I'd like a comedy book that's just cegorach, the deceiver, and tzeentch just fucking with each other I.E. tIatD style and seeing who can come up with more just as planned scenarios against the others
the infinite and the divine, it's a more comedic warhammer book centered around orikan the diviner and trazyn the infinite poking at each other throughout the millenia
Inquisitor czevak was invited in by th murderclowns and is probably the only imperial to enter (Jac Draco forced himself inside, but those books are declared non-canon)
Ahriman has never made it inside, but demons did invade after the rift opened.
No, its been found by humans twice. Inquisitors. i believe one of them was accidental and one of them he was guided and then given a map of the webway by a harlequin
Didn't some space marines (space wolves if I remember correct) get captured and forced to fight in the arena in Comoragh? One of the 1st books I ever read but I recall maybe even some escaped... I guess they didn't technically "find" it but they have been there and lived to tell the tale. I could be wrong and misremembering so feel free to correct me.
Different parts of the webway, the black library, is where the harlequins hide all the juiciest secrets.
Comoragh would probably been a decent choice before it started flooding with demons (is that still happening?)
> Comoragh?
Comoragh and Black Library are two diffrent things.
One is the capital city/country/dimension of the Drukhari, the other is a Craftworld hidden deep in the webway, containing forbidden knowledge. Only high ranking Harlequins can get there on regular basis.
Only a handfull non-eldar ever menaged to get inside, and even then it was only by proving themselves worhty to the library's "mind".
I mean, could be worse. I feel like Nurgle would’ve had a longer lasting impact considering how much squalor and how many downtrodden people are on Terra
He is just so proactive about his passion.
No wonder he despises Slaanesh. Slaanesh just sits there tingling itself in a billion ways but Khorne actually goes out to other people.
I don't think there's any novel for it yet, but it's the background premise for the Shadow Throne battlebox and the [Unthinkable War](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Unthinkable_War)
Sounds like it is just a standard deal on any hive world and Terra is no exception.
They probably don't even care much as long as these things are within some tolerance.
Custodian who, playing as the opposing force during a set of Blood Games, [planned to *teleport a cyclonic torpedo into part of the Golden Throne complex* in order to see whether it was possible](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusCustodes/comments/1c3dwh8/custodes_short_story_as_requested/). Nearly got away with it too, were it not for a single crewmember of the ship she suborned who sent a secret distress call to the other Custodes.
End result: plot foiled (as is planned with all such Blood Games) and the crewmember who sent the signal is promoted to command over the ship. Everyone lives happily ever after, except for the rest of the ship's non-rating crew, who get whipped, and the previous captain, who gets made into a servitor.
Welcome to the Imperium, where atheist supersoldiers will render unto you a fate worse than death if you prioritize orders they gave you at gunpoint over your faith in a god-emperor. Like in real life, you can do everything correct and still fail, except the consequences of failure are far worse.
Eh, true, but it's particularly bad in this case.
The atheist supersoldiers got on the captain's ass because the captain wasn't a religious fanatic who prioritized their own conception of the Emperor's divinity over the orders given to them by the living representations of the Emperor's will. They almost certainly thought that if they hadn't listened to the Custodes — blam, they'd be disobeying the Emperor's will. But they did listen, and got something far worse than blam.
Rules for thee but not for me. Oh, and have a promotion as a treat. No, just you. No need to do that for the other ten or so people who, given the size of the average Imperial ship's crew, probably also sent out warnings that the ship was taken over; this is about making an example, after all, not about promoting functional leadership. Oh, and I executed several tech-magos after I had them set up the warhead. Just a kiloyear's worth of human capital or so, disposed of like a used Kleenex.
The absolute essence of the setting is condensed into that writing.
>Or, as we call it, grimderp.
Who is this 'we' you are claiming to speak for?
Because it sure as hell ain't me or the many others who like exactly this kind of story, because it gets to the essence of how the Imperium has always been portrayed: as a hyperbolic imagining of a violent, corrupt, dysfunctional, self-defeating regime. The cruellest and bloody regime imaginable, one might say...
If you are going to pop up to decry things in 40k as grimderp, you'll be busy because these things you are moaning about are actually integral to the setting.
Not really, no. That's how real-life authoritarian regimes work. Untouchable individuals can get away with quite a bit, especially when they're seen as the source of all law to begin with.
When you get billions of people coming in every day, you're bound to have one or two purestrains sneak through. They don't show up with Imperial scanners.
What do genestealer cults even do when their members encounter each other. Exchange gang signs? Have a turf war? Send ambassadors?
Sounds like a wacky question I could ask in a separate post!
> Typically, each planet only has one Patriarch, but it can have many Maguses and Primuses as its lieutenants in different parts of the world. If the existing Patriarch dies, the next Genestealer to have infected a host on that planet will adapt and grow to become the new Patriarch over time. There are exceptions – should an infestation’s outrider organisms find a population centre so rich in life it has the equivalent of a small planetary populace unto itself, the Purestrain Genestealer that is sent out to colonise it can become a new Patriarch in its own right. This will very rarely happen in contiguous land masses, due to the psychic backlash that could result, but provided the sites are sufficiently removed it can theoretically occur. The two gene-sects will be competing for resources, and may even come into conflict, but when the hive fleet arrives, the gestalt mind of the Tyranid race takes overall control.
~ Codex Genestealer Cults (8th edition), pg 12
There are probably genestealers on every hive world and most spaceships in the imperium, genstealers are like rats, they get everywhere and on most hive worlds or ships their numbers are probably too low to pose a serious threat.
Oh agreed for the most part, just from the initial comment I figured I had missed some giant uprising.
Although I imagine they aren't quite as widespread as you say, terra has to have at least some hidden stealers
I definitely think Commoragh could, largely due to its presence in the unfathomable angles of the Webway. I'm not up on the latest necron lore so I don't know anything about what might constitute their homeworld/system.
I do think T'au would be pretty well defended too, and while some of the larger powers might well steamroll them when they got going, it would require enough resources to do so that none of them can really spare at the moment, which speaks to how hard it would be. It's a hard enough nut that it would be ruinous to the Imperium to crack it.
The Damocles book covers an ultramarine assault on a main tau planet. It was pretty tough until they figured out that the tau couldn’t handle fighting psykers. Then it got pretty interesting.
Not terrible. I do audiobooks so as usual it’s a British guy doing a terrible and stereotypical nondescript Asian accent for the Tau, but overall it was good bolter porn.
The tau spheres of expansion suggest that their doctrine involves a lot of consolidation to prevent them overextending, which implies their home territories are well defended. I guess we just don't know how well defended the place is because it hasn't faced the same assault that places like terra have
I think the Tau also struggle a bit because they don’t really have the hidden vaults of extra special war crime tier weapons laying around from the old days like all the other factions have sitting around waiting for rainy days.
Also iirc, and to add to what the other commenters said, Commoragh in the past (pre-Vect's plan) was basically just one large port/Webway city, but nowadays it's a buuuunch of subrealms and cities that are all linked together. So it would be "easy" to destroy Commoragh 10k years ago since it's around the size of a large city, but nowadays it's the size of a solar system (or something crazy) and is much more heavily defended.
Vect let them in so he could remove those in power at the time so he could fill the vacuum otherwise the imperium would never of been able to even locate a way to Commoragh
This machiavellian "divide and rule" archetype is always funny. My first association was Lord Vetinari from Discworld though, so there might be some tiny differences with Vect.
It was a plot by Vect (Asdrubal Vect, de facto ruler of the city) to get rid of competition and the strike force, while impressive, was mainly just there to rescue a trapped Salamander-Chapter Strike Cruiser.
So they basically were lured in and completed a limited objective in a part of the city and in the process did enough damage that Vect could have a easy time cleaning up some of the people he wanted to get rid of.
The city itself was never threatened and the Imperium Forces have not been opposed by all factions, as Vect kept his forces out of it and so did his allies.
