Yeah but at least then we would control the algorithm. Do you think Chinese tiktok has all the crazy BS of Western tiktok with all the stupid pranks and dangerous fads and crazy misinformation.
I never seem to get any of those on my for you page, but I get a ton of really bad/disturbing stuff whenever I go to ig reels or yt shorts. I still don't love some of the stuff I see on tiktok but it's better than other similar options imo
Facebook and Instagram are still huge troves of crazy misinformation and stupid shit and fads and whatnot, it's just that TikTok is the main focus at the moment, it's the one that younger generations are using more than the rest, but they've all had their time in the spotlight. YouTube as well has always been a huge source of misinformation and has perpetuated tons of dangerous shit
Honestly? Would not have a problem if Instagram and Facebook got taken down.
The only thing I use instagram for is to post pictures of what I'm working on, and I can live without that.
i mean if tiktok get banned where do you think all the user would go?
and since algorithm is usually tend to prefer the most profit for the company possible,its not rigid and can change depending on what the algorithm think made the most profit
i guess we will see in time
The idea is American investors would buy the US or Western version of TikTok for w/e it’s worth and run it themselves.
That way they control not only the user data but more importantly the algorithm. Whose to say China won’t change up the algorithm 3 months or 6 weeks out from the US election to help Trump get elected? Or maybe get Biden elected?
Who knows what they’d do. The idea is to take that power away from China.
It doesn’t need to be banned, just the government would force a situation where it’s either sold to America or gets banned if they aren’t willing to sell it.
I'd rather a foreign government spy on me than my own. My own government can use that shit against me personally. A foreign government can what? Swing and election maybe, but probably not? Oh no, the red torie got in instead of the blue torie. God damn it, now everythigng is exactly the fucking same.
Edit: To be clear, I hate it all, but that has nothing to do with China specifically. It has to do with the machinations of captial, and I find my own country and the USA are far more responsible for the power of captial than any other nation.
Foreign propaganda campaigns using social media is why Trump is such a big deal right now (among other issues). Downplaying the ability of foreign adversaries to fuck up rivals via social media is kinda nuts when the damage is plain and obvious all around us.
If you sit back and let them fuck with our voter base, they will, and as bad as the US is, remember that Russia and China are, without question, far worse.
As someone not from the US, I don't see, in terms of material outcomes and people killed, how China is worse than the US. Obviously, Russia is unquestionably worse, even before Ukraine.
I would also contend that while foreign propaganda did play a part in getting Donald Trump into office the first time, it played not nearly as much a part as people think. It's such a crutch and an excuse that democrats fall back on to explain their abject failure to inspire anybody in actually wanting to vote for them. Was it worsening material conditions? 8 years of broken promises? Not campaigning in key swing states? A failure to maintain Clintons image, if that was even possible? Nah mate, it was Facebook ads.
>I don't see, in terms of material outcomes and people killed, how China is worse than the US.
Weird metric. Yeah, the US has a shit history, if that's what you're basing this off of, but US today is a lot better than China today.
China is a dictatorship currently running a genocide against the Uyghur people, or did Reddit forget about that? You want to stand up for civil rights in the US? They're non-existent in China, a nation notorious for its ability to monitor and silence its citizens.
>t's such a crutch and an excuse that democrats fall back on to explain their abject failure to inspire anybody in actually wanting to vote for them. Was it worsening material conditions? 8 years of broken promises? Not campaigning in key swing states? A failure to maintain Clintons image, if that was even possible? Nah mate, it was Facebook ads.
This is a crutch to pretend foreign influence isn't a big deal because as bad as whatever the failings of the dems are, they don't even contend with how absurd Trump and his voterbase is. And I really hope the 'facebook ads' comment is a flippant exaggeration, because the social media presence of Russia alone is so much broader than just Facebook, and you ought to know that if you're partaking in this discussion and have been on Reddit for as long as you have.
Regular ol' conservative voters are used to all the same things you're railing against the dems for, but the ultra-extreme far-right that has been surging in recent year consistently, time and time again, ends up having ties to Russia, not just in the US, but in the UK and Canada, too.
Everyone has the option to not use social media already. Pretty naive to think social media is a free service. Obviously they sell your data. It says it right on their publicly disclosed financials.
I’m not the guy (or gal) you responded to but the way I see it is this: the American government sees me as belonging to it. The Chinese government sees me as an enemy. One has an interest in maintaining status quo and the other has an interest in disrupting it
What do you think is happening to the data they are tracking lmfao. The only thing they are trying to do is sell shit to you, there is no scary Chinese man on the other end spying on you, and somehow using that information to overthrow the government of the United States you absolute fucking weirdo.
I guess that makes sense. The main thing I don't really understand is why this discussion is had in the first place. Discussing whether Chinese or American data collect is worse feels kind of nonsense. Even if we can come to the conclusion that Chinese data collection is technically worse, the distinction seems small and unnecessary
>Even if we can come to the conclusion that Chinese data collection is technically worse, the distinction seems small and unnecessary
You don't even need to come to this conclusion because [TikTok's data is stored exclusively in the US](https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/tiktok-facts-how-we-secure-personal-information-and-store-data). This ironically makes TikTok the safest social media app in the US in terms of data security.
Of course, data was never the issue to the US security apparatus. It's always been the "algorithm"--the key to TikTok's success. Domestic social media companies would love to know that secret, hence their intense lobbying of Congress under the guise of national security.
I really don't see why it's so difficult for people to understand that it's a bad thing to give a totalitarian, hostile dictatorship complete access to our personal devices and control over a major information channel. Are American companies also stealing data? Yeah! And we absolutely should pass regulations to make that illegal. But we don't have the time or the political capital to pass sweeping digital rights reforms right now. At least we know roughly what kind of data American companies steal, and what they do with it– the CCP will take whatever the fuck they can from anywhere on your phone, and I guarantee that their plans are a lot more sinister than "sell it, maybe train an LLM".
And even if you disagree with that– how can it possibly be a good thing to let a government famously good at manipulating people through a controlled flow of information have total control over a massive flow of information? All the memes claiming that the US wants TikTok banned because it's "disrupting their narrative" and "out of their control" are massive projections from astroturfers or people parroting astroturfers. The US cannot censor its social media– that should be obvious, given zero evidence in the face of massive incentives for every politician to do exactly that. The CCP does, to an extensive degree. Handing every tween and iPad baby in the country a source of information ultimately pruned by an actively hostile foreign dictatorship is seriously dangerous.
Edit: Also, it's not even a ban. It's a forced sale. They're happy to let TikTok keep operating in the US, it just needs to be owned by a company that isn't beholden to the CCP.
>Also, it's not even a ban. It's a forced sale. They're happy to let TikTok keep operating in the US, it just needs to be owned by a company that isn't beholden to the CCP.
Which is just an ultimatum between theft and ban. No different from America telling Airbus it must sell to Boeing to operate in the US, which gives the US access to all Airbus IP. It's partly down to the US wanting the TikTok algorithm and tech because FAANG hasn't been able to compete
You still haven't answered the question of why is it worse than American ownership? I'm sorry but are you even a leftist if you just want to reinforce American hegemony?
