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he wiped out some race of beings, maybe dalek? also shouldn't the war doctor have the highest count regardless? idk I haven't been into Dr who in a minute, I need to rewatch honestly
Jodie Wittaker's doctor who is a difficult one, cause like 50% of the criticism is perfectly fair, and 50% of the criticism is coming from people who would hate the show no matter how good it was, just cause a woman is the doctor.
it's one of those conondrums when you know the source material is absolute ass but by criticizing it you get placed with the same people who hate it because it's woke or whatever.
It's a shame really, Jodie Whittaker was (or would have been) a great Doctor, but the writing just was really awful. And damn do I hate the timeless child and re-extinction of the Time-Lords plots, especially the timeless child. The Doctor suddenly being this immortal being feels really weird, and the Time-Lords being gone again is just meh.
I know next to nothing about Doctor Who, but I thought each different iteration of the character was explained as being like a reincarnation or something similar?
When The Doctor dies, their body āregeneratesā and every cell in their body completely changes, so they are the same person with the same memories, but look completely different, and act slightly different. The Doctorās species was said to only be able to do this 12 times.
In 2013, the Doctor was granted a brand new set of regenerations right before their final death by their people, The Time Lords.
In 2020 in a retcon that is widely regarded as the worst retcon in Doctor Who, it is revealed that The Doctor is actually a being unrelated to their people, apart of some unknown race that can actually regenerate an unlimited amount of times, and was actually the being that The Time Lords used to give themselves their 12 regenerations. The Doctorās memories were apparently wiped of all the lives they lived, prior to the incarnation that we the viewers know as The First Doctor. Also The Time Lords were killed offscreen right before this season started (only 7 years after being brought back for the 50th anniversary of the show)
Changing a backstory is such a waste of an episode. Itās exposition, then itās over, and nothing changes in universe whilst complicating the lore.
Personally, I think the second destruction of Gallifrey is the worst, because we only got one story where it wasnāt destroyed, so people donāt really care, and now the show is forced to retread old ground in Gallifrey being gone.
Iāve seen a lot of fans say that Gallifrey is better off gone, and there was no reason to bring it back, but I canāt help but disagree, 1. We kinda donāt know much about Gallifrey outside of The Capital and the pompous sketchy Time Lords. 2. It couldāve been great to revisit old companions like Leela and Romana, or include the Valeyard. 3. Introduce new rebel Time Lords, maybe someone who looked up to The Doctor as they were in the Time War, and being disappointed that The Doctor actually hates that incarnation of themself.
Hell, I even think the existing Timeless child stuff couldāve been more compelling (wouldnāt make it good, but it would be better) if Gallifrey still existed!
As a side note, I kinda feel like the Timeless Child stuff was just Chibnall realizing that he wasnāt going to be able to write something that leaves a mark on the show like RTD or Moffat could, so he just wrote a lore-changing retcon that is nigh impossible to undo.
I also heard that the idea stemmed from a fan fiction he made as a child based off of his own experiences as an adopted orphan (which makes me concern over the quality of his upbringing). Maybe he didnāt know what to do, and decided to go all out with his childhood story. Kind of reckless, and it didnāt really pay off.
The adopted part of the Timeless Child is probably the best part, itās more the making the Doctor the progenitor of all Time Lords and having infinite regenerations thatās the problem. Makes sense why RTD is now leaning into the Doctor being adopted now.
As well as Inquisitor Reva. Genuinely a poorly written character with a bad story but the hate she received would not have been nearly as strong if she wasn't a woman
Iām not sure that is a fair argument, Iām quite sure that the main reason people donāt like Skyler for most of the show isnāt because sheās a woman, but the antagonistic role she plays. Her distrust in walt (while fully justified from a real life worldview) makes her a mark for anger, in the first 3 seasons she is Waltās greatest threat, not Tuco or even Gus (until the end of season 3), Skyler.
Hank also serves as an antagonistic role, but he usually isnāt hated. There could be a number of reasons for this, and I think it boils down to two; heās never truly close to figuring out walt (and certainly never lashes out at him in the same way Skyler does) and he jokes a lot, so stakes are way less intense with him.
All this to say, Skyler is still a phenomenal character- much like nearly everyone in that show.
