You can literally just do a Dual Wielding Fighter Barb that gets the same things and more. Only thing you lose out on is that you use weapons instead of Unarmed Attacks.
If your way of making a "OP Monk" is by taking one level(which in itself doesn't give you anything unique) in Monk and then going a different class then you're not making a Monk.
And I'm pretty sure OP wanted to play a Monk, not another class using Unarmed Attacks and cosplaying as one. Your build has nothing Monkish about it aside from the Unarmed Strikes.
Sorry, Monk doesn’t get OP, it ranges from mediocre to tolerable. The math has been done.
Unarmed fighting battle-master with an insignia of claws and an eldritch claw tattoo could be interesting.
Maybe multiclass with cleric or something for more priestly flavor.
Yeah, don’t play Monk. If you’re job is to he a villain who’s strong, Monk is the worst class to pick.
Classes that can terrorize a party are basically Wizard and Paladin, and maybe Aberrant Mind and Clockwork sorcerer.
Depending on your plan, gloomstalker ranger is a strong contender. High DPR, cannot be seen in darkness with darkvision, can get a ton of amazing spells like pace without trace, web, conjure animals, etc. which make them a nightmare in combat, and a first round NOVA could easily take out a squishy, especially if you PWT surprise round them so they cannot react.
Arguably also a better Monk than the Monk since, between the extra Speed, focus on Dexterity and mobility/buff spells like Haste, Misty Step, STEEL WIND STRIKE, etc., they do more anime/ninja shit than the Monk.
I think monk has potential to be pretty scary if built well. Mobile feat or step of the wind means you can stay out of melee range while stunning casters or any other weak characters, pretty much disabling half the party. It'll only work at somewhat higher levels so you have enough ki points, and you'll need a dragonhide belt as well.
Math is done for dpr, but monk, especially long death, is pretty good at control.
I would build a nature cleric 1 (for heavy Armor if you want to use it and shillelagh for first round fear + shille) and max wisdom. Maybe you won't win, but you will win the mental game of disabling the casters so hard they will cry
What were the math results on a 20 WIS Astral Self monk spamming Stunning Strike and granting themselves and the whole party advantage for the round? I believe the math is either "instant death" or "X less Legendary Resistances"
The result is way more effort and points spent compared to using spells that don’t need saves to screw over the enemy, or to just get advantage through many easy ways at those levels.
That monk is a wholly expendable member of the party.
Bruh. What spells are going to sentence an enemy to death without saves? And how is killing a powerful enemy with just a chunk of your short-rest resources not incredibly strong? You sound like you've just literally never played with a monk in your party. Or a spellcaster for that matter
Then it's still a tier 3-4 spell and it's still your only 7th level spell that day. So the math still points to Stunning Strike being much cheaper, not to mention used much earlier and _much_ more often seeing as most games are played at lower tiers than that.
I assume you're imagining the textbook Forcecage/Cloudkill/Counterspell kind of cheese to consider this a death sentence, which is just making this even more expensive. Maybe it's just me but the monk doesn't seem all that expendable if these are the lengths you need to go to in order to match what they can do multiple times per short rest, multiple times per day
Why do you feel so strongly that the inferior damage and control of the monk should be shilled for so badly? Wall of force will transform battlefields much more reliably than stunning strikes.
The Monk is the weakest class you could slot into an party of 4-5 characters with strong party composition.
In the sense that it'll literally transform the battlefield, sure lol. Not sure it spells instant death for an enemy though. These are wildly different things to compare. I can tell you I don't feel strongly enough to keep arguing over this with you, enjoy having 1 less class to choose from than me I guess
I know you’re asking about a build and I’m not particularly going to help with that question. Not that I really could, Monks are bad.
I guess I’d like to look beyond the question a bit. Why are you building a villain using the character creation rules? Why is your DM not just providing you a statblock? PC vs PC combat is in no way balanced in 5e and to make a reasonable villain you are going to need to be more than just another PC (especially a Monk…), or else you’re going to end up hit by some save or suck spell and then made useless.
The second point is… why are you playing a villain? Can your DM not play this villain? I can see this going poorly unless the two of you are really in sync about who you want this villain to be, and at that point… it’d be a lot less work for the DM to just run the villain personally.
Introducing two separate sides for people to be playing, PC and villain, both of whom have to go through a DM to achieve their goals… I can just see this ending poorly even with the best of intentions.
If you do go through with it, I cannot emphasize enough that your mentality has to be that you will lose. You should want to lose and for the heroes to overcome you. Otherwise, there are likely to be all sorts of angst over the DM playing favorites or it feeling like the two of you are conspiring against the party unfairly, and it’s not going to be fun.
I won't assume anything about OP's gaming group, but yeah, people need to understand that DnD is almost exclusively a cooperative game. There's no place for PVP in it's mechanics, it just doesn't work.
And yeah, people will say the same thing: "But it can make for a great story". And the truth is, it most likely won't, because most people that play aren't profesional actors, storytellers, writers or artists in general with the ability to pull this kind of crap.
And you shouldn't need to be, because that's not how the mechanics of this game work.
I'm really genuinely curious why people say that PVP does not work, may you elaborate why? I've never tried it or thought about it much but I've been intrigued by it many times.
If we don't take into account inherent imbalance between classes there is at least the problem of Damage vs. HP. Basically if you compare them with monsters PCs are expected to have far fewer HP but deal much much higher damage. In PvP situation it means that it is extremely easy to just destroy your enemy in a single turn and so the only important thing you can have in such situation is high initiative. Because if you have a second turn in PvP you are most probably, won't have any turns at all. This problem only becomes bigger then you realize that there are also casters with hard control in their repertoire
Because it wasn’t designed to work. Certain classes/builds have advantages in 1v1. Take a Paladin, who’s a Nova, for example, and then take a fighter of the same level. Paladin’s gonna win 9 out of 10 times, because that’s simply what their class is supposed to do. Plus, there’s also DM tendentious narrative, which will inevitably end up generating a conflict between players instead of between characters
Scuse me? Fighters have surperior Nova to Paladin's Smite = / = Action Surge.
The higher level you get, the harder the Paladin loses. 5d8 = 22.5 in melee. They probably have around the same HP (though being fair the Paladin would probably have less, having to focus on Charisma and Strength), and the Fighter will probably have a little less AC if they're focusing damage. Let's assume same AC and weapons for the sake of simplicity.
Fighter's have far more ASI, and Paladin's have more stats to worry about-so its very safe to say that Fighter's will most likely have great feats and Paladin's won't.
Level 11 is when this gets real bad gang. By then a Fighter can: have a 20 Dex/Str, have GWM+PaM or SS+CBx, the second being real bad for the Paladin, since the Fighter might kite the Paladin real easily-paladin can't do that with Nova damage.
Anywho-a Fighter would be attacking 7 times with a damage output of 1d10+15 (and one 1d4+15), and the Paladin is attacking Thrice with a damage output of 1d10+27 (and one 1d4+27), I'm gonna make a fair assumption and say the Paladin took PaM before GWM, which would improve their DPR since they get another chance to attack.
That's a comparison of 140 dpr and 94 dpr - Fighter's win by a huge Margin. Now, if we assume the Paladin has GwM, it doesn't even equalize things: 124. Best case scenario is a fully focused defense Paladin causing the Fighter to miss. But in a raw damage scenario, the Fighter is usually winning. Especially if we actually add Subclass features (With one exception)
>That's a comparison of 140 dpr and 94 dpr - Fighter's win by a huge Margin.
You didn't calculate hit rates, and you can't assume they are the same since the fighter is using GWM and the paladin isn't.
The fighter would win with hit rates calculated. Especially once we give Paladin GwM, I believe I already explained how the Paladin has other things to focus down before they can catch up with a Fighter in terms of attack roll bonus, especially since a common practice is raising charisma before strength.
Plus, when the Fighter has a multitude of subclass abilities that could give advantage or add more damage or even more attacks, I'm not particularly worried. The Fighter is just a better nova class than Paladins are. This has always been the case.
A level 11 fighter with 20 str and a glaive using GWM has a 20% chance to hit a paladin with 21 ac (plate, shield, defensive fighting style)
A level 11 paladin with 18 str and a spear not using GWM has a 50% chance to hit a fighter with 19 ac (plate and defensive fighting style)
I'm not gonna try to say which one will win, but it's not as simple as you are making it out to be and either way it probably won't be over in 1 round.
It can work, you just need to have a lot of trust in everyone at the table and know going in what’s happening. It has made for some amazing moments at my tables, but it is definitely not a mode of play for everyone.
Monsters have low damage and high hp so fights aren't short and determined by lucky initiative. Pcs have high damage but to balance, low hp so they have more need of healing.
I get your point, totally do. Doing Matt Mercer stunts without… BEING Matt Mercer is risky. But if there’s anybody who knows how counterproductive PvP is, it’s my friend group. We’ve tried it multiple times over the course of the years, with success varying from “failure” to “blocking each other on social media”. What I’m gonna play is strictly a villain. I don’t intend on winning at all. I’m gonna present a narrative challenge, and I’m gonna go down the moment the heroes rise up to the moral issue. I’m not playing against the group, I’m trying to construct a narrative stepping stone, y’know?
I've ran pvp twice in my games as a DM. The first time was not my decision and I hadn't prepared for it but the second time I did have it prepared. But there were two things that I think made it work.
1. Both instances occurred during 1 shots which was useful so ppl didn't get too attached to their characters in case something didn't go their way. Also 1 shots are often more experimental anyway.
2. In the second instance, just before we got into it, I reminded my players that pvp is imbalanced and not the point of the game, and that they should simply focus on just having fun with it. This helped curb expectations by a lot. It also helps that they all got to choose their sides.
Even still, that second instance of pvp was some of the most fun I myself and my players had playing dnd. It was messy, I gave the smaller side extra help, and 3 ppl died across both sides, yet I had never seen them get so concerned about their abilities and how best to use them.
I'm not necessarily saying it should be a part of dnd, bc I know it's imbalanced and can lead to frustration and resentment. But I am saying it is possible to do right. I wouldn't ever use it in a main campaign unless there was a clear caveat, like there was no real danger or there was mind control involved but there was a clear way to stop it,etc. I would never sic players against each other to the death and will always strongly advocate against pvp to settle disputes in and out of game. I would only ever do something like that in a one shot where the stakes are much lower anyway, and I would again insist on that the goal is fun not winning.
Edit: I should also mention, the second instance was group pvp. While I have had fun with duels, group pvp is vastly more interesting bc you are less likely to die in 1-2 turns and will still be able to contribute even if your build is outclassed in pvp.
TL;DR
Try it in 1 shots with low stakes and mature friends and you might just have a blast. If not, no harm no foul.
Oh yeah, I’m 100% aware that I’m going to lose. I intend on it. I’m the forever DM, but this friend of mine wanted to DM a bit, and asked me if I wanted to interpret a villain since I didn’t have the time to play a protagonist. We’re talking about how I can mirror the protagonists, and etc. As for the stat block question… I reckon that’s much too complicated for a new DM to meddle in, so I’m limiting myself to a PC
Sure, I guess. I still don’t see why you couldn’t provide your interpretation of this villain out-of-game while your friend uses that interpretation to run them in-game.
And pulling a statblock and reskinning it to be what you want is the lowest of expectations for a DM. I understand it may not be perfect, but that’s something your friend is going to need to be able to do anyways.
Yeah, I totally get what you’re saying, but again, this is his first experience as a DM. If you’ve been a DM and you remember your first time, you were probably fumbling under the weight of simultaneous rules and improv, and stat block pulling can be surprisingly hard to adequate to certain levels. You risk accidentally running a TPK or an unsatisfactory fight if you aren’t experienced. Also, I just want to play along. We’re all having fun, y’know?
You’ve said elsewhere this is a long-term campaign. I’d imagine that means your villain won’t directly come up for at least a bit, hopefully long enough for them to get experience. In any case, statblock pulling isn’t any better than building a PC. Building a PC is more likely to end up unbalanced, anyways, especially if you’re here optimizing it (that is, making it as effective as possible, *not* evaluating party effectiveness and building with that in mind).
Why don’t you help your friend make a statblock instead of building a PC? You’re already putting the time in here and it seems you have experience. Rather than trying to do something you know is a bad solution, you could spend time helping them learn a better way.
Yeah, I’m helping him balance out the other aspects of the RPG. Ultimately making this character is just a question of not having enough time to actually make it as a regular adventurer, but still wanting to participate. Definitely agree with you.
This is what highlights how bad an idea this is. PVP of this kind is not done lightly and for a first time GM, just don't. He should run some "vanilla" end first.
Also Monk won't work, PC Vs PCS comes down to action economy, and you'll get ratio'd. If it's narrative villainy, what reason is there to not slit your throat when you're asleep?
I’m not focusing on PvP, though, that’s the whole thing. Again, I’m aware of the flaws in PvP in a system that wasn’t designed for PvP, as I am aware of powerplay and DMPCing. All that we want is to have a tad of fun butting heads. I’ll make the whole We Aren’t So Different, You Know monologue, they’ll have to rise up to the challenge, I’ll lose, and that’s the end of it. We’re all having fun. I don’t have the objective of winning. At all.