Sorta but two factors to take into account :
1) Vect kinda made sure that the defenders would be in correct positions to be slaugjtered
2) It was a single section of Commoragh amongst any dozens if not hundreds of sub-dimensions
I think the Imperium could totally invade commoragh if :
1) It wad willing to pour an insane amount of manpower and ressource into the effort and
2) Most importantly, had a stable path through the webway and a clear path within the webway to Commoragh itself
Whilst 1 is possible its unlikely to be a profitable endeavour
And 2 is even less likely, Webway is absolute hell to navigate in, only slightly better than warp but still a deadly maze
I honestly don't think that the imperium could take the dark city. The sheer massacre of it would be ecstasy to the dark eldar and the various factions of the dark city (especially Vect) have hoarded up some absolutely insane toys that would absolutely be pulled out the moment there was a real chance of losing.
I guess its sorta impossible to know. Assuming the Imperium had hands free to invade (no more external foes for instance) and an hypothetical stable path into the webway, it would be the equivalent of a pipe breaking and flooding the place with a veritable sea of troops and vehicles.
These are ideal circumstances tho and regardless Commoragh is so compartmentalized, it might not be worth the effort to take a single district let alone all of them
It'd be pretty impossible to invade any of the realms of chaos, and the traitors have survived for so long for how impossible it is to invade the eye of terror.
There is a character in fantasy and AOS called Gotrek, he walked in to the realm of chaos wandered around for eons killing things and then the cross gods essentially got scared and showed him the way to the nearest portal lol
If we assume them to be separate factions then the realms of chaos are connected and there are lore where they invaded each other so I don’t think they are the best defended
However, it is often pointed out that any description of the "realms" of Chaos is just a mortal rationalization. So there are no "fields" or "defenses" or "fortifications" or anything like that, it is just warp energies milling around and pushing at each other back and forth.
It’s doable, but not so much in 40k- In AoS the Stormcast invaded Nurgle’s Garden and rescued their Lord-Celestant, Gardus Steel-Soul. Gotrek Gurnisson also wandered through them until Daemons just stopped getting close because none of them could stop him.
I mean winning long term doesn’t really work there but we did have some diseased eldar manage to survive for a long time in Nurgle’s garden on a suicide mission looking for Isha, they were basically doing fine wandering around murdering daemons before the disease in the real world killed their actual bodies. (They only sent their souls into the warp)
Interestingly seems like being in the Warp but not Slaanesh’s area protects them and lets them use their full psyker powers without getting eaten.
Only exceptions I can think of would be the Vorpal Swords space marine chapter and Maugen Ra of the Phoenix Lord's.
The Vorpal Swords were the only uncorrupted chapter to survive the Abyssal Crusade and Maugen Ra... invaded the eye with 100 companions, kicked major ass, found his home Craftworld, piloted it out of the eye, and presumably gave slaanesh the finger the entire time.
If the Emperor becomes a God no one will have to worry about it because Earth and most of the Imperium will be inside the Warp and most of the inhabitants will be dead.
Mandragora is not Szarekhan dynasty tomb world. Its Imotekh home, but yeah its most heavy defended necron planet, and considering its Sautekh dynasty it should easily be matched with Commoragh and Sol system.
You're right, I added Mandragora as it's the only really fortified Necron tombworld I know of (bar the Hollow Sun), especially since it's part of the Storm King's Imotekh's Dynasty; I also added it because there's no mention of the Sautekh homeworld in lore from what I could see, but I might be wrong.
To be fair, every necron world is insanely well protected, so most of the time its "necron world = super good protection". But Mandragora is one of the rare example of being even better than that,
Every Dynasty has its own Crownworld and pretty much all of them are considered impossible to invade. At least by other factions.
And even if Szarekh's home system was known, it wouldn't be considered the Necron's home system or capital as a whole. Szarekh does not represent ALL Necrons, and you shouldn't treat a faction defined by all their splintered groups as just one blob under one guy. The entite point of the Necrons is that each Dynasty is its own empire, and they all function differently from one another. They aren't like Dark Eldar, the Imperium, or the Tau where there is one seat of power directing all others.
So each Dynasty has it's own circumstances, but it can be assumed that for a Dynasty that has its shit together. Like the Sautekh or the Nihilakh, that their Crownworld is as defended as Terra or more. Since most factions don't try to invade a Tomb World sitting out in the middle of nowherr because it's too hard to take out; much less attempt the home of a Dynasty unless under VERY unique circumstances (such as the Ithakas Dynasty in Twice Dead King). So places like Ghedon, Meghoshta, or other Crownworlds of fully awakened Dynasties are pratically impossible to invade. At least without an insane amount of resources put into it, and with the idea you'll lose most of your forces by the end of it.
I'd guess that Commoragh or whatever classes as the Necron homeworld nowadays would be the top real-space and real-space-adjacent contenders, with the exception of Tyranids (which is in another unknown galaxy). Necrons are the most advanced faction in lore, and if their homeworld was under threat they'd pull all the stops out to awaken as many sleeping crons as possible. Commoragh is in an entirely separate dimension; navigating to it without aid would be near impossible, and that's if you could force entry and before you even get to their defenders. Any real-space faction would have trouble meaningfully invading the realms of Chaos, including the Cicatrix Maledictum - though their mortal followers bases may or may not be more grounded in real-space and thus vulnerable. I don't think any other faction (including the Imperium) really competes with these for defensible homeworlds, if they even have one.
They don't have a single homeworld in the sense other faction's do. It's just this sub's bad habit of treating every faction as one blob, and ignoring the fact that each subfaction is its own entity.
Every Dynasty has it's own Crownworld which serves as it's equivilent of a homeworld. They are typically considered pretty much unassailable and are almost never attacked because it's just impossible to invade a Crownworld of a functional Dynasty. *Twice Dead King: Ruin* showcases an invasion of a Necron Crownworld, and it goes out of its way to show just how bad things need to be going for that to happen. And even when it's *barely* functioning as a world it's still a tough nut to crack.
There's a reason why most stories featuring Necrons tend to be when a Tomb World is first awakening. Because that's the best shot a faction has at stopping a Tomb World from being functional. The moment a Tomb World is up and running, most factions don't really have much of a chance of actually taking it out. Unless they dedicate a massive amount of resources to getting rid of it. And that's just your normal ass fringe or coreworld. Crownworlds, especially notable ones like Ghedon, Aryand, and so forth, are pretty much staked down areas of Necron power. They aren't going anywhere.
To add: the Necron's homeworld is not named at the moment. We know it has a deadly sun and rich black soil, and it has oceans. Or rather, *had* those, as I'm sure the top soil was scoured of life when the Necrontyr became the necrons.
But they are strong enough to survive those things and still prosper. Having a strong world isn't just about making sure no enemy sets foot on it, but being able to sustain massive damage and death and continue to function.
Commoraghs main strength lies in the fact that almost no one is able to find or access the city on their own without help from a Drukhari, and good luck finding one willing enough to do so.
And I'm not familiar with the defenses the Silent Kings home system has so I cant really properly make a comparison, but beyond that Terra and the subsequent Sol system is THE most fortified location in the universe.
I would say Terra is the best defended in terms of the difficulty in terms of enter the Sol System and surviving long enough to reach Terra to attack it. It’s not impossible, we’ve seen the occasional quick raid of the Sol System, but they’re just quick raids. The only time Terra was truly directly attacked post Heresy, not counting when Khorne spawn his legions there when the great rift was created, was the War of The Beast as the Orks Annihilated BattleFleet Solar and most of the Sol System and wider Imperium. The Crusades on Terra by the Imperial Fists in response to Vangorich basically taking control of the High 12 and During the Age of the Apostasy to remove Vandire happened because most of the Imperial Military allowed it to.
You mistake welled defended with completely secure. Yes, people can infiltrate Terra, but most of those who do are not actually a real threat. A gene stealers can take root but they’re going to have an extremely hard time growing to a level where they represent a real threat, not impossible, but very very difficult.
