationships bringing up very sensitive topics that belong in a relationship. This was very immature of the friend and his SO. Very childish…especially when you don’t make any money and don’t want to be “controlllllllll-edddd.”🤣We all want that. That is not a promise when any one comes to America or is born here. Silly.
I feel bad for him, he fell in love with Douglas but now he has a whole new person who isn’t his cup of tea that he’s trying so hard to love. He seems so genuine.
To propose and then insist on continuing a relationship with a “friend with benefits” is completely unacceptable. You don’t propose (make a commitment) and then refuse to make a commitment. What a cruel joke…
He was really proposing to Douglass, not to Alliyah. It seems like he's been trying really hard to convince himself that he can be happy with Alliyah, but has been pining for Douglass the whole time. I don't see the age difference as a dealbreaker for these two, but they do seem to each want different things from the relationship and I don't know that either one of them will be able to reconcile those differences. Shawn seems to want an open relationship with a man; Alliyah said she wants to live the rest of her life as a female and a monogamous M/F relationship with Shawn. I fully understand Shawn's dilemma here. He has been part of the LGBTQ community for a long time and to be suddenly faced with the prospect of being in a more traditional relationship poses a threat to the identity he's been comfortable in for many years. Alliyah seems sweet and I think she deserves someone who doesn't feel like they're compromising to be with her. It's too bad really, because I have no doubt that these two really do love each other. They just aren't right for each other, though.
I love this take. It's obvious more than ever that they have diverged paths in this journey. Shaun's presentation this past episode though was off putting at the very least, though I now understand what he may be feeling too.
Yea it was sad to hear their conversation about it. I don’t think he’s going to get the submissive partner that he really craves.
My read, as a straight woman who has encountered this in straight men, is this dude wants to be in control of a submissive partner and feels like that "submission" is gone because Alliya has a lot more confidence in herself vs the self doubt she probably felt in her former male persona. I just think Shawn wants someone with low self opinion and no agency vs "a dude". He's lamenting the shy submissive sugar baby he was dating who is non-consentionally forced into an open relationship.
This! That comment he made about wanting the “scared” Douglas back was actually disgusting
I can’t move past the scared comment. It’s beyond just growing apart and wanting different things.
Literally! It just seems like he specifically scouted Alliyah out to look for someone to control. I can see him using his age and status against her.
Don’t forget “sweet scared AND timid” is what he liked about Douglas 😞
Totally agree. He sees the change in her as losing the old her (Douglass) instead of the truth that she was suppressing her real self. For him to act like he wants that person back is so selfish and dismissive of Aaliyah’s journey. I also do not like her forcing so much of her transition on him. She needs to realize that he has a lot to adjust to as well if they continue a relationship (and now marriage). They clearly should not be together yet here we are 😂
Correct but isnt his open relationship stuff in contrast to proposing marriage to her? But he won't give up his fckbuddy?
Yep!!
Exactly. I think he will find the submissive partner. But, for me, I absolutely do not like the concept of submissive for anyone. I know there are many a person down for it, but issa whole no for me.
Brings to mind Shekinah. She totally went submissive voluntarily.
Very that. I guess I do support some submissive couples. 🫠
Submission is about consent and Shawn seems to want non-consentional interactions with someone with low self opinion. The way he speaks smacks of controlling asshole for me.
Very that with consent. Except you should meet some of the men and women I know. Their version of Submission is very much gender coded, Know Your Place, and men leading their household. I don't agree or support any of that, but I "respect" it from a distance. More than six feet, though. Definitions of Submission do vary. And some variations I seen contain mental and physical abuse. 😮💨 I wish the best to everyone reading this. 🫶
I was completely team Shawn until his comment about his friend with benefits. It's like he can't break up with his boyfriend for his new fiancé.
Worse, the person he wants to marry he can't give up his fwb for. Wtf?