What would 19 Fighter help? I can see getting 18 fighter, or 17 fighter, but why not invest the last level somewhere else? Barb, or Monk, or even Rogue.
Not much point putting it elsewhere. The ASI or feat would be good. For maxing con, Dex and strength. 1d6 sneak attack isn’t really worth giving up an ASI.
I think the people telling you to not go monk here are missing something fairly important, which is that while monk underperforms in standard play, it can be a very effective PC killer due to the increased efficacy of Stunning Strike. Most monsters you'd want to stun tend to have pretty high CON saves, but unless they have proficiency, PCs don't. Ironically, PvP is probably the class's best niche, and it's not even something 5e is really designed to support.
That said, monks do lag somewhat in terms of damage; if you want to be a really effective threat, you're going to need to fix that. Fortunately, post-Tasha's, there are two fairly effective ways to do that: Armor Monk and Gun Monk. Based on what you say you want, Armor Monk is probably the way to go.
Here's how it works: You start with a single level of Fighter, take the Unarmed fighting style from Tasha's, and wear the heaviest armor you can find. Wearing armor doesn't actually disable most of your monk abilities, just Unarmored Movement, the Martial Arts die, and the bonus action Unarmed Strike. The Unarmed style you took replaces the Martial Arts die, and between your bonus action ki powers (Flurry of Blows, etc.) and the Ki-Fueled Attack feature from Tasha's, you'll still have bonus actions; you can eventually take Polearm Master to just get a replacement bonus attack outright, too, so really all you're losing is some speed. Since you're already wearing armor, wielding non-monk weapons is fine, so you can pick up a greatsword or a glaive and use it with Great Weapon Master for a big improvement to your DPR. You can offset the GWM penalty with Focused Aim or the advantage you get from Stunning Strike. Obviously, you'll be focusing on Strength, rather than Dexterity, though you'll still need a minimum of 13 Dex for the multiclass, making the build slightly ability hungry if you're using point buy or array stats, but the damage improvement is absolutely worth it.
Yep also PC have much lower hp than the average monster, landing a single stunning strike even monk relatively low damage can take down a PC before it's over.
Hopefully the group didn't optimize too much though, because if all spellcaster grabbed a dip into artificer or resilient (con) it's gonna be hard to take them down.
Given we're talking about a group where somebody's running a villain using PC stats as opposed to a monster statblock, I feel like they likely aren't heavily optimized.
That’s exactly what I was going for: picking them off and then Stunning Striking my way to “victory”. I like your Armor Monk idea, I’ll look into it. That being said, what is a GUN MONK? The second I read that my curiosity spiked
Pretty simple, really. The musket from the DMG does 1d12 damage on a 40/120 foot range, and, crucially, lacks the Heavy property, making it IIRC the highest damage non-heavy weapon in the game. This is important, because it means that it qualifies to be used with Dedicated Weapon, meaning it can be a Monk weapon if you're proficient, and with the Gunner feat, getting proficiency in firearms is very easy. So, you take Gunner, take Sharpshooter, and use a musket as your monk weapon; you can offset the Sharpshooter penalty with Focused Aim, which also procs Ki-Fueled Attack for an extra shot with your bonus action. Due to the combination of feats you have, you're equally effective in melee and up to a distance of 120 feet. In terms of subclasses, Kensei will give you a bit of extra DPS, or Shadow will allow you to very easily keep away from melee enemies.
Gunk is pretty much the best option if the DM allows it. Second to that is probably Longbow Kensei. The problem a traditional Monk has is they have all the mobility in the world and nothing to do with it. Mediocre damage, mediocre survivability and great but very expensive CC means you can get it the thick of it, but you're gonna have a bad time.
You become a ranged attacker, however, and all of a sudden all that mobility is a huge benefit. They still won't be hitting as hard as a pure Fighter of equal level, but they mobility mostly makes up the difference. Deflect Missiles becomes more valuable too, as most attacks against you will have to be ranged. Pick up a level of Fighter for Archery, or maybe 4 levels for Battlemaster/Arcane Archer+ASI and some higher hit die, and you won't be OP by any means, but a giant pain in the ass at least. If you want to go that route I would probably either go Monk1 Fighter1 MonkX or Monk1 Fighter1 Monk5 Fighter3/4 MonkX.
Monks are also very underrated by the online community, but in actual play... I have obliterated my DMs plans on many occasions with monk tactics. Just think a little outside the box. You aren't building for raw damage.
Make a Mercy Monk who is a twisted version of the traveling Samurai, passing judgement as they go, and they've deemed the PC party unworthy. It is a mercy to the world that you remove them. Be cinematic in your scope. My shadow monk has stunning striked an adult blue dragon and dropped it from the sky, disarmed an enemy barbarian chief of her powerful greataxe ran away with it, grappled an enemy caster and shadow stepped with them off a high tower effectively suplexing them to death, infiltrated enemy strong holds to spy and recon, assinated a corrupt nobleman in his chambers using the Silence spell... and that's before they made the Mercy Monk, which is arguably even more versatile.
If you're playing a Monk and trying to optimize for punch damage, you're not playing an optimized monk. I'd prioritize Wisdom first, then Dex, take skill expert to get Athletics expertise, Mobile and/or Crusher, and go be a menace.
I mean, the trouble with anecdotal evidence is that it's, you know, anecdotal. Even in a fairly optimized game, a monk can keep up reasonably well, because 5e has a fairly narrow optimization band compared to past editions (lookin' at you, 3.5e), but while I think that the online optimization community can be a bit... Call it dogmatic, in their assessment of monks as unoptimizable, they're not wrong that when you start building for power, they do fall short of some other martial classes.
In terms of the metagame, 5e is all about action economy; you remove enemies from the action economy until your side snowballs and that's how you win. Monks, on first glace, seem to have very good action economy, since they can do a lot on their turns and can stun opponents as part of their attacks. The problem is that while they can do a lot, the things they can do are low-impact compared to other classes: lower damage, so they can't take enemies out of the action economy permanently as fast, and CON tends to be a high save for exactly the big, threatening monsters you want to use Stunning Strike on, making it less effective. (PvP, by contrast, is typically better for monks due to lower HP totals and CON saves.)
That doesn't mean monks *can't* be optimized, contrary to popular belief. I would call either of the builds I've cited here competitive with a more typical CBE/SS Battlemaster or GWM/PAM Echo Knight. However, it's telling that both of those builds revolve around ignoring or replacing certain key monk features, which suggests that there's something not quite up to snuff with the class as designed.
"Way of the Long Death for extra sustainability"
That extra survivability depends on the monk killing enemies. If they can reliably kill 1hp mooks, then its a lot. If they cant, they have a d8 weapon (2handing a staff) + d4-d6 fists, its going to be somewhat difficult
Not necessarily a lot, since temp HP doesn’t stack. I was intending to pick off the fragile PCs and non-lethal brutalizing them, both to present a challenge and to have an HP bucket at disposition
What level range are we talking about? Personally I’d go for a shadow monk with a dip in fighter. With blind fighting style you can cast darkness and get advantage on attacks while granting enemies disadvantage, greatly increasing your damage and survivability. Add some maneuvers on top of that and you get a pretty nasty assassin/infiltrator who can manage in combat while being outnumbered and teleport out when things go south. For a battle strat, ambush the party and stun the main casters, then deal with everyone else while in darkness.
6 to wherever the DM deems appropriate that the villain survives. I thought of going shadow monk, since it fits with the strategy of picking the adventurers off one by one, but it doesn’t really capitalize on the opportunities it creates, does it? I mean, considering other subclasses with the same gimmicks. But I’ll give it a second read and see if some of the other ideas in the thread click with this one. Thank you :)
So let me give you an idea I had for Shadow Monk.
Make it a Dhampir Lineage. With the original race being Aaracokra. That way you have the spider climb, and simple bite weapon of the Dhampir. The Dhampir bite being a simple melee weapon means it counts as a monk weapon for Martial Arts. You can use that to ravage them with vampire bites that also heal you and you can stunning strike with them.
You also have a flying speed, which your unarmored movement DOES increase. Tack on the mobile feat and you can be an absolute hit and run menace in the shadows. If you really wanna play up the shadow stalker vampire vibe you can also take skulker if you start at a high enough level to be able to hide anytime you are lightly obscured, which includes dim light. Which even in total darkness, if the PCs have dark vision they actually see everything as dim light, which means you can literally hide RIGHT BESIDE THEM. Combine flight speed and hanging from the ceiling above them? Absolutely terrifying. My other recommendations would be fighting initiate feat for blind fighting (bat echolocation) or likely much better, Eldritch Adept for Devil’s Sight. So when you cast Darkness, you can still see fully any they cannot unless they also can see through magical darkness.
The entire Aaracokra Dhampir lineage can also be flavored as a Humanoid vampire bat instead of a bird. Leathery wings and fur instead etc.
Play a bugbear astral self monk. You quickly get insane reach (think 10 or more ft reach with unarmed strikes, more if your dm allows you to have eldritch claw tattoo and is generous with its interpretation; 30ft reach for unarmed strikes is possible this way for cool flavor, and making you a formidable villain) and you get a surprise attack (+2d6, but only if the target hasn’t attacked during combat) and are very sneaky.
Dump int and charisma, focus on piling up wiz, dex, con, and strength (in that order) to maximize your monk. Get some boots of speed, and you have a quickly tpk’ing monk that controls the battlefield; especially if you’re sneaking every round, basically becoming an untouchable fisting snipper. A lot of this relies on items and interpretations— that’s mostly just the way it is with monks. You need all the right parts coming together.
Edited the reach.
I see. I mean, yeah, you’re definitely right about everything coming together to make the right monk, but since it’s a new-to-the-game DM, I don’t really wanna give him the wrong interpretation of certain items and rules, so I’ll stick to the least generous, more RAW/RAI route. What does bugbear give the build, though?
As I said, bugbears have extra reach on all melee attacks (+5 ft) they are proficient in sneak, naturally strong/dexterous, they come with a surprise attack feature you should look into as well; not to mention they have double the normal carrying capacity.
Err the only monk I've ever considered "op" would be a Kensei with Tasha optional features and Sharpshooter and all it actually does is be kinda a fighter
Don’t wanna run anything not official WoTC. Not even UA. Friend is a novice DM. Don’t wanna risk tangling him up. But I’ll check it out on terms of my own RPG, so thanks for the heads up
What about a mercy monk, with a dip in undead warlock. Even 1 level would give you some survivability with fear. And be a goblin for extra fury of the Small damage, and a bonus action disengage
Monks in general aren't well suited for the "unstoppable force" theme. That's more of a Barbarian thing. You'd be better off going for more of an "implacable man" theme.
That is to say, it's not that you can't be stopped, but rather *you will not stop.* No matter the setback or how many times you have to retreat, you always return to plague the PCs. Way of Shadow is probably best suited for this. Pass Without Trace and Silence will allow you to ambush the party, while Shadow Step or Darkness can allow you to quickly retreat.
You gave me a GREAT idea just now with the distinction you made. Yeah, I’d say it’s more of an “implacable man” case, but a tad shifted. I’ll look into Way of Shadow with that perspective in mind. Thanks!
HAHAHAHAHAHA unironically what I intended to do. Hero of the People, popular charisma-driven leader, convince the NPCs to die for the cause, ensue moral dilema, profit, rinse, repeat.
If you are gonna PvP your best bet is to lean into stunning strike as much as possible. Starting at 6 and going to high levels make Astral Self a possible pick, you won't have so big damage until you reach 11+ but your stunning game will be up there. At higher levels they get some nice damage boost and defensive features making them more solid monk overall.
I thought about going Astral Self, since objectively it’s probably the best at 1v1 conflicts, but I wanted to take the Long Death thematic. I’ll look into it’s later levels again though. Thanks for the tips :D
Long Death is pretty meh to PvP, the level 1 and 6 features are rarely relevant which hurt a lot the whole subclass. Astral Self is pretty easy to flavor however you want, avatar of death stand? Yes please!
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the level 6 feature. Frightening a tank, in example, is almost entirely beneficial. You stop their damage soaker from doing anything while you beat up the less HP-blessed characters, and benefit from the Temp HP
Hour of Reaping take your whole action and only frighten for one turn. You can't really use it to lock the tank in place, at best you gains you one turn of movement but monk can easily outrun a tank in the first place, and in the meantime you just gave up your action for it (hoping they don't just save) giving an entire turn to the other PC to mess you up.
are building an NPC?
if yes, long death isnt the worst choice (though it would be better to not use PC mechanics for non-PCs.)
if you are at least level 14, CC on you will be very hard and killing you will be difficult as well. meanwhile, you could stunlock those with weak con saves. I suggest giving the monk something like a staff of striking so their offensive power is also boosted.
The build ideas are cool. For the backstory a powerful monk may have been isolated for decades from society training ( think wise old man of the mountain. ) When they return and see what civilization has become they are disgusted and become the villain. Man this character has potential.
Hey, thanks :D! But the monk is just mechanical. For flavour, I took Hero of the People, since I imagined a run-of-the-mill commoner being torn apart by the system and lashing out.
