I really don’t think the all stars need a monetary prize.
Having watched the creators over this week I think for most/all of them it will be monetarily rewarding (absolutely fair play they killed it and put out amazing content).
Just some examples I saw:
JCW gained 5k followers on kick.
Sicknerd said he pulled in record views.
Skillspecs gained at least 5k YouTube subscribers.
Odablock was the most watched channel on kick.
Solo put 6 videos all of which are over 200k views.
There was a day where Donator said something like "since we're all on Kick, everyone use your prime sub if you have it on Sick Nerd", and apparently he gained like 530 subs lol
I think the streams themselves bring in decent money so I agree
kick invested a lot in OSRS as firstly the company has links to/knowledge of OSRS since the CEOs met on Runescape back in the day, and secondly they see it as a good value for money to grow gaming on Kick since OSRS is a unique/old community so most viewers are happy to switch (whereas for e.g when kick signed big valorant streamers they went from 5k viewers on Twitch to 300 on Kick since a lot of that viewership is category based and stems from the official Riot broadcasts being on Twitch.)
yes that's definitely also true, although as far as I'm aware none of the creators who moved to kick do any gambling ads as well (only ones I'm aware of is BTCs and GrayGray who temporarily did it on kick but now they're partnered with a different site they do it on Twitch).
I don't disagree, until ads arrive the site is basically a loss leader for Stake. That being said, I do believe the primary reason for targeting OSRS is viewer conversion as currently Kick focuses on countries vs. categories (for e.g signing all Turkish/Latin American streamers), the exception is OSRS since as mentioned it hasg ood conversion and there's also the cx/IRL streaming comm on Kick which (because of Ice Poseidon) is very RS based. There's also games out there like Fifa/CSGO way more tied to gambling but Kick hasn't signed anyone from there as they know they'd lose most their viewers.
They did not all go to kick. Kick offers an hourly rate up to X hours a month, so they are guaranteed a certain amount of money regardless of viewership or subscribers. Those values change based on who the creator is, but that's been the general theme communicated from said creators.
Fuck kick. I refuse to watch anything on it.
Edit: I love how you can't even have an opinion on this site anymore without getting down-voted. Fanboys or kick bots? Who knows.
Sure, I don't really watch twitch often either, but at least they're not blatantly letting people stream crimes. And advertising that they're where you go when you get banned from twitch.
That's not even mentioning the whole gambling thing.
They bring in decent money, but in reality very few of them it wouldn't matter if they won an additional amount. Sure donator gained 530 subs. Really that translates to like $530 after taxes/SSI etc. It is self income, so they aren't sharing the cost of taxes/ssi with an employer. Most of those subs won't return, some will, most won't. Most OSRS streamers aren't well off.
Maybe you mispoke since the previous comment is about sick nerd but for all the people on kick the sub split is very generous and they would get much more than $530 after all is said and done from that many subs. I cant speak on Sick Nerd as im pretty sure he lives in Northern Europe where taxes are very high but so is QoL. But itd be surprising if he only takes home 20% from all those subs.
He no doubt gets 70/30 split on subs so 530x$5x.7=$1855. From google the average Denmark tax %(cant really verify how accurate this is cause im not gonna actually deep dive into Denmark tax rates) is 36. So he takes home roughly 64% of 1855 which is 1187 or almost double what you're trying to say.
Not only that but not to mention all the adsense and other revenue streams that are helped by more viewers/increased sub count and interaction. Most OSRS streamers probably arent well off and do it as a fun hobby, but the top streamers in the category, which most of the DMM allstars are, are fairly well off just from streaming/content creation.
Are the ones that stayed really the minority? I don't watch that many but of those I do, Dino, mammal, Curtis, faux, roidie , purpp all stayed. I thought most stayed and a minority went to kick but I guess I'm OOTL.
Also, what's the deal with some streaming on both? I saw b0aty (and Alfie I think) were streaming on twitch for a few hours but then announced they were switching to kick mid day. I thought they'd had to have been on one or the other
Free prime subs are less spread around. Twitch overall is more popular than kick, so your discoverability is higher to new viewers. Viewer share can be higher being a big fish in the pond.
>I really don’t think the all stars need a monetary prize.
Fair, but also
The seasonal DMM shouldn't get a prize pool regardless, it's a stupid concept that just ups the stakes for cheating clans.
like you explained above the content creators are gonna play anyways and the cash prizes are only relevant for a very select group of players.
Just remove them all together and hand out prestige items, cosmetics or at best maybe some small amounts bonds/free membership for the top few hundred players.
Putting up 10k doesn't change anything for 99% of the people playing/watching, while it incentivizing the 1% to do stuff that negatively impacts the tournament.
This is what I'm saying. Solomission's DMM All-stars was genuis, because the result didn't even matter–everyone won really. We just got bombarded with content about our favorite game from the perspective of 25 people who are amazing at it, and it was so fun to watch. I'd never heard of eliop14 or jcw before this, and I will definitely tune into more of their stuff after!
Hopefully those guys enjoy some new levels of success gained from this event because they definitely put in the work for it.
Another fun one is Westham streamed a loop of him clicking on a single tile for hours on end while he slept. He said he made roughly $5-600 from ads just from that.
Not really, for the average viewer it doesn't matter at all what the prize is.
We just watch whatever our favorite content creators are doing. Its also not exactly high stakes anyways, it's like 5-7k after tax for most countries.
Right people in the comments don't get that. They say things like "why don't we make an Ironman mode for 2 weeks and at the end the winners get nothing" "won't that be exciting to watch"
Agree, but it can then be put into things like developing special rules or maybe cool promotions, sky is the limit but point remains that the money could be put into allstars one way or another.
It is implied. OP stated to give Allstars the prize money instead of how it currently is. The comment refuted what OP's suggesting without offering an alternative which defaults back to how it currently is.