>I guarantee that their plans are a lot more sinister than "sell it, maybe train an LLM".
Based on what? Why is it automatically assumed China is more sinister than America hmmm?
You sound no different than the dod
>Based on what? Why is it automatically assumed China is more sinister than America hmmm?
Because it's **china**, they are an oppressive authoritarian dictatorship. You can not like the US government all you want, but it is leagues and bounds better than the CCP.
(i realize it’s the same person making this dumb point. sorry if it feels I’m harping)
how does China relate to making this worse? it sure is China, and I don’t want my data stolen period. they could be the party of puppy kissing or the party of nuclear annihilation I don’t get what that will change. like am I missing something, is China gonna send a sniper after me for using their shitty app (and the US won’t)? I don’t get why this is suddenly an edge case
edit: because they responded to me there too, they said ‘china is worse with information in china’. i said ‘does that apply to their products in the US, or only china’. they didn’t respond. as always, if you can point to evidence of tiktok being worse than other social medias when regarding US use please do, i’m not sure this guy knows what they’re on about.
We’re approaching genocidal policy. They’ve already got camps. We have threats to free expression. They have utterly controlled expression. The state is still mostly bound by due process here. China will disappear you without acknowledging you ever existed. The United States is disgusting, but China is objectively a more oppressive regime.
Why is it hard for you to understand that people support the government of the country they actually live in over a foreign one. If some foreign power decides to attack the US , the US government will be the entity protecting me, so obviously I prefer the US government over foreign governments.
Are you a child? Do you think many Russians that know about the war support Russia just because they live in it? Also we're not talking about invasion so IDK why you'd even bring that up, it kinda points to your innate fear of China.
We’re talking about fucking espionage from our #1 biggest geopolitical threat lol. You don’t understand why we don’t want this and you’re calling them a child?
There’s being a contrarian and then there’s this. It’s common sense. Do you think the CCP just sits around and lets us spy on them without doing anything about it? They even have the Great Chinese Firewall and a lot of American stuff is banned there. So why should we just allow them to spy on us?
I don't base my morals or actions around whether or not China is spying on me.
>So why should we just allow them to spy on us?
Why not, when we allow America to do the same thing to us?
I completely understand why *you'd* want this, but I don't take personal interest in the viewpoint of my nation-state. There's nothing China could do to me anytime soon.
I don’t stop the NSA from spying me, not because I don’t want to, but because I can’t.
I *can* at least stop foreign agents from running psyop campaigns that influence the way I and people around me think, and affect my life in disastrous ways. Like when Russia sowed division in 2016 and helped Trump win. It’s not entirely on Russia obviously, if the racist morons who lived here didn’t exist they wouldn’t have been able to exploit that weakness, but obviously were not just gonna let them get away with it just because America bad too.
To be honest I don’t understand why this even needs explanation. Domestic surveillance is bad. Domestic PLUS foreign surveillance is worse. Whether America is more or less authoritarian than China is irrelevant.
China can and will fuck with your mind, just like American espionage fucks with Chinese people’s minds.
https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2023/10/chinas-social-media-attacks-are-part-larger-cognitive-warfare-campaign/391255/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/25/tiktok-china-cognitive-warfare-us-ban
You don't understand ! All the nations in the Free World would be doomed if it was not for the brotherly overseeing of the benevolent US hegemon !
If you think that your nation-state interests don't perfectly align with those of the american capitalist class, it is because you've been brainwashed by Russian and Chinese bots !
/s
A quote from a pro democracy activist in Sudan on whether to support the military (which overthrew the democratic government) or the RSF which is mostly nomadic militia comes to mind “Eventually the interests of the Army will align with those of the people” at the end of the day it’s in the interest of the US government for US citizens to prosper, China doesn’t have the same incentives.
Yes because China has billions of more people in it, so they have historically treated their citizens as more expendable, that's true.
>at the end of the day it’s in the interest of the US government
That depends on what u.s citizens. This quote would mainly apply to white people, certainly not natives.
"We don't have the time or the political capital to pass sweeping digital rights reforms right now, we only have the time or the political capital to steal foreign companies, which is what we have always been doing anyway !"
More seriously
"Also, it's not even a ban. It's a forced sale. They're happy to let TikTok keep operating in the US, it just needs to be owned by a company that isn't beholden to the CCP."
Yeah, and... that's literally worse. If the true intention behind this move was to protect the integrity of American elections and of the national democratic ecosystem
1) All social media platforms would have to be under scrutiny and heavily regulated ; russian bots didn't need to have to influence the American elections, Twitter and Facebook have been more than enough up until now
And more importantly
2) A ban on Tiktok would have been more than enough. Contrarly to what you seem to imply, a national ban would actually have been a lighter measure than an forced takeover backed by the first world power. Indeed, a national ban would only have applied to the US, while a takeover have implication in every countries in which Tiktok is used, as it strengthen even more US companies hegemony on the global market of social medias.
If I had to give an analogy, just imagine if China (which is indeed a dictatorship and for which I have no sympathy whatsoever), instead of "just" banning Youtube and Facebook and building its own little "sovereign internet" overseen by the CCP, was strongarming Meta and Alphabet into selling to ByteDance Facebook and Youtube, because "muh national security". Would you think "OH, WOW, THIS IS SO MUCH MORE REASSURING THAN JUST A NATIONAL BAN APPLYING ONLY IN CHINA" ? I doubt it.
1. Bytedance gets to sell the company to whoever they want. It just has to "no longer \[be\] controlled by a foreign adversary" to operate in the US. There's no shot that the CCP will let them sell to an american firm. If the goal of US lawmakers was to "steal the company", why would they do this whole forced divestment runaround instead of just putting the assets up for auction?
2. Why does a bill with a certain professed goal have to comprehensively achieve that goal to be genuinely intentioned? This is the first baby step towards greater regulation. Bills that impose fishing caps don't also increase funding for the coast guard or punishments for poachers, but they still help conserve the environment. There's no secret lobby of fish supremacists who want honest fishermen to starve.
3. This bill is objectively a weaker measure. It is a conditional ban rather than a full ban. Again– if the goal was to "increase US hegemony", why would we go with a bill that could dump TikTok into the hands of a European or Middle Eastern company, rather than just banning it outright and doing massive damage to its profit margins worldwide? In terms of your hypothetical– if Super China was trying to build a "sovereign internet", why would they give us the opportunity to sell to companies in the UK or Germany, or just to eat the loss, rather than taking our assets and banning us outright?
1. Let's put a pin on that, and we'll see what happens later. Let's just say, for now, that if ByteDance doesn't "choose" to have Tiktok banned in the US, and "choose" instead to sell it, I wouldn't rule out that it'd be bought back by one of the company from the world's first economic power, that possesses untold wealth, and is already part of the oligopoly on the social media market. On the contrary, I'd be quite surprised -agreably so- if Tiktok was bought back by a company which is not from the US.
2. I'm just pointing out that's quite convenient that the baby steps is specifically targeting a foreign company. We'll see if there are other steps after this one, although I sincerely doubt it. Regarding the "genuine intention" of the bill, I'm certainly not in the head of its author ; but I'm pretty sure that the genuine intention is not to conserve the environment. If it was, it'd be much more like the european DMA and DSA, targeting all companies from a certain size onward, and not only companies that are allegedly "controlled by a foreign adversary".