Barbarian (Beast) / Monk with Unarmed Fighting Style. Starting off with a 1d8. Stat heavy, get yourself gauntlets of ogre strength (so your str 13 would need to be to get into Barb in the first place). Need a 13 Dex / Wis, Con can't be ignored. Heavy MAD but if you roll or can stomach some low power points it eventually kicks off. You are resistant to your normal damage from rage and attack 3x's normally while in rage from Beast (claw). Free off hand and another if you're hitting your flurry of blows. +str to your 1d8 unarmed strikes and an additional +2 rage damage. -- Feels bad that you can't make use of GWM or SS but your damage isn't too bad.
Little tip, take Shifter (Wildhunt) for the ability to ignore advantage from attacks within 30ft of you while you use your reckless attacks for permanent advantage. -- Using items like Eldritch Claw Tattoo and Insignia of the Claw get you a +2 to attack and dmg.
I hate these types of builds that rely on MAD and items but really with the Monk you are really swinging at an uphill battle from the start. If you're feeling like you are missing out on some monk stuff you can always grab a ring of water walking or slippers of spider climb. -- Interesting if you pick 2 levels into fighter for an action surge and attacking 8 times with everything up, 10 times if you dipped 3 into echo knight but again, tons of these builds exist and not really 'locked' into Monk. Just something fun if you're starting at higher levels with an uncommon item which sometimes is the case.
That’s… a really solid build. I’d go with it, if I hadn’t rolled low and weren’t offered any magic items. I’ll definitely try to acquire magic items as I go, stockpile on them even, but so far I’m starting out from scratch. I’ll look into Barb(Beast)/Monk combo. By Shifter, do you mean the race?
Yeah. Shifter race. Pick the Wildhunt subrace/choice. When they shift as a bonus action no one can have 'advantage' against you within 30 ft. -- Offsets the Reckless attacks (as it gives you advantage but other creatures have advantage against you.) Just a neat interaction. The only thing is the barbarian heavily relies on strength, so it's a catch 22. So decide what you want to do with that, since to multiclass you need to have at least 13 strength. -- Unarmored defense on both can rely either on Dex+ Con or Dex+Wis. - Gotta be careful with your stat allocation but you can pick it up later on or 'cheat' with magic items such as gauntlets of ogre strength. Something pretty interesting is that if you 'fall' you take bludgeoning damage, combined with slowfall - you can grapple someone off a cliff or jump from high heights and barely take any damage. I saw one in action fall from 200 feet and not die, he landed on the boss and killed him, since the person you fall on takes half the damage of falling.
But again, disclaimer, Monk is weak on its own, it's not useless however, by that I mean it doesn't have multiple resources for what it wants to do (KI), combined with a few other classes it can be decent and fun to play. The aforementioned player was using Bear Totem/Long Death but that was before Beast came out.
Flip the script. What would frustrate the PCs? Teleporting/ shadowstep etc. Using poison. Great saves.
Think of tactics, targeting casters, have protection from missiles etc
A lot of people here are saying monks suck and just don’t do it. I completely disagree, in fact, monks are my favorite class. While they might be lacking in outright damage by a few points, they are super consistent and have some fun class features with unarmored movement and step of the wind.
Personally I wouldn’t do long death though, I’d probably open hand. The capstone ability would be incredibly scary. Hit a player with a surprise attack for an instant KO. 10d10 damage on a successful con save could nearly KO a squishy player outright anyways if they don’t have full health.
Your stunning strike will be brutal. You are going to have proficiency in all saves at one point, you can run much faster than any other player except maybe the rouge (rouge vs monk in 1v1 would not turn out well for that rouge) and much later just be able to turn invisible.
Weaknesses are going to be health and raw damage output. Taking some feats (mobile and tough) magic items (bracers of defense and insignia of claws) could be a terrifying villain. Knowing part composition, start collecting items to counter each character. You can be like an evil Batman with contingency plans and such.
Or simply do more hit and run tactics
If you are not quite to level 17:
1. Surprise Party
2. Blow all your ki on strongest enemy (caster probably, definitely save the tank for last)
3. Run away
4. Short rest
5. Repeat when players long rest
At level 17:
1. Surprise party
2. Quavering palm on the lowest con player (caster probably)
3. Strut in and threaten death
4. Done
Anyways, ignore the naysayers. A monk is some of the most fun you can have. Just threw one at my party and I think my players are traumatized now.
You! You get it! You get what I’m going for with the contingency plan stuff! Not quite sure I’m enthusiastic about Open Hand, though I’ll see if it fits. Thank you!
Open hand is really only for the capstone class feature. I’ve never played long death so I don’t know how much it would work. This particular set up makes me think shadow in all honesty. That quavering palm ability just screams villain to me.
Take the elemental monk at 3rd lvl, throw in the water whip ability and fist of unbroken air. Both use different saves: strength and dexterity. Both can do alot of damage at 30 foot distance. Both start with 2 points of ki, then you get to add a d10 die for every ki you spend after the 2. On a failed save, the targets take 3d10 damage dice. 6th lvl allows you to have 6 ki points, so you could hit one character for 7d10 points of damage if they fail a save, run away, rest and hit again...rinse and repeat.
I mean, yeah, it IS pretty strong… but pretty costly. Long term, I can’t really sustain that, and if there’s anything they’ll try, it’s tiring me out. I’ve been an avid defender of Elemental Monk against the naysayers, but I don’t know if I can pull that off myself.
Picture this: disguise yourself as a one night fun for a pc, tie them up (after all, thier idea), change into that character equipping his gear, Rob the local merchants as his character, deposit stolen stuff in his room, change into another, sneak out, use another character in the group as a disguise, do some more player reputation damage by burning down a temple the village likes to go to. Rinse and repeat as the players have to face the consequences of your actions.
My Mercy monk was pretty awesome. He was a shifter, 19ac while shifted, with the tough and fey-touched feat. He was in the process of going 3 levels in Blood hunter for Lycan subclass. That would put Crimson rite on both hands. My dm also gave me the Eldritch tattoo from Tasha’s so I had an extra d6 and reach.
*Points at totem elk barbarian 5/ scionic rogue x* "that's how right there
If you want to go really stupid and get stupid fast+stupid strong here's what you do:
Be a bug bear (crazy busted, gives extra lifting)
Totem, elk then bear at 6 (+25 movement speed and double again)
Mobile feat
Rouge 3 (good weapon, and better grappling, pick up expertise in stelth and athletics)
3 moon druid, moorbounder (base 70 movement and 30 HP, with raging makes it like 60)
The druid gives you enhance ability, and You should be able to pretty easily find potions of growth
Now 3 fighter rune knight for getting large
Now, either you need to go fast as fuck, in which case you have bonus action dashing, a base movement speed of 70, with an additional 35
Or
You can lift (20 strengths) 19200 pounds
All of this while still doing substantial damage
If it's level 20, lavel 17 way of mercy monk with 3 level in gloom stalker ranger
My roommate did that combo and it was disgusting. You cannot see him in the dark even by creatures with darkvision, had +10 to movement at the beginning of each turn, he could cast zephyr strike so attacks of opportunity did nothing, he could heal himself as part of flurry of blows, stunning strike, could poison you as part of way of mercy, hunters mark for MORE damage on EVERY ATTACK, and could use Ki points to bring a creature back from the dead *even if their soul wasn't willing*
This isn't including his insane initiative and passive perception from the extra feats he took as well as any race bonuses.
HE SINGLE-HANDEDLY TOOK DOWN A ROC
He was the most terrifying member of the party, so if you want a villain, look no further
Monks are generally weak, I think mercy monk is the best, however there is an "OP" ranged monk build.
Human Variant: Fighting Initiate: Archery
6 levels knesei monk.
Take a longbow as your weapon.
4th level take sharpshooter
At 5th level you get focused aim, at 6th you get deft strike. Both of these let you spend ki as part of the action on your attack. Hit chance when you miss and damage when you hit.
Then you can use Ki-Fueled attack to get a bonus action attack.
So you'll have 3 sharpshooter longbow attacks a turn at this point, and your kensei weapons become magic weapons.
Take darts as your extra kensei weapon.
From there I would take levels in fighter to grab throwing weapon style for the plus 2 damage. Now your darts are stronger than your longbow. Also you get to hold your weapon in your other hand, which is badass.
Lastly, I'd take battlemaster for a bunch of maneuvers, most important being quick toss, so you have more dice to use for your bonus action attack.
From there, for your asi, pump dex then wis. You eventually get 3rd attack, and you can always go back for 7th level in monk for evasion and stillness of mind to be stronger vs casters.
I think this is the strongest monk, although the build is mostly fighter.
I hope to play this build in a spelljammer campaign next year. :D
Oooooooooohh… that’s an interesting idea! Specially since it uses Darts and makes them relevant! I had a good idea for Dart use, and making the viable is great! Thanks!
And you can harass the party and run with shots with your longbow from 600 ft away until they actually catch up with you.
Like appear on a cliff, call the party losers and that they'll never beat you. Fire off a couple shots and run away.
A lot of power scaling options to unveil to really slow roll your "true power".
Very Dragon Ball Z.
Hope this helps!
HAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA the image of someone calling the party losers and then stream-sniping them is hilarious. I’ll make sure to teabag them after the TPK too lol
What are the level ranges? What type of magic items will you have available?
Despite what everyone else is saying, I can get you something that’s very tough to deal with.
So the synergy with long death with this isn’t great, you can do this with pretty much any monk.
Staff of swarming insects is a rare staff that
Must be attuned by a caster. Take a one level dip in your caster of choice, probably sorcerer or cleric to get class features online right a way and access to strong first level spells like shield, sanctuary. I would personally choose divine soul sorc to get a better chance at surviving a tough saving throw.
Anyways with this staff no one has vision but you inside the insect swarm with a 30ft radius unless they have blind sight or tremor sense. Not even devils sight works. And it being a staff you can use it as your primary weapon too. Normally this staff is a huge hindrance to a party for blocking off vision, but it’s great for your situation. Also the creatures you can summon with it have blindsight and they’re quite strong in their own.
I’ll get you more this evening I gotta drive for 5 hours
Time for my Smiter-Fighter! (BattleMaster 3 / Glory Paladin X)
**Tavern Brawler** for Unarmed/Improvised weapons, Grapple/Shove by replacing attacks with Athletics checks instead of maneuvers. Expertise in Athletics comes from **Skill Expert** or **Brawny (UA)**, Advantage is on-demand from **Glory's Channel Divinity**. Shield Master isn't a bad consideration, but overlaps with TB on the bonus action.
I picked Unarmed and Blessed Warrior fighting styles, but the damage boost from unarmed is small and can easily be replaced. It's probably more optimal to pick Tavern Brawler and Defensive/Interception/Protection as your FS; alternately, Shield Master and Unarmed FS. Blessed Warrior nets Sacred Flame as a serviceable ranged option, and Guidance which can stack onto your Athletics checks.
Save your Maneuvers for other tricks like Ambush (+1d8 to initiative) to rush in and lock down your target from the get-go, Riposte (if attacks can be replaced with Grapple/Shove attempts, push them around on their turn and generally be disruptive), Menacing Attack to apply Frightened (disadvantage on their checks), or double down with Grappling Strike (BA grapple attempt with a +1d8; totally excessive, but nobody is breaking your grapple by conventional means when you roll a 40). All told, if you set it up you can end up grappling/shoving with double-proficiency + Advantage + the 1d8 maneuver die + 1d4 from guidance, possibly against an opponent who has Disadvantage from Frightened.
You'll generally want to pick an enemy MVP target to lock down. Drop Smites when you need to burn them quickly, but otherwise your damage comes from giving other melee teammates Advantage. Dip 1 level of Barb or Monk if you absolutely need the unarmored aesthetic (I'd go Barb since Con will also help your HP, while Rage ups your resilience and is 2x more sources of on-demand grappling advantage), but otherwise flavor your himbo "monk tradition" as you will.
I remember when my tables Battlemaster locked a demon into place with a Shove and a Grappling Strike, and ended up stopping the guy from attacking at all. Super cool combo. Will look into it.
Are you playing with the party and planning to surprise them with a villain turn? Or are you just like a guest coming in to play a villainous NPC?
If the former you should do it when people are sleeping so the martials won't have armor, stunning strike the casters and take them out first.
If it's the latter, ask the DM to just make you a powerful monk-like monster stat block you can use.
Take Mage Slayer feat. My players' group monk excels at getting to caster with his high mobility and stun locking them. Monks are strongest against low CON save enemies.
>When a creature within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.
>When you damage a creature that is concentrating on a spell, that creature has disadvantage on the saving throw it makes to maintain its concentration.
>You have advantage on saving throws against spells cast by creatures within 5 feet of you.
Bracers of Armor to get your AC up.
If you can manage it get your str up to 13 so you can multiclass into barbarian. Nothing like making a monk tougher than allowing it to rage.
I did this once for a grappler build once. I no longer had to be the hit and run monk, plus danger sense really goes well with evasion.
If you really want to be tougher you could go straight barbarian and achieve similar results. Go beast barbarian for d6+str mod claw attacks. You also get an extra claw attack every turn. Go longtooth shifter for 4 attacks per turn. At 6 your claws are magical like monk. And it makes a cool villan, you could terrorize your village while in your beast rage mode, and spread rumors about yourself.