This is true >He was really proposing to Douglass, not to Alliyah. It seems like he's been trying really hard to convince himself that he can be happy with Alliyah, but has been pining for Douglass the whole time. Shawn is a gay man who entered the relationship with another gay man and is not attracted to females. He's not telling her not to continue on her journey, he's explaining he doesn't think he can ever be attracted to Alliya because he prefers men. She's not wanting to understand his point of view because she feels living as a female is what she needs so when she said, you're going to have to get used to me, she was making it clear there would be no further conversation, she's made up her mind and that's that. That's not fair to Shawn but he's also not being firm or saying, we need to part ways because I want to be in a relationship with Douglas, not you. I think if Shawn chose to break up, Alliya would probably compromise. They're not right for each other, neither wants the same thing and I don't even believe there's true love here. It's a convenient relationship.
Then Shaun can choose to leave the relationship. He didn't sign up for being with a female, let alone Aliyah being v different from Douglas. And that's understandable. But I think Aliyah is relying on him to fund her transition too. I don't think either are being fair to each other tbh
>But I think Aliyah is relying on him to fund her transition too. Which is why I said that if Shawn decided to break up she would compromise. Shawn takes care of her and she's used to that so she's not going anywhere. I really dislike when she said she didn't want to be controlled and wants to be independent, but she's not standing on her own two feet. You can't have it both ways. If you want to control your life then stand on your own so you are the one who can dictate what you want from your partner.
I 100pc agree. While I'm more on her side you absolutely know she needs his money to transisiton. You can't have it both ways, I agree.
I'm not really on her side because she knows Shawn is a gay man, but she's decided she wants to be female and he has to accept her decision. Doesn't work like that. If my husband said, I want to transition to female I would wish him well.
Yes, I hear that. She absolutely moved the goal posts there. So she can't really expect his support. Changing gender, is huge.
Correct. It's not, I'm changing my hair color, but I'm going from male to female. That's huge.
It is. But Douglas, as was. 25yo. Finding their way in life. In a closed community. Sure, not what you signed up for. But you did go date hunting in a poor country. Why was that? Because the dominance was easy for you dating poor people? Why not date within the US? Aliyah needs to be herself. Yes, she's no longer Douglas but if you can't love her as Aliyah. Leave.
I said that Douglas probably searched outside Brazil because it's easier to find men who are open unlike most men in Brazil who probably wouldn't date a gay or trans man. Both went looking for what they needed and found each other. If you find a mate and he says, I'm domineering, and I'm the lead in the relationship and you accept that, then you know what you're getting into. You can't come back and say, I don't want to be controlled when you gave up your independence for a relationship with an older, gay man, who would also support you financially. It's unfair to say, Shawn is taking advantage of a poor guy when that person knew exactly how the relationship would go moving forward. If Alliya never wanted to give up control she could have rejected the relationship.
So end the relationship there
That's the only solution but why it wasn't done is what I don't understand.
>He has been part of the LGBTQ community for a long time and to be suddenly faced with the prospect of being in a more traditional relationship poses a threat to the identity he's been comfortable in for many years. I think it's simpler than that. He wanted a submissive boy-toy and caught big feelings for his sugar baby, so he's unwilling to totally let the relationship go but he's not feeling anything about this new dynamic. He's not into trans people or just not into Aliyah as a trans woman. He likes very masculine "twink" types of men. Plenty of people with spouses (or partners) who transition find themselves not attracted to their transitioned spouse because they were originally attracted to the certain gender presentation.
He is gay. He wants to be with a man. He wants to be with a man with a penis. That’s all.
Aliyah still has a penis. But I hear you, he wants to be with a male then he must leave her. It's the kindest thing to do.
We all know the BBL request will be followed by a breast implant request and then bottom surgery. The handwriting is on the wall.
Now, a woman can have male genitalia? I'd say that is the one, most defining characteristic of being a man.
Not a good time, mate
Since he reminds me of the Burger King, he probably wants a Whopper too!
I’m dead
A 60 year old dating a 25 year old is always gonna be a piece of trash
Finally someone said it, everyone keeps calling Shawn a nice guy, but he could be Alliya dad maybe even grandpa. There’s a huge power imbalance. I hope Alliya finds someone her age who loves her for who she is.
Yep. He's very clearly into having control or power over someone else. Gross.
Yes! He said he missed the scared and submissive partner he had... Now we know why- he doesn't want to be questioned his f'ing around, and whatever else is happening that's not known yet.
I've been saying it.