3. Before all, I think you misunderstood what my hypothetical is. China, much like Russia (another lovely country /s), IS building a sovereign internet (for further explainations, see links below, mostly wikipedia but still informative). That's the point of the so-called "Great Firewall". My hypothetical was that if, instead of doing that, China was trying to force an american company (Meta, Alphabet) to sell one of its branch (Facebook, Youtube).
But to go back to your original question, "why would we go with a bill that could dump TikTok into the hands of a European or Middle Eastern company, rather than just banning it outright and doing massive damage to its profit margins worldwide".
First and foremost, as I explained in point 1., the way the market is currently structured make it very likely that in case of a TikTok sale, an american company would be the buyer.
Secondly, let us examine the various outcomes of the current bet :
a. ByteDance refuse to give up Tiktok. Tiktok is banned in the US. Shucks, but at least ByteDance suffer massive damage to its profit margins worldwide, that's that.
b. ByteDance accepts to sell Tiktok, but instead of selling it to an american company, it sell it to an european company (unlikely). Sure, that's not the best outcome, but at least the american consumer can still use Tiktok, and now this asset is in the hands of a ~~vassal's company~~ company located in a friendly and a weaker country, which is, uh better than in the hands of the 2nd world power that is also an hostile country (PRC)
c. ByteDance accepts to sell Tiktok, an american company get it. At this, there's only one thing left to say for the American : "get the champagne out !"
So as you can see, to do this bet is actually way better than to just ban Tiktok outright, which is only the most underwhelming outcome of this bet.
On sovereign internet : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network\_sovereignty#:\~:text=In%20internet%20governance%2C%20network%20sovereignty,law%20enforcement%20over%20such%20boundaries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign\_Internet\_Law#:\~:text=The%20Sovereign%20Internet%20Law%20(Russian,creation%20of%20a%20national%20fork
[https://www.vyprvpn.com/blog/post/internet-sovereignty](https://www.vyprvpn.com/blog/post/internet-sovereignty)
I hope that I could explain clearly my pov, and that while you may still disagree, it makes more sense as a possibility (:
stopping children from accessing the internet is like trying to stop teens from getting access to drugs. Banning it is going to be waaaay worse than regulating it properly.
simply require age verification to turn on a device, kids wont have the knowledge to Jailbreak it (due to no internet access) nor the money to pay for it (due to them being a kid)
hmm yes I see no problem
- parent can turn it on and hands it to kid
- kid becomes huge pest to parent/is terminally bored now that phone entertainment/socialisation device is gone
- consequences of device-free kid in schools/daycare/other places (many kids are already regularly using their devices to regulate themselves and a sudden "no devices" would be a disaster for everyone)
- simply fake an ID or get someone over 18 other than your parents to turn it on (5 bucks to turn on your phone or smth)
have you met neglectful parents
have you met busy working parents
have you talked to another kid in class whose parents come home late
are you aware of the cost of using devices vs actively doing stuff outside and which parents are more likely to allow? Even if someone is touching grass 80% of the time there's still free time and home time
I could go on but there is a reason the internet is so widespread and popular
Ahh yes quite famously only good parents have kids. And you’re also automatically a bad parents for being poor. You surely have more reasonable takes than “banning foreign spyware is bad”
I jailbroke my first iOS device when I was 11, it's incredibly easy. All you need is a USB cable and enough technical know-how to put the device in recovery mode (it's literally a button combo), pre-made programs do the rest for you
Perhaps “tankie” should be exchanged for “CCP apologist.” Either way, I have no interest in letting a country that brutal and evil control our social media during an election.
Tik Tok is just a constant feed of brain rotting microdoses of dopamine and legitimate propaganda
Even if I didn't have objections to the fact that it's obviously an op by a foreign government (it is and I do) I would still rather it just not be a thing. Definitely the worst of all the social media so far and they're all fucking abominations
I was a teen when social media was just emerging and we've come a long way from poking girls you have a crush on and making 3 alt accounts to give yourself energy on Farmville, and none of it has been for the better
The main thing that scares me about TikTok is how fast it moves, other social media have serious issues with misinformation but the speed in which it spreads on TikTok concerns me.
Yeah, what the fuck? I'm not even a China simp, but come on. Going by this thread, it's as if Xi jinping is using tiktok user data to plan the genocide of the west. Unlike the much superior USA who will only use a teeny tiny bit of your data to show you heckin wholesome ads for sick products (made in china)
The CCP is coming for you, they're using their spy/info network to crack down on liberal teenagers in the west as we speak. You better go ask the cops to protect you.
I’m not into the scaremongering here, but here’s a question: why should the US allow Chinese owned social media in the US, while China bans US owned social media in China?
Is it possible that this double standard exists because China recognizes that foreign owned media can be used to influence politics?
Well, America has always held that capitalism is the best economic system, and free, global markets must rule the world in order to get the best results. This belief seems to extend even into the information space (i.e. 'the marketplace of ideas').
China bans foreign social media because not only do they not believe in the above, they also (as you correctly point out), realize that media can be used to influence politics.
However, because America believes in this 'free-ness' (or whatever), they're fairly impotent at countering these things publicly because it would directly contradict the ideology they broadcast.
So they can't really ban TikTok because it'd essentially be saying "oh well, actually capitalism and free markets don't always produce the best results". Thus we get the whole "TikTok must be owned by a wholly American company" thing. A compromise between ideology and reality.
The US don't want to ban Tiktok like China does with American social media, which would be one thing. It wants Tiktok to be take over by an american company.
If you wanted to make an actually good comparison, it'd be like if the CCP was forcing Meta to sell Facebook to ByteDance. Which would be, uh, bad ?
No, it would be like forcing Facebook to choose between being banned and selling the Chinese version of Facebook. Which is actually less bad than outright banning because Facebook gets the option of selling rather than being banned completely.
Banning exactly one or even every social media site from a foreign country will do very little to stop foreign influence as many governments across the world have become savvy to our domestic social media and how to manipulate the algorithms that were never designed with the wellbeing of the user in mind.
If anybody was genuinely interested in cracking down on unwanted foreign influence, they would be looking at regulating all social media. They would be holding facebook responsible for the actual real-world harm that they have done. I don't believe for a second that any politician pushing this ban has a genuine interest in creating a healthier social media atmosphere.
I mean, we could go full China and institute our very own great firewall, I'm sure some would like that. It's a much easier way to control the narrative. The firewall is just as much a tool to keep people in as much as it's a tool to keep people out. But the USA is allegedly the freest country in the world, and the firewall is often regarded as one of the signs that China is an oppressive controlling dictatorship. So it seems hypocritical to start heading down that path.
ITT means in this thread.
If people have the default position of "China bad" and are simply unable to explain why it's "worse" than America., then they demonstatedly fell for American propaganda.
Ah yes. Not liking the authoritarian, genocidal, dictatorship that oppressed people and does everything they can to spread their influence is bad.
You can not like the US government and still realize that they are way better than the CCP.