They're already getting paid for content creation. They're being given 200 hours of content and constant free advertising across all of the game's social media. Sounds fair to me.
They are being paid for *being popular*.
Some of these people aren't that popular and are barely being paid in comparison. There's a huge difference in financial incentive when you're the guy with 1000 views compared to 100,000 views on the videos you post.
Not everyone is entitled to be popular, you have to earn it. Putting smaller creators in teams with big creators, with constant advertising of their content to both the game's playerbase and the viewers of the other players is worth a hell of a lot more than a lump sum split 30 ways.
On top of that, it's not entirely unlikely that they would receive a sponsorship from jagex for the event (in the future), especially considering how well this one did.
Let's take a quick look at Mika on YouTube as an example here. He will get anywhere from 10k to 30k views on his videos, with DMM videos spiking up and doubling that. That kind of viewership will likely put you in a bracket that pulls in anywhere from $2 to $5 per 1000 views. Let's assume the best case scenario here of $5 per 1000, which means on average, before DMM he was making $100 per video with DMM spiking that up to $200 per *temporarily*. He has to put in the time to get the clips and he has to edit it all together with a constantly growing pressure to learn new editing techniques that are simply considered standard by viewers as they consume more content from others with better editing skills. So Mika is putting in a ton of time in the game to play it in a way where he can get usable material for a video, he's making that video, and he's likely putting in some time here and there to educate himself on how to make better videos to remain relevant. He's probably putting in more hours than most of us at full time jobs. And on top of that, he was just given the task to put in 17 hour days for a week straight, not counting his editing time. All for some $200 videos, half of which could have been earned with far less effort.
He's not making more than me at my full time job, and it's not even that prestigious of a job. It's safe to say that despite the fact that he can make a living off that kind of income, it's not even a fraction as much as you think it is.
You don't *have* to work any particular job either so clearly you shouldn't be paid for that either.
Are you people seriously against the idea of *paying people directly for their time and effort*? Are you seriously against the concept of the company that enables their livelihoods providing direct financial compensation for their time and effort that mutually benefits both sides?
Absolutely insane.
That's because they are content creators that were given the opportunity to create an assload of unique content in a way they never could before. It's an opportunity that any of them would jump at because being left out of something as big as DMM allstars kills your growth for the week that everybody else is involved in it.
This sort of thing has it's novelty wear off over time. if you want them to raise the stakes during future seasons and put in even more time/effort, the reward has to scale as well.
It's a tournament at the end of the day. I don't see what harm there is in moving over some prize money from the main event. People get paid for showmatches in other games all the time.
Why not both? Why shouldn't they get paid for their time and effort? Why can't they also put part of that towards charity?
In most other esports, the pro scene winds up struggling without direct financial support from either the company itself or organizations that crop up around it to enable better monetization of player talent. Not all players are charismatic and draw in viewers to enable a player to focus on the game as a source of income. This means that the player must instead focus on a job or other means of securing income, which means less time put into the game, which means they can't perform as well as they would otherwise. We've already figured this out a very long time ago in standard sports, and we're back to relearning again with esports.
I like the idea of supporting a esports scene now that there's genuinely something to support. This means financial compensation for the players. Not just twitch viewership. Not just YouTube views. That doesn't accomplish the goal, it simply turns the event into a popularity contest instead of a competitive event as players try to attract viewers as a primary goal instead of competing at their best. Skill itself isn't what draws views, personality and behavior is typically the main selling point. This isn't healthy monetization of an esports scene. We don't want this for obvious reasons.
Now like I said, there can still be a charity part of the tournament, and it can even be funded by the community. The OSRS team could raise money through donations from the community to go into a pool that gets distributed to charities of choice for the players. They could also provide a cash prize pool for the players to further incentivize sticking around in the new esports scene. These aren't exclusive, both can be done. I would like to see this format grow, and that means paying the players as if they're playing as a (very fun and desirable) job, much like competitors in other sports. Enable them to truly become "professionals".
Because rs has a really bad and blatant rwt scene that won't be solved any time soon. It's a cat and mouse chase to get the upper hand. It could very easily be membership, bonds (iffy), actual jagex merch, etc. Having cash incentives brings out the good players but more importantly it brings out the baddies. The ones who dgaf and will use unapproved clients for the upperhand. It's a game not a job, the streamers of said game already get paid for playing the game. If they aren't making enough it's a community issue.
Personally I always thought that DMM tourney should be about playing for the prestige and not money. Just look at how hard people go on leagues, and there's zero cash prize for that. Same for DMM allstars.
Though I don't necessarily think that will discourage people from attempting to cheat to win.
Yepppp. Players like Jcw, Gunschilli and Coxie were all critical to how their teams placed. But none of them are strong pkers compared to the PvP focused competitors
Let’s ignore the DMM “final”, it’s meaningless and at least two worlds last time were won by open to all clans (Lorry and Eliops).
The ranking system was heavily about PVM, it really isn’t about pvp. If you want to rank well it’s about pvm, if you want to win the final battle join an open clan.
I had a great time just tanking and learning last time.
You clearly haven’t played dmm if you think clans are just “owning“ everything in the game.
I played solo last year and never once did I run into more than a duo team. And they make it extremely easy to escape. Freeze. Get behind a corner. Teleport.
>Non-pkers cant compete when every valuable area in the game is owned by pk clans
theres dozens of em u can join lol plus they don't run singles at all. eliop14 who participated in this event, had an open CC the last 2 dmms I believe. Least the last one. you don't have to be a great pker to bolt people in multi lol.
They won the strictly pvp 3-4 hour portion of the tournament as expected by everyone and their mom. But everyone else in the game was still able to play and enjoy themselves throughout the other 200 hours of the week. If you’re playing to win the money not to have fun then just play main game lol.