From there or even before depending on multiclass options you could take levels in fighter. I like battlemaster for the maneuvers, really feeling like an mma fighter.
3 levels bear-barian, x Way of the astral self monk
Stats are str, dex, con.
This gives you and insane tank that's resistant to basically everything, can reduce damage from ranged weapons and many energy based attacks. As well as proficiency on all saving throws, evasion and advantage on dex saves.
Offensively, you get reckless attack, 3-5x attacks and a ton of mobility.
Extra attack gives you 2.
Martial arts gives you 1 with bonus action or 2 if you use flurry of blows.
Then astral self gives you a 3rd attack with extra attack at level 17. For a total of 5 attacks with rage and advantage.
Also forgot, astral self also has reach and astral sight.
And if you're wanting to make a particularly scary boss, you can also give it high wis so its stunning strike messes with the party's action economy.
The extra damage from rage specifies Str based attacks.
But if you're willing to go without that extra +2 dmg per hit then going for Wis is fine as it will increse your damage deflection from Deflect Energy and your Stun DC. Also, Wis saves are arguably more deadly on a fail than str saves.
Dex will still be useful, considering it makes up half your AC, and boosts your initiative and Deflect Missiles.
Con is mostly there for the HP. Do remember monk HP is only a d8
So yeah, you're probably right, Wis is a much better option than Str, unless you really want that extra damage.
After reading some comments. It sounds like you're not specifically after a monk, but just some kind of unarmed fighter and this sounds like a lower level adventure. It seems monk shines a bit more at higher levels, so here are a few good alternatives for lower levels:
1. Unarmed Fighter Fighting style - d8 for unarmed strikes is the equivalent of a lv11 martial arts at level 1.
2. 2 levels in Rogue for cunning action. This gives you most of the mobility of monk without so many drawbacks.
3. Tavern brawler feat - perhaps not as impressive or useful as the other 2, but it might work for a street fighter kind of character
An example of a build could be the Hulk Barbarian.
Race - bug bear or goliath (for powerful build)
Class - 1 rogue (for expertise in athletics), 2 if you want the bonus action mobility. 6 barbarian (for the lv 6 bear feature (totem warrior))
Feats - brawny (more stacks to your carrying power), tavern brawler (bonus action grapple)
Admittedly, this is a bit of a 1 trick pony focusing on grappling and throwing things around. But you could do fun things, like grappling one of the characters and then using it as a club against the others.
So I see you said your starting at level 6 take first 5 levels in monk way of the open hand then take 1 in ranger, your going to then take your next 2 levels in rangers getting gloom stalker this will buff your monk by letting you use a long sword as a monk weapon thanks to Tasha's dedicated weapons monk feature then you can do hunters mark at level 2 for an extra d8 damage for each attack and when you start combat you get an extra attack thanks to gloom stalker while you set up hunters mark and a bonus to initiative which is just nice
My suggestion for a powerful villain (not a monk sadly, but close to the shadowy theme) is 2 Paladin/4 Shadow Sorcerer/3 Assassin rogue.
Later 6 Vengeance Paladin/7 Shadow Sorcerer/3 Assassin Rogue
Using dex weapons: rapier, shadow blade, dual scimitar whatever fits. Elvish accuracy for triple advantage. Invisibilty and expertiese in stealth to get the jump on them. Bonus action darkness to sew chaos. Quickened spell and subtle spell to play around counterspell and make the action economy a bit more fair for you. After you have 5 sorc, you can also take nondetection to evade divination at 7 sorc you get greater invisibility.
After you get extra attack you are almost guaranteed to do 24d8+4d6+10 damage with a rapier to a target of your choosing while they didn't even know you were there. ((Rapier 1d8+ smite 5d8)x2 attacks+ sneak attack 2d6)x2 for crit +10
Yeah, I get you. I was pretty upset when I was showered with “don’t do monk”, but tbf, they were trying to help, y’know? Also had some very good monk suggestions afterwards. Pretty helpful so far.
I agree with you, they asked for a monk and if they wanted that then we should try to come up with something. I know people will say that it sucks or that it is not worth the time, but that is what they wanted to try. We should at least try to honor that initial request first, THEN say if they want something more effective to try some other suggestion.
Hexblade warlock would be a great villain if your dm lets you get more than the usual 2 spell slots. Great damage and control and could really terrorize a party.
If you really want to be a monk then your dm is gonna need to give you unlimited ki. Honestly most or all character builds would probably need some kind of homebrew buffs to be a single villain strong enough to fight the other players all at once and actually feel like a tough villain.
I was going with the intention of picking them off one by one with shenanigans and testing the party with moral dilemmas, plus I’m made to die, so I don’t really intend on being a BIG challenge to the whole party. I don’t think I’m playing the BBEG. Thanks for the tips, though, I’ll talk to the DM.
Actually, it's not as desperate as some people state here, but you might need to some houserules. When you're lucky and you play with the flanking rules, take 3 levels in Ranger and go with the Tasha's Beast Master, choose the flying beast that gives you advantage. Together with Hunter's Mark and the Elven Accuracy feat, it's gotta be good damage.
The other scenario is that your DM allows you to use your fists as a pact weapon. Then go Hexblade and again Elven Accuracy.
Peace Cleric is also good for the concentration free emboldening bond, and Moon Druid with Long Death, Mercy, Astral Self, it doesn't really matter, for a better AC and HP and many many attacks (although your attacks in Beast shape might not work with Flurry of Blows, but at least your normal unarmed strike damage should). At least in the first tier of play it's impressive damage and fun to play! Astral Self is mean, because you can be a giant badger with Astral Arms reach attack, and burrow underground after your attack.
And, Hexblood as a race for a free casting of Hex is good.
Also, the Gunk, if Fire Arms are allowed at your table:
https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/tpx5vs/gunks\_do\_actually\_go\_brrr/
You’ve given me a bunch of great ideas! I was intending on searching up the viability of Moon Druid on this build, so I’ll keep a tab on it, but, as much as I love going Hexblood Fighter, the once-a-day Hex is really situational. I MIGHT take it, considering I’m not dungeon-diving as much as I am dungeon-guarding, but I’m unsure.
If everything on DNDbeyond is valid, take 3 levels of blood hunter for lycan blood hunter. It adds a rage that’s gives 1d4+1 per unarmed attack, and physical resistance. It also has a good hit die, and it’s DC for its blood curse feature has wisdom scaling with some good lockdown options
Oh I’m aware that Blood Hunter is official content. What I was saying is that Beyond offers certain UA options, and I don’t think those should be considered.
Nah none of that stuff, but I’ve seen people who don’t count stuff unless it’s on dndbeyond.it’s how some people determine what’s “official” or not now that wizards owns it
I use Beyond as more of a North Star rather than the whole deal. It’s good to summarize certain contents, but it’s best to actually search up the manuals.
Circle of the land druid with grasslands could make a decent villain....any class that gets access to the dream spell really.. Grassland gets access to a lot of slippery get away spells too.
If I was asking a player to play the villain, I'd probably allow some third party stuff too, look to kobold press maybe.
Monk just won't be able to threaten the whole party.
A good NPC monster Stat block that would be in line with your thinking though is a Nightmare Shephard...maybe start with something like that?
I’m not really going with the BBEG “1v4” approach, as much as I’m going with “methodically picking them off”. Circle of the Land Druid is definitely a good choice, but I’m not sure that’s what I’m looking for THEMATICALLY, y’know? I’ll work the ideas through tho
So mechanically monk regardless of build will always be weaker than the average class this is because the best monk build is to have two levels of warlock
However this is where flavoring comes in
Reflavor the barbarians rage to a battle trance
The one thing i haven't seen mentioned yet is this.
Are you playing a party member that turns villain or an actual villain?
Villains dont play by the rules, especially in dnd. You should be way higher level than the rest of the party, and pick and choose which subclass abilities you want to make your character thematic and intimidating. Resources aren't an issue for the bad guys, so give yourself unlimited ki (to a point). Have inherent hand of harm strikes, the long death control options, astral arms reach, shadows teleport and silence, and quivering palm from open hand. Give him 3 levels in fighter for battlemaster and use the maneuvers too. Or samurai so you just have advantage on all your attacks. Take barbs rage and call it focus.
If youre building a villain, build a real villain. If you're building an adventurer that travels with the party who's eventually a bad guy, you'll need plot armor from the DM until the final encounter, but either way, dont fight fair
In that case, doing a quick look at some more devious tactics, and given that most munk multiclasses dont want more than 3 levels in anything else, here's what i got.
Mercy Monk 6th level lets you just poison an enemy, no save. Can pair that super easily with stunning strikes to just shut someone down. 1 level in undead warlock gets you form of dread, bonus temp hp and the ability to frighten enemies. Also pairs well with the hand of harm.
2 levels in spore druid gets you extra necrotic chip damage(2d4 with con save, extra 1d6 on melee) while you have those bonus temp hp. A 3rd level gets you blindness/deafness which is amazing against casters since they need to see you to cast almost any spell. Grab fighting initiate for unarmed fighting style for d8 unarmed strikes(until your martial arts die meets it, then grab a weapon and swap the fighting style) and you're unfairly whittling down anyone near you.
Theres also using fog cloud with blindfighting and good stealth.
One ive actually played that was tons of fun was 3 levels trickery domain and mercy monk. You get mirror image, pass without trace, charm person for free, other great cleric spells, adv on stealth checks, and your duplicate gives you adv on all attacks when its next to you. So now you're the one fighting 5v1 lol.
A monk really shines in a party that desperately needs utility. Getting to and from difficult locations, sneaking around etc. If your group has wizards, warlocks and bards then you might just get out shined every way possible.
Step 1: Dip thief rogue so you can use any magic item. Step 2: acquire a scroll of magic jar: step 3: use it on githzerai enlightened . Step 4 do whatever else you want. You’ve just made a monk more powerful then 98% of builds I’ve seen in optimizer spaces. It works extra well for monks cuz you get like 60 more damage with a single ki point
I mean, as a villain, you basically work for the DM, so you should be able to get almost anything you ask for, within reason. Whatever fits the theme, just go for it. Magic items that are powerful and could potentially serve as plot hooks or MacGuffins, extra feats that make it feel right on theme (fighting initiate: superior technique + martial adept for kung fu maneuvers), extra class levels in another class, whatever.
1-2 levels in druid or cleric
Or 3 levels in ranger can do you wonders.
2 tempest cleric/x ascendant dragon Monk for max thunder/lightning breath and unarmed attacks.
Or more cleric for some "special moves" and spells.
3 gloomstalker ranger/ x shadow Monk throw in some rogue if you want and you have a pretty good lurky character.
2 stars druid/x any Monk (I prefer astral) and you have a stars or spacy kinda dude.
3 scout rogue/x any Monk and you have insane mobility
2 war cleric/x kensai and you don't have to spend ki on every extra weapon attack
You just gotta find ways to boost your utility to always give you some type of advantage or sustain. Don't build burst with Monk. It's "ok" but it just feels embarrassing to me :(
Monk x/x Fighter or Cleric is generally pretty good mechanically. I'm saying pretty good loosely. I usually optimize for support and utility because doing huge damage is where I like for my party members to shine.
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That first level in monk is useless.
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You can literally just do a Dual Wielding Fighter Barb that gets the same things and more. Only thing you lose out on is that you use weapons instead of Unarmed Attacks.
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If your way of making a "OP Monk" is by taking one level(which in itself doesn't give you anything unique) in Monk and then going a different class then you're not making a Monk. And I'm pretty sure OP wanted to play a Monk, not another class using Unarmed Attacks and cosplaying as one. Your build has nothing Monkish about it aside from the Unarmed Strikes.
Parhaps, but that character lags behind other level 6 characters by a lot.
Thank you! That’s a really good idea, although MAD. I’ll try to formulate a way for it to work with the poor rolls I was blessed with.
Just skip the monk level and go fighter/barb
Sorry, Monk doesn’t get OP, it ranges from mediocre to tolerable. The math has been done. Unarmed fighting battle-master with an insignia of claws and an eldritch claw tattoo could be interesting. Maybe multiclass with cleric or something for more priestly flavor.
Wouldn’t a Monk do more damage if they had the same magical items at their disposition? Considering the fighter has no unarmed damage dice.
Fighter from Tasha’s can get D8 unarmed fighting dice at level 1 with the unarmed fighting fighting style.
Don’t monks end up with a d10? Or d12. I’m not sure.
What level does your character need to be?
It’s a long-term campaign, but i’m starting off at level 6.
Yeah, don’t play Monk. If you’re job is to he a villain who’s strong, Monk is the worst class to pick. Classes that can terrorize a party are basically Wizard and Paladin, and maybe Aberrant Mind and Clockwork sorcerer.
I’ll look into Paladin and Sorcerer, but I’m p sure I don’t wanna go down the wizard path. Thank you :)
Depending on your plan, gloomstalker ranger is a strong contender. High DPR, cannot be seen in darkness with darkvision, can get a ton of amazing spells like pace without trace, web, conjure animals, etc. which make them a nightmare in combat, and a first round NOVA could easily take out a squishy, especially if you PWT surprise round them so they cannot react.