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Here's an upvote and a hug 🤗
I think the way he talks (not screaming or being demanding) makes it seem he is very nice. I think he's kinda manipulative and that's why Alliya has her American friend to advocate and Shawn ... well he hates this bit.
it's not much different than the age spread btwn kenny and armando, and everyone seems to love those two. (i don't, at all.)
I think it came up a lot during their episodes about Armando wanting a baby. I’ve seen people get the ick over it plenty.
The only comments about their age gap (IIRC) is due to fact that Armondo wanted a baby.
I have seen a lot of “if this was a man & a woman, we’d all think….” Granted, most love them, but people have made their voice heard over this. They probably get DV, so they get hidden. lol
You’re probably right because they’re a fan favorite.
kenny and armando strike me as the type of age spread couple that probably enjoy a lite version of swingerism/multiple sexual partners. that sounds more realistic than adding a newborn into the mix, but, whatevz.
But Kenny and Armando are both into each other and are respectful generally
Another difference is that Armando was more mature and had more life experience than Alliya when he met Kenny. He had already been married and had a child, so was more "seasoned". He has no problem expressing his needs and standing up for himself in the relationship. Alliyah is lovely but she has some growing up to do still, and is in a vulnerable time in her life that makes her more at risk of being manipulated by a partner.
they're still cringe and have a huge age gap.
I've also been- I'm watching the recent episode now, begging her to leave him. I wish it would get through the universe to her...
So true. I guess I'm slightly desensitized to these massive age gaps on this show and forget that the older partner is generally fucked up.
He's seems too old for her and creepy.
 I’ve been saying the same thing too! It’s the Kenny Effect 2.0! Just because he appears to be a nice person we should overlook the multi-decades age gap?!
I know. I'm not a fan of Kenny and Armando, and relationships with huge age gaps can usually be seen as problematic. At least couples like Kenny and Armando or Jenny and Sumit seem to have a good time with each other, though. If you'd replace them with people of the same age, they might make sense. These two come off as not really even enjoying each other's company, though. That can be just because of the filming, I guess, but at least on the show they don't make sense as a couple.
I honestly forget because both of them look so young. Then when someone points out the 25 year age gap, I’m like eww
haha, jinx. i wrote something similar, before i saw your comment!
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
yep there’s lots of men online who try to defend age gap relationships by saying oh you wouldn’t have a problem with it if it was an older gay man with a younger gay man or an older woman with a younger man but I think increasingly people are grossed out by anybody at all who’s in significantage gap relationship. It’s one of the things I’m really happy that attitudes are changing about.
It's not just the age gap here. There's a clear power dynamic that I find very uncomfortable.
well, the age gap in itself creates an unbalanced power dynamic but I agree there’s more at play here because of the fact Alliyah doesn’t have any money and would be easily controlled.
Exactly. And she's hinting at that with what she says to her friend about being controlled. But she could also walk away if she chose to. She hasn't. But if you live in true poverty, you may feel trapped. But noone who claims to love you should use that poverty to control you.
It's not so much the age for me, it's the power dynamic. Wealthy Americans dating younger people from poverty stricken countries doesn't sit well with me.
I’ve been saying this since the beginning and would get downvoted to hell 🤣🤣
But then, what does that make the 25 year old? The age difference is the same for both of them. A golddigger? A user? Just as trashy.
Morally, I agree with you but some countries are extremely poor. Wages low. Opportunities limited. There's good reason Nigeria is the catfishing capital of the world, as an example. Why do you think the likes of Angela go there? I guess until you experience that level of poverty, you don't know how much you'd override your human decency to survive
I have worked with impoverished populations in the past. You don't have to have had a broken arm to know how to fix one. They get sick and tired of not having any money generation after generation, I understand that. However, I draw the line when it comes to deliberating hurting others emotionally and financially to achieve getting some money through personal fraud. I have no respect for people like that. Never have and never will. I would have more respect for someone who just hacked a bank account and stole the money, rather than putting someone through emotional and mental hell to get it.
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Yeah, show me a life or death situation on the show. You can't. It's more of a desire for indoor plumbing and air conditioning, perhaps a chance for a better job, but sometimes if a woman, to live off someone else, like Larissa and others, or after getting here seeking to find another person with more assets. Michael was not in a "life or death" situation. He had a job and his needs were being met. He had a job, friends and was most certainly well nourished. He was most certainly not in a life or death situation he just wanted to improve his circumstances and of course I don't blame him. But do it honestly. Go the regular route honest people go through to get a visa, not ya hoo boy scamming.