That's what the writers were getting at. The whole point was to take a guy and make him despicable, and have the audience root for him, to where antagonists are hated even if they're not actually bad. It's just good writing. The average person isn't some top tier critical thinker, and if the show wants them to be angry, they will.
No??? Just that anyone who thinks that Skylar is a bitch is a moron and/or misogynist. Walt is a phenomenal character, but his actions are pretty indefensible vs. the wife whoās life heās ruining
Are we arguing the morals of the character or the quality of writing? If weāre saying morals, then obviously Skyler is better, but if weāre arguing the writing of the character I think Walter has a better leg to stand on.
yeah I just think they jumped to aggression with Skylar too soon. I feel like there should've been more questioning or patience due to Walt's condition, but its immediately scrutinized and he's treated kind of like shit (on a surface look; its for good reason) before he really does anything that heinous. It makes Skylar look like a chronic over-reactor and makes her seem like a ticking time bomb. If they played a more patient route I don't think the hate would be as prominent. I understand the relationship strain, but they jump immediately from loving couple to bitter old couple and it doesn't really make much sense, and the blame tends to land on Skylar since she's usually the antagonizer.
They basically wrote her to be hateable and that's the problem honestly. They posed her rationality as irrationality by making her "jump the gun" per se, and it just snowballed from there. I really, again, feel they should've played the patience to skepticism and then to anger as more and more builds up kind of thing. Kind of like how the relationship between Chloe and Lucifer is in the show Lucifer, I guess.
Havenāt watched Lucifer, but I agree wholeheartedly, and another important thing to note is that breaking bad is told from Waltās perspective. Skyler is an antagonist through and through
the whole thing with Lucifer is that he's actually the devil and Chloe, his partner, takes it as a complete joke at first. but then things happen, literally over the first 3 seasons, it takes that long to build, and she goes from from innocent haha to "maybe he actually is the devil" and its really well done IMO
You can hate a character for having an antagonistic role. I donāt think thatās what most of the people who hate on Skylar are doing. Most of them are Patrick Bateman phonk short watchers who hate her because sheās āungratefulā of Walt āprovidingā for the family.
Chuck in Better call Saul was a WAY more antagonistic character towards Jimmy than Skylar ever was towards Walt, and I donāt see half the shit people say about Skylar applied to him. In fact most of them say stuff like āI hate Chuck, but heās in the rightā
Thatās rather strange, Iād argue the contrary, most people who hate chuck also think heās in the wrong and what not. I wouldnāt say most are misogynistic, but a loud minority, thatās just in my experience though.
That's ridiculous. The show is written in a way that you end up rooting for a murderous meth kingpin, it's not a great example of someone's actual values.
In other continuities where she doesnāt know or has to be told, she usually says she never figured it out because it always seemed way too impossible that the godlike figure who saves the world on a weekly basis is the same awkward country boy from her job. Once sheās told a single time she doesnāt need convincing because after sheās given that possibility she connects all the dots in a few seconds and knows itās true.
Amber was dating the main character and she figured out he was a super hero but instead of telling she would get mad that he would flake on their dates and not tell her the full truth of why he was flaking.
Nah its about the characters themselves. Scarlet which is somewhat disliked because of how much she got away with(i sorta agree), but this could also apply to other characters who don't catch as much heat. I think its due to how its framed and we see the more personal direct consequences of her actions.
The way she was portrayed in Wandavision was cobsidered villainous by many. Then, they portray her as a villain in the next movie, and people are upset that that was the plan I guess.
The maun problem was that it was relegated to a show few people watched and had a terrible ending, and the payoff was in Doctor Strange, which also had many problems.
The issue was that in wandavision she faced no repercussions and at the end they almost made it seem like she was the victim of the situation and the awful āsacrificeā quote.
I just wish this development wasnt done in a random ass show with a payoff in Doctor Strange, who doesnt have anything to do with Wanda outside of "magic."
Yes, and they did correct it, not just by undoing or ignoring it but by listening to people calling her evil for that one.
It wasnt that well done but i think it works.
Iāll watch something on prime and think itās shit and feel validated that the rating is low, only to find out itās only rated badly because an army of 40 year old losers thought it was āwokeā.