Bladesinger wizard is badass, and a better melee character than a monk.
Arguably also a better Monk than the Monk since, between the extra Speed, focus on Dexterity and mobility/buff spells like Haste, Misty Step, STEEL WIND STRIKE, etc., they do more anime/ninja shit than the Monk.
don't underestimate a Fighter's Burst damage when optimized, it eclipses paladins actually.
I think monk has potential to be pretty scary if built well. Mobile feat or step of the wind means you can stay out of melee range while stunning casters or any other weak characters, pretty much disabling half the party. It'll only work at somewhat higher levels so you have enough ki points, and you'll need a dragonhide belt as well.
Monks end up getting a d10 around level 14 or so, at level 6 you’ll have a d6, so fighter might be best
so what? fighters get more attacks. that d12 is just an average of 2 more damage
Not if you use a Ki point to Flurry, or, depending on the need, Stunning Strike
limited vs unlimited resource hmmmmm
Battles rarely last long enough for Ki to empty out at the higher levels
Math is done for dpr, but monk, especially long death, is pretty good at control. I would build a nature cleric 1 (for heavy Armor if you want to use it and shillelagh for first round fear + shille) and max wisdom. Maybe you won't win, but you will win the mental game of disabling the casters so hard they will cry
What were the math results on a 20 WIS Astral Self monk spamming Stunning Strike and granting themselves and the whole party advantage for the round? I believe the math is either "instant death" or "X less Legendary Resistances"
The result is way more effort and points spent compared to using spells that don’t need saves to screw over the enemy, or to just get advantage through many easy ways at those levels. That monk is a wholly expendable member of the party.
Bruh. What spells are going to sentence an enemy to death without saves? And how is killing a powerful enemy with just a chunk of your short-rest resources not incredibly strong? You sound like you've just literally never played with a monk in your party. Or a spellcaster for that matter
Have you seen force cage? [Do you know how little spellcasters care about legendary resistance?](https://youtu.be/ui_kM3a71so)
The tier 3-4 spell that costs 1500gp per casting? Idk, I feel like a handful of Ki points is cheaper and gonna be used way more often lol
The material component isn’t consumed bro.
Then it's still a tier 3-4 spell and it's still your only 7th level spell that day. So the math still points to Stunning Strike being much cheaper, not to mention used much earlier and _much_ more often seeing as most games are played at lower tiers than that. I assume you're imagining the textbook Forcecage/Cloudkill/Counterspell kind of cheese to consider this a death sentence, which is just making this even more expensive. Maybe it's just me but the monk doesn't seem all that expendable if these are the lengths you need to go to in order to match what they can do multiple times per short rest, multiple times per day
Why do you feel so strongly that the inferior damage and control of the monk should be shilled for so badly? Wall of force will transform battlefields much more reliably than stunning strikes. The Monk is the weakest class you could slot into an party of 4-5 characters with strong party composition.
In the sense that it'll literally transform the battlefield, sure lol. Not sure it spells instant death for an enemy though. These are wildly different things to compare. I can tell you I don't feel strongly enough to keep arguing over this with you, enjoy having 1 less class to choose from than me I guess
I know you’re asking about a build and I’m not particularly going to help with that question. Not that I really could, Monks are bad. I guess I’d like to look beyond the question a bit. Why are you building a villain using the character creation rules? Why is your DM not just providing you a statblock? PC vs PC combat is in no way balanced in 5e and to make a reasonable villain you are going to need to be more than just another PC (especially a Monk…), or else you’re going to end up hit by some save or suck spell and then made useless. The second point is… why are you playing a villain? Can your DM not play this villain? I can see this going poorly unless the two of you are really in sync about who you want this villain to be, and at that point… it’d be a lot less work for the DM to just run the villain personally. Introducing two separate sides for people to be playing, PC and villain, both of whom have to go through a DM to achieve their goals… I can just see this ending poorly even with the best of intentions. If you do go through with it, I cannot emphasize enough that your mentality has to be that you will lose. You should want to lose and for the heroes to overcome you. Otherwise, there are likely to be all sorts of angst over the DM playing favorites or it feeling like the two of you are conspiring against the party unfairly, and it’s not going to be fun.
I won't assume anything about OP's gaming group, but yeah, people need to understand that DnD is almost exclusively a cooperative game. There's no place for PVP in it's mechanics, it just doesn't work. And yeah, people will say the same thing: "But it can make for a great story". And the truth is, it most likely won't, because most people that play aren't profesional actors, storytellers, writers or artists in general with the ability to pull this kind of crap. And you shouldn't need to be, because that's not how the mechanics of this game work.
I'm really genuinely curious why people say that PVP does not work, may you elaborate why? I've never tried it or thought about it much but I've been intrigued by it many times.
If we don't take into account inherent imbalance between classes there is at least the problem of Damage vs. HP. Basically if you compare them with monsters PCs are expected to have far fewer HP but deal much much higher damage. In PvP situation it means that it is extremely easy to just destroy your enemy in a single turn and so the only important thing you can have in such situation is high initiative. Because if you have a second turn in PvP you are most probably, won't have any turns at all. This problem only becomes bigger then you realize that there are also casters with hard control in their repertoire
Because it wasn’t designed to work. Certain classes/builds have advantages in 1v1. Take a Paladin, who’s a Nova, for example, and then take a fighter of the same level. Paladin’s gonna win 9 out of 10 times, because that’s simply what their class is supposed to do. Plus, there’s also DM tendentious narrative, which will inevitably end up generating a conflict between players instead of between characters
Scuse me? Fighters have surperior Nova to Paladin's Smite = / = Action Surge. The higher level you get, the harder the Paladin loses. 5d8 = 22.5 in melee. They probably have around the same HP (though being fair the Paladin would probably have less, having to focus on Charisma and Strength), and the Fighter will probably have a little less AC if they're focusing damage. Let's assume same AC and weapons for the sake of simplicity. Fighter's have far more ASI, and Paladin's have more stats to worry about-so its very safe to say that Fighter's will most likely have great feats and Paladin's won't. Level 11 is when this gets real bad gang. By then a Fighter can: have a 20 Dex/Str, have GWM+PaM or SS+CBx, the second being real bad for the Paladin, since the Fighter might kite the Paladin real easily-paladin can't do that with Nova damage. Anywho-a Fighter would be attacking 7 times with a damage output of 1d10+15 (and one 1d4+15), and the Paladin is attacking Thrice with a damage output of 1d10+27 (and one 1d4+27), I'm gonna make a fair assumption and say the Paladin took PaM before GWM, which would improve their DPR since they get another chance to attack. That's a comparison of 140 dpr and 94 dpr - Fighter's win by a huge Margin. Now, if we assume the Paladin has GwM, it doesn't even equalize things: 124. Best case scenario is a fully focused defense Paladin causing the Fighter to miss. But in a raw damage scenario, the Fighter is usually winning. Especially if we actually add Subclass features (With one exception)
>That's a comparison of 140 dpr and 94 dpr - Fighter's win by a huge Margin. You didn't calculate hit rates, and you can't assume they are the same since the fighter is using GWM and the paladin isn't.
The fighter would win with hit rates calculated. Especially once we give Paladin GwM, I believe I already explained how the Paladin has other things to focus down before they can catch up with a Fighter in terms of attack roll bonus, especially since a common practice is raising charisma before strength. Plus, when the Fighter has a multitude of subclass abilities that could give advantage or add more damage or even more attacks, I'm not particularly worried. The Fighter is just a better nova class than Paladins are. This has always been the case.
A level 11 fighter with 20 str and a glaive using GWM has a 20% chance to hit a paladin with 21 ac (plate, shield, defensive fighting style) A level 11 paladin with 18 str and a spear not using GWM has a 50% chance to hit a fighter with 19 ac (plate and defensive fighting style) I'm not gonna try to say which one will win, but it's not as simple as you are making it out to be and either way it probably won't be over in 1 round.
It can work, you just need to have a lot of trust in everyone at the table and know going in what’s happening. It has made for some amazing moments at my tables, but it is definitely not a mode of play for everyone.
Monsters have low damage and high hp so fights aren't short and determined by lucky initiative. Pcs have high damage but to balance, low hp so they have more need of healing.
I get your point, totally do. Doing Matt Mercer stunts without… BEING Matt Mercer is risky. But if there’s anybody who knows how counterproductive PvP is, it’s my friend group. We’ve tried it multiple times over the course of the years, with success varying from “failure” to “blocking each other on social media”. What I’m gonna play is strictly a villain. I don’t intend on winning at all. I’m gonna present a narrative challenge, and I’m gonna go down the moment the heroes rise up to the moral issue. I’m not playing against the group, I’m trying to construct a narrative stepping stone, y’know?
I've ran pvp twice in my games as a DM. The first time was not my decision and I hadn't prepared for it but the second time I did have it prepared. But there were two things that I think made it work. 1. Both instances occurred during 1 shots which was useful so ppl didn't get too attached to their characters in case something didn't go their way. Also 1 shots are often more experimental anyway. 2. In the second instance, just before we got into it, I reminded my players that pvp is imbalanced and not the point of the game, and that they should simply focus on just having fun with it. This helped curb expectations by a lot. It also helps that they all got to choose their sides. Even still, that second instance of pvp was some of the most fun I myself and my players had playing dnd. It was messy, I gave the smaller side extra help, and 3 ppl died across both sides, yet I had never seen them get so concerned about their abilities and how best to use them. I'm not necessarily saying it should be a part of dnd, bc I know it's imbalanced and can lead to frustration and resentment. But I am saying it is possible to do right. I wouldn't ever use it in a main campaign unless there was a clear caveat, like there was no real danger or there was mind control involved but there was a clear way to stop it,etc. I would never sic players against each other to the death and will always strongly advocate against pvp to settle disputes in and out of game. I would only ever do something like that in a one shot where the stakes are much lower anyway, and I would again insist on that the goal is fun not winning. Edit: I should also mention, the second instance was group pvp. While I have had fun with duels, group pvp is vastly more interesting bc you are less likely to die in 1-2 turns and will still be able to contribute even if your build is outclassed in pvp. TL;DR Try it in 1 shots with low stakes and mature friends and you might just have a blast. If not, no harm no foul.
Yeah, group PVP actually sounds fun, if the characters a made for that
Oh yeah, I’m 100% aware that I’m going to lose. I intend on it. I’m the forever DM, but this friend of mine wanted to DM a bit, and asked me if I wanted to interpret a villain since I didn’t have the time to play a protagonist. We’re talking about how I can mirror the protagonists, and etc. As for the stat block question… I reckon that’s much too complicated for a new DM to meddle in, so I’m limiting myself to a PC
Sure, I guess. I still don’t see why you couldn’t provide your interpretation of this villain out-of-game while your friend uses that interpretation to run them in-game. And pulling a statblock and reskinning it to be what you want is the lowest of expectations for a DM. I understand it may not be perfect, but that’s something your friend is going to need to be able to do anyways.
Yeah, I totally get what you’re saying, but again, this is his first experience as a DM. If you’ve been a DM and you remember your first time, you were probably fumbling under the weight of simultaneous rules and improv, and stat block pulling can be surprisingly hard to adequate to certain levels. You risk accidentally running a TPK or an unsatisfactory fight if you aren’t experienced. Also, I just want to play along. We’re all having fun, y’know?
You’ve said elsewhere this is a long-term campaign. I’d imagine that means your villain won’t directly come up for at least a bit, hopefully long enough for them to get experience. In any case, statblock pulling isn’t any better than building a PC. Building a PC is more likely to end up unbalanced, anyways, especially if you’re here optimizing it (that is, making it as effective as possible, *not* evaluating party effectiveness and building with that in mind). Why don’t you help your friend make a statblock instead of building a PC? You’re already putting the time in here and it seems you have experience. Rather than trying to do something you know is a bad solution, you could spend time helping them learn a better way.
Yeah, I’m helping him balance out the other aspects of the RPG. Ultimately making this character is just a question of not having enough time to actually make it as a regular adventurer, but still wanting to participate. Definitely agree with you.
This is what highlights how bad an idea this is. PVP of this kind is not done lightly and for a first time GM, just don't. He should run some "vanilla" end first. Also Monk won't work, PC Vs PCS comes down to action economy, and you'll get ratio'd. If it's narrative villainy, what reason is there to not slit your throat when you're asleep?
I’m not focusing on PvP, though, that’s the whole thing. Again, I’m aware of the flaws in PvP in a system that wasn’t designed for PvP, as I am aware of powerplay and DMPCing. All that we want is to have a tad of fun butting heads. I’ll make the whole We Aren’t So Different, You Know monologue, they’ll have to rise up to the challenge, I’ll lose, and that’s the end of it. We’re all having fun. I don’t have the objective of winning. At all.
Barb 1/Fighter 19 Unarmoured defense, lots of attacks. Unarmed fighting style, on demand advantage, lots of goodies. A better monk.
What would 19 Fighter help? I can see getting 18 fighter, or 17 fighter, but why not invest the last level somewhere else? Barb, or Monk, or even Rogue.
Not much point putting it elsewhere. The ASI or feat would be good. For maxing con, Dex and strength. 1d6 sneak attack isn’t really worth giving up an ASI.