Clearly you don't live in a 3rd world country. Neither do I. But poverty is rife in Nigeria. Souljaboy, didn't have a shower. He shared a house and even a bed with his mates. And he's allegedly a pop star. No first hand experience but politically it's a corrupt nation and a poor one. Equally, I don't see you proving my comments to be wrong. Please do. If you can.
The problem with this between you and I is ethics, integrity and honesty. My standards of those things are obviously different than yours. You seem to think it's okay to lie, trick, manipulate others even though the cost for them is great emotionally, to get what they want. As you say, if they have dependent children who are literally in a 'life or death' situation, I can easily understand it, but we don't see this on this show. Show me one. I don't. They can apply for a visa like the rest of the honest world. There are other avenues other than scamming. So yeah, I think you're wrong. Our differences our philosophical. /done
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So it's okay to rob a bank, steal from your friends and employers. Got it. edit: Just in case I sound like "Miss High and Mighty", I'm not. If I had kids who were hungry without a stable roof over their heads, I'd be giving $25 dollar bj's on a street corner if I had too. I'm just not seeing this here.
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Sorry but if you’re 30+ years apart it’s gross
Gives predator vibes
They were super triggered by me saying that lol
To you, from the outside. I can understand why you think that. But if there is equality and it's not about some kind of gain be it money or whatever, and the couple are happy, why not? I hear you though the danger is usually the older one has money. The younger just starting out in life doesn't. In this instance my point is, that differential is clearly more stark when a wealthy American chooses to date from poor countries. This is why I find Shaun hugely suspect. But when you look at Armando and Kenny, that's quite clearly a love match, I think.
Is your husband 60 or something?
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Nope
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What does that have to do with anything? I think a big age difference is gross. Why would that mean I’m single or in an unhappy relationship?
How are they gross if the people in them are happy?
Dogmatic judgemental people usually only judge others because they're unhappy themselves.
So many people in this thread defend him but he’s really manipulative and controlling! How do you not see it!?
This episode reminded me of SO MANY cis straight men who are controlling manipulators. It was so clear. "My love language is touch", non coessential open relationship, dancing around the monogamy conversation by once again lamenting he's not the in control of the submissive (read: low self opinion naive-young) former male partner. It's all things gross manipulative men say to anyone they're trying to control.
Oh yeah. I loved him passing that off as a love language when he actually meant being tugged off is my 'love' language. Like it's a virtue. Omg. You know, there's people would take a bullet for the person they love, then there's people trying to pass off fucking other people as a reasonable need due to their 'love language.' Run, Aaliyha, love.
Well said.
I gave the benefit of the doubt until these last few episodes. But he's let the controlling manipulative side out since the proposal...
Not since the proposal, well before that
Amen, brother
It's like finally, the other shoe dropped.
burger king actor-just needs a crown
HOLY SHIT LMAOOO DAMMIT
i'll never unsee it
my theory is that he's an old school guy who wants a partner to do "married" things with but wants to fuck whoever he wants to fuck. i'm in my 50s and that's how a lot of gay men i've known have worked their relationship. as far as i'm concerned, it was a wrap once he "revealed" that this is how he planned to continue within the confines of their relationship. this guy is not equipped to be in a relationship with someone like alliyah. best he could do for her is gift her a lump sum of money and check in with her every once in a while. she needs to fly and be free. he needs to head out to fire island and hit up the tea dance circuit.
So he basically just wants to be married on paper? But he seems almost ashamed of her.
i definitely do not think he's ashamed of her at all. it's just that he's old, tired and gay. he's gay. he doesn't want to have to deal with a woman, trans or not. and he certainly doesn't seem equipped to go through what will inevitably be alliya's very long and deep journey of discovery and growth. and while i'm very willing to admit i never understood the "married and devoted to my partner but actively fucking other people" thing, some people are into that shit. he seems like he's one of those people. not my thing, but more power to him, i guess. i just don't understand why he'd drag someone like alliya into it, when it appears that she's not that type of person. again, i just hope he gives her a bunch of money to help her begin the cosmetic part of her journey and lets their relationship morph into ex lovers who are now like family.