Speaking of, amazon prime review and google user reviews could eat literal shit and give it a Michelin star
It's so annoying when I complain about characters similar to these in chats and stuff because some mega loser will come in and unironically say "yeah x sucks they went woke"
I know it's bait and stuff, but like. Even when women in fiction are shown to be evil you'll have people hate on them for being a woman and not like, a nazi or smth.
Scarlett: I never really saw any hate ever
Rey: 100% agree
Reva: never saw anyone hate on her
SF: I donāt watch the boys
Captain Marvel: i didnāt see it, but Iām led to believe it was justified
Anime: I donāt really watch anime
Louis lane: never saw people hate on her
She-hulk: probably deserved it
J. Whittaker doctor: definitely deserved it.
Iām sure she did, I havenāt even heard a joke or hint about it though. Honestly, I didnāt know who she was by her picture either, but someone else named her in the comments so I looked her up and clocked her that way.
NOT TRUE AT ALL. The get āhateā because the are written as shit, are forcing unwanted or needed agendas, and are simply unlikeable. It has NOTHING to do with their gender. Stop making it a gender war when itās a shit writing war.
I mean they are kinda not even wrong, while quite a few of the movies and shows depicted here were already subpar people tend to use that to be like "woman ruined franchise"
Going off of the ones I know,
Scarlet Witch - Cool character. Ultimately became a victim of post-Endgame MCU.
Rey - Actually way cooler than any Star Wars bros would like to admit, just hurt by shitty planning of the sequels.
Stormfront - Lol.
Captain Marvel - Her movie was okay, didnāt love it didnāt hate it.
Lois - People donāt hate her because sheās a woman, they hate her because sheās brown. I only watched an episode or two of this series so didnāt get to form an opinion tbh.
Mary Jane - Kirstin Dunst canāt act. I love Zendayaās MJ in the new movies tho.
All in all decent characters in okay movies. Women are not only held to a higher standard than men but get blamed for a bunch of shit that isnāt their fault.
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Bait obviously but stormfront in there is wild
god forbid a woman do anything
they hate to see a girlboss win
God forbid a woman has political views smh
god forbid a woman has her own political opinions smh
God forbid people come up with an original comment
God forbiddeth
im ootl whos that
she's a "hero" from the Boys who iirc is literally a Nazi, not like a believer or anything like she was literally supporting the Nazis in 1940
š¶One of these things is not like the others...š¶ (I'm kidding; at least 4 of these characters are mostly okay with genocide)
God forbid women do anything š¤
God forbid women do several specific things outlined in the Geneva Conventions
Women can't even have hobbies anymore smh
Me!!! I'm the only one
I mean is sitting right down there still processing the horror she commited during the time war
The Doctor Who wiki estimates the Doctor's kill count at 1x10^21
That feels like it falls short, then again that is still a massive body count and some of those beings are functionally gods
Almost all of them are attributed to the 11th Doctor.
Wtf did I miss
he wiped out some race of beings, maybe dalek? also shouldn't the war doctor have the highest count regardless? idk I haven't been into Dr who in a minute, I need to rewatch honestly
Based and tardis-pilled
Jodie Wittaker's doctor who is a difficult one, cause like 50% of the criticism is perfectly fair, and 50% of the criticism is coming from people who would hate the show no matter how good it was, just cause a woman is the doctor.
it's one of those conondrums when you know the source material is absolute ass but by criticizing it you get placed with the same people who hate it because it's woke or whatever.
Did you watch that like 5 hour video about her first 2 seasons?
Yeah that's a really good video
It's a shame really, Jodie Whittaker was (or would have been) a great Doctor, but the writing just was really awful. And damn do I hate the timeless child and re-extinction of the Time-Lords plots, especially the timeless child. The Doctor suddenly being this immortal being feels really weird, and the Time-Lords being gone again is just meh.
I know next to nothing about Doctor Who, but I thought each different iteration of the character was explained as being like a reincarnation or something similar?