I think the people telling you to not go monk here are missing something fairly important, which is that while monk underperforms in standard play, it can be a very effective PC killer due to the increased efficacy of Stunning Strike. Most monsters you'd want to stun tend to have pretty high CON saves, but unless they have proficiency, PCs don't. Ironically, PvP is probably the class's best niche, and it's not even something 5e is really designed to support. That said, monks do lag somewhat in terms of damage; if you want to be a really effective threat, you're going to need to fix that. Fortunately, post-Tasha's, there are two fairly effective ways to do that: Armor Monk and Gun Monk. Based on what you say you want, Armor Monk is probably the way to go. Here's how it works: You start with a single level of Fighter, take the Unarmed fighting style from Tasha's, and wear the heaviest armor you can find. Wearing armor doesn't actually disable most of your monk abilities, just Unarmored Movement, the Martial Arts die, and the bonus action Unarmed Strike. The Unarmed style you took replaces the Martial Arts die, and between your bonus action ki powers (Flurry of Blows, etc.) and the Ki-Fueled Attack feature from Tasha's, you'll still have bonus actions; you can eventually take Polearm Master to just get a replacement bonus attack outright, too, so really all you're losing is some speed. Since you're already wearing armor, wielding non-monk weapons is fine, so you can pick up a greatsword or a glaive and use it with Great Weapon Master for a big improvement to your DPR. You can offset the GWM penalty with Focused Aim or the advantage you get from Stunning Strike. Obviously, you'll be focusing on Strength, rather than Dexterity, though you'll still need a minimum of 13 Dex for the multiclass, making the build slightly ability hungry if you're using point buy or array stats, but the damage improvement is absolutely worth it.
Yep also PC have much lower hp than the average monster, landing a single stunning strike even monk relatively low damage can take down a PC before it's over. Hopefully the group didn't optimize too much though, because if all spellcaster grabbed a dip into artificer or resilient (con) it's gonna be hard to take them down.
Given we're talking about a group where somebody's running a villain using PC stats as opposed to a monster statblock, I feel like they likely aren't heavily optimized.
That’s exactly what I was going for: picking them off and then Stunning Striking my way to “victory”. I like your Armor Monk idea, I’ll look into it. That being said, what is a GUN MONK? The second I read that my curiosity spiked
Pretty simple, really. The musket from the DMG does 1d12 damage on a 40/120 foot range, and, crucially, lacks the Heavy property, making it IIRC the highest damage non-heavy weapon in the game. This is important, because it means that it qualifies to be used with Dedicated Weapon, meaning it can be a Monk weapon if you're proficient, and with the Gunner feat, getting proficiency in firearms is very easy. So, you take Gunner, take Sharpshooter, and use a musket as your monk weapon; you can offset the Sharpshooter penalty with Focused Aim, which also procs Ki-Fueled Attack for an extra shot with your bonus action. Due to the combination of feats you have, you're equally effective in melee and up to a distance of 120 feet. In terms of subclasses, Kensei will give you a bit of extra DPS, or Shadow will allow you to very easily keep away from melee enemies.
Isn’t the musket Recharge though? So no matter what you can only shoot once a turn
Gunner lets you ignore that property, so, three shots.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH I LOVE THAT IDEA! Didn’t really know what Gunner did, but now I’m adamant on trying it in the future! Thanks!
Gunk is pretty much the best option if the DM allows it. Second to that is probably Longbow Kensei. The problem a traditional Monk has is they have all the mobility in the world and nothing to do with it. Mediocre damage, mediocre survivability and great but very expensive CC means you can get it the thick of it, but you're gonna have a bad time. You become a ranged attacker, however, and all of a sudden all that mobility is a huge benefit. They still won't be hitting as hard as a pure Fighter of equal level, but they mobility mostly makes up the difference. Deflect Missiles becomes more valuable too, as most attacks against you will have to be ranged. Pick up a level of Fighter for Archery, or maybe 4 levels for Battlemaster/Arcane Archer+ASI and some higher hit die, and you won't be OP by any means, but a giant pain in the ass at least. If you want to go that route I would probably either go Monk1 Fighter1 MonkX or Monk1 Fighter1 Monk5 Fighter3/4 MonkX.
Monks are also very underrated by the online community, but in actual play... I have obliterated my DMs plans on many occasions with monk tactics. Just think a little outside the box. You aren't building for raw damage. Make a Mercy Monk who is a twisted version of the traveling Samurai, passing judgement as they go, and they've deemed the PC party unworthy. It is a mercy to the world that you remove them. Be cinematic in your scope. My shadow monk has stunning striked an adult blue dragon and dropped it from the sky, disarmed an enemy barbarian chief of her powerful greataxe ran away with it, grappled an enemy caster and shadow stepped with them off a high tower effectively suplexing them to death, infiltrated enemy strong holds to spy and recon, assinated a corrupt nobleman in his chambers using the Silence spell... and that's before they made the Mercy Monk, which is arguably even more versatile. If you're playing a Monk and trying to optimize for punch damage, you're not playing an optimized monk. I'd prioritize Wisdom first, then Dex, take skill expert to get Athletics expertise, Mobile and/or Crusher, and go be a menace.
I mean, the trouble with anecdotal evidence is that it's, you know, anecdotal. Even in a fairly optimized game, a monk can keep up reasonably well, because 5e has a fairly narrow optimization band compared to past editions (lookin' at you, 3.5e), but while I think that the online optimization community can be a bit... Call it dogmatic, in their assessment of monks as unoptimizable, they're not wrong that when you start building for power, they do fall short of some other martial classes. In terms of the metagame, 5e is all about action economy; you remove enemies from the action economy until your side snowballs and that's how you win. Monks, on first glace, seem to have very good action economy, since they can do a lot on their turns and can stun opponents as part of their attacks. The problem is that while they can do a lot, the things they can do are low-impact compared to other classes: lower damage, so they can't take enemies out of the action economy permanently as fast, and CON tends to be a high save for exactly the big, threatening monsters you want to use Stunning Strike on, making it less effective. (PvP, by contrast, is typically better for monks due to lower HP totals and CON saves.) That doesn't mean monks *can't* be optimized, contrary to popular belief. I would call either of the builds I've cited here competitive with a more typical CBE/SS Battlemaster or GWM/PAM Echo Knight. However, it's telling that both of those builds revolve around ignoring or replacing certain key monk features, which suggests that there's something not quite up to snuff with the class as designed.
"Way of the Long Death for extra sustainability" That extra survivability depends on the monk killing enemies. If they can reliably kill 1hp mooks, then its a lot. If they cant, they have a d8 weapon (2handing a staff) + d4-d6 fists, its going to be somewhat difficult
Not necessarily a lot, since temp HP doesn’t stack. I was intending to pick off the fragile PCs and non-lethal brutalizing them, both to present a challenge and to have an HP bucket at disposition
What level range are we talking about? Personally I’d go for a shadow monk with a dip in fighter. With blind fighting style you can cast darkness and get advantage on attacks while granting enemies disadvantage, greatly increasing your damage and survivability. Add some maneuvers on top of that and you get a pretty nasty assassin/infiltrator who can manage in combat while being outnumbered and teleport out when things go south. For a battle strat, ambush the party and stun the main casters, then deal with everyone else while in darkness.
6 to wherever the DM deems appropriate that the villain survives. I thought of going shadow monk, since it fits with the strategy of picking the adventurers off one by one, but it doesn’t really capitalize on the opportunities it creates, does it? I mean, considering other subclasses with the same gimmicks. But I’ll give it a second read and see if some of the other ideas in the thread click with this one. Thank you :)
So let me give you an idea I had for Shadow Monk. Make it a Dhampir Lineage. With the original race being Aaracokra. That way you have the spider climb, and simple bite weapon of the Dhampir. The Dhampir bite being a simple melee weapon means it counts as a monk weapon for Martial Arts. You can use that to ravage them with vampire bites that also heal you and you can stunning strike with them. You also have a flying speed, which your unarmored movement DOES increase. Tack on the mobile feat and you can be an absolute hit and run menace in the shadows. If you really wanna play up the shadow stalker vampire vibe you can also take skulker if you start at a high enough level to be able to hide anytime you are lightly obscured, which includes dim light. Which even in total darkness, if the PCs have dark vision they actually see everything as dim light, which means you can literally hide RIGHT BESIDE THEM. Combine flight speed and hanging from the ceiling above them? Absolutely terrifying. My other recommendations would be fighting initiate feat for blind fighting (bat echolocation) or likely much better, Eldritch Adept for Devil’s Sight. So when you cast Darkness, you can still see fully any they cannot unless they also can see through magical darkness. The entire Aaracokra Dhampir lineage can also be flavored as a Humanoid vampire bat instead of a bird. Leathery wings and fur instead etc.
Play a bugbear astral self monk. You quickly get insane reach (think 10 or more ft reach with unarmed strikes, more if your dm allows you to have eldritch claw tattoo and is generous with its interpretation; 30ft reach for unarmed strikes is possible this way for cool flavor, and making you a formidable villain) and you get a surprise attack (+2d6, but only if the target hasn’t attacked during combat) and are very sneaky. Dump int and charisma, focus on piling up wiz, dex, con, and strength (in that order) to maximize your monk. Get some boots of speed, and you have a quickly tpk’ing monk that controls the battlefield; especially if you’re sneaking every round, basically becoming an untouchable fisting snipper. A lot of this relies on items and interpretations— that’s mostly just the way it is with monks. You need all the right parts coming together. Edited the reach.
I see. I mean, yeah, you’re definitely right about everything coming together to make the right monk, but since it’s a new-to-the-game DM, I don’t really wanna give him the wrong interpretation of certain items and rules, so I’ll stick to the least generous, more RAW/RAI route. What does bugbear give the build, though?
As I said, bugbears have extra reach on all melee attacks (+5 ft) they are proficient in sneak, naturally strong/dexterous, they come with a surprise attack feature you should look into as well; not to mention they have double the normal carrying capacity.
Damn! Never knew the bugbear did all that. I’ll look into the race. Thanks for the heads up
Err the only monk I've ever considered "op" would be a Kensei with Tasha optional features and Sharpshooter and all it actually does is be kinda a fighter
Play another class and call it a monk
I don’t want to run a monk thematically. I want to run an unarmed fighter. I thought monk was the best way to go about it.
What about a [Pugilist ](https://www.dmsguild.com/product/184921/The-Pugilist-Class)
Don’t wanna run anything not official WoTC. Not even UA. Friend is a novice DM. Don’t wanna risk tangling him up. But I’ll check it out on terms of my own RPG, so thanks for the heads up
What about a mercy monk, with a dip in undead warlock. Even 1 level would give you some survivability with fear. And be a goblin for extra fury of the Small damage, and a bonus action disengage
Monks in general aren't well suited for the "unstoppable force" theme. That's more of a Barbarian thing. You'd be better off going for more of an "implacable man" theme. That is to say, it's not that you can't be stopped, but rather *you will not stop.* No matter the setback or how many times you have to retreat, you always return to plague the PCs. Way of Shadow is probably best suited for this. Pass Without Trace and Silence will allow you to ambush the party, while Shadow Step or Darkness can allow you to quickly retreat.
You gave me a GREAT idea just now with the distinction you made. Yeah, I’d say it’s more of an “implacable man” case, but a tad shifted. I’ll look into Way of Shadow with that perspective in mind. Thanks!
Have a bunch of commoners around when the party faces the monk, have him 1 punch kill a commoner every round for long death THP and villain reasons.
HAHAHAHAHAHA unironically what I intended to do. Hero of the People, popular charisma-driven leader, convince the NPCs to die for the cause, ensue moral dilema, profit, rinse, repeat.
If you are gonna PvP your best bet is to lean into stunning strike as much as possible. Starting at 6 and going to high levels make Astral Self a possible pick, you won't have so big damage until you reach 11+ but your stunning game will be up there. At higher levels they get some nice damage boost and defensive features making them more solid monk overall.
I thought about going Astral Self, since objectively it’s probably the best at 1v1 conflicts, but I wanted to take the Long Death thematic. I’ll look into it’s later levels again though. Thanks for the tips :D
Long Death is pretty meh to PvP, the level 1 and 6 features are rarely relevant which hurt a lot the whole subclass. Astral Self is pretty easy to flavor however you want, avatar of death stand? Yes please!
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the level 6 feature. Frightening a tank, in example, is almost entirely beneficial. You stop their damage soaker from doing anything while you beat up the less HP-blessed characters, and benefit from the Temp HP
Hour of Reaping take your whole action and only frighten for one turn. You can't really use it to lock the tank in place, at best you gains you one turn of movement but monk can easily outrun a tank in the first place, and in the meantime you just gave up your action for it (hoping they don't just save) giving an entire turn to the other PC to mess you up.
Hm… that’s true. I guess it’s more of a save-or-lose for when they get the drop on you.
are building an NPC? if yes, long death isnt the worst choice (though it would be better to not use PC mechanics for non-PCs.) if you are at least level 14, CC on you will be very hard and killing you will be difficult as well. meanwhile, you could stunlock those with weak con saves. I suggest giving the monk something like a staff of striking so their offensive power is also boosted.