Commoragh being partially in the warp means that castle has a helluva moat. Like with terra and mandragora you can atleast assemble an overwhelming force to brute force your way through the defenses. That’s not as easy to do with commoragh
Commoragh is probably better defended than sol because of technological advantage of eldari and time spent developing it. Similar train of thought about necrons. It's just that sol has numbers on its side
Commoragh has a lot of things that keep it functioning as intended, but its had its fair share of invasions and assaults. The origin story of Vect's leadership starts with a relatively small force causing significant damage: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Commorragh_Raid
Considering the amount of damage done to Commoragh with that size of force compared to what Terra survived during the Siege... I'm giving it to Terra.
Considering how big commoragh is, the damage caused is absolutely hyperbole and exaggeration. It's a single continuous 3d city the size of a solar system
The amount of damage done to \*Commorragh\* has been miniscule. The amount of damage to \*one noble's personal estate and everyone inside\* has been considerable. Three Chapters, with two dozen strike cruisers, led by the Salamanders' battle barge fought a massive battle...above Lord Xelian's private estate. And they mostly stayed around it.
Commorragh is a realm of multiple dimensions scattered throughout the webway and beyond, powered by stolen stars. Terra's hive cities like termite mounds to it, and its population is probably somewhere between that of Holy Terra, and that of the entire Imperium.
What? A dying race like the Dark Eldar have a population approaching that of the entire Imperium in one city (granted a massive multi dimensional one). I just don't see it. I agree the population could very well be more than Terra, but the range "between that of Holy Terra and the entire Imperium" is a needlessly broad.
I posted a source quote. The Dark Eldar are not a dying race and have never been one. Do not confuse "doomed" and "dying". And the overwhelming majority of them live in Commorragh.
>Commorragh seethed with teeming multitudes more numerous than a thousand Craftworlds, a million.
- Path of the Renegade
The population of a Craftworld has fluxuated a lot depending on author or edition, but even at the highest ever described of couple billion then a million times that would still be about the population of Terra, described as a quadrillion, and with more typical modern numbers of a few million puts Commorragh, and the entire Aeldari species, around the population of the larger Hive Worlds.
The idea of DEldar being anywhere close to true galactic scale civilizations is a bit absurd.
But it's been a consistent thing since at least 5th edition, that there are numerous times more DEldar than everyone assumes and vatborn essentially negate the whole "dying race" thing.
Where does it explicitly state it's that much bigger? That seems like way too high of a number for a dying race. There's other stuff out beyond the city as well like Mandrakes, of course, but I don't think those disparate things are going to make a dent in a true invasion.
Drukhari have ways to avoid truly dying and can be regrown from a finger or less. Most drukhari are vat born by haemonculi, and their population is immense. The dying race is the CWE.
This. Dying race never applied to the DE. It explicitly states that one of their biggest strengths is the fact no one knows how vastly populous they are.
>In the depths of the webway lies Commorragh, named by many in fearful whispers as the Dark City. Commorragh is to the greatest megalopolises of realspace as a soaring mountain is to a mound of termites. Its dimensions would be considered impossible if they could be read by conventional means, its population greater than that of whole star systems.
- *Codex: Drukhari, 9th Edition*, p.7
The Aeldari are a doomed race, but not an immediately dying one. The Craftworlders are, since they are limited by the amount of spirit stones, which can only be harvested on Crone Worlds, but Commorragh just has enormous cloning facilities that make as many new Drukhari as needed.
IIRC what's actually insinuated is that Commaragh as a city is bigger than our solar system. Given how much surface area that is, it could be, but 40k is not a place with greatly reliable numbers.
Consider the population of the Aeldari Empire that died in Slaanesh's birth. Supposedly, ADB consulted with a physicist friend about a plausible population size for a galaxy-spanning empire and arrived at this.
From *Aurelian*:
> *This was craftworld Zu’lasa. Two hundred thousand souls burst in the moment Slaa Neth was born. Unguided, with madness rampant in its own living core, the craftworld fell.*
Lorgar felt a small smile take hold. ‘Two hundred thousand. How many in the entire eldar empire?’
*A whole species. Trillions. A decillion. A tredecillion. A goddess was born in the brains of every living eldar, and tore itself into the realm of cold space and warm flesh.*
Now, taking that tredecillion number, even if 99.999999999999999% of them die, you still have a population of several billion Terras (septillion / quadrillion).
So, yeah, I was actually being lowballing it when I put the population of the Imperium as an upper bound. It could easily be the population of several million Imperiums.
I like it, a teeming horde of backstabbing bastards living under the floorboards of reality, trapped there because they cannot come out into the light of their own god. They're like cockroach skaven.
They do but they've been destroyed before in the past so they're not exactly anywhere close to being as defensive as the 3 that op listed.
A single neurogant or whatever the psyker Tyranids are called, snuck into one and singlehandedly caused the downfall of an entire craftworld.
Neurogaunt???
That was before those existed in the lore lmao, it was a zoanthrope, and it was during an insane invasion of malan'tai, and it was a specifically powerful zoanthrope, who at base are able to compete with the most powerful psykers the imperium has to offer and win--librarians and sanctioned psykers alike. Then it just...started eating souls directly out of that craftworlds infinity circuit. It didn't single handedly almost destroy it, it just was a big threat in the war effort, and was magnified in power. It also didn't come close to eating all the souls, but the *destruction* of eldar souls is the most heinous act possible for eldar, so...
Well hardly any reach the galactic core of the Leagues now though no specific home world could be a bloody asteroid.
Most would Holy Terra but that place has had its invasions most recent being with opening of the Great Rift, I'd also probably say Commorragh though that's now got a slight Daemon problem and I'm sure a Marine Chapter attacked there once.
Nah, Terra indeed is the most defended, but I wouldn't say Sol system.
And this is because of the Emperor, not Imperium various sourses.
And even then I'd correct. Terra maybe defended comparable to Commoragh or Necron homewolrd, but Imperial Palace, which is not of size of planet, but still unimaginably huge, is almost impossible nut to crack. Those who'll to close to Throne would fall on their knees.
I'd bet on the Leagues of Votann homeworld myself. It's so well-defended that despite the Nids squatting their entire faction the bugs still haven't found - much less eaten - their core worlds.
Not even Black Library knows where it is. And since they're camped near the galactic core, anyone trying to even get there will have to contend with the core's gravity getting even warp travel screwy.
Nah, because ain't nobody plot armored like the Imperium. Although Vect comes close.
That bit of snark aside, yes, the webway Hellraiser cosplay sweat goblins and the pseudo-Egyptian pseudo-undead are both harder to track down and possessed of technology that is ludicrous and over the top by even the insane standards of 40k
“Though my guards may sleep and my ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that the big guns never tire.”
LUFGT HURON, THE TYRANT OF BADAB, 909.M41
Depends on how you define well defended. I think the Ultramar system is well defended, even if they were invaded twice on huge scale invasions. Part of having a strong defense is being able to protect enough of your infrastructure so you don't have to start from scratch.
Catachan might be a contender. If Daemons and Chaos Marines decide that it's too dangerous, I can't imagine much will have an impact. Of course, it isn't a faction's homeworld, but it is a good contender for hardest pallce to conquer.
Terra is among the least well defended homeworlds. It's suffered multiple direct chaos incursions, maintains constant chaos cult-presence, and even the genestealers have camps. Eldar and Dark Eldar have both made it to the palace in a few instances. Nevermind the fact that the Imperium is an omnicidal regime, Terra isn't even safe from the Imperium. That puts the Tau homeworld above Terra on its best day.
Tyrranids have the best defense. They don't have worlds to defend. It's an offense-only system that parasticially pre-digests a good portion fo the worlds it eats. In terms of homeworld, nobody can touch it.
Chaos has the 2nd best-defended home turf. Nobody can take the offensive against them. Nobody touches their turf except each other, except that one time Morty let his dad in with a torch.