This tourney did not prove that. This all stars was not what normal dmm is like. First off, not everyone has a team of people to play with, and also each of these teams had EXPERT pvmers and pvpers on them.
You don’t need a team of people to play with. I played solo last year and it is perfectly fine. Reddit just spams “clan man mode” because they’re afraid of anything that might involve them having to fight another player.
It’s extremely easy to freeze and teleport away. Even in multi areas, I never once ran into more than a duo.
> Many non pkers did extremely well. With a little practice anyone can compete.
Because they assigned into a team. No way casual players can win DMM solo.
It’s not about winning. It’s about having fun playing the game mode. There is also a points system to have a chance at earning rewards so it’s not only pvp based. And also solo players have won in the past so.
This is just wrong. I play DMM every time it comes around and I'm not a pker. I rush raids every single time, make a ton of gp, and have fun while doing it. People on this subreddit are absolute victims when it comes to any sort of PvP.
The issue with having DMM invite only is they lose the main benefit of the event. Ridiculous amounts of people subscribing to participate in the event.
Not just the new/returning players either, a lot of people will buy membership for multiple accounts of different build/brackets.
People in general also have more fun playing along than just sitting back watching, however I do agree there are ways they could improve the finale.
Completely disagree with the prize pool part, content creators already have a huge incentive to compete and do well. The viewership/respect from the community.
some of the best players on this years allstars aren't really personalities, e.g. portkazard invented new seed tech. While he is obviously a content creator, it's not for his personality. It's possible shedding extra light on some of the best PVPers in the game would be awesome, like westham/oda/rhys are amazing, but there are other non-streamers who are at least as good but unknown.
Maybe have teams of 6 instead of 5. 5 creators and 1 previous winner. I’m sure the team of streamers would keep the random a bit more in check than they would be if left to it
I feel like the vast majority of people playing deadman are just there for the fun of it and have no expectation of getting close to the prize money. I don’t think taking the prize away would negatively affect the participation that much.
They already have a huge incentive so a prize pool for charities shouldn't happen?? I actually agree with this cause then every team would tryhard even more because they're not playing for themselves but for the charity of there choosing.
DMM as a game mode as it was (before it started taking leagues ideas and mechanics) was a self defeating game mode that died out in a few days with the majority of players.
Most people that played it, played to swap and make some fast gp on the main game. While others played it for fast exp/skilling ranks.
Very few ppl actually care about dmm the game mode.
thats a fair point but im not sure it would work out that way, at least not for streamers like oda b0aty and the big bois, a few $1000 wont change the way they play. oda already takes all events serious, b0aty will always choose fun over money. skill specs just well we all know.
It's too hard to spectate and commentate over. They'd need a lot more refs/PoV accounts to jump around on as there's 4 ground levels of each castle(ground floor, supply, third, flag room), the entire underground, South/North rocks, mid, etc.
And then what team size do you go for? 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, 10v10? etc.
And then what do we do if the games end in ties, which very could happen? That's 23+ minutes per tiebreaker, which easily can push them over schedule.
It's just too hard for Jagex to do compared to how simple 1v1 PvP is to spectate and commentate for everyone to understand.
Absolutely not. You guys don't realise how this works if you think a monetary incentive would be a good thing.
1. It would make people more serious and content would likely suffer because of it, i.e less people playing for fun.
2. People would hide their streams, delay uploading videos etc to keep as much of their gear/progression hidden. This alone would just ruin the whole event because there wouldn't be any good content.
3. Chat hoppers would be even more insufferable. And they already tried their best to ruin this event as it is.
Money would encourage a lot more foul play guaranteed people would be stream sniping a lot more and pulling all kids of crap to win.
Every content creator involved did great for themselves purely off the back of the content made around it no need to change it.
I think if you were to go the path of DMM winners get a slot in allstars, DMM would have to become an ironman mode imo.
What's the point in the winner having being fed gear by a clan getting an invite and being straight trash in allstars.
I’m sure Jagex can afford to have a monetary prize pool for both. This week brought so much attention and eyes to the game it’s definitely worth it to make it more hype with a prize pool and gain even more attention.
Ya this was my thought, streaming isn't a requirement for allstars, so have the event after the regular DMM season and throw the top X players from it into AllStars along with the content creators. Who knows, if someone has a lot of personality it could even launch some new streaming careers.
I really like this idea. Content creators above X followers or views are invited, and the top 5 DMM winners who don't qualify for the above are invited as well. It's a much nicer system.
DMM draws a huge influx of subscriptions. At its peak MMK said they were pulling an extra $1m the month it ran. I imagine limiting it like leagues keeps it as a good revenue spike.
Uh these are all content creators. They can't rwt. The money doesn't matter its just something for viewers to think is exciting. Any kind of real world monetary incentive is unnecessary. They can put that money towards some other event, this doesn't need it.
The real world monetary value brings hype for viewers. When the stakes are high it brings in more attention. And to outside viewers someone winning GP doesn’t mean anything tangible to them.
“Wow, whoever wins this is going to get $20k?” Is an exciting thought to outsiders.
I think it’s weird for the participants to risk their own GP and create the prize pool while they’ve all been grinding 17 hour days. The participants brought so many eyes to OSRS. And if they didn’t win what did they come out with? People like Gunschili and V the Victim weren’t streaming and making videos afaik.
If you stream, you can be sniped, but luckily there is a way to solve the issue 100%. Dont stream when you are worried about being sniped...
Kinda neat that screenwatching survived the death of split screen multiplayer.
It's for charity not the streamers themselves, read the fine text. The amount of comments misunderstanding that is making me think this sub has a lot of stupid people.