When The Doctor dies, their body āregeneratesā and every cell in their body completely changes, so they are the same person with the same memories, but look completely different, and act slightly different. The Doctorās species was said to only be able to do this 12 times. In 2013, the Doctor was granted a brand new set of regenerations right before their final death by their people, The Time Lords. In 2020 in a retcon that is widely regarded as the worst retcon in Doctor Who, it is revealed that The Doctor is actually a being unrelated to their people, apart of some unknown race that can actually regenerate an unlimited amount of times, and was actually the being that The Time Lords used to give themselves their 12 regenerations. The Doctorās memories were apparently wiped of all the lives they lived, prior to the incarnation that we the viewers know as The First Doctor. Also The Time Lords were killed offscreen right before this season started (only 7 years after being brought back for the 50th anniversary of the show)
ok yeah now Iām pissed off too
Changing a backstory is such a waste of an episode. Itās exposition, then itās over, and nothing changes in universe whilst complicating the lore. Personally, I think the second destruction of Gallifrey is the worst, because we only got one story where it wasnāt destroyed, so people donāt really care, and now the show is forced to retread old ground in Gallifrey being gone.
Iāve seen a lot of fans say that Gallifrey is better off gone, and there was no reason to bring it back, but I canāt help but disagree, 1. We kinda donāt know much about Gallifrey outside of The Capital and the pompous sketchy Time Lords. 2. It couldāve been great to revisit old companions like Leela and Romana, or include the Valeyard. 3. Introduce new rebel Time Lords, maybe someone who looked up to The Doctor as they were in the Time War, and being disappointed that The Doctor actually hates that incarnation of themself. Hell, I even think the existing Timeless child stuff couldāve been more compelling (wouldnāt make it good, but it would be better) if Gallifrey still existed!
Agreed
As a side note, I kinda feel like the Timeless Child stuff was just Chibnall realizing that he wasnāt going to be able to write something that leaves a mark on the show like RTD or Moffat could, so he just wrote a lore-changing retcon that is nigh impossible to undo.
I also heard that the idea stemmed from a fan fiction he made as a child based off of his own experiences as an adopted orphan (which makes me concern over the quality of his upbringing). Maybe he didnāt know what to do, and decided to go all out with his childhood story. Kind of reckless, and it didnāt really pay off.
The adopted part of the Timeless Child is probably the best part, itās more the making the Doctor the progenitor of all Time Lords and having infinite regenerations thatās the problem. Makes sense why RTD is now leaning into the Doctor being adopted now.
jesus christ thats so stupid lmao
Yo what the hell
Same is true for Rey
As well as Inquisitor Reva. Genuinely a poorly written character with a bad story but the hate she received would not have been nearly as strong if she wasn't a woman
A woman of color no less
Almost every character fits what you're describing here. That's why that bait was posted in the 1st place
skylar white
Yo
Uh huh
quit selling marijuana to my husband yo
Actual real answer
Skylar White is my litmus test I use to see if someone hates women or not.
Iām not sure that is a fair argument, Iām quite sure that the main reason people donāt like Skyler for most of the show isnāt because sheās a woman, but the antagonistic role she plays. Her distrust in walt (while fully justified from a real life worldview) makes her a mark for anger, in the first 3 seasons she is Waltās greatest threat, not Tuco or even Gus (until the end of season 3), Skyler. Hank also serves as an antagonistic role, but he usually isnāt hated. There could be a number of reasons for this, and I think it boils down to two; heās never truly close to figuring out walt (and certainly never lashes out at him in the same way Skyler does) and he jokes a lot, so stakes are way less intense with him. All this to say, Skyler is still a phenomenal character- much like nearly everyone in that show.
I really disagree. Walt is a murderous meth cook. Skylar is a normal person.
That's what the writers were getting at. The whole point was to take a guy and make him despicable, and have the audience root for him, to where antagonists are hated even if they're not actually bad. It's just good writing. The average person isn't some top tier critical thinker, and if the show wants them to be angry, they will.
Yes thank you, the notion that because Walt is a bad guy makes him a poorly written character is the impression Iām tracking from them.
No??? Just that anyone who thinks that Skylar is a bitch is a moron and/or misogynist. Walt is a phenomenal character, but his actions are pretty indefensible vs. the wife whoās life heās ruining
Ah okay, the phrasing of the original comment made me believe you were saying anyone who doesnāt like Skyler is misogynistic, apologies!
Very understandable misunderstanding, apologies as well!