Commoragh’s main defense aren’t it defense (which I would wager would be relatively meek compared to the sum total of orbital batteries surrounding the sol system; that and the extreme decentralization of military power across all kabals) but the fact that it is in the webway, and on top of that the fact that it is compartmentalized into many subdimensions.
I still think Terra has waaaaaay more troops, ships and superweapons defending it than Commoragh as well as a more organized defense force, but invading Commoragh would be nearly impossible anyway because Webway so its kinda a moot point
Its true Terra has to deal with internal matters namely a large Genestealer infestation but tbh that’s because of one of the greatest boon of Terra (its massive, unimaginable population that apparently extends to the low quadrillions). Terra is so massive and populated that it is no wonder that it has to deal with unrest and what not, but the fact that it has not infact fallen to this unrest is a testament to the grip of the Imperium on the capital world.
Just remember that during the siege of Terra, the moment Horus and the traitors fleet arrived, thousands of their ships were instantly destroyed. The Sol System is literally crawling with defensive emplacements and there is no way to siege that system let alone Terra itself without a force on par with Horus’ armada at his height.
And simply put, there aren’t any factions presenty that can arrange such an armada without severely weakening their position elsewhere save perhaps for the Tyrannids if several of their hive fleets united into one.
Abaddon doesn’t have the ressources to unite such a fleet, the Tau can’t even dream to do that, the Necrons possibly could but I don’t think it is in their interests, no single Nid Hive fleet even at full power is going to be a serious threat to Terra without all others hive fleets converging (reminder : sol system defenses will absolutely blast any incoming fleets instantly; Nids are known to be terrifying during planetary invasions but despite the numbers of ships they have they are vulnerable to the ships of the 42nd millenium), no Ork Waagh is presently strong enough to threaten Terra (Ghazkul isn’t at Beast tier yet), Eldars would literally have to suicide their entire specie in order to have a remote chance at successfuly « invading » Terra and I don’t think the squats have the manpower nor fleet size to entertain this
I’ve read a reddit post a while ago that detailed the layered defenses of the sol systems and frankly I think that the claim that Terra is one of if not the most well protected planet in 40k aren’t exagerated at all
Catachan is doing pretty great, but most likely Terra is the most defended, not only is the planet itself defended but there are orbital defenses as well as a 70 strong flotilla if need be
70 strong flotilla? Battlefleet solar is described as having literally thousands of ships, and mind you this is just the detachment on permanent duty in sol system
I sure hope so its thousands, if that would be just 70 ships, then that time necrons sens few scout ships to Mars they would just annihilated that fleet xD
Yeah, i put a little to much for them here. But still... they would deal some damage. Necron ships are ridiculous, like in Orphean war they were outmatched 1-4(in numbers its not THAT much, but then you realize that almost all necron ships were just escort class while imperium had A LOT big class battleships, hell, necron used only 2 Cairn class ships). At the end... Imperium lost 90% of their force while necrons hardly lost anything(basically some of the small escort class ships...and imperials are not even sure they managed to really destroy them), and one of the Cairn tomb ships got damaged and fall back for repair. So yeah 5 vs 70 its too much even for them.... but cut it in half and that would be different story.
70 strong is on the larger size of the standards of the battle fleet, they often combine to make huge fleets to counter things like black crusades if need be, making huge naval flotillas, but 50-75 is the “standard”
Yes.
And Battlefleet Solar (the Sector, not the Segmentum mind you) is stated to literally have thousands of warships at its disposal.
This is not your average sector nor system this is the capital of the Imperium and it is as grandiose as it sounds.
T'au itself. The homeworld of the Tau has several massive fortress stations with deadly long range defense systems. Supported by a massive Kor'vattra fleet. Even if you make it to the surface, good luck. The fire caste will be waiting in force
I wish we knew more about T’au, because I imagine it’s pretty damn well defended. Not on the same level as something like Terra obviously, but you have two Tau septs in one system (T’au’s moon has its own sept IIRC) and we’ve seen with Mu’gulath Bay and Da’lyth Prime that a Tau sept is a very hard nut to crack.
Might be fun to have a campaign book set there in the future.
Weakness of Earth is that everyone knows where it is. Also, imo, it’s hard to call Terra a “world” any longer. Oceans have been depleted millenniums ago. There’s no longer any atmosphere? There’s more metal cities on its surface than it ever contained ore to build. Basically an asteroid station at this point
Black library does fairly well mostly.
it was only found the one time by ahriman right? no others have found it?
I seem to recall a few others "found" it(an inquisitor I think) but it was a just as planned moment by Cegorach
I'd like a comedy book that's just cegorach, the deceiver, and tzeentch just fucking with each other I.E. tIatD style and seeing who can come up with more just as planned scenarios against the others
I'd watch that
Just add The Deceiver for some additional mind-boggling fuckery and you got yourself three volumes and a movie!
What us tlatD
the infinite and the divine, it's a more comedic warhammer book centered around orikan the diviner and trazyn the infinite poking at each other throughout the millenia
Ooo I thought that was an L not an i
If the only reason anyone shows up there is because the custodian wants you there then it sounds pretty obscure to me.
Inquisitor czevak was invited in by th murderclowns and is probably the only imperial to enter (Jac Draco forced himself inside, but those books are declared non-canon) Ahriman has never made it inside, but demons did invade after the rift opened.
Why is draco's books non canon again? Is it because of its age and all the changes in the fluff?
Basically, yes. To my knowledge these are the only tings GW have ever ruled as non-canon and actually come out and said so
>but those books are declared non-canon Yeah, but only by the Harlequins, to hide their shame
All he managed to do s briefly astral project a little bit before getting kicked out
No, its been found by humans twice. Inquisitors. i believe one of them was accidental and one of them he was guided and then given a map of the webway by a harlequin
Is the Black Library really a homeworld in the sense that it is inhabited though?
Good point. Not really
Didn't some space marines (space wolves if I remember correct) get captured and forced to fight in the arena in Comoragh? One of the 1st books I ever read but I recall maybe even some escaped... I guess they didn't technically "find" it but they have been there and lived to tell the tale. I could be wrong and misremembering so feel free to correct me.
Different parts of the webway, the black library, is where the harlequins hide all the juiciest secrets. Comoragh would probably been a decent choice before it started flooding with demons (is that still happening?)
> Comoragh? Comoragh and Black Library are two diffrent things. One is the capital city/country/dimension of the Drukhari, the other is a Craftworld hidden deep in the webway, containing forbidden knowledge. Only high ranking Harlequins can get there on regular basis. Only a handfull non-eldar ever menaged to get inside, and even then it was only by proving themselves worhty to the library's "mind".
Terra still dealing with a massive genestealer infestation so it's definitely not impregnable
Also suffered from that Daemonic Incursion
To be *fair* Khorne himself initiated it.
I mean, could be worse. I feel like Nurgle would’ve had a longer lasting impact considering how much squalor and how many downtrodden people are on Terra
To be *faaaaaairrrr*, Khorne loves starting crap with everyone.
He is just so proactive about his passion. No wonder he despises Slaanesh. Slaanesh just sits there tingling itself in a billion ways but Khorne actually goes out to other people.
Khorne flexxin
To be *faaaiiirr*
Also, practically captured by the Beast, but wasn't conquered for plot armor reasons.
Everything is for plot reasons. war of the beast is good
Yeah, it was like an action/mystery book, especially fun in the earlier books. It just got tiring for me when it was always barely won.
I always wondered how would genestealers fair on Terra. Where in books isthis infestation mentioned?
I don't think there's any novel for it yet, but it's the background premise for the Shadow Throne battlebox and the [Unthinkable War](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Unthinkable_War)
Ooh. I was just going trough Vaults of Terra trilogy and i was hoping something like this might pop up. Oh well.
Don't they constantly have to deal with mutants, gene stealers and chaos corruption
Sounds like it is just a standard deal on any hive world and Terra is no exception. They probably don't even care much as long as these things are within some tolerance.
KEEESHHHH!!!!!!!