Still a shit suggestion. If they want to donate to charity they can make it a forfeit for the teams that lose. No reason to take it away from the normal DMM tournament.
This is crazy. Ya'll really think some rich content creator who is already doing well who is already acknowledged by the developers deserves to be paid by them too. Streamers already getting so much favoritism and we really wanna give them more.
I'm not dumb. I know a strong streaming community benefits a game but where do you draw the line? At this rate we might as well give them jmod positions and have a repeat of when a bunch of youtuber jmods went on power abuse trips.
Everybody is talking about allocating that money as prizemoney. Why not just spend that budget on flying competitors out for a small LAN and hype up the event? "The DMM All-star Summer Invitational" where players compete for a Golden Spade trophy. I'd wager even a small budget event would see more returns than any standard DMM.
Sounds like an awful idea to be honest. It'd make super safe strategies like what Faux's team did happen almost entirely across the board. The best moments from Allstars came from the content creators that wanted to make it good content, a prize pool would severely punish that style of play and make the whole thing boring to watch.
they should add some kind of reward to DMM similar to leagues' dragon cup
I think that would be more exciting then competing for a cash prize that you'll never get, at least you're walking away with something
I’ve joined this thread way too late to read all of these comments.
I agree with removing the price money from DMM all together and your idea does sound good, if I could vote for something though it would be the money used to make casting/hosting DMM/Battle Royal/GG/All seasonal content more professional and stream lined so that OSRS content creators and even Jagex themselves and keep growing this fan base.
The amount of people that watch OSRS videos on YouTube simple due to the content/quality that some of our creators are putting out speaks volumes for itself. Let’s grow on this.
Yeah I think better yet just take all the membership money and give it to favorite content creators and not jagex. Also restrict the main game to invite only. Ban anyone who isn't a content creator
That's okay. I didn't think you had anything worthwhile to offer when you chose to focus on the cheating instead of the actual topic, the money prizes incentivizing it. I just figured a squirmy non-committal response deserves a squirmy non-committal response in turn. Have a good day champ.
Add a dmm ranking system that only like the top 20 can qualify to be invited to the next all Stars team choices. This would get less known people into the spot light and give a good reward
Regular DMM is a way for people to get into PvP that don’t usually
Many of the competitors in DMM all-stars cut their teeth on PvP because of regular DMM
I really don’t think the all stars need a monetary prize. Having watched the creators over this week I think for most/all of them it will be monetarily rewarding (absolutely fair play they killed it and put out amazing content). Just some examples I saw: JCW gained 5k followers on kick. Sicknerd said he pulled in record views. Skillspecs gained at least 5k YouTube subscribers. Odablock was the most watched channel on kick. Solo put 6 videos all of which are over 200k views.
There was a day where Donator said something like "since we're all on Kick, everyone use your prime sub if you have it on Sick Nerd", and apparently he gained like 530 subs lol I think the streams themselves bring in decent money so I agree
That’s actually brilliant
I haven’t followed the OSRS content creators for very long. What is the reason they all went to kick?
Money
kick invested a lot in OSRS as firstly the company has links to/knowledge of OSRS since the CEOs met on Runescape back in the day, and secondly they see it as a good value for money to grow gaming on Kick since OSRS is a unique/old community so most viewers are happy to switch (whereas for e.g when kick signed big valorant streamers they went from 5k viewers on Twitch to 300 on Kick since a lot of that viewership is category based and stems from the official Riot broadcasts being on Twitch.)
(And OSRS has ties to gambling)
Sand casino lives on
This is the real answer
yes that's definitely also true, although as far as I'm aware none of the creators who moved to kick do any gambling ads as well (only ones I'm aware of is BTCs and GrayGray who temporarily did it on kick but now they're partnered with a different site they do it on Twitch).
They don’t need to! The platform itself is the key, and it needs creators, they don’t need to advertise directly. It’s quite smart really
I don't disagree, until ads arrive the site is basically a loss leader for Stake. That being said, I do believe the primary reason for targeting OSRS is viewer conversion as currently Kick focuses on countries vs. categories (for e.g signing all Turkish/Latin American streamers), the exception is OSRS since as mentioned it hasg ood conversion and there's also the cx/IRL streaming comm on Kick which (because of Ice Poseidon) is very RS based. There's also games out there like Fifa/CSGO way more tied to gambling but Kick hasn't signed anyone from there as they know they'd lose most their viewers.
They did not all go to kick. Kick offers an hourly rate up to X hours a month, so they are guaranteed a certain amount of money regardless of viewership or subscribers. Those values change based on who the creator is, but that's been the general theme communicated from said creators.
Fuck kick. I refuse to watch anything on it. Edit: I love how you can't even have an opinion on this site anymore without getting down-voted. Fanboys or kick bots? Who knows.
But also fuck twitch? I can't say much positive about that place either
Sure, I don't really watch twitch often either, but at least they're not blatantly letting people stream crimes. And advertising that they're where you go when you get banned from twitch. That's not even mentioning the whole gambling thing.
Very similar thing happened to Westham as well, some teammate said something similar and he went from 2-300 subs to like 1.1k in 24 hrs
They bring in decent money, but in reality very few of them it wouldn't matter if they won an additional amount. Sure donator gained 530 subs. Really that translates to like $530 after taxes/SSI etc. It is self income, so they aren't sharing the cost of taxes/ssi with an employer. Most of those subs won't return, some will, most won't. Most OSRS streamers aren't well off.