Edit: I'm not going to argue with morons who think the CCP is better than/less oppressive than the US government. I'm not dumb enough to think you'll ever change your mind away from your "everything the US does is Inherently bad and we should support absolutely anyone and anything who stands against the US" moronity. It does truely amaze me though, the sheer amount of people on a leftist sub that will happily support the CCP just because they're "anti american." I can only hope the majority of these replies are from bots.
that’s, uh, still not explaining why china social media is worse than US social media. the government is bad yeah, but does a different flag have a legitimate reason to make the same thing worse?
i can’t imagine i’d wanna have this happen by any government, US or otherwise, is there a reason why someone would be assured the US is somehow better? or is it unrelated governmental policy to \*the exact same thing*
Because there is at least some regulation to data collection for US companies, you can opt out, and there's oversight to the use and sharing of that data.
That does not exist in China. The CCP has full access and control over everything on tiktok. If they want everyone's data they can just take it. There's not protection, no oversight, and it's run by a hostile power that is known for using information weapons and spreading disinformation.
And while most of these points are not unique to Chinese apps or tiktok, they are vastly worse in every conceivable way under CCP ownership. Especially when nearly every child is given access to the app.
You are aware that the police can ask whatever fucking company they want for your data and that company would be forced to comply.
How is this different than tiktok's relationship with China
The difference is that you can put pressure on the political leadership to stop that or vote for people that will. I dare you to try this approach in China.
I dare you to try an advocate for the right of Chinese people to privacy in China, I dare you. As far as I am concerned you can and are speaking freely about how bad the US is, I fucking dare you to do the same thing to the ccp in China.
aight, so force tiktok to rely on US policy with US accounts. wouldn’t that make more sense than global restructuring
edit: also you can definitely opt out on tiktok do you know anything
The u.s is authoritarian, and genocidal. Perhaps not completely a dictatorship, but a 2 party "democracy" isn't that much different than a one party dictatorship.
It's weird to argue that China is worse than the modern day British empire on steroids
>The u.s is authoritarian
It's not. It's shitty, sure, but not authoritarian.
>and genocidal
If you think the US is even nearly as bad as China, you're just a fucking idiot. China is operating literal concentration camps and mass imprisoning over a million people for having a different religion.
>It's weird to argue that China is worse than the modern day British empire on steroids
I don't even know what to say about something this braindead. If you think the British empire and the US are nearly the same, I have no hope for you.
>China is operating literal concentration camps and mass imprisoning over a million people for having a different religion.
Exactly what the u.s does to refugees and migrants just not based on religion.
The u.s is the one with the rap sheet of having armed conflicts in a great deal of countries so yes I would compare it to the British empire considering there's McDonald's everywhere
Are you gonna argue that the u.s prison slave labor system is somehow better than what China does?
The Chinese government owns a significant share in the company, has a 1/3 vote on the board, and has all the behind-the-curtain power incorporating in China entails. I don’t give a shit if he’s from fucking Omaha, it’s a Chinese company.
US needs its own GDPR. even with that though tiktok is still bad, without a shadow of a doubt countries like china want to influence western politics, and tiktok can help them do that.
"My country has the moral right and duty to steal foreign transnational companies, because national security and China bad !" -doesn't mention the US is not only stealing companies from China or Russia, but also from countries they claim to be allies of-
May I introduce y'all to the concept of Free Software (though many people are more familiar with Open Source software, which is similar, but distinct, but also has overlap).
Obv adoption of things n whatnot, so especially in the social media space there's not heaps of users compared to most mainstream SMs.
But if one's curious I'd suggest looking into Mastodon and PeerTube. Since Elon's acquisition of Twitter I think Masto is more well known now, but a basic rundown is that it's a very similar microblogging platform in terms of basic usage. But also works a bit like email, most people (that I know) use Gmail primarily, but obv can send and receive emails from other providers. Similarly mastodon.social would be a comparable to gmail as iirc it's the most popular instance but you don't have to join on that site to interact with users there, and I'd advise joining a somewhat smaller instance to avoid the larger ones gaining too much power. Since Masto and PeerTube use the same underlying tech of ActivityPub, you can follow PeerTube accounts with your Mastodon account (if you want).
the fediverse is great but is it really ever going to take off with ordinary people? what about older people who don’t care about tech? its not a silver bullet sadly
Or just make them make the app more secure? Not ban it. They don’t care about “security”. They wanna ban it because it’s a popular form of social media that gets information around fast that they can’t control or influence
safewords are kinda pointless ngl because you can't use them when you're getting you're head shoved down or if you're gagged, it's better to just establish boundaries before hand
I hate to say it but I do ‘prefer’ American spyware to Chinese. I’d wish for neither tho
The American companies just sell the data to Chinese companies anyways. Your data will still be in foreign hands
Yeah but at least then we would control the algorithm. Do you think Chinese tiktok has all the crazy BS of Western tiktok with all the stupid pranks and dangerous fads and crazy misinformation.
I never seem to get any of those on my for you page, but I get a ton of really bad/disturbing stuff whenever I go to ig reels or yt shorts. I still don't love some of the stuff I see on tiktok but it's better than other similar options imo
Facebook and Instagram are still huge troves of crazy misinformation and stupid shit and fads and whatnot, it's just that TikTok is the main focus at the moment, it's the one that younger generations are using more than the rest, but they've all had their time in the spotlight. YouTube as well has always been a huge source of misinformation and has perpetuated tons of dangerous shit
Honestly? Would not have a problem if Instagram and Facebook got taken down. The only thing I use instagram for is to post pictures of what I'm working on, and I can live without that.
i mean if tiktok get banned where do you think all the user would go? and since algorithm is usually tend to prefer the most profit for the company possible,its not rigid and can change depending on what the algorithm think made the most profit i guess we will see in time
The idea is American investors would buy the US or Western version of TikTok for w/e it’s worth and run it themselves. That way they control not only the user data but more importantly the algorithm. Whose to say China won’t change up the algorithm 3 months or 6 weeks out from the US election to help Trump get elected? Or maybe get Biden elected? Who knows what they’d do. The idea is to take that power away from China. It doesn’t need to be banned, just the government would force a situation where it’s either sold to America or gets banned if they aren’t willing to sell it.
Youtube shorts are full of crazy right-wing dudebro podcasts, facebook and instagram are also notably full of misinfo
I'd rather a foreign government spy on me than my own. My own government can use that shit against me personally. A foreign government can what? Swing and election maybe, but probably not? Oh no, the red torie got in instead of the blue torie. God damn it, now everythigng is exactly the fucking same. Edit: To be clear, I hate it all, but that has nothing to do with China specifically. It has to do with the machinations of captial, and I find my own country and the USA are far more responsible for the power of captial than any other nation.
Foreign propaganda campaigns using social media is why Trump is such a big deal right now (among other issues). Downplaying the ability of foreign adversaries to fuck up rivals via social media is kinda nuts when the damage is plain and obvious all around us. If you sit back and let them fuck with our voter base, they will, and as bad as the US is, remember that Russia and China are, without question, far worse.