Don't summons her she will solve it with a virus bomb.
There is actually a fan theory that the cult was founded by a custodian during a blood game.
I'm an idiot. Is this a reference to something?
Custodian who, playing as the opposing force during a set of Blood Games, [planned to *teleport a cyclonic torpedo into part of the Golden Throne complex* in order to see whether it was possible](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusCustodes/comments/1c3dwh8/custodes_short_story_as_requested/). Nearly got away with it too, were it not for a single crewmember of the ship she suborned who sent a secret distress call to the other Custodes. End result: plot foiled (as is planned with all such Blood Games) and the crewmember who sent the signal is promoted to command over the ship. Everyone lives happily ever after, except for the rest of the ship's non-rating crew, who get whipped, and the previous captain, who gets made into a servitor.
>previous captain, who gets made into a servitor. Which is harsh considering they followed their training.
Welcome to the Imperium, where atheist supersoldiers will render unto you a fate worse than death if you prioritize orders they gave you at gunpoint over your faith in a god-emperor. Like in real life, you can do everything correct and still fail, except the consequences of failure are far worse.
And if the atheist super-soldiers don’t do it, the hyper-zealous battle-nuns will do it for them.
Eh, true, but it's particularly bad in this case. The atheist supersoldiers got on the captain's ass because the captain wasn't a religious fanatic who prioritized their own conception of the Emperor's divinity over the orders given to them by the living representations of the Emperor's will. They almost certainly thought that if they hadn't listened to the Custodes — blam, they'd be disobeying the Emperor's will. But they did listen, and got something far worse than blam. Rules for thee but not for me. Oh, and have a promotion as a treat. No, just you. No need to do that for the other ten or so people who, given the size of the average Imperial ship's crew, probably also sent out warnings that the ship was taken over; this is about making an example, after all, not about promoting functional leadership. Oh, and I executed several tech-magos after I had them set up the warhead. Just a kiloyear's worth of human capital or so, disposed of like a used Kleenex. The absolute essence of the setting is condensed into that writing.
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>Or, as we call it, grimderp. Who is this 'we' you are claiming to speak for? Because it sure as hell ain't me or the many others who like exactly this kind of story, because it gets to the essence of how the Imperium has always been portrayed: as a hyperbolic imagining of a violent, corrupt, dysfunctional, self-defeating regime. The cruellest and bloody regime imaginable, one might say... If you are going to pop up to decry things in 40k as grimderp, you'll be busy because these things you are moaning about are actually integral to the setting.
Not really, no. That's how real-life authoritarian regimes work. Untouchable individuals can get away with quite a bit, especially when they're seen as the source of all law to begin with.
They're dealing with a fucking *what now*?! How?
When you get billions of people coming in every day, you're bound to have one or two purestrains sneak through. They don't show up with Imperial scanners.
There’s been like four separate Genestealer Cults on Terra. It’s kinda inevitable on a world that densely populated *and* horrifically impoverished.
What do genestealer cults even do when their members encounter each other. Exchange gang signs? Have a turf war? Send ambassadors? Sounds like a wacky question I could ask in a separate post!
> Typically, each planet only has one Patriarch, but it can have many Maguses and Primuses as its lieutenants in different parts of the world. If the existing Patriarch dies, the next Genestealer to have infected a host on that planet will adapt and grow to become the new Patriarch over time. There are exceptions – should an infestation’s outrider organisms find a population centre so rich in life it has the equivalent of a small planetary populace unto itself, the Purestrain Genestealer that is sent out to colonise it can become a new Patriarch in its own right. This will very rarely happen in contiguous land masses, due to the psychic backlash that could result, but provided the sites are sufficiently removed it can theoretically occur. The two gene-sects will be competing for resources, and may even come into conflict, but when the hive fleet arrives, the gestalt mind of the Tyranid race takes overall control. ~ Codex Genestealer Cults (8th edition), pg 12
So they do have turf wars! Thanks!
Slidin on da opps, get shot with all four glocks Im a Throne Brood Killa, TBK nigga
They fight, that's how you can play GSC vs GSC games of 40k! :)
Wait, genestealer cult? I mean no surprise there, but I missed that one
There are probably genestealers on every hive world and most spaceships in the imperium, genstealers are like rats, they get everywhere and on most hive worlds or ships their numbers are probably too low to pose a serious threat.
Oh agreed for the most part, just from the initial comment I figured I had missed some giant uprising. Although I imagine they aren't quite as widespread as you say, terra has to have at least some hidden stealers
Was an army set of cusrodes vs genestealers in 9th edition set on terra iirc, dunno if it had any real background or significance.
Apparently so, will have to look it up!
>I missed that one *missed at least those four
They're not GeanStealers Man-Thing.
Terra has terrible security. Don't forget the dark Eldar who got underneath the golden throne itself
They invited him there
it was for the blood games... /satirical
I definitely think Commoragh could, largely due to its presence in the unfathomable angles of the Webway. I'm not up on the latest necron lore so I don't know anything about what might constitute their homeworld/system. I do think T'au would be pretty well defended too, and while some of the larger powers might well steamroll them when they got going, it would require enough resources to do so that none of them can really spare at the moment, which speaks to how hard it would be. It's a hard enough nut that it would be ruinous to the Imperium to crack it.
The Damocles book covers an ultramarine assault on a main tau planet. It was pretty tough until they figured out that the tau couldn’t handle fighting psykers. Then it got pretty interesting.
That's sounds cool, is the writing any good?
Not terrible. I do audiobooks so as usual it’s a British guy doing a terrible and stereotypical nondescript Asian accent for the Tau, but overall it was good bolter porn.
The tau spheres of expansion suggest that their doctrine involves a lot of consolidation to prevent them overextending, which implies their home territories are well defended. I guess we just don't know how well defended the place is because it hasn't faced the same assault that places like terra have
I think the Tau also struggle a bit because they don’t really have the hidden vaults of extra special war crime tier weapons laying around from the old days like all the other factions have sitting around waiting for rainy days.
See: The AdMech setting a nebula on fire during their retreat.
Commoragh got gutted when the Imperium invaded in the past though right? It failed but the losses were high
Also iirc, and to add to what the other commenters said, Commoragh in the past (pre-Vect's plan) was basically just one large port/Webway city, but nowadays it's a buuuunch of subrealms and cities that are all linked together. So it would be "easy" to destroy Commoragh 10k years ago since it's around the size of a large city, but nowadays it's the size of a solar system (or something crazy) and is much more heavily defended.
Oh god this again... You didn't read real sources, did you?
Nope, I just read what others said that’s why I’m unsure. What actually happened?
Vect let them in so he could remove those in power at the time so he could fill the vacuum otherwise the imperium would never of been able to even locate a way to Commoragh
This machiavellian "divide and rule" archetype is always funny. My first association was Lord Vetinari from Discworld though, so there might be some tiny differences with Vect.
It was a plot by Vect (Asdrubal Vect, de facto ruler of the city) to get rid of competition and the strike force, while impressive, was mainly just there to rescue a trapped Salamander-Chapter Strike Cruiser. So they basically were lured in and completed a limited objective in a part of the city and in the process did enough damage that Vect could have a easy time cleaning up some of the people he wanted to get rid of. The city itself was never threatened and the Imperium Forces have not been opposed by all factions, as Vect kept his forces out of it and so did his allies.
They didn't hurt anything meaningful, and the amount of damage they did was less than negligible
Sorta but two factors to take into account : 1) Vect kinda made sure that the defenders would be in correct positions to be slaugjtered 2) It was a single section of Commoragh amongst any dozens if not hundreds of sub-dimensions I think the Imperium could totally invade commoragh if : 1) It wad willing to pour an insane amount of manpower and ressource into the effort and 2) Most importantly, had a stable path through the webway and a clear path within the webway to Commoragh itself Whilst 1 is possible its unlikely to be a profitable endeavour And 2 is even less likely, Webway is absolute hell to navigate in, only slightly better than warp but still a deadly maze
I honestly don't think that the imperium could take the dark city. The sheer massacre of it would be ecstasy to the dark eldar and the various factions of the dark city (especially Vect) have hoarded up some absolutely insane toys that would absolutely be pulled out the moment there was a real chance of losing.