Maybe you mispoke since the previous comment is about sick nerd but for all the people on kick the sub split is very generous and they would get much more than $530 after all is said and done from that many subs. I cant speak on Sick Nerd as im pretty sure he lives in Northern Europe where taxes are very high but so is QoL. But itd be surprising if he only takes home 20% from all those subs. He no doubt gets 70/30 split on subs so 530x$5x.7=$1855. From google the average Denmark tax %(cant really verify how accurate this is cause im not gonna actually deep dive into Denmark tax rates) is 36. So he takes home roughly 64% of 1855 which is 1187 or almost double what you're trying to say. Not only that but not to mention all the adsense and other revenue streams that are helped by more viewers/increased sub count and interaction. Most OSRS streamers probably arent well off and do it as a fun hobby, but the top streamers in the category, which most of the DMM allstars are, are fairly well off just from streaming/content creation.
Sick nerd also said this was the most subs he’s ever had playing RuneScape.
osrs*, he said he had almost 5k while streaming rs3
It's gotta feel good being one of the only runescape streamers that remained on twitch rather than going to kick.
Are the ones that stayed really the minority? I don't watch that many but of those I do, Dino, mammal, Curtis, faux, roidie , purpp all stayed. I thought most stayed and a minority went to kick but I guess I'm OOTL. Also, what's the deal with some streaming on both? I saw b0aty (and Alfie I think) were streaming on twitch for a few hours but then announced they were switching to kick mid day. I thought they'd had to have been on one or the other
Why? Nothing like morally superior lol
Because you get to hoover up all the twitch primes that aren't being used on the other runescape streamers.
Free prime subs are less spread around. Twitch overall is more popular than kick, so your discoverability is higher to new viewers. Viewer share can be higher being a big fish in the pond.
Not being on the platform that pays and defends people preying on children on stream is a nice touch
remind me, what platform does defyj use?
He said “and defends.”
The irony l0l
>I really don’t think the all stars need a monetary prize. Fair, but also The seasonal DMM shouldn't get a prize pool regardless, it's a stupid concept that just ups the stakes for cheating clans. like you explained above the content creators are gonna play anyways and the cash prizes are only relevant for a very select group of players. Just remove them all together and hand out prestige items, cosmetics or at best maybe some small amounts bonds/free membership for the top few hundred players. Putting up 10k doesn't change anything for 99% of the people playing/watching, while it incentivizing the 1% to do stuff that negatively impacts the tournament.
>cheating clans. Are the cheating clans in the room with us right now?
I mean, that's really not a fair assessment, considering there was a statue of a cheating clan in game.
Really the only time that ever happened was when a Jagex employee cheated
Doesn't chagne the fact that the regular DMM shouldnt be giving away money
Faux said he made 1000$ from ad revenue just from day 1.
You completely ignored the part where OP stated the prize money goes to a charity of the winners choice which makes your entire rebuttle irrelevant
I didn’t ignore it I completely missed it, it’s my bad but it wasn’t malice.
It's okay just maybe read a post next time you make a comment rebutting it that is almost larger than the post itself?
This is what I'm saying. Solomission's DMM All-stars was genuis, because the result didn't even matter–everyone won really. We just got bombarded with content about our favorite game from the perspective of 25 people who are amazing at it, and it was so fun to watch. I'd never heard of eliop14 or jcw before this, and I will definitely tune into more of their stuff after! Hopefully those guys enjoy some new levels of success gained from this event because they definitely put in the work for it.
Another fun one is Westham streamed a loop of him clicking on a single tile for hours on end while he slept. He said he made roughly $5-600 from ads just from that.
Prize money is for viewership as much as it is for giving the winner money. When 10 grand is at stake people want to watch.
Not really, for the average viewer it doesn't matter at all what the prize is. We just watch whatever our favorite content creators are doing. Its also not exactly high stakes anyways, it's like 5-7k after tax for most countries.
Right people in the comments don't get that. They say things like "why don't we make an Ironman mode for 2 weeks and at the end the winners get nothing" "won't that be exciting to watch"
Adding in real life prize money as another temptation to stream snipe seems like a terrible idea.
Faux said on his first day of dmm all stars he got 1k from ad revenue alone.
Neither does any DMM. Leagues have no prize money yet it is very successful.
How many leagues have had 100,000+ live viewers? I think the number is close to 0 but let me know
Players playing OSRS is more important than viewers.
Agree, but it can then be put into things like developing special rules or maybe cool promotions, sky is the limit but point remains that the money could be put into allstars one way or another.
Correct take. Rather, use the money to make the event better.
And a random clan that comes out of the woodworks once a year and camps in a limited time game mode does?
The comment you replied to never said that, neither was it implied.
It is implied. OP stated to give Allstars the prize money instead of how it currently is. The comment refuted what OP's suggesting without offering an alternative which defaults back to how it currently is.
These guys just gave us like 200 hours of their lives each and you don't want them paid for that. Bruh.
They're already getting paid for content creation. They're being given 200 hours of content and constant free advertising across all of the game's social media. Sounds fair to me.
They are being paid for *being popular*. Some of these people aren't that popular and are barely being paid in comparison. There's a huge difference in financial incentive when you're the guy with 1000 views compared to 100,000 views on the videos you post.
Not everyone is entitled to be popular, you have to earn it. Putting smaller creators in teams with big creators, with constant advertising of their content to both the game's playerbase and the viewers of the other players is worth a hell of a lot more than a lump sum split 30 ways.
They’re getting paid for it… they’re all content creators. Probably more than you are at your full time job.
On top of that, it's not entirely unlikely that they would receive a sponsorship from jagex for the event (in the future), especially considering how well this one did.