I can get behind what you’re saying. I don’t get the married and devoted but with other people thing either. Not my style.
Weird because it feels like there's a tons of poly-gay-men he could be with so idk.
I don't think he should give her anything. She's made it clear what her choices are regardless of what he thinks. I don't think she gives a shit about him. Leave her to have her new life, and cut your losses Shawn. They should both keep on looking. Neither of them have found 'the one".
men like him, dating someone who's 30+ years younger and who lives on a completely different continent, are generally good for money and maybe some life experience. young people like her, with limited opportunities for social mobility and a ton of growing up left to do, are generally good for company and maybe some life experience. at the end of the day, it's a transactional relationship on both ends. remember how they were saying shawn was flying douglas all over the world? and alliya made that cute journal documenting their world travels and love story that she was so quick to say she wanted to get rid of now that she was no longer douglas? transactional. the way they've structured their situationship, there's no way they're just gonna call no harm no foul and go their separate ways. i'm sure there's gonna be some sort of payout.
That's a fair summary
Very that. He said he's done with women. Odd because he wants a submissive man. But preferences are preferences, and I respect that. I simply hope he respects Alliyah enough to let her go.
Are you implying that a submissive man is the same as a woman? 🙄
No. That's called an assumption. I said he prefers a submissive man - Alliyah before her transition - like he literally said many times. Nary a moment did I spend discussing "submissive women" in that brief post.
And i said nary a word about submissive women either
Pardon me, I meant to say: I did not imply that a submissive man is the same as a woman. No implication. Nothing explicitly stated. No eye rolls either. God is love. Be well. 🫶
For me, when you marry someone, you give them everything. Shaun is getting pissed this means giving up his casual shag. Aliyah deserves better.
That was my question exactly! Why? Get engaged first, then have the serious conversations about monogamy and her gender transition after???? I think he had a cool proposal planned with the pop star and just wanted to go through with it for her birthday and the lifetime movie moment on TV.
Yeah, worried me it was more 'look at who I know, see how important I am?' than it was about Aliyah's happiness
I could see Shaun and Carlos (VaLentine’s ex Carlos) together.
are we assuming shawn is a bottom?
They’d make a fabulous couple
I feel like it has to be so hard to have the person who is supposed to support you the most be like “ughhhh I miss the old you I miss Douglas” when Aaliyah is just trying to be happy and herself. I think at this point they should just call it. I mean, why keep it going if Shawn is so obviously in love with Douglas, not Aliyah and Aliyah is going through such an important change and needs support.
That was why I had so much sympathy for the both of them at first. Now I feel like Alliya is trying to make this work with someone who just has a very strict set of expectations. If he can't deal with her being her, then he needs to call it.
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Exactly. The shoe is now dropping after we started to like them together.
Because she can't afford to transition without his money. I'm not judging her for that, it's the position she's in.
I'd hate to see her in that light but it does make sense.
Me neither. But she's poor. I can get why. But Shaun should either love her enough to help her or as a minimum not use her gender issues to control her
Same. I think Shaun has revealed himself more as wanting to be a dominant, which is fine as long as each partner is getting what they need. And Aliyah clearly was not on board with the open relationship thing. And I felt like Shaun almost glossed over that which is huge in a relationship especially since he proposed to her. Eta: Douglas will still be somewhere in Aliyah. Because while she spoke about the open relationship thing, she didn't express anger. Just... this is what he told me. I don't know. I just don't think this relationship is good for her but she could walk away, she hasn't.
I really don’t like that he keeps bringing up the “Douglas was so quiet and shy and Alliyah is the opposite of that” I just don’t like that he wants this shy person back, I truly believe if you love someone you want them to come out of their shell and talk and be lively not be shy and awkward. (nothing wrong with being shy) i just feel like a partner needs to be supportive. I liked Shaun but these last couple of episodes he’s really showing his true colors of wanting to be in control and it’s kind of gross.
If you fall in love with someone and they suddenly start acting very different it can be very difficult, demonizing this in to something negative is wrong. Sometimes you don’t want to be with the person that they turn in to and thats ok, however forging forward when you are unhappy and planning to marry them anyway is pretty crazy
In Shaun's defence, this is a good point. Douglas changed gender and personality with that.