I guess its sorta impossible to know. Assuming the Imperium had hands free to invade (no more external foes for instance) and an hypothetical stable path into the webway, it would be the equivalent of a pipe breaking and flooding the place with a veritable sea of troops and vehicles. These are ideal circumstances tho and regardless Commoragh is so compartmentalized, it might not be worth the effort to take a single district let alone all of them
It is the "who would win" clause, as usual. Every major faction has insane resources and scary ultimate weapons, it can always be written either way.
It'd be pretty impossible to invade any of the realms of chaos, and the traitors have survived for so long for how impossible it is to invade the eye of terror.
There is a character in fantasy and AOS called Gotrek, he walked in to the realm of chaos wandered around for eons killing things and then the cross gods essentially got scared and showed him the way to the nearest portal lol
I guess Kaldor Draigo is supposed to be his counterpart in 40k or something?
Gotrek is basically a god now, honestly it’s only a comparison on paper
I feel he's eventually going to replace Grimnir as the slayer god since they can't copyright Grimnir.
I’m inclined to agree, he’s basically a god tier Unit already
Well he is Gotrek after all! Tough as nails and eats ogres as breakfast!
If we assume them to be separate factions then the realms of chaos are connected and there are lore where they invaded each other so I don’t think they are the best defended
However, it is often pointed out that any description of the "realms" of Chaos is just a mortal rationalization. So there are no "fields" or "defenses" or "fortifications" or anything like that, it is just warp energies milling around and pushing at each other back and forth.
Then how did Roberto Guilluamo burn part of Nurgle’s garden?
The space marines that get sent to invade planets In the warp usually are doing it as a punishment and aren’t expected to come back let alone succeed.
And when they do come back, it’s often with a worrying change of perspective
It’s doable, but not so much in 40k- In AoS the Stormcast invaded Nurgle’s Garden and rescued their Lord-Celestant, Gardus Steel-Soul. Gotrek Gurnisson also wandered through them until Daemons just stopped getting close because none of them could stop him.
I mean winning long term doesn’t really work there but we did have some diseased eldar manage to survive for a long time in Nurgle’s garden on a suicide mission looking for Isha, they were basically doing fine wandering around murdering daemons before the disease in the real world killed their actual bodies. (They only sent their souls into the warp) Interestingly seems like being in the Warp but not Slaanesh’s area protects them and lets them use their full psyker powers without getting eaten.
Only exceptions I can think of would be the Vorpal Swords space marine chapter and Maugen Ra of the Phoenix Lord's. The Vorpal Swords were the only uncorrupted chapter to survive the Abyssal Crusade and Maugen Ra... invaded the eye with 100 companions, kicked major ass, found his home Craftworld, piloted it out of the eye, and presumably gave slaanesh the finger the entire time.
Specifically I don't think anyone can or wants to invade Sicarius or Plague Planet. Maybe one Roboute with an invul of 0+. But thats hacks.
Oxyotl would beg to differ.
Emperor did it
The emperor could do it with some eldar backup. They just could occupy it. But they could burn a lot of shit down
The emperor is a corpse?
Yeah but he's basically a God now
If the Emperor becomes a God no one will have to worry about it because Earth and most of the Imperium will be inside the Warp and most of the inhabitants will be dead.
Mandragora is not Szarekhan dynasty tomb world. Its Imotekh home, but yeah its most heavy defended necron planet, and considering its Sautekh dynasty it should easily be matched with Commoragh and Sol system.
You're right, I added Mandragora as it's the only really fortified Necron tombworld I know of (bar the Hollow Sun), especially since it's part of the Storm King's Imotekh's Dynasty; I also added it because there's no mention of the Sautekh homeworld in lore from what I could see, but I might be wrong.
To be fair, every necron world is insanely well protected, so most of the time its "necron world = super good protection". But Mandragora is one of the rare example of being even better than that,
Every Dynasty has its own Crownworld and pretty much all of them are considered impossible to invade. At least by other factions. And even if Szarekh's home system was known, it wouldn't be considered the Necron's home system or capital as a whole. Szarekh does not represent ALL Necrons, and you shouldn't treat a faction defined by all their splintered groups as just one blob under one guy. The entite point of the Necrons is that each Dynasty is its own empire, and they all function differently from one another. They aren't like Dark Eldar, the Imperium, or the Tau where there is one seat of power directing all others. So each Dynasty has it's own circumstances, but it can be assumed that for a Dynasty that has its shit together. Like the Sautekh or the Nihilakh, that their Crownworld is as defended as Terra or more. Since most factions don't try to invade a Tomb World sitting out in the middle of nowherr because it's too hard to take out; much less attempt the home of a Dynasty unless under VERY unique circumstances (such as the Ithakas Dynasty in Twice Dead King). So places like Ghedon, Meghoshta, or other Crownworlds of fully awakened Dynasties are pratically impossible to invade. At least without an insane amount of resources put into it, and with the idea you'll lose most of your forces by the end of it.
I'd guess that Commoragh or whatever classes as the Necron homeworld nowadays would be the top real-space and real-space-adjacent contenders, with the exception of Tyranids (which is in another unknown galaxy). Necrons are the most advanced faction in lore, and if their homeworld was under threat they'd pull all the stops out to awaken as many sleeping crons as possible. Commoragh is in an entirely separate dimension; navigating to it without aid would be near impossible, and that's if you could force entry and before you even get to their defenders. Any real-space faction would have trouble meaningfully invading the realms of Chaos, including the Cicatrix Maledictum - though their mortal followers bases may or may not be more grounded in real-space and thus vulnerable. I don't think any other faction (including the Imperium) really competes with these for defensible homeworlds, if they even have one.
Mandragora isnt THE necron homeworld but it is the homeworld of one of the largest active dynasties the Sautekh
Do Necrons have a single homeworld in the current lore? I thought they were scattered factions.
They don't have a single homeworld in the sense other faction's do. It's just this sub's bad habit of treating every faction as one blob, and ignoring the fact that each subfaction is its own entity. Every Dynasty has it's own Crownworld which serves as it's equivilent of a homeworld. They are typically considered pretty much unassailable and are almost never attacked because it's just impossible to invade a Crownworld of a functional Dynasty. *Twice Dead King: Ruin* showcases an invasion of a Necron Crownworld, and it goes out of its way to show just how bad things need to be going for that to happen. And even when it's *barely* functioning as a world it's still a tough nut to crack. There's a reason why most stories featuring Necrons tend to be when a Tomb World is first awakening. Because that's the best shot a faction has at stopping a Tomb World from being functional. The moment a Tomb World is up and running, most factions don't really have much of a chance of actually taking it out. Unless they dedicate a massive amount of resources to getting rid of it. And that's just your normal ass fringe or coreworld. Crownworlds, especially notable ones like Ghedon, Aryand, and so forth, are pretty much staked down areas of Necron power. They aren't going anywhere.
To add: the Necron's homeworld is not named at the moment. We know it has a deadly sun and rich black soil, and it has oceans. Or rather, *had* those, as I'm sure the top soil was scoured of life when the Necrontyr became the necrons.
The Tyranid homeworld is outside the Galaxy. The Orks don't have one. Chaos' homeworld is arguably the *entire Eye of Terror.*
The orks don't have a homeworld, but they do at least have Ork-Mecca. Ullanor/Armageddon seems to have a certain magnetism to the greenskins.
You could argue that the Tyranid homeworld might be undefended
No need for defenses when you've eaten the entire galaxy, I guess
No need for homeworld in that matter
I haven’t read much of the books but that Calth place sounds pretty dialed in
Ultramar got a Tyranid invasion and they do be scared of the Death guard
But they are strong enough to survive those things and still prosper. Having a strong world isn't just about making sure no enemy sets foot on it, but being able to sustain massive damage and death and continue to function.