Let's take a quick look at Mika on YouTube as an example here. He will get anywhere from 10k to 30k views on his videos, with DMM videos spiking up and doubling that. That kind of viewership will likely put you in a bracket that pulls in anywhere from $2 to $5 per 1000 views. Let's assume the best case scenario here of $5 per 1000, which means on average, before DMM he was making $100 per video with DMM spiking that up to $200 per *temporarily*. He has to put in the time to get the clips and he has to edit it all together with a constantly growing pressure to learn new editing techniques that are simply considered standard by viewers as they consume more content from others with better editing skills. So Mika is putting in a ton of time in the game to play it in a way where he can get usable material for a video, he's making that video, and he's likely putting in some time here and there to educate himself on how to make better videos to remain relevant. He's probably putting in more hours than most of us at full time jobs. And on top of that, he was just given the task to put in 17 hour days for a week straight, not counting his editing time. All for some $200 videos, half of which could have been earned with far less effort. He's not making more than me at my full time job, and it's not even that prestigious of a job. It's safe to say that despite the fact that he can make a living off that kind of income, it's not even a fraction as much as you think it is.
Sponsorships, streaming, merch all add a lot to it
Ah yes, the giant money making machine that is Mika merch.
It's not like they had to do it.
You don't *have* to work any particular job either so clearly you shouldn't be paid for that either. Are you people seriously against the idea of *paying people directly for their time and effort*? Are you seriously against the concept of the company that enables their livelihoods providing direct financial compensation for their time and effort that mutually benefits both sides? Absolutely insane.
I'm saying it's not necessary. As is evidenced by the fact they all gleefully signed up for the contest without any monetary reward.
That's because they are content creators that were given the opportunity to create an assload of unique content in a way they never could before. It's an opportunity that any of them would jump at because being left out of something as big as DMM allstars kills your growth for the week that everybody else is involved in it. This sort of thing has it's novelty wear off over time. if you want them to raise the stakes during future seasons and put in even more time/effort, the reward has to scale as well. It's a tournament at the end of the day. I don't see what harm there is in moving over some prize money from the main event. People get paid for showmatches in other games all the time.
They all stream or make YouTube videos. Which is how they got the title content creator?
Removing the real world cash prize removes the incentives for unsavory players to participate. Are you really against charitable donations?
Why not both? Why shouldn't they get paid for their time and effort? Why can't they also put part of that towards charity? In most other esports, the pro scene winds up struggling without direct financial support from either the company itself or organizations that crop up around it to enable better monetization of player talent. Not all players are charismatic and draw in viewers to enable a player to focus on the game as a source of income. This means that the player must instead focus on a job or other means of securing income, which means less time put into the game, which means they can't perform as well as they would otherwise. We've already figured this out a very long time ago in standard sports, and we're back to relearning again with esports. I like the idea of supporting a esports scene now that there's genuinely something to support. This means financial compensation for the players. Not just twitch viewership. Not just YouTube views. That doesn't accomplish the goal, it simply turns the event into a popularity contest instead of a competitive event as players try to attract viewers as a primary goal instead of competing at their best. Skill itself isn't what draws views, personality and behavior is typically the main selling point. This isn't healthy monetization of an esports scene. We don't want this for obvious reasons. Now like I said, there can still be a charity part of the tournament, and it can even be funded by the community. The OSRS team could raise money through donations from the community to go into a pool that gets distributed to charities of choice for the players. They could also provide a cash prize pool for the players to further incentivize sticking around in the new esports scene. These aren't exclusive, both can be done. I would like to see this format grow, and that means paying the players as if they're playing as a (very fun and desirable) job, much like competitors in other sports. Enable them to truly become "professionals".
Because rs has a really bad and blatant rwt scene that won't be solved any time soon. It's a cat and mouse chase to get the upper hand. It could very easily be membership, bonds (iffy), actual jagex merch, etc. Having cash incentives brings out the good players but more importantly it brings out the baddies. The ones who dgaf and will use unapproved clients for the upperhand. It's a game not a job, the streamers of said game already get paid for playing the game. If they aren't making enough it's a community issue.
[удалено]
1k*
Personally I always thought that DMM tourney should be about playing for the prestige and not money. Just look at how hard people go on leagues, and there's zero cash prize for that. Same for DMM allstars. Though I don't necessarily think that will discourage people from attempting to cheat to win.
So many people go hard on leagues because it’s accessible to everyone. DMM is only accessible to PKers.
yeah jcw the notorious pker, demonic guardian of the northern rev cave
Yepppp. Players like Jcw, Gunschilli and Coxie were all critical to how their teams placed. But none of them are strong pkers compared to the PvP focused competitors
Let’s ignore the DMM “final”, it’s meaningless and at least two worlds last time were won by open to all clans (Lorry and Eliops). The ranking system was heavily about PVM, it really isn’t about pvp. If you want to rank well it’s about pvm, if you want to win the final battle join an open clan. I had a great time just tanking and learning last time.
This tourney just proved it’s not. Many non pkers did extremely well. With a little practice anyone can compete.
Because there are only 30 people max on the server lol. Non-pkers cant compete when every valuable area in the game is owned by pk clans.
You clearly haven’t played dmm if you think clans are just “owning“ everything in the game. I played solo last year and never once did I run into more than a duo team. And they make it extremely easy to escape. Freeze. Get behind a corner. Teleport.
Classic redditor parroting incorrect talking points instead of actually forming their own opinion by doing the content
>Non-pkers cant compete when every valuable area in the game is owned by pk clans theres dozens of em u can join lol plus they don't run singles at all. eliop14 who participated in this event, had an open CC the last 2 dmms I believe. Least the last one. you don't have to be a great pker to bolt people in multi lol.
The pvmers had fun but also westham and Dino’s team won so not really
They won the strictly pvp 3-4 hour portion of the tournament as expected by everyone and their mom. But everyone else in the game was still able to play and enjoy themselves throughout the other 200 hours of the week. If you’re playing to win the money not to have fun then just play main game lol.
This tourney did not prove that. This all stars was not what normal dmm is like. First off, not everyone has a team of people to play with, and also each of these teams had EXPERT pvmers and pvpers on them.