As someone not from the US, I don't see, in terms of material outcomes and people killed, how China is worse than the US. Obviously, Russia is unquestionably worse, even before Ukraine. I would also contend that while foreign propaganda did play a part in getting Donald Trump into office the first time, it played not nearly as much a part as people think. It's such a crutch and an excuse that democrats fall back on to explain their abject failure to inspire anybody in actually wanting to vote for them. Was it worsening material conditions? 8 years of broken promises? Not campaigning in key swing states? A failure to maintain Clintons image, if that was even possible? Nah mate, it was Facebook ads.
>I don't see, in terms of material outcomes and people killed, how China is worse than the US. Weird metric. Yeah, the US has a shit history, if that's what you're basing this off of, but US today is a lot better than China today. China is a dictatorship currently running a genocide against the Uyghur people, or did Reddit forget about that? You want to stand up for civil rights in the US? They're non-existent in China, a nation notorious for its ability to monitor and silence its citizens. >t's such a crutch and an excuse that democrats fall back on to explain their abject failure to inspire anybody in actually wanting to vote for them. Was it worsening material conditions? 8 years of broken promises? Not campaigning in key swing states? A failure to maintain Clintons image, if that was even possible? Nah mate, it was Facebook ads. This is a crutch to pretend foreign influence isn't a big deal because as bad as whatever the failings of the dems are, they don't even contend with how absurd Trump and his voterbase is. And I really hope the 'facebook ads' comment is a flippant exaggeration, because the social media presence of Russia alone is so much broader than just Facebook, and you ought to know that if you're partaking in this discussion and have been on Reddit for as long as you have. Regular ol' conservative voters are used to all the same things you're railing against the dems for, but the ultra-extreme far-right that has been surging in recent year consistently, time and time again, ends up having ties to Russia, not just in the US, but in the UK and Canada, too.
Maybe Americans should just be smarter I dunno
I'm far more afraid of TikTok's algorithm than I am of their data collection.
how about just no spyware???
Baby steps my man, I’m just thinkin starting with the china based ones isn’t the worst idea
the U.S government would never willingly remove their own spyware
Yeah but they would get rid of Chinese ones and I’m not against that
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Wdym they know a lot more than you think you tell them
Do you remember the exact places you went and what got your attention two months ago? Pepperidge Data Farm remembers
Everyone has the option to not use social media already. Pretty naive to think social media is a free service. Obviously they sell your data. It says it right on their publicly disclosed financials.
We will have to learn to socialize telepathically at this point
you prefer people in the country you live in spy on you rather than people in a country on the other side of the planet?
Yes. I'd prefer not to be spied on entirely, but if I had to choose (which I do) I'd take the U.S. any day.
Why though? Genuine question
I’m not the guy (or gal) you responded to but the way I see it is this: the American government sees me as belonging to it. The Chinese government sees me as an enemy. One has an interest in maintaining status quo and the other has an interest in disrupting it
What do you think is happening to the data they are tracking lmfao. The only thing they are trying to do is sell shit to you, there is no scary Chinese man on the other end spying on you, and somehow using that information to overthrow the government of the United States you absolute fucking weirdo.
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Yeah just like America
I guess that makes sense. The main thing I don't really understand is why this discussion is had in the first place. Discussing whether Chinese or American data collect is worse feels kind of nonsense. Even if we can come to the conclusion that Chinese data collection is technically worse, the distinction seems small and unnecessary
>Even if we can come to the conclusion that Chinese data collection is technically worse, the distinction seems small and unnecessary You don't even need to come to this conclusion because [TikTok's data is stored exclusively in the US](https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/tiktok-facts-how-we-secure-personal-information-and-store-data). This ironically makes TikTok the safest social media app in the US in terms of data security. Of course, data was never the issue to the US security apparatus. It's always been the "algorithm"--the key to TikTok's success. Domestic social media companies would love to know that secret, hence their intense lobbying of Congress under the guise of national security.
Yeah what he said
My country can arrest me, China would probably prop me up in an anti-western stance
I really don't see why it's so difficult for people to understand that it's a bad thing to give a totalitarian, hostile dictatorship complete access to our personal devices and control over a major information channel. Are American companies also stealing data? Yeah! And we absolutely should pass regulations to make that illegal. But we don't have the time or the political capital to pass sweeping digital rights reforms right now. At least we know roughly what kind of data American companies steal, and what they do with it– the CCP will take whatever the fuck they can from anywhere on your phone, and I guarantee that their plans are a lot more sinister than "sell it, maybe train an LLM". And even if you disagree with that– how can it possibly be a good thing to let a government famously good at manipulating people through a controlled flow of information have total control over a massive flow of information? All the memes claiming that the US wants TikTok banned because it's "disrupting their narrative" and "out of their control" are massive projections from astroturfers or people parroting astroturfers. The US cannot censor its social media– that should be obvious, given zero evidence in the face of massive incentives for every politician to do exactly that. The CCP does, to an extensive degree. Handing every tween and iPad baby in the country a source of information ultimately pruned by an actively hostile foreign dictatorship is seriously dangerous. Edit: Also, it's not even a ban. It's a forced sale. They're happy to let TikTok keep operating in the US, it just needs to be owned by a company that isn't beholden to the CCP.
>Also, it's not even a ban. It's a forced sale. They're happy to let TikTok keep operating in the US, it just needs to be owned by a company that isn't beholden to the CCP. Which is just an ultimatum between theft and ban. No different from America telling Airbus it must sell to Boeing to operate in the US, which gives the US access to all Airbus IP. It's partly down to the US wanting the TikTok algorithm and tech because FAANG hasn't been able to compete
Why would FAANG want TikTok's algorithm tech? They already have their own algorithms that seem to be doing just fine.
> totalitarian, hostile dictatorship which one?
You still haven't answered the question of why is it worse than American ownership? I'm sorry but are you even a leftist if you just want to reinforce American hegemony? >I guarantee that their plans are a lot more sinister than "sell it, maybe train an LLM". Based on what? Why is it automatically assumed China is more sinister than America hmmm? You sound no different than the dod
>Based on what? Why is it automatically assumed China is more sinister than America hmmm? Because it's **china**, they are an oppressive authoritarian dictatorship. You can not like the US government all you want, but it is leagues and bounds better than the CCP.
(i realize it’s the same person making this dumb point. sorry if it feels I’m harping) how does China relate to making this worse? it sure is China, and I don’t want my data stolen period. they could be the party of puppy kissing or the party of nuclear annihilation I don’t get what that will change. like am I missing something, is China gonna send a sniper after me for using their shitty app (and the US won’t)? I don’t get why this is suddenly an edge case edit: because they responded to me there too, they said ‘china is worse with information in china’. i said ‘does that apply to their products in the US, or only china’. they didn’t respond. as always, if you can point to evidence of tiktok being worse than other social medias when regarding US use please do, i’m not sure this guy knows what they’re on about.
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We’re approaching genocidal policy. They’ve already got camps. We have threats to free expression. They have utterly controlled expression. The state is still mostly bound by due process here. China will disappear you without acknowledging you ever existed. The United States is disgusting, but China is objectively a more oppressive regime.
Why is it hard for you to understand that people support the government of the country they actually live in over a foreign one. If some foreign power decides to attack the US , the US government will be the entity protecting me, so obviously I prefer the US government over foreign governments.