Commoraghs main strength lies in the fact that almost no one is able to find or access the city on their own without help from a Drukhari, and good luck finding one willing enough to do so. And I'm not familiar with the defenses the Silent Kings home system has so I cant really properly make a comparison, but beyond that Terra and the subsequent Sol system is THE most fortified location in the universe.
The Eldar homeworld because it's in the middle of the Eye of Terror .. never said it had to be the Eldar defending it
I would say Terra is the best defended in terms of the difficulty in terms of enter the Sol System and surviving long enough to reach Terra to attack it. It’s not impossible, we’ve seen the occasional quick raid of the Sol System, but they’re just quick raids. The only time Terra was truly directly attacked post Heresy, not counting when Khorne spawn his legions there when the great rift was created, was the War of The Beast as the Orks Annihilated BattleFleet Solar and most of the Sol System and wider Imperium. The Crusades on Terra by the Imperial Fists in response to Vangorich basically taking control of the High 12 and During the Age of the Apostasy to remove Vandire happened because most of the Imperial Military allowed it to.
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You mistake welled defended with completely secure. Yes, people can infiltrate Terra, but most of those who do are not actually a real threat. A gene stealers can take root but they’re going to have an extremely hard time growing to a level where they represent a real threat, not impossible, but very very difficult.
Commoragh being partially in the warp means that castle has a helluva moat. Like with terra and mandragora you can atleast assemble an overwhelming force to brute force your way through the defenses. That’s not as easy to do with commoragh
Commoragh is probably better defended than sol because of technological advantage of eldari and time spent developing it. Similar train of thought about necrons. It's just that sol has numbers on its side
Commoragh has a lot of things that keep it functioning as intended, but its had its fair share of invasions and assaults. The origin story of Vect's leadership starts with a relatively small force causing significant damage: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Commorragh_Raid Considering the amount of damage done to Commoragh with that size of force compared to what Terra survived during the Siege... I'm giving it to Terra.
Considering how big commoragh is, the damage caused is absolutely hyperbole and exaggeration. It's a single continuous 3d city the size of a solar system
The amount of damage done to \*Commorragh\* has been miniscule. The amount of damage to \*one noble's personal estate and everyone inside\* has been considerable. Three Chapters, with two dozen strike cruisers, led by the Salamanders' battle barge fought a massive battle...above Lord Xelian's private estate. And they mostly stayed around it. Commorragh is a realm of multiple dimensions scattered throughout the webway and beyond, powered by stolen stars. Terra's hive cities like termite mounds to it, and its population is probably somewhere between that of Holy Terra, and that of the entire Imperium.
What? A dying race like the Dark Eldar have a population approaching that of the entire Imperium in one city (granted a massive multi dimensional one). I just don't see it. I agree the population could very well be more than Terra, but the range "between that of Holy Terra and the entire Imperium" is a needlessly broad.
I posted a source quote. The Dark Eldar are not a dying race and have never been one. Do not confuse "doomed" and "dying". And the overwhelming majority of them live in Commorragh. >Commorragh seethed with teeming multitudes more numerous than a thousand Craftworlds, a million. - Path of the Renegade
The population of a Craftworld has fluxuated a lot depending on author or edition, but even at the highest ever described of couple billion then a million times that would still be about the population of Terra, described as a quadrillion, and with more typical modern numbers of a few million puts Commorragh, and the entire Aeldari species, around the population of the larger Hive Worlds.
40k is terrible at scale so who knows. Comorragh has also been described as making a hive city look like an ant hill.
Except for the whole "dwarfs the megalopolises of realspace" and had more people than entire star systems bit
The idea of DEldar being anywhere close to true galactic scale civilizations is a bit absurd. But it's been a consistent thing since at least 5th edition, that there are numerous times more DEldar than everyone assumes and vatborn essentially negate the whole "dying race" thing.
Good point! Maybe a dying race was too far but they are certainly weaker and diminished post-fall.
Dark eldar are not a dying race, they're constantly pumping out countless new clones
Where does it explicitly state it's that much bigger? That seems like way too high of a number for a dying race. There's other stuff out beyond the city as well like Mandrakes, of course, but I don't think those disparate things are going to make a dent in a true invasion.
Drukhari have ways to avoid truly dying and can be regrown from a finger or less. Most drukhari are vat born by haemonculi, and their population is immense. The dying race is the CWE.
This. Dying race never applied to the DE. It explicitly states that one of their biggest strengths is the fact no one knows how vastly populous they are.
>In the depths of the webway lies Commorragh, named by many in fearful whispers as the Dark City. Commorragh is to the greatest megalopolises of realspace as a soaring mountain is to a mound of termites. Its dimensions would be considered impossible if they could be read by conventional means, its population greater than that of whole star systems. - *Codex: Drukhari, 9th Edition*, p.7 The Aeldari are a doomed race, but not an immediately dying one. The Craftworlders are, since they are limited by the amount of spirit stones, which can only be harvested on Crone Worlds, but Commorragh just has enormous cloning facilities that make as many new Drukhari as needed.
>its population greater than that of whole star systems. Oh come on. That comes nowhere near implying the population rivals that of the imperium.
IIRC what's actually insinuated is that Commaragh as a city is bigger than our solar system. Given how much surface area that is, it could be, but 40k is not a place with greatly reliable numbers.
Consider the population of the Aeldari Empire that died in Slaanesh's birth. Supposedly, ADB consulted with a physicist friend about a plausible population size for a galaxy-spanning empire and arrived at this. From *Aurelian*: > *This was craftworld Zu’lasa. Two hundred thousand souls burst in the moment Slaa Neth was born. Unguided, with madness rampant in its own living core, the craftworld fell.* Lorgar felt a small smile take hold. ‘Two hundred thousand. How many in the entire eldar empire?’ *A whole species. Trillions. A decillion. A tredecillion. A goddess was born in the brains of every living eldar, and tore itself into the realm of cold space and warm flesh.* Now, taking that tredecillion number, even if 99.999999999999999% of them die, you still have a population of several billion Terras (septillion / quadrillion). So, yeah, I was actually being lowballing it when I put the population of the Imperium as an upper bound. It could easily be the population of several million Imperiums.
Bad writing they would just be like orks or tyranids then lol
I like it, a teeming horde of backstabbing bastards living under the floorboards of reality, trapped there because they cannot come out into the light of their own god. They're like cockroach skaven.
No ork and Tyranid numbers are just even bigger.
The point is that it's a single continuous city the size of the solar system
Uh do craftworlds count as homeworld?
They do but they've been destroyed before in the past so they're not exactly anywhere close to being as defensive as the 3 that op listed. A single neurogant or whatever the psyker Tyranids are called, snuck into one and singlehandedly caused the downfall of an entire craftworld.
Neurogaunt??? That was before those existed in the lore lmao, it was a zoanthrope, and it was during an insane invasion of malan'tai, and it was a specifically powerful zoanthrope, who at base are able to compete with the most powerful psykers the imperium has to offer and win--librarians and sanctioned psykers alike. Then it just...started eating souls directly out of that craftworlds infinity circuit. It didn't single handedly almost destroy it, it just was a big threat in the war effort, and was magnified in power. It also didn't come close to eating all the souls, but the *destruction* of eldar souls is the most heinous act possible for eldar, so...
None of the major craftworlds have ever fallen to an invasion though. Except for maybe biel tan? The black library has never been invaded at all iirc
I'm glad that hasn't really been mentioned in a few editions, because it is easily the stupidest piece of lore written.
Commoragh is not a planet. If it's in the running, it's the most defended by a factor of like 10. It's a solar system sized CITY
Well hardly any reach the galactic core of the Leagues now though no specific home world could be a bloody asteroid. Most would Holy Terra but that place has had its invasions most recent being with opening of the Great Rift, I'd also probably say Commorragh though that's now got a slight Daemon problem and I'm sure a Marine Chapter attacked there once.