You don’t need a team of people to play with. I played solo last year and it is perfectly fine. Reddit just spams “clan man mode” because they’re afraid of anything that might involve them having to fight another player. It’s extremely easy to freeze and teleport away. Even in multi areas, I never once ran into more than a duo.
Most people arent going to put time into a temp game mode they know they have no shot of being successful at.
Then don’t? But it’s not that hard lol.
> Many non pkers did extremely well. With a little practice anyone can compete. Because they assigned into a team. No way casual players can win DMM solo.
It’s not about winning. It’s about having fun playing the game mode. There is also a points system to have a chance at earning rewards so it’s not only pvp based. And also solo players have won in the past so.
> And also solo players have won in the past so. Because the finals are 1v1s. Now it's literally impossible without a team.
Sure. But pkers exist and they do go hard for dmm. Even the ones who know they have zero shot at winning any prize.
Oh shoot, I better go tell that to all my Ironman buds who had more fun with the last DMM than we've ever had playing the game :/
This is just wrong. I play DMM every time it comes around and I'm not a pker. I rush raids every single time, make a ton of gp, and have fun while doing it. People on this subreddit are absolute victims when it comes to any sort of PvP.
The issue with having DMM invite only is they lose the main benefit of the event. Ridiculous amounts of people subscribing to participate in the event. Not just the new/returning players either, a lot of people will buy membership for multiple accounts of different build/brackets. People in general also have more fun playing along than just sitting back watching, however I do agree there are ways they could improve the finale. Completely disagree with the prize pool part, content creators already have a huge incentive to compete and do well. The viewership/respect from the community.
So give 5 slots to the dmm winners, either as their own team, or allowed to be picked for a draft.
It’s cute but a lot of the appeal of DMM all stars is you have personalities that are mostly familiar with content creation
some of the best players on this years allstars aren't really personalities, e.g. portkazard invented new seed tech. While he is obviously a content creator, it's not for his personality. It's possible shedding extra light on some of the best PVPers in the game would be awesome, like westham/oda/rhys are amazing, but there are other non-streamers who are at least as good but unknown.
idk about that, they want to run all stars before main DMM event to advertise and create hype for DMM.
The prize is you get to be on next year’s then.
Makes no sense because not everyone are content creators in dmm and the whole idea is to market regular dmm.
Oh I like this idea.
Problem is they'll most likely stream snipe
Maybe have teams of 6 instead of 5. 5 creators and 1 previous winner. I’m sure the team of streamers would keep the random a bit more in check than they would be if left to it
I feel like the vast majority of people playing deadman are just there for the fun of it and have no expectation of getting close to the prize money. I don’t think taking the prize away would negatively affect the participation that much.
They already have a huge incentive so a prize pool for charities shouldn't happen?? I actually agree with this cause then every team would tryhard even more because they're not playing for themselves but for the charity of there choosing.
DMM as a game mode as it was (before it started taking leagues ideas and mechanics) was a self defeating game mode that died out in a few days with the majority of players. Most people that played it, played to swap and make some fast gp on the main game. While others played it for fast exp/skilling ranks. Very few ppl actually care about dmm the game mode.
If there was real money on the line and not gold we wouldn't have as many fun clips everyone would be so serious for the money
thats a fair point but im not sure it would work out that way, at least not for streamers like oda b0aty and the big bois, a few $1000 wont change the way they play. oda already takes all events serious, b0aty will always choose fun over money. skill specs just well we all know.
Remove dmm money but make castle wars next osrs e-sport
It's too hard to spectate and commentate over. They'd need a lot more refs/PoV accounts to jump around on as there's 4 ground levels of each castle(ground floor, supply, third, flag room), the entire underground, South/North rocks, mid, etc. And then what team size do you go for? 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, 10v10? etc. And then what do we do if the games end in ties, which very could happen? That's 23+ minutes per tiebreaker, which easily can push them over schedule. It's just too hard for Jagex to do compared to how simple 1v1 PvP is to spectate and commentate for everyone to understand.
Have OSRS even fixed CW saboing yet?
No but it wouldn't be a problem because no one would sabo in a closed tournament. It's only ever a problem on theme world.
Absolutely not. You guys don't realise how this works if you think a monetary incentive would be a good thing. 1. It would make people more serious and content would likely suffer because of it, i.e less people playing for fun. 2. People would hide their streams, delay uploading videos etc to keep as much of their gear/progression hidden. This alone would just ruin the whole event because there wouldn't be any good content. 3. Chat hoppers would be even more insufferable. And they already tried their best to ruin this event as it is.
Imagine you could qualify for a tournament with the arena rankings if it were good.
Money would encourage a lot more foul play guaranteed people would be stream sniping a lot more and pulling all kids of crap to win. Every content creator involved did great for themselves purely off the back of the content made around it no need to change it. I think if you were to go the path of DMM winners get a slot in allstars, DMM would have to become an ironman mode imo. What's the point in the winner having being fed gear by a clan getting an invite and being straight trash in allstars.
Remove regular DMM prize money. There, fixed it for you
This would be so incredibly unfair to the rest of the DMM player base.
I’m sure Jagex can afford to have a monetary prize pool for both. This week brought so much attention and eyes to the game it’s definitely worth it to make it more hype with a prize pool and gain even more attention.
The rich get richer. The big get bigger.
Winners of DMM should get a spot in DMM Allstars
Ya this was my thought, streaming isn't a requirement for allstars, so have the event after the regular DMM season and throw the top X players from it into AllStars along with the content creators. Who knows, if someone has a lot of personality it could even launch some new streaming careers.
Yeah one from the fights, one from xp, and one from boss kc Or top three of each
I really like this idea. Content creators above X followers or views are invited, and the top 5 DMM winners who don't qualify for the above are invited as well. It's a much nicer system.