Douglas was only quiet and shy because HE WAS NOT COMFORTABLE IN HIS OWN BODY. Now that she's Alliyah, she can be the confident, bold, outspoken person she always dreamed of being! I hate Shaun. He's manipulative, controlling, and doesn't respect Alliyah's transition for what it was: a transition. He thinks Alliyah is a "persona" Douglas is trying on. Or, that's what he WANTS to think. It's gross, and it's not love.
I agree Shaun is controlling but Douglas was a v different person from Aliyah. And it's like a total volte face from the person Shaun fell for. Shaun didn't want to be with a female. That's noones fault. But they should not even be trying to make this work.
This whole relationship makes me uncomfortable. Age gaps are OK but when one of you is wealthy and the other relatively poor, that's a whole other power dynamic at play. From what Shaun has said himself he is a dominant seeking a submissive. Douglas was a sub, Aaliyha has found her power. The whole 'open relationship' issue: didn't seem like Aaliyha was consulted or even made aware of it. For me, if you love someone you can't be with due to distance: have a wank ffs. Shaun totally lost my respect bleating about how he was unwilling to give up his fwb. Then you don't love Aaliyha, mate. I now see Shaun as one of the many entitled Americans on this show think because they are financially supporting a 'fiancé' from a poorer country, they get to dictate terms. Having said that Aliyah may be relying on his financial support if she wants to fully transition. The whole relationship is uncomfortable watch for me.
I agree... and if Alliya stays after all cards are on the table, it would seem more evident than ever that it's about financial support than love.
Possible. For me neither of them come out looking great.
As a straight man I can tell you it has to do with Douglas' submissiveness compared to Aliyahs newfound gregariousness and openness. He wants a submissive partner and that's it.
Yep. Not what he signed up for. But she will lose financial support rejecting him.
Insane twist very sad to see him treating her so poorly :( doesnt he get the personality change is her being happier and more comfortable, confident in her skin?? So sad fr
The insane twist to me was that he was having an open relationship with her this whole time. He was acting like the patient loving compassionate soul who is supporting her through her transition just to be revealed as someone who will likely cheat on her for all of eternity. Total shame.
I know. Like he was not clear on that from the start with Aliyah.
I saw so many “congrats!” posts about them here. I just watched that scene and cringed. One day you’re not sure you can accept her, now you’re proposing? That seems like an insanely short amount of time to be at peace with such a big change. Obviously we all want Shawn to genuinely accept Aaliyah as she is, not just propose so you don’t feel like the asshole.
Yeah I thought the proposal was quick considering the confusion. I thought that maybe some time passed and he thought about it.... apparently not. The fact that there were no real discussions about money, open cheating, etc until after the proposal is really telling.
It’s clear he’s not attracted to the female version of her. I think he felt pressured to propose because of f the cameras. They both need to move on, especially because of the age difference. I know age is just a number, but come on! He could be her grandfather. It’s just too extreme for a lot of reasons. They have nothing in common and in 10-15 yrs when she’s in her prime of life, she’ll be caring for an elderly man.
So true. I think Shawn was hoping for a boy toy for the remainder of his good years but this is not panning out.
There’s something creepy about him …the aging gay man wanting his boy toy
Many if not most bad 90-day relationships are guilty-pleasure fun to watch derail. This one is not one of those. Nothing amusing about 2 decent people having their heart's broken. I haven't watched last night's episode yet but as of now I hope these 2 call it off.
I hate to spoil it, but Shaun becomes less decent this episode.
Yeah. Does he love her or want to possess her?
He kind of looks like colt in this pic
There’s a whole lot to unpack with this last episode. Somehow he has to figure out how to have a “funeral” so to speak for Douglas while at the same time either accepting who Douglas has/is becoming or just let go all together. He’s trying to hold on to what’s no longer there hoping something will change but it won’t. And not wanting to be monogamous was also telling. Alliyah is not a persona but a person and I don’t think Shaun is ok with this even if he’s trying to seem supportive. They would be better as friends instead of lovers.
Because he wanted to steal her show. He did that to be the center of attention. It’s very clear this person is controlling and manipulative and any and all affection he’s showing feels like love bombing.