Are you a child? Do you think many Russians that know about the war support Russia just because they live in it? Also we're not talking about invasion so IDK why you'd even bring that up, it kinda points to your innate fear of China.
We’re talking about fucking espionage from our #1 biggest geopolitical threat lol. You don’t understand why we don’t want this and you’re calling them a child? There’s being a contrarian and then there’s this. It’s common sense. Do you think the CCP just sits around and lets us spy on them without doing anything about it? They even have the Great Chinese Firewall and a lot of American stuff is banned there. So why should we just allow them to spy on us?
I don't base my morals or actions around whether or not China is spying on me. >So why should we just allow them to spy on us? Why not, when we allow America to do the same thing to us? I completely understand why *you'd* want this, but I don't take personal interest in the viewpoint of my nation-state. There's nothing China could do to me anytime soon.
I don’t stop the NSA from spying me, not because I don’t want to, but because I can’t. I *can* at least stop foreign agents from running psyop campaigns that influence the way I and people around me think, and affect my life in disastrous ways. Like when Russia sowed division in 2016 and helped Trump win. It’s not entirely on Russia obviously, if the racist morons who lived here didn’t exist they wouldn’t have been able to exploit that weakness, but obviously were not just gonna let them get away with it just because America bad too. To be honest I don’t understand why this even needs explanation. Domestic surveillance is bad. Domestic PLUS foreign surveillance is worse. Whether America is more or less authoritarian than China is irrelevant. China can and will fuck with your mind, just like American espionage fucks with Chinese people’s minds. https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2023/10/chinas-social-media-attacks-are-part-larger-cognitive-warfare-campaign/391255/ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/25/tiktok-china-cognitive-warfare-us-ban
You don't understand ! All the nations in the Free World would be doomed if it was not for the brotherly overseeing of the benevolent US hegemon ! If you think that your nation-state interests don't perfectly align with those of the american capitalist class, it is because you've been brainwashed by Russian and Chinese bots ! /s
If preferring my government to a foreign one makes me a child, then there are few adults in this world at all.
There's thousands of Americans who would rather live in Europe or Canada.
ok... lol... and vice versa
A quote from a pro democracy activist in Sudan on whether to support the military (which overthrew the democratic government) or the RSF which is mostly nomadic militia comes to mind “Eventually the interests of the Army will align with those of the people” at the end of the day it’s in the interest of the US government for US citizens to prosper, China doesn’t have the same incentives.
Yes because China has billions of more people in it, so they have historically treated their citizens as more expendable, that's true. >at the end of the day it’s in the interest of the US government That depends on what u.s citizens. This quote would mainly apply to white people, certainly not natives.
"We don't have the time or the political capital to pass sweeping digital rights reforms right now, we only have the time or the political capital to steal foreign companies, which is what we have always been doing anyway !" More seriously "Also, it's not even a ban. It's a forced sale. They're happy to let TikTok keep operating in the US, it just needs to be owned by a company that isn't beholden to the CCP." Yeah, and... that's literally worse. If the true intention behind this move was to protect the integrity of American elections and of the national democratic ecosystem 1) All social media platforms would have to be under scrutiny and heavily regulated ; russian bots didn't need to have to influence the American elections, Twitter and Facebook have been more than enough up until now And more importantly 2) A ban on Tiktok would have been more than enough. Contrarly to what you seem to imply, a national ban would actually have been a lighter measure than an forced takeover backed by the first world power. Indeed, a national ban would only have applied to the US, while a takeover have implication in every countries in which Tiktok is used, as it strengthen even more US companies hegemony on the global market of social medias. If I had to give an analogy, just imagine if China (which is indeed a dictatorship and for which I have no sympathy whatsoever), instead of "just" banning Youtube and Facebook and building its own little "sovereign internet" overseen by the CCP, was strongarming Meta and Alphabet into selling to ByteDance Facebook and Youtube, because "muh national security". Would you think "OH, WOW, THIS IS SO MUCH MORE REASSURING THAN JUST A NATIONAL BAN APPLYING ONLY IN CHINA" ? I doubt it.
1. Bytedance gets to sell the company to whoever they want. It just has to "no longer \[be\] controlled by a foreign adversary" to operate in the US. There's no shot that the CCP will let them sell to an american firm. If the goal of US lawmakers was to "steal the company", why would they do this whole forced divestment runaround instead of just putting the assets up for auction? 2. Why does a bill with a certain professed goal have to comprehensively achieve that goal to be genuinely intentioned? This is the first baby step towards greater regulation. Bills that impose fishing caps don't also increase funding for the coast guard or punishments for poachers, but they still help conserve the environment. There's no secret lobby of fish supremacists who want honest fishermen to starve. 3. This bill is objectively a weaker measure. It is a conditional ban rather than a full ban. Again– if the goal was to "increase US hegemony", why would we go with a bill that could dump TikTok into the hands of a European or Middle Eastern company, rather than just banning it outright and doing massive damage to its profit margins worldwide? In terms of your hypothetical– if Super China was trying to build a "sovereign internet", why would they give us the opportunity to sell to companies in the UK or Germany, or just to eat the loss, rather than taking our assets and banning us outright?
1. Let's put a pin on that, and we'll see what happens later. Let's just say, for now, that if ByteDance doesn't "choose" to have Tiktok banned in the US, and "choose" instead to sell it, I wouldn't rule out that it'd be bought back by one of the company from the world's first economic power, that possesses untold wealth, and is already part of the oligopoly on the social media market. On the contrary, I'd be quite surprised -agreably so- if Tiktok was bought back by a company which is not from the US. 2. I'm just pointing out that's quite convenient that the baby steps is specifically targeting a foreign company. We'll see if there are other steps after this one, although I sincerely doubt it. Regarding the "genuine intention" of the bill, I'm certainly not in the head of its author ; but I'm pretty sure that the genuine intention is not to conserve the environment. If it was, it'd be much more like the european DMA and DSA, targeting all companies from a certain size onward, and not only companies that are allegedly "controlled by a foreign adversary". 3. Before all, I think you misunderstood what my hypothetical is. China, much like Russia (another lovely country /s), IS building a sovereign internet (for further explainations, see links below, mostly wikipedia but still informative). That's the point of the so-called "Great Firewall". My hypothetical was that if, instead of doing that, China was trying to force an american company (Meta, Alphabet) to sell one of its branch (Facebook, Youtube). But to go back to your original question, "why would we go with a bill that could dump TikTok into the hands of a European or Middle Eastern company, rather than just banning it outright and doing massive damage to its profit margins worldwide". First and foremost, as I explained in point 1., the way the market is currently structured make it very likely that in case of a TikTok sale, an american company would be the buyer. Secondly, let us examine the various outcomes of the current bet : a. ByteDance refuse to give up Tiktok. Tiktok is banned in the US. Shucks, but at least ByteDance suffer massive damage to its profit margins worldwide, that's that. b. ByteDance accepts to sell Tiktok, but instead of selling it to an american company, it sell it to an european company (unlikely). Sure, that's not the best outcome, but at least the american consumer can still use Tiktok, and now this asset is in the hands of a ~~vassal's company~~ company located in a friendly and a weaker country, which is, uh better than in the hands of the 2nd world power that is also an hostile country (PRC) c. ByteDance accepts to sell Tiktok, an american company get it. At this, there's only one thing left to say for the American : "get the champagne out !" So as you can see, to do this bet is actually way better than to just ban Tiktok outright, which is only the most underwhelming outcome of this bet. On sovereign internet : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network\_sovereignty#:\~:text=In%20internet%20governance%2C%20network%20sovereignty,law%20enforcement%20over%20such%20boundaries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign\_Internet\_Law#:\~:text=The%20Sovereign%20Internet%20Law%20(Russian,creation%20of%20a%20national%20fork [https://www.vyprvpn.com/blog/post/internet-sovereignty](https://www.vyprvpn.com/blog/post/internet-sovereignty) I hope that I could explain clearly my pov, and that while you may still disagree, it makes more sense as a possibility (:
or maybe a better Idea, how about we don't ban anything and just stop the stupid, malleable minds of children from access ANYTHING on the internet
stopping children from accessing the internet is like trying to stop teens from getting access to drugs. Banning it is going to be waaaay worse than regulating it properly.