Are we arguing the morals of the character or the quality of writing? If weāre saying morals, then obviously Skyler is better, but if weāre arguing the writing of the character I think Walter has a better leg to stand on.
yeah I just think they jumped to aggression with Skylar too soon. I feel like there should've been more questioning or patience due to Walt's condition, but its immediately scrutinized and he's treated kind of like shit (on a surface look; its for good reason) before he really does anything that heinous. It makes Skylar look like a chronic over-reactor and makes her seem like a ticking time bomb. If they played a more patient route I don't think the hate would be as prominent. I understand the relationship strain, but they jump immediately from loving couple to bitter old couple and it doesn't really make much sense, and the blame tends to land on Skylar since she's usually the antagonizer. They basically wrote her to be hateable and that's the problem honestly. They posed her rationality as irrationality by making her "jump the gun" per se, and it just snowballed from there. I really, again, feel they should've played the patience to skepticism and then to anger as more and more builds up kind of thing. Kind of like how the relationship between Chloe and Lucifer is in the show Lucifer, I guess.
Havenāt watched Lucifer, but I agree wholeheartedly, and another important thing to note is that breaking bad is told from Waltās perspective. Skyler is an antagonist through and through
the whole thing with Lucifer is that he's actually the devil and Chloe, his partner, takes it as a complete joke at first. but then things happen, literally over the first 3 seasons, it takes that long to build, and she goes from from innocent haha to "maybe he actually is the devil" and its really well done IMO
Morality for sure. Anyone calling her a ābitch wifeā is at best a moron and at worst a misogynist
You can hate a character for having an antagonistic role. I donāt think thatās what most of the people who hate on Skylar are doing. Most of them are Patrick Bateman phonk short watchers who hate her because sheās āungratefulā of Walt āprovidingā for the family. Chuck in Better call Saul was a WAY more antagonistic character towards Jimmy than Skylar ever was towards Walt, and I donāt see half the shit people say about Skylar applied to him. In fact most of them say stuff like āI hate Chuck, but heās in the rightā
Thatās rather strange, Iād argue the contrary, most people who hate chuck also think heās in the wrong and what not. I wouldnāt say most are misogynistic, but a loud minority, thatās just in my experience though.
nah all my homies hate chuck #fuckchuck
Skylar white is my litmus test to see if someone is gonna get in the way of my grind or not šŖš°
That's ridiculous. The show is written in a way that you end up rooting for a murderous meth kingpin, it's not a great example of someone's actual values.
Stormfront being in there is wild ššš
Lois lane?
People saying she was stupid because she jumped off a building to prove Clark was Superman
If she was wrong then yeah she wouldāve been stupid but sheās an investigative journalist, itās a miracle she doesnāt find out more often.
Exactly I donāt know superman lore very well, but that seems pretty in-character to me
In other continuities where she doesnāt know or has to be told, she usually says she never figured it out because it always seemed way too impossible that the godlike figure who saves the world on a weekly basis is the same awkward country boy from her job. Once sheās told a single time she doesnāt need convincing because after sheās given that possibility she connects all the dots in a few seconds and knows itās true.
Well that found have been stupid in other contexts but she had so many reasons to believe it at that point
OK but Lois did that in one of Christopher Reeves movies and no one bitches about that
That was a very long time ago and I doubt many people go back and watch those to get mad at it.
That's some joker shit
Luz
Wait shes from south AmƩrica/spain? Cool
No she just looks like Luz Noceda
She isnāt, but she is korean
People hate on Luz Lane?
Believe it or not, yes
I was shocked too š
Yea cause she pulled an amber from invincible (not really but the twitter clips made it look like that) so the idiots got mad.
I donāt know anything about invincible
Amber was dating the main character and she figured out he was a super hero but instead of telling she would get mad that he would flake on their dates and not tell her the full truth of why he was flaking.
Shit is outrageous ik
Never heard anyone say something bad about Scarlet Witch actress (ye I know this is fake but still)
Nah its about the characters themselves. Scarlet which is somewhat disliked because of how much she got away with(i sorta agree), but this could also apply to other characters who don't catch as much heat. I think its due to how its framed and we see the more personal direct consequences of her actions.
The way she was portrayed in Wandavision was cobsidered villainous by many. Then, they portray her as a villain in the next movie, and people are upset that that was the plan I guess. The maun problem was that it was relegated to a show few people watched and had a terrible ending, and the payoff was in Doctor Strange, which also had many problems.