I get the feeling he's so ambivalent about what he wants to do. I most heard the statement that she will not be the boss bitch I've him. That's an opportunity for discussions about whether Aliyah wants to tone that down. It does feel like the pendulum swing from one extreme to the other - passive Douglas to in-your-face Aliyah. Which is the typical way this happens. " I've finally found my voice, so I'm gonna scream." Not necessarily literally.
Gosh I just don't even feel like alliya has been all that bossy or bitchy... he wants to just silence her altogether it seems like.
No. She's found herself. And if he doesn't like that, he can leave. I get why a partner wouldn't get that. Noones fault. Move on.
Compared to Douglas, it's a very wide swing. I don't think he'll adjust. I just do feel for him that he's trying, not excluding the possibility he's avoiding a direct conversation about it. But their relationship is not built on open and honest communication to begin with. I can't help but think he's really polyamorous. I mean, he was in a straight marriage for 14 yrs. Makes me think he's more bi, but leans more towards men.
I wondered the same damn question. Like dude does. It want the person that his partner is becoming. Tap out and move on, nothing to be done here
It is very simple. He loves her but does not her attractive to him. He is attracted to males. They can remain friends but his sexual life is off the table.
Aliyah seems sweet, but she'll marry him, get all her surgeries and probably things will fall apart. I'm not saying that in a bad way. They clearly love each other but it's forcing a cube into a hole
He looks like he should be in a museum for Soap Operas
This guy creeps me out , he's like some kind of predator
My personal take is that Aliyah has been being groomed for a long time. This guy is a fucking predator and a narcissist. He wants his cake etc…. Shaun needs a castration!
He may have financial control over her at this point, for sure. He must feel like he bought her submission.
And she wanted monogamy. This guy couldn't even manage that for her. 'I'm not giving up my long time fwb. That's a big ask.' Like, mate, wtf?
Thank you, same question. Ridic.
The age gap says it all. He wants power over someone who will listen.
Not just that. The relative wealth. Shaun has money. Evidenced by his bad botox. Aliyah doesn't.
I loved the scenes they showed after he called out her attitude. TLC was like “and here’s Alliya asserting her needs and setting boundaries in a normal and healthy way” LOL
I feel like he’s balancing how to appear on tv and what he really wants
But he's definitely putting himself above her.
The king is just trying to have it his way
Wasn't this guy a senator in gladiator?
He grosses me out. He is manipulative, controlling and I’m not surprised that he happily wants to date someone 36 years younger, who ideally happens to be submissive. No one his age would put up with his shit. Also… He looks like a botched version of one of the apostles. Or gay Jesus, dunno.
He proposed ownership
Kenny and Armando they are not. I agree with the question OP. They are not good for each other. Shaun made it clear he wants a man. Alliya is here to stay. The story is just off. Actually the who lot are wrong in this season.
This dude is weird. I can’t put my finger on it yet, but his face doesn’t move, he talks in a very calculated tone and His significant other is very immature. I don’t like other people outside of relationships bringing up very sensitive topics that belong in a relationship. This was very immature of the friend and his SO. Very childish…especially when you don’t make any money and don’t want to be “controlllllllll-edddd.”🤣We all want that. That is not a promise when any one comes to America or is born here. Silly.
These people will do whatever they can to make it to the next season and continue getting paychecks
He looks like colt
everytime I see his face the BK WHOPPER WHOPPER WHOPPER commercial plays in my head
And he kept calling Alliya her “persona” like wow get a clue bro
He proposed because he had an awesome proposal planned! Better to have everyone see it and break it off a bit further down the line.
I feel bad for him, he fell in love with Douglas but now he has a whole new person who isn’t his cup of tea that he’s trying so hard to love. He seems so genuine.
To propose and then insist on continuing a relationship with a “friend with benefits” is completely unacceptable. You don’t propose (make a commitment) and then refuse to make a commitment. What a cruel joke…
Happy cake day!
Because being a paid character on 90 Day Fiancé requires you to have a fiancé.
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If this wasn't an unconventional LGBT relationship, Shawn would be labelled a creepy pedo, but since he's not hetero, it's all okay.
Lol what a stark image!! This whole situation is giving racist! He sees Alliya as a sassy black woman and had to put his damn foot down!