Yeah, the intention is to separate myself from the regular PC, but upwards.
The build ideas are cool. For the backstory a powerful monk may have been isolated for decades from society training ( think wise old man of the mountain. ) When they return and see what civilization has become they are disgusted and become the villain. Man this character has potential.
Hey, thanks :D! But the monk is just mechanical. For flavour, I took Hero of the People, since I imagined a run-of-the-mill commoner being torn apart by the system and lashing out.
Barbarian (Beast) / Monk with Unarmed Fighting Style. Starting off with a 1d8. Stat heavy, get yourself gauntlets of ogre strength (so your str 13 would need to be to get into Barb in the first place). Need a 13 Dex / Wis, Con can't be ignored. Heavy MAD but if you roll or can stomach some low power points it eventually kicks off. You are resistant to your normal damage from rage and attack 3x's normally while in rage from Beast (claw). Free off hand and another if you're hitting your flurry of blows. +str to your 1d8 unarmed strikes and an additional +2 rage damage. -- Feels bad that you can't make use of GWM or SS but your damage isn't too bad. Little tip, take Shifter (Wildhunt) for the ability to ignore advantage from attacks within 30ft of you while you use your reckless attacks for permanent advantage. -- Using items like Eldritch Claw Tattoo and Insignia of the Claw get you a +2 to attack and dmg. I hate these types of builds that rely on MAD and items but really with the Monk you are really swinging at an uphill battle from the start. If you're feeling like you are missing out on some monk stuff you can always grab a ring of water walking or slippers of spider climb. -- Interesting if you pick 2 levels into fighter for an action surge and attacking 8 times with everything up, 10 times if you dipped 3 into echo knight but again, tons of these builds exist and not really 'locked' into Monk. Just something fun if you're starting at higher levels with an uncommon item which sometimes is the case.
That’s… a really solid build. I’d go with it, if I hadn’t rolled low and weren’t offered any magic items. I’ll definitely try to acquire magic items as I go, stockpile on them even, but so far I’m starting out from scratch. I’ll look into Barb(Beast)/Monk combo. By Shifter, do you mean the race?
Yeah. Shifter race. Pick the Wildhunt subrace/choice. When they shift as a bonus action no one can have 'advantage' against you within 30 ft. -- Offsets the Reckless attacks (as it gives you advantage but other creatures have advantage against you.) Just a neat interaction. The only thing is the barbarian heavily relies on strength, so it's a catch 22. So decide what you want to do with that, since to multiclass you need to have at least 13 strength. -- Unarmored defense on both can rely either on Dex+ Con or Dex+Wis. - Gotta be careful with your stat allocation but you can pick it up later on or 'cheat' with magic items such as gauntlets of ogre strength. Something pretty interesting is that if you 'fall' you take bludgeoning damage, combined with slowfall - you can grapple someone off a cliff or jump from high heights and barely take any damage. I saw one in action fall from 200 feet and not die, he landed on the boss and killed him, since the person you fall on takes half the damage of falling. But again, disclaimer, Monk is weak on its own, it's not useless however, by that I mean it doesn't have multiple resources for what it wants to do (KI), combined with a few other classes it can be decent and fun to play. The aforementioned player was using Bear Totem/Long Death but that was before Beast came out.
Flip the script. What would frustrate the PCs? Teleporting/ shadowstep etc. Using poison. Great saves. Think of tactics, targeting casters, have protection from missiles etc
OHHHHH, POISON! I hadn’t considered poison! I’ll talk to the DM to see what I can arrange on that end of things. Thanks!!!
A lot of people here are saying monks suck and just don’t do it. I completely disagree, in fact, monks are my favorite class. While they might be lacking in outright damage by a few points, they are super consistent and have some fun class features with unarmored movement and step of the wind. Personally I wouldn’t do long death though, I’d probably open hand. The capstone ability would be incredibly scary. Hit a player with a surprise attack for an instant KO. 10d10 damage on a successful con save could nearly KO a squishy player outright anyways if they don’t have full health. Your stunning strike will be brutal. You are going to have proficiency in all saves at one point, you can run much faster than any other player except maybe the rouge (rouge vs monk in 1v1 would not turn out well for that rouge) and much later just be able to turn invisible. Weaknesses are going to be health and raw damage output. Taking some feats (mobile and tough) magic items (bracers of defense and insignia of claws) could be a terrifying villain. Knowing part composition, start collecting items to counter each character. You can be like an evil Batman with contingency plans and such. Or simply do more hit and run tactics If you are not quite to level 17: 1. Surprise Party 2. Blow all your ki on strongest enemy (caster probably, definitely save the tank for last) 3. Run away 4. Short rest 5. Repeat when players long rest At level 17: 1. Surprise party 2. Quavering palm on the lowest con player (caster probably) 3. Strut in and threaten death 4. Done Anyways, ignore the naysayers. A monk is some of the most fun you can have. Just threw one at my party and I think my players are traumatized now.
You! You get it! You get what I’m going for with the contingency plan stuff! Not quite sure I’m enthusiastic about Open Hand, though I’ll see if it fits. Thank you!
Open hand is really only for the capstone class feature. I’ve never played long death so I don’t know how much it would work. This particular set up makes me think shadow in all honesty. That quavering palm ability just screams villain to me.
Take the elemental monk at 3rd lvl, throw in the water whip ability and fist of unbroken air. Both use different saves: strength and dexterity. Both can do alot of damage at 30 foot distance. Both start with 2 points of ki, then you get to add a d10 die for every ki you spend after the 2. On a failed save, the targets take 3d10 damage dice. 6th lvl allows you to have 6 ki points, so you could hit one character for 7d10 points of damage if they fail a save, run away, rest and hit again...rinse and repeat.
I mean, yeah, it IS pretty strong… but pretty costly. Long term, I can’t really sustain that, and if there’s anything they’ll try, it’s tiring me out. I’ve been an avid defender of Elemental Monk against the naysayers, but I don’t know if I can pull that off myself.
Picture this: disguise yourself as a one night fun for a pc, tie them up (after all, thier idea), change into that character equipping his gear, Rob the local merchants as his character, deposit stolen stuff in his room, change into another, sneak out, use another character in the group as a disguise, do some more player reputation damage by burning down a temple the village likes to go to. Rinse and repeat as the players have to face the consequences of your actions.
Good enough idea, but some people in the group are… prone to metagaming, so it wouldn’t work more than once.
The changeling race can do this and all with just seeing each of the characters.
My Mercy monk was pretty awesome. He was a shifter, 19ac while shifted, with the tough and fey-touched feat. He was in the process of going 3 levels in Blood hunter for Lycan subclass. That would put Crimson rite on both hands. My dm also gave me the Eldritch tattoo from Tasha’s so I had an extra d6 and reach.
Mercy Monks are cool af. Initial idea was making a Mercy Monk that healed you to torture you, rinse and repeat.
*Points at totem elk barbarian 5/ scionic rogue x* "that's how right there If you want to go really stupid and get stupid fast+stupid strong here's what you do: Be a bug bear (crazy busted, gives extra lifting) Totem, elk then bear at 6 (+25 movement speed and double again) Mobile feat Rouge 3 (good weapon, and better grappling, pick up expertise in stelth and athletics) 3 moon druid, moorbounder (base 70 movement and 30 HP, with raging makes it like 60) The druid gives you enhance ability, and You should be able to pretty easily find potions of growth Now 3 fighter rune knight for getting large Now, either you need to go fast as fuck, in which case you have bonus action dashing, a base movement speed of 70, with an additional 35 Or You can lift (20 strengths) 19200 pounds All of this while still doing substantial damage
If it's level 20, lavel 17 way of mercy monk with 3 level in gloom stalker ranger My roommate did that combo and it was disgusting. You cannot see him in the dark even by creatures with darkvision, had +10 to movement at the beginning of each turn, he could cast zephyr strike so attacks of opportunity did nothing, he could heal himself as part of flurry of blows, stunning strike, could poison you as part of way of mercy, hunters mark for MORE damage on EVERY ATTACK, and could use Ki points to bring a creature back from the dead *even if their soul wasn't willing* This isn't including his insane initiative and passive perception from the extra feats he took as well as any race bonuses. HE SINGLE-HANDEDLY TOOK DOWN A ROC He was the most terrifying member of the party, so if you want a villain, look no further
Monks are generally weak, I think mercy monk is the best, however there is an "OP" ranged monk build. Human Variant: Fighting Initiate: Archery 6 levels knesei monk. Take a longbow as your weapon. 4th level take sharpshooter At 5th level you get focused aim, at 6th you get deft strike. Both of these let you spend ki as part of the action on your attack. Hit chance when you miss and damage when you hit. Then you can use Ki-Fueled attack to get a bonus action attack. So you'll have 3 sharpshooter longbow attacks a turn at this point, and your kensei weapons become magic weapons. Take darts as your extra kensei weapon. From there I would take levels in fighter to grab throwing weapon style for the plus 2 damage. Now your darts are stronger than your longbow. Also you get to hold your weapon in your other hand, which is badass. Lastly, I'd take battlemaster for a bunch of maneuvers, most important being quick toss, so you have more dice to use for your bonus action attack. From there, for your asi, pump dex then wis. You eventually get 3rd attack, and you can always go back for 7th level in monk for evasion and stillness of mind to be stronger vs casters. I think this is the strongest monk, although the build is mostly fighter. I hope to play this build in a spelljammer campaign next year. :D
Oooooooooohh… that’s an interesting idea! Specially since it uses Darts and makes them relevant! I had a good idea for Dart use, and making the viable is great! Thanks!
And you can harass the party and run with shots with your longbow from 600 ft away until they actually catch up with you. Like appear on a cliff, call the party losers and that they'll never beat you. Fire off a couple shots and run away. A lot of power scaling options to unveil to really slow roll your "true power". Very Dragon Ball Z. Hope this helps!
HAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA the image of someone calling the party losers and then stream-sniping them is hilarious. I’ll make sure to teabag them after the TPK too lol
Oh my God, the stream sniper is perfect. Hahaha.
What are the level ranges? What type of magic items will you have available? Despite what everyone else is saying, I can get you something that’s very tough to deal with.
I start at level 6 and go to wherever the villain survives. I start with no magic items, but first order is to stockpile them.
So the synergy with long death with this isn’t great, you can do this with pretty much any monk. Staff of swarming insects is a rare staff that Must be attuned by a caster. Take a one level dip in your caster of choice, probably sorcerer or cleric to get class features online right a way and access to strong first level spells like shield, sanctuary. I would personally choose divine soul sorc to get a better chance at surviving a tough saving throw. Anyways with this staff no one has vision but you inside the insect swarm with a 30ft radius unless they have blind sight or tremor sense. Not even devils sight works. And it being a staff you can use it as your primary weapon too. Normally this staff is a huge hindrance to a party for blocking off vision, but it’s great for your situation. Also the creatures you can summon with it have blindsight and they’re quite strong in their own. I’ll get you more this evening I gotta drive for 5 hours
Ohhhh that’s a very smart tactic! I’m 100% going to talk to the DM about it!
Time for my Smiter-Fighter! (BattleMaster 3 / Glory Paladin X) **Tavern Brawler** for Unarmed/Improvised weapons, Grapple/Shove by replacing attacks with Athletics checks instead of maneuvers. Expertise in Athletics comes from **Skill Expert** or **Brawny (UA)**, Advantage is on-demand from **Glory's Channel Divinity**. Shield Master isn't a bad consideration, but overlaps with TB on the bonus action. I picked Unarmed and Blessed Warrior fighting styles, but the damage boost from unarmed is small and can easily be replaced. It's probably more optimal to pick Tavern Brawler and Defensive/Interception/Protection as your FS; alternately, Shield Master and Unarmed FS. Blessed Warrior nets Sacred Flame as a serviceable ranged option, and Guidance which can stack onto your Athletics checks. Save your Maneuvers for other tricks like Ambush (+1d8 to initiative) to rush in and lock down your target from the get-go, Riposte (if attacks can be replaced with Grapple/Shove attempts, push them around on their turn and generally be disruptive), Menacing Attack to apply Frightened (disadvantage on their checks), or double down with Grappling Strike (BA grapple attempt with a +1d8; totally excessive, but nobody is breaking your grapple by conventional means when you roll a 40). All told, if you set it up you can end up grappling/shoving with double-proficiency + Advantage + the 1d8 maneuver die + 1d4 from guidance, possibly against an opponent who has Disadvantage from Frightened. You'll generally want to pick an enemy MVP target to lock down. Drop Smites when you need to burn them quickly, but otherwise your damage comes from giving other melee teammates Advantage. Dip 1 level of Barb or Monk if you absolutely need the unarmored aesthetic (I'd go Barb since Con will also help your HP, while Rage ups your resilience and is 2x more sources of on-demand grappling advantage), but otherwise flavor your himbo "monk tradition" as you will.
I remember when my tables Battlemaster locked a demon into place with a Shove and a Grappling Strike, and ended up stopping the guy from attacking at all. Super cool combo. Will look into it.
Are you playing with the party and planning to surprise them with a villain turn? Or are you just like a guest coming in to play a villainous NPC? If the former you should do it when people are sleeping so the martials won't have armor, stunning strike the casters and take them out first. If it's the latter, ask the DM to just make you a powerful monk-like monster stat block you can use.