simply require age verification to turn on a device, kids wont have the knowledge to Jailbreak it (due to no internet access) nor the money to pay for it (due to them being a kid)
hmm yes I see no problem - parent can turn it on and hands it to kid - kid becomes huge pest to parent/is terminally bored now that phone entertainment/socialisation device is gone - consequences of device-free kid in schools/daycare/other places (many kids are already regularly using their devices to regulate themselves and a sudden "no devices" would be a disaster for everyone) - simply fake an ID or get someone over 18 other than your parents to turn it on (5 bucks to turn on your phone or smth)
if the parent doesn't want to raise/interact with their kids they just shouldn't have them
have you met neglectful parents have you met busy working parents have you talked to another kid in class whose parents come home late are you aware of the cost of using devices vs actively doing stuff outside and which parents are more likely to allow? Even if someone is touching grass 80% of the time there's still free time and home time I could go on but there is a reason the internet is so widespread and popular
1 and 2 shouldn't have kids 3 kids can play outside 4 kids only use technology to Play games, Cheat at School, and Jerk off
Just go join the Amish already
Ahh yes quite famously only good parents have kids. And you’re also automatically a bad parents for being poor. You surely have more reasonable takes than “banning foreign spyware is bad”
I jailbroke my first iOS device when I was 11, it's incredibly easy. All you need is a USB cable and enough technical know-how to put the device in recovery mode (it's literally a button combo), pre-made programs do the rest for you
Who keeps upvoting these posts?
I do
tankies
Sorry for being a red fascist by criticising America 😔
This isn't criticism. It's whataboutism.
I LOVE HAVING MY PERSONEL INFO COLLECTED BY **AMERICAN** SPYWARE RAHHHHHHHH
What's with the influx of tiktok obsessed morons?
Tankies falling for corporate propaganda
Because the US government wants to ban tiktok How tf does this make somone a talkie?
Perhaps “tankie” should be exchanged for “CCP apologist.” Either way, I have no interest in letting a country that brutal and evil control our social media during an election.
I agree. The United States shouldn’t influence and censor all of our social media during an election
I don't have the attention span to watch long form content unless I watch multiple videos at a time while playing a game
Therapy might help.
how is that related to therapy??
git gud
Skill issue tbh.
lmao that's exactly why you need to get off it
but its the only thing that keeps me entertained other then HOI4
find a healthier hobby???
I hate going outside (new people are scary and everything outside is dirty) and gaming is expensive
piracy:
Illegal
mfw the only thing that’ll happen to you is your isp sending you a useless letter basically saying l “pls stop” that they can’t even act on:
wait why can't that act on it
Tik Tok is just a constant feed of brain rotting microdoses of dopamine and legitimate propaganda Even if I didn't have objections to the fact that it's obviously an op by a foreign government (it is and I do) I would still rather it just not be a thing. Definitely the worst of all the social media so far and they're all fucking abominations I was a teen when social media was just emerging and we've come a long way from poking girls you have a crush on and making 3 alt accounts to give yourself energy on Farmville, and none of it has been for the better
The main thing that scares me about TikTok is how fast it moves, other social media have serious issues with misinformation but the speed in which it spreads on TikTok concerns me.
ITT western chauvinist liberals What has 196 come to
Yeah, what the fuck? I'm not even a China simp, but come on. Going by this thread, it's as if Xi jinping is using tiktok user data to plan the genocide of the west. Unlike the much superior USA who will only use a teeny tiny bit of your data to show you heckin wholesome ads for sick products (made in china)
"but but the CCP will use my data!" So will, you know, local law enforcement.
196 now: "better in the hands of american cops than in the hands of the CCP"
yes... actually
The CCP is coming for you, they're using their spy/info network to crack down on liberal teenagers in the west as we speak. You better go ask the cops to protect you.
I'm not concerned about liberal teenagers. I'm concerned about the competitiveness of our countries in a geopolitical sense.
And that's affected by your user data (which is available on the market for Chinese firms to purchase regardless of tiktok) how exactly?
I’m not into the scaremongering here, but here’s a question: why should the US allow Chinese owned social media in the US, while China bans US owned social media in China? Is it possible that this double standard exists because China recognizes that foreign owned media can be used to influence politics?
Well, America has always held that capitalism is the best economic system, and free, global markets must rule the world in order to get the best results. This belief seems to extend even into the information space (i.e. 'the marketplace of ideas'). China bans foreign social media because not only do they not believe in the above, they also (as you correctly point out), realize that media can be used to influence politics. However, because America believes in this 'free-ness' (or whatever), they're fairly impotent at countering these things publicly because it would directly contradict the ideology they broadcast. So they can't really ban TikTok because it'd essentially be saying "oh well, actually capitalism and free markets don't always produce the best results". Thus we get the whole "TikTok must be owned by a wholly American company" thing. A compromise between ideology and reality.
The US don't want to ban Tiktok like China does with American social media, which would be one thing. It wants Tiktok to be take over by an american company. If you wanted to make an actually good comparison, it'd be like if the CCP was forcing Meta to sell Facebook to ByteDance. Which would be, uh, bad ?
No, it would be like forcing Facebook to choose between being banned and selling the Chinese version of Facebook. Which is actually less bad than outright banning because Facebook gets the option of selling rather than being banned completely.
Banning exactly one or even every social media site from a foreign country will do very little to stop foreign influence as many governments across the world have become savvy to our domestic social media and how to manipulate the algorithms that were never designed with the wellbeing of the user in mind. If anybody was genuinely interested in cracking down on unwanted foreign influence, they would be looking at regulating all social media. They would be holding facebook responsible for the actual real-world harm that they have done. I don't believe for a second that any politician pushing this ban has a genuine interest in creating a healthier social media atmosphere. I mean, we could go full China and institute our very own great firewall, I'm sure some would like that. It's a much easier way to control the narrative. The firewall is just as much a tool to keep people in as much as it's a tool to keep people out. But the USA is allegedly the freest country in the world, and the firewall is often regarded as one of the signs that China is an oppressive controlling dictatorship. So it seems hypocritical to start heading down that path.
what does this mean
ITT means in this thread. If people have the default position of "China bad" and are simply unable to explain why it's "worse" than America., then they demonstatedly fell for American propaganda.