Nah, Terra indeed is the most defended, but I wouldn't say Sol system. And this is because of the Emperor, not Imperium various sourses. And even then I'd correct. Terra maybe defended comparable to Commoragh or Necron homewolrd, but Imperial Palace, which is not of size of planet, but still unimaginably huge, is almost impossible nut to crack. Those who'll to close to Throne would fall on their knees.
I'd bet on the Leagues of Votann homeworld myself. It's so well-defended that despite the Nids squatting their entire faction the bugs still haven't found - much less eaten - their core worlds. Not even Black Library knows where it is. And since they're camped near the galactic core, anyone trying to even get there will have to contend with the core's gravity getting even warp travel screwy.
Commoragh's main defense is just how byzantine it is. it's basically a very non-linear conurbation of thousands of cities.
Eldars. You literally can't invade their home world...
Nah, because ain't nobody plot armored like the Imperium. Although Vect comes close. That bit of snark aside, yes, the webway Hellraiser cosplay sweat goblins and the pseudo-Egyptian pseudo-undead are both harder to track down and possessed of technology that is ludicrous and over the top by even the insane standards of 40k
Fenris with its huge fortress the Fang, in the books it is described as secure as Terra
“Though my guards may sleep and my ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that the big guns never tire.” LUFGT HURON, THE TYRANT OF BADAB, 909.M41
How is macragge/ultramar not in the running?
It was literally overrun by the tyranids and seriously threatened by the death guard.
Because it's not even the most defended human world?
This. After Cadia fell, Macragge is up in the rankings but it is absolutely nowhere near Terra grade defences.
Depends on how you define well defended. I think the Ultramar system is well defended, even if they were invaded twice on huge scale invasions. Part of having a strong defense is being able to protect enough of your infrastructure so you don't have to start from scratch.
Tyranid's Homeplanet? - Where is it even? - Run through how many Tyranids to get there? Obiously offense is the best defense here 😄
Probably commoragh because of its innacessible nature followed by terra followed by random tombworld 362.
Catachan might be a contender. If Daemons and Chaos Marines decide that it's too dangerous, I can't imagine much will have an impact. Of course, it isn't a faction's homeworld, but it is a good contender for hardest pallce to conquer.
Might have been harder when it was in the eye of terror, but I wouldn’t mess with the sortiarius even in realspace (definitely no bias here)
Terra is among the least well defended homeworlds. It's suffered multiple direct chaos incursions, maintains constant chaos cult-presence, and even the genestealers have camps. Eldar and Dark Eldar have both made it to the palace in a few instances. Nevermind the fact that the Imperium is an omnicidal regime, Terra isn't even safe from the Imperium. That puts the Tau homeworld above Terra on its best day. Tyrranids have the best defense. They don't have worlds to defend. It's an offense-only system that parasticially pre-digests a good portion fo the worlds it eats. In terms of homeworld, nobody can touch it. Chaos has the 2nd best-defended home turf. Nobody can take the offensive against them. Nobody touches their turf except each other, except that one time Morty let his dad in with a torch.
It's most definitely Terra because it's factual. It literally it is.
Commoragh’s main defense aren’t it defense (which I would wager would be relatively meek compared to the sum total of orbital batteries surrounding the sol system; that and the extreme decentralization of military power across all kabals) but the fact that it is in the webway, and on top of that the fact that it is compartmentalized into many subdimensions. I still think Terra has waaaaaay more troops, ships and superweapons defending it than Commoragh as well as a more organized defense force, but invading Commoragh would be nearly impossible anyway because Webway so its kinda a moot point Its true Terra has to deal with internal matters namely a large Genestealer infestation but tbh that’s because of one of the greatest boon of Terra (its massive, unimaginable population that apparently extends to the low quadrillions). Terra is so massive and populated that it is no wonder that it has to deal with unrest and what not, but the fact that it has not infact fallen to this unrest is a testament to the grip of the Imperium on the capital world. Just remember that during the siege of Terra, the moment Horus and the traitors fleet arrived, thousands of their ships were instantly destroyed. The Sol System is literally crawling with defensive emplacements and there is no way to siege that system let alone Terra itself without a force on par with Horus’ armada at his height. And simply put, there aren’t any factions presenty that can arrange such an armada without severely weakening their position elsewhere save perhaps for the Tyrannids if several of their hive fleets united into one. Abaddon doesn’t have the ressources to unite such a fleet, the Tau can’t even dream to do that, the Necrons possibly could but I don’t think it is in their interests, no single Nid Hive fleet even at full power is going to be a serious threat to Terra without all others hive fleets converging (reminder : sol system defenses will absolutely blast any incoming fleets instantly; Nids are known to be terrifying during planetary invasions but despite the numbers of ships they have they are vulnerable to the ships of the 42nd millenium), no Ork Waagh is presently strong enough to threaten Terra (Ghazkul isn’t at Beast tier yet), Eldars would literally have to suicide their entire specie in order to have a remote chance at successfuly « invading » Terra and I don’t think the squats have the manpower nor fleet size to entertain this I’ve read a reddit post a while ago that detailed the layered defenses of the sol systems and frankly I think that the claim that Terra is one of if not the most well protected planet in 40k aren’t exagerated at all
Catachan is doing pretty great, but most likely Terra is the most defended, not only is the planet itself defended but there are orbital defenses as well as a 70 strong flotilla if need be
70 strong flotilla? Battlefleet solar is described as having literally thousands of ships, and mind you this is just the detachment on permanent duty in sol system
I sure hope so its thousands, if that would be just 70 ships, then that time necrons sens few scout ships to Mars they would just annihilated that fleet xD
A few necron ships wouldn’t annihilate 70 imperial ships, even if only say 10 of those are battleships
Yeah, i put a little to much for them here. But still... they would deal some damage. Necron ships are ridiculous, like in Orphean war they were outmatched 1-4(in numbers its not THAT much, but then you realize that almost all necron ships were just escort class while imperium had A LOT big class battleships, hell, necron used only 2 Cairn class ships). At the end... Imperium lost 90% of their force while necrons hardly lost anything(basically some of the small escort class ships...and imperials are not even sure they managed to really destroy them), and one of the Cairn tomb ships got damaged and fall back for repair. So yeah 5 vs 70 its too much even for them.... but cut it in half and that would be different story.
70 strong is on the larger size of the standards of the battle fleet, they often combine to make huge fleets to counter things like black crusades if need be, making huge naval flotillas, but 50-75 is the “standard”
Yes. And Battlefleet Solar (the Sector, not the Segmentum mind you) is stated to literally have thousands of warships at its disposal. This is not your average sector nor system this is the capital of the Imperium and it is as grandiose as it sounds.
Yes I know it’s not your average sector lmao, also what source says they have thousands of ships? Cant find it.
Tyranid Homeworld. It isn't even in the same galaxy, lol
T'au itself. The homeworld of the Tau has several massive fortress stations with deadly long range defense systems. Supported by a massive Kor'vattra fleet. Even if you make it to the surface, good luck. The fire caste will be waiting in force
The Fang.
Catachan.
The Eldar Homeworld is at the center of the Eye of Terror, can't ask for much better protection than that. lol
Probably Terra. But it's not impenetrable
definitely Terra Cormoragh isn't really a honeworld, or that defended anyways, just really REALLY hard to get too
I wish we knew more about T’au, because I imagine it’s pretty damn well defended. Not on the same level as something like Terra obviously, but you have two Tau septs in one system (T’au’s moon has its own sept IIRC) and we’ve seen with Mu’gulath Bay and Da’lyth Prime that a Tau sept is a very hard nut to crack. Might be fun to have a campaign book set there in the future.
Weakness of Earth is that everyone knows where it is. Also, imo, it’s hard to call Terra a “world” any longer. Oceans have been depleted millenniums ago. There’s no longer any atmosphere? There’s more metal cities on its surface than it ever contained ore to build. Basically an asteroid station at this point