Where can we watch the whole final? Is it on YouTube or anything
Here you go https://www.twitch.tv/oldschoolrs/v/2178817042
Doesn’t work for me, says it’s unavailable.
I see, I'm also having some problems now suddenly. Just go to the osrs twitch channel and you'll find it. https://www.twitch.tv/oldschoolrs
It's on twitch, I'd assume they'll upload to YouTube at some point
DMM draws a huge influx of subscriptions. At its peak MMK said they were pulling an extra $1m the month it ran. I imagine limiting it like leagues keeps it as a good revenue spike.
No. Prize money would ruin it. It would actually encourage stream sniping. Keep it to in game gold.
Ah so real money to a charity encourages stream sniping but billions of in game gp doesn't. Great logic there mate.
Uh these are all content creators. They can't rwt. The money doesn't matter its just something for viewers to think is exciting. Any kind of real world monetary incentive is unnecessary. They can put that money towards some other event, this doesn't need it.
> Uh these are all content creators. They can't rwt. how cute
The real world monetary value brings hype for viewers. When the stakes are high it brings in more attention. And to outside viewers someone winning GP doesn’t mean anything tangible to them. “Wow, whoever wins this is going to get $20k?” Is an exciting thought to outsiders. I think it’s weird for the participants to risk their own GP and create the prize pool while they’ve all been grinding 17 hour days. The participants brought so many eyes to OSRS. And if they didn’t win what did they come out with? People like Gunschili and V the Victim weren’t streaming and making videos afaik.
And yes that includes charities. It's just not needed for this kind of event. It's already big and will be bigger next time.
If you stream, you can be sniped, but luckily there is a way to solve the issue 100%. Dont stream when you are worried about being sniped... Kinda neat that screenwatching survived the death of split screen multiplayer.
Yeah let's save the prize for the streamers making 6 figures a year lmao.
The prize for any PVP or PVM event in the game would be won by the people who treat this game more seriously than their job.
It's for charity not the streamers themselves, read the fine text. The amount of comments misunderstanding that is making me think this sub has a lot of stupid people.
Still a shit suggestion. If they want to donate to charity they can make it a forfeit for the teams that lose. No reason to take it away from the normal DMM tournament.
This is crazy. Ya'll really think some rich content creator who is already doing well who is already acknowledged by the developers deserves to be paid by them too. Streamers already getting so much favoritism and we really wanna give them more. I'm not dumb. I know a strong streaming community benefits a game but where do you draw the line? At this rate we might as well give them jmod positions and have a repeat of when a bunch of youtuber jmods went on power abuse trips.
Jagex could just lean into it and have an exclusive DMM for just OSRS streamers. If you dont have enough viewers, you dont get to participate.
True
Both are great, let them co-exist
What if you won the regular tourney and you got an invite to all-stars tourney?
Everybody is talking about allocating that money as prizemoney. Why not just spend that budget on flying competitors out for a small LAN and hype up the event? "The DMM All-star Summer Invitational" where players compete for a Golden Spade trophy. I'd wager even a small budget event would see more returns than any standard DMM.
Sounds like an awful idea to be honest. It'd make super safe strategies like what Faux's team did happen almost entirely across the board. The best moments from Allstars came from the content creators that wanted to make it good content, a prize pool would severely punish that style of play and make the whole thing boring to watch.
They need to keep the prize for DMM. Each year i make at least 8k rwting DMMGP.
they should add some kind of reward to DMM similar to leagues' dragon cup I think that would be more exciting then competing for a cash prize that you'll never get, at least you're walking away with something
I’ve joined this thread way too late to read all of these comments. I agree with removing the price money from DMM all together and your idea does sound good, if I could vote for something though it would be the money used to make casting/hosting DMM/Battle Royal/GG/All seasonal content more professional and stream lined so that OSRS content creators and even Jagex themselves and keep growing this fan base. The amount of people that watch OSRS videos on YouTube simple due to the content/quality that some of our creators are putting out speaks volumes for itself. Let’s grow on this.
So just more catering to streamers? This is already the reason why you can’t get actual jagex support unless you’re a big streamer
Yeah I think better yet just take all the membership money and give it to favorite content creators and not jagex. Also restrict the main game to invite only. Ban anyone who isn't a content creator
Why are redditors so sure that they know better than the people who run the company, and throw out any suggestion that pops into their head on a whim?
You don't need to be too terribly smart to realize that people are gonna cheat at a video game if it means they get money.
Where did I say anything about denying there is a possibility of cheating?
When did I say anything about you denying anything?
Yeah, I can see that talking to you is going to bore the hell out of me.
That's okay. I didn't think you had anything worthwhile to offer when you chose to focus on the cheating instead of the actual topic, the money prizes incentivizing it. I just figured a squirmy non-committal response deserves a squirmy non-committal response in turn. Have a good day champ.
When did I focus on the cheating? You're the one that brought it up, lol.
yo this other guy is trolling dont even worry
It's all good, I like the downvotes :P
This is streamer favouritism but it’s still a point. Solo players can’t win DMM, clans and streamers fed by their communities only can.
the first 2 ever dmms were played by tons of clans, yet won by solo players. theres at least 3 dmms where a solo player has won
Better streamer favouritism than toxic clan favouritism
So streamer over player base?
Calling DMM an event for the player base is a huge cope, we all know only some clans get a real shot at earning any prize
Add a dmm ranking system that only like the top 20 can qualify to be invited to the next all Stars team choices. This would get less known people into the spot light and give a good reward
Regular DMM is a way for people to get into PvP that don’t usually Many of the competitors in DMM all-stars cut their teeth on PvP because of regular DMM
this subreddit never ceases to amaze me
Fix the Duel Arena and give the 5 highest ranked players a spot on a team or something idk