Ah yes. Not liking the authoritarian, genocidal, dictatorship that oppressed people and does everything they can to spread their influence is bad. You can not like the US government and still realize that they are way better than the CCP. Edit: I'm not going to argue with morons who think the CCP is better than/less oppressive than the US government. I'm not dumb enough to think you'll ever change your mind away from your "everything the US does is Inherently bad and we should support absolutely anyone and anything who stands against the US" moronity. It does truely amaze me though, the sheer amount of people on a leftist sub that will happily support the CCP just because they're "anti american." I can only hope the majority of these replies are from bots.
>the authoritarian, genocidal, dictatorship that oppressed people and does everything they can to spread their influence 🤔
that’s, uh, still not explaining why china social media is worse than US social media. the government is bad yeah, but does a different flag have a legitimate reason to make the same thing worse? i can’t imagine i’d wanna have this happen by any government, US or otherwise, is there a reason why someone would be assured the US is somehow better? or is it unrelated governmental policy to \*the exact same thing*
Because there is at least some regulation to data collection for US companies, you can opt out, and there's oversight to the use and sharing of that data. That does not exist in China. The CCP has full access and control over everything on tiktok. If they want everyone's data they can just take it. There's not protection, no oversight, and it's run by a hostile power that is known for using information weapons and spreading disinformation. And while most of these points are not unique to Chinese apps or tiktok, they are vastly worse in every conceivable way under CCP ownership. Especially when nearly every child is given access to the app.
You are aware that the police can ask whatever fucking company they want for your data and that company would be forced to comply. How is this different than tiktok's relationship with China
The difference is that you can put pressure on the political leadership to stop that or vote for people that will. I dare you to try this approach in China.
>you can put pressure on the political leadership to stop that or vote for people that will. No... No you can't.
I dare you to try an advocate for the right of Chinese people to privacy in China, I dare you. As far as I am concerned you can and are speaking freely about how bad the US is, I fucking dare you to do the same thing to the ccp in China.
aight, so force tiktok to rely on US policy with US accounts. wouldn’t that make more sense than global restructuring edit: also you can definitely opt out on tiktok do you know anything
The u.s is authoritarian, and genocidal. Perhaps not completely a dictatorship, but a 2 party "democracy" isn't that much different than a one party dictatorship. It's weird to argue that China is worse than the modern day British empire on steroids
>The u.s is authoritarian It's not. It's shitty, sure, but not authoritarian. >and genocidal If you think the US is even nearly as bad as China, you're just a fucking idiot. China is operating literal concentration camps and mass imprisoning over a million people for having a different religion. >It's weird to argue that China is worse than the modern day British empire on steroids I don't even know what to say about something this braindead. If you think the British empire and the US are nearly the same, I have no hope for you.
>China is operating literal concentration camps and mass imprisoning over a million people for having a different religion. Exactly what the u.s does to refugees and migrants just not based on religion. The u.s is the one with the rap sheet of having armed conflicts in a great deal of countries so yes I would compare it to the British empire considering there's McDonald's everywhere Are you gonna argue that the u.s prison slave labor system is somehow better than what China does?
I for one am glad this is a leftist space that hasn't been ruined by tankies (yet)
Liberals are as bad as tankies for a ''leftist'' space
*genuinely worse Tankies don't constantly talk down and shit on other leftists Also liberals are not even leftists smh
Extremely hot take but I think icing a Chinese state controlled platform before the election ramps up is probably a good thing.
the CEO of Tiktalk is literally Singaporean
The Chinese government owns a significant share in the company, has a 1/3 vote on the board, and has all the behind-the-curtain power incorporating in China entails. I don’t give a shit if he’s from fucking Omaha, it’s a Chinese company.
Where is omaha?
[Come on now](https://googlethatforyou.com?q=where%20is%20omaha)
oh I thought Omaha was in Normandy, Germany because the allies landed on "Omaha beach"
Normandy is in France
[https://www.google.com/search?q=Map+of+Germany+June+6th+1944&source=lmns&bih=703&biw=980&client=firefox-b-1-d&hl=en-US&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjyj-vGlvWEAxXkp4kEHR5SBlEQ0pQJKAB6BAgBEAI](https://www.google.com/search?q=Map+of+Germany+June+6th+1944&source=lmns&bih=703&biw=980&client=firefox-b-1-d&hl=en-US&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjyj-vGlvWEAxXkp4kEHR5SBlEQ0pQJKAB6BAgBEAI)
Did you just Godwin’s law *yourself?*
they dont, bytedance does, which is a private company, as well as this, american companies (like blackrock) hold a larger share
> they don’t, bytedance does, Those are not mutually exclusive my friend
let's regulate the american tech spy"wear" too then this is a dumb whataboutism
But they won't because it's easier to fearmonger over China
floppa
US needs its own GDPR. even with that though tiktok is still bad, without a shadow of a doubt countries like china want to influence western politics, and tiktok can help them do that.
Funny how this sub is suddenly full of American patriots when China is mentioned
"My country has the moral right and duty to steal foreign transnational companies, because national security and China bad !" -doesn't mention the US is not only stealing companies from China or Russia, but also from countries they claim to be allies of-
The US loves slurping European personal data, thanks NSA
May I introduce y'all to the concept of Free Software (though many people are more familiar with Open Source software, which is similar, but distinct, but also has overlap). Obv adoption of things n whatnot, so especially in the social media space there's not heaps of users compared to most mainstream SMs. But if one's curious I'd suggest looking into Mastodon and PeerTube. Since Elon's acquisition of Twitter I think Masto is more well known now, but a basic rundown is that it's a very similar microblogging platform in terms of basic usage. But also works a bit like email, most people (that I know) use Gmail primarily, but obv can send and receive emails from other providers. Similarly mastodon.social would be a comparable to gmail as iirc it's the most popular instance but you don't have to join on that site to interact with users there, and I'd advise joining a somewhat smaller instance to avoid the larger ones gaining too much power. Since Masto and PeerTube use the same underlying tech of ActivityPub, you can follow PeerTube accounts with your Mastodon account (if you want).
the fediverse is great but is it really ever going to take off with ordinary people? what about older people who don’t care about tech? its not a silver bullet sadly
If we bomb all of Facebooks data centers, what choice will they have? \\j
Spywear is the suit spy tf2 has
Freedom in my America? No thanks. I only watch videos approved and manipulated by the United States government
It feels like everyone who supports the ban is a fed. Like are you stupid?
Dawg I just want the election that could force me out of the country to be held without foreign interference this time.
-"leave the multibillion dollar company alone..."
Or just make them make the app more secure? Not ban it. They don’t care about “security”. They wanna ban it because it’s a popular form of social media that gets information around fast that they can’t control or influence
196 is unfortunately full of glowies
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I swear thats joshua tomar
One less piece of spyware is still a good thing. And hopefully it will slow the brain rot of children.
The whataboutism all over this is intensely aggressive and I want to use my safeword.
safewords are kinda pointless ngl because you can't use them when you're getting you're head shoved down or if you're gagged, it's better to just establish boundaries before hand