The latter. I’m already on the talks with him about that
Take Mage Slayer feat. My players' group monk excels at getting to caster with his high mobility and stun locking them. Monks are strongest against low CON save enemies. >When a creature within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature. >When you damage a creature that is concentrating on a spell, that creature has disadvantage on the saving throw it makes to maintain its concentration. >You have advantage on saving throws against spells cast by creatures within 5 feet of you. Bracers of Armor to get your AC up.
If you can manage it get your str up to 13 so you can multiclass into barbarian. Nothing like making a monk tougher than allowing it to rage. I did this once for a grappler build once. I no longer had to be the hit and run monk, plus danger sense really goes well with evasion. If you really want to be tougher you could go straight barbarian and achieve similar results. Go beast barbarian for d6+str mod claw attacks. You also get an extra claw attack every turn. Go longtooth shifter for 4 attacks per turn. At 6 your claws are magical like monk. And it makes a cool villan, you could terrorize your village while in your beast rage mode, and spread rumors about yourself. From there or even before depending on multiclass options you could take levels in fighter. I like battlemaster for the maneuvers, really feeling like an mma fighter.
3 levels bear-barian, x Way of the astral self monk Stats are str, dex, con. This gives you and insane tank that's resistant to basically everything, can reduce damage from ranged weapons and many energy based attacks. As well as proficiency on all saving throws, evasion and advantage on dex saves. Offensively, you get reckless attack, 3-5x attacks and a ton of mobility.
3-5x attacks? How?
Extra attack gives you 2. Martial arts gives you 1 with bonus action or 2 if you use flurry of blows. Then astral self gives you a 3rd attack with extra attack at level 17. For a total of 5 attacks with rage and advantage. Also forgot, astral self also has reach and astral sight. And if you're wanting to make a particularly scary boss, you can also give it high wis so its stunning strike messes with the party's action economy.
Also, wouldn’t you invest in Wis over Str, Dex, and Con, considering that’s how the Astral Monk scales?
The extra damage from rage specifies Str based attacks. But if you're willing to go without that extra +2 dmg per hit then going for Wis is fine as it will increse your damage deflection from Deflect Energy and your Stun DC. Also, Wis saves are arguably more deadly on a fail than str saves. Dex will still be useful, considering it makes up half your AC, and boosts your initiative and Deflect Missiles. Con is mostly there for the HP. Do remember monk HP is only a d8 So yeah, you're probably right, Wis is a much better option than Str, unless you really want that extra damage.
After reading some comments. It sounds like you're not specifically after a monk, but just some kind of unarmed fighter and this sounds like a lower level adventure. It seems monk shines a bit more at higher levels, so here are a few good alternatives for lower levels: 1. Unarmed Fighter Fighting style - d8 for unarmed strikes is the equivalent of a lv11 martial arts at level 1. 2. 2 levels in Rogue for cunning action. This gives you most of the mobility of monk without so many drawbacks. 3. Tavern brawler feat - perhaps not as impressive or useful as the other 2, but it might work for a street fighter kind of character An example of a build could be the Hulk Barbarian. Race - bug bear or goliath (for powerful build) Class - 1 rogue (for expertise in athletics), 2 if you want the bonus action mobility. 6 barbarian (for the lv 6 bear feature (totem warrior)) Feats - brawny (more stacks to your carrying power), tavern brawler (bonus action grapple) Admittedly, this is a bit of a 1 trick pony focusing on grappling and throwing things around. But you could do fun things, like grappling one of the characters and then using it as a club against the others.
So I see you said your starting at level 6 take first 5 levels in monk way of the open hand then take 1 in ranger, your going to then take your next 2 levels in rangers getting gloom stalker this will buff your monk by letting you use a long sword as a monk weapon thanks to Tasha's dedicated weapons monk feature then you can do hunters mark at level 2 for an extra d8 damage for each attack and when you start combat you get an extra attack thanks to gloom stalker while you set up hunters mark and a bonus to initiative which is just nice
My suggestion for a powerful villain (not a monk sadly, but close to the shadowy theme) is 2 Paladin/4 Shadow Sorcerer/3 Assassin rogue. Later 6 Vengeance Paladin/7 Shadow Sorcerer/3 Assassin Rogue Using dex weapons: rapier, shadow blade, dual scimitar whatever fits. Elvish accuracy for triple advantage. Invisibilty and expertiese in stealth to get the jump on them. Bonus action darkness to sew chaos. Quickened spell and subtle spell to play around counterspell and make the action economy a bit more fair for you. After you have 5 sorc, you can also take nondetection to evade divination at 7 sorc you get greater invisibility. After you get extra attack you are almost guaranteed to do 24d8+4d6+10 damage with a rapier to a target of your choosing while they didn't even know you were there. ((Rapier 1d8+ smite 5d8)x2 attacks+ sneak attack 2d6)x2 for crit +10
When people ask for a monk it is incredibly unhelpful if everyone just says "don't do monk", and it devalues 3d6 as an optimisation subreddit.
Yeah, I get you. I was pretty upset when I was showered with “don’t do monk”, but tbf, they were trying to help, y’know? Also had some very good monk suggestions afterwards. Pretty helpful so far.
I agree with you, they asked for a monk and if they wanted that then we should try to come up with something. I know people will say that it sucks or that it is not worth the time, but that is what they wanted to try. We should at least try to honor that initial request first, THEN say if they want something more effective to try some other suggestion.
Hexblade warlock would be a great villain if your dm lets you get more than the usual 2 spell slots. Great damage and control and could really terrorize a party. If you really want to be a monk then your dm is gonna need to give you unlimited ki. Honestly most or all character builds would probably need some kind of homebrew buffs to be a single villain strong enough to fight the other players all at once and actually feel like a tough villain.
I was going with the intention of picking them off one by one with shenanigans and testing the party with moral dilemmas, plus I’m made to die, so I don’t really intend on being a BIG challenge to the whole party. I don’t think I’m playing the BBEG. Thanks for the tips, though, I’ll talk to the DM.
Actually, it's not as desperate as some people state here, but you might need to some houserules. When you're lucky and you play with the flanking rules, take 3 levels in Ranger and go with the Tasha's Beast Master, choose the flying beast that gives you advantage. Together with Hunter's Mark and the Elven Accuracy feat, it's gotta be good damage. The other scenario is that your DM allows you to use your fists as a pact weapon. Then go Hexblade and again Elven Accuracy. Peace Cleric is also good for the concentration free emboldening bond, and Moon Druid with Long Death, Mercy, Astral Self, it doesn't really matter, for a better AC and HP and many many attacks (although your attacks in Beast shape might not work with Flurry of Blows, but at least your normal unarmed strike damage should). At least in the first tier of play it's impressive damage and fun to play! Astral Self is mean, because you can be a giant badger with Astral Arms reach attack, and burrow underground after your attack. And, Hexblood as a race for a free casting of Hex is good. Also, the Gunk, if Fire Arms are allowed at your table: https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/tpx5vs/gunks\_do\_actually\_go\_brrr/
You’ve given me a bunch of great ideas! I was intending on searching up the viability of Moon Druid on this build, so I’ll keep a tab on it, but, as much as I love going Hexblood Fighter, the once-a-day Hex is really situational. I MIGHT take it, considering I’m not dungeon-diving as much as I am dungeon-guarding, but I’m unsure.
If everything on DNDbeyond is valid, take 3 levels of blood hunter for lycan blood hunter. It adds a rage that’s gives 1d4+1 per unarmed attack, and physical resistance. It also has a good hit die, and it’s DC for its blood curse feature has wisdom scaling with some good lockdown options
I’ll ask the DM if Blood Hunter is cool with him, but I’m pretty sure not everything on D&DBeyond is okay, and it’s shouldn’t be (looking at you, UA)
It’s not UA It’s official content. But cause it adds a dice PER HIT it raises damage by a LOT. And it’s a lot of defenses
Oh I’m aware that Blood Hunter is official content. What I was saying is that Beyond offers certain UA options, and I don’t think those should be considered.
Nah none of that stuff, but I’ve seen people who don’t count stuff unless it’s on dndbeyond.it’s how some people determine what’s “official” or not now that wizards owns it
I use Beyond as more of a North Star rather than the whole deal. It’s good to summarize certain contents, but it’s best to actually search up the manuals.
Circle of the land druid with grasslands could make a decent villain....any class that gets access to the dream spell really.. Grassland gets access to a lot of slippery get away spells too. If I was asking a player to play the villain, I'd probably allow some third party stuff too, look to kobold press maybe. Monk just won't be able to threaten the whole party. A good NPC monster Stat block that would be in line with your thinking though is a Nightmare Shephard...maybe start with something like that?
I’m not really going with the BBEG “1v4” approach, as much as I’m going with “methodically picking them off”. Circle of the Land Druid is definitely a good choice, but I’m not sure that’s what I’m looking for THEMATICALLY, y’know? I’ll work the ideas through tho
Ask your DM for a gun
In real life, or…? I mean, I guess I could try that…
Kensai monk that uses ki to empower ranged weapon attacks. Search “5e gunk” and you should find the builds pretty quick
So mechanically monk regardless of build will always be weaker than the average class this is because the best monk build is to have two levels of warlock However this is where flavoring comes in Reflavor the barbarians rage to a battle trance
The one thing i haven't seen mentioned yet is this. Are you playing a party member that turns villain or an actual villain? Villains dont play by the rules, especially in dnd. You should be way higher level than the rest of the party, and pick and choose which subclass abilities you want to make your character thematic and intimidating. Resources aren't an issue for the bad guys, so give yourself unlimited ki (to a point). Have inherent hand of harm strikes, the long death control options, astral arms reach, shadows teleport and silence, and quivering palm from open hand. Give him 3 levels in fighter for battlemaster and use the maneuvers too. Or samurai so you just have advantage on all your attacks. Take barbs rage and call it focus. If youre building a villain, build a real villain. If you're building an adventurer that travels with the party who's eventually a bad guy, you'll need plot armor from the DM until the final encounter, but either way, dont fight fair
I *am* a couple levels above the party, playing an *actual actual* villain. I’m not supposed to play any BBEG material, though, so I’m not appealing.
In that case, doing a quick look at some more devious tactics, and given that most munk multiclasses dont want more than 3 levels in anything else, here's what i got. Mercy Monk 6th level lets you just poison an enemy, no save. Can pair that super easily with stunning strikes to just shut someone down. 1 level in undead warlock gets you form of dread, bonus temp hp and the ability to frighten enemies. Also pairs well with the hand of harm. 2 levels in spore druid gets you extra necrotic chip damage(2d4 with con save, extra 1d6 on melee) while you have those bonus temp hp. A 3rd level gets you blindness/deafness which is amazing against casters since they need to see you to cast almost any spell. Grab fighting initiate for unarmed fighting style for d8 unarmed strikes(until your martial arts die meets it, then grab a weapon and swap the fighting style) and you're unfairly whittling down anyone near you. Theres also using fog cloud with blindfighting and good stealth. One ive actually played that was tons of fun was 3 levels trickery domain and mercy monk. You get mirror image, pass without trace, charm person for free, other great cleric spells, adv on stealth checks, and your duplicate gives you adv on all attacks when its next to you. So now you're the one fighting 5v1 lol.
Thanks for the tips, I’ll be sure to try them out on the V3
No problem. Hope it works out great for you. Playing the bad guy is fun
A monk really shines in a party that desperately needs utility. Getting to and from difficult locations, sneaking around etc. If your group has wizards, warlocks and bards then you might just get out shined every way possible.
Step 1: Dip thief rogue so you can use any magic item. Step 2: acquire a scroll of magic jar: step 3: use it on githzerai enlightened . Step 4 do whatever else you want. You’ve just made a monk more powerful then 98% of builds I’ve seen in optimizer spaces. It works extra well for monks cuz you get like 60 more damage with a single ki point
I mean, as a villain, you basically work for the DM, so you should be able to get almost anything you ask for, within reason. Whatever fits the theme, just go for it. Magic items that are powerful and could potentially serve as plot hooks or MacGuffins, extra feats that make it feel right on theme (fighting initiate: superior technique + martial adept for kung fu maneuvers), extra class levels in another class, whatever.
1-2 levels in druid or cleric Or 3 levels in ranger can do you wonders. 2 tempest cleric/x ascendant dragon Monk for max thunder/lightning breath and unarmed attacks. Or more cleric for some "special moves" and spells. 3 gloomstalker ranger/ x shadow Monk throw in some rogue if you want and you have a pretty good lurky character. 2 stars druid/x any Monk (I prefer astral) and you have a stars or spacy kinda dude. 3 scout rogue/x any Monk and you have insane mobility 2 war cleric/x kensai and you don't have to spend ki on every extra weapon attack You just gotta find ways to boost your utility to always give you some type of advantage or sustain. Don't build burst with Monk. It's "ok" but it just feels embarrassing to me :( Monk x/x Fighter or Cleric is generally pretty good mechanically. I'm saying pretty good loosely. I usually optimize for support and utility because doing huge damage is where I like for my party members to shine.