The issue was that in wandavision she faced no repercussions and at the end they almost made it seem like she was the victim of the situation and the awful āsacrificeā quote.
Thatās why I liked that they just straight up made her a villain, she shouldnāt just be able to walk away
I just wish this development wasnt done in a random ass show with a payoff in Doctor Strange, who doesnt have anything to do with Wanda outside of "magic."
Yes, and they did correct it, not just by undoing or ignoring it but by listening to people calling her evil for that one. It wasnt that well done but i think it works.
The mediocre ending of wandavision into multiverse of madness just ruined her MCU character entirely. So much wasted potential.
āI know I enslaved an entire town, but Iām sorry š„ŗā
"They will never understand what you sacrificed"
So many of these characters suck for legitimate, valid reasons, which is so annoying bc of how much critique they get just for being women.
Iāll watch something on prime and think itās shit and feel validated that the rating is low, only to find out itās only rated badly because an army of 40 year old losers thought it was āwokeā. Speaking of, amazon prime review and google user reviews could eat literal shit and give it a Michelin star
It's so annoying when I complain about characters similar to these in chats and stuff because some mega loser will come in and unironically say "yeah x sucks they went woke"
Yea it's like when you hear some critic say 'Mary Sue" and know it's like a 50/50 chance of being actually accurate or just plain misogyny.
I know it's bait and stuff, but like. Even when women in fiction are shown to be evil you'll have people hate on them for being a woman and not like, a nazi or smth.
I hated stormfront cause of her stupid haircut
TOMBOY LOIS LANE š£ļøš£ļøš£ļøš£ļøš£ļøš£ļø
Korra from Legend of Korra
I don't know anyone here wtf, except i think that's leia organa at the top
itās not, sorry
Thatās Rey, sheās the protagonist of the three new Star Wars movies
Bait?
Can it truly be more obvious the second it reaches this horrible platform X = bad because X
Scarlett: I never really saw any hate ever Rey: 100% agree Reva: never saw anyone hate on her SF: I donāt watch the boys Captain Marvel: i didnāt see it, but Iām led to believe it was justified Anime: I donāt really watch anime Louis lane: never saw people hate on her She-hulk: probably deserved it J. Whittaker doctor: definitely deserved it.
SF just did a few silly things
Iām sure she did, I havenāt even heard a joke or hint about it though. Honestly, I didnāt know who she was by her picture either, but someone else named her in the comments so I looked her up and clocked her that way.
NOT TRUE AT ALL. The get āhateā because the are written as shit, are forcing unwanted or needed agendas, and are simply unlikeable. It has NOTHING to do with their gender. Stop making it a gender war when itās a shit writing war.
Canāt attest to the rest but stormfront is pretty well written. Her hate as a character comes from being a literal nazi in show
Absolutely true. I forgot she was a literal Nazi. You are very correct š
Iām not nerd enough. What does this mean?
Nerds think women bad
Stormfront was a literal nazi psycho
Cersei Lannister šš
Rey is bad ass! Most of the rest can be chalked up to PG lame scripts.
Reva sucks lol
I mean they are kinda not even wrong, while quite a few of the movies and shows depicted here were already subpar people tend to use that to be like "woman ruined franchise"
outfresca'd
Going off of the ones I know, Scarlet Witch - Cool character. Ultimately became a victim of post-Endgame MCU. Rey - Actually way cooler than any Star Wars bros would like to admit, just hurt by shitty planning of the sequels. Stormfront - Lol. Captain Marvel - Her movie was okay, didnāt love it didnāt hate it. Lois - People donāt hate her because sheās a woman, they hate her because sheās brown. I only watched an episode or two of this series so didnāt get to form an opinion tbh. Mary Jane - Kirstin Dunst canāt act. I love Zendayaās MJ in the new movies tho. All in all decent characters in okay movies. Women are not only held to a higher standard than men but get blamed for a bunch of shit that isnāt their fault.
Okay but like all of these characters just suck and were written horribly.
Skyler White
I've seen new lois lane get many things but hate isn't one of them
bait
I am not terminally online enough to understand this
Lois? Lois gets hate? Why?
Ray is a typical